WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.000 People say less is more. At Red Barn, we think less is better. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:08.000 It's what you won't find that sets our natural premium pet food apart. 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.000 No byproducts, no corn or soy, no fillers. 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:16.000 Just the natural ingredients your pets need to live the healthy life they deserve. 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.000 Look at the label. We want you to. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.000 Red Barn Naturals Pet Food. Simply the best. 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.000 Find it in your local pet specialty store. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.000 Buy our chicken rolled food as a meal or shred it as a topper. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:41.000 You're listening to Holistic Living, brought to you by EastWest Healing and Performance. 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:45.000 And now, here are your hosts, Josh and Jeanne Rubin. 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:56.000 Hey everyone, this is Josh Rubin from EastWest Healing and Performance. 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:59.000 Welcome to our blog talk radio show today. 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.000 Today we're going to have Ray Peat on again. I'll do his little introduction in a little bit. 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:09.000 Once we get him on here, and like always, we're probably going to have a little bit of an issue getting him on, so just hold tight. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:13.000 We do our radio show every month, once a month. 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:17.000 If you want to learn more about us, check out our YouTube blog, Facebook page. 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:20.000 Go to our website at eastwesthealing.com. 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:24.000 We've got a lot of great information on there. It's free. People love free information. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.000 I can be honest with you, it's only going to be up there for a certain amount of time. 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:32.000 Check it out. Feel free to call us any time for a free consultation. 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.000 760-597-9727. 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.000 We always want to put that out there. 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.000 Once again, we've got Ray Peat on our show. 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.000 Of course, you know we've been following him for some time. 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:46.000 We've been really lucky enough to get him on our show. 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:54.000 You can learn more about Ray on his website. It's raypeat.com. 00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:00.000 He's got tons of great articles that would probably keep you occupied for the next 100 years, 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:05.000 as well as a lot of great books that you can order. 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.000 You can send in a check, and he'll ship those to you. 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.000 His books are just fabulous, to be honest with you. 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:15.000 He's got a newsletter that you can sign up for that comes out every quarter, as well as he's an artist. 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:17.000 This guy's got a lot going on. 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:22.000 He's got a PhD in biology from the University of Oregon, and he specializes in physiology. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.000 You can pretty much get that from reading his articles. 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:30.000 If you want to start reading his stuff, my recommendation is read an article, reread it, 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:36.000 but move on because you can start to connect the dots in all his articles. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.000 Sorry about this, guys. Once again, we're having a little bit of an issue getting him on here. 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.000 What's the problem? 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.000 His phone number. 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.000 Hold on a second, guys. I'm sorry about this once again. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:53.000 We are running into technical difficulties. 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:58.000 He has taught at many schools, including the University of Oregon, Urbana College, Montana State. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.000 You can look at his website. 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:05.000 He's taught at other schools that, unfortunately, I can't pronounce that are in Mexico and things like that. 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:10.000 He started most of his work studying progesterone and hormones back in 1968. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:16.000 He's got a lot of different papers and dissertations on that that he published in 1972. 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:23.000 Since then, he's been working on practical and theoretical aspects on his view with hormones and the thyroid and things like that. 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:26.000 You know, and the bottom line is the guy is just a genius. 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:28.000 He's got a lot of stuff out there. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:35.000 He's got a lot of stuff that, unfortunately, I would say most people will poo-poo and say that it's a bunch of baloney, 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:42.000 but I can tell you that from reading his stuff, doing this for the past 12 years, that, honestly, his stuff is cutting edge. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:47.000 He's probably 80 years ahead of his time, if not more. 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.000 So if you really want to be progressive and you're a practitioner, read his stuff. 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:58.000 You can work with people like myself and other people that have studied his stuff for years, or you can call him and email him. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:59.000 Maybe do consult with him. 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:04.000 I don't know how he works that, but you can definitely ask him some questions today on the radio show. 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.000 So enough of me rambling, because that's pretty much what I'm doing. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.000 Let's get them on the show and let's get the show started. 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:12.000 We're going to be talking about the thyroid today. 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:19.000 Probably will not take callers, because if you listen to the show, you can probably come to the conclusion that when I take a caller 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.000 and the caller is not there, it kind of aggravates me. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:26.000 I find it superficient, and unfortunately, I find it a little disrespectful for us. 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.000 So I'm not going to take callers. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:37.000 If there is time permitting at the end, I will, but unfortunately, if you're calling from the 858, I will not take your call. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.000 So enough about that. 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:41.000 So let's get them on the show. 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:45.000 Hey, Ray and Jeannie, are you there? 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.000 Oh, they're not there. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.000 Hold on a second. 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.000 >> Yeah, we are. 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:49.000 Hey, Josh. 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.000 >> Oh, hey, Jeannie. 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:55.000 Hey, Ray, are you on? 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:57.000 >> Yeah, I'm here. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.000 >> Oh, there he is. 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:00.000 How's it going, Ray? 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.000 >> Good. 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.000 >> Good. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:11.000 So I just did your gigantic introduction once again, so people got to know who you are and where you've been, you know, 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:16.000 where you've come from and what you have to offer, because we feel you have a lot to offer, 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.000 and that's why we want to do the show to, you know, get your stuff out there. 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:30.000 So once again, we really appreciate you taking time out to come on our show and really educate people on your science, 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.000 because that's what it really is and how the body works. 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:39.000 So today we're going to be talking about the thyroid, and I know we could talk for probably days on that, 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.000 but we want to kind of simplify it for the public. 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:50.000 So me and Jeannie got a list of, you know, outline probably 12 questions/topics that we want to go into 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.000 and then some questions from our audience. 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:59.000 So I guess -- do you want to add anything before we start, before we get going on the show? 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.000 >> No. 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.000 >> Okay. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.000 We're ready to rock. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:09.000 You know, in a lot of your articles in your science, you get a lot on the thyroid. 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:17.000 So maybe you could enlighten us on why you study the thyroid so much 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:24.000 and why you feel the thyroid hormone is so important or the most important hormone in the body. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.000 >> Okay. 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:41.000 So looking at life in general, plants and funguses and amoebas are the organisms that apparently don't need 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:44.000 or don't want thyroid. 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:58.000 But as soon as you get what we think of as real animal life, that includes corals, cylinderets, echinoderms, 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:15.000 mollusks, crustaceans, insects, just about everything that has an organization to it uses thyroid. 