WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:21.360 [Music] 00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:23.560 Hello everyone, I'm Danny Rade of DannyRade.com, 00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:27.040 and today I'm talking with painter, philosopher, biologist, Raymond Peat. 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.160 In this hour-long episode, we'll talk about the creation of the CIA 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.040 and its primary role in shaping the U.S. culture 00:00:33.040 --> 00:00:37.840 through painting, music, language, literature, economics, philosophy, religion, 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:39.840 social activism, and politics. 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:41.840 In addition to thanking Ray for talking with me today, 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:45.840 I'd like to thank my patrons for making this show and all of the content I produce possible. 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:50.160 If you would like to become a patron, please go to patreon.com/dannyrade. 00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:53.280 As always, please do your own research and come to your own conclusions, 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.640 and in the spirit of William Blake, the true method of knowledge is experiment. 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.240 Without further ado, here's the show. 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:09.360 [Music] 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:11.920 I feel like I just like crammed for a test. 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:13.600 [Laughter] 00:01:13.600 --> 00:01:19.120 But I've been, I read your newsletter, I read the article, I forget his name, Paul Grain. 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:23.440 I've read like a few people distilling down that book because I couldn't get a hold of it. 00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:27.600 I read the David Talbot book and I kind of reviewed through that. 00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:32.880 And then I found like a list of CIA atrocities, which was mind-blowing. 00:01:32.880 --> 00:01:36.400 And then you talking about the Indonesian genocide, 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:41.520 I had no idea that's what the act of killing and the sound of silence were about. 00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:45.360 And I mean, I knew it was the general idea, but I didn't put it together. 00:01:45.360 --> 00:01:48.560 And those movies made like a huge impact on me a few years ago. 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:50.960 And so I was pretty shocked. 00:01:51.520 --> 00:01:56.160 And so I guess like starting things off, I guess it might be interesting 00:01:56.160 --> 00:02:00.880 to get your current read on the political situation, because for me, 00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:04.080 that was the thing that got me interested in exploring the past. 00:02:04.080 --> 00:02:06.000 Like how did we end up here? 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:11.040 And your newsletter, specifically when you said that the CIA was, 00:02:11.040 --> 00:02:14.560 I have like a glare on my screen here, 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.440 they were treating the world like an orchard, fertilizing some trees, 00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:20.080 pruning others and removing unwanted trees and weeds. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.240 That was just really interesting to me. 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:24.480 And so I was like, okay, well, if you go back in the past, 00:02:24.480 --> 00:02:26.960 maybe you can figure out how we got here. 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:31.920 And so I guess your general thoughts on like free speech, this left-right thing, 00:02:31.920 --> 00:02:36.560 the media and like race tensions and it being more interesting coming from you 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:40.080 because you've lived through Vietnam, civil rights, et cetera. 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:45.200 - I think that the place you decided to start it is sort of arbitrary. 00:02:47.440 --> 00:02:52.640 My consciousness started early during the Roosevelt time. 00:02:52.640 --> 00:02:56.800 Are you aware? 00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:59.760 - Well, I was gonna ask you, I was gonna get your general thoughts 00:02:59.760 --> 00:03:03.440 on the current situation and then jump right back into like Pearl Harbor. 00:03:03.440 --> 00:03:05.600 But we can start, do you wanna go with Pearl Harbor first 00:03:05.600 --> 00:03:07.840 or go from the place that you wanted to go? 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:16.160 - Well, one perspective I have that sort of brings things up to the present. 00:03:16.160 --> 00:03:22.160 If you look at the coup against FDR in 1933 and '34, 00:03:22.160 --> 00:03:26.800 as described to Congress by a Schmedley Butler, 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:31.040 they went basically quiet for several years. 00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:36.400 The coupists, the great corporations of the country 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:39.040 that wanted to get rid of Roosevelt 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:42.160 because he was committing treason to their class, 00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:50.160 they thought, they went quiet and focused on Harry Truman in the late 1930s 00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:56.560 as their guy who they put in place finally in 1944. 00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:04.400 And then as I see it, they opportunely killed Roosevelt 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:09.680 just before he found out what Allen Dulles was doing with the Nazis. 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:16.240 And so they had Truman in place when they shifted over to the Nazi Dulles side. 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:21.120 And during that time, Fletcher Prouty during the Second World War 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:26.240 was involved in a lot of the secret plans going on in Asia. 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:30.720 And he tells a little about that in his book, "The Secret Team," 00:04:31.520 --> 00:04:37.680 which refers to the sort of privately operated CIA 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:41.680 as related to Nixon and the Kennedy assassination. 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:48.160 And along this stretch of time, you have people like Ted Shackley 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.360 and Ronald Reagan getting put in place 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:56.960 with the assistance of George G. H. W. Bush and the October surprise, 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:04.640 you know, where he went to Paris, I think, was to make deals with the Iranians 00:05:04.640 --> 00:05:09.280 for them not to release the hostages until they got Jimmy Carter out of office. 00:05:09.280 --> 00:05:14.400 On the airplane to Paris with Bush, 00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:18.960 as high officials that everyone knew who was there, 00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:26.560 Senator John Hines and John Tower, conservative right-wing Republicans, 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:29.280 were on that same flight. 