WEBVTT 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:03.200 Well, welcome Dr. Peat. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.480 Thank you again so much for being available to me. 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.940 It's a great pleasure and privilege to say the least. 0:00:09.940 --> 0:00:15.400 So what I wanted to discuss today, as I just mentioned to you before we started recording, 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:23.920 are various aspects of what's becoming very, very, very du jour, very big now, is the 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:25.000 ketogenic diet, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.040 in particular for dealing with cancer 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.940 and a number of other degenerative diseases. 0:00:32.940 --> 0:00:37.100 So the diet that, in particular, 0:00:37.100 --> 0:00:40.220 the guy who's written, I think, the best about it, 0:00:40.220 --> 0:00:44.220 although he is not a physician, he's a PhD biologist, 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:46.400 you probably have heard of him. although he is not a physician, he's a PhD biologist. 0:00:48.620 --> 0:00:52.980 You probably have heard of him. That is Dr. Seyfried, Dr. Thomas Seyfried 0:00:52.980 --> 0:00:56.160 at Boston College, yes? 0:00:57.060 --> 0:00:59.340 Yeah, I don't really know anything about him, 0:00:59.340 --> 0:01:00.560 but I've heard of him. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:09.880 Okay, so he wrote a rather big book on all of this, where he was basically challenging, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.560 which I know is certainly in your ballpark, the genetic aspect of disease and saying, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.520 no, it ain't genetics. 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:22.880 It's the basic metabolic aspects of the body. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.120 And what he has been researching and has quite a number of 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.600 people now who are coming to these meetings on a yearly basis about the use 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:39.440 of a restricted ketogenic diet, keeping the ketones up and the glucose down so 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:46.400 that the ratio between glucose and ketones is in the nature of one. That is, you know, the ketones, 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:51.400 the glucose divided by the ketone measurements 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.560 coming to a ratio of one, which is pretty, 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.240 pretty heavy duty. 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.780 And I've begun to experiment with that 0:02:00.780 --> 0:02:06.440 just to get a sense of what happens to my body as I use it. And I'm 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:11.780 certainly noticing that when I eat too much protein, bordering on what would 0:02:11.780 --> 0:02:20.280 usually be accepted as good, that is about about one gram of protein per 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:27.760 kilo, my glucose stays too high and the ketones don't come up sufficiently. 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:34.560 Anyway, what are your thoughts about that concept of the restricted ketogenic diet 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.080 and its good possible good aspects and what do you see as the deficits? 0:02:42.500 --> 0:02:46.400 and what do you see as the deficits? 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:52.640 I think the basic worry is that the cortisol level 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.000 is going to be kept up if you keep your cortisol, keep your glucose too low. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.960 But one of the things that there are quite a few 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:09.440 publications on now is the ketone body ratio, 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:18.320 and what they talk about usually as ketones, actually one of them isn't a ketone at all, 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:53.800 and the ratio of these so-called ketone bodies, acetoacetate and I guess it's... beta...keto...butyrate...something sounds wrong with the way im saying it, but anyway, oh! alpha... betahydroxybutyrate 0:03:53.800 --> 0:04:13.800 acetoacetate and the beta hydroxy. And the hydroxy is a hydroxy or an alcohol, not a ketone. And the cancer physiology is high in the hydroxys, the reduced form, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:27.400 and low in the actual ketones. And what you want is the actual high ketone ratio, high ketone body ratio, keeping the alcohols low, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.640 because that goes with the NADH, 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.160 NAD ratio being in cancer, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.120 the NADH reduced form is higher, 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:44.120 and the lactate pyruvate ratio in cancer is high. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:45.640 the lactate pyruvate ratio in cancer is high. 0:04:49.580 --> 0:04:52.540 All of the cell components shift in the direction of reduction in cancer. 0:04:52.540 --> 0:04:57.540 And so when you're starving or diabetic, 0:05:01.140 --> 0:05:09.000 typically you go heavily towards the reduced state of the cell because the 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:20.960 fatty acids block pyruvic dehydrogenase, which is how you're oxidizing glucose normally. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:29.760 The Randle cycle, in which you have a competition between glucose oxidation and fatty acid oxidation. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:39.920 It's that the fatty acids which rise in stress block the pyruvic dehydrogenase, 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:52.000 keeping you from oxidizing glucose. And this is the state of diabetes or stress or starvation. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:06:05.000 And it involves the failure to fully oxidize the lactic acid pyruvate pair or the NADH-NAD pair, 0:06:08.060 --> 0:06:13.060 ascorbic acid and dehydroascorbate. 0:06:15.180 --> 0:06:16.600 In the healthy cell, 0:06:17.540 --> 0:06:21.080 ascorbic acid is in the highly oxidized form. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.580 In the cancer cell, it goes the other way. 0:06:23.580 --> 0:06:28.120 So the whole shift of stress and cancer 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:36.120 is away from oxidation towards reduction. And fatty acids are right at the center of 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:47.740 that by blocking the dehydrogenase. Okay, well in terms of just what you're just speaking about, as you 0:06:47.740 --> 0:06:55.620 know I'm sure, Linus Pauling got really huge on vitamin C and it is interesting 0:06:55.620 --> 0:07:00.920 that the NIH never gave him $50,000 which is all he was asking for to do 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:08.320 research on the importance of vitamin C. But how do you see his notion about, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.440 I think he was talking about 10,000 milligrams 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.120 of vitamin C a day, and he didn't care what kind it was, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.840 he just said, you know, get the cheapest you can. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.520 How would that play a part in what you were just talking 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.320 about in terms of that? 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:28.000 Robert Cathcart advocated taking vitamin C to bowel tolerance. 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.000 And I said, well, laxatives are good, especially for cancer patients. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:38.000 And bowel tolerance means cathartic effect. 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:47.680 And I think that's a big part of those huge doses of oral vitamin C. But the metabolic effect of vitamin C 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:58.880 is as an oxidant. Since it's in the dehydro-oxidized form inside the cell, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:05.000 it's really functioning primarily as an oxidant, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:11.000 protecting the various apparatuses of the cell 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.160 by keeping them, their folding, conformation, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.880 everything is regulated by whether they're oxidized 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.760 or reduced, and so the oxidized state of vitamin C 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.960 is one of the essential things for keeping the 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:33.600 electrons guided away from disruption and towards the oxygen elimination. 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:42.400 Okay, so that would be also along the lines, if I understand it correctly, of what adequate 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.080 maintenance of carbon dioxide in the system would do as well. That is, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.800 it would restore the proteins through the cardinal adsorbent property. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:58.240 Yeah. Yeah. The vitamin C is doing it catalytically, actually moving electrons through 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:09.520 it on the way to being consumed by oxygen and producing eventually the carbon dioxide balance 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:11.680 instead of lactic acid. 0:09:11.680 --> 0:09:13.800 But the carbon dioxide, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:15.900 rather than being a catalyst 0:09:15.900 --> 0:09:18.440 in the sense of moving electrons, 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:23.440 it's slightly retracting electrons 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.000 from the whole protein system. 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:31.240 And this is what Szent-Gyorgyi visualized vitamin C as doing. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:35.040 He and Pauling talked about that a lot. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.440 And I think they agreed on that, 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.040 that vitamin C was a very good candidate 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:50.320 with its activated carbonyl groups as the equivalent. Carbon dioxide has its 0:09:51.520 --> 0:10:00.000 basically carbonyl structure and vitamin C has its like an extension of carbon dioxide. So 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:06.800 what it's doing is apart from its catalytic movement of electrons, it's pulling 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:18.480 partial oxidation, shifting the reactivity and the pH, or dissociation constant of the proteins, 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:30.520 making the proteins more acidic. So the whole system is shifted to a more oxidized state. And in that state, sulfhydryls, that's the 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:45.000 glutathione, the thiol group of glutathione, when you get oxidized, you get the GSSG structure rather than the GSH structure. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.880 So when you have the oxidized glutathiones 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:59.880 or disulfide bonds, the cell is relatively locked up 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.000 and tightly structured so that it runs like a tight machine. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.000 When you reduce it, get free electrons 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:15.600 and the dissociation constants and redox balance 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.560 in the direction of the more sulfhydryls, 0:11:21.680 --> 0:11:34.360 then you favor de-differentiation and the promotion of cell division rather than differentiated 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:54.720 function. famous biologist who just died a few years ago, was in the 1950s, his co-worker was a Japanese 0:11:54.720 --> 0:12:35.720 whose last name was Dan, but Dan Mezian and this assistant of his demonstrated that staining for sulfhydryl reduced state. All through the 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:48.000 mitotic process, the cell is loaded with sulfhydryl glucose. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.000 Well, now, you know, we've spoken before about, and there's a huge amount, of course, that's been speaking about glutathione, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.000 but never in the detail that you're talking about. 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.000 It's talked about usually as an antioxidant, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:08.680 and then inositolcysteine and alpha-lipoic acid together as precursors 0:13:08.680 --> 0:13:14.280 for your body to make the more glutathione. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:30.800 That ideology has come up since the 1950s with Harmon's free radical oxidative damage theory of aging, and that has its own history. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:38.720 Partly it was pushed ahead in the around 1942, I think it was, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:57.000 Chickens and lab animals were experiencing brain and gonadal degeneration, softening of the brain and decomposition of the testes. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:07.360 And it turned out that it was a vitamin E deficiency caused by feeding them too much of the unsaturated fatty acids. 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:15.680 And up until that time, vitamin E had been considered the anti-estrogen, anti-clotting, 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:32.080 heart protective, anti-inflammatory vitamin. Suddenly, because of the brain gonad diseases, it shifted to becoming conceived as 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:49.280 an antioxidant. And then those diseases associated with eating unsaturated fats and not enough vitamin E led to the thought that disease, degenerative diseases 0:14:49.280 --> 0:15:07.000 preventable by vitamin E are an anti-estrogen. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:17.520 The PUFA degenerative process was really a promotion of estrogenic antiphyroid processes, 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:28.880 and vitamin E was exercising its prothyroid anti-estrogen function. So I think the whole thing went wrong between about 1942 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:33.880 and when Harmon wrote his famous article 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:40.160 on oxidative theory of aging. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:53.880 So now glutathione, rather than integrating Dan Asia's work showing that the glutathione 0:15:53.880 --> 0:16:06.000 pops up sharply during the mitotic process and then disappears, you can hardly identify any by staining in the differentiated cell. 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:15.000 But in the dividing cell, it's all, it's just like a black blob of glutathione, highly reduced. 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:29.280 And if people have that image in their mind, that the healthy cell is oxidized with very little free thiol, very little free glutathione 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:39.920 compared to the oxidized part of it, then people would not be so free about eating or injecting 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:45.360 glutathione. I think it's likely to promote cancer growth, for example. 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.720 Hmm. Well, and it's become in many circles, as I'm sure you're aware, 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:57.760 glutathione has become sort of like King and taking a lot of the precursors 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:02.960 like in acetylcysteine and alpha lipoic acid, you know, are a big thing. 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.160 And as you say, they even have, they have patches, 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.360 glutathione patches, which are very expensive, 0:17:09.360 --> 0:17:11.600 which you put on to get more glutathione 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.000 coming into your system. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:15.080 So that's it. 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.640 Now, you've often spoken about vitamin E in many contexts. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:23.280 And so I'm getting that the protective aspect 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.900 of vitamin E that you're talking about here is not directly related, if I'm getting that the protective aspect of vitamin E that you're talking about here 0:17:25.900 --> 0:17:35.620 is not directly related, if I'm correct, not directly related to the notion of a antioxidative 0:17:35.620 --> 0:17:39.560 effect, but rather is the anti-estrogenic effect. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:40.560 Am I correct? 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:41.560 Yeah. 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.960 And anti-inflammatory, same idea, and pro-thyroid. 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:45.000 Yes. And what type of vitamin E, or doesn't it make any difference? Yeah, and anti-inflammatory, same idea, and prothyroid. 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:49.000 Yes, and what type of vitamin E, or doesn't it make any difference? 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:55.000 Like the tocopherols are usually recommended, you know, the big tocopherols. 0:17:55.000 --> 0:18:09.000 But what, does it make any difference, or what vitamin E in particular? As long as they're the dextroform, I think they all have overlapping functions. 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:14.000 The dextroform, I'm not familiar with what that means. 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:15.000 D-alpha. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.000 Oh, D-alpha, okay, I'm sorry. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:18.000 Not D-L. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.000 D-alpha, okay, very good, all right. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:25.360 Now, get back to what you were just talking about, 0:18:25.360 --> 0:18:31.880 about people having diarrhea from taking too much vitamin C, or the notion of 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:37.680 bowel tolerance. What Seyfried, this is again coming back to Thomas Seyfried at 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:45.000 Boston College, the biologist there who's written pretty good stuff about the notion 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:46.460 about the ketogenic diet. 0:18:46.460 --> 0:18:51.020 What he's saying is that's crucial is not too much protein 0:18:51.940 --> 0:18:54.000 and slightly restricted diet. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.960 Now I remember some time ago, you speaking about 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.340 or hearing you speak about or write about 0:19:00.340 --> 0:19:03.520 that the notion that the low calorie diet 0:19:04.580 --> 0:19:09.180 was so life-giving, 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:11.320 and you'd see these people, 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.040 I remember Seyfried has this funny comment 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:14.960 which he says, well, he saw a bunch of these people 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.800 who there's a society for very low-calorie people, 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.440 and he said they all sit around in meetings 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:21.660 and share one grape. 0:19:21.660 --> 0:19:26.420 But if I remember correctly you were saying that 0:19:26.420 --> 0:19:31.880 the key there was not necessarily the reduced calories but rather maybe I'm 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.520 wrong but it was something about vitamin b6 that you had spoken about in regard 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:41.040 to or something else that did. Oh well there are several things that yeah the 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:46.680 type of protein is really crucial that That's why I have talked about 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:51.320 Gelatin because it's free of the sulfur 0:19:54.360 --> 0:19:55.480 amino acids cysteine and methionine and 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.440 tryptophan and these all 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:01.720 These are the 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.240 three 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:04.920 potentially toxic 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:05.000 amino acids. 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.920 Cysteine is involved in excitotoxic damage 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:13.800 of the brain cells. 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:18.800 Tryptophan is in various ways pro-inflammatory. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.000 And just restricting a diet for one of these, 0:20:26.460 --> 0:20:30.480 either the sulfur amino acids or tryptophan, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:35.480 for example, a methionine-free diet extended rats or mice, 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:40.020 I forget which, longevity by 40%. 0:20:40.020 --> 0:20:43.860 And a tryptophan-deprived or limited diet 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.840 extends longevity and degenerative, 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.880 eliminates degenerative processes. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.800 And the other thing in a low-calorie diet, 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:01.800 I think the main thing is less polyunsaturated fat, 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:07.680 but also less of the heavy metals that interact with PUFA. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:14.320 Yeah, well now they also start quoting, which I know you've spoken to before, the 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:20.800 China study. And in the China study, one of the things he's pointing to also is 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:28.080 keeping the percentage of protein, complete proteins low, but doesn't speak to 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:33.600 this issue that you're talking about, about these specific ones, cysteine, methionine, 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:43.320 and tryptophan, which raise also parathyroid hormone, if I'm... that's one of the measures 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.000 that you can look at? 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:51.440 Well, inflammation goes with parathyroid, 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.960 but I don't think they, 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:59.960 I haven't seen anything specific about that being studied. 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.840 Well, what was the, there's a blood, I'm forgetting now, 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.760 there was a blood test that, I believe it was a blood test that Danny has spoken 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:13.360 about and you'd spoken about that had to do with parathyroid and, um, um, 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:15.040 well, um, 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:20.440 magnesium calcium and vitamin D are important for keeping your parathyroid 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:21.840 hormone low. 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:27.480 Magnesium, vitamin D, and calcium. 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:29.760 Oh, right, and calcium. 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:38.120 Now, milk, which of course you are very heavily in favor of people drinking on a regular basis. 0:22:38.120 --> 0:22:45.000 I'm starting to look at getting the raw milk, good quality, high quality raw milk 0:22:45.340 --> 0:22:46.220 in the New York area, 0:22:46.220 --> 0:22:48.220 which I think I've got a good source of. 0:22:49.380 --> 0:22:52.460 So milk, it doesn't present the same kind of issue. 0:22:52.460 --> 0:22:55.580 Milk and good cheeses don't present this issue as much. 0:22:55.580 --> 0:22:56.540 Am I correct? 0:22:56.540 --> 0:22:58.420 I think it's that the, 0:22:58.420 --> 0:23:02.940 there are some peptides in casein 0:23:02.940 --> 0:23:04.820 that seem to be anti-stress, 0:23:04.820 --> 0:23:06.060 but I think mainly it's the 0:23:06.060 --> 0:23:14.120 high calcium content that pushes your parathyroid hormone down and parathyroid 0:23:14.120 --> 0:23:31.920 hormone is a promoter of inflammation and so then the tryptophan is effectively defanged by taking your vitamin D and calcium high. 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:37.320 Yes, as I understand it from a conversation you had with Danny, that you pretty much kept 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:47.520 your calcium levels up, the consummation of calcium up to 2,500 milligrams a day on an average for many years now. 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.160 Yeah, and most of that you're getting through the milk or? 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:52.280 Milk and cheese. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.920 I think I probably on average get closer 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:03.600 to 3000 milligrams per day for foods. 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:11.640 Now, how does that match with the notion of the paleo people? 