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:24.000 And the basic function of thyroid is to energize cells and to give them enough energy 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:34.000 and sufficient energy and sufficiency to allow them to differentiate so that they don't just concentrate on eating 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:43.000 and growing the way plants and amoebas and fungi and such do. 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:53.000 And some of the old experiments would -- in an aquarium with developing frog eggs, 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:02.000 as soon as the eggs would hatch into tadpoles, they would either add an antithyroid chemical 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:07.000 or a little bit of thyroid hormone to the water. 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:15.000 And if you added the antithyroid chemical, the tadpole would never turn into a frog. 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:20.000 It would just get it to be a huge tadpole. 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:35.000 But if you added thyroid to the aquarium, the tiny hatchling tadpole would turn into a tiny spider-like frog 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:46.000 just about the size of a fly, showing that the thyroid, which energizes the cells so that they use oxygen 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:55.000 and produce a huge amount of energy, this energy allows the cells to realize their function. 00:08:55.000 --> 00:09:01.000 But when it comes on too early, they neglect to grow. 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:15.000 So without thyroid, all you have is growth, and that's fine for amoebas and mushrooms and trees and so on. 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:25.000 But in humans, it can lead to things like tumors and malformations and so on. 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:38.000 So the energy production is really the basis of all organized life, and that makes the thyroid, in a sense, 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:43.000 the main gland. 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:52.000 Really, if you take out the pituitary gland, which people have talked about as the master gland, 00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:00.000 many different animals, if you remove that and give them thyroid hormone, in some cases, 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:07.000 the animals live 10 times as long as normal, usually about twice as long as normal, 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:17.000 for the lack of the pituitary gland, as long as they had adequate thyroid. 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:22.000 So you're saying what most people say is that thyroid is your master regulator of metabolism. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:31.000 It's the thing that's going to keep your body in an efficient state or an anti-inflammatory state 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:37.000 where you're producing energy more efficiently than you're expending energy. 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:48.000 Right. The inflammatory state means that something has gone wrong. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:59.000 It's interesting that doctors very often go entirely on the basis of the amount of pituitary thyroid-stimulating hormone 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:12.000 in diagnosing your thyroid status, but the thyroid-stimulating hormone creates all sorts of inflammatory processes, 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:20.000 and when you have enough actual thyroid hormone to completely shut down your pituitary, 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:26.000 you turn off practically all of these toxic inflammatory processes. 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:32.000 Right. It's interesting because, at least from our standpoint, 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:39.000 there's so many people that are coming to see us in our clinic, and I would say even from teaching all over, 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:43.000 that we're seeing all these people that are being diagnosed with hypothyroid. 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:47.000 What's your take on all these labs that people are doing? 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:54.000 A, what's the validity of these, and what do you recommend when it comes to measuring thyroid function in itself? 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:08.000 In the 1930s, it was standard medical practice to have a little apparatus to allow the person to lie down, 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:14.000 usually with an empty stomach, and to breathe oxygen for two minutes, 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:18.000 and they would measure how much oxygen was used. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:33.000 And people who had the standard symptoms of low thyroid function would often consume only half the normal amount of oxygen in allotted time, 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:43.000 and that usually went with their hands and feet being cold, and their core body temperature being below normal, 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:49.000 and their heart rate being somewhat slower than normal. 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:56.000 And as they looked at the more biochemical indicators, 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:10.000 they saw that cholesterol was almost invariably high in proportion to the reduced consumption of oxygen and lower body temperature. 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:20.000 So the increasing cholesterol was like a mirror image of the decreasing metabolic rate and thyroid function. 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:27.000 And if you would give a thyroid supplement to someone with excess cholesterol, 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:38.000 it would immediately come down exactly in relation to the increasing oxygen use. 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:44.000 Keratin excess was another identifying feature. 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:51.000 The doctor would look at a person's palm of the hand, looking at the calluses. 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:58.000 A hypothyroid person typically would have cold and pale hands, 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:05.000 but usually with orange areas where the skin was thickened in the calluses. 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:17.000 That's because vitamin A is used directly in proportion to your metabolic rate, protein turnover, and thyroid function. 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:27.000 And if your thyroid is low, you barely use your keratin, hardly convert it to vitamin A. 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:37.000 And so the keratin typically would accumulate enough to show up as orange areas where the skin was thick. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:47.000 And in the ovary, it was found that the normal corpus luteum, or yellow body where progesterone is made, 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:58.000 in these women who were hypothyroid, the corpus luteum would be dark red because of accumulated beta-keratin. 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:04.000 And that keratin would block the production of progesterone, 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:12.000 causing amenorrhea in the typical hypothyroid woman. 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:25.000 Another good indicator that was developed in the 1930s was the Achilles reflex relaxation speed. 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:32.000 A person kneels on a chair so their toes hang over loosely, 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:38.000 and you thump the Achilles tendon so that the calf muscle twitches. 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:45.000 Sometimes a low thyroid person won't have really any reflex that you can see, 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.000 but if they do have a reflex so their toe twitches out, 00:15:49.000 --> 00:16:02.000 the hypothyroid person's muscle relaxes so slowly that their foot returns like a door with a pneumatic closer on it, 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:06.000 a little jerky relaxation. 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:12.000 And the electrocardiogram shows the same thing. 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:17.000 The T-wave is called the repolarization wave, 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:24.000 and it's exactly the same thing as in the relaxation of your calf muscle. 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:33.000 In a hypothyroid person, the T-wave is delayed and low, usually flattened out. 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.000 And the same thing happens in all of your body processes. 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:42.000 When your brain is tired, the nerves are slow to relax, 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:54.000 and so your sleep will not be as relaxing and restorative as it would be in a high thyroid state. 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:59.000 So just touching upon that, just for a lot of the people that are listening, 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.000 and maybe you want to clarify this a little bit deeper, 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:06.000 the slow relaxation of the calf muscle can give you an indication of hypothyroid. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:10.000 Is it because of low blood sugar? 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.000 Is it because of increased serotonin or calcium? 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:20.000 If you could explain a little bit, I guess, more surface-y so people can understand that. 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.000 All of those things contribute. 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:32.000 The thyroid allows you to take up oxygen efficiently and oxidize it completely. 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:43.000 And in proportion to the lack of thyroid, when you stimulate a muscle cell or a nerve cell, 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:49.000 it will use its oxygen inefficiently. 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:56.000 It will allow calcium to enter the cell and keep it in an excited state, 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:02.000 and it will tend to produce lactic acid rather than carbon dioxide. 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:11.000 And carbon dioxide produced under the influence of the thyroid is needed to carry the exciting calcium 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:16.000 out of the cells and allow the cell to relax. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:27.000 So all of those things you mentioned are involved in the delayed relaxation. 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:32.000 So just to reiterate to people, or just I guess to summarize so I understand it too, 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:37.000 so you mentioned, you know, it's almost like everyone says, "You have thyroid problems. 