00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:36.480 And several years later, on successive days, April 4 and April 5 of '91, 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.040 they both died in airplane crashes. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:46.960 And people who were in a position to know what George Sr. 00:05:46.960 --> 00:05:50.880 and his associates were doing all came to bad ends. 00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:56.160 Nixon and Schlesinger got put out through Watergate 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:00.240 and Carter got put out by various manipulations, 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.840 such as the October surprise. 00:06:01.840 --> 00:06:05.600 And all of these things interact. 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.880 And periodically, someone starts to string the pieces together 00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:16.880 and they very thoroughly get wiped out as far as anything taken seriously goes. 00:06:16.880 --> 00:06:20.880 Like, do you know about Daniel Sheehan and the Christchurch Institute? 00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:21.360 - No. 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.640 - He did a lot of putting together 00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:30.320 and sued the government for murder and assassination and such. 00:06:30.320 --> 00:06:33.440 And even though he had the evidence together, 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:39.040 his organization was destroyed because the judge said it was frivolous. 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:46.800 And he had to pay all of the legal expenses and that bankrupted his organization. 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.800 - Is this along the same lines? 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:53.120 Is when I was looking at the JFK stuff, and I'm skipping super far ahead here, 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:57.360 but they said Edward J. Epstein was one of the biggest critics. 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:02.480 And the idea was that the CIA had enough fortitude, 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:03.440 I don't know the right word, 00:07:03.440 --> 00:07:05.760 but they were saying they set up their critics, 00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:10.480 set up opposition to the ideas so that it would be controlled, basically, afterwards. 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:15.600 - Yeah, I quoted, I think it was Braden, was it, who said, 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:19.680 he called it his mighty whirlature that could play any tune he wanted. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:25.440 And their best loudspeakers were at Washington Post and New York Times. 00:07:25.440 --> 00:07:29.200 And Washington Post was one of the most effective 00:07:29.200 --> 00:07:32.560 in wiping out people like Krystic Institute. 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.120 - And that's Operation Mockingbird, they call it? 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.120 - Oh, yeah, that was one of its time names. 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:41.600 But basically, it's just what they do. 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:46.320 - When I was reading David Talbott's book, he said, like, Henry Luce, the time-life guy, 00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:49.520 was so interconnected to everybody. 00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:53.760 And these major news outlets just had hardcore agendas, 00:07:53.760 --> 00:07:55.840 and were all being manipulated by Dulles, basically. 00:07:55.840 --> 00:07:58.400 - Oh, yeah, they're all the same people. 00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:02.160 The CIA guys were recruited from among those. 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.840 It's like the scum of the ruling class. 00:08:05.840 --> 00:08:10.240 - Okay, stepping back a little bit, 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:11.840 you had mentioned a few times that you thought, like, 00:08:11.840 --> 00:08:13.920 the culture had changed in 1947. 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.000 And so I thought it was interesting that that coincided with the creation of the CIA. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:21.440 And I guess if you wanted to unpack that and talk about that a little bit, 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:22.720 that would be awesome. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:30.960 - Yeah, the 1944 Democrat Convention, I knew several people who were there. 00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:38.720 And they stayed just furiously bitter for 50 years afterwards about what happened. 00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:44.560 Fake tickets were printed up for people who had never been in the election, 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:49.280 and the real delegates were shut out. 00:08:49.280 --> 00:08:54.960 So it was a completely funny convention that chose Truman to be the next president. 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:57.280 - Who do you think was behind that? 00:08:57.280 --> 00:09:02.160 - That same group that started the coup in '33 and '34, 00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:07.360 just the top, Morgan and DuPont were the only names that I recall. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.760 But it was the top powers in the corporations. 00:09:11.760 --> 00:09:14.160 They got Truman in position, 00:09:14.160 --> 00:09:18.960 and then Dulles had been a Nazi finance agent, 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:25.920 but between the banks and the corporations of Germany, Rockefeller and Farben. 00:09:25.920 --> 00:09:29.440 So he was a buddy with all of the top Nazis. 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:34.240 And he was in Switzerland dealing with the Nazis, 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:41.120 arranging for them not to fight the Americans coming up the Italian peninsula, 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.640 so that they could go hold off the Russians 00:09:44.640 --> 00:09:48.480 to keep the Russians from getting all the way through Germany. 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:53.520 And Stalin, through his spies, found out what was going on 00:09:53.520 --> 00:09:58.000 in the first week or two of April of 1945. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.240 And Roosevelt said, "Maybe Stalin is losing it 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:05.040 because this couldn't be happening. 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:13.760 Stalin must be making it up that Dulles is letting the German-Italian branch of the army 00:10:13.760 --> 00:10:15.440 head to the Eastern Front." 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:20.720 And before FDR found out that, in fact, Stalin was right, he was dead. 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.960 And if he had found out, that would have revealed 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.640 that Dulles was leading a pro-Nazi army, basically, 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:34.480 dealing with the Galen Intelligence Organization and the top army people 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:39.360 to unite the Americans with the Nazis against Russia, 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.920 to hold them off so that they could keep control of Western Europe. 