WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:21.360 [Music] 00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:25.440 Hello everyone, I'm Danny Roudy of DannyRoudy.com, and today I'm talking with painter, philosopher, 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.360 biologist, Raymond Peat. In this hour-long episode, we'll talk about a Vernadskyian 00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:33.600 view of evolution, fostering an environment for human potential, and implications for 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:38.440 a self-regulating, self-ordering society, and so much more. In addition to thanking 00:00:38.440 --> 00:00:41.640 Ray for talking with me today, I'd like to thank my patrons for making this show and 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.760 all of the content I produce possible. If you would like to become a patron, please 00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:50.680 go to patreon.com/dannyroudy. Ray's newsletter is available by email now, it's $28 for 00:00:50.680 --> 00:00:58.640 a total of 6 newsletters delivered bi-monthly, and you can subscribe by sending $28 to raypeatsnewsletter@gmail.com. 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:01.920 As always, please do your own research and come to your own conclusions, and in the spirit 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:05.640 of William Blake, the true method of knowledge is experiment. Without further ado, here's 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:06.640 the show. 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:07.640 [Music] 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:13.720 I loved your quote, "Without a realistic view of where you are, you can't expect to go anywhere." 00:01:13.720 --> 00:01:20.920 And I thought of not only optimizing the environment, but also thinking about how you formed as 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:25.500 an individual in your early life to now. Because a lot of times I'll be talking to somebody 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:29.840 and they'll say something like, "Oh, my health problem started a year ago," or "It started 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:34.320 two years ago." And then you'll talk to them more and you'll realize things have been happening 00:01:34.320 --> 00:01:37.900 like their whole life and unravel this relationship with stress. 00:01:37.900 --> 00:01:44.760 And so going through your work, I highlighted aeromorphosis from the evolution of the biosphere, 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:50.320 just like the general idea of energy inducing complexity, and thinking that that was just 00:01:50.320 --> 00:01:56.520 like something that is probably pretty important to nail down. And then I highlighted LaShaw 00:01:56.520 --> 00:02:04.080 Tia's principle of restoration and disturbed equilibrium. And going into Saba's view of 00:02:04.080 --> 00:02:08.240 hormonal imprinting, and I know you probably have your own view on that, but that was just 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.020 like my point of reference for that idea. 00:02:11.020 --> 00:02:18.080 From there, going into the precautionary principle of modifying the environment, and also looking 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:24.680 at your past and trying to, I don't know, erase the imprints to maintain a good sense 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:33.000 of euphoria. And I love that quote by Jose Ortega Gasset, who says that, "I am myself 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:34.480 plus my circumstances." 00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:45.000 Yeah. Pavlov, everyone seems to end up at that point realizing that you can't separate 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:50.320 yourself as something separate from your circumstances. 00:02:50.320 --> 00:02:56.140 In your newsletter, you were just talking about progesterone being this main substance 00:02:56.140 --> 00:02:58.440 guiding the development of the individual. 00:02:58.440 --> 00:03:07.400 Yeah. The thing that holds you together while you respond in an energetically directional 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:14.720 way, the progesterone prevents the energy from disintegrating you. It's one of the most 00:03:14.720 --> 00:03:22.440 powerful stabilizers. Carbon dioxide has a similar structurally stabilizing effect. And 00:03:22.440 --> 00:03:30.320 then that creates the unified system, which can respond in a unified and directional way. 00:03:30.320 --> 00:03:36.520 If something's interfering with the general energy production or the steroids, that's 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:38.760 when—I'm just going to read what you had written. 00:03:38.760 --> 00:03:44.600 So Lauscheti's principle that a system adjusts in ways which restore a disturbed equilibrium 00:03:44.600 --> 00:03:50.880 is behind this idea. Every part of the flow can be seen as a disequilibrium, and the complexification 00:03:50.880 --> 00:03:56.600 of the structure tends to absorb the disturbing energy. So the more energy, the more complex. 00:03:56.600 --> 00:04:01.040 When that's interfered with, that's, I guess, when the health problems start to form or 00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:02.840 the structure becomes imperfect. 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:06.480 Say the last part again. When what? 00:04:06.480 --> 00:04:11.680 Absorbing the complexification of the structure and the development of the person. 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:19.520 We're always having a flow of energy. That flow itself is disturbing the equilibrium, 00:04:19.520 --> 00:04:28.000 and it's tending to absorb energy and turn it into structure. Anytime you flow energy 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:36.680 through a system, it is creative and creates structure. And the particularities of the 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:43.600 structure that forms under that response to Lauscheti's principle, structure is always 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:50.160 going to form, but it has the option to take on different shapes according to the shape 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:53.560 of the stress that you're putting on the system. 00:04:53.560 --> 00:05:01.560 There's a new young physicist who, I don't know if he's still at MIT, but he was working 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:11.160 there, Jeremy England, who has been demonstrating basically the fact that the universe isn't 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:19.560 controlled by the second law of thermodynamics. He says that if you start with a random clump 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:26.160 of atoms and shine light on it long enough, it shouldn't be surprising that you end up 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:33.800 with a plant. That is something that ever since Le Chatelier and Vernadsky, basically 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:42.760 it's restating what Vernadsky said, that the sun generates large-brained animals, basically. 00:05:42.760 --> 00:05:51.720 And in Jeremy England's phrase, if you create a plant by shining light on random atoms, 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:59.200 if you shine enough, bright enough light, you'll eventually get large-brained mammals 00:05:59.200 --> 00:06:07.080 because the ordering principle of a directed flow of energy is going to create a complexity. 