WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.240 I'm really glad and thrilled to have you with us. It's an honor to talk to you. You've been 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:11.040 quite an inspirational force in the world of nutrition of which both of us have been 00:00:11.040 --> 00:00:16.320 aware of your work. Tucker Goodrich has known about your work longer than myself, but I've 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.360 been fascinated by the insights, the little bit that I've learned so far. Tucker, would 00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:23.760 you provide a little background for yourself? 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:36.760 Tucker Goodrich Me? I studied mostly humanities and arts for the first 10 years or so after 00:00:36.760 --> 00:00:47.320 I graduated from college. Just because of seeing how many things were being mismanaged 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:55.960 in science and health, I decided to go back to graduate school and get a PhD in biology, 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:07.200 physiology. And so I went right from literature and painting into physiology and got a PhD 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:19.360 at University of Oregon in 1972. And since then I've been working on related themes between 00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:31.440 brain function. That was my actual first interest in graduate school, but I discovered that 00:01:31.440 --> 00:01:39.680 the nerve biology and brain biology people were extremely dogmatic. And so I looked around 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:47.920 the biology department and I found that the physiologists and especially the reproductive 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:59.320 physiologists were actually scientific rather than dogmatic. And so I concentrated on age-related 00:01:59.320 --> 00:02:08.000 changes in fertility in females in particular. And that turned out to be very valuable for 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:20.840 understanding the brain, which had been my first orientation. The female hormones, actually 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:32.840 progesterone is a basic stabilizing factor. It's historically considered a pregnancy hormone, 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:40.040 but it's essential for brain function in both men and women. And the concentration in the 00:02:40.040 --> 00:02:48.240 brain of progesterone is about 10 times higher than in the blood. So that has been one of 00:02:48.240 --> 00:03:01.440 my main orientations at the last almost 50 years is looking at the implications of progesterone 00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:12.520 deficiency. And along with that, stress induces estrogen, which again isn't the female hormone 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:23.120 as it's been advertised now for about 70 years. It's actually a stress hormone. If a man is 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:32.880 injured or has a heart attack or is very sick and old, his estrogen is going to be as high 00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:47.240 as a woman's or higher. So it's a stress and aging indicator or hormone, definitely not 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:59.080 a fertility hormone. In the 1930s, estrogen was already identified as a promoter of miscarriage 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:13.240 or abortion and inflammation and cancer. Despite that, the estrogen industry by the early 1940s 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:23.440 discovered that almost anything toxic turns out to have an estrogenic effect. And soot, 00:04:23.440 --> 00:04:32.120 for example, you can extract about a thousand different estrogenic substances from soot. 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:43.760 And so the industry found a very cheap, almost so cheap you could hardly identify a cost 00:04:43.760 --> 00:04:53.120 substance, which is estrogenic and began selling it as the female fertility pregnancy protecting 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:07.520 hormone, estrogen. Convinced the FDA and other regulatory agencies that it was an appropriate 00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:19.880 treatment for pregnant women, aging women to prevent aging and so on. The first 200 00:05:19.880 --> 00:05:30.480 inhalants or more that estrogen was sold to treat all turned out to be fraudulent, but 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:38.120 they made many billions of dollars in the process. So they changed medical schools, 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:47.160 medical journals, the whole national consciousness to sell their fraudulent scheme or project. 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:53.040 Well, it's good. It's good to hear that not much has changed in the last many decades. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:06:02.240 Dr. Peat, how did you take this interest into the nutrition sphere? 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:12.680 Oh, well, I was still working in the humanities. I started the school in Mexico called Blake 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:22.840 College in the early 1960s. And I started seeing, for example, students who would come 00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:34.000 after work just couldn't learn anything. And so I started giving them a wheat germ and 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:46.320 egg biscuit and coffee with a little vitamin B1 added and they became good students. Just 00:06:46.320 --> 00:06:57.400 a few good meals and their brains were functioning better. And then a friend mentioned that his 00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:07.840 niece was dying in the hospital of intractable diarrhea. And I told him what I read in Adele 00:07:07.840 --> 00:07:20.080 Davis's book written in the late 1950s about vitamin B6 sometimes curing diarrhea. And 00:07:20.080 --> 00:07:27.680 after two or three days, he finally consented. He said they had given up and that she was 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:36.520 probably going to die within a day or so. So he went over to the doctor's head and gave 00:07:36.520 --> 00:07:47.480 the kid 10 milligrams of vitamin B6. And within hours, her diarrhea had stopped and she was 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:56.680 out of the hospital within a few days. That was one of the deciding things that made me 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:01.920 realize how powerful nutritional therapies could be. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:09.000 Indeed, that sounds somewhat similar to my own experience where I was able to put an 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:15.280 inflammatory bowel disease that I'd suffered from for 16 years in remission in a couple 00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:20.360 of days by cutting back on my polyunsaturated fat intake. I was rather surprised at how 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.680 effective it was and that spurred my own interest in nutrition and your research among other 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:36.360 things. So thank you, by the way, for all the papers that you've published or the blog 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:41.240 posts that you've done over the years. I've started reading them probably more than 10 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.160 years ago, and I find that every time, as I continue to learn, I go back and I reread 00:08:46.160 --> 00:08:54.000 them and appreciate how much you had said that I wasn't able to understand the first 00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:02.760 times because I didn't have the background to comprehend the points that you were making. 00:09:02.760 --> 00:09:12.720 So you've become, I don't want to say notorious, but rather famous in nutrition circles for 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:19.480 having a somewhat unconventional view of what a healthy human diet looks like. How would 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:25.160 you describe, for somebody who's new to your work, how would you describe succinctly your 00:09:25.160 --> 00:09:31.720 views on what human nutrition should be optimally? 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:46.880 I started out in Mexico looking at the reason for malnutrition and poverty was a major thing. 00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:55.720 And so I started thinking about the cost of foods and what was most easily available and 00:09:55.720 --> 00:10:04.200 started looking around the health of populations around the world and what they were eating 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:18.280 and what was economically available to correct their problems. And I saw that refined grains, 00:10:18.280 --> 00:10:29.680 for example, seemed to be a major problem when the traditional Mexican diet of tortillas 00:10:29.680 --> 00:10:44.960 and vegetables and small amounts of crustaceans, when that diet was replaced by the Spanish 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:56.720 refined cereal-based diet and meats, for example, the nutritional deficiency diseases started 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:06.800 showing up. So I looked at what traditional diets were doing and the lime processing using 00:11:06.800 --> 00:11:18.360 either calcium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide from ashes to soak the corn kernels in to 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:29.080 precook them in this strong alkalized solution. It changes the chemistry, for example, decreases 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:40.120 the tryptophan, turns it into niacin and makes the starch and toxic proteins digestible and 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:49.800 harmless. So simply their traditional process of the way they cooked their corn turned it 00:11:49.800 --> 00:11:59.560 from a toxin to an actually beneficial food rich in calcium, niacin and other essential 00:11:59.560 --> 00:12:09.920 nutrients rather than in the southern US where they imported corn from Mexico but didn't 00:12:09.920 --> 00:12:25.000 widely use the alkali process. Homini is the safe form of corn cooked in lime, but when 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.880 they didn't make their corn into homini, they got pellagra. 