WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.580 (upbeat music) 00:00:02.580 --> 00:00:23.640 - Hello everyone, I'm Danny Roddy of DannyRoddy.com 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:25.560 and today I'm talking with painter, philosopher, 00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:26.920 biologist, Raymond Peat. 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.080 In this hour long episode, we'll talk about calcium 00:00:29.080 --> 00:00:31.760 as the cause and solution to many health problems, 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:35.040 why an excess of phosphorus is a serious source of stress, 00:00:35.040 --> 00:00:37.040 in addition to talking about libertarianism, 00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:39.480 the power elite's obsession with eugenics, 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:42.400 and the prominent role of CIA fascist spymaster, 00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:45.000 Allen Dulles, in shaping the world we live in today. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.000 In addition to thanking Ray for talking with me today, 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.000 I'd like to thank my patrons for making this show 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:50.960 and all the content I produce possible. 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:52.120 If you would like to become a patron, 00:00:52.120 --> 00:00:55.000 please go to patreon.com/dannyrowdy. 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:57.360 Ray's newsletter is available by email now. 00:00:57.360 --> 00:00:59.960 It's $28 for a total of six newsletters 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:02.360 delivered bi-monthly and you can subscribe 00:01:02.360 --> 00:01:06.600 by sending $28 to raypeatsnewsletter@gmail.com. 00:01:06.600 --> 00:01:08.320 As always, please do your own research 00:01:08.320 --> 00:01:09.540 and come to your own conclusions 00:01:09.540 --> 00:01:10.840 and in the spirit of William Blake, 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:12.640 the true method of knowledge is experiment. 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:14.440 Without further ado, here's the show. 00:01:14.440 --> 00:01:17.020 (upbeat music) 00:01:25.520 --> 00:01:29.480 - But maybe if I could just read you this Adele Davis quote 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.560 that you had in your calcium article as a starter, 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:34.840 but she says, "It is extremely important to realize 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.320 "that calcium deposits in soft tissues 00:01:37.320 --> 00:01:39.660 "become worse when the diet is low in calcium. 00:01:39.660 --> 00:01:42.880 "Persons suffering from arthritis, bursitis, scleroderma, 00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:45.200 "hardening of the arteries, and any abnormality 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.940 "where calcium deposits or spurs may cause pain 00:01:47.940 --> 00:01:50.380 "are often afraid to eat foods rich in calcium. 00:01:50.380 --> 00:01:51.740 "Actually, they can never improve 00:01:51.740 --> 00:01:54.660 "until their calcium and magnesium intakes are adequate, 00:01:54.660 --> 00:01:56.940 "and that inspired my email to you 00:01:56.940 --> 00:01:59.520 "about doing this episode of," 00:01:59.520 --> 00:02:01.720 I think you had mentioned it in some podcast, 00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:04.980 "of the idea that calcium is not only the solution 00:02:04.980 --> 00:02:06.620 "to many of the health problems, 00:02:06.620 --> 00:02:10.280 "but it's also the cause of many of the health problems." 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.880 And so I think maybe that gets into David McCarron's work, 00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:16.160 but I thought that was like a interesting concept 00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:19.960 that was probably of fundamental importance to understand. 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:22.200 - Yeah, and that was 50 years ago 00:02:22.200 --> 00:02:25.300 that she wrote that, at least. 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:28.040 And that's just horrifying to see 00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:30.560 how the medical journals now, 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:35.080 about 80 or 90% of the people talking about calcium, 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:39.640 at least 90%, completely miss that information 00:02:39.640 --> 00:02:42.120 that she had back in 1960. 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:44.720 - And you think that's possibly an extension 00:02:44.720 --> 00:02:46.840 of just this incorrect view of the cell? 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:48.520 Is that how they are getting it so wrong? 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:51.960 - Yeah, I don't think she knew anything about Gilbert Ling, 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.920 but she did read that that's the difference. 00:02:54.920 --> 00:02:56.800 She was reading stuff in general 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.800 and just accumulating information. 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:03.280 That is what you have to conclude, 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:05.640 even without knowing the principles 00:03:05.640 --> 00:03:10.640 of the gel nature of cytoplasm and how gels work, 00:03:10.640 --> 00:03:14.280 what pH does to a gel and its affinity for minerals. 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.440 But that work had been going on for 20 or 30 years 00:03:17.440 --> 00:03:20.600 before Gilbert Ling wrote his stuff. 00:03:20.600 --> 00:03:25.400 And so it was in the culture and people just staying awake, 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.720 just like Adele Davis accumulated it by reading nutrition. 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:31.960 - You frequently mention David McCarron 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:33.360 and reference his articles, 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.120 and he has a slew of articles 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:37.960 in I think the late '80s and '90s. 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:41.520 Was his work not respected or was it not acknowledged? 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:44.800 - He got fired from California University, 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.680 I think UC Berkeley, and went to Oregon, 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:52.760 where they were too backward to see how dangerous he was. 00:03:52.760 --> 00:03:54.200 - And the dangerous message 00:03:54.200 --> 00:03:57.800 was the calcium antihypertensive effect? 00:03:57.800 --> 00:03:59.520 - Yeah, stop talking about salt 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:01.520 and giving people diuretics. 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.320 The medical business had been killing them 00:04:04.320 --> 00:04:06.160 already for 30 years. 00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:09.540 And when he said that it's calcium deficiency, 00:04:09.540 --> 00:04:10.800 not sodium excess, 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.760 and they had to fire him and send him to the backwoods. 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.640 - You mentioned the gel-like nature of the cell. 00:04:21.640 --> 00:04:24.280 Can I read you a little summary of the cell, 00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:27.020 and then you can stop me if I'm horribly wrong? 00:04:27.020 --> 00:04:28.320 It's very simple, 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:31.400 but it might be good just to nail down some things 00:04:31.400 --> 00:04:33.760 or like terms or a glossary. 00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:35.960 So if there's sufficient thyroid, 00:04:35.960 --> 00:04:37.960 ATP is the final end product 00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:39.960 of the food materials we consume. 00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:43.560 The healthy resting state, ATP polarizes a cell, 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:47.400 meaning that it sustains the protein water solute structure, 00:04:47.400 --> 00:04:49.960 preferentially absorbing potassium and magnesium 00:04:49.960 --> 00:04:52.480 and naturally excluding sodium and calcium. 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.680 And then the depletion of ATP 00:04:55.680 --> 00:05:00.680 leads to the depolarized state where a cell is vulnerable. 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.400 And then the depletion of ATP, 00:05:03.400 --> 00:05:05.760 it also breaks down into ADP, 00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:08.240 like a lower energy molecule. 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:13.080 And you lose the complex of magnesium with ATP, 00:05:13.080 --> 00:05:16.440 and you also lose phosphate. 00:05:16.440 --> 00:05:19.520 And then the ADP complexes with calcium. 00:05:19.520 --> 00:05:22.500 And then this is the general state 00:05:22.500 --> 00:05:24.500 that leads to the reductive stress, 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:27.780 the low carbon dioxide, the high lactic acid, 00:05:27.780 --> 00:05:30.160 and then the shift in the intracellular 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.640 and extracellular pH. 00:05:32.640 --> 00:05:35.400 - And meanwhile, things are streaming, 00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:38.520 oxygen and sugar are streaming in, 00:05:38.520 --> 00:05:40.680 and CO2 is streaming out, 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.920 dragging the unnecessary minerals with it. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.160 - The switch between the polarized and depolarized, 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.080 is that a natural phenomenon, 00:05:48.080 --> 00:05:51.720 or should a cell not necessarily need to shift 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:54.760 into that disorderly water depolarized state? 