WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.640 Well once again welcome and thank you for tuning in to this month's Ask Your Herb Doctor. 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:05.640 My name is Andrew Murray. 00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:11.400 For those of you who perhaps have never listened to the show before, we have a very special 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:15.200 guest speaker with us, Dr. Raymond Peat. 00:00:15.200 --> 00:00:19.200 There is the odd occasion where people have called in and they've never heard him before, 00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:23.400 but I know a lot of people that are listening to the show are listening purely to glimpse 00:00:23.400 --> 00:00:27.520 some of his insights because I know he's always got a different answer for things. 00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:34.520 The number here if you're in the area is 707-986-923-3911 or there's an 800 number for people outside 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:37.960 the area code which is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:42.440 From 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o'clock you're invited to call in with any questions 00:00:42.440 --> 00:00:48.080 either related or unrelated to this month's topic of Cal Prop 65, California's Proposition 00:00:48.080 --> 00:00:49.080 65. 00:00:49.080 --> 00:00:54.340 I started very briefly towards the end of July's show saying I wanted to bring out some 00:00:54.340 --> 00:01:00.160 inconsistencies or incongruencies with Prop 65 in the legislature in California and we'll 00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:02.760 be bringing Dr. Peat on here in probably 10 or 15 minutes. 00:01:02.760 --> 00:01:09.960 I wanted to outline some specific testing that we've done personally for products as 00:01:09.960 --> 00:01:16.260 part of GMP protocol for ICP-MS testing of metals and specifically for the California 00:01:16.260 --> 00:01:20.980 Proposition 65 metals which are arsenic, cadmium, lead and mercury. 00:01:20.980 --> 00:01:27.220 So what I wanted to start with was the 1986 California voters approved initiative to address 00:01:27.220 --> 00:01:31.520 their growing concerns about exposure to toxic chemicals and that initiative became the Safe 00:01:31.520 --> 00:01:36.220 Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986 better known by its original name of 00:01:36.220 --> 00:01:37.220 Prop 65. 00:01:37.220 --> 00:01:41.460 Now Prop 65 requires the state to publish a list of chemicals known to cause cancer 00:01:41.460 --> 00:01:43.940 or birth defects or other reproductive harm. 00:01:43.940 --> 00:01:47.860 This list which must be updated at least once a year has grown to include approximately 00:01:47.860 --> 00:01:53.180 800 chemicals since it was first published in 1987 and Prop 65 requires businesses to 00:01:53.180 --> 00:01:57.540 notify Californians about significant amounts of chemicals in the products they purchase 00:01:57.540 --> 00:02:00.780 in their homes or workplaces or that are released into the environment. 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:05.180 By providing this information Prop 65 enables Californians to make informed decisions about 00:02:05.180 --> 00:02:09.960 protecting themselves from exposure to these chemicals and Prop 65 also prohibits California 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:14.360 businesses from knowingly discharging significant amounts of listed chemicals into sources of 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:15.360 drinking water. 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:16.360 Hooray you say. 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:21.380 The Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment, the OEHHA, as only these acronyms 00:02:21.380 --> 00:02:25.780 can be so stupendously long, administers the Prop 65 program. 00:02:25.780 --> 00:02:31.080 OEHHA which is part of the California Environmental Protection Agency also evaluates all currently 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.860 available scientific information on substances considered for placement on the Prop 65 list. 00:02:35.860 --> 00:02:41.020 Now two months ago and the month prior to that, it was June, May, June and July, we 00:02:41.020 --> 00:02:48.200 did a program with Dr. Peat on progesterone explaining how the marginalization and demonization 00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:53.980 if you like actually of progesterone is completely wrong and how the scientific evidence to put 00:02:53.980 --> 00:02:59.420 it on the Prop 65 list was completely erroneous and there are very very innocuous products 00:02:59.420 --> 00:03:03.800 that are on the Prop 65 list that you probably have never never heard of or never imagined 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:04.800 could be on there. 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:11.880 But Prop 65 labels are just becoming increasingly apparent in stores especially in the supplement 00:03:11.880 --> 00:03:12.880 departments. 00:03:12.880 --> 00:03:16.320 We walk the aisles of the supplement departments and take a look at whatever products you're 00:03:16.320 --> 00:03:21.720 looking at for alternative health care and you often find these small Prop 65 labels 00:03:21.720 --> 00:03:27.160 stuck on the bottles just purely saying that the products may contain chemicals known to 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:31.560 the state of California to cause reproductive harm or cancer and as we'll find out it's 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:33.480 a lot of litigation here. 00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:38.600 It's not really factual and I'm going to bring out some very striking incongruencies here. 00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:42.920 Now a chemical can either be listed if either of two independent committees or scientists 00:03:42.920 --> 00:03:46.800 and health professionals find that the chemical is being clearly shown to cause cancer or 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.760 birth defects or other reproductive harm and these two committees, the Carcinogen Identification 00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:56.800 Committee, the CIC and a Developmental and Reproductive Toxicant Identification, this 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:02.240 is the DART, they're part of OHHAS's Science Advisory Board. 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.880 The committee members are appointed by the governor and are designated as the state's 00:04:05.880 --> 00:04:10.720 qualified experts and these are experts for evaluating chemicals under Prop 65. 00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:14.480 When determining whether a chemical should be placed on the list the committees base 00:04:14.480 --> 00:04:18.960 their decision on the most current scientific information available and the OHHAS staff 00:04:18.960 --> 00:04:23.920 scientists compile all relevant scientific evidence on various chemicals for the committees 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:24.920 to review. 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.920 The committees also consider comments from the public before making their decisions. 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:28.920 So that's the first way. 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:33.800 The second way for a chemical to be listed is if an organisation designated as an authoritative 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:39.360 body by the CIC or DART, the Identification Committee, has identified it as causing cancer 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:41.600 or birth defects or other reproductive harm. 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:46.540 The following organisations have been designated as authoritative bodies, the US Environmental 00:04:46.540 --> 00:04:51.320 Protection Agency, the US Food and Drug Administration, National Institute for Occupational Safety 00:04:51.320 --> 00:04:55.400 and Health, the National Toxicology Programme and the International Agency for Research 00:04:55.400 --> 00:04:56.400 on Cancer. 00:04:56.400 --> 00:05:01.200 The third way for a chemical to be listed is if an agency of the state or federal government 00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:05.340 requires that it be labelled or identified as causing cancer or birth defects or other 00:05:05.340 --> 00:05:06.680 reproductive harm. 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.800 Now most chemicals listed in this manner are prescription drugs that are required by the 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:16.080 US FDA contain warnings relating to cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm. 00:05:16.080 --> 00:05:18.520 We've seen plenty of drugs like that. 00:05:18.520 --> 00:05:23.400 Now the fourth way requires the listing of chemicals meeting certain scientific criteria 00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:27.600 and identified in the California Labour Code as causing cancer or birth defects or other 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:28.760 reproductive harm. 00:05:28.760 --> 00:05:33.720 And this method established the initial chemical list following voter approval of Prop 65 in 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:37.760 1986 and continues to be used as the basis for listing as appropriate. 00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:38.760 Now how about this? 00:05:38.760 --> 00:05:43.400 Businesses with less than 10 employees and government agencies are exempt from Proposition 00:05:43.400 --> 00:05:47.760 65 warning requirements and prohibition on discharges into water drinking sources. 00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:49.120 OK, did you catch that? 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:53.420 So if your business has less than 10 employees or you're a government agency, you're completely 00:05:53.420 --> 00:05:58.560 exempt from discharging waste into drinking water and the relevant Prop 65 warnings. 