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It's just better. 00:00:30.880 --> 00:00:40.880 (upbeat music) 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:46.880 You're listening to Holistic Living, brought to you by EastWest Healing and Performance. 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:50.880 And now, here are your hosts, Josh and Jeanne Rubin. 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:56.880 (upbeat music) 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.880 What up everyone? This is Josh and Jeanne Rubin. 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:02.880 I think Jeanne's on the other line right now. Are you there Jeanne? 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.880 I'm here. Can you hear me? 00:01:04.880 --> 00:01:06.880 Already we can hear you. 00:01:06.880 --> 00:01:12.880 This is Holistic Living and from Wellness Weight Loss Pain Elimination and Relaxation. 00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:16.880 But of course, this year we've been having Ray Peat on every month. 00:01:16.880 --> 00:01:20.880 Love to say thank you to him, of course, and keep growing on that. 00:01:20.880 --> 00:01:24.880 And I guess before we introduce Ray and get him on the line, 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:28.880 we wanted to say a couple things about ourselves and about Ray. 00:01:28.880 --> 00:01:32.880 And this is 100% from our mouth and has nothing to do with what Ray said or anything 00:01:32.880 --> 00:01:39.880 because he's a super humble guy and he's really said nothing but answer our questions and say yes to doing the shows. 00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:43.880 First thing is, check out our website at eastwesthealing.com. 00:01:43.880 --> 00:01:50.880 Tons of free resources. It's a resource site, but we do work with clients nutritionally all over the world, 00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:55.880 as far away as Switzerland and Israel, using the phone to help people with thyroid problems, GI problems, 00:01:55.880 --> 00:01:59.880 hormonal imbalances, adrenal issues, fatigue, you name it. 00:01:59.880 --> 00:02:03.880 So give us a call to set up your consultation. You can get all that information on our site. 00:02:03.880 --> 00:02:08.880 As well, keep in tune with our website. It will be changing dramatically in the next three plus months 00:02:08.880 --> 00:02:13.880 in regards to the look of it, the layout, what's on it, store, resources, you name it. 00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:17.880 It's going to be fresh and new. We're really excited about it. 00:02:17.880 --> 00:02:22.880 We're going to be adding with maybe some cheap downloadable videos to your desktop. 00:02:22.880 --> 00:02:26.880 Of course, you have to pay for it, but they'll be very inexpensive and educational at the same time. 00:02:26.880 --> 00:02:35.880 Enough about us. Oh, one more thing. Look us up on Facebook, Josh Rubin, Jeanne Rubin, YouTube, blog, blog talk, check it out. 00:02:35.880 --> 00:02:42.880 The reason for us really doing this, and Jeanne can chime in, is first of all, we're human and we're Americans, 00:02:42.880 --> 00:02:46.880 so we bastardize everything. I don't care who you are. We bastardize it. 00:02:46.880 --> 00:02:53.880 What you have to understand is, from my perspective, and this is just my perception, and maybe Jeanne wants to add something, 00:02:53.880 --> 00:02:58.880 Ray's approach is not an approach. It's a philosophy. It's a science. 00:02:58.880 --> 00:03:05.880 It's a science on how the body works, how its biochemistry works, its biology works, its physiology works, everything. 00:03:05.880 --> 00:03:15.880 It's not about an outside-in type of diet, like Paleolithic dieting and all these different diets out there and vegetarianism. 00:03:15.880 --> 00:03:20.880 It's really based on the science of how the body works, and unfortunately, you can't argue against that. 00:03:20.880 --> 00:03:30.880 Now, you can, of course, because it can create fear. It can create fear, but at the same time, our goal is to educate people. 00:03:30.880 --> 00:03:34.880 It's not to create conflict on Facebook. It's not to create conflict on the show. 00:03:34.880 --> 00:03:38.880 We want to share what we're learning, and that's really the bottom line. 00:03:38.880 --> 00:03:46.880 So, you know, if you get pissed, you get two options. Shut us off and go somewhere else, or ease into it and learn just like we did. 00:03:46.880 --> 00:03:50.880 We're not saying we're know-it-alls. We just want to share this stuff, and that's the bottom line. 00:03:50.880 --> 00:03:58.880 Second thing, it's a process. His articles are technical. It's like finding Waldo and piecing things together, 00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:05.880 and don't bastardize it and think just because you eat gelatin, carrots, and broth that you're going to become healthy and lose weight and healthy thyroid, 00:04:05.880 --> 00:04:08.880 or just because you read an article that you know exactly what you're doing. 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:15.880 We're always learning, and realize that you might need to work with a practitioner or consult with someone in the industry that has studied his stuff 00:04:15.880 --> 00:04:21.880 or, you know, has worked with him directly for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years because there are people out there besides us. 00:04:21.880 --> 00:04:29.880 So, just realize that, and the third thing is I know that we've been getting a lot more emails and phone calls, 00:04:29.880 --> 00:04:38.880 so I'm making a huge assumption that Ray has. Now, Ray's a humble person. From chatting with him, that's what I feel, not on the show, just off the show. 00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:43.880 If you send him an email with 50 questions, he'll probably answer it, and never ask for money. 00:04:43.880 --> 00:04:49.880 Now, he doesn't seem like a guy that's attached to the dollar, but at the same time, he does research. 00:04:49.880 --> 00:04:52.880 Without his research, we wouldn't have this great information. 00:04:52.880 --> 00:04:56.880 So, what I'm asking people, this has nothing to do with what he brought up. He's never even brought this up. 00:04:56.880 --> 00:05:05.880 What I'm asking people is if you are emailing him, or you email him on a regular basis, that out of the kindness of your heart, 00:05:05.880 --> 00:05:13.880 you send him a check for a dollar, you send him a check for $5, $100, whatever you feel is worth it. 00:05:13.880 --> 00:05:16.880 That's really all we're asking, and you can do it anonymously. It's up to you. 00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:19.880 So, that's really all I got to say about that. 00:05:19.880 --> 00:05:28.880 I just think it will be a kind thing to do, since he takes time out of his day once a month to really educate us for free, 00:05:28.880 --> 00:05:32.880 and he's answering all these emails. So, that's really all I ask. 00:05:32.880 --> 00:05:36.880 Today, we're talking about estrogen versus progesterone. 00:05:36.880 --> 00:05:44.880 Jeanne, are you still there? I don't think she's there. I don't hear her. 00:05:44.880 --> 00:05:50.880 You can go to Ray Peat's site, r-a-y-p-e-a-t dot com. 00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:55.880 He's got tons of articles. He's got books, a lot of great information. 00:05:55.880 --> 00:05:59.880 Of course, a little technical, but, you know, you got to work for it. 00:05:59.880 --> 00:06:05.880 A little bit about Ray, he's got a PhD in biology from the University of Oregon, and he specializes in physiology. 00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:06.880 You're going to love it. 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:09.880 He's taught at many different schools, and you can check that out on your site, 00:06:09.880 --> 00:06:14.880 from schools in Mexico, the U.S., Oregon, naturopathic schools. 00:06:14.880 --> 00:06:19.880 He also does private consulting in regards to nutrition counseling. 00:06:19.880 --> 00:06:24.880 He mainly started his work with progesterone and related hormones back in 1968, 00:06:24.880 --> 00:06:29.880 so he's got tons of applicable knowledge in this realm. 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:31.880 That's why we're talking about it today. 00:06:31.880 --> 00:06:34.880 He's done many papers on physiology and chemistry and physics, 00:06:34.880 --> 00:06:40.880 done dissertations outlining progesterone and other hormones closely related to it, 00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:43.880 and the list goes on and on and on. 00:06:43.880 --> 00:06:48.880 Of course, a lot of people know by now that he's really big into hormones and regulating the thyroid 00:06:48.880 --> 00:06:52.880 and using foods that are beneficial to the body based on our physiology. 00:06:52.880 --> 00:06:57.880 So, if you want to learn more about him, check out his website, r-a-y-p-e-a-t dot com. 00:06:57.880 --> 00:06:59.880 Tons of articles and books. 00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:05.880 Let me grab Jeanne and Ray, because I think they're on the other line. 00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:06.880 Just give me a second. 00:07:06.880 --> 00:07:08.880 We've still got a -- 00:07:08.880 --> 00:07:10.880 [ Multiple Speakers ] 00:07:10.880 --> 00:07:12.880 Yes, I'm here. 00:07:12.880 --> 00:07:13.880 All right, we can hear you now. 00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:15.880 Welcome. 00:07:15.880 --> 00:07:17.880 How are we doing, Ray? 00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:19.880 Very good, thank you. 00:07:19.880 --> 00:07:20.880 Great. 00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:21.880 Thanks for coming back on. 00:07:21.880 --> 00:07:22.880 I know everyone's excited. 00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:25.880 We've got, you know, tons and tons of listeners. 00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:28.880 So, let's get to it. 00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:32.880 We're going to be talking about estrogen and progesterone today, which, of course, is more hormones, 00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:34.880 and we'll kind of intertwine this all together. 00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:41.880 It's hard to get specific, but I guess it seems like you've been studying this for, you know, back since the 1960s. 00:07:41.880 --> 00:07:51.880 I guess our first question is, what sparked your interest in the whole estrogen, progesterone, et cetera, 00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:52.880 I guess, hormonal thing? 00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:57.880 You know, because you have lots of articles, and a lot of your books are correlated with that. 00:07:57.880 --> 00:08:00.880 So, what kind of got you to go down that avenue? 00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:07.880 It really started just as a little kid growing up and noticing things. 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:13.880 Whenever I would see a medical textbook, I would read that. 00:08:13.880 --> 00:08:17.880 They were generally more interesting than novels. 00:08:17.880 --> 00:08:26.880 And when I worked in the woods, one of the old timers pointed out that when they wanted a pine tree to bear seeds, 00:08:26.880 --> 00:08:32.880 they would chop it with an ax, and that made it bear fruit. 00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:39.880 And I heard stories about how stress would bring on puberty prematurely, 00:08:39.880 --> 00:08:50.880 and those ideas started blending with what I was hearing and seeing from, like, a woman in the '50s 00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:56.880 who took a shot of estrogen, immediately came down with rheumatoid arthritis, 00:08:56.880 --> 00:09:02.880 which got worse with each injection and completely cleared up when she stopped using it. 00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:10.880 And a classmate's mother had a shot of estrogen for menopause, 00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:19.880 and within 30 minutes was psychotic and was committed to the state institution for several months. 00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:28.880 And the daughter, the classmate, began using contraceptives shortly after that and died of a stroke. 00:09:28.880 --> 00:09:35.880 And other young women who were using those first very high-estrogen contraceptives 00:09:35.880 --> 00:09:40.880 were being disabled by hemorrhaging and such. 00:09:40.880 --> 00:09:49.880 And so it was in the culture by the time I decided to go to graduate school in biology, 00:09:49.880 --> 00:09:57.880 but my intention was to study brain biology, nerve biology, 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:04.880 and that grew out of my interest in psychology and linguistics. 00:10:04.880 --> 00:10:13.880 It turned out that the real science was being done in the endocrinology department 00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:20.880 rather than in the very ideological nerve biology area. 00:10:20.880 --> 00:10:30.880 And the fact that I had moved from Mexico to Oregon about the time I started graduate school, 00:10:30.880 --> 00:10:38.880 I started noticing my own health was changing with the dark, rainy winters in Oregon. 00:10:38.880 --> 00:10:44.880 And I started hearing stories from girls who came to go to graduate school 00:10:44.880 --> 00:10:53.880 and would get a cheap basement apartment and would spend all winter with PMS. 00:10:53.880 --> 00:11:00.880 So that, even though I hadn't yet started studying endocrinology, 00:11:00.880 --> 00:11:11.880 I was seeing more things that were coalescing into the interactions of the environment with the hormones. 