WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000 Hey and welcome to Politics and Science. I'm your host John Barkhausen. This week we continue with another 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:14.280 archive interview that I did with Dr. Raymond Peat. He's a physiologist who lives in Eugene, Oregon and 00:00:14.280 --> 00:00:19.400 he's been studying health and the history of science for his entire life. 00:00:19.400 --> 00:00:24.080 He's pretty much the smartest person I've ever talked to. 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:40.600 Today this interview was recorded in 2010 on April 26th and it concerns digestion, mostly human digestion, but I think it relates to all mammals as well. 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:51.600 It's about how it works and how it affects us and the psychological and physical repercussions of good and healthy digestion. 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:58.600 So I hope you can digest some of the show and with that I'll let it get started. Here we go. 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:07.600 I am pleased to tell you as the host of Politics and Science that I have on the show again today Dr. Raymond Peat. 00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:15.600 Dr. Raymond Peat has a PhD in biology from the University of Oregon with specialization in physiology. 00:01:15.600 --> 00:01:24.600 He's taught at colleges including the University of Oregon, Urbana College, Montana State University, National College of Naturopathic Medicine, 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:32.600 Universidad Cruzana, the Universidad Autonoma del Estado de Mexico and Blake College. 00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:40.600 In addition to his science research, bi-monthly newsletter and other writings, some of which are available at RayPeat.com, 00:01:40.600 --> 00:01:45.600 he conducts private nutritional counseling. Hopefully, Ray, are you there? 00:01:45.600 --> 00:01:46.600 Yes, hello. 00:01:46.600 --> 00:01:53.600 Good, welcome back. I'm basing our discussion today on one of your recent newsletters. 00:01:53.600 --> 00:02:00.600 Ray Peat's newsletter is available, I think you can find out about it, at the website RayPeat.com. 00:02:00.600 --> 00:02:10.600 They're always interesting and this one is from January 2010 entitled "Cascara Energy, Cancer and the FDA's Laxative Abuse." 00:02:10.600 --> 00:02:15.600 And I thought I'd use it as a takeoff point to talk about digestion in general, 00:02:15.600 --> 00:02:22.600 which I don't think there's much coverage of that in the media at all and yet it's something we all have to do. 00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:30.600 And I thought, Ray, that perhaps you could start off by defining what you consider to be digestion in a healthy organism or a healthy human. 00:02:30.600 --> 00:02:42.600 Well, everything should work smoothly. The food should be appetizing so that it stimulates the whole system. 00:02:42.600 --> 00:02:49.600 Pavlov was one of the pioneers in really studying digestion scientifically. 00:02:49.600 --> 00:03:05.600 He showed that the knowledge of the food and the sensory quality of the food completely dominates the digestive process. 00:03:05.600 --> 00:03:17.600 And recent experiments show that the taste of the food will even affect your blood sugar. 00:03:17.600 --> 00:03:22.600 If you eat something sweet, it will actually raise your blood sugar. 00:03:22.600 --> 00:03:34.600 Even if your throat is cut, it's a nervous connection that tells you that you're ready to start using food. 00:03:34.600 --> 00:03:40.600 So even if the food doesn't get in your blood, the taste of it will start raising your blood sugar. 00:03:40.600 --> 00:03:47.600 Pavlov isn't widely studied. 00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:55.600 There continue to be some digestive experiments, 00:03:55.600 --> 00:04:05.600 but now they're mostly done by the pharmaceutical industry and such things as what ferments do to digestion and so on. 00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:20.600 But there's a long scientific history of digestive processes, mostly on animals, a few on people. 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:26.600 Walter C. Alvarez was a famous gastroenterologist who had a newspaper column, 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:38.600 and he helped get some scientific information into the general culture regarding digestion. 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:43.600 When did that happen, Ray? When was Alvarez writing? 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:50.600 In the '40s and '50s. Well, he did much of his scientific work in the '20s and '30s, 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:53.600 but he became a popular columnist in the '40s and '50s. 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.600 I see. 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:09.600 And after his time, most of the good research was done on animals and related to agriculture, mostly. 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:17.600 Some of it was just basic knowledge of how the intestine and digestive organs work. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:25.600 For example, they would isolate a loop of intestine so that they could measure the blood going in and out 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:32.600 and then put certain foods in that little piece of intestine and watch what happens. 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:41.600 That was sort of getting detailed information on the general work that Pavlov had done, 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:49.600 showing how the organs would respond to the nervous stimulation. 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:56.600 They found, for example, working with the intestinal loops, that the more complex the food in the intestine, 00:05:56.600 --> 00:06:01.600 the more vigorously the digestive process worked. 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:13.600 So that one kind of experiment shoots down a whole bunch of dogma regarding food mixing 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.600 or eating things in certain combinations. 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:25.600 The most complex mixture seems to be the one that digests the most efficiently. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:31.600 And predigestion has been advocated for foods like proteins, 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:45.600 but in one experiment the digestive enzymes were stirred with acid and some protein to be digested. 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:54.600 And just stirring it at body temperature didn't do much digestion. 00:06:54.600 --> 00:07:03.600 But when they added a piece of the intestine that had been washed and sterilized and fixed, 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:07.600 so it was basically just a structural framework, 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:16.600 adding that structural bit of intestinal tissue, suddenly the protein digestion went full speed. 