WEBVTT

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 So Dr. Peat, what do you think made cultures...

00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:09.360
 Okay, and we're live.

00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:10.360
 Hello, everybody.

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 Welcome.

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 We have Georgie and Mr. Raymond Peat on the line, and we are talking about Aristotle.

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 We were talking about forms matter, deep politics.

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 And so I'm not going to interrupt what we were talking about, but Georgie, go ahead.

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 Yeah, I was curious what Dr. Peat thinks made that specific parts of the world amenable

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 to such contradictory ideas, basically.

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 I mean, is it something in the way people saw the world in those different parts?

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 I mean, the way people saw reality in those different parts of the world?

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 Why would the Eastern Europe or like Eastern world be so amenable to change and so accepting

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 of change, while the Western world would be like, "Nope, we're firmly controlled.

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 That's the only theory that we accept is true."

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 Change must be happening everywhere.

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 Why would it take root in certain parts of the world and not others?

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 In the '50s, I was considering the Whorfian hypothesis that language, the structure of

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 language has evolved in remote history, that the structure of language contributes to that.

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 But I fairly quickly realized that cultural things such as the difference between Aristotle

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 and Plato in the available literature, when people were just barely starting to get literate.

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 The church was a force for literacy, and it happened that the Eastern Christian church

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 got the good Aristotle literature, and the West was influenced by Platonism.

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 So I still tend to think that there are slight differences from the structure of language.

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 There's a linguist at Stanford who is the contemporary Whorfian apologist.

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 I think that can be seen in the difference between English and German, for example, and

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 between, say, Chinese and Hindi.

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 Chinese has, through use, reduced the superstructure of grammatical form and depends greatly on

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 context.

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 I think that there's a noticeable difference between English and the older European languages

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 with more context dependence in English grammar.

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 Are you familiar with the ideas of the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein?

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 Oh yeah.

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 The thing I liked about him was that he numbered his paragraphs instead of trying to make a

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 grand argument that progressed logically.

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 He simply made statements and numbered them because he believed that every statement implies

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 a metaphysical surrounding.

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 I had been studying Bertrand Russell and the linguistic philosophers who I saw as being

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 a way—not Russell, but the people who followed him and called themselves the language philosophers,

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 like John Wisdom.

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 I saw them as trying to sneak in the old Platonism entities, logical atomism, for example, which

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 was Russell's word for it.

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 Wittgenstein blew that up and showed somewhat a resonance with the old Leibniz, a universe

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 being implied in every statement or every event implying the surrounding context.

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 The thing that made the most impression on me is that he said there's no such thing

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 as private language.

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 There are no private thoughts that can all be expressed and there are no private fields,

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 as you said in many of your interviews.

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 Yeah, but when you try to work out the implications of "there is no private language," you're

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 always guessing statistically that you're understanding the other person.

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 If you can't remember for sure, your own language is consistent and testable.

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 When you look at the other person, you're just making a statistically sounder guess,

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 but there's no essential difference between shared language and the private language once

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 you realize that they all depend on memory and interpretation.

00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:02.680
 Okay.

00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:04.320
 Wow, that's pretty interesting.

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 That leads me to the next question.

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 You had a discussion with Daniel about Lenin, memory, and matter.

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 You said, "Well, Lenin said that knowledge is memory and it's coming from matter, but

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 it's not matter, right?

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 Matter is everything we don't know.

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 So what is knowledge then?

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 I mean, if it's not matter, what is knowledge?"

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 It's the physiological presence of matter and the info is the matter itself that hasn't

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 been incorporated into our perspective.

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 Okay.

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 So would you say that knowledge is simply the structure of matter that we incorporate

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 into ourselves?

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 Yeah.

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 It's living matter and it's always open to living a new phase and that openness to new

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 life is matter.

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 Okay.

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 Info is all we can say about matter.

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 Understood.

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 It's not denying the materiality.

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 It's saying that this is the living matter that is our consciousness and that's like

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 an internal fountain in effect.

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 It's always going on, going ahead, becoming something else.

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 And that's the nature of matter, that it's creating this constant flow of knowledge.

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 Okay.

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 So in another interview, I think again with Danny, you basically said that nothing is

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 stored, right?

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 Basically how we feel about our memories and knowledge in general depends largely on thyroid

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 function and metabolism in general.

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 So if knowledge isn't stored, I mean, where is it?

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 Like when we access a memory, so to speak, what does that process physiologically look

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 like?

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 It's some trace in our facial muscles, viscera, posture.

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 We work through a series of reinventions, finding these pictures, which are arrangements

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 of excitations.

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 We don't go straight to a picture, we work by inference and traces to reconstruct it.

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 And so every time we bring up the past, we're creating a new past.

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 Okay.

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 So basically, so when we're remembering, we're partially recreating the memory.

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 Yeah.

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 It's always newly experienced.

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 The idea that something is stored becomes part of that Platonist idea that it ends up

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 saying that atoms are timeless entities and can be accurately described only by changeless

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 units of logic.

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 You can't let change into the system if you're in that logical atomism range all the way

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 to Platonism.

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 Platonism is denying that an individual atom has a history, for example.

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 The memory as reconstruction is that we're like a whirlwind of consciousness, but the

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 shape of our individual whirlwind is always ongoing, but is moving ahead with some degree

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 of deduction from our previous states.

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 And looking back, it's like a reverse deduction to reconstruct that we must have experienced

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 that being where we are.

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 And probably one of those same conversations we were talking about, I was asking you some

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 philosophical questions and you said something like you have to start and end with being

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 an animal.

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 And I think you said something like an animal reality.

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 Can you talk about that a little bit, because I found that to be pretty interesting.

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 Yeah, where an animal experiencing nature around it or people is aware of its needs

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 and hopes and also any fears that it has.

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 It interprets particular objects or processes as either hopeful or fearsome, and otherwise

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 it's in the process of going through the present situation with the intention of finding

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 the realization of what it wants.

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 And people have, the culture has piled up belief and stories that complicate that so

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 that we don't see ourselves as surrounded by future and dangers, future possibilities

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 and threats.

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 And I think anytime you're going to get back on the track of realizing yourself, the larger

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 intention, the thing that religious people feel as some kind of overarching meaning for

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 the animal, the human, hopefully biologically amplified animal doing things that some animals

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 can't do.

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 By our energy amplification, we can have the animal intentionality encompassing future

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 possibilities on a transpersonal scale, seeing the need for the ecosystem and for the society,

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 for other individuals, even for different kinds of organisms, taking responsibility

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 in a straight line with yourself, feeling that you're responsible for all of the stuff

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 around you, that you see it all as hopeful moving towards the future and don't have

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 any of these cultural kinks that say, "I own this," or "I have to destroy this

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 to do this," and so on.

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 You try to picture overarching series of meanings so that everything can get into a better future.

00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:25.160
 Are you saying, sorry, are you saying that amplified rate of metabolism coexists with

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 a sense of solidarity with other humans or the Kropotkin mutual aid, assuming your basic

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 needs are met?

00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:33.160
 Yeah.

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 I see Kropotkin blending in with Vernadsky, Vernadsky saying that the flow of energy from

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 the sun into the earth is trying, the substance responding to that flow of energy is creating

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 a living structural system that is assimilating and accumulating the interactions of the different

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 levels of the ecosystem, permitting the optimizing the metabolism of the big animal developing

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 a big brain and doing the things that are appropriate, like animals tearing through

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 the jungle are improving the fertility of the system, not damaging it.

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 Like Alan Savory, his rough idea is compatible with Vernadsky, that the big animals are a

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 big part of the ecosystems that they develop in and they are pulling, helping to pull the

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 whole ecosystem forward.

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 Because there's such massive energy dissipating structures?

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 Yeah.

00:12:43.520 --> 00:12:44.520
 Okay.

00:12:44.520 --> 00:12:49.440
 So, on the being an animal in this world, are you referring to basically Pavlov's ideas

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 of the first and second signal system?

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 The first one being, first signal system being basically the animal raw perception of reality?

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 Yeah, I don't see it as being strictly second.

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 The first signal system, P.K.

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 Anokhin, who was a colleague younger than Pavlov, developed the picture of the consciousness

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 in this unified sense.

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 He called it the acceptor of action, which you can't really separate the orienting reflex

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 or the dominant concept from the acceptor of action.

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 It's the present state of the organism in pictorial space-filling model of the world.

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 The second signal system, in Pavlov's term, gets its structure by acting as names for

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 structures in this acceptor of action, like you have a little three-dimensional holographic

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 movie going on with your intentions cycling through this movie model of the world.

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 The words, the second signal system, attaches to each part of the model of the world, has

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 a naming relationship.

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 Marx or Engels referred to it as a name of a ghost.

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 The second signal system gets its structure exclusively from this pictorial model of the

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 world, the acceptor of action.

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 To me, the way I understood your book, at least, was that intuition was part of the

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 first signal system, and then this capacity for rigid, analytical, abstract thought felt

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 like it didn't even need images.

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 That was part of the second signal system.

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 And then the authoritarian mind and people with authoritarian tendencies tend to really

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 emphasize the second signal system, in other words, purely abstract thought without any

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 connection to reality, to the first signal system.

00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:10.560
 Yeah, I did.

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 When I was studying psychology at the university, I did a survey asking people how they dreamed,

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 as well as their waking thought processes.

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 And I found that there were people who didn't know what it was to dream in pictures.

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 They said a dream was like listening to someone tell a story.

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 And those people were on a scale of creativity.

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 They would be absolute zero.

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 They followed verbal rules.

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 Somehow they could talk to people and seem to communicate in English.

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 They had no ability to think with any innovation.

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 It was only what could be said in a familiar way.

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 And when your acceptor of action is de-energized, it tends to disappear, leaving just these

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 solidified units of language.

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 You can't learn a language without having some fluidity in this model of the world.

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 But by the age of six or seven, people are often losing enough biological energy that

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 they start seeing reality in terms of only the cliches that they can say.

00:16:35.280 --> 00:16:40.680
 This might be semi off the topic, but where does personal responsibility, but also the

00:16:40.680 --> 00:16:46.160
 destruction of the individual from the culture, where does personal responsibility begin where

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 a person is born into a culture that basically sets them up for total failure?

00:16:51.640 --> 00:16:55.800
 We're going to talk about vaccines, but when I went home to Southern California, probably

00:16:55.800 --> 00:17:00.120
 a few years ago, my mom gave me a sheet of all the vaccines I got when I was a little

00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.640
 kid and it was like a ridiculous, I don't remember, it was like 20.

00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:05.520
 I know that's even worse now.

00:17:05.520 --> 00:17:10.480
 It just seems like, and I know you talked about with, what was his name, Guillermo,

00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:17.000
 but how the universe is expanding and growing, but our society is kind of declining at the

00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:18.000
 same time.

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.000
 Yeah, you can see biological decline.

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 I looked at the birth weight of different nations and the head size, and for much of

00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:34.960
 the 19th and 20th century, birth weights and brain sizes were increasing steadily.

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 In 1980, several countries had an actual shrinkage of brain size or a growth in height with no

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 growth in brain from decade to decade.

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 So the cultural imposition really is literally shrinking people's brains now.

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 I just read a few days ago, like Generation Z has a pretty high suicide rate and doesn't

00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:02.400
 look good.

00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.520
 75% of them are actually, apparently have mental illness.

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 They meet the diagnostic criteria, as fake as it is, for at least one mental illness,

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 according to the American Psychiatric Association.

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 This is like the youngest generation that's just entering, not the workforce, but they're

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 in high school now.

00:18:18.320 --> 00:18:23.760
 I think that kind of information has to get through to the people who own and run the

00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:27.000
 world that their machine is breaking down.

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:33.080
 If they really take their ownership seriously, that they want to keep their wealth, they'd

00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:38.960
 better start repairing the mechanism because the components are deteriorating too fast.

00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:44.880
 Are there any grassroots kind of movements that you think have potential for really changing

00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:45.880
 things?

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 Like how likely is it that something from the top is going to change everything, like

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 kind of the elite psychopath type of people?

00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:58.160
 I think it is most likely that it will be some disaster that forces it.

00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.920
 What was the Diane Fossier, the degrowth thing?

00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.280
 She thought like we would have to go through a primitive state or go back to a primitive

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 state?

00:19:06.280 --> 00:19:12.760
 I don't think it's possible to get back to any kind of a good primitive state, but I

00:19:12.760 --> 00:19:19.200
 think some kind of a big shock is going to have to happen before people, like people

00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:28.400
 fearing Elizabeth Warren's policy suggestions and simply ruling out people like that.

00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.960
 Both parties are committed to destroying the world.

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:39.640
 So unless people start dismantling, preferably the Democratic Party, since there are still

00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:45.720
 people who remember that there used to be policies connected with the party, dismantling

00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:50.360
 that seems like a possible route to the future.

00:19:50.360 --> 00:19:52.920
 I wanted to backtrack a little bit on the verbal system.

00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:58.920
 I don't know, Dr. Peter, are you familiar with this sign/symptom/pathology in psychiatry?

00:19:58.920 --> 00:19:59.920
 They call it Logorare.

00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:03.880
 Basically, it's almost like it literally means verbal diarrhea.

00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:09.520
 And I stumbled upon it a few weeks ago, and when I looked into it, older studies show

00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:14.200
 that it's basically overwhelmingly connected to a number of psychiatric conditions that

00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:18.920
 are known to be driven by excess estrogen and serotonin.

00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:25.360
 And so my question is, do you think that this excessive verbalism, that essentially estrogen

00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:27.640
 and serotonin are partly mediating that?