00:06:07.080 --> 00:06:14.560 And whatever the surrounding conditions are where you're disturbing the equilibrium, it's 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:22.360 going to conform to those boundary conditions. So it will take a shape responding to everything 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:28.280 in the environment. But it's the flow of energy which is responsible for the growing complexity. 00:06:28.280 --> 00:06:34.340 Ray, I had sent to you an older quote that you had that said, "I came to see literary 00:06:34.340 --> 00:06:40.040 periods or styles, classical realist, romantic, surrealist, et cetera, as reflections of a 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:46.480 society's energy and structure." And that got me thinking of so many people are saying 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:54.040 things like, "I would like to shape the world in this type of point of view," or, "I would 00:06:54.040 --> 00:07:02.000 like this system." And given that quote and this idea behind energy complexifying forests 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:08.120 and this general rule of nature, I was thinking that it was possible that people were talking 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:10.680 about these things out of context. 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:17.840 And then it made me feel like the realization that how much of this is even within my control 00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:23.760 and how much of it should I even worry about if the Earth's metabolism or the universe's 00:07:23.760 --> 00:07:30.320 metabolism is guiding the direction of everything. Does that make any sense? 00:07:30.320 --> 00:07:39.640 Yeah, the natural tendency of things to have dinosaurs grow up to a huge size and then 00:07:39.640 --> 00:07:47.240 mammals come in and grow bigger brains, those are basically guided just by the surrounding 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:54.320 competitive innovations of matter. The sun and the internal energy of the Earth are supplying 00:07:54.320 --> 00:08:01.720 the streaming energy, and then the shape, particular shape that things take is a reflection 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:11.320 of who else is around absorbing that energy. So plants come up, and if the Earth is warm, 00:08:11.320 --> 00:08:19.960 the plants will make not only carbohydrates, but will make saturated fats. And the expanding 00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:27.680 brains of the contemporary animals eating those plants with saturated fats will thrive 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:31.000 integrating the saturated fats into their brain. 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:39.040 But if for some reason the big brains move into a cold climate and eat plants that are 00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:45.240 defending against freezing, they'll start ingesting polyunsaturated fats into their 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:52.920 brain, and their brains will suffer and be limited in proportion to how much of the cold 00:08:52.920 --> 00:08:59.800 climate polyunsaturated fats get into their brains. So that creates accelerated aging 00:08:59.800 --> 00:09:09.000 and lots of other problems. So if everyone had stayed put, we might have just been on 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:19.400 a straight line to a very happy big-brained population eating nice tropical oily fruits. 00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:28.760 But besides the going off into very unhospitable environments at the poles, under those tense 00:09:28.760 --> 00:09:37.600 circumstances, people started exploiting each other. Instead of having more or less egalitarian 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:45.480 situation of the tribes in a very favorable climate, they started getting competitive 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:53.560 and creating control situations where some people would work as slaves so that a few 00:09:53.560 --> 00:10:02.720 people could have a better life. And the authoritarian warlike sadistic cultures reflect the distorting 00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:11.760 power of scarcity, natural scarcity and natural competition. Then if those populations survive, 00:10:11.760 --> 00:10:20.520 they tend to conquer and become dominant. And as they become a unified authoritarian 00:10:20.520 --> 00:10:27.400 civilization in the temperate zones, then they will in various ways create ideologies 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:35.560 that justify what they're doing, ideologies of basically caste systems, slavery and competition. 00:10:35.560 --> 00:10:43.080 And you'll come up with the idea of competition and survival of the fittest. And then applying 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:51.400 those ideas, various forms of education and advertising and indoctrination will expand 00:10:51.400 --> 00:10:55.720 and complexify those authoritarian exploitative processes. 00:10:55.720 --> 00:11:01.280 So it's just like altered the course of human history by singing the praises of competition 00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:02.280 and things like that. 00:11:02.280 --> 00:11:06.360 Yeah. Making an institution out of competition. 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:12.320 I reread Stephen Jay Gould's Kropotkin was no crackpot and I've just been reading more 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:17.120 about cooperation in general. And I was curious, I think a lot of people have like a knee jerk 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:22.520 reaction to it that they think it's like a utopian hell when you say something like cooperation. 00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:29.760 And so I was curious if you thought my friend Eric Lapine, he translated an article from 00:11:29.760 --> 00:11:36.800 a gentleman named Ruin Olgian and a phrase that stuck out to me was he asked the question 00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:41.520 of how do we reconcile the greatest individual liberty possible while preserving the greatest 00:11:41.520 --> 00:11:47.040 equality within a community? And he called this like a fundamental political paradox. 00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:51.400 Now I was curious if one, if you actually thought it was a paradox and what does, and 00:11:51.400 --> 00:11:54.240 what does cooperation even look like on a grand scale? 00:11:54.240 --> 00:12:01.800 I think it's just a matter of being able to step back from the culture in one of these 00:12:01.800 --> 00:12:07.800 authoritarian societies. When someone steps back and questions, they tend to get kicked 00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:15.080 out and have to go look for some other tribe to belong to because the authoritarians don't 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:22.480 tolerate questioning and opposition. They indoctrinate everyone that competition is 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:28.640 good, but they do everything to eliminate competition. So the ideology of the United 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:36.680 States has been competitive free enterprise, they used to say. And the basic business in 00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:43.280 reality has been the elimination of competition, using government whenever possible to eliminate 00:12:43.280 --> 00:12:53.600 the competition, but also forming organizations, non-competitive, anti-competitive systems 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:54.600 economically. 