WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:17.660 or volunteers. Thank you so much for choosing to listen to us in a crowded media landscape. 00:00:17.660 --> 00:00:23.900 Support for The Herb Doctor comes from Tony Jones, who provides "Neozeohealing," a hands-on 00:00:23.900 --> 00:00:28.620 healing philosophy where together Tony and her client can explore old patterns and beliefs 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:34.040 that no longer serve. Once empowered, with new perspectives, different choices can be 00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:42.640 made moving towards a life that's truly desired. Contact Tony Jones at 707-223-2724 for further 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:53.080 information or to schedule an appointment. 00:00:53.080 --> 00:00:58.400 Support for KMUD comes from Redwood Coast Energy Authority, who provides services and support 00:00:58.400 --> 00:01:03.640 to the community to build energy resilience, reduce energy consumption, and expand the 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:09.880 use of climate-friendly electric vehicles. Visit redwoodenergy.org for complete details 00:01:09.880 --> 00:01:27.840 or call 707-269-1700 for more information. 00:01:39.880 --> 00:02:06.280 Thank you. 00:02:09.880 --> 00:02:33.520 [music] 00:02:39.880 --> 00:03:08.920 [music] 00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:29.200 Okay, well, welcome to this month's edition of Ask Your Herb Doctor. It's March the 18th, 00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:34.280 2022. Excuse a few technical hitches we had there, but we are live now. You're listening 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:41.100 to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. From 7.30 to the end of the show at 00:03:41.100 --> 00:03:45.140 8 o'clock, callers are invited to call in with questions related to this month's continuing 00:03:45.140 --> 00:03:51.280 topic of mTOR and a further discussion of holistic versus mechanistic approaches to 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:58.960 the treatment of disease. So, I think without further ado, let's introduce Dr. Raymond Peat, 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.760 who once again is joining us. Dr. Peat, are you with us? 00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:09.200 Well, thank you, as always, for giving your time. And as always, I'm constantly reminded 00:04:09.200 --> 00:04:16.080 of people who have never heard of alternatives. I'm not joking. I'm serious. And I guess I 00:04:16.080 --> 00:04:20.740 just cannot take it for granted, and I'm sure you don't take it for granted either that 00:04:20.740 --> 00:04:26.720 some people just don't know that there are alternatives to the standard model. Now, whether 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:31.620 it's treatment or chemicals or whatever it is, but alternatives exist. And so, for those 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:36.800 people who are listening, both now and who will pick this up on the audio archives at 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:41.660 some point in the future, would you just give an outline of your academic and professional 00:04:41.660 --> 00:04:46.080 backgrounds of people that are listening can hear about you? 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:55.000 Before I studied biology in graduate school, I was studying linguistics, literature, psychology 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:06.760 and teaching in those areas, and I decided I needed a more technical science background 00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:15.240 to understand how the brain works in the humanities and language and so on. So, I, in 1968, went 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:24.860 to graduate school at the University of Oregon in biology, and did my dissertation, finished 00:05:24.860 --> 00:05:38.480 in 1972, in the area of reproductive physiological aging, the changes of oxidative metabolism 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:48.120 during aging and its effect on reproduction. And I've been applying insights and related 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:54.960 things to all sorts of problems in the 50 years since then. 00:05:54.960 --> 00:06:00.480 All right, well thank you, thank you for that. So, for those of you who are listening now, 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:10.840 who take callers from 7.30 to the end of the show at 8 o'clock, the number is 707 923 3911. 00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:23.400 Once again, 707 923 3911. So, Dr. Peat, I think what I'd like to do, you're exquisitely aware 00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:28.480 of this, no doubt, but just for those who are listening tonight, and like I said, who will 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:35.600 listen to the archives, I wanted to carry on last month's topic of the findings around 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:45.240 research of which there's lots of papers written in 2022, 21 and 2020, based on the concept 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:56.480 of mTOR, the mechanistic target of rapamycin, and its use in cancer. And I think the bulk 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:05.080 of the evening show is going to remain based on the alternative approaches to cancer. What 00:07:05.080 --> 00:07:13.040 we do here is we like to give the scientific background for the relevance of certain substances, 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:22.640 whether natural or synthetic, even, used to be a better approach to treatment of disease. 00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:32.520 What I wanted to ask you, Dr. Peat, just to give an outline yourself even, on how the alternatives 00:07:32.520 --> 00:07:41.120 have been usurped in many ways by the modern approach to disease and how the machinery 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:49.120 which drives that research, if it is true research at all, is corrupted by the interests 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:57.280 of financial and vested interests, because we really haven't made hardly any significant 00:07:57.280 --> 00:08:03.600 increases in our knowledge of the treatment of cancer in particular. So with tonight's 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:10.960 discussion a continuation of last month's and previous other shows based on alternatives, 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:19.880 would you just give an outline of the prior history of those thinkers like St. Georgie 00:08:19.880 --> 00:08:26.080 and numerous others you've discussed just ad lib in describing other processes that 00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:32.400 we've just used for a radio show topic in the past, how the thinking of these classical 00:08:32.400 --> 00:08:38.840 people that are steeped in biology and not in mechanistic approaches, how that's changed 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:46.080 and what we are currently faced with in medicine, which doesn't seek to treat people holistically, 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:49.600 let alone scientifically in some cases? 