00:05:54.760 --> 00:05:57.280 - Gilbert Ling showed that when he poisoned 00:05:57.280 --> 00:06:02.280 the energy producing systems, glycolysis and oxidation, 00:06:02.280 --> 00:06:06.200 that cells retained their polarization 00:06:06.200 --> 00:06:08.420 for longer than 24 hours, 00:06:08.420 --> 00:06:10.680 just sitting there essentially dead. 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:15.480 And meanwhile, sodium and calcium were bouncing in the cell 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:17.360 and bouncing right back out again, 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.880 so they kept their polarization despite the motion 00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:24.200 across the surface and into the near regions 00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:26.320 of the cytoplasm and then back out. 00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:27.920 - I haven't looked at that paper for a long time. 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:29.880 It was always semi confusing, 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:31.880 because if he's doing a stress test 00:06:31.880 --> 00:06:33.680 or energy depletion of the cell, 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:36.240 how is it not becoming depolarized? 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.120 - He didn't excite them, he kept them quiet. 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:44.120 And they were reptile cells that could stand being cold, 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:46.800 so he kept them cold so that there wasn't 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.160 depletion of the energy. 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.560 The energy just stayed there, stuck to the proteins. 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:53.640 - I had written to him a long time ago, 00:06:53.640 --> 00:06:57.040 asking him about carbon dioxide as a cardinal adsorbent. 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.340 I think he had mentioned that more research was needed 00:06:59.340 --> 00:07:00.580 or something similar. 00:07:00.580 --> 00:07:04.360 But you see the carbon dioxide as something essential 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:07.600 for maintaining the resting living state or the polarized. 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.260 - Yeah, I asked him something about carbon dioxide 00:07:11.260 --> 00:07:15.080 about 25 years ago, and he described an experiment 00:07:15.080 --> 00:07:17.120 he had done in graduate school 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:19.320 that exactly answered my question. 00:07:19.320 --> 00:07:23.600 It explained what they call the lactate paradox 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:27.320 of high altitude, where you can work full speed 00:07:27.320 --> 00:07:30.280 at high altitude without producing lactic acid 00:07:30.280 --> 00:07:32.720 the way you would at low altitude. 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:35.160 And he did it in the lab, basically, 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:39.000 showing that cells don't fully depolarize 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:41.460 even when they're stimulated and working 00:07:41.460 --> 00:07:44.120 if they have a good supply of carbon dioxide. 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.400 So in the lab, he showed the CO2 00:07:46.400 --> 00:07:49.220 was preventing full depolarization, 00:07:49.220 --> 00:07:51.480 and that's why you see it at high altitude. 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.920 You don't depolarize enough to shift from oxidation 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:56.720 to lactic acid production. 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:59.920 - I think somewhere you said that frequently depolarized 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:02.920 cells can lead to this pathology of being killed 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:07.080 in the process or the excitotoxicity and cancer, basically. 00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:10.200 - Yeah, the cell depends on, at first, 00:08:10.200 --> 00:08:13.800 using its internal glycogen to get the sugar 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.000 it needs to produce carbon dioxide. 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.040 And if that's depleted, then it starts using 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:23.200 any amino acids or fatty acids to oxidize, 00:08:23.200 --> 00:08:26.160 and they produce less carbon dioxide 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:29.480 and will turn on the wasteful process 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:33.480 of producing lactic acid, and that starts a vicious circle. 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.280 - The fats producing less carbon dioxide 00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:39.120 is one of the aspects of that, the pyruvate decarboxylation, 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:40.960 'cause that produces some CO2, 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.440 and something about oxygen economy or something? 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:47.340 - Yeah, the carbohydrates carry their own oxygen. 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:50.680 Each carbon already has part of the carbon dioxide, 00:08:50.680 --> 00:08:54.120 where with fat, you have to start with molecular oxygen. 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.820 There's no oxygen built into the fat molecule. 00:08:57.820 --> 00:09:02.820 You use the oxygen to produce the carbon dioxide 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.400 for each atom of carbon in the fat, 00:09:06.400 --> 00:09:09.040 where with carbohydrate, you use only half 00:09:09.040 --> 00:09:12.080 of the oxygen molecule, because there's already 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.960 one oxygen atom attached to the carbon. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:18.540 - It's funny, there was a large ketogenic diet person 00:09:18.540 --> 00:09:22.280 on a very popular podcast, and I think the interviewer 00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:24.440 was like, "What else are you researching right now?" 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:27.440 And it was something about carbon dioxide. 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:31.120 And so it was just funny to see his whole lifestyle, 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:32.960 ketogenic diets was like the antithesis 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.320 of his newfound interest in carbon dioxide. 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:37.160 - Oh, yeah. 00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:40.480 - I wanted to ask you a little bit about magnesium. 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:41.600 I found a little snippet. 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.040 Do you remember Andrew Kim, very smart gentleman 00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:45.920 that basically left the internet? 00:09:45.920 --> 00:09:48.880 So Andrew had written, "Magnesium or potassium 00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:51.880 is needed to form the phosphorylated ATPase 00:09:51.880 --> 00:09:55.760 that then, upon exposure to calcium or sodium, 00:09:55.760 --> 00:09:59.480 transfers a phosphate group to ADP, generating ATP." 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:03.080 So in short, magnesium helps to retain and generate ATP. 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.360 And then you had called magnesium 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.160 the basic protective calcium blocker. 00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:10.480 - Yeah. 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:12.200 - Was he right in what he said? 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:13.040 Do you agree with that? 00:10:13.040 --> 00:10:13.860 - Yeah, yeah. 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:14.700 - Okay. 00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:15.600 (laughs) 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.240 The reason why I mentioned magnesium is a lot of times 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.400 you talk about something like calcium, 00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:24.260 and then there's an immediate need to interject 00:10:24.260 --> 00:10:28.480 with how much more important magnesium is than calcium. 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.760 - Yeah, and at the same time you're making ATP, 00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:36.160 you're subtracting some phosphate, inorganic phosphate, 00:10:36.160 --> 00:10:38.720 from in that environment to get rid of 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:40.360 its excitatory effect. 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:43.240 - The breakdown of ATP can increase 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:47.360 the intracellular phosphate, but is the same thing occurring 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.420 when a person is just eating way more phosphate 00:10:50.420 --> 00:10:53.000 than sodium and magnesium and calcium? 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.060 - Similar, it tends to push it in. 00:10:55.060 --> 00:10:58.040 And fructose has the property of lowering 00:10:58.040 --> 00:10:59.800 intracellular phosphate. 00:10:59.800 --> 00:11:04.380 And the phosphatases are very cell protective in general. 00:11:04.380 --> 00:11:06.760 Getting the proteins unphosphorylated 00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:08.900 puts them into the resting state. 00:11:08.900 --> 00:11:11.840 When you stick a phosphate onto a protein covalently, 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.160 it tends to change its whole behavior. 