WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.000
 Hello Ray, are you there? Yes. Let me bring you right up. Okay, you're on the air I believe.

00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:18.300
 Okay. Yeah, I can see the needles are moving. So thank you very much for joining me and

00:00:18.300 --> 00:00:26.680
 us this afternoon. And perhaps you have a degree in biology with a specialty in physiology.

00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:31.600
 Do you want to add anything to that besides being a science historian?

00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:39.080
 No, except maybe that I was in the humanities for years before I went to graduate school

00:00:39.080 --> 00:00:45.440
 in biology. Okay. That is an interesting part of your

00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:48.600
 life and maybe we'll be talking about that some.

00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:59.680
 I think it guided the way I treated science, being more critical about the texts that you

00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:05.240
 refer to. And maybe giving you a more humanistic attitude

00:01:05.240 --> 00:01:15.680
 toward science and life? Oh, yeah, more philosophy. Biologists think

00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:25.120
 they have a philosophy of science, but it's pretty rudimentary mechanistic mechanical

00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:33.240
 materialism usually. Do you want to define mechanical materialism

00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:37.840
 for our audience who may not be familiar with that term?

00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:50.200
 Yeah, the difference between organismic thinking in the white-headian sense or historical materialism

00:01:50.200 --> 00:02:00.800
 in the Marxist sense, mechanistic materialism makes a clear distinction between mind and

00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:10.520
 matter. And for them, matter is necessarily unconscious and stupid because intelligence

00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:18.280
 exists only in their realm of mind or idealist philosophy.

00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:27.600
 I see. So it's sort of an elitism of human thought at the expense of the rest of the

00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:34.840
 world? Yeah, a clear distinction between mind and

00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:48.240
 matter. In brain biology, that's changing a lot. People are realizing that you can't

00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:55.080
 solve some of the problems when you think in that dualistic way, but still it tends

00:02:55.080 --> 00:03:06.160
 to be a philosophical idealism rather than a philosophical materialism.

00:03:06.160 --> 00:03:12.680
 Well that's some heady stuff that you're talking about, and I'd like to bring the show, make

00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:20.240
 it fairly down to earth so people can relate to it and know what we're talking about. And

00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:26.880
 I was thinking of talking about today about how we know whether we're healthy or not.

00:03:26.880 --> 00:03:30.840
 I think one of the ways we basically judge ourselves and how we're doing in the world

00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:40.120
 is how healthy we feel and if we feel energized or depressed or stimulated or stressed out.

00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:52.800
 Those are all conditions that we subjectively assess ourselves as having. I think when the

00:03:52.800 --> 00:04:01.800
 medical world came into being, I suppose there were always shamans before that, we used professionals

00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:09.240
 to judge how healthy we are or how we are doing within the world that we live. And I

00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:15.920
 thought it would be interesting to talk about the history of that, how we've oriented ourselves

00:04:15.920 --> 00:04:25.160
 in our world, and also talking about how reality-based that assessment is or how dogmatic it is.

00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:30.960
 And I was thinking to start off, perhaps you could give us your experience from childhood

00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:41.920
 on as to the health challenges you faced or triumphs you've had and how that's shaped

00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:51.840
 your viewpoint on health in general. As a little kid, I was a migrainer periodically,

00:04:51.840 --> 00:05:04.800
 having combination digestive and visually affected headaches. When I was ten, one of

00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:14.840
 the naturopathic doctors prescribed a bag of an herb to make a tea out of that was supposed

00:05:14.840 --> 00:05:23.680
 to affect the migraine syndrome. Years later, I discovered that from the taste of it, it

00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:34.800
 had been marijuana, but it didn't help at all. That was about the extent of my drug

00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:39.920
 treatment. Is that the only doctor you saw as a kid,

00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:46.560
 as a naturopath? What year was that? Can you tell us, Ray?

00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:50.880
 1945. Okay. I didn't know there were naturopaths

00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:56.800
 back then. Oh, sure. They were the original doctors and

00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:08.800
 the modern type of allopathic doctor was just one strand, one ideology of medicine. And

00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:16.800
 there were all kinds of ideologies up until the American Medical Association defined one

00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:23.600
 strand of medicine. How did osteopathy relate to that?

00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:35.040
 It was just one of the theories that the bones were the framework of health and to think

00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:46.840
 about the importance of the bones in general health, many strands emphasized different

00:06:46.840 --> 00:06:56.360
 things like the old humor theory of medicine pretty well died out, but those things were

00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:06.760
 blended into homeopathic medicine and naturopathy. The idea of the homeopathic tradition still

00:07:06.760 --> 00:07:15.640
 has some of that thinking in terms of personality types that are very similar to the old humor

00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:22.840
 medicine. And that reminds... Oh, go ahead, please.

00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:31.840
 The phlegmatic and personalities and such thinking in terms of the fluid related to

00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:41.240
 the various organs. And when you look at the standard medical traditions between France

00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:51.520
 and England, you see a very heavy emphasis in the Latin cultures on the liver and the

00:07:51.520 --> 00:08:04.880
 English on the intestine. And in Latin America, cardiology is a much bigger thing than in

00:08:04.880 --> 00:08:11.960
 Europe or has been traditionally. That's interesting. How do you account for

00:08:11.960 --> 00:08:17.800
 the emphasis on different organs from the different cultures?

00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:31.640
 I think just which school of medicine happened to be most influential or successful.

00:08:31.640 --> 00:08:42.160
 Do you think the humors was influenced or interacted with the Indian and far eastern

00:08:42.160 --> 00:08:46.200
 traditions like the Ayurvedic, if I'm saying that right?

00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:58.160
 Yeah, there was some absorption. The Arabs really were the way Greek medicine came into

00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:09.840
 Europe. Some of the Indian culture got into the Greek medical tradition.

00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:21.040
 And what is the Greek medical tradition? That's the famous Hippocratic Oath. That's the only

00:09:21.040 --> 00:09:34.160
 thing I know about it. Well, it was just pretty empirical with the

00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:49.440
 main branches of it, but it was just a rational attempt to be understanding the organism biologically.

00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:57.440
 And when did these, getting back to indicators of health, before I do that actually, let's

00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:05.080
 talk about how naturopaths and before modern blood tests, how doctors assessed whether

00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:14.680
 a person was healthy or not. It depended a lot on the school of medicine.

00:10:14.680 --> 00:10:23.120
 Some of them would make judgments about which humor was dominating them or which organ.

00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:37.080
 But by the 19th century, different strands of biological information were being integrated

00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:45.200
 into the different theories. So that people started thinking about the cells making up

00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:58.440
 the organs and some of the interactions of the organs. Late in the 19th century, they

00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:09.680
 were realizing that the sugar was secreted by the liver to maintain a steady internal

00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:23.320
 environment. So by the 19th century, different strands of biological information were being

00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:40.400
 assessed. They would feel and smell and even taste the different secretions and lumps on

00:11:40.400 --> 00:11:43.320
 the body and such, and just examine the person as an object to see if there was anything

00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:56.760
 abnormal that they could feel or see or touch, smell. For example, they used to taste the

00:11:56.760 --> 00:12:08.360
 urine to see if a person was diabetic. And there were many ideas about what you could

00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:20.960
 diagnose by smell, including diabetes and cancer. Lately, people have been talking about

00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:29.720
 the ability of dogs to diagnose by smell when a person is about to have a seizure or when

00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:37.120
 they're developing a cancer. Yeah, that's very interesting. Is it their

00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:42.240
 heightened smell or is it telepathic, do you think?

00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:54.200
 Possibly electrical fields. Dogs can apparently detect bioelectric fields the way fish can.

00:12:54.200 --> 00:13:02.560
 But Linus Pauling was probably the first person who thought of diagnosing by analyzing a person's

00:13:02.560 --> 00:13:14.760
 breath and found 250 chemicals in the breath. Only a few places are now taking advantage

00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:27.080
 of that and analyzing, seeing what diseases they can find. For example, nitric oxide is

00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:34.480
 released in the breath when a person has an inflammatory disease. Various inflammatory

00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:43.240
 indicators show up in the breath. Yeah, that's impressive. So basically, they

00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:50.400
 used all their senses to diagnose people and assess how well they were doing.

00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:57.880
 Yeah, as well as listening to their complaints and their history.

00:13:57.880 --> 00:14:06.920
 Yeah, there's a book put out, I think by West Virginia Public Radio. They put out a CD of

00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:13.760
 a recording of a doctor named Roland Sharp, who was a beloved physician down there. He

00:14:13.760 --> 00:14:20.080
 talked about spending most of his time talking to people and that he considered his primary

00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:27.400
 job. He did treat them if they needed it, but he was definitely an old school doctor.

00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:31.600
 And I think even if a doctor wanted to do that now, they would have a difficult time

00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:39.520
 pulling it off in the economic and cultural environment that medicine finds itself in

00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:49.600
 at this point. Yeah, the person often knows more about their

00:14:49.600 --> 00:15:02.040
 disease than they are aware. For example, their dreams will often predict some sickness

00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:10.680
 that's about to come to full awareness. Just on the edge of awareness, if a person is a

00:15:10.680 --> 00:15:18.160
 good listener, sometimes they can draw out information that the person wasn't fully

00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:25.800
 aware of. Yeah. Now I just had somebody call Bill,

00:15:25.800 --> 00:15:31.120
 I think from down in New Zealand, and I tried to accept his call while you were talking

00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:39.760
 and it didn't actually work. It put you on hold, Ray, so we couldn't hear you for a second.

00:15:39.760 --> 00:15:45.560
 So, Bill, if you want to call in again, or maybe he's there, let me just try to bring

00:15:45.560 --> 00:15:54.560
 him up and see if I can make this work. Can you hear me, Ray?

00:15:54.560 --> 00:15:59.440
 Oh, yeah, I can hear you. Okay, why don't you go ahead with your question,

00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.560
 Bill. Yeah, I thought you ought to have a call from

00:16:02.560 --> 00:16:10.240
 10,000 miles away, you know. I was fascinated, Ray, with the opening about your advocating

00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:19.920
 for matter to have the same kind of, perhaps, life, but anyway, at least intelligence as

00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:31.000
 us human species. And what I'm doing here is just suggesting, isn't it interesting that

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:38.600
 we are willing to attribute intelligence to non-material beings like spirits, but not

00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:43.920
 to matter. Thank you so much for being part of MRW.

00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:49.280
 Okay, well thank you, Bill, and thanks for your call, and I would suggest for everybody

00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:54.280
 calling in that if this echo persists, that while you're talking, you turn down your volume

00:16:54.280 --> 00:17:01.600
 on your own computer so that you don't have to listen to your voice coming back to you.