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:26.600 So it isn't just the enzymes in the liquid that digest the proteins into amino acids, 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:28.600 which can then be absorbed. 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:38.600 The protein has to be in a certain configuration held in place by the surface fuzz of the intestine 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.600 before the enzymes can efficiently work on it. 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:47.600 And since it's digested in contact with the cells, 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:55.600 then the amino acids are absorbed immediately as they're liberated from the protein. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.600 And after the age of one, 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:13.600 a person's digestive system doesn't do very well with free amino acids compared to the whole protein. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:22.600 So basically the food in the close to living state complex, 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:34.600 and structurally more or less just mixed by chewing is all it needs in preparation. 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:45.600 And something that a lot of people don't think about is that humans don't have the enzymes for digesting 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:55.600 a lot of the plant materials such as cellulose, lignin, and other structural materials. 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:02.600 So that if we just simply chew vegetables, 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:08.600 most of the material, unless we chew it for half an hour each bite, 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:15.600 a lot of it is going to be still trapped in the undigestible framework, 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.600 and bacteria in the intestine can then get at it. 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:29.600 And so you're supporting bacterial growth when you eat most vegetable material, 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:32.600 depending on how fibrous it is. 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:35.600 So they're always recommending we eat fiber, 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.600 so I can see that that could be a problem. 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:44.600 But before we get into solutions for digestive problems, 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:50.600 maybe you can cover what some of the basic problems, 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:54.600 causes, and stages of the different types of digestive dysfunction there are. 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.600 I mean a lot of people are allergic to things, and there's toxins. 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:02.600 There's also just, as you were talking about Pavlov, 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:07.600 and how the mind works in interaction with digestion. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:15.600 I know a lot of people who are stressed out and have trouble digesting when stress is high. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:21.600 Yeah, just the nervous tension will make things slow down. 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:26.600 Adrenaline will make your intestine stop moving. 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:37.600 It's an adaptive thing, so the fight or flight reaction isn't interrupted by intestinal activity. 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:43.600 So high adrenaline will not only shut down the movement of the intestine, 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.600 and the secretion of digestive fluids, 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:50.600 but it even reduces the circulation to the intestine. 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:58.600 And if it's too intense, it prolonged shutting off the blood supply. 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:05.600 It happens more in old people, but the chronic exposure to adrenaline 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:13.600 can actually cause some of the intestine to die from lack of blood circulation. 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:20.600 Short of that, prolonged stress, by reducing the circulation, 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:25.600 it makes the intestinal wall become a poor barrier, 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:31.600 so that more toxin leaks through when you're in an anxious state, 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.600 if the anxiety is prolonged, 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:42.600 so that the intestine isn't getting enough blood to maintain its barrier function. 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:53.600 Some types of hormonal disturbances will increase your activity of the parasympathetic nervous system, 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.600 the opposite of the adrenaline site, 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:01.600 and that often goes with high histamine release. 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:07.600 And when histamine is released, serotonin is often excessive too. 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:15.600 For example, in low thyroid people, there is often an excess of all of the transmitter substances. 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:19.600 Sometimes it goes in the direction of serotonin, sometimes adrenaline. 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:26.600 And serotonin and the parasympathetic system and histamine 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:34.600 all excite the muscles of the intestine, cause it to contract and even go into spasm. 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:40.600 And sometimes the spasms will shut off function, 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:48.600 but more often overactivity of that site will produce diarrhea. 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:56.600 So the type of your nervous distress can make a big difference. 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:01.600 I see. And as our digestion gets out of balance, 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.600 either it tends towards constipation or diarrhea. 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.600 And is one worse than the other? 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:10.600 Are the remedies different? 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:18.600 Well, in constipation, if it's associated with high adrenaline, 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:26.600 the constipation tends to cause prolonged absorption of bacterial endotoxin. 