WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 [music] 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:11.000 You are listening to WMRW-LP, Warren, 95.1 FM. 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:16.000 The following program presents the views of its participants and producers. 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:22.000 It does not necessarily represent the views of WMRW or its license holder, RootsWork. 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:23.000 All right. 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:31.000 Lisa, keep community radio going. Call 496-4951. Click on the pig at WMRW.org. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:32.000 Give what you can. 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.000 Give what you can. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.000 Yes. 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:40.000 Hey, everyone, and welcome to Politics and Science. I'm your host, John Barkhausen. 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:45.000 This week, we return to the archives of my Ray Peat interviews. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:52.000 This is from WGDR in Plainfield, Vermont, part of Goddard College. 00:00:52.000 --> 00:01:02.000 And these interviews were done between, I think, 1999 and about 2003. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:08.000 This particular one's about radiation, different types of radiation, RF radiation mostly. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:18.000 I think we also mentioned ionizing radiation as in nuclear power and nuclear industrial military radiation. 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:29.000 But he also talks about some interesting scientists, Yuri Kholodov, Tromp, and some things you won't hear from anybody else. 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:34.000 It's pretty interesting, I think, but then I'm a little bit biased about this. 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.000 But I hope you enjoy it. 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:43.000 And Ray Peat has a website. He's still teaching out in Eugene, Oregon. 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:51.000 He also does nutritional consulting. And on his website, he has, I think, maybe 90 articles. 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:55.000 There were former newsletters of his that you can also subscribe to. 00:01:55.000 --> 00:02:00.000 But if you want to read archived newsletters, they're fantastic. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:07.000 They have full references, so you can look up where he gets his ideas and how he reaches his conclusions. 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:16.000 And you can go to raypeat.com to browse through his site and look up issues that are interesting to you. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:21.000 That's r-a-y-p-e-a-t dot com. 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:27.000 And now we pick up in mid-program Dr. Raymond Peat. 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:31.000 He's a physiologist and endocrinologist from Eugene, Oregon. 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:36.000 And we start talking about radiation. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:41.000 I hope you enjoy it. 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:45.000 So, should we go on to a totally different subject? 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.000 Okay. 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.000 And it's cell phones. 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:49.000 Yeah. 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:54.000 And I was wondering, I'm confused about what the difference is between cell phones, 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:58.000 and then you have remote phones, which I have in my house. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:05.000 And then there's also radio frequencies, you know, like associated with this radio station. 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:12.000 The remote phone just has a weak transmitter and receiver. 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:17.000 The transmitter doesn't have to go more than 100 feet or something like that. 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.000 Right. 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.000 I think they're called 900 megahertz or some of them. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:31.000 Yeah, the strength of the field is so much lower, it isn't much of a worry. 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:41.000 But the cell phone produces really not quite a brain-melting field, 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:45.000 but definitely a biologically significant field. 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.000 So they have to be much more powerful to go further. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:49.000 Yeah. 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:55.000 They have to transmit your signals, not just your home telephone, 00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:04.000 but have to transmit it to wherever the receiver is, the relay station. 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.000 Is that considered a microwave? 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.000 Yeah. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:08.000 It's a very high frequency? 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.000 Yeah. 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:14.000 Radar is, you know, they used to talk about radar range. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.000 I think that was the brand of microwave oven. 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:18.000 Right. 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:30.000 That range, it's short for radio waves, like a shortwave radio is in a few meters length. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:37.000 Radar is in the centimeter length, a few inches. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:45.000 And television, the television band overlaps a little bit with the shortwave band. 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.000 Television is a fairly shortwave. 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.000 A few feet or something? 00:04:51.000 --> 00:05:02.000 Yeah, like I noticed that my body would resonate with one of the channels, 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:07.000 and the cat's body would resonate with, I think it was channel 11, 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:14.000 so that the TV would go out of tune when the cat walked near it on channel 12 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:19.000 and out of tune on, I think it was channel 6 for me. 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:27.000 So you can visualize the way the waves resonate with an animal of a certain length. 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.000 I see. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:34.000 And after the Second World War, they had killed a few people. 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:41.000 A few sailors would walk in front of a radar antenna, 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:46.000 and so they would die and they would find that they had been cooked, 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:48.000 their brain would be cooked. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:52.000 And so they did experiments on monkeys, 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:59.000 and they found that the size of the organ or brain 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:07.000 would determine how hot that organ got in a field of a given wavelength, 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:12.000 so that a monkey with a little brain would have its brain cooked 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:19.000 by a shorter wave, higher frequency radar. 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.000 That's interesting. 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:26.000 My brother-in-law had an experience of, I think he'd seen seagulls explode 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:32.000 when he was in the Navy when they flew too close to a radar. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:37.000 And I think he also had an experience of being on a tower, 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.000 you know, he was an E.T., an electronic technician, 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.000 and he was trying to fix the radar. 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.000 And there was some point where it was turned on accidentally when he was up there 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.000 and he should have been cooked, but it didn't cook him, 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.000 and he never could figure out why it didn't. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.000 Well, if it's the wrong frequency, you don't resonate very well. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:07:01.000 It's like the difference between the cat and me and the different channels of TV. 