00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:32.840
 And also, do you think that if somebody is in a culture that's excessively over-verbalized,

00:20:32.840 --> 00:20:35.440
 eventually it can lead to such pathologies itself?

00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:41.680
 Women in general produce many more words per minute than men on average.

00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:47.920
 Starting at the menstrual phase, when estrogen is highest, they can't stop talking.

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 And I think that involves a short circuit of the pictorial, space-filling thought and

00:20:55.280 --> 00:21:01.720
 directing the energy through these repetitive verbal patterns.

00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:09.840
 Very easy to make, not conforming to any practical use.

00:21:09.840 --> 00:21:17.520
 The thing about the acceptor of action, the pictorial model of the world, is that it's

00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:18.680
 always changing.

00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.040
 There's nothing repeated.

00:21:22.040 --> 00:21:26.760
 Anything you try to do twice, it's always different the second time.

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 The word consciousness, the estrogen-driven, lubricated word machine doesn't get any newness

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 admitted.

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 It's always repeating, tending to be cliched, and rehashing things that have already been

00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:45.840
 built into the system.

00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:50.080
 In one of your older interviews, you mentioned that you try to spend at least one day a week

00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:59.040
 not really uttering any words, or reading, and just painting and doing non-verbal activities.

00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:03.960
 You must be thinking that it's beneficial to do it if you're doing it on purpose.

00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:09.080
 I'm guessing my question is, do you think that excessive verbalization, when it's voluntary,

00:22:09.080 --> 00:22:11.320
 it can basically be detrimental?

00:22:11.320 --> 00:22:13.640
 Not if you keep your energy up.

00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:21.080
 When I had to teach 12 hours a week, different classes, after just two or three weeks, my

00:22:21.080 --> 00:22:26.600
 verbal fluency went up tremendously just because I was exercising that.

00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:35.920
 But I never repeated any idea twice through the whole series of lectures.

00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:44.800
 If you keep your energy up, you can verbalize fairly fluently, but always bending the message

00:22:44.800 --> 00:22:47.880
 a little so there's nothing repeated.

00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:53.960
 People always remark how, on KMUD, when Andrew asks you to introduce yourself, you'll change

00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:55.840
 it basically every single time.

00:22:55.840 --> 00:22:59.920
 Are you saying that's the result of keeping the energy up, or are you consciously trying

00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:06.800
 to recreate your history in all the things you've done?

00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:11.840
 I never have the same history twice.

00:23:11.840 --> 00:23:20.280
 A friend had a TV program, and she wanted to do some hour interviews.

00:23:20.280 --> 00:23:29.160
 She was an experienced TV person, so she would run through a trial program and then say she

00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:34.720
 wanted to do it again, but I would give different answers every time.

00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:39.560
 She finally gave up and realized that it was always going to be different answers.

00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:42.520
 But that's just the way I see the question.

00:23:42.520 --> 00:23:45.200
 The question never looks the same the second time.

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.880
 Well, Karen told me probably five or more years ago, she's like, "Danny, something you

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.320
 have to understand about Ray is when you try to put him in a box, he's going to immediately

00:23:53.320 --> 00:23:54.320
 want to get out."

00:23:54.320 --> 00:23:56.440
 So, that made a big...

00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:58.320
 Or won't even get out.

00:23:58.320 --> 00:23:59.320
 Yeah, exactly.

00:23:59.320 --> 00:24:04.560
 But I'm saying, is that a unique aspect of your personality, or do you think that's a

00:24:04.560 --> 00:24:11.440
 metabolic thing of trying to always stay in a creative mindset or something about your

00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:12.440
 history?

00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:18.760
 I first noticed it when I was, I think, three years old and helping my father with a repetitive

00:24:18.760 --> 00:24:19.760
 task.

00:24:19.760 --> 00:24:24.120
 I realized that every time I repeated the task, I was a new person.

00:24:24.120 --> 00:24:29.800
 And ever since then, I've never been able to have the illusion of doing something twice.

00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:30.800
 And that's then...

00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:36.320
 If that's the case, then don't you think that schools are really harmful because they emphasize

00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:41.040
 this routine at every step of the educational process, both the elementary schools, the

00:24:41.040 --> 00:24:42.720
 high schools, and the universities.

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.400
 They really don't like you being different every single time.

00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:53.120
 Yeah, if a person let them be tortured constantly, but you just have to be quiet and let them

00:24:53.120 --> 00:24:54.120
 do their thing.

00:24:54.120 --> 00:24:57.400
 I feel like one of the worst parts about school was sitting down.

00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:01.800
 And now learning about restraint stress and things like that, that seems part of the...

00:25:01.800 --> 00:25:06.400
 I remember just feeling like it was torture sitting down for so long all day.

00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.400
 It's awful.

00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:08.400
 Yeah.

00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.720
 My only concern is that you once said that faint stupidity becomes real stupidity.

00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.760
 So I guess a person just has to be sitting there and hoping that they're not going to

00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:20.320
 be stuck in the educational system long enough to become an idiot like all the other people

00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.560
 being turned into slaves, mental slaves.

00:25:23.560 --> 00:25:30.480
 Yeah, people who did IQ tests on New York City, every year they gave the same students

00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.200
 more IQ tests and found that every year their IQ went down.

00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:35.200
 Wow.

00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:38.880
 Have you also seen the studies showing that the earlier a child starts school, basically

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.720
 the dumber they will exit the whole educational system?

00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.520
 I hadn't seen that, but that would be the same principle.

00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:49.400
 I have two sisters and I don't think either of them watch this, but the one that didn't

00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.840
 go to college I can talk normally with.

00:25:51.840 --> 00:25:55.880
 And then the one that did go to college, we don't have very much in common.

00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:58.000
 So I've definitely seen that played out.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.160
 Ray, do you think the vaccinations, besides the food and the polyunsaturated fats, you

00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:05.920
 see that as a major kind of problem for society?

00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:06.920
 Yeah.

00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:12.520
 I mean, until fairly recently, I hadn't realized that kids are now getting 50 shots by the

00:26:12.520 --> 00:26:15.640
 time they grow up.

00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:24.680
 Robert Kennedy Jr. mentioned that until 1980, only 2.5%, I think, of kids, he said, had

00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:25.680
 allergies.

00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:31.480
 Starting in the 1980s, I think he said it was over half of the kids now have serious

00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:32.680
 allergies.

00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:39.280
 And if you want to create an allergy in an animal, you give it an injection.

00:26:39.280 --> 00:26:46.520
 Intramuscular is ideal to include some little thing like an egg protein or milk protein

00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:51.800
 or any of the various proteins that are in the culture media that they make vaccines

00:26:51.800 --> 00:26:52.800
 in.

00:26:52.800 --> 00:27:00.120
 So they are replicating animal allergy creation every time they give a shot.

00:27:00.120 --> 00:27:03.240
 There's no way to deny it sensibly.

00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:08.320
 I think on one of our conversations, you said the background for vaccines was related to

00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:11.760
 what, like the Rockefeller Foundation and trying to keep workers active.

00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:14.680
 But now, do you think they take on a different meaning nowadays?

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:21.160
 Yeah, I think the money, tremendous money, billions of dollars, 50 billion a year, I

00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:27.360
 think it is profits, mostly profits from the sale of just vaccines.

00:27:27.360 --> 00:27:33.000
 I don't know if Dr. Peat has seen the news, but I was shocked to see CNN last week, putting

00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.280
 a headline news that basically said, "CDC is warning.

00:27:36.280 --> 00:27:42.040
 It's not a question of if, but when coronavirus will create a massive epidemic in the United

00:27:42.040 --> 00:27:43.040
 States."

00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:46.720
 And I thought to myself, why would a health agency issue such a statement?

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.280
 And then why would a major news media publish it?

00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:52.080
 Isn't that like the exact opposite what a government should be doing?

00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:56.360
 Like scaring all of its citizens and not really providing any answers.

00:27:56.360 --> 00:27:59.320
 They're just saying it will be bad and be very afraid.

00:27:59.320 --> 00:28:07.040
 Yeah, but the CDC, I don't know what the average is, but over the last, I think at least 15

00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:14.200
 years, they say that the annual deaths produced by influenza, and I think they're all coronavirus

00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:19.400
 influenza, that's just the standard category that produces influenza.

00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:25.240
 They have been saying, I think it ranges from 9 million deaths per year in the United States

00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:31.120
 to a high of 57 million deaths from influenza per year.

00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:32.120
 That's worldwide?

00:28:32.120 --> 00:28:39.560
 Now they expect us to get excited when a dozen people die.

00:28:39.560 --> 00:28:45.840
 I was trying to think of all the swine flu, SARS, bird flu, Zika virus, is the difference

00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:48.200
 between all these things.

00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.480
 It seems like, I was talking about it with Georgie before I got on the phone with you,

00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:52.480
 Ray.

00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.840
 I have a Twitter application on my phone.

00:28:54.840 --> 00:29:01.040
 So when I do turn on my phone, the application of Twitter, there is a new huge bar on the

00:29:01.040 --> 00:29:03.960
 screen just updating me on coronavirus.

00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:09.800
 But I've never, the application has changed to give me updates that I've never asked for

00:29:09.800 --> 00:29:10.800
 on coronavirus.

00:29:10.800 --> 00:29:15.920
 And it just seems like the marketing campaign is palpable, very, very strong.

00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:22.280
 Yeah, and the World Health Organization is sharing in the corruption, conflicts of interest.

00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:29.040
 So you can't trust any of the big organizations because they manage to profit in some way

00:29:29.040 --> 00:29:33.840
 from the huge amount of wealth that's being directed through the vaccines.

00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:38.280
 I have a question about viral resilience in general.

00:29:38.280 --> 00:29:43.080
 I was reading some older studies and they were all showing that basically the more hydrophilic

00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:46.800
 the cell is, the greater its susceptibility to a viral infection.

00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:50.920
 And then I thought, okay, so doesn't that suggest that the presence of polyunsaturated

00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.920
 fats in the blood would increase susceptibility to the virus?

00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.640
 And unsurprisingly or surprisingly, there are quite a few studies published before the

00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:03.040
 1950s that made that exact same claim, that if you have high levels of unsaturated fats

00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:08.800
 in the blood, they will increase the affinity of the cell for water and also for these viral

00:30:08.800 --> 00:30:09.800
 particles.

00:30:09.800 --> 00:30:13.960
 But if the level of free fatty acids in the blood are low, then cells were extremely resilient

00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:16.920
 to even lethal viruses like the rabies.

00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:24.040
 Yeah, that whole subject, polyunsaturated fats, it's worse than any organized crime

00:30:24.040 --> 00:30:26.200
 campaign.

00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:34.520
 Estrogen and polyunsaturated fats are gigantic criminal businesses and the omega-3 fats are

00:30:34.520 --> 00:30:40.560
 especially powerful in immune suppression, but they market that as being anti-inflammatory.

00:30:40.560 --> 00:30:41.560
 Right.

00:30:41.560 --> 00:30:46.520
 So my question was like basically, wouldn't something as simple as taking some aspirin

00:30:46.520 --> 00:30:51.160
 and niacinamide essentially greatly reduce the risk of catching any viral infection?

00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.040
 Yeah, I think so.

00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:59.920
 And aspirin happens to be an antiviral agent in itself, antibacterial and antiviral.

00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:06.840
 And there was a study, I think around Washington, DC, that tested it on AIDS patients, just

00:31:06.840 --> 00:31:12.960
 big doses of aspirin and it was working, but no one was interested.

00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.840
 I actually met, I live in DC and I met one of the people who were involved in the study

00:31:17.840 --> 00:31:21.640
 and he refuses to talk about it.

00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:24.880
 Basically the statement was, the question is too political.

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.480
 And I said, "Well, I've seen the study.

00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:32.040
 You guys claim that it was terminated because there was a rise in the levels of the liver

00:31:32.040 --> 00:31:33.840
 enzymes in the aspirin group."

00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:37.040
 And he said, "Yeah, that was the official story, but that's not why it was stopped."

00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:40.080
 And when I asked why it was stopped, he said, "It's way above my pay grade."

00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:41.960
 I mean, meaning mine, not his.

00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:47.400
 Ray, one of the papers you had cited in one of your articles, the Persaud paper, and they

00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:51.000
 say, "It is perhaps surprising that essential lipids that are supposed to be so good for

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:54.080
 health are so potent at killing cells."

00:31:54.080 --> 00:31:55.960
 So yeah, just supporting what you're talking about.

00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:02.800
 And then you on your HIV article were referencing papers that those people had high levels of

00:32:02.800 --> 00:32:03.800
 PUFA in their blood.

00:32:03.800 --> 00:32:06.640
 And it's something I had never even heard of anywhere else.

00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:12.440
 Yeah, immunodeficiency is a big thing apart from any virus.

00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:19.560
 Sepsis has been growing along with other degenerative diseases, but young people never used to get

00:32:19.560 --> 00:32:21.220
 sepsis practically.

00:32:21.220 --> 00:32:27.040
 But now sepsis is affecting younger and younger people in bigger numbers.

00:32:27.040 --> 00:32:32.640
 And I think it's largely the stress cumulative effects on PUFA.

00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:38.720
 Well, something that's popular among my group of friends is the idea of herd immunity.

00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.440
 Do you want to speak about that?

00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.000
 I think that's why people are scared.

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:50.160
 And my freedom-loving friends, the best of them would still want other people to forcefully

00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.680
 get vaccinations because they fear for their own safety.