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:03.660 So Proposition 65's warning requirement has provided, on the upside, an incentive for 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:06.800 manufacturers to remove listed chemicals from their products. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:11.680 For example, trichloroethylene, which causes cancer, is no longer used in most correction 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.760 fluids for wiping out type. 00:06:13.760 --> 00:06:18.520 Reformulated paint strippers do not contain the carcinogen methylene chloride and toluene, 00:06:18.520 --> 00:06:22.560 which causes birth defects or other reproductive harm, has been removed from many nail care 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:23.560 products. 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.160 In addition, the Prop 65 enforcement action prompted manufacturers to decrease the lead 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:31.760 content in ceramic tableware and wineries to eliminate the use of lead-containing foil 00:06:31.760 --> 00:06:33.080 caps on wine bottles. 00:06:33.080 --> 00:06:38.120 So whilst the Prop has some very positive benefits, it drastically needs reframing within 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:39.600 a realistic criteria. 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.480 How can a business with fewer than 10 employees be exempt from a legislation that would sue 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.780 a larger company producing the same product? 00:06:45.780 --> 00:06:50.640 And how is it that commonly available foodstuffs are far over the maximum reliable daily limit 00:06:50.640 --> 00:06:53.120 currently in place and legislated for by Prop 65? 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:58.040 It seems the only winners from Proposition 65 are the attorneys who bring the lawsuits, 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.000 and there are some additional facts that are not so commonly known. 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:05.720 Now, chief amongst these are, since Californians have been warned of possible carcinogens for 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:10.520 the past 27 years, one would expect to see a decline in cancer rates compared to those 00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:13.440 states that didn't adopt similar right-to-know laws. 00:07:13.440 --> 00:07:15.200 In fact, no such decline exists. 00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:19.360 There isn't a single medical study that demonstrates any public health benefits of Proposition 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.400 65, and there is no evidence that Prop 65 has lowered cancer incidence amongst Californians. 00:07:24.400 --> 00:07:25.400 Most startling. 00:07:25.400 --> 00:07:30.200 Proposition 65 has been a bonanza for the bounty hunter law firms that drive such lawsuits 00:07:30.200 --> 00:07:31.880 using paid plaintiffs. 00:07:31.880 --> 00:07:39.440 Between 2000 and 2011, there were 2,381 settlements that cost targets nearly $180 million, exclusive 00:07:39.440 --> 00:07:41.920 of plaintiffs' legal costs and court costs. 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:48.400 Sadly, the systematic legalized abuses surrounding Prop 65 have resulted in all too real economic 00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:50.560 effects on individuals as well as their employers. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.720 Our workers suffer lower income or job security in affected businesses, and the California 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:58.520 government has had to spend taxpayer money for administrative and court costs relating 00:07:58.520 --> 00:07:59.520 to the law. 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:03.920 So let's look at some real-world examples of actual values for some Prop 65 chemicals 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:08.340 that I've personal experience working with, and being GMP-compliant, we have to periodically 00:08:08.340 --> 00:08:11.080 test our products for the so-called California Big Four. 00:08:11.080 --> 00:08:14.080 So these are, as I said, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury. 00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:15.080 How do we do this? 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:20.080 The most common process now is called ICP-MS. 00:08:20.080 --> 00:08:24.920 It's inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry, and one of the most sophisticated technologies 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:29.520 to date, to quantify components to detect levels down to three parts per billion. 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:35.600 So typically a PPB, part per billion, quantification is what's used, and typically that detection 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.360 limit is about four parts per billion, as low as it can go. 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:44.280 It may well change as time goes on and technology improves, but certainly much more sophisticated 00:08:44.280 --> 00:08:47.000 than the previous calibrations for it. 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:52.000 Now Prop 65 components of natural medicinal herbs which are tested by ICP-MS include, 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.560 as I said, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury. 00:08:54.560 --> 00:09:00.160 Now for above-ground foliage, the analysis shows typical ranges in the low teens to 60s 00:09:00.160 --> 00:09:05.000 of parts per billion, not of mercury typically, but for cadmium, arsenic, and lead. 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:10.320 Sub-analysis, typical ranges mid-twenties to hundreds, depending on the location grown 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:11.320 and the species. 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:15.600 Now I'll just give you a quote here from some before and after extraction results that we've 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:16.600 done personally. 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.160 We'd purchase a product, we would spot check it for confirmation of a vendor certificate, 00:09:22.160 --> 00:09:24.880 send it off and get an ICP-MS analysis for it. 00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:29.440 Once the product's cleared QC and has been produced, that extract is also then sent off 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:35.680 for ICP-MS analysis and then we can see what kind of product we've produced or what the 00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:40.400 extraction process has done for the metals that may have been present in the raw material. 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:42.880 So turmeric root, have a think about that will you? 00:09:42.880 --> 00:09:45.440 Lots of people eat turmeric for its health benefits. 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:49.520 It's documented anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer activity are published and have been known 00:09:49.520 --> 00:09:51.720 for some time, especially in Ayurvedic medicine. 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:55.960 Now the quantity, typical quantity in raw root was as follows. 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:03.520 Arsenic 395 parts per billion, cadmium 41.9, lead 646 and fortunately mercury was undetected. 00:10:03.520 --> 00:10:07.200 So after extraction, the liquid extract was retested and came back with the following 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:08.200 report. 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:13.240 Arsenic 68.1, cadmium undetected, lead 6.6, mercury undetected. 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:16.160 Another fairly common herb, Lobelia. 00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:22.640 Arsenic was 43.9, cadmium 79.6, lead 357 and mercury 10.2. 00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:25.840 Now after extraction, the liquid extract was retested and came back with the following 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:29.240 report where all the tested elements were actually below the detection limit. 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:32.200 And then Echinacea root, people are very familiar with Echinacea. 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:38.200 The arsenic there was 115 and the cadmium came back at 20.5 and the lead was 17.3 and 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:40.280 mercury in that sample was undetected. 00:10:40.280 --> 00:10:44.080 And then after extraction, the liquid extract was retested and came back with the following 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:48.120 report arsenic 5.9, cadmium, lead and mercury undetected. 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.620 In fact, in all of the ICP-MS testing that we've done, which is extensive, extraction 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:57.900 produces a 5 to 10 fold and above removal of any existing raw material components listed 00:10:57.900 --> 00:11:03.580 by Prop 65 and resulting in the maximum allowable daily limits, which are well within Prop 65's 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:05.560 legislatively directed values. 00:11:05.560 --> 00:11:09.680 In many cases, the raw material would fall outside the allowable exposure. 00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:12.900 But what I really want to point out was the foodstuffs we had tested. 00:11:12.900 --> 00:11:18.080 So crab, we had crab tested and this is local crab here from Sheldacove on the Pacific coast 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:19.080 here. 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:21.520 So crab, arsenic came back at 12,400. 