00:12:29.880 --> 00:12:59.720 So that makes sense. I 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:04.480 would hate to say it, but it seems that when you go to a vet, the first thing they ask 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:10.960 you about your pet is what is your pet eating. And when you go to a doctor, they don't generally 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:18.560 ask that question. It's a biological approach. If you have nutritional deficiencies, let's 00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:25.280 figure out what's causing them. I used to suggest that people would do better going 00:13:25.280 --> 00:13:32.560 to their vet rather than their doctor. 00:13:32.560 --> 00:13:46.440 So you make a couple of statements that a lot of people find somewhat confusing or hard 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:52.600 to take. You're a fan of, to some extent, of consuming sugar as part of a healthy diet. 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.280 Do you want to describe the rationale behind that? 00:13:56.280 --> 00:14:11.280 Yeah. Many years ago, I was hearing dieticians talk about the glycemic index of foods. And 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:19.240 right in their own tables, they showed that starches had a higher glycemic index than 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:26.800 sucrose. And that started me thinking about the difference between starch and sucrose. 00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:37.720 Sucrose consists of 50% fructose and 50% glucose, where starch is, when you assimilate it, it's 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:46.600 pure glucose. And glucose stimulates insulin, turning on fat production and lowering your 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:55.800 blood glucose unless you have a steady intake of it. Where the fructose component either 00:14:55.800 --> 00:15:05.680 doesn't stimulate insulin or even can have a restraining influence on insulin. And so 00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:15.440 intrinsically, the reason sugar has a lower glycemic index than starch is that the fructose 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:26.640 component restricts insulin and restrains fat synthesis and so stabilizes blood sugar. 00:15:26.640 --> 00:15:34.320 Right. And of course, for just that, it was advocated as a better sweetener for diabetics 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.000 for a while. 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:46.040 Yeah, but it has to be, unless you extract it from ripe Jerusalem artichokes, which take 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:55.200 a lot of care in storage and so on, it's generally manufactured chemically. And so it turns out 00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:04.520 that quite a few people have an allergic type reaction to the manufactured form of fructose. 00:16:04.520 --> 00:16:15.600 But if you eat fruits, for example, you not only get the fructose component of the sucrose, 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:25.720 but the high potassium content of the fruit has an insulin-like activity that also restrains 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:36.800 your body's production of insulin. So the fruit goes in with a slightly insulin-moderating 00:16:36.800 --> 00:16:46.320 fructose content and also the simultaneously the potassium, which takes care of absorbing 00:16:46.320 --> 00:17:00.040 the glucose without needing to secrete insulin. And so it has these surprising ways of bypassing 00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:10.760 the insulin problem or what's related to diabetes. And I ran across two 19th century doctors, 00:17:10.760 --> 00:17:21.520 one in Paris and one in following up in England, who the one in Paris was the first to observe 00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:33.320 that a high sugar diet cured his terminal diabetic patients, originally diabetes, because 00:17:33.320 --> 00:17:43.800 you couldn't assimilate glucose. You turned your protein of your tissues into glucose 00:17:43.800 --> 00:17:55.080 to survive. And so the diabetic wasted away, lost their muscles and finally died in essentially 00:17:55.080 --> 00:18:04.640 a starvation condition. The doctor in France gave his terminal diabetic patients who were 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:13.960 wasting away the amount of sugar they craved and found that they stopped wasting away and 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:24.000 very quickly started building muscle when they were eating a regular diet, milk, beef, 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:30.640 fruits and vegetables and so on, but along with a sugar supplement. So the doctor in 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:40.680 England did exactly the same thing and described the course of people who were dying, wasting 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:48.600 away, putting out tremendous amounts of sugar in their urine, even though they weren't eating 00:18:48.600 --> 00:18:58.600 any. They were restricted because they called diabetes the sugar disease. So they were torturing 00:18:58.600 --> 00:19:06.840 their patients by not letting them have any of the sugar that they craved. But he decided 00:19:06.840 --> 00:19:14.160 not to torture his patients and let them add as much sugar as they wanted to their diet. 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:23.240 Eventually they stopped putting glucose into urine and stopped losing muscle and recovered 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:24.240 very quickly. 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:29.360 >> Eric Lander So it sounds like this was because the sugar 00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:36.440 intake was sparing the liver the necessity of using glucose to produce the glucose that 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:37.440 their bodies needed. 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:43.280 >> Dr. Gregory S. Fowler Yeah, it turns off the cortisol which breaks 00:19:43.280 --> 00:19:52.280 down your tissue protein to make sugar out of it or the sugar equivalent. Same thing 00:19:52.280 --> 00:20:01.240 happens in cancer. The myth has developed that sugar feeds cancer. It's true in a sense, 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:11.160 that the cancer sends out signals such as ammonia to the body that it needs sugar if 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:21.080 you don't have sugar in your diet. And the body turns on extreme amounts of cortisol 00:20:21.080 --> 00:20:31.120 providing sugar by breaking down your immune system, muscles and skin, all of your tissues. 00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:41.600 The brain and lungs and heart are preserved. But the cancer causes catechia or the wasting 00:20:41.600 --> 00:20:51.120 disease as a main killer. And if you simply give the body a large amount of glucose or 00:20:51.120 --> 00:21:01.080 sugar of any sort, that will reduce the production of cortisol and stop the destruction of the 00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:13.200 body tissue or at least slow it. So diabetes and cancer have that in common, that they 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:23.440 involve the stress, high cortisol-induced loss of active body tissue to provide the 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.920 glucose which is essential for the brain to survive. 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:36.880 Are both diabetes and cancer driven a lot by the overconsumption of the PUFAs? 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:52.960 Exactly. The PUFA, the number of unsaturated groups in the molecule, the more highly polyunsaturated 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:59.040 the fat is, the more double bonds there are in the molecule. And exactly in proportion 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:10.920 to the number of double bonds, the interference with thyroid function increases. So the enzymes 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:20.000 that release thyroid from the gland are inhibited by the highly unsaturated fatty acids. The 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:28.840 proteins that carry thyroid hormone in the blood, the thyroid is displaced competitively 00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:38.000 by the highly unsaturated fatty acids exactly in proportion to the number of double bonds. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:48.800 And the cells, tissue cells' ability to respond to the thyroid hormone that they do receive 00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:55.440 is blocked in proportion to the number of double bonds. So it's every known step of 00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:03.600 thyroid activity which is needed to produce oxidative energy and it's that exactly which 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:14.440 fails in diabetes and cancer. So you lose oxidative energy production from glucose and 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:27.240 the fatty acids. In the 1960s, research showed that as your free fatty acids in the blood 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:36.680 go up from stress, from the need for more sugar in your diet, the increase of free fatty 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:45.840 acids blocks exactly the ability to use and oxidize glucose. 