WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:12.000 Hey everyone, we just got wrapped up with our last live stream, number 51 with Ray Peat, and we had tons of issues with bandwidth and the sound is kind of popping every so often. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:23.000 And so it's extremely imperfect, and so it's not up to the quality of the other streams, unfortunately. I don't even know what happened. I'm still going to try to figure it out. 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:31.000 But I still obviously wanted to release the episode. I've stitched together some of the long silences, unfortunately, that happened during the show. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:42.000 And at about 1 hour and 22 minutes and also an hour and 34 minutes, I had to stitch those together because there were long periods of silence. 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:51.000 So here it is. It's again, the quality is not amazing. And again, it's like popping throughout the whole episode, but I thought it was really excellent otherwise. 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.000 And I thought we covered a lot of new ground. So I hope you guys like it. And yeah, we'll try to do better next time. 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.000 Okay. Talk to you guys soon. And here's the episode. 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Okay. Georgi has a small window here. So guys, we're having a little bit of bandwidth problems, but we do have Mr. Raymond Peat, Mr. Georgi Dinkov. Ray, how are you? 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:21.000 Very good. 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:25.000 Georgi, how are you in your small, low bandwidth box? 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Still hanging in there, like surrounded by the National Guard. 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:42.000 Okay. So we have something to anchor this show in. And so Ray just wrote a fantastic newsletter, riffing on ideas that I hear few people talking about. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:52.000 So Ray, your newest newsletter just came out a few days ago, if I'm not wrong, but it's cumulative damage, degeneration and aging possibilities of reversal. 00:01:52.000 --> 00:02:03.000 And it had a lot to do with the heat shock protein. So that was the part I was vaguely familiar with. But maybe, I don't know, do you want to talk about just giving your motivation for writing it? 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:32.000 Oh, it's part of the general picture, how to understand biology usefully. And the reductionist, breaking it up into parts, you can have an infinite amount of that kind of knowledge and never be able to do anything with it. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:51.000 But if you are actually under the principle of how the organism works, bacteria don't have any of our ordinary analytic abilities, 00:02:51.000 --> 00:03:06.000 but they have the intelligence and computational ability that lets them redesign themselves radically to meet a challenging environment. 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:29.000 And Barbara McClintock showed that that same sort of redesigning your genome happens in plants. And it should be obvious that if bacteria and plants can radically pick themselves up and change themselves to do better in the world, 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:45.000 there's no reason why people should feel that they're weighted down by the horrible ballast of genes inherited from reptiles or whatever. 00:03:45.000 --> 00:04:02.000 And the factors of this simplifying picture are the physics of phase change, essentially what Gilbert Ling was talking about, 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:19.000 but what was a major movement early in the 20th century for understanding the origin of life and what life is in its basis. 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:38.000 And that view that life is a substance rather than an accumulation of 20,000 independent pieces of DNA, that idea of life as a substance, 00:04:38.000 --> 00:05:03.000 it can change the phase in one direction of losing energy or it can, with good luck, come back to a high energy state because all of the parts are subordinate to the flow of energy managed by the whole organism itself. 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:22.000 And you talked about, I'm going to butcher his name, Le Châtelier's principle. And so the first, I don't know if this is related, I think it's related to Barbara McClintock, but a long time ago, maybe you had said that you read a paper or there was a situation where a cave of fish, 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:39.000 fresh river fish were diverted into a cave and then over a period of time, they lost their eyes, became clear, and they basically adapted very quickly to their environment. But that's along the lines of Barbara McClintock's research, right? 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:46.000 Like inborn capacity to change given a new novel or even an inhospitable environment. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:06:05.000 - [DH] Oh yeah, the encyclopedias that I read as a kid reported those experiments. The regular mainline encyclopedias included the Lamarckist experiments. 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:31.000 And when I was in graduate school, there were still people doing experiments of that sort. Previously, they had done them with various sea organisms and plants, hybridizing plants by grafting branches to them, causing a change in the whole organism. 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:54.000 These experiments with fruit flies, since fruit flies were the main organism, the genetics dogma based itself on bacteria, single-celled organisms, and then finally fruit flies. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:14.000 Two different kinds of experiments. One fed fruit flies a very high salt diet, and they adaptively changed their cuticle so that it wasn't irritated by the flow of salt in and out. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:31.000 Their anal scales were toughened up, and putting others under a very hot artificial light caused the wing structure to thicken up and get thick veins. 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:48.000 So these were strictly first-generation adaptation to a stressful environment. Then they turned off the light and gave them a normal salt diet and cross-bred them. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:08:01.000 From then on, they could have a Mendelian-like inheritance of these traits that they had never seen before in fruit flies. 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:20.000 They sorted out generation after generation with the thickened scales and the thickened veins in their wings. I asked several of my professors about that, and the standard action was those were hidden genes. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:31.000 They were there all along, and once they expressed them, then they were able to continue expressing them. 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:52.000 But that is the scientific method genetics is based on. If it happens, then it must have already been there in these immortal genes because nothing new happens. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:17.000 So it's better than a deus ex machina. It's saying that, "Well, we knew that already. You didn't do anything except we hadn't previously expressed that gene, but it's immortal and it's always been there." 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:32.000 So to get into the bulk of your newsletter about the heat shock proteins, you start off by talking about Gilbert Ling. I flipped through his book again, and he's talking about ATP, what did he call it? The par excellence or the queen of cardinal adsorbents. 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:52.000 So that's something that's helping or critical for the electron flow or pulling electrons through the cell and doting to oxygen. ATP has to be, what's the right phrasing? Lost in the cell for this phase transition to happen? 00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:14.000 Yeah. I mentioned that it functions as a protein solvent, and so if you lower your energy and don't have the ATP binding it and keeping the cell together, some proteins come out of solution and go into a different phase. 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:27.000 So these become stress-induced organelles, but they always depend on the situation, the type of stress. 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:42.000 So the way the protein comes out of solution when the cell is de-energized is shaped by the other factors acting on the organism. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:11:06.000 The practical use of that idea is something that has been noticed ever since experiments by Szent-Györgyi that ATP has a softening, relaxing effect on isolated protein material from cells. 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:19.000 Exactly the idea of keeping everything together and in solution in the cytoplasm or the coacervate or the whole protoplasm. 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:44.000 In a fatigued muscle, for example, the muscle gets harder and harder and when it's fully energized, the cytoplasm is flexible and soft but can in a moment contract and do a maximum of work. 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:59.000 Like a fatigued heart gets harder and harder, but on stimulation it's already tight and hardened and so it can't do much more to become tighter. 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:12.000 So the ATP functionally represents the flow of energy, carbon dioxide produced from oxidizing glucose, for example. 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:34.000 The energized well-nourished cell is in a relaxed state and that has to do with insomnia, muscle cramps, all the biological functions all the way down to cancer, for example. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:55.000 Cancers can be adequately diagnosed just by their hardness. Doctors have noticed that if a lymph node is hard to the touch, it's going to look cancerous on the inside if they cut it open. 00:12:55.000 --> 00:13:21.000 But the hardness involves first the inability to relax and then the stabilization of a fibrous form of actin, one of the mobility producing proteins of any sort of cell. 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:50.000 And then the depleted energy turns on collagen synthesis and the actin, which is hardening the cell from the inside, attaches to this growing collagen produced surround and you get a system that is harder and harder the more energy depleted it is. 00:13:50.000 --> 00:14:00.000 Was Szent-Györgyi the person who did the experiments with injecting ATP into dead animals and he showed that it reverses the rigor mortis? 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:29.000 Yeah, rigor mortis is the phase change and when you get smaller degrees of that phase change, then you get chronic things like intracellular bodies that produce anything from arthritis like inflammation to dementia, formation of prions. 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:42.000 Proteins that are no longer soluble becoming the mad cow or Alzheimer's agent. 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.000 So this is happening, this precedes cellular division, correct? Like when a cell is extremely stressed out? 00:14:51.000 --> 00:15:19.000 Oh, yeah, promoting cell division is one of the alternatives and you want to lose the complex energy consuming cell functions, thought and organization and secretion, all of the fancy specialized things cost energy. 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:46.000 And to escape from whatever is causing the stress and the damage, turning off the differentiated functions and resorting to simple cell division, making new cells hoping that they will survive and overcome the environment. 00:15:46.000 --> 00:16:02.000 So the hardening process is broken free of by activating the de-differentiating cancer producing property. 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:18.000 Are you familiar with some studies published I think in the 80s showing that niacinamide is actually also a great substance for increasing solubility of pretty much anything it gets called dissolved with? 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:31.000 I saw some studies showing that if you mix niacinamide and let's say something very lipophilic like progesterone, it increases its solubility in water by a few thousand percent. 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:39.000 And then they tried a few different substances and niacinamide increased the solubility of many different proteins that weren't very soluble in water. 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:56.000 So I'm wondering if considering the similarity or the importance of niacinamide as an NAD precursor and the relationship with ATP, whether niacinamide can fill in for some of those roles that ATP has as a solubility increase. 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:22.000 Yeah, it does and it's able to stop the energy loss. It turns off some of the deranged DNA repair mechanisms and can just let the cell die peacefully rather than draining tremendous amounts of energy. 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:36.000 So it plugs the leak and that solubility thing has all degrees of visibility. 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:59.000 About 1971 or 2, I was experimenting with things like bread dough. I was making bread at the time and the relation of water retention to the bread dough is a big factor in the texture of the bread. 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:18.000 I was thinking of the bread dough as an analog for the cytoplasm and what happens when the cytoplasm is energized and relaxed or stressed and tensed up. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:34.000 I tried different stimulants and sedatives and found that the free water content of barbiturate was one thing I tried. 