00:11:21.520 --> 00:11:25.680 So previous herbs would be things like 395, 43 and 115. 00:11:25.680 --> 00:11:27.880 The crab was 12,400. 00:11:27.880 --> 00:11:32.840 Now when I spoke to the scientists at the lab that tested this, they did offer the consolation 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:38.420 that this arsenic was not potentially a toxic product and that they could do specific speciation 00:11:38.420 --> 00:11:44.240 for this to find out whether or not the actual amount of toxic arsenic was as high as it 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:45.240 looked like. 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:47.080 So anyway, the cadmium was 10.4. 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:51.720 The lead was 10.3 and mercury was 109, 109 parts per billion mercury. 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:57.880 Now this vastly exceeds the maximum allowable daily limits set by Prop 65, given you conceivably 00:11:57.880 --> 00:12:02.920 consume 8 to 10 ounces of crab in one serving compared with a half teaspoon dose of extract 00:12:02.920 --> 00:12:05.000 taken one to three times per day. 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:06.320 Now how about this, cod. 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:10.520 We tested cod and the cod came back with an arsenic count of 115. 00:12:10.520 --> 00:12:12.900 Actually the cadmium was less than 9.4. 00:12:12.900 --> 00:12:17.420 The lead came back at 30.3 and mercury was 473 parts per billion. 00:12:17.420 --> 00:12:21.680 So eating a 12 ounce portion of this would give you way higher exposure to methylmercury, 00:12:21.680 --> 00:12:25.480 the most toxic and abundant oceanic form that we get exposed to. 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:26.840 Okay, but it gets worse. 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:28.640 Halibut, we tested some halibut. 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:29.640 Arsenic was 602. 00:12:29.640 --> 00:12:31.640 Cadmium, it was down to 9.2. 00:12:31.640 --> 00:12:36.000 The lead was 23 and mercury was 794 parts per billion. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.420 Again with a serving amount typically of 8 to 10 ounces. 00:12:38.420 --> 00:12:41.200 So the last thing I did was for seafood was salmon. 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.160 There was a young fish, it was about a nine pound fish, so it was quite a small one. 00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:47.840 And obviously we'll get into the whole predation thing and the food chain accumulation, et 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:49.240 cetera, which became pretty evident. 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.240 So this nine pound fish came in slightly better with these values. 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:57.960 Arsenic was 428, cadmium 10.1, lead was less than 10.1, mercury was 72. 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:02.360 So still with a much higher MADL set by Prop 65, whichever way you cut it. 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:07.440 So legislation for dietary supplement manufacturers imposes stringent maximum allowable daily 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:12.640 limits set by Prop 65 values, which pale into insignificance when compared to seafood, for 00:13:12.640 --> 00:13:13.640 example. 00:13:13.640 --> 00:13:17.600 Now we also tested some elk meat, which had been hunted and it was not surprising that 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:18.600 it was very clean. 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:23.680 Now the only detectable component was arsenic and it had a value of 64.7, but lead, mercury 00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:24.680 and cadmium were undetected. 00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:29.960 So I just wanted to say that terrestrial roots and foliage crops naturally sequester minerals 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.800 found in a rock, which form the soil in which they grow. 00:13:32.800 --> 00:13:37.080 And pollution in industrial countries that's airborne finds its way back to the soil by 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:42.440 being washed out in rains or as fallout from airborne particulates heavier than air, characterizing 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:48.040 Asian or Indian farm products subjected to the conditions reminiscent of the era of industrialization 00:13:48.040 --> 00:13:49.040 in Europe. 00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:51.360 The products I mentioned were all certified organic, by the way. 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.760 Now terrestrial and oceanic life grazing on foliage or consuming other animals sequester 00:13:55.760 --> 00:13:57.200 these accumulated products. 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:01.240 And the higher up the food chain, the higher the value in the animal as seen from our experiments. 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:06.800 Now the whole point is the meaning of any initiative like Prop 65 to save us from harm 00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:11.680 has to be weighed both by the freedoms lost as a result of government being in charge 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:16.200 to look after us, rather than we the people as a self-governing body with practical and 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.520 reasonable jurisprudence, not dictated by our control for higher bounty hunters, but 00:14:20.520 --> 00:14:23.480 by common sense, which seems to have gone the way of the dinosaurs. 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:28.840 Now I know when I'd spoken to Dr. Peat preparing some of the material for two months ago, looking 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.760 at progesterone, that progesterone was on the Prop 65 list. 00:14:32.760 --> 00:14:41.600 And we went through the science and the committee papers that were used as "evidence" for suspecting 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:48.640 progesterone as a mitogen or as a cancer promoter, when actually Dr. Peat is very familiar with 00:14:48.640 --> 00:14:54.440 the whole progesterone tobacco and having studied hormones, especially progesterone 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.440 as one of his thesis past his PhD. 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:00.160 So Dr. Peat, are you on here? 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:04.200 OK, well, sorry to have blathered on here for 20 minutes with what I was first talking 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:05.200 about. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:11.760 But in terms of Proposition 65 and its actual effects to the consumer, don't you think that 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:17.920 some of this is a little bit out of control in terms of writing laws for it and giving 00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:25.200 amounts which they say, they clearly say, that they're using a 1,000 times safety factor? 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:30.800 So I know for progesterone that you're very aware of how maligned it was and there was 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:35.720 absolutely no real evidence for it because the test that they did on the beagles, etc., 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:38.160 was really pretty poor scientific process. 00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:44.800 But in terms of Prop 65, do you have any thoughts on it in terms of how it affects people or 00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:47.080 what you think the government are doing? 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:49.080 Well, the way the committee is set up... 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:51.960 Dr. Peat, could you speak up a bit? 00:15:51.960 --> 00:16:00.800 People in charge of choosing the evidence are appointed and they are basically able 00:16:00.800 --> 00:16:05.200 to lobby for products that they're associated with. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:11.440 When I was in contact with the agency about 10 years ago, three of the members were from 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.200 a single university. 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.400 These three all had conflicts of interest. 00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:25.440 One woman was a representative of a company developing transdermal products, including 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:26.440 hormones. 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:33.160 Two of the people were connected with the development of a new approach to birth control 00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:38.760 which involves the suppression of progesterone. 00:16:38.760 --> 00:16:45.560 The articles that were chosen, supposedly all relevant evidence relating to the carcinogenicity 00:16:45.560 --> 00:16:48.480 of a substance are to be considered. 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:54.720 Fewer than 1% of the articles relating to progesterone and cancer were even listed. 00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:00.240 And of those, two of them were about a totally different substance, a carcinogenic synthetic 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.520 progestin. 00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:08.800 And one of the articles that they cited as evidence of the carcinogenicity of the actual 00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:17.240 substance progesterone was actually someone's attempt to refute a famous publication showing 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:20.800 that progesterone prevents and cures cancer. 