00:11:15.160 --> 00:11:18.440 The whole cell goes into the excited state. 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.760 But even before it gets there, gets attached enzymically, 00:11:22.760 --> 00:11:26.880 it's pulling the water system away from the resting state. 00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:29.640 So my interpretation of muscle contraction 00:11:29.640 --> 00:11:34.000 or nerve excitation isn't that there is some little motor 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.120 that runs on the so-called high energy bond. 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.940 The way they usually picture it is that the energy 00:11:39.940 --> 00:11:41.800 from the so-called high energy bond 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:44.760 goes into some kind of a motor. 00:11:44.760 --> 00:11:47.920 And that's what is happening rather than the parts 00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:49.420 that are left behind. 00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:52.920 But one of my good professors, Sidney Bernhardt, 00:11:52.920 --> 00:11:56.320 I mentioned that in 1959 I saw that he had shown 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.820 that there is no high energy bond in ATP. 00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:03.500 And I said, "Why does everyone talk 00:12:03.500 --> 00:12:05.000 "about the high energy bond?" 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.120 A famous guy from England had just been 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.280 at the university that week. 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:11.900 And he never said very much, but he said, 00:12:11.900 --> 00:12:13.320 "Not everyone does." 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:18.320 - Well, Gilbert says it in his 2001 book. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.840 He says, "Scow presented his sodium pump hypothesis. 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.960 "Podolsky and Morales demonstrated 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:26.100 "that the high energy phosphate bond concept 00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:27.680 "was in serious trouble." 00:12:27.680 --> 00:12:32.680 - Yeah, it was in '59 it was killed by Sidney Bernhardt. 00:12:32.680 --> 00:12:36.360 - But I mean, it's still common talk today, correct? 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:38.840 - Yeah, yeah, horrifyingly. 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:43.120 It makes you miss the whole thing that's happening, 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:47.300 which is that you don't want that free phosphate 00:12:47.300 --> 00:12:49.680 messing up your water system. 00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:51.000 - Sorry if I missed it. 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:55.320 It's interfering with the ordering of the water, 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.680 the differentiation between what you called the wild 00:12:57.680 --> 00:13:01.700 or the bulk water and the orderly oriented water. 00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:05.200 But what is it doing to specifically de-energize the cell? 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:06.820 You said it was excitotoxic. 00:13:06.820 --> 00:13:09.980 Is that increasing some messenger or something 00:13:09.980 --> 00:13:11.600 to de-energize the mitochondria? 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.680 - No messenger, just the whole system changes 00:13:14.680 --> 00:13:15.920 the way it's lined up. 00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:19.560 Like if you have a bunch of soldiers lined up in rows 00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:22.160 and then you say, "Given order," 00:13:22.160 --> 00:13:23.840 and suddenly the whole thing melts 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.440 and there's no longer any rows, 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.000 that's sort of a whole phase transition is what's happening. 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.640 And that's the problem with the receptor idea 00:13:32.640 --> 00:13:36.760 that everything to some extent is a receptor. 00:13:36.760 --> 00:13:38.840 When you have a thousand different things 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:42.120 getting ordered differently when it's in one state 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.760 than in the other, the order that has been kept 00:13:45.760 --> 00:13:50.120 in the proper positions melts as a whole process, 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:53.520 not as a series of isolated processes. 00:13:53.520 --> 00:13:55.520 - Okay, so it sounds like I'm thinking about 00:13:55.520 --> 00:13:57.260 phosphate a little too simply. 00:13:57.260 --> 00:14:02.420 - Yeah, like melting water or anything or freezing it. 00:14:02.420 --> 00:14:07.000 You can cool water well below zero degree Celsius 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:08.980 and still have liquid water. 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:13.520 But given the right trigger, suddenly all of the molecules 00:14:13.520 --> 00:14:16.960 can cooperate in such a way that they freeze up. 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:19.920 - So you could call phosphate like a depolarizer, 00:14:19.920 --> 00:14:22.040 basically, in excess? 00:14:22.040 --> 00:14:22.880 - Yeah. 00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:25.080 - And then that would lead to the cell 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:28.840 just having to make the choice of dying or being killed. 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.400 - Yeah, if it can't find its internal resources 00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:36.200 of ideally the glycogen and oxygen, 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:40.240 if something cuts off its oxygen and glucose supply, 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:42.760 then it starts eating itself 00:14:42.760 --> 00:14:45.800 and it's in danger of disintegrating. 00:14:45.800 --> 00:14:49.720 And it can do that in more or less organized ways. 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:54.720 If it's taken by surprise, it can dump its innards out 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.920 in very distressing ways. 00:14:56.920 --> 00:15:01.120 But if it is gradual enough that it is deprived of energy, 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.160 then it can get itself organized 00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:07.320 so that it makes its internal materials available 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:08.960 to other parts of the organism. 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:12.400 So when you're exercising one set of muscles, 00:15:12.400 --> 00:15:15.800 if you go about it gradually, you can build those up 00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:18.480 and not subtract too much from the others 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.620 because you're feeding what they need. 00:15:20.620 --> 00:15:24.480 But if you are very intense in your exercise, 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.760 if it's stressful, then the cortisol gets the material 00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:32.100 by shutting off the oxygen sugar use in idle cells, 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:35.720 causing them to slowly release their material 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:38.920 that can be used by the active cells to build them up. 00:15:38.920 --> 00:15:41.840 So stress hormones partly are there 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.120 to prevent toxic death of cells, 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.720 make it an orderly disintegration 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.160 that can help the other parts of the organism. 00:15:49.160 --> 00:15:51.560 - What you just said reminded me of a Selye quote 00:15:51.560 --> 00:15:53.280 where he was saying that everything 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:55.000 is being affected equally, 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.840 but there is like a weakest link somewhere in there 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:00.440 that can lead to some specific pathology. 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.240 Do you think that's the right idea? 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.480 - Yeah, it's the working system. 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.240 It's an adaptive process that feeds support 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.760 into the system that's working and functioning. 00:16:11.760 --> 00:16:14.080 The idea of the functional system, 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.840 it includes the way your brain is working too. 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.640 Habits are sort of a functional system. 00:16:20.640 --> 00:16:24.880 You integrate your thoughts and your digestive processes 00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:29.760 and your muscle activities around a way of living, 00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:31.600 and that supports that pattern. 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:33.320 So you tend to get in a rut 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:35.880 if you don't have things to interrupt 00:16:35.880 --> 00:16:38.800 and give you a more general way of functioning. 00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:40.960 - The brain is what is it born into the culture 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.760 and then the culture lives in the nervous system. 00:16:44.760 --> 00:16:46.360 And then Maslow said something like 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:48.720 the culture should be like an adaptive tool. 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:52.160 And so that being essential in a person's reactivity 00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:53.760 to certain stresses. 