WEBVTT

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 (upbeat music)

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 - Welcome to the Weight Loss for Women Podcast,

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 a place where we share everything you need to know

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 about restoring your metabolism,

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 so you can eat more, train less,

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 and lose weight in a healthy and sustainable way.

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 - I'm Kitty Bloomfield,

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 co-founder of NuStrength and Saturée,

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 your one-stop shop for metabolically supportive

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 food supplements, skincare,

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 which is coming out very, very soon.

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 We're hoping to release it at the end of February,

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 and we're now formulating makeup,

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 which is super, super exciting.

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 So, I'm so pumped about this episode

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 because I am joined by Dr. Ray Peat

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 and our awesome friend, Kate Deering,

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 who I'm sure you all know by now,

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 she's the author of "How to Heal Your Metabolism,"

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 and she's just awesome, we love her.

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 I've done numerous podcasts with Kate,

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 so I highly recommend you go back and listen

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 to all of those, full of great information,

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 and I've done a couple of other podcasts with Ray,

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 one with Ray and Kate, on vitamin D and minerals,

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 and then the other one was the first one I did with him,

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 with Emma Sgourakis, my business partner in Saturée,

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 and that was all things metabolism and dieting.

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 It was just to sort of,

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 we talked about a bit of everything episode,

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 but it's actually the most downloaded episode

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 on the podcast ever,

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 and it is just so jam-packed with information.

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 So, if you haven't listened to his other two podcasts,

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 I recommend that you do.

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 But in this one, we talk about the estrogen industry,

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 the magic of progesterone,

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 and the importance of thyroid hormones.

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 So, basically, we're just doing a deep dive

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 into all things hormones.

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 So, it's a two-hour episode,

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 and it is just so jam-packed with amazing information,

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 so I recommend that you grab a pen and paper,

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 and take notes, and you also grab a snack,

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 because we all know how important it is

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 to keep that blood sugar balance.

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 So, as always, please take a screenshot,

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 and share your biggest takeaways on Instagram stories,

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 and tag me at K-I-T-T-Y-B-L-O-M-F-I-E-L-D,

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 and please give us a rating.

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 So, that just helps to, I guess, spread the word,

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 and get more people listening to the podcast.

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 Let's get into it.

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 - Hi, Ray.

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 Hi, Kate.

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 Welcome back to the podcast.

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 - Thanks for having us again.

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 Super excited to chat with Ray again.

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 - Yeah, I know.

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 We had such great feedback from both the podcasts

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 that we've done so far,

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 and Kate and I just thought it would be so great

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 to get Ray on again,

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 and just talk about all things hormones.

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 And Kate, as usual, has written out a very comprehensive

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 and thorough list of questions for Ray.

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 So, you know, this is gonna be a jam-packed podcast,

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 so I would get a snack, and get a pen and paper,

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 because I'm sure you'll learn heaps.

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 So, I'm just gonna kick things off, Kate,

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 with the first question.

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 So, what are steroidal hormones,

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 and how do they work in the body?

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 - Steroid is a very stable organic molecule.

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 Astronomers have found that probably

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 it's the most common single type of molecule

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 in the universe.

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 It's so stable.

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 You can find it in inner cellar dust.

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 But anyway, the stability of it

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 means that it's a convenient molecule

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 for organisms to deal with.

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 And that, on the basic shape of these

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 four attached loops,

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 and the two ends,

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 and a couple of the side groups of the molecule,

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 are able to change cell functions

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 in a way depending on where the electrons go

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 in this stable, multi-ring molecule.

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 And the fact that it is this more or less

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 flat series of rings attached to each other

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 made people interested in the other spontaneous forms

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 of three or four or five rings linked together.

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 And they found that the black material

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 condensed from a candle, for example,

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 that the blackness is because of the electronic

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 and excess of electrons circulating in the molecule

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 cause it to absorb light.