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:38.000 Look at the thyroid." 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:44.000 So you're really saying that high cholesterol is a huge indicator of low thyroid 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:49.000 and that we can actually look at the contraction or the lack of thereof, 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:55.000 relaxation of the calf muscle as another indicator of -- we could say, 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.000 I don't want to say thyroid problem, but maybe slower metabolism 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:03.000 or maybe thyroid issue in a sense. 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.000 Is there any other things you recommend? 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.000 I know you talk a lot about pulse and temperature and things like that, 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:15.000 and I'm sure that's a huge topic, but maybe we can chat a little bit about, you know, 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.000 why you look at body temperature and why you look at pulse. 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:25.000 And, you know, everyone else is focusing on TSH and free T4 and free, you know, free T3 and TPO 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:31.000 and all this stuff, and I don't know if you do or don't, but maybe you want to touch on maybe if you don't and why. 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.000 Okay. 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:41.000 Well, the idea of free and bound hormones, it's purely a laboratory construction. 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:49.000 And in the case of thyroid, it usually has some relation to symptoms, 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:56.000 but it's a little bit analogous to reading tea leaves because the -- 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:04.000 actually, when thyroid hormone is stuck to the albumin protein, 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:11.000 which is the main protein in the blood, it has no trouble at all getting into cells, 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:17.000 taking the thyroid into the mitochondria and the nucleus and so on. 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:33.000 So the free thyroid test does correspond for a variety of indirect reasons to the real available activity of the thyroid, 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:44.000 but it's really just a laboratory construction that should be minimized. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:49.000 So even touching upon TSH, you know, what are your thoughts on TSH even in regards -- 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.000 because I know a lot of the different values out there are very different, you know, 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.000 and they're always changing a little. 00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:00.000 If you could touch upon, you know, if you even would recommend focusing on TSH that much, 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.000 and if you do, what would you say some of the values should be? 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.000 Yeah. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:18.000 I don't recommend it as a way to diagnose hypothyroidism, but I do recommend if you're looking at a blood test, 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:33.000 I would recommend having as close to zero TSH as you can get because all of the known effects of TSH are really harmful in some way. 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:48.000 The main reason doctors are giving currently for not wanting to suppress TSH is they think because TSH reduces the turnover indicators of bone, 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:55.000 that this idea developed as a way to sell estrogen. 00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:07.000 Estrogen was never shown to increase bone growth in humans, but it did stop the osteoclast function, 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:16.000 so it reduced bone turnover, and so they said this is evidence that estrogen is preventing osteoporosis 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:27.000 because it stops the breakdown of bone, and since TSH also stops the osteoclast and the turnover of bone, 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.000 doctors said if we suppress it, that'll cause osteoporosis, but in fact, 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:42.000 the indicators that were used to argue that estrogen was protecting the bones, 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:49.000 they named the protein osteoprotegin, meaning bone-protecting protein, 00:22:49.000 --> 00:23:00.000 and for several years they were using that as a way to sell estrogen and other drugs that would increase it, 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:11.000 but pretty soon it turned out that osteoprotegin is closely associated with bone loss, osteoporosis, 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:23.000 osteopenia, and calcification of the soft tissues, and it turns out that thyrotropin, TSH, like estrogen, 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:33.000 increases osteoprotegin, increases the movement of calcium into your arteries and heart and out of the bones, 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:46.000 so the main argument doctors have for keeping your TSH up to not below one is often what they say, 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:52.000 but their very evidence is the opposite of what they think it is. 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:59.000 So it's interesting because a lot of doctors focus so much on TSH, 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:04.000 and you're saying don't focus on TSH in the diagnosis. 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:13.000 That was developed by the actual biological indicators that were developed in the 1930s. 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:21.000 About 40% of the American population showed low metabolic rate associated with symptoms, 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:29.000 which were cured by giving thyroid enough to bring their metabolic rate up, 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:37.000 but in the late 1940s, the drug companies synthesized thyroxine, 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:43.000 and they tested it on 25-year-old male medical students, 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:51.000 and in these healthy young men, they said it worked just like armor thyroid. 00:24:51.000 --> 00:25:01.000 It worked just like the thyroid hormone, and on the basis of that almost non-existent evidence 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:09.000 that it was equivalent to the thyroid hormone function, they began selling it, 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:16.000 and they were developing tests to diagnose who needed it, 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:24.000 and they didn't have tests to measure very small amounts of the actual hormone, 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.000 so they measured protein-bound iodine, 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:35.000 and it seemed that 95% of the population had enough protein-bound iodine, 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:42.000 and that idea came to be accepted as the normal. 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:49.000 In the 1960s and '70s, the immunoassays were developed 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:54.000 that could actually measure the amount of thyroxine in the blood, 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:00.000 and it turned out that protein-bound iodine didn't have anything to do with thyroid function, 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:07.000 but doctors had learned that 95% of the population were not hypothyroid, 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:14.000 so when they learned to measure thyroid-stimulating hormone, 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:19.000 they applied the measurements to this meaningless doctrine 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.000 that only 5% of the population were hypothyroid, 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:34.000 so it's a good test, but the context and history have made it irrelevant to actual diagnosis. 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:39.000 Now, what about -- and I think from reading your stuff, Mike, 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.000 and I could be wrong and you could have just said it, I'm just hearing it differently -- 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:48.000 there's just too many factors like adrenaline, cortisol, prolactin, estrogen, 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:54.000 all these things that can actually -- that are down-regulating the thyroid, 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.000 that are showing you "your hypothyroid." 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.000 It's not really the thyroid that's the problem; 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:03.000 it's all these other things based on the stress response or toxins or blood sugar 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.000 that are creating the lab result; is that correct? 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:07.000 Yes. 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:14.000 About 10 years ago, I started hearing people telling me that their doctors had diagnosed them 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:21.000 as being both hyperthyroid and hypothyroid at the very same moment. 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.000 More and more people were getting this diagnosis, 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:36.000 which really shows that a crisis of confusion had taken over the profession around 10 years ago, 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:43.000 that people on the basis of their blood tests could be both hyper and hypo at the same time, 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:54.000 and this misleading indicator diagnosis led them to diagnose many people 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:04.000 who were suffering hypothyroidism as hyperthyroid without measuring their oxygen consumption, 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:09.000 their body temperature, or looking at most of their symptoms 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:15.000 and how many calories they were burning in a day, looking at these other indicators, 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:22.000 people who were clearly hypothyroid and who would lose their symptoms if they took a thyroid supplement, 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:30.000 they were being diagnosed as hyperthyroid, having either their thyroid gland removed 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:38.000 or being given radioactive iodine to destroy it on the basis of a complete misunderstanding 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:43.000 of even what constitutes hyperthyroidism. 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.000 Right. 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.000 So I guess based on your approach, the other test, like I kind of mentioned, 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:52.000 is really looking at body temperature. 