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:17.560 But going back before that with the China study, 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:21.680 the notion that green plants, consuming green plants, 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:25.000 a large amount of green plants, also provide that? 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:32.400 Yeah, they're great sources of calcium and magnesium, but the trouble is that 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:45.840 the green plants are the energy source of that plant organism, and they're susceptible to being grazed. 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:49.940 And so the plants, liking to survive, 0:24:49.940 --> 0:24:55.760 put bitter and toxic components into the leaves 0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:58.840 to discourage grazing. 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:03.760 And especially when they're raw, green leaves 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:05.000 are very bad for the system. 0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:08.840 They damage the intestine and the ability 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.560 to digest proteins, for example. 0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:17.480 And so the plant intends them to be bad food, 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:22.480 but by cooking them and choosing young leaves, 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:29.000 you can pretty well defend yourself against those plant toxic defenses. 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:33.800 Well, is that part of why the ruminants like cows and so on and horses, 0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:38.960 that they seem to be able to tolerate that stuff well because of the long time of digestion? 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:46.240 Well, they set it aside into the rumen and let bacteria and fungus break it down. 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.960 Uh-huh. I see. 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:56.600 Mammals don't contain the necessary, the plants outsmarted mammals in general, but then cows 0:25:56.600 --> 0:26:05.320 set up their own chemical processing lab using microorganisms to work. That's wonderful, I love it. 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:09.080 Okay, all right, so now next piece 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:14.080 about this ketogenic diet that Seyfried is talking about, 0:26:15.580 --> 0:26:19.500 and I don't, I'm resisting buying that book, 0:26:19.500 --> 0:26:24.500 it's too expensive, it's about $100, his big book. 0:26:24.740 --> 0:26:27.040 I'm trying to find more specifics some other 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:32.820 way about what he's talking about. But he's speaking about an interesting combination 0:26:32.820 --> 0:26:49.240 of the ketogenic, the restrictive ketogenic diet, low amount of protein and calories, along with, of all things, hyperbaric oxygen. 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:55.120 They don't know about the concept of reduced breathing, 0:26:55.120 --> 0:26:59.040 raising carbon dioxide to achieve a much better result. 0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:01.580 I remember you talking about that person who had, 0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:07.600 was it a tumor, I think on his on his on in his throat, and they 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:14.000 put him in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber with 5% carbon dioxide, and it just dissolved the tumor. 0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:20.560 Well, it relieved the congestion enough that he could suddenly talk. 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:27.760 Yeah, and if I understand correctly, part of what was going on was that the idea of 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:37.280 the hydrophilic aspect of the tissue, and then the water was just sort of let go by 0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:51.800 using the carbon dioxide to re... The pH, if you take jello and add soda to it to raise the pH, it liquefies. 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:59.320 And if you acidify it, it contracts and gives off water. 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:02.360 That's a general thing about protein gels. 0:28:02.360 --> 0:28:07.360 And the cell behaves exactly that way. Raise the pH and it swells up and 0:28:07.360 --> 0:28:17.040 becomes reduced and tends to divide. And the carbon dioxide lowers the pH of the protein system, 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:29.840 makes it simply squeeze out the water just like a jelly does a physical, simple physical change, there's lower affinity for water. 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:39.520 And the electrons are retracted in effect as the pH goes down. 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:48.000 So this is when you talk about estrogen, histamine, and nitric oxide increasing the structural temperature of the water 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:56.000 and destabilizing the cell, and then progesterone, cholesterol, oxygen, and carbon dioxide have the opposing effect. 0:28:56.000 --> 0:29:11.840 If we're getting people to breathe less and conserve their carbon dioxide, the same thing is going to be happening. Yeah, and if you look at the difference between estrogen and progesterone structurally, you see 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:28.360 the same ketone groups in progesterone and the hydroxy group in estrogen. Okay. 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:33.880 So I think that pretty much gets us through the pieces 0:29:36.500 --> 0:29:39.280 about the ketogenic diet. And I think what's happening is that they've simply, 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:41.800 they've hooked onto something, but I don't think, 0:29:41.800 --> 0:29:44.120 at least what I've seen so far, 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:50.960 they don't have the explicitness that you're speaking about, which would probably lead them in a better direction 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:56.940 if they understood that, because they're mixing things together. 