WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.600 Hey and welcome to Politics and Science. I'm your host John Barkhausen. This week we return 00:00:05.600 --> 00:00:13.920 to part two of our conversation with Ray Peat. This was recorded on the 24th of March, 2020, 00:00:13.920 --> 00:00:21.680 and we are discussing the coronavirus, COVID-19, which has caused a lockdown in the United 00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:30.640 States in many, many areas due to its expected high contagion rate and potentially very serious 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:37.120 mortality rate. So I hope you find this show informative. It's not intended as medical advice. 00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:44.400 It's just an independent analysis of what's going on. Ray Peat has a PhD in biology from 00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:50.400 the University of Oregon. He specialized in physiology and hormones. His newsletter is 00:00:50.400 --> 00:00:58.960 also available at raypeat.com. You can read many of the archive newsletters, and I believe you can 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:05.840 also subscribe to get on his mailing list for new newsletters which come out every other month. 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:12.560 And now here's the show. Thanks for coming back on Politics and Science today, Ray. I'm 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:20.640 always a pleasure to talk to you. And we're in the midst of this coronavirus, so-called pandemic, 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:25.360 that's been declared by the World Health Organization and the CDC, 00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:30.720 and everybody is having a hard time and is very scared about what's going on. 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:39.120 There's, I just listened to a podcast today with a New York Times reporter talking to an 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:45.040 epidemiologist saying that it's going to be very bad and we're not taking enough 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:51.840 across-the-board measures. It's too piecemeal that the states are doing it individually, 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:58.160 and there needs to be some strong federal action to make sure everybody's staying home 00:01:58.160 --> 00:02:03.600 and behaving themselves and not getting close enough to transmit the coronavirus. 00:02:05.440 --> 00:02:13.040 I wonder what your take is on that. I still am not convinced that anything special is happening. 00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:23.600 Did we talk about the German virologist Wolfgang Vodarg? No, we didn't yet. 00:02:24.880 --> 00:02:36.880 Well, he is one well-known expert in pulmonology and viruses. And as of the last time 00:02:36.880 --> 00:02:45.680 I checked on his website, he still wasn't convinced that anything different from previous 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:55.680 years is happening. He showed that in previous years, from 5 to 15% of the lung disease, 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:09.440 infectious disease, was caused by some type of coronavirus. And so far, this one hasn't really 00:03:09.440 --> 00:03:20.960 been proven to either be much more virulent or much more infectious. But that is yet to be 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:30.240 determined. But they've jumped to the conclusion that it is both more harmful and spreads faster. 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:40.960 But you can't find that in the evidence, according to Vodarg. And another German well-known 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:53.520 pulmonologist and virologist named Bhakti, sounds like a Hindu name, B-H-T-I, I think it is, 00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:07.120 says similar things. He says that the country is causing very considerable damage economically and 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:18.400 harming especially older people by the measures they're introducing, without any real evidence 00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:28.400 that anything special is happening. And another well-known, mostly epidemiologist, 00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:41.200 John Ioannidis, has various positions at Stanford. He says this might be one of history's greatest 00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:51.200 evidence fiascos, because they're talking about just fragments of evidence and drawing 00:04:51.200 --> 00:05:02.480 huge conclusions and then taking unprecedented political, economic actions against 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:11.600 no clear scientific evidence. Could you spell the German epidemiologist and the pulmonologist 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:15.360 that you've mentioned at the beginning, just so people can look up their evidence? 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:29.360 Yeah, the first one was Wolfgang Vodarg, last name W-O-D-A-R-G. And I think the second guy's 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:39.200 name, last name is spelled B-A-K-H-T-I. And then you said the guy at Stanford, John Ioannidis. 00:05:39.760 --> 00:05:46.000 I-O-A-N-N-I-D-I-S. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:52.960 Okay, great. Yeah, and they're saying that, you know, the Trump administration isn't doing enough. 00:05:52.960 --> 00:06:05.360 Yeah, I've always been considered crazy for pointing out that Trump in many ways has been 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:15.920 less harmful than the so-called progressives like Obama, that he tends to be withdrawing from wars, 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:26.960 for example. And I think I'm inclined to see his reluctance to go ahead with a war on the virus 00:06:26.960 --> 00:06:36.240 as another virtue, even though everyone considers that crazy. The Pentagon wanted to 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:44.800 go back into Iraq heavily in retaliation against a couple of soldiers getting killed, 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:52.560 and to use the virus as an excuse, an argument against renewing the war in Iraq. 00:06:54.320 --> 00:07:04.640 So even though he's been being criticized again for everything he does against the grain, 00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:10.000 so far I think he's justified by the evidence. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:16.880 Yeah, and in these cases, it's too bad he doesn't do himself any favors in his social behavior. 00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:27.040 Yeah, it's too bad he doesn't have a pleasant personality to do some reasonable things. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:34.640 Yeah, and he has sort of the personality of a gangster, and at least he sounds like one to me. 00:07:34.640 --> 00:07:40.400 But I think you're right, he has an isolationist tendency when it comes to wars, 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:48.640 and I'm all for that myself. Yeah, and he proposes to stop the 00:07:48.640 --> 00:07:56.960 clampdown on society by Easter, which he's being criticized for again, that the 00:07:56.960 --> 00:08:04.400 so-called health experts are saying that's foolish and dangerous to consider 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:11.520 restoring freedom in just two weeks. Yeah, I mean, I can understand why people 00:08:11.520 --> 00:08:17.040 are scared. If you listen to any news at all, it's just one dire warning after the next. 