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.000 So maybe if you could -- because I think for a lot of people, this is probably the -- 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.000 I find it's -- you don't have to pay a lot of money for it. 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.000 It's an easy task for the practitioner to get a baseline of your client, 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:06.000 but it's great for the client or just the average Joe that's listening 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.000 to really start to become aware of what's going on. 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:15.000 So maybe tell us, like, what does a low body temperature mean or low pulse or high pulse? 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:22.000 And why do you use these as, you know, indicators of a baseline of our metabolism? 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:30.000 Broda Barnes, when he was working as a physician in the '30s, he was a Ph.D. researcher 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:38.000 and he identified much of the physiology of hypothyroidism, but then he became a medical doctor 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:49.000 and he practiced most of his life in Colorado where the weather is very cool even in the summer. 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:59.000 And for his patients, the temperature was a very adequate way of diagnosing, 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:10.000 and he describes the temperature -- waking temperature he thought should be maybe around 97.8, 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:18.000 and then after breakfast it should rise to, during the day, somewhere around 98.6. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:33.000 And in Eugene, in hot summer weather, I saw the same people who in the winter would have very low oral temperature. 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:42.000 I saw that in the hot, humid summer weather, these hypothyroid people were maintaining a normal core temperature, 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:53.000 and sometimes their hands would be cold even in hot weather, but I saw that a low metabolizing person, 00:30:53.000 --> 00:31:00.000 given some environmental support, can manage to keep their temperature pretty close to normal. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:10.000 And so I saw that their pulse rate, even when their temperature might be 98.5 during the daytime, 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:21.000 often they would have a pulse rate of 45 or 55 or 65, somewhere below optimal. 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:30.000 And that started me thinking about the factors that regulate body temperature, 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:46.000 and I saw some people who had extreme hypothyroidism who would oscillate between extreme depression and extreme mania. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.000 And when they were going into depression, their temperature would be consistently low, 00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:02.000 and once they switched over to the manic phase, they would wake up with a pulse rate of maybe 75 or 80, 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:07.000 and a temperature right where Broderbarns wanted it. 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:13.000 And so besides just the average pulse rate and temperature, 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:22.000 I saw that after those people would eat a big breakfast, their temperature would fall. 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:26.000 By 11 o'clock, they would show up a hypothyroid temperature. 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:32.000 And during the night, everyone tends to have more of the stress hormones, 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:37.000 alternating surges of adrenaline and cortisol, for example. 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:47.000 And the people who went past the exhaustion phase of hypothyroidism and reached the manic phase 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:58.000 kept extremely high levels of cortisol and adrenaline and usually other transmitters like serotonin. 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:10.000 And since food reduces stress somewhat, getting your blood sugar up, and daylight also reduces stress, 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:16.000 if you see their temperature and pulse rate fall after a good meal, 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:26.000 that is another thing that reveals behind those indicators that can reveal a low metabolic rate 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:35.000 was just being held up by emergency stimulation from adrenaline and cortisol. 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:40.000 So just to summarize once again for everyone I'm seeing, 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.000 what I'm saying is if we don't eat the right foods, 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:51.000 if we're not eating foods that provide our body with the right amount of protein, sugar, carbs, and fat, 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:55.000 or for any reason if our body goes into that sympathetic stress state, 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000 it's going to provide our body with more oxygen and glucose. 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:01.000 So if we don't get that from our foods or downregulant inflammation, 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:06.000 you'll see these specific hormones inhibit how the thyroid works, 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.000 you're going to get a lower body temperature. 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:13.000 So even though you think you're eating healthy foods, if your body temperature does go down, 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:19.000 it could be the ratios, but it could actually be the quality of the foods inhibiting how your metabolism should work. 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.000 Same thing with the pulse. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:27.000 I mean you're saying, I want to clarify because a lot of people think the opposite, 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:32.000 that if someone has a low pulse, our society believes that that actually means they're healthy. 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.000 I always use the example of like Lance Armstrong, everyone says, 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:40.000 well his resting heart rate is whatever it is, like 40, and everyone thinks that's super healthy. 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.000 But you're saying that people with a low resting heart rate, 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:48.000 that means they're actually downregulating their own metabolism because of the foods that they're eating 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.000 or the wrong foods they're eating. 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:59.000 Yeah, and it tends to go with fertility problems, hormonal problems, low testosterone, increased estrogen, 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:03.000 a lot of degenerative problems. 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:06.000 Right. 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.000 So that's great. 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.000 I mean I think that's important for people to understand because it's such an easy tool, you know, 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.000 to do at home and during the day to see what's going on. 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:24.000 Let's talk about the hormones a little bit so people get an idea of, okay, we know what a thyroid is. 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:32.000 Let's talk about some of these hormones like T3 and T4 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.000 and where most of this -- what is most of this conversion happen in the body? 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:42.000 Because everyone thinks it's the thyroid and maybe you can kind of enlighten us maybe where most of this is happening. 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:53.000 Well, Brode Varnes was one of the first people to notice the importance of the liver in thyroid function. 00:35:53.000 --> 00:36:04.000 The Biscons in 1942 to '45 were showing how the liver regulates hormones, 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.000 but they were concentrating on estrogen. 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.000 And if the liver was lacking thyroid or protein or some vitamins, 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:23.000 the Biscons showed that your estrogen would skyrocket in proportion to the reduced function of the liver. 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:32.000 And there's this antagonism focused on the liver between estrogen and thyroid. 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:37.000 And the thyroid works partly by increasing protein synthesis, 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:48.000 but partly by simply energizing the liver so that it is able to detoxify everything that shouldn't be in the body. 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:56.000 The liver should remove 100% of the estrogen that reaches it in circulation. 00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:04.000 So the body should be able to produce estrogen in the ovary, for example, 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:10.000 send it to do its work in the uterus and breast and so on, 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.000 but then it should immediately be destroyed by the liver. 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:21.000 And if your thyroid is low, the liver loses the ability to detoxify estrogen 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.000 and practically everything else harmful. 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:39.000 And the liver happens to also be the source, as Brita Barnes discovered, of the most active thyroid. 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:48.000 He said it's about two-thirds of the thyroid used by the body is produced in the liver. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:58.000 And if your liver isn't getting enough sugar, enough glucose, or if it doesn't have enough selenium, 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:05.000 it is unable to convert thyroxine into T3. 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:16.000 If you can completely knock out the liver and your thyroid will excrete about this ratio of three parts of thyroxine 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:22.000 to one part of T3, and so as long as your thyroid is working, 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:28.000 your liver will be getting a little bit of T3 and will be able to keep functioning, 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.000 other things being equal. 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:39.000 But if you're under stress, for example, don't have anything to eat for about 24 hours 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:46.000 or are exerting too much energy in proportion to what you're eating, 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:55.000 your liver isn't getting enough glucose to convert the three parts of thyroxine produced in your gland 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.000 into the active T3. 