0:29:56.940 --> 0:30:01.860 For example, you've spoken often about if you're going to eat animal protein, which 0:30:01.860 --> 0:30:07.380 is fine, do not just eat muscle meats. You need to use organ 0:30:07.380 --> 0:30:12.300 meats as well, and of course an egg has everything, so it makes it a little bit 0:30:12.300 --> 0:30:18.120 easier because it's got everything together. The meat has a very bad ratio 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:23.520 of phosphate to calcium, for example. I think that's its biggest drawback, 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:27.100 besides the high iron content, but it's just 0:30:27.100 --> 0:30:35.900 got a terrible excess of phosphate. Same as beans. Beans and meat are phosphate dangerous. 0:30:35.900 --> 0:30:42.480 So you recommend for people, for example, that they have liver, beef liver, a couple 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.000 of times a week, a modest amount, 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:48.060 along with some shellfish. 0:30:48.060 --> 0:30:50.680 And you don't seem to have any concern 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:53.600 about where that shellfish comes from. 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:54.440 Oh, sure. 0:30:56.160 --> 0:31:00.040 Argentina and Maine are probably still good. 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:01.560 Peru. 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:03.760 Yeah, they have shellfish that you can get, 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:07.720 which are called wild caught versus farmed 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:09.720 Most people don't realize an awful lot of shrimp 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:14.440 are being raised in a farm, in shrimp farms, which 0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:16.740 are probably pretty damn toxic the same way 0:31:16.740 --> 0:31:20.120 that some of the fish farms are. 0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:29.520 Yeah, I think you definitely should avoid the sea caught 0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:33.920 fish or shellfish from Japan and Korea. 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:38.360 And there are many places around Europe 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.400 where there is nuclear contamination, as well 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:46.160 as toxic effluents from industry. 0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:56.160 So the whole northern European, I would say, would be avoided. 0:31:56.160 --> 0:32:02.160 Yeah, I think that's a, you know, I've seen many people quoting you about using shellfish, 0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:07.020 but they don't recognize that you're just as careful about, you know, 0:32:07.020 --> 0:32:09.020 where the source of different good foods 0:32:09.020 --> 0:32:12.840 is coming from as anybody is, you know, 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:14.600 and I think that's important, 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.620 but people just seem to latch on to just the idea, 0:32:17.620 --> 0:32:19.100 well, let's just get some good liver 0:32:19.100 --> 0:32:21.400 and let's get some good shellfish, 0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:23.860 rather than recognizing that you're pretty selective about, 0:32:23.860 --> 0:32:28.880 in fact, you notice how your system reacts to something that you're eating, and if it doesn't react well, you figure 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:34.000 this is not a good thing, I'm going to look for another similar product. Yeah, that has happened 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:48.960 with organic milk several times. We had bad reactions, and it tasted bad. And once we looked up where the dairy was because it tasted so funny and there was a 0:32:48.960 --> 0:33:08.720 military metallurgical factory up the highway, Huaqiang, and looking on Google we saw that our organic raw milk dairy was just about a mile downwind from 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:15.680 this horrible stinking factory. And even though it was organic, it apparently had absorbed 0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:19.280 some of the bad smells from the industry. 0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:25.680 Yeah. Well, there were that whole group of Hollywood actors, including John Wayne, who were doing movies, 0:33:26.840 --> 0:33:31.840 years downwind of the atomic bomb exercises. 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:34.640 And of course, they died of cancer. 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.240 Quite a number of them who were working on those movies 0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:41.920 that were working downwind of those explosions, 0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:45.000 which of course had huge exposure. 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.680 Okay, so now if we could move on to, 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:50.360 thank you very much, it's been very helpful. 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:53.640 Move on to the whole thing that you and I have discussed, 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:55.640 but I've not quite nailed it down yet, 0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:57.200 and I think I'm getting closer, 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:02.160 to how carbon dioxide does function 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:05.000 in terms of why people over breathe 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:06.860 and continue to over breathe, 0:34:06.860 --> 0:34:08.720 which is obviously bad for you, 0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:13.760 versus people, you know, once they've done the Buteyko work, 0:34:13.760 --> 0:34:16.160 for example, or any form that helps you 0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:17.740 to reduce your breathing, 0:34:18.720 --> 0:34:23.160 and that if you maintain it long enough, 0:34:23.160 --> 0:34:27.380 your body regulates itself, which may be because if you have 0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:31.220 sufficient maintenance long enough of carbon dioxide in your system 0:34:31.580 --> 0:34:37.120 then the whole system the proteins in the system are really well set up and 0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:41.080 You you don't have the stress you can manage the stress much better 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:50.880 You're not going to get away from stress, but you can manage it much better if your body's well conditioned that way. And again, the notion that is promulgated 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:59.040 in mainstream and in most of the practitioners of Buteyko's work and similar work is that 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:06.960 it's carbon dioxide is not the issue, although that's important. It's the acidifying effect of 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:14.000 the carbon dioxide going into solution that raises the acidity of the blood 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:20.480 properly, not carbon dioxide itself that's making the difference. And so they 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:26.020 then refer to the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation, which you pointed out is a little 0:35:26.020 --> 0:35:32.780 bit off, and talking about how, well, because of the blood-brain barrier, the only way you 0:35:32.780 --> 0:35:49.680 can manage things is to exit the excess from through your kidneys. kidneys, and then you've got the problem which is you're constantly remaining alkaline in 0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:56.800 your blood, and so you're going to over-breathe over and over and over again. 