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 But at the same time, these three electrons

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 in this series of circular

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 benzene ring-like molecules causes soot.

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 They knew it was carcinogenic since the 18th century,

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 but people started to see the similarity

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 in structure between estrogen and the soot molecules,

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 and started realizing that the carcinogenicity

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 of estrogen was very close to the carcinogenicity of soot.

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 And so they were making extracts

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 thousands of different molecular arrangements

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 of the aromatic, cyclic aromatic hydrocarbonate.

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 And they were testing codes and they were all

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 to some extent carcinogenic and estrogenic

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 and pro-inflammatory and associated with causing pain.

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 And one branch of the study of those

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 was to modify them slightly and use them

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 as anti-inflammatory drugs.

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 And tamoxifen is when its history started out

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 trying to make an anti-inflammatory

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 anti-estrogen and anti-soot molecule.

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 But it turned out to be more useful as an anti-estrogen

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 than as the anti-inflammatory.

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 But from the 1930s through the 40s,

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 this was a big focus of organic chemistry,

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 and especially a couple of French researchers

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 identified the way the shape of the molecule

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 focuses the electrons in particular areas.

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 And so you can predict from the shape of the molecule

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 whether it's going to be an irritant, a pro-inflammatory,

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 an estrogen or a carcinogen.

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 And the degree of each one,

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 there'll be a little overlapping,

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 but different molecules will have more estrogen function

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 in relation to the carcinogenic function.

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 And the fact that it was so easy

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 to produce thousands of different estrogenic molecules,

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 one group found that diethylstilbestrol,

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 essentially two rings connected by a short chain

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 was a very powerful estrogen

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 and not quite so carcinogenic.

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 And that became one of the first estrogens of commerce.

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 And it was still being promoted as a female hormone.

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 Estrogen had been the first ovarian hormone to be crystallized

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 and it turned out that the quantity of progesterone

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 in the ovary was hundreds of times greater

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 than the estrogen content.

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 But still they chose to go with the very cheap,

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 easy to make molecule and call it the female hormone.

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 And the pressure of wanting to promote their product

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 changed the FDA's attitude

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 and the nature journals during this period

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 in the early 1940s.

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 Estrogen was claimed to be therapeutic

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 for hundreds of different diseases and problems.

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 JAMA alone published articles

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 indicating estrogen to treat more than 200 different diseases.

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 Over the years, that list went from something more than 200

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 gradually smaller and smaller

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 as people realized that it was causing more harm than good.

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 But for quite a few years, Harvard joined in promoting

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 as a female hormone, so-called.

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 They said reproduction is the main female function.

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 And so estrogen must maintain a pregnancy

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 and prevent miscarriage.

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 So they were advocating on selling it

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 to immense profits to pregnant women

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 with the claim that it was preventing miscarriage.

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 But already by the late 1930s,

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 abortion and miscarriage was one of the most obvious features

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 of all of these estrogenic molecules.

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 - Okay, so I'm just gonna kind of summarize

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 'cause I think you're referencing the DES estrogen

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 therapies that used to be given back in the 1940s,

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 correct, to treat miscarriages.

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 And a lot of women received the DES therapies,

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 which ultimately found out that they were toxic

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 and were not helping

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 and were actually probably creating more issues

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 than anything.

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 That's what you're referencing correct right now

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 when we're talking about all these,

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 the beginning of the estrogen therapy world.

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 - Everything about it was triggered

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 right from the time the pharmaceutical industry

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 began promoting it.

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 They said black was white, death was life.

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 - Yes, so I guess in the context of the hormones raised,

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 definitely just talking about estrogen right now.

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 I'm talking about essentially that estrogen in itself

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 and how it's being utilized in the medical industry

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 has never had any sort of good foundation

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 that everything they thought it was doing, it didn't do.

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 In fact, it was actually being more harmful.

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 And in today, and so we're just gonna go off some tangents

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 'cause this is so interesting.