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:32.600 And in an acute case of diarrhea, things are washed through so fast 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:38.600 that it often reduces the absorption of toxins. 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:47.600 So just as a rough generality, occasional diarrhea is probably somewhat therapeutic. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:52.600 But chronic constipation, for thousands of years, 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:58.600 they've known that it's associated with cancer and other diseases. 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:04.600 Just recently I've been seeing cases of people with chronic constipation 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:10.600 and bowel problems who are having strokes, aneurysms, 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:18.600 and abnormal clotting and stroke hemorrhages 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:28.600 are now known to be promoted by endotoxin and the inflammatory responses to the endotoxin. 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.600 I know you've written about endotoxin quite a bit, 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.600 and I've talked to some other medical people about that, 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:38.600 and they've never heard of it, and I find that quite remarkable. 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:40.600 Why don't you describe how that occurs? 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:50.600 Okay. If you feed the bacteria, that's one factor that you can grow a culture of. 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:55.600 Bacteria are especially harmful if you are under stress, 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.600 so your intestine lets too much of that into your bloodstream. 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.600 That's another stage of the problem. 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:08.600 If you don't feed your liver and keep it well energized 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:14.600 with the right amount of thyroid hormone and a good vitamin/mineral/protein supply, 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:23.600 your liver won't be able to detoxify any of the endotoxin that reaches the liver, 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:33.600 and then the defensive response is a little bit of endotoxin leaking in all the time. 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:38.600 You want to keep this in an immunologically toned-up state 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:43.600 so that it can be like exercise. 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:47.600 It gets you ready for more intense stress. 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.600 But if your liver is letting too much of it through, 00:15:51.600 --> 00:16:01.600 then it gets you into the chronic state of inflammation. 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.600 People injured in a serious accident, 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.600 often when they're taken to the hospital, 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:15.600 all of their organs will suffer, kidneys, lungs, liver. 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:21.600 All of the major organs will tend to lose function. 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:29.600 Endotoxin is the main thing that is involved in that multiple organ failure. 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.600 Where it's just a chronic process, 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:41.600 the same reactions to endotoxin, the inflammatory reactions, 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:50.600 produce the degenerative changes in the blood vessels and the brain, 00:16:50.600 --> 00:17:00.600 promote tumor formation from chronic inflammation that can't be healed and corrected. 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:05.600 All of the degenerative diseases are the last five or ten years. 00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:12.600 That's one of the very biggest areas of medical research. 00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:18.600 So there's a tremendous new increase in endotoxin 00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:23.600 and its role in degenerative diseases. 00:17:23.600 --> 00:17:32.600 Coinciding with this, the FDA has outlawed all of the traditional laxatives. 00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:33.600 I see. 00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:38.600 Well, before we move on to some of what the FDA is up to, 00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:42.600 so endotoxin is a bacteria that's always with us, 00:17:42.600 --> 00:17:44.600 but we can usually keep it under control, 00:17:44.600 --> 00:17:48.600 and it just gets out of control under stress situations? 00:17:48.600 --> 00:17:56.600 Yeah, with aging and/or stress, our liver is less able to detoxify it. 00:17:56.600 --> 00:18:00.600 And other organs have some of the detoxifying enzymes. 00:18:00.600 --> 00:18:06.600 Our brain is pretty rich in detoxification systems, 00:18:06.600 --> 00:18:10.600 but the liver is the main one to be concerned about 00:18:10.600 --> 00:18:18.600 if the intestine is stressed enough that a lot of it is getting through. 00:18:18.600 --> 00:18:30.600 And low thyroid function is one of the things that makes the liver very weak at detoxifying things. 00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:35.600 And one of the things the liver always has to detoxify, 00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:42.600 endotoxin is always there unless we're raised in a germ tree bubble, 00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:51.600 but estrogen is always there too, especially in women after puberty. 00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:59.600 The liver tends to slow down under the influence of estrogen, 00:18:59.600 --> 00:19:09.600 and that tends to let estrogen increasingly interact harmfully with other systems 00:19:09.600 --> 00:19:19.600 so that you get some very similar effects from overexposure to endotoxin or to estrogen. 00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:27.600 They both activate some of the blood vessel leakiness and inflammation, 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:31.600 leading to degenerative diseases. 00:19:31.600 --> 00:19:34.600 Now, inflammation in the digestive system, 00:19:34.600 --> 00:19:40.600 first of all, what is inflammation and how does it affect our digestion? 00:19:40.600 --> 00:19:50.600 The first thing that happens with endotoxin and/or estrogen 00:19:50.600 --> 00:19:55.600 is the production of too much nitric oxide, 00:19:55.600 --> 00:20:06.600 and one of the ways that that makes capillaries leak is that it makes them take up too much water. 