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:11.000 And so you will have this drastic decrease in production of the active triiodothyronine, T3, 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:20.000 most of which comes from the liver when it's well fed with sugar. 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:32.000 If the doctor prescribes only T4, it will work fine in anyone who doesn't need it, 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:40.000 such as 25-year-old healthy men, but women, because of their higher estrogen level, 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:48.000 have many times the incidence of thyroid problems and liver problems that men do, 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:57.000 and it's because of the centrality of the liver to the activation of thyroid hormone 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:08.000 and the liver's essentiality for eliminating estrogen that a little problem with either thyroid 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:14.000 or estrogen means that your liver will allow estrogen to increase in the body 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:19.000 as it decreases its production of active thyroid hormone, 00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:25.000 and that in turn slows the liver even more so it has a vicious circle. 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:30.000 Did everyone get all that? 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:33.000 Good stuff. 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:40.000 So what you're saying is we need selenium to convert T4 to T3, 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.000 and so I'm just kind of summarizing it for myself and for the listeners, 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:46.000 so I can kind of follow along here. 00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:50.000 And selenium, I think we need to ask the question, which we'll get to, 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.000 is where do we get that from besides, you know, what foods? 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.000 We need glucose to make the conversion, and we should talk about that, 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.000 because I think that's huge in our society. 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:03.000 When it comes to foods, we should say the right vegetables and things like that. 00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:08.000 Most people are staying away from the right types of sugars which could be creating this, 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:13.000 and that's probably going to be a whole show in itself. 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:20.000 But at the same time, from maybe exogenous sources or the body's inability to detox it, 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:29.000 blood sugar issues, excess stress, but the estrogen itself will block the T4 to T3 conversion as well. 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:35.000 But also, I don't want to use the word clog up, but back up the liver, 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:41.000 and it will just keep backing up the liver, which can create the hypodermic-like symptoms. 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:53.000 And once that happens, the estrogen can reach the point at which it starts inhibiting the thyroid gland itself, 00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:03.000 the thyroid gland to produce the proper ratio of three parts T4 to one part of T3. 00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:17.000 It does that by breaking down the thyroglobulin, a colloidal kind of glob of protein inside the follicles of the gland. 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:24.000 This has to be digested as needed, breaking each protein molecule down 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:32.000 and releasing these free thyroxine and T3 hormones. 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:38.000 And estrogen inhibits the proteolytic enzyme that releases the hormone. 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:47.000 So first it slows down liver function, but then it reaches a point where it will even block the thyroid itself. 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:56.000 And this is where women tend to have a high frequency of goiter thyroid enlargement. 00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:03.000 They call it Hashimoto's thyroiditis, but most often it's what they used to call colloid goiter, 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:14.000 where since estrogen stimulates the stress hormones in the brain, increasing thyroid stimulating hormone, 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:19.000 estrogen causes the pituitary to drive the thyroid harder. 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:26.000 Meanwhile, it's blocking the ability of the thyroid gland to secrete it, so it tends to enlarge the thyroid 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:34.000 and then they get diagnosed as having thyroiditis. 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:47.000 Progesterone happens to activate these proteins that allow the thyroid to secrete. 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:54.000 I advise women who have an enlarged thyroid not to take progesterone 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:58.000 until they've taken care of the enlargement of the thyroid, 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:10.000 because progesterone will normalize the protein so fast that sometimes they'll go into a slightly hyperthyroid state for a few weeks. 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.000 Now correct me if I'm wrong, you actually talk about it in your book, 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.000 because everyone talks about hypothyroidism, we're kind of skipping a beat here, 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:22.000 but you talk about hyperthyroidism, and I know you're against unsaturated fats and things like that, 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:27.000 but when people are hyperthyroid, it's probably the only time, and correct me if I'm wrong, 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:33.000 you recommend people having small amounts of cauliflower juice or cabbage juice 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:42.000 to actually use the estrogen and the excess cortisol to downregulate the thyroid. 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:43.000 Is that true? 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:50.000 Well, yeah, except that's mostly for the person's relationship with their doctor. 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:58.000 Several people have told me that before they had their thyroid destroyed by surgery or radiation, 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:04.000 they said they had a chronic pulse rate of 125 per minute, 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:11.000 but they never felt so good in their life after having the thyroid gland treated. 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:15.000 They were back to feeling their normal bad self, 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:22.000 but people usually feel great when they're in the so-called hyperthyroid state, 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:31.000 and the reason I tell people how to use cabbage juice and such to slow their pulse 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:36.000 is that their doctors become a danger to them, 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:44.000 tending to bully them into having their thyroid gland suppressed. 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:46.000 All right. 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:49.000 So we talked about TSH, T3, T4. 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:56.000 I know a lot of people out there come in with lab values where they have a high T4 reading. 00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:03.000 What does that mean, and what are some of the symptoms, and what are most doctors recommending? 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.000 What do you recommend? 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:14.000 It very often goes with hypothyroidism because if your liver can't activate it, 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:21.000 if you aren't producing so much estrogen that your gland gets shut off completely, 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:26.000 your gland will go on producing hormone, 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:34.000 and you'll get along in your daily life with a little bit of T3 coming out of your thyroid gland, 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:40.000 but that gradually allows the T4 to accumulate because your liver isn't using it up, 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:52.000 and that tends to slow down even the production of T3 if you get a very high T4 level. 00:46:52.000 --> 00:47:00.000 And what originally got me interested in this interaction of T4 and T3 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.000 was a patient at the medical school in Portland 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:14.000 who was a slightly hypothyroid woman who was prescribed T4 for a few months. 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:19.000 On one grain of equivalent of T4, 100 micrograms, 00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:29.000 she got even more hypothyroid symptoms, and her doctor increased it to 200 micrograms, 00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:32.000 and a few months later she was even worse. 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:38.000 So I think he reached 400 or 500 micrograms of T4, 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:46.000 at which point she went into a myxedema coma and was taken to the hospital unconscious, 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:53.000 and they injected T3, pure T3, and she came right out of the coma. 00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:02.000 But her symptoms got worse directly in proportion to the increased dose of T4, 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:07.000 and after seeing that extreme example, 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:15.000 I have run across probably 100 women with less extreme effects, 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:23.000 but it isn't rare at all for a woman to get worse symptoms, 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:31.000 noises in their head or electrical sensation in their body or swollen muscles 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:43.000 or any of the thousand symptoms of hypothyroidism as a result of taking too much T4. 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.000 Great stuff here. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:53.000 So let's talk about going back towards hypothyroidism and talking about how, you know, 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:57.000 we know, or I should say I know and maybe people don't, 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:01.000 but things like blood sugar dysregulation, adrenaline, cortisol, pituitary, 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.000 all these things can create hypothyroidism, but at the same time, 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:08.000 how does hypothyroidism affect these things such as blood sugar, adrenaline, cortisol, 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:17.000 pituitary, parathyroid, digestion, liver? I mean, how does it really affect our physiology? 