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 So today, Ray, 'cause obviously medical industries

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 still promote estrogen therapy on so many different levels.

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 Is it at all helping anyone on any amount?

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 'Cause obviously they say, well, now we have the dose right.

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 So we were doing too much before the end.

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 So now it's, some women do need estrogen.

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 So is that true?

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 - It's like radiation when they started using x-rays

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 they were wildly, basically slowly or not so slowly

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 killing people, but every few years they would say,

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 well, we've solved that problem.

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 Your arm isn't gonna rot off next week.

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 We've reduced the dose to where it's safe.

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 But every 10 years or so, the dose is radically reduced.

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 It's the same with estrogen.

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 Saying that now we've solved the problem of strokes,

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 heart attacks, lung diseases, endometriosis, fibrosis,

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 fibroids, we've reduced the dose so much

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 that those aren't the problem.

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 But it's the same as radiation.

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 Even a small amount out of the right context

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 is the right dangerous.

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 And the right context is that the two important qualities

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 distinguishing the real feminizing hormone progesterone

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 from estrogen, which happens to all also be the male

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 reproductive hormone in the sense of the increases libido

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 and the top is involved in sperm production and so on.

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 So, okay, so just, okay, I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

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 - The essential property is that it's excitatory

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 and progesterone is calming and stabilizing.

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 And so the body, when it wants to start a new cycle of life

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 and especially when it's under stress,

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 it produces estrogen to excite cell development

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 and preparation for making a new organism.

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 And so for a few hours in the monthly cycle,

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 for a few hours, estrogen should dominate

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 to start the production of new cells in the uterus,

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 in the breast, in the pituitary.

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 And those should be where it's action is concentrated.

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 If something interferes with the anti-progesterone,

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 anti-estrogen effect of progesterone,

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 then that effect of estrogen takes place

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 in places where it shouldn't,

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 such as the lungs are promoting lung cancer

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 or kidney cancer, or especially tumors of the organs

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 that it should be activating.

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 Either for a long or excessive exposure to estrogen

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 is extremely dangerous.

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 A young animal, given the normal amount of estrogen

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 that should be present,

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 if it's given that amount continuously

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 instead of a pulse at intervals,

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 continuous exposure to that same small normal amount

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 creates cancer and fibrosis

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 in every tissue of the body.

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 It's the failure to be interrupted by progesterone

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 that makes estrogen so toxic.

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 - And so just kind of wind back, right?

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 Because obviously we know both men and women have estrogen.

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 So just so people understand,

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 what is the purpose of estrogen in the female body

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 and also in the male body?

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 - In the male body is to excite,

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 mostly to excite libido and preparation for mating.

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 In the female, it does that in a more specific way,

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 enlarging the breasts and uterus,

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 the simplest test for a substance,

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 being estrogenic is to see if the weight of the uterus

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 quickly enlarges within hours of exposure.

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 The uterus expands with the same effect.

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 There is on a smaller scale in the brain and pituitary.

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 - So for women, obviously because they have a cycle

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 and they cycle with estrogen and progesterone,

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 can you explain when estrogen is the highest

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 in a woman's cycle and what it's doing in her cycle?

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 - It's most active at the time of ovulation

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 because although it becomes higher

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 in the middle of the luteal phase,

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 at the time of ovulation,

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 progesterone starts to be produced

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 in increasingly large amounts.

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 So even though estrogen rises

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 for several days after ovulation,

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 the even greater rise of progesterone is taking over

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 and preparing for surviving pregnancy.

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 If the progesterone fails to be produced

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 in a high enough amount,

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 the luteal defect of low progesterone causes menstruation.

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 The estrogen is the agent promoting menstruation,

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 which is effectively an early miscarriage.

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 - Right, can we go ahead? - So the tendency

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 to miscarry is the same thing that shows up

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 any time during the life cycle.

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 That the premenstrual syndrome goes

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 with the progesterone