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:11.000 Theoretically, you could design a frequency of microwaves 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:16.000 that would cook a tumor selectively. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.000 People have tried to use microwaves. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:22.000 They're still doing it to kill tumors, 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:30.000 but generally it's something about the anti-scientific mind of the medical people. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.000 They don't get very subtle, 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:40.000 and so they'll treat a breast cancer by jamming an antenna through the person's chest 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:46.000 or really gross ways of applying the microwave frequency 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:57.000 where it is at least theoretically possible to tune the microwave to a solid tumor. 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:09.000 The MRI, molecular resonance imaging, uses a very fine version of this. 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:17.000 You can tune in to one type of molecule rather than another type. 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:24.000 The resonance can distinguish one kind of atom from another kind of atom. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:27.000 Wow. 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:40.000 That involves just having a strong, steady magnetic field and scanning a microwave. 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:50.000 You can distinguish water from drier tissues, how much water a tissue has in it, and so on. 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:55.000 Since cancers are wetter, they're young, 00:08:55.000 --> 00:09:00.000 and so the cells are, if they're growing faster, 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:06.000 they're younger and more water-loaded than mature cells. 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:19.000 So you can visualize a cancer very easily by this microwave absorbing ability of their water molecules. 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.000 Some people have suggested that just because of the high water content, 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:30.000 you could selectively heat and kill tumors. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.000 That hasn't been developed as far as I know, 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:48.000 but the solidity and size of a round tumor can allow it to be selectively heated. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:53.000 The heating effect is one in which water molecules, 00:09:53.000 --> 00:10:03.000 for example infrared rays, selectively resonate with water molecules. 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:13.000 The rotation and vibration of water is fairly specific for infrared 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.000 so that infrared doesn't go through water very far. 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:30.000 Water molecules have different degrees of association with proteins and fats in the living cell, 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:34.000 and so different wavelengths and different energies 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:44.000 will select out different conditions of the water molecules with which they resonate. 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:50.000 So you can distinguish the looseness or the freeness of the water molecule 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.000 by how it resonates to the microwaves. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:02.000 These effects have been known as long as the technique of molecular resonance 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.000 has been known, 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:14.000 so there's no big mystery to why cells should be able to detect and respond to 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:26.000 and be harmed by microwaves far below the strength at which they would be cooked to death 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:34.000 because they resonate to really very weak environmental fields. 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:38.000 In a steady magnetic field, 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:47.000 they tend to align their electrons and nuclei with that field, 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:52.000 and then the alignment with that field 00:11:52.000 --> 00:12:00.000 governs how they're going to interact with a microwave coming through. 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:08.000 So you have competing alignments basically between the oscillating field and the steady field. 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:17.000 And while this is the alignment of the nucleus of the atom and the electrons, 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:26.000 in some situations the electrons are relatively free to resonate, 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:34.000 and the living state is full of these relatively free electrons, 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.000 like free radical electrons. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:44.000 But all of our metabolic processes depend on some relatively free electrons, 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:54.000 and these are very susceptible to electromagnetic field interference. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:03.000 Changing their alignment changes their ability to associate or resonate with each other. 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:09.000 Since they have to resonate with each other to perform the biological functions, 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:17.000 then external fields interfere with the ways that they interact with each other. 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.000 Right. So they can't function properly. 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:32.000 Yeah. So that's a very subtle biological response that you can see in animal experiments. 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:40.000 You can train animals to respond to a microwave field, for example, 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:49.000 that is very far below the heating threshold. 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:58.000 In 1968, I had been reading the work of Yuri Kholodov on sensing magnetic fields, 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:03.000 and I went to Moscow to visit him, 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:09.000 and he gave me a reading list and told me about his work. 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:17.000 And he knew more about the sensitivity of cells to electric fields, 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:20.000 the work that was being done in the United States, 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:28.000 than my nerve biology and physiology professors at the university knew. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.000 He just had tremendous access to world research, 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.000 which my professors didn't even want to hear about. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.000 Right. They already knew everything. 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:44.000 Yeah. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:55.000 In, I think it was 1960, Linus Pauling proposed a theory to explain how anesthetics work. 00:14:55.000 --> 00:15:00.000 He called it the clathrate theory of anesthesia, 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:12.000 in which it's analogous to something that happens in deep sea areas where methane is being produced. 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.000 Methane causes freezing of the water. 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:27.000 It orders the water molecules so that ice forms even above the freezing temperature of water. 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:35.000 And this same phenomenon sometimes causes sludging in natural gas pipelines. 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.000 Ice forms even at room temperature. 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:48.000 And corn plants can form ice crystals above the freezing temperature of water. 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.000 The clathrate principle is well established, 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:59.000 but Linus Pauling just said, "Well, maybe this will explain anesthesia because..." 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.000 They didn't know how it works? 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.000 No, they still don't know how anything works. 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.000 They being the medical establishment and the science establishment. 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.000 But Linus Pauling being an alert person said, 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:21.000 "Well, why not use this established physical principle for explaining how a similar chemical..." 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:34.000 He said, "You can't even conceive or theorize about how the noble gases create anesthesia." 