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:52.000 It made the dough slippery and wet because it was unable to hold the water in solution and stimulants like caffeine, which also has a solubilizing effect on other substances. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:19:08.000 It made the dough bind water and retain more water. So it could be very humid containing a lot of water and still not be wet and slippery. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:14.000 Would gelatin have some of those effects as well, increase the solubility of intracellular proteins? 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:15.000 Would which? 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.000 Gelatin. 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:36.000 It would probably depend on the starches present. One of the classical examples for studying coacervation was to make gelatin and gum arabic, a starchy molecule. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:20:03.000 They handle water in different ways according to their proportion. Gelatin is bound to run into things like RNA and polymer carbohydrates that will affect the water holding properties. 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:14.000 If I'm reading this correctly, an excess of unpaired electrons, which is what happens when metabolism is impaired, would greatly inhibit the solubility of proteins inside the cell, right? 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.000 Mm-hmm. 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:28.000 So things that accept those electrons like quinones or other oxidizing agents, they should improve the solubility of proteins and retain the gelatin-like structure of the cell. 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:47.000 Yeah, and that should involve a constant flow. When the excess electrons are being drained away quickly enough, that is the living state. 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:58.000 It should be constantly active with electrons flowing into the electron vacuum of oxygen. 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:09.000 So some of those effects of estrogen on activating the heat shock proteins and decreasing the solubility of proteins in the cell, does that have to do with the activity of estrogen as a reductant? 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:36.000 Yep. That's its molecular structure. The phenolic structure shifts the electrons away from oxidation and changes the whole water protein system so that while stopping oxygen energy production, 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:46.000 it activates the enzymes that govern glycolysis and lactic acid metabolism. 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:58.000 And the role of progesterone as an inhibitor of HSP formation, is that a direct effect or does it have more to do with the opposition of progesterone to estrogen's effects? 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:18.000 Its direct action is probably on proteins in general, not just a protein of progesterone receptor, but it is currently effective on a great variety of proteins, 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:28.000 including the cell division apparatus and motility and conductivity and so on. 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:50.000 And it is one of the things that helps the cell retain water under control, but not having the wetting property where estrogen releases water from proteins, 00:22:50.000 --> 00:23:14.000 it makes them swell up with bulk inactive or glycolysis-supporting water. Progesterone causes the water to be bound into a solution with the proteins and excludes the pre-bulk water. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:32.000 Maybe we'll back up just a second here. People in the health world, they say you should activate these heat shock proteins to sit in a sauna for hours or something, and these help a person resist stress. How do you see that? 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:52.000 That's true that they will help a cell survive partial cooking and so on. That's where the whole idea of them being strictly beneficial, that they do help survival of terrible conditions, 00:23:52.000 --> 00:24:12.000 like being poisoned by germs or cooked by excess heat or starved by energy depletion. But the drug companies are among the first to become aware that that process, 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:27.000 de-energizing cells, turning them towards the lactic acid, cancer-like or stress-like metabolism, that the whole energy of the cell goes down. 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:47.000 As the life of the cell is saved by the heat shock proteins, its energy tends to revert to that simple cancer metabolism that loses the basic function of what the organism was trying to do. 00:24:47.000 --> 00:25:09.000 So the drug companies are producing chemicals that they hope will be non-toxic that will reverse the process, knock out the heat shock proteins and restore cells, bringing them back from the cancer or stress metabolism. 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:20.000 I might have not clipped it out of your newsletter, but didn't you say that the activation of the system, it was kind of like you'll never – I know there's a sticky statement, but you'll never be the same again? 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:35.000 Like you'll have stepped backward and the heat shock proteins will basically leave some kind of scar that the ability to generate energy won't ever be like it was before that activation? Does that make any sense? 00:25:35.000 --> 00:26:04.000 That's the general line of aging. It's like a ratchet that keeps you alive for the moment, but each time it is called on for that short-term survival, it reduces your flexibility just like a scar. It plugs a hole, but it limits function. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:30.000 If you get your attention on the whole coacervate-like quality of the organism, getting rid of that high quantity of heat shock proteins at the same time that you're energizing the whole cell, 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:54.000 and it happens that progesterone has many layers of functions blocking and reverting away from the heat shock state and activating the right kind of energy production, suppressing lactic acid metabolism, 00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:06.000 antagonizing estrogen, blocking collagen production, all of the levels happen to be touched on by progesterone. 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:26.000 I wanted to make a point that you mentioned the heat shock protein 70 and the involvement of estrogen and nitric oxide in activating it, but there are a lot of studies showing that the hypothalamus pituitary adrenal axis is actually just as potent in cortisol specifically. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:37.000 Not only it increases the production of this protein, but actually that protein is required for cortisol to bind to its receptor and cause all the downstream effects that exist. 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:46.000 It seems that any type of stress, not just heat, is capable of activating or increasing the synthesis of these heat shock proteins. 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:49.000 De-energizing the cell. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:57.000 Exactly. So I guess it's a bit of a misnomer to call them heat shock proteins. They're more like stress shock proteins or just shock proteins in general. 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:08.000 Yeah. They block the disorganizing factors that come from everything that de-energizes the cell. 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:24.000 So if I understand correctly, any event that the organism is exposed to that demands production of energy to deal with, which is really any event in life, if the energy production is not sufficient to meet the demand, then the heat shock proteins will get activated. 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:32.000 So in other words, aging occurs every time there is a demand on us placed by the environment that we cannot meet up energetically. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:52.000 Yep. And if you pay attention during stress, you can learn to see the taste in your mouth and the odor of expired air through your nose, for example. 00:28:52.000 --> 00:29:07.000 You can tell when the energy supply is under stress and basically aging is happening when you see these signs. 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:26.000 For example, if you stay in a hot bath too long, you start getting weak and feeling stress. And at an extreme, you can get a metallic taste in your mouth and a dry, odd odor in your exhaled breath. 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:37.000 And you realize that if you have a pint of orange juice or so, you can stop those processes and get things working again. 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:46.000 What's that metallic taste in the mouth due to? Is it truly because there's some metal that's getting unbound from cells? 00:29:46.000 --> 00:30:01.000 No, it's just lipid peroxidation. When the free fatty acids reach a certain point, anything available as a catalyst will start lipid peroxidation. 00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:12.000 And since metals cause it, we associate that taste with metals. But you don't need the metal because it's the lipid peroxides you're tasting. 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:19.000 So if your breath starts smelling like ketones or ammonia, all of these are also signs that you've overstressed yourself. 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:33.000 We already talked about estrogen increasing the heat shock proteins. Just going back to an old email that you and I had, Ray, you said, "Estrogen, hyperventilation, lactate, etc. increases serotonin." 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:39.000 I think it's serotonin that directly increases parathyroid hormone, and then parathyroid hormone increases nitric oxide. 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:46.000 So the heat shock proteins are just happening under all of that. Is that right? Or is it more of a secondary messenger type of situation? 00:30:46.000 --> 00:31:15.000 Yeah. There are so many of these pathways towards death. Each pathway gives you mental confirmation, but the fact is they're all happening at the same time because it isn't being run by a cascade of signals acting on receptors. 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.000 It's the phase change that's happening. 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:24.000 Like a phase change of the entire organism mediated by each cell? 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.000 Mm-hmm. 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:39.000 And that coacervate, that's like a mini cancer? The cell is no longer a whole and it's kind of dividing up into subgroups? Is that the way you see it? 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:53.000 It's part of normal adaptation for the cytoplasm to differentiate according to challenge. 00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:07.000 But when the de-energizing is extreme, you get things like the prions forms that can start real degeneration, cancer, and dementia, and so on. 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:22.000 But ordinarily, any little pressure can cause the quality of the coacervate to change accordingly and usefully. 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:46.000 And that's what's happening when bacteria do the reorganization of their genes. It isn't that they have a messenger service that has the address of the genes that they send in after having computed which gene they need to meet the environmental stress. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:33:04.000 But it's that the whole system is such that the genetic resources are always in touch with the problem situation. 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:17.000 And so the phase change occurs according to a schedule of real-world probability. 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:30.000 And those small perturbations are really like the organism's holistic way of doing calculations. 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:43.000 And during that process, the cell would be especially susceptible to vaccine or viral RNA, polyethylene glycol, carrageenan, etc.? 00:33:43.000 --> 00:34:09.000 Yeah, the fatigued state is a degree of the inflamed state. And one of the deranged things related to the genetic causation doctrine is the idea of the cell surface membrane as being a barrier. 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:23.000 But if you think of it being nothing but the end of the coacervate of the cell and the beginning of the extracellular world, 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:40.000 the state of energy of the coacervate or the degree of water protein solubility of the cell as a whole, 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:57.000 the barrier function on the microscopic level that Gilbert Ling talks about, it's a phase governed selectivity, not a pore governed. 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:15.000 The idea that you can let in a small, moderately water-free potassium ions to the energized cell and exclude the hydrated, bigger sodium ions, 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:34.000 that's the idea that there is a barrier. But the drug companies have taken advantage of that and convinced researchers to get certain drugs or big molecules in the cells. 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:56.000 They need to buy a certain delivery or targeting molecule like the vaccine, the current RNA vaccine has lipids that are actually functioning as inflammation promoting adjuvants. 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:18.000 But they're being advertised as delivery agents for the nucleic acid as supposedly the strip of RNA is so big it can't get across the barrier membrane unless it's enclosed in these targeting specific lipids. 