00:11:11.880 --> 00:11:20.880 And I had been reading. I taught school. 00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:26.880 I was assigned a course in physics for biology majors, 00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:38.880 and in reading widely to know how to orient that, I ran across Hans Zellye's early work. 00:11:38.880 --> 00:11:47.880 And in the '40s, he had already very well characterized the functions of all of the steroid hormones. 00:11:47.880 --> 00:11:52.880 He had a thing called the Encyclopedia of Steroid Hormones. 00:11:52.880 --> 00:12:04.880 And he demonstrated that a large dose of estrogen created a shock condition. 00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:08.880 It had all of the features of shock. 00:12:08.880 --> 00:12:17.880 And progesterone imitated all of the features of the stress-protecting hormones 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:24.880 so that animals didn't need their adrenal glands if they had a steady supply of progesterone 00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:27.880 or if they were pregnant. 00:12:27.880 --> 00:12:34.880 So the first reaction from a big dose of estrogen was known to be shock-like. 00:12:34.880 --> 00:12:41.880 And so when I shifted over in graduate school to the endocrine department, 00:12:41.880 --> 00:12:53.880 my project was reproductive aging just because that happened to be what the university had in the field of endocrine research. 00:12:53.880 --> 00:13:06.880 And my thesis advisor had demonstrated that estrogen causes miscarriage, basically infertility, 00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:13.880 but if you give the right dose at any stage of pregnancy, it will cause abortion. 00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:26.880 And he had demonstrated that vitamin E in large doses would delay age-related infertility. 00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:37.880 And my project was studying the oxidative changes in the uterus that occurred during aging. 00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:48.880 And I found that the changes of the uterus with aging were the same as those produced by estrogen treatment, 00:13:48.880 --> 00:13:57.880 but also by a deficiency of vitamin E and also by radiation treatment. 00:13:57.880 --> 00:14:10.880 And I started seeing how relevant Hans Selye's work was showing the stress shock imitating effect of estrogen. 00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:18.880 And in fact, any kind of shock or stress has estrogenic effects. 00:14:18.880 --> 00:14:30.880 You can make an animal go into estrus by irradiating it, not just its head or ovaries, but any part of the body. 00:14:30.880 --> 00:14:35.880 Something is produced that has an estrogenic effect. 00:14:35.880 --> 00:14:41.880 If you put a plastic bag over a rat's head, it goes into estrus. 00:14:41.880 --> 00:14:52.880 Suffocation activates the so-called estrogen receptors and will actually increase the production of estrogen 00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:55.880 and the sensitivity to estrogen. 00:14:55.880 --> 00:15:07.880 And even without estrogen, those stress situations will imitate the functions of estrogen. 00:15:07.880 --> 00:15:12.880 Interesting. A lot of people probably haven't, some people haven't read about Hans Selye. 00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:18.880 He was someone back in the day that kind of, I would say, if I could be incorrect or correct, coined the term stress 00:15:18.880 --> 00:15:22.880 and developed the general adaptation syndrome. 00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:31.880 Now, when we talk about estrogen, I guess we'll get into the whole radiation thing and we can talk about where it comes from. 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:38.880 But, you know, I guess I want your take on this because so many people, because of synthetic estrogens 00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:43.880 and our environment with estrogens and the stress reaction with estrogen, 00:15:43.880 --> 00:15:47.880 I think a lot of people make the misconception that it's essentially bad. 00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:54.880 And correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, essentially, you know, it's really not a female hormone 00:15:54.880 --> 00:15:57.880 because men and women both have it, correct? 00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:03.880 So we actually need it to survive. It's a problem when it becomes more of an excess that it's a problem. 00:16:03.880 --> 00:16:10.880 Yeah, it's really the essential masculinizing hormone. 00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:17.880 The females can have it at the crucial developmental stage, 00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:25.880 but they have a lot of a protein called alpha-fetoprotein that inactivates estrogen. 00:16:25.880 --> 00:16:34.880 So at that stage, estrogen will create a male functioning organism 00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:41.880 while it won't affect the healthy female fetus or infant 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:48.880 because the female is simply protected against estrogen by that special protein. 00:16:48.880 --> 00:16:55.880 So its basic early function is as a masculine hormone. 00:16:55.880 --> 00:17:06.880 And the estrogen industry really is where the idea came from that it's a female hormone. 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:14.880 It was identified in the ovary, but the main ovarian hormone, 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:19.880 which is the feminizing hormone, is progesterone. 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:29.880 And men have quite a bit of progesterone, but women, probably the reason women live longer than men 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:35.880 is that they are able to produce much more progesterone than men 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:42.880 since men produce it mainly in their adrenal glands. 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:47.880 So I think for everyone listening, it's super important to hear that, 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:53.880 and correct me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to estrogen and progesterone, 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:57.880 there's no such thing as a male hormone or a female hormone because we both have them. 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.880 It's how they're labeled based on maybe whoever the research, whoever is doing them. 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:08.880 And they both play a huge role in how our physiology works, how our hormonal system works. 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.880 So it's really not that men have this and women have that. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.880 We both have them, and we actually need them. 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:20.880 It's when one becomes very deficient or excessive in a sense that it creates an imbalance. 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.880 So I think that's an important part. 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:28.880 And remember that men and women produce them. 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.880 It's not just a female thing. 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:41.880 Yeah, it's an excitatory transmitter, and its effect in females is-- 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:48.880 the main effects are to cause the pituitary to produce prolactin, 00:18:48.880 --> 00:19:00.880 to cause the breasts to develop, produce more tubules and keep growing, 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.880 where progesterone stops the growth and differentiates them, 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:10.880 and to cause the uterus to expand greatly in preparation for pregnancy. 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:18.880 But those effects-- there's a great surge of estrogen right around the time of ovulation 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:25.880 that lasts for about 12 hours, and that releases histamine in many tissues 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:31.880 that activates a great surge of cell division. 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.880 Both histamine and serotonin are released by estrogen. 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:47.880 And pregnancy requires that only in the sense that the uterus is activated 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:55.880 and made sensitive to the contact of the fertilized ovum, 00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:02.880 and that preparatory activation is what estrogen is needed for. 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:05.880 But you can substitute many other irritants. 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:13.880 You can cause implantation to happen just with histamine in the absence of estrogen. 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:21.880 So estrogen isn't really essential for reproduction by the female in that sense 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:26.880 that you can substitute other things. 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.880 So in regards to estrogen and progesterone, you could have already mentioned this, 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:36.880 but beside the menstrual cycle and fertility, we talk about these hormones, 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.880 and I know you talk about estrogen being excitatory, 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.880 and I do want to talk about histamine and prolactin and all these other hormones 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.880 because I think it's important for people to understand them as well as serotonin, 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:50.880 which is your newest newsletter, which is fabulous, by the way. 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:58.880 But what other roles do these things play in our lives beside the menstrual cycle, 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.880 or I should say women's menstrual cycle? 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.880 I mean you talk about how estrogen regulates blood sugar, right? 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:17.880 Yeah, it excites -- if you have too much of it, it will cause insulin to be over secreted 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.880 and can lower blood sugar that way. 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:30.880 But even though it doesn't need an estrogen receptor to activate a cell, 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:35.880 just about every cell in the body contains estrogen receptors, 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:39.880 and they tend to be increased by stress. 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:47.880 But there are other hormones that can imitate estrogen's excitatory effects 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.880 on the uterus and breast, for example. 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:56.880 The pituitary is the source of many excitatory hormones, 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:07.880 and so in great stress you get estrogenic influences from even the ACTH, 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:12.880 prolactin, FSH, and so on in the pituitary. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:19.880 These act on many tissues in the same way that estrogen does. 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:28.880 The thyroid-stimulating hormone itself has some effects very similar to estrogen's. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:30.880 Right. 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.880 So I guess -- I'm sorry, go ahead. 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:35.880 No, go ahead. 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.880 I was going to say, going a little bit off topic and we can come back, 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:40.880 you're talking about estrogen and progesterone. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.880 You know, there's so many people getting tested for these, 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.880 and now there's so many new ways because you hear all these people saying, well, 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:50.880 you know, blood is inaccurate because in blood, you know, 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:55.880 estrogen and progesterone are bound to proteins like albumin and sex hormone-bonding globulin, 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.880 but in saliva they're not, so saliva is more accurate. 00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.880 Now, you know, I go back and forth, I keep bouncing back and forth, 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.880 and I know there's a lot of people out there that don't know what to do. 