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:41.000 At high pressure, nitrogen will anesthetize you as in deep sea divers. 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:46.000 But that functions as a noble or inert gas. 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:51.000 At extremely high pressure, helium will do the same thing. 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:59.000 And as you approach atmospheric pressure, the heavier noble gases are anesthetic 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:14.000 so that neon, krypton, xenon, xenon and krypton are anesthetic close to atmospheric pressures. 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.000 He said, "These are not chemically reactive. 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.000 How are you going to explain anesthesia by xenon and krypton?" 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.000 Right. 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:33.000 And he showed that the Clathrate principle explains this perfectly 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:41.000 that the noble gases work just like the natural gas, methane and organic molecules in general 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.000 that immobilize water molecules. 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:53.000 And he said, "Maybe this is simply intensifying a process that normally occurs in the resting cell 00:17:53.000 --> 00:18:00.000 and it locks cells into the resting relatively insensitive state." 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:12.000 And two of the researchers that Yuri Kholodov referred me to had books published in English, 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:17.000 but their books were fairly unknown. 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:25.000 Madeleine Barnothy and her husband published some books on biomagnetism. 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:36.000 And the founder of the science of biometeorology was named Salco Tromp. 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:45.000 He was in Holland and he wrote some very impressive books in English. 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:52.000 As early as, I think, 1940 or so, his first book, 00:18:52.000 --> 00:19:02.000 he surveyed the physical world looking for ways in which the environment interacts with organisms. 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:08.000 And liquid crystals were known way back in the '20s and '30s, 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.000 but no one knew what to do with them. 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:16.000 Salco Tromp, looking the way Linus Pauling did for physical principles 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:24.000 that explain interactions between such things as atmospheric pressure and electromagnetic fields, 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:35.000 he saw the phenomenon of liquid crystals and said, "The cells behave in many ways like liquid crystals, 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:38.000 organized but liquid." 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:49.000 And if people had read his books on biometeorology, 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:55.000 they would have come up with liquid crystal display screens about 30 years earlier 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:00.000 because he was explaining the same things, the same biological events, 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.000 that Madeleine Barnothy and her husband demonstrated 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:17.000 that people and other animals can detect a change even in a steady magnetic field at a very low level. 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:23.000 And the facts are there, the methods are there, 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:32.000 liquid crystals and clathrates and organized cell structures respond to these very low energy fields. 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:40.000 But the Navy physicists and medical people 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:47.000 didn't want to have their draftees worrying about subtle effects, 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:54.000 so they said that radar will only hurt you if it cooks your brain or your liver. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:01.000 And that propaganda put out by the government in the 1950s 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:06.000 to say that microwaves will only hurt you if they cook you, 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:15.000 that fits in with what the government was saying about low-level radiation from nuclear fallout, 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:21.000 that if it doesn't blister you, it won't hurt you at all. 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.000 There's a threshold of harm. 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:34.000 Basically, it's an interlocking system in which the government's lies about nuclear radiation 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:39.000 meshed with the lies about microwave and radar radiation. 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:44.000 And then it created a culture in which doctors 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:54.000 who didn't want to get sued for treating dandruff and acne with deadly doses of x-rays, 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.000 they had a very powerful motive. 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.000 They really did that? 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:07.000 Yeah, I knew people whose faces collapsed because they had had such intense doses of radiation. 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.000 I had never heard that. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.000 The bones simply disappeared in their faces. 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.000 And they treated dandruff and ringworm with x-ray. 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:20.000 And the brain, Yuri Kholodov showed that the brain and the testicle 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:30.000 are the two organs most sensitive to radiation of any sort, ionizing or magnetic or microwave. 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.000 That's disgusting if they did that. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:40.000 So the medical community had this, starting at the turn of the century, 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:50.000 had this very strong built-in motive not to be held liable for damages or murder. 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:57.000 And so they loved the government's stories about radiation and microwaves. 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:04.000 And so the medical scientific community from the '50s on built up this idea 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:11.000 that if it doesn't cook you or if it doesn't ionize your cells, then it's harmless. 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:14.000 It's below the threshold of harm. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000 But people are still saying this. 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:24.000 I saw recent articles in which they said microwaves don't have enough energy to ionize anything, 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.000 so therefore they can't do anything to you. 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.000 Yeah, and now we have towers going up. 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:36.000 I just drove back from the Midwest and I was really impressed. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.000 Along the highway there seems like this giant 120-foot tower 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:47.000 with what I believe are microwaves with Peters on top for all the cell phone traffic. 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.000 And I know in the city it's even worse 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.000 because I believe you have to have one in every corner of every block 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:59.000 so that you can have uninterrupted phone service as you walk down the street. 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.000 And I believe that's very close. 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:05.000 It's not very high off the ground and people are walking right under it. 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:10.000 I don't know, how do you feel about the exposure from the towers themselves? 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:20.000 Well, most cities now downtown, they have such a high field intensity from microwaves, 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.000 telephone microwaves especially, 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:33.000 they're way up in the danger range known to produce leukemia and mutations. 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:43.000 In the '70s and '80s they knew that quail eggs, for example, that hatched near power lines, 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:50.000 the sex ratio of the hatchlings was grossly distorted. 