WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.000 and T5. 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:02.000 The store has solutions for all your security needs. 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.720 It's open Monday through Saturday, 9am to 5pm. 00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:10.880 More information available at tss707.com or 923-2363. 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:15.360 Support for Redwood Community Radio comes from the Blue Star Gas, located at Redwood 00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:17.880 Drive at Alder Point Road. 00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:21.680 Blue Star Gas provides propane sales and service throughout Southern Humboldt, Northern Mendocino 00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:23.320 and Trinity Counties. 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:25.920 Locally owned and independent since 1938. 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.200 More information online at bluestargas.com. 00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:32.840 Seven o'clock, stay tuned, Big Herb Doctor Show coming up. 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:34.480 We're getting it all set up here in the studio. 00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:35.480 It's going to be great. 00:00:35.480 --> 00:00:40.080 Support for KMUG comes from listeners like you and from Chautauqua Natural Foods. 00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:45.960 Locally owned for over 25 years, they specialize in local and organic produce, natural groceries, 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:49.520 nutritional supplements and body care products. 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.840 Chautauqua Natural Foods is open Monday through Saturday, 9am to 7pm. 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:55.920 Sunday 10am to 5pm, just off the town square in Garberville. 00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:04.320 More information online at facebook.com/chautauquanaturals. 00:01:04.320 --> 00:01:08.360 And support for KMUG comes from the Humboldt County Department of Health and Human Services, 00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:10.640 seeking foster families throughout the Humboldt County region. 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:13.760 Do you have space in your life to make room for a child? 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:18.120 Foster children in your community need homes and stipends are available. 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.320 You can get more information on becoming a foster family by calling 707-499-3410. 00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:28.360 Alright, here we go, stay tuned, Herb Doctor coming up. 00:01:28.360 --> 00:01:30.940 (upbeat music) 00:01:30.940 --> 00:01:43.840 (gentle music) 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.420 (gentle music) 00:01:46.420 --> 00:01:49.000 (gentle music) 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.580 (gentle music) 00:01:51.580 --> 00:02:01.580 (gentle music) 00:02:01.580 --> 00:02:17.540 (gentle music) 00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:20.120 (gentle music) 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:25.960 (gentle music) 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:33.960 (gentle music) 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:44.740 - Well, very welcome to you all listening 00:02:44.740 --> 00:02:45.860 to Ask Your Herb Doctor. 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:47.260 My name's Andrew Murray. 00:02:47.260 --> 00:02:49.180 - My name's Sarah Johannison Murray. 00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:51.300 - We both trained in England and graduated there 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:53.100 with a degree in herbal medicine 00:02:53.100 --> 00:02:55.460 and clients consult with us regarding their health issues 00:02:55.460 --> 00:02:57.980 and we recommend personalized advice in nutrition, 00:02:57.980 --> 00:03:00.340 supplements, herbs, diet and lifestyle. 00:03:00.340 --> 00:03:03.700 And we can be reached toll free 1-888-WBM-HERB 00:03:03.700 --> 00:03:07.600 or on www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com. 00:03:07.600 --> 00:03:11.180 So a little departure from the last few years 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:14.540 and definitely from Dr. Peat's altruistic 00:03:14.540 --> 00:03:17.000 and giving all of his time and his energy 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.460 and his research. 00:03:18.460 --> 00:03:21.180 I'm very excited to show you that tonight 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:23.340 we are hosting two filmmakers, 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:25.660 Brad Abrahams and Jeremy Stewart, 00:03:25.660 --> 00:03:28.140 who are producing a documentary film 00:03:28.140 --> 00:03:30.580 called "On the Back of a Tiger." 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:32.980 They've interviewed eight maverick scientists, 00:03:32.980 --> 00:03:34.660 including Dr. Ray Peat, 00:03:34.660 --> 00:03:37.020 who weave an alternate story of life 00:03:37.020 --> 00:03:40.220 from the molecular level to consciousness and perception, 00:03:40.220 --> 00:03:42.380 challenging the mainstream medical dogma 00:03:42.380 --> 00:03:44.140 with scientific research, 00:03:44.140 --> 00:03:47.040 illuminating radical new ways of understanding disease 00:03:47.040 --> 00:03:48.440 and its treatment. 00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:51.040 I welcome Brad and Jeremy to "Ask Your Herb Doctor." 00:03:51.040 --> 00:03:53.200 Are you guys with us? 00:03:53.200 --> 00:03:54.160 - Yes, we are. - Yes. 00:03:54.160 --> 00:03:56.840 - Okay. - Great intro. 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:58.080 Sums it up nicely. 00:03:58.080 --> 00:03:58.920 - Excellent. 00:03:58.920 --> 00:04:00.160 Okay. 00:04:00.160 --> 00:04:02.480 - Welcome Dr. Peat to the show. 00:04:02.480 --> 00:04:03.360 - Yeah, hello. 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:04.640 - Oh, hi Dr. Peat. 00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:08.520 - Seems like we have a threesome on the airwaves. 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:09.600 - Oh, great. 00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:14.120 - Okay, so basically we've been very fortunate 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:16.840 to interview you, Dr. Peat, for a number of years now. 00:04:16.840 --> 00:04:19.800 And you frequently mention names during your discourses, 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.800 and they're usually eminent scientists 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:23.600 and groundbreaking alternative researchers 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:25.960 whose view of mainstream medicine is alternative 00:04:25.960 --> 00:04:28.440 to the dogma, if not controversial. 00:04:28.440 --> 00:04:31.640 Most people view the doctor as an all-knowing entity, 00:04:31.640 --> 00:04:33.640 but many doctors fail to read the research 00:04:33.640 --> 00:04:35.920 that points to anything other than the dogma, 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.560 which is perpetuated by Big Pharma. 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.840 Up until the time that I just realized 00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:43.240 that Dr. Peat was gonna be with us a couple of minutes ago, 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.440 I had written a small outline for Brad and Jeremy, 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:50.840 apparently who've been exhaustively traveling Europe 00:04:50.840 --> 00:04:53.560 in the year 2014 to track down 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:55.840 these eight principal scientists 00:04:55.840 --> 00:04:57.880 who they did manage to get one, two, 00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:00.280 and three day interviews with, I think. 00:05:00.280 --> 00:05:05.280 So I wanted to cover the timeline 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:07.880 with which you started interviewing these scientists, 00:05:07.880 --> 00:05:11.880 starting with Dr. May Wan Ho, and give each of you, 00:05:11.880 --> 00:05:13.200 I don't quite know how we're gonna work this 00:05:13.200 --> 00:05:16.280 with both of you on the show. 00:05:16.280 --> 00:05:18.520 I think one person will do one and the other will do another, 00:05:18.520 --> 00:05:20.600 or you can both interject, and Dr. Ray, Peat, you too, 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.840 at the same time, you can all cut in. 00:05:23.840 --> 00:05:27.000 I wanted to ask both of you two, though, Jeremy, first, 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.680 like I always have done with Dr. Peat, 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:29.880 if you would just give an outline 00:05:29.880 --> 00:05:32.440 of your professional and academic backgrounds, 00:05:32.440 --> 00:05:34.480 perhaps starting with you, Brad. 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.120 - Sure, well, my background and Jeremy's are quite similar, 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:40.040 so it could cover both of us. 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:44.400 We both went to film school originally, 00:05:44.400 --> 00:05:48.560 and very soon after graduating, 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:52.520 entered the advertising and commercial production world 00:05:52.520 --> 00:05:57.120 where we were trapped for many years, 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:00.920 pining away, trying to figure out a way 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:05.080 to work on projects that were more meaningful to us 00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:10.080 and to other people, and you just can't do that 00:06:10.080 --> 00:06:11.200 with a full-time job. 00:06:11.200 --> 00:06:12.960 It takes up so much of your energy, 00:06:12.960 --> 00:06:17.960 creatively and physically, that we ended up quitting, 00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:22.240 still working freelance for funds, 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:25.080 but spending more and more of our time now 00:06:25.080 --> 00:06:26.400 working on projects like these, 00:06:26.400 --> 00:06:29.840 and we've focused specifically on this project now 00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:31.560 for the last year or so. 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.120 - Have you had any background reasons 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.000 for pursuing this kind of health topic, 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:40.800 medical establishment approach to disease? 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.800 Is anything pertinent in either of you 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.840 that has kind of spurred this? 00:06:44.840 --> 00:06:47.720 - Yeah, you can go ahead, Jeremy. 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:52.480 - We both, I think, are sort of sensitive, 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:53.880 fragile people in that way, 00:06:53.880 --> 00:06:58.880 like as far as always being more aware 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:04.040 of what we eat and sensitive to the environment. 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.160 You know, some people are maybe more hypothyroid than others, 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:09.720 as Ray might say. 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:15.480 And so I think we both had similar interests. 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.360 That's how we became friends in the first place 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:22.440 while working together, seeing that reading about, 00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:25.600 I think, on World's Healthiest Foods 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.200 was when we first had our first conversation 00:07:28.200 --> 00:07:30.200 and realized that we had a lot in common. 00:07:30.200 --> 00:07:34.880 But seeing health problems in friends and family 00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:38.640 who couldn't find solutions, 00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:42.440 I think that's always been a background 00:07:42.440 --> 00:07:44.360 and having an interest in science. 