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.880 And it's hard because, you know, you see these people that are suffering, 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.880 they go to their doctor, they do a blood lab, everything's fine, 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.880 and then they go to a saliva lab with someone and they see that, you know, 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.880 something's deficient like progesterone and they have their estrogen dominant. 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.880 You know, can you give us your kind of -- your philosophy or thoughts on, A, 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:32.880 which one you feel is a little more accurate and why we see this, why we see this difference? 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:39.880 One of the problems with lab tests is that each lab tends to have its own standard, 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:49.880 and there are practically no studies in which healthy people have been sought out for blood tests 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:51.880 to establish the normal. 00:23:51.880 --> 00:24:02.880 They usually use people who are sick with something else to establish the normal for a given blood test result. 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:11.880 So it's really kind of irrational to pay much attention to what they call normal, 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:19.880 unless you have someone really healthy that you want to consider as your model. 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:32.880 But the idea of protein-bound hormones versus free hormones, if you try to dissolve estrogen 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:40.880 or progesterone, especially in water, you can hardly dissolve progesterone in oil. 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.880 It's very hard to dissolve. 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:50.880 It does bind nicely to albumin and several other kinds of protein. 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:59.880 But one of the assumptions is that what you're measuring in the saliva is free in some sense, 00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:05.880 but they simply are not significantly soluble in water. 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:10.880 So what is it bound to when you're measuring it? 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:21.880 Most tests done in the lab that are called free progesterone or free estrogen are really done by dialysis, 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:31.880 which means that the hormone which is bound to a protein is able to pass through a membrane, 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:43.880 which is usually a protein membrane, and is picked up on the other side by something which also is not in the watery phase, 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:47.880 an antibody, for example, or other protein. 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:53.880 So freedom is purely a metaphysical idea. 00:25:53.880 --> 00:26:01.880 Everything is moving along on the microscopic level, a solid phase. 00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:09.880 So there's no real meaning outside of the laboratory, this distinction. 00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:19.880 So the saliva, if the hormones are associated with something, but it just isn't well-defined what they're associated with. 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:24.880 And several people have done tests. 00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:33.880 They've attached the hormone covalently to albumin so that it can't possibly get loose. 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:40.880 So it's absolutely a protein-bound hormone, and they find that it works. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.880 It goes right into the cell. 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:53.880 Albumin has no trouble getting into the cytoplasm, into the mitochondrion, into the nucleus, taking its hormone with it. 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:59.880 And they've even attached hormones to the surface of red blood cells, 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:10.880 and that way they can tell whether the cell is sensing it at the surface or whether it has to travel into the cell on its carrier protein. 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:25.880 The whole idea that a hormone has to be free from a protein to get into the cell derives from the idea that there's a barrier at the surface of the cell. 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:44.880 It's really a distinction between a proteinaceous, oil-loving system, which is the cell, and the relatively wetter, less oil-loving external fluids and bloodstream. 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:55.880 So I guess, if I heard you correctly, and I could be wrong, that when it comes to a lab, it's really -- it's not that one or the other is better, 00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:02.880 but -- well, it's more accurate, but in your eyes, the blood tests would be more accurate when it comes to the hormones? 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:15.880 Yeah, there's a very good base of information, even though their definition of what might be normal can be hard to interpret, 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:24.880 but still you have a big base of information about how the measurements are made. 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:37.880 And people vary tremendously in the amount of saliva they produce and even in the chemical composition and protein content of the saliva. 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:47.880 Depending on what's causing you to salivate, the protein content of the saliva is variable and also the hormone content. 00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:57.880 Okay, so it's really that blood tests are accurate. The problem is we have so many norms, so the problem is people might have all this symptomatology, 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:04.880 but whoever they do the lab with, they're coming back within the norms. So they're being seen as, okay, the problem is -- 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:07.880 What the norm is based off of. 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:22.880 When you look at the functional outcomes of manipulating the steroids as they've done in in vitro fertilization and fertility clinics, 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:34.880 they see that the results in humans are almost exactly the same as had been established for about 50 years in animals, 00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:43.880 that fertility requires from 50 to 100 times as much progesterone as estrogen. 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:52.880 And that goes back to the fact that estrogen creates stress, miscarriage, and abortion. 00:29:52.880 --> 00:30:04.880 And progesterone is really the progestational hormone. It really antagonizes the miscarriage-producing effect of estrogen. 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:17.880 And so the more you have, the better it is for pregnancy, and the person who is fertile is also resistant to stress in general and shock and so on. 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.880 Okay. 00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:27.880 So that's kind of somewhere I want to go right now as far as discussing estrogen and its role in stress and how that all kind of comes together, 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:38.880 because even speaking about infertility and all these clinics that have popped up and how much more infertility we're seeing with people and miscarriages and whatnot. 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:46.880 And again, estrogen has a role in stress and how that all kind of comes together, because I think it's a huge problem. 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:52.880 And we're seeing such a huge, whether it's an estrogen dominance or a progesterone deficiency, 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.880 kind of what are some of the environmental components that are contributing to this? 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:00.880 Because when people think stress, they think emotional or this or that, 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:08.880 but it's really more looking out around the environment to see what's creating this imbalance in women, 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:14.880 because I mean, I know I'm probably not the only one that's seeing this huge imbalance. 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:21.880 Anything stressful in the environment tends to increase estrogen. 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.880 This research goes back to about 1940. 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:35.880 The Biscons showed that malnutrition, after the Second World War, they tested it on humans, 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:44.880 but they had been testing it on rats, showing that malnutrition and other stresses would increase the estrogen. 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:53.880 Primarily in their studies, malnutrition caused the liver to be unable to destroy estrogen, 00:31:53.880 --> 00:32:03.880 which normally 100 percent of the estrogen that gets to the liver is prepared for excretion by the kidneys or into the bile. 00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:15.880 And if the liver is underactive because of, for example, a protein or vitamin B deficiency or a thyroid deficiency, 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:24.880 100 percent of the estrogen reaching the liver can pass right through it back into the bloodstream. 00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:37.880 And that recirculating estrogen then turns on the adrenal stress hormones directly by acting on the adrenal cortex 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:44.880 and by blocking the ability of the thyroid gland to secrete the thyroid hormone, 00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:50.880 which is needed by the liver to inactivate estrogen. 00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:05.880 So a protein deficiency or a B vitamin deficiency is one of the things that can turn on absolute estrogen control and infertility. 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:15.880 And thyroid used to be in the 1940s and before was recognized as the basic fertility drug. 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:31.880 And as progesterone came to be understood, it was seen that thyroid is needed to turn cholesterol into progesterone to maintain a healthy pregnancy. 00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:42.880 And increasingly, one of the environmental factors that impairs liver function, increases estrogen activity, 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:52.880 and inhibits thyroid function is the unsaturated oil, polyunsaturated so-called essential fatty acids. 00:33:52.880 --> 00:34:01.880 These are all antithyroid and pro-estrogen and anti-progesterone. 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:16.880 And some French researchers who had been hearing the propaganda about fish oil being good for the brain decided that they would demonstrate that fetuses are smarter 00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:33.880 when the mother is getting a fish oil supplement by doing a sound and response test on the woman's abdomen, getting the fetus reaction to a sound. 00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:45.880 And they found that the women who were getting the fish oil supplement, the fetuses had retarded learning reactions. 00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:53.880 And when the babies were born, they found that not only were they smaller overall, but their brains were smaller. 00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:59.880 And if they had been paying attention to the animal research in the preceding 50 years, 00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:16.880 they would have seen that this is very predictable, that polyunsaturated fatty acids by increasing estrogen, lowering thyroid and progesterone retard the development of the brain of the fetus. 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.880 So, any stress alone, obviously, like you said, can mimic the estrogen reaction, 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:29.880 but you're saying that foods in itself can actually, like foods that are high in unsaturated fats or fish oils, 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:39.880 can actually mimic that reaction, which can downregulate the thyroid as well as, what's the word I'm looking for, 00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:48.880 not back up the liver, but create liver toxicity problems as well as gut issues and inflammation and things like that, correct? 00:35:48.880 --> 00:36:00.880 Yeah. The intestine is a very important factor because the liver excretes part of the estrogen through the kidneys by making it water soluble. 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:13.880 But part of it, which isn't that water soluble, goes into the bile and is excreted with the feces, assuming everything is working right. 