00:23:45.840 --> 00:23:54.960 Apparently the basic survival function of that which is called the Randle cycle, the 00:23:54.960 --> 00:24:05.880 biological function is probably to stop the use of glucose in your massive skeletal muscles 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:17.800 and dispensable tissues, skin and muscles in particular, saving whatever glucose is 00:24:17.800 --> 00:24:26.480 available for use by the brain, heart and lungs. But as the free fatty acids in the 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:37.080 blood rise, then even the ability of the heart and lungs and brain to use glucose for energy 00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:49.520 decreases. And that's especially true if the free fatty acids are highly unsaturated 00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:59.800 because they are increasingly toxic to the mitochondria in proportion to their instability 00:24:59.800 --> 00:25:03.480 and high unsaturation. 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:16.320 Okay. Now this, wow, this reminds me of one of your blog posts, Dr. Peat, that's a nation 00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:21.840 of information and there's a lot of unpacking that can be done to understand some of the 00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:30.960 things. To go back to your comments on sugar, there are primitive tribes that subsist on 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:36.400 high amounts of honey, which is effectively the same thing as sugar, up to 80% seasonally 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:44.720 in some groups and to suffer no ill effects, which speaks to your view that sugar isn't 00:25:44.720 --> 00:26:03.200 except perhaps for its dental effects, a harmful nutrient. There's a fructose going on nowadays. 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.320 There's a physician out of San Francisco, Dr. Lustig, I don't know if you're aware of 00:26:07.320 --> 00:26:08.320 him. 00:26:08.320 --> 00:26:11.600 Oh yeah, I saw his famous video. 00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:18.000 Right, okay. Do you have any thoughts on what the difference between your view and his view 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:20.480 on fructose and metabolism? 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:31.680 Yeah, during his talk in that video, he quickly shows many references in the background and 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:43.080 I looked up all of the references that I could read and found that they supported my argument 00:26:43.080 --> 00:26:56.920 as much as they did his. For example, he described fructose as a poison similar to ethyl alcohol. 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:07.120 In fact, if you're poisoned by an overdose of ethanol, if you're very, very drunk, the 00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:18.680 antitoxin or the antidote to alcohol poisoning is fructose. It exactly reverses the changes 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:27.760 inside the cells caused by alcohol. So he was right about alcohol being a metabolic 00:27:27.760 --> 00:27:35.760 poison. He was exactly wrong by saying it's like fructose. Fructose is the antidote to 00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:40.000 the alcohol effect. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.640 That's fascinating and that is very interesting. 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:53.760 Tucker, I wanted to ask what he mentioned about the role of PUFAs in causing cancer. 00:27:53.760 --> 00:27:58.840 Is that related to what you've proposed about cardiolipin and its role? Could you explain 00:27:58.840 --> 00:27:59.840 that or maybe ... 00:27:59.840 --> 00:28:13.960 Well, yeah. PUFA seems to be a metabolic, a mitochondrial toxin to the effect that ... I 00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:19.520 mean, there's some argument that your mitochondria actually prefer to burn it to get rid of it. 00:28:19.520 --> 00:28:24.620 It seems to be toxic to the extent that it alters the mitochondrial composition, which 00:28:24.620 --> 00:28:32.520 makes it more susceptible to oxidative damage and this breaks down the electron transport 00:28:32.520 --> 00:28:39.840 chain impairing mitochondrial function, especially the ability to process glucose. 00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:51.080 So that's basically the mechanism that I've seen that describes what Dr. Peat is talking 00:28:51.080 --> 00:28:55.640 about. 00:28:55.640 --> 00:29:04.680 It used to be 40 or 50 years ago, there was the absolute doctrine, dogma, that diabetes 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:17.480 was a genetic disease, almost 100% caused by genes. The new immigrants after the formation 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:29.300 of Israel, Israel had an extremely high incidence of diabetes, somewhat higher than the European 00:29:29.300 --> 00:29:40.360 countries the immigrants had come from. The dogma persisted that they simply had the genes 00:29:40.360 --> 00:29:51.240 for being diabetic, but then immigrants to Israel from the African countries, these people 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:59.500 were very genetically different and had no diabetes at all when they moved into the new 00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:10.620 country, but they soon took up the European diet that the diabetics were eating and their 00:30:10.620 --> 00:30:20.580 children all had the European high incidence of diabetes, totally disproving the genetic 00:30:20.580 --> 00:30:31.200 causation and the polyunsaturated fats were high in the European diet and had been very 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:35.400 low in the African immigrants until they moved. 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:42.920 So do you see any promising treatments people are proposing for diabetes and cancer or is 00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:43.920 that complicated? 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:55.400 Yeah, the same as the two 19th century doctors, it's all a matter of revising your thinking 00:30:55.400 --> 00:31:06.880 or realizing that the unsaturated fats are the cause and getting rid of them in the diet 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:18.740 as far as possible and then returning to a more traditional diet of carbohydrates and 00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:25.740 moderate amounts of protein from a variety of sources. 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:33.880 I was just saying let food be thy medicine is your approach for these diseases, right? 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:42.460 Yeah, and the minerals are extremely important in a less refined diet. There was a lot of 00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:52.100 magnesium and calcium, vegetable greens if they're cooked provide both lots of magnesium 00:31:52.100 --> 00:32:05.340 and calcium and the cows and goats that live primarily on leafy greens process their rumen 00:32:05.340 --> 00:32:18.640 and ferment and predigests the greens which are high in PUFA but the bacteria in their 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:30.460 rumen destroys about 97% of the PUFA so you get the very rich calcium and magnesium content 00:32:30.460 --> 00:32:40.780 in their milk to some extent in the meat but not nearly as much as in the milk along with 00:32:40.780 --> 00:32:52.100 a radical decrease of the PUFA content and simply getting a very generous amount of these 00:32:52.100 --> 00:33:03.300 minerals, calcium and magnesium is therapeutic not only to diabetes but to a lot of other 00:33:03.300 --> 00:33:13.940 conditions. There's a somewhat mysterious brain disease that was first seen in Guam 00:33:13.940 --> 00:33:24.580 but in several other regions that resembles Lou Gehrig's disease or amyotrophic lateral 00:33:24.580 --> 00:33:33.820 sclerosis and Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease. It includes a combination of all 00:33:33.820 --> 00:33:43.420 of those symptoms and they have considered various theories about poisons from bacteria 00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:56.060 and so on and from eating a flying fox that had lived on foods containing those bacteria. 00:33:56.060 --> 00:34:03.500 It turns out that what those regions have in common, not the toxins but they are all 00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:15.460 regions very low in calcium and/or magnesium and in the absence of a large amount of calcium 00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:28.020 or magnesium in your diet, the brain cells take up any positively charged metal in place 00:34:28.020 --> 00:34:38.420 of the calcium and magnesium. What happens when you're deficient in calcium is your 00:34:38.420 --> 00:34:49.460 parathyroid gland becomes hyperactive, turns off almost directly or indirectly. Your mitochondrial 00:34:49.460 --> 00:35:01.420 function decreases, your ability to produce energy and lacking energy, cells tend to calcify 00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:17.300 and the calcium is in early years protective of these de-energized, de-vitalized tissues 00:35:17.300 --> 00:35:26.340 but if it continues for a long time, the diet deficiency of calcium leading to hyperparathyroidism 00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:35.020 and reduced mitochondrial energy leads to eventually destructive levels of calcium in 00:35:35.020 --> 00:35:42.180 the tissues such as hardening of the arteries, calcification of the brain, heart valves, 00:35:42.180 --> 00:35:56.820 kidneys and so on. But in these island regions, they called it Guamanian dementia because 00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:09.500 it was discovered on the island of Guam. In the absence of the calcium to such an extent 00:36:09.500 --> 00:36:21.820 that your parathyroid hormone becomes very high, de-energizing your cells, if your environment 00:36:21.820 --> 00:36:31.300 has a normal amount of iron, lead and any of the heavy metals, they will load up to 00:36:31.300 --> 00:36:41.540 a toxic extent with the heavy metals and then the heavy metals interact to catalyze the 00:36:41.540 --> 00:36:52.620 oxidative breakdown of the PUFA which are concentrated in the brain. So a calcium deficiency, 00:36:52.620 --> 00:36:59.900 if you're extremely deficient, you won't even deposit the usual amount of calcium. 