00:16:53.760 --> 00:16:57.560 - Yeah, the social system should be intelligent basically, 00:16:57.560 --> 00:17:00.880 and then it wouldn't degrade the participants in it. 00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:05.600 But when the social system is designed unintelligently, 00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:09.680 it's participating in the degrading process. 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:11.680 (laughing) 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.520 Maslow said it a lot more elegantly. 00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:16.480 (laughing) 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.560 - Well, I always like reading your stuff 00:17:20.560 --> 00:17:22.160 and I'll see something from Maslow 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:23.640 or I'll see something from Rogers, 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:26.800 and it will make me understand your work 00:17:26.800 --> 00:17:28.360 a little bit better. 00:17:28.360 --> 00:17:30.760 - I had been reading "Freud and the Freudians" 00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:33.880 for six months when I found Maslow's book. 00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:39.000 It was a tremendous experience just the way he spoke. 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.880 - Was he thought of as like crackpot at the time? 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.480 'Cause I haven't found anything 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.560 that I haven't liked about him so far. 00:17:44.560 --> 00:17:48.920 - Yeah, he was a great irritant to the Freudians 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.240 who were still there and the new behaviorists 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.440 were coming on and they didn't think 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:55.960 he was at all scientific. 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.360 - Do you feel similarly about Rogers? 00:17:57.360 --> 00:17:59.400 I know you had a criticism about him. 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.920 - Yeah, his approach was great for the union breakers. 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.560 They immediately saw that and one of his collaborators 00:18:06.560 --> 00:18:09.520 on the book, "The Sciences of Man," I think it was called, 00:18:09.520 --> 00:18:12.280 his co-author said that his approach 00:18:12.280 --> 00:18:14.800 was good for the tobacco industry. 00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:18.920 So was Selye, Selye was a cigarette promoter, 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.440 but Rogers, his first book, "Client-Centered Therapy," 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.880 the back part of it gives the philosophical basis. 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.760 It's a very good description of phenomenology. 00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:32.920 It's philosophically very good, 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.160 but it can be made bad use of by bad people. 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:37.160 - So if I understand what you're saying, 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:39.880 the bad part about it, not wanting to-- 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:42.120 - Not wanting to attack and criticize. 00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:44.980 - Okay, and is that a bad part of "Client-Centered Therapy" 00:18:44.980 --> 00:18:47.400 because, I mean, he wasn't interjecting. 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.240 - Yeah, Maslow would just butt in and say, 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:52.840 (laughing) 00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:56.280 you're feeling messed up because you're dealing 00:18:56.280 --> 00:19:00.640 with a horrible situation and just get out of that situation. 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:02.680 - To play devil's advocate, somebody might be like, 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:06.120 well, that's an authoritarian way of approaching things. 00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:09.240 - But a direct way of being anti-authoritarian 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.800 can look authoritarian, but it isn't. 00:19:11.800 --> 00:19:16.160 And actually, the super anti-authoritarian Rogers followers 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:19.160 end up leaving the authoritarians in place. 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:20.380 - Well, that's kind of funny. 00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:22.480 I swear I'm not obsessed with libertarianism, 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.500 but it seems like they say, we're not authoritarian, 00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.200 so we're gonna get rid of the government 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.080 and then break up into these small groups. 00:19:29.080 --> 00:19:32.240 - Yeah, that's the Koch brothers and their ilk. 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:36.400 They pose as anti-authoritarians, libertarians, 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.240 because they want to have absolute power. 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.800 They really would like to own the government, 00:19:41.800 --> 00:19:45.240 but if people still insist on voting and things, 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.160 then they want to break up the government entirely 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:50.440 and then have their own governing system. 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.440 - And they want all types of different "freedom," 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:55.120 except they don't want economic freedom. 00:19:55.120 --> 00:19:56.880 - Yeah, they want the army 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.920 and their way of controlling the money system. 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:02.040 - There was a website called, 00:20:02.040 --> 00:20:04.280 I think it was the Naked Capitalism, 00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:06.280 and they had a series of articles 00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:10.200 called "Journey into a Libertarian Future." 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.760 And the series was satirical, 00:20:12.760 --> 00:20:14.820 but they were using real quotes from a person, 00:20:14.820 --> 00:20:17.320 I think the name was Hans Hermann Hoppe. 00:20:17.320 --> 00:20:18.760 And it was enlightening, 00:20:18.760 --> 00:20:22.180 not only because a lot of the libertarians I'm aware of 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:23.680 seem to be genetic determinists, 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:26.080 but the author was also, 00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:29.360 he seemed to have a misanthropic contempt for humanity 00:20:29.360 --> 00:20:33.480 and using phrases, I think, like a natural authority 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.760 and favoring the elite. 00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:39.520 So it was just a pretty eye-opening of something 00:20:39.520 --> 00:20:42.960 that I used to consider to be very anti-authoritarian. 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:47.120 - Have you read any of Murray Bookchin's books or articles? 00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:48.000 - No, no. 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.320 - He was a good libertarian compared to the Koch type. 00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:54.800 - You had mentioned Joe Rahman, antiwar.com, 00:20:54.800 --> 00:20:55.960 Joe Romano, maybe? 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:57.200 - Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.040 Those are pretty good libertarians. 00:21:00.040 --> 00:21:01.520 They don't want to kill everyone. 00:21:01.520 --> 00:21:04.080 (laughing) 00:21:04.080 --> 00:21:08.200 They consider themselves the archaic conservatives. 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:09.240 I forget the term, 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.240 but they're the old-fashioned conservatives 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:12.900 who actually believe in freedom 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:15.840 rather than freedom to control everyone else. 00:21:15.840 --> 00:21:17.840 - Something else libertarians often talk about 00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:20.440 is the non-aggression principle. 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:22.900 That might sound good just at face value, 00:21:22.900 --> 00:21:26.340 but based on Han Selye's or your work of stress, 00:21:26.340 --> 00:21:29.900 the non-aggression principle really doesn't make any sense 00:21:29.900 --> 00:21:33.620 when you stress a person to fight for their survival. 00:21:33.620 --> 00:21:37.300 And if you have to provide for yourself or your family 00:21:37.300 --> 00:21:39.300 or you or your family are gonna die, 00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:41.980 who cares about the non-aggression principle? 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:44.180 - Yeah, there's the reality problem. 00:21:44.180 --> 00:21:46.020 - Okay, do you want to switch gears a little bit 00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:48.180 and talk about parathyroid hormone and serotonin 00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:50.620 because you're the only person I know of 00:21:50.620 --> 00:21:53.020 that makes the connection between the two. 00:21:53.020 --> 00:21:55.300 And so what's happening exactly? 00:21:55.300 --> 00:21:58.340 I know the low thyroid or hyperventilation 00:21:58.340 --> 00:22:01.180 or too much estrogen and low thyroid 00:22:01.180 --> 00:22:02.660 and an excess of estrogen 00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:04.700 tend to promote the loss of carbon dioxide 00:22:04.700 --> 00:22:05.940 and hyperventilation. 