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:23.880 But if the wrong bacteria are present and the bowel is sluggish, which always happens in hypothyroidism, 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:34.880 that estrogen tends to be reabsorbed, adding stress to the liver and raising the systemic estrogen level. 00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:44.880 Sometimes just an antibiotic will drastically and immediately lower your estrogen and stress hormones 00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:53.880 and increase the progesterone just by limiting that reabsorption from the intestine. 00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:59.880 And that's what got me interested in the raw carrot effect. 00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:00.880 Right. 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:13.880 You see the same effect, lower estrogen and cortisol and higher progesterone within about three days of eating a raw carrot every day. 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:17.880 So everyone that's listening, he talked about this last show. 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:26.880 He uses just one raw carrot to help prevent reabsorption of this estrogen or toxins in the intestine. 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:35.880 So he uses the food as a source of almost like charcoal, in a sense, to help prevent toxicity in the liver. 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:46.880 Yeah. As well as absorbing the estrogen like charcoal, it reduces the absorption of endotoxin and serotonin. 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:56.880 The intestine is a constant source of stress from endotoxin according to how irritated it is 00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:01.880 and how poorly digested the starch and fiber are and so on. 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:09.880 And once it gets irritated, then it can produce massive amounts of serotonin that disturb the whole system. 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:11.880 Right. 00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:14.880 Now, we're talking about estrogen, but there's other hormones that are correlated with it. 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:23.880 So maybe if you could touch upon, kind of rewind a little and talk about prolactin and what it can do to the body 00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:30.880 and their correlation maybe with osteoporosis and cortisol and adrenaline and even histamine. 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.880 Because we're talking about them, I think it's important for people to know it's not just estrogen. 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:41.880 It's how it can actually cause a hormonal cascade of all these other hormones, including serotonin. 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:53.880 Yeah. The brain, many people have been taught that mast cells or basophils are the only cells that produce histamine. 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.880 But any cell in the body seems to be able to produce it. 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.880 Cancer cells can produce it. 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:09.880 Brain cells, there's a network in the lower part of the brain that specializes in histamine signaling 00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:16.880 to the rest of the brain, and it seems to be a stress organizing influence. 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:25.880 And serotonin is the other general stress signaling system in the brain. 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:33.880 When anything goes wrong, your brain activates the histamine and serotonin system. 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:45.880 And prolactin is one of the stress-reacting hormones, ACTH and thyroid-stimulating hormone or others. 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:55.880 But the prolactin can be used as an indicator of many bad conditions. 00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:01.880 It tends to increase steadily with aging in both men and women. 00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:15.880 And the normal range for prolactin about 30 years ago was lowered because they saw that people with the, 00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.880 I forget the units, but the standard number, the top had been 20, 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:27.880 but they started seeing that that was really, the top number was increased 00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:32.880 because of the large number of women who were using birth control pills. 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:42.880 And there was an epidemic of prolactin secreting pituitary tumors resulting from the contraceptive estrogen exposure. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:54.880 And so 30 years ago, the healthy normal range for prolactin was set back to 2 to 12. 00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:04.880 And with age, that's a healthy person will rise in old age, maybe 8 or 10 or something like that. 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:12.880 But just a few years ago, the top number was raised in some labs to 25 or 30 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:22.880 because the average person is now in a stressed hyperprolactinemic condition. 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:31.880 So don't feel reassured if your prolactin is only 18 or 20 on the test 00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.880 because everything is under stress when it's that high. 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.880 Right. And I know you... 00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:49.880 It's been known for many years that prolactin is a major factor in bone loss. 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:51.880 Right. 00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:59.880 A long time editor of the yearbook of endocrinology in one of... 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:04.880 I think it might have been the very last volume he edited. 00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:13.880 He said it's interesting that prolactin causes osteoporosis, that estrogen increases prolactin, 00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:18.880 but people are being told that estrogen will prevent osteoporosis. 00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:25.880 That's going on and that was his last year as the editor of that book. 00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:28.880 And it's... 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:37.880 Men develop osteoporosis progressively with age and with increasing prolactin. 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:44.880 So men also have a tendency for the estrogen to creep up with age, 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.880 pushing the prolactin and stress hormones up. 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:52.880 So it isn't strictly a female thing, 00:42:52.880 --> 00:43:03.880 but when progesterone falls at the first missed period around menopause, 00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:07.880 that's when bone loss really picks up 00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:15.880 and prolactin becomes active under the unopposed influence of estrogen. 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.880 Right. That was kind of my next question, the correlation between that. 00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:20.880 Because you read a lot out there, like I know... 00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.880 I studied Dr. John Lee a lot and Dr. McCormick, 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:27.880 and they talk a lot about that, how prolactin is increased with estrogen production. 00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:33.880 Because a lot of people don't know that estrogen and progesterone actually play a part in osteoclast 00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:41.880 and osteoblast production in regards to bone kind of building up and bone loss and prolactin as well. 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.880 Go ahead. 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:47.880 In the textbook we used in my endocrinology course, 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:56.880 Constance Martin pointed out that people had been looking for an effect of estrogen on the bones 00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:58.880 in various animals and humans. 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:09.880 But at that time, 1970, there had been no evidence that estrogen increased bone calcium retention, 00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.880 although it did increase the soft tissue calcification. 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:21.880 That was very well established in animal research by the late 1960s. 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:32.880 But the first model for estrogen's effect on the bone they tried was the beagle dog, 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:39.880 and in them estrogen caused many problems, including bone loss. 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:43.880 But they found that rats were a good model. 00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:51.880 It turns out that cortisol also increases bone density in rats. 00:44:51.880 --> 00:45:01.880 Their endocrine systems are very different because they live at night and are very short-lived. 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:10.880 It just turned out that rats were a good model for selling estrogen as a way to prevent bone loss. 00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:21.880 But the effect they could see that estrogen was immediately doing was reducing osteoclast activity. 00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:25.880 Therefore, they said it stops bone turnover. 00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:33.880 If you stop breaking down the bone, that's what you need to slow the bone loss. 00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:38.880 That was the whole basis. 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:49.880 Interestingly, the animal research was the whole basis for selling estrogen for preventing bone loss. 00:45:49.880 --> 00:46:00.880 But human research was the basis for getting FDA approval for DES and other estrogens in the first place. 00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:10.880 Because animal research had shown estrogen to be almost across the board toxic and carcinogenic. 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:22.880 So they can use clinical reports in humans, which are very subjective, when they want to sell a product. 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:31.880 But if they can find an animal model where they don't have any data in humans, they'll use the animal model. 00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:37.880 So it's important to look at what the salesmen are referring to. 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:45.880 Is it a clinical or an animal model and how relevant and valid are they? 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:52.880 Right. Yep. Yep. Ray, you've got a lot of good stuff out there, guys, as well as Dr. John Lee. 00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:56.880 And there's another gentleman named Dr. McCormick who did a radio show on osteoporosis. 00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:58.880 You can read more about that. 00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.880 When we talk about -- we'll talk a little bit more about estrogen. 00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:04.880 Then I want to talk about progesterone because we're getting carried away with estrogen, which is important. 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:11.880 But maybe talk about -- because a lot of people that are listening are practitioners, but a lot of laypeople. 00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:13.880 So some of the stuff goes over their head. 00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:20.880 Kind of explain -- because I know you talk about it in one of your books -- there's kind of four ways you can be estrogen dominant. 00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:30.880 Maybe talk about some of the symptoms, per se, like you talk about puffy skin and hypothyroidism and things like that. 00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:37.880 Maybe talk more about some of the symptoms that people might see if they are estrogen dominant or progesterone deficient. 00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:44.880 Since it's excitatory, it can temporarily increase alertness. 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:53.880 It acts on the same enzymes that cocaine acts on to increase the adrenaline action in the brain 00:47:53.880 --> 00:48:03.880 and increases verbal activity so that women can talk twice as fast as men under the influence of estrogen. 00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:15.880 And that's sold as a cognitive virtue, except that that carried on for a long time is excitotoxic to the nerves 00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:21.880 and causes loss of nerve cell function. 