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:48.840 - Yeah, it was originally for myself 00:07:48.840 --> 00:07:52.400 just things like really bad digestion, allergies, fatigue, 00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:54.840 and a lot of it, I think, came with overworking 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:58.720 and just the confines of the modern world. 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:03.120 But more recently, it's been seeing deteriorating health 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.840 of family and friends, and in particular, 00:08:06.840 --> 00:08:09.240 my father, who's been, in the last couple years, 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:11.400 had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. 00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:13.840 And I was already skeptical of the establishment, 00:08:13.840 --> 00:08:18.160 medical establishment, but just seeing the bad science 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:23.160 and really suspect motives, particularly with this disease, 00:08:24.080 --> 00:08:26.680 really spurred a sense of urgency, 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.200 creating a project like this. 00:08:29.200 --> 00:08:30.040 - Okay. 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:35.200 - And Jeremy and Brad, I was wondering, 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.080 how did you first find out about Dr. Peat? 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:38.800 Because I know you wanted this film, 00:08:38.800 --> 00:08:40.360 and initially, you were thinking this film 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.200 was going to be focused solely on Dr. Ray Peat. 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:45.160 How did you first hear about Dr. Peat? 00:08:45.160 --> 00:08:51.280 - Well, I was introduced to him by Brad. 00:08:51.280 --> 00:08:55.640 - By Brad, you found him through Danny Roddy? 00:08:55.640 --> 00:08:56.960 - Yeah, originally, Danny Roddy. 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.640 I had been on the roller coaster of diets 00:09:01.640 --> 00:09:07.800 and in need of recovery and had found Danny's site 00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:12.520 that had mentioned Dr. Peat and just found it 00:09:12.520 --> 00:09:17.440 so fascinating, someone looking at health and nutrition, 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:19.880 starting at the molecular level 00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:21.880 and actually really understanding that, 00:09:21.880 --> 00:09:26.880 having such a solid grasp of the biochemistry. 00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:29.480 It took a long time. 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.960 The work is dense and hard to understand 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:34.520 for someone without a scientific background. 00:09:34.520 --> 00:09:35.800 So it took a long time. 00:09:35.800 --> 00:09:40.800 It took actually a couple years of reading and listening 00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:43.040 and talking with Jeremy and others 00:09:43.040 --> 00:09:47.080 to really have a grasp on the unique view 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.680 and also self-experimentation with diet 00:09:50.680 --> 00:09:54.320 and certain lifestyle things 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:58.720 that really ended up having quite a large impact, 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.440 I think, in both of our healths. 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.160 - Definitely, and it was a while. 00:10:04.160 --> 00:10:06.280 We were aware of reading Ray's work 00:10:06.280 --> 00:10:10.320 for quite a long time before we talked about 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.480 the idea of doing a documentary. 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:16.800 I think it coincided and somewhat inspired 00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:18.960 doing something, getting into a project 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:21.120 that was more meaningful than outside 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.400 of the commercial world that we'd been in for so long. 00:10:24.400 --> 00:10:25.720 - Wow, that's excellent. 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:27.880 Well, all this talk about Dr. Ray Peat, 00:10:27.880 --> 00:10:30.000 I think we need to ask Dr. Ray Peat 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.600 what your professional and academic background is 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:36.880 if there's listeners tonight that have not heard our show 00:10:36.880 --> 00:10:38.200 in previous months. 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:44.360 - I was studying art and literature as an undergraduate 00:10:44.400 --> 00:10:49.040 and did my master's thesis mostly on William Blake. 00:10:49.040 --> 00:10:54.040 And all that time, I was interested in life in general 00:10:54.040 --> 00:11:01.280 and saw biology as a way to get some concrete facts 00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:08.000 that would confirm alternative views 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:13.600 because I saw in the humanities dogma 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.600 and political opinions influencing 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:21.880 what was teachable in the universities. 00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:26.880 And I thought that real science might have relevance 00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:31.160 to the humanities. 00:11:31.160 --> 00:11:36.160 And as soon as I enrolled at the University of Oregon 00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:38.600 to work on a PhD in biology, 00:11:39.560 --> 00:11:43.400 after taking a few years out in between my master's, 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:49.880 I quickly realized that biology was exactly 00:11:49.880 --> 00:11:57.760 as unscientific as linguistics, philosophy, 00:11:57.760 --> 00:11:59.560 literature, and so on. 00:11:59.560 --> 00:12:04.200 Ideology was right at the center of nerve biology. 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:07.280 And so I wrote to Gilbert Ling, 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:13.120 and I told him what my professors were teaching, 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:18.240 that he and others had shown to be profoundly wrong 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.640 20 years previously. 00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:24.720 And he answered, said, 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.520 "You just don't understand what science is. 00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:30.080 "Science is all about prestige and money." 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:34.080 - And so what year was that that you wrote to Gilbert? 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:38.160 - 1968, I think, in the fall when I started the university. 00:12:38.160 --> 00:12:43.080 And just after a few more months 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:47.720 working with the nerve biology brain people, 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:51.840 I found that the reproductive biologist 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.680 was actually a scientist who, 00:12:54.680 --> 00:13:00.840 when I observed things that were counter to the dogma, 00:13:01.800 --> 00:13:03.680 he said, "Is it repeatable? 00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:05.480 "Then go ahead." 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:08.080 - Great, so he had an open mind to science. 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.800 - Yeah, and the nerve biologist said 00:13:10.800 --> 00:13:15.040 he wouldn't even look at the experiments that I was doing. 00:13:15.040 --> 00:13:19.480 All of my experiments showed something 00:13:19.480 --> 00:13:22.200 contrary to the nerve dogma. 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.840 And my professor would just turn instantly 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.160 so he didn't have to see what the instruments were showing. 00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:33.920 - Excellent, that is the thrust of, 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:35.880 and I definitely haven't spoken to you, Dr. Peat, 00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:37.840 since early on in the week 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.000 before we even invited Brad and Jeremy to the show, 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.800 but that's exactly the thrust of where tonight's show's going. 00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:47.440 So the scientists that we mentioned earlier, 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:49.240 well, sorry, we haven't mentioned the scientists yet, 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:50.880 but I was saying earlier that you have, 00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:52.920 in the course of the last several years, 00:13:52.920 --> 00:13:54.120 whenever we do radio shows, 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.440 we will always throw out these eminent scientists' names 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.560 and we look at them like Gerald Pollack and May Wan Ho 00:13:58.560 --> 00:13:59.920 and Gilbert Ling, et cetera. 00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:01.760 And Jeremy and Brad took it upon themselves 00:14:01.760 --> 00:14:03.520 to go take a list of these people 00:14:03.520 --> 00:14:05.560 and go see if they could track them down and film them. 00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:07.400 - I know, I wanna know how that came about 00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:09.920 when Jeremy and Brad were talking to you, Ray. 00:14:09.920 --> 00:14:11.680 - Well, one minute, I just wanted to say 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:13.880 at this point in time in post-production, 00:14:13.880 --> 00:14:16.360 sorry, pre-production, the editing stage, 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:21.360 they have produced a fantastic couple of minutes movie clip 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.280 showing all the different people that they've interviewed. 00:14:24.280 --> 00:14:26.360 And these people are all on the cutting edge. 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.120 They're all PhD, they're professors, 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:29.600 they're research scientists. 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:30.960 They're all very respectable people 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.360 who've produced works in published journals, et cetera. 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.520 And they are directly refuting some long-held tenets 00:14:37.520 --> 00:14:39.880 and dogma of science that most people 00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:41.800 just get faced with by their doctors 00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:44.200 because the doctors are not reading research. 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:45.840 So the whole thrust of tonight's show 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:49.160 was not only to bring out these scientists 00:14:49.160 --> 00:14:50.640 and their various different aspects 00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:52.440 of what they're looking at in science, 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:54.800 but to let people know that they can find out more 00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:56.920 about this movie that's being created 00:14:56.920 --> 00:15:01.920 by going to www.perceivethinkact. 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:05.400 So perceivethinkact is the main link. 00:15:05.400 --> 00:15:06.960 - Dot com. - Dot com, of course. 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.040 Or you can just put that perceivethinkact 00:15:09.040 --> 00:15:12.200 in a Google search term, Google search bar. 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:13.640 It'll take you straight to their website 00:15:13.640 --> 00:15:16.200 and you'll be able to see the work that they're doing. 