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:42.000 But when one group of researchers was genetically modifying cells, they would buy the targeting agent and put their stretch of a big DNA molecule into this targeting lipid. 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:57.000 And as a control for how successful the genetic change was taking up the targeted DNA, they introduced bare naked stretches of the same DNA. 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:20.000 And they found they went into cells even easier than the targeted piece of DNA. The cells, ordinary cells can take up or dissolve DNA from the environment. 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:37.000 So what you eat, a certain amount of the DNA is getting into your lymphatic and blood circulation and cells have the option of taking up whole genetic stretches of information. 00:37:37.000 --> 00:38:04.000 If the cell judges it, it can be helpful. So the idea of the cell state, the inflammatory state, it's really the cell that is already stressed, de-energized, and inflamed is an obvious target for a virus. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:22.000 The virus doesn't have to necessarily have clever attaching machinery and enzymes. It can just fall into a weakened cell just because the cell is relatively water soluble. 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.000 You've described that before as just a general leakiness, correct? 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:27.000 Yeah. 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:35.000 And in your newsletter you say the drug companies are creating a variety of heat shock protein inhibitors and you said that also before. 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:43.000 But I imagine minocycline or the tetracyclines in general and progesterone, those are drugs that already exist that probably do that, right? 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:45.000 Yeah. 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:55.000 Methylene blue is also another extremely potent one specifically for heat shock protein 70. 00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:23.000 Thanks for that, Georgi. Ray, I don't know how related this question is, but the idea of incorporating things like milk and cheese and vitamin D and vitamin K to lower parathyroid hormone, do you see that as a newer part of the system and thus suppressing it can help turn off a lot of these older aspects of the system like the prolactin, the serotonin, etc.? 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:43.000 Well, there are different layers and probably most important to an organism with a big skeleton, but I think analogs of parathyroid hormone go way back in the different evolutionary levels. 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:57.000 I don't remember where it starts, but I think it's something analogous is a very early part of the systems. 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:07.000 But the parathyroid glands being, I mean, you correct me, but in such close proximity to the thyroid, did that mean they evolved at the same time? 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:24.000 Not necessarily, but probably. They have very contrary functions and so maybe it's like being close so they know what each other is doing. 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:36.000 And then a similar question, but the renin-angiotensin system, is that even more ancient than our hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis? 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:54.000 I think it is. Those are things you can look up. The phylogeny of hormones. A lot of people have seen how far back you can find the molecule. 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:58.000 Great stuff. I was going to do an advertisement. Georgi, unless you have some questions? 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.000 No, keep going. 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:12.000 Okay, so we jumped right into it, but I just wanted to say that we are reading from Ray Peat's newsletter. And so Ray, can you just let everybody know how they can obtain your newsletter? 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:29.000 Oh, raypeatsnewsletter@gmail.com. They can give you information. It's $28 for 12 issues over two years. 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:38.000 And then the same situation for your books. So you can email that same address. When you looked at these prices, were those right for the digital copies? 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:44.000 No, I think it's much lower for the digital. I don't remember how much it is. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:52.000 That's what I thought. So you can get Ray's books in a digital format. And then I wanted to talk about Progest-E from Kenogen. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:01.000 And so this is the Progestrone I've been using for a long, long time. I email Catherine at Kenogen@gmail.com. 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:08.000 And Ray, you had mentioned to other people that you thought you were confident in this product. Is there anything you want to say about it? 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:27.000 Oh, I've used it for 45 years or so myself after researching it in animals. But I finally got interested in how people could use it. 00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:43.000 And so I experimented with what the safe and effective solvents were. And that was how I came up with the Progest-E complex formula in the 1970s. 00:42:43.000 --> 00:43:07.000 And I tried it out on all my friends and pets and such. Like roommates, a pet rabbit had a brain tumor and had reached the point that it couldn't hop, couldn't stay standing up if it tried to hop. 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:20.000 And when I was blind, the vet had said it was beyond help, couldn't even do its basic functions. 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:36.000 And so my friend said, "Okay, try your Progesterone." And I rubbed the oily solution on the relatively bare skin inside both of its ears. 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:54.000 So it was really a huge dose because of the size of the ears. And I had tried setting it up and previously it had just fallen over. 00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:07.000 This time it fell over and went into a deep sleep. I came back two or three hours later and my friend thought I had killed the rabbit. It was so stretched out and relaxed. 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:34.000 But when I approached it, it leaped to its feet like a new rabbit. And the first thing it did was to hop straight ahead and came to a wall and stopped and copiously urinated. 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:49.000 And apparently it was unloading some large amount of water that had been causing swelling and pressure and so on. 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:59.000 And after that it could hop and do everything rabbits normally do, turn corners quickly and so on. 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:07.000 I have a picture, I think it's from Hans Selye's 1947 Textbook of Endocrinology. Was that the name of it? 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:14.000 Anyways, it's the one that you talked about where the guy has the rat and he's picked it up and he thinks it's dead. 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:19.000 But it's just really, really, really relaxed. And so exactly what you said about the rabbit. 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.000 Yeah, it looks like a wet dish right now. 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.000 Yeah, exactly. 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:32.000 I have a question. Why would progesterone be able to fill in for the function of the adrenal glands that were removed but pregnenolone wouldn't? 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:46.000 I think Selye's experiment showed that maybe about 20% of the rats would survive if you give them pregnenolone compared to like 100% if you inject them with cortisone and maybe 80% if you inject them with progesterone. 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:52.000 But pregnenolone didn't have that adrenocortical effect. 00:45:52.000 --> 00:46:01.000 Yeah, Hans Selye showed that each of the steroids has a range of properties. 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:29.000 And aldosterone has its estrogen resembling and anti-androgenic properties. Each one has a range. And it just turns out that progesterone will fill in for a deficiency of aldosterone or cortisol or androgen. 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:50.000 But it will also protect against an excess toxic dose of those same things because it has a weak mineralocorticoid effect that makes up for the absence of aldosterone as well as toxic excess. 00:46:50.000 --> 00:47:04.000 And the same thing, testosterone has progesterone sustaining pregnancy sustaining effects if you give it to a pregnant animal. 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:22.000 But it's not nearly as effective at that purpose as progesterone is. And the estrogen is the thing that it's strictly antagonistic to. 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:36.000 It will have some of the anti-inflammatory properties of cortisol as well as being a major protector against excess cortisol poisoning. 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:46.000 And it does a lot of those things on the enzyme level as well as the so-called receptor level. 00:47:46.000 --> 00:48:08.000 When you look at the list of its actions, coordinated effects on both receptors of all sorts and enzyme activation changes, you would think it was a magical invention. 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:13.000 It's so extremely complex but organized. 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:25.000 And I mean judging from the studies, the few studies that have been done on pregnenolone in comparison to progesterone, the pregnenolone seems to have more of a structure stabilizing effect, not so much hormonal effect. Is that right? 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:30.000 Yeah, I think that's true of both pregnenolone and progesterone. 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:48.000 I don't think of either of them as a hormone. And the FDA, at least for 50 years, classified pregnenolone as a non-hormonal steroid. 00:48:48.000 --> 00:49:05.000 I include progesterone in that category, non-hormonal, because when you look at everything it's doing, it's stabilizing the energy and structural systems. 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:15.000 Stabilization is so different from hormonal excitation and activation. It just doesn't fit the word. 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:23.000 So maybe we should classify the steroids into pro- and anti-metabolic lipids, right? Because they are lipids after all. 00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:25.000 Yeah. 00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:40.000 I want to talk about androgens actually, but one last question about progesterone. If somebody has a very sensitive stomach but they want to take it orally, have there been any ways that you've found that can get a person around that and maybe not irritate them? 00:49:40.000 --> 00:50:00.000 Yeah, a large amount of vitamin E taken orally. If you have a sensitive gallbladder or something, that sticky oil creates nausea, gagging, all kinds of digestive reactions. 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:12.000 But if you mix it with butter, for example, and take it with a baked potato or some food, you don't even notice it. 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:18.000 Good stuff. Okay, so Georgi and I, the last two weeks, have been talking about DHT. 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:30.000 And then somebody emailed me and left a few comments saying we were taking you out of context. And so I had to go back and listen to some of our previous conversations. 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:41.000 And there was one that I never really listened to again because the audio quality was so bad. But you were explicitly clear, Ray, in your thoughts about DHT. 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:54.000 And I won't read the whole quote, but it's like, in general, things like that are not to be messed with unless you have a very specific knowledge of a deficiency because if you take a little too much, any of those defining feature-creating hormones can change the whole system in an unpredictable way. 00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:20.000 Yeah, everything you do practically changes a million things about the organism. And the known effects, if someone is dying of cancer, obviously you don't worry about what it's going to do to their sex life in five years. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:34.000 So again, just your general thoughts and your experience. I talked to a lot of guys, obviously, that have taken finasteride and feel like they're really never going to be the same again. 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:51.000 And then also I talked to a lot of people with gynecomastia. And so again, given that they're exploring thyroid, vitamin D, good nutrition, bowel disinfectants and things, where do you think either testosterone or DHT can play a helpful role? 00:51:51.000 --> 00:52:17.000 If you see the problem as energy depletion and inflammation, that sort of change, then you will take into account thyroid, carbon dioxide, glucose, the balance of amino acids in your proteins, 00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:42.000 cutting proteins that contain methionine, cysteine and tryptophan, supplementing instead some gelatin, all of the anti-inflammatory things and aspirin, coffee or caffeine and progesterone are very effective stabilizing, 00:52:42.000 --> 00:53:08.000 energy restoring, anti-inflammatory things that help all of those. But I think it's important to think of those as a deviation from the proper functions of the organism and look to restoring the energized, 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:22.000 uninflamed but purposeful processes of the organism. And a lot of that is getting your attention away from the medicalization. 