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:10.100 And that's causing the platelets are carrying the serotonin 00:22:10.100 --> 00:22:12.160 that's primarily produced in the intestine 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.060 and the platelets are becoming leaky 00:22:14.060 --> 00:22:15.620 and the serotonin is leaking out 00:22:15.620 --> 00:22:18.380 and that's activating the parathyroid glands. 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:21.940 - Yeah, the place that that should be normal 00:22:21.940 --> 00:22:23.500 is in lactation. 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:25.860 The serotonin turns on prolactin 00:22:25.860 --> 00:22:29.540 and the prolactin is parallel to the parathyroid hormone. 00:22:29.540 --> 00:22:31.740 Both of those break down the bone 00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:34.460 to provide extra calcium for lactation. 00:22:34.460 --> 00:22:37.180 So the serotonin works systematically 00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:39.940 in a logical way to make milk. 00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:44.940 But when hypothyroidism is the reason for excess serotonin, 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.460 hypothyroidism in itself, 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:51.420 because you're not producing very much carbon dioxide 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.620 by not using oxygen much, 00:22:53.620 --> 00:22:57.620 any little exertion tends to use up your energy 00:22:57.620 --> 00:23:01.340 and you have to then resort to glycolysis 00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:06.340 and produce the lactic acid and inflammatory state. 00:23:06.340 --> 00:23:09.700 And hypothyroid people run at a higher level 00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:13.700 of histamine, serotonin, and usually adrenaline too. 00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:18.700 Everything is using the emergency system unnecessarily. 00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:22.660 Just a background state of a very hypothyroid person 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:25.540 is hyperventilating in the sense of running around 00:23:25.540 --> 00:23:27.860 with those processes turned on. 00:23:27.860 --> 00:23:30.340 So when they go to a higher altitude 00:23:30.340 --> 00:23:33.820 and get even less oxygen and breathe faster, 00:23:33.820 --> 00:23:36.340 their hyperventilation becomes visible. 00:23:36.340 --> 00:23:39.820 But anyone, if they're driven to breathe faster 00:23:39.820 --> 00:23:43.740 than they should, if they use up their carbon dioxide, 00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.940 anything that makes you, like an inflammation 00:23:46.940 --> 00:23:49.460 that produces lactic acid and serotonin 00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:52.020 will turn on hyperventilation 00:23:52.020 --> 00:23:55.220 and stop the adequate production of carbon dioxide. 00:23:55.220 --> 00:23:57.660 And that sets in motion the things 00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:00.660 like causing the platelets to release more serotonin 00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.460 and the serotonin activating the prolactin 00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:05.180 and parathyroid hormone. 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:07.860 It causes chronic breakdown of your bones. 00:24:07.860 --> 00:24:08.900 - And something you had said 00:24:08.900 --> 00:24:10.980 that I thought was super fascinating, 00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:15.900 you said that you ideally, like in a Vernadskyian ideal state 00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:17.500 where the organism was realized 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:19.220 in like a really good environment, 00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:21.220 you would barely need your hormones. 00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:23.660 And I was thinking about parathyroid hormone, 00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:25.220 I was thinking about it too simplistically 00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:28.100 of just being suppressed by calcium, potassium, 00:24:28.100 --> 00:24:29.220 magnesium, or sodium. 00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:31.620 But like you just said, the primary thing 00:24:31.620 --> 00:24:33.460 holding it down is carbon dioxide. 00:24:33.460 --> 00:24:36.540 And so if the atmosphere just spontaneously increased 00:24:36.540 --> 00:24:39.940 in carbon dioxide, you would need less of your hormones 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:42.500 because they're having this adaptive function. 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:45.580 - Yeah, and an atmosphere rich in carbon dioxide 00:24:45.580 --> 00:24:48.300 is gonna produce lots of sugary fruit 00:24:48.300 --> 00:24:51.620 and make the diet easier to keep the carbohydrate up 00:24:51.620 --> 00:24:53.380 as well as the atmosphere 00:24:53.380 --> 00:24:55.900 keeping you from wasting your glucose. 00:24:55.900 --> 00:24:59.420 - Is there much information on the Carboniferous period? 00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:00.620 That's when the Earth had 00:25:00.620 --> 00:25:03.180 an extremely high concentration of carbon dioxide? 00:25:03.180 --> 00:25:05.900 - Yeah, there are lots of coal deposits 00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:07.580 that show what was going on there. 00:25:07.580 --> 00:25:10.620 - Wasn't there like a rapid evolutionary escalation? 00:25:10.620 --> 00:25:14.580 - Yeah, just a burst of innovation biologically. 00:25:14.580 --> 00:25:16.100 - Is that on a cycle? 00:25:16.100 --> 00:25:18.180 Could something like that be estimated to occur 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:19.740 in the future sometime or? 00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:23.180 - There are people working on the idea of cycles 00:25:23.180 --> 00:25:25.180 of the Earth more or less coordinated 00:25:25.180 --> 00:25:26.940 with cycles of the sun. 00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:29.460 There are different opinions about whether you can have 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:32.260 an approximate idea of when that's going to happen. 00:25:32.260 --> 00:25:35.420 But the smaller cycles, the ice ages, 00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:39.580 are somewhat easier to see meaningful cycles in. 00:25:39.580 --> 00:25:43.780 In 1940, the consensus was that a new ice age 00:25:43.780 --> 00:25:45.060 was approaching. 00:25:45.060 --> 00:25:46.940 The temperatures had been warming 00:25:46.940 --> 00:25:48.820 in the first part of the century, 00:25:48.820 --> 00:25:51.100 but it looked like they were now regressing. 00:25:51.100 --> 00:25:54.900 And that opinion stuck around from 1940 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:56.220 when I was in high school. 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.300 It was in the magazines and such. 00:25:58.300 --> 00:26:03.140 And as recently as 1974, '75, "Time" magazine 00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:04.420 and "New York Times." 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:07.980 And then in 1979, another article in "New York Times." 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:11.380 They were talking about an oncoming ice age again 00:26:11.380 --> 00:26:14.380 from 1940 to 1979. 00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:17.500 But then a three-mile island scared people 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:19.020 about nuclear power. 00:26:19.020 --> 00:26:22.220 And that scare scared the Pentagon 00:26:22.220 --> 00:26:26.020 that they would lose their nuclear fuel for making bombs. 00:26:26.020 --> 00:26:29.420 And almost immediately, they came out with a theory 00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:34.020 that carbon dioxide was going to create a too hot planet. 00:26:34.020 --> 00:26:35.940 No more talk about the ice age 00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:38.900 that had been discussed for 35 years. 00:26:38.900 --> 00:26:40.420 - I've actually, I've heard that before. 00:26:40.420 --> 00:26:44.140 And somebody was detailing the transition between, 00:26:44.140 --> 00:26:45.460 he called them the oiligarchs 00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:47.420 or the Rockefeller Standard Oil, 00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:49.740 have transitioned into the green movement. 00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:51.700 And those are all the same people saying, 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:55.140 don't have children and humans are cancer on this planet. 00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:58.060 And also saying things like the carbon dioxide is bad. 00:26:58.060 --> 00:26:59.740 But they were detailing the transition 00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:02.140 from being scared of global cooling 00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:04.980 to this new fear of global warming. 00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:07.060 - Yeah, people are a cancer 00:27:07.060 --> 00:27:10.460 because now we have automation and don't need workers. 00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:12.220 Where the Rockefeller Foundation, 00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:14.500 starting in the early 1900s, 00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:16.980 was pioneering disease prevention 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:19.020 because they needed healthy workers. 00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:20.980 And now that there's automation, 00:27:20.980 --> 00:27:23.860 it would be very economical to get rid 00:27:23.860 --> 00:27:26.420 of about four or five billion workers. 