0:35:56.800 --> 0:36:06.080 It never quite made sense to me, and so I'm thinking that maybe it's more along the lines of that the body without sufficient carbon dioxide 0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:15.680 is in a spastic that cells are spasming that you know there's a spasming process that goes on. 0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:29.840 Yeah I think meaningless excitation is what a spasm is. Yes. And I think that's why at menopause, when women are overdosed with estrogen relative 0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:48.880 to the anti-estrogens, androgens and progesterone, estrogen is a nerve muscle excitant and women at menopause typically hyperventilate. And one of the ways estrogen acts 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.800 is to increase nitric oxide. 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:54.460 And in the brain, nitric oxide, 0:36:54.460 --> 0:36:57.100 like histamine, is an excitant. 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:00.960 Yes, you covered that beautifully 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.280 in the last two newsletters, 0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:06.480 where you wrote extensively about the various aspects 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:07.680 of nitric oxide. 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:10.520 And I think that's really vital for people 0:37:10.520 --> 0:37:11.800 to really understand that, 0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:13.560 because it's along with what I'm talking about 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:17.600 just right now is, so if carbon dioxide is low, 0:37:18.560 --> 0:37:20.900 then you have this, as you say, 0:37:23.240 --> 0:37:25.000 well, toxically functional spasming. 0:37:26.660 --> 0:37:29.700 And the system can't quiet down. 0:37:29.700 --> 0:37:32.500 And if it can't quiet down, then it's reaching for oxygen, 0:37:32.500 --> 0:37:35.060 which is not getting out to the cells and tissues. 0:37:35.060 --> 0:37:37.520 And so you try to breathe more 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:40.260 to breathe in more carbon dioxide, oxygen. 0:37:40.260 --> 0:37:42.740 But when you're kicking out carbon dioxide more and more, 0:37:42.740 --> 0:37:44.460 you can't utilize the oxygen. 0:37:44.460 --> 0:37:47.380 So the system is constantly in spasm. 0:37:47.380 --> 0:37:55.440 Yeah, in my last newsletter, I talked about the coronary artery spasm that causes angina 0:37:55.440 --> 0:37:56.540 pains. 0:37:56.540 --> 0:38:03.400 And there's one type of angina that comes on during the night when you're not exercising, 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.000 but when this spastic state 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:08.080 is being increased by stress. 0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:12.760 Yes, yeah, I've twice, unfortunately, I was in, 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.980 you know, tremendous stress in my life a couple of times, 0:38:16.980 --> 0:38:19.920 and one time I started to have angina. 0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:23.000 Now, being a Buteyko practitioner and having seen somebody 0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:28.600 stop a heart attack, one of my early teachers, I knew what to do to stop it and I did. 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:34.280 I just reduced my breathing drastically and the angina went away, but I was terrified 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:35.280 and I went to the hospital. 0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:39.240 Unfortunately, they put, well fortunately or unfortunately, I can't really say, they 0:38:39.240 --> 0:38:48.340 put in a stent and it was the wrong kind of stent, the new stent, which didn't ever get pulled 0:38:48.340 --> 0:38:53.040 into the endothelium. So it was sitting out there as a kind of an edge to get 0:38:53.040 --> 0:38:57.660 thing and it happened again. Again I rescued myself by doing reduced 0:38:57.660 --> 0:39:02.720 breathing, drove myself to the hospital and as I came into the hospital I said 0:39:02.720 --> 0:39:05.100 hi hello I'm having a heart attack. 0:39:07.100 --> 0:39:09.020 And what they did was they put another stent 0:39:09.020 --> 0:39:10.640 in the same place, spread it out, 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:12.500 but they used the older stent, 0:39:12.500 --> 0:39:15.120 and that one has been absorbed into the endothelium, 0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.200 so there's no longer that edge that's there. 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:22.220 But it was reducing the breathing dramatically, 0:39:22.220 --> 0:39:28.440 which then allowed the vessels to expand and open up a bit sufficiently 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:33.640 so that I didn't have, you know, the worst effect of what could have happened. And that, yeah, go 0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:45.000 ahead. A carbon dioxide should be the vascular relaxant. And when you're well saturated with carbon dioxide, 0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:51.640 you don't need the emergency nitric oxide dilator, 0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:54.920 but it simply relaxes your capillaries 0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:56.800 and arteries appropriately. 