00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:57.400
 And so do you want to maybe speak if you know where that idea stemmed from and then how

00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:02.160
 it does not fit into your biological and physiological picture?

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.080
 It sounds very much like a Nazi program.

00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:10.640
 It doesn't have any convincing weight for me.

00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:16.400
 It just makes me fear the people that say we're a herd that has to be treated one way

00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:17.480
 or another.

00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:21.240
 Have you seen any of that movie Vaxxed?

00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:29.960
 They talk about the military vaccinating people and creating Gulf War syndrome with the anthrax

00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:30.960
 vaccine.

00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:36.560
 Well, I hadn't read that specifically, but Diana Dutton wrote a book called Worse Than

00:33:36.560 --> 00:33:39.600
 Disease where she kind of details the swine flu.

00:33:39.600 --> 00:33:42.280
 And it was kind of similar to what you said earlier about coronavirus.

00:33:42.280 --> 00:33:48.200
 Like the problem didn't kill very many people, but the vaccine caused tons of problems.

00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:56.400
 Yeah, one guy was routed out of bed to go on a forced march and collapsed while marching

00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:01.920
 and died shortly after, and he was diagnosed as having swine flu.

00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:08.400
 He was the only death acknowledged by the head of the CDC from swine flu.

00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:15.840
 But I forget the exact number, but there were thousands of paralytic reactions, and I think

00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.080
 it was around 300 deaths from the vaccine.

00:34:19.080 --> 00:34:22.160
 So hundreds of times worse than the disease.

00:34:22.160 --> 00:34:26.360
 You say in your newsletter, if a vaccine hasn't produced swelling, fever, anaphylaxis, shock,

00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:29.920
 paralysis, or death, within two months, it is safe.

00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:34.160
 Or the public health view, it seems to be that if a vaccine hasn't produced swelling,

00:34:34.160 --> 00:34:35.160
 which is just crazy.

00:34:35.160 --> 00:34:37.640
 Yeah, I wanted to mention something about HIV.

00:34:37.640 --> 00:34:39.680
 Dr. Peat may have seen that study.

00:34:39.680 --> 00:34:41.960
 I think it came out around 2014.

00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:46.000
 Of course, it didn't hit mainstream media, but it showed that, at least the authors claimed

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.560
 that you cannot develop AIDS if you're HIV positive.

00:34:49.560 --> 00:34:54.140
 So you cannot develop AIDS unless there's high levels of endotoxin in your blood.

00:34:54.140 --> 00:34:59.200
 And then there was a subsequent study, I think in 2018, which showed that the single most

00:34:59.200 --> 00:35:05.000
 reliable predictor of death of all-cause mortality in HIV positive people was this level of this

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.720
 protein called soluble CD14.

00:35:08.720 --> 00:35:14.880
 It's abbreviated SCD14, and that is the most reliable biomarker of endotoxin levels in

00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:15.880
 the blood.

00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:19.600
 And for some reason, I never see virologists talk about the role of endotoxin in viral

00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:22.680
 disease and multi-organ failure and in septic shock.

00:35:22.680 --> 00:35:27.040
 Well, in reality, it seems like all of these things are directly caused by endotoxin.

00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:34.400
 Yeah, I'm inclined to think that even cancer is largely an endotoxin problem.

00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:40.640
 Chronic year after year of bad food irritating the intestine, causing increased histamine

00:35:40.640 --> 00:35:47.160
 and serotonin and estrogen, but a constant stream of endotoxin flowing through the system,

00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:53.960
 shaking up chromosomes, creating inflammation, fatiguing the repair systems.

00:35:53.960 --> 00:36:00.560
 Finally, when the repair systems are down to a certain extent, the cancers that are

00:36:00.560 --> 00:36:04.160
 constantly popping up stop being removed.

00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:13.320
 And so if you don't die of acute sepsis, then heart disease and cancer, I think, are the

00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:17.280
 result of chronic exposure to the endotoxin.

00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:24.080
 So would you say the specific organ or tissue where the cancer appears, the apparently localized

00:36:24.080 --> 00:36:27.600
 nature, even though we know it's a systemic problem, the apparently localized nature is

00:36:27.600 --> 00:36:31.840
 simply because that particular organ or tissue was the most energetically compromised.

00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.480
 That's why it took a hold there.

00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:34.480
 Yeah.

00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:41.220
 When I've mentioned the idea of systemic disease to cancer doctors or patients, they really

00:36:41.220 --> 00:36:43.360
 have a hard time, just can't grasp.

00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:49.480
 They've been so indoctrinated with the idea that it's a clone that develops one single

00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.080
 mutant cell develops into the clone.

00:36:52.080 --> 00:36:56.600
 And so it's by definition the most localized thing conceivable.

00:36:56.600 --> 00:36:59.120
 It's platonically localized.

00:36:59.120 --> 00:37:08.240
 But way back 80 or 90 years, people have been seeing precancerous gradations surrounding

00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:09.640
 any tumor.

00:37:09.640 --> 00:37:19.520
 If you look at all of the signs of stem cell signals, all of the inflammatory cytokines,

00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:25.640
 disturbed chromosome balance, all of those things are increased in a gradient.

00:37:25.640 --> 00:37:32.240
 The field concept of cancer goes way back 200 years almost, but it just hasn't been

00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:39.480
 acceptable because of this platonistic genetic determinism, clonal descent of each tumor.

00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.640
 Have you seen the study that came out in 2015?

00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:48.560
 Basically made huge waves across the oncology community, if there is such a thing.

00:37:48.560 --> 00:37:52.400
 And it basically said for over a hundred years, we've been wrong.

00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.600
 We've been calling it the Warburg effect, but now it seems that the effect is the cause

00:37:57.600 --> 00:37:58.600
 as well.

00:37:58.600 --> 00:38:03.240
 In other words, metabolic disturbances and specifically lactic acid precede the genomic

00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:07.160
 abnormalities that are seen in cancer cells and actually the cause of them, not the other

00:38:07.160 --> 00:38:08.160
 way around.

00:38:08.160 --> 00:38:09.160
 Yeah.

00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:15.240
 Lactic acid creates a reduced state, shift the balance towards increased sulfhydryl,

00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:24.880
 NADH ratio to NAD, and all of the electronic and energetic properties of cancer are initiated

00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.640
 just by putting a lot of lactic acid into the system.

00:38:28.640 --> 00:38:29.640
 Yeah.

00:38:29.640 --> 00:38:33.480
 I was just, I saw, I mean, it was posted on one of the biggest social media sites and

00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:38.280
 you could see doctors chiming in and some of them being panicky and saying, "Oh my

00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:42.280
 God, if this is true, it means in my practice as an oncologist, I've been killing people."

00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:44.600
 And others are saying, "Well, it's too early.

00:38:44.600 --> 00:38:45.600
 Let's see genetics.

00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:47.440
 We haven't heard the last of genetics yet.

00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:49.040
 Let's give genetics a chance.

00:38:49.040 --> 00:38:50.920
 Maybe we'll find a way to treat it genetically."

00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:56.640
 But overall the mood was, well, it was pessimistic for the oncologist, but the general public

00:38:56.640 --> 00:39:00.180
 that was reading this thread and responding seemed to be pretty ecstatic because people

00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:06.280
 immediately caught on the fact that if cancer is metabolic and it's this continuous field,

00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:07.560
 then it can probably be reversed.

00:39:07.560 --> 00:39:10.960
 You don't need to subject yourself to this torture that your oncologist is giving you

00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:12.400
 and likely killing you.

00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:13.400
 There are other ways.

00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:18.240
 And the doctors were heavily arguing against it in that same thread saying, "No, people,

00:39:18.240 --> 00:39:20.960
 if you choose the metabolic route, you'll be killing yourselves.

00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:22.240
 You're signing your death warrants.

00:39:22.240 --> 00:39:25.640
 You should stay with a traditional therapist because until we know more."

00:39:25.640 --> 00:39:27.760
 Did you ever read Max Gerson's book?

00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.000
 I think it's called 59 Cases.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.320
 He, coffee enemas were one of his staples.

00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:42.000
 He generally gave people thyroid and tried to get their metabolism towards oxidative

00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.360
 energy production.

00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:50.040
 But cleaning the intestine was probably his single most effective thing.

00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:57.320
 Even if he sometimes had an old person who was very debilitated, he would sometimes give

00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:01.440
 them a coffee enema every hour around the clock.

00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:06.040
 Get them out of bed to wash their intestine again.

00:40:06.040 --> 00:40:14.040
 He actually cured numerous advanced cases of cancer documented with photographs.

00:40:14.040 --> 00:40:21.720
 I think chronically keeping the endotoxin down gives the recuperative system a great

00:40:21.720 --> 00:40:22.720
 chance.

00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:27.400
 So that would explain largely why recent studies with the tetracycline and the biotics, especially

00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:32.720
 doxycycline, are reporting such remarkable effects.

00:40:32.720 --> 00:40:33.720
 Yeah.

00:40:33.720 --> 00:40:41.160
 In 1965, which was the first time, some doctor sent me an argument that he was curing cancer

00:40:41.160 --> 00:40:42.160
 with antibiotics.

00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:50.320
 I didn't at that time think of it in terms of cutting out the endotoxin, but people have

00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:53.400
 been doing it repeatedly over several decades.

00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:59.760
 I have to send you a press release from Harvard University, I think it's from early '90s.

00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.800
 It's about a lady that ran a cancer lab there.

00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.320
 The news article was a popular press article.

00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:11.920
 It said, "Doctor Johnson is capable of curing mice of lethal leukemia every time she wants

00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:12.920
 to."

00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:13.920
 How does she do that?

00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:14.920
 By giving them tetracycline.

00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.280
 Then immediately the question is, "Why can't this be done in people?"

00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.280
 She said, "Because it's not FDA approved."

00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.400
 I thought to myself, "What a stupid excuse.

00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:27.260
 What is the antibiotic going to do to these terminally ill people?

00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:28.260
 What, kill them?"

00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:29.600
 I mean, they're dying anyways.

00:41:29.600 --> 00:41:34.400
 Why not try something that's already approved for usage in people and it's known to be relatively

00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:35.400
 safe?

00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.760
 Why do we have to wait on the bureaucracy to give us approval to live?

00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:42.000
 Why can't this be tried by good natured doctors?

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:49.280
 I've known doctors who were declared imminently dying in hospital and they wanted to try something

00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.280
 on their own.

00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:56.720
 The supervising doctors took their stuff away from them, wouldn't let experiment, even though

00:41:56.720 --> 00:42:01.320
 they were said to have only 48 hours left to live, they couldn't experiment on themselves.

00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:07.240
 Yeah, I remember there was a neurologist who got a neuroglial dystoma and he started injecting

00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:12.120
 himself with some kind of a virus or bacteria to give himself fever because he read that

00:42:12.120 --> 00:42:14.920
 fever sometimes cured cancer.

00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:16.720
 He was immediately declared mentally unfit.

00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:20.720
 They basically committed this doctor who used to work in this hospital, they locked him

00:42:20.720 --> 00:42:24.600
 up in his own hospital and let him, he died like a few weeks later.

00:42:24.600 --> 00:42:30.800
 There have been a couple of studies in which people, they accidentally noticed that women

00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:38.480
 who were given an antibiotic course, among other things, they recovered from their headaches,

00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:43.840
 but they did blood tests and found that before the antibiotic, they had high estrogen and

00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:49.800
 cortisol and low progesterone and after the course of antibiotics, their progesterone

00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:56.240
 went up and both cortisol and the estrogen went down, both of which would favor recovery

00:42:56.240 --> 00:42:57.720
 from cancer.

00:42:57.720 --> 00:43:05.440
 The cortisol is weakening your immune processes, for example, and estrogen is stimulating the

00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:06.440
 cell growth.

00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:10.400
 In rats, same thing was observed.

00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:17.520
 A course of antibiotics lowers cortisol and estrogen and increases progesterone and so

00:43:17.520 --> 00:43:24.640
 the coffee enema or the antibiotic or a high fiber diet, all of those things are actually

00:43:24.640 --> 00:43:27.520
 remedying your hormone situation.

00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:32.480
 Did you know that cortisol is given to pretty much any cancer patients as kind of like a

00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:33.480
 standard treatment?

00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:34.480
 Along with morphine.

00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:35.480
 And morphine, yes.

00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:40.480
 And morphine increases histamine release.

00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:48.680
 Histamine is a powerful tumor promoter, so they usually adjust the dose so that they're

00:43:48.680 --> 00:43:52.480
 dead before they notice that the tumor has grown faster.

00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.880
 I just never cease to amaze me.

00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.960
 The explanation of the doctors, because I used to work in a medical field, was that

00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:04.680
 well, the patient has inflammation in edema and we need to reduce it with a cortisol and

00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:09.000
 I thought, "Aren't there other safer anti-inflammatory methods?"

00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:13.600
 Because even as ignorant as some doctors are, some of them do know that cortisol does not

00:44:13.600 --> 00:44:15.640
 seem to be helping the tumor patients.

00:44:15.640 --> 00:44:19.440
 They're almost using it because by definition, that's the powerful anti-inflammatory they

00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.440
 have on file and they have to use it.

00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:28.120
 Ray, would you put Paul Ehrlich in the pantheon of people that have ruined science?

00:44:28.120 --> 00:44:29.960
 So Weissman, Paul Ehrlich.

00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:34.400
 And Ehrlich was the same guy that did the estrogen receptor stuff, is that right?

00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:41.600
 He popularized the whole idea of lock and key receptor specificity.