00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:49.120 And so the whole denazification thing in Germany was fraudulent. 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.600 They just changed their party labels. 00:10:52.240 --> 00:11:00.480 And as many of the technical people as possible were brought into the US, 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.920 Werner von Braun for the rockets and such. 00:11:03.920 --> 00:11:09.760 And instead of denazifying Germany, the US was nazified. 00:11:09.760 --> 00:11:11.440 >> You were actually there. 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.720 Were there any people saying, like, "What is going on? 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.040 How are these Nazis being brought over here?" 00:11:17.040 --> 00:11:21.760 Was anybody asking those questions, or was the press just not doing its job? 00:11:21.760 --> 00:11:29.360 >> Almost no one was concerned that they said they were denazified, so they're okay. 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:32.800 They were really the good underground Nazis. 00:11:32.800 --> 00:11:41.600 And the Nazi reality never sank in, the thing of Conrad Lorenz getting the Nobel Prize. 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:47.040 He was the architect of genocide. 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:57.840 And even in his post-Nobel book, he kept using all of the ideas that he had presented to Hitler 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:05.680 as the reason for exterminating Black people, gypsies, Jews, Slavs. 00:12:05.680 --> 00:12:14.800 All of the people that got killed wholesale were justified by the specific things that 00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:18.400 Conrad Lorenz wrote, and he kept writing them. 00:12:18.400 --> 00:12:25.280 But instead of saying, I forget what the German word was, but in his newer book, he said 00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:33.040 something less intense than extirpated, something like milder, like weeded out. 00:12:33.040 --> 00:12:39.040 I don't remember the exact language, but it was just slightly milder than genocide. 00:12:39.040 --> 00:12:44.000 >> It reminds me of Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize for dropping bombs for eight years. 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:45.920 >> [Laughter] 00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:50.400 Okay, so 1947, the creation of the CIA under Truman. 00:12:50.400 --> 00:12:58.640 President Truman signs the National Security Act of 1947, and that gives no rules to the CIA. 00:12:58.640 --> 00:13:03.760 >> By that time, he knew who Alan Dulles was, if he had any brain at all. 00:13:03.760 --> 00:13:13.760 That whole thing became fairly public, except it didn't get to Roosevelt in time to save his life. 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:17.040 >> I might have missed it, but why was it necessary to kill Roosevelt? 00:13:17.040 --> 00:13:25.200 >> Well, because Dulles and his people were all committing horrible treason and setting up the 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.440 Cold War, setting up Europe to make war against Russia. 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:36.000 >> And if Stalin was aware of everything that was going on, was there no way for him to 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.240 penetrate the propaganda that would be coming or was happening? 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:40.240 >> No. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:49.440 >> No, because the jukebox was being operated by Dulles and his people. 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:54.080 >> And that's the Congress for Cultural Freedom, or that's just one aspect of it? 00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:00.800 >> Well, yeah, and radio stations and the great newspapers, and 95% of the newspapers 00:14:00.800 --> 00:14:07.280 followed Washington Post and New York Times. There were only three newspapers that were 00:14:07.920 --> 00:14:13.040 known for being independent, and they weren't very independent. It was the, 00:14:13.040 --> 00:14:20.960 what were they, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Medford Mail Tribune, and the Alcohol in 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:30.720 California Valley News. Three little newspapers that had a worldwide reputation for being 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:34.000 independent out of thousands of papers in the US. 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.360 >> Francis says, whether they liked it or not, whether they knew it or not, 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:42.800 there were few writers, poets, artists, historians, scientists, or critics in post-war Europe whose 00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:46.480 names were not in some way linked to this covert enterprise. And she was referring to 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:48.800 Congress for Cultural Freedom. 00:14:48.800 --> 00:14:49.600 >> Yeah. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:54.240 >> So, like, even if you didn't know you were part of this cabal, you were actually 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.360 part of it, basically? 00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:03.520 >> Yeah, the pressures, like if all of the newspapers and radio stations and foundations 00:15:03.520 --> 00:15:11.360 in the US said it was criminal to think otherwise, if you had other opinions, you were just quiet 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.080 because everyone around you seemed crazy. 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.400 >> Did you just keep your thoughts to yourself at that time? 00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:25.280 >> No. No, I was in the seventh grade in a social studies class. I had done things like 00:15:25.280 --> 00:15:32.000 the seventh grade boys were supposed to spend their recess time cleaning the grounds, 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:40.720 picking up papers and such. And I put up posters showing a reclining gopher and organized the 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:49.760 loafer gophers instead of the eager beavers, which they called us, and got scolded for that. 00:15:49.760 --> 00:15:58.400 And then in the social studies class, a kid who, he was just kind of a goofy, nice kid, 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:09.840 asked Mrs. White, the teacher, "Are they going to kill Raymond Peat for being a communist, 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:15.520 if that's the policy?" And she said, "I don't think so. He's a nice little boy." 00:16:15.520 --> 00:16:18.560 [Laughter] 00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:28.480 >> Oh my God. Okay, so Eisenhower, is he following the same line of being put in the presidency 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.320 like Truman, or is he like the real deal? 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:41.040 >> Basically, he was very stupid. But yeah, he was just following the ruling class, 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:41.920 whatever they said. 00:16:41.920 --> 00:16:47.440 >> And Allen Dulles was CIA director in 1953 under Eisenhower. 