00:08:49.600 --> 00:09:03.040 Yeah, the mechanistic materialist view, reducing everything to a cause and effect relation 00:09:03.040 --> 00:09:14.280 between two simple bits of matter, that makes everything seem absolutely clear to the people 00:09:14.280 --> 00:09:26.120 who have defined science that way. But when you focus on the interaction of two or just 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:33.600 a few particles you can understand those very clearly, but when you're focused that way 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:42.360 you miss the whole context. The people like Warburg and Szent-Györgyi looked at the whole 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:53.040 picture of biology. Warburg saw things that happened in yeast, saw them happening in cancer, 00:09:53.040 --> 00:10:02.320 the production of lactic acid even in the presence of oxygen and had the insight that 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:11.600 this is something very important about the nature of life. Szent-Györgyi was following 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:25.000 up on some other insights by other people such as W.F. Koch and worked out the classical 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:36.280 present view of how oxidation and mitochondrial metabolism work, but he kept in mind the whole 00:10:36.280 --> 00:10:47.760 organism and what's going on at every level of water and energy supply interactions, so 00:10:47.760 --> 00:10:57.360 on every conceivable thing that feeds into the life process and didn't focus on the 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:10.400 few reductionistic material interactions that ordinary science does and as a result Warburg's 00:11:10.400 --> 00:11:21.320 work was ridiculed and ignored for about 50 years, more than 50 years. It was only around 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:30.640 the beginning of this century that things he did in the 1920s started to be appreciated 00:11:30.640 --> 00:11:43.440 but generally misunderstood and Szent-Györgyi's work on cancer involved things that biologists 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:52.080 and doctors had never heard of or even thought of or even could think of, the idea of what 00:11:52.080 --> 00:12:03.280 electrons in water are doing and how motion is the essential feature of life and it's 00:12:03.280 --> 00:12:12.640 powered by the organized flow of electrons and he applied that to cancer, as well as 00:12:12.640 --> 00:12:25.680 muscle function and circulation. Every aspect of biology can be re-understood in terms of 00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:36.600 very simple things that act everywhere. There's no single place in metabolism where electrons 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:49.520 and water and muscles react to produce motion. It's a fundamental quality of life. So the 00:12:49.520 --> 00:13:02.040 really scientific work done attempting to understand the organism in terms of everything 00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:11.760 that can be known about it scientifically, the mainline science people are blind to that 00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:21.400 because it doesn't at all fit into reductionistic materialism or mechanistic materialism. 00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:30.320 I think the concept of looking for a cause and an effect driving that kind of mechanistic 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:40.720 approach has largely ignored the concept of a living organism interacting with its environment 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:50.680 and being effected directly by its environment. In looking at your newsletter that you publish 00:13:50.680 --> 00:14:04.600 quarterly now, isn't it? You mentioned the presence and the absolute knowledge of the 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:14.000 cancer field as a, not as a theory, but as a reality. I think for people that are listening, 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:21.440 just to understand that not only the concept of the bystander effect exists whereby if 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:29.080 a cell is irradiated outside of the body and is introduced into the body, that it can have 00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:35.240 a similarly damaging effect, not because it's typically releasing high energy electrons, 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:43.760 but because the stress signals that the cell will give out as a result of being irradiated 00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:49.000 have a direct effect on other cells. It comes into either into direct contact with or at 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:57.680 a distance. And that is a reality. It's almost like a quantum physical event that I think 00:14:57.680 --> 00:15:03.740 only probably with the last 10 or 15 years of science opening up quantum theory, are 00:15:03.740 --> 00:15:08.920 we able to put it into that place where we can begin to imagine such a thing has actually 00:15:08.920 --> 00:15:09.920 happening? 00:15:09.920 --> 00:15:19.640 If people were demonstrating the phenomenon 60 years ago, they knew that if you X-rayed 00:15:19.640 --> 00:15:29.360 an animal, you didn't have to X-ray the brain and pituitary to cause generalized hormonal 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:38.640 changes. For example, it would cause the animal to go into heat, or females. If you irradiated 00:15:38.640 --> 00:15:46.880 their foot, the same thing would happen. The whole organism would shift, shift its hormonal 00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:58.720 balance towards reproductive heat. And that is an example of the whole body as a cancer 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:11.360 field. The signal from the radiation is a holistic stress on the whole organism that 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:22.080 spreads something that promotes cancer. The mainstream biologists and medical people are 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:34.480 still insisting that radiation causes spot damage to the DNA, causes a mutation in one 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:47.000 gene of the DNA, and that that mechanistic one-to-one damage somehow works its way out, 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:58.320 ending up as a cancer. But that simply isn't a realistic picture. The radiation doesn't 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:09.120 have to hit the DNA. It does something excitatory and pro-inflammatory to the organism separate 00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:18.240 from anything that might do to the DNA. And that general stress reaction to radiation 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:29.120 turns on these signals that transmit estrogen-like signals all through the body. And people have 00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:39.360 found out that you can treat radiation poisoning and estrogen poisoning in the same way. And 00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:47.840 if you add radiation to estrogen, you've added a defective of the damage. 