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.920
 Always a problem with phone interfaces. But, Ray, can you still hear me?

00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.400
 Yeah, fine. Did you hear Bill?

00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.920
 Yeah. Oh, good.

00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:23.680
 I think the attitude towards matter that exists still throughout the medical profession and

00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:33.720
 biology in general is basically a religious belief about matter. It is something very

00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:44.680
 separate from science. It's a religious exclusion of spirit, mind, and intelligence from whatever

00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:59.200
 they consider matter. And so an organ or an organism or a material object can't have in

00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:16.320
 itself mentality, spirit, intelligence, and so on, and hardly deserves to be called alive.

00:18:16.320 --> 00:18:26.320
 It's not at all a scientific issue. When I was, I think, about eight or nine years old

00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:34.120
 in an encyclopedia, I read about J.C. Bose's biological experiments right around the turn

00:18:34.120 --> 00:18:48.280
 of the last century. He, coming from the Hindu tradition, didn't have any of the Christian,

00:18:48.280 --> 00:19:03.240
 Jewish, Muslim attitude towards matter, life, and human intelligence. His Hindu background

00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:19.280
 apparently gave him the perspective to ask what lifelike properties exist in the different

00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:25.160
 levels of organization. And so he defined...

00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:31.480
 Dr. Ray Peat. Hi, Ray. Sorry, I dropped out. I don't know why.

00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:42.400
 Bose asked what are the defining features of human life and listed some of the properties

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:59.400
 of sensitivity and reactivity and so on that are standard terms for human life, and then

00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:11.560
 did tests on plants to see if they had any of these animal-like or human-sensitive properties.

00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:27.200
 And he showed that plants showed a reactive physical response to practically any stimulation,

00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:39.560
 especially harmful stimulation. And he then, after designing instruments that would record

00:20:39.560 --> 00:20:49.000
 in a very clear way the reactions of plant tissue to stimulation, he applied the same

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:59.800
 thing to objects such as metal and minerals and showed the same properties of sensitivity,

00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:12.360
 reaction, learning, or adaptation applied to all of the levels of existence, mineral,

00:21:12.360 --> 00:21:28.640
 plant, animal, as well as human. And that didn't fit into the way Western nerve biology

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:42.600
 was developing, but scientifically it was actually more soundly based than the way the

00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:50.160
 English and French and German biologists were thinking about how nerves work.

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:57.880
 And the fact that we can thank Bose for inventing the radio, basically. Marconi, I guess, according

00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:06.320
 to what you've said, got his basic ideas for inventing the actuality of radio from

00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:08.400
 Bose himself, is that right?

00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:15.360
 Yeah, and it was exactly the same kind of physical thinking about the sensitivity of

00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:24.320
 material that led to the invention of the radio as to the explanation of nerve function

00:22:24.320 --> 00:22:26.400
 and muscle function.

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:32.120
 Yeah, that is fascinating. So thank you, Bill, for that call and sorry for the technical

00:22:32.120 --> 00:22:43.520
 problems. So, Ray, maybe I'll just follow up. Was that your only experience with a doctor

00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:46.080
 as a child, was the naturopath?

00:22:46.080 --> 00:22:58.320
 Oh, no, I had one doctor gave me probably almost a lethal dose of radiation by fluoroscoping

00:22:58.320 --> 00:22:59.320
 me.

00:22:59.320 --> 00:23:02.560
 How old were you then?

00:23:02.560 --> 00:23:05.000
 Five, I think.

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.160
 Was there any purpose given for that?

00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:18.440
 Entertaining the doctor and impressing the patients. That was a very popular toy around

00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.120
 1940 or so.

00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:22.040
 And it was in a doctor's office?

00:23:22.040 --> 00:23:23.040
 Yeah.

00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:28.880
 I didn't realize you'd been subjected to that. That's terrible. A fluoroscope, for people

00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:33.800
 who don't know, is basically an x-ray machine. But they used to have them in shoe stores,

00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:35.360
 right, Ray?

00:23:35.360 --> 00:23:36.360
 Yeah.

00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:37.360
 You could get your feet x-rayed.

00:23:37.360 --> 00:23:44.360
 Yeah. Kids would go in and look at their feet, bones.

00:23:44.360 --> 00:23:51.000
 Yeah, and that's the use of technology as novelty, even though many people did know

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:57.200
 that x-rays cause a cumulative and very harmful damage. I think Thomas Edison was completely

00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:02.520
 against the use of radioactive technology, wasn't he?

00:24:02.520 --> 00:24:13.480
 Yeah. He was one of the pioneers in designing the apparatus and such, but his main technician

00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:23.520
 died horribly from exposure to it, and that changed Edison's attitude towards the use

00:24:23.520 --> 00:24:26.600
 of it in medicine.

00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:33.160
 And that must have fueled some of your skepticism toward the medical profession after you found

00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:37.120
 out that it wasn't exactly a healthy thing to do. When did you realize it wasn't a good

00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:38.120
 idea?

00:24:38.120 --> 00:24:48.760
 In 1945 and '46, I was reading, I think because of the atomic bomb, I started reading about

00:24:48.760 --> 00:25:00.600
 radiation, and it was already in the underground culture, the biological effects of medical

00:25:00.600 --> 00:25:13.760
 x-rays was already coming out as a very unwise thing to do. But the medical profession was

00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:22.920
 hardly getting started. They had killed many people by bad apparatus and bad theories and

00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:33.240
 such in the 1930s. That was probably a major year for radiation deaths, but people that

00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:43.000
 I knew in college and later were still getting horrible x-ray treatment for their acne or

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:52.520
 ringworm, they would get their heads x-rayed for ringworm and their face x-rayed. People

00:25:52.520 --> 00:26:02.840
 that I knew in college about ten years after they had had the treatment for acne, for example,

00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:10.320
 some of their skulls had begun collapsing, their sinuses collapsed, so that their faces

00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:24.000
 were deformed. That was still being done in the 1950s. I remember hearing about the English

00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:36.760
 woman Alice Stewart, her study showing that x-raying pregnant women caused leukemia in

00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:49.240
 the babies, that just wasn't acceptable by the medical profession. That was one of the

00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:56.480
 first things that actually got into the medical journals at all, even though it didn't have

00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:02.240
 much weight with most doctors.

00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:08.880
 So that happened when you were five, is that right? No.

00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:17.400
 The fluoroscope experience, but I started reading around 1945 and '46 about the effects

00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:26.840
 of radiation, so I was very interested when Alice Stewart's work came out, because it

00:27:26.840 --> 00:27:39.600
 had been just an underground fringe opinion in those ten or fifteen years before her work.

00:27:39.600 --> 00:27:47.520
 Was it unpatriotic to be against the technology of radiation?

00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:59.640
 It really didn't get started as a political issue until I think the later '50s. It became

00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:11.080
 just a very dangerous thing for any academic person to criticize either x-rays or atmospheric

00:28:11.080 --> 00:28:20.520
 atomic bomb tests. If you said that they were killing people in Utah by the fallout from

00:28:20.520 --> 00:28:30.880
 the bombs, you were probably a communist and a pervert. People who worked for the government

00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:45.840
 immediately would lose their jobs and be smeared by some world's charge or political affiliation.

00:28:45.840 --> 00:28:54.360
 John Gossman was one of the main government propagandists in favor of continuing bomb

00:28:54.360 --> 00:29:06.720
 tests, so I considered him sort of a government demon all through the '50s. And later, I think

00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:16.920
 it was in the late 1960s, that he later said he was giving a speech defending atmospheric

00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:26.280
 bomb testing because there had been no evidence that it caused mutations and death in subsequent

00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:34.800
 generations. He said while he was saying that, he realized that it was a crazy thing to be

00:29:34.800 --> 00:29:42.920
 doing. He simply changed suddenly from being the government's biggest propagandist to...

00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:47.800
 Oh, sorry, Ray, just a second. Hello?

00:29:47.800 --> 00:29:51.760
 Hello. You're on the air here at WMRW with Dr. Ray Peat.

00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:59.400
 Yes, Dr. Peat. My name's George. I'm from Miami. I've got a two-part question. I was

00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:04.800
 wondering if I could pose the first part, which I wanted to see if you're trying to

00:30:04.800 --> 00:30:11.520
 turn off stress hormones, should you err on the possibility of overeating until you're

00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:19.000
 stable with tense impulses?

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:31.440
 Sugar is the single most immediately effective food for stopping stress. Sometimes salt.

00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:44.480
 So a food with mixed components, but including enough sodium and glucose or fructose, will

00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.880
 stop some of the worst stress hormones.

00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:56.880
 Okay. That helps. Here, I'll ask the second part. So would losing excess weight, in fact,

00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:03.240
 help you gain that stability because of reduced body fat?

00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:16.840
 If you lose too fast, that is going to cause damage by oxidative decomposition of the unsaturated

00:31:16.840 --> 00:31:27.840
 fats as they're being oxidized at a higher rate. So I think slow weight loss is the best

00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:36.680
 thing. And having enough protein and minerals in your diet during weight loss can make a

00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:40.600
 tremendous difference in the amount of stress.

00:31:40.600 --> 00:31:49.520
 When a person goes on a complete fast for a week or two, they lose very little fat,

00:31:49.520 --> 00:32:00.080
 but a lot of protein and functioning tissue. But if they eat about a thousand calorie diet

00:32:00.080 --> 00:32:11.600
 for the average person, they can lose almost entirely fat and almost no good protein-y

00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:23.160
 tissue. So the minerals as well as the protein are very important to reduce the stress hormones

00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:27.160
 which will take down your good tissues when you're losing weight.

00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:33.720
 Okay. Well, thank you. I really appreciate it, Dr. Peat, and thank you very much to the

00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:36.320
 host, John, I believe, I guess.

00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:38.960
 Yeah. That's right. Thank you for calling.

00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:40.560
 Okay. Take care.

00:32:40.560 --> 00:32:47.360
 Yeah. Take care. I have another question from somebody related to hormones, Ray. This is

00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:52.480
 from Priscilla, and she's asking, "Can you refer me to a source of information about

00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:58.520
 the workings of hormones in the body? It seems any mention of them is laughed off as having

00:32:58.520 --> 00:33:11.040
 to do with sex or anxiety. I'm thinking there's more involved with hormones than just that."