00:20:06.600 --> 00:20:12.600 And one of the ways these toxins cause cells to take up too much water 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:19.600 is by knocking down their oxidative metabolism. 00:20:19.600 --> 00:20:29.600 The nitric oxide poisons the mitochondria so that they can't produce energy very fast, 00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:33.600 and as the energy production goes down, 00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:42.600 the cell simply swells up and gets looser in structure as it fills up with water. 00:20:42.600 --> 00:20:49.600 That increases the leakiness and lets more of the toxin get through. 00:20:49.600 --> 00:21:01.600 And as this proceeds, it goes from the capillary admitting more of the toxin 00:21:01.600 --> 00:21:07.600 to the surrounding connective tissue, taking up more and more water, 00:21:07.600 --> 00:21:12.600 and the wall of the intestine as well as the wall of the blood vessel, 00:21:12.600 --> 00:21:17.600 on the small level, the wall of the blood vessel gets thicker 00:21:17.600 --> 00:21:26.600 so that it cuts off the delivery of oxygen and contributes to the problem. 00:21:26.600 --> 00:21:31.600 And as the oxygen supply goes down, the cells produce lactic acid, 00:21:31.600 --> 00:21:37.600 and the lactic acid triggers more of the inflammatory substances, 00:21:37.600 --> 00:21:42.600 and the wall of the intestine takes up more and more water 00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:49.600 through all of the layers of muscle, connective tissue, blood vessels, and so on, 00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:54.600 until at an extreme state. 00:21:54.600 --> 00:22:02.600 Many people have seen x-rays of their intestine after they've taken a barium meal, 00:22:02.600 --> 00:22:09.600 and you can see places where there are big wads of the opaque white material, 00:22:09.600 --> 00:22:15.600 and other areas where there's none at all, or just a little thread of it 00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:18.600 going down a channel in the intestine. 00:22:18.600 --> 00:22:26.600 That's often caused by the intestine becoming so thick that there's no space left 00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:30.600 for the movement of food or liquid down the channel. 00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:37.600 Even the barium liquid can't find a channel to get through. 00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:41.600 So that's the worst kind of constipation, 00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:46.600 is where the intestine swells up with massive amounts of water 00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:52.600 instead of being a membrane-like, tough, muscular organ. 00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:57.600 It becomes a big, fat, heavy, sausage-like organ. 00:22:57.600 --> 00:23:04.600 And you're saying that swollen, watery state is basically a state of inflammation. 00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:06.600 Yeah. 00:23:06.600 --> 00:23:12.600 And the first, simplest remedy for that for many people 00:23:12.600 --> 00:23:22.600 is just to take some aspirin and Benadryl to lower the inflammatory mediators. 00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:30.600 And the reason aspirin works is that people have consumed too much of the polyunsaturated fats, 00:23:30.600 --> 00:23:32.600 which then turn into prostaglandins, 00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:43.600 which are one of the endpoints of causing inflammation and water-logging. 00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:50.600 And histamine release is defended against by the antihistamines. 00:23:50.600 --> 00:23:55.600 And so to reduce the risk in the long run, 00:23:55.600 --> 00:24:04.600 it's important to minimize your intake of those precursors of the inflammatory prostaglandins. 00:24:04.600 --> 00:24:08.600 I see. So you recommend not eating unsaturated fats because of that. 00:24:08.600 --> 00:24:10.600 Yeah. 00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:19.600 So moving along, 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:26.600 and part of the digestive process is peristalsis, where your, I guess, 00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:32.600 your actual intestine has a contraction that moves down the length of it and moves food along. 00:24:32.600 --> 00:24:39.600 Yeah. And if they're water-logged, the muscles simply can't contract. 00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:46.600 It's like if your arm swelled up to be two feet in diameter, 00:24:46.600 --> 00:24:49.600 you wouldn't be able to bend it. 00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:54.600 That's right. That's a good point. 00:24:54.600 --> 00:25:01.600 So now you mentioned aspirin helps a lot as an anti-inflammatory. 00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:02.600 Are there other techniques? 00:25:02.600 --> 00:25:05.600 And I'm curious, if you go to a doctor, 00:25:05.600 --> 00:25:10.600 what's the normal recommendation for, say, somebody coming in who's constipated? 00:25:10.600 --> 00:25:20.600 Oh, they tell them to drink more water or they give them starch-like material that binds water 00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:26.600 and makes the stool moister. 00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:32.600 That's pretty much the standard approach to think of it as just a mechanical problem. 00:25:32.600 --> 00:25:41.600 But having a moist stool is nice if you have an intestine that can pass it along, 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:46.600 but if it's swollen shut, that isn't going to do any good at all. 00:25:46.600 --> 00:25:51.600 And in fact, some of those things can support bacterial growth. 00:25:51.600 --> 00:26:00.600 And so very sick people sometimes just basically tend to swell up with gas 00:26:00.600 --> 00:26:05.600 when they take those instead of having a laxative action. 00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:08.600 Are there situations where peristalsis stops 00:26:08.600 --> 00:26:16.600 and you can use something that would get it contracting again? 00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:23.600 Sugar is one of the very effective things, sugar and salt, because they lower adrenaline. 00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:33.600 And if stress has stopped your intestine just because of adrenaline excess, 00:26:33.600 --> 00:26:40.600 sugar and salt and maybe a little quick thyroid supplement can get it going again. 00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:46.600 Hypothyroidism, one of the classical symptoms is chronic constipation. 00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:54.600 But now that so many people are getting drugged, 00:26:54.600 --> 00:27:01.600 there are a lot of opiates that are being widely prescribed. 