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:56.960 Dr. Peat, this is why you strongly recommend against any form of radiation, but specifically 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:04.840 dental x-rays because x-rays damage fastly dividing cells. And when you have a dental 00:18:04.840 --> 00:18:13.160 x-ray, it's affecting your brain, which is very rapidly dividing your eyes and your thyroid. 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:19.540 And tongue cancer, tonsil cancer, eye cancer, and brain cancer have all increased along 00:18:19.540 --> 00:18:30.520 with the incidence or intensity of dental x-rays. A study in Seattle several years ago, 00:18:30.520 --> 00:18:42.280 I put a lead field over the abdomen of pregnant women and found that a full set of dental 00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:52.080 x-rays with thyroid and pelvis and everything shielded by lead caused, if they were pregnant 00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:59.680 at the time, it caused the babies to be born underweight, underdeveloped the same way any 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.520 stress or excess estrogen would do. 00:19:02.520 --> 00:19:10.880 So the stress of that dental x-ray spread all the way down to the uterus and the developing 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:11.880 baby? 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:22.240 I wanted to just briefly get into the term "cancer field" before we both open up the 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:32.260 lines at 7.30 and get into the subject of mTOR and phosphoinositide 3-kinase as well 00:19:32.260 --> 00:19:40.840 as AKT as a triple pathway with which cancer is now being studied. And a lot of natural 00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:47.840 products with these blocking activities are being trialed and used already in phase two 00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:51.080 trials for cancer, very many different cancers. 00:19:51.080 --> 00:19:57.560 But for people that are listening, we talked about the bystander effect and how just the 00:19:57.560 --> 00:20:02.560 fact that you can damage a cell and reintroduce it into the body, it can still cause damage 00:20:02.560 --> 00:20:07.200 in the body it's been introduced into, not because the body's been damaged, but the 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:15.400 cell has an alarm signal that is basically propagated throughout the organism and has 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:17.920 a bystander effect on other healthy cells. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:24.520 Well the same thing with the cancer field, you wrote in your January newsletter that 00:20:24.520 --> 00:20:30.800 the cancer field is very similarly set up in such that the actual tumor itself in a 00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:39.760 radiating pattern out from the tumor has differing degrees of damage to the cells, so essentially 00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:45.320 there's a radiating pattern of damage from the central tumor out to distant tissues beyond 00:20:45.320 --> 00:20:52.040 the tumor that are precancerous and that is propagated by a direct pathway that is similar 00:20:52.040 --> 00:20:53.920 to the bystander effect. 00:20:53.920 --> 00:21:04.760 Yeah, any of the intense stresses like oxygen or glucose deficiency will reduce the efficient 00:21:04.760 --> 00:21:16.240 oxygen metabolism and cause stress signals and when one particular area is responding 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:25.320 more intensely to stress, what you get is a small local version, maybe a few inches in 00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:31.680 diameter of the organismic bystander effect. 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:37.280 The bystander effect refers to things that are well distributed through the body but 00:21:37.280 --> 00:21:47.200 the intense signals such as a cell that is approaching or already turned into cancer 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:55.200 will chronically produce an excess of lactic acid even when it gets oxygen. 00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:04.680 And so there will be a gradient of lactic acid surrounding that cell that irritates 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:15.520 and disturbs the nearby cells which then begin producing lactic acid and that spreads maybe 00:22:15.520 --> 00:22:23.480 through a few centimeters of solid tissue, just the local diffusion causes a visible 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:35.480 gradient ending up in a gradient of DNA damage and mutations or it's hard to list all of 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:43.240 the factors other than lactic acid that are diffusing out of an injured cell. 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:58.760 They include carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide, inflammatory cytokines, a variety of those. 00:22:58.760 --> 00:23:06.320 Everything that the body uses to respond protectively to damage. 00:23:06.320 --> 00:23:15.080 It can help local tissues multiply faster so that they can fill in a wound for example, 00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:23.800 accelerate some movement and replication of cells so that it's an essential part of healing 00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:33.880 a wound but when it's coming, being originated from a mutated or seriously damaged group 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:43.600 of cells, then it's tending to simply spread the damage rather than accelerate the healing. 00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:51.360 So all of these are normal healing factors like activating the local production of estrogen. 00:23:51.360 --> 00:24:04.680 That's a normal part of repairing tissue damage but when it is prolonged and something 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:13.320 causes the body to be unable to turn it off, then each of these things adds to the spreading 00:24:13.320 --> 00:24:21.680 effect as far as it diffuses locally, you'll see this gradient of deterioration including 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:33.480 mutations and meanwhile, it's adding a burden to the whole organism with more like the radiation 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:35.480 bystander effect. 