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.680 So yeah, the main thing is I wanted to go through 00:15:19.680 --> 00:15:23.400 the different scientists that Dr. Peat's mentioned in past 00:15:23.400 --> 00:15:26.800 that Jeremy and Brad went to see on different continents 00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:29.680 and get a feeling for the kind of science 00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:32.960 that they've put together in I don't know how many hours. 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:34.760 How many hours do you think you took altogether 00:15:34.760 --> 00:15:37.520 and how many hours do you think the DVD will be? 00:15:37.520 --> 00:15:40.360 - Oh, well, in terms of raw footage so far, 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.360 we've shot hundreds of hours. 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.600 - Yeah, 200 hours. 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:49.520 - Yeah, the final project will be a feature film length, 00:15:49.520 --> 00:15:54.520 but perhaps we're gonna explore maybe shorter series 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.400 that could cover more ground as well. 00:15:57.400 --> 00:15:58.400 - In depth, okay, cool. 00:15:58.400 --> 00:16:02.640 - Okay, so Dr. Peat, how did you come up with the idea 00:16:02.640 --> 00:16:04.280 for Brad and Jeremy or Brad and Jeremy, 00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:05.200 how did you come up with it 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.520 to interview these other scientists? 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:11.800 - Well, it was the original conversation we had 00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:16.520 with Dr. Peat talking about this idea. 00:16:16.520 --> 00:16:21.120 And he mentioned or had asked had we thought 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.200 about talking to Harold Hillman 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.840 and we had heard of Harold Hillman, 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.120 but hadn't really looked into him. 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.760 And he mentioned a couple other names, 00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:34.760 Miao Wan Ho, and we started diving deeper into their work 00:16:34.760 --> 00:16:39.480 and realizing there's a much larger story to tell here. 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:43.800 And that really sparked this quest 00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:48.800 to then sort of check off all of the people 00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:51.960 who's what seem like disparate theories, 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.200 Ray has connected the dots and woven together 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.200 into what we think is a fairly cohesive new model 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.200 for the workings of life. 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.120 - That's why I keep telling Dr. Peat, 00:17:05.120 --> 00:17:07.720 we need to write a book that's called the Peat Manual 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:10.680 instead of the Merck Manual, you know, it's a Peat Manual. 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.640 - Who knows? 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.320 Okay, so let's start with Dr. Miao Wan Ho, 00:17:15.320 --> 00:17:18.840 just because you have firsthand knowledge of her 00:17:18.840 --> 00:17:21.720 and you've met her and maybe you can just give 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:23.720 an outline of Miao Wan Ho's background, 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.960 her philosophy and you know, her character. 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:30.280 - She's covered a lot of different topics. 00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:34.320 I think probably what she's known for being 00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:37.440 most controversial on is GMOs, 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.840 but mainly what we talked to her about 00:17:39.840 --> 00:17:44.640 is her study of basically quantum biology 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:50.240 and the crystalline structure of organisms. 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.440 And she did a number of experiments 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:55.600 using a type of microscope that's, 00:17:55.600 --> 00:17:57.680 I think generally used in geology. 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.400 And it's basically uses polarized light 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.920 and allows you to look at generally like 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.040 the structure of crystals and rocks. 00:18:08.040 --> 00:18:11.480 But she found that the small organisms 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.680 had the same sort of crystalline structure 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.000 in a liquid form. 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:19.880 And I think that was kind of an inspiring 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:23.880 paradigm shifting thought to her. 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:24.720 - Okay. 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.920 - And it fits in with things like, you know, 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.320 structured water and thinking about the organism 00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:35.680 in a way that it's in the mechanistic views of science 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.960 and various sorts of chemical biology 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.880 is totally counter to that type of thinking. 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.480 - Okay. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:46.400 - So she wrote the book "Rainbow and the Worm," 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.040 which is kind of all about that. 00:18:48.040 --> 00:18:49.280 - "Rainbow in the?" 00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:52.120 - I think it's called "The Rainbow and the Worm." 00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:52.960 - "And the Worm." 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.480 - "And the Worm," okay, got it. 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:56.320 Okay. 00:18:56.320 --> 00:19:01.320 - And that also, those findings to her 00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:08.200 that connected with criticisms against neo-Darwinism 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.000 as well, if the organism is not fundamentally 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.560 so mechanistic and much more fluidic and subtle, 00:19:16.560 --> 00:19:21.560 then it would support, lay support to the theories 00:19:21.560 --> 00:19:26.080 more in line with Sidney Fox and others. 00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:26.920 - Okay. 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.560 Well, Dr. Peat, given that you are on the show, 00:19:29.560 --> 00:19:33.720 let's just quickly ask you of a rundown for Maywan, 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:35.800 if you like, just because you've always, 00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:37.400 you're the one that's been mentioning her 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:38.800 in the first instance. 00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:40.560 What springs to your mind? 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.440 - That image of the worm really is one 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.440 of the most important things that people 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:50.720 should start thinking about. 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:56.800 The quantum biology, I think Albert George, 00:19:56.800 --> 00:20:04.800 actually was the one that motivated people 00:20:04.800 --> 00:20:09.360 to start going in the direction of electronic biology 00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:13.400 and a coherent view of the cell. 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:20.240 Maywan Ho is to a great degree an extension 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:25.400 of some of Albert George's ideas. 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:26.240 - Okay. 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.240 All right, well, moving on to Harold Hillman, 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:29.960 and I think he's the next person. 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:34.120 Yeah, first of all, when did you first interview Maywan Ho? 00:20:34.120 --> 00:20:35.960 What data are we looking at now? 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:38.920 - Well, we actually started with Harold Hillman. 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:39.840 - Oh, you did, I'm sorry. 00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:42.800 - Yes, but only a few days before Maywan Ho, 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:47.400 and it was around the 15th of April of last year. 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:48.240 - Okay. 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.080 - Yeah. 00:20:49.080 --> 00:20:49.920 - So you went to England. 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:51.600 - Yes, we went. 00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:54.800 - It was, yeah, planning our first trip, 00:20:54.800 --> 00:20:57.240 we wanted to knock several interviews out at once, 00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:59.880 and there were several people in England. 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.760 So there was Harold Hillman and Maywan Ho was like, 00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:04.200 Harold was our first interview, 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.800 and then two days later, we went to see Maywan. 00:21:06.800 --> 00:21:09.240 - So tell me a little bit about Harold Hillman 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.720 and his background and what he was like 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.120 and what he's contributed to the documentary. 00:21:14.120 --> 00:21:20.440 - Well, the crux of his work is his criticisms 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:25.080 of traditional microscopy as well as electron, 00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:26.360 the use of the electron microscope, 00:21:26.360 --> 00:21:29.800 in that most of the structures we see 00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:33.360 when we're looking through them are artifacts, 00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:37.080 and this is because of the processing 00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:40.680 that what was once living material has to go through, 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.120 and it would make your head spin hearing him list 00:21:44.120 --> 00:21:48.560 all of the things that, the dehydration, dying, smashing, 00:21:48.560 --> 00:21:50.800 and what you're left with is something 00:21:50.800 --> 00:21:55.480 that bears almost no resemblance to an actual living cell, 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:58.040 so then how can you learn about the living cell 00:21:58.040 --> 00:22:02.120 when what you're looking at is basically artifacts? 00:22:02.120 --> 00:22:04.720 - And is he saying that this is still happening 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.240 in mainstream biology, this is still the norm? 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:09.160 - Oh, yeah. - Yes, yeah, yes. 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.440 - He made a film, sorry, on YouTube, 00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:15.440 there's old films of his that you can watch, 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.680 and it's still, it's pretty pertinent today. 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:20.720 It's really simple, which is what I think 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:23.840 makes his criticisms so inflammatory, 00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:25.840 is he just shows a side-by-side 00:22:25.840 --> 00:22:29.320 of a cell being prepared for a microscope slide, 00:22:29.320 --> 00:22:31.280 and you've got the living cell on one side 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:33.440 looking like a transparent blob, 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.520 and then after it goes through all of the steps 00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:40.080 of being washed in alcohol and various other compounds, 00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:41.800 it's like about a third the size 00:22:41.800 --> 00:22:44.280 and all squashed and squiggly-looking. 