00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:21.560
 The definition of hormone has changed a lot in the last 30 or 40 years, so that the classical

00:33:21.560 --> 00:33:32.200
 definitions hardly apply anymore. Things have become a lot subtler and more complicated,

00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:41.760
 but it's good to look at one of the classical textbooks of endocrinology just to see the

00:33:41.760 --> 00:33:56.280
 framework of even how complex it was 50 or 100 years ago. One of the good textbooks from

00:33:56.280 --> 00:34:05.080
 about 20, 30, 40 years ago would be Constance Martin. I think it was just called the textbook

00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:08.080
 of endocrinology.

00:34:08.080 --> 00:34:15.080
 Okay. Constance Martin, textbook of endocrinology.

00:34:15.080 --> 00:34:30.280
 Yeah. And Hans Selye, when you want to look at some of the ways science preceded medical

00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:41.600
 understanding, Hans Selye did something called the Encyclopedia of Endocrinology in the 1940s,

00:34:41.600 --> 00:34:54.400
 and his work was very influential for my thinking on endocrinology. He very early showed the

00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:08.360
 dangers of estrogen and the protective effects of progesterone and pregnenolone. If the medical

00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:19.640
 industry had really paid attention, the country would have been much healthier now.

00:35:19.640 --> 00:35:25.720
 Let's see. It's 4.43 here on the East Coast, and you're listening to Politics and Science.

00:35:25.720 --> 00:35:34.920
 My guest today is Dr. Raymond Peat, who has a PhD in biology and a speciality in physiology,

00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:42.040
 and in my opinion, is one of the most comprehensive science historians I've ever spoken to. So

00:35:42.040 --> 00:35:48.800
 if you have a question about science or health, we're welcoming you. If I can make this phone

00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:57.320
 system, Skype phone system work, we will definitely welcome you to the Airwaves. Ray, what was

00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:09.440
 the next doctor experience you had after the fluoroscope and the naturopath at age 10?

00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:22.280
 I stayed away from doctors, but because of my experience with migraine, when I was 9

00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:32.800
 or 10, I started getting nearsighted, and I noticed that the only other kids in my school

00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:43.480
 who were nearsighted were girls, and a couple of them also were migraineurs. That got me

00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:54.800
 thinking why are more girls nearsighted and subject to migraine headaches? So that started

00:36:54.800 --> 00:37:04.640
 me looking in general at people in terms of their hormones and their health symptoms and

00:37:04.640 --> 00:37:18.000
 such. So I was already thinking along the lines of the suppressive effects of estrogen

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:30.640
 on metabolism, blood sugar regulation, and thyroid function. In my early teens, I discovered

00:37:30.640 --> 00:37:41.220
 that a change in my eating rhythm would invariably trigger a migraine. If I was very active physically

00:37:41.220 --> 00:37:47.480
 on a Saturday, for example, that night or the next morning I would develop a migraine

00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:55.200
 just because I had drawn down my glycogen supplies and hadn't replenished them by eating

00:37:55.200 --> 00:38:09.200
 fast enough. After thinking about that for years, I finally realized that I could intervene

00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:19.240
 even if I had waited until a headache was actually started. It happened that I had a

00:38:19.240 --> 00:38:25.360
 couple of quarts of ice cream in the fridge, and realizing that I hadn't been eating enough,

00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:33.080
 I ate a quart of ice cream as fast as I could when the blind spots were already starting

00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:43.240
 to flash and found that they turned right off as I absorbed the ice cream. So for two

00:38:43.240 --> 00:38:50.880
 or three years that was my intervention, always having some ice cream on hand.

00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:56.120
 And you didn't switch to ice cream headaches instead?

00:38:56.120 --> 00:39:03.400
 No, those were very minor.

00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:09.000
 Sorry to interrupt. You were saying something when I did that.

00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:16.720
 Several other things added to that. Someone told me about eating a raw carrot being a

00:39:16.720 --> 00:39:24.120
 way to interrupt a headache, and I found that that worked too. So I would do that every

00:39:24.120 --> 00:39:40.480
 day and not have to worry about keeping ice cream. I had read some of the books of a famous

00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:51.080
 gastroenterologist, Walter Alvarez. He was one of the newspaper doctor columnists, but

00:39:51.080 --> 00:40:05.760
 he was a very imaginative enterologist. He found that the intestine was involved in a

00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:13.800
 very high percentage of headaches. He wanted to disprove the idea that headaches are caused

00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:24.440
 by toxins. He believed they were caused by pressure in the intestine. So to demonstrate,

00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:30.520
 supposedly to disprove the toxin theory, he stuffed some of his medical students' rectums

00:40:30.520 --> 00:40:39.480
 with wads of cotton and about half of them developed headaches. So he said, "See, it's

00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:50.720
 pressure, not toxins." But he didn't actually test whether toxins could do it, too.

00:40:50.720 --> 00:41:00.400
 Other researchers were working on the intestine, both with toxins and pressure. Russian researchers,

00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:09.120
 for example, would put an inflatable balloon in the intestine. When they would blow up

00:41:09.120 --> 00:41:18.000
 the balloon, if the rabbit was in normal health, nothing would happen. But if the rabbit had

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:26.840
 low blood sugar, blowing up the balloon would cause all kinds of symptoms, including epileptic

00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:38.720
 seizures. Other researchers found that an allergen or chemical irritant would cause

00:41:38.720 --> 00:41:47.680
 that whole range of anything from seizures to shock if their blood sugar was low. But

00:41:47.680 --> 00:41:55.040
 if the blood sugar was high, chemical irritants had almost no effect biologically.

00:41:55.040 --> 00:41:59.280
 So that's how the ice cream was working to protect you, with sugar.

00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:10.280
 Yeah. The carrot would apparently do multiple things, absorb toxins or speed along the elimination

00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:18.600
 of toxins and prevent pressure and chemical irritation. So you could work on either side

00:42:18.600 --> 00:42:25.760
 of it, keeping the blood sugar up or eliminating or reducing the irritation to the intestine.

00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.400
 That's very interesting. I have a lot more questions here from people that I should probably

00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.680
 get to before the next hour whizzes by and we're done. But I forgot to, and saying people

00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:46.320
 could call, I forgot to give out the number. And that's 802-526-2326. That's 802-526-2326.

00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:51.160
 That's if you have a phone, that's my Skype number. And if you're on a computer, you can

00:42:51.160 --> 00:42:56.960
 Skype John Barkhausen, all one word. And if I can figure out the Skype system, I will

00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:04.920
 bring you up on the air with Dr. Ray Peat, who's on the line right now from Eugene, Oregon.

00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:14.640
 So just getting back to my loose theme here of indicators of health, at some point blood

00:43:14.640 --> 00:43:24.400
 tests began to be used extensively by the medical profession. When did that start?

00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:37.840
 My awareness of it started around the late 1940s when some of my fat friends in school

00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:44.160
 told me that they had previously been told that they had a glandular problem and had

00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:53.400
 been given thyroid. But with the new medical science in the late 40s, they discovered that

00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:58.880
 they were just gluttons and ate too much. They had no hormone problems because their

00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:08.120
 blood tests, they had given a test called protein-bound iodine. That was the scientific

00:44:08.120 --> 00:44:15.280
 thing in the late 40s and all through the 50s into the 60s. And if your protein-bound

00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:22.320
 iodine was okay, you just had the psychological problem of eating too much. So where about

00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:29.520
 half of the people who went to the doctors with overweight would get a thyroid prescription

00:44:29.520 --> 00:44:32.560
 and cure their problem.

00:44:32.560 --> 00:44:41.680
 After science intervened with the blood test, 95% of those people, well 95% of the population,

00:44:41.680 --> 00:44:49.520
 so about half of the people who had been on thyroid were told that they were perfectly

00:44:49.520 --> 00:45:01.040
 normal hormonally and taken off thyroid. And at that same time, synthetic thyroxine was

00:45:01.040 --> 00:45:10.680
 introduced and it was tested on medical students who at that time were all young men in their

00:45:10.680 --> 00:45:21.200
 early 20s. And when they were given a dose of synthetic thyroxine, it worked just exactly

00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:33.720
 the same as a dose of armor thyroid had worked. So the pharmaceutical industry displaced the

00:45:33.720 --> 00:45:41.960
 meat industry-based armor product because it was more scientific and in fact it was

00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:52.520
 a single hormone rather than a dehydrated gland. And combined with the protein-bound

00:45:52.520 --> 00:46:02.240
 iodine blood test, that really ruined the health of the country by failing to give thyroid

00:46:02.240 --> 00:46:12.200
 to nearly everyone who needed it. And when they did need it, they would prescribe the

00:46:12.200 --> 00:46:21.280
 synthetic form. And they neglected to notice that most thyroid patients were women, a ratio

00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:32.320
 of 5 or 10 times to the incidence in men. And that women, especially if their thyroid

00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:42.080
 is low, their livers are much more sluggish than men's. It's easier for a woman, especially

00:46:42.080 --> 00:46:47.880
 in the premenstrual time, to get drunk on a small amount of alcohol because the liver

00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:54.840
 throws it off so slowly. And the same with aspirin and other drugs. Women are more sensitive

00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:08.680
 because the liver is slowed down by estrogen, which also contributes to the problem of hypothyroidism.

00:47:08.680 --> 00:47:18.240
 And in women, it neglected to test the comparison between armor thyroid and synthetic thyroxine.

00:47:18.240 --> 00:47:26.960
 But it happens that when the liver is very sluggish, the thyroxine isn't turned to the

00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:38.760
 active hormone. But it does suppress the pituitary. The pituitary senses that there is the presence

00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:47.040
 of thyroid hormone and stops stimulating the gland. So if the liver isn't converting it

00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:56.480
 to the active hormone, the gland is going to decrease its production because the T4's

00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:09.840
 thyroxine is accumulating. So the frequent event throughout the 1950s and 60s was that

00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:18.120
 women would actually be made worse by turning off their remaining thyroid function by dosing

00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:28.800
 them with a synthetic, inappropriate drug, which had been tested on young, healthy men

00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:34.600
 whose livers were able to turn into the active hormone.

00:48:34.600 --> 00:48:40.080
 So that's a case of them doing the tests but interpreting them in such a way that it actually

00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:42.280
 didn't help the health of the patient.

00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:53.600
 Yeah. And during this time, the protein-bound iodine test showed that very few people in

00:48:53.600 --> 00:49:05.840
 any population, only 5% tested low, which they thought meant low thyroid function. But

00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:18.080
 then as new tests became possible in the 60s using immune techniques, they found that the

00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:28.920
 protein-bound iodine test had nothing to do with thyroid function. So the concept had

00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:37.720
 been built into the profession that only 5% of people are really biologically lacking

00:49:37.720 --> 00:49:39.480
 thyroid function.