00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:41.760 Okay, you're listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor KMUD, 91.1 FM from 7.30pm till the 00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:49.440 end of the show, 8 o'clock, you're invited to call in, the number is 707-923-3911, once 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:56.640 again 707-923-3911, Dr. Raymond Peat joining us. 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:04.600 So before I guess we get into the continued dialogue about mTOR and its importance as 00:25:04.600 --> 00:25:11.880 a target for the treatment of cancer, I just wanted to outline this differentiation that 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:19.160 I started with the show with in terms of mechanistic versus holistic approach to treatment. 00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:26.040 I read an article in preparing for this which was pretty exhaustive and had a lot of good 00:25:26.040 --> 00:25:32.840 reference material in its own right as well as lots of natural and alternative inhibitors 00:25:32.840 --> 00:25:39.520 as well as synthetic inhibitors of course because it was a chemical journal article. 00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:52.200 But basically, they discussed the phosphoenositide 3-phosphate AKT mTOR pathway as a three-branched 00:25:52.200 --> 00:26:00.080 signaling pathway and we're discussing that saying essentially approximately 70% of ovarian 00:26:00.080 --> 00:26:06.000 and breast cancers are activated by a derangement in this pathway and then also saying that 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:13.040 about 90% of lung adenocarcinomas show an aberrant activation of this pathway and then 00:26:13.040 --> 00:26:19.280 40% or so of squamous cell carcinomas are activated by this pathway and last month we 00:26:19.280 --> 00:26:27.240 talked about mTOR for the first time and you had mentioned mTOR1 and mTOR2 as being subsets 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:34.800 of mTOR and we kind of came up with the etiology of mTOR and its discovery and its reference 00:26:34.800 --> 00:26:46.400 to rapamycin and how that was discovered to be a good novel treatment to block this inflammatory 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.840 pathway of which cancer uses. 00:26:48.840 --> 00:26:59.720 So would you just outline briefly again the mTOR1 and mTOR2. 00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:12.800 The one form is an activating phosphorylating enzyme that when you're normally fed and growing 00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:29.040 up it's what mediates between eating more and growing more and if you overeat at any 00:27:29.040 --> 00:27:38.640 time you tend to overproduce this growth factor that necessarily leads to the degenerative 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:54.540 diseases excess calorie intake is very important and the activation of cells will turn on mTOR 00:27:54.540 --> 00:28:04.760 and synthesis and growth such that intracellular calcium which calcium should mostly be outside 00:28:04.760 --> 00:28:12.440 the cells but inside the cell it's an activating factor that increases mTOR. 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:25.280 The two form of the enzyme does similar things but it's fairly insensitive to the usual signals 00:28:25.280 --> 00:28:36.480 such as overeating but depends mostly on growth hormone and many kinds of stress will turn 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.740 on an excess of growth hormone. 00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:50.520 Women have spectacularly high levels of growth hormone compared to men as a result of estrogen 00:28:50.520 --> 00:29:01.480 reducing effect so that growth hormone has some particular ways of affecting our handling 00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:13.680 of fat that's basically the way the mTOR2 is turned on through high growth hormone. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:20.520 And these growth hormones in their own right are proliferative agents that would promote 00:29:20.520 --> 00:29:34.560 cancer growth okay so when I read about this mTOR, PI3K for want of a shorter term for it 00:29:34.560 --> 00:29:42.640 and AKT pathways it looked like it wasn't just about mTOR that we had discussed last 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:53.880 month but that these other two arms of the same signaling messenger system the phosphorinoxetide 00:29:53.880 --> 00:30:02.960 and the AKT pathway were also very good targets for shutting down essentially the it almost 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.760 seemed like it was shutting down the energy pathway which I found a little hard to reconcile 00:30:07.760 --> 00:30:17.440 with given that thyroid hormone and progesterone being anti-inflammatory and energy conservative 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:24.040 mechanisms were concerned that the kind of energy production side of things was something 00:30:24.040 --> 00:30:31.160 to be almost turned off in terms of having a beneficial effect on slowing cancers down 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:38.640 and perhaps this is the same mechanism by which the calorie control or calorie restriction 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:45.040 producing a greater longevity in people is you know is achieved. 00:30:45.040 --> 00:30:58.120 Yeah the overeating and mTOR and so on tend to favor the oxidation of fats over glucose 00:30:58.120 --> 00:31:05.920 and so when that happens you're basically slowing down the constructive part of energy 00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:18.180 metabolism and shifting over towards some of these risky simple growth pathways. 