00:22:44.280 --> 00:22:47.520 - Does he do anything with live blood microscopy? 00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:51.840 - Not himself personally, but he did, 00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:56.440 we asked him about the techniques currently in use 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.080 that do let you look at, or at least more accurate 00:23:00.080 --> 00:23:04.800 than light microscopy, or the electron microscope. 00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:09.480 And going back to what Dr. Peat had experienced 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:13.280 when he was a student, his professor 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:16.040 not even wanting to look at what he was doing, 00:23:16.040 --> 00:23:21.040 similar with Dr. Hillman, his work was so difficult 00:23:21.040 --> 00:23:25.320 to criticize that people would just leave the room 00:23:25.320 --> 00:23:27.040 when he would come in. 00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:29.120 At scientific conferences, they would literally 00:23:29.120 --> 00:23:32.160 turn around and run away because they just didn't want 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.600 to hear him speak. 00:23:33.600 --> 00:23:35.400 - They'd rather keep their paycheck coming in 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.600 than actually look at what science might be showing them. 00:23:39.600 --> 00:23:41.920 - Unfortunately in the medical world 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:43.720 and/or the scientific world, the ego I think 00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:46.840 gets in the way so much that people don't even see 00:23:46.840 --> 00:23:48.480 the truth when it's right in front of them. 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.480 But yeah, at the same time, there are people 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.400 that have very alternative ways of looking at things 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.000 like Dr. Peat and the people that you've seen, 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.040 so this again is a part point of your documentary 00:23:57.040 --> 00:24:00.120 is to illustrate, I think from that first instance 00:24:00.120 --> 00:24:01.720 you talked about Harold being the first person 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:04.520 you saw, that's pretty interesting 00:24:04.520 --> 00:24:06.280 because he's the person who you're saying 00:24:06.280 --> 00:24:09.440 is refuting a lot of what microscopy is revealing. 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:11.680 - Yeah, exactly. - Where it all stems from. 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.240 Yeah, rotten foundations basically. 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:15.080 - Okay. 00:24:15.080 --> 00:24:19.840 - There was a famous Swedish electron microscopy expert 00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:24.840 named Fridtjof Shostran who did a lot of studies 00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:29.840 or did a lot of very clear explanation 00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:34.120 using different fixatives showing how profound 00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:39.120 the artifacts are in standard preparations 00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:44.120 and he was a mainstream researcher 00:24:44.120 --> 00:24:48.040 but the mainstream simply overlooked 00:24:48.040 --> 00:24:51.000 his work on the artifacts. 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.080 - Okay, well let's move on to Dr. Gerald Pollack. 00:24:56.080 --> 00:24:57.600 A lot of people that are listening to the show 00:24:57.600 --> 00:25:00.040 may well have mentioned, sorry, may well have heard 00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:02.320 his name mentioned in the past and may well know him 00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:04.640 from his structured water. 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:07.720 He's kind of water, he's called the water wizard 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:09.120 I think they call him. 00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:10.520 - Yeah. 00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:12.200 - Go ahead, either one of you want to start 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:14.200 and tell us a little bit about Gerald Pollack 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.680 and what you gained from his interview. 00:25:20.040 --> 00:25:23.280 - Well yeah, he's really known probably more widely 00:25:23.280 --> 00:25:25.440 than anyone else that we've interviewed so far 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.760 as far as having, he's got mainstream talks. 00:25:28.760 --> 00:25:33.760 He's done a TED talk and his focus today 00:25:33.760 --> 00:25:38.880 is really on what they generally call structured water, 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:44.440 another phase that, you know, it's one of those topics 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.480 I think he's really unpopular in his department 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.680 because he has chosen to study something 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.880 that seems like obviously it's already been figured out. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.840 But they do some fairly simple experiments 00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:02.240 to show that there are more unusual 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.360 electrically based forms of water 00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:08.560 and they create, they call it easy water, 00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:10.920 the exclusion zone when you get the water 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.840 building up on a surface and it purifies itself, 00:26:14.840 --> 00:26:17.520 basically everything becomes excluded from it. 00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:21.840 And that seems to be the exact kind of water, 00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:24.160 how water's structured inside cells. 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:27.480 So it has all sorts of implications 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.160 for further understanding biology. 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.960 - He found that one of the substances 00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:40.720 that seems to create easy water or structured water 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.280 with the most affinity is aspirin. 00:26:43.280 --> 00:26:45.080 - Interesting. 00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:45.920 - Which we found, yeah, very interesting 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:49.120 in that it has such broad effects in the body 00:26:49.120 --> 00:26:54.040 and if it's connected to that attribute of it. 00:26:54.040 --> 00:26:57.280 - Yeah, the stabilizing effect of water. 00:26:57.280 --> 00:27:00.560 - Okay, Dr. Peat, I know you've always been a proponent 00:27:00.560 --> 00:27:02.960 of aspirin for quite a wide range 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.120 of different conditions, inflammatory generally, 00:27:05.120 --> 00:27:10.120 but do you have anything to say on Gerald Pollack? 00:27:11.120 --> 00:27:16.120 - Oh, everything he's been doing in recent years 00:27:16.120 --> 00:27:18.960 is just extremely interesting. 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.960 He has developed some theories on how light energy, 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:31.320 infrared is used in building structure in water 00:27:31.320 --> 00:27:36.080 and there's a young German named Andrei Sommer, 00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:40.360 S-O-M-M-E-R, who is working with red light 00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:42.640 structuring water. 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:48.040 Very similar and very concrete demonstration 00:27:48.040 --> 00:27:52.160 of what on a bigger scale, 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:57.160 Patterson, Gerald is working on. 00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.880 - So is that some of the reason why red light 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.000 is so anti-inflammatory, because of its effects 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:05.000 on the water of the cell? 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.160 - Yeah, I think that's part of it. 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.080 - Well, it's a good time of year 00:28:09.080 --> 00:28:10.320 to get your red light, folks. 00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:13.480 It's nice and sunny here in California. 00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:17.440 - It was also just really heartening to see Gerald's lab. 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.280 You know, it's easy to feel gloomy 00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:21.280 when pondering all the ills 00:28:21.280 --> 00:28:24.040 in our medical and scientific establishments, 00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:29.040 but Gerald's lab is full of young and excited, 00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:33.320 inspired scientists that are working 00:28:33.320 --> 00:28:36.400 on all sorts of interesting endeavors 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:41.400 that it made us hopeful for the next generation. 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.040 - Yeah, one of his students, 00:28:45.040 --> 00:28:49.040 who I think is sort of the top guy under him now, 00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:52.120 originally did a project trying to disprove him. 00:28:52.120 --> 00:28:56.360 And I think he spent a year, 00:28:56.360 --> 00:29:00.160 and then he proved to himself, basically, 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:05.160 that Gerald was doing good science and joined his side. 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:06.280 - Excellent. 00:29:06.280 --> 00:29:07.880 Okay, so from the first three that we've mentioned, 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:10.720 then, May Wan Ho, Harold Hillman, and Gerald Pollack, 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:12.720 they're all doctors, but didn't say that to begin with. 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.280 So starting with May Wan Ho, 00:29:14.280 --> 00:29:17.480 then looking at polarized light and quantum biology, 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:21.000 criticizing the neo-Darwinism that's kind of so prevalent 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.640 in the scientific community. 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.160 And then Harold Hillman, the microscopist, 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.920 looking at microscopy as, 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:32.200 or what's being done in microscopy as being poor science 00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:35.720 and actually very damaging, if you like, 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.720 to the subject that's being visualized, 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:40.960 and how that can impact various experiments. 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.480 And then also, then, Gerald Pollack and structured water. 00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:45.320 So I know we've got several other scientists 00:29:45.320 --> 00:29:47.680 that I'd like you to cover that you've been with, 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.000 but first of all, just let me let people know 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.840 who are listening. 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:53.960 This is "Ask Your Obdoctoran," K.M.E.D. Garbleville, 91.1 FM, 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:57.720 and we're interviewing Jeremy and Brad, 00:29:57.720 --> 00:29:59.280 and let me just get this right. 00:30:00.320 --> 00:30:03.400 It is Jeremy Stewart and Brad Abrahams. 