00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:28.400 And this publication was used explicitly a method that the one they were trying to refute, 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:31.920 a method that they said previously didn't work at all. 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:38.360 So they used a known false method to supposedly invalidate the evidence showing that progesterone 00:17:38.360 --> 00:17:44.400 cures cancer and that was listed by the committee as evidence that progesterone causes cancer. 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:50.520 It was like the people were basically drunk when they were choosing the papers. 00:17:50.520 --> 00:17:55.880 I asked the chairman of the committee for the names of the people who made those crazy 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:02.680 choices of evidence and she said they were too busy to give me that information. 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:09.400 My impression was that it was not really a regulatory agency in public interest. 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:11.520 It was a promoting product. 00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:14.280 On a pay-for-view basis. 00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:15.280 Yeah. 00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:22.000 And the university that these people worked for, I looked at their research support. 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:28.800 I forget the number, many, there were dozens of grants promoting arguments. 00:18:28.800 --> 00:18:33.720 Which gave the impression that estrogen was therapeutic for many different things. 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.200 And I looked for how much they had on progesterone. 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:43.400 They had two or three research grants which were aimed to show that progesterone was harmful. 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:51.840 And this was 10 years ago, just three years after the Women's International Health Study 00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:59.440 showed that the combination of estrogen and synthetic progesterone caused cancer, stroke, 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.400 dementia, heart disease, blood clots and with... 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.600 Would you be able to get a little closer to the microphone or the phone? 00:19:06.600 --> 00:19:09.920 I think the engineer is trying to tell me that you're coming in very quietly. 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:10.920 Okay. 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:20.000 The result of that study, Women's International Health Study, showed that those negative results 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:29.680 resulted in an extreme rejection by women of the use of that combination of synthetic 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:31.640 progesterone and estrogen. 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:39.160 And there was an 80% decrease in the use of that particular prescription form of progesterone 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:42.480 plus estrogen with the loss to... 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:46.080 One company lost billions in sales. 00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:52.920 Everyone invested in promoting estrogen, especially with the synthetic progesterone. 00:19:52.920 --> 00:20:00.440 Their main profit-making product being becoming very unpopular. 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:07.080 And suddenly, at the same time when estrogen sales were falling, progesterone sales had 00:20:07.080 --> 00:20:09.160 increased 100-fold. 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:16.920 And suddenly, money became available to research progesterone as a toxic substance. 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:23.080 And since that time, since the early years right after the study came out, there has 00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:31.000 been just a flood of people researching progesterone as a brain toxin, a carcinogen and so on. 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:37.640 When you examine each one of these, they're doing things known previously to produce the 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:39.560 results look bad. 00:20:39.560 --> 00:20:45.880 For example, progesterone is known to reverse a brain tumor. 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:53.240 They were using about 100 times smaller dose and claiming that it caused the tumor and 00:20:53.240 --> 00:21:00.240 finding changes in breast tissue that they said was associated with breast cancer to 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:05.200 distract attention from the studies that showed that it reversed and prevented breast cancer. 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:11.280 Okay, you're listening to Ask Europe, Dr. Ron K. Medea, Garboville 91.1 FM from 7.30, 00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:13.160 that's now until the end of the show at 8 o'clock. 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:17.200 You're invited to call in any questions related or unrelated to this month's discussion here 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:23.760 of CalProp 65 and its effects and also we'll be, like I said, opening up for questions 00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:25.120 that don't have to be surrounded. 00:21:25.120 --> 00:21:29.880 And I do have some questions that have been previously written that I want to ask Dr. 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.120 Peat about his feedback. 00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:37.600 So Dr. Peat, I guess not to labor the CalProp 65 thing anymore other than to just explain 00:21:37.600 --> 00:21:43.880 that there certainly is a, isn't it the way always in government, no, there's certainly 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:49.240 interested parties for and against certain things happening and obviously collusion between 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:55.080 companies especially when there's plenty of money involved to protect vested interests. 00:21:55.080 --> 00:21:58.760 But I think if people ever wanted to find out more about this, and I mentioned this 00:21:58.760 --> 00:22:05.920 on the last radio show that Dr. Carla Rottenberg's PhD dissertation was basically exposing all 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:12.160 of the bad evidence, all the bad scientific, supposedly scientific reasons for which we're 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:16.640 given that progesterone was to be deemed fit for the list. 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:21.840 I was actually very inconsistent and she clearly outlines the mistakes that were made. 00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:26.880 But like anything else in big government, I think it's just extremely difficult to get 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.640 it to change, just like trying to change the direction of an oil tanker once it's moving 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:31.640 in a certain direction. 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:32.640 It takes a long time. 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:37.520 It's taken how many years here to get people to stop, well hopefully stop consuming liquid 00:22:37.520 --> 00:22:41.800 oils and recognize the fact that the brainwashing surrounding saturated fats is actually very 00:22:41.800 --> 00:22:45.280 wrong and that people are actually much better off using saturated fats. 00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:46.960 It's probably taken 50 or 60 years. 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:49.400 But anyway, we have a caller on the air. 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:50.680 So let's take this first caller. 00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:52.240 Call away from and what's your question? 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:53.240 Hi there. 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:54.240 My name's Ali. 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:55.240 I'm from Calgary, Alberta. 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:56.240 Okay, hi. 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:01.120 My question is, well, basically a few years ago I developed symptoms of success, such 00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:05.280 as like hirsutism and my voice actually got a lot lower. 00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:09.400 And then about a year after the onset of these traits, I decided to supplement with progesterone 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:11.240 after reading Ray Peat's writing. 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.880 Well, this hormone, it did work wonders for many symptoms. 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.480 However, my voice never went back to normal and a few other things never went back to 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:19.480 normal. 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.560 And it actually also caused extreme irritability. 00:23:22.560 --> 00:23:26.560 So anyway, my question is basically, do you think it's possible to get my singing voice 00:23:26.560 --> 00:23:29.440 back to where I can sing high notes easily again? 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:30.440 How old are you first? 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:31.440 Did you say? 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:32.440 So I'm 23. 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:33.440 23, okay. 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.960 So where is it possible to get your high notes back again? 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:40.760 Because that's one of the main things that have been troubling you that hasn't returned 00:23:40.760 --> 00:23:42.760 is your, you say your voice has deepened. 