00:27:01.600 --> 00:27:12.600 Morphine and opium, everyone knows that they can cause terrible constipation. 00:27:12.600 --> 00:27:19.600 But the intestine is normally a very rich source of endorphins, 00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:24.600 the natural endogenous opiates. 00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:30.600 And so that's one of the ways stress increases the endorphins, 00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:36.600 and the endorphins act just like exogenous opiates do. 00:27:36.600 --> 00:27:41.600 They tend to stop the intestinal action. 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:48.600 So several people have been proposing the anti-opiates 00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:55.600 that have been used for many years for treating heroin overdoses and so on. 00:27:55.600 --> 00:28:02.600 They are seeing that they can cure chronic spontaneous constipation 00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:07.600 just because stress so often increases the endorphins 00:28:07.600 --> 00:28:14.600 to the point that they get a morphine-like constipation. 00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:16.600 That's very interesting. 00:28:16.600 --> 00:28:20.600 So in hypothyroidism as a cause of digestive problems, 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:27.600 and particularly constipation, is the medical world aware of that? 00:28:27.600 --> 00:28:31.600 Oh, they used to be 50 years ago. 00:28:31.600 --> 00:28:37.600 Doctors knew that constipation and dry skin and falling hair 00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:42.600 were the most common signs of hypothyroidism. 00:28:42.600 --> 00:28:50.600 But after the Second World War, medical education changed from perception 00:28:50.600 --> 00:28:55.600 to following instructions of the drug salesman. 00:28:55.600 --> 00:29:01.600 Nowadays it doesn't occur to most doctors to look at the common signs 00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:08.600 and see a simple endocrine solution. 00:29:08.600 --> 00:29:12.600 We're talking to Dr. Raymond Peat, who's a physiologist 00:29:12.600 --> 00:29:17.600 and has a PhD in biology, and we're talking about digestion today. 00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:20.600 You're listening to Politics and Science. 00:29:20.600 --> 00:29:23.600 We're about halfway through. 00:29:23.600 --> 00:29:27.600 I know some people who have been prescribed a product. 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:34.600 I think it's called emodin, and I was lent some of that once when I had diarrhea. 00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:38.600 I don't believe I had another movement for about three weeks after that. 00:29:38.600 --> 00:29:44.600 I was curious if you knew what that was and how it acted. 00:29:44.600 --> 00:29:47.600 No, I don't know what it is. 00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:51.600 I think I've seen it advertised. 00:29:51.600 --> 00:30:01.600 It happens to sound sort of like the good substance in some of the natural oxidates, emodin, 00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:05.600 but I think the one you mentioned is spelled I-M-M. 00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:08.600 Yes, I believe so. 00:30:08.600 --> 00:30:12.600 Yeah, and we should probably talk about emodin 00:30:12.600 --> 00:30:15.600 and the FDA's position on that at this point. 00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:18.600 Maybe you could describe sort of the history of its use 00:30:18.600 --> 00:30:26.600 and where it comes from and what its status is in terms of mainstream medical practice. 00:30:26.600 --> 00:30:33.600 The main traditional laxatives were herbs. 00:30:33.600 --> 00:30:38.600 Sometimes minerals were used, like sulfur. 00:30:38.600 --> 00:30:45.600 Flowers of sulfur works as a laxative, but the most common were herbs. 00:30:45.600 --> 00:30:52.600 Tobacco was sometimes a component of laxatives, 00:30:52.600 --> 00:31:03.600 and that increases the tone of the intestine. 00:31:03.600 --> 00:31:10.600 An herb, noxvomica, is an old one that started. 00:31:10.600 --> 00:31:19.600 It contains strychnine, and that went out of the laxative world about almost 100 years ago. 00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:31.600 The component that remained was emodin, which is in cascara and aloe and rhubarb fruit. 00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:43.600 It has many protective effects other than helping cure constipation. 00:31:43.600 --> 00:31:53.600 But a medical mythology that grew up sometime in the 20th century 00:31:53.600 --> 00:32:00.600 was the idea that these natural laxatives were stimulants. 00:32:00.600 --> 00:32:07.600 But if the intestine isn't swollen, 00:32:07.600 --> 00:32:15.600 you can stimulate it with something like histamine or serotonin. 00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:25.600 But the idea was that the natural laxatives were stimulating the nerves and muscles to contract. 00:32:25.600 --> 00:32:30.600 That was just a mistaken definition of them. 00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:38.600 The other medical idea, fear of stimulants, 00:32:38.600 --> 00:32:46.600 because of the idea that stimulation was going to be addictive, 00:32:46.600 --> 00:32:52.600 around that same time, euphoria became a very bad word. 00:32:52.600 --> 00:32:56.600 Stimulants might cause euphoria. 00:32:56.600 --> 00:32:59.600 Incidentally, a good laxative can cause euphoria, 00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:03.600 but you shouldn't mention that to your doctor. 00:33:03.600 --> 00:33:11.600 But the myth of stimulating by using a laxative 00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:15.600 was what led doctors to advocate drinking more water 00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:21.600 and taking one of these bulk-forming, water-binding laxatives. 00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:25.600 To support their recommendation, 00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:35.600 they claimed that the stimulating laxative would cause the colon to turn brown or black. 00:33:35.600 --> 00:33:44.600 That was supposed to be proof of their harmfulness and addictiveness. 00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:54.600 But it turns out that constipation, the constant irritation of the intestine as a defensive reaction, 00:33:54.600 --> 00:33:59.600 often produces a brown or black pigment. 00:33:59.600 --> 00:34:07.600 So the idea that the brown substance, like cascara or dried aloe, 00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:16.600 became an image in most doctors' minds that it was going to cause this melanosis of the intestine, 00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:21.600 but that just isn't scientifically supported. 00:34:21.600 --> 00:34:26.600 So doctors were using cascara, sagrada, and aloe? 00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:34.600 Yes, that was an old laxative called Nature's Remedy. 