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:24.000 When you aren't able to oxidize your sugar all the way to carbon dioxide, 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.000 you produce lactic acid very easily. 00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:38.000 Even at rest, a person will keep producing lactic acid as if they were under strenuous exercise, 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:52.000 and the lactic acid turns on a lot of inflammatory mediators which have systemic effects on your bone and skin, 00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.000 hair growth, everything. 00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:04.000 Lactic acid itself acts as a toxin, and gradually, if you're experiencing that year after year, 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:14.000 it leads to a tendency to fibrosis and arthritis and so-called connective tissue diseases in general 00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:21.000 from an imbalance of the inflammatory mediators, histamine and serotonin especially, 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:34.000 and a tendency of the soft tissues to calcify, so it contributes to hardening of the arteries and heart failure. 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:38.000 So, I don't want to say that it's kind of like an end-all, be-all, but, you know, 00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:47.000 from meeting yourself and then chatting with you, it's almost like if we can get people to regulate their blood sugar, 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:54.000 eat the right foods, or regulate their thyroid, it's almost like you can affect so many systems in the body 00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:01.000 which can actually help with joint pain, digestive problems, lack of energy, menstrual problems, edema. 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:04.000 I mean, the list just keeps going on and on and on. 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:05.000 Is that true? 00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:11.000 I mean, it's almost like we're focusing on one system, but it's like killing two birds with one stone type of thing. 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:14.000 We're focusing on this one system, but we're getting so many other benefits. 00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:25.000 Yeah, because the energy production in the proper way is really what shapes everything. 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:30.000 The body is constantly renewing itself moment by moment. 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:40.000 Like overnight, people have measured that there's a 60% turnover of brain substance in one night 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.000 just because the brain has a high metabolic rate. 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:56.000 And if you aren't renewing yourself at a high rate, you're allowing errors to accumulate. 00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:07.000 And one of the reasons thyroid and other problems get worse over time is that our diets, on average, 00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:18.000 contain a significant amount of thyroid-inhibiting substances, especially the polyunsaturated fatty acids. 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:27.000 And the French did a series of studies that really define how that works. 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:34.000 Long ago, people knew that polyunsaturated fats blocked proteolytic enzymes. 00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:43.000 And in this French series of studies, they saw that the first effect of too much polyunsaturated fat 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:52.000 is to block the ability of the thyroid gland to secrete the hormone by breaking down the thyroid globulin. 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:58.000 And then if the thyroid manages to secrete it, 00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:07.000 the transport of it on proteins in the blood is inhibited in proportion to the unsaturation. 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:15.000 So the fish oil, many five and six unsaturated bonds are the most powerful, 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:20.000 almost total inhibitors of thyroid transport. 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:26.000 But linoleic acid with three double bonds inhibits about 50%, 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:33.000 and linoleic acid with two double bonds inhibits about 30%. 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:38.000 So it's proportional to the number of double bonds, the transport. 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:43.000 And the same thing happens inside the cell. 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:51.000 The responsiveness of the cell to thyroid is inhibited in proportion to the amount of unsaturated fats. 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:58.000 And carotene, even though it's not a fatty acid, is highly unsaturated, 00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:11.000 and it has that same effect of interfering with thyroid function just because of this series of unsaturations. 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:23.000 The accumulated unsaturated fats in the body turn on other antithyroid processes, 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:32.000 so it isn't all immediate and direct, but they make you more susceptible to turning on prostaglandins, 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:39.000 which promote inflammation and increase the tendency to produce lactic acid. 00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:49.000 And they interfere, apart from the thyroid, they interfere with the mitochondrial oxidative energy production. 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:55.000 So after you're 30 or 40 or so, 00:54:55.000 --> 00:55:05.000 almost everyone has accumulated enough of the PUFA to cause a whole range of metabolic problems. 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:15.000 So while we're kind of on the topic of, I don't want to go too much into PUFAs, 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:22.000 but let's go and chat about just estrogen levels and how, we talked about how they block hypothyroidism, 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:25.000 but how hypothyroidism can raise those. 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:31.000 And I think it's a huge concern because most, I shouldn't say most, 00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:35.000 but a lot of women are being prescribed these medications, number one. 00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:41.000 Most people are having issues with detoxifying their body of these estrogens, number two. 00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:52.000 And having this unopposed estrogen in the body can lead to specific dysfunctions or diseases like clotting and edema, 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.000 fibrosis, cysts and all these things. 00:55:54.000 --> 00:56:06.000 There are very close interactions between the increased estrogen, and you mentioned clotting, 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:10.000 estrogen increases serotonin dominance. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:22.000 And serotonin and estrogen both promote and are promoted by the polyunsaturated fats and the low thyroid condition. 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:35.000 So it forms sort of a polar cluster with the energizing thyroid and the good nutrients, sugar, minerals, protein, 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:40.000 and so on, maintaining and energizing the structure. 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:47.000 The emergency stress things, the prostaglandins, serotonin, histamine, cortisol, 00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:57.000 and estrogen are all on the short-term defensive side, but when they become dominant, 00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:07.000 they deform the proper regulatory systems. 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:13.000 All right. 00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:29.000 There's a special problem with the basis for diagnosing estrogen deficiency because in the absence of anti-estrogen substances 00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:42.000 such as progesterone, the estrogen in the blood can go to a very low level because the estrogen is staying inside cells. 00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:52.000 Progesterone knocks it out of cells, inactivates it, but causes it to appear in the bloodstream on its way out the kidneys. 00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:01.000 So in the absence of progesterone, doctors will measure a low level of serum estrogen and prescribe it, 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:09.000 even though they're under that situation, it's very likely that their tissues, breast and uterus in particular, 00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:20.000 are actually overloaded with a chronic supply of estrogen. 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:23.000 I wish I could summarize that. 00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:26.000 I'm at a loss on that one, so I'm going to move on. 00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:33.000 I highly recommend everyone relistening to these shows over and over again because it's an hour plus of information 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:37.000 that you could literally sit down and probably take 50 pages of notes on. 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:43.000 I want to talk about CO2, carbon dioxide, in the thyroid because I know you're a fan of CO2, 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:49.000 but from reading your stuff, you talk about the thyroid and you talk about carbon dioxide. 00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:56.000 How do thyroid hormones raise CO2 and what are the advantages of having higher CO2 levels? 00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:02.000 That means that you're oxidizing things completely. 00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:10.000 If you oxidize fats completely, you get rid of any toxic effect from the free fatty acids, 00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:23.000 but you also stop producing lactic acid and stop that whole route of inflammatory harmful processes 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:25.000 of free fatty acids and lactic acid. 00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:37.000 But the carbon dioxide itself binds to all of our proteins, for example, hemoglobin in a diabetic. 00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:45.000 They look at the amount of sugar or fragments attached to proteins such as hemoglobin, 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:58.000 but it's actually the breakdown of fatty acids which contribute about 95% of these glycated proteins 00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:01.000 that accumulate in diabetes and aging. 