00:12:54.600 --> 00:13:02.280 Ray, I know you've written favorably about Stalin, Lenin, Marx, and just I guess the 00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:08.640 general idea of communism. And I was curious if you thought those terms or people's ideas 00:13:08.640 --> 00:13:13.400 were being misrepresented or perverted in some way, just because in the limited amount 00:13:13.400 --> 00:13:19.040 of news that I introduce into my life, you hear terms like cultural Marxism or talking 00:13:19.040 --> 00:13:23.120 about Stalin and these people as being just the worst people on the planet. I was curious 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:24.560 on your thoughts on that. 00:13:24.560 --> 00:13:31.360 About 65 years ago, I saw a book called Communism and Christianity, and I don't have any idea 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:38.520 who wrote it, but it was observing that Marx's basic ideas apparently came from Christian 00:13:38.520 --> 00:13:47.080 ethics. And if you take Christian ethics seriously, then you start thinking like Marx or at least 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:55.240 the anarchists or communitarians of the 19th century. You think if those ethics are valid, 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.840 what can we do to observe them? 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.720 Can you get into more of the ethics? I feel like people play semantics a lot of times 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:06.200 here, and it's like, what do these specific words mean? Or I guess just if you could explore 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.240 that a little bit more. 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:15.720 If you look at the do under others ethic, and then you look without a Darwinian bias, 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:21.560 you know, Darwin believed that everything English was superior, that English plants 00:14:21.560 --> 00:14:29.520 even would displace the species when they were transplanted the way the superior English 00:14:29.520 --> 00:14:38.360 men would displace other races of people because of the natural superiority of everything English. 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:47.900 If you can get away from that fairly psychotic view of biology and actually look at the behavior 00:14:47.900 --> 00:14:57.980 of squirrels or mice, any birds in general, they all are aware of their surroundings and 00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:05.240 are inclined to be altruistic and benevolent, not destructive and aggressive. Aggression 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:12.720 is a very peculiar and unusual part of the behavior in most species. When their intelligence 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:19.160 is allowed to act, they make it obvious that they are experiencing empathy, even with different 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:21.360 species, but especially with their own species. 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:27.220 Reyes, just to play devil's advocate, sometimes people say that when we try to intervene, 00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:34.520 or at least the complex apparatus of the US government tries to intervene in situations 00:15:34.520 --> 00:15:40.260 like using welfare to help people, it becomes a nightmare situation. Do you think that's 00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:42.040 accurate, or what do you think? 00:15:42.040 --> 00:15:51.080 I think that is just a story that has been invented to put down the do-gooders. There 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:58.880 have been people who were supported by big corporations and/or governments to write popular 00:15:58.880 --> 00:16:08.360 stories to make movies to illustrate that. Ronald Reagan got his ideology from some of 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:15.880 these political fictions that promoted that idea, anti-Dickens approach to society. 00:16:15.880 --> 00:16:21.080 I was watching not too long ago an interesting conversation between Webster Tarpley, and 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:30.040 I forget the libertarian person, but Webster was explaining how if you cut the food stamps, 00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:35.480 you basically have a genocide on your hands, and you'd have a bunch of Americans that were 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:44.360 destitute. It was just the idea of the government being the problem, but if you get rid of the 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.680 government programs, you're immediately in this worse position if you do that. 00:16:49.680 --> 00:16:56.720 If you do that, a bunch of corporations will disappear, and rich people will be desperate 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:03.880 to find a new way to undo that, because the corporations are constantly being defended 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:10.600 by government power. Police and armies are there to make the corporate ruling class stable 00:17:10.600 --> 00:17:17.160 and secure, and they talk about the welfare keeping people from starving, but it's the 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:23.760 government that is keeping them poor that creates the starvation by following the rules 00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:30.040 of whatever the corporations want to write into the economic system. Every aspect of 00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:38.720 the culture has been designed to favor corporate exploitation, and the poverty expands in proportion 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:46.000 to the power of corporations over government. So the story that people need welfare to prevent 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:53.320 starvation, that's a very downstream part of the story. First you create the starvation, 00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:56.720 and then you decide whether to alleviate it slightly. 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:03.480 I've been reading a little bit about structural violence, and James Gilligan in his 1997 paper 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:08.160 defines structural violence as the increased rates of death and disability suffered by 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:14.200 those who occupy the bottom rungs of society as contrasted with the relatively lower death 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:21.120 rates experienced by those who are above them. Gilligan largely describes these excess deaths 00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:26.320 as non-natural and attributes them to stress, shame, discrimination, and the denigration 00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:31.480 that results from lower status. Do you think that's a worthwhile concept and kind of fits 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:32.480 into what we're talking about? 