00:34:34.600 --> 00:34:43.600 It was for many years, I guess about 100 years, contained just aloe and cascara. 00:34:43.600 --> 00:34:49.600 But about 20 years ago, 00:34:49.600 --> 00:34:56.600 the cancer drug industry started doing research with some of the chemicals 00:34:56.600 --> 00:35:06.600 in the same chemical family as the active ingredient of aloe and cascara. 00:35:06.600 --> 00:35:11.600 One of these was pretty effective at killing cancer, 00:35:11.600 --> 00:35:17.600 but slightly after killing the cancer, it would kill the heart. 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:24.600 It was a synthetic derivative of some of these natural compounds, 00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:28.600 such as anthraquinones. 00:35:28.600 --> 00:35:32.600 Anthraquinones, you said. 00:35:32.600 --> 00:35:33.600 Yes. 00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:38.600 And when this cancer drug was found to kill the heart, 00:35:38.600 --> 00:35:49.600 that research led to look for variations that wouldn't kill the heart, 00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:51.600 but would still kill the cancer. 00:35:51.600 --> 00:36:00.600 And that eventually led them to reinvestigate all of these natural substances. 00:36:00.600 --> 00:36:06.600 And it turns out that the emodin is a good cancer drug, 00:36:06.600 --> 00:36:08.600 even though it doesn't kill your heart. 00:36:08.600 --> 00:36:10.600 But it's a natural substance, 00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:17.600 and so they're still working on how to make a synthetic, patentable version of it 00:36:17.600 --> 00:36:23.600 that they can sell as a cancer drug that doesn't kill the patient. 00:36:23.600 --> 00:36:32.600 But because of the involvement of the cancer industry, 00:36:32.600 --> 00:36:41.600 the FDA began putting out warnings that the natural substance might cause cancer 00:36:41.600 --> 00:36:47.600 because it vaguely resembles some compounds that do cause cancer. 00:36:47.600 --> 00:36:50.600 But there was never research to support that. 00:36:50.600 --> 00:36:56.600 But that added to the laxative addiction doctrine 00:36:56.600 --> 00:37:00.600 and the black intestine doctrine, 00:37:00.600 --> 00:37:09.600 and the FDA used that cancer risk mainly to outlaw the natural substances 00:37:09.600 --> 00:37:11.600 to be sold as laxatives. 00:37:11.600 --> 00:37:16.600 But coincidentally, as they were using that argument, 00:37:16.600 --> 00:37:24.600 within a matter of weeks they granted approval to a drug called Xelnorm, 00:37:24.600 --> 00:37:34.600 which was a synthetic that intensified the serotonin effect 00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:40.600 to simply overstimulate the intestine. 00:37:40.600 --> 00:37:50.600 The FDA, following all of this worry about avoiding stimulant laxatives, 00:37:50.600 --> 00:37:57.600 they approved a synthetic that was nothing but a very powerful stimulant, 00:37:57.600 --> 00:38:00.600 simultaneously with taking off the natural laxatives. 00:38:00.600 --> 00:38:06.600 So the market was wide open for this Xelnorm product to be sold 00:38:06.600 --> 00:38:11.600 at three or four dollars per tablet. 00:38:11.600 --> 00:38:15.600 And since there was a captive market for it, 00:38:15.600 --> 00:38:20.600 they were making something like a billion dollars a year for several years 00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:27.600 until too many people started having their colons die 00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:33.600 or other parts of their intestine die and have to be removed. 00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:41.600 And the drug was authorized for a maximum of, I think it was four months, 00:38:41.600 --> 00:38:45.600 with a possible repetition of a four-month period. 00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:51.600 But after that the doctors were required not to prescribe it anymore, 00:38:51.600 --> 00:38:55.600 even though the company was making so much money. 00:38:55.600 --> 00:38:58.600 And patients did have to use it. 00:38:58.600 --> 00:39:03.600 But the instruction was that after the allotted four-month time, 00:39:03.600 --> 00:39:08.600 then they had to find a laxative solution. 00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:16.600 So the FDA knew that there was no permanent good laxative solution 00:39:16.600 --> 00:39:22.600 and that in Europe it was outlawed because it killed people's intestines. 00:39:22.600 --> 00:39:28.600 But the FDA let them go for about five years, making their billions, 00:39:28.600 --> 00:39:35.600 and then outlawed it but gave them a period of several months 00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:41.600 to use it as an investigational new drug, 00:39:41.600 --> 00:39:47.600 simply a way to let them keep it on the market 00:39:47.600 --> 00:39:58.600 and re-educate the doctors and sort of get out of it, saving some face. 00:39:58.600 --> 00:40:01.600 From the way you describe that, I think listeners can tell 00:40:01.600 --> 00:40:06.600 that you feel that the FDA is a captured agency, basically working hand in hand. 00:40:06.600 --> 00:40:14.600 It would be interesting to see how rich the people in the FDA got after that episode. 00:40:14.600 --> 00:40:17.600 Traditionally, that's what happens. 00:40:17.600 --> 00:40:26.600 The people involved in approving bad drugs very often wind up very rich. 00:40:26.600 --> 00:40:29.600 I think we've all seen that or heard about it, 00:40:29.600 --> 00:40:34.600 where people working for the drug industry rotate out of their drug industry job 00:40:34.600 --> 00:40:37.600 into regulatory agency jobs, and then when that's finished 00:40:37.600 --> 00:40:43.600 and they've done their job there, they move back into the drug industry again. 00:40:43.600 --> 00:40:52.600 Not a very healthy practice for running a government serving the public good. 00:40:52.600 --> 00:41:02.600 The FDA's involvement in these chemicals goes back much farther than just the laxative issue 00:41:02.600 --> 00:41:08.600 because this family of chemical, the quinones, 00:41:08.600 --> 00:41:14.600 was found 100 years ago to be protective. 00:41:14.600 --> 00:41:22.600 Well, the herbal medical people have used it for hundreds of years, 00:41:22.600 --> 00:41:32.600 but scientists 100 years ago started getting interested in the cellular effects of substances 00:41:32.600 --> 00:41:48.600 such as emodin from aloe and cascara, and many colored plant substances contain analogous materials. 00:41:48.600 --> 00:41:58.600 But W.F. Koch was experimenting with the anti-cancer effects of these materials 00:41:58.600 --> 00:42:07.600 as early as the 19-teens and set up a clinic using them in the 1920s. 00:42:07.600 --> 00:42:16.600 The FDA, by the 1940s, were determined to shut him down. 00:42:16.600 --> 00:42:24.600 That story of his trials and the FDA involvement is a good introduction to the politics of science 00:42:24.600 --> 00:42:29.600 for anyone who wants to read about it. 00:42:29.600 --> 00:42:37.600 There were two trials, but he won both trials because so many of his patients were there to testify 00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:41.600 and he had the evidence that they had been cured of their cancers. 