0:39:56.800 --> 0:40:00.160 So the heart doesn't have the resistance, 0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:03.080 can pump a lot with very little work. 0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:07.040 Yes, early on when Teresa Hale, I was helped, 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:11.840 Teresa Hale is a woman who has the Hale Clinic in England, it's the largest alternative health 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:18.640 clinic in the world, and she came to the United States and contacted me, this was about 1999, 0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:23.120 she came here thinking she was going to open up another clinic here, and we were talking about 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:28.520 the Buteyko work with my, one of of my original teachers and she said we should talk about the hidden 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:33.360 secret which is when you're breathing gets much better your erectile function 0:40:33.360 --> 0:40:42.320 gets much better you don't need Viagra you know so that's been a piece that's 0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:47.520 come along there but it you know we don't talk about it much, 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:48.620 but it should be talked about. 0:40:48.620 --> 0:40:51.320 I've had clients who, after they work with me, 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:54.320 have said, you know, the flagpole is up. 0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:56.680 Now I laugh because it was a similar statement 0:40:56.680 --> 0:41:01.680 that was made in the video with the China syndrome piece, 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:05.000 for one of this lovely man. 0:41:05.900 --> 0:41:09.420 So okay, so I think maybe in this, 0:41:09.420 --> 0:41:13.220 I'm getting closer to I think what really does happen, 0:41:13.220 --> 0:41:16.060 which is this spasming as a consequence 0:41:16.060 --> 0:41:17.860 of low carbon dioxide. 0:41:17.860 --> 0:41:22.120 It can't function as adequately as a cardinal absorbent. 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:30.440 The entire system is in a destructured, destabilized 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:36.920 circumstance and so the body is crying for what it can't get and so it gets you 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:41.000 to breathe more and more and more and continue to do so. And the only way to 0:41:41.000 --> 0:41:46.640 really stop that, two things. One, now you have talked before, I tried it, 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:48.740 but I wasn't successful at it, 0:41:48.740 --> 0:41:53.740 of taking carbon dioxide in a canister 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:58.080 and putting it into a plastic bag and wrapping it around, 0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:00.120 you said you and your wife every once in a while 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:01.520 you sit around with a bag. 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:06.280 And I wasn't very successful at that I guess the 0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:10.600 carbon dioxide was escaping or somehow I wasn't getting enough but the idea there 0:42:10.600 --> 0:42:17.680 was that you were getting it absorbed through the skin and similarly that you 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:26.300 know you could probably take a bath in sodium bicarbonate I don't know yeah there was this old article I think about 1908 a 0:42:26.300 --> 0:42:32.900 guy was praising the effects he said it was like a vacation at the beach to take 0:42:32.900 --> 0:42:37.020 a bath just fill a bathtub with it because it's heavy and sit in the 0:42:37.020 --> 0:42:49.080 bathtub for half an hour oh you mean you just poured carbon dioxide into the bathtub since it's heavy. Wow, that's cool. Well, that, that, if you don't 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:54.160 move to get nobody to move around in the room so you don't get any stirring of the air. When you 0:42:54.160 --> 0:43:01.120 handle the bag, you feel the bag and you can feel it. It's very heavy. And so you have to hold the 0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:08.880 bag open and step into it, like you're climbing into a tub and then when you get into it you take this take the neck shut so it doesn't 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:13.440 squeeze out now I as I said I wasn't successful at that you need a pretty 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:19.240 damn big bag I got one of these great big leaf bags but I maybe I just didn't 0:43:19.240 --> 0:43:28.000 get enough carbon dioxide into it and of course you don't want to have it. You have to start with the bag squeezed empty and then fill it up so it's pure CO2. 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.000 Ah, and also you need to... 0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:36.000 You can feel it, especially on your crotch where the skin is sensitive, it's hot immediately. 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:38.000 You can feel it soaking right in. 0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:39.000 Yeah. 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:45.680 You get pink after about half an hour. And that pinkness lasts usually for a few hours, 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:50.080 meaning that your body is pretty well saturated. 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:52.240 And I would assume that you don't wanna have any clothes on 0:43:52.240 --> 0:43:53.080 when you do that. 0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:55.080 It doesn't matter, it goes right through the clothes. 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:56.120 Oh, cool. 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:57.040 All right, very good. 0:43:57.040 --> 0:43:59.000 Because I was recommending if people wanted to try it, 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:00.720 that they should be very comfortable 0:44:00.720 --> 0:44:02.280 with being nude with somebody else. 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:06.000 Okay, well, Dr. Peat, I just 0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:10.800 want to thank you. This has been very informative as always. If you don't mind, 0:44:10.800 --> 0:44:16.960 I would like to send a copy of this to Danny, Danny Roddy, and what Danny wants 0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:23.840 to do is to put some of these on YouTube. Would that be all right with you? Yeah, I 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:27.400 think so. Okay, let me... 0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:25.800 YouTube would that be all right with you? Yeah, I think so. Okay.