00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:45.560 Yeah, but, and my singing teacher actually told me that too. 00:23:45.560 --> 00:23:49.120 Like my voice dropped like eight notes or something like that, even my singing voice 00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:50.560 or my speaking voice, sorry. 00:23:50.560 --> 00:23:51.560 Okay. 00:23:51.560 --> 00:23:58.720 Well, her speaking voice doesn't sound as masculinized as many women that I've known 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:07.200 who use androgens by prescription or just who had an ovarian problem with excess androgen 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.200 production. 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:14.880 They very often get voices almost as low as mine, a normal male pitch. 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:24.000 But what happens under the influence of androgens, the way they change the hair follicle involves 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.920 reorganization of the whole structure of the hair follicle. 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:38.520 But since the hair follicle has a finite lifespan, if you interrupt that stimulation consistently, 00:24:38.520 --> 00:24:44.600 like there was a study in France showing women who applied topical progesterone to sideburns 00:24:44.600 --> 00:24:50.560 and mustache and chest hair that had developed under androgen stimulation, they stayed with 00:24:50.560 --> 00:24:57.960 it through the expected life span of these hair follicles and refeminized their facial 00:24:57.960 --> 00:24:58.960 and chest hair. 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:07.160 But in the case of vocal cords, if they actually develop a male pitch, that's because they 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:14.040 have grown and enlarged and it isn't, the whole voice box enlarges. 00:25:14.040 --> 00:25:21.400 And generally you can't see a woman's Adam's apple, like a man's sticks out in proportion 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.120 to how bass their voice is. 00:25:23.120 --> 00:25:30.520 And if the whole cartilage voice box is enlarged, the vocal cords have to adapt and they simply 00:25:30.520 --> 00:25:38.160 don't have any way to get smaller without the framework that's holding them changing. 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:43.880 How long did you say that you were under the influence of this androgenic excess that gave 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:44.880 you the hair stitchism? 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:50.520 It's actually kind of interesting, because it was only for a period of a few months, 00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:53.800 but I was living a very toxic lifestyle. 00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:58.160 My job had me working eight hours, basically walking to and from tables. 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:00.040 I was a waitress and I never got a break. 00:26:00.040 --> 00:26:01.040 I didn't get a chance. 00:26:01.040 --> 00:26:06.600 And so I was like exercising for eight, sometimes 12 hours a day for about three months, four 00:26:06.600 --> 00:26:07.600 days a week. 00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:11.360 And I don't know why it caused that in me, because clearly a lot of waitresses don't 00:26:11.360 --> 00:26:12.640 have that problem. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.840 But I was a girl who had very, very, very high notes before and I had almost, sorry 00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:20.840 if this is too much information, I had almost no body hair at all. 00:26:20.840 --> 00:26:27.080 And then after waitressing, both of those plus other changes happened, and I would call 00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:28.560 it virilization. 00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:32.920 And then it also happened again a few years later when I was waitressing again. 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:37.440 And those were the only times that that's ever happened to me. 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:44.520 Since your voice doesn't really have a masculine quality, it's possible that some of the loss 00:26:44.520 --> 00:26:49.400 of the high notes is the result of swelling or edema. 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:56.440 And often something that suppresses thyroid function will cause edema of the vocal cords. 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:05.040 And just by correcting the thyroid, ideally, the water can quickly be extruded. 00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:10.320 And the cartilage can change shape a little bit by losing some of its excess water. 00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:14.960 And so it would be a good idea to have your thyroid carefully checked. 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:20.840 Check your waking temperature and pulse rate and your midday temperature and pulse rate. 00:27:20.840 --> 00:27:28.080 And if your TSH is not in the lower end of the normal range, then it's possible that 00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:33.240 just a thyroid supplement would raise your range a little bit. 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.240 That's excellent. 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:35.240 Thank you so much for your time. 00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:36.240 Yeah. 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:39.240 By the way, did you ever get your estradiol to progesterone measured? 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.240 Did you ever have that value looked at? 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.480 Well, I actually didn't. 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:48.280 So I had my estrogen measured, and I have the whole thing that was measured a while 00:27:48.280 --> 00:27:49.280 ago. 00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:52.200 And I didn't really pay too much attention to it. 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.920 The estrogen said it was like 60 or something lead test. 00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:58.880 But I know from reading Ray's writing, at least this is how I interpreted it, I was 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.840 under the impression that you can't actually measure estrogen in the blood and it's not 00:28:02.840 --> 00:28:03.840 a good reflection. 00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:04.840 Correct me if I'm wrong. 00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:05.840 Yeah. 00:28:05.840 --> 00:28:09.880 Well, the blood test for estradiol is certainly very relative in terms of it's a subjective 00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:13.760 amount and when your progesterone is measured, there's a very definite ratio between the 00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:15.440 two, which is very... 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:17.240 And he did not measure progesterone. 00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:18.240 Okay. 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:19.240 All right. 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:20.240 All right. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:21.240 Well, thank you for your call. 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.240 Thank you so, so much. 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:23.240 Yeah, you're very welcome. 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:24.240 Okay. 00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.240 So we actually have three callers on the line. 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:26.560 So let's take this next caller on the air. 00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:27.560 Where are you from? 00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:28.560 What's your question? 00:28:28.560 --> 00:28:29.560 Yeah, my name's Jeff, and I actually have two questions. 00:28:29.560 --> 00:28:30.560 He's from New York. 00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:31.560 Okay, cool. 00:28:31.560 --> 00:28:34.360 So the first one is I've actually been doing the doctor diet. 00:28:34.360 --> 00:28:39.960 I've listened to all the shows and what I'm finding is that I'm taking milligrams of natural 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.720 desiccated thyroid twice a day, so it's about three grains a day. 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:49.000 But the pulse in the AM is always right around 60, temperature is anywhere between 97.2. 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:54.760 So then if you go to midday, it's cutting up a little bit to like 70, sorry, to 68, 00:28:54.760 --> 00:28:58.360 69, but it never gets to 75 or 80 ever. 00:28:58.360 --> 00:29:02.720 The temperature never gets above 98.2, maybe rarely, maybe far. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.720 So I'm in good shape. 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:08.880 I follow the diet, 60, and I'm just wondering, I know the range is, you talk about sort of 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.800 pulse and specifically, I know there was a show that gave you questions about what if 00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:16.640 the pulse goes up and temp goes down, all that, but this is pretty basic. 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:18.600 It's like in the morning, what should it be? 00:29:18.600 --> 00:29:21.400 And at midday, what should it be relative to what I just gave you? 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:23.040 And what would you do to change that? 00:29:23.040 --> 00:29:24.040 That's the first question. 