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:41.800 Oh yeah. Just the rules regarding corporations and labor unions, for example. The unions 00:18:41.800 --> 00:18:50.240 have very restrictive things that they can do collectively. Corporations now have absolutely 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:56.200 no restrictions. They can spend whatever they want controlling political information. Just 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:02.240 the organizational rules that are built into the system, removing those would make a tremendous 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:08.960 difference. The whole structure, any structure we can see is there for the purpose of exploitation, 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:16.920 and the alleviation of the suffering is just a way of preventing hysterical uprisings here 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:17.920 and there. 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:24.640 If people were to rise up and be opposed to the imposed systems that we're all privy to, 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:29.000 is violence something that's sometimes necessary or is it always vile? 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:37.120 Well, when Martin Luther King said that white people are being exploited and sent to kill 00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:45.240 foreigners for the good of the corporate class, that was very antagonistic to the military 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:51.720 and corporate factions and led to his being killed. Anytime someone suggests even moderate 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:58.480 approaches to changing the system, they suffer violence. They don't have to propose violence. 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:05.360 He was absolutely against violence from either side, but no matter how much you advocate 00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:11.000 nonviolence, you're going to experience it if you do anything that threatens the system. 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.520 Stepping back just a little bit, can we talk about hormonal imprinting? I don't know if 00:20:15.520 --> 00:20:20.440 you've ever actually talked about it on an interview, but I could be wrong. The basic 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:28.640 idea behind a cellular protein being a protein in a cell that binds to certain substances 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:32.040 while they have an effect on other cells? 00:20:32.040 --> 00:20:41.200 Chaba, who has done so much research on hormonal imprinting, has the explanation that he has 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:48.560 some evidence for showing that the receptor is created specifically for what the cell 00:20:48.560 --> 00:20:56.400 is experiencing. That reminds me of a paper that I saw when I was in a developmental biology 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:03.520 seminar, as someone had accidentally put in this Xerox of a study from the '30s in which 00:21:03.520 --> 00:21:14.040 they presented a protein to a culture of bacteria and then removed the protein, washed the bacteria, 00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:20.200 treated them with an enzyme to break down the protein, washed them again, had very clean 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:27.320 bacteria and then cultured them, and large amounts of that same protein kept appearing 00:21:27.320 --> 00:21:33.800 in the culture, very strongly showing that the bacteria had learned to copy a foreign 00:21:33.800 --> 00:21:35.000 protein. 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:42.800 After I mentioned that and went back to make a Xerox for myself, the article had disappeared 00:21:42.800 --> 00:21:57.640 from the box where our seminar papers were. Someone cleansed the document box. 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:02.760 These systems are imposed on us and we're all being actively harmed all the time. I 00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:09.240 imagine these—I'm saying his name wrong. What was it? Chaba? He mentioned serotonin 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:16.920 frequently and serotonin as being this type of switch back to the primitive metabolism 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:22.600 and that having a very profound effect on our perception of ourselves, of the world, 00:22:22.600 --> 00:22:28.480 of possibilities and things like that. Just your general thinking of erasing these imprints 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:32.600 and maintaining—and I had to look up what euphoria meant exactly, but it's just like 00:22:32.600 --> 00:22:34.920 maintaining a good feeling, right? 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:42.640 Yeah, and it consists of a balance in which structure is at least maintained by the flow 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:49.880 of energy and it's only in that state where you can advance to increase your structure 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:57.400 and perfection. If you are far from the euphoric condition, it means you're basically degenerating 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:05.840 structurally, aging, deteriorating, and maintaining the euphoric state is therapeutic. That's 00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:13.520 what happens when you eat progesterone, take active thyroid T3 or pregnenolone or sugar 00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:19.480 or breathe the right amount of carbon dioxide. Everything that doesn't cause injury and does 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:25.800 cause energy or stability is going to lead you towards a greater stability. 00:23:25.800 --> 00:23:31.600 Thyroid, pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone, testosterone, cholesterol, vitamin D, sugar 00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:39.240 all support that functionality. Besides those things, is there anything that you're very 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:47.960 concerned with, EMF or the general air quality or water quality or all of those things? 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:56.320 Yeah, the estrogenic toxins in the water are a major thing, but the corruption of the food 00:23:56.320 --> 00:24:04.240 supply is probably the most important for the most people. The miseducation of people 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:12.720 to think that vegetable oil is better than butterfat and to think that complex carbohydrates 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:20.680 for some reason are good or sugars are bad. It's sort of a perversion of the government 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:27.040 intervention to help poor people survive in the Great Depression. They said, "Here are 00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:34.880 beans and grains that are very cheap and recipes to make them palatable and so on." But by 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:41.840 the 1970s, they were saying even middle-class people should eat these for various reasons, 00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:44.520 supposedly for your actual health. 00:24:44.520 --> 00:24:48.520 One of my favorite quotes from you is when somebody was asking you about trauma and you 00:24:48.520 --> 00:24:53.540 said, "Nothing is stored. It's like the pasts are all present in the same room and we periodically 00:24:53.540 --> 00:24:58.200 have a different perspective on them. When the present balance of stuff, toxicants, euphorians, 00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:03.620 etc. is good, you can think and feel what you want to about things." And we were talking 00:25:03.620 --> 00:25:08.520 earlier about the general, like everybody is being harmed actively by our culture and 00:25:08.520 --> 00:25:16.440 society. And thank goodness nothing horribly traumatic has ever happened to me in my lifetime. 