00:42:41.600 --> 00:42:50.600 But he moved to Brazil so he would be less persecuted by the FDA. 00:42:50.600 --> 00:42:56.600 And he was producing variations on the quinones? How did you say that? 00:42:56.600 --> 00:42:58.600 Yeah, the quinones. 00:42:58.600 --> 00:42:59.600 Quinones. 00:42:59.600 --> 00:43:10.600 And the FDA's response was that quinones are toxic and he demonstrated in court 00:43:10.600 --> 00:43:15.600 putting a certain amount of a simple quinone into water 00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:22.600 and then diluting it to the strength that he had adjusted, that he injected in the patient. 00:43:22.600 --> 00:43:30.600 And the FDA said there's none in there, but the jury had seen him put it in and dilute it. 00:43:30.600 --> 00:43:36.600 But the FDA's instruments weren't good enough to detect it, 00:43:36.600 --> 00:43:42.600 so they said there's none there, it can't have been what cured the patient. 00:43:42.600 --> 00:43:49.600 And they said if there was any there, it would be toxic because quinones are toxic. 00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:55.600 But about eight years after his second trial, 00:43:55.600 --> 00:44:05.600 ubiquinone or coenzyme Q10 was discovered and found to work exactly as Koch had described 00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:12.600 the function of the quinones that he was using and extracting from plants and such 00:44:12.600 --> 00:44:18.600 as stimulating mitochondrial oxidative metabolism 00:44:18.600 --> 00:44:26.600 with all of its anti-inflammatory, anti-allergic, anti-spasmodic, 00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:33.600 anti-cancer, pro-differentiating, anti-infective effects. 00:44:33.600 --> 00:44:38.600 So his treatment was basically just helping your cells go back to a healthy state. 00:44:38.600 --> 00:44:41.600 Yeah. 00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:51.600 And the fame, he wasn't allowed to publish in any English language medical journal 00:44:51.600 --> 00:45:02.600 after about 1914 or 1917 was his last publication in an English journal. 00:45:02.600 --> 00:45:07.600 But in European and South American journals, he became famous. 00:45:07.600 --> 00:45:19.600 And Albert Centorgi, who came to the US a couple of years after Koch's world-famous win against the FDA, 00:45:19.600 --> 00:45:31.600 Centorgi was researching exactly the same electronic oxidative systems in the cell 00:45:31.600 --> 00:45:33.600 when he was working in Europe. 00:45:33.600 --> 00:45:41.600 That was the basis for his Nobel Prize, much of it besides the vitamin C. 00:45:41.600 --> 00:45:47.600 Vitamin C was sort of incidental to working on the cellular energy metabolism. 00:45:47.600 --> 00:45:54.600 But Centorgi never mentioned the name Koch because if he had, 00:45:54.600 --> 00:46:03.600 he would have gotten the same treatment from the FDA by associating himself with Koch, 00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:06.600 who had been so thoroughly persecuted. 00:46:06.600 --> 00:46:15.600 But throughout his life, Centorgi kept following the Koch approach 00:46:15.600 --> 00:46:22.600 to how cell oxidative processes are essentially, 00:46:22.600 --> 00:46:25.600 they're an essential part of the life process 00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:36.600 and so are the proper place to focus in treating diseases of muscle, nerve function, 00:46:36.600 --> 00:46:43.600 cancer, growth functions, and basically all biological processes. 00:46:43.600 --> 00:46:52.600 So the emodin you were speaking of that was used as a laxative over the traditional medicine, 00:46:52.600 --> 00:46:57.600 and that was actually doctors could prescribe that up until when was the Zell norm? 00:46:57.600 --> 00:46:59.600 When did that come out? 00:46:59.600 --> 00:47:01.600 2002. 00:47:01.600 --> 00:47:06.600 So and at this point, doctors aren't allowed to prescribe emodin? 00:47:06.600 --> 00:47:10.600 I think they can prescribe it, but it can't be sold as a laxative. 00:47:10.600 --> 00:47:14.600 They can just prescribe it as a substance. 00:47:14.600 --> 00:47:17.600 I see, as a food supplement or such. 00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:19.600 Yeah. 00:47:19.600 --> 00:47:20.600 I see. 00:47:20.600 --> 00:47:23.600 So where does it come from, Ray? 00:47:23.600 --> 00:47:25.600 I don't think anybody knows that. 00:47:25.600 --> 00:47:34.600 Oh, well, the rhubarb root and the aloe leaf contain variations of the molecule, 00:47:34.600 --> 00:47:46.600 but the cascara bark all across North America and I guess similar latitudes around the world, 00:47:46.600 --> 00:47:51.600 it's a very common plant, and they just strip the bark off, 00:47:51.600 --> 00:48:00.600 and in its fresh state, the bark will cause stimulation of the intestinal muscles 00:48:00.600 --> 00:48:05.600 and cramping and discomfort. 00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:10.600 So traditionally, it was never used in its fresh state, 00:48:10.600 --> 00:48:19.600 and aging it for at least a year, the bark turns black, just like the color of bitter chocolate, 00:48:19.600 --> 00:48:28.600 and in that state, the soapy quality of the molecule has broken down, 00:48:28.600 --> 00:48:35.600 the glucose part has been removed so that it's an oil-soluble molecule, 00:48:35.600 --> 00:48:39.600 and in that state, it isn't an intestinal stimulant. 00:48:39.600 --> 00:48:52.600 It's an anti-inflammatory, somewhat slightly sedative, energy-increasing substance. 00:48:52.600 --> 00:49:04.600 It decreases many of the chemical processes involved in cancer and many stress conditions. 00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:15.600 Just recently, malaria was found to be toxic by activating a process that's essential to cancer, 00:49:15.600 --> 00:49:27.600 and so it could be that emodin will turn out to be tried as a treatment for many other diseases 00:49:27.600 --> 00:49:31.600 other than cancer and constipation. 00:49:31.600 --> 00:49:34.600 So it's interesting at the same time they're banning that, 00:49:34.600 --> 00:49:44.600 that other sections of science are starting to do some serious research on its efficacy. 00:49:44.600 --> 00:49:49.600 Yeah, the cancer industry is-- 00:49:49.600 --> 00:49:55.600 I suspect that they'll resort to using the natural drug 00:49:55.600 --> 00:50:02.600 as an additive support for one of their patented drugs. 00:50:02.600 --> 00:50:07.600 They've done that with several other substances, for example, 00:50:07.600 --> 00:50:14.600 adding caffeine to some of their cancer therapies 00:50:14.600 --> 00:50:23.600 and simple natural substances that in themselves have an anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer effect. 00:50:23.600 --> 00:50:32.600 It turns out that it makes their cancer drug more effective and less harmful. 