00:29:24.040 --> 00:29:25.040 Okay. 00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:27.920 And the second question, and part of the other thing is I found through this process, a lot 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:31.800 of things have gotten better, mental clarity, all physical symptoms, temp time, actually 00:29:31.800 --> 00:29:36.040 there has been an increase in male pattern baldness on the very top of the head, ironically. 00:29:36.040 --> 00:29:38.240 So I'm just wondering if that... 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:42.440 And this is the only thing you're taking is these three grains of natural glandular? 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:43.440 That's right. 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.560 I don't want to mess with the other because given all I've heard, I just feel like the 00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:48.120 body decides what it needs. 00:29:48.120 --> 00:29:51.600 And I think Dr. Peat said that on other radio programs, the body will decide it's a much 00:29:51.600 --> 00:29:52.680 safer way to do it. 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:57.120 It may not be directly immediately as effective, but I prefer doing that for the reason I mentioned. 00:29:57.120 --> 00:29:58.120 Okay. 00:29:58.120 --> 00:29:59.120 So what question, Claire? 00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:00.120 Yeah. 00:30:00.120 --> 00:30:01.520 Have you ever had a blood test for TSH? 00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:02.520 Yeah, I have. 00:30:02.520 --> 00:30:04.200 It was about 1.8. 00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:05.520 I haven't had it in a while. 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:08.920 At that same time, I had a cholesterol, total cholesterol of 330. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:13.720 The guy wanted to put me on statin drugs and I brought his attention to the piece you mentioned. 00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:17.880 I have a copy of that shows there's no correlation between cholesterol. 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.760 And to me, that was an indication of heart attacks. 00:30:20.760 --> 00:30:24.760 But this is an indication that clearly my thyroid was underactive, which has kind of 00:30:24.760 --> 00:30:25.760 got me. 00:30:25.760 --> 00:30:28.840 Were you taking this glandular when you got your TSH of 1.8? 00:30:28.840 --> 00:30:29.840 I started taking that, right. 00:30:29.840 --> 00:30:34.360 So you got a TSH of 1.8 and then you decided to start using a natural glandular? 00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:35.360 Yeah, 1.8 is high. 00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:36.360 Yeah, I can tell. 00:30:36.360 --> 00:30:41.800 And my T3 level on the low end of the scale, that's their scale, which may or may not be 00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:42.800 useful. 00:30:42.800 --> 00:30:44.600 And the T4 was sort of on the average end. 00:30:44.600 --> 00:30:48.320 And they didn't take burst T3, so I don't know that. 00:30:48.320 --> 00:30:51.840 Have they measured the cholesterol since you've been taking thyroid? 00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:53.680 No, I'm due for another blood test. 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:55.440 But my guess is it'll go down. 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:59.960 But my real question related to the temperature, I think I can answer those questions after 00:30:59.960 --> 00:31:00.960 the next blood test. 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.840 My guess is it'll go down dramatically because I am in very good physical shape. 00:31:03.840 --> 00:31:08.200 I know you guys say don't jog, but I do do under two miles three times a week, mostly 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:09.200 with sprints. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.960 So I feel that no activity is not useful. 00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:16.800 But obviously, as you pointed out, jogging is repeatedly running marathons, et cetera, 00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:17.960 is long-term detrimental. 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:20.880 But I don't think you go to the other end and literally do nothing but ride a bike. 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:22.800 You've got to do more than that, at least in my case. 00:31:22.800 --> 00:31:25.960 And I think you said that sprinting is okay in some of your write-ups. 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:30.640 In other words, doing like five, six sprints for 20 yards, et cetera, after sort of warming 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:31.640 up. 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:35.200 Have your muscles enlarged noticeably since taking the thyroid? 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.200 Not at all. 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:37.200 I have the same weight. 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.200 My weight goes from 172 to 178, sort of centered around 175. 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:42.880 It's been my weight for a long time. 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.640 I do find it drops, though, from sleep to the next morning, but usually in that range. 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:49.160 Mental clarity is so much better. 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:51.320 But that's really the key, and that's why I'm to this. 00:31:51.320 --> 00:31:54.120 And you're definitely right about the PUFA. 00:31:54.120 --> 00:31:55.120 No doubt about it. 00:31:55.120 --> 00:32:03.080 In the animal experiments, it takes about four years for a complete exchange when you 00:32:03.080 --> 00:32:05.760 stop eating PUFA. 00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:11.240 It's just a random exchange of what's in your present diet and what's in your body, and 00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:13.960 that takes four years to be complete. 00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:21.000 So it takes about two years to get a good 50% reduction in it where you'll start feeling 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:23.080 your thyroid more consistently. 00:32:23.080 --> 00:32:27.760 Because for taking three grains, your pulses and temperature do seem pretty low. 00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:28.760 The human is overweight. 00:32:28.760 --> 00:32:33.400 It takes four years, but on the lean side, more muscular and more active, perhaps that 00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:34.640 accelerates the process. 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.320 But by the way, there's no chance that you can eliminate PUFA. 00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:40.480 I mean, the notion of getting five milligrams per day is like fantasy. 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:41.760 You just can't do that. 00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:44.920 It's like impossible for anybody, even you, Dr. Peat. 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:46.880 There's no way you can limit it to five milligrams, right? 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:51.000 Because if you add up the milk you drink and the eggs, et cetera, it's... 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.520 No, five grams, I think, was... 00:32:52.520 --> 00:32:54.480 Sorry, five grams, not milligrams, five grams. 00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:55.880 You mentioned was the limit. 00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:02.320 Yeah, it's possible to get it down to a couple of grams a day, which is the inflection point 00:33:02.320 --> 00:33:09.080 where you see cancer correlating very closely to the amount of PUFA in your diet is around 00:33:09.080 --> 00:33:11.200 four grams per day. 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:16.520 And so you're pretty safe if you keep it under four grams per day, which you can do just 00:33:16.520 --> 00:33:24.360 by low-fat milk or skimmed milk, fruit, and low-fat cheese and eggs and such. 00:33:24.360 --> 00:33:25.360 I do all that. 00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:27.040 The only thing I do take is cooked vegetables. 00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:28.440 I've been doing that like twice a day. 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.480 Ironically, I was thinking to myself, sometimes I can't sleep at night, I'm thinking, "If 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.360 you cook food, you're killing the enzymes. 00:33:34.360 --> 00:33:37.800 And if your body, if your stomach's not generating those enzymes, you're going to have trouble 00:33:37.800 --> 00:33:40.880 breaking down that food, even if there's less PUFA in it." 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.000 I'm wondering whether digestive enzyme, you know, Lita Lee talks about that. 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:45.000 I know you know her. 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.440 Is that something that ultimately is useful, recognizing you have to worry about additives? 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:54.160 No, I think if you're going to eat vegetables, they should be thoroughly cooked. 00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:00.080 Otherwise, partly the problem is that you can't extract all the nutrients if they aren't 00:34:00.080 --> 00:34:01.640 thoroughly cooked. 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:08.200 And some of the carbohydrate complexes are going to feed bacteria if they aren't thoroughly 00:34:08.200 --> 00:34:09.200 cooked. 00:34:09.200 --> 00:34:15.720 I think measuring your cholesterol again and having your vitamin D level checked, sometimes 00:34:15.720 --> 00:34:22.120 a deficiency of vitamin D interferes with the way your body is handling the thyroid. 