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:21.920 But I do know that incorporating some of the things you talk about has allowed me to gain 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:28.520 some kind of stability in my life, which was definitely missing in my teens and 20s. For 00:25:28.520 --> 00:25:34.440 example, girls were like a constant source of pain. And if a girl didn't message me back 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:41.200 or call me back, I would just be torn up for months about it. So I was curious if somebody 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.960 had a very, very traumatic childhood or some kind of event in their life. Is there any 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:52.280 therapy or a thing that you thought was especially useful for those very serious traumas? 00:25:52.280 --> 00:26:00.960 I think even the big traumas are processed in the same way. Everyone is massively traumatized 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:13.160 by being born into Europe or America and having a deformed body part or an emotional intense 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:21.160 experience. Those are fairly minor compared to the big framework that is institutionalized 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:30.240 traumatism. Look at Gabor Maté, how well he turned out after surviving Nazism. 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:35.400 He's incredible. I was just watching an interview with him and then something he had about a 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:42.360 critique on capitalism. And I don't know of anybody that is as articulate as him about 00:26:42.360 --> 00:26:44.800 these topics. It's just mind blowing. 00:26:44.800 --> 00:26:52.160 Yeah, he wasn't harmed permanently by terrible experiences. Everyone who survived had the 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:59.600 possibility of realizing those same forces are around us all the time and we have to 00:26:59.600 --> 00:27:01.700 constantly overcome them. 00:27:01.700 --> 00:27:06.040 In Ernest Shatchell's book, Metamorphosis on the Development of Affect, Perception, 00:27:06.040 --> 00:27:10.560 Attention, and Memory, he says, "The drive to seek out and explore the new is the strongest 00:27:10.560 --> 00:27:17.040 in childhood of animals and men. It's the period of exploratory play. As they mature, 00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:22.000 one we see in higher mammals and in most men, a slackening of this ceasing of curiosity, 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:27.840 fascination, playful exploration, excitement, enthusiasm. The open world has now turned 00:27:27.840 --> 00:27:33.400 into a variety of objects with signal qualities or into objects of use to which certain adaptive 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:34.880 responses are given." 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:40.180 And Ray, not to put you on a spot, but I think of you as a good example of somebody who's 00:27:40.180 --> 00:27:48.360 been able to maintain the excitement because compared to you, I feel like I'm so ridiculously 00:27:48.360 --> 00:27:55.440 unproductive. And so I just feel like you're a good example of that. Do you see it similarly 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:56.960 to how Ernest stated? 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:04.180 Yeah, exactly. I think it's the language culture, the language bearing the story that they are 00:28:04.180 --> 00:28:13.460 trying to indoctrinate us with that turns adults away from exploration and innovation. 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:21.160 The reason I got interested in studying linguistics was from puberty, I started experimenting 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:28.100 with language and the actual machine of my consciousness and what language was doing 00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:36.680 to that apparatus. And for about 65 or more years, I've been experimenting with how to 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:42.440 separate myself from the English language in particular, but from language in general 00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:48.480 and to see the processes of consciousness. And that's the sort of thing that Kropotkin 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:56.180 couldn't avoid seeing when he studied nature. If you really watch animals, you see that 00:28:56.180 --> 00:29:02.680 they are behaving more intelligently than most of the people we read about in the news 00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:10.000 or see on television. I've watched ants a lot and each ant is an individual and very 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:17.560 communicative if you watch their body language. Birds, the same. Each bird is an individual 00:29:17.560 --> 00:29:25.600 and they remember people. I assume they remember other species, but they are very tuned in 00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:33.320 to our body language and to each other's. And people create the illusion that communication 00:29:33.320 --> 00:29:40.080 happens through words and language where the basic communication is being aware of where 00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:48.240 you are and the language most often is a way of making people less conscious rather than 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:55.260 actually communicating something of use. It tends to reinforce those patterns that are 00:29:55.260 --> 00:30:01.120 indoctrinated and cover up, suppress the urge to explore. 00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:07.640 This is one of the reasons that for yourself you do like the sculpting and painting and 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:12.920 music and those are activities to turn off the language, right? 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:22.920 And just paying attention to sleep. That's what your consciousness machine is doing for 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:31.440 you. For Pavlov, the cortex of the brain was like an interface between everything happening 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:37.820 in the world and everything happening inside your body. And it's a constant adjustment 00:30:37.820 --> 00:30:47.640 of your inner workings and the outside possibilities. And if you step out of the language system, 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:55.580 anytime you step out of the language culture, you come in contact with your cerebral cortex, 00:30:55.580 --> 00:31:05.640 which is an interaction between your kidneys and pancreas and intestine and heart and consoles 00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:14.520 everything and everything around you and the possibilities of what's to come and selected 00:31:14.520 --> 00:31:21.220 parts of your past experience. But you select the part of your past that you think will 00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:24.560 be useful for what is to come. 00:31:24.560 --> 00:31:28.100 Days that you do more arts and less reading, do you notice that it has an effect on your 00:31:28.100 --> 00:31:29.100 dream? 00:31:29.100 --> 00:31:32.980 Oh yeah. Everything affects the dreams, the hormones, the amount of sugar. 00:31:32.980 --> 00:31:37.780 If someone wasn't dreaming at all or was having overly intense nightmarish dreams, would that 00:31:37.780 --> 00:31:39.780 be a basic feature of hypothyroidism? 