00:50:32.600 --> 00:50:37.600 So you're saying they patent something just so that they have the rights to it, 00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:42.600 and then they add the actually effective natural substance that they can't patent to it 00:50:42.600 --> 00:50:45.600 to make their patented thing effective. 00:50:45.600 --> 00:50:55.600 Yeah, that has become fairly common in the cancer drug industry. 00:50:55.600 --> 00:50:59.600 And can you-- maybe it's too much to ask at this point. 00:50:59.600 --> 00:51:03.600 We only have about seven minutes left, but how does the emodin work? 00:51:03.600 --> 00:51:11.600 Does it just basically get your cells to be producing energy the way they're supposed to be again? 00:51:11.600 --> 00:51:19.600 Yeah, I think-- well, the actual consumption of oxygen and production of ATP, 00:51:19.600 --> 00:51:28.600 I think that's secondary to a general tuning up. 00:51:28.600 --> 00:51:40.600 The natural substances, progesterone, caffeine, to some extent the thyroid hormones, 00:51:40.600 --> 00:51:53.600 these bind to proteins and cause the proteins' electronic behavior to change. 00:51:53.600 --> 00:52:03.600 The respiratory chain in the mitochondria is in a way tuned up by the small molecules 00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:05.600 that are associated with it. 00:52:05.600 --> 00:52:20.600 Coenzyme Q10 helps it to take in energy without producing destructive oxidative reactions. 00:52:20.600 --> 00:52:29.600 And vitamin K, which is a quinone analogous to emodin and the other-- 00:52:29.600 --> 00:52:39.600 the anti-cancer and laxative substances, vitamin K increases the effectiveness of coenzyme Q10. 00:52:39.600 --> 00:52:49.600 And there's an overlap with all of these natural regulatory substances 00:52:49.600 --> 00:52:58.600 that can only be explained as a sort of tuning up of the whole cell system. 00:52:58.600 --> 00:53:08.600 The quickest way to get at it probably is to look at Szent-Györgyi's last two or three books 00:53:08.600 --> 00:53:21.600 where he's talking about the various substances that act on DNA and proteins as a system, 00:53:21.600 --> 00:53:27.600 increasing the coherence of the cell electronically. 00:53:27.600 --> 00:53:36.600 And I don't think that these substances will be understood, or cancer or even hormone actions, 00:53:36.600 --> 00:53:42.600 I don't think will be understood unless the coherence of the cell's electronic system 00:53:42.600 --> 00:53:50.600 is taken into account so that the cytoplasm and its constant movement 00:53:50.600 --> 00:54:00.600 and the nucleic acids and their responsiveness to these processes in the cytoplasm 00:54:00.600 --> 00:54:05.600 are integrated with what's happening in the mitochondrion. 00:54:05.600 --> 00:54:12.600 So it isn't like a lock and key where the coenzyme Q10 or the quinone 00:54:12.600 --> 00:54:16.600 is just activating a single enzyme. 00:54:16.600 --> 00:54:22.600 I think it's that they act in many places in a coordinated way 00:54:22.600 --> 00:54:30.600 with the natural efficient structure functioning of the cell. 00:54:30.600 --> 00:54:40.600 And I think you said in your newsletter that the approach of Coke and Szent-Györgyi 00:54:40.600 --> 00:54:48.600 is in contrast to, which is basically making your body healthier and able to deactivate toxins, 00:54:48.600 --> 00:54:53.600 is in contrast to what became sort of the mainstream medical approach 00:54:53.600 --> 00:55:02.600 which was trying to target cancer cells and basically a war mentality. 00:55:02.600 --> 00:55:11.600 Yeah, I see that as something that has gone on ever since the divide 00:55:11.600 --> 00:55:15.600 in how the immune system is seen to function. 00:55:15.600 --> 00:55:24.600 Meshnikoff saw the immune system as a developmental process of the whole organism, 00:55:24.600 --> 00:55:27.600 not just something aimed at killing germs. 00:55:27.600 --> 00:55:38.600 But the drug industry wanted to think of their product as a germ killing analog to the immune system. 00:55:38.600 --> 00:55:46.600 So they shut down the Meshnikoff approach and went to the kill the enemy approach. 00:55:46.600 --> 00:55:54.600 And that drug industry motivated attack against bacteria 00:55:54.600 --> 00:55:59.600 and immediately went over to the approach towards cancer 00:55:59.600 --> 00:56:10.600 as identifying the cancer as an alien mutant rather than as a dysregulation of a natural process. 00:56:10.600 --> 00:56:17.600 So instead of energizing the system to normalize the process of tumor development, 00:56:17.600 --> 00:56:25.600 the whole industry is focused on having to kill the cancer as an alien. 00:56:25.600 --> 00:56:29.600 And going back to digestion, if people in just the minute we have left, 00:56:29.600 --> 00:56:32.600 if people are, I think you've touched on much of this, 00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:40.600 but if people are hoping to improve their digestion, natural food substances that they might use? 00:56:40.600 --> 00:56:48.600 Well, raw carrots, by having a germicidal effect on the bacteria, 00:56:48.600 --> 00:56:53.600 can be very helpful until you get your hormones working. 00:56:53.600 --> 00:57:06.600 A good thyroid and steroid hormone system will make your intestine have the energy to control the flora on its own. 00:57:06.600 --> 00:57:15.600 In the meantime, daily raw carrot helps to keep down the endotoxin absorption. 00:57:15.600 --> 00:57:27.600 And when they're available, cooked bamboo shoots are another good intestine protector that will hold down the endotoxin. 00:57:27.600 --> 00:57:30.600 So those are the fibers you would recommend? 00:57:30.600 --> 00:57:41.600 Yes, because the grain fibers turned out to cause bowel cancer in several research settings. 00:57:41.600 --> 00:57:49.600 And keeping your general nutrition up with adequate protein is the other main thing to make your digestion work. 00:57:49.600 --> 00:58:05.600 So eating milk, cheese, and orange juice along with one of those protective disinfecting fibers will take care of most of the bowel problems. 00:58:05.600 --> 00:58:09.600 I'm afraid we are out of time, Ray. 00:58:09.600 --> 00:58:12.600 So we'll have to cover some of that later. 00:58:12.600 --> 00:58:14.600 But thank you so much for being on today. 00:58:14.600 --> 00:58:15.600 We'll talk to you soon. 00:58:15.600 --> 00:58:16.600 Okay, very good. 00:58:16.600 --> 00:58:18.600 Okay, goodbye. 00:58:18.600 --> 00:58:22.600 And you've been listening to Politics and Science with your host, John Barkhausen. 00:58:22.600 --> 00:58:24.600 And my guest today was Dr. Raymond Peat. 00:58:24.600 --> 00:58:27.600 You can find out more about him at raypeat.com. 00:58:27.600 --> 00:58:31.600 That's R-A-Y-P-E-A-T. 00:58:31.600 --> 00:58:44.600 And you can find out a lot of his information by reading 70 or 90 articles he has posted at his website, raypeat.com, R-A-Y-P-E-A-T.com. 00:58:44.600 --> 00:58:45.600 All right, hope you enjoyed the show. 00:58:45.600 --> 00:58:50.600 Sorry about the bad sound quality, but I hope it was still digestible. 00:58:50.600 --> 00:58:57.600 I've been your host, John Barkhausen, and please tune in again next week for another edition of Politics and Science. 00:58:57.600 --> 00:58:58.560 (dramatic music)