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:55.200 >> Yeah. And Eisenhower came out by witness many years later that he had specifically given orders 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.880 to kill Patrice Lumumba. 00:16:56.880 --> 00:16:59.440 >> I was going to ask you about that. Sorry, go ahead. 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:07.200 >> And at the time, I was considering both Eisenhower and Kennedy, who had been elected by 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:14.240 that time, as having been involved, Kennedy should have been, as President-elect, he should have been 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.800 aware of what was happening because I was just reading the newspapers, following everything day 00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:32.640 by day. And I started right out being very negative towards Kennedy. And so just a few months, I 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:39.440 think two or three months later was when Dog Hommerschuld was killed in a plane crash. I figured 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:47.200 that Kennedy must have been responsible because it was right in his administration, under his 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:56.160 direct authority, that the CIA was there in charge of things. And Dog Hommerschuld had been 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:03.200 facilitating the imperialists in the Congo, the Belgian, British and American agents were there. 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:10.000 And pretty much Hommerschuld was just doing what they wanted. But after Patrice Lumumba was killed, 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:16.800 Hommerschuld suddenly started being even-handed. And he was going to arrange peace discussions 00:18:16.800 --> 00:18:22.480 between the two sides. And that was when he got killed. And so it was obviously an assassination. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:28.080 - I want to get to Dog Hommerschuld and also George Day Morenschild. Do you want to set up 00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:34.080 just your thoughts on the antagonism between JFK and Dulles? Like, I'm confused how somebody like 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:39.520 that even got into office, if I guess they hated him so much. So like, the idea that everything is 00:18:39.520 --> 00:18:42.400 totally pre-selected is false. There's some - 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:52.880 - Well, Kennedy's point was to go after Eisenhower and Nixon for being weak on communism. And he said 00:18:52.880 --> 00:19:00.960 he would lead a great military buildup, which he did. And so he was the militarist's candidate. 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.120 He said that Eisenhower had let him in on the fact that they were going to invade Cuba. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:15.440 And part of his militarism was saying, "Eisenhower has let Castro get away with 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:22.960 everything. We'll go after Castro." And so he was the right-wing extremist in that election. 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:28.400 And that really annoyed Nixon because Nixon had told him what they were going to do, 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:32.480 and Nixon couldn't say, "Wait, we're already planning that." 00:19:34.560 --> 00:19:40.800 So Kennedy was basically a rat for bad reasons. 00:19:40.800 --> 00:19:47.280 - Okay, so that conflicts with, I guess, just my - it always sounds like, at least from David Talbot 00:19:47.280 --> 00:19:52.000 and some of the other things, like that JFK was like anti-war, or that he was like a reasonable 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.040 kind of person, but I really have no idea. 00:19:55.040 --> 00:20:01.360 - Another thing that annoyed me, he might really have been upset over the Hommershuld killing 00:20:01.360 --> 00:20:08.320 because of what Hommershuld had in mind for Indonesia, which was to make Sukarno a puppet 00:20:08.320 --> 00:20:18.400 of US rather than leaving it with Netherlands. Or Kennedy had his way of controlling Indonesia 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:26.160 without the formality of colonialism. But despite whatever relative good he saw for Indonesia, 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:34.720 he was still thinking imperialism and twice he talked to his ambassador to Brazil asking if it 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:43.120 was basically time to do a coup yet against Joao Goulart, and the ambassador said when the time 00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:46.880 was opportune, but there was nothing urgent right then. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:53.120 - Paul Greene describes some plot where they discovered some mineral that they wanted and then 00:20:53.760 --> 00:21:00.000 Dulles was friends with George Morinshult, and do you want to help me out here? 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:07.760 - Yeah, neither Kennedy nor Hommershuld nor just about anyone in the world knew about 00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:16.000 neither the high-quality oil or the gold and what was the other, golden copper, I guess, 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:24.160 were the two huge deposits in Indonesia. The Dulles, Morinshult people had been secretive 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:30.720 about that, so none of the authorities knew about it because they wanted to get the Dutch out before 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:37.680 they let it become public. The Dutch companies would have taken over, but the Rockefeller people 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:43.440 bought up the properties and I think they still own it through a Phoenix-based company. 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:48.560 - Okay, so under the guise of anti-communism, the CIA overthrows the democratically elected 00:21:48.560 --> 00:21:54.000 Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.200 using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue for nothing more than declaring 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:06.560 his neutrality in the Cold War, and according to Paul Greene or an article that was about his book, 00:22:06.560 --> 00:22:13.280 he said that Sukarno not siding with Dulles enraged him. And if you weren't against, like 00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:16.880 the Bush thing, like if you're not with us, you're against us kind of deal. 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:24.480 - Yeah, that was all it was with Joao Goulart in Brazil. Kennedy said that he's looking 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:30.480 slightly neutral. We'll have to get rid of him right away or later. 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:37.360 - But when I read the list of atrocities through the CIA, it seemed just like bonkers, 00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:45.440 like that somebody is going to all these different areas, putting in their person, and it seemed - 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:50.400 - They had the morality of Adolf Hitler with more brains. 