00:31:39.780 --> 00:31:48.060 Yeah. The deep sleep doesn't necessarily involve dreams. If something is disturbing you, then 00:31:48.060 --> 00:31:54.160 you will try to work it out in the dreams, just the same way you work things out in reality. 00:31:54.160 --> 00:32:00.260 And when the dream catches some emotional energy, if you can remember that and become 00:32:00.260 --> 00:32:06.020 conscious with it, the dream can make the emotional energy available to you during the 00:32:06.020 --> 00:32:10.900 day to work out parts of reality that need work on. 00:32:10.900 --> 00:32:15.780 Silly question, but is the dreaming part of the innate animal intelligence as opposed 00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:20.900 to, I don't know, the cultural caricature that we're all kind of looking through during 00:32:20.900 --> 00:32:21.900 the daytime? 00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:31.820 Yeah, the animal intelligence is always there offering itself and our daily cultural consciousness 00:32:31.820 --> 00:32:39.460 is distracting us from watching. I see it like a set of projectors that are working 00:32:39.460 --> 00:32:49.940 with resources from inner body senses and stored images. The body is projecting possibilities, 00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:55.540 trying to bring them to your attention for you to work on consciously. But ordinarily, 00:32:55.540 --> 00:33:02.620 the consciousness that tries to handle those intrinsic body deliveries to your awareness, 00:33:02.620 --> 00:33:08.620 the consciousness tends to stop the process or deform it. So I think a kind of passive 00:33:08.620 --> 00:33:15.060 attitude towards watching what your body is trying to do is similar to watching what ants 00:33:15.060 --> 00:33:22.960 or birds or other animals are trying to express. Treat your body as if it was a bit of nature 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.760 and watch what it's trying to tell you to do. 00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:30.900 It's so funny that you mention a passive approach to the body. Just thinking back in my own 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:36.660 experience, it always seemed like I had this aggressive salt the earth approach to like 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:42.980 whatever I would do or just the idea that every problem was a nail and that I was the 00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:48.160 hammer just to be as aggressive as possible with every single problem I thought I had. 00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:54.780 You can have a tremendous amount of energy in the passivity, but it's passivity in relation 00:33:54.780 --> 00:34:01.960 to the fictional character, like the role society tells us to play. It's like a fictional 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:10.660 role in a melodrama. If you detach yourself from that cultural self, then the passivity 00:34:10.660 --> 00:34:17.980 actually gains energy that you can appreciate the full intensity of the problem you're confronting. 00:34:17.980 --> 00:34:22.580 Besides the arts, is there anything else you can think of that fosters those kinds of feelings? 00:34:22.580 --> 00:34:27.860 I don't know, avoiding the news or doing anything else like meditation or anything? 00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:36.900 Being around people who are open to consideration of actual parts of reality, I think that's 00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:44.100 a very powerful part of our nervous system is how we feel ourselves resonate with other 00:34:44.100 --> 00:34:51.980 people the way Jeremy England says shining light on a random clump of atoms will produce 00:34:51.980 --> 00:34:58.900 an organism. If you have a random clump of people, the natural process of resonance is 00:34:58.900 --> 00:35:07.260 going to create interesting things. So anything that you can do by yourself happens more intensely. 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:14.560 There's more freedom to become yourself when you can resonate with other people. For example, 00:35:14.560 --> 00:35:19.860 people have put brain cells isolated from a brain, put them in a culture dish and feed 00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:26.740 them for a few days. They start vibrating together. They learn to act like a brain. 00:35:26.740 --> 00:35:32.800 And if you put people together without pressure and demands from the outside, they will come 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:40.060 up with solutions. That would be sort of an ideology that you can expect more intelligent 00:35:40.060 --> 00:35:47.340 solutions to come out of a group of people than any individual trying to impose an ideology. 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:52.040 In regards to what you said about the group people, I know Tolstoy said that everyone 00:35:52.040 --> 00:35:56.900 thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. At least in regards to 00:35:56.900 --> 00:36:02.980 politics, it seems like the people thinking about changing it are kind of in a constant 00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:08.580 state of spinning their wheels and sometimes it's making the person sick. Do you think 00:36:08.580 --> 00:36:15.360 focusing on yourself and trying to correct whatever you can given enough, the person 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:22.320 has enough energy, will create a ripple effect in society or is that not how you see it? 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:28.460 I think so. The culture has taught people that their self that they need to concentrate 00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:38.000 on is this fictional role like their caste position, social position. And I think realizing 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:44.440 that that culture that tells you who you are is also killing you. I think that's an essential 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:51.520 starting point that you want to be able to get together with other people who are aware 00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:57.520 of the hostile nature of our bigger society. So it's essential to have a group in some 00:36:57.520 --> 00:37:05.480 capacity to put the ideas into action? I think so. And the traditional ways of organizing 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:11.200 are now being monitored so carefully that they can shoot them down the moment they start 00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:19.440 to take effect. So I think the wariness of the culture is the most infectious thing that 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:27.280 can precede organization. If the recognition that medicine is mostly harming people and 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:35.120 that the foods are leading to an early diseased death, that sort of suspicion of the system 00:37:35.120 --> 00:37:42.800 and rejection of the system, I think is what can spread and proceed the actual search for 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:51.920 what to do next. The ultimate goal should be something on the order of gathering culture, 00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:57.480 not hunting and gathering, but having such a fruitful environment that we can just pick 00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:07.760 what we need, have milk goats or milk cows and fruit trees so abundant that seems like 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:13.760 the immediate way to satisfy your needs rather than going