00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:46.960
 That whole receptor idea is perfect for selling chemicals.

00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:53.000
 Every chemical can have a receptor and so it's perfect for the chemical industry.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:03.560
 And the holistic, ongoing whirlwind picture of the organism where, for example, a large

00:45:03.560 --> 00:45:08.560
 dose of a chemical can have an opposite effect of a small dose.

00:45:08.560 --> 00:45:14.600
 Those contradictory anti-receptor pictures are no good for the chemical industry.

00:45:14.600 --> 00:45:17.200
 I have a question about the whole receptor thing.

00:45:17.200 --> 00:45:22.120
 I'm sure you've probably noticed this yourself, but I looked at all of the hormones that are

00:45:22.120 --> 00:45:26.360
 currently known and then I also looked at the receptor and the receptor structure.

00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:29.880
 There is a significant overlap in terms of the amino acid sequence and the structure

00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:31.300
 of the various receptors.

00:45:31.300 --> 00:45:35.760
 So even though, let's say, a pharmaceutical company may claim that they've developed this

00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:40.640
 extremely selective, say, estrogen agonist, if you go back and look at the other studies

00:45:40.640 --> 00:45:44.540
 done by other groups, you'll see invariably that the substance that they claim is extremely

00:45:44.540 --> 00:45:47.720
 selective is invariably acting on other receptors as well.

00:45:47.720 --> 00:45:53.800
 So my question is, is it even possible to develop a truly selective receptor compound

00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:56.320
 given that the various receptors have so much overlap?

00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.080
 No, I don't think so.

00:45:58.080 --> 00:46:05.160
 The whole idea of receptors derives from Ehrlich and I think it's right down to its foundation,

00:46:05.160 --> 00:46:06.160
 Karep.

00:46:06.160 --> 00:46:14.920
 Szent-Györgyi reviewed in one of his books ideas that Pavlov was familiar with around the turn

00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:16.120
 of the century.

00:46:16.120 --> 00:46:24.440
 The idea that the dose determines the effect, like a small amount of caffeine is sedative,

00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:30.280
 a large amount is stimulating, and even larger amount is narcotic.

00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:40.560
 And the dose of a sedative, a small dose will be a stimulant, a larger dose a sedative.

00:46:40.560 --> 00:46:51.440
 And the typical curve has been tested on hundreds of different substances and it consistently

00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:56.160
 contradicts the idea of a specific receptor doing a specific thing.

00:46:56.160 --> 00:47:03.320
 The only way you can imagine that three-phase curve working is if you think of the cell

00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:11.840
 as substance or characteristic qualities and substance.

00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:20.200
 You have to think as something which can move from one phase to another, potentially a series

00:47:20.200 --> 00:47:27.000
 of phase, each phase having a characteristic behavior.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:36.560
 So the differentiation occurs in the cytoplasm as a whole and that state of the cytoplasm

00:47:36.560 --> 00:47:45.640
 evokes the expression or stabilizes the expression of the genes that are appropriate for that

00:47:45.640 --> 00:47:46.640
 state.

00:47:46.640 --> 00:47:55.480
 And by thinking in terms of physical states, you can visualize the quantity as reaching

00:47:55.480 --> 00:48:02.440
 a threshold of cooperative phase transition happens when many things work in the same

00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:03.440
 direction.

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:08.040
 So basically the whole idea of using one substance that will work in only one particular way,

00:48:08.040 --> 00:48:09.040
 it's hopeless.

00:48:09.040 --> 00:48:11.560
 I mean, basically the organism doesn't work like that.

00:48:11.560 --> 00:48:17.160
 You can create the illusion that it does by setting conditions just exactly right and

00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:23.080
 then you can get the apparent specific interaction and reaction, but it's a purely artificial

00:48:23.080 --> 00:48:24.080
 setup.

00:48:24.080 --> 00:48:29.240
 Have you seen the recent news about the resurgence of estrogen, of hormone replacement therapy

00:48:29.240 --> 00:48:31.280
 with estrogen in menopausal women?

00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:35.640
 They're trying to kind of put down all the findings of the Women's Health Initiative

00:48:35.640 --> 00:48:38.640
 study and try to reintroduce estrogen as therapy.

00:48:38.640 --> 00:48:46.720
 Yeah, in 1973 or '74, I saw a resurgence and about every five or ten years, the actual

00:48:46.720 --> 00:48:49.640
 science makes a little headway.

00:48:49.640 --> 00:48:57.340
 The big headway was the Women's Health Initiative and within five years, the people at Stanford

00:48:57.340 --> 00:49:05.320
 were instrumental in explaining why estrogen didn't really cause cancer, strokes, heart

00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:12.400
 attacks and so on and their favorite explanation is it's really progesterone.

00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:20.280
 And originally, estrogen was recognized as doing certain things to the organism and they

00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:27.400
 identified the estrogen receptor as a major way that it does that even though hypoxia

00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:34.080
 in the absence of estrogen will cause the receptor to behave the same.

00:49:34.080 --> 00:49:39.200
 Estrogen creates hypoxia and activates the estrogen.

00:49:39.200 --> 00:49:43.400
 Hypoxia alone will do it if something else creates it.

00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:51.800
 When they needed to explain away that estrogen does everything that it does, they discovered

00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:58.240
 the estrogen receptor beta and it turns out that almost everything that estrogen doesn't

00:49:58.240 --> 00:50:07.160
 do, the beta does, it stops growth, stops all of the characteristic estrogen behaviors

00:50:07.160 --> 00:50:14.560
 and pretty much parallels the actions of progesterone and progesterone now is divided into an A

00:50:14.560 --> 00:50:15.560
 and B receptor.

00:50:15.560 --> 00:50:25.760
 The A receptor is activated by estrogen and it activates the progesterone B but they're

00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:31.920
 just thinking wildly of ways that they can say that progesterone is responsible for all

00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:35.720
 of the bad stuff that has been blamed on estrogen.

00:50:35.720 --> 00:50:40.320
 I emailed one of the authors of one of the big papers that's now calling for reintroduction

00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.440
 of estrogen as therapy for women and I said, "How can we ignore all this science?

00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:48.120
 I mean that's pretty much indisputable that estrogen is carcinogenic."

00:50:48.120 --> 00:50:52.400
 There is actually a page posted on the website of the National Institutes of Health which

00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:58.360
 officially defines and declares estrogen as a carcinogen and a mutagen and I said, "Well,

00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:02.880
 your own organization," I think basically that person either used to work or works at

00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:06.920
 NIH, I said, "Your own organization says that estrogen is this dangerous chemical."

00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:11.520
 He said, "Well, estrogen has non-genomic effects that are actually beneficial and if

00:51:11.520 --> 00:51:16.880
 we give it at lower dosages, it acts as a powerful antioxidant that will remove the

00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:21.520
 need for people to take vitamin E and C and it will give them all the benefit for heart

00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:24.840
 protection without actually having the carcinogenic effects."

00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:26.280
 Are you still there, Georgie?

00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:29.600
 Oh no, did we lose Ray?

00:51:29.600 --> 00:51:30.600
 Maybe we did.

00:51:30.600 --> 00:51:31.600
 Okay.

00:51:31.600 --> 00:51:32.600
 Seems like he's there.

00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:33.880
 Maybe let me hang up, call him back.

00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:34.880
 Okay, Ray, you're not there, right?

00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:36.640
 Okay, I'm going to hang up, call him back.

00:51:36.640 --> 00:51:37.640
 These things happen.

00:51:37.640 --> 00:51:39.640
 I was afraid you were frozen too.

00:51:39.640 --> 00:51:41.640
 I was like, "I'm going to really..."

00:51:41.640 --> 00:51:42.640
 Because I never move and never see anything.

00:51:42.640 --> 00:51:47.440
 I was going to be like, "Oh man, I have a serious problem if everything just froze.

00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:48.840
 That would be really not good."

00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:53.200
 I think I finally bored Ray to death and he's like, "I'm done with this.

00:51:53.200 --> 00:51:54.200
 You guys keep talking."

00:51:54.200 --> 00:51:55.400
 Okay, let me...

00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:58.600
 Unable to add participant is unavailable.

00:51:58.600 --> 00:51:59.600
 Is it busy?

00:51:59.600 --> 00:52:00.600
 Does that mean it's giving business signal or something?

00:52:00.600 --> 00:52:01.600
 Maybe.

00:52:01.600 --> 00:52:04.760
 I wonder if he's trying to call back the number, which would, I think, be impossible.

00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:05.760
 I don't know.

00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:06.760
 We'll see.

00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:07.840
 Okay, everybody, thank you so much.

00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:10.080
 I think we have like 250 people.

00:52:10.080 --> 00:52:14.240
 This is obviously the most people we've ever had on here, so that is heartwarming.

00:52:14.240 --> 00:52:19.080
 I never wanted to get Ray on until I felt real comfortable with the mechanics of the

00:52:19.080 --> 00:52:20.080
 live stream stuff.

00:52:20.080 --> 00:52:22.280
 So, I feel more comfortable with it.

00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:24.240
 I'm happy to have this happen.

00:52:24.240 --> 00:52:26.440
 It's everything I ever dreamed of.

00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:28.480
 Thanks Georgie and massive thanks to Ray.

00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:29.480
 Let me call him back again.

00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:31.480
 I wonder if there's a time limit on the show.

00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:32.480
 Ray, you're back.

00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:33.480
 Okay.

00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:34.480
 We lost you for a second.

00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:35.480
 I didn't hear when it went dead.

00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:36.480
 I don't know either, Georgie.

00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:37.480
 Do you remember when we lost Ray?

00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.160
 It was kind of like a strange...

00:52:39.160 --> 00:52:41.360
 I thought my whole computer froze, but it didn't.

00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:44.480
 No, I was talking about the reintroduction of estrogen.

00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:48.760
 I was talking to one of the authors of a big study that came out this year and I emailed

00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:53.760
 him and I said, "How can you argue that estrogen is good considering that your own organization,

00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:57.840
 I think that person works for the NIH, has a webpage which says estrogen is a carcinogen

00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.840
 and a mutagen.

00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:03.000
 So, why would you argue that estrogen needs to be reintroduced and given to women?"

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:07.640
 And he said, "Estrogen has non-genomic effects that don't involve the estrogen receptor and

00:53:07.640 --> 00:53:09.440
 acts as a powerful antioxidant.

00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:14.960
 So, if we give it to women in the right dosage, they will obviate the need for them to take

00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:19.840
 massive doses of vitamin E and C and it will provide them with this benefit of cardiovascular

00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:22.800
 protection and everything that these great antioxidants do."

00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:27.880
 So, I said, "So, how can you prevent estrogen from activating these receptors that you know

00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:29.560
 are causing cancer?"

00:53:29.560 --> 00:53:32.520
 And he basically said, "It's the dosage that makes the poison."

00:53:32.520 --> 00:53:35.520
 So, they're thinking that lower dose estrogen, it's going to be beneficial.

00:53:35.520 --> 00:53:40.000
 And I remember you said in several of these letters that a continuous uninterrupted exposure

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.680
 to a low dose of estrogen is probably more harmful than getting estrogen spikes like

00:53:44.680 --> 00:53:46.920
 every few days or every few weeks.

00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:52.920
 Yeah, that was Alexander Lipschutz from about 1938 through the 1940s.

00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:59.640
 He did many animal experiments showing that even very small doses of estrogen, unless

00:53:59.640 --> 00:54:05.960
 they were interrupted with progesterone, were carcinogenic not just to the uterus and breast

00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:14.080
 but to the lungs, kidneys, brain, every organ would eventually develop estrogen-induced

00:54:14.080 --> 00:54:15.080
 cancer.

00:54:15.080 --> 00:54:20.600
 Well, if estrogen is, I mean, if cancer is a state of chronic reductive stress and estrogen

00:54:20.600 --> 00:54:25.040
 is a powerful reductant itself, doesn't that almost guarantee that estrogen will at the

00:54:25.040 --> 00:54:27.320
 very least contribute to an already established cancer?

00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.720
 Yeah, I don't know of any case where it doesn't.

00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:34.800
 To change gears a little bit, Ray, I feel like you're getting more popular on YouTube

00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:38.680
 and Twitter and things and people say all sorts of things about why you do what you

00:54:38.680 --> 00:54:39.680
 do.

00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:44.840
 And so, maybe we could just take a second to say like, why do you do what you do?

00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:50.320
 Just from your own words because so many people just basically make up things.

00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:53.000
 And so, I was just curious about your position on that.

00:54:53.000 --> 00:55:01.360
 Part of my understanding of what I'm doing here in the world, checking ideas and looking

00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:11.280
 for new perspectives, checking what people believe and trying to avoid the bad interpretations

00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:14.280
 that lead to bad actions and results.

00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:21.320
 It's always part of the same process of looking for something to do.

00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:27.720
 And maybe just an elevator pitch of your general hypothesis, like what you say on the front

00:55:27.720 --> 00:55:32.840
 of your webpage, the idea that energy and structure are interdependent at every level.

00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:38.200
 I made a video about this not fairly recently, but it's like, because the nutrition world

00:55:38.200 --> 00:55:44.560
 is so stuck on different diets, obviously this whole conversation is about how complex

00:55:44.560 --> 00:55:49.960
 everything is, but your work gets reduced down to kind of a caricature of like you drink

00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:54.280
 two gallons of milk and two gallons of orange juice and a bag of sugar and then you're doing

00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:55.280
 your "Ray Peat Diet".

00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:00.680
 So, what is your perspective of what maintains health and then what is the differentiator

00:56:00.680 --> 00:56:02.840
 into the state of sickness?