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.000 It was practically all females. 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.000 The males died or were modified. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:05.000 And someone who knew about that looked at the children of telephone linemen 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:13.000 and saw that they had children with an extremely distorted sex ratio. 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:21.000 The Y chromosome sperm cell seems to be more fragile 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:28.000 and microwaves can break chromosomes among other things on the grosser level. 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.000 So how do you feel about microwave ovens? 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:43.000 They used to put out leakage that would be harmful at three or four feet, 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:54.000 but I think the government standards coming in in the '80s clamped down on those leakers. 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:04.000 And I've measured the field around them and beyond three feet I think they're nowadays safe. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.000 So you don't want to stand there reading a book while you're... 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:09.000 Not right up against them. 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:10.000 Coffee's heating up. 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.000 Yeah. 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:20.000 So do you think the remote phones that people use in their houses, 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.000 the 900 megahertz phones, do you think those are fairly safe? 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.000 I know there's quite a difference between the cell phones also. 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:34.000 Yeah, I think the little remote phones that only transmit 100 feet, 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:40.000 I think those aren't enough to worry about because walking downtown, 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:46.000 on the downtown streets you're getting much higher intensity radiation. 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000 Just from the cell phones? 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.000 Yeah, from the repeater stations. 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:52.000 Yeah. 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:57.000 And radio waves like this FM station right here we're sitting inside of this... 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.000 Yeah, I hope your tower isn't near you. 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.000 It's about 50 feet away I'd say. 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.000 Really, the transmitting tower? 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.000 Yeah. 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.000 That's not probably safe. 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:13.000 Yeah, I've heard there's an apartment complex right near it too. 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:16.000 I had a friend living there and he said even his toaster 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:21.000 couldn't receive the dotted radio signal. 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:23.000 So how far do you think the transmitter... 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.000 It's a 1,000 watt station. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:28.000 It's got three bays. 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:33.000 I think it ought to be hundreds of yards away. 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.000 And you could maybe shield yourself from that possibly? 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.000 Yeah. 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:44.000 You can ground a big screen or a metal roof that's grounded. 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.000 Yeah. 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.000 There are many reasons for having a tin roof, 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.000 but electromagnetic shielding is an important reason. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.000 Yeah, I've noticed it does affect my phone at home and the radio reception. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.000 How about cinder block? Is that a block? 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.000 No, that doesn't do anything. 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:11.000 But if you have a cinder block with a tin roof and ground tin roof, 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.000 then you're pretty good. 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:20.000 I'm not sure what the roof is in this building. 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:29.000 So basically very small magnetic fields affect your cell resonance. 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:30.000 Yeah. 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.000 Did you get that little news item I sent you, email? 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.000 Yeah. 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.000 I didn't bring it with me, 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:44.000 but it looked like the exposure to the people in Poland that the study was on 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.000 basically doubled their cancer rate. 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:51.000 Yeah, some types of cancer six or eight times. 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.000 I think one was 13 times higher. 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:55.000 Wow. 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.000 And they said they broke it down into different age groups, 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:02.000 and I don't think that was in there, what the results were. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.000 No, I haven't seen the article. 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.000 Just the abstract. 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.000 Right. 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:13.000 Yeah, that sounded pretty condemning of it. 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:20.000 And this Englishman, Sir Richard Dahl, was denying it for a long time, 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:30.000 but has now affirmed that leukemia is caused by electromagnetic fields. 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.000 Huh. 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:40.000 The story of how John Goffman went from being the government's main apologist 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.000 for low-level radiation in the '50s, 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.000 he went around lecturing against Linus Pauling, 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.000 who was warning about the dangers of fallout. 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.000 The government took Pauling's passport away for disloyalty 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.000 because he wanted to protect the American public. 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:10.000 And John Goffman was the AEC's counter-Linus Pauling leader. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.000 And he describes what happened to him. 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.000 He says while he was giving a lecture, 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:24.000 saying that if we can't prove that these low levels are causing harm to the population, 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.000 we shouldn't. 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:32.000 And at that point he realized what he had been saying for 10 years was insane. 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.000 Yeah. 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:42.000 And since then he's shifted and has become the leader of the anti-radiation movement. 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:43.000 Yeah. 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:48.000 But he was fired as soon as he had that moment of sanity. 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:49.000 Right. 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:54.000 Yeah, well, there was a show on this station earlier in the week, 00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:00.000 and I believe they were talking about how they poison us first and then they track it. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.000 But that's the way the industry works. 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.000 I think they were talking about the drug industry. 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.000 They can get away with anything. 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:14.000 Yeah, food industry and drug industry and radiation and telephone industry, 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:20.000 all of these industries have bought the appropriate agency of the government. 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:21.000 Right. 