01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:11.000 But when we're producing enough carbon dioxide, it not only protects the cell by removing the excitatory calcium, 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:21.000 but it also binds to all of our proteins that have a lysine group or another amine group exposed. 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:29.000 And these amines are where the breakdown products, free radical fatty acids 01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:35.000 and so-called glycation end products, it's where they bind. 01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:44.000 And so carbon dioxide binds protectively to proteins, keeping them in the native youthful state, 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:53.000 which happens to be the things called hormone receptors are in a different state 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:56.000 when there's adequate carbon dioxide. 01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:59.000 Insulin is in a different state. 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:09.000 Growth hormone, all of our peptide hormones can bind carbon dioxide becoming a different substance. 01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:17.000 So all of our hormone system is deranged if we just hyperventilate and blow out too much carbon dioxide 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:23.000 or if we're hypothyroid, basically we're in effect hyperventilating even at rest, 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:28.000 producing lactic acid instead of carbon dioxide. 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:36.000 So what you're saying is the more, I should say, the more CO2 we're essentially producing, 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:44.000 it allows our thyroid to work more efficiently, which is basically those levels are downregulating lactic acid 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:47.000 and serotonin and all these inflammatory markers. 01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:49.000 Is that correct? 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:53.000 Yes, the CO2 is in itself anti-inflammatory. 01:01:53.000 --> 01:02:00.000 A lot of hospitals are now recognizing that they were killing patients by giving them pure oxygen 01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:10.000 or even hyperventilating them, and they can prevent most of the hospital-induced lung failure 01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:18.000 and a lot of brain damage by giving them carbon dioxide or just hypoventilating them 01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:25.000 so they accumulate their own carbon dioxide to a protective anti-inflammatory degree. 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:28.000 That's awesome stuff, man. 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.000 It's fascinating. 01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:32.000 Let's just skip it a little. 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:36.000 What do you -- I know this is -- you really can't give 100 recommendations, 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:39.000 but let's talk about people that don't even have a thyroid. 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:42.000 What are your recommendations? 01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:46.000 Because I got some questions about people, you know, I don't even have a thyroid. 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:47.000 What do I do? 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:49.000 Obviously nutrition is key and all those things, 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:54.000 but do you recommend them being on specific thyroid hormones? 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:59.000 If you lived in a non-industrial culture, 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:05.000 they would not have to remove the thyroid when they sell a chicken or a fish, 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:12.000 and they would throw the beef and pork thyroid glands into a sausage mixture, 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:19.000 and so you would get dietary thyroid if you were eating the way people did even in America until 1940 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:27.000 when the FDA came in, Agriculture Department, banned the sale of thyroid in food. 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:31.000 But looking at the natural diet, 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:38.000 everyone would be getting the equivalent of half a grain of glandular thyroid extract 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:42.000 just as part of their ordinary animal food diet. 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:52.000 Shrimps, oysters, crabs, everything like that that doesn't have a vertebrate type of thyroid gland, 01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:55.000 eating those you get some thyroid in your diet. 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:57.000 Milk contains some thyroid. 01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:04.000 So babies who otherwise would be cretins, as long as they're breastfed, 01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:07.000 they don't need a thyroid gland. 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.000 They get enough thyroid in their mother's milk. 01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:15.000 After Three Mile Island, a lot of babies were born without thyroid glands, 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:21.000 but no one noticed the breastfed babies didn't have a thyroid until they were weaned, 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:26.000 and then they became hypothyroid drastically. 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:32.000 So eating the right foods, avoiding the polyunsaturated fats 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:41.000 and the hard-to-digest types of starch in a lot of beans, for example, 01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:45.000 have starches that we can't digest. 01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:53.000 Those irritate the intestine, create endotoxin that interferes with thyroid function. 01:04:53.000 --> 01:05:03.000 So avoiding the toxic foods and emphasizing sweet fruits, milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:13.000 and among the meat, beef and lamb, if you include the fibrous parts 01:05:13.000 --> 01:05:19.000 that industrial societies tend to throw away, like in Mexico, 01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:24.000 you get the skin in various preparations. 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:33.000 In Asia, they eat the tendons, ears, snouts, tails, and everything that are very rich in gelatin, 01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:42.000 which is a prothyroid protein because it doesn't contain the precursors to serotonin. 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:50.000 Besides certain meats that you just mentioned and the more gelatinous type of proteins 01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:53.000 and the dairy, the non-inflammatory proteins, 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:58.000 what are some other nutritional recommendations that you can maybe just enlighten us on 01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:04.000 in regards to the prothyroid or pro-liver, even to help the liver to detox? 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:06.000 So it's not always the thyroid. 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:09.000 If you get the liver to work properly, we'll get that benefit for the thyroid. 01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:13.000 So what are some nutrition therapies that you recommend? 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:21.000 Years ago, I read that women had a drastic hormone change when they were taking antibiotics, 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:30.000 and I realized that was probably because of the hormonal effect of intestinal toxins. 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:36.000 So I had some women measure their blood, estrogen, progesterone, and cortisol, 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:41.000 and then eat a carrot a day for a few days and remeasure it. 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:48.000 The carrot has antibiotics, and the fiber can't be digested in the toxins by bacteria 01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:51.000 because of these antibiotics. 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:54.000 And after just a few days of a daily carrot, 01:06:54.000 --> 01:07:06.000 their hormones were back in a very favorable state, reducing estrogen and cortisol, increasing progesterone and thyroid. 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:10.000 So you're saying that carrots--I mean, most people are going, "This is kind of silly," 01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:14.000 but you're saying that a carrot, because of what the carrot is made up of, 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:20.000 actually helps the GI system in the liver to absorb toxins and to actually detoxify them. 01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.000 So you're saying people that maybe have thyroid issues or liver detox issues, 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.000 that using carrots as a therapeutic tool will benefit them. 01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:36.000 Yes, a raw carrot, not a cooked carrot, because the carotene is an antithyroid factor. 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:41.000 But you can even rinse off some of the carotene after you grate it or shred it. 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:48.000 But a lot of hypothyroid people control their symptoms for years just by having a daily raw carrot 01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:54.000 because of that cleansing effect on the intestine and the liver. 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:57.000 What other foods are going to enhance that T4-T3 conversion? 01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:03.000 I mean, I love which--we're hoping for it to do a whole show on sugar because it's a huge topic. 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:06.000 But you talk about glucose, you talk about selenium. 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:13.000 What are some other foods that people should be eating to actually help bring the thyroid to an efficient level 01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:17.000 but also help with that conversion, that T4-T3 conversion? 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:24.000 The very sweet, low-fiber foods, filtered orange juice, 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:31.000 well-strained orange juice from sweet oranges is the safest that I know of. 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:40.000 And there are several tropical fruits, probably 100 tropical fruits that are very safe and helpful. 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:48.000 One very odd food, if you have a centrifugal juicer, you can juice a raw potato 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:55.000 and then cook the juice like you would scramble an egg and get rid of the starch. 01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:02.000 But you have a very safe, high-quality protein and mineral formulation. 