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:44.000 People can get so interested in that particular problem, the finasteride syndrome or post-traumatic stress disorder, for example, that they forget what it is they're doing in their life. 00:53:44.000 --> 00:54:09.000 And if they can get the sense of excitement and play as a governing principle of their activities and start imagining the constructive anti-inflammatory energy restoring things, 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:23.000 rather than trying to work out the thousands of details of what particular substance would be most effective. 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:46.000 So you're saying that since the ceiling on even something like coffee or aspirin or other anti-inflammatory therapies in a person's life, like a person could find, it could take a long time to find the right dose of aspirin, you know, and that should be explored before trying something testosterone or DHT? 00:54:46.000 --> 00:55:07.000 Oh, yeah, but in conjunction with adequate sugar and the right protein and mixed nutrition and feeling out the effects of what the aspirin is doing, 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:29.000 because those hormonal effects are leaving the estrogen excitatory process in your brain, for example, to dominate and that tends to create an obsessive process in the brain where the others, 00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:40.000 when you lose interest in your particular health problem, you're probably on the right track. 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:54.000 I guess one question for me, if a male were to use any of the endpoint androgens, let's say they have a severe deficiency of androgens and they tried to correct it, they couldn't. 00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:06.000 And if they're at the point of using, let's say, testosterone, my question is, wouldn't it be less risky to use the DHT given its non-ability to turn into estrogen? 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:21.000 Yeah, definitely. You know, there are clinics going up around the country selling testosterone treatments and the doses they give are ridiculous. 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:38.000 Fifty or a hundred milligrams at a time, for example, where a healthy young male makes maybe four or five milligrams a day and maybe 10 or 15 milligrams of DHEA per day. 00:56:38.000 --> 00:57:03.000 If you take, for example, one milligram of DHT and back it up with a few milligrams of DHEA and progesterone, aspirin, coffee, steady supply of sugar and related nutrients, 00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:12.000 then the DHT is more likely to have a constructive repairing role. 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:23.000 Well, I will let the cat out of the bag a little bit. So I've been experimenting a little bit with DHT and I would say, and I'm not above the idea that it could be harmful in the long run, 00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:31.000 but it definitely seems to have a neutralizing effect on the nervous system. And so would… 00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:37.000 Yeah, anti-inflammatory is what it's doing beneficially. 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:44.000 In my experience, nothing terminates a severe stress reaction for me like a few milligrams of DHT. 00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:50.000 But my experience is that it's not something that can be used on an ongoing basis without interruption. 00:57:50.000 --> 00:58:01.000 It's more like the emergency fix when you're really in trouble and you don't feel like taking three grams of aspirin or you don't have them with you. 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:05.000 The DHT works in minutes like a charm. 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:12.000 But, Ray, I definitely don't want to mischaracterize. You're saying there's a hundred other things to check before doing that, right? 00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:28.000 Yeah, just because it makes you feel so good that you're going to get stuck on that if you don't fix the whole energy system that started the whole process. 00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:33.000 Yeah, that's definitely in the back of my brain that there's something else that needs correction. 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:41.000 So speaking of aspirin, something I was interested in, what do you consider a max dose of aspirin at a single time? 00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:49.000 For example, I know when I've tried a gram or two grams, it seems to have a hypoglycemic effect after a while. 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:54.000 So is there an amount that you feel comfortable with taking at one time? 00:58:54.000 --> 00:59:06.000 I have taken as much as a gram, but you have to be familiar with it. 00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:16.000 I think usually 300 to 500 milligrams at a time with food is safe and comfortable. 00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:22.000 And you can repeat that amount usually very safely. 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:26.000 Good stuff, Georgi. Interrupt me at any time. I was just going to go through these questions. 00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:30.000 And then, you know, we have a bunch of reader questions, too, so we can go into them. 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:42.000 I just wanted to expand on the hypoglycemic effect. In higher doses, aspirin depletes the amino acid L-carnitine and starts to work very similarly to the drug Meldonium. 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:49.000 So if you take more than, I don't know, I guess it depends for each person, but I think over a gram or two grams, 00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:56.000 it basically inhibits significantly the oxidation of fat to cause a drop in blood sugar. 00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:00.000 So I would certainly take it with something sweet if you're taking higher doses. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:03.000 Yeah, that sounds good. Great stuff. 01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:14.000 OK, so a few days ago I posted on my Instagram about mushrooms and then I was instantly I got a lot of questions about agaritine and I couldn't answer them. 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:21.000 So I thought I might ask you. But anyways, what exactly is happening to the agaritine? 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:29.000 Because maybe in an older email from a few years ago, you sent somebody something that said it was like changed from not being harmful to maybe being helpful. 01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:35.000 But it's entirely possible that I misinterpreted what you said to him. 01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:39.000 No, I don't remember what I said. 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:46.000 But OK, so when you're cooking the mushrooms for three hours, are you getting rid of the agaritine like it's escaping in the cooking process? 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:56.000 Yeah, either it's turned into something very different or just vaporizes. 01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:04.000 And then a lot of people, and again, I know you've talked about this already, but the water doesn't contain the agaritine after a few hours. 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:06.000 No. 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:07.000 OK. 01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:14.000 Looking at the structure, it looks like it will be highly estrogenic, that agaritine thing. 01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:22.000 Have you seen something on that, Ray, if it has any estrogenic effects aside from being labeled as a carcinogen? 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:26.000 No, no, I haven't. 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:33.000 And speaking of fungus, Ray, is there any way to distinguish between a fungal and bacterial infection? 01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:37.000 Because from what I've read, they seem extremely similar. 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:54.000 Fungus is a nucleated cell that works so much like a human cell that the poisons they have for treating them happen to knock out our own mitochondria, 01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:01.000 because they're generally intended to knock out the fungus mitochondrion energy system. 01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:16.000 And so the people who are convinced they have systemic fungal infection will take those toxic drugs for a long time and get worse and worse 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:25.000 and think it's the fungus that's responsible and it's really the drug knocking out their mitochondria. 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:38.000 And bacterial infections, if they reach your bloodstream, they can quickly become deadly, 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:51.000 and a good strong dose of antibiotics gets into your bloodstream and will take care of systemic bacterial infection. 01:02:51.000 --> 01:03:02.000 But once a fungus actually gets in your bloodstream, I think a person might have something like a week to live 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:10.000 because there are no really effective safe drugs once you have an actual systemic fungal infection. 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:20.000 It can linger in your lungs but not getting in your bloodstream, so it can damage the lungs over a period of years. 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:28.000 But if it was actually a systemic infection, like many people are told that Candida does, 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:34.000 but that's all just selling treatment that goes on forever. 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:41.000 What would be some signs/symptoms of having a, starting to develop a systemic fungal infection? 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:58.000 Oh, extreme sickness. It grows so fast because it has everything it needs in the blood 01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:13.000 and there's no good immune defense once it gets in the bloodstream. 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:28.000 People with a very weak immune system can live for years with it thriving in their small intestine and even stomach 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:38.000 so that yeast can grow high enough up that you can make alcohol when you eat carbohydrate 01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:50.000 because the yeast will ferment it right in your stomach and small intestine, but that isn't reaching the bloodstream. 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:55.000 So for people with this intestinally bound fungal infection, what is it that they can do? 01:04:55.000 --> 01:05:01.000 I mean, should they be taking the drug or are there nutritive options? 01:05:01.000 --> 01:05:12.000 One thing is not to starve the yeast because if you know what happens if you've baked bread, 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:22.000 when the yeast runs out of sugar from breaking down starch, it starts attacking the proteins 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:27.000 and you get a very stinky batch of dough. 01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:35.000 And that same thing happens that the yeast that starved for sugar changes radically 01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.000 and becomes very invasive and toxic and destructive. 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:54.000 So not taking the very popular no sugar diet approach, fiber to accelerate your intestine, 01:05:54.000 --> 01:06:07.000 accelerate to improve the acid production and enzyme production and peristalsis stimulated by fiber in the diet 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:21.000 will increase the resistance to the growth of the fungus and should eventually over a period of several days 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:25.000 clean out and disinfect your small intestine. 01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.000 What about things like coconut oil? 01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:42.000 Yeah, the oils, coconut or olive oil are both bacteria killing and fungicide. 01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:52.000 And some people have used olive oil doses for H. pylori in their stomach, for example, 01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:57.000 but it also helps to suppress it in the small intestine. 01:06:57.000 --> 01:07:03.000 That's the idea of having a little bit of it with shredded carrot. 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:14.000 The carrot itself has some antifungal ingredients and combined with a touch of vinegar and olive oil, 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:19.000 it's disinfecting your intestine while stimulating it. 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:23.000 Is there any specific fatty acid in olive oil that's responsible for this 01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:27.000 or some of the other components that are present in the actual olive fruit? 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:35.000 All of the saturated fatty acids are fairly germicidal. 