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:27.000 And then that agency basically becomes their PR arm and absorbs all their liability. 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.000 Yeah. 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.000 That was an interesting thing also. 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:40.000 You sent another article talking about locking up all the scientific information 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.000 so it's not allowed to be circulated, 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:49.000 that the publishers of scientific journals are charging outrageous fees 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.000 and trying to basically counteract, it sounds like, 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:58.000 the new ability we have of correlating information with search engines. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.000 Mm-hmm. 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:11.000 In the '90s when the economy was booming more than any economy ever in history, 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:15.000 university libraries were canceling journal subscriptions, 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:23.000 not just in science but hundreds of journals were canceled here at the University Library in Oregon. 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:28.000 And I've heard the same sort of thing happens all across the country. 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.000 Because of the expense? 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.000 Yeah, supposedly the expense. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:41.000 I don't know what it is that institutions like libraries are having to be cut back so radically 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.000 in a time of such a booming economy. 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:51.000 But I used to spend every day in the library for decades 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:58.000 and my favorite journals one by one in the last several years were canceled. 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:03.000 And they happened to be the journals that I most counted on 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:07.000 because they were not pushing a party line. 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.000 Yeah. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:20.000 Now the library pretty much is just reinforcing the official scientific lines 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.000 because they've canceled so many of the journals 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:31.000 that were open to scientific discussion and criticism. 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:35.000 Yeah, it sounds like they're trying to take away the public's ability 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:42.000 to review any of the information that we're getting from the government basically. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:49.000 Yeah, and the government runs Medline and the National Library of Medicine. 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.000 I didn't know that. 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:55.000 Well, now they have changed it to PubMed. 00:33:55.000 --> 00:34:02.000 But years ago I used to look up a given subject 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.000 and I would check Index Medicus, 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:12.000 which was the same indexing system that became Medline and then PubMed. 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:18.000 And I would check to see if they had anything that I hadn't found 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:23.000 in chemical abstracts or biological abstracts. 00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:31.000 And I would generally find that something that had been researched 00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.000 for 10 or 20 or 30 years 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:40.000 and had abundant information in biological or chemical abstracts, 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000 there would be nothing in Index Medicus. 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.000 And then after about 20 years, 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:50.000 something might start showing up in Index Medicus. 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:57.000 After the animal research had established something, 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:04.000 then a generation later a little bit would show up in the medical index. 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:05.000 That is slow. 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:11.000 Yeah, and basically our librarian posted a sign 00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:16.000 when they got a computer that would search Medline or PubMed. 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:22.000 They put a big card sign on top of the monitor that said, 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:26.000 "Medline is not a science database." 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:31.000 And so librarians have known that fact 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:38.000 that if you're looking for science, you don't go to Medline or PubMed. 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:42.000 But even though librarians know it, 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:51.000 anyone who has tried to look for information seriously finds it out very quickly. 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:59.000 Several years ago, some professor wrote to a magazine, 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:04.000 Townsend Letter for Doctors, that had published one of my newsletters 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:12.000 and said that he had searched Medline and couldn't find anything similar. 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.000 And he was a university professor 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:20.000 who thought he had searched the database because he looked in Medline. 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:27.000 And for professors to think that they're doing science when they look in Medline, 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:36.000 it's like a brain surgeon looked in a podiatry database. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:44.000 It's just really depressing that professors think they're doing science 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:51.000 by looking on the computer for what the library of medicine has. 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:56.000 Yeah, we were, Steve has been reading the Probiazin book, 00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:01.000 and it just sounds like what the AMA was trying to do back then 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:07.000 was basically control all of the information that was getting out about anything. 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:11.000 They don't want the public to know unless they screen it first. 00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:19.000 Yeah, that book has, I think, the story of the fraudulent article published in JAMA 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:23.000 that they would never retract. 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.000 Right, so it's been going on a long time. 00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:26.000 Yeah. 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:32.000 It sounds like it's just getting more consolidated. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.000 You must use search engines to search on the Internet. 00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.000 Are any of the journals online? 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.000 Well, I subscribed for a while to a thing called Current Contents. 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:52.000 A subscription to biological abstracts costs $4,000 or $7,000 a year or something like that. 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:56.000 But for a few hundred dollars, you can get Current Contents, 00:37:56.000 --> 00:38:03.000 and you can select a broader spectrum of science journals, biology journals, 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.000 than you get on the PubMed. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:12.000 But the only way to really do it is to go to a library that, 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:21.000 if you want to only go back 30 years, libraries will have computers that go back. 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:26.000 I'm not sure how far back the computers go in chemical abstracts, 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.000 which they have good nutrition references 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.000 and a lot of medical references in chemical abstracts and biological abstracts. 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:41.000 But if you're really going to want to know what's going on in the subject, 00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:45.000 you have to use the bound volumes. 