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:33.880 And the more acute effects of estrogen dominance in the brain can include chorea, 00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:39.880 sort of uncontrolled, unexpected movements of the arms and legs and such, 00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:47.880 and epilepsy or seizures are promoted by estrogen. 00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:56.880 Water retention is really the first action of estrogen on the cell. 00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:01.880 Inexciting it causes it to take up water. 00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:08.880 Anything that -- if you block the oxygen delivery to a cell, it'll take up water, too. 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:19.880 So the excitation moves the cell's requirements to a level that can't be sustained so the oxygen becomes deficient. 00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:26.880 It takes up water and shifts its pH and electrical charge. 00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:38.880 And that same shift of water into the cell makes the walls of the blood vessels leaky to water. 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:45.880 And so the water shifts, letting sodium and water both go into the tissues, 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:55.880 causing the feet to swell up while you're standing up or during the night your face will share the water burden. 00:49:55.880 --> 00:50:07.880 The estrogen, that immediate water-logging effect, can be compensated by the adrenal, the cortex, 00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:14.880 and the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone effect, 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:24.880 which is to try to compensate for that leakiness by increasing the sodium retention in the kidney. 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:32.880 At first, sodium falls in the estrogen dominance as it goes out of the bloodstream into the tissue, 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:38.880 but then activating this blood pressure regulating system, 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:46.880 you can shift from low blood pressure and swollen feet to high blood pressure 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:56.880 and all of the stress-related cortisol-dominant syndrome. 00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:06.880 Even at an extreme, you can get gangrene constriction of the blood vessels of the extremities 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:16.880 and the calcification of soft tissues that the old endocrine textbooks used to mention. 00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:23.880 That was another thing that Hans Selye investigated in great depth. 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:27.880 He called it calciflaxis and calcirgy, 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:37.880 in which the excited blood vessels first constrict and load up on calcium. 00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:46.880 Estrogen releasing histamine and serotonin precedes that, but calcification and then 00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:54.880 these injured areas tend to load up with iron in most cases, 00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:02.880 and the iron increases the breakdown-free radical production in these tissues. 00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:08.880 So, it can lead to such things as gangrene of the fingers and toes 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:14.880 and scleroderma, hardening of the skin in various areas that are stressed. 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:20.880 I've seen people recover in just a couple of weeks from scleroderma 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.880 when they stopped using an estrogen supplement. 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:26.880 Yeah. 00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:30.880 And a key to remember, I want to speak for Ray, because I understand a lot of his stuff, 00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.880 but of course a lot of his stuff is just over my head too, 00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:37.880 but there's many ways you can be "estrogen-dominant." 00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:40.880 Your body can have difficulty detoxing it in the liver. 00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:47.880 It could be excess because of stress or synthetic prescriptions you're taking. 00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:52.880 It could be from your body oversynthesizing progesterone because of a stress, 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.880 or you could just be progesterone deficient. 00:52:54.880 --> 00:53:00.880 So, I think it's person-dependent, wouldn't you say, or is it always the same? 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.880 Oh, it's always different. 00:53:03.880 --> 00:53:05.880 Okay, yeah. 00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:10.880 If you keep those different factors in mind, it's possible to figure it out. 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:18.880 Because it's a balance between quick emergency stress reactions 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:24.880 and then long-term decompensation of the reactions. 00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:32.880 And progesterone and thyroid are the things that give you the basic long-term protection. 00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.880 Right, and I think listeners need to hear that. 00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:39.880 Just because you're not taking a synthetic, or you might be, which is important to research 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:43.880 because I find most people are taking stuff they know nothing about. 00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.880 But we both, men and women, have estrogen, so you can still have these effects. 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:53.880 Men can have estrogen, so this can be just physiological as well. 00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:58.880 So it's not just from taking something. 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:00.880 We've talked a lot about estrogen. 00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:01.880 Go ahead, Jeanne, I'm sorry. 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:06.880 Well, I was just going to say, in regards to that, as far as how people become estrogen-dominant, 00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:10.880 we've touched on a few different factors, but one you just mentioned, Josh, 00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.880 is that in a stress response and in relation to the hormonal pathway, 00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:21.880 we've talked so much about estrogen, but how do we become, again, so estrogen-dominant 00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:24.880 and so progesterone-deficient, and I think that's a huge point. 00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:30.880 In a stress reaction, the body's going to almost bypass the production of progesterone 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:39.880 or use that for the production of cortisol in order to maintain or be able to respond in a sense. 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:45.880 I guess under stress, it's not important that we procreate or that we go to the bathroom, 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:48.880 whatever the case may be, or digest our foods or whatever it is. 00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:53.880 The more important thing is that we have enough cortisol on hand to keep the brain working 00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:56.880 and everything else, our main organs, functioning. 00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:05.880 So I think when it comes to progesterone, what is the role that progesterone plays with estrogen? 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.880 I mean, they clearly work together. 00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:17.880 Yeah, the stress will, if you just look at the protein that they call the estrogen receptor 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:26.880 and the progesterone receptor, each one acts outside of that system, but those are useful places 00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.880 to focus your attention. 00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:35.880 Stress activates the estrogen receptor, and estrogen activates 00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:39.880 and maintains the estrogen receptor in most systems. 00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:51.880 But once the estrogen is acting, that turns on the cell's production of the progesterone receptor 00:55:51.880 --> 00:56:02.880 that binds progesterone, and when progesterone is available and fills that protein receptor, 00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:06.880 that destroys the estrogen receptor. 00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:13.880 So progesterone is an anti-estrogen in a very absolute sense. 00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:16.880 It knocks out the protein that keeps it in the cell. 00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:26.880 It knocks out the sulfatase and glucuronidase enzymes that allow it to condense in the cell, 00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:34.880 and it activates positively the enzymes that eliminate estrogen from the cell 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:41.880 and inhibits aromatase, which makes new estrogen and so on. 00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:50.880 So there are seven or eight specific mechanisms by which progesterone neutralizes 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:53.880 and destroys and eliminates estrogen. 00:56:53.880 --> 00:57:00.880 So many people have wanted to say that it synergizes with estrogen, 00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:07.880 but it doesn't really. It destroys estrogen in a very thorough manner. 00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:16.880 But estrogen, if your body can respond, if it has thyroid, vitamin A, and cholesterol, 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:22.880 which are the materials needed to convert cholesterol to progesterone, 00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:29.880 given an estrogen stimulation, your body will make a massive amount of progesterone, 00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:36.880 get rid of the estrogen, and go on to differentiate the functioning, for example, 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:42.880 of the breast and the uterus for lactation and pregnancy. 00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:51.880 And the progesterone counters the effect on all of the peripheral effects. 00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:59.880 For example, estrogen activates the adrenal cortex to produce aldosterone and cortisol, 00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:05.880 and progesterone not only counteracts that effect in the adrenal gland, 00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:15.880 but even if you're injected with aldosterone and cortisol, if you have adequate progesterone, 00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:20.880 the peripheral effects of those hormones are blocked. 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:27.880 Progesterone will serve in place of cortisol or aldosterone if you don't have either of those 00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:35.880 because the adrenals are removed, so it will let the kidneys function properly 00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:40.880 and take care of most inflammations and so on. 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:45.880 But if you have an excess of aldosterone and cortisol, 00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:50.880 progesterone also prevents the toxic effects of those hormones 00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:54.880 the way it protects against toxic effects of estrogen. 00:58:54.880 --> 00:59:00.880 So progesterone fields in for a deficiency of many hormones 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.880 and protects against an excess of those same hormones. 00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:06.880 Right. Right. 00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:10.880 And you talk about, too, what role does it play with magnesium? 00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:15.880 You talk about it a lot in your book, what's it called, 00:59:15.880 --> 00:59:19.880 the "Fourth Molecular Progesterone" book that you've written. 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:21.880 That's great. I want to get it. 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:24.880 Can you elaborate on its role with magnesium? 00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:27.880 Well, partly. 00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:34.880 Jerry Aikawa was a magnesium specialist who wrote at least one good book on magnesium. 