00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:09.500 It will be replaced by iron deposits or lead or whatever other metal is excessive. Copper, 00:37:09.500 --> 00:37:21.100 molybdenum and manganese for example and aluminum. Aluminum is a major accumulated mineral because 00:37:21.100 --> 00:37:26.620 it's generally abundant when calcium is deficient. 00:37:26.620 --> 00:37:38.860 - Interesting. So now, you mentioned at one point in our discussion how high fatty acids 00:37:38.860 --> 00:37:50.860 can impair insulin and there's been obviously, as I'm sure you're well aware, ketogenic diets 00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:59.900 have become quite popular outside of the therapeutic indications in the last few years. Some people 00:37:59.900 --> 00:38:07.660 have used your writings to say that a ketogenic diet can be harmful because the lack of glucose 00:38:07.660 --> 00:38:14.140 increases cortisol to meet the body's glucose requirement and that this is a harmful side 00:38:14.140 --> 00:38:18.540 effect of a ketogenic diet. Is that a fair representation of... 00:38:18.540 --> 00:38:29.500 - Yeah, it's an essential to making the ketones. The ketones are great if you get them in fruits 00:38:29.500 --> 00:38:37.660 and potatoes for example. They work fine as an energy source for heart and brain and so 00:38:37.660 --> 00:38:47.060 on. But if you have to make them yourself, the way you make them is to break down proteins 00:38:47.060 --> 00:38:53.860 which will come necessarily partly from your own tissues despite the fact that you're eating 00:38:53.860 --> 00:39:02.900 a lot of protein. The cortisol doesn't care whether it's exogenous protein or your muscle 00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:13.860 protein that it breaks down. And so when you're starving your tissues for glucose, your brain, 00:39:13.860 --> 00:39:23.620 brains and heart are going to get glucose any way it can which means from protein. And 00:39:23.620 --> 00:39:32.980 so you break down your own protein or your food protein and in the process you have to 00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:43.700 dispose of the large amount of ammonia released by the protein. That means that you become 00:39:43.700 --> 00:39:50.260 increasingly dependent on carbon dioxide to combine with the ammonia to make urea and 00:39:50.260 --> 00:39:56.740 get rid of the potentially toxic ammonia. And if something interferes with your carbon 00:39:56.740 --> 00:40:07.500 dioxide production, specifically not oxidizing enough glucose which produces about twice 00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:19.860 as much CO2 per unit of energy as oxidizing fat, you're creating a situation in which 00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:30.420 you have these multiple interacting stress factors that generally at an extreme can end 00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:40.780 up poisoning your brain with too much ammonia but always to some extent poisoning your body 00:40:40.780 --> 00:40:48.860 with too much cortisol breaking down proteins to make the glucose to sustain your brain 00:40:48.860 --> 00:40:51.580 and lungs and blood system. 00:40:51.580 --> 00:40:57.940 Dave Shiller>> Right, understood. And that would explain why people who go on a ketogenic 00:40:57.940 --> 00:41:06.060 weight loss diet seem to experience a little more fat-free mass loss compared to people 00:41:06.060 --> 00:41:13.460 who go on a high-carb, low-fat diet when they examine the two side by side. 00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:29.420 Dr. R. D. Dixon>> Just looking at the pancreas gland itself, way back around 1920, people 00:41:29.420 --> 00:41:34.140 were thinking of genetic reasons for the loss of the beta cells in the pancreas that can 00:41:34.140 --> 00:41:45.940 make insulin. And it turns out that we have stem cells in the pancreas constantly replacing 00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:57.780 if you kill for whatever reason your beta cells, they are stem cells ready to give birth 00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:09.220 to new insulin-producing beta cells. And glucose is the sustaining factor for making new stem 00:42:09.220 --> 00:42:18.740 cells for maintaining the ability to replace the missing insulin-producing cells. But free 00:42:18.740 --> 00:42:28.820 fatty acids are constantly killing the beta cells. So a deficiency of glucose limits the 00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:40.500 stem cell production and an excess of free fatty acids kills the beta cells faster. And 00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:52.020 that means that you can very quickly activate these stem cells to make new beta cells and 00:42:52.020 --> 00:43:01.380 at the same time by increasing the sugar availability, decrease the free fatty acids which are killing 00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:10.140 the beta cells. And that can account for how these two 19th century doctors so quickly 00:43:10.140 --> 00:43:20.660 cured terminal diabetics. The pancreas is perfectly willing to repair itself and become 00:43:20.660 --> 00:43:24.780 non-diabetic if you just stop killing it with PUFA. 00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:33.860 So, what about people who do the lower carb diet but they are eating 40 to 50 grams of 00:43:33.860 --> 00:43:36.660 carbs a day, would that not be enough? 00:43:36.660 --> 00:43:47.580 That would not be enough. Far from it I think. It's somewhat well more than 100 grams per 00:43:47.580 --> 00:43:55.500 day. The healthy amount seems to be up above 200 grams of carbohydrate per day. The therapeutic 00:43:55.500 --> 00:44:08.140 amount that the French and English doctors used was somewhat a little over half a pound 00:44:08.140 --> 00:44:13.460 of sugar per day added to a standard diet. 00:44:13.460 --> 00:44:19.740 So what about folks that say they seem to gain weight whenever they are eating that 00:44:19.740 --> 00:44:24.420 kind of level of sugar, 200 grams of sugar a day. Is there, it's just about the right 00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:26.740 sugars eating the fruits? 00:44:26.740 --> 00:44:35.700 Well they probably weren't terminal diabetics. The patients of these 19th century doctors 00:44:35.700 --> 00:44:43.300 stopped needing the sugar supplement in just two or three weeks. But if someone isn't 00:44:43.300 --> 00:44:54.780 diabetic and they add that amount of sugar, it's all unnecessary excess calories. In 00:44:54.780 --> 00:45:04.740 the case of the diabetics, they were powerfully deficient in calories and so when they added 00:45:04.740 --> 00:45:14.460 half a pound of sugar, they were simply making them calorie neutral and it shifted them to 00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:22.060 an anabolic metabolism that made the calories more efficient for rebuilding muscle. But 00:45:22.060 --> 00:45:32.820 a person who isn't in that dying state from advanced diabetes always has to attend to 00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:38.540 keeping their calorie intake within their metabolic consumption. 00:45:38.540 --> 00:45:49.980 Animal experiments show that shifting to a fruit or sugar-based sucrose added diet in 00:45:49.980 --> 00:46:01.060 various studies increases the metabolic rate by around 20% so they can keep their metabolism 00:46:01.060 --> 00:46:12.220 in a calorie balanced condition even by adding a moderate amount of sugar. But gaining fat 00:46:12.220 --> 00:46:21.140 weight means definitely that you're out of balance taking in too many calories. 00:46:21.140 --> 00:46:27.620 So if a person who's normal in terms of not having any specific diseases but overweight, 00:46:27.620 --> 00:46:35.660 you would recommend still including lots of fruits and I believe you're big on dairy, 00:46:35.660 --> 00:46:37.220 ice cream even. 00:46:37.220 --> 00:46:47.620 Yeah, the calcium and vitamin D are probably the most powerful weight loss nutrients there 00:46:47.620 --> 00:46:58.660 are because both of them suppress the inflammatory system and the parathyroid hormone and the 00:46:58.660 --> 00:47:08.140 parathyroid hormone suppresses mitochondrial oxidation and creates a vicious circle of 00:47:08.140 --> 00:47:17.380 stress and the most powerful way to stop that exaggerated parathyroid hormone is to get 00:47:17.380 --> 00:47:27.540 a lot of calcium, magnesium and vitamin D in your diet and that again drastically increases 00:47:27.540 --> 00:47:37.780 your ability to burn calories, produce heat and not get fat. A low-fat milk diet with 00:47:37.780 --> 00:47:47.540 adequate vitamin D is a very efficient weight loss diet as well as therapeutic in a variety 00:47:47.540 --> 00:48:01.260 of other conditions. In fact, probably all of the really dangerous diseases are helped 00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:09.540 by a diet high in vitamin D, calcium and magnesium. 00:48:09.540 --> 00:48:10.540 Interesting. 00:48:10.540 --> 00:48:19.460 Yeah, so you've talked about the vitamin D factor. Would that best source of that be 00:48:19.460 --> 00:48:22.300 getting a lot of sunlight exposure? 00:48:22.300 --> 00:48:39.220 Yeah, in a moderate latitude. In Florida, the sun is always within a reasonable intensity 00:48:39.220 --> 00:48:47.780 high in the sky during the middle of the day. In the northern states except in the late 00:48:47.780 --> 00:49:01.260 spring, summer and early fall, even the midday sun is so low in the sky, you're not going 00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:07.020 to get enough sun. Only in the middle of the day in the summer, late spring and early fall 00:49:07.020 --> 00:49:16.460 in the northern states, sunbathing is curative. It takes 30 minutes to an hour of good sun 00:49:16.460 --> 00:49:27.980 exposure on the majority of your skin to keep your vitamin D level at least the middle of 00:49:27.980 --> 00:49:37.580 the range that they call normal. It should be something like 50 or 60 nanograms per milliliter 00:49:37.580 --> 00:49:43.580 to keep your parathyroid hormone under control. 