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:22.240 What do you make of the reports from Italy where people over 65 aren't being allowed to have a 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:28.720 ventilator, and so people are doing triage, and some people are being basically told they'll have 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:41.760 to die? I saw a little video from a hospital in Bergamo, and it looked like they were stuffing 00:08:41.760 --> 00:08:53.440 people in oxygen tents and putting oxygen masks on them. And if people come in with a minor 00:08:53.440 --> 00:09:02.880 respiratory ailment and they're 70 or 80 or 90 years old, and they get put into a pure oxygen 00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:10.400 atmosphere, that's exactly the wrong thing to do, but it's what almost all the hospitals in the 00:09:10.400 --> 00:09:17.280 world are doing, thinking they need oxygen. They're having trouble breathing, so give them 00:09:17.280 --> 00:09:25.760 fewer oxygen, but carbon dioxide is anti-inflammatory, and when you give them fewer 00:09:25.760 --> 00:09:34.480 oxygen, five times more than normal, you're tremendously displacing the natural balance of 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:45.440 carbon dioxide, which is the anti-inflammatory stuff in our breath. Several good research projects 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:54.880 have found that if you hypoventilate people who are having some problem in the hospital, like 00:09:54.880 --> 00:10:04.720 surgery, slight hypoventilation to let the CO2 build up reduces inflammation and produces much 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:14.640 better outcomes overall, because inflammation is such a pathogen in any kind of sickness, 00:10:14.640 --> 00:10:26.240 and especially in this particular virus infection or any lung infection, the symptoms 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:39.840 are basically inflammatory. The angiotensin system, the interferon system, which turns on 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:51.280 other inflammatory agents, histamine, all of the defensive reactions triggered by these 00:10:51.280 --> 00:10:58.880 respiratory infections amplify inflammation, and that causes the congestion, constriction, 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:13.040 swelling, exudation of serum into the lungs. Instead of a balanced moisture economy in the 00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:23.280 lungs, the serum and proteins in the blood ooze out into the lung space and interfere with 00:11:23.280 --> 00:11:29.760 breathing, but anything you do to increase inflammation is going to increase that 00:11:29.760 --> 00:11:37.840 pneumonia tendency and general sickness. So oxygen and many of the 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:45.760 virus-cycle chemicals they're giving greatly intensify inflammation. 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:53.520 That's one of the reasons old people are so susceptible, where 00:11:53.520 --> 00:12:06.160 about, different studies say about 85% of the proven infected people have almost no symptoms 00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:17.680 of infection, and the main ones who react badly and get very sick or die are mostly the very old 00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:31.360 people who already have some kind of degenerative circulatory or inflammatory kind of disease, 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:46.080 heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, and so on. The changes of aging that cause the circulatory 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:53.920 problems are essentially overactivity of the immune system, sort of a variation on the autoimmune 00:12:53.920 --> 00:13:02.960 thing, but it's a general tissue degenerative process that exaggerates the inflammatory 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:12.240 processes. And in one study where they gave a given type of coronavirus known, they were 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:21.840 intending to produce common cold symptoms, and they put this stuff in the volunteers' noses, 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:34.000 and they found that the people with pre-existing inflammatory problems were the ones that reacted 00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:45.440 more seriously to the virus. And mice, studies in mice, they find that the given virus 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:54.240 does very little damage to the young animals. The older the animal is, the more mature the immune 00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:05.840 system, the more harmful the virus is. So in this situation, the so-called immune defenses are 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:14.720 really the instrument by which the virus is damaging the organism. So it's the reaction of 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:26.480 the organism to the virus. Yeah. Yeah. The successful virus, which these are, succeeds by, 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:38.720 if possible, causing something like chronic diarrhea and a chronic cough. If the person 00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:49.840 stays well enough to go around living normally but coughing, that's good for the virus to spread. 00:14:49.840 --> 00:15:04.640 So a successful virus doesn't kill many of its infected hosts. It causes them to spread the 00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:10.240 virus rather than die. Yeah, I was going to ask you that. It would make sense for the longevity 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:21.200 of the virus not to kill its host. Yeah. Yeah. And diarrhea and coughing and spitting are typical 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:28.960 ways a virus will spread. So if you're already inflamed and the virus comes along and attacks 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:36.080 you, attacks your cells, then you're much more likely to have an overreaction, an overimmune 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:41.040 reaction. Yeah. Because that reminds me of, you know, socially or politically what we're doing 00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:47.440 right now. If what you're saying is correct, then we're having an overreaction to the threat of this 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:54.240 virus, which could potentially cause a lot of damage to our society. Yeah, it already is 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:05.360 causing unemployment and it's being taken as an opportunity. Bernanke and Yellen 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:15.920 proposed that the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department join up so that the taxpayers will be 00:16:15.920 --> 00:16:25.840 made responsible for everything the Fed does and that they will then bail out big corporations 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:37.600 at their choice. But what it leads to is super corporations guaranteed by the government and 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:47.920 the taxpayers, but no guarantees to the employees of middle-sized and small companies. So it's like 00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:57.920 pushing towards total monopoly and all of the proposals that I've seen lead in that direction, 00:16:57.920 --> 00:17:06.960 giving money to bail out the big banks and corporations, which is like a war against 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:13.280 small business. Yeah, that's right. And, you know, Naomi Klein has written about this extensively in 00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:18.880 her book, Disaster Capitalism, where she cites a lot of examples of this in the past. 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:27.360 And this seems like a combination of disaster capitalism/fascism, because I think the 00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:36.320 definition of fascism is a combination of corporate and federal power. Yeah, exactly. Except that 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:49.280 as it's going, it bypasses some of the nastiness of Hitlerism and Mussolini's fascism, 00:17:49.280 --> 00:18:04.960 and goes right directly to giving orders around the world to stop protests, interfere with elections, 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:13.200 and so on. Like the yellow vests in France aren't able to go into the streets as they've been doing 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:21.440 for a year. So they are allowed to put their vests out on the balcony or in their windows 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:30.640 as protests. But basically, it's already established total quiescence and control. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:35.680 Yeah, and it's very effective if you make everybody very afraid. Then it's not just 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:40.160 government force like Hitler was trying to use or Mussolini. It's peer pressure. 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:47.200 Yeah, much, much smoother and more effective. We start policing ourselves. Yeah. 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:55.440 Yeah. So, and I feel like a lot of this is pushing towards, you know, once they have everybody 00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:02.320 scared. And I see a lot of talk on social media about, if only we had a vaccine that would save us 00:19:02.320 --> 00:19:08.560 from this coronavirus. And I was wondering if you could speak about the efficacy of vaccines in terms 00:19:08.560 --> 00:19:21.200 of flus and this virus. In the great swine flu pandemic that didn't exist, the man in charge of 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:33.120 influenza vaccines at the center, I guess, was the CDC at that time. He was a supervisor of that 00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:41.920 department, not all vaccines, but especially the flu vaccines. He pointed out to his superiors 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:54.000 repeatedly over, I guess, several months that the time it takes to develop any of these flu vaccines 00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:05.760 is usually a year to a year and a half. And by that time, the flu germ has spread, 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:14.400 reached its peak and disappeared. People are naturally immune to that particular strain by 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:24.080 the time the vaccine comes on the market. And he lost his job for going on television, 00:20:24.080 --> 00:20:27.840 talking on 60 Minutes, I think it was. 00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:31.440 Oh, Phil Donahue, I think it was. 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:38.400 Yeah, Phil Donahue. Yeah, that got him fired. And then later, 60 Minutes did a detailed analysis of 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:50.880 the failure of the epidemic. One death, one soldier was confirmed to have died of the flu virus, 00:20:50.880 --> 00:21:00.800 no one else in the world, by the admission of the head of the CDC. But hundreds died from the vaccine. 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:10.640 And so now when someone says that vaccines are confirmed not only to be useless, but to be 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:18.080 dangerous, and in many cases worse than the disease that they can't conceivably 00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:29.520 be produced in time to prevent, those people are now being called quacks. 00:21:29.520 --> 00:21:34.160 Yeah. Now, in the history of vaccines, there have been useful ones, right, in the past. 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:42.320 Yeah, when it's an organism that doesn't change faster than the vaccine can be produced. 00:21:42.320 --> 00:21:52.000 A smallpox was probably the best example of a vaccine being able to totally 00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:00.960 abolish a disease when it's used intelligently. They would identify where the outbreaks were, 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:13.280 and then form a ring of vaccinated people around those outbreaks and let the disease run its course 00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:25.360 inside that ring. And repeatedly doing that, they closed in and eradicated the vaccine from nature. 00:22:25.360 --> 00:22:31.280 Because that particular disease, was that a virus, smallpox? 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:31.520 Yeah. 00:22:31.520 --> 00:22:36.400 So it just didn't mutate quickly so they could get a handle on it. 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:48.400 Yeah. And I think other diseases are probably slow enough to change that they could be treated 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:56.720 similarly. If the effort were made, they could close in on them and eliminate them 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:04.320 for a relatively small price. The cost for eliminating smallpox on the world scale 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:15.440 was microscopic compared to the annual expense on measles and the standard 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:23.920 array of vaccines that kids are getting in the United States and most other countries. 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:34.960 The cost alone is enough to lead to a more intelligent policy. 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:44.800 Yeah, I think you said the cost now is $50 billion, $4.5 billion a year, 00:23:44.800 --> 00:23:47.200 just for vaccines for children. 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.320 Yeah. 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:59.040 Yeah, that's stupendous. And maybe not that effective. How do you rate their efficacy? 00:23:59.040 --> 00:24:08.880 Since they're stupidly used, trying to vaccinate the whole world rather than closing in on the 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:19.840 virus. When you have an outbreak at Disney World, for example, you can track those people 00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:30.560 and vaccinate everyone around them. And a thousand people for every one vaccinated 00:24:30.560 --> 00:24:38.240 will have avoided the vaccine. And the vaccines have a consistent and predictable 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:50.640 rate of damage and harm, mortality, paralysis, brain damage. Autism is one of the outcomes. 00:24:51.760 --> 00:25:02.880 But no one really denies the government pays at least a proportion of the people they harm. 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:10.800 They acknowledge that they're doing harm. But instead of intelligently reducing the number 00:25:10.800 --> 00:25:21.440 of people given the vaccine, they prefer to pay for a stupid use of vaccines that 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:22.880 otherwise could be effective. 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:31.760 Yeah, and that makes sense to me. And the testing is of questionable merit. 00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:44.560 The safety testing is absolutely crooked. Some of the vaccines with the known harmful 00:25:44.560 --> 00:25:57.040 adjuvants, aluminum hydroxide is added because it causes a systemic inflammatory reaction. 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:03.840 And so that's the most harmful, more harmful than the germ itself. 00:26:03.840 --> 00:26:12.480 But when they're testing the safety of a vaccine, you would expect that they would test 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:19.440 the safety of the combination of aluminum hydroxide and the other junk that goes along 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:31.920 with the actual antigen. But in some of the studies, they gave the adjuvant to the control 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:39.680 group as well as the test group. So they're creating a certain level of damage in their 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:47.600 control group and comparing that to the damage in the complete virus, complete vaccine. 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:56.640 It basically is, I can't think of any way that a person could design that experiment 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.480 without intending to defraud. 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:10.000 Yeah. And just so people know, the adjuvant is the addition to the wounded or weakened 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.080 vaccine or the weakened virus. 