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:39.000 I just forgot what I was going to say. 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:50.000 I was going to ask you about the olive oil, but you think, would you like prefer that over coconut oil for kind of a disinfectant effect, right? 01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:52.000 I think I would. 01:07:52.000 --> 01:08:01.000 And so even with the daily keeping the PUFA as low as possible, it would be worth it to find a very pure olive oil to use every day, 01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:03.000 maybe on the mushrooms or the carrot? 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:08.000 Yeah, and it tastes the best too. 01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:14.000 The FDA or Department of Agriculture years ago did a survey and found, 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:24.000 I think it was 70% of the olive oil sold in the US was fraudulent, contaminated with canola or some other oil. 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:30.000 How much olive oil are we talking here? Like a fourth of a teaspoon or something? 01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:39.000 Oh, yeah, half a teaspoon is okay. It just gives you a trace of PUFA. 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:51.000 The question I forgot was, from what I gather from what you're saying, is that a fungal infection is going to be a lot more rare than just a bacterial infection. Is that right? 01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:58.000 Yeah. Once it gets into your tissues like the lungs or the skin or toenails, 01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:10.000 it's very hard to get rid of because it's so closely structurally and functionally similar to human cells. 01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:15.000 And then one last question, then we can move on to reader or viewer questions. 01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:17.000 I have one related as well. 01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:19.000 Go ahead. 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:24.000 You mentioned H. pylori. That's pretty common in low thyroid people. 01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:29.000 And so in addition to the vitamin D and getting in the carrot salad or the mushrooms, 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:37.000 I think maybe you specifically identified tetracycline and a, maybe you said a macrolide and a penicillin. 01:09:37.000 --> 01:09:41.000 You thought that was kind of a useful therapy for that? 01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:45.000 All of those have been tried and proven effective. 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.000 For like two or three weeks, not just taking it for a few days? 01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:51.000 Yeah, just to be sure. 01:09:51.000 --> 01:10:01.000 And then a question, I'm sorry, the question I get all the time is like in, I had gathered a bunch of your responses of how you used antibiotics yourself. 01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:08.000 And so you had mentioned, oh, in the past, I'd use it for a day or two until the symptom was gone. 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:15.000 But if somebody has like an outright infection, that might not be long enough to get rid of the infection. 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:30.000 If you are watching the symptoms of the infection, the first dose you take, like 250 milligrams of penicillin, 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:35.000 you might not feel anything. Take another dose four hours later. 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:45.000 And at some point, a second or third dose, you usually feel a sudden subsiding of the symptoms. 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:53.000 And with the third or fourth dose, the symptoms of the infection are often gone. 01:10:53.000 --> 01:11:08.000 But I think it's a good idea to taper off, take them maybe at eight hours interval for the next day or so. 01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.000 Sorry to interrupt, go ahead. 01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:19.000 Just making sure that the symptoms are noticeably subsiding and then disappearing and that they don't come back. 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:25.000 Like chronic gas or diarrhea or things like that, that would be more of a serious type of that. 01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:33.000 A person could guess they probably had something worse than just a mild endotoxin problem or something like that. 01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:39.000 Yeah. If it's a fungus producing gas, the penicillin isn't going to do much. 01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:50.000 And flowers of sulfur and fibers and thyroid are the way to get your digestive system active. 01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:56.000 The flowers of sulfur are turned by fungus. 01:11:56.000 --> 01:12:12.000 They have exoenzymes that act to reduce the sulfane form of the sulfur producing hydrogen sulfide, which is toxic to them. 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:17.000 So they produce their own toxic form of sulfur, but it's local. 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:28.000 And you might for a few hours, you might smell like hydrogen sulfide if you have a lot of fungus. 01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:32.000 But that's what's killing the fungus. 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:40.000 And so it's a very safe way to get rid of intestinal fungus. 01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:43.000 A couple of questions in regards to antibiotics. 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:50.000 As you know, Ray, most doctors, if they put you on antibiotics, they'll say you have to take it for two weeks or ten days or two weeks. 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:52.000 Usually it's about two weeks. 01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:56.000 Is there any good evidence behind the recommendation or is it purely ideological? 01:12:56.000 --> 01:13:21.000 A few studies found that the infection could linger and that there would be spores that if you stopped it after four or five days, whenever the symptoms were gone, the spores could germinate after ten days or so. 01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:31.000 And so what they're doing is killing the second infection with the first prescription. 01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:44.000 They're just taking account of the possibilities of the spore being a return of the infection. 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:51.000 Okay, and related to that, antibiotic resistance, which has been blown out of proportion in my opinion. 01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:52.000 It's a huge topic right now. 01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:56.000 Everybody's working on the latest and greatest, newest antibiotic. 01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:04.000 How much truth do you think there is to that, that if you use an antibiotic repeatedly, the bacteria will become resistant to it and it will no longer be effective? 01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:10.000 On a population basis, that happens. 01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:15.000 That's where the resistant bacteria come from. 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:23.000 Hospitals do it so consistently they breed their own toxic resistant strain. 01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:28.000 But one person, it just doesn't happen. 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:43.000 And then what about the claims that if you use antibiotics, even sporadically but continuously, you will eventually give yourself a fungal overgrowth because the fungus is opportunistic and when you kill off the bacteria, the fungus will take over. 01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:45.000 Is there any truth to that? 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:53.000 Yeah, that famously happens with the heavy two-week program that's so commonly prescribed. 01:14:53.000 --> 01:15:18.000 They can really sterilize your intestine, but without paying attention to your hormones that govern the digestive enzymes, a sterile intestine, which isn't digesting properly, is a good place for fungus to take root. 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:45.000 So you want to make sure if you really sterilize your intestine that you're taking into account the things that will restore secretion of stomach acid, pancreatic enzymes, and mucous production, everything that takes energy to produce. 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:58.000 So would it be a good idea then if somebody's using antibiotics just to throw in a bit of flowers of sulfur just in case, just not to give the fungus the opportunity to immediately overgrow? 01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:05.000 If they're going to take such a gigantic dose as doctors usually prescribe. 01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:15.000 Okay. And then specifically to the tetracycline family of antibiotics, all of these molecules are quinones and all quinones have antifungal effect as well. 01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:22.000 Would those be – do you think that may be true of the tetracyclines? I'm just going by – 01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:39.000 Yeah, I think it's even used in trees and such for fungal infections. And at the same time, it's anti-inflammatory and inflammation predisposes to all kinds of infection. 01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:49.000 And so the tetracyclines, I think their major effect might be the anti-inflammation. 01:16:49.000 --> 01:17:14.000 The medical world reacted to the suggestion that azithromycin was part of the proper treatment for the COVID virus because they saw it as a bacteria killer, not a virus killer. 01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:23.000 But its anti-inflammatory effect is very powerful at knocking out the symptoms of the virus infection. 01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:33.000 And by knocking out the symptoms of inflammation, that in itself creates a resistance to the virus getting into your cells. 01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:44.000 Okay. And again, another question specific to the tetracyclines. Is there anything inherently irritating in those molecules that can irritate the intestinal tract for some people? 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:49.000 Because I know some people react really badly to specifically those type of antibiotics. 01:17:49.000 --> 01:17:57.000 Yeah, any reaction that you have, you should stop taking that one. 01:17:57.000 --> 01:18:08.000 Okay. And specifically for minocycline, I think you mentioned to Danny once that it may inhibit the thyroid via what mechanism? 01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:31.000 I'm not sure, but lots of people get very uncomfortable on just a moderate dose of minocycline, even though it's theoretically very good and is being used to treat dementia and so on because of its anti-inflammatory effects. 01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:40.000 But some people just have to be very watchful that it doesn't do something they don't like. 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:45.000 Can you go into that a little bit more because I feel like I've definitely experienced that. 01:18:45.000 --> 01:19:05.000 I don't know what causes it exactly, but I've had bad reactions to different antibiotics that it could have just been a batch effect or it could be a peculiarity of my system. 01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:15.000 I don't know of any studies that explain why people have those bad reactions. 01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:27.000 This is kind of related, but sometimes when I would take like 50 milligrams of minocycline or something, I'd feel profoundly – I think Georgi just said this – but I feel like I was hypothyroid. 01:19:27.000 --> 01:19:33.000 It made me hypothyroid, but it would also mitigate a stomach problem. 01:19:33.000 --> 01:19:52.000 And so I would hypothesize like, "Oh, maybe it lowered nitric oxide or it lowered some stress hormone or something that was keeping my structure together and lowering it made me kind of look ugly while also actually lowering the inflammation in my intestine." 01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:54.000 Does that make any sense at all? 01:19:54.000 --> 01:20:06.000 Yeah. By reducing inflammation, sometimes your stress hormones will come back to normal. 01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:35.000 And if you're experiencing good functioning from abnormally high adrenaline and cortisol, when those are lowered by getting rid of the inflammation, then you feel a letdown and realize you're compensating for something like hypothyroidism by running high on adrenaline. 01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:45.000 Not that you guys necessarily care. I think our stream is down, but I'm still recording the audio. 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:51.000 And so we just have to keep rolling. I don't know what is going on because the stream health is good. 01:20:51.000 --> 01:20:59.000 It's just like the whole thing is glitchy, and people are saying we're cutting in and out, but honestly, it doesn't matter because I'm still recording it. 01:20:59.000 --> 01:21:03.000 So Georgi, did you have anything else on this topic? 01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:05.000 No, I got those all. 01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:24.000 Okay. Thank you, Ray. Thank you, Georgi. Let's try playing a question because I'm just going to assume this is still going. Solomon had one about testosterone. We kind of covered that. This one from John is about... I'll leave it as a surprise. Okay. So let me hide this. Ray, you can hear everything okay still? 