00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:05.360
 There are two simple choices.

00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:14.800
 One that the genes have been laid out, have created a blueprint for creating the structures

00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:22.200
 and all the energy has to do is help to roll those out and once they're in place, just

00:56:22.200 --> 00:56:24.200
 to keep them running.

00:56:24.200 --> 00:56:33.280
 Like, that orientation leads to the idea that the less you live, the longer you will live.

00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:43.400
 The idea that you're going to burn up your, the whole apparatus will wear out the faster

00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:45.120
 you use it.

00:56:45.120 --> 00:56:52.840
 That all comes from the reductionist idea of a machine laid out in genetic blueprints.

00:56:52.840 --> 00:57:01.840
 It's a machine powered by a Rube Goldberg system, which is 20th century science.

00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:09.960
 And the other picture is the developmental picture that energy flowing from the sun through

00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:18.680
 the atmosphere is creating structures that the flow of energy itself generates structures

00:57:18.680 --> 00:57:24.480
 and the faster the energy flows, the more complex the structure becomes and the more

00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:32.520
 energy is saved in the system in the form of complexity of structure and the efficiency

00:57:32.520 --> 00:57:40.760
 increases, but the waste is part of what is powering it.

00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:48.840
 You don't have to think in terms of the efficiency of the system because the energy flowing through

00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:55.280
 the system, even though the oxidative apparatus is getting more efficient, you're building

00:57:55.280 --> 00:58:03.000
 a bigger system faster than the complexity and efficiency accumulates.

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:10.440
 So it's the speed with which you can waste the energy while responding to it, building

00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:14.440
 your complexity that is holding up the whole structure.

00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:22.040
 And it's simply a picture of an ecosystem responding physically to energy.

00:58:22.040 --> 00:58:26.520
 It doesn't violate any of the known physical laws.

00:58:26.520 --> 00:58:35.000
 It uses them in more intelligent ways than the Rube Goldberg science of membranes, genes,

00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:36.000
 and so on.

00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:39.400
 And then you feel like you're following it, like this is not some idea that you cooked

00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:40.400
 up on your own.

00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:44.920
 Like you feel like you're following in a tradition of people like Szent-Györgyi, like Otto Warburg,

00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:47.520
 like Koch and others?

00:58:47.520 --> 00:58:48.520
 Yeah.

00:58:48.520 --> 00:58:50.320
 And even earlier, J.C.

00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:53.080
 Bose was one of my first inspirations.

00:58:53.080 --> 00:58:55.160
 I have a question.

00:58:55.160 --> 00:59:01.960
 Do you think that this openness to new ideas that these people had, it was sort of enabled

00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:05.720
 by their relatively faster metabolism?

00:59:05.720 --> 00:59:10.240
 And or do you think it was more or less childhood experiences that set them to be that way,

00:59:10.240 --> 00:59:13.880
 to be open to new opportunities and to actually actively seek them out?

00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:19.120
 I think a good intrauterine environment is a tremendous part of it.

00:59:19.120 --> 00:59:25.640
 You can, like Katharina Dalton's patients, the older kids, her patients had 95 average

00:59:25.640 --> 00:59:26.640
 IQ.

00:59:26.640 --> 00:59:34.800
 And just by treating the mothers with progesterone, her patients' kids had something like 135

00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:35.800
 average IQ.

00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:40.520
 The same mother, but better nourishment in utero.

00:59:40.520 --> 00:59:47.800
 And that kind of a head start gives you a lot of energy for absorbing shocks from the

00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:49.160
 oppressive environment.

00:59:49.160 --> 00:59:50.160
 Okay.

00:59:50.160 --> 00:59:54.520
 A question related to that, to expand a little bit on that, is, as I'm sure you're familiar,

00:59:54.520 --> 01:00:00.040
 sick people and sick animals tend to sort of retreat, avoid the real world and really

01:00:00.040 --> 01:00:02.440
 limit their spectrum of activity.

01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:05.720
 Some of them may even stop eating and basically they just want to keep to themselves and be

01:00:05.720 --> 01:00:06.720
 left alone.

01:00:06.720 --> 01:00:11.120
 Considering the fact that novelty and new experiences and being stimulated in the proper

01:00:11.120 --> 01:00:16.520
 way is so very therapeutic, do you think these sick organisms are making a pathological choice

01:00:16.520 --> 01:00:19.600
 that's not good for them based on their already poor health?

01:00:19.600 --> 01:00:24.320
 Or do you think it's actually a choice that at least in the short term, it's good for

01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:25.320
 them?

01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:27.580
 Basically, they don't have the energy to meet the demands of the world.

01:00:27.580 --> 01:00:31.400
 So they're retreating and hoping that they'll recover and then they'll come back.

01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:32.400
 Yeah.

01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:35.000
 Usually there's something specific that has happened.

01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:41.880
 They've eaten something or caught an infection, got poisoned and retreat and let the body

01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:44.440
 repair itself.

01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:51.600
 Paracelsus was one of the first people to put it into practice where he put his pharmacological

01:00:51.600 --> 01:00:58.880
 preparation on the sword that caused the wound and spared the patient the medication and

01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:04.200
 discovered that patients recovered much better without the medication.

01:01:04.200 --> 01:01:10.920
 Every time there's been an opportunity to compare medicated people with unmedicated,

01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:13.600
 the ones without medicine are much healthier.

01:01:13.600 --> 01:01:22.840
 So like animals, we could just take a week or two to retreat and maybe have a milkshake

01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:24.520
 now and then.

01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:28.640
 People would be much healthier, more likely to survive to old age.

01:01:28.640 --> 01:01:32.680
 So I guess initially it would be beneficial to retreat because you want to recover your

01:01:32.680 --> 01:01:37.200
 energetic resources, but do you think that over time if this becomes a chronic sort of

01:01:37.200 --> 01:01:41.200
 isolation self-imposed, that over time it actually becomes pathological, it starts to

01:01:41.200 --> 01:01:44.080
 hurt health because you've retreated so much from the world?

01:01:44.080 --> 01:01:50.640
 Yeah, there are people who do that, but they need new opportunities as well.

01:01:50.640 --> 01:01:56.040
 The culture isn't rushing to give them healthy, new, interesting opportunities.

01:01:56.040 --> 01:01:59.080
 In many cases, actually, they retreated because their doctor told them to.

01:01:59.080 --> 01:02:04.160
 It's, you know, they say, "Stay in your room until I call you and tell you it's okay to

01:02:04.160 --> 01:02:05.840
 get out."

01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:09.880
 To bring it back to politics a little bit, like, Ray, you think there's a way forward

01:02:09.880 --> 01:02:12.840
 with the kind of the system that we have at the moment?

01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:14.440
 Like you see glimmers of hope.

01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:18.960
 Like I remember when you were talking to Gavin for that interview on politics when Trump

01:02:18.960 --> 01:02:23.080
 had just been elected, like it seemed like, okay, this is different.

01:02:23.080 --> 01:02:28.080
 But then over time, he seems to have been absorbed into the same kind of stereotypical

01:02:28.080 --> 01:02:31.120
 problems of endless war and things like that.

01:02:31.120 --> 01:02:33.840
 But you do see a glimmer of hope in that whole system?

01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:36.560
 Do you know who Ann Coulter is?

01:02:36.560 --> 01:02:43.080
 I think of her as personification of Gooney reactionary philosophy.

01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:50.480
 But weirdly, she has made some of the most insightful comments about what's going on

01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:51.480
 now.

01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:58.320
 For example, comparing Bernie and Trump, she pointed out that the very things that

01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:07.280
 he campaigned on but didn't exactly fulfill, keeping us out of war, taxing the untaxed

01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:12.720
 corporations like Amazon and the banks, and stopping immigration.

01:03:12.720 --> 01:03:20.840
 Bernie has identical policies to what people were perceiving as Trump's campaign promises.

01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:26.920
 And she says that he is Trump's real threat.

01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:33.680
 And the polls, almost all of the polls are showing Bernie beating Trump by several points,

01:03:33.680 --> 01:03:35.040
 percentage points.

01:03:35.040 --> 01:03:43.160
 And most people in the public media, especially the Democrats, don't want to talk about that

01:03:43.160 --> 01:03:44.160
 possibility.

01:03:44.160 --> 01:03:51.600
 They think that the same people who saw a possibility in Trump avoiding war and taxing

01:03:51.600 --> 01:03:55.600
 the giant corporations, that's what they see in Bernie.

01:03:55.600 --> 01:04:04.360
 And so if he could run against Trump, then other realistic things then would be at issue.

01:04:04.360 --> 01:04:09.120
 Maybe Ann Coulter is espousing some of those, you introduced me to the term, but paleo-conservative

01:04:09.120 --> 01:04:11.920
 a little bit, some of those ideas?

01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:18.920
 Yeah, I don't know what really went through Ann Coulter's mind, but it was more perceptive

01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:22.960
 than I've seen any of the Democrat liberals doing.

01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:31.040
 Yeah, the paleo-conservatives are very consistent on avoiding war, but some of their policies

01:04:31.040 --> 01:04:32.440
 are really dopey.

01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:36.440
 Well, not to get too deep into a rabbit hole on this, but things like immigration and things,

01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:41.020
 I know there was, I forget the author, but it was like a book called Weapons of Mass

01:04:41.020 --> 01:04:42.020
 Migration.

01:04:42.020 --> 01:04:48.760
 And so this is not a topic I spend lots of time thinking about, but those types of things

01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:51.160
 to kind of influence the culture.

01:04:51.160 --> 01:04:55.560
 And I know the paleo-conservatives are against that, but again, I'm like reading Bucky Fuller

01:04:55.560 --> 01:04:58.920
 and him saying that there shouldn't be borders and things like that.

01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:04.080
 I agree with that type of view, but I'm also, I don't know, I'm torn between these different

01:05:04.080 --> 01:05:06.160
 points of view of migration and things.

01:05:06.160 --> 01:05:10.760
 And also being in a, living in different countries, it's not very easy to stay anywhere else aside

01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:12.240
 from Mexico or America.

01:05:12.240 --> 01:05:19.760
 Yeah, Bucky Fowler would say that the corollary is that you stop creating horror experiences

01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:29.280
 at home, like imposing a fascist on Honduras, where the elected president was improving,

01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:37.360
 he just wanted to raise the minimum wage and barely improve things, but definitely improving.

01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:46.480
 He was kicked out, Hillary Clinton oversaw putting a fascist in, and all of the progressive

01:05:46.480 --> 01:05:54.840
 labor people trying to get a minimum wage, they're being murdered, environmentalists

01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:56.360
 are being murdered.

01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:05.000
 And so obviously it's an improvement for them to try to get in the United States, but simply

01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:14.120
 stopping the oppression of third world countries would stop the immigration, improve conditions.

01:06:14.120 --> 01:06:20.000
 Hondurans would rather live in Honduras with a better standard of living than going to

01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:22.480
 the US and looking for work.

01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:32.560
 Erdogan and Turkey is following the Muslim Brotherhood, Al-Qaeda, allying with Al-Qaeda

01:06:32.560 --> 01:06:41.160
 and ending up creating more refugees and trying to send them to Europe to force Europe to

01:06:41.160 --> 01:06:46.020
 send an army in to give Syria to him.

01:06:46.020 --> 01:06:54.840
 If you simply stop supporting the murder and the oppression in places like Turkey and Honduras,

01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:57.200
 you would stop the immigration problem.

01:06:57.200 --> 01:06:59.960
 And that's from the imperialist US war machine.

01:06:59.960 --> 01:07:00.960
 Yeah.

01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:02.880
 I think it's more than the US involved here.

01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:07.120
 I think there are a number of imperialists in this world that are acting in concert with

01:07:07.120 --> 01:07:11.720
 the United States and often actually spearheading the war in certain places of the world, even

01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:13.520
 more than the United States.

01:07:13.520 --> 01:07:17.960
 I mean, Russia and Turkey, just as you said, Dr. Pied, and France and Germany, they all

01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:20.320
 have competing interests in the Middle East.

01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:23.600
 Israel, of course, Saudi Arabia, Iran.

01:07:23.600 --> 01:07:28.280
 So the United States gets a lot of the blame being the largest empire of them all, but

01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:32.800
 I think plenty of other countries that are at least as evil, and in this specific case,

01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:35.920
 probably even more so than the United States.

01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:41.080
 Just the number of soldiers maintained in other people's countries, the US is by far

01:07:41.080 --> 01:07:42.080
 the leader.

01:07:42.080 --> 01:07:43.080
 Yeah.

01:07:43.080 --> 01:07:44.080
 So I have a question for you.

01:07:44.080 --> 01:07:47.040
 I mean, given everything that we've talked about so far, and politicians getting elected

01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:52.200
 and then getting mired in the very swamp that they pledged to drain, and I've read history,

01:07:52.200 --> 01:07:57.320
 maybe definitely not as extensively as you, but I don't know of a single case of an empire

01:07:57.320 --> 01:07:58.320
 that got reformed.

01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:02.080
 Do you think that this empire or any empire can be reformed?

01:08:02.080 --> 01:08:07.240
 All I saw in history was empires either expanding, reaching their peak, and then either sort

01:08:07.240 --> 01:08:11.080
 of like gently fading into oblivion or collapsing almost overnight.

01:08:11.080 --> 01:08:18.360
 I never saw a case of a peaceful, semi-peaceful, or even constructive reform of an empire.