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.000 And the books are big, 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:54.000 and so you get your exercise by taking down these 10-pound books. 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.000 Yeah. 00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.000 So that stuff hasn't been edited to the computer yet? 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.000 No, and I don't think anyone is going to do it 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:11.000 because the whole trend is away from making information available, 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:14.000 but making people think it's available. 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:15.000 Right. 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:18.000 So you have the PubMed to just make you think you have access. 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:22.000 Yeah. 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.000 Stuff leaks through into PubMed, 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:32.000 but it's a matter of leakage rather than being sought. 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.000 We have a guest in the studio here, our station manager. 00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:42.000 I'm not sure what he's up to, but we'll let him come on. 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.000 Oh, wait a sec. I've got to turn him on here. 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.000 There we go. 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.000 Can you hear me over there? 00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:50.000 Yeah. 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:51.000 All right. 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.000 I've been listening to the show, 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:57.000 because it's such an interesting topic, 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.000 and at the same time so important, 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.000 the knowing how RF affects us in our daily lives. 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.000 When it came down to GDR and what you were asking, 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.000 I thought, "Oh, well, I'd rather pull out our files." 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:17.000 And the station is required to go through some studies, 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:20.000 and the EFCC sets the guidelines for that. 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:25.000 And we go through those studies in a cycle of every four years. 00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.000 Conclusions, the above calculations show that WGDR-FM facility 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:31.000 is in compliance with the guidelines 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:35.000 with respect to areas accessible to general public. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.000 So that's why we have the tower gated 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:42.000 so that people won't get into the tower 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.000 so that then they won't start climbing up the tower 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:49.000 because the higher exposure occurs on the tower 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.000 as you're closer to the antenna base. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.000 So below that point, which is ground level, 00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.000 and where we are even more so, 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:01.000 we're safe according to the FCC guidelines 00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:05.000 that they establish for measuring the type of RF exposure. 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.000 I think what Ray is saying is that FCC guidelines perhaps 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:16.000 don't attune to the fact that cells are a little more sensitive than they think. 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.000 But we're legal, Ray. 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.000 Yeah, how many milliwatts did they say? 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.000 Zero point how many? 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.000 0.0327. 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:31.000 That is at 7.2 meters above ground. 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:32.000 Oh, above the ground. 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:33.000 Right, right. 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:36.000 Because that's how you would start getting closer 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.000 to the actual antenna base. 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.000 Right. 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:45.000 Does that reading mean anything to you? 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:54.000 Oh, knowing what it's doing at where you are 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:56.000 is the significant thing. 00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.000 You can get these little meters for $30 or $40. 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:01.000 The RF meters? 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:02.000 Yeah. 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.000 Yeah. 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:09.000 You can find out what it's really doing exactly where you are 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:17.000 and then compare it to power lines and the published research. 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.000 Right. 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.000 Of course, our government has always maintained 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.000 that power lines are perfectly harmless, I believe, right? 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.000 Yeah, but they aren't. 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:33.000 If they make quails hatch, no-mail quails, 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.000 they're definitely not harmless. 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:38.000 Yeah. 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.000 That's been known for 15 years or so, 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:46.000 and the studies of power line workers 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:53.000 who have abnormal reproductive patterns, 00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:02.000 infertility, or not having male children, 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:07.000 really the reasoning is that if it doesn't ionize you or cook you, 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:08.000 then it's harmless. 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.000 Right. 00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:15.000 Well, it is warm in here. 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000 I wonder why I was always warm even during winter, right? 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.000 Yeah, the heat's never on. 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.000 I wonder why my hands would not need gloves 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.000 when I was working on the antenna base, right? 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:27.000 Our coffee always stays hot. 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:33.000 Well, thank you as far as I go in my participation. 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:35.000 I just wanted to throw my two cents in. 00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:38.000 Yeah, thanks for reassuring us, Carlos. 00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:46.000 In the short run, microwaves and radio waves can be used. 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.000 You can touch an antenna and feel that it's warm, 00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:56.000 and doctors use radio waves of many different frequencies. 00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:01.000 Shortwave bands have, I don't know if they still do it, 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.000 but they used to a lot, a diathermy band, 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:13.000 so that chiropractors and such could emit pretty intense signals 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:18.000 into the knees of their arthritic patients to heat the joint, 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:28.000 and it would show up as a funny sound on the shortwave band. 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000 But they do have therapeutic value in the short run, 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:39.000 but the problem is that if it's a constant factor in your life, 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:45.000 it biases those subtle electronic and molecular processes, 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.000 the way water is organized in relation to the proteins, 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:54.000 and has a chronically disorganizing influence. 