00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:51.960
 So they devised new tests and standardized the new test on the same population framework

00:49:51.960 --> 00:50:01.920
 that the meaningless test had created. So now they said, "We know that 5% of the people

00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:10.760
 are going to be hypothyroid, so let's adjust our new sensitive tests to fit that old concept."

00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:18.560
 And ever since then, that has been no matter how sensitive your measurement of any of the

00:50:18.560 --> 00:50:29.440
 thyroid functions can get, if they're stuck on the idea that the normal range is going

00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:38.720
 to be covered by 95% of the results, they stretch whatever fine test they might develop

00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:43.760
 to fit a bad definition of normal.

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:47.640
 It's like they didn't bother to figure out what healthy means before they decided what

00:50:47.640 --> 00:50:51.480
 the range for a healthy thyroid is.

00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:56.040
 That apparently never occurred even at the time when they were telling people that they

00:50:56.040 --> 00:51:01.400
 were gluttons rather than deficient in thyroid.

00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:09.640
 The test completely knocked out meaning and sense from diagnosis and treatment.

00:51:09.640 --> 00:51:14.840
 And is that, do you think Ray, that's because the pharmaceuticals and money got involved

00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:19.080
 or is it just they took a wrong turn somewhere and never looked back?

00:51:19.080 --> 00:51:25.640
 Oh yeah, the drug industry controls the world.

00:51:25.640 --> 00:51:34.120
 It was obvious in the way both the protein-bound iodine test and the synthetic thyroxine, how

00:51:34.120 --> 00:51:39.800
 they took over the mind of medicine.

00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:49.680
 And Carla Rothenberg who was a law student at Harvard wrote a very good paper on the

00:51:49.680 --> 00:52:00.960
 history of the estrogen industry during those same years, early 1940s, showed that the industry

00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:09.560
 didn't like the way science was going which was showing that estrogen was able to create

00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:20.280
 abortions and produce cancer, inflammation, degeneration, all sorts of bad things.

00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:32.880
 But they had products that could be made cheaply and they decided with a conspiracy of I think

00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:44.800
 it was 12 or 13 big corporations with an estrogen product, they decided to get the FDA in line

00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:59.480
 and get the population in line with mass media, public relations and journal articles and

00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:08.640
 pressure on the FDA to sell the idea that estrogen was a fertility-promoting medicine

00:53:08.640 --> 00:53:12.000
 rather than a sterility promoter.

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:23.480
 And so starting right in 1942, science was turned on its head for basically about 60

00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:24.800
 years.

00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.880
 That's unfortunate but fascinating still.

00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:37.120
 And I have to say right now that this is WMRWLP Warren and you're listening to a live edition

00:53:37.120 --> 00:53:40.840
 of Politics and Science with Dr. Raymond Peat on the line.

00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:49.440
 He's a physiologist, PhD in biology and a science historian from Eugene, Oregon and

00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.680
 we're accepting questions on the air.

00:53:52.680 --> 00:54:02.040
 If you call 802-526-2326, questions about science or medicine or philosophy and you

00:54:02.040 --> 00:54:08.800
 can also email info@wmrw.org if you'd like to send an email question and I should get

00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.760
 to some of these email questions before we run out of time.

00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:20.600
 So let me see, Paul has sent a question, "By reducing conflict with others and within one's

00:54:20.600 --> 00:54:28.080
 own mind and thereby lowering stress hormones, can kindness, generosity and ethical conduct

00:54:28.080 --> 00:54:30.720
 thereby promote healthy metabolism?"

00:54:30.720 --> 00:54:35.160
 Yes, I think so.

00:54:35.160 --> 00:54:36.160
 Okay.

00:54:36.160 --> 00:54:40.560
 And he has a follow-up, "Do you ever recommend meditation?

00:54:40.560 --> 00:54:45.920
 Why or why not?"

00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:59.960
 In the sense of watching your own consciousness, being mindful of your body and of the world

00:54:59.960 --> 00:55:10.000
 in general and how they interact, I think everyone should always be doing that.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:11.720
 Practicing awareness.

00:55:11.720 --> 00:55:23.720
 Yes, and especially the interactions so that you can see what your needs are and not confuse

00:55:23.720 --> 00:55:28.960
 them with what's really happening in reality.

00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:41.640
 By being aware of yourself and the world, you can avoid confusing the two.

00:55:41.640 --> 00:55:45.800
 You've often, or I don't know if it's you who said it originally, I think other people

00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:53.040
 have said this, that we don't actually end where our skin ends, that we are all part

00:55:53.040 --> 00:55:56.680
 of the environment around us.

00:55:56.680 --> 00:55:57.680
 And so how do you...

00:55:57.680 --> 00:55:58.680
 Go ahead.

00:55:58.680 --> 00:56:08.720
 Yes, when I was working on linguistics, I realized that people are really participating,

00:56:08.720 --> 00:56:12.480
 they're inside each other's minds.

00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:27.840
 The way language works, a Russian physiologist, one of Pavlov's students, devised a way of

00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:35.120
 explaining how reflexes work in terms of what he called the "acceptor of action," which

00:56:35.120 --> 00:56:43.400
 is essentially a model of the world that is built in our consciousness.

00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:54.160
 And we adjust that according to the results of our senses and interaction with the world.

00:56:54.160 --> 00:57:08.000
 And that's our mind, our intention, and our knowledge.

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:12.240
 It stores everything that we've learned.

00:57:12.240 --> 00:57:23.240
 And it completely changes the idea of what a reflex and a sense is.

00:57:23.240 --> 00:57:27.960
 And then Paul has another question, and this probably enters primarily into the world of

00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:33.840
 politics, although I suppose forensic science is part of this, and logic.

00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:38.200
 Do you consider the US government's explanation for the destruction of the World Trade Center

00:57:38.200 --> 00:57:42.800
 towers on 9/11/2001 plausible?

00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:47.720
 And if not, what explanations do you consider most plausible?

00:57:47.720 --> 00:57:59.320
 No, I haven't heard anything from any government official that makes sense.

00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:12.800
 And I think there are quite a few possible explanations, but several of them are more

00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:15.720
 plausible than the government story.

00:58:15.720 --> 00:58:20.440
 All right, and see, I'm just going to keep running.

00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:21.760
 Paul gave me five questions.

00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:22.760
 They're all good ones.

00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:27.880
 So, can you please discuss the functions of the hormone oxytocin and its relationship,

00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:32.080
 if any, with metabolism?

00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:43.760
 It's one of the adaptive hormones, but it has some stress-related responses.

00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:53.960
 So I don't see it as the happiness and euphoria hormone.

00:58:53.960 --> 00:59:00.880
 It can go up under stress, too, and its effects aren't all good.

00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:13.640
 It's sort of like the parasympathetic system is a good relief to the sympathetic and anxiety-related

00:59:13.640 --> 00:59:17.280
 system, but you don't want to go too far in that direction.

00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:22.480
 It's a matter of having it at the right time and in balance.

00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:23.480
 I see.

00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:26.480
 There are many hormones like that, right?

00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:34.200
 They're key at certain times, but you want to stop them and not let them go on.

00:59:34.200 --> 00:59:42.120
 Yeah, and definitely that's the case with those pituitary hormones.

00:59:42.120 --> 00:59:51.280
 All of the pituitary hormones are pretty expendable as long as you keep your thyroid working.

00:59:51.280 --> 01:00:02.000
 Several researchers removed pituitaries and gave thyroid, sometimes cortisol, and found

01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:08.640
 that the animals were healthier without their pituitaries, and so they were losing their

01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:15.200
 oxytocin and all of the pituitary hormones went when they removed the glands.

01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:26.040
 The animals, if they were given thyroid, could live even longer than normal.

01:00:26.040 --> 01:00:27.040
 Another question here.

01:00:27.040 --> 01:00:30.880
 In your books and interviews, you often provide examples of people who recovered quickly from

01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:35.400
 serious health problems by changing their diets or supplementing with pro-metabolic

01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:38.640
 substances such as thyroid or progesterone.

01:00:38.640 --> 01:00:42.580
 While these examples can be very inspiring, at times they can be somewhat dispiriting

01:00:42.580 --> 01:00:46.880
 to people who have struggled with health problems for a long time and do not respond quickly

01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:49.800
 to similar changes in diet or supplements.

01:00:49.800 --> 01:01:02.160
 Can you offer any anecdotes about slow, gradual healing that may comfort or inspire such people?

01:01:02.160 --> 01:01:12.880
 When it isn't instantaneous, if you keep working on it, it tends to be gradual.

01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:23.200
 When you are lucky and hit the missing thing on the first try, you can see things in an

01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:28.280
 hour or less go from miserable to perfect.

01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:37.080
 But if you don't happen to hit on the one missing factor, then it can involve a very

01:01:37.080 --> 01:01:42.760
 slow repair of many systems.

01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:51.120
 Sometimes, for example, a person will supplement progesterone and feel that everything is perfect,

01:01:51.120 --> 01:02:00.160
 but then they hit another point in the monthly cycle and things go out of balance.

01:02:00.160 --> 01:02:06.480
 Often they have to go through two or three of those monthly phases, even when they are

01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:08.880
 on exactly the right track.

01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:19.960
 The body changes so drastically, cyclically, that it goes through repair phases during

01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:24.520
 those cycles.

01:02:24.520 --> 01:02:32.840
 When it's other things, other than a simple cyclic progesterone or thyroid function, it

01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:36.640
 can take a slow repair process.

01:02:36.640 --> 01:02:42.000
 For example, bones can take quite a while to repair.

01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:55.160
 But I've seen people with crippling arthritis immediately, overnight or within an hour sometimes

01:02:55.160 --> 01:03:03.440
 their joint becomes painless and works where it had been crunching and popping.

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:09.200
 There's another question here.

01:03:09.200 --> 01:03:12.880
 Sean wants to know, "What are your plans for the next five or ten years?

01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:18.000
 Are you planning on any new books or research or lectures?

01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:21.320
 Continue to write newsletters?"

01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:22.320
 Anything specific?

01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:34.440
 As far as I know, I expect to keep writing newsletters and I've got some ideas for books,

01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:45.880
 but as I discover new things, my idea of what a good book should be changes.

01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:57.280
 Currently, I've been thinking about the importance of carbon monoxide in our endogenous regulatory

01:03:57.280 --> 01:03:58.280
 processes.

01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:10.360
 For about 20 years, I've been talking about the importance of keeping your carbon dioxide

01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:11.360
 up.