01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:25.000 Yeah. 01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:28.000 Okay. Let me hide this. Okay. This one's from John. 01:21:28.000 --> 01:21:29.000 Hey, Danny. 01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:34.000 Oh, this is not going to work. Okay. That was real glitchy. 01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:35.000 Choppy. 01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:45.000 Yeah. Okay. Error. YouTube is not receiving enough video. This makes no sense. Okay. Let's try one more and see what happens. This one's from our brother Ozan. Ozan. 01:21:45.000 --> 01:22:11.000 Hello, Danny. Hello, Georgi. Hello, Dr. Peat. This is Ozan. My question is about viruses. After investigating them over the past year a little deeper, like most people, I can't really see a reason why a virus would even want to invade a human cell, especially because wanting seems like something a living organism would do. 01:22:11.000 --> 01:22:39.000 So if a virus isn't alive, it seems as though we're attributing ideas to an inanimate object. I'm kind of having a hard time seeing the advantages of a virus to inhabit a cell and duplicate itself, because then we're implicating that it has the processes that are involved in making those type of decisions, like a metabolism or energy production or digestion or reproduction. 01:22:39.000 --> 01:23:00.000 And it doesn't seem to have any of those things. It more so seems like an RFID chip that a higher intelligence made and is then enabled by another higher organism than itself, akin to exosomes being produced by our cells. 01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:19.000 Viruses, to me, at least, seem that way, as opposed to what they're being propagated as, which is something that can have malicious intent, even though they're in quantities that are incomprehensible. There's so many viruses. 01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:37.000 So maybe Dr. Peat could expand upon this idea that viruses want to get into your cells as if they're a parasite and you're the host, because I'm just not really seeing that relationship. 01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:52.000 If anything, it seems akin to horizontal gene transfer, where there's a transfer of information happening between organisms. And I remember Dr. Peat being able to take up DNA, even if it's foreign. 01:23:52.000 --> 01:24:19.000 The exosomes are produced by our own cells under stress, and sometimes they can create a stress or defect in other cells. But normally their function is to repair and patch up and quit the processes that are causing the problem. 01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:35.000 So the exosomes normally are part of our maintenance system, and when our system is sick, then the exosomes can extend and spread that sickness. 01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:55.000 But the environment is full of cells that have decomposed for various reasons, or pollen that's deliberately spread by plants. 01:24:55.000 --> 01:25:10.000 We inhale pollen or eat it, and that DNA gets into our system, and our cells have access to that and now and then can absorb it. 01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:27.000 People who've eaten certain kinds of algae, for example, it turns out that the algae DNA can be found in their own cells, in the human brain cells, for example. 01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:40.000 And a few labs that have looked for those effects find that it isn't that uncommon. 01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:53.000 I think it's the Whitehead Institute in Cambridge, part of MIT-Harvard, a group there, did a study on the RNA virus used in the vaccine. 01:25:53.000 --> 01:26:10.000 And on human cells in vitro, they showed that cells not only can take it up and use it in the cytoplasm, but their reverse transcriptases can integrate it into the DNA genome. 01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:28.000 And if you question how these complex systems, large stretches of DNA or RNA surrounded by proteins and lipids, how the virus came into existence, 01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:49.000 naturally a higher intelligence was responsible. Animals and plants, with their repair systems, are always packaging some of their DNA, RNA, and proteins into exosomes for their own maintenance. 01:26:49.000 --> 01:27:02.000 And if these get into the environment, probably as food of other organisms as well as things drifting in the air like pollen, 01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:30.000 but this horizontal transfer of genetic information, bacteria do it as a routine thing. They mutate in the right direction and make a little exosome to transmit that DNA to not only their same species, but even different species. 01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:46.000 So they're usefully and protectively doing a DNA transfer, which is like passing a good virus or a good exosome onto its neighbors. 01:27:46.000 --> 01:28:02.000 And I don't see any possible origin for viruses other than as escaped genetic material from complex organisms, animals and plants. 01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:18.000 And plant organisms, plant viruses, can be taken up like the algae DNA that was found in people who had eaten it. 01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:37.000 Two plant genetics professors at Oregon State who were working with a plant virus to infect the plant, they would put some pumice powder on their finger and the dab of the virus culture, 01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:48.000 and then they would rub the plant leaves. The pumice was to break the cuticle and let the virus get into the plant. 01:28:48.000 --> 01:29:10.000 These two professors working with the same plant virus just a few months apart both died of a very rare brain disease, which I think very likely was similar to the algae gene that can affect the brain. 01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:25.000 I think these were an example of grinding plant virus DNA into their fingers and having the brain cells take it up with harmful effect. 01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:36.000 I have a question here related to that. So I guess in that case it doesn't make sense to speak of like an avian specific virus or a marine specific virus or a human specific virus. 01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:42.000 They're all viruses of specific origin, but as far as their target, it's really any organism that can make use of them. Is that correct? 01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:50.000 I think so. Or that it is in especially weakened condition so that any random junk falls into their cells. 01:29:50.000 --> 01:30:05.000 Okay. So potentially, would you guess like what portion of these viruses that are out there would be harmful to us or would it be anything would be harmful, even beneficial ones, if we're in an energetically depleted state? 01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:16.000 Yeah, it would be the fairly rare virus that would be really useful without a lot of work. 01:30:16.000 --> 01:30:33.000 But I think our cells can store some of these as potentially useful, even though they might have to undergo further stress to mutate it enough to make use of it. 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:56.000 But generally, I think being in the depleted, inflamed state makes us susceptible to probably 99% of the DNA we incorporate in that condition is going to be harmful to some extent. 01:30:56.000 --> 01:31:06.000 Well, that raises a very interesting question about the origin of viral pandemics. Why would they suddenly start for a specific virus and then let's say like spread around the entire world? 01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:21.000 Either there's no such thing or maybe, or I don't know, like why would a specific virus suddenly take hold into humans considering they've been exposed to those viruses probably for generations, but suddenly we have this pandemic and now it's taking over the world? 01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:24.000 Well, probably not. 01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:32.000 Not the specific one, but pandemics in general, to me, sound either not possible and they're being overblown or there's something else going on. 01:31:32.000 --> 01:32:01.000 Yeah, the coronavirus has been around as long as anyone knows, causing colds and several lawyers are suing state and federal departments of health, asking them for the information of the harmfulness that they based their lockdown and vaccine campaign on. 01:32:01.000 --> 01:32:16.000 They have not released any actual data to support the whole pandemic response system. It's a big vacuum as far as actual science is concerned. 01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:38.000 Right, but aside from this pandemic, I mean I'm looking at the 1918 flu pandemic, a study recently came out, even the Black Death, the plague, the study recently came out that said both of these events, the mass deaths were actually due to possibly endotoxin overload, stress and like general inflammation, not the actual virus itself. 01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:43.000 So the whole talk about pandemics sounds very political to me, even if the virus is pathological. 01:32:43.000 --> 01:33:02.000 Yeah, but that's the thing about the azithromycin, for example, or hydroxychloroquine, any of the things that have obvious helpful effects. 01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:23.000 Aspirin, progesterone, everything that is helpful is anti-inflammatory. As if the, what am I looking for, the carbonic anhydrase inhibitor. 01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:26.000 Oh, azithromycin, yes. 01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:54.000 It has a profoundly anti-inflammatory effect. Those things are actually not only preventing and curing the symptoms, but they're putting the cell into the uninflamed condition that makes young healthy people resistant to even catching the virus or having any reaction to it. 01:33:54.000 --> 01:34:12.000 The system doesn't want to relieve the suffering and death whatever is causing it, whether it's influenza or COVID virus. 01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:41.000 They want to sell their vaccine primarily and possibly a new patented antiviral, but they're turning away from the very clear evidence of extreme success in treating and curing and preventing the symptoms just by concentrating on the inflammation. 01:34:41.000 --> 01:34:56.000 It's only the inflammation that is killing people and causing symptoms. Inflammation leads to the uptake and replication of the virus. 01:34:56.000 --> 01:35:04.000 So, if I'm hearing this correctly, blaming solely a virus for a worldwide pandemic, whatever that virus may be, is insane. 01:35:04.000 --> 01:35:14.000 Yeah, because this inflammation always causes damage to the intestine. These are enteroviruses. 01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:29.000 They infect the intestine preferentially. When the intestine is inflamed, it leaks at least endotoxin and increases serotonin release. 01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:44.000 Those both increase clotting and inflammation of the blood vessels, which are currently being emphasized as a major killing effect. 01:35:44.000 --> 01:36:01.000 All of these clotting, inflammatory blood vessels, brain, lung, multi-system problems have existed before and are not specific for this disease. 01:36:01.000 --> 01:36:20.000 If they, tomorrow, on every newscast around America, if they announced that the rotavirus was out and that it was terribly dangerous and gave a bunch of ambiguous symptoms, wouldn't that create a similar type of situation? 01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:30.000 A bunch of people going to the hospital and getting iatrogenic treatment? That's something that isn't seeded into the culture of understanding. 01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:34.000 Just using something like fear could create a mass amount of illness. 01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:51.000 Yeah, and then putting a tube in someone's windpipe and pumping air into them. That destroys the lungs very quickly. The hospitals were ordered to do that with no rational basis whatsoever. 01:36:51.000 --> 01:37:03.000 They killed just by intubating that many people. Whatever they had as a problem, you're going to kill a very high percentage of them. 01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:20.000 Like the German hospitals, a doctor who insisted on the rational, traditional, mild way of giving oxygen with just a cannula at your nostril. 01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:41.000 His hospital had zero COVID deaths and an adjoining hospital just as technically qualified, but following the unfounded recommendations, they had 60% mortality. 01:37:41.000 --> 01:38:08.000 Absolute murder by intubation. In general, when you order people to diagnose and treat in certain ways, you're going to create the appearance of a very deadly disease, which is really the side effects of medicalization. 01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:20.000 You mentioned there's a factor in the environment that's leading to this general frailty of the population, especially the young people. It's probably more than one, right? Or do you have one that specifically you have in mind? 01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:37.000 Oh, yeah. All sorts of things. The last 40 years have tremendously increased in the environment. The use of polyunsaturated fats is one anti-energy exposure. 01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:55.000 The use of nanoparticles in foods and clothing, for example, and skin preparations are another major change tending to promote inflammation. 01:38:55.000 --> 01:39:09.000 And then vaccinations are intended. The aluminum or lipid adjuvant is put in there to create systemic inflammation. 