00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:23.320 So what do you think about shutting down not just mTOR but these other two pathways that 00:31:23.320 --> 00:31:32.760 are linked as a kind of three branched target I mean it's not in the mechanistic terms which 00:31:32.760 --> 00:31:38.680 is what the subject was about in terms of being holistic because it's not looking for 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:45.980 a side or killing effect it's looking and a lot of the things that were listed were 00:31:45.980 --> 00:31:52.840 flavonoids and these were biologically active molecules found in fruits and vegetables of 00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:57.720 which the kind of you know five servings of fruit and vegetables a day either is based 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:03.240 on in terms of good health and not just from a vitamin C perspective but the antioxidant 00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:12.480 flavonoids whether or not because I was looking for mTOR inhibitors and it seemed as I'd mentioned 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:21.480 I think last month that there's things like resveratrol from the polygonum one of those 00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:27.240 the really massive polygonums that kind of take over everything if you're not careful 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:33.760 if you plant them based in Japan I think also China is fairly endemic with it but they come 00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:40.720 from you know grape skins is one of the main sources of resveratrol and then the berries 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:45.800 things like blueberries and bilberries and cranberries and I know oranges and other citrus 00:32:45.800 --> 00:32:53.440 fruits contain these flavonoids and then I saw two other two other herbs and they caught 00:32:53.440 --> 00:33:01.340 my attention one was a Chinese herb platycodon grandiflorus which contained this compound 00:33:01.340 --> 00:33:07.560 called platycodin D and then another Chinese herb magnolia grandiflora containing a product 00:33:07.560 --> 00:33:17.000 called honokiol and they were using those as both AKT blocking and mTOR inactivating substances 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:24.560 as long along with all the synthetic substances that they listed and two or three of which 00:33:24.560 --> 00:33:33.560 were kind of often repeated but in terms of the energy quenching activity of flavonoids 00:33:33.560 --> 00:33:41.800 in terms of free radical liberation so when people use flavonoids if they've got an inflammatory 00:33:41.800 --> 00:33:47.400 disorder that's kind of systemic and widespread how these antioxidants for want of a better 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:53.400 work and quench the free radical generating effect of inflammation or that inflammation 00:33:53.400 --> 00:34:02.400 has how this can be part and parcel of an anti-cancer approach holistic anti-cancer approach rather 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:08.760 than mechanistically poisoning the cancer cell which I think a lot of chemo well definitely 00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:14.920 radiotherapy does but I think a lot of chemotherapy in the past especially has targeted cancer 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:24.480 cells in a killing way well what do you think about the the as I know you use co2 promotion 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:31.800 you know generating higher than regular physiological levels of co2 as being protective and then 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:38.480 obviously the other protective molecules like progesterone and aspirin and other compounds 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:44.280 that would increase your co2 what do you think about those things that I mentioned in the 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:54.000 flavonoids and or the other the other substances that have as energetic they do directly quench 00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:01.760 the free radicals and are protected that way but I think are more basic effect is that they 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:14.000 intensify the cells normal cytochrome oxidase based oxidation by speeding up the energy 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:24.160 producing oxidation through the electron transport chain but that process prevents and reduces 00:35:24.160 --> 00:35:33.440 or prevents the random oxidation that creates free radical damage and so it's a lot more 00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:43.400 general and fundamental to intensify respiratory energy than to try to use the antioxidant 00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:56.000 function if you think in terms of antioxidants it can go wrong because cancer is better than 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:12.440 anything at creating antioxidant effects part of their wildness is their ability to defend 00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:22.720 themselves against free radical damage chemotherapy and radiation are intended to kill cancer 00:36:22.720 --> 00:36:33.120 cells by way of free radical damage but they have an antioxidant system that uses high 00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:42.320 production of electrons basically the excess of lactic acid causes an excess of electrons 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:53.960 that will end the cycle or quench the free radicals but meanwhile they're failing to 00:36:53.960 --> 00:37:01.680 activate normal energy producing oxidation so you were talking earlier if you got dental 00:37:01.680 --> 00:37:07.160 x-rays or other x-rays that it affected stuff near it if you were going to be exposed to 00:37:07.160 --> 00:37:12.520 x-rays what sorts of foods or other things would you want to do to help protect yourself 00:37:12.520 --> 00:37:23.560 things such as a thyroid magnesium and progesterone which promote the production of carbon dioxide 00:37:23.560 --> 00:37:35.000 rather than lactic acid and then all of these other protective things of flavonoids and caffeine 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:40.320 aspirin and so on I think basically Dr. Peat is what you what it sounds like you and Andrew 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:47.940 are describing is cancer involves a lot of inflammation and a lot of these compounds 00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:57.880 are acting as anti-inflammatories and increasing normal cellular respiration yeah that's really 00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:09.960 a secret of thyroid function it's anti-inflammatory by directing oxygen towards consuming these 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:18.600 electrons that would otherwise cause inflammation because when the body's inflamed then it results 00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:26.880 in a lactic acid respiration which is very damaging and inflammatory and increases the 00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:34.800 loose electrons that are susceptible to random oxidation right okay you're listening to Ask 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.360 Your Herb Doctor KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM from now until the end of the show eight o'clock 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:50.560 you're invited to call in at number 707 923 3911. So in terms of the use of agents that 00:38:50.560 --> 00:39:08.240 would block mTOR or block either the phosphorinositol 3-phosphate or the AKT pathway do you think 00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:12.880 there's any because I also saw when I was looking at this that they come up with second 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:19.240 generation mTOR inhibitors