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:05.000 - Yes. - And Dr. Peat is with us, 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:06.480 although I thought Dr. Peat actually 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.840 was gonna have the evening off. 00:30:08.840 --> 00:30:10.000 (laughing) 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.960 - Well, we're glad that he's here. 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:13.520 - Yeah, we're very glad too, Dr. Peat. 00:30:13.520 --> 00:30:15.360 So we definitely appreciate that. 00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:19.200 But these two gentlemen are documentary filmmakers, 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.000 and they have done the seemingly impossible 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.440 and interviewed eight of these scientists 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:27.080 that Dr. Peat has been talking about for many years now 00:30:27.080 --> 00:30:30.320 when he brings out his various different anecdotes, 00:30:30.320 --> 00:30:31.600 as he always does, 00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:36.480 and have producing a fantastic documentary film, 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.720 kind of unifying all of the theories, 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:42.200 I think in some ways, that Dr. Peat is able to understand 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:44.520 that all these people working in their individual fields 00:30:44.520 --> 00:30:48.800 are contributing all the same sort of unifying knowledge 00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:51.880 to an approach and a framework to approaching disease 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.440 that is so radical, and hopefully it's about time 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:57.400 for mainstream science to wake up 00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.880 and some people to see what's going on. 00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:00.720 We've always said, you know, 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.080 for those who have ears, listen and let them hear. 00:31:04.080 --> 00:31:09.080 So they can be reached at www.perceivethinkact.com. 00:31:09.080 --> 00:31:13.600 So go ahead and check them out on the web 00:31:13.600 --> 00:31:14.800 and see the work they're doing. 00:31:14.800 --> 00:31:16.760 It's really quite special. 00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:19.440 So let's move on then, Brad and Jeremy, 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.640 to Dr. Gilbert Ling. 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:23.160 And tell us a little bit about this fellow. 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.840 And I think actually, in some ways, 00:31:24.840 --> 00:31:27.800 this next couple of people seem to be getting on 00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:28.960 in their years. 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:30.240 They've been doing it for a long time. 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.160 So let's talk about Gilbert Ling. 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:35.200 - Well, Gilbert, I think now is 96, I believe. 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:40.200 And when we saw him, he was in shockingly good health, 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:43.280 living alone in a mansion, 00:31:43.280 --> 00:31:45.200 basically running up and down the stairs, 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:46.960 doing everything for himself. 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.520 The only issue really being his hearing. 00:31:49.520 --> 00:31:52.320 But recently he had a health complication 00:31:52.320 --> 00:31:56.800 and is now not able to live on his own, unfortunately. 00:31:56.800 --> 00:32:01.800 Yeah, but he seems to be getting back to his old self, 00:32:01.800 --> 00:32:04.320 which is good to hear. 00:32:04.320 --> 00:32:08.160 But it's really difficult to sum up 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.200 Gilbert's past and achievements, 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:14.920 but he's most known for disproving 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:16.880 the sodium pump hypothesis, 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:21.880 which is at the root of all basically thought on-- 00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:23.280 - Physiology. 00:32:23.280 --> 00:32:26.760 - Physiology and the role of the cell membrane 00:32:26.760 --> 00:32:29.160 in that sodium pump hypothesis. 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.240 And his hypothesis, 00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:34.080 called the association induction hypothesis, 00:32:34.080 --> 00:32:39.160 it basically details a totally different, 00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:44.160 totally unconventional model of how the cell works. 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.760 - And it's based only on physics and chemistry. 00:32:46.760 --> 00:32:48.680 - Right, actual science. 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.280 Yeah, that's what's so forward thinking about it. 00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:54.960 - It's scientific and reproducible, 00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:56.960 you're saying, it's something that-- 00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:01.840 - Yeah, and he's done possibly thousands of experiments 00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.200 showing the work and proving it 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.080 that have all but been ignored. 00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:09.840 And they won't even, if he submits a paper to, 00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:13.440 even on an unrelated subject to any journal, 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.040 they reject it just saying-- 00:33:15.040 --> 00:33:15.880 - Immediately. 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:17.840 - Yeah, they don't even read it. 00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:20.800 They just send him a rejection notice because of his name. 00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:23.080 - Wow, now Dr. Peat, I know that 00:33:23.080 --> 00:33:25.200 when we've spoken to you in the past, 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.560 and I, again, unfortunately went through an education 00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:29.680 where it was very science-based 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.120 and it was the same kind of erroneous science. 00:33:32.120 --> 00:33:34.960 - Not really science-based, it pretended to be science-based, 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:36.680 but really it was just medical dogma. 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.320 - We still had sodium pumps and potassium pumps 00:33:39.320 --> 00:33:41.200 and all that kind of stuff moving, 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:43.120 allowing things to be transported across the cell. 00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:46.280 And I know, Dr. Peat, that you're very anti 00:33:46.280 --> 00:33:48.760 the membrane pump idea, 00:33:48.760 --> 00:33:52.600 saying that actually cells are very fluid and elastic 00:33:52.600 --> 00:33:55.560 and they flow and they move and they make space 00:33:55.560 --> 00:33:57.840 between the cells for things to enter and exit. 00:33:57.840 --> 00:34:01.880 And actually this is a much better and holistic approach 00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:03.760 to the physiology of the cell. 00:34:03.760 --> 00:34:07.600 - Yeah, wasn't the cell membrane theory 00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:08.920 just brought about by big pharmas 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:12.280 so they could try to explain how their drugs are working? 00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:17.360 - Well, sort of, I think it really relates to neo-Darwinism 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:25.800 and the genetic idea that they want to get away 00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:31.760 from the idea that life is somehow stable. 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:37.000 And so it's more like a machine which has to run 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:41.320 to keep itself in a given state. 00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:44.960 But Gilbert Ling showed that even if you turn off 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:49.960 the energy supply, the cell is stable for many hours. 00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:55.040 The sodium keeps going in and going out, 00:34:55.040 --> 00:35:00.360 but the cell retains the life-like imbalance 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.320 between sodium and potassium. 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:07.280 And all of the life-like properties don't require energy. 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:10.000 They simply require the structure of the water 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.640 and the whole living system. 00:35:12.640 --> 00:35:18.920 And there are just apparently in the infinite number of ways 00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:25.640 of looking at that that confirm Gilbert Ling's view, 00:35:25.640 --> 00:35:30.640 but the absurd, the need to see things 00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:36.320 in this mechanical way makes people overlook the facts 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.600 and believe absurd things. 00:35:40.600 --> 00:35:45.600 - In an electron microscope course that I took, 00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:48.480 I decided to try different fixatives. 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:52.960 I had read Sjostrand's, some of his publications, 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.600 and simply by using a different fixative, 00:35:56.600 --> 00:36:01.600 my cells were nothing but membranes, 00:36:01.600 --> 00:36:04.160 membranes all the way through. 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:06.240 (laughing) 00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:11.240 And so I looked at the origin of how they got 00:36:11.240 --> 00:36:16.520 the first membrane, and in an old medical book, 00:36:16.520 --> 00:36:21.520 19th century ideas, I saw that doctors treated ulcers 00:36:21.520 --> 00:36:27.400 and burns with osmic acid, osmic tetroxide, 00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:30.960 to create what they called the false membrane. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.560 And that was a standard medical term. 00:36:34.560 --> 00:36:39.560 So it was in the consciousness of the people 00:36:39.560 --> 00:36:42.280 who were working on cells. 00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:46.640 And the first preparations for electron microscopy 00:36:46.640 --> 00:36:50.400 of cells showed no membranes at all, 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.560 but they believed that there had to be membranes. 00:36:53.560 --> 00:36:57.800 And apparently someone recalled that old medical concept 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.960 of creating a false membrane to seal up a wound, 00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:06.600 and they applied the osmic acid to living cells 00:37:06.600 --> 00:37:10.040 and created, in fact, a membrane, 00:37:10.040 --> 00:37:13.160 which was about 10 times thicker 00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:17.120 than they eventually decided they needed. 00:37:17.120 --> 00:37:19.720 And so they refined the technique. 00:37:19.720 --> 00:37:23.400 Now they have approximately the right thickness of membrane. 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:24.640 (laughing) 00:37:24.640 --> 00:37:28.320 - And just how they've never been able to find 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.440 one of their hundreds of pumps that they've invented. 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:33.560 - And any time there's a new thing 00:37:33.560 --> 00:37:34.680 that goes in and out of the cell, 00:37:34.680 --> 00:37:35.960 they have to create a new pump, 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:37.960 add a new pump to the list? 