01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:32.000 And experimentally, you can create allergies in an animal by exposing them in that way. And injecting antigens into the muscle is completely irrational as far as our immune functioning works. 01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:55.000 But it reaches the nerves transport the inflammation producing substance to the brain and the brain activates a system wide inflammatory state, which, among other things, increases production of antibodies. 01:39:55.000 --> 01:40:16.000 But at the same time, it's depleting your general resistance. And the vaccine increase corresponds very closely to the rise of allergies and inflammatory diseases like autoimmune. 01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:36.000 But I think it also is behind this accumulation, Kawasaki disease being very rare and things being added to a systemic inflammatory syndrome, which is reaching its peak now. 01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:40.000 So presumably all these factors also activate the heat shock proteins, right? 01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:42.000 Yeah. 01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:58.000 Okay, we can segue into these last bit of questions and then we'll let you go, right? So one, thank you so much for joining us. The stream has totally gone belly up. We're just audio now. And some people are saying they can't hear us. But anyways, we're just going to keep going. 01:40:58.000 --> 01:41:16.000 Okay, so I actually, we got, I received lots of angry emails about our last conversation and I sent out, please give us like criticism or constructive criticism on things that we got wrong, whether it had to do with the last conversation or other conversations. 01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:23.000 And I received approximately zero critical questions. And so I was going to- 01:41:23.000 --> 01:41:25.000 But people kept complaining, right? 01:41:25.000 --> 01:41:42.000 People were complaining, but nobody was offering to clarify our warped wrong views. And so I found that to be interesting. So, but this is a open-minded discussion here. And so if you're offended easily, you might not want to listen to this. I don't know why that would be, but whatever. 01:41:42.000 --> 01:42:05.000 So my question to you that we were talking about a little bit before the stream started, like if a group of people has a problematic kind of death culture, holy book that overrides our innate solidarity with other humans, animals, et cetera, how can a functioning society be formed or maintain, be maintained rather? 01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:24.000 I think it would probably be best to start with everything people can do that is not guided by that death culture. 01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:40.000 Just looking at the practical outcome of what you're doing and gradually, if you can shift your attention to the practical moment, 01:42:40.000 --> 01:43:02.000 then the ideal thing would be to shift your attention to improving not just the practice of things, but our understanding that makes practical living and problem solving possible. 01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:20.000 Overcoming death and death's variations by discovering the cause of death and its variations and developing curiosity as well as practicality. 01:43:20.000 --> 01:43:35.000 And the curiosity is I think the pro-life essence of living behavior, including animals and bacteria. 01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:51.000 So I might not fully understand, but if somebody is healthy, this is going to be very controversial, if somebody is healthy, do you think they'd take a more liberal stance on what a holy book would say, like not take it so literally? 01:43:51.000 --> 01:44:06.000 Oh yeah, that has been a historical trend to treat those ideas as metaphors and not follow rules slavishly. 01:44:06.000 --> 01:44:07.000 And then those-- 01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:15.000 Like not cutting out people's eyes or cutting off their hands as punishment. 01:44:15.000 --> 01:44:30.000 Some of the literal things advocated in holy books are now recognized as barbarians, even though some countries still apply them. 01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:43.000 Georgi, interrupt whenever. Okay, so and then a functioning healthy society would be resistant even if there was a faction of people that were fanatical about their specific book, is that right? 01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:53.000 Yeah, people who want to survive and improve their lives can just go on about their business. 01:44:53.000 --> 01:45:06.000 Could you build a society around kind of this moral holistic – because people often make that argument, you have to have something like the Bible or whatever to build on top of. 01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:14.000 Do you think you could build on top of a holistic view of science and have it be, I don't know, functional? 01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:39.000 Yeah, you can find like Wilhelm Reich in his book The Murder of Christ made great use of one of the books of the New Testament to connect his thinking with what's in the Christian Bible. 01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:50.000 It was very convincing use of those old ideas in a life-affirming way. 01:45:50.000 --> 01:46:10.000 Georgi, cut me off anytime here. What do you see as the artificial – and we've probably talked about this before – but what do you see as the artificial long-term struggle between humans? Would you classify it as authoritarian versus anti-authoritarian, or would you get more specific with it, or how would you view it? 01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:34.000 Mostly it's authoritarian versus authoritarian. Behind authoritarianism is a doctrine of atomistic individualism that sort of defines everyone else as a potential enemy. 01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:47.000 And starting with – it could come from ideas in the Christian culture. 01:46:47.000 --> 01:47:10.000 Marx, for example, adopted largely Christian ethics in designing his new approach to reality. But you can find lots of good ideas in our tradition. You don't have to start from a vacuum. 01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:28.000 And then authoritarian versus – we talked a long time ago about kind of connecting everything to nature. Would that have any relationship to nature, like categorizing in authoritarian versus anti-authoritarian, or how you said authoritarian versus authoritarian? Or it's totally for this human construct type of thing? 01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:55.000 Yeah, the authoritarians have placed themselves, the individual human, against nature. And so they refuse to see intelligence. It starts with denying full human qualities to women and children because it's only the male patriarch that is truly fully human. 01:47:55.000 --> 01:48:10.000 And then that extends – animals are material, not living intelligent beings. And obviously the same for plants and microbes. 01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:23.000 They are defined as a material world, and women and children are mired in the material world to some extent. 01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:39.000 And so getting away from that idea of a material world is an essential thing. You can't objectify it and say it's life. 01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:55.000 Life is the dominant male, and all the rest is tending to be inert and unwholesome matter. 01:48:55.000 --> 01:49:11.000 If you see the consciousness that is visible in plants, animals, and bacteria all the way down to their smallest units, 01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:26.000 the coacervation approach is just one way of seeing that every atom and molecule has an actual active role. 01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:51.000 There's no random junk operating anywhere in the system. Everything is participating and guided by intelligence, except when authoritarian beliefs intervene to become blind to the intelligence that's there. 01:49:51.000 --> 01:50:00.000 I have a question. You said in one of the previous podcasts that at least the way you experienced it, the country kind of peaked in the 1950s. 01:50:00.000 --> 01:50:06.000 You said we had everything that we needed, and after that things steadily got worse. 01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:13.000 But my question is this authoritarianism has been around for millennia, and it certainly existed back in the 1950s. 01:50:13.000 --> 01:50:27.000 Some of the more conservative groups these days are trying to make the argument that this country peaked precisely when it was controlled and ran by a patriarchal, waspy society. 01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:32.000 How do you respond to people like that? 01:50:32.000 --> 01:50:49.000 J.D. Unwin was a professor in England who said that the repressive authoritarian society was necessary for civilization itself. 01:50:49.000 --> 01:51:12.000 He said that the nature of the world is that it needs the authoritarian dictator to keep the material degeneration process from happening where everyone would just enjoy what they're doing. 01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:21.000 It has to be organized so it has good armies and can conquer the world and expand as an empire. 01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:38.000 That was in the 1930s. He was writing about the process of creating an ideology of repression. 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:59.000 It began at the beginning of the century with neo-Darwinism, and then people like J.D. Unwin and Konrad Lorenz in Germany, Charles Davenport, the eugenics professor in the U.S. 01:51:59.000 --> 01:52:10.000 Those were primarily subsidized by the big corporations and banks. 01:52:10.000 --> 01:52:37.000 It was after the Second World War that they really got organized when the CIA became the primary agent of these corporations and banks which had been doing it on a private basis, taking over governments by their own private armies. 01:52:37.000 --> 01:52:58.000 But the CIA now got things organized and made a program to take over the media, the universities, the publishing houses, and set the world on the strictly authoritarian course. 01:52:58.000 --> 01:53:14.000 So these things have been there all along, but first the corporations establishing relative monopolies, and then the CIA acting as the agent of monopolies. 01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:30.000 It was a given a power that became sort of totalitarian. I did it from 1950 because that's when the CIA started the Congress for Cultural Freedom, 01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:48.000 which even abstract expressionism was promoted in the art world over any kind of meaningful image, painting, or sculpture. 01:53:48.000 --> 01:54:10.000 It was totalitarian in the sense that it penetrated religious publications, art museums, concerts, everything in the culture was being redesigned under the guidance of the CIA. 01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:21.000 So do you think technology has a natural proclivity to eventually degenerate and become a tool in the authoritarian hand to oppress everybody? 01:54:21.000 --> 01:54:46.000 Norbert Wiener, who was one of the most important people in designing our artificial intelligence and control and communication system, he immediately at the end of World War II rejected any military research support. 01:54:46.000 --> 01:55:03.000 That knocked him out of the official line of intellectual development because the whole policy was to militarize our world and culture. 01:55:03.000 --> 01:55:25.000 He is a good person to investigate for the conflict between the technology that he himself greatly contributed to and the way it should be used under the guidance and control of intelligent human beings. 01:55:25.000 --> 01:55:34.000 What about hierarchy in nature? Or somebody would say, "Well, it's human nature to rule over other people." 01:55:34.000 --> 01:55:38.000 Yeah, that's what they say. 01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:59.000 But I mean specifically digital technology because it is the product of this idea of abstraction and that only ideas and atoms exist. That technology itself seems to have an inherent seed inside of itself to eventually degenerate and be used for evil, for control. 01:55:59.000 --> 01:56:15.000 Yeah, I've often mentioned that Bertrand Russell, coming from the ruling class, saw what it was doing and worked out the logic that justified it. 01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:27.000 But as he learned more about it, he saw that his logic was ideological built into it. 01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:50.000 He did that just before the computer thinking, the computability of mathematics and logic took over in the 1930s and 40s, specifically designed around that ideology that Russell had identified. 01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:59.000 He saw that logic became a matter of authoritarian reductionism. 01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:10.000 Atoms and logical atoms have to be precisely defined before they will work in a computer or a digital control system. 01:57:10.000 --> 01:57:30.000 It's exactly the openness to new connections that the human use of language and consciousness is the proper way of human functioning. 01:57:30.000 --> 01:57:42.000 And when you design a computable language, you've designed out the human properties that leave it open to innovation. 01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:51.000 And Norbert Wiener was one of the people who saw that on a technical level. 01:57:51.000 --> 01:58:04.000 In the animal world, if animals on the sub-Saharan Africa or something were high up on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, do you think they would not express aggression? 