00:27:26.420 --> 00:27:27.820 - Upon watching that documentary, 00:27:27.820 --> 00:27:30.980 they were talking about standard oil producing mustard gas 00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:34.380 and then mustard gas being resynthesized into chemotherapy. 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:35.780 - Oh yeah, basically. 00:27:35.780 --> 00:27:39.100 One of my favorite examples of research financing 00:27:39.100 --> 00:27:41.300 was Elwood Jensen, 00:27:41.300 --> 00:27:44.620 was a government financed chemical warfare person 00:27:44.620 --> 00:27:48.540 working on things better than cyanide for killing people. 00:27:48.540 --> 00:27:50.900 And the government transitioned him 00:27:50.900 --> 00:27:53.580 right into working on estrogen. 00:27:53.580 --> 00:27:57.940 And around that time, 00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:02.380 estrogen became a big government as well as industry topic 00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:06.060 with cancer institutes taking up the study of estrogen. 00:28:06.060 --> 00:28:10.340 And Elwood Jensen invented the estrogen receptor. 00:28:10.340 --> 00:28:11.700 The government gave him 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:15.700 the only radioactively labeled estrogen 00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:17.780 to do his research with. 00:28:17.780 --> 00:28:21.580 And using that, he said that there is no metabolism 00:28:21.580 --> 00:28:23.620 of estrogen by the uterus. 00:28:23.620 --> 00:28:26.580 So all you people studying enzymology 00:28:26.580 --> 00:28:29.580 to explain how estrogen works, you're wrong. 00:28:29.580 --> 00:28:33.900 It's just hitting the receptor, no metabolism. 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:38.900 It turns on the genes and the genes turn on femaleness. 00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:41.820 And then 15 or 20 years later, 00:28:41.820 --> 00:28:45.220 other people had access to the various isotopes 00:28:45.220 --> 00:28:46.580 that they could show. 00:28:46.580 --> 00:28:50.220 Yes, the uterus does metabolize estrogen, 00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:53.260 but meanwhile, everyone had adopted the idea 00:28:53.260 --> 00:28:55.540 of a receptor turning on genes. 00:28:55.540 --> 00:28:57.260 - Do you think Elwood Jensen's research 00:28:57.260 --> 00:29:00.780 was being guided by the hands of these eugenics fanatics? 00:29:00.780 --> 00:29:03.580 - Yeah, I think the chemical warfare 00:29:03.580 --> 00:29:07.580 and estrogen Pentagon people are all clearly doing that. 00:29:07.580 --> 00:29:11.980 As a side light, they are seeing that inducing cancer 00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:16.500 almost instantly can be a useful tool for the military. 00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.340 - Well, I might as well mention it 00:29:17.340 --> 00:29:18.180 'cause I've talked about it, 00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:22.140 but it's James Corvette's "How Big Oil Conquered the World" 00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:24.860 and then "Why Big Oil Conquered the World." 00:29:24.860 --> 00:29:28.380 And he just very precisely documents 00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:32.380 how obsessed the elite people were with eugenics 00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:35.460 and how that was, and you've talked about it extensively, 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:40.220 and it just seems very deep rooted of the class system 00:29:40.220 --> 00:29:43.980 of we're useless eaters and things like of that nature. 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:47.380 - Yeah, the whole genetics movement itself, 00:29:47.380 --> 00:29:51.140 genetics, not eugenics, grew out of that motivation. 00:29:51.140 --> 00:29:55.780 The original famous geneticists were also eugenicists, 00:29:55.780 --> 00:29:58.260 and the Journal of Eugenics, 00:29:58.260 --> 00:30:01.860 after Hitler became a target of scorn, 00:30:01.860 --> 00:30:05.820 the eugenics journal changed its name to Human Genetics. 00:30:05.820 --> 00:30:08.460 And just after I got my PhD, 00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:11.620 I wrote an article in the graduate student newspaper 00:30:11.620 --> 00:30:14.820 and mentioned that fact that the eugenics people 00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:17.620 were still around, still teaching genetics, 00:30:17.620 --> 00:30:19.540 but that they were embarrassed 00:30:19.540 --> 00:30:22.460 and mentioned the Journal of Eugenics in the library. 00:30:22.460 --> 00:30:25.820 That week, all of the old volumes disappeared. 00:30:25.820 --> 00:30:28.620 (laughing) 00:30:28.620 --> 00:30:30.540 - And not to go too off track, 00:30:30.540 --> 00:30:32.460 but wasn't Hitler was funded 00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:35.700 by one of the Dulles brothers or not just- 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.980 - No, no, they were his employees, 00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:40.740 but on Standard Oil and several of the big banks, 00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:43.620 the Bush family and some of the big Democrat, 00:30:43.620 --> 00:30:48.260 I guess they were at times in the State Department, 00:30:48.260 --> 00:30:49.980 but in the banks primarily, 00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:52.340 they were financing the fascists 00:30:52.340 --> 00:30:53.780 right into and through the war. 00:30:53.780 --> 00:30:55.860 And as the war was declared, 00:30:55.860 --> 00:30:58.300 Roosevelt's government declared that, 00:30:58.300 --> 00:31:01.740 I think it was Alan Dulles was officially declared 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:04.180 a German enemy agent temporarily, 00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:05.940 but then very shortly after that, 00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:09.460 he was put into the secret service or the OSS, 00:31:09.460 --> 00:31:12.260 I think it was called, and then the CIA, 00:31:12.260 --> 00:31:14.540 and his brother put into the State Department. 00:31:14.540 --> 00:31:18.460 And if you look at the whole 10 or 15 years history 00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:22.700 of how those corporate powers were treating Roosevelt, 00:31:22.700 --> 00:31:26.380 in 1933, they had organized a coup 00:31:26.380 --> 00:31:29.060 and they recruited a Marine Corps General, 00:31:29.060 --> 00:31:33.020 Smedley Butler, to lead the army into Washington 00:31:33.020 --> 00:31:35.300 to put him out of office. 00:31:35.300 --> 00:31:40.300 And he gathered information as they were communicating 00:31:40.300 --> 00:31:41.980 between the corporations 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:44.460 through intermediaries with Butler. 00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:47.420 And he took the information to Congress and said, 00:31:47.420 --> 00:31:50.380 "Look, these big corporations are planning a coup." 00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:53.340 Congress investigated and confirmed what he said, 00:31:53.340 --> 00:31:55.220 but then did nothing. 00:31:55.220 --> 00:31:57.100 After 12 more years, 00:31:57.100 --> 00:32:00.460 they were influential in putting Truman in 00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:03.060 as vice president in place of Henry Wallace, 00:32:03.060 --> 00:32:05.900 because Wallace had gone on record 00:32:05.900 --> 00:32:10.900 as favoring a continuation of Roosevelt's anti-war policies. 00:32:10.900 --> 00:32:15.540 Alan Dulles was, meanwhile, 00:32:15.540 --> 00:32:18.700 in charge of European negotiations. 00:32:18.700 --> 00:32:23.140 He, just a week or two before Roosevelt's death, 00:32:23.140 --> 00:32:27.300 Alan Dulles was secretly and against instructions 00:32:27.300 --> 00:32:30.860 agreed upon by Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin. 00:32:30.860 --> 00:32:34.540 Alan Dulles was making deals with the Nazis 00:32:34.540 --> 00:32:37.580 to have the Nazis not fight the Americans 00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:39.540 and to go fight the Russians. 00:32:39.540 --> 00:32:41.540 Truman heard about it and said, 00:32:41.540 --> 00:32:43.460 "That information must be false 00:32:43.460 --> 00:32:46.060 "because no one would do that." 00:32:46.060 --> 00:32:47.500 Stalin heard about it first, 00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:49.420 and that was how Roosevelt heard about it, 00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:51.420 but Stalin just has no judgment 00:32:51.420 --> 00:32:53.060 to think that could happen. 00:32:53.060 --> 00:32:54.780 And then, within a few days, 00:32:54.780 --> 00:32:56.580 Roosevelt conveniently died 00:32:56.580 --> 00:33:00.020 before he had to accuse Dulles of the treason 00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:01.540 he was involved in. 00:33:01.540 --> 00:33:03.180 Alan Dulles then made deals 00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:06.380 with the German intelligence apparatus 00:33:06.380 --> 00:33:09.660 and unified the US intelligence system 00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:11.340 with the Nazi system, 00:33:11.340 --> 00:33:14.540 and that's what has set the course of history. 00:33:14.540 --> 00:33:17.180 - I guess there was a story about Alan Dulles's son, 00:33:17.180 --> 00:33:20.620 who, I guess, was having some psychotic problem 00:33:20.620 --> 00:33:22.460 or alleged psychotic problem, 00:33:22.460 --> 00:33:25.420 and he would say things like, "My dad is a Nazi spy," 00:33:25.420 --> 00:33:28.500 and the author of wherever I had read this said, 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:29.780 but he never said that again 00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:32.580 after they gave him his anti-psychotic medication. 00:33:32.580 --> 00:33:34.540 (both laughing) 00:33:34.540 --> 00:33:35.740 - Probably hurt so much. 00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:40.100 - But the person, I think Tarpley said this, 00:33:40.100 --> 00:33:42.460 that possibly had poisoned Roosevelt 00:33:42.460 --> 00:33:43.940 was the painter woman. 