00:22:50.400 --> 00:23:00.000 - But I guess, do you see Dulles as the person driving all of these different things? Because 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:05.040 it seems like it would take somebody like pretty, I don't know, it just seems so, I mean, 00:23:05.040 --> 00:23:09.520 from an outsider looking in, it seems so complex how to manage all of these different 00:23:09.520 --> 00:23:11.360 like regime changes basically. 00:23:11.360 --> 00:23:22.080 - I think you have to visualize the ruling class and how it works. It has these upper levels of 00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:30.320 academics and political lawyers for the big corporations are basically working like secretaries 00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:39.040 of state and intelligence agency heads and such. So there's a whole crop of these very well-informed 00:23:39.040 --> 00:23:48.640 people at the heart of both economic and political affairs. And so they're like a worldwide sort of 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:56.480 course mesh, only a few hundred people on that level sitting on top of thousands of corporations, 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:04.480 maybe 3 million or so ruling class people in America and Europe. They already have the power, 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:12.960 and so the state power is fairly trivial compared to how we think of it. They see the state officials 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:17.280 as inconveniences, but not too hard to get rid of. 00:24:17.280 --> 00:24:24.160 - Two things. So one, the creation of the CIA gave this, would you use the word oligarchy, 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:31.360 right? So oligarchy gave like a tool basically through the CIA to do whatever they wanted to do. 00:24:31.360 --> 00:24:32.720 - Yeah, yep. 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:38.880 - And then to put yourself in this type of behavioral pattern, do you see it, 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:44.560 and you mentioned this in your newsletter, like the Neo-Darwinian marriage with Malthusianism, 00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:48.960 do you see that as like a type of elite or like power elite religion for them 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.480 kind of to justify a lot of their crazy actions? 00:24:52.480 --> 00:25:01.040 - Yeah, the science world is very similar to the finance politics world and has its 00:25:01.040 --> 00:25:09.040 intersections, not very many, but a few of the top science people are closely connected 00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:18.000 to the political power, but it's all the same recognition of power and where they're going 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.720 and who they want to control for what purposes. 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:25.360 - And then, okay, so we're talking about the Indonesian mass genocide which happened in 1965 00:25:25.360 --> 00:25:32.400 and 1966. Do you want to talk about the interesting connection between Obama and his mom, 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:37.280 Ann Dunham, and Lolo and his stepdad, Lolo Sotoro? Am I saying that right? 00:25:37.280 --> 00:25:42.400 - Well, what's his name, this reporter who did the- 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.680 - Oh, May, let me get his name. 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:46.480 - Madsen. 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:47.760 - Madsen, yeah, yeah. 00:25:47.760 --> 00:25:56.480 - I think his picture is basically right, that his grandmother was probably connected with the CIA 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:05.040 as sort of a paymaster for people in the Pacific, and I don't know exactly, but a friend of mine 00:26:05.040 --> 00:26:15.600 was sort of a tool of the Nguyen Hand Bank, which was the CIA funnel from drug weapons money 00:26:15.600 --> 00:26:25.440 in Vietnam and Iran-Contra through the '60s and '70s, that opium and weapons money was handled 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:33.200 through the Australian and Hawaii, so I assume there's been some interaction between the bank 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:40.480 that Grandma Obama, what was her name, his maternal grandmothers- 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:42.000 - I have it here somewhere. 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:50.000 - Anyway, the fact is that his mother was doing- 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.680 - Madeline and Stanley Dunham, sorry. 00:26:53.680 --> 00:27:01.040 - Dunham, yeah. She was, I think, a vice president of the bank that was handling CIA money, 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:10.800 but his mother was in that anthropology study, pretty much the anthropology profession 00:27:10.800 --> 00:27:20.720 was serving the CIA, mapping out people to either exterminate or control, basically finding out 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:29.440 how they talk, like in Mexico and Latin America, it was the Summer Linguistics Institute, which 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:37.040 codified the native languages and gave them written materials so they could be controlled 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:45.440 better, learning how to give them instructions, essentially, and anthropology and religious 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:55.360 missionaries were tied into the CIA to gather information on the populations, and in Indonesia, 00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:02.000 it happened that the anthropology people were helping make surveys of basically who was to 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:09.280 be exterminated by the new government to make sure that they didn't go neutral or favor China. 00:28:09.280 --> 00:28:15.600 - Backing up a little bit, you mentioned opium, and how much of that is involved in the power 00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:21.680 elite, just like, I guess, funding things? I read a book on, or not, I didn't read, I perused a book 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:28.240 on Skull and Bones, and they were saying that that whole thing is very tied to the sale of opium, 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:33.360 and then I didn't read enough before talking to you, but I had read similar things about the CIA, 00:28:33.360 --> 00:28:36.800 just drugs being very intertwined with everything, basically. 00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:45.360 - Yeah, I think it's, they use whatever has force. The religious missionaries are one way of doing 00:28:45.360 --> 00:28:49.920 it, drugs are another, and just force is another. 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:55.680 - Okay, so we talked about the Indonesian mass genocide, which, anybody listening, 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.520 The Act of Killing and the Look of Silence by Joshua Oppenheimer, right, have you seen those 00:28:59.520 --> 00:28:59.760 films? 00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:00.640 - No, no. 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:07.600 - They're really good. And then in 1966, something that might be interesting, the Ramparts affair, 00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:15.920 like the medical magazine began untangling the nefarious acts of the CIA. 