00:27:15.600 --> 00:27:23.280 After using aluminum hydroxide to produce that general inflammatory reaction that revs 00:27:23.280 --> 00:27:32.800 up your ability to produce antibodies, after using that for generations, it's gradually 00:27:32.800 --> 00:27:39.680 becoming recognized by the people suing the government for brain damage and death and 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:48.640 so on, that it is developing a bad reputation. So they're looking for new adjuvants, things 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:55.840 that will do just as much inflammatory damage, but that doesn't, things that don't yet 00:27:55.840 --> 00:27:59.760 have the bad reputation that aluminum hydroxide does. 00:28:00.560 --> 00:28:11.520 But the same thing will occur with these lipid-based, nanoparticles of lipids used as 00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:20.560 antigens. After another 50 years, those will develop a bad reputation. 00:28:20.560 --> 00:28:26.240 You mean you can't actually stimulate an inflammatory reaction without damaging the 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:26.800 organism? 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:39.040 Yeah, that's probably a major, if not the only, motor of the aging process, is the 00:28:39.040 --> 00:28:47.200 accumulated damage done by interacting with irritating, stressful parts of the 00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:58.000 environment. Your body changes with every encounter, and the more of an adjuvant 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:04.400 function that the environment imposes on your body, the bigger reaction it forces you 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:14.160 to make, the greater the change in your life course is. We're in a constantly revising 00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:29.440 process as we develop and age, and these systemic reactions for every encounter, foods 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:40.480 we eat and digest and assimilate properly, even those are adding to our immunological 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:50.880 burden, so that to deliberately increase the activity of the immune system is to 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:57.040 deliberately accelerate the process of aging and degenerating. 00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:03.440 I see. So in the history of vaccines, when you go way back to, in your recent 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:10.400 newsletter, which is available at raypeat.com, you mentioned a fellow named 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.880 Johnny, John Williamson, called Johnny Notions. And so how did his vaccines work if 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.800 they didn't have this adjuvant? 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:26.320 The smallpox vaccine all by itself is irritating enough. It doesn't need an adjuvant, 00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:36.240 and he weakened his, just by reasoning, he reasoned that if he could weaken a deadly 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:43.360 something, they didn't know what, any idea of what viruses were at that time, but if 00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:55.120 he could weaken this nasty material, he put it in smoke. He would take a pus or a scab 00:30:55.760 --> 00:31:06.960 from a person with smallpox and smoke it for a while, and then pack it under, I 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:15.040 forget what kind of leaves he covered it with, and a layer of camphor, and then 00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:24.240 buried it for years, letting chemical processes happen. This was in the 1700s, 00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:32.240 so almost nothing was known about how chemistry works. But he intuited that he 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:38.000 was doing something to weaken and change the agent. And then he would introduce it 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:46.240 into the skin, not into the muscle or under the skin, but he had a very fine tool he 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:54.720 made that would split the skin so it went into the living material but didn't reach the 00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:04.800 blood. And all of his people were made immune. He vaccinated thousands. None of 00:32:04.800 --> 00:32:09.360 them died from the vaccine as they would have from a modern vaccine. 00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:15.040 Yeah, and that sounds a lot more gentle in that it's not being, what's the 00:32:15.040 --> 00:32:21.520 difference between a dermal application like that, a skin application, and having 00:32:21.520 --> 00:32:23.360 something injected into your bloodstream? 00:32:23.360 --> 00:32:33.680 Yeah, in the last 10 years or so, a few alternative doctors were practicing it 30 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:41.040 or 40 years ago, rubbing it into the skin gently rather than injecting it. But 00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:48.560 experiments now in the last 10 years show that when you take a particular antigen and 00:32:48.560 --> 00:32:58.160 either take it by inhalation or ingestion or rubbing it into the skin or injecting it 00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:05.680 carefully intradermally, that the systemic results are absolutely different from when you 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:13.680 inject it into the blood or into the muscle or even under the skin. The immune system is 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:24.480 designed to react in a maximally appropriate way when things get rubbed into the skin or 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:34.400 inhaled or eaten. And when you bypass those normal routes of infection, we don't have an 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:43.600 evolved immune system for proper reactions to needle injections into the muscles. The 00:33:43.600 --> 00:33:50.480 whole thing about using needles seems to have been a matter of professionalism. 00:33:50.480 --> 00:34:02.160 In the 1800s, doctors were the only ones who could have access to needles and syringes. 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:09.120 They were technologically beyond the public. And so they 00:34:09.120 --> 00:34:24.080 created or claimed to have a monopoly on what they said was the most effective way for giving 00:34:24.080 --> 00:34:34.720 medication instead of the crude, old-fashioned way of having people eat or inhale the medicine 00:34:34.720 --> 00:34:42.880 they would give it by needle into your muscle or directly into your bloodstream. There never was 00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:50.400 any valid scientific basis for giving medications by injection. 00:34:52.080 --> 00:34:57.440 And so you said it's radically different if you take it through a more natural way, 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:03.360 where you do have actually a defense. Can you still get the same vaccine reaction adequately 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:13.040 enough? The reaction is more organized. What they get from the injected reaction is 00:35:15.200 --> 00:35:22.160 largely a reaction to the tissue damage, leading to autoimmune-type reactions, 00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:31.520 more reactions against your tissues than against the antigen. But in the process, the antigen can 00:35:31.520 --> 00:35:40.400 be taken down by these specific antibodies. But that whole antibody theory of immunity 00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:50.240 is essentially a superstructure built on ignorance of how the immune system works. 00:35:50.240 --> 00:36:00.400 The antibody theory came about more than 100 years ago with the lock and key idea of Paul Ehrlich, 00:36:01.040 --> 00:36:12.320 which was a way to sell chemical drugs by arguing that he would have a specific chemical for the 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:24.400 specific lock. The chemical key was so specific that a particular drug would cure it, and the 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:40.080 antibody became the model for the equivalent of a specific drug cure. And the antibody-based 00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:50.000 theory has been given a series of Nobel Prizes at the end of the last century. 