01:04:11.360 --> 01:04:18.640
 One of the things that everything I've been talking about, getting enough bright light,

01:04:18.640 --> 01:04:26.320
 thyroid, drinking coffee, eating fruit and keeping your carbon dioxide up, one thing

01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:34.320
 that is acted on in the same direction by all of those is carbon monoxide.

01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:43.760
 When we're under stress, we produce that and these helpful factors help to get rid

01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:52.680
 of it or to decrease its production under stress.

01:04:52.680 --> 01:04:59.040
 When the stress is simply enough, for example, the monthly cycles or the daily cycles that

01:04:59.040 --> 01:05:11.920
 cause our pituitary to become active cyclically more or less, the ups and downs of ACTH and

01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:20.680
 thyroid stimulating hormone and oxytocin and so on, all of the pituitary hormones are acting

01:05:20.680 --> 01:05:29.000
 at least partly by way of increasing carbon monoxide production where they're acting on

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:34.200
 the gland or in tissue.

01:05:34.200 --> 01:05:40.720
 That seems to be one of the reasons why removing the pituitary gland in these experimental

01:05:40.720 --> 01:05:50.360
 animals had such beneficial effects because of the harmful age-advancing effects of the

01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:52.320
 endogenous carbon monoxide.

01:05:52.320 --> 01:06:00.360
 I was just driving around in my plow truck that has a terrible carbon monoxide problem.

01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:03.680
 The window is wide open.

01:06:03.680 --> 01:06:11.120
 It sounds like it's dangerous from outside sources as well as inside.

01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:14.360
 The outside adds to what's going on the inside.

01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:25.560
 So if someone has a tendency to liver disease or seizures or such, any little fluctuation

01:06:25.560 --> 01:06:36.280
 like going downtown where the carbon monoxide might be illegal 20 or 30 parts per million,

01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:41.600
 that could be enough to seriously bring on your symptoms.

01:06:41.600 --> 01:06:44.720
 Even if you're only there for half an hour?

01:06:44.720 --> 01:06:45.720
 Yeah.

01:06:45.720 --> 01:06:49.280
 Yeah, it's a trigger.

01:06:49.280 --> 01:07:00.000
 When I used to drive a lot through downtown Los Angeles or Seattle, I would tend to get

01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:07.720
 lost on the days when the carbon monoxide was up around 50 parts per million.

01:07:07.720 --> 01:07:16.840
 If I got out of my lane, I would have a hard time finding where I was supposed to go.

01:07:16.840 --> 01:07:21.880
 That's terrible, Ray.

01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:26.360
 I should mention also that this is a special we're doing here on Politics and Science today

01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:29.040
 with Dr. Raymond Peat.

01:07:29.040 --> 01:07:32.880
 It's a special because we're having a fundraiser, our February fundraiser.

01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:36.120
 It's the only one we do on air so far all year round.

01:07:36.120 --> 01:07:37.800
 We have a very small budget.

01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:43.280
 It's only 12 grand, but we do need to make it up to keep broadcasting all year.

01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:47.680
 So anybody who has any money they can throw our way.

01:07:47.680 --> 01:07:49.760
 It's greatly appreciated and it's easy to do.

01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:57.400
 You just go to our website, wmrw.org and click the pig to make a PayPal or credit card donation.

01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:00.560
 It's a tax-deductible donation because we're a non-profit.

01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:04.320
 On top of that, there's nobody here getting paid.

01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:10.520
 Every dollar or penny you contribute goes directly to our operating expenses.

01:08:10.520 --> 01:08:12.680
 Thank you everybody for all your donations.

01:08:12.680 --> 01:08:14.520
 We do appreciate it.

01:08:14.520 --> 01:08:17.360
 We've had some in your honor today, Ray.

01:08:17.360 --> 01:08:20.080
 You'll be glad to hear.

01:08:20.080 --> 01:08:22.200
 Very much appreciate you coming on today.

01:08:22.200 --> 01:08:27.240
 I have a question here from Wade.

01:08:27.240 --> 01:08:32.960
 He's asking why certain diseases present as they do.

01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:38.800
 Why does someone develop Alzheimer's while another gets multiple sclerosis or some other

01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:44.620
 pattern of degenerative disease when the basic premise is a failure of energy?

01:08:44.620 --> 01:08:50.920
 What determines the disease course that a person takes?

01:08:50.920 --> 01:09:01.480
 The health of your other organs influences the shape of the deterioration of your nervous

01:09:01.480 --> 01:09:03.840
 system.

01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:16.560
 The amount of clotting material, for example, is probably higher or at least more unstable

01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:20.240
 than multiple sclerosis.

01:09:20.240 --> 01:09:32.480
 They find clots tend to associate with the plaques or the inflamed areas in multiple

01:09:32.480 --> 01:09:36.240
 sclerosis.

01:09:36.240 --> 01:09:47.120
 The clotting of fibrin deposits aren't the factor in Alzheimer's plaques, but it does

01:09:47.120 --> 01:09:50.120
 relate to the clotting system.

01:09:50.120 --> 01:09:57.840
 Some people think that the amyloid which forms the plaque, a particular kind of protein,

01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:06.440
 they think that the brain is producing that to make up for the leakiness of the capillaries

01:10:06.440 --> 01:10:08.720
 in Alzheimer's disease.

01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:17.000
 It's sort of the opposite process in multiple sclerosis where the clot seems to start the

01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:18.640
 process.

01:10:18.640 --> 01:10:29.680
 The fibrin deposits break down, releases inflammatory material and starts an inflammation in that

01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:31.400
 clotted area.

01:10:31.400 --> 01:10:42.320
 With Alzheimer's, the capillaries get leaky, produce a micro hemorrhage, some heme or hemoglobin

01:10:42.320 --> 01:10:54.200
 leaks out and an enzyme that clears away the heme or hemoglobin is the enzyme that forms

01:10:54.200 --> 01:11:03.160
 carbon monoxide and this enzyme is known to be associated with amyloid plaques.

01:11:03.160 --> 01:11:17.400
 So it's basically a blood vessel leaky problem being handled from opposite sides and each

01:11:17.400 --> 01:11:28.720
 type of degeneration has its own ways of working, trying to correct a problem and failing to

01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:30.840
 do it.

01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:40.400
 Cancer develops possibly starting with the same leakage of blood vessels and hemoglobin

01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:48.320
 possibly leading to increased deposition of connective tissue and collagen producing an

01:11:48.320 --> 01:12:00.440
 atrophied area and within that area of atrophy, cells can convert themselves to live without

01:12:00.440 --> 01:12:08.440
 the ordinary support of the environment because of the deranged connective tissue, the chronic

01:12:08.440 --> 01:12:13.560
 stress and irritation has produced.

01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:22.040
 So you get the same elements involved but in different ways.

01:12:22.040 --> 01:12:35.960
 Atrophy, malfunction, tumor formation, invasive cancer and so on, all our cells trying to

01:12:35.960 --> 01:12:46.360
 correct a problem but not having enough energy to do it fully and properly.

01:12:46.360 --> 01:12:53.600
 And we so often hear from the medical professionals and from the media who seem to magnify what

01:12:53.600 --> 01:12:59.760
 they say that genetics is what determines whether you get a disease or not.

01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:05.760
 That must have some play in which way disease manifests itself, doesn't it?

01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:14.040
 Yeah, everyone has genes so genetics explains everything.

01:13:14.040 --> 01:13:24.320
 But the way they prove that certain mutations are responsible, they just haven't ever made

01:13:24.320 --> 01:13:32.800
 a convincing case because first you have to define what the normal populations genes are

01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:41.840
 and it turns out that usually about half of the people with the disease might have genes

01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:49.320
 that contribute to it, others don't and a large proportion of perfectly healthy people

01:13:49.320 --> 01:13:53.360
 have a fully mutated set of genes.

01:13:53.360 --> 01:14:04.480
 And Harry Rubin has pointed out, he was a biology professor at UC Berkeley, he pointed

01:14:04.480 --> 01:14:15.720
 out that very highly mutated cells can have dozens of cancer promoting mutations.

01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:25.720
 These cells, as long as they're in a basically healthy organism, don't produce cancer.

01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:36.040
 It's the failure of the organism's support system interacting but basically it's the

01:14:36.040 --> 01:14:43.440
 organism problem starting first, then mutations occur because of the stress on the tissue

01:14:43.440 --> 01:14:47.240
 because of the failure of the organism's support system.

01:14:47.240 --> 01:14:56.280
 I see, so you may have a propensity inherited from an environmental exposure that your predecessor

01:14:56.280 --> 01:15:02.480
 had but the environment can also heal that if it gives you enough energy.

01:15:02.480 --> 01:15:11.520
 Yeah, and there's a sort of momentum in the whole physiological pattern that can pass

01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:19.840
 on from generation to generation in a way of expressing the genes.

01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:28.720
 So even the definition of what a genetic defect is has changed radically.

01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:37.920
 The influence of the environment on the parent can affect the methylation of the genes and

01:15:37.920 --> 01:15:43.360
 that can affect their tendency to be expressed or not.

01:15:43.360 --> 01:15:52.000
 So it's like a weight or an influence that can accumulate generation to generation and

01:15:52.000 --> 01:16:02.200
 make it harder for a given individual to correct it but still it's only a tendency of the gene

01:16:02.200 --> 01:16:04.800
 to express or not.

01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:08.920
 Well, we're running out of time here actually.

01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:14.000
 We have another 35 minutes to go but it's going by very fast so I'm just going to keep

01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:16.800
 doing these questions as more are coming in by email.

01:16:16.800 --> 01:16:23.480
 You can email them to politicsandscience@madriver.com but probably the easiest at this point is

01:16:23.480 --> 01:16:24.480
 info@wmrw.org.

01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:27.160
 I'll get those too.

01:16:27.160 --> 01:16:33.960
 So info@wmrw.org if you want to email in a question right now.

01:16:33.960 --> 01:16:36.200
 And here's the next one.

01:16:36.200 --> 01:16:42.240
 As your work increases in popularity, people are quoting you more and more in an authoritarian

01:16:42.240 --> 01:16:48.280
 context in discussion groups on the internet I think to the degree that if you haven't

01:16:48.280 --> 01:16:55.400
 said something or written it then other sources of input can't possibly have validity as well.

01:16:55.400 --> 01:16:57.920
 How do you want to be seen?

01:16:57.920 --> 01:17:01.760
 How do you, I'm paraphrasing here because it has the wrong pronouns, but how do you and

01:17:01.760 --> 01:17:03.200
 your work want to be seen?