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:24.400 - Some people are saying that the CIA was subsidizing them and promoting them to do 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:34.000 a partial limited hangout. The facts are so much worse that they want to make it seem that 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:39.840 everything has come out, and make people stop looking at the connections. When you start 00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:46.080 putting things together, like even the conservative senators, Heinz and Tower, 00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:52.240 having that connection to George Bush and information, it was inconvenient. 00:29:52.240 --> 00:30:01.520 And then that ties into John Kerry and his investigation of that bunch of episodes, 00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:11.360 and why he didn't pursue it. And it shows interconnectedness in government that, 00:30:11.360 --> 00:30:19.200 on the surface, it would seem really crazy to connect extreme right-wing senators to extreme 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:23.760 left-wing organizations like the Christik Institute. But when you start weaving the 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:30.720 strings together, you get a thousand parts that fit snugly together, and it starts looking 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:36.800 somewhat crazy to say, "No, they can't fit together. That's only a coincidence." You get 00:30:36.800 --> 00:30:44.000 thousands of coincidences snugly organized, and you have to look for a more reasonable explanation. 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.960 The official explanation starts sounding crazy. 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.840 - What year was it when Bush and Kerry ran against each other, 00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:54.880 and they're both Skull & Bones members? What a coincidence. 00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:56.320 - Yeah. 00:30:56.320 --> 00:31:03.920 - Okay. I was interested in a big new Brzezinski, David Rockefeller, and the Trilateral Commission. 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:10.960 - Brzezinski was controlling Carter, basically. Rockefeller was controlling Brzezinski and 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:20.000 Brzezinski-Carter. And Brzezinski cooked up the thing of getting Saudi Arabia to start 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:32.240 sending people into Afghanistan with U.S. weapons. The Soviets had set up a secular government in 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:42.000 Afghanistan with education for women and an actual secular government. Every time a secular government 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:53.840 is created in the Muslim world, it's as bad as being neutral. And Brzezinski was one example of 00:31:53.840 --> 00:32:03.120 that, the overthrow of Mossadegh in Turkey. That was their first big anti-secular case. But then 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:12.240 the most fanatic anti-secularism came when the Soviets had set up a non-religious government 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:19.600 with basically democratic practices as a way of keeping the U.S. from expanding, hopefully. 00:32:19.600 --> 00:32:27.600 You know, the Cuban Missile Crisis had the outcome of the U.S. agreeing to take their 00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:34.720 rockets out of Turkey, and the Soviets hoped to get another buffer state without rockets in 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:45.120 Afghanistan. And to prevent that, Brzezinski got the fanatics armed with the best weapons to fight 00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:52.880 the Afghan democracy and then the Soviets who supported it. And that went on until Carter was 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:59.120 out of office and eventually the fanatics won under extreme support from the U.S. 00:32:59.120 --> 00:32:59.360 19:50 00:32:59.360 --> 00:33:02.960 I think it's floating around the internet, but there are articles showing what Afghanistan 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:10.000 looked like in the 1970s. And to me, I have a poor history background, but it's like unbelievable. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:16.240 And it just looks like a 1970s modern people walking around. And then they do like comparative 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.840 shots to today and it's just like rubble. And also - 00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:19.840 19:59 00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:24.480 - And the religious extremism was all created by Brzezinski. 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:30.880 - Yeah. And there's like a video of Brzezinski like arming the Mujahideen and just saying some 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:37.920 of the craziest stuff. Like, "It's your land over there. Like, go fight." And it's just very 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:45.120 manipulative and weird. And it's bizarre. - Yeah. And they brought the same sort of people 00:33:45.120 --> 00:33:49.280 into Serbia and took over Kosovo. - Unbelievable. Okay. So, 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:56.240 it's interesting to me that Brzezinski was so tied to Obama. He was in Obama's inner circle. 00:33:56.240 --> 00:34:03.360 Obama talked very highly of him. People that I follow were saying like the hope and change 00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:09.520 candidate was preposterous given who was in Obama's inner circle. But I guess that message 00:34:09.520 --> 00:34:14.720 didn't really get out to that many people. - Yeah. It's the same sort of thing as Hillary 00:34:14.720 --> 00:34:23.760 Clinton praising Henry Kissinger. It really revealed who she really is. And you've heard 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:31.440 about her newest book in which she explains George Orwell's, the real meaning of 1984. 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.840 - I didn't catch that part. No. - She says, "It means we should trust 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:45.760 our leaders, experts, and the press more." - That reminds me of Mayor Giuliani when he says, 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.400 "Real freedom is about obeying authority," or something similar to that. 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:58.560 - Yeah, exactly. The meaning of 1984. - Unbelievable. So, maybe this is a good 00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:04.320 time to start with the beginning question. What's your... Like, having been through so much, 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:11.600 do you see your sense of how things are? Is this like incomprehensible or like what's happening 00:35:11.600 --> 00:35:18.560 right now? Or is it a logical continuation of things you've been seeing in the works for many 00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:23.520 years now? That's I guess my question. - The only pleasant thing about it is that 00:35:23.520 --> 00:35:30.960 so many other people are starting to see the loose ends where before if you had, for example, 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:38.080 an economic theory of why wars were fought, you were either ignorant or crazy or criminal 00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:44.160 or a subversive. But the atmosphere has really changed so that there are lots of people 00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:49.520 questioning things now that unlike 50 or 60 years ago. - One thing I did think was interesting to 00:35:49.520 --> 00:35:54.160 your point was I feel like if you talked about the deep state, you would be labeled as a crazy 00:35:54.160 --> 00:36:01.600 person. And the fact that it is being talked about openly on just regular news is pretty weird, no? 00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:09.280 - Yeah. People always prefer surfaces, but now the surface is being slightly redefined. 