00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:42.880 He showed that the cell which needs magnesium for many functions, 00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:49.880 but, for example, ATP is stabilized in the presence of magnesium, 00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:54.880 and if magnesium is deficient, you're energy deficient, 00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:58.880 and that contributes to cell swelling. 00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:04.880 If the mast cell is magnesium deficient, it can't retain histamine 01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:08.880 and serotonin and other inflammatory things. 01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:16.880 And so whatever holds magnesium inside the cell prevents inflammation 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:20.880 and allows differentiation and good function. 01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:25.880 And Jerry Aikawa showed that thyroid, the T3 especially, 01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:31.880 is what is needed by the cell to retain magnesium. 01:00:31.880 --> 01:00:40.880 And I think the production of ATP and carbon dioxide 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:47.880 is the mechanism by which the thyroid regulates the retention of magnesium. 01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:55.880 And the reduction of histamine, serotonin, 01:00:55.880 --> 01:01:00.880 and other inflammatory things by magnesium 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:06.880 and its association with high-energy cell metabolism 01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:10.880 and production of carbon dioxide 01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:17.880 antagonize the improper actions of calcium. 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:25.880 When the cell is inflamed or de-energized in the absence of thyroid and magnesium, 01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:31.880 it takes up calcium, and the reason it takes it up is partly because 01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:37.880 the calcium should be held in suspension in the blood 01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:43.880 as an ion combined with carbon dioxide or bicarbonate. 01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:49.880 If you lose the bicarbonate, then the calcium goes into the cell 01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:53.880 and keeps it in an excited, inflamed state. 01:01:53.880 --> 01:02:03.880 And so the proper condition of the calcium goes with the availability of magnesium, 01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:10.880 and the magnesium keeps the platelet as well as the mast cell from degranulating 01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:17.880 and putting out serotonin and other inflammatory and clot-promoting agents. 01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:22.880 Right. The name of his book is "Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine" 01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:25.880 and I have it in front of me, but it's a great book. 01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:30.880 It looks like a small book, but it's packed, packed with great info. 01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:33.880 Mine is basically -- I should have just dipped it in red ink, 01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:37.880 but it's a great book and it talks about the benefits of progesterone 01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:43.880 and how it works to basically restrain blood clotting and help balance blood sugar 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.880 and help with kidney function and downregulate histamine. 01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:48.880 So it's got a lot of different functions in the body, 01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:51.880 so it's definitely worth reading whether you're in the industry or not. 01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.880 If you have progesterone in your body, you should be reading it. 01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:58.880 That's my opinion on it. 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:01.880 You know, our last chat we talked a lot about the thyroid. 01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:07.880 Can you -- and you kind of mentioned a little bit in how estrogen in itself, 01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:10.880 I guess we could say downregulates the thyroid 01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:15.880 and we could say that progesterone would stimulate the thyroid, 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:21.880 but you talked about how we also need vitamin A and cholesterol to produce progesterone. 01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:26.880 Without medications, how one might do that with nutrition? 01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:30.880 And I'm not looking for, you know, of course we don't have to have the plan, 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:33.880 just some basic recommendations. 01:03:33.880 --> 01:03:43.880 The factor of polyunsaturated fat, in the last 50 years, 01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:48.880 this has been probably the main thing interfering with thyroid function, 01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:58.880 and you can block that very quickly with coconut oil because of the quick availability 01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.880 of the short and medium chain saturated fats. 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:14.880 They compete against the polyunsaturated fats for producing oxygen in the mitochondria. 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:19.880 The short chain saturated fats are anti-inflammatory 01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:23.880 and have many indirect helpful functions, 01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:29.880 but they provide energy so quickly that they block many of the actions 01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:33.880 of the polyunsaturated fats. 01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:40.880 And the thyroid and the mitochondrial energy production are constantly 01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:45.880 under a breaking influence of the polyunsaturated fats. 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:51.880 When you're under stress, you free fatty acids to circulate, 01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:56.880 so every time you're under stress, your thyroid function is blocked a little bit 01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:01.880 and your cellular ability to use sugar is blocked a little bit. 01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:08.880 Coconut oil gives you a temporary reprieve while it's being digested 01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:11.880 for a couple hours after eating it. 01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:18.880 It interferes with that blocking system of the polyunsaturated fats. 01:05:18.880 --> 01:05:23.880 Sugar does the same thing, only it doesn't have the same competitive power 01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:28.880 against the fatty acids. 01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:38.880 And when you're having enough sugar and saturated fatty acids to interrupt 01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:44.880 the anti-metabolic effect of the polyunsaturated fats, 01:05:44.880 --> 01:05:49.880 your blood sugar is stable and more available to be used 01:05:49.880 --> 01:05:52.880 and stored in the liver. 01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:58.880 And the liver senses the availability of fuel, especially glucose, 01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:02.880 to govern your thyroid function. 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:09.880 And the way it does that is local rather than acting through your pituitary 01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:11.880 or thyroid gland. 01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:17.880 Your thyroid gland puts out about three parts of thyroxine for every part 01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:19.880 of active T3 hormone. 01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:25.880 And your liver, when it senses that you have enough fuel as glucose 01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:33.880 or short fatty acids, will allow the thyroxine to be turned 01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:44.880 into the active T3 and will provide a very high and adequate thyroid hormone. 01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:52.880 The thyroid gland itself directly contributes about 30% of the active stuff. 01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:58.880 So it takes a little while for a change in the thyroid gland to affect 01:06:58.880 --> 01:07:04.880 the metabolism where the liver is instantly monitoring the amount of fuel 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:06.880 and adjusting accordingly. 01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:12.880 So as long as your liver has enough glucose stored as glycogen to keep 01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:17.880 your blood sugar steady for eight hours or so, 01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:21.880 your metabolic rate will stay the same. 01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:26.880 As soon as your liver runs out of glucose, if you're not getting a steady 01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:34.880 supply from your food, then your T3 production falls immediately 01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:37.880 by about 60% or 70%. 01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:46.880 And then your thyroid and pituitary sense those changes and will adjust 01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:51.880 slightly later than your liver. 01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:56.880 So the one reason I like Ray's philosophy, guys, is it's super unconventional, 01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:58.880 but it's really how the body works. 01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:03.880 And the thing about the thyroid is if you take away the foods that are 01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:07.880 creating inflammation and creating that stress response that he's talked 01:08:07.880 --> 01:08:10.880 about, like the cortisol, which down-regulates the thyroid, 01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:15.880 and you eat the foods that allow for the conversion of thyroid and allow 01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:18.880 for the liver to work properly, and a lot of them, of course, 01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:20.880 are anti-inflammatory proteins. 01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:22.880 You know, maybe we'll do some shows on that. 01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:26.880 But eating the right types of vegetables, obviously you've seen on his site, 01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:28.880 he advocates sugar. 01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:32.880 So it's a huge part, along with everything else, the coconut oil, 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:36.880 in regards to stimulating the thyroid and pushing you, you know, 01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:38.880 into that anti-inflammatory state. 01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:41.880 So it can be done with food. 01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:46.880 It doesn't always have to be herbs, plant-based supplements, 01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:47.880 and things like that. 01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:52.880 So I think that's an important thing to take away. 01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:55.880 I think we have a couple more questions, and then we'll just kind of maybe 01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:58.880 take some calls if we have them and then kind of wrap it up. 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.880 I actually kind of want to ask or touch on or have Ray kind of explain, you know, 01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:08.880 there's a lot of women out there who are, you know, upon menopause, 01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:14.880 went to the doctor and got put on different HRT, you know, hormone therapy, 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.880 or women who are on the pill. 01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:21.880 Can you kind of talk about that a little bit and what some alternative methods 01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:27.880 may be for women who want to protect themselves against these estrogens 01:09:27.880 --> 01:09:31.880 or increased estrogens or even, you know, young women on the pill 01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:36.880 who are altering their hormonal balances through being on the pill? 01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:37.880 What would you-- 01:09:37.880 --> 01:09:45.880 The consumption of the menopausal hormones decreased drastically 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:50.880 after the 2002 Women's Health Initiative results came out, 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:57.880 showing that estrogen causes strokes and heart attacks and dementia and cancer, 01:09:57.880 --> 01:10:01.880 the things that they were selling it to prevent. 