off and stealing someone's hoard 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:21.800 of soybeans or whatever. And you said in Gavin's article that you thought deleting medicine, 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:27.480 the legal system, and then the education were three things that would move in a good direction, 00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:33.160 you thought? Yeah, the government and the corporations are enforcing those things. Ivan 00:38:33.160 --> 00:38:40.200 Illich studied them in good detail, how medicine and schooling are enslaving people and harming 00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:45.320 them. I think one of the elements of schooling that he said was the worst aspect was the 00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:51.800 compulsory need to be taught. So disengaging somebody's autonomy and ability to learn by 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:58.840 themselves. A lot of the things that you've said. Yeah, the whole education system structurally, 00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:07.240 the way they define excellence has been a big part of the mental enslavement. When I 00:39:07.240 --> 00:39:13.720 first went to college, my second year, I came across a professor who was for a little state 00:39:13.720 --> 00:39:21.560 college. He was unusual. At the time I took literature from him, he was teaching five 00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:28.480 different departmental subjects. And I saw a letter he received from a dean at Harvard 00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:35.040 inviting him to come there to teach literature. But he enjoyed teaching comparative religion, 00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:42.320 contemporary philosophy, German literature, English literature, and occasional other subjects. 00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:48.920 He was an excellent teacher in everything he taught, but he didn't want to be limited 00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:56.840 to an English department. And one of my friends in Mexico at the time he was teaching anthropology 00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:05.160 at Blake College, he was teaching at I think it was 11 different universities in half a 00:40:05.160 --> 00:40:13.840 dozen different subjects. Latin, forensic medicine, history, various branches of history, 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:21.440 all sorts of anthropology and archeology, geography, and considered outstanding in every 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:27.600 field. The fact is that when you can teach a subject other than what you've been taught 00:40:27.600 --> 00:40:34.880 especially, you're going to teach that subject probably better than someone who is drilled 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:36.200 in it for 10 years. 00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:41.240 Trevor Burrus: I would regularly encounter people in San Francisco that studied medicine 00:40:41.240 --> 00:40:45.760 and not that I have any idea what I'm talking about, but I could never have a normal conversation 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:51.160 with them. And I'm passionate about the subject, so you'd think I might be able to. But wasn't 00:40:51.160 --> 00:40:57.120 it Mark's, the person that thought that there were many different aspects of a person and 00:40:57.120 --> 00:40:58.760 that you weren't just one thing? 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:06.400 Richard Dahlkamp: Yeah. And Gabor Mate was an English major. I think he's a good example. 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:12.880 Before he studied medicine and taught high school English, if you know one subject to 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:20.040 a pretty saturated degree and then approach another one, you learn the essential way to 00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:26.720 get at that subject. And someone who is teaching in the five departments can make each one 00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:31.480 more valuable than someone who teaches a single subject all their life. 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:35.480 Trevor Burrus: They're more equipped to teach those subjects with their systems thinking. 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:39.320 Before we wrap things up, did you want to talk a little bit about ontogeny, anticipates 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:47.160 phylogeny and pedomorphism and juvenileization and just go over that a little bit? I don't 00:41:47.160 --> 00:41:49.800 know why, but it's a constant source of interest to me. 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:56.720 Richard Dahlkamp: I think it's that same thing, Le Chatelier and Vernadsky. The energy available 00:41:56.720 --> 00:42:05.560 to flow through the system is extremely intense in the first processes away from the ovum. 00:42:05.560 --> 00:42:14.280 The oxygen, carbon dioxide and glucose are generously available. Your demand is small 00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:23.920 because you're only a few cells big. So you can suck up the environment at a terrific 00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:32.480 rate a thousand times faster than when you get bigger. And so the environment is just 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:40.220 pretty ideal until you get up to about the size of a peanut and then the environmental 00:42:40.220 --> 00:42:51.280 limitations start being felt. So the aeromorphosis processes where flowing energy generates complexity, 00:42:51.280 --> 00:43:00.080 that energy is zooming through your processing system, producing a huge head and eyes. Then 00:43:00.080 --> 00:43:06.760 you start running into what your mother didn't eat and finding the need to specialize and 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:16.880 limit your development. So you start out inventing future species, trying out what the simple 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:26.840 flow of energy does to your cells and it expands you as a knowing being. And then as you run 00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:34.000 into the limits, you start adapting to those limits. And the worse your mother's condition 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:39.360 is, the more you become prematurely adultified. 00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:45.000 Can this be thought of as puberty being a major landmark in aging and the reproductive 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:52.240 years of the organism being a slow decline ultimately to death and then pre-puberty being, 00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:56.680 I don't know, a time where the organism is more evolved physiologically? 00:43:56.680 --> 00:44:05.360 Yeah, I think at six months of gestation is when we're at our peak and the environment, 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:12.000 the present atmosphere, for example, limits the amount of carbon dioxide and oxygen that 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:18.280 you can use and the amount of glucose that your mother can deliver. So at six months 00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:24.760 of gestation, I think is where we're the most pedomorphic and then that tapers off. It sets 00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:32.640 up a pattern of tapering off and predicting how much of a crocodile or primate you're 00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:41.440 going to be. If you were very early deprived, you're going to be an eating machine more 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.920 than an experiencing machine. 