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:17.760 But before you could see the surface that the state said it was, it wasn't true that the state 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:25.040 was really rotten all the way down. And now they analyze it and say, here's the surface and there's 00:36:25.040 --> 00:36:33.520 a deep state. But it's always been just one rotten state. And now people are starting to 00:36:33.520 --> 00:36:40.640 break it down into its parts and seeing the illusion, how it's maintained, how consent 00:36:40.640 --> 00:36:46.000 is manufactured. - Like some of the things you said taken maybe out of context could be probably 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:51.520 fuel for a libertarian anti-government view, but do you see just the creation of the CIA 00:36:51.520 --> 00:36:56.720 as becoming a total nightmare as being just the real issue and not necessarily the government per 00:36:56.720 --> 00:37:04.800 se? - No. Like when the people first started separating the CIA from the government was when 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:11.840 Eisenhower had scheduled peace talks with Khrushchev in Europe and everyone was expecting 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:18.560 big things of that. And then with Lee Harvey Oswald, a U-2 expert in place in Russia, 00:37:18.560 --> 00:37:27.120 Dulles sent a U-2 plane over Russia, knowing that they had the expert who knew exactly the recipe 00:37:27.120 --> 00:37:34.720 for shooting it down, overcoming their radar defenses. And during the few days before the 00:37:34.720 --> 00:37:42.400 peace talk to send this U-2 biplane over to be shot down, knew that it would sabotage the talks. 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:53.040 Eisenhower knew who Dulles was and still let it shoot down the peace talks. And Eisenhower 00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:59.680 was stupid, but he was also the one who kept Dulles in place and knew how things worked. 00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:07.920 So you could say that there were different factions working, but they weren't really 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:11.600 separate. They were just slightly inconvenient to each other. 00:38:11.600 --> 00:38:17.040 - We glossed over that a little bit, but I did watch a video by a woman named Lisa Pease, 00:38:17.040 --> 00:38:24.240 who seemed pretty intelligent. And she was echoed what you just said, saying that Oswald was 00:38:24.240 --> 00:38:31.520 incredibly good at radar and locating those U-2. That was the plan? 00:38:31.520 --> 00:38:36.960 - Yeah, that was what he was trained for, as well as speaking Russian in Japan. 00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:43.360 - But she was spinning the narrative that it was like the official story of the JFK 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:50.000 assassination just is like completely illogical and doesn't make any sense. And given all of 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.360 Oswald's alleged CIA ties. - Oh, yeah. 00:38:53.760 --> 00:39:02.400 The information that has come out, it's a complete fine-grained picture of what was going on in the 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:10.000 assassination. All of the context fits in who was murdered, what the official story, 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:16.800 how it was composed, what the function of the Warren Commission was. There's not really any 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.960 mystery anymore. - In David Talbott's book, 00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:21.760 "The Devil's Chessboard" is a pretty good summation of that. 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.040 - I haven't read that. - Oh, my fault. I thought you had. 00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:28.560 What is your general thought on Trump? Do you see him as part of this 00:39:28.560 --> 00:39:35.600 oligarchical cabal, or do you see him as like a free agent, or what are your general thoughts on 00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:39.440 him? - Yeah, I think he's a free agent with 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:49.040 some good instincts, but also an instinct of preservation, self-interest, and his thing about 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:56.960 not wanting nuclear war, I think is his basic good impulse, but what can you do with just being 00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:00.240 president? - Some people were, like when the election 00:40:00.240 --> 00:40:05.200 was happening, when he was meeting with Kissinger, were just like, "Oh, this guy is no good," 00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:10.880 basically, because he was aligning himself with those people. Did you think of anything of that? 00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:19.360 - No, I think he's insincere about most of what he does. But his two or three 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:27.840 decent policies, he seemed, over the years, to come up with some insights, like about 20 years 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:36.480 ago when he suggested having a one-time wealth tax. He said it would cost him, I forget what, 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:42.080 $200 million or something, but he said it would pay off the national debt, and then we'd be 00:40:42.080 --> 00:40:46.560 almost tax-free from then on. - Interesting. Has he talked about that 00:40:46.560 --> 00:40:48.800 recently, or that was just an older thing in one of his books? 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:52.000 - No, I haven't heard any recent discussion of that. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:58.720 - Okay, right. I think I've exhausted my notes. Oh, the one thing I did want to talk about that I 00:40:58.720 --> 00:41:03.920 thought was really interesting was Truman saying that the whole creation of the CIA was a mistake 00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:10.880 to his autobiographist, that's a word, Mary Miller in 1973. 00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:14.560 - Mm-hmm. - [Laughter] 00:41:14.560 --> 00:41:18.240 - Recognizing any of its evil, how could he say otherwise? 00:41:18.240 --> 00:41:25.120 - Yeah, right. Well, he went on and he said, "What I can tell," I don't have the quote in 00:41:25.120 --> 00:41:29.200 front of me, but he's saying that the CIA makes their own wars, which we've been basically talking 00:41:29.200 --> 00:41:36.320 about for an hour. And also, I think he has a quote saying that they killed Dag Hammarskjöld. 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.920 - Yeah, yep. - Yeah, Dag Hammarskjöld was the point of 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:44.160 getting something done when they killed him. Notice that I said, "When they killed him," 00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:50.400 Truman said that, which is nuts. - Yeah. The testimony, a witness to the 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:57.600 cabinet meeting where Eisenhower told them to do it, it didn't come out for 50 years after that, 00:41:57.600 --> 00:42:04.880 but everyone knew it at the time. I suppose Truman had much better information than the public. 