01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:07.880 But the industry always comes back with propaganda pieces 01:10:07.880 --> 01:10:14.880 in all the medical journals, and so a lot of women are again being indoctrinated 01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:15.880 to take it. 01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:21.880 The short-term benefit is that it's very much like cocaine. 01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:23.880 It peps you up. 01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:29.880 But if a person wants to withdraw from it, 01:10:29.880 --> 01:10:33.880 there's often a time of depression and low energy, 01:10:33.880 --> 01:10:39.880 and while adjusting the thyroid and progesterone and diet functions, 01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:46.880 sometimes it just helps to supplement coffee to keep the mental energy up. 01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:56.880 And the hot flashes are really--it's a complex set of reactions, 01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:03.880 but I experienced hot flashes when I traveled to Mexico 01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:11.880 and was exerting too much too fast for not being adapted to the altitude, 01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:18.880 and every time I would stop and rest I would have a hot flash, 01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:22.880 and that started me looking around, 01:11:22.880 --> 01:11:27.880 and I noticed young women who were working very hard 01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:31.880 were suffering hot flashes in their 20s. 01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:34.880 It isn't just a menopausal thing, 01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:44.880 but it's a stress, adrenaline, cortisol, very complex set of reactions, 01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:51.880 and the simplest, safest way to respond to them is, for example, 01:11:51.880 --> 01:11:56.880 if you have night sweats and hot flashes during the night, 01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:02.880 having a lot of carbohydrate at bedtime will normally be enough to stop them, 01:12:02.880 --> 01:12:08.880 and having a snack of a glass of orange juice and milk several times through the day 01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:11.880 will usually stop them. 01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:18.880 Some salty food to steady the blood sugar and adrenaline 01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:24.880 will very often be all it takes to stop the hot flashing. 01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:28.880 Now, Ray, I just want to clarify something, 01:12:28.880 --> 01:12:33.880 because a lot of people listen and they hear what you're saying, 01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:38.880 and I know what you're saying, but I know some people just hear "high-carbohydrate meal," 01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:43.880 and people are always looking for a way to push someone down, 01:12:43.880 --> 01:12:48.880 and people can run with that and go, "Well, Ray P. advocates eating a high-carbohydrate meal." 01:12:48.880 --> 01:12:53.880 I want to clarify that my perception of what you're saying is 01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:59.880 that you're talking more of the right types of carbohydrates in regards to your tropical fruits, 01:12:59.880 --> 01:13:02.880 your root vegetables, milk and sugar, orange juice. 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:06.880 You're not talking about, you know, pots and pot parts and things like that. 01:13:06.880 --> 01:13:10.880 No, there are many problems with the starchy foods, 01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:17.880 so I'm strongly against all of the grainy starches in particular. 01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:23.880 You're going to have to eat starch just to get by. 01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:28.880 It should be cooked for maybe 40 minutes as a minimum 01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:33.880 and then eaten with cream, butter, or coconut oil, 01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:40.880 because the starch grains very easily find their way into the bloodstream, 01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:48.880 and other body fluids in the bloodstream, they clog small arterioles 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:56.880 and cause systemic injury chronically. 01:13:56.880 --> 01:14:02.880 They've demonstrated that in mice as well as people. 01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:06.880 Cooking the starch much more than normal 01:14:06.880 --> 01:14:09.880 and eating it with quite a bit of fat is protective, 01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:18.880 but still people keep sending me studies showing that in a study of five weeks or so, 01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:26.880 they argue that there's a great benefit from feeding a high starch diet rather than a high sugar diet. 01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:29.880 But when you look at the long-range effects, 01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:38.880 if they continued, you'd see a super obese, stressed, older animal 01:14:38.880 --> 01:14:42.880 if it lived on that same high starch diet, 01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:48.880 where the sugar helps to regulate the adrenal and the thyroid hormones 01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:54.880 and to moderate the insulin and other adaptive hormones. 01:14:54.880 --> 01:15:04.880 And I don't advocate eating, although I think a person should have at least 80 to 100 grams of good protein every day, 01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:12.880 more is okay, but it's important not to eat too much protein by itself. 01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:19.880 I had the experience of almost fainting after eating just eggs for breakfast 01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:24.880 when I was in a hurry in a cold climate, 01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:30.880 and I heard that it was fairly common for women on a diet, 01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:34.880 if they just ate eggs, to faint about an hour later 01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:42.880 because the egg protein is very high quality and stimulates insulin secretion, 01:15:42.880 --> 01:15:48.880 which lowers the blood sugar, and that calls for a very intense cortisol reaction, 01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:54.880 and it often can produce a fainting reaction, 01:15:54.880 --> 01:16:00.880 but it always produces the insulin cortisol reaction, 01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:07.880 which has chronic cumulative effects, aging your brain cells and immune system and so on. 01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:16.880 So it's very important to not burn the protein for energy. 01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:23.880 You want the protein to be used as protein, not as a substitute for sugar and fat. 01:16:23.880 --> 01:16:29.880 Yes, just like the paleo diet. 01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:33.880 I love to do a show on macro and micronutrients, 01:16:33.880 --> 01:16:38.880 but I just wanted to clarify that because I know some people could easily take that out of context. 01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:43.880 The one thing we found that works great with us and a lot of our clients 01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:48.880 when it comes to regulating body temperature and downregulating adrenaline, 01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:53.880 is that the bed is dairy and sugar. 01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:55.880 It's with gelatin as well. 01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:59.880 It's worked great to help downregulate adrenaline and help with people's sleep patterns. 01:16:59.880 --> 01:17:01.880 And of course, there's many other pieces to the puzzle, 01:17:01.880 --> 01:17:07.880 but it's one thing we found that's definitely helped. 01:17:07.880 --> 01:17:11.880 But we'll do a show at some point, I guess, if you don't mind, 01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:16.880 and we can talk a lot about macro and micronutrients. 01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:22.880 When it comes to HRT, I know you do recommend taking progesterone, 01:17:22.880 --> 01:17:25.880 and there are many types of progesterone. 01:17:25.880 --> 01:17:27.880 Can you maybe elaborate a little bit on-- 01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.880 I know you like yours that's suspended in vitamin E, 01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:36.880 and then a lot of people say, "Well, I do these drops or I take the cream." 01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:39.880 What's the major difference between these? 01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:48.880 For about 40 years I've been telling people that I don't believe in hormone replacement therapy 01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:58.880 because I've seen so many people-- dementia, epilepsy, rheumatoid arthritis, 01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:04.880 other types of arthritis, totally disabling diseases-- 01:18:04.880 --> 01:18:10.880 I've seen recover overnight from one dose of progesterone. 01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:18.880 And most of these people, I've seen them 10, 20, 30 years later, 01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:25.880 and they still haven't had a recurrence of that terrible problem. 01:18:25.880 --> 01:18:32.880 So I think of progesterone, if it doesn't work within a week, 01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:37.880 something else should be fixed. 01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:43.880 So I advocate the diet first, thyroid next, 01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:49.880 and then you probably-- if your cholesterol is okay and you're eating right 01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:53.880 and your thyroid is working, then you don't need progesterone. 01:18:53.880 --> 01:19:01.880 But for an emergency, the things I do recommend it for are epilepsy, 01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:15.880 other movement disorders, MS, dementia, all types of mental impairments, 01:19:15.880 --> 01:19:25.880 and arthritis of all sorts, any very acute migraine. 01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:31.880 It'll usually stop a migraine if you have some backup of thyroid function. 01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:38.880 It'll stop a migraine sometimes in two minutes with a big dose. 01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:44.880 So for any disabling acute thing-- for example, 01:19:44.880 --> 01:19:50.880 there are studies now being done on brain trauma patients. 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:55.880 If you can get the progesterone to them in the first day, 01:19:55.880 --> 01:20:00.880 they practically all recover from before they would have practically all died. 01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:02.880 Right. 01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:05.880 So I think it's important for the listeners because, you know, 01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:09.880 Ray has his thoughts on gelatin and sugar and progesterone and estrogen and stress 01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:10.880 and all these foods. 01:20:10.880 --> 01:20:12.880 The thing is, it's all individualized. 01:20:12.880 --> 01:20:14.880 Not every single person needs progesterone. 01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:17.880 There's only certain times you need it. 01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:22.880 So, you know, try the nutrition first, which is--nutrition is really specific, 01:20:22.880 --> 01:20:26.880 and like I said, we work with people based on our interpretations of his work. 01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:30.880 Try that first to make sure--to see if you can get the thyroid working 01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:32.880 and downregulate stress. 01:20:32.880 --> 01:20:35.880 And then, you know, last ditch, try the progesterone. 01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:39.880 But it can be used, like you said, for specific disorders and insomnia 01:20:39.880 --> 01:20:42.880 to definitely help people. 01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:45.880 I--you know, we've gone about an hour and 20 minutes. 01:20:45.880 --> 01:20:47.880 I don't really have any more questions. 01:20:47.880 --> 01:20:50.880 Of course, you know, I would consider it for hours and hours and hours 01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:52.880 and talk about this stuff. 