01:17:03.200 --> 01:17:04.200
 Are you a teacher?

01:17:04.200 --> 01:17:09.000
 Teacher is an overused word that is losing meaning within the public school system frame

01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:10.320
 of reference.

01:17:10.320 --> 01:17:16.080
 So can you define that word in terms of how you would like it used?

01:17:16.080 --> 01:17:28.440
 Well as a teacher even in the state university or well-defined setting, when I was assigned

01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:36.920
 to teach a course that had a description in the university catalog, I would read the description

01:17:36.920 --> 01:17:44.120
 of the course and see what textbooks were being used to teach the course.

01:17:44.120 --> 01:17:53.520
 And then staying within the abstract definition of what the course was supposed to cover,

01:17:53.520 --> 01:18:00.760
 I would basically criticize the textbooks that were available and were being used.

01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:09.840
 So if the students were required to buy a textbook, I would fairly carefully demolish

01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:15.080
 the textbook as far as I could.

01:18:15.080 --> 01:18:23.120
 So I think a teacher's function should be essentially criticism of the cultural stereotypes

01:18:23.120 --> 01:18:34.920
 that the students are confronted with and showing the student how to go about criticizing

01:18:34.920 --> 01:18:39.320
 the things that they are going to be constantly confronted with.

01:18:39.320 --> 01:18:40.320
 I see.

01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:43.640
 So you're basically teaching by example.

01:18:43.640 --> 01:18:47.200
 Yeah, I guess.

01:18:47.200 --> 01:18:49.400
 All right.

01:18:49.400 --> 01:18:51.920
 I like that.

01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:59.120
 Now here's a specific question about health.

01:18:59.120 --> 01:19:04.440
 Is it useful to compare the basal metabolic rate or the resting metabolic rate to the

01:19:04.440 --> 01:19:15.520
 daily caloric intake in order to gauge one's metabolic rate?

01:19:15.520 --> 01:19:20.360
 There are many ways you can do it.

01:19:20.360 --> 01:19:23.880
 And why would you do that, Ray, just for everybody else who's listening?

01:19:23.880 --> 01:19:32.600
 Oh, well, the more alive you are, the more energy is running through you.

01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:44.720
 When an egg is fertilized, as soon as it gets itself going, it starts a tremendous increase

01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:47.720
 in oxygen consumption.

01:19:47.720 --> 01:20:02.640
 And from then until if you measure the oxygen per gram of weight, the oxygen consumption

01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:05.720
 decreases for the rest of your life.

01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:14.360
 From puberty to old age, oxygen consumption decreases by about 70% unless you intervene

01:20:14.360 --> 01:20:23.600
 with controlling the inflammatory hormones and supporting thyroid function.

01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:36.320
 And the mortality, when the hormones change at puberty, the incidence, the likelihood

01:20:36.320 --> 01:20:44.800
 of dying increases steadily from puberty on.

01:20:44.800 --> 01:20:53.480
 That corresponds to the decrease of ability to consume oxygen, burn energy.

01:20:53.480 --> 01:21:06.080
 And that's basically because of the structure-building influence of the flow of energy through matter.

01:21:06.080 --> 01:21:08.880
 It's exactly what J.C.

01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:14.440
 Bose was talking about.

01:21:14.440 --> 01:21:22.960
 Matter flows through-energy flows through all matter, but it does it more complicatedly

01:21:22.960 --> 01:21:25.960
 through higher organisms.

01:21:25.960 --> 01:21:36.200
 But it's basically the same process that he used in making his radio receiver.

01:21:36.200 --> 01:21:45.640
 The way the matter responded to the fields around it determined the way the energy flowed

01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:46.640
 through it.

01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:47.640
 Yeah.

01:21:47.640 --> 01:21:52.680
 So, what Sandy's asking here, is it useful to compare the basal metabolic rate or resting

01:21:52.680 --> 01:21:57.760
 metabolic rate to the daily caloric intake in order to get a full picture of the metabolic

01:21:57.760 --> 01:21:58.760
 rate?

01:21:58.760 --> 01:21:59.760
 Is that-

01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:00.760
 Yeah.

01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:08.160
 If you can put a person in a container and measure the heat being produced, that's one

01:22:08.160 --> 01:22:09.360
 way of doing it.

01:22:09.360 --> 01:22:18.240
 Or you can measure the amount of oxygen consumed or the amount of carbon dioxide produced.

01:22:18.240 --> 01:22:26.240
 Or over a period of time, just the amount of food that disappears and is turned into

01:22:26.240 --> 01:22:28.280
 carbon dioxide.

01:22:28.280 --> 01:22:36.960
 You can weigh the food that's being converted or the gases that are being produced or consumed.

01:22:36.960 --> 01:22:43.280
 Or you can measure the amount of water that you evaporate because that's an index of how

01:22:43.280 --> 01:22:46.080
 much heat you're producing.

01:22:46.080 --> 01:22:52.920
 And so, if you measure all the fluids you take in for 24 hours and subtract the amount

01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:59.120
 of urine produced, the missing water is how much you've evaporated.

01:22:59.120 --> 01:23:04.680
 And so, that's a way of doing calorimetry indirectly.

01:23:04.680 --> 01:23:05.680
 Interesting.

01:23:05.680 --> 01:23:12.920
 And then, I suppose you'd have to compare yourself to somebody who was considered healthy.

01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:14.320
 Yeah.

01:23:14.320 --> 01:23:17.600
 Now, the famous G.W.

01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:28.880
 Kryol and his wife went around the world with basal metabolic apparatus and they found that

01:23:28.880 --> 01:23:41.040
 everyone in very different cultures from the Eskimos to tropical people in Africa and Central

01:23:41.040 --> 01:23:52.840
 America, their basal metabolic rates were about 30% higher than the average Americans.

01:23:52.840 --> 01:24:03.680
 And their diets were tremendously different, mostly meat in the Eskimos in the cold environment

01:24:03.680 --> 01:24:12.200
 and mostly starchy foods in the tropics in a very hot environment.

01:24:12.200 --> 01:24:20.760
 But still, they were metabolizing, burning about 30% more oxygen than the average American.

01:24:20.760 --> 01:24:32.360
 And that he took to be an indication of a very generalized hypothyroidism.

01:24:32.360 --> 01:24:42.920
 He saw a correspondence of brain function to adrenal, liver and thyroid metabolism.

01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:48.800
 And he charted animals.

01:24:48.800 --> 01:24:57.480
 He showed that a crocodile at rest consumed, it could weigh several hundred pounds, but

01:24:57.480 --> 01:25:03.520
 it would consume only as much oxygen as a cat at rest.

01:25:03.520 --> 01:25:08.800
 And he showed that their brains were the same size.

01:25:08.800 --> 01:25:18.520
 And so he believed that the brain represented the basal metabolic rate and basically how

01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:22.760
 alive you were.

01:25:22.760 --> 01:25:23.960
 And when was G.W.

01:25:23.960 --> 01:25:26.920
 Kryol doing that work?

01:25:26.920 --> 01:25:27.920
 1930s.

01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:33.040
 1936 was one of his last books, I think.

01:25:33.040 --> 01:25:37.480
 So already our metabolic rate was lower than people in other parts of the world.

01:25:37.480 --> 01:25:41.520
 That's interesting.

01:25:41.520 --> 01:25:43.800
 Moving on to another question here.

01:25:43.800 --> 01:25:46.200
 It's very simple.

01:25:46.200 --> 01:25:53.200
 What is a healthy libido?

01:25:53.200 --> 01:26:01.200
 Something that I suppose is satisfying and fits in to the rest of your life.

01:26:01.200 --> 01:26:02.200
 All right.

01:26:02.200 --> 01:26:04.200
 That sounds good to me.

01:26:04.200 --> 01:26:06.480
 That was from Jacob.

01:26:06.480 --> 01:26:08.920
 And then moving on to Justin.

01:26:08.920 --> 01:26:15.720
 See, Justin says, I know several people with chronically low blood pressure, such as 85

01:26:15.720 --> 01:26:22.280
 to 100 over 60, doctors generally consider it not to be a problem.

01:26:22.280 --> 01:26:27.160
 Do you think this is indicative of any underlying physiological problem?

01:26:27.160 --> 01:26:35.520
 I also found it interesting everyone that I have met with this issue were women.

01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:46.440
 I think it does reflect a low metabolic rate, but it doesn't always mean that there's any

01:26:46.440 --> 01:26:55.920
 problem other than probably you could be more productive if you were producing more energy

01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:59.360
 and needed more blood circulation.

01:26:59.360 --> 01:27:06.480
 When I spent some time in Florida, I was miserable because of the high humidity and high temperature

01:27:06.480 --> 01:27:11.760
 and couldn't take my usual amount of thyroid.

01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:21.520
 And I found at times during the night when I wasn't taking thyroid and was being suffocated

01:27:21.520 --> 01:27:29.800
 by the humid heat, that my blood pressure would go down.

01:27:29.800 --> 01:27:36.240
 I think the lowest it went was almost what they would define as dead.

01:27:36.240 --> 01:27:42.120
 I think it was something like 50 over 25.

01:27:42.120 --> 01:27:43.840
 But I felt fine.

01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:46.080
 I see.

01:27:46.080 --> 01:27:51.000
 And why couldn't you take the thyroid because of the humidity and heat?

01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:57.280
 Because then I would feel like I was being boiled.

01:27:57.280 --> 01:27:59.080
 You get too hot, I see.

01:27:59.080 --> 01:28:00.080
 Yeah.

01:28:00.080 --> 01:28:04.240
 Just sitting at rest I would be sweating furiously.

01:28:04.240 --> 01:28:07.320
 I see.

01:28:07.320 --> 01:28:15.120
 Another person asked, "When did your digestive problems start in your life and was there

01:28:15.120 --> 01:28:16.680
 any cause for them?"

01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:20.280
 Yeah, I think when I was about six months old.

01:28:20.280 --> 01:28:22.880
 Oh, wow.

01:28:22.880 --> 01:28:24.960
 Do you attribute it to anything?

01:28:24.960 --> 01:28:31.520
 Yeah, I think probably my mother's hypothyroidism contributed.

01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:34.200
 Yeah.

01:28:34.200 --> 01:28:40.080
 And that consisted of just having stomach uncomfortability whenever you ate something

01:28:40.080 --> 01:28:41.200
 that didn't agree with you?

01:28:41.200 --> 01:28:43.200
 Is that basically it?

01:28:43.200 --> 01:28:50.280
 Yeah, periodic headache attacks starting at a very young age.