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.000 Yeah. 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.000 I know some people, I think if you talk on a cell phone for long enough, 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.000 it gets warm. 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:03.000 Is that true? Yeah? 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:09.000 Oh, yeah, then that's definitely causing biological damage, 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:18.000 because the distance between the warming energy and the biologically harming range, 00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:23.000 once you get up in the warming range, then you know it's biologically harmful. 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:24.000 I see. 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:29.000 And some of the bands I've heard are much better than others. 00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.000 Some emit far less radiation than others. 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:34.000 I don't know how they achieve that. 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:39.000 Well, just tilting the antenna is one way to do it. 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.000 Just move the field, basically. 00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:46.000 Yeah, and they found that having the antenna on your belt 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.000 and just the receiver connected by a wire, 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:56.000 that turned out to be even worse because the field traveled up the wire 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:59.000 and got your head anyway. 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.000 You get total coverage. 00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:02.000 Yeah. 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.000 And the car phones which are wired into the car, 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:07.000 I would think that would be better. 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:10.000 So, you know, you're on a speaker phone. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:15.000 Oh, yeah, I think if your antenna is outside the car, 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:18.000 then that's much safer. 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:20.000 Right. 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.000 Well, you're probably driving down the freeway now, right? 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.000 Talking on a cell phone? 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:35.000 I should mention that beans and cell phones aren't completely unrelated subjects. 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:36.000 Is that right? 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:41.000 You get some of the same kinds of damage from eating beans that you do from radiation. 00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.000 Wow. 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.000 You actually connected the two subjects. 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:48.000 I didn't think that was possible. 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:53.000 So what is the similar damage to cellular? 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:56.000 Cellular communications are disrupted 00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:03.000 and the immune system is the most sensitive to both of them. 00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:09.000 Ionizing radiation kills your white blood cells very easily, 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:21.000 but at lower levels of radiation will disrupt your immune system if they're chronic. 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:27.000 And that's what the PHA and other lectins do. 00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.000 They first mess up your immune system, 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:37.000 but then gradually they will cause growth abnormalities in your liver, 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:44.000 thymus, and pancreas and intestine and different organs. 00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.000 And I was curious, on the political front, 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.000 how you feel about the new push for nuclear power. 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.000 They're really cranking it up here. 00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:01.000 Yeah, it's the same people coming back. 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:09.000 Three Mile Island wasn't the first disaster. 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:18.000 Ernest Sternglass is in a league with Linus Pauling and John Goffman 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:28.000 as people who were punished by the government and the industry for telling the truth. 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:37.000 Ernest Sternglass wrote Secret Fallout, I think was the title of his first book. 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:44.000 I happened to get a copy of it, but it was withdrawn from publication. 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:52.000 I forget how many, it was 90% of the copies, something like that, were destroyed. 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:53.000 What was it called? 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:57.000 Secret Fallout, low-level radiation. 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:01.000 He came out years later with a new version of it, 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:08.000 but the book was almost completely suppressed in the first edition. 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:21.000 People in the nuclear industry had seminars in which Goffman and Templin and Pauling and Sternglass 00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:30.000 were the devils in which they were, without reading or allowing their employees to know anything, 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:33.000 that Sternglass or the others were saying. 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:38.000 They trained, basically brainwashed their employees to say, 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:45.000 "These are stupid, incompetent people who are saying things that are not scientific." 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.000 But in fact, if you look at what they're saying, 00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:54.000 they're strictly, actually a very conservative interpretation. 00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:02.000 Goffman always takes the most conservative interpretation of the facts, 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:11.000 and he doesn't want to be accused of being an alarmist, 00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:16.000 so he takes the most conservative scientific interpretation 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:22.000 and then says that medical x-rays cause 75% of the breast cancers. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.000 Yeah, that is amazing. 00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:33.000 And Ernest Sternglass was one of the people who studied Three Mile Island, 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:40.000 but he had been studying other reactor leaks that we never heard much about 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:49.000 and found just from ordinary emissions, 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:56.000 so-called ordinary emissions, that horrendous amounts of isotopes were being released. 00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:03.000 And it's the normal releases that the government allows the nuclear industry, 00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:06.000 which everyone should be worried about, 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:11.000 not just the mining and the storage problems, 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:19.000 but the legal releases that the industry is always doing. 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:25.000 Yeah, I would not want to live near a nuclear plant myself. 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:34.000 I don't feel like they're honest in where they communicate with the public, 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:40.000 and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is certainly not looking out for the public interest. 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:47.000 Yeah, even Linus Pauling was misled by the propagandists of the industry and the government. 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:51.000 Their favorite argument was, 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:59.000 "If you fly in an airplane or live in Denver, you get so much radiation, 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:06.000 why do you want to worry about the radiation that comes from nuclear fallout or the nuclear industry?" 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:16.000 And Linus Pauling was convinced that living at high altitude or flying in an airplane 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:21.000 was carcinogenic because it increased your radiation exposure. 