01:08:18.360 --> 01:08:24.480
 Yeah, I think theoretically, had that in mind, controlled collapse of the empire, withdrawing

01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:31.960
 the army more or less quickly, but the imperialists in the military, for example, don't want to

01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:33.720
 lose their power.

01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:40.320
 If Bernie could actually run against him, I think between them, they would possibly

01:08:40.320 --> 01:08:45.920
 recruit more supporters for bringing the empire down fairly quickly.

01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:49.120
 And what would that entail in your view, bringing down the empire?

01:08:49.120 --> 01:08:55.920
 Would it be simply end of the world wars that the military machine has started, or do you

01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:59.160
 mean a more radical social change at home?

01:08:59.160 --> 01:09:07.400
 If you freed up the Pentagon budget, for example, 90% of it putting the US on a scale with other

01:09:07.400 --> 01:09:15.440
 big countries, that amount of money removed from military destruction could far more than

01:09:15.440 --> 01:09:23.680
 finance any kind of Bernie Sanders programs, free college, health care for everyone, good

01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:25.600
 education, health care.

01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:30.960
 I just don't see the powers that be relinquishing that war machine, because that is the source

01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:32.280
 of their power.

01:09:32.280 --> 01:09:39.040
 And whoever gets elected, in my view, will be either undermined politically, or maybe

01:09:39.040 --> 01:09:40.040
 even worse.

01:09:40.040 --> 01:09:45.040
 Maybe this country has already seen an assassination of a president, and apparently, if you believe

01:09:45.040 --> 01:09:50.080
 other historical sources, attempted assassinations on other presidents that weren't playing ball.

01:09:50.080 --> 01:09:54.660
 I read the JFK, the unspeakable.

01:09:54.660 --> 01:10:02.000
 That gives a very close view of how Kennedy was backing off from the empire, and they

01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:03.360
 didn't want him to back off.

01:10:03.360 --> 01:10:12.960
 I think even Trump realizes that same mechanism being in action, and he has his own secret

01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:14.280
 service, for example.

01:10:14.280 --> 01:10:19.560
 The secret service pretty obviously was involved in killing Kennedy, and Trump knew enough

01:10:19.560 --> 01:10:25.560
 to have his own private security rather than the secret service.

01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:31.680
 So I didn't know that much about Trump leading up to the election, but his bailout from some

01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:36.280
 Rothschild family member, and then his close association with Sheldon Adelson, were there

01:10:36.280 --> 01:10:40.320
 clues that he was not going to follow through with what he was talking about?

01:10:40.320 --> 01:10:44.720
 Because he seems to be totally co-opted, and again, like you said, he's not doing the things

01:10:44.720 --> 01:10:46.720
 that he originally promised to do.

01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:53.200
 Yeah, he has repeatedly tried to sign the agreement with the Taliban.

01:10:53.200 --> 01:10:59.240
 Pompeo keeps sabotaging it, but Trump keeps going back and trying to keep the withdrawal

01:10:59.240 --> 01:11:00.240
 on schedule.

01:11:00.240 --> 01:11:06.880
 So I think more than anyone else in the government, he is making efforts to shut down the war

01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:08.000
 system.

01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.200
 And then how does somebody like Pompeo rise to power?

01:11:11.200 --> 01:11:14.680
 The guy is a total, like, total nut.

01:11:14.680 --> 01:11:20.680
 I just listen to some of his speaking, and it's just, I know it's nothing new, but it's

01:11:20.680 --> 01:11:24.760
 like shocking to even hear him talk about his kind of machinations and things about

01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:26.920
 what's going to happen in the future.

01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:31.760
 The Armageddon crowd was in Reagan's government too.

01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:36.640
 The Interior Minister said, "The end is near.

01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:38.760
 Let's mine it all.

01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:41.080
 Get it before the end."

01:11:41.080 --> 01:11:44.800
 Well, that really seems to be the premise they're all operating on, is that the end

01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:47.520
 is coming soon and nothing matters.

01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:52.440
 So that's why maybe that validates endless war and things like that.

01:11:52.440 --> 01:11:55.320
 That's literally true of a lot of those people like Pompeo.

01:11:55.320 --> 01:11:58.760
 Yeah, I wanted to tie in health and the collapse of the empire.

01:11:58.760 --> 01:12:04.480
 I mean, barring any kind of unpredictable collapse that the powers that be inflict on

01:12:04.480 --> 01:12:11.760
 themselves, if we want the reform, so to speak, or the control collapse to come from the people,

01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:17.520
 many of them, if not most, are in such a compromised state of health that they actually fear and

01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:19.560
 often actively oppose change.

01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:22.000
 At least that's my personal impression.

01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:26.440
 Don't you think this needs to be improved before some radical social change can actually

01:12:26.440 --> 01:12:27.440
 take hold?

01:12:27.440 --> 01:12:34.400
 Yeah, that's why I emphasize biology and health thinking to get people to realize that

01:12:34.400 --> 01:12:39.600
 they're dying on this path and that they have to change something radically.

01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:45.860
 To simply save their own health, they've got to change the system, which is pumping.

01:12:45.860 --> 01:12:47.800
 It isn't carbon dioxide.

01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:54.560
 It's a thousand different toxins being pumped into the atmosphere and food supply that is

01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:59.000
 killing people, vaccines and fake foods.

01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:10.280
 I think the movie Vaxxed and the various movements against genetically modified food and so on,

01:13:10.280 --> 01:13:17.080
 that's a wedge that people can start to see their own survival and their children depending

01:13:17.080 --> 01:13:23.920
 on bringing this industrial system to some kind of safe conclusion.

01:13:23.920 --> 01:13:25.100
 Okay.

01:13:25.100 --> 01:13:30.240
 In one of your first interviews with Danny, both of you were talking about panic and organizing

01:13:30.240 --> 01:13:31.240
 the panic.

01:13:31.240 --> 01:13:32.240
 That actually might have been carried.

01:13:32.240 --> 01:13:33.480
 Oh yeah.

01:13:33.480 --> 01:13:36.160
 But I think Dr. Peter opined on that as well.

01:13:36.160 --> 01:13:42.080
 So let's say the average person on the street, you give them all this information, they say,

01:13:42.080 --> 01:13:43.560
 "Okay, I see it in my own life.

01:13:43.560 --> 01:13:44.560
 I believe you.

01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:48.520
 I do understand that the system is killing me and I'm shaking with anxiety because I

01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:49.720
 don't know what to do."

01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:52.280
 What would be your response to a person like that?

01:13:52.280 --> 01:13:53.280
 Where do they start?

01:13:53.280 --> 01:14:01.240
 I think organizing, and that's exactly where the power system exists, is any impulse towards

01:14:01.240 --> 01:14:05.360
 organization gets interrupted.

01:14:05.360 --> 01:14:11.400
 All kinds of interruptions, firing them from their jobs so they don't have access to the

01:14:11.400 --> 01:14:13.840
 same resources.

01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:16.700
 New ways of organizing have to develop.

01:14:16.700 --> 01:14:22.720
 So do you think that the cultural push in the Western world towards extreme individualism

01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:28.760
 is a thinly veiled attempt at basically implementing this isolation so that people don't trust

01:14:28.760 --> 01:14:30.880
 each other and refuse to organize?

01:14:30.880 --> 01:14:31.880
 Yeah.

01:14:31.880 --> 01:14:35.920
 That's at the heart of preventing organization.

01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:41.760
 In the 1930s, there was a religious movement called moral rearmament.

01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:49.360
 That organization still exists, but it was a Christian movement with branches still in

01:14:49.360 --> 01:14:55.680
 this country and in Europe, religious reasons why you should destroy unions.

01:14:55.680 --> 01:15:03.600
 But it applies to any kind of social progress, making change that impinges on the corporations

01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:04.600
 and banks.

01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:05.600
 Right.

01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:10.840
 But at the same time, organized religion is probably a prime example of organization,

01:15:10.840 --> 01:15:14.800
 of getting people into groups and getting them to act upon a common goal.

01:15:14.800 --> 01:15:16.560
 So it could go either way, right?

01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:22.080
 If it's in the right hands, organization can be very powerful and impetus for change.

01:15:22.080 --> 01:15:27.080
 But if it gets compromised from within by agents of the powers that be and whatnot,

01:15:27.080 --> 01:15:31.080
 then people can be duped into sort of, they think they're working towards the common good,

01:15:31.080 --> 01:15:33.760
 but in reality, they're just maintaining the status quo.

01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:39.760
 The CIA and the FBI are several stages ahead of everyone organizing.

01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:42.440
 Anything you think of, they've got it covered.

01:15:42.440 --> 01:15:49.960
 Like Occupy Wall Street, they put organizers in who helped to prevent any constructive

01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:56.720
 organizational outcome, but they had snipers on the roof ready to kill the leaders if anyone

01:15:56.720 --> 01:16:00.040
 organized something that actually led to action.

01:16:00.040 --> 01:16:01.120
 Okay.

01:16:01.120 --> 01:16:05.640
 So what would be, I mean, I'm trying to, I guess, because regular people are aware of

01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:07.000
 that as well, many of them.

01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:11.240
 So they seem to have a choice between taking the risk at organizing and participating in

01:16:11.240 --> 01:16:16.080
 a group and then this group being undermined and they're working now, they're working in

01:16:16.080 --> 01:16:22.040
 favor of the empire versus avoiding participation in a bad activity, which you have also spoken

01:16:22.040 --> 01:16:26.840
 in favor of in the past, but then not really having enough power to enact change because

01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:27.840
 they're on their own.

01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:32.200
 Where is the, is there a middle ground or would it depend every single time on the situation?

01:16:32.200 --> 01:16:36.600
 I think it will change as cultural ideas evolve.

01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:43.480
 But I think the first thing is to just start lots of organizations, two or three people

01:16:43.480 --> 01:16:50.880
 in a group deciding on possible courses of action and creating networks of just little

01:16:50.880 --> 01:17:00.160
 personal interaction groups, but linking them up and being aware that the organizations

01:17:00.160 --> 01:17:09.880
 have to stay flexible in terms of basically about a million little groups with openness

01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:13.200
 to interact with other groups on different levels.

01:17:13.200 --> 01:17:16.960
 So basically create a large number of smaller organizations that will be much harder to

01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:21.080
 subvert just because the FBI doesn't have that manpower, that much manpower.

01:17:21.080 --> 01:17:22.080
 Yeah.

01:17:22.080 --> 01:17:29.000
 They've had, I don't know, maybe a million people attending to breaking up organizations.

01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:37.240
 But if you have 2 million little groups developing, it will overwhelm their manpower advantage.

01:17:37.240 --> 01:17:42.840
 Like the communists used to say that for every actual communist party member, there were

01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:44.840
 two or three FBI agents.

01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:48.240
 Yeah, I think that's what it sounds about, right?

01:17:48.240 --> 01:17:52.840
 Well, it seems like the FBI's ability and the CIA's ability to infiltrate movements

01:17:52.840 --> 01:17:59.560
 is like co-Intel Pro and I don't know, Ruby Ridge and like promoting domestic terror and

01:17:59.560 --> 01:18:02.400
 stuff or getting people to do things they otherwise wouldn't do.

01:18:02.400 --> 01:18:06.840
 Like what was that famous quote that like the FBI is behind most terrorist attacks in

01:18:06.840 --> 01:18:08.840
 the US or something like that?

01:18:08.840 --> 01:18:13.440
 Yeah, that has been documented over and over.

01:18:13.440 --> 01:18:19.560
 The people throwing rocks in demonstrations are usually local police or FBI.

01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:20.560
 What was it?

01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:21.560
 The Ferguson rap?

01:18:21.560 --> 01:18:24.480
 I'm not quite thinking of the right place, but there were provocateurs like breaking

01:18:24.480 --> 01:18:29.680
 windows and they were flown in on planes to go like cause havoc during peaceful protests

01:18:29.680 --> 01:18:30.680
 and stuff.

01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:31.680
 So yeah.

01:18:31.680 --> 01:18:32.680
 Yeah.

01:18:32.680 --> 01:18:39.000
 And like in the Ukraine, there were snipers shooting both sides.

01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:42.720
 And then people are so politically charged that they can't kind of see the forest for

01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:43.720
 the trees.

01:18:43.720 --> 01:18:49.560
 And then it's like this bad ideology on top of the corruption and the infiltration of

01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:50.560
 both sides.

01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:52.560
 I want to talk a little bit about consciousness.

01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:55.280
 Let's finish politics.

01:18:55.280 --> 01:18:56.280
 Let's talk about consciousness.

01:18:56.280 --> 01:18:58.560
 So we're up to about two hours.

01:18:58.560 --> 01:19:00.200
 And so Ray, I don't want to keep you all day.

01:19:00.200 --> 01:19:02.440
 Let's kind of end on consciousness.

01:19:02.440 --> 01:19:05.400
 And we have like 250 people listening right now.

01:19:05.400 --> 01:19:09.480
 So Ray, Georgie, thank you so much for making this possible.

01:19:09.480 --> 01:19:11.000
 Obviously a special live stream.

01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:12.680
 So yeah, go for it, Georgie.

01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:13.680
 Yeah.

01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:15.880
 In one of your books, actually, I think it was the Mind and Tissue where you said that

01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:19.640
 consciousness at its very basis is the orienting reflex, right?

01:19:19.640 --> 01:19:24.280
 So my question relates to physiologically, what does that look like?

01:19:24.280 --> 01:19:28.040
 Because there have been a number of studies coming out recently that are saying that medicine

01:19:28.040 --> 01:19:30.640
 and neurology have been looking at consciousness the wrong way.