01:28:50.280 --> 01:28:58.320
 And the person also asked, "Why can some people eat things without any regard for what

01:28:58.320 --> 01:29:01.560
 they are and apparently not feel bad?

01:29:01.560 --> 01:29:05.480
 And other people have a horrible time and have to watch whatever they eat and can't

01:29:05.480 --> 01:29:09.080
 eat wheat, etc."

01:29:09.080 --> 01:29:18.600
 The whole history and balance of your different organs.

01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:28.320
 Some people have stronger body parts, different shapes, different lengths of intestine and

01:29:28.320 --> 01:29:31.320
 so on.

01:29:31.320 --> 01:29:36.040
 The whole balance influences each part.

01:29:36.040 --> 01:29:39.040
 I see.

01:29:39.040 --> 01:29:46.040
 What did I want to ask you next?

01:29:46.040 --> 01:29:47.040
 Oh, I know.

01:29:47.040 --> 01:29:48.040
 I have another question here.

01:29:48.040 --> 01:29:49.440
 You're starting to break up, so I can't quite hear you.

01:29:49.440 --> 01:29:50.440
 Am I?

01:29:50.440 --> 01:29:51.440
 Okay.

01:29:51.440 --> 01:29:52.440
 Can you hear me now?

01:29:52.440 --> 01:29:53.440
 Barely.

01:29:53.440 --> 01:29:54.440
 It's gurgly.

01:29:54.440 --> 01:29:55.440
 Okay.

01:29:55.440 --> 01:29:56.440
 I'm bad enough even when I'm not gurgly.

01:29:56.440 --> 01:29:57.440
 Maybe I should just call you right back, Ray.

01:29:57.440 --> 01:29:58.440
 Okay.

01:29:58.440 --> 01:30:01.440
 It's easy to do.

01:30:01.440 --> 01:30:04.440
 I'll be right back.

01:30:04.440 --> 01:30:05.440
 Hi, Ray.

01:30:05.440 --> 01:30:10.440
 I'm going to drop off this one call.

01:30:10.440 --> 01:30:11.440
 There.

01:30:11.440 --> 01:30:17.360
 Okay, we're talking to Dr. Raymond Peat out in Eugene, Oregon, and we're discussing science

01:30:17.360 --> 01:30:22.600
 history and medical history and health issues today.

01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:28.360
 And the rough theme of the show was indicators of health.

01:30:28.360 --> 01:30:29.640
 And Ray, can you hear me?

01:30:29.640 --> 01:30:30.640
 Yes.

01:30:30.640 --> 01:30:31.640
 Yeah, good.

01:30:31.640 --> 01:30:33.680
 I have another question from Robin.

01:30:33.680 --> 01:30:40.480
 Why are they testing for PSAs even though he has had his prostate removed?

01:30:40.480 --> 01:30:45.440
 I guess they're doing screening to see if he still has any cancer, but supposedly the

01:30:45.440 --> 01:30:50.520
 PSAs come from the prostate, so why are they testing if they've removed it?

01:30:50.520 --> 01:30:52.040
 Do you have any idea about that?

01:30:52.040 --> 01:30:59.080
 I think they believe that it indicates that you still have some parts of the prostate,

01:30:59.080 --> 01:31:06.800
 some prostate cells lodged in other parts of your body, but when you measure that antigen

01:31:06.800 --> 01:31:14.240
 in women, it doesn't mean that they have prostate cancer.

01:31:14.240 --> 01:31:24.160
 That antigen is found in women and it varies, it rises when their estrogen is high and maybe

01:31:24.160 --> 01:31:34.440
 it would have some correspondence to risk of breast cancer or something, but it doesn't

01:31:34.440 --> 01:31:39.720
 really mean as much as the medical people think.

01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:41.600
 And what is, do you know what PSA stands for?

01:31:41.600 --> 01:31:42.840
 I don't.

01:31:42.840 --> 01:31:48.920
 Prostate specific antigen, but they find the same antigen in women who don't have a prostate,

01:31:48.920 --> 01:31:51.880
 so it's not accurately named.

01:31:51.880 --> 01:31:52.880
 Yeah, I see.

01:31:52.880 --> 01:31:57.200
 And it's possible that perhaps it's made in other parts of the body?

01:31:57.200 --> 01:31:58.200
 Must be.

01:31:58.200 --> 01:31:59.200
 Oh, okay.

01:31:59.200 --> 01:32:00.200
 Yeah, interesting.

01:32:00.200 --> 01:32:08.120
 Okay, here's one that we can all relate to from Stephan.

01:32:08.120 --> 01:32:17.480
 Between acne and maybe acne in general, he says, he's tried vitamin A, topical, NutraSorb,

01:32:17.480 --> 01:32:19.800
 and supplemental extra zinc.

01:32:19.800 --> 01:32:21.680
 What are the causes of acne?

01:32:21.680 --> 01:32:23.640
 What about sugars, chocolate?

01:32:23.640 --> 01:32:26.760
 I've heard they don't, but is that true?

01:32:26.760 --> 01:32:28.960
 And what cures are likely?

01:32:28.960 --> 01:32:34.880
 And would topical progesterone help and is that okay in a young teen?

01:32:34.880 --> 01:32:39.080
 I've seen topical progesterone work almost instantly.

01:32:39.080 --> 01:32:47.360
 A pimple would be forming a red lump and would regress as soon as they put progesterone on

01:32:47.360 --> 01:32:48.360
 it.

01:32:48.360 --> 01:33:03.440
 But it usually involves a bacterial infection and the immune system is reacting badly, not

01:33:03.440 --> 01:33:08.360
 simply getting rid of the bacteria but producing an inflammation.

01:33:08.360 --> 01:33:17.360
 And so there are several things involved, but vitamin A and thyroid function are two

01:33:17.360 --> 01:33:26.840
 that are essential for the differentiation of the cells in the skin and the follicle

01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:34.000
 structure and oil glands and such and the thyroid, which regulates the hormones.

01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:43.120
 But the skin is a major source of steroid hormone synthesis and the thyroid and vitamin

01:33:43.120 --> 01:33:55.400
 A are partly acting to maintain a healthy steroid hormone turnover.

01:33:55.400 --> 01:34:06.680
 Cholesterol can be turned into the various steroids and the precursors like pregnenolone

01:34:06.680 --> 01:34:14.520
 and DHEA can be metabolized either well or badly depending on your whole nutritional

01:34:14.520 --> 01:34:16.320
 situation.

01:34:16.320 --> 01:34:21.560
 But thyroid and vitamin A are the most often involved.

01:34:21.560 --> 01:34:27.880
 The B vitamins, you have to make sure your whole system is well nourished.

01:34:27.880 --> 01:34:29.600
 I see.

01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:32.800
 So it could be from any number of causes.

01:34:32.800 --> 01:34:40.760
 Yeah, and it's always good to keep in mind the bacteria that like to live on oily, moist

01:34:40.760 --> 01:34:41.760
 skin.

01:34:41.760 --> 01:34:47.040
 And is your body trying to get rid of some pollutant or toxin?

01:34:47.040 --> 01:34:49.240
 Is that why it erupts like that?

01:34:49.240 --> 01:34:50.240
 No.

01:34:50.240 --> 01:34:51.240
 No.

01:34:51.240 --> 01:34:52.240
 Okay.

01:34:52.240 --> 01:34:53.240
 All right.

01:34:53.240 --> 01:34:59.000
 So we're running, we only got about 10 minutes left here, a little more than that.

01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:00.000
 Here's a question.

01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:06.560
 Let's see, I've read somewhere that people with Alzheimer's don't tend to get cancer

01:35:06.560 --> 01:35:13.480
 and I'd like to know specifically why Ray thinks that happens.

01:35:13.480 --> 01:35:17.400
 I don't know if it happens.

01:35:17.400 --> 01:35:19.160
 Okay.

01:35:19.160 --> 01:35:29.880
 Typically Alzheimer's I think is not consistently diagnosed.

01:35:29.880 --> 01:35:40.400
 Sometimes just people who get to be 90 or 95 aren't very attentive to current events

01:35:40.400 --> 01:35:51.760
 and get diagnosed with Alzheimer's when they might not have all of the diagnostic features

01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:57.280
 that a person who is 35 would have.

01:35:57.280 --> 01:36:07.920
 It was originally a disease called presenile dementia when a 40-year-old would start acting

01:36:07.920 --> 01:36:13.080
 absent-minded or mindless.

01:36:13.080 --> 01:36:15.720
 Yeah.

01:36:15.720 --> 01:36:17.640
 We have another caller on the line here.

01:36:17.640 --> 01:36:20.520
 Caller, you're on WMRW.

01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:21.520
 You're live.

01:36:21.520 --> 01:36:22.520
 Oh, great.

01:36:22.520 --> 01:36:23.520
 Thank you.

01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:30.760
 So first of all, I wanted to thank Dr. Peat for sharing all this extremely useful information.

01:36:30.760 --> 01:36:34.200
 I just had a couple of quick questions.

01:36:34.200 --> 01:36:37.200
 I had sent an email but I thought I'd quickly call him.

01:36:37.200 --> 01:36:46.640
 So my question is regarding metabolisms, stimulating foods, foods that heat up your body.

01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:55.320
 So what I have experienced is that eating a calorie-dense meal like a pancake seems

01:36:55.320 --> 01:37:03.440
 to warm me up more than drinking a lot of liquid like orange juice, which Dr. Peat recommends.

01:37:03.440 --> 01:37:11.320
 So I'm a bit confused why you do not consider starch to be superior to liquids in terms

01:37:11.320 --> 01:37:14.360
 of raising body heat.

01:37:14.360 --> 01:37:29.480
 Well, the starch, slightly more than sucrose, triggers insulin and the insulin tends to

01:37:29.480 --> 01:37:35.440
 lead to increased cortisol production.

01:37:35.440 --> 01:37:42.720
 Cortisol can raise your body temperature but that isn't the kind of increased metabolism

01:37:42.720 --> 01:37:45.240
 that is generally helpful.

01:37:45.240 --> 01:37:50.120
 But it can warm you up by a kind of stress reaction.

01:37:50.120 --> 01:38:03.440
 Some people wake up with a very warm body, 98.3 temperature possibly and an 80 pulse.

01:38:03.440 --> 01:38:10.200
 Then after they eat something in the middle of the day, their temperature might be under

01:38:10.200 --> 01:38:14.600
 98 and with a 70 pulse.

01:38:14.600 --> 01:38:24.760
 That means that their nighttime stress hormones, especially cortisol, were responsible for

01:38:24.760 --> 01:38:29.360
 keeping the metabolic rate and heat production up.