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:28.000 But in fact, high altitude gives you a different kind of cosmic ray. 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:32.000 It increases the higher you are, the more primaries you get, 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:35.000 and the fewer secondaries and tertiaries. 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:45.000 Basically, it's like one beam coming in producing a shower which produces another shower, 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:51.000 and the third shower is the one that's most carcinogenic, 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:53.000 and that's what happens at ground level. 00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:54.000 I see. 00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:01.000 So the industry was comparing totally unrelated things. 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:13.000 Yeah. 00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:21.000 So one isotope basically produces one cancer 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:30.000 because it is 100% absorbed because it is produced inside your body. 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.000 And I know that the nuclear industry wouldn't exist 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:38.000 if Congress hadn't passed the Price-Anderson Act, I think it was called, 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:44.000 which absolved them of all liability, or at least up to a certain point. 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:50.000 And so the whole thing is just totally propped up by money and politics, I guess. 00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.000 Yeah. 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:56.000 Norman Solomon's newspaper column yesterday 00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:03.000 was about the role of the journalism schools training liars. 00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:04.000 Oh, yeah. 00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:10.000 He said they used to train people in journalism to find out the truth. 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.000 Now they're training public relations people 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:19.000 to help industry and government distort the truth. 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:20.000 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.000 It seems like that's what we're getting. 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:30.000 I mean, the media seems to be dropping the ball more and more. 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:35.000 There are very few reporters I trust at this point. 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:38.000 So I guess it pays to get your information from a variety of sources, 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.000 cross-reference it. 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.000 Yeah, and your station can't have too many programs like this. 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000 No. 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:49.000 But we have more than the normal radio, I think, 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:54.000 mostly just because it's individuals from the community doing shows. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:57.000 It doesn't really go through much of a screening. 00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:02.000 So if you're interested in something, you can do the show. 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:07.000 Yeah, the government has been making its policy official 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:13.000 that community-controlled radio isn't really to be promoted. 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.000 It's to be displaced by corporate radio. 00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:18.000 That's exactly right, and that's what's going on here. 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:23.000 I've been trying to start a low-power radio station, which is tiny. 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:27.000 It's only got a six-mile diameter, I think. 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:33.000 And supposedly it was something that the last FCC commissioner, 00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:36.000 Kennard, was bringing out. 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.000 And at the last minute, believe it or not, NPR campaigned against it 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.000 because they were afraid it would cut into the-- 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:44.000 well, they said they were afraid it was going to interfere 00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:49.000 with handicapped broadcasts, hearing impaired and stuff. 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.000 But that was really a red herring. 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.000 I think they're really afraid it's going to cut into the market 00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.000 because what could be more community radio 00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:00.000 than something within 10 miles of your home? 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:06.000 And again, speaking of radio emissions and the beans, 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:11.000 ABM is a major funder of NPR. 00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:13.000 What is? 00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:14.000 Soybean Monopoly. 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:16.000 Oh, is that right? 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:22.000 The vitamin E and saving the world by growing soybeans advertisements. 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.000 Wow, yeah, that's right. 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:28.000 ABM, you hear that, marketplace to the world. 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:33.000 Yeah, they seem pretty compromised, most of their reporting. 00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:35.000 It's pretty wishy-washy, I feel like. 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:38.000 Every once in a while they have a good news report, 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:41.000 but for the most part they seem to be towing a corporate line. 00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:49.000 Yeah, the government and the bean monopoly 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:52.000 controlling radio broadcasts. 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.000 The bean millionaires. 00:56:54.000 --> 00:57:00.000 I know, and we've been trying to apply for this license 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:03.000 for this low-power radio station down where I live, 00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:07.000 and it's very hard to get a frequency. 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:11.000 All the frequencies have been taken up by religious stations. 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:16.000 I guess if you apply for one, that takes it off the available list. 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:20.000 Yeah, it's too bad someone doesn't have a religion 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:25.000 of true scientific information. 00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:27.000 That is too bad. 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:30.000 Well, maybe we can start a cult. 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.000 And that's going to have to conclude our episode of 00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:35.000 Politics and Science for this week. 00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:38.000 You've been listening to Dr. Raymond Peat, 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:47.000 interviewed back probably around 2003 at WGDR in Plainfield, Vermont, 00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:49.000 on the campus of Goddard College. 00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:53.000 I had a radio show up there back then, a great station. 00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:56.000 Dr. Raymond Peat is still teaching. 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:58.000 He's out in Eugene, Oregon. 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:05.000 You can reach him through his website, Raypeat.com, R-A-Y-P-E-A-T dot com. 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:10.000 He has 90 articles or so there, newsletters, 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.000 and you can research the issues that are important to you 00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:19.000 by using the Google search option on his web page. 00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:21.000 Thanks for listening, everyone. 00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:24.000 I hope you have a great week, and please tune in again next week 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:27.000 for another edition of Politics and Science. 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:29.180 *music*