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:42.800 - If you wash all of the ions out of hair 00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:45.480 and dip hair in the serum, 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:50.480 it picks up the proper ions and excludes sodium. 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:56.560 So apparently dead hair has all of the necessary pumps. 00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:59.200 The working pumps. 00:37:59.200 --> 00:38:00.040 (laughing) 00:38:00.040 --> 00:38:01.560 - Okay, well let's move on. 00:38:01.560 --> 00:38:02.400 Go ahead, go on. 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.040 - I was gonna say one more thing about Gilbert Lang 00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:06.600 that I think he's not more well-known 00:38:06.600 --> 00:38:10.400 because he's got an impressive academic career. 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:12.200 He's really intelligent, 00:38:12.200 --> 00:38:14.520 and he speaks at such a high level 00:38:14.520 --> 00:38:16.720 that it's pretty difficult to follow along 00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:17.920 sometimes what he's saying, 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.560 unless you have degrees in biochemistry. 00:38:21.560 --> 00:38:25.400 And so reading his books is really challenging, 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:26.720 especially for a layman. 00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:29.120 Even for a scientist. 00:38:29.120 --> 00:38:29.960 - Yeah. 00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.240 - Well, that's why we appreciate Dr. Ray Peat so much. 00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:33.080 - Exactly. 00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:33.920 - Exactly, yeah. 00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.840 - Because you're able to put all these pieces together 00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:40.160 and make a coherent picture that we can understand. 00:38:40.160 --> 00:38:44.560 - So let's go on to, let's see here, Dr. Michael Persinger. 00:38:44.560 --> 00:38:49.080 - He was one that was not initially on our list, 00:38:49.080 --> 00:38:52.520 but someone that Brad and I both had mutual interest in 00:38:52.520 --> 00:38:56.200 prior to ever, I think, even hearing about Ray. 00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:00.880 But we were really surprised at how well he entered up 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:03.400 fitting in in the interview phase. 00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:08.400 And I guess he is listed as studying parapsychology. 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:13.320 But basically he's done a huge amount of work 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:18.320 on the effects of fields on life, on consciousness. 00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:22.440 And he's most well-known for what's now 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:23.880 a very old experiment. 00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:28.560 And if you just search for the God Helmet on YouTube, 00:39:28.560 --> 00:39:32.800 you'll see videos on that experiment showing 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:37.160 electromagnetic stimulation of the right hemisphere 00:39:37.160 --> 00:39:41.360 inducing a sensed presence in quite a few people. 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:43.840 - Okay, as if they perceive something, 00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:46.160 they perceive a person or... 00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:48.840 - Yeah, and it's like a closed eye experience 00:39:48.840 --> 00:39:52.480 in a sealed room wearing a scooter helmet. 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.440 And for, you know, it's an experience that's induced 00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.960 in people who seem to be sensitive to it 00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:03.880 and then totally filtered by their cultural eye. 00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:05.800 Like if someone was highly religious, 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:08.600 they might have some kind of God experience. 00:40:08.600 --> 00:40:09.440 - Okay. 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.280 - And so that, well, that's kind of, I think, 00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:14.080 what most people know him from. 00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:19.640 But he's done decades of other more advanced work since then. 00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:22.960 But he has lots to say about operating in the system, 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.960 doing controversial study and proposing radical ideas 00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:33.320 and doing good science and, you know, showing the effects. 00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:36.240 Basically, I think it's really controversial 00:40:36.240 --> 00:40:37.760 to do anything with fields. 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:38.680 - Okay. 00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:43.120 - And he's done a lot of work showing how sensitive life 00:40:43.120 --> 00:40:45.480 is to electromagnetic fields. 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:48.160 - How many, I just have to ask a question here at this point. 00:40:48.160 --> 00:40:50.200 How many of these people that you've interviewed 00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:55.200 up to this person, Dr. Michael Pettinger, are marginalized? 00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:57.000 - All of them. 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:57.840 - All of them, really? 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.080 - Yeah, I'd say the one who's least marginalized 00:41:01.080 --> 00:41:05.360 is Gerald Pollack, but even in his case, he's often-- 00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:06.880 - He's treading a fine line, huh? 00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:09.880 - At risk of his, I mean, he's had his funding 00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:13.040 taken away from him and is always at risk of that. 00:41:13.040 --> 00:41:16.680 And as well as constant attacks from other professors 00:41:16.680 --> 00:41:18.120 that feel threatened. 00:41:18.120 --> 00:41:24.920 Michael Pettinger has seemed to have carved out a niche 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:28.800 for himself in the bitter north of Canada 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.240 at a small university. 00:41:30.240 --> 00:41:34.280 And I think that that allows him to do what he wants to do 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.960 and have the facilities that he needs to do it. 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:39.160 - He doesn't have the same introspection, huh? 00:41:39.160 --> 00:41:40.000 (laughing) 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:40.840 Okay. 00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:42.480 - Maybe it's because he's in Canada. 00:41:44.560 --> 00:41:47.560 - Well, let's move on to the next person on the list. 00:41:47.560 --> 00:41:49.880 Probably one of my, I'm probably more, 00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.040 I'm as drawn to this person as I am to Dr. Harold Hillman, 00:41:52.040 --> 00:41:53.480 just because Dr. Harold Hillman's British, 00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.560 but Dr. Fred Kummerow, he's 100 years old now, isn't he? 00:41:57.560 --> 00:42:01.200 And he looks so good for his age, folks. 00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:04.520 If people that are listening here, Dr. Fred Kummerow, 00:42:04.520 --> 00:42:07.400 K-U-M-M-E-R-O-W, he's 100 years old. 00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.280 And I'm sure Dr. Peat will have something to say about him 00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:11.640 as well as both of you, Brad and Jeremy, 00:42:11.640 --> 00:42:16.640 but he was very into demonizing polyunsaturates 00:42:16.640 --> 00:42:19.640 a long time ago, and his skin looks so good. 00:42:19.640 --> 00:42:21.120 You've met him in person, what's he like? 00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:26.120 - Yes, it's even, he looks even better than you'd imagine. 00:42:26.120 --> 00:42:31.440 He has no age spots or the lipoflex skin anywhere. 00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.800 And his hair, while gray, he has a full head of hair. 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:40.800 It's nice and soft, nice full set of teeth. 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:41.880 - Do you touch his hair? 00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.320 - No, but it's very soft. 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:49.320 And he basically had, for his adult life, 00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:55.040 avoided any added polyunsaturated fats in his diet. 00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:56.360 That I think is the-- 00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:57.520 - Tell us all about him. 00:42:57.520 --> 00:43:02.360 - Well, he's most recently known for success 00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.160 in his 60-year-long tireless crusade against trans fats, 00:43:07.160 --> 00:43:11.120 which is something that everyone sort of knows now 00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:14.360 that is bad for their health. 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:18.720 But what is not reported is he basically says 00:43:18.720 --> 00:43:22.480 very similar things about the polyunsaturated fats. 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:25.040 And when we told him, since he's quite old 00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:28.880 and he's not really connected into the modern health world, 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:33.360 when we told him that fish oil is sold as supplements 00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:36.520 and people drink flax oil, 00:43:36.520 --> 00:43:39.920 he literally physically recoiled, 00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:44.040 knowing the harm that it can do to health. 00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:49.040 And it has caused some people to die early, die young. 00:43:49.040 --> 00:43:53.080 And yeah, it actually horrified him 00:43:53.080 --> 00:43:56.080 that it's a billion-dollar industry, 00:43:56.080 --> 00:43:59.040 that all it's doing is harming your health. 00:43:59.040 --> 00:44:01.960 - Yeah, that's pretty sad, isn't it? 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:04.360 Go ahead, is there anything else you want to say 00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:07.440 about Dr. Fred Kimbrough, having met him? 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.000 And then maybe I'll ask Dr. Peat 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:11.560 what he has to think about him. 00:44:11.560 --> 00:44:16.200 - No, he's just, it's inspiring to see, 00:44:16.200 --> 00:44:19.600 he's getting older and recently in a wheelchair 00:44:19.600 --> 00:44:22.960 because of a swimming-related accident at 97. 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:28.600 So, age is starting to take its toll at 100 for him, 00:44:28.600 --> 00:44:32.520 but he's still doing active research at the lab 00:44:32.520 --> 00:44:36.560 and working on some novel compounds 00:44:36.560 --> 00:44:39.960 related to Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative diseases 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.840 that have to do with oxidization 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:44.720 of the polyunsaturated fat. 00:44:44.720 --> 00:44:46.200 - I just want to let our listeners know 00:44:46.200 --> 00:44:51.000 that if you visit this website, www.perceivedthinkact, 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.960 you can see a short clip, a short video clip 00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.880 of all of these doctors we're talking about this evening. 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:58.480 I don't know if that's been mentioned, but. 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:01.440 - Okay, and just for some context on the website. 00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:02.800 - Yeah, please do, go ahead. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.920 - Perceivedthinkact.com is our, 00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.640 it's just like the journal of our, 00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:11.960 it's our journey of making the film. 00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:13.280 So it's the production journal, 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:15.040 and in chronological order, 00:45:15.040 --> 00:45:17.200 it has a post for each of our shoots 00:45:17.200 --> 00:45:19.240 with every subject we've had, 00:45:19.240 --> 00:45:22.800 and pictures and videos from the shoots. 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.600 - And I think also important to note 00:45:25.600 --> 00:45:27.720 that we're not finished shooting. 00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:32.720 We've only really shot about 30 to 40% of the material. 00:45:32.720 --> 00:45:33.600 - Really? 00:45:33.600 --> 00:45:34.440 - Yeah, there's a lot of people 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.400 that we still want to interview. 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:38.320 - How are you gonna get them all 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:39.920 into a one and a half hour DVD? 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.480 (laughing) 00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.120 It's gonna be a compendium, isn't it? 00:45:45.120 --> 00:45:47.240 - The magic of good editing. 00:45:47.240 --> 00:45:48.600 - Yeah, editing. 00:45:48.600 --> 00:45:50.320 - Yeah, I'm not too sure how you're gonna cut enough out 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:51.680 to get it all into a small movie 00:45:51.680 --> 00:45:53.400 without cutting out some very good information. 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.880 But anyway, I'll leave that to you guys. 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:57.400 You guys are the film pros, so I'll leave that to you. 00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:59.480 But let's talk a little bit more then. 00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:02.720 Got a couple more subjects, and then we can... 00:46:02.720 --> 00:46:04.560 Actually, yes, I wanted to ask Dr. Peat. 00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:06.480 Dr. Peat, I don't want you just to be on the sidelines. 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:08.280 I know you're probably fairly happy, 00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:12.720 but hopefully not too tired. 00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:15.360 What do you have to say about Dr. Michael Persinger 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:18.880 from your experience and/or your work? 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:22.440 Where has he led you, if anywhere, in his journey? 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:26.840 - Well, my interest in fields went way back. 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.000 My brother was a radio ham 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:33.320 and had a lot of electronic equipment 00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:38.080 that I, from I guess the age of nine or so, 00:46:38.080 --> 00:46:40.600 had the opportunity to play with. 00:46:40.600 --> 00:46:44.320 And so the electrical properties 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:46.920 of all of my acquaintances, 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:51.920 seeing how aging affected the conductivity and so on, 00:46:53.640 --> 00:46:56.720 kept me constantly aware 00:46:56.720 --> 00:47:01.560 of the electrical magnetic properties of organisms. 00:47:01.560 --> 00:47:06.560 And in 1968, I went to Russia largely 00:47:06.560 --> 00:47:13.560 to talk to a man working in what he called 00:47:13.560 --> 00:47:19.280 magnetobiology, as opposed to biomagnetics. 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:25.000 He concentrated on the effects of fields on organisms 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:30.720 rather than the fields produced by the organisms. 00:47:30.720 --> 00:47:35.840 And one of my very first experiments at the university 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:40.880 after I got back was with a strong magnet 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:44.040 that my brother made for me, 00:47:44.040 --> 00:47:48.040 and looking at its effect on a crab nerve. 00:47:48.040 --> 00:47:51.840 And I could see that just the presence 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:56.840 of a strong magnetic field apparently affected, 00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:02.280 I interpreted it as affecting the structure of the water. 00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:08.440 The latent period, there was a delay between stimulation 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:13.000 and reaction in the presence of a magnetic field. 00:48:13.560 --> 00:48:18.560 And I also paid attention to the fields 00:48:18.560 --> 00:48:24.680 that I produced, electrical fields that would, 00:48:24.680 --> 00:48:29.480 some of the things like a millivolt meter, 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:32.160 I couldn't operate because my field would, 00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:38.040 from about a foot away, they would go off scale. 00:48:38.040 --> 00:48:42.480 So my lab partner had to handle the knobs on those things. 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:47.480 - So all very interesting, actual practical experimentation 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:50.960 showing that fields do not just subtly, 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.480 but grossly affect nerve impulses 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:58.160 and/or electric activity in the body. 00:48:58.160 --> 00:49:02.880 And that's been a lot of the basis for your outcry, 00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:05.880 if you like, against radiation and X-rays 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.120 and all the other visualization techniques 00:49:08.120 --> 00:49:10.520 that are used in medicine as being very harmful. 00:49:11.520 --> 00:49:15.520 - Yeah, very subtle fields have very big effects 00:49:15.520 --> 00:49:17.480 on organisms. 00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:21.720 - Okay, what about, I don't want to take too long 00:49:21.720 --> 00:49:24.000 with that one, but how about Dr. Fred Kummerow 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:27.320 and his background in trans fat, 00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.640 trying to keep, trying to ban trans fats? 00:49:31.640 --> 00:49:37.480 - The trans fats normally occur in butter 00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:40.120 as an intermediate stage. 00:49:40.120 --> 00:49:45.120 And the conjugated linoleic acid is the next step 00:49:45.120 --> 00:49:50.080 in shifting the unsaturation. 00:49:50.080 --> 00:49:54.560 And the very beneficial effects 00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:57.880 of conjugated linoleic acid, I think, 00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:02.880 are because they block some of the toxic effects 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.360 of the normal linoleic acid 00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:09.320 and other polyunsaturated fats. 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:13.040 So even though cow's milk and butter 00:50:13.040 --> 00:50:16.600 contain some trans fats, 00:50:16.600 --> 00:50:20.160 they also contain the beneficial next step, 00:50:20.160 --> 00:50:25.160 the conjugated form of the unsaturated fats. 00:50:25.160 --> 00:50:32.960 - Yeah, and Dr. Kummerow's criticism is more 00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:37.000 about the artificially created trans fats 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.400 rather than the naturally grown in dairy and other forms. 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:42.080 - He's got nothing against butter. 00:50:42.080 --> 00:50:44.440 - Yeah, he likes butter. 00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.480 - Yeah, it's all about the wholesale production 00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:50.680 then of trans fats and pumping those into the food chain. 00:50:50.680 --> 00:50:51.800 - Yes. 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.400 - Okay, well, I see that we've got 10 minutes left here 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:56.120 and time goes so quickly, unfortunately, 00:50:56.120 --> 00:50:58.680 but just want to let people that are listening know 00:50:58.680 --> 00:51:02.720 this is Ask Your Herb Doctor, KMUD 91.1 FM. 00:51:02.720 --> 00:51:06.080 We've interviewed Dr. A.M. and Peat, thankfully, 00:51:06.080 --> 00:51:09.320 for quite a while and he's spoken on many different subjects 00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:11.640 and he's mentioned many different eminent scientists 00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:15.320 in that time and that, fortunately, the step has been made 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:17.360 where these two gentlemen filmmakers 00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:20.000 that we're interviewing now have actually gone 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:22.160 and interviewed these eight scientists 00:51:22.160 --> 00:51:23.640 and they're actually talking about interviewing 00:51:23.640 --> 00:51:26.200 quite a few more, but they are in the process 00:51:26.200 --> 00:51:28.960 of producing a documentary and they do have, 00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:33.480 excuse me, a very good clip, a taste of things to come. 00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:36.280 If only people will go there and see what's going on. 00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:41.280 Their website is www.perceivethinkact.com. 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:45.160 - And the name of the documentary that's in progress 00:51:45.160 --> 00:51:47.120 is On the Back of a Tiger. 00:51:47.120 --> 00:51:50.200 - Okay, so let's just go on to Danny Roddy 00:51:50.200 --> 00:51:51.720 and his background. 00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:54.480 He's probably the only non-doctor so far, isn't he? 00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:55.640 - So far, yeah. 00:51:55.640 --> 00:51:57.960 There's sort of two sides to the film 00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:00.160 and we've focused so far on the scientists, 00:52:00.200 --> 00:52:04.800 but the other piece is what we've been calling 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.640 the health seekers, people who have used this information 00:52:07.640 --> 00:52:11.320 to empower themselves and take their health 00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:13.000 into their own hands. 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.520 And he's someone who's had his own health journey 00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:18.840 and now he's, I guess you'd call him a health blogger. 00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:23.160 His main focus is on hair loss specifically, 00:52:23.160 --> 00:52:28.080 but he's, I think, probably read almost anything 00:52:28.080 --> 00:52:30.960 that is available that Ray has written ever. 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:31.800 - Okay. 00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:36.680 - And he's got no formal academic background, 00:52:36.680 --> 00:52:40.400 but he's learned an incredible amount on his own. 00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:45.880 And I think really had a huge journey 00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:50.880 learning to understand his own metabolism and stress. 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:53.960 - And he's applied this to himself 00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.560 and this has been something kind of groundbreaking. 00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:00.000 I think it's Stoltz moment where he's, wow. 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.560 - Exactly. 00:53:02.560 --> 00:53:05.640 Yeah, he's been on, I think, the roller coaster 00:53:05.640 --> 00:53:07.680 that a lot of us can relate to 00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:11.080 with trying to solve your own health problems 00:53:11.080 --> 00:53:14.800 and thankfully has come out on top with a, 00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:18.360 and now able to connect with people. 