01:38:29.360 --> 01:38:37.840
 But that tends to lead to long-range problems where if you cycled your heat production down

01:38:37.840 --> 01:38:45.120
 during the night and up during the day, that would lead to longer range benefit.

01:38:45.120 --> 01:38:47.120
 Thank you.

01:38:47.120 --> 01:38:56.680
 One other quick question I had is a purely theoretical question.

01:38:56.680 --> 01:39:03.760
 In what age do you think a male can expect to maintain a healthy sex life without, let's

01:39:03.760 --> 01:39:08.320
 say, the use of Viagra or things like that?

01:39:08.320 --> 01:39:17.640
 I shouldn't have any particular age relation.

01:39:17.640 --> 01:39:31.080
 Testosterone and DHEA and thyroid and so on are all part of the good sexual energy and

01:39:31.080 --> 01:39:37.320
 there's no reason why those should drop off at any particular age.

01:39:37.320 --> 01:39:48.000
 Do you consider drugs like Viagra to be helpful or harmful?

01:39:48.000 --> 01:40:00.160
 Harmful because it acts largely by increasing nitric oxide and carbon monoxide and those

01:40:00.160 --> 01:40:02.960
 have lots of harmful effects.

01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:04.560
 Oh, interesting.

01:40:04.560 --> 01:40:05.560
 Okay.

01:40:05.560 --> 01:40:08.520
 Thank you so much, Dr. Peat.

01:40:08.520 --> 01:40:09.520
 Thanks for calling.

01:40:09.520 --> 01:40:21.680
 Ray, I had a question and I've been reading lately about the supposed problem of having

01:40:21.680 --> 01:40:24.040
 too much calcium in your diet.

01:40:24.040 --> 01:40:30.080
 I know that you've recommended supplementing calcium and it's been a big help in my life

01:40:30.080 --> 01:40:34.360
 in getting my teeth to stop degenerating.

01:40:34.360 --> 01:40:39.400
 But I was just reading an article that somebody posted about people who drink too much milk

01:40:39.400 --> 01:40:46.640
 and how that's going to cause a lot of calcification of tissues and other problems with calcium

01:40:46.640 --> 01:40:49.080
 building up in places it shouldn't.

01:40:49.080 --> 01:40:54.520
 I was just wondering if you could comment on how much calcium somebody should take and

01:40:54.520 --> 01:40:59.200
 whether those problems that those people are talking about are accurate.

01:40:59.200 --> 01:41:08.200
 No, that's the result of some medical people who had the mechanical way of thinking about

01:41:08.200 --> 01:41:10.200
 input and output.

01:41:10.200 --> 01:41:19.840
 But for at least 50 years, it's been known that parathyroid hormone increases when you're

01:41:19.840 --> 01:41:26.360
 deficient in calcium and vitamin D and possibly other factors.

01:41:26.360 --> 01:41:36.360
 But especially parathyroid hormone increases as your need for calcium increases.

01:41:36.360 --> 01:41:45.160
 And if you aren't eating enough calcium and vitamin D, your parathyroid hormone will take

01:41:45.160 --> 01:41:52.320
 calcium out of your bones and when it does that, it's putting it into your soft tissues

01:41:52.320 --> 01:42:01.680
 contributing to hardened arteries and kidneys and even the brain can calcify.

01:42:01.680 --> 01:42:10.440
 And the prevention is to get enough of the nutrients such as vitamin D and vitamin K

01:42:10.440 --> 01:42:20.480
 that regulate calcium, not get too much phosphate but to get plenty of calcium and keep your

01:42:20.480 --> 01:42:30.960
 parathyroid hormone and prolactin and cortisol down by a good intake of these protective

01:42:30.960 --> 01:42:33.680
 anti-stress nutrients.

01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:49.760
 And in fact, the surest way to calcify your arteries and kidneys is to be a calcium avoider.

01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:54.800
 Because that's what they recommend you do, right, if you end up with kidney stones.

01:42:54.800 --> 01:43:05.480
 Yeah, and for kidney stones in particular, a good balanced diet will make the urine not

01:43:05.480 --> 01:43:09.120
 release the calcium crystals.

01:43:09.120 --> 01:43:20.400
 Keeping the right pH of the urine and not having proteins leak out into the urine will

01:43:20.400 --> 01:43:26.120
 prevent the crystallization so you can pour out lots of calcium through your urine if

01:43:26.120 --> 01:43:34.560
 you're eating a lot of calcium but it doesn't calcify, it passes out in solution.

01:43:34.560 --> 01:43:42.640
 And when your vitamin D and vitamin K are adequate and your parathyroid hormone is low,

01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:46.640
 your arteries aren't going to take up calcium.

01:43:46.640 --> 01:43:57.000
 Yeah, it's a little alarming if what you say is accurate and it sounds good to me that

01:43:57.000 --> 01:44:00.120
 the mainstream medical world has it so backwards.

01:44:00.120 --> 01:44:06.280
 Well, yeah, there are several journals, you can find them, PubMed, several articles that

01:44:06.280 --> 01:44:13.480
 have demonstrated that eating plenty of calcium is protective.

01:44:13.480 --> 01:44:21.320
 And finally, we're almost done here but getting back to the loose theme of the show about

01:44:21.320 --> 01:44:29.040
 indicators of health, what does intention have to do with the testing for certain markers

01:44:29.040 --> 01:44:30.040
 of health?

01:44:30.040 --> 01:44:35.800
 Because it seems to me that many times the tests these days have gotten away from being

01:44:35.800 --> 01:44:42.440
 about the health of the patient and they seem to be more of an abstract nature in terms

01:44:42.440 --> 01:44:49.560
 of, or maybe not even abstract, maybe more in terms of just economics where the intention

01:44:49.560 --> 01:44:57.800
 of testing the patient is about using the test equipment, paying for new scanning equipment

01:44:57.800 --> 01:44:58.800
 and the like.

01:44:58.800 --> 01:45:04.320
 It just seems like the medical industry has gotten away from treating the patient to running

01:45:04.320 --> 01:45:05.320
 a business.

01:45:05.320 --> 01:45:11.080
 Yeah, I think with x-rays that's often the case.

01:45:11.080 --> 01:45:18.320
 They have to keep their equipment busy if it isn't paid for.

01:45:18.320 --> 01:45:28.000
 They want to keep an income so they can get a new machine when this one's paid off.

01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:37.320
 A lot of the testing is done to prevent lawsuits.

01:45:37.320 --> 01:45:44.560
 Someone yesterday said she asked her doctor what he would do if they were his symptoms.

01:45:44.560 --> 01:45:47.720
 Would he have the x-rays or the CAT scan?

01:45:47.720 --> 01:45:53.580
 He said, "No, but I wouldn't sue myself."

01:45:53.580 --> 01:46:01.000
 So finally she got him to agree that she didn't need the CAT scan or x-ray.

01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:07.400
 Yeah, so you can talk to your doctor about unnecessary testing.

01:46:07.400 --> 01:46:10.200
 There's a question that just came in by email.

01:46:10.200 --> 01:46:14.320
 Are there dangers to antibiotics and how they modify gut flora?

01:46:14.320 --> 01:46:21.160
 Is it best to seek maximum sterility for the gut or may it be better to attempt to cultivate

01:46:21.160 --> 01:46:23.640
 an overall balance of gut flora?

01:46:23.640 --> 01:46:28.080
 What are some of the best factors for cleaning the gut?

01:46:28.080 --> 01:46:38.020
 I think the best, safest, long-range things are the indigestible, but antiseptic fibers

01:46:38.020 --> 01:46:43.040
 of raw carrot or bamboo shoots.

01:46:43.040 --> 01:46:52.160
 Carrot bamboo shoots happen to be not in themselves digestible, but to contain antibiotic substances

01:46:52.160 --> 01:46:56.800
 that help to suppress bacteria.

01:46:56.800 --> 01:47:02.920
 The whole small intestine in a very healthy person is sterile.

01:47:02.920 --> 01:47:11.840
 The more active your digestive fluids and enzymes are, the more sterile your small intestine

01:47:11.840 --> 01:47:13.240
 will be.

01:47:13.240 --> 01:47:19.320
 The more sluggish your metabolism, low thyroid function, the more likely you are to have

01:47:19.320 --> 01:47:27.000
 bacteria living far up towards your stomach in the small intestine.

01:47:27.000 --> 01:47:37.840
 And so stimulating the intestine with something like raw carrot or bamboo shoots helps, but

01:47:37.840 --> 01:47:44.040
 keeping your metabolic rate up is the basic thing so that your digestive fluids are killing

01:47:44.040 --> 01:47:47.800
 off or preventing the growth of the bacteria.

01:47:47.800 --> 01:47:50.000
 All right.

01:47:50.000 --> 01:47:56.720
 Well there's plenty more questions to ask, but we'll have to save it for another time.

01:47:56.720 --> 01:48:03.920
 Ray, thanks so much for being on Politics and Science again and being so patient and

01:48:03.920 --> 01:48:10.000
 for supporting community radio here in central Vermont all the way from Eugene, Oregon.

01:48:10.000 --> 01:48:11.000
 Okay.

01:48:11.000 --> 01:48:12.000
 Thank you.

01:48:12.000 --> 01:48:13.000
 All right.

01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:14.000
 Thanks, Ray.

01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:15.000
 Good night.

01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:18.040
 Good night.

01:48:18.040 --> 01:48:26.760
 And that is Dr. Raymond Peat, physiologist, PhD in biology, science historian.

01:48:26.760 --> 01:48:31.800
 You can find out a lot more about him by going to his website, raypeat.com.

01:48:31.800 --> 01:48:40.320
 That's R-A-Y-P-E-A-T dot com, and you'll find many of his newsletters there ready to read

01:48:40.320 --> 01:48:42.440
 and all for free.

01:48:42.440 --> 01:48:44.400
 So thanks again for listening.

01:48:44.400 --> 01:48:46.800
 Thanks for supporting WMRW.

01:48:46.800 --> 01:48:52.200
 I'm very grateful for all the support you've shown for this show and for having Ray Peat

01:48:52.200 --> 01:48:59.640
 and other scientists like him on the air broadcasting through 2013.

01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:04.400
 And also thanks to everybody who participated in the show for sending in their questions

01:49:04.400 --> 01:49:05.880
 and for calling in.

01:49:05.880 --> 01:49:09.360
 This is John Barkhausen signing off for Politics and Science.

01:49:09.360 --> 01:49:19.360
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