00:49:43.580 --> 00:49:46.340 Is that morning sun the best sun? 00:49:46.340 --> 00:49:57.460 In Florida, it's probably the best. You can get very sunburned if you spend too much time 00:49:57.460 --> 00:50:05.420 in the middle of the day. So you have good ultraviolet activity when you're in a low 00:50:05.420 --> 00:50:13.900 latitude. And the higher altitude, the sun is more intense. 00:50:13.900 --> 00:50:27.340 Dr. Peat, have you looked into the relationship between Omega-6 PUFA intake and sunburn and 00:50:27.340 --> 00:50:28.340 skin cancer? 00:50:28.340 --> 00:50:42.100 Oh yeah. There was a rabbit experiment. They shaved the rabbits and fed one group a PUFA 00:50:42.100 --> 00:50:50.660 rich diet, the other one a PUFA deficient diet. And the ones on a PUFA deficient diet 00:50:50.660 --> 00:50:59.460 didn't have sun damage. And they happened to be studying the wrinkling effect. The ones 00:50:59.460 --> 00:51:07.620 eating a lot of PUFA had so much sun damage, their skin got fragile and wrinkled. And the 00:51:07.620 --> 00:51:14.860 same thing that causes wrinkling, it's the same process that leads to chronic inflammation 00:51:14.860 --> 00:51:15.860 and cancer. 00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:23.500 Right. And additionally, I would expect the fibrosis that we see in a lot of these chronic 00:51:23.500 --> 00:51:24.500 diseases. 00:51:24.500 --> 00:51:45.740 Yeah. The tendency to swelling up, burn symptoms and eventually fibrosis and even calcium deposits 00:51:45.740 --> 00:51:56.780 in extremely damaged skin. It's very common for precancerous and cancerous inflamed cells 00:51:56.780 --> 00:52:01.980 to show crystals of calcium forming. 00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:10.220 Interesting. Due to the body's inability to properly process calcium, I presume. 00:52:10.220 --> 00:52:11.220 Yeah. 00:52:11.220 --> 00:52:22.900 Interesting. Yeah. I discovered myself years back after going to a low omega-6 PUFA diet 00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:30.480 that I, within a few weeks, had a much lower susceptibility to sunburn. I've also noticed 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:39.940 a lower susceptibility to just burn from hot things like kitchen accidents and the like. 00:52:39.940 --> 00:52:44.220 It's been a rather dramatic alteration that a lot of other people have reported when they 00:52:44.220 --> 00:52:51.740 go on a diet that's also low in omega-6 fats. Like a lot of the people who go on a carnivore 00:52:51.740 --> 00:52:57.780 diet, if they're eating a lot of beef, they're going to get a lot less omega-6. And they've 00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:07.940 pretty not entirely, but pretty unanimously noticed a decline in susceptibility to sunburn. 00:53:07.940 --> 00:53:18.540 And D and calcium help that along. They are contradictory to the PUFA effect. I used to 00:53:18.540 --> 00:53:30.380 sunburn just ridiculously easy. Just driving with tinted windows in a bright sunny area 00:53:30.380 --> 00:53:38.140 in the desert, for example, I would get horribly sunburned right through the windows. And five 00:53:38.140 --> 00:53:48.380 minutes in the midday sunlight in Mexico, I would have a lobster-looking skin color. 00:53:48.380 --> 00:53:58.700 But after supplementing vitamin D, getting lots of milk in my diet, and avoiding PUFA 00:53:58.700 --> 00:54:05.820 as completely as possible, the last time I was in Mexico, I was able to work the whole 00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:15.340 day at about 7,500 feet altitude, extremely intense ultraviolet, no burning at all. 00:54:15.340 --> 00:54:25.500 I've noticed similar myself. I now live in Idaho in the high desert, and I'm not impervious 00:54:25.500 --> 00:54:34.980 to sunburn, but I can go hours out in the sun without getting a serious burn. It's quite 00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:37.580 pleasant not having to worry about that. 00:54:37.580 --> 00:54:45.100 Very, very convenient. I used to wear a hat all the time, but I don't bother with a hat 00:54:45.100 --> 00:54:46.100 anymore. 00:54:46.100 --> 00:54:51.260 You talk about milk consumption. A lot of people are concerned about drinking store-bought 00:54:51.260 --> 00:54:56.780 pasteurized milk. They feel like there's all kinds of stuff in there that ruins the quality 00:54:56.780 --> 00:55:04.060 of the product that you would get in raw milk. Do you have any thoughts on that? 00:55:04.060 --> 00:55:14.020 The pasteurizing does slightly lower the vitamin content and so on. So it's still just about 00:55:14.020 --> 00:55:21.500 the best food available even when it's not well-treated. But if you have a problem with 00:55:21.500 --> 00:55:29.540 one brand of milk, I found that the taste of the milk is a good indicator of how easy 00:55:29.540 --> 00:55:40.740 it is on your digestion. But some people do react probably to the way they've added the 00:55:40.740 --> 00:55:48.220 vitamin A and D. They use an emulsifier and some of the emulsifiers might cause digestive 00:55:48.220 --> 00:55:56.060 problems. But if you try different brands, you can usually find some kind of milk that 00:55:56.060 --> 00:55:59.820 agrees with your digestive system. 00:55:59.820 --> 00:56:07.580 If you haven't been a milk drinker, it's important to start with, for example, half a glass with 00:56:07.580 --> 00:56:17.580 each meal and then gradually build up over a few weeks because it takes time to induce 00:56:17.580 --> 00:56:28.340 enzymes such as lactase in your intestine. Even lactose intolerant people, if they go 00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:36.140 at it gradually, can induce the enzymes needed to break down lactose. 00:56:36.140 --> 00:56:41.860 So you don't seek out raw milk yourself? You don't drink that? 00:56:41.860 --> 00:56:56.820 No. If I had a good clean source, a lot of even commercial dairies don't wash the udders 00:56:56.820 --> 00:57:05.700 of the cow before they milk it. When we had a cow at home, we always carefully sponged 00:57:05.700 --> 00:57:14.540 off the udder to get rid of the dandruff and any dirt that might be possible to get into 00:57:14.540 --> 00:57:22.900 the milk. But lots of dairies don't do proper hygiene with their cows. 00:57:22.900 --> 00:57:27.140 Should children drink low-fat milk or full-fat milk? 00:57:27.140 --> 00:57:28.620 What kind of children? 00:57:28.620 --> 00:57:33.460 Just children growing up. Should they drink full-fat or low-fat? 00:57:33.460 --> 00:57:40.860 It depends on how active they are. Nowadays, kids are more likely to be watching their 00:57:40.860 --> 00:57:54.660 computer or telephones than doing active calorie burning. So I think usually 1 or 2% fat content 00:57:54.660 --> 00:58:08.140 is good even for kids. In a dairy country where people are working vigorously 8 or 10 00:58:08.140 --> 00:58:14.620 hours a day, then full-fat milk is very appropriate because they need the calories and will burn 00:58:14.620 --> 00:58:37.980 them but very often people who drink whole milk and have a sedentary way of life are 00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:42.980 going to get fat. 00:58:42.980 --> 00:58:58.020 Norman Ponser, P-O-N-T-Z-E-R, is a pretty interesting person. I highly commend his work. 00:58:58.020 --> 00:59:03.940 It's quite interesting looking at the relationship between exercise and obesity. 00:59:03.940 --> 00:59:26.820 One of the overlooked things that exercise does, if you're working for example, is that 00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:35.100 physical activity increases your body temperature and the increased body temperature increases 00:59:35.100 --> 00:59:46.380 your calorie burning ability. So it's similar to what thyroid supplementing does. The good 00:59:46.380 --> 00:59:54.580 body warming effect of physical activity keeps your metabolic rate going with an anti-inflammatory 00:59:54.580 --> 01:00:04.500 effect. If you're sedentary, your body's temperature falls and you go into a pro-inflammatory 01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:05.500 state. 01:00:05.500 --> 01:00:12.060 Of course, exercise also upregulates your resistance to oxidative stress which from 01:00:12.060 --> 01:00:19.700 my understanding of that term is generally what it means in practice is a toxic effect 01:00:19.700 --> 01:00:26.980 of omega-6 fat breakdown and exercise increases your ability to detoxify omega-6 fats in the 01:00:26.980 --> 01:00:30.300 body and their metabolites. 01:00:30.300 --> 01:00:40.460 Increased body temperature is a very powerful effect in reducing lipid peroxidation for 01:00:40.460 --> 01:00:49.660 example. Higher body temperature lowers inflammation and lowers lipid peroxidation, makes you oxidize 01:00:49.660 --> 01:00:56.660 properly rather than oxidizing fats that shouldn't be oxidized. 01:00:56.660 --> 01:01:11.580 Right. So that gets another controversial position that you hold with the caveat that 01:01:11.580 --> 01:01:17.220 I, assuming I understand it correctly, let me describe what I understand is that you 01:01:17.220 --> 01:01:26.540 caution people against excess fish oil intake. Clearly, omega-3 fats are also susceptible 01:01:26.540 --> 01:01:32.180 to lipid peroxidation just like omega-6 fats are. 01:01:32.180 --> 01:01:34.100 Much more so. 01:01:34.100 --> 01:01:42.980 Much more so, okay. So do you want to describe your position on that so I don't mangle it? 01:01:42.980 --> 01:01:52.060 Yes. The number of double bonds and the fish oil is extremely rich in five and six double 01:01:52.060 --> 01:02:05.340 bonds or the seed oil and minus six vegetable oils typically have two or three double bonds. 