I know they talked about the first I think you mentioned them 00:39:19.240 --> 00:39:30.080 last month Sirolimus temsirolimus and everolimus as being analogs here but they also talked 00:39:30.080 --> 00:39:38.880 about these second generation inhibitors they calling them ATP competitive mTOR kinase inhibitors 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:47.400 such as torin 1 and torin 2 do you do you think these molecules that compete with ATP 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:56.200 the energy currency of the cell do you think these have some mileage and value in terms 00:39:56.200 --> 00:40:04.320 of the thing of what I have trouble with is conceptualizing interfering with energy production 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:13.080 that doesn't sound like it will end well yeah the central thing you need is to stabilize 00:40:13.080 --> 00:40:18.120 the cells right because you always mentioning sugar being very important and not to not 00:40:18.120 --> 00:40:24.100 to you know starve someone from sugar and not just for diabetes but that's when you 00:40:24.100 --> 00:40:30.640 first mentioned it but for cancer and it's not at all scientifically rationalized that 00:40:30.640 --> 00:40:39.200 that is a good way to go about yeah because the starving cancer emits signals that tells 00:40:39.200 --> 00:40:49.360 the body to convert its own tissues muscles skin nerves to glucose to amino acids which 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:56.280 can be turned into glucose so when you start with cancer cell it tells the body to start 00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:03.800 breaking itself down to provide the food at once and then they also went on to discuss 00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:11.720 the cancers enduring cancer metabolism is strongly or at least the angiogenesis of cancer 00:41:11.720 --> 00:41:21.680 the creation of novel vessels to bring blood and nutrients etcetera to the cancer which 00:41:21.680 --> 00:41:28.960 is in kind of heightened state that the mentioned we've mentioned this before the hypoxia inducible 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:36.960 factor the activation of that was very responsible for driving and promoting cancer and how things 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:45.100 like vascular endothelial growth factor are other substances which drive cancer's production 00:41:45.100 --> 00:41:50.880 so blocking you know blocking hypoxia inducible factor is something that I know you've talked 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:58.760 about in the past when we've done shows similar to this and that tends to go with activating 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:10.300 carbonic and hydrate which is the cells way of disposing of acidic carbon dioxide but 00:42:10.300 --> 00:42:19.480 when that is too active it causes the cell to become alkaline leading to the production 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:27.080 of lactic acid that's very central to the cancer metabolism is to create alkalinity 00:42:27.080 --> 00:42:36.200 inside the cell by activating the enzyme that converts carbon dioxide from from its acidic 00:42:36.200 --> 00:42:46.920 form to the carbonate carbonic acid form okay so for those for those who are listening that 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:52.400 I wanted to run through some other natural mTOR inhibitors and I think I mentioned last 00:42:52.400 --> 00:43:01.400 month turmeric turmeric is getting a lot of press for its anti-rheumatic anti-inflammatory 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:08.320 effects for its anti-cancer effects and probably gets its anti-cancer kudos from being a natural 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:15.920 mTOR inhibitor and then resveratrol mentioned that from polygonum cuspidatum and then a 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:29.960 compound whose abbreviation is EGCG epigallocatechin gallate from green tea as well as diethylmethane 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:34.840 and caffeine I was pleased to see caffeine there saying that this may inhibit mTOR signaling 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:42.660 directly and indirectly and then I saw two other substances here that caught my attention 00:43:42.660 --> 00:43:50.000 and one was a substance called shogal from ginger root and there was an article reference 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:59.440 saying it inhibited the PI3K AKT mTOR pathway by directly targeting AKT1 and AKT2 but not 00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:06.840 the PI3K or the mTOR pathway so ginger was used there specifically for colon cancer and 00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:15.520 then I know you're not into the kind of pre-diabetes treating drugs but metformin do you have any 00:44:15.520 --> 00:44:19.220 good things to say about metformin because metformin was actually listed as one of those 00:44:19.220 --> 00:44:29.400 things to inhibit mTOR yeah the only drawback is that it acts to inhibit part of the electron 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:37.740 transport chain so it's incurring the mitochondria while also doing the beneficial thing of turning 00:44:37.740 --> 00:44:47.240 off mTOR so it's good to be cautious about metformin because there's not enough known 00:44:47.240 --> 00:44:56.520 about it but still its effects are generally protective through inhibiting mTOR okay and 00:44:56.520 --> 00:45:09.220 then do you think there's much value in using some of these substances as a potential treatment 00:45:09.220 --> 00:45:14.520 for Alzheimer's and I saw other references for neuro vegetative disorders and then I 00:45:14.520 --> 00:45:24.360 think there may have been a Parkinson indication because of the amyloid beta that was quote 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:34.600 unquote treated or decreased and the neurofibrillary triangles that could be mitigated by using 00:45:34.600 --> 00:45:40.120 some of these substances because of their effect on mTOR and mTOR's kind of downstream 00:45:40.120 --> 00:45:48.600 effects on amyloid production yeah inflammation is involved in all of the degenerative processes 00:45:48.600 --> 00:46:00.680 and so the anti-inflammatory anti-mTOR things are turning out to be protective against obesity 00:46:00.680 --> 00:46:10.720 Alzheimer's rheumatoid arthritis lupus anything you can think of turns out to involve inflammation 00:46:10.720 --> 00:46:15.080 at this route okay let me give out the number we do have a caller but if people would like 00:46:15.080 --> 00:46:21.880 to call in it's 707-923-3911 Dr. Raymond Peat with us so caller you're on the air where 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:29.400 you from what's your question hello um Andrew and Sarah this is Margaret and Dr. Peat I'm 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:37.040 grateful for your show um