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:58.960 But since then, most of the knowledge of the real immune system, the innate immune system, 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:11.440 is intricable. They used to say that only the antibody system was a real adaptive process, but 00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:19.840 they simply weren't looking at the adaptive processes on the other tissue levels. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:28.880 Hmm. So, since the flus and viruses adapt too quickly for vaccines to be useful against them, 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.800 it sounds like we really should depend on the innate immune system. 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:35.600 How do we get the innate immune system to work for us? 00:37:35.600 --> 00:37:45.120 Making people healthy, exposing them to fewer vaccines as they grow up is, I think, 00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:55.360 a very important part of it. Allergies, allergic people are known to be the ones who react the 00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:08.720 worst to the coronaviruses. And the changes, the degenerative or autoimmune changes that happen 00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:18.080 with aging make a person more susceptible to harm from the otherwise mild coronaviruses. 00:38:18.080 --> 00:38:29.280 But just being allergic or already having an activated interferon system 00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:42.240 makes you more susceptible. So, the person who can have an abundant energetic metabolism, but 00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:55.920 without a lot of inflammatory experiences, can produce the most organized and almost unnoticed 00:38:58.560 --> 00:39:06.400 rejection of the infection. The 80% of the people who don't know that they're 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:15.120 infected with this particular coronavirus, they are the ones with a good immune system. 00:39:15.120 --> 00:39:16.800 They don't react noticeably. 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:23.920 And at the beginning, you spoke of, let's see if I can find that. Oh, yeah. You said 00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:32.000 a lung infection is inflammatory and it's triggering the angiotensin, 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:39.840 interferon, and histamine reactions. And you covered some of the angiotensin problem last week, 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:44.240 although I have some more questions. But you haven't mentioned anything about how the interferon 00:39:44.240 --> 00:39:48.640 and histamine systems would react with the coronavirus. 00:39:50.240 --> 00:39:57.840 One of the main things that the interferon system does is to activate the production of nitric 00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:08.400 oxide, which in vitro is a very good virus killer. It's a free radical that will destroy just about 00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:21.680 anything. But in vivo, there have been comparisons with the coronavirus. Nerve infection is a major 00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:32.080 target of some coronaviruses and other respiratory viruses as an alternate target causing encephalitis. 00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:45.920 And in experimental infections with nerve-targeted coronaviruses, they find that 00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:56.560 blocking interferon's production of nitric oxide prevents death of the animal. And it's 00:40:56.560 --> 00:41:04.960 specifically the interferon production of nitric oxide that's killing them. And I think analogous 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:12.480 things are probably happening. It does kill the virus, but it also helps kill the host. 00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:26.320 And same with serotonin. Serotonin is produced by any inflammation and blocking the effects of 00:41:26.560 --> 00:41:36.720 serotonin. For example, the Chinese are using cinanserin, a serotonin blocker, as one of their 00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:41.760 tools against the coronavirus. Can you spell that again, Ray? 00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:54.080 C-I-N-A-N-S-E-R-I-N. Okay, great. And so that's actually cutting down. So serotonin is an 00:41:54.080 --> 00:42:01.280 inflammatory chemical that we make when we're under stress? Yeah. Serotonin is talking about 00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:07.040 the veins tightening up and so does angiotensin is the same thing. What's the purpose of those 00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:20.480 in a healthy creature? The tightening of some of the circulatory system helps to raise the pressure 00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:33.200 and get more blood to an area of where the problem is. So it's just one of many emergency functions. 00:42:33.200 --> 00:42:45.360 And in general, I think it's appropriate to think of these inflammatory things as wound healing 00:42:46.240 --> 00:42:52.320 agents. If you have a hole punched in you, these are very appropriate for 00:42:52.320 --> 00:43:01.760 making the organism direct its healing efforts to the place where the wound is and accelerating 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:13.760 the cell growth and attracting cells to the area to repair it. But when you have them spreading out 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:23.920 from your lungs, for example, into the whole organism, the whole organism is suffering because 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:34.000 that particular type of repair system can be so damaging when it takes place in the lungs. 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:40.160 Yeah, so it's an ecology and it's only supposed to be present for a short time while it's 00:43:40.160 --> 00:43:48.000 doing its emergency work. Yeah, I kind of understand that. And histamine, how does that fit in? 00:43:48.000 --> 00:44:02.080 It tends to be any injury causes it to be released. And the experiments with coronavirus 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:12.320 show that it sensitizes the tissues to histamine. So any injury that's releasing histamine 00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:24.320 becomes more harmful in the presence of the virus. And estrogen is something in the background 00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:34.880 of all of these. And angiotensin increases, activates aromatase to make estrogen. So estrogen 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:43.440 is coming up in the background of any of these injuries and stress. And estrogen increases 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:52.560 production, attracts mast cells that make histamine, and activates its release. And that 00:44:52.560 --> 00:45:00.400 intensifies the oxidation of fluid into the lungs, for example. And one question I had from last week 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:06.800 before we get into these other questions, a few from listeners, is that you said that 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:15.760 in the angiotensin cycle, why don't you describe briefly the cycle again of how angiotensin is 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:23.520 made and then how its inflammatory syndrome is stopped? Well, first, the renin enzyme 00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:32.880 is one of the starting things. And angiotensinogen, stress and things like estrogen 00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:41.520 make the liver produce more angiotensinogen, which is a protein cleaved by renin, the enzyme 00:45:42.560 --> 00:45:51.760 largely from the kidney. And the product of this is called angiotensin 1. And then an enzyme, ACE, 00:45:51.760 --> 00:46:03.040 angiotensin converting enzyme number one, produces angiotensin 2, 00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:13.600 acting on the product of the renin. And angiotensin 2 is the one we commonly think of as 00:46:13.600 --> 00:46:21.520 angiotensin, which leads to all of these inflammatory things. And the enzyme, ACE 2, 00:46:21.520 --> 00:46:33.120 is it, I think its main function is to destroy angiotensin or angiotensin 2. I see. So, 00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:45.440 ACE 1 produces the big inflammation promoter, ACE 2 destroys it. Yeah. And so, coronavirus 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:55.120 attaches to and inactivates ACE 2, leaving ACE 1 producing angiotensin and its inflammation. 