01:19:30.640 --> 01:19:35.040
 They're calling it the heart problem of consciousness because by analyzing the brain and all of

01:19:35.040 --> 01:19:39.320
 the interactions of the neurons, they can't possibly explain the richness of personal

01:19:39.320 --> 01:19:42.320
 experience and they call this thing qualia.

01:19:42.320 --> 01:19:46.200
 And now they're proposing that maybe it's consciousness that's fundamental and it's

01:19:46.200 --> 01:19:47.520
 a property of matter.

01:19:47.520 --> 01:19:53.040
 It just varies in terms of its complexity depending on the object or the piece of matter

01:19:53.040 --> 01:19:54.640
 that we're actually observing.

01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:59.560
 So there's an ancient Hindu proverb which says that the spirit of God sleeps in stone,

01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:02.440
 dreams in animals, and awakens in man.

01:20:02.440 --> 01:20:08.800
 So my question is, how do you see that statement that consciousness is potentially a very basic

01:20:08.800 --> 01:20:13.880
 property of matter and it's the complexity of the structure of this matter that determines

01:20:13.880 --> 01:20:16.480
 how high level of this consciousness would be?

01:20:16.480 --> 01:20:17.480
 Does that sound about right?

01:20:17.480 --> 01:20:18.480
 Yeah, exactly.

01:20:18.480 --> 01:20:24.760
 I formulated it that way in 1957, I think was the first time I said consciousness is

01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:32.120
 the organized flow of energy through matter, but I have revised it to think of consciousness

01:20:32.120 --> 01:20:34.960
 as a substance in itself.

01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:42.600
 Since substances are defined empirically, matter is defined empirically as we experience

01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:43.600
 it.

01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:47.840
 So I think it's proper to think of consciousness as a substance.

01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:56.800
 For example, the donor-acceptor molecules contributing an electron flowing through muscle

01:20:56.800 --> 01:20:58.280
 causes it to contract.

01:20:58.280 --> 01:21:06.000
 I think that same donor-acceptor relationship activates a constant oscillation of excited

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:15.920
 electrons through the neurons and between the neurons even, that it's a substance analogous

01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:24.520
 to the conductive electron bands in metal, but the electrons are existing on the soft

01:21:24.520 --> 01:21:27.880
 cytoplasmic material.

01:21:27.880 --> 01:21:37.440
 When the energy is properly activated by the oxidative acceptor function, raising electrons,

01:21:37.440 --> 01:21:44.560
 creating holes basically for electrons to flow through the properly oxidized substance,

01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:49.920
 it's like having a fire get wet when you have too many electrons.

01:21:49.920 --> 01:21:55.680
 It fills the holes and prevents the luminous function.

01:21:55.680 --> 01:21:59.400
 The perfume guy, I can't think of his name right now.

01:21:59.400 --> 01:22:00.400
 Tonini?

01:22:00.400 --> 01:22:02.560
 Was it Tonini or no?

01:22:02.560 --> 01:22:06.600
 No, a contemporary guy who was given...

01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:18.120
 Yeah, anyway, he sees odors as being resonant of the molecule, not the shape of the molecule,

01:22:18.120 --> 01:22:22.720
 but the electronic ability to resonate.

01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:27.400
 And that is going back to P.K.

01:22:27.400 --> 01:22:29.320
 Anokin, for example.

01:22:29.320 --> 01:22:42.160
 I think he saw his acceptor of action consciousness model as existing as an excited electron substance

01:22:42.160 --> 01:22:51.120
 which follows the rules of Gestalt psychology, actually space-filling material of electron

01:22:51.120 --> 01:23:02.800
 plasma, actually being what we experience, the light that we experience as red, white,

01:23:02.800 --> 01:23:04.680
 blue, green, and so on.

01:23:04.680 --> 01:23:12.400
 I think there is actually that frequency resonating in our brain tissue.

01:23:12.400 --> 01:23:20.240
 An odor, I believe the actual chemical pattern of that odor is what we experience.

01:23:20.240 --> 01:23:27.080
 The consciousness of smelling a chemical, that structure exists in space.

01:23:27.080 --> 01:23:38.200
 Each of the senses, I think, involves a certain frequency or energy level of the electrons

01:23:38.200 --> 01:23:47.800
 so that touch has a limited spatial ability.

01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:58.120
 The vision is the one that tends to be coherent at forming complexly coherent structures of

01:23:58.120 --> 01:23:59.120
 meaning.

01:23:59.120 --> 01:24:03.120
 So if I understand it correctly, as a result of metabolism, there is a directed electron

01:24:03.120 --> 01:24:05.800
 flow from food to oxygen, right?

01:24:05.800 --> 01:24:11.760
 And that donor-acceptor relationship causes the molecules in the cells to vibrate.

01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:16.160
 And if they vibrate at the same frequency, I'm guessing a certain amount of, like a minimum,

01:24:16.160 --> 01:24:20.160
 I guess a base number of neurons, if they vibrate at the same frequency, that creates

01:24:20.160 --> 01:24:24.080
 a resonance field, which is, I guess, the basis of consciousness.

01:24:24.080 --> 01:24:25.080
 And the qualia...

01:24:25.080 --> 01:24:27.080
 In one of his books, P.K.

01:24:27.080 --> 01:24:34.280
 Anokin goes through a series of articles showing that the mechanical behavior of the auditory

01:24:34.280 --> 01:24:40.680
 nerve, for example, can't carry the information that we actually experience flowing in on

01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:43.160
 the auditory nerve.

01:24:43.160 --> 01:24:52.720
 He has various arguments showing that much more information is carried per second than

01:24:52.720 --> 01:24:55.640
 nerve firing could possibly account for.

01:24:55.640 --> 01:25:01.480
 So it isn't information, it's actually the substance that we are experiencing.

01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:07.840
 So given the infinite richness of experience and the infinite richness of qualia, wouldn't

01:25:07.840 --> 01:25:12.880
 that imply that the brain cells would be capable of resonating in almost any frequency in order

01:25:12.880 --> 01:25:15.760
 to reproduce that infinite richness of reality?

01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:20.440
 I know that the frequencies have to be tuned very exactly.

01:25:20.440 --> 01:25:28.720
 And something like the psychedelics can, in effect, create new, more extensive pathways.

01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:31.440
 But I think the frequencies are all the same.

01:25:31.440 --> 01:25:35.320
 It's just lubricating new connections that become richer.

01:25:35.320 --> 01:25:40.280
 So you're saying potentially the same frequency could create the experience of the color green,

01:25:40.280 --> 01:25:44.320
 and then a different type of resonance, but with the same frequency, could create the

01:25:44.320 --> 01:25:47.560
 experience of listening to Mozart or something like that?

01:25:47.560 --> 01:25:56.800
 Yeah, the green comes in all degrees of saturation, mere green or psychedelic, full spectrum green

01:25:56.800 --> 01:25:59.160
 with meaning.

01:25:59.160 --> 01:26:09.160
 It resonates over into the feeling of religious meaning or the intensity of the meaning.

01:26:09.160 --> 01:26:13.720
 It isn't just one frequency, one meaning.

01:26:13.720 --> 01:26:19.320
 It's the intensity and saturation of that particular frequency.

01:26:19.320 --> 01:26:27.480
 And then the architectural structures built on those, so you could perceive Mozart or

01:26:27.480 --> 01:26:36.640
 Beethoven almost at the level of descriptive, rational listening, or you could have a full

01:26:36.640 --> 01:26:46.320
 energy flow, like a hi-fi consciousness where everything, all of the senses are resonating

01:26:46.320 --> 01:26:48.120
 full intensity.

01:26:48.120 --> 01:26:52.360
 So basically the range of frequencies that the brain is capable of producing is limited,

01:26:52.360 --> 01:26:54.280
 but their combination is infinite.

01:26:54.280 --> 01:26:55.280
 So that's what...

01:26:55.280 --> 01:26:56.280
 Yeah.

01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:57.280
 Okay.

01:26:57.280 --> 01:26:58.280
 Yeah.

01:26:58.280 --> 01:27:02.640
 According to En-Okon, the auditory frequencies are...

01:27:02.640 --> 01:27:12.520
 We're actually transmitting the full range of frequencies and a young person can actually

01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:19.480
 experience all the way up to 35 or 40,000 cycles per second, like a porpoise.

01:27:19.480 --> 01:27:28.120
 And those are actually tuned processes of the electrons resonating at those actual frequencies

01:27:28.120 --> 01:27:35.720
 and the frequencies of nerve firing are nothing really related to consciousness.

01:27:35.720 --> 01:27:43.320
 They are like the infrastructure of maintaining energy production and substance distribution,

01:27:43.320 --> 01:27:47.320
 but the experience is floating over the infrastructure.

01:27:47.320 --> 01:27:54.240
 So speaking of resonance, and I'm sure you're familiar with the publications of Rupert Sheldrake,

01:27:54.240 --> 01:27:59.680
 I think is his name, about the morphogenetic fields and how we are essentially tapping

01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:04.680
 into the same pool of knowledge and any single person learning enriches that pool of knowledge

01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:09.280
 and then any other person could actually tap into that and sort of get access to that new

01:28:09.280 --> 01:28:10.280
 knowledge.

01:28:10.280 --> 01:28:11.280
 So...

01:28:11.280 --> 01:28:19.400
 He's in this morphogenic tradition going all the way to Goethe and earlier, but it's the

01:28:19.400 --> 01:28:25.440
 actual living side of science, not the abstract militarist, Platonist side of science.

01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:30.040
 So if two people are resonating, so to speak, if their consciousness are resonating and

01:28:30.040 --> 01:28:34.760
 almost merging in a sense, is there a limit to the distance that these people can be separated

01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:36.200
 with in order for this to occur?

01:28:36.200 --> 01:28:40.720
 Or is this like a global universal phenomenon, no matter where these consciousness capable

01:28:40.720 --> 01:28:42.000
 pieces of matter are?

01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:45.480
 Bucharach, did you ever read any of his books?

01:28:45.480 --> 01:28:46.720
 Adria Bucharach?

01:28:46.720 --> 01:28:48.120
 I haven't.

01:28:48.120 --> 01:28:55.560
 He, I think, makes a satisfactory case for the whole Earth resonance.

01:28:55.560 --> 01:29:05.080
 I think that the communication can probably be carried on like a carrier wave on the Earth's

01:29:05.080 --> 01:29:07.600
 resonance frequencies, modulating.

01:29:07.600 --> 01:29:13.520
 I think each brain can modulate that carrier wave of the Earth's electromagnetic field.

01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:17.880
 So the Schumann resonant frequencies could potentially be those carrier waves that allow

01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:21.240
 for the unification of consciousness of organisms on Earth?

01:29:21.240 --> 01:29:22.240
 Yeah.

01:29:22.240 --> 01:29:29.760
 The Canadian psychologist who invented the God helmet, an electronic helmet that stimulated

01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:34.400
 the brain so that people had religious experiences.

01:29:34.400 --> 01:29:40.320
 He suggests that we're tapping into the planetary carrier wave.

01:29:40.320 --> 01:29:41.320
 Okay.

01:29:41.320 --> 01:29:46.040
 So since we're on the sort of like resonance of consciousness and distance, as you've written

01:29:46.040 --> 01:29:50.840
 many times about David Bohm, and I'm a great fan of his work and writings, he was writing

01:29:50.840 --> 01:29:54.800
 that it's actually a universal consciousness that we're all part of, and that there is

01:29:54.800 --> 01:30:00.360
 a guiding pilot wave/carrier wave of which all of us are minor offshoots.

01:30:00.360 --> 01:30:02.120
 I didn't hear who you said.

01:30:02.120 --> 01:30:06.000
 David Bohm, the quantum physicist.

01:30:06.000 --> 01:30:09.800
 And he was basically saying that there's two kinds of order, the implicate order and the

01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:17.040
 explicate order, and then the explicate order arises out of the infinite implicate order

01:30:17.040 --> 01:30:18.480
 in a creative manner.

01:30:18.480 --> 01:30:24.640
 And we've talked about this process of constant creation of both matter and meaning and knowledge.

01:30:24.640 --> 01:30:27.520
 How do we participate in this creative process?

01:30:27.520 --> 01:30:30.160
 Because do we also create matter ourselves?

01:30:30.160 --> 01:30:32.960
 I mean, I know the Earth does, the stars do, right?

01:30:32.960 --> 01:30:37.960
 And probably the ethereal medium of the universe itself does, but how do we participate in

01:30:37.960 --> 01:30:38.960
 that creative process?

01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:39.960
 I don't know.

01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:47.960
 David Bohm was of the opinion that we are integral to the creative process of the universe,

01:30:47.960 --> 01:30:49.920
 but unfortunately he didn't elaborate how.

01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:54.000
 Yeah, I intuit that that's true, but I don't know how either.

01:30:54.000 --> 01:31:01.560
 I think it is most closely connected to this electronic jelly substance of consciousness

01:31:01.560 --> 01:31:07.000
 or whatever is flowing through any substance according to its structure.

01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:15.680
 But N. A. Kozirev noticed that entities in the universe, stars, planets, moons, and so

01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:21.480
 on, were emitting energy in proportion to their mass, and he believed that the passage

01:31:21.480 --> 01:31:25.600
 of time was a source of energy.

01:31:25.600 --> 01:31:32.200
 That simply says that energy comes out of the system, whatever matter is.

01:31:32.200 --> 01:31:40.280
 But he didn't have all of the planets' mass accurately connected to what was known about

01:31:40.280 --> 01:31:42.640
 their emission of heat.