I'm from Garberville and I you're mentioning turmeric uh caught 00:46:37.040 --> 00:46:45.040 me because uh I use turmeric in uh daily pretty much but I noticed I know that there's a tendency 00:46:45.040 --> 00:46:51.840 in our society to find something like turmeric or other extractives from other herbs and 00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:56.640 things and it's like oh this is this is so great I'm gonna put it in capsule and take 00:46:56.640 --> 00:47:01.360 you know like five millimeters of it every day or five centimeters or not centimeters 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:09.120 but but you know milligrams and and and um I was wondering if you would address uh whether 00:47:09.120 --> 00:47:14.800 that's been really beneficial or if it's if it's beneficial enough to take it in your 00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:21.040 ordinary diet you know just just as it as it comes kind of do we have to really sock 00:47:21.040 --> 00:47:29.200 it to our bodies with all of these um uh extracts and pills and things you know I think is that 00:47:29.200 --> 00:47:35.160 clear the question I think you can overeat on the so-called protective things uh same 00:47:35.160 --> 00:47:46.080 with vitamin C uh instead of being uh antioxidant it becomes pro-oxidant when it begins producing 00:47:46.080 --> 00:47:54.720 excess electrons in cells uh-huh and and what about the other the other lesser um like like 00:47:54.720 --> 00:48:00.480 turmeric comes to mind because I do use that uh I know people that take it in little capsules 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:06.960 every day and it seems excessive to me but I'm not sure is it beneficial at that level 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:14.040 or or what I think I think some of this comes from uh studying uh populations in countries 00:48:14.040 --> 00:48:19.880 that use it in their cuisine so whether the Indian subcontinent where they use or the 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:25.680 Asian subcontinent you know where they use a a lot of um turmeric and or ginger uh and 00:48:25.680 --> 00:48:30.200 these and these other substances is concerned I think they have fairly low incidences of 00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:35.200 colorectal cancer and I think they've kind of put the two and two together when they've 00:48:35.200 --> 00:48:42.760 looked at uh turmeric um and it's anti-inflammatory activity as positing that as a potential mechanism 00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:50.320 by which they've you know have fairly low incidences well the thing is they use it as 00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:56.520 a matter of course in their daily lives we tend to say this is great I'm going to load 00:48:56.520 --> 00:49:01.080 myself up with it and I'm I'm just thinking that maybe that's not as beneficial as we 00:49:01.080 --> 00:49:08.160 think it might be maybe we should just follow that pattern and and use it in a more uh an 00:49:08.160 --> 00:49:14.760 integrative part kind of way you know uh in part and more in a culinary fashion yes thanks 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:21.460 Sarah yeah yeah so that we're it's we're eating our medicine instead of taking cat 00:49:21.460 --> 00:49:28.120 yeah yeah so remember too is a lot of um traditional cultures make peas out of these things they're 00:49:28.120 --> 00:49:33.080 not just like you know swallowing tablespoons of turmeric root they're putting some of their 00:49:33.080 --> 00:49:37.560 cooking and if they're going to make it into a medicine they make it into a tea which helps 00:49:37.560 --> 00:49:42.320 to attract the medicinal constituents like a tincture does without having to have all 00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:47.860 the extra fiber and potential extra heavy metals that are in herbs that don't get extracted 00:49:47.860 --> 00:49:52.040 in the tea in the tincture yeah that's like they would in the root of turmeric that's a 00:49:52.040 --> 00:49:58.440 very good point because having looked at these botanicals and put them through icpms to see 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:05.080 what levels of kind of the california for um you know heavy metals arsenic, cadmium, 00:50:05.080 --> 00:50:10.080 lead and mercury are within these herbs as part of a gmp process to produce um these 00:50:10.080 --> 00:50:18.760 extracts and sell them i know from from data raw data that the um the plant itself the 00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:25.400 root uh contains very high levels and some cases of those compounds and the extracts 00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:33.160 contain virtually none and so the the extract process um i would say this much is very clean 00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:37.400 compared to the root of the actual herb if you were going to consume this and so we've 00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:42.960 done shows on this with fish in the ocean and showing how much arsenic, cadmium, lead 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:48.840 and mercury is in them the same goes for any plant material that you would use that was 00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:56.240 basically to ingest it in the powder or capsule form which is why we're not at all um in agreement 00:50:56.240 --> 00:51:01.200 with capsules and powders over extracts because extracts do not bring out the heavy metal 00:51:01.200 --> 00:51:06.200 content of the raw material it's as simple as that and i can show you and also extract 00:51:06.200 --> 00:51:11.840 tinctures they concentrate the material you know you concentrate the medicinal constituents 00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:17.680 well thank you very much i appreciate your uh your help thank you you're welcome good 00:51:17.680 --> 00:51:21.600 night Margaret for your call okay i think we have another call on the line so let's 00:51:21.600 --> 00:51:29.480 take this next caller call away from what's your question hi my name is Margie and i would 00:51:29.480 --> 00:51:40.720 like a clarification on when Dr. Peat says um sugar does that mean just um fructose or 00:51:40.720 --> 00:51:48.060 uh honey natural sugars yeah um and i can take my answer off the earth incidentally 00:51:48.060 --> 00:51:52.800 where are you from i'm from pepperwood pepperwood okay so yeah you know you kind of read my 00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:56.520 mind i was gonna say that and i wasn't going to be devil devil's advocate but it sounded 00:51:56.520 --> 00:52:00.640 like it was going to be a moment ago in going to answer the previous callers questions i 00:52:00.640 --> 00:52:04.920 was gonna say what about sugar we just want to get that from carbohydrates or do we want 00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:10.040 to get it from sugar or honey because i think Dr. Peat would say to get it