01:02:05.340 --> 01:02:12.220 Those are sufficiently toxic but when you get five or six double bonds in a molecule, 01:02:12.220 --> 01:02:21.660 the instability is that much greater. The antifibrate effect of the fish oil, very highly 01:02:21.660 --> 01:02:30.100 unsaturated, is that much greater than the seed oil. But the good thing is that they 01:02:30.100 --> 01:02:39.580 are so unstable that a large part of them breaks down before they even circulate to 01:02:39.580 --> 01:02:51.580 your tissues and it's the breakdown products, the oxidation fragments of the N-3 fish oil 01:02:51.580 --> 01:03:04.340 type of PUFA that has the so-called anti-inflammatory effect. It's toxic to your immune system to 01:03:04.340 --> 01:03:13.260 the extent that for the first few months, you can see a definite anti-inflammatory effect 01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:21.940 by interfering with things such as prostaglandin synthesis and some of the inflammatory cytokines 01:03:21.940 --> 01:03:30.860 and breaking down thymus cells that could be involved in inflammation. But the trouble 01:03:30.860 --> 01:03:41.460 is that prolonged use, after about six months, this anti-inflammatory effect starts becoming 01:03:41.460 --> 01:03:55.820 immunosuppressive and over a lifetime, the amount of the long chain, highly unsaturated 01:03:55.820 --> 01:04:06.060 N-3 accumulates, stabilized to some extent by forming an ester with cholesterol molecules 01:04:06.060 --> 01:04:20.420 and that happens in atherosclerotic plaques in the arteries and then when it does oxidize, 01:04:20.420 --> 01:04:29.460 forming age pigment-like material in your arteries, that's part of the buildup of the 01:04:29.460 --> 01:04:37.900 high cholesterol containing plaque but it's the PUFA esters that start the process of 01:04:37.900 --> 01:04:47.940 forming age pigment and/or arterial plaques. But that process continues in the brain so 01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:59.300 that the old person's brain has much more fish oil-like molecules than the baby's brain. 01:04:59.300 --> 01:05:07.500 Any healthy pregnancy delivers a baby who is, according to the dieticians, deficient 01:05:07.500 --> 01:05:16.940 in the so-called essential fatty acids. Their body is burning calories at two or three times 01:05:16.940 --> 01:05:24.820 the rate of an older individual and their brain is learning at several times higher 01:05:24.820 --> 01:05:37.260 rate than an adult. In the teens, the metabolic rate slows drastically in proportion to how 01:05:37.260 --> 01:05:48.620 much unsaturated fat is in your diet, turning down your metabolic rate. With aging, these 01:05:48.620 --> 01:05:57.620 anti-metabolic fish oil-like N-3 fats build up steadily in the brain. People are talking 01:05:57.620 --> 01:06:05.700 about them as being necessary because they find so much of them in the brain but in the 01:06:05.700 --> 01:06:15.020 late development fetus, just before delivery and right after delivery, healthy babies are 01:06:15.020 --> 01:06:26.500 extremely deficient in all of the PUFA and the brain function corresponds negatively 01:06:26.500 --> 01:06:35.340 to the amount of PUFA esters of cholesterol in the brain. So the actual available cholesterol 01:06:35.340 --> 01:06:44.260 decreases in the aging and dementing brain. The cholesterol which is needed to make progesterone 01:06:44.260 --> 01:06:53.220 in the brain, for example, is bound up to the PUFA molecules which accumulate. The demented 01:06:53.220 --> 01:07:03.340 brain has more total cholesterol but it's inactivated by being stuck to the highly unsaturated 01:07:03.340 --> 01:07:06.700 molecules that have accumulated from the diet. 01:07:06.700 --> 01:07:12.660 From what I understand, babies are more naturally going in and out of ketosis. Is that a healthy 01:07:12.660 --> 01:07:16.100 version because they're getting the ketones from the mother's milk? 01:07:16.100 --> 01:07:19.420 Yeah, the mother's milk is. 01:07:19.420 --> 01:07:23.340 So because they're not producing those ketones in their own body, it's a healthy type of 01:07:23.340 --> 01:07:25.940 ketosis for them to have? 01:07:25.940 --> 01:07:33.780 I don't think they should go into ketosis if the mother is producing sugar-rich milk. 01:07:33.780 --> 01:07:39.980 The baby has such a high metabolic rate that they very quickly use up their sugar and need 01:07:39.980 --> 01:07:43.780 to be fed again. 01:07:43.780 --> 01:07:57.900 Let's distinguish between fish oil and fish consumption. I've read some of your posts 01:07:57.900 --> 01:08:05.260 where you recommend eating some amount of fish but not necessarily the fatty fish like 01:08:05.260 --> 01:08:10.940 salmon and mackerel and sardines that we're all told are the healthiest fish because of 01:08:10.940 --> 01:08:16.420 the high omega-6 content. You mentioned at the beginning of this discussion Mexicans 01:08:16.420 --> 01:08:21.300 eating crustaceans and having a healthy diet. Of course, the Japanese eat a lot of fish 01:08:21.300 --> 01:08:29.100 and have a fairly healthy lifespan. 01:08:29.100 --> 01:08:42.460 What the crustacean eats, the pufa derive generally from algae and the very simple sea 01:08:42.460 --> 01:09:00.220 creatures or water organisms live ultimately from the nature of the simple single cellular 01:09:00.220 --> 01:09:13.540 independent organisms. If the food that the crustacean eats has a more saturated fat because 01:09:13.540 --> 01:09:20.340 they live at a warmer temperature, then the crustacean itself is going to have less of 01:09:20.340 --> 01:09:22.220 the fish oil material. 01:09:22.220 --> 01:09:31.300 For example, in the Amazon with a high water temperature, 85 degrees or so, the fish fat 01:09:31.300 --> 01:09:39.980 there is closer to butter than to what we think of as fish oil from the northern seas 01:09:39.980 --> 01:09:40.980 that are very cold. 01:09:40.980 --> 01:09:47.580 Of course, the same effect holds true for vegetable fats that coconuts and palm which 01:09:47.580 --> 01:09:54.220 come from tropical areas are much more saturated than grains which tend to grow in temperate 01:09:54.220 --> 01:09:55.220 climates. 01:09:55.220 --> 01:10:03.420 Yes, and you can show that effect. Someone put sweaters on pigs, for example, and showed 01:10:03.420 --> 01:10:09.660 that their fat was more saturated. 01:10:09.660 --> 01:10:10.660 That's very funny. 01:10:10.660 --> 01:10:11.660 I just wanted to ask about some other things. 01:10:11.660 --> 01:10:12.660 Interesting. Now, sorry, David, go ahead. 01:10:12.660 --> 01:10:23.820 I just wanted to ask about some other things to avoid PUFA. Should people avoid the chicken 01:10:23.820 --> 01:10:29.580 eggs from the grocery store, pork, fatty pork, fatty chicken because they have a lot of high 01:10:29.580 --> 01:10:32.340 linoleic acid in the fat? 01:10:32.340 --> 01:10:44.020 Right. When I make chicken broth, I let it cool enough to skim off as much of the fat 01:10:44.020 --> 01:10:51.660 as possible. Someone sent me some of their pork. They had the fat analyzed where the 01:10:51.660 --> 01:11:00.540 agriculture department found that their so-called saturated fat from lard was actually over 01:11:00.540 --> 01:11:10.140 30% PUFA. But this pork producer sent me a sample of their foods, their bacon and such, 01:11:10.140 --> 01:11:21.060 that by analysis had only 4% PUFA and butter is from 2% to 3% PUFA. So that pork would 01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:23.260 be very safe. 01:11:23.260 --> 01:11:31.540 And if you feed your chickens or your pigs a good diet, like my friends in Mexico feed 01:11:31.540 --> 01:11:42.500 their chickens table scraps, lots of tortillas, carbohydrates, and let them eat bugs that 01:11:42.500 --> 01:11:51.140 are relatively saturated, their eggs taste much better and are low in PUFA. The worst 01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:58.540 thing is the supermarket egg taste. If they give them flax, for example, the eggs will 01:11:58.540 --> 01:12:06.860 taste like fish because of the highly unsaturated fats. 01:12:06.860 --> 01:12:13.540 I traveled down to Ecuador many years ago and the first thing that I ate when I got 01:12:13.540 --> 01:12:18.100 there was a plate of scrambled eggs and I was absolutely blown away by how much better 01:12:18.100 --> 01:12:27.420 they tasted than American eggs. The yolks were dark orange and I've never forgotten 01:12:27.420 --> 01:12:31.260 how much tastier those eggs were. I've been trying to recapture that experience here in 01:12:31.260 --> 01:12:38.820 America. It's not very easy even with pastured eggs because they do feed them a lot of grain 01:12:38.820 --> 01:12:40.300 as a base diet. 01:12:40.300 --> 01:12:51.260 If you keep them close to the house so they eat the food you are throwing away, they're 01:12:51.260 --> 01:12:53.820 getting almost a good diet. 01:12:53.820 --> 01:13:04.620 Right. Now something else that you just mentioned, how babies seem to be born in a state that 01:13:04.620 --> 01:13:15.740 a medical doctor would describe as almost essential fatty acid deficient. There's a 01:13:15.740 --> 01:13:24.500 fascinating paper that I came across. Of course, as I'm sure you're aware, one of the "signs" 01:13:24.500 --> 01:13:31.140 of essential fatty acid deficiency is the presence of meat acid, which is an omega-9 01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:39.220 fatty acid made by the body in the absence of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. 01:13:39.220 --> 01:13:44.780 This paper looked at the cartilage of a variety of different species and noticed that every 01:13:44.780 --> 01:13:52.500 single animal that they looked at when it was born had a high amount of meat acid in 01:13:52.500 --> 01:14:02.140 their cartilage indicating that it was deficient, but also the fact that every single one of 01:14:02.140 --> 01:14:06.660 them was born in that state indicates that that may be the state that we ought to be 01:14:06.660 --> 01:14:12.140 in. What do you think of that point of view? 01:14:12.140 --> 01:14:18.420 Absolutely right. There's a guy in Australia, I think his name was Clellan, who found a 01:14:18.420 --> 01:14:34.660 way to get a practical amount to make supplements of an omega-9 equivalent of a prostaglandin. 01:14:34.660 --> 01:14:48.380 Our bodies, when we're deficient in PUFA, will still use the enzymes that make prostaglandins, 01:14:48.380 --> 01:14:58.940 but they will act on the omega-9 fats producing prostaglandin-like material, except these 01:14:58.940 --> 01:15:09.980 are anti-inflammatory and restorative, regenerative, where the prostaglandins we know made from 01:15:09.980 --> 01:15:24.140 N-6 fatty acids are invariably harmful. Even the so-called good prostaglandins have their 01:15:24.140 --> 01:15:34.940 harmful side effects, breaking down bone structure, damaging nerve cells, skin cells, blood vessels, 01:15:34.940 --> 01:15:43.460 everything the prostaglandins we're familiar with all have their very harmful effects, 01:15:43.460 --> 01:15:55.860 but the omega-9-based prostaglandin-like substances are actually essential and beneficial to good 01:15:55.860 --> 01:16:07.580 health, but you have to be deficient in these so-called essential fatty acids before we 01:16:07.580 --> 01:16:22.820 produce enough of the meat acids to reliably make these anti-inflammatory protective prostanoids. 