00:34:22.120 --> 00:34:25.840 It probably leads to more reverse T3 production. 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:32.200 But the vitamin D level in the blood should be around the middle of the range, 15 nanograms 00:34:32.200 --> 00:34:40.840 per milliliter, and the healthiest population for having no thyroid disease, essentially, 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:45.640 they were in the below 0.4 on the TSH scale. 00:34:45.640 --> 00:34:50.600 And cholesterol is a pretty good indication of how you're responding to thyroid. 00:34:50.600 --> 00:34:53.800 It should be around 200 or a little less. 00:34:53.800 --> 00:35:02.320 And in the 1930s, cholesterol was recognized as a good diagnostic indicator of thyroid 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.320 function. 00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:08.840 Someone published a study showing that when you removed someone's thyroid gland, immediately 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:13.080 as the metabolic rate went down, the cholesterol went up. 00:35:13.080 --> 00:35:21.000 And when you supplemented thyroid, the cholesterol came down as an exact mirror image of the 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.000 metabolic rate. 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.120 So I think that's exactly what's going to happen here because before I started your 00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:29.560 program for years, my total cholesterol was 200 and I had very good levels according to 00:35:29.560 --> 00:35:30.560 modern medicine. 00:35:30.560 --> 00:35:33.000 When I started your diet, I started eating a lot of ice cream. 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:34.920 I didn't used to eat that and a lot of milk. 00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:37.380 And I ended up, that's when it skyrocketed to 330. 00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:40.360 But I think when you make a change like this, it's a shock to your body. 00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:43.800 And to your point, I think I need to go through another blood test and see whether or not 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:48.720 the impact on the thyroid supplement and the vitamin D level, by the way, which was in 00:35:48.720 --> 00:35:51.720 the 40s, but I tried to get that up a little bit. 00:35:51.720 --> 00:35:53.800 It's below 50, but it's not dangerously low. 00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:56.600 It's on the low end, somewhere between 40 and 50. 00:35:56.600 --> 00:36:00.200 But the real question was the temperature and pulse. 00:36:00.200 --> 00:36:06.240 If your symptoms are not there, is it reasonable to have a pulse that sort of ranges between 00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:12.360 60 and 70 throughout the day if you're athletic and at a temperature that really never gets 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:13.720 above 98.2? 00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:15.480 I wouldn't worry about it. 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:22.400 Some people have a big heart that pumps efficiently and does fine at 65 beats per minute. 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:23.400 Yeah, you're right. 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.040 In fact, I was told I had someone, when I was a younger kid, they said I had a larger 00:36:27.040 --> 00:36:28.040 heart. 00:36:28.040 --> 00:36:29.040 I think that exactly might be true. 00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:30.600 You've been very kind with your time. 00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:31.600 There's one last question. 00:36:31.600 --> 00:36:32.600 This is a real quick one. 00:36:32.600 --> 00:36:33.600 There's another guy named Lawrence Wilson. 00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:35.280 I don't know if you've ever heard of him. 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.080 He's a very prolific writer. 00:36:37.080 --> 00:36:39.840 He deviates from you on a couple of points, no fruit. 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.440 He says take omega-3s, but it's very good. 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.320 But the one thing he does say, and I know you're big on coffee, he's big on coffee too, 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:48.320 but not orally. 00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:49.960 He's big on coffee enemas. 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:53.880 I know in the past you came up once and you mentioned that that can be stressful. 00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:57.080 A bigger problem for people over 50, one of the biggest problems, as you've mentioned, 00:36:57.080 --> 00:36:59.320 is iron toxicity is a real problem. 00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:03.680 If you do a coffee enemas on a regular basis, is that a way, other than bloodletting, to 00:37:03.680 --> 00:37:07.320 ultimately reduce the toxicity of iron in your body? 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:12.280 Well, just drinking coffee every time you eat an iron-containing food. 00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:20.120 I always have coffee with oysters or eggs or meat because it drastically limits your 00:37:20.120 --> 00:37:21.480 absorption of iron. 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:25.120 But my question is, maybe you don't have a position to answer that. 00:37:25.120 --> 00:37:29.120 You may not know, I just know a lot, but maybe you don't have experience in this area, or 00:37:29.120 --> 00:37:33.040 do you have a view on coffee enema in terms of whether it's stressful or not? 00:37:33.040 --> 00:37:34.040 Because it's like running. 00:37:34.040 --> 00:37:35.720 If you run the first time, you're going to be stressed. 00:37:35.720 --> 00:37:39.120 But if you do the same running 10 weeks in a row, it's not going to be as stressful because 00:37:39.120 --> 00:37:40.440 your body got used to it. 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:47.640 Yeah, I know there's a lot of benefit some people have from the coffee enema, but I think 00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:54.440 you can get the same benefit, probably more, by having it with food so that you don't give 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:58.680 yourself a sudden jolt of stimulation. 00:37:58.680 --> 00:38:00.640 That's where the stress is. 00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:04.320 It can make you burn fuel so fast that you get hypoglycemia. 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:07.640 Okay, well, I appreciate the calls, caller. 00:38:07.640 --> 00:38:11.080 I don't want to cut you too short, but we do have two more callers who are waiting to 00:38:11.080 --> 00:38:12.080 get some questions in. 00:38:12.080 --> 00:38:13.640 So let's take this next caller. 00:38:13.640 --> 00:38:15.120 Caller, where are you from and what's your question? 00:38:15.120 --> 00:38:16.120 We lost this one. 00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:22.080 It had to do with endometriosis and IUDs, their relation and the health of that. 00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:27.440 Dr. Peat, do you think IUDs could be responsible for endometriosis from an irritation point 00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:28.440 of view? 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:35.640 Yeah, it's been well established that endometriosis is from the prolonged excessive exposure to 00:38:35.640 --> 00:38:39.280 estrogen without interruption from progesterone. 00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:49.240 And the mechanism of the plain plastic or copper IUD is to send a signal to the ovary 00:38:49.240 --> 00:38:55.120 that the uterus isn't ready for pregnancy because there's a foreign object in it. 00:38:55.120 --> 00:39:02.000 The uterus perceives this injury and the signal travels up the fallopian tube and tells the 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:04.240 ovary not to make progesterone. 00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:10.640 So it's a very specific interruption of your hormone ratio the same way that the birth 00:39:10.640 --> 00:39:11.640 control pill is. 00:39:11.640 --> 00:39:16.960 Right, so just constant stimulation, estrogen excess with no relief from a progestogenic 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:17.960 part of the cycle. 00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:19.400 Okay, very good. 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:20.400 Next caller, you're on the air. 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:21.400 Where are you from and what's your question? 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:22.400 Hi, this is Alex. 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:23.400 I'm from Southern Humboldt. 00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:24.400 Okay, Alex, what's your question? 00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:30.000 Yeah, hey, my question is just I went through testicular cancer treatment last year. 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:35.120 I ended up having my left testicle removed and then went through chemotherapy and then 00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:40.820 after that had a surgery called an RPLND where they removed a section of lymph nodes. 00:39:40.820 --> 00:39:44.360 And I'm just interested in generic advice you'd have for somebody who's gone through 00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.480 that and gone through a few months of chemotherapy. 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:51.760 I haven't had anything crop back up but I'm just interested in general health advice for 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.960 somebody who's been through a treatment like that. 00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.480 How old were you at the time? 00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:56.680 I'm 34 years old. 00:39:56.680 --> 00:40:01.280 I was 32, just about to be 33 at the time of the diagnosis. 