00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:45.380 Do you have any perspective on that? 00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:48.940 - Oh, yeah, there was talk about the inhalant 00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:51.620 that he used while he was being painted, 00:33:51.620 --> 00:33:53.580 just putting a little too much benzadrine 00:33:53.580 --> 00:33:55.340 or something in the inhalant. 00:33:55.340 --> 00:33:57.700 He sniffed it, held his head, 00:33:57.700 --> 00:34:00.780 and had an excruciating pain in his head 00:34:00.780 --> 00:34:02.900 after sniffing his inhalant, 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:05.060 and then that inhalant disappeared. 00:34:05.060 --> 00:34:06.540 - I had never heard that connection 00:34:06.540 --> 00:34:09.020 between Dulles and Roosevelt, 00:34:09.020 --> 00:34:11.420 and so he's very implicated 00:34:11.420 --> 00:34:15.940 in two high-profile presidential assassinations. 00:34:15.940 --> 00:34:18.460 - Oh, yeah, and have you heard any of the connections 00:34:18.460 --> 00:34:22.740 of Lee Harvey Oswald's landlady and DeMoran Schilt? 00:34:22.740 --> 00:34:24.420 Lee Harvey Oswald's landlady 00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:27.180 who was working with DeMoran Schilt, 00:34:27.180 --> 00:34:30.860 who was a 35-year associate of Dulles, 00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:34.260 they were both helping Lee Harvey Oswald get jobs 00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:38.780 like in the convenient book building in Dallas, 00:34:38.780 --> 00:34:43.100 and his landlady was a very close family friend 00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:44.340 of the Dulles'. 00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:46.900 Both of the people managing his movements 00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:48.740 for the last few months of his life 00:34:48.740 --> 00:34:52.340 were close longtime associates of Alan Dulles'. 00:34:52.340 --> 00:34:54.140 - When you're going through life 00:34:54.140 --> 00:34:55.820 and you're hearing these certain things, 00:34:55.820 --> 00:34:58.620 are you just wondering what's really going on? 00:34:58.620 --> 00:35:01.020 When you're hearing that Kennedy was assassinated 00:35:01.020 --> 00:35:02.020 and things like that? 00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:06.020 - No, my first thought was that Kennedy was such a bad man. 00:35:06.020 --> 00:35:06.860 No wonder. 00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:08.620 (laughing) 00:35:08.620 --> 00:35:12.180 But then, immediately within a week or so, 00:35:12.180 --> 00:35:13.540 I realized it was a coup 00:35:13.540 --> 00:35:17.380 for putting an even worse man in office. 00:35:17.380 --> 00:35:20.820 - And something, I think Douglas, no, no, 00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:22.420 maybe Tarbly said, but we don't know 00:35:22.420 --> 00:35:25.660 who the new Alan Dulles is right now, 00:35:25.660 --> 00:35:28.980 but he's certainly, I mean, maybe you do, 00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:33.620 but he certainly set a precedent of things to come 00:35:33.620 --> 00:35:36.820 which are still, I guess, unraveling right now. 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:39.620 - Yeah, Alan Dulles started associating 00:35:39.620 --> 00:35:42.900 with that banker by politician crowd 00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:44.980 when he was about 10 years old. 00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:48.220 So he had real skill and background 00:35:48.220 --> 00:35:52.700 in how to maneuver through the political criminal world. 00:35:52.700 --> 00:35:54.740 And I don't think there's anyone 00:35:54.740 --> 00:35:57.500 with such a extreme international 00:35:57.500 --> 00:35:59.460 social background operating. 00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:02.500 So I think there are basically a lot of klutzes. 00:36:02.500 --> 00:36:05.420 - I only have a single other question to ask you. 00:36:05.420 --> 00:36:08.380 I get the feeling, and I could be wrong, 00:36:08.380 --> 00:36:12.540 from reading, occasionally being privy to various responses, 00:36:12.540 --> 00:36:14.820 like the best page, I feel like, on the Ray Peat Forum 00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:17.020 is the link to your email wiki, 00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:19.020 which people compile your responses, 00:36:19.020 --> 00:36:21.180 which I think can be very valuable. 00:36:21.180 --> 00:36:24.140 And it seems like occasionally you've mentioned 00:36:24.140 --> 00:36:26.820 that pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA, 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:29.580 and/or thyroid aren't as effective 00:36:29.580 --> 00:36:32.860 if the vitamin D and/or calcium are low. 00:36:32.860 --> 00:36:35.660 And my question was, I know that PTH 00:36:35.660 --> 00:36:37.940 can inhibit mitochondrial respiration, 00:36:37.940 --> 00:36:41.940 but is it such a powerful break on the metabolism 00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:44.500 that getting the vitamin D and the calcium 00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.980 or carbon dioxide in order would just be important 00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:51.060 for having these other things work effectively? 00:36:51.060 --> 00:36:53.060 - You have to include sodium 00:36:53.060 --> 00:36:54.660 and a lot of other things in there, 00:36:54.660 --> 00:36:58.740 but yeah, it's one of the adequate breaks on the system. 00:36:58.740 --> 00:37:01.060 - Is that because of the specific actions 00:37:01.060 --> 00:37:04.060 of parathyroid hormone, or is it because it causes 00:37:04.060 --> 00:37:07.500 mast cells to release serotonin and other things like that? 00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:09.020 - Yeah, it's part of a system, 00:37:09.020 --> 00:37:11.100 so in itself is very powerful. 00:37:11.100 --> 00:37:15.100 The vitamin D and calcium are working on other things too, 00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:17.740 and so you can't say that they're only working 00:37:17.740 --> 00:37:19.500 on the parathyroid hormone. 00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:23.260 They work on the serotonin and proactin and growth hormone, 00:37:23.260 --> 00:37:26.860 essentially everything in themselves to different degrees. 00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:28.900 - When I think about like introing somebody 00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:31.260 into like a lot of this information, 00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:34.020 it seems relatively easy to go get your vitamin D measured 00:37:34.020 --> 00:37:34.900 and then to use it. 00:37:34.900 --> 00:37:37.020 I guess, is that something you feel comfortable 00:37:37.020 --> 00:37:40.060 like consulting to large amounts of random people? 00:37:40.060 --> 00:37:42.940 It seems like something fairly safe to talk about. 00:37:42.940 --> 00:37:43.780 - Yeah. 00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:46.380 - Okay, Ray, that's all I had for you. 00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:47.220 Hey, you know what? 00:37:47.220 --> 00:37:50.060 Do you want to touch on progesterone real quick? 00:37:50.060 --> 00:37:53.340 I know that just online there was a general confusion 00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:56.060 where people were misconstruing things about progesterone 00:37:56.060 --> 00:37:57.260 that you might wanna clear up. 00:37:57.260 --> 00:37:58.180 - Oh, yeah. 00:37:58.180 --> 00:38:02.780 People have been saying completely imaginary things. 00:38:02.780 --> 00:38:06.820 I imagine someone wanting to sell a product 00:38:06.820 --> 00:38:10.540 other than Progest-E complex must have made them up 00:38:10.540 --> 00:38:14.260 because they have no connection to reality. 00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:18.100 That I had nothing to do with the Progest-E formula. 00:38:18.100 --> 00:38:23.060 It's exactly the formula that I developed in 1976 00:38:23.060 --> 00:38:26.420 and has been exactly the same thing all these years. 00:38:26.420 --> 00:38:28.420 But people have been saying 00:38:28.420 --> 00:38:32.380 that they added estrogenic substances to it. 00:38:32.380 --> 00:38:35.500 A lot of people saying that they get estrogen symptoms. 00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:38.300 It is the usual internet placebo, 00:38:38.300 --> 00:38:40.780 negative placebo suggestibility. 00:38:40.780 --> 00:38:43.860 But the story that formula has changed, 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:46.260 it seems to have been repeatedly promoted 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:48.700 on some of the internet discussion places. 00:38:48.700 --> 00:38:50.900 - Lastly, can we just touch on a tiny bit 00:38:50.900 --> 00:38:53.980 on why somebody might have a strange reaction to progesterone? 00:38:53.980 --> 00:38:56.780 Like you mentioned that when estrogen is being eliminated, 00:38:56.780 --> 00:38:58.660 it can pass through an inflamed tissue 00:38:58.660 --> 00:39:00.820 and then the tissue can contain a large amounts 00:39:00.820 --> 00:39:02.620 of beta-glucuronidase 00:39:02.620 --> 00:39:05.380 and that will remove the glucuronic acid 00:39:05.380 --> 00:39:09.020 leaving pure estrogen to accumulate in the tissues. 00:39:09.020 --> 00:39:12.260 It's not unheard of that somebody similar to thyroid 00:39:12.260 --> 00:39:14.020 or anything that's safe, 00:39:14.020 --> 00:39:16.220 it depends on the system it's going into. 00:39:16.220 --> 00:39:18.460 And if the person is extremely estrogenic. 00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:21.020 - Except that when you're talking about a whole system, 00:39:21.020 --> 00:39:23.300 the progesterone is also protecting 00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:27.420 against the inflamed system with its beta-glucuronidase. 00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:30.380 And so it's tending to stop that process too. 