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:12.000 In practice, good orange juice and a few other tropical fruits are very good for your liver and thyroid balance. 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:16.000 Now, why do you say really good, strained orange juice? 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:19.000 Because I know you've mentioned that before. 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:25.000 Any of the indigestible fibers, the commercial orange juices, 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:32.000 they've learned enzymically to create new chemical substances that they sell as pulp. 01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:44.000 It's a type of fiber that can't be digested and can't be removed from the juice once they've chemically altered it. 01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:49.000 So you want to avoid the commercial pulpy so-called orange juices. 01:09:49.000 --> 01:10:00.000 And if you make it yourself, just running it through a strainer is enough so that you don't feed the bacteria with these fibers that we can't digest. 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:02.000 I see. I see. 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:15.000 Of the proteins, of the common convenient proteins, cheese and eggs and shellfish are very high-quality 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:25.000 and associated with prothyroid other nutrients, calcium, for example. 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:26.000 Same with your saturated fats. 01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:30.000 I know you're a huge advocate of coconut oil because it's prothyroid. 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:35.000 It helps the liver store glycogen and it helps the body detox from unsaturated fats. 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.000 But someone actually had a question about coconut oil. 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:49.000 It is prothyroid, and I know you have a science and a philosophy on what type of coconut oil you recommend and why. 01:10:49.000 --> 01:10:52.000 Maybe you can answer that for one of the listeners. 01:10:52.000 --> 01:11:04.000 Well, I've had many very delicious, crude, simple, homemade coconut oils that are great for ice cream and puddings and such. 01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:20.000 A lot of people are allergic to those aromatic, tasty things, and so just for safety, it's good to have it completely filtered so that there is no free fatty acid breakdown product 01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:31.000 and none of the solid particulate coconut matter or even the aromatic stuff, just for safety to avoid allergies. 01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:40.000 But any of the purely saturated fats are anti-inflammatory. 01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:48.000 So it's just that the coconut oil with the short chains, it's very quickly metabolized. 01:11:48.000 --> 01:12:02.000 And so for things like losing weight, weightlifters have caught on to using the fractionated coconut oil to get even the shorter average chain length 01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:15.000 because it intensely increases the metabolic rate to have those shorter saturated fats, and they're anti-inflammatory, anti-histamine, and so on. 01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:17.000 Right. 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:20.000 Any other nutritional recommendations? 01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:32.000 Most of the listeners probably, some practitioners, some lay people, any other nutritional recommendations that you can toss in there in regards to proteins, fats, or carbs, lethargy, thyroid? 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:42.000 Yeah, people are probably going to continue eating some vegetables just because they like them, but I encourage them to cook them to death. 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:50.000 Cook them as much as like 40 minutes of boiling makes them a lot safer. 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:56.000 There were experiments in the 1940s with rats. 01:12:56.000 --> 01:13:08.000 They fed a selection of vegetables, either canned vegetables or the same vegetables raw, and the ones eating the canned vegetables thrived and were well nourished. 01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:12.000 Even rats couldn't live on raw vegetables. 01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:14.000 Right. 01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:16.000 Right. 01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:31.000 Awesome stuff, and I'm sure there's more in regards to the thyroid, but of course, I mean, we could spend hours talking about this, the hormonal implications, the liver, digestion, you know, what foods to eat, 01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:38.000 but of course, we can't take up the next six days of your life as much as I'd love to. 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:42.000 Is there anything else you'd love to -- I mean, we're taking some callers now that we have a little bit of time left. 01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:51.000 If you call from 858, I'm not going to answer the phone, but you're welcome to call in, anyone, 347-426-3546. 01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:58.000 If you've got a question, when you call in, tell me the area code you're calling from and ask Ray the question, 01:13:58.000 --> 01:14:05.000 but is there anything else you want to add, Ray, in regards to thyroid that you think is important for the listeners to know? 01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:08.000 Nothing occurs to me. 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:09.000 Nothing comes to you? 01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:10.000 Yeah. 01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:11.000 All right. 01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:13.000 Well, I'm kind of out of all my questions. 01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:22.000 I had a slew of questions, and like I said, I don't want to take up tons of your time because we really appreciate you coming on and educating us on this, 01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:31.000 so we just want to say thanks, me and Jeannie, all the listeners, we're getting great e-mails and people just loving the shows and your information, 01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:33.000 so we really appreciate it. 01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:34.000 Okay. 01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.000 Thanks. 01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:41.000 So I want to wish you a happy day, and I guess we'll chat again. 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:42.000 Okay. 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:43.000 Very good. 01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:44.000 Bye. 01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:46.000 Have a good one. 01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:48.000 Bye. 01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:49.000 All right, guys, there you go. 01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:54.000 That's about an hour and 15 minutes of Ray P talking about the thyroid, nutritional therapies. 01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:59.000 Just one thing I want to say is, you know, if you're a practitioner, 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:06.000 really understand the why behind what you're doing before you start telling people to do this or that or take this or eat a carrot. 01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.000 I think that's important because I think people can easily, especially now, 01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:13.000 well, all this information is all over the web and all over Facebook and YouTube. 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:18.000 I think people are, you know, and once again, this is my story, people just jumping on board 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:22.000 and starting to, you know, eat gelatin and eat salt, 01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:26.000 and I think we're going to run into the same problem as every other system out there, 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:30.000 and it's going to give the philosophy and the science a bad name. 01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:35.000 So I really recommend you reading his articles, reading his books, listening to the shows, taking notes. 01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:38.000 I mean, I have to read his article ten times. 01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:41.000 I mean, they're just so deep and you can get so much information. 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:43.000 So I highly recommend it. 01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:48.000 And at the same time, don't just think you can eat a carrot and you're going to help your thyroid. 01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:56.000 And, you know, there's so much more to his philosophy than just eating a carrot or eating gelatin. 01:15:56.000 --> 01:15:57.000 So really understand that. 01:15:57.000 --> 01:16:01.000 So if you're the layperson and you're listening to the show and you just started eating a carrot, 01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:03.000 and you're like, "Well, this is going to help my thyroid," 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:08.000 just realize there's many pieces to the healing puzzle and there's many facets to this program, 01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:11.000 and we had them for an hour and 15 minutes. 01:16:11.000 --> 01:16:14.000 So just realize there's a lot more to it than that. 01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:16.000 And if you've got questions, give us a call. 01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:20.000 Like I said, give us a call and set up a consult with us, 01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:24.000 and we can kind of helpfully educate you and let you know how we work. 01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:27.000 We do have a caller, but unfortunately he's gone. 01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:28.000 I'll maybe take the caller. 01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:32.000 Let's see what we've got going on here. 01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:38.000 Hello, 63, you're on the air, but Ray's gone, unfortunately. 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:41.000 Did you have a question? 01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:43.000 No. 01:16:43.000 --> 01:16:45.000 That's why I don't take callers. 01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:48.000 Anyway, guys, I really appreciate everyone tuning in. 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:50.000 Share the show. 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:52.000 I'll be emailing Ray to set up the April show. 01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:57.000 Not sure what we're going to be talking about next, but really appreciate everyone's support. 01:16:57.000 --> 01:16:59.000 And if you're confused, guess what? 01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:01.000 That means you're actually learning.