from honey and 00:52:10.040 --> 00:52:18.560 to get it from sugar um but yeah Dr. Peat it's also good uh coming from starch or other more 00:52:18.560 --> 00:52:25.280 complex healthy starches carbohydrates but uh the problem is some of those like sweet 00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:36.760 potatoes are such mixtures they have uh woody material and fats indigestible things mixed 00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:47.400 in with the otherwise uh useful carbohydrates uh so you can't just say that uh annual starch 00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:57.800 is going to be equivalent to glucose or sucrose or honey it depends on whether it's digestible 00:52:57.800 --> 00:53:01.920 well i think i want to can i go back to the sugar issue and the cancer issue that you 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:09.320 touched on earlier every cell in the body needs glucose to operate so if you don't eat 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:17.360 any kind of sugar your body's going to turn on a harmful metabolism to make sugar and 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:23.920 and that is involving lactic acid correct Dr. Peat and high cortisol isn't necessary 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:31.320 to mobilize and break down the protein to make amino acids and and the glucose which 00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:36.720 also promotes cancer cortisol also promotes cancer it's a stress promoter so it weakens 00:53:36.720 --> 00:53:41.880 your immunity against it yeah lowers your immune system like everybody knows steroids 00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:46.040 suppress the immune system and cortisol is a natural steroid your body will make when 00:53:46.040 --> 00:53:52.240 you starve your body of sugar glucose so i know doctor you've said that honey and white 00:53:52.240 --> 00:53:59.800 sugar cane sugar are identical in their structure they both are sucrose which is half fructose 00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:10.240 and half glucose yeah and the pure fructose on the market for many people it has allergenic 00:54:10.240 --> 00:54:22.440 effects because of its manufactured in a more complex way than with sucrose you simply concentrate 00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:33.800 the juice remove the impurities from the cane juice to make white sucrose but to make fructose 00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:42.680 chemical and enzyme processes are used introduce some trace allergens so you're cautious about 00:54:42.680 --> 00:54:49.860 using what they call a powdered fructose right so you would recommend honey or cane sugar 00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:54.440 over a fructose because of the process that the fructose goes there even though fructose 00:54:54.440 --> 00:55:02.480 is more nutritious sugar yeah and and the other thing too is i know doctor you don't recommend 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:09.840 people just eat white sugar by the table to without balancing it with a healthy fat healthy 00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:17.000 saturated fat like coconut oil and or butter and a protein or at least with just a protein 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:25.000 so that it's not just an instant sugar spike yeah it can be used in the pure form for example 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:36.640 is a mild analgesic for babies they give them a bit of pure sucrose and is for pain killer 00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:46.600 and in areas that lack penicillin a big wound that otherwise would be fatal has been packed 00:55:46.600 --> 00:55:56.160 with pure store-bought white sugar and it has a thermosidal effect as well as a protective 00:55:56.160 --> 00:56:04.160 effect so also honey does too they pack wounds with honey as well yeah so it has its specific 00:56:04.160 --> 00:56:12.160 therapeutic effects besides its protective nutritional effects right i hope that answered 00:56:12.160 --> 00:56:17.360 that caller's question there okay good i think there was a caller that came in but it is 00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:21.520 four minutes too i don't think we can do it it's almost three minutes to the hour one 00:56:21.520 --> 00:56:30.280 thing i wanted to mention before we're finished is that vitamin D is a very important inhibitor 00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:41.240 of mTOR because it works on many other levels inhibits things that would promote mTOR reduces 00:56:41.240 --> 00:56:49.080 the processes that would amplify a little inflammation into a big inflammation such as a blocking 00:56:49.080 --> 00:56:57.880 prostaglandin formation okay excellent so dr p do appreciate you joining us again on the 00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:03.600 show and i'll give out your information and thank you so much okay thank you thank you 00:57:03.600 --> 00:57:20.320 dr p okay so for those who've listened to this march 18 2022 edition of ask your herb doctor 00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:26.560 something just happened try saying what you just said again Andrew I hung up and everything 00:57:26.560 --> 00:57:35.480 cut out on the board can you hear me uh okay here uh huh try the other mic 00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:50.080 oh no well i hate to have a rough ending to that but uh something weird just happened 00:57:50.080 --> 00:57:58.320 on the k-mud ancient board here and uh i'm gonna have to fill out a technical malfunction 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:04.160 thing and i'll please support redwood community radio because we really really really do need 00:58:04.160 --> 00:58:21.120 a new board thank you so much for joining us it's time to step out on a wing and a prayer 00:58:34.160 --> 00:58:53.120 for you. 00:59:04.160 --> 00:59:18.640 hello and welcome to the top of the day oh here we are we both are you made it all right 00:59:18.640 --> 00:59:24.040 have you found the microphone yeah i see it all right all right we're in the vicinity 00:59:24.040 --> 00:59:31.920 hey there ma yeah what a coincidence here's a little card i found mind read that this 00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:35.840 program is supported by the redwood palace a full-service restaurant that offers a relaxed 00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:41.440 dining experience on the avenue of the giant offering a full selection of local beer and 00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:47.600 wine humbled bay oysters cheese charcuterie boards and special dinners the redwood palace 00:59:47.600 --> 00:59:58.240 is located in maranda and can be reached at 707-223-5749 menu and more online at redwoodpalacemaranda.com 00:59:58.240 --> 01:00:03.360 to go and dining in from wednesday through saturday 5 to 9 pm oh by the way