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:10.720 - And just because I'm looking at it right now, do you have any thoughts on Lyman, the 00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:16.400 nutty actions of Lyman Levincer, who wrote Operation Northwoods? And I think he was the 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:19.760 architect of Operation Gladio. - What about him? 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:26.000 - I mean, reading through Operation Northwoods is sobering on how crazy things can get. 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:33.040 - Yeah, but I think that's partly the fault of people who keep records. Usually the most 00:42:33.040 --> 00:42:39.280 disgusting things they do in conversation and don't do stupid things like keeping records. 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:43.680 - Do you think that was a mistake that they let out? I think that was, like, 00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:52.480 declassified under Clinton or somebody? - Yeah. But even the act of keeping records, 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:55.600 I'm sure they don't do it with the really vile stuff. 00:42:55.600 --> 00:43:01.520 - When I was reading through all this stuff, I was like, "This is like 1% of what's happening," 00:43:01.520 --> 00:43:05.120 and I couldn't fathom what else was going on, basically. 00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:13.760 - Yeah, and in that situation, people are free to imagine and their imagination can seldom, 00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:18.960 you know, catch up to what's really happening right now. 00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:27.280 - To end on a positive note, I mean, obviously you embody a type of resistance to what's happening 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:34.320 by giving people good information and trying to let people navigate their own lives. Do you see, 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:39.040 is this, are things so bad that you don't see them getting better for a long time, 00:43:39.040 --> 00:43:43.680 or do you see some hope? I mean, you were mentioning that people were kind of waking up 00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:49.360 individually. - Yeah, and if you just get a lot of people 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:56.560 with some very simple insights, like abuse of power is going to be the rule, so there should 00:43:56.560 --> 00:44:06.160 never be power exercised in private or in secret. Just insist on complete openness, 00:44:06.160 --> 00:44:14.880 and people will just sort of automatically start moving in the right direction, which they won't 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:22.560 necessarily know until they get a lot of that openness into the culture so that people can 00:44:22.560 --> 00:44:29.120 see where they are, then they can start talking about where they want to go. With the control 00:44:29.120 --> 00:44:36.880 systems through the media and the schools and the legal system, everything is going to have to 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:43.920 happen outside of all of those channels, and it would have to consist just in some basic insights 00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:48.000 and suspicions of power. - To your point, James Engleton, 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:53.760 CIA counterintelligence head, said in his testimony to the church committee, "It is 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:58.480 inconceivable that a secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply with all the 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:05.840 overt orders of the government." That's it for me, Ray. Did you have anything else we 00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:10.560 glossed over that you thought was important? - Oh, probably. Nothing occurs to me. 00:45:10.560 --> 00:45:16.080 - Ray, what are you working on right now? - Oh, I'm an article on milk, 00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:24.000 putting milk in cultural context. Milk as a sort of a focus of doing what we're doing here, 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:31.440 looking at the false assumptions and thinking about how to start rethinking things from a 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:34.480 new point. - Awesome. I cannot wait to read it. Ray, 00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:39.120 you've been so generous with your time. I sincerely appreciate it. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 00:45:39.120 --> 00:45:45.200 Thank you. I'll talk to you soon. - Okay. Fun to talk to you. Thank you. 00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:46.960 - Okay. Bye, Ray. - Bye. 00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:59.440 - That's going to conclude this week's episode. I'd like to thank Ray again for talking with me 00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:03.600 today, along with my patrons for their support of the show and all of the content I produce, 00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:08.080 none of which would be possible without my patrons. So from the bottom of my heart, 00:46:08.080 --> 00:46:14.560 I sincerely appreciate it. This episode was really fun for me. Sometimes I say I know enough about 00:46:14.560 --> 00:46:20.000 nutrition to know that I don't know anything, and I can't even say that about politics. So it was 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.800 definitely a learning experience talking with Ray, who is obviously a wealth of information. 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:30.560 Again, it was awesome talking with him, and I'd like to thank him again for just giving me an hour 00:46:30.560 --> 00:46:37.280 of his time and writing a great set of newsletters. And this episode, if you don't know, is based on 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:47.120 his newsletter. And so you can get his newsletter now by sending, I think, $28 to rayPeatsnewsletter@gmail.com. 00:46:47.120 --> 00:46:56.560 And I think it's $28 for six issues each year. So 12 total over two years. And so, yeah, it's the 00:46:56.560 --> 00:47:01.200 best deal on the internet, and you should definitely do that. If you liked this episode and you're 00:47:01.200 --> 00:47:05.680 listening on YouTube, definitely hit that like button or leave a comment, and I'll try to reply 00:47:05.680 --> 00:47:12.080 to all of them. Thank you guys so much. This was a real fun episode, and I'm glad I got to do it. 00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:18.320 I know the content hasn't been as flowing as it usually is. A lot of people know I'm writing a 00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:23.040 book right now. But again, I sincerely appreciate you guys listening. It's always fun to do these 00:47:23.040 --> 00:47:26.000 things, and I'll talk to you guys very soon. Take care. 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.580 (upbeat music) 00:47:28.580 --> 00:47:31.160 (upbeat music) 00:47:31.160 --> 00:47:33.740 (upbeat music) 00:47:33.740 --> 00:47:36.320 (upbeat music) 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.900 (upbeat music) 00:47:38.900 --> 00:47:41.480 (upbeat music) 00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:44.060 (upbeat music) 00:47:44.060 --> 00:47:54.060 [BLANK_AUDIO]