01:16:22.820 --> 01:16:33.180 Several experiments, I've accumulated about 20 of them I guess, showing that any injury 01:16:33.180 --> 01:16:44.860 to the animal is minimal when the animal is producing meat acids and deficient in the 01:16:44.860 --> 01:16:46.500 so-called essential fatty acids. 01:16:46.500 --> 01:16:51.660 Now, what do you mean by any injury to the animal is minimal? 01:16:51.660 --> 01:17:00.020 They took some of them by the tail and whacked them against the furniture and gave others 01:17:00.020 --> 01:17:13.860 cobra venom, all kinds of toxins that they could think of, poisons that would create 01:17:13.860 --> 01:17:19.220 diabetes in other animals didn't hurt these deficient animals. 01:17:19.220 --> 01:17:25.780 See, now that is again fascinating because one of the things, and I've posted about 01:17:25.780 --> 01:17:32.260 this on Twitter a number of times, that I have noticed since going on a low omega-6 01:17:32.260 --> 01:17:40.180 diet is that I am much more resistant to injury and especially to pain from injury. 01:17:40.180 --> 01:17:46.660 At first it was so extreme that I was concerned that I was coming down with leprosy, of course 01:17:46.660 --> 01:17:52.460 the primary symptom of which is peripheral nerve degeneration to the point where you 01:17:52.460 --> 01:17:56.180 can't feel things. 01:17:56.180 --> 01:18:02.620 But 10 years later it's still going on and I obviously don't have leprosy but I'm 01:18:02.620 --> 01:18:08.460 still largely impervious to these little minor impacts. 01:18:08.460 --> 01:18:11.340 I've never heard of animal studies actually showing that. 01:18:11.340 --> 01:18:17.580 That's quite fascinating. 01:18:17.580 --> 01:18:30.900 The corresponding accumulation that's generally related to age as you eat the standard diets, 01:18:30.900 --> 01:18:40.060 the prostaglandins are easier and more abundant to produce with a minor injury the older you 01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:47.860 are and the more of these unsaturated fats you have in your tissues. 01:18:47.860 --> 01:18:56.580 And so an old person entering their tissues gets worse symptoms. 01:18:56.580 --> 01:19:10.180 A three or four year old can get a bruise or a scrape or a cut and in three or four 01:19:10.180 --> 01:19:18.860 days there's no sign of it left or an old person will sometimes develop a chronic problem 01:19:18.860 --> 01:19:24.340 or at best it might take two weeks to heal an equivalent injury. 01:19:24.340 --> 01:19:28.100 Right, yeah, that's exactly what I've noticed. 01:19:28.100 --> 01:19:29.100 I heal much more quickly. 01:19:29.100 --> 01:19:34.220 I'm much more impervious to pain. 01:19:34.220 --> 01:19:40.420 I had a coal recently fly out of a campfire and land on my leg and it hurt a lot when 01:19:40.420 --> 01:19:45.060 it was sitting on my leg burning me and burning a hole through my pants. 01:19:45.060 --> 01:19:51.180 As soon as I took it off the pain went away and previously I would have expected a burn 01:19:51.180 --> 01:19:57.380 to hurt for days and now the pain went away as soon as I had the source of the burning 01:19:57.380 --> 01:20:03.980 off my body and it just blew my mind what a stark difference it was from my previous 01:20:03.980 --> 01:20:04.980 experiences. 01:20:04.980 --> 01:20:19.260 Hans Selye who is famous for the stress physiology, he carried his stress studies from the systemic 01:20:19.260 --> 01:20:31.260 level down to the tissue level and found that such things as polyunsaturated fats caused 01:20:31.260 --> 01:20:33.540 all sorts of susceptibility. 01:20:33.540 --> 01:20:44.380 Canola oil, he found that it was the PUFA content of the original rapeseed oil rather 01:20:44.380 --> 01:20:49.580 than the erucic acid that was eliminated to make canola. 01:20:49.580 --> 01:21:01.860 He found that just the linoleic acid content of the natural rapeseed oil was enough to 01:21:01.860 --> 01:21:11.500 spontaneously cause necrotic areas to form in the heart, spontaneous heart degeneration, 01:21:11.500 --> 01:21:21.660 but he found that on the same amount of rapeseed oil if he added cocoa butter with a very high 01:21:21.660 --> 01:21:31.660 stearic acid content, their heart was protected by displacing the harmful so-called essential 01:21:31.660 --> 01:21:34.300 fatty acids. 01:21:34.300 --> 01:21:41.740 Other studies of his showed that vitamin E which prevents the breakdown of polyunsaturated 01:21:41.740 --> 01:21:52.820 fats protected against all of the consequences starting with histamine release from any kind 01:21:52.820 --> 01:21:55.980 of injury you can think of. 01:21:55.980 --> 01:22:01.460 In some experiments, you would pull tufts of an animal's hair out. 01:22:01.460 --> 01:22:10.180 That was enough to activate histamine and other stress signals that would then be amplified 01:22:10.180 --> 01:22:26.260 by prostaglandins from their PUFA in the tissues leading to calcification defensively and in 01:22:26.260 --> 01:22:39.460 the absence of vitamin E, the PUFA prostaglandin histamine interactions would cause iron deposition 01:22:39.460 --> 01:22:46.700 and scleroderma-like condition. 01:22:46.700 --> 01:22:59.860 He showed that iron excess and vitamin E deficiency activating the PUFA oxidation created rats 01:22:59.860 --> 01:23:02.600 that were like an armadillo. 01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:07.140 You could tap them with a pencil and it sounded like they had a shell. 01:23:07.140 --> 01:23:08.980 Their skin was so calcified. 01:23:08.980 --> 01:23:17.300 Well, okay, that doesn't sound great. 01:23:17.300 --> 01:23:20.460 That certainly doesn't sound great. 01:23:20.460 --> 01:23:25.260 That's that is very interesting. 01:23:25.260 --> 01:23:28.660 Have you heard of the term theroptosis? 01:23:28.660 --> 01:23:31.820 Oh, yeah. 01:23:31.820 --> 01:23:46.740 In fact, that's part of the current newsletter I mean to write in the next few days is how 01:23:46.740 --> 01:23:53.380 that concept really is an extension of what Hans Selye was working on. 01:23:53.380 --> 01:24:04.060 He would inject iron chloride, for example, and create a predisposition to tissue injury, 01:24:04.060 --> 01:24:10.260 cell death, inflammation, calcification, fibrosis, and so on. 01:24:10.260 --> 01:24:24.380 Interesting. Yeah, I mean, theroptosis to me sounds like a description of how iron catalyzes 01:24:24.380 --> 01:24:25.380 PUFA oxidation. 01:24:25.380 --> 01:24:30.180 And, you know, I think blaming it on the iron is a bit misleading. 01:24:30.180 --> 01:24:37.160 Yeah, I think Hans Selye was on the right course 60 years ago. 01:24:37.160 --> 01:24:41.180 Dr. Peat, how does one subscribe to your newsletter? 01:24:41.180 --> 01:24:48.220 And I ask you this because I would like to, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners would 01:24:48.220 --> 01:24:50.580 be interested in doing so as well. 01:24:50.580 --> 01:25:02.900 Yeah, the email address is raypeat's Newsletter with the S but no apostrophe at gmail.com. 01:25:02.900 --> 01:25:07.540 Gmail or Gmail? 01:25:07.540 --> 01:25:11.980 Gmail.com. 01:25:11.980 --> 01:25:15.020 And just send an email asking to be subscribed? 01:25:15.020 --> 01:25:21.900 It costs $20 for 12 issues over two years, bimonthly. 01:25:21.900 --> 01:25:22.900 Okay. 01:25:22.900 --> 01:25:29.980 I wanted to ask you quickly, we recently interviewed Professor Bruce Hammack of UC Davis who's 01:25:29.980 --> 01:25:31.660 been studying linoleic acid. 01:25:31.660 --> 01:25:37.120 He was first looking at burn patients and how they were affected by their high amounts 01:25:37.120 --> 01:25:43.420 of linoleic acid in their body and how their infections were correlated to that. 01:25:43.420 --> 01:25:48.620 And then he discovered the soluble epoxide hydrolase enzyme. 01:25:48.620 --> 01:25:53.440 Go ahead, David, sorry. 01:25:53.440 --> 01:26:01.680 And he recently published a paper in Frontiers in Physiology describing that they were examining 01:26:01.680 --> 01:26:08.440 severe COVID patients who had this ARDS disease and he said the majority of them were all, 01:26:08.440 --> 01:26:14.200 you know, every one of the ones they looked at had this high amount of leukotoxin from 01:26:14.200 --> 01:26:19.200 linoleic acid that was causing the acute respiratory distress syndrome. 01:26:19.200 --> 01:26:24.000 Is that similar to what you would suggest is causing a lot of this recurring severe 01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:26.600 cases for this pandemic? 01:26:26.600 --> 01:26:29.200 Oh, yeah. 01:26:29.200 --> 01:26:44.440 The iron and PUFA are exactly part of any stress reaction of viral inflammatory thrombotic 01:26:44.440 --> 01:26:47.320 diseases. 01:26:47.320 --> 01:26:56.840 That's all the sort of thing that Han Selye was exploring in the 1960s. 01:26:56.840 --> 01:27:00.880 So iron is just as problematic as PUFA as a stressor? 01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:04.160 Well, they go together. 01:27:04.160 --> 01:27:16.160 When your energy production slows down because of PUFA, the tissue has many reactions so 01:27:16.160 --> 01:27:30.280 that a defensive reaction to any sort of injury or infection increases the heme oxygenase 01:27:30.280 --> 01:27:42.680 production and potentially antioxidant process, but the heme oxygenase breaks down heme depositing 01:27:42.680 --> 01:27:52.040 iron in the tissue as well as carbon monoxide further slowing down mitochondrial energy 01:27:52.040 --> 01:27:57.280 production while the iron accumulates. 01:27:57.280 --> 01:28:10.440 And so the more iron that's available, the lower the energy production in reaction to 01:28:10.440 --> 01:28:16.520 injury or infection, the worse the outcome is going to be. 01:28:16.520 --> 01:28:27.200 So iron chelators, for example, can be therapeutic in some situations, but just reducing the 01:28:27.200 --> 01:28:38.600 amount of iron in your diet and milk and cheese as major factors in the diet are going to 01:28:38.600 --> 01:28:48.920 protect you very quickly against the retained iron excess, make you less susceptible to 01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:58.400 degenerative injury, pharoptosis, inflammation and so on from any stressor including viruses. 