00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:50.120 And women are semi more resistant to these negative effects because of the progesterone? 00:44:50.120 --> 00:44:57.120 Yeah, progesterone keeps the progesterone, oxygen, and carbon dioxide towards an ideal 00:44:57.120 --> 00:45:01.660 for as long as you can supply all of those things together. 00:45:01.660 --> 00:45:07.880 Because women naturally have more progesterone than men and in your newest newsletter, you 00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:12.440 talked about progesterone being responsible for this temporal long range thinking. Do 00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:17.760 you see women as having a special, unique place in society? 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:25.640 In 1946, I think it was that I read Ashley Montagu on the biological superiority of 00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:33.480 women, sometime in the late '40s. I've been conscious of that ever since and thought of 00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:43.360 myself as a feminist until the Gloria Steinem CIA brand of feminism came on the scene. 00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:50.320 I was shocked. I saw the video of her talking about her CIA operative days and I wonder 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:56.560 how many so-called feminists are aware of that and how this institution was using feminism 00:45:56.560 --> 00:45:59.840 in some way to their advantage. 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:07.160 To expand the labor market to lower wages was a basic function. 00:46:07.160 --> 00:46:12.280 Some people were saying to destroy the basic nuclear family. Do you think that's right? 00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:20.560 Yeah, make everyone cheap labor. That's the basic purpose. To as peacefully as possible 00:46:20.560 --> 00:46:30.360 dispose of the excess population that isn't needed to run the factories. 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:37.040 With automation, the population excess is going to be a higher and higher percentage 00:46:37.040 --> 00:46:45.680 of existing people. Fewer and fewer people will have authorization to live. 00:46:45.680 --> 00:46:52.560 You think that getting into feminism is reasonable, but this idea is just misdirected towards 00:46:52.560 --> 00:46:55.920 the ruling class and the intelligence agencies. 00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:07.040 Women want to be as bad as men. Condoleezza Rice, our Secretary of State, we've had three 00:47:07.040 --> 00:47:11.000 terrible women Secretaries of State. 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:15.800 That was so ironic. People were pointing out that women tend to gravitate to these more 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:21.360 nurturing professions and the critics were like, "No, they shouldn't go to those professions. 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:26.400 They should want to be CEOs." And it's like, "Well, CEOs are some of the worst people you 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:33.600 can think of. Why do you want to aspire to be like them?" 00:47:33.600 --> 00:47:38.200 And on a weird note, the quote I was thinking of was, "Nature never appeals to intelligence 00:47:38.200 --> 00:47:44.240 until habit and instinct are useless," by H.G. Wills. And that was in your Language 00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:46.480 and Criticism of Science newsletter. 00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:49.760 What are you working on right now? You sent me your Sleep and Aging newsletter, which 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:50.760 was fantastic. 00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:58.760 I think I'll do something related to autism that has been coming up in my thinking increasingly. 00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:09.040 And autism is something that everyone is periodically inclined to. The lack of that resonance among 00:48:09.040 --> 00:48:16.360 individuals that is a natural property of life as the death culture imposes itself, 00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:24.920 it shows up in more and more visible things that are like autism or are diagnosed as autism. 00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:32.920 The deprivation of sugar, carbon dioxide, progesterone, thyroid, and possibility of 00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:33.920 life opportunities. 00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:39.120 I had swiped a reference that you had sent somebody. It was the Dr. Connell's "Sciences 00:48:39.120 --> 00:48:45.160 More" on medicine. And he was kind of invoking an old-school approach versus not more science 00:48:45.160 --> 00:48:51.320 and RCTs, but to act on the observation that vitamin D was deficient in autism. 00:48:51.320 --> 00:49:01.000 Yeah. Many things are deficient. Breastfeeding is deficient. Prenatal happiness is deficient. 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:09.080 Security of both father and mother before conception is deficient. Our culture is creating 00:49:09.080 --> 00:49:18.080 deficiencies of everything good. And autism is an increasingly epidemic expression of 00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:19.080 deprivation. 00:49:19.080 --> 00:49:25.080 Interesting way of looking at it. Ray, thank you so much. I sincerely appreciate it. 00:49:25.080 --> 00:49:26.080 Okay. Thank you. 00:49:26.080 --> 00:49:27.080 All right. Take care, Ray. Bye. 00:49:27.080 --> 00:49:38.360 That's going to conclude this week's episode. I'd like to give a huge thank you to Ray 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:42.880 for talking with me today, along with my patrons for their support of the show and all the 00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:48.800 content I produce from the bottom of my heart. Thank you to all the patrons. And if I didn't 00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:53.080 have patrons, I couldn't do any of this. So I sincerely appreciate it. Thank you so much. 00:49:53.080 --> 00:49:57.160 I say this every single time, but I have an amazing listenership. So hit that like button 00:49:57.160 --> 00:50:01.840 or subscribe because I try to release content as much as possible. I'm sure as most of you 00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:06.400 know, I'm writing a book right now. So I'm doing things a little bit less often. 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:11.320 This episode was really fun for me. It's always fun to do topics that aren't necessarily in 00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:19.280 my wheelhouse per se. So talking to Ray about these concepts was fun and entertaining and 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:24.720 a gigantic learning experience. So I sincerely appreciate it. So if you have any comments 00:50:24.720 --> 00:50:29.200 or constructive criticisms, always open to that too. I sincerely appreciate it, guys. 00:50:29.200 --> 00:50:31.640 I hope you guys are all well. Take care and I'll talk to you guys soon. 00:50:31.640 --> 00:50:34.220 (upbeat music) 00:50:34.220 --> 00:50:36.800 (upbeat music) 00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:39.380 (upbeat music) 00:50:39.380 --> 00:50:41.960 (gentle music)