01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:31.000 No, not the irrational aggression. When I was in graduate school, the archaeological anthropologists who were identifying ape-like skeletons in Africa 01:58:31.000 --> 01:58:46.000 and claiming that humanity originated with the use of weapons to bash each other's skulls, the hunter-murderer-warrior idea of human beings, 01:58:46.000 --> 01:59:07.000 that idea of aggression is closely tied to the genetic theory of survival of the fittest. And survival of the fittest was converted to suit the idea of rule by the elite through military power. 01:59:07.000 --> 01:59:16.000 But aggression seems to be a natural response in an animal world when the animal is threatened and is not allowed to retreat. 01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:23.000 So something similar must be happening in people too, and that would be a, I don't want to call it a good response, but it would be a natural response, right? 01:59:23.000 --> 01:59:42.000 Yeah, self-defense. When you're pushed too far, you might lose rationality in the way you defend yourself, but it's a matter of survival. 01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:56.000 People will choose survival at that point, but when their survival is assured to any extent, then cooperation becomes the rule. 01:59:56.000 --> 02:00:17.000 As the early biological work of Peter Kropotkin worked out, and some of his followers in the later 20th century showed that cooperation all across the evolutionary spectrum, 02:00:17.000 --> 02:00:37.000 cooperation within species and even across species is the basic property of life, like bacteria will give their life-saving genetic material, even the strange unrelated bacteria. 02:00:37.000 --> 02:00:49.000 What do you think of the religious idea, when you get hit on one side of the face, turn the other cheek as well? That doesn't sound like a very good adaptive response, does it? 02:00:49.000 --> 02:01:01.000 No, I think you have to stop the slapper and then you can forgive him once he's powerless over you. 02:01:01.000 --> 02:01:03.000 William Blake said that, right? 02:01:03.000 --> 02:01:05.000 Yeah. 02:01:05.000 --> 02:01:11.000 Okay, so I'm just thinking about my schooling experience, and I hated always working with people. 02:01:11.000 --> 02:01:20.000 So what's the difference between that kind of cooperation in this messed up environment and health status of many people versus what you're talking about? 02:01:20.000 --> 02:01:24.000 You're talking about something more grandiose and bigger, right? 02:01:24.000 --> 02:01:27.000 Bigger than what, for example? 02:01:27.000 --> 02:01:45.000 What would lead a person to, or what would be the factors that could sustain cooperation among individuals without the defect of somebody thinking, "Oh, I'm just going to do it a completely different way," or "These people don't know what they're talking about," or something like that? 02:01:45.000 --> 02:01:48.000 Or, "I'm going to exploit their gullibility for my benefit." 02:01:48.000 --> 02:01:57.000 Yeah. Well, governments have created the channels for unfair advantage. 02:01:57.000 --> 02:02:18.000 They've built in privileges for banks, for example, to rip off the general public. 02:02:18.000 --> 02:02:26.000 They've given powerful opportunity to develop the constructive interactions. 02:02:26.000 --> 02:02:36.000 But now the governments have deeply and powerfully enforced the exploitation systems. 02:02:36.000 --> 02:02:43.000 I was going to ask you about Marx and the Rothschild connection, but have you been following that game? I don't know if you want to talk about that. 02:02:43.000 --> 02:02:51.000 What is the new story that has captured your mind at the moment? What do you think is important to talk about? 02:02:51.000 --> 02:03:08.000 Oh, I think the old story, the creative nature of the so-called material world. That's where we should be putting our energy. 02:03:08.000 --> 02:03:25.000 How it is that life has got this far, and what are the processes that will get us out of this current dying condition? 02:03:25.000 --> 02:03:34.000 And people hate it when I ask you to speculate about things, but this dollar inflation type of thing, that's on purpose to— 02:03:34.000 --> 02:03:52.000 Yeah, they invest in stocks, for example, and then to increase the value of stocks means they're taking power from anyone who doesn't own shares in the big corporations. 02:03:52.000 --> 02:04:08.000 So inflating dollar value is ruining anyone who doesn't own one of the systems which is going to survive. 02:04:08.000 --> 02:04:30.000 In the process, they are deliberately killing the small businesses that aren't on the stock exchanges, so that all economic activity is being funneled through the big monopolies that they're invested in. 02:04:30.000 --> 02:04:52.000 And as part of killing independent business, they are inflating the dollar so that it makes it harder for them with their worthless dollars to ever buy into the monopoly system that is going to take over everything. 02:04:52.000 --> 02:05:03.000 Do you think it goes a step further than that? I mean, there's been a lot of talk on the news about this. You may have heard of the company Robinhood, and they're trying to get everybody to invest, basically. 02:05:03.000 --> 02:05:19.000 And a lot of people are getting burned in the process. Considering the fact that the banks have all the power and all the information, wouldn't it be a bit of a nefarious idea that they have to convince everybody to invest in the stock market and suddenly crash it when they want it and take out all the profit? 02:05:19.000 --> 02:05:27.000 So, in other words, even investing in the stock market is not a good idea for the regular person because it's the banks that call the shots there, too. 02:05:27.000 --> 02:05:47.000 Yeah, but they don't know the rules. The giant corporations have computer systems set up so that they can always beat the individual to do timely sales and purchases. 02:05:47.000 --> 02:06:04.000 I'm sure they hope that a giant swath of the population will die, but is there anything you've seen recently that makes it more clear of what they're actually going to do with a bunch of serfs that are now dependent on the government? 02:06:04.000 --> 02:06:29.000 Oh, just being in that dependent condition, it's already increased mortality greatly. So, just keeping them in an insecure state of relative misery, they'll just die off sooner rather than later. 02:06:29.000 --> 02:06:32.000 George, do you have any other questions? 02:06:32.000 --> 02:06:45.000 Yeah, I mean, there's already talk, even on Main Street, as they say, of upcoming civil war. Countries are bitterly divided into two, even though they're actually part of the same party, the have-nots. 02:06:45.000 --> 02:07:05.000 But do you think that if a significant amount of people tries to revolt or take matter into their own hands and try to organize and try to topple the system, do you think they will go full-blown military-style dictatorship? They will not hesitate and they will implement that? 02:07:05.000 --> 02:07:28.000 Oh, definitely. Like the Occupy Wall Street movement, they had corporate control, but authorized by the FBI, snipers ready to kill the leaders. So, they're ahead of us in every way. 02:07:28.000 --> 02:07:40.000 But it was slightly different. Occupy Wall Street was still a relatively small political movement. Now, half of the country, at least, seems to basically want out. They don't like that system. They know that it's killing them. 02:07:40.000 --> 02:07:59.000 I'm not going to mention any political candidates, but basically they're saying the federal government is out of control, it's an evil organization, and we will try to go our own way. Do you think that if that actually starts manifesting, materializing, basically the powers that be will say, "You know what? We will not let you." 02:07:59.000 --> 02:08:09.000 Yeah, I'm sure that's true. It doesn't matter if they're a majority. The military has the biggest weapons. 02:08:09.000 --> 02:08:14.000 The spectacle is too big at this point, right? 02:08:14.000 --> 02:08:20.000 I guess too much of the truth has become known. It can no longer be concealed through peaceful means. 02:08:20.000 --> 02:08:38.000 I think that's true. They wanted to polarize people to get the so-called right and the so-called left to polarize and think of each other as the enemy. 02:08:38.000 --> 02:08:55.000 But now it looks like much of the Republican Party is standing for what the traditional Democratic Party stood for, and the Democrats have appropriated the worst elitism of the old Republican Party. 02:08:55.000 --> 02:09:13.000 So the polarization is largely imaginary, but they're still hoping to capitalize on that to make the people fight each other instead of who they should be fighting. 02:09:13.000 --> 02:09:28.000 Do you think the military will follow the orders to attack its own people? Most of these people come from fairly struggling, regular, working-class families. Why would they obey those orders? 02:09:28.000 --> 02:09:43.000 Very often, like in the Vietnam War, I think it was the fragging that finally brought the war to an end. The soldiers. 02:09:43.000 --> 02:09:45.000 Started killing their commanders. 02:09:45.000 --> 02:09:49.000 Yeah, the commanders were their worst enemies. 02:09:49.000 --> 02:10:01.000 Absolutely. Last question, then we'll let you go, Ray. People thought you were inconsistent with the – we were talking about the Rothschilds and kind of the foothold or the position they play in all these things. 02:10:01.000 --> 02:10:13.000 And then people were saying, well, Ray has spoken highly of Marx, and apparently the Rothschilds have some specific connection with Marx or funding his work. And so they thought that was an incongruency. What do you think about that? 02:10:13.000 --> 02:10:26.000 Did you ever see his article in 1843 or '44 before he was a Marxist article on the Jewish question? 02:10:26.000 --> 02:10:48.000 People have called him an anti-Semite because of that article, but in the article, he was calling for a petition to the state Congress to emancipate Jews. 02:10:48.000 --> 02:11:12.000 The essence of the article was to support his pro-Semitic emancipation of Jews. His enemies were the Christian state and the various people who opposed Marx were the most radical anti-Semites. 02:11:12.000 --> 02:11:32.000 And so his article on the Jewish question was to oppose the anti-Semites and to call for a general, not just emancipation of Jews, but for a general emancipation of humanity from the world of finance. 02:11:32.000 --> 02:11:54.000 And I don't know that maybe if he, when he worked for the New York Times, if the Rothschilds were invested in the Times, you could say they were paying his salary, but I don't know of any actual support from the bankers to Marx. 02:11:54.000 --> 02:11:59.000 Great stuff. Thanks for that. You don't remember the exact, did you say the exact article, 1843? 02:11:59.000 --> 02:12:06.000 I think that was the date on the Jewish question. 02:12:06.000 --> 02:12:26.000 So one last question for me. There's a recurring theme on various online forums saying that the Soviet, the revolution of 1917 in Russia and then what became the Soviet Union, this was entirely a project of the Zionists and it had been controlling from the very beginning. 02:12:26.000 --> 02:12:43.000 And there was nothing free about this country and on and on and on it goes. But basically it was a pet project of Zionism to kind of create the East and the West of the world and clash it against each other while selling weapons to both sides. Do you think there's any truth to that? 02:12:43.000 --> 02:13:08.000 No. I've read for years on the issue and the Soviet government was really a mishmash that was steered very intelligently by Lenin, ignoring ideology to a great extent, 02:13:08.000 --> 02:13:27.000 but trying to do something that would end czarism forever while keeping the European and American invaders from taking over the country. 02:13:27.000 --> 02:13:51.000 And the Politburo, for example, was made up of people with a bunch of very different ideologies and Lenin was just able to maneuver an anti-czarist, anti-imperialist policy 02:13:51.000 --> 02:14:09.000 where the provisional government that they took over was really just an opening to let czarism back in or to let the West come in the way they went in in 1991. 02:14:09.000 --> 02:14:35.000 A phony government acting as agents of the West. So there were lots of very pro-Russian people who didn't like Marxism at all but who wanted whatever it was. 02:14:35.000 --> 02:14:55.000 Orthodox Christianity, for example, was a big motive. All of these patriotic people saw the revolution as a potential way to get out of czarism and imperialism, 02:14:55.000 --> 02:15:16.000 but some extreme ideologists were operating at different times and the fact that it did stay free of the West for 50 years or so, 70 years I guess, 02:15:16.000 --> 02:15:43.000 except that Khrushchev was in many ways strongly conceding and influenced by the West and then Gorbachev made further moves that opened it to tie it into international commerce and banking. 02:15:43.000 --> 02:15:51.000 Yeah. Normally at this point I would read stickers but I started over the stream and I can't see anything and so we'll have to do that another time. 02:15:51.000 --> 02:15:56.000 We had a bunch of donations and I'd love to read the names of everybody but it's not showing up on my thing. 02:15:56.000 --> 02:16:01.000 So anyways, we'll end it here. It's been almost two and a half hours so Ray has stayed over time for us. 02:16:01.000 --> 02:16:08.000 Ray, thank you so much. Sincerely appreciate it. Georgi Dinkov, thank you so much. Thanks for everybody hanging in there with these... 02:16:08.000 --> 02:16:16.000 I don't even know what happened. This is the first time that the stream has basically totally stopped but luckily we have the audio no matter what. 02:16:16.000 --> 02:16:23.000 Again, Ray, thank you so much. Georgi, thank you so much. We have an amazing viewership and listenership and so I'm very grateful. 02:16:23.000 --> 02:16:27.000 Thank you guys so much. We'll talk to you guys soon and take care. Be safe. Okay, bye everyone. 02:16:27.000 --> 02:16:28.000 Peace. 02:16:28.000 --> 02:16:29.000 Okay, thanks. Bye. 02:16:29.000 --> 02:16:58.000 [Music] 02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:04.000 [Music] 02:17:04.000 --> 02:17:30.000 [ No Sound ]