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:31.580 So the more you take, 00:39:31.580 --> 00:39:34.380 basically the more stable everything is. 00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:38.900 It inhibits the glucuronidase and the sulfatase 00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:40.860 which reactivate estrogen 00:39:40.860 --> 00:39:44.700 and it activates the transferases of sulfate 00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:47.900 and glucuronide to inactivate estrogen. 00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:51.380 And it has a similarly organized effect 00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:53.900 on the various dehydrogenases 00:39:53.900 --> 00:39:56.820 that reduce the activity of estradiol 00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:59.300 and the opposing systems. 00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:01.580 It has the same protective effect 00:40:01.580 --> 00:40:06.540 on preventing the activation of estrone back to estradiol. 00:40:06.540 --> 00:40:10.780 So everything progesterone does in reference to estrogen, 00:40:10.780 --> 00:40:13.380 there are at least 11 things that I've counted 00:40:13.380 --> 00:40:16.180 that it consistently, everywhere you look, 00:40:16.180 --> 00:40:17.820 is anti-estrogenic. 00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:21.220 So I think it's all a suggestibility. 00:40:21.220 --> 00:40:24.620 One of the first times I experienced that 00:40:24.620 --> 00:40:27.780 was a pregnant woman said progesterone 00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:29.380 was having some strange effect 00:40:29.380 --> 00:40:31.820 and I asked her how much she had taken. 00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:34.740 And she said she put it on her wrist, 00:40:34.740 --> 00:40:37.940 a dime-sized area on her wrist. 00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:40.180 And she had heard about transdermal use 00:40:40.180 --> 00:40:44.060 of scopolamine or such thing for travel sickness. 00:40:44.060 --> 00:40:47.140 And she was putting one drop in one spot 00:40:47.140 --> 00:40:48.900 and thinking it should have an effect. 00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:51.540 If you take a minuscule amount 00:40:51.540 --> 00:40:53.540 and then look at your symptoms, 00:40:53.540 --> 00:40:55.660 you're bound to notice some symptom 00:40:55.660 --> 00:40:58.900 that has nothing to do with the microscopic amount 00:40:58.900 --> 00:40:59.900 you've absorbed. 00:40:59.900 --> 00:41:02.460 - So besides not taking enough, 00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:05.100 which you've detailed in your progesterone summaries article, 00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:06.780 I think you've also mentioned things like 00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:08.940 thyroid function being too low 00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:13.300 and/or vitamin D deficiency could cause those symptoms, 00:41:13.300 --> 00:41:15.500 not necessarily because of the progesterone, 00:41:15.500 --> 00:41:18.620 but because of these other inflammatory aspects 00:41:18.620 --> 00:41:20.780 that the person is already dealing with. 00:41:20.780 --> 00:41:24.260 - Yeah, one person said she had no effect 00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:26.060 from taking 100 milligrams, 00:41:26.060 --> 00:41:29.180 a fourth of a teaspoon of the progeste 00:41:29.180 --> 00:41:31.860 and asked her to repeat the dose. 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:35.540 If she took as much as 400 milligrams a teaspoon 00:41:35.540 --> 00:41:37.380 and still didn't feel anything. 00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:40.260 And when she had her blood tested, 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.620 her estrogen was the highest I've ever seen. 00:41:43.620 --> 00:41:47.300 It was 100 times higher than the estrogen should have been. 00:41:47.300 --> 00:41:51.060 And when your estrogen reaches a certain point, 00:41:51.060 --> 00:41:53.940 there's no absorptive capacity, 00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:56.580 no carrying capacity into the blood 00:41:56.580 --> 00:41:59.900 that can carry enough progesterone to have an effect. 00:41:59.900 --> 00:42:01.140 And for those people, 00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:03.180 it's necessary to work on the liver, 00:42:03.180 --> 00:42:05.580 feeding the liver protein or B vitamins, 00:42:05.580 --> 00:42:08.900 whatever it needs to start detoxifying the estrogen 00:42:08.900 --> 00:42:11.820 and increase the thyroid if necessary 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:14.420 to make the liver metabolize the estrogen. 00:42:14.420 --> 00:42:15.780 - Well, similarly, I remember you saying 00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:19.020 that if you were drinking milk or orange juice, 00:42:19.020 --> 00:42:20.740 presuming that the orange juice was sweet 00:42:20.740 --> 00:42:23.580 and not tart or sour, that it could cause, 00:42:23.580 --> 00:42:26.460 or some people will say like, oh, it really bloats me. 00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:28.340 And in my experience, 00:42:28.340 --> 00:42:31.740 and my experience was made more clear by you saying 00:42:31.740 --> 00:42:33.940 that, oh, sometimes when you drink liquids, 00:42:33.940 --> 00:42:36.500 it makes inflammation in the intestine more noticeable. 00:42:36.500 --> 00:42:38.180 I thought that was really profound 00:42:38.180 --> 00:42:39.540 because not only did I feel like 00:42:39.540 --> 00:42:41.340 I really had experienced it, 00:42:41.340 --> 00:42:44.420 but many people will say similar things. 00:42:44.420 --> 00:42:46.380 And I think it's maybe just speaking 00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:48.820 to the prevalency of intestinal inflammation. 00:42:48.820 --> 00:42:52.260 - Yeah, and the word bloat has various meanings. 00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:56.100 Some people who have one or two ounces of liquid 00:42:56.100 --> 00:43:00.580 around their intestines verified by ultrasound or such, 00:43:00.580 --> 00:43:04.940 just a small amount of fluid in the abdominal cavity 00:43:04.940 --> 00:43:08.300 can create a sensation of fullness. 00:43:08.300 --> 00:43:10.620 And some people refer to that as bloat 00:43:10.620 --> 00:43:12.500 or an enlarged uterus. 00:43:12.500 --> 00:43:14.740 Some people feel bloated. 00:43:14.740 --> 00:43:16.380 But when it's digestive, 00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:19.420 if you aren't digesting your carbohydrate, 00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:22.540 the bacteria can produce a large amount of gas. 00:43:22.540 --> 00:43:25.540 And the usual traditional meaning of bloat 00:43:25.540 --> 00:43:27.620 was accumulated gas. 00:43:27.620 --> 00:43:30.620 And the test for that is just to thump your belly 00:43:30.620 --> 00:43:32.140 with your fingers. 00:43:32.140 --> 00:43:34.060 You can tap it in different places 00:43:34.060 --> 00:43:37.100 and find exactly where there's a gas deposit if there is. 00:43:37.100 --> 00:43:40.780 - I think that's all the questions I have for you. 00:43:40.780 --> 00:43:42.140 What are you working on right now, Ray? 00:43:42.140 --> 00:43:45.060 - Cholesterol and then progesterone 00:43:45.060 --> 00:43:46.740 will be my next newsletters. 00:43:46.740 --> 00:43:51.380 Thinking about the evolutionary, in every sense, 00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:55.700 implications and meaning of cholesterol and progesterone. 00:43:55.700 --> 00:43:57.900 - Awesome, you have been so generous with your time. 00:43:57.900 --> 00:43:59.260 My sincere thanks. 00:43:59.260 --> 00:44:00.100 Thank you so much, Ray. 00:44:00.100 --> 00:44:01.500 It's always a pleasure and I'll talk to you soon. 00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:02.340 - Okay, thanks. 00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:04.940 (upbeat music) 00:44:04.940 --> 00:44:16.180 - That's gonna conclude this week's episode. 00:44:16.180 --> 00:44:18.380 I'd like to thank Ray again for talking with me today 00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:21.260 along with my patrons for their support of the show 00:44:21.260 --> 00:44:23.100 and all the content I produce. 00:44:23.100 --> 00:44:25.020 If I didn't have patrons, I couldn't do any of this. 00:44:25.020 --> 00:44:26.860 So I sincerely appreciate it. 00:44:26.860 --> 00:44:28.500 As always, if you enjoyed the show, 00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:29.980 please hit the like button on YouTube 00:44:29.980 --> 00:44:33.100 and leave a comment or a constructive criticism below. 00:44:33.100 --> 00:44:35.780 I always say this, but I have an amazing listenership 00:44:35.780 --> 00:44:37.900 and I'm extremely fortunate for anybody 00:44:37.900 --> 00:44:40.220 to care about anything that I do. 00:44:40.220 --> 00:44:42.780 This show was extremely fun for me 00:44:42.780 --> 00:44:46.140 and it just seemed like a nice free flowing conversation. 00:44:46.140 --> 00:44:49.060 It's actually the second conversation that we had done. 00:44:49.060 --> 00:44:52.580 I first got Ray on the phone and we talked about calcium. 00:44:52.580 --> 00:44:55.300 Then I had to fill in some gaps with that show 00:44:55.300 --> 00:44:56.780 and I got him on the phone again. 00:44:56.780 --> 00:44:59.140 And I liked the second conversation so much better 00:44:59.140 --> 00:45:01.060 that I decided to go with that one. 00:45:01.060 --> 00:45:04.260 I will probably release snippets from the first show 00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:06.300 just to tie everything together. 00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:08.860 But really thanks to Ray for getting on the phone with me 00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:12.180 twice and bearing with me through these questions. 00:45:12.180 --> 00:45:13.460 So thank you so much, Ray. 00:45:13.460 --> 00:45:14.740 And thanks again for listening. 00:45:14.740 --> 00:45:16.140 I'll talk to you guys soon. 00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:18.720 (upbeat music) 00:45:18.720 --> 00:45:21.300 (upbeat music) 00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:24.480 (upbeat music) 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:27.060 (upbeat music) 00:45:27.060 --> 00:45:29.640 (upbeat music) 00:45:29.640 --> 00:45:39.640 [BLANK_AUDIO]