01:31:42.640 --> 01:31:49.240
 But just in recent years, that was about 60 years ago he wrote that, but just in recent

01:31:49.240 --> 01:31:57.920
 years the satellites have measured the emission of the outer big planets and found that there

01:31:57.920 --> 01:32:05.240
 is an anomalous energy that corresponds to the mass rather than their position from the

01:32:05.240 --> 01:32:06.240
 sun.

01:32:06.240 --> 01:32:13.200
 So it's a big confirmation of Kozirev's idea that the mere passage of time and any

01:32:13.200 --> 01:32:16.760
 mass is going to be emitting energy.

01:32:16.760 --> 01:32:22.080
 So it's like we're all a fountain of energy of some sort.

01:32:22.080 --> 01:32:25.760
 So a question on Kozirev and stars, because actually that was one of my, that was the

01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:29.440
 top question I was going to ask you tonight and you brought it up yourself.

01:32:29.440 --> 01:32:34.000
 As you know, he did a lot of experiments on measuring and creating time based on different

01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:35.000
 processes.

01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:39.420
 So dissipating process that basically emit heat, he said that they produce time and that

01:32:39.420 --> 01:32:43.560
 other processes that are sort of, you know, dropping in temperature, they can actually

01:32:43.560 --> 01:32:45.500
 accept time, they can absorb time.

01:32:45.500 --> 01:32:50.000
 So what do you think time is in terms of a physical entity?

01:32:50.000 --> 01:33:00.960
 My best guess is that Forrest Dudley was right and he described it as the neutrino sea.

01:33:00.960 --> 01:33:06.480
 At that time neutrinos were thought to have no energy, but he proposed that they do have

01:33:06.480 --> 01:33:16.520
 energy and that they associate with matter according to its mass and that nuclear, so-called

01:33:16.520 --> 01:33:24.360
 nuclear energy is converting in conventional thinking, converting mass to energy or in

01:33:24.360 --> 01:33:33.360
 this view, it's simply being through time, passing through time as a mass that allows

01:33:33.360 --> 01:33:36.960
 these neutrinos to interact.

01:33:36.960 --> 01:33:45.640
 And crystals, Forrest Dudley suggested that the crystalline structure of matter was in

01:33:45.640 --> 01:33:54.400
 some way in charge of how the neutrinos resonate, that there's a space-filling resonance of

01:33:54.400 --> 01:34:01.360
 neutrinos corresponding to the orderly arrangement of crystals that he suggested could cause

01:34:01.360 --> 01:34:05.760
 nuclear reactions to occur unpredicted.

01:34:05.760 --> 01:34:13.160
 And simultaneously with his proposing that theory, an experimental physicist named Anderson

01:34:13.160 --> 01:34:21.400
 observed that a monolayer of carbon isotopes on aluminum foil had a non-random nuclear

01:34:21.400 --> 01:34:22.400
 decay.

01:34:22.400 --> 01:34:29.680
 Dudley had predicted that sort of thing, that an orderly arrangement of matter such as a

01:34:29.680 --> 01:34:36.240
 surface would interact with the neutrino sea in a way that would draw on the energy of

01:34:36.240 --> 01:34:37.240
 the nucleus.

01:34:37.240 --> 01:34:47.800
 But anyway, my inference from those two bits of data is that the brain, this structure

01:34:47.800 --> 01:34:53.360
 of donor-acceptor activated gel of electrons.

01:34:53.360 --> 01:35:01.680
 My idea is that this structure of the brain is like the surface of the aluminum foil,

01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:11.200
 able to tap into the energy of the neutrino sea, and this is where the introduction of

01:35:11.200 --> 01:35:15.440
 novelty as well as energy comes from.

01:35:15.440 --> 01:35:16.440
 Understood.

01:35:16.440 --> 01:35:21.600
 I read an interpretation of Aristotle recently that said that, it was by a quantum physicist,

01:35:21.600 --> 01:35:25.920
 and he said that everybody has struggled with the definition of time, of what time is and

01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:27.040
 how it relates to us.

01:35:27.040 --> 01:35:29.160
 And apparently Aristotle got pretty close.

01:35:29.160 --> 01:35:32.200
 He said in one of his writings, apparently, I haven't seen the actual one, but he said

01:35:32.200 --> 01:35:37.200
 that time is simply the amount of potentiality that has converted to actuality for any given

01:35:37.200 --> 01:35:38.200
 system.

01:35:38.200 --> 01:35:39.200
 Does that sound about right?

01:35:39.200 --> 01:35:40.200
 Sounds right.

01:35:40.200 --> 01:35:42.400
 Okay, and last question related to consciousness.

01:35:42.400 --> 01:35:47.600
 If the stars are perhaps the most intense entities with the most intense metabolism,

01:35:47.600 --> 01:35:52.280
 for lack of a better word, would you say that they possess a type of consciousness, perhaps

01:35:52.280 --> 01:35:53.360
 even higher than ours?

01:35:53.360 --> 01:36:02.520
 I would think a galaxy, the streaming shape-creating forces of galaxies are probably conscious.

01:36:02.520 --> 01:36:07.400
 There's no more streaming energy through matter than a galaxy in action.

01:36:07.400 --> 01:36:15.120
 But I think our brains are rivaling the galaxies for the complexity of activated substance

01:36:15.120 --> 01:36:23.360
 that we're trying to imitate the galaxy energy with actual physical creation of substance

01:36:23.360 --> 01:36:25.960
 at the edge of the process.

01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:26.960
 That's remarkable.

01:36:26.960 --> 01:36:31.800
 I don't know if you know, but Aristotle said that in his classification, there were very

01:36:31.800 --> 01:36:33.440
 few pure actualities.

01:36:33.440 --> 01:36:38.320
 And he said that humans, galaxies, stars, and I think he mentioned one other thing,

01:36:38.320 --> 01:36:42.880
 cosmological, I'm forgetting what it is, but in his view, those were the only actualities.

01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:47.680
 So he was placing them at the same level, I'm guessing, in terms of development as you

01:36:47.680 --> 01:36:48.680
 are.

01:36:48.680 --> 01:36:49.680
 Yeah, that sounds right.

01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:50.680
 Okay.

01:36:50.680 --> 01:36:51.680
 I don't have any other questions.

01:36:51.680 --> 01:36:55.000
 Speaking of, this is neither here nor there, but have you guys, there's like a special

01:36:55.000 --> 01:37:00.800
 type of camera that's fairly new that can accurately zoom in on stars and planets.

01:37:00.800 --> 01:37:04.720
 And the footage these people are taking of the stars and planets looks literally like

01:37:04.720 --> 01:37:10.840
 nothing I've ever seen before, but they look like big balls of kind of multicolored energy.

01:37:10.840 --> 01:37:12.240
 Like that's how I would describe it.

01:37:12.240 --> 01:37:13.960
 Ray, are you familiar with that at all?

01:37:13.960 --> 01:37:14.960
 No.

01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:15.960
 I'll forward you with them.

01:37:15.960 --> 01:37:19.600
 But it's like, it's a lot of the flat earth people use it to say that NASA is lying about

01:37:19.600 --> 01:37:20.600
 everything.

01:37:20.600 --> 01:37:25.000
 But I think it's just interesting that we're actually like, just random people are able

01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:28.200
 to take a really interesting video of stars.

01:37:28.200 --> 01:37:29.200
 Okay.

01:37:29.200 --> 01:37:30.480
 So I guess we'll end it there.

01:37:30.480 --> 01:37:31.600
 Let me just read.

01:37:31.600 --> 01:37:36.800
 So Ray, I don't know if you know how it works, but people do super chats and a big group

01:37:36.800 --> 01:37:40.720
 of people have accumulated $794.

01:37:40.720 --> 01:37:44.360
 So whatever YouTube takes of that, I will forward to you, Ray.

01:37:44.360 --> 01:37:47.160
 And I appreciate you being on here and let me just read.

01:37:47.160 --> 01:37:50.040
 We won't be able to get to people's questions because that would, we would be on here for

01:37:50.040 --> 01:37:51.040
 hours.

01:37:51.040 --> 01:37:57.440
 And so Oscar Gomez, Oscar Gomez, TC, Intelligent Evolution, Anna Tanska, Intelligent Evolution,

01:37:57.440 --> 01:38:05.600
 Christina Tomaj, Matthew Riley, Matthew Riley again, Ruth Cazzo, Kirk333, Zuburg, Kirk333

01:38:05.600 --> 01:38:12.920
 again, Chris H, Harrison Ben, Gene, Philippe, Gro, KindSign, butchering that name, Matthew

01:38:12.920 --> 01:38:19.560
 Riley, Harry Burgos, Harrison Ben, Harrison Ben again, Francis Bacon Cheeseburger, Harrison

01:38:19.560 --> 01:38:28.120
 Ben, Sandy, Miss T, Roger Chair, HT, New Health, Michael, Veronica Ayala, New Health, Veronica

01:38:28.120 --> 01:38:36.040
 Ayala again, Yanny Matraskastas, Elliot Cactus, Elliot Cactus again, Huge Ray Peat Fan, Huge

01:38:36.040 --> 01:38:40.800
 Ray Peat Fan again, Milk and Honey, Milk and Honey again, Milk and Honey, multiple super

01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:41.800
 chats from Milk and Honey.

01:38:41.800 --> 01:38:42.800
 Thank you for that.

01:38:42.800 --> 01:38:43.960
 Monty did multiple super chats.

01:38:43.960 --> 01:38:44.960
 Thank you for that.

01:38:44.960 --> 01:38:46.360
 Gio, thank you for that.

01:38:46.360 --> 01:38:50.200
 Turkish Postman, I think we just got one more, DBO514.

01:38:50.200 --> 01:38:51.200
 Thank you guys so much.

01:38:51.200 --> 01:38:53.120
 I apologize for not being able to read your questions.

01:38:53.120 --> 01:38:57.800
 Georgie and I can like devote an entire episode to trying to answer these questions.

01:38:57.800 --> 01:38:59.400
 Any parting words, Ray?

01:38:59.400 --> 01:39:01.640
 Can you tell people how to obtain your newsletter?

01:39:01.640 --> 01:39:08.760
 You can email raypeatsnewsletter@gmail.com and see if you can have people come up with

01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:11.440
 ideas and create new organizations.

01:39:11.440 --> 01:39:12.440
 I love it.

01:39:12.440 --> 01:39:13.440
 I love it.

01:39:13.440 --> 01:39:14.440
 So, and then Georgie, any parting words?

01:39:14.440 --> 01:39:19.480
 A question for Dr. Peat in terms of ideas for scientific studies that he thinks are

01:39:19.480 --> 01:39:20.480
 worth replicating.

01:39:20.480 --> 01:39:22.000
 I mean, I haven't mentioned it.

01:39:22.000 --> 01:39:26.040
 I mentioned in previous podcasts with Danny, but I'm privileged enough to start being able

01:39:26.040 --> 01:39:31.280
 to make my own studies and I was thinking of doing one on essential fatty acid depletion

01:39:31.280 --> 01:39:35.640
 and trying to prove that all of the, because there's only one by the Burrs in the 1930s.

01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:40.160
 So, I'm trying to prove that really all of these symptoms of fatty acid, essential fatty

01:39:40.160 --> 01:39:44.520
 acid deficiencies that they were seeing were just deficiencies of specific nutrients and

01:39:44.520 --> 01:39:47.300
 maybe insufficient amount of calories and things like that.

01:39:47.300 --> 01:39:51.920
 Anything else, any other seminal idea that you think is really currently being twisted

01:39:51.920 --> 01:39:56.440
 and poisoning the scientific and the medical world that we can try and test and sort of

01:39:56.440 --> 01:39:57.440
 show the exact opposite?

01:39:57.440 --> 01:40:00.440
 If I think of something, I'll contact you.

01:40:00.440 --> 01:40:01.440
 Okay.

01:40:01.440 --> 01:40:02.440
 Understood.

01:40:02.440 --> 01:40:03.440
 Thank you.

01:40:03.440 --> 01:40:04.440
 Awesome.

01:40:04.440 --> 01:40:05.440
 Ray, stay on the line.

01:40:05.440 --> 01:40:06.440
 I'm going to kind of wrap things up.

01:40:06.440 --> 01:40:07.440
 Guys, thank you so much.

01:40:07.440 --> 01:40:08.440
 Like 250 people in the chat right now.

01:40:08.440 --> 01:40:09.640
 Guys, sincerely appreciate it.

01:40:09.640 --> 01:40:15.200
 Thank you so much to Ray for making this possible and just being an endless inspiration and

01:40:15.200 --> 01:40:16.640
 such a humble guy.

01:40:16.640 --> 01:40:20.440
 And I'm sure I don't, I can't speak for only for myself, but changing so many people's

01:40:20.440 --> 01:40:21.440
 lives.

01:40:21.440 --> 01:40:23.800
 Thank you so much to Gorgie for doing the show with me so often.

01:40:23.800 --> 01:40:25.560
 And this was just a special live stream.

01:40:25.560 --> 01:40:27.560
 So thank you guys so much for making this possible.

01:40:27.560 --> 01:40:29.000
 Ray, stay on the line.

01:40:29.000 --> 01:40:30.000
 We'll talk to you after.

01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:31.520
 And I'm going to wrap things up here.

01:40:31.520 --> 01:40:33.000
 Everybody, thank you so much.

01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:34.000
 We'll see you guys.

01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:35.600
 I'll see you next week, I think with Tim.

01:40:35.600 --> 01:40:36.600
 Okay, guys, take care.