00:46:55.120 --> 00:47:01.680 Oh, I understand. Because you said, ACE 2 is a sign of a youthful person. If you have a lot of 00:47:01.680 --> 00:47:06.560 that in your system, it means you're keeping that stress hormone or stress. Is it a hormone, 00:47:06.560 --> 00:47:16.400 angiotensin? You could call it that. It's a peptide. It signals something. Yeah. Yeah. 00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:22.160 Okay. So, if you have a lot of ACE 2, that's a sign of youth. 00:47:24.560 --> 00:47:34.560 But the coronavirus is able to attack that. Yeah. ACE 2. I see. Yeah. They now know in detail 00:47:34.560 --> 00:47:44.320 how it attaches and changes that protein. So, in my mind, that begs the question of how 00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:49.840 come young people are not affected by the coronavirus since they have more ACE 2? 00:47:50.800 --> 00:48:02.080 Yeah. If you have enough of it, it outweighs whatever the virus does. A healthy young person 00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:08.160 can sacrifice some of their ACE 2 to the virus without succumbing to the symptoms. 00:48:08.160 --> 00:48:16.160 I see. So, they can show the infection, but they still have the anti-inflammatory ACE 2 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:28.080 in reserve because all of the components of good health, it seems, vitamin B1, progesterone, 00:48:28.080 --> 00:48:35.840 aspirin, a lot of good things help to keep your ACE 2 up. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:42.240 I see. Okay. That's very good to know. And now I'm going to go to some questions from 00:48:43.040 --> 00:48:48.080 people who were kind enough to send them in. And the first one is a finishing up one from 00:48:48.080 --> 00:48:54.400 Ines Marx. He said, "In a very recent interview, Professor Dr. Christian Drosten, 00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:59.040 one of the leading virologists in Germany, said that some of the patients studied in Germany 00:48:59.040 --> 00:49:05.520 did not have neutralizing antibodies, which they found surprising, but have recovered despite their 00:49:05.520 --> 00:49:10.720 immune system not reacting correctly." That's in quotes, immune system not reacting correctly. 00:49:10.720 --> 00:49:15.840 What does Dr. Peat think of the role of neutralizing antibodies? And this is in 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:25.520 regard to the coronavirus. I think the healthy young person without too many vaccinations 00:49:25.520 --> 00:49:32.960 has an immune system that reacts correctly and doesn't bother with getting to the antibody stage. 00:49:34.720 --> 00:49:48.480 But there has been a kind of underground, gradually gaining recognition in the immunity field. 00:49:48.480 --> 00:50:03.680 Jamie Cunliffe in England and Polly Matsinger, I think she has worked her whole career at NIH 00:50:04.640 --> 00:50:12.640 in this country. And they have the danger theory of immunity or the damage theory, 00:50:12.640 --> 00:50:19.840 as Cunliffe's terminology, in which the immune system, in their view, 00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:29.920 isn't on the outlook for so-called pathogens. The antibody theory is based on the idea that 00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:43.360 we form a picture of the evil germs and then create antibodies specific to that image of evil. 00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:57.680 In this other picture of immunity, the organism has a picture of itself that it wants to preserve. 00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:06.160 It knows what it is and where its parts should be. And when it experiences damage, 00:51:06.160 --> 00:51:16.560 I think that's a better terminology than Matsinger's danger. The damage is recognized 00:51:16.560 --> 00:51:25.360 because the organism knows itself and knows when part of it is out of place. When an organism 00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:35.680 does damage, what is recognized is the damage. And in the process of correcting the damage, 00:51:35.680 --> 00:51:46.800 or the pathogenic cause of the damage tends to be recognized and eliminated. 00:51:48.080 --> 00:51:58.000 But the emphasis is put on maintaining or restoring the image of the body rather than 00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:07.520 learning images of potential invaders. Yeah, I suspect that's a more realistic approach. 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:18.960 About 20 years ago, someone was studying an encephalitis virus. And they 00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:31.200 were aware that a specific brain antibody was formed. And people were thinking of that antibody 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:42.560 as an autoimmune perpetrator of the encephalitis condition. But in this experiment, 00:52:42.560 --> 00:52:52.720 they suppressed the production of that specific antibody and found that the animal proceeded to 00:52:52.720 --> 00:53:01.360 die, got much worse when the antibody was removed. And they found that the antibody was serving the 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:14.880 purpose of repairing the brain, not causing the damage. And that is the view of Cunliffe and 00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:25.760 Matsinger, that the immune system is there to repair the damage. And if you have autoimmunity, 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:34.640 it's because something is prolonging the repair process. You want to give it more energy 00:53:34.640 --> 00:53:42.800 to complete the repair rather than trying to poison the system that makes the autoimmune antibodies. 00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:47.760 And does that relate to what you've mentioned before about retroviruses? 00:53:50.400 --> 00:54:01.120 Maybe indirectly. But some people say that as much as 50% of our genome might be retro elements. 00:54:01.120 --> 00:54:12.880 So when you stir up damage, like poisoning the liver, for example, you release thousands 00:54:13.600 --> 00:54:22.080 of things that can be identified as like a retrovirus. And so if you look for a particular 00:54:22.080 --> 00:54:31.680 virus-like particle in a stressed organism, it looks like you found the agent. But really, 00:54:31.680 --> 00:54:44.640 it's probably one of the repair processes. Barbara McClintock showed that we can move genes around 00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:57.280 under stress. Stress causes the mobility of genetic elements to increase. And these 00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:05.360 retro components seem to be emergency spare parts that you don't see unless you're under 00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:11.680 severe stress. Yeah, I related that to your saying that when you suppress the antibody, 00:55:11.680 --> 00:55:17.760 the organism, which was trying to repair the brain, you were saying. So I was thinking of it 00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:27.680 as doing repairs. But this is just another level of repair and revising the system, even at the 00:55:27.680 --> 00:55:35.360 genetic level. Okay, I'm going to move on to another question. And this one is hard to read. 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:41.680 I sent it to you by email, Ray, because it's got a lot of questions of nomenclature that I don't 00:55:41.680 --> 00:55:48.080 understand and probably can't read. I don't know if you saw it or not. I didn't. Okay, let me just 00:55:48.080 --> 00:55:55.280 try to simplify it. A paper published in Nature looked at 16 patients with COVID-19. The paper 00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:01.280 found that among the differentially expressed functional molecules, the levels of interferon, 00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:06.400 and then there's a bunch of letters, and T cells were lower in the severe group than in the mild 00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:14.240 group, whereas the levels of the granzyme B and perforin CD8 T cells were higher in the severe 00:56:14.240 --> 00:56:23.840 group than in the mild group. And this data indicates that COVID-19, similar to some chronic 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:29.840 infections, damages the function of the CD4 T cells and promotes excessive activation and 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:38.880 possibly subsequent exhaustion of those T cells, of the CD8 T cells. Together, these perturbations 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:45.600 of the T cell subsets may eventually diminish host antiviral immunity. Could Ray offer an 00:56:45.600 --> 00:56:50.640 interpretation of these statements and comment on the effects of aspirin in this context? 