00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:19.960 I think that's why he connects so well with people 00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:22.880 is he's been where a lot of people are now 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:27.880 and has the gift of taking those very complex 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:30.080 scientific theories and translating them 00:53:30.080 --> 00:53:32.800 so anyone can understand them. 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:33.640 - Yeah, good. 00:53:33.640 --> 00:53:34.880 I mean, that's always been the challenge, isn't it? 00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:38.160 Science is sometimes so chewy. 00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:40.120 It's a lot to get your teeth into sometimes 00:53:40.120 --> 00:53:42.600 and sometimes the language is almost a different language 00:53:42.600 --> 00:53:44.800 and therefore it needs a translation to put it 00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.560 into a context of everyday language 00:53:47.560 --> 00:53:49.280 so people can truly understand it. 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:50.760 I think that's what we try and do with Dr. Peake 00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.440 is sometimes he's very scientific sometimes 00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:54.720 and other times, you know, 00:53:54.720 --> 00:53:56.440 doesn't sound quite so difficult to understand. 00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:58.560 - Well, it depends who he's talking to. 00:53:58.560 --> 00:54:00.280 Sometimes when it was just you and Dr. Peake 00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:02.240 on the radio show, you guys got a little carried away 00:54:02.240 --> 00:54:03.920 in science 'cause you were talking to each other. 00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:04.760 - Anyway, anyway. 00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:06.680 - Pardon my interference there. 00:54:06.680 --> 00:54:09.480 - Okay, so you actually went and interviewed Dr. Peake. 00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:12.120 Dr. Peake, he's probably the unwitting star of the show, 00:54:12.120 --> 00:54:15.200 but you interviewed Dr. Peake here 00:54:15.200 --> 00:54:18.080 and obviously you got to share with him 00:54:18.080 --> 00:54:19.280 and he got to share with you 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:23.400 and what I can gather is that, again, 00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:26.200 I think he's kind of unifying the theories 00:54:26.200 --> 00:54:28.160 of all these different scientists 00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:32.600 and applying it to health and the perspective of health 00:54:32.600 --> 00:54:34.640 and kind of meeting the challenges 00:54:34.640 --> 00:54:38.560 of the way health and medicine is working or not working 00:54:38.560 --> 00:54:39.840 in this day and age with people 00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:43.160 and how dogma is just so entrenched 00:54:43.160 --> 00:54:46.080 as is the ego, I think, in the science community 00:54:46.080 --> 00:54:48.360 that it fails to see sometimes the obvious 00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:52.560 and doesn't allow that ego to fall to one side 00:54:52.560 --> 00:54:54.120 to let the facts come through 00:54:54.120 --> 00:54:56.600 and then support them by being a little bit out 00:54:56.600 --> 00:54:58.560 on the edge of the field, as it were. 00:54:58.560 --> 00:55:00.160 So you interviewed Dr. Peake 00:55:00.160 --> 00:55:02.120 and unfortunately I know we've only got five minutes left, 00:55:02.120 --> 00:55:04.080 but you can talk briefly about Dr. Peake, 00:55:04.080 --> 00:55:05.680 but let us have a little bit of time 00:55:05.680 --> 00:55:09.480 just to remind people where they can find out more about you 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.320 because you've got a great film that you put in together. 00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:15.680 So Dr. Peake, very briefly, 00:55:15.680 --> 00:55:17.520 you got a couple of minutes, I think. 00:55:18.280 --> 00:55:20.360 (laughs) 00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:23.000 - So, well, one of the, you know, 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:25.640 the thing about the working scientists 00:55:25.640 --> 00:55:27.080 and people who've spent their life in science 00:55:27.080 --> 00:55:29.840 is they focus on a little tiny area 00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:33.320 and they're not usually fully aware of the larger context 00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:35.560 that they may be helping to expand. 00:55:35.560 --> 00:55:39.640 And so I think Ray's work, 00:55:39.640 --> 00:55:44.560 it kind of puts all of these people into a paradigm 00:55:44.560 --> 00:55:48.400 that all makes sense together into a much more holistic view. 00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:51.200 - And really, what is the worth 00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:54.160 of all of this scientific inquiry 00:55:54.160 --> 00:55:57.040 if you can't apply it practically 00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:58.320 to people's health and nutrition? 00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:01.520 And I think that's where nearly everyone we've interviewed 00:56:01.520 --> 00:56:04.800 somewhat misses the mark 00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:07.240 in that they don't think about it that way. 00:56:07.240 --> 00:56:09.840 They don't think, well, how does this apply to me? 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:11.520 - They're looking down the microscope. 00:56:11.520 --> 00:56:12.800 - Exactly. - Yes, yeah. 00:56:13.040 --> 00:56:17.280 And that's where one of the many realms 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:20.640 where Dr. Peat's work resonates with us 00:56:20.640 --> 00:56:22.000 and so many other people. 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:26.760 - And I also think that Dr. Peat helps people 00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:29.000 take their health into their own hands 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.640 and he encourages them and gets them to start looking 00:56:31.640 --> 00:56:34.040 at what do you feel like after you eat that food 00:56:34.040 --> 00:56:36.560 or what do you feel like after you do that? 00:56:36.560 --> 00:56:37.960 And that is so important 00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:42.960 because we are the ones that know ourselves the best 00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.320 and a doctor teaching a patient to do that 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:48.400 is very, very contrary 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:51.960 to the authoritarian medical system we have today. 00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.360 - And it's funny, it's kind of surreal 00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:57.400 being on your show tonight 00:56:57.400 --> 00:57:01.040 because your show, it's one of the few resources 00:57:01.040 --> 00:57:05.880 to hear Dr. Peat talk on so many different subjects 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:07.960 and Brad and I both have spent so much time 00:57:07.960 --> 00:57:11.280 listening to your recorded shows as research for the film. 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:13.560 So thanks. - Yeah, interesting. 00:57:13.560 --> 00:57:14.640 I didn't even-- - Thanks for your interest. 00:57:14.640 --> 00:57:17.400 - Yeah, we're finally on the other side. 00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:19.640 - I didn't even know this until about three days ago, folks. 00:57:19.640 --> 00:57:24.640 But anyway, I'd heard about Brad and Jeremy, 00:57:24.640 --> 00:57:28.520 oh, in early, I think late 2013 00:57:28.520 --> 00:57:29.600 and they said what they were gonna do 00:57:29.600 --> 00:57:32.000 and I was like, okay, great, sounds like a great idea. 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.160 And we've been back and forth with a few emails 00:57:35.160 --> 00:57:37.440 but we never got to actually meet or talk 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.040 and then the next thing I was, they've done it. 00:57:40.040 --> 00:57:41.520 (laughing) 00:57:41.520 --> 00:57:42.800 So I take my hat off to you 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:45.120 and I know that you probably really enjoyed it 00:57:45.120 --> 00:57:48.840 and I think you're gonna certainly exceed 00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:51.360 most people's expectations 00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.840 and I really wish both of you the very best in your work. 00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:56.680 - Thanks so much. 00:57:56.680 --> 00:57:58.840 - And also in getting the funding 00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:02.160 that is gonna be necessary here to put this together. 00:58:02.160 --> 00:58:04.400 - Yeah, the first, the very first post 00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:06.480 if you go to our site, perceivethinkac.com 00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:09.280 has a link to the Kickstarter campaign 00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:12.320 where you can donate or share around 00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:14.360 with friends and family. 00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:17.560 - I know it's doing pretty good, so that's a good sign. 00:58:17.560 --> 00:58:22.160 - And lastly, Dr. Peat, can you comment on the film 00:58:22.160 --> 00:58:24.040 that Jeremy and Brad are producing here? 00:58:24.040 --> 00:58:25.040 - In about a minute. 00:58:25.040 --> 00:58:28.560 - Well, the bits that I've seen, 00:58:28.560 --> 00:58:33.560 it's very much fun to watch those people 00:58:34.120 --> 00:58:39.120 I had seen, I spoke briefly to Gilbert Ling in 1971, 00:58:39.120 --> 00:58:46.120 but it's good to see the newer stuff 00:58:46.120 --> 00:58:48.160 about him and the others. 00:58:48.160 --> 00:58:50.600 - Well, if it wasn't for people like you, Dr. Peat, 00:58:50.600 --> 00:58:52.720 and all the people that Jeremy and Brad 00:58:52.720 --> 00:58:54.240 have actually gone and seen and videoed 00:58:54.240 --> 00:58:58.440 and gotten real life footage of, 00:58:58.440 --> 00:58:59.640 it wouldn't be able to reach people 00:58:59.640 --> 00:59:02.440 and people wouldn't get to know about such alternatives. 00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:04.360 So in keeping alternatives alive, 00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.840 I thank all of the three of you for being here 00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:08.520 and you, Dr. Peat, I didn't even know 00:59:08.520 --> 00:59:10.880 you were gonna be on the air, but thanks so much. 00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:11.720 (laughs) 00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:13.440 - Thank you for all your time. 00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:14.360 - Okay, so-- - Yes, thanks. 00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:15.200 Thank you, everyone. 00:59:15.200 --> 00:59:16.280 - You're very welcome. - Appreciate it. 00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:21.280 - Okay, so until the third Friday of next month, 00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:22.440 my name's Andrew Murray. 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:23.960 - My name's Sarah Johanneson Murray. 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:28.240 - And we can be reached 1-888-WBM-ERB 00:59:28.240 --> 00:59:29.600 Monday through Friday or any time. 00:59:29.600 --> 00:59:31.600 In fact, people just want to contact us 00:59:31.600 --> 00:59:33.760 for whatever it is. 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:38.600 So our website also is www.westernbotanicalmedicine.com 00:59:38.600 --> 00:59:42.240 and don't forget, Perceive, Think, Act. 00:59:42.240 --> 00:59:43.640 So that's the best way you wanna go, 00:59:43.640 --> 00:59:45.840 www.perceivethinkact. 00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:47.680 It's really very interesting. 00:59:47.680 --> 00:59:48.720 You should see it. 00:59:48.720 --> 00:59:53.720 - And Dr. Raymond Peat's website is www.raymondPeat.com.