01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:56.880 But like I said, guys, Ray's got tons of articles on his website on estrogen 01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:58.880 and progesterone. 01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:00.880 His book on progesterone is great. 01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:04.880 "From PMS to Menopause" is probably one of my favorite books that he's written. 01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:06.880 It's a great book you can look into. 01:21:06.880 --> 01:21:10.880 Jeannie, do you have any more questions for Ray? 01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:12.880 I don't at this time, no. 01:21:12.880 --> 01:21:15.880 I think we've gotten a lot of great information. 01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:21.880 Yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot for people to kind of digest. 01:21:21.880 --> 01:21:28.880 And there's a lot more to it than even what we covered. 01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:31.880 You know, so definitely check out his website. 01:21:31.880 --> 01:21:33.880 Do you have anything else you might want to add, Ray? 01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:38.880 You had sent a question about Barberg's theory of cancer. 01:21:38.880 --> 01:21:43.880 And that's something that lots of people are starting to talk about again. 01:21:43.880 --> 01:21:50.880 After he was ridiculed by most doctors in the United States for about 30 or 40 years, 01:21:50.880 --> 01:21:53.880 people are now starting to talk about him again. 01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:57.880 But they're invariably misinterpreting him. 01:21:57.880 --> 01:22:00.880 They haven't read what he really said. 01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:06.880 And they're thinking that you should go on a sugar-free diet 01:22:06.880 --> 01:22:13.880 or something that had really nothing to do with what Barberg was talking about. 01:22:13.880 --> 01:22:24.880 What he said was that the respiratory apparatus, the mitochondrion, is impaired and causes cancer. 01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:35.880 And with the impaired mitochondrion, the cell can't turn off its use of glucose. 01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:43.880 He didn't say that it stops its use of body tissues. 01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:51.880 The cancer goes on burning the body's protein and fat stores at a tremendous rate. 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:57.880 And if you give it sugar, you can slow down the destruction of the body. 01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:05.880 But what he emphasized was that the sugar is being converted to lactic acid 01:23:05.880 --> 01:23:11.880 even when there's a good supply of it in the body. 01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:18.880 And what you want to do is prevent the destruction of the body by the tumor. 01:23:18.880 --> 01:23:26.880 And lactic acid happens to turn on all of the stress reactions, inflammatory mediators, 01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:32.880 promoting the spread of cancer and the survival of cancer 01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:39.880 by promoting the conversion of the body into fuel for the cancer. 01:23:39.880 --> 01:23:51.880 So the sugar-free diet that a lot of people are now blaming on Barberg doesn't really fit with what he did. 01:23:51.880 --> 01:24:03.880 Right, and he's referring to Warburg's theory on cancer. 01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:09.880 So it's about our body's incorrect use of sugar in a sense. 01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:13.880 And when you talk about CO2 and all these different things and oxygen, 01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:18.880 I guess we could start saying it's more -- estrogen even has more of an effect on that 01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:26.880 because of how it pulls oxygen from the tissues and even from our organs. 01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:34.880 Yeah, the instantaneous effect of either estrogen or unsaturated fatty acids 01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:43.880 is to imitate the Warburg effect of lacking the Pasteur effect, 01:24:43.880 --> 01:24:47.880 which is for oxygen to turn off lactic acid. 01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:52.880 In the presence of high estrogen and high polyunsaturated fats, 01:24:52.880 --> 01:25:02.880 we'll make lactic acid and not be able to use the energy oxidatively. 01:25:02.880 --> 01:25:10.880 And correct me if I'm wrong, that he's actually saying or you're saying it's actually the lack of sugar 01:25:10.880 --> 01:25:15.880 that's creating the excess estrogen or it's the poofers that are getting sugar into the cell 01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:18.880 that's creating the cancer. 01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:19.880 It's not too much sugar. 01:25:19.880 --> 01:25:21.880 It's actually not enough. 01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:25.880 Yeah, the cancer is eating everything at a high rate, 01:25:25.880 --> 01:25:31.880 including wasting the sugar by turning it to lactic acid, which burdens the whole system. 01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:38.880 And that turns on the stress system. 01:25:38.880 --> 01:25:40.880 Right. 01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:41.880 It's all great stuff, guys. 01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:46.880 Like I said, his approach in theory is definitely against the grain, but it works and it makes sense. 01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:50.880 The way I explain it to people, I don't know, this is what I say, 01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:53.880 is you read his stuff, you've got to find a little bit in this article and that article, 01:25:53.880 --> 01:25:56.880 kind of like where's Waldo, and intertwine it together. 01:25:56.880 --> 01:26:01.880 And if you can do that, you'll have a great philosophy. 01:26:01.880 --> 01:26:05.880 So anything else you want to add or any other questions, Jeannie? 01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:12.880 I'm pretty much -- I think I've got all my questions answered, I'm sure. 01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:15.880 Yeah, I think we touched on everything. 01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:17.880 Yeah. 01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:22.880 So unless you have anything else to add, Ray, we really appreciate you once again coming on. 01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:25.880 We've had tons of listeners, thousands of listeners, 01:26:25.880 --> 01:26:31.880 and people are really taking in what you say and honestly appreciating it. 01:26:31.880 --> 01:26:38.880 So everyone says thank you for coming out each month and sharing your knowledge. 01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:40.880 Okay. 01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:42.880 Yeah, I've been getting a lot of e-mails, 01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:50.880 but I won't even be able to fill book orders for a few weeks because we've got to get caught up. 01:26:50.880 --> 01:26:52.880 Right. 01:26:52.880 --> 01:26:56.880 Well, everyone definitely appreciates that, 01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:01.880 and I gave everyone a little introduction speech at the beginning in regards to that, 01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:07.880 because everyone does value their time, and I don't want people to take advantage of your time. 01:27:07.880 --> 01:27:09.880 Okay. 01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:11.880 So I gave them a little speech. 01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:16.880 But we definitely appreciate it, and if you don't have anything to add, 01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:19.880 we'd like to say thanks and have a wonderful day. 01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:21.880 Okay, thank you. 01:27:21.880 --> 01:27:22.880 Bye, Ray. 01:27:22.880 --> 01:27:23.880 Bye-bye. 01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:24.880 Bye-bye. 01:27:24.880 --> 01:27:27.880 Bye-bye. 01:27:27.880 --> 01:27:33.880 So, guys, once again, Ray P., check out his website, R-A-Y-P-E-A-T-E. 01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:35.880 Lots of great articles and books. 01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:38.880 If you're starting out, books are probably easier to read than the articles, 01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:40.880 but just grab one and just start reading. 01:27:40.880 --> 01:27:41.880 Just jump in. 01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:45.880 It's not going to make sense, but just keep reading and reading the articles and connect the dots. 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:47.880 It takes years. 01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:50.880 This stuff is technical, but it's just great stuff. 01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:53.880 Didn't take callers, didn't really feel like taking callers. 01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:58.880 You know, as you always see, it kind of frustrates me, so I just said, "Hey, I'm not going to take them. 01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:01.880 I'd rather just listen to Ray talk and educate us all." 01:28:01.880 --> 01:28:05.880 If you've got questions, like I said, you can contact Ray. 01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:10.880 Please, if you -- even send him a dollar, I don't care what it is, $10, $100, $500, 01:28:10.880 --> 01:28:13.880 whatever you want to send him, please send him something, not just to send it to him, 01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:18.880 but if you're asking him questions via e-mail, and I know a lot of you have, he'll just answer them. 01:28:18.880 --> 01:28:20.880 You know, he's a great guy. 01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:23.880 So please, you know, compensate him for your time. 01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:27.880 And it's not the subtle answer, but it takes a lot of time sometimes to answer all these questions. 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:30.880 Oh, I know. 01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:35.880 So thanks, everyone, for tuning in. 01:28:35.880 --> 01:28:36.880 Check back. 01:28:36.880 --> 01:28:42.880 We'll have our next show posted soon in regards to the month of April in regards to Ray's show. 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:48.880 Next week we're actually going to be doing a show Tuesday at 1 o'clock Pacific Coast time. 01:28:48.880 --> 01:28:52.880 A gentleman named Matt Stone, he's got a website and blog out there. 01:28:52.880 --> 01:28:55.880 You can look him up on Facebook as well. 01:28:55.880 --> 01:29:01.880 He contacted us and wanted to do a show, the three of us, more like a conversation type show in regards to, 01:29:01.880 --> 01:29:09.880 you know, health, weight loss, thyroid, liver, you know, all that stuff out there and what's worked 01:29:09.880 --> 01:29:15.880 and what hasn't worked in regards to Ray Peat's philosophy in Brodo Barnes because he's been using it for years. 01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:21.880 So it's going to be a conversational show, I guess more layman's terms of Ray's philosophies. 01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:27.880 You know, what are anti-inflammatory proteins and why use gelatin, why we're advocating sugar, 01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:29.880 and why is it important to use temperature and pulse. 01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:31.880 So check it out. 01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:36.880 Obviously it's a free show, and it'll just be the three of us chatting in. 01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:39.880 And we'll be taking callers. 01:29:39.880 --> 01:29:41.880 So that's all I have to say. 01:29:41.880 --> 01:29:43.880 I think I produced more estrogen because I talk fast. 01:29:43.880 --> 01:29:47.880 That's my correlation from today's show. 01:29:47.880 --> 01:29:48.880 All right. 01:29:48.880 --> 01:29:49.880 I'm done. 01:29:49.880 --> 01:29:51.880 Thanks, guys, for joining us. 01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:52.880 All right. 01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:53.880 We'll see you guys later. 01:29:53.880 --> 01:29:57.880 Need one more reason why your Safeway store is just better? 01:29:57.880 --> 01:30:00.880 How about free Cuisinart Classic Cutlery or Elite Flatware? 01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:01.880 That's right. 01:30:01.880 --> 01:30:06.880 For every $10 you spend, earn a free stamp saver you can redeem for Cuisinart items. 01:30:06.880 --> 01:30:12.880 Once you've collected between 30 and 60 stamps, you can start shopping for a variety of Cuisinart cutlery or flatware, 01:30:12.880 --> 01:30:14.880 available at the in-store display. 01:30:14.880 --> 01:30:16.880 Present your items and stamp saver at checkout. 01:30:16.880 --> 01:30:17.880 It's simple. 01:30:17.880 --> 01:30:21.880 Spend $10, get your free stamp saver, start collecting. 01:30:21.880 --> 01:30:23.880 Safeway, it's just better.