01:28:58.400 --> 01:29:05.120 So should you reduce your red meat consumption even if you've gotten rid of your PUFA consumption, 01:29:05.120 --> 01:29:07.880 you know, reduce your seed oil consumption completely? 01:29:07.880 --> 01:29:20.040 Yeah, the meat not only has a very out of balance iron excess relative to copper and 01:29:20.040 --> 01:29:28.680 other minerals, it also has an imbalance in the direction of tryptophan and cysteine which 01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:39.360 are anti-thyroid pro-inflammatory amino acids and an extremely out of balance excess of 01:29:39.360 --> 01:29:52.560 phosphate which is an excitatory agent counteracting the protective quieting effects of calcium. 01:29:52.560 --> 01:30:00.720 Some have suggested that these high amounts of PUFA consumption are creating and are inducing 01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:05.920 a state of torpor in humans and that's why there's a constant low energy state and a 01:30:05.920 --> 01:30:12.760 desire to overeat and be lethargic and to almost get ready for hibernation almost. 01:30:12.760 --> 01:30:23.600 Yeah, the temperature is lowered, animals that are going to hibernate load up on seeds 01:30:23.600 --> 01:30:34.360 for example in the late summer and early fall, they tremendously increase their PUFA content 01:30:34.360 --> 01:30:44.960 and shift that brings up serotonin activity which helps to lower the body temperature. 01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:52.720 Interesting, so you do believe that the high PUFA consumption probably is inducing a kind 01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:55.400 of torpid state for people, for humans? 01:30:55.400 --> 01:31:02.480 Yeah, the experimenters have deprived them of PUFA and they didn't go into torpor or 01:31:02.480 --> 01:31:03.480 hibernation. 01:31:03.480 --> 01:31:04.480 Animals, animal models. 01:31:04.480 --> 01:31:05.480 Yeah. 01:31:05.480 --> 01:31:12.800 Interesting, so that's interesting to consider that as what's going on here then. 01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:22.360 Well, there's also a human experiment, I mean an N=1 where a woman who was on a low omega-6 01:31:22.360 --> 01:31:29.120 diet started eating omega-6 and her metabolic rate went down pretty promptly. 01:31:29.120 --> 01:31:31.240 That was done with... 01:31:31.240 --> 01:31:39.240 About 50 years ago, someone did a very illuminating rat experiment. 01:31:39.240 --> 01:31:53.200 They divided I think it was 15 different diet compositions with either high and low PUFA 01:31:53.200 --> 01:32:03.760 content and either high or low saturated fat content and intermediate diets to all of those 01:32:03.760 --> 01:32:13.960 and at the end of a long period, most of their life, they analyzed their body composition 01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:26.320 and found that the highest body fat corresponded to the proportion of PUFA in the diet, not 01:32:26.320 --> 01:32:35.800 the quantity and was lowest in the diets with the proportion of saturated fats, not the 01:32:35.800 --> 01:32:49.800 quantity, so that the high saturated fat diets produced leaner animals ultimately than a 01:32:49.800 --> 01:32:54.200 low PUFA diet. 01:32:54.200 --> 01:32:57.520 It was the proportion, not the quantity. 01:32:57.520 --> 01:33:00.280 So now, so that's the... 01:33:00.280 --> 01:33:03.040 Sorry, go ahead. 01:33:03.040 --> 01:33:07.280 That illustrates the slowing of the metabolic rate. 01:33:07.280 --> 01:33:16.240 So that's the PS ratio, the polyunsaturated to saturated ratio that Ancel Keys suggested 01:33:16.240 --> 01:33:23.820 having a high PS ratio would protect you from heart disease and when that was tested experimentally 01:33:23.820 --> 01:33:32.760 in humans in the Leon diet heart study, they found a massive decrease in subsequent cardiovascular 01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:36.720 events in the people with the low PS ratio. 01:33:36.720 --> 01:33:44.000 It sounds like that may be a more fundamental indicator of health than just the effects 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:45.000 on obesity. 01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:56.800 Yeah, the saturation index, the opposite of the PS ratio, high saturated proportion corresponds 01:33:56.800 --> 01:34:05.920 to species that are naturally longer-lived, they are naturally more saturated and the 01:34:05.920 --> 01:34:15.560 cancer-prone individuals are low saturation index, they are more highly polyunsaturated 01:34:15.560 --> 01:34:19.800 if they're likely to get cancer. 01:34:19.800 --> 01:34:20.800 Interesting. 01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:29.080 A researcher named Brad Marshall went and researched the USDA data for food consumption, 01:34:29.080 --> 01:34:33.520 caloric consumption for Americans in 1938. 01:34:33.520 --> 01:34:42.120 He looked at different groups and he found that the average caloric intake for a unit 01:34:42.120 --> 01:34:49.640 for a human was like over 4,000 calories a day in 1938 and everybody was relatively thin 01:34:49.640 --> 01:34:54.160 and they weren't eating the poofa like we are today. 01:34:54.160 --> 01:34:58.920 Do you believe that they were eating higher amounts of calories on average in those days 01:34:58.920 --> 01:35:01.320 than we are today? 01:35:01.320 --> 01:35:11.640 Oh yeah, even in the 1930s, Broda Barnes studying different populations found that there was 01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:20.480 a fairly significant part of the population that was hypothyroid but that proportion has 01:35:20.480 --> 01:35:29.160 drastically increased during the time that we've been promoting unsaturated seed oils 01:35:29.160 --> 01:35:38.040 as a major so-called essential fatty acid source and when you look at the amount of 01:35:38.040 --> 01:35:53.040 grains in the diet and things that are sources of unsaturated fats versus fruits for example 01:35:53.040 --> 01:36:00.480 that help us make the saturated fats, the obesity of the population corresponds to the 01:36:00.480 --> 01:36:07.760 starches and poofa in the diet, not the sugar. 01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:08.760 Even table sugar? 01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:09.760 Sorry, go ahead. 01:36:09.760 --> 01:36:16.240 I was just saying even table sugar doesn't have a core connection? 01:36:16.240 --> 01:36:27.920 Yeah, the same thing that the diabetes doctors 150 years ago found. 01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:37.280 Even table sugar supports our metabolic calorie burning better than a grain-based starchy 01:36:37.280 --> 01:36:38.280 diet. 01:36:38.280 --> 01:36:39.280 Interesting. 01:36:39.280 --> 01:36:49.680 So Dr. Peat, what's the takeaway for people? 01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:54.160 Of the things we've discussed and of obviously the larger body of work that you've put together, 01:36:54.160 --> 01:36:59.560 what would you say are the most important alterations one ought to make in one's diet 01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:04.400 to achieve a more optimal health? 01:37:04.400 --> 01:37:16.720 More fruit and milk would be the key simple things and sunlight and definitely avoiding 01:37:16.720 --> 01:37:20.400 all of the added poofa. 01:37:20.400 --> 01:37:30.640 Everything you buy in the supermarket is somehow distorted or even trying to put poofa in the 01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:41.480 milk by feeding chemical mixtures to cows that prevent the protective saturation that 01:37:41.480 --> 01:37:42.480 the rumen does. 01:37:42.480 --> 01:37:43.680 What about olive oil? 01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:47.640 You hear a lot of people wanting olive oil as a healthy thing. 01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:58.560 Yeah, if it's actually good tasting, first-pressing olive oil. 01:37:58.560 --> 01:38:04.160 Also when you don't want is what they call light olive oil. 01:38:04.160 --> 01:38:14.440 It has a much higher poofa content, but a good first-pressing olive oil is only 8 or 01:38:14.440 --> 01:38:17.440 10% poofa usually. 01:38:17.440 --> 01:38:19.320 Very good. 01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:20.320 Right. 01:38:20.320 --> 01:38:21.320 Right. 01:38:21.320 --> 01:38:24.000 This all has been very fascinating, Dr. Peat. 01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:26.640 We really appreciate everything you've shared with us. 01:38:26.640 --> 01:38:27.640 Yes. 01:38:27.640 --> 01:38:32.160 It's as always great cause for thought and further research. 01:38:32.160 --> 01:38:36.160 Thank you for your time. 01:38:36.160 --> 01:38:41.360 Can you give out that email again for those who want to subscribe to your newsletter? 01:38:41.360 --> 01:38:53.400 RayPeat's newsletter at gmail.com, $28 for 12 issues over two years. 01:38:53.400 --> 01:38:57.920 Just to be perfectly clear, that's because I've already tried to send an email to it 01:38:57.920 --> 01:39:03.880 and mistyped the email address and got a correction sent back to me. 01:39:03.880 --> 01:39:11.000 It's RayPeat's newsletter. 01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:15.360 If you leave the S out, somebody will send you back an automatic correction. 01:39:15.360 --> 01:39:19.560 That's good they corrected. 01:39:19.560 --> 01:39:24.160 I suppose whoever it is has gotten a lot of these. 01:39:24.160 --> 01:39:27.520 But at any rate, thank you, Dr. Peat. 01:39:27.520 --> 01:39:29.680 This has been very educational. 01:39:29.680 --> 01:39:35.840 I've got screen fulls of open references from our conversation and it's going to take a 01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:44.280 little while to process all of this stuff, but it's been really quite enlightening. 01:39:44.280 --> 01:39:45.280 Good talking to you. 01:39:45.280 --> 01:39:46.280 Yeah, you too. 01:39:46.280 --> 01:39:47.280 Take care. 01:39:47.280 --> 01:39:48.400 Have a great day. 01:39:48.400 --> 01:39:49.400 Bye. 01:39:49.400 --> 01:39:49.400 [music] 01:39:49.400 --> 01:39:54.400 [music] 01:39:54.400 --> 01:40:01.400 [music] 01:40:01.400 --> 01:40:08.400 [music] 01:40:09.400 --> 01:40:14.400 [music]