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:05.720 Yeah, was there an undescended testicle or anything like that or was it a lady tumor? 00:40:05.720 --> 00:40:10.000 No, yeah, none of the kind of the class things that would have really elevated my risk. 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.240 I didn't have an undescended testicle or anything like that. 00:40:12.240 --> 00:40:15.720 They were both like normal testicles as far as I had known up until that point. 00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:19.880 Okay, all right, Dr. Peat, did you hear the question to begin with? 00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:26.640 Yeah, when experimenters have removed, for example, one adrenal gland or one ovary, I 00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:32.280 don't remember any experiments with removing one testicle but the removal of some of the 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:39.720 steroid-forming tissue in those other situations causes the pituitary to drive the remaining 00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:46.840 gland twice as hard basically to keep up the systemic level of the steroid production. 00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:54.960 And so I think it's important to watch your LH and FSH levels and there are ways you can 00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:02.200 without necessarily supplementing an androgen but you can reduce the stress, keeping your 00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:10.400 thyroid hormone level up, vitamin D level up, regulating your protein and sugar intake 00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:19.320 carefully and possibly supplementing pregnenolone which will feed into the system suppressing 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:27.600 the exaggerated stress reactions that are more likely if your androgen is low. 00:41:27.600 --> 00:41:33.920 Testosterone works closely with progesterone and pregnenolone to make it less necessary 00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.880 to produce the stress hormones such as cortisol. 00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:42.160 Yeah, my testosterone levels are actually up because the one testicle that's left working 00:41:42.160 --> 00:41:44.120 double time so I'm at like the upper range. 00:41:44.120 --> 00:41:46.440 I've been going to UCSF and going to the Oshkosh. 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:47.800 Do you know what your value is? 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:48.800 Is it 6-700? 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:51.800 I think it's up 700, like 750. 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:52.960 Okay, good. 00:41:52.960 --> 00:42:00.160 I think it's good to concentrate on the whole anti-stress process because the androgen is 00:42:00.160 --> 00:42:08.520 probably compensating for the need for all of the stabilizing quieting hormones. 00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:13.920 DHEA and pregnenolone and progesterone have a stabilizing effect. 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:22.160 Pregnenolone is the most neutral of those and will hold down the need to produce cortisol 00:42:22.160 --> 00:42:27.240 and help to restrain LH and FSH production by the pituitary. 00:42:27.240 --> 00:42:29.120 Okay, is there anything dietary? 00:42:29.120 --> 00:42:30.760 They've got me on vitamin D definitely. 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:32.480 They want me to have elevated vitamin levels. 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:38.120 They have me taking like mushroom capsules from fungi perfecta and then it's like fish 00:42:38.120 --> 00:42:40.880 oil, vitamin D, fungi perfecta, mushroom capsules. 00:42:40.880 --> 00:42:42.960 You want to stop the fish oil? 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:43.960 I think that's about it. 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:44.960 Yeah, fish oil. 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:45.960 You want to cut the fish oil out? 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:46.960 Cut it out? 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:47.960 Oh, definitely. 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:48.960 Yeah. 00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:53.280 That's been the mainstay of Dr. Peat's research in the last 40 years is the toxic effects 00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.720 of polyunsaturates and fish oil is probably the worst of them all. 00:42:56.720 --> 00:42:57.720 Oh, yeah. 00:42:57.720 --> 00:42:58.720 I mean, I'm well-versed. 00:42:58.720 --> 00:43:02.080 I've been on his program a million times and I know the polyunsaturates are a problem. 00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:06.840 I guess I was oblivious to the fact that fish oil was included in that category. 00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:07.840 Yeah, very much so. 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:08.840 Okay. 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:09.840 So, avoid the fish oil is definitely not essential. 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:17.080 I mean, the science, I'll go back and listen to the actual chemicals or reactions that 00:43:17.080 --> 00:43:20.600 you're speaking about but is there anything dietarily or whatever that you'd recommend 00:43:20.600 --> 00:43:25.520 just generically to be kind of a soft approach to try to achieve the aims you're speaking 00:43:25.520 --> 00:43:27.080 or talking about? 00:43:27.080 --> 00:43:33.400 Having the anti-stress effect of vitamin D, a high ratio of calcium to phosphorus is very 00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:34.400 helpful. 00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:39.880 So, cut down your meat intake compared to your dairy intake or have a good ratio of 00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:42.320 dairy to meat and just eat small amounts. 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:43.320 Okay. 00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:44.320 Yeah. 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:45.320 Not a lot of muscle meat. 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:47.280 If you're going to eat meat, you're better off consuming the bone broths, the knuckle 00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:48.280 broths and the shanks. 00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:49.280 And a little liver. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:50.280 Yeah. 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:51.280 Maybe once or twice a month. 00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:52.280 Yeah, definitely. 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.280 I like all the nap bits. 00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:58.680 I've been good about eating all that and I've been on that kind of a thing like Sally Fallon 00:43:58.680 --> 00:44:00.080 type diet for a while. 00:44:00.080 --> 00:44:01.080 All right. 00:44:01.080 --> 00:44:02.080 Well, thank you. 00:44:02.080 --> 00:44:03.080 Thank you for your call. 00:44:03.080 --> 00:44:05.600 We're going to have to close it out here because it's three minutes to eight o'clock and I 00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:07.400 just want to let people know about Dr. Peat's details. 00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:09.280 So, thanks so much, Dr. Peat, for joining us. 00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:12.080 There's a whole bunch of questions we didn't get to but great. 00:44:12.080 --> 00:44:16.240 I'm glad people were listening and coming from all over the globe here. 00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:17.240 Thanks so much, Dr. Peat. 00:44:17.240 --> 00:44:18.240 Okay. 00:44:18.240 --> 00:44:19.240 Good luck. 00:44:19.240 --> 00:44:20.240 Okay. 00:44:20.240 --> 00:44:21.400 So, for those people that have listened to the show, they want to find out more about 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:25.800 Dr. Peat and his work and the publications that he's produced, his books or his newsletters 00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:32.480 or his research articles, it's www.raypeat.com. 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.560 Lots of articles fully referenced. 00:44:34.560 --> 00:44:38.240 Our website is westernbotanicalmedicine.com. 00:44:38.240 --> 00:44:44.400 Under the resources tab, we've just uploaded all of the shows including the 2016 and 2017 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.400 shows. 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:46.880 And yeah, big fans of Dr. Peat. 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.200 He's taught us a lot and it's how we live. 00:44:49.200 --> 00:44:51.680 So, for those people that called in, I'm glad you joined. 00:44:51.680 --> 00:44:52.680 I hope you got good answers. 00:44:52.680 --> 00:44:58.080 For those people who want to listen to the archive, they can also be listened to on kmud.org 00:44:58.080 --> 00:45:03.200 under audio archives under Friday Night Talk and it's 7 till 8 p.m. on the third Friday 00:45:03.200 --> 00:45:04.200 of every month. 00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:06.240 Gosh, I'll be driving home in the dark here, folks. 00:45:06.240 --> 00:45:07.240 It was just like yesterday. 00:45:07.240 --> 00:45:11.200 We were at the solstice and now we're already winding forward to the autumn of fall. 00:45:11.200 --> 00:45:12.200 Here it comes. 00:45:12.200 --> 00:45:13.200 So, thanks for listening. 00:45:13.200 --> 00:45:16.280 Our number here is 1-888-WBM-ERB. 00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:18.560 We can be reached Monday through Friday, business hours.