00:56:50.640 --> 00:56:55.440 I would have to read the article, but my first guess would be that 00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:10.720 the interferon and TNF, did the question say that they were increased or decreased? 00:57:10.720 --> 00:57:14.800 They were lower in the severe group than in the mild group. 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:30.800 I'm not sure how to interpret that. Apparently, something has killed a part of the 00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:41.200 T cell repertoire, and I would have to look at it closely to figure it out. 00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:50.160 Okay. All right. The next question is, do you think all the nonsense created by the coronavirus 00:57:50.160 --> 00:57:55.200 outbreak is a reaction to the anti-vax movement that's been increasing in the last few years? 00:57:55.200 --> 00:58:02.960 It'll be a good excuse for suppressing them more actively. 00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:11.200 Yeah, and I think it'll raise the peer pressure from the scared public to actually 00:58:12.080 --> 00:58:15.520 introduce vaccines for this sort of thing. 00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:26.560 Yeah, and the internet is being biased against them communicating with each other in the public. 00:58:26.560 --> 00:58:37.760 Yeah. Here's another one. I've been reading about the health risks from 5G and RF radiation from 00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:42.880 cell phone towers, Bluetooth, and cell phones and Wi-Fi. Some of the health risks are the same 00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:47.920 as coronavirus. How much are these cell phone towers and cell phones triggering the virus 00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:52.080 and/or suppressing the immune system? Thank you, Jason. 00:58:52.080 --> 00:59:06.480 The kind of damage done by chronic exposure to that kind of radiation does weaken the 00:59:07.040 --> 00:59:17.040 basic, quiet immune system, and so it would predispose you to the inflammatory kind of reaction, 00:59:17.040 --> 00:59:22.640 anything that is a chronic weakening influence. 00:59:22.640 --> 00:59:33.120 Let's see. Can you ask Ray about the confusion between people suggesting things that decrease 00:59:33.120 --> 00:59:43.840 ACE2 and things that increase expression of ACE2? Since ACE2 is known as the entry point of the CV, 00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:48.240 I see people suggesting to decrease anything that may increase suppression. 00:59:48.240 --> 00:59:52.000 Yeah, go ahead. 00:59:53.360 --> 01:00:04.560 I think that was an argument published in Lancet magazine against aspirin or anti-inflammatories, 01:00:04.560 --> 01:00:13.520 but I think those people just hadn't read the relevant things that, in fact, increasing 01:00:14.640 --> 01:00:23.280 ACE2 goes beyond what the virus infects and has a protective effect rather than a target effect. 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:32.080 Okay. And he adds, "When you look at the research, it seems that things increase expression of ACE2 01:00:32.080 --> 01:00:40.240 like losartan are most helpful for people with coronavirus. Can you suggest other things that 01:00:40.240 --> 01:00:47.200 can increase the expression of ACE2?" I think those that I already mentioned, 01:00:47.200 --> 01:01:00.720 progesterone, aspirin, vitamin B1, I think the anti-serotonin agents probably do that. I'm not 01:01:00.720 --> 01:01:09.840 sure. Okay. And what are your thoughts on social isolation being a remedy in keeping this virus 01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:24.640 contained? It does limit the spread of viruses, but that would be helpful in any flu season. 01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:36.880 But I think the harm done by the pressure to enforce isolation is greater than keeping the 01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:46.080 incidence of respiratory infections lower. I see. Since it doesn't seem like the contagion 01:01:46.080 --> 01:01:53.360 is that serious. So far, that's my impression. Yeah. The website of a British nurse has some 01:01:53.360 --> 01:02:00.240 contrary information about the nature of the pandemic and use of NISADs. What does that mean, 01:02:00.240 --> 01:02:08.400 Ray? Yeah. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Thank you. Aspirin. "As your friend said, 01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:13.920 most people will not die, but as it spreads undetected without symptoms in some and only 01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:19.040 after many days in others, tens of millions of people will be exposed as is happening. 01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:27.360 1% of 50 million globally could mean 500,000 deaths. Add to that everyone who for other reasons 01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:33.680 needs hospitalization but could not access it as the system overloaded to keep alive the 5% who 01:02:33.680 --> 01:02:39.520 need critical care and you have additional deaths. Both diet and general health are not optimal 01:02:39.520 --> 01:02:45.600 across this planet. So look to the poorest to die in large numbers. An occurrence the Bilderberg 01:02:45.600 --> 01:02:50.720 group types would not be concerned with. Your friend is right. This virus is similar, but the 01:02:50.720 --> 01:02:57.840 novel aspects that allow it to spread and contrary to his assessment, trigger an immune response 01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:05.360 that itself becomes life-threatening. It is also now killing people age 40 plus and younger if 01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:10.960 your immune systems are compromised. Lack of sleep, stress, bad diet, drugs, air pollution, 01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:16.960 which we are free to experience because of their freedoms. I wanted to mention that 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:30.720 the approach to killing the virus is almost always worse than the result of the effect of the virus. 01:03:32.240 --> 01:03:45.040 Three of the most often mentioned antiviral remedies, chloroquine, acyclovir, and 01:03:45.040 --> 01:03:56.960 another of the nucleoside analog types, can't think of the name right now, but these three 01:03:57.600 --> 01:04:07.680 most frequently mentioned are aimed at killing the virus by damaging its DNA or RNA or ability 01:04:07.680 --> 01:04:24.000 to replicate RNA or DNA. And these also happen to damage human DNA and at the expense of mutating 01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:34.000 millions of people. There are recommendations to try to slow the virus replication. 01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:40.960 But I think that's another thing besides crashing the economy to 01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:53.680 increase the amount of poverty in the world, the damaging nutrition and increasing stress 01:04:54.640 --> 01:05:04.560 and stress. These most frequently offered protections are really very serious harms. 01:05:04.560 --> 01:05:07.200 They actually poison you? 01:05:07.200 --> 01:05:18.960 Yeah, well, they damage the gonads and the retina, for example, anywhere that cells have to 01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:27.120 replicate and reproduce themselves, you're interfering with their DNA replication. And 01:05:27.120 --> 01:05:34.800 you create some sickness in the individual, but also the risk of mutated descendants. 01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:40.480 I see. Yeah. Great. There's a solution. 01:05:45.440 --> 01:05:49.920 And I think I have one more question. I'd like to get Ray's thoughts on claims that vitamin C 01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:56.480 can increase interferon and cause a cytokine storm, cytokine release syndrome. The few studies 01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:00.800 I've seen show the benefit of vitamin C for improving immune response, but some health 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:11.840 experts are warning against it. Thoughts? That has been my personal experience. In 1956, when 01:06:12.720 --> 01:06:20.800 vitamin C became cheap, the tablets were 500 milligrams instead of 50. I had good experience 01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:29.680 with the 50 milligram tablets in 1953, but I took one of the 500 milligram tablets and immediately 01:06:29.680 --> 01:06:38.720 got cold symptoms. And over the years, I had that experience until I would get bad symptoms 01:06:38.720 --> 01:06:46.480 if I would just have two or three milligrams of the synthetic form, which at that time could 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:56.080 be added to bacon or bread or pretzels, almost anything you wouldn't expect vitamin C to be 01:06:56.080 --> 01:07:05.840 added to. But I ran, because of my own experience, I ran into numerous other people who had had a 01:07:05.840 --> 01:07:16.000 similar allergy-like reactions to commercial vitamin C. I found that I could consume 4,000 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:25.040 milligrams a day of natural vitamin C by eating, simply eliminating grains from my diet. My intake 01:07:25.040 --> 01:07:33.520 averaged 4,000 milligrams of natural vitamin C, no problem at all, but two milligrams of the 01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:42.720 commercial stuff produced the reactions. And a chemist, a free radical specialist, 01:07:42.720 --> 01:07:53.440 dissolved 500 milligrams of reagent grade, the purest available, ascorbic acid in a liter of 01:07:53.440 --> 01:08:03.040 repeatedly distilled water, and then put it in an ESR apparatus to measure the free radicals. 01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:12.560 And he said that that amount of vitamin C contained enough heavy metals to oxidize 01:08:12.560 --> 01:08:21.520 the vitamin C into its free radical state, so that the free radical concentration was equivalent to 01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:29.600 a killing dose of x-ray. I forget, I think he said it was 60, 60 grays, 01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:37.280 super intense dose of x-ray to produce that free radical activity in water. 01:08:37.280 --> 01:08:44.640 - Wow. So that's what you'd inadvertently get trying to be healthy and eating vitamin C. 01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:54.240 - Yeah. He repeated, he analyzed the traces of heavy metals and picked out just one of 01:08:55.040 --> 01:09:04.720 numerous heavy metals present as contaminants, and just the iron alone would replicate that reaction. 01:09:04.720 --> 01:09:12.320 But the contaminants included a variety of toxic heavy metals. 01:09:12.320 --> 01:09:18.960 - So you should get your vitamin C from fruit, I assume, or you can also get it from meats too, 01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:25.600 right? - Meats and fruit and even milk. All animals, 01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:32.880 except people and guinea pigs and primates, make their own. And so all of the animal foods 01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:38.720 are generously supplied with vitamin C because the animal makes it. 01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:43.760 - I see. And you said you got it by eliminating grains. Does that mean you just didn't, 01:09:44.400 --> 01:09:50.000 you took those foods out of your diet and so you had more room for the vitamin C producing foods? 01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:58.560 - Yeah. Linus Pauling said we need 4,000 milligrams a day because that's the amount 01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:08.640 a goat or a chimpanzee would make on a body weight basis. But chimpanzees can't synthesize it, 01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:16.880 so they depend on getting it from their foods. And the only food they don't eat that we eat is grains, 01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:30.480 leaves and fruits and animals. And they get this diet. And the idea that we need a supplement is 01:10:30.480 --> 01:10:34.960 assuming that we live on bread and cereal and pasta. 01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:42.240 - I see. But you're not saying that the grains chelate out the vitamin C or anything like that? 01:10:42.240 --> 01:10:49.120 - No, they're just free of vitamin C. They're the only food that is free of it. 01:10:49.120 --> 01:10:56.800 - Yeah. All right. Well, that's good to know. So aspirin, B1, vitamins, not fruit, 01:10:56.800 --> 01:11:04.640 and any other suggestions for how to keep your immune system up? 01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:13.440 - Yeah. Vitamin D is one of the most important. It works with thyroid progesterone and 01:11:13.440 --> 01:11:29.040 H2, for example, to quiet the reactions. And calcium, keeping a high ratio of calcium to 01:11:29.040 --> 01:11:36.320 phosphate in your diet, works with vitamin D in calming the immune system, 01:11:36.320 --> 01:11:43.040 holding down the inflammatory reactions. - And vitamin A, is that important? 01:11:43.040 --> 01:11:51.040 - Yeah. The membranes in particular, all of our surfaces, eyes, nose, lungs, 01:11:52.560 --> 01:12:04.640 are dependent on a good vitamin A content for making proteins, largely, keeping the protein 01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:13.680 turnover at an ideal level. - Okay. Well, great. Is there anything 01:12:13.680 --> 01:12:18.400 else you'd like to add about a message to people at this time? 01:12:18.400 --> 01:12:30.400 - No. Looking at those videos that I mentioned or websites, I think will help to reduce the panic. 01:12:30.400 --> 01:12:36.880 Do you know who David Icke is, or Icky? It's spelled Icky. 01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:43.920 - You know, I just heard him recently. - There's a recent video of his on the 01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:50.240 coronavirus, and I had never thought of him as someone saying anything sensible. 01:12:50.240 --> 01:12:57.920 But the only thing I disagreed with him in this particular interview was his saying that sugar is 01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:08.400 immunosuppressive. But everything else that he says in that interview seems okay, although normally, 01:13:08.400 --> 01:13:19.360 I would consider him a borderline maniac. - Oh, would you? Okay. Well, that might be 01:13:19.360 --> 01:13:24.320 an interesting listen. And I also would like to talk to you sometime about the importance of 01:13:24.320 --> 01:13:32.720 keeping your blood sugar at an optimal level in terms of supporting one's immunity, because I 01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:36.880 think a lot of people are talking about fasting as a way to boost their immune system. 01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:48.240 - Yeah. Just 24 hours of fasting is enough to damage all of your functions, energy production 01:13:48.240 --> 01:13:56.720 especially. And energy is a basic thing for maintaining your non-inflammatory immune system, 01:13:56.720 --> 01:14:03.280 your health maintenance system. - Okay. So maybe we can go into that 01:14:03.280 --> 01:14:06.720 in some detail at some point. - Okay. 01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.120 Ray, thanks so much for being on Politics and Science. I really appreciate it, and 01:14:11.120 --> 01:14:15.040 hope you stay well, and we'll talk to you again soon, I hope. 01:14:15.040 --> 01:14:18.320 - Okay, thanks. - Okay, thanks, Ray. Bye-bye. 01:14:18.320 --> 01:14:22.640 - Bye. - So ends the interview with Dr. Raymond 01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:34.400 Peat, PhD in biology from the University of Oregon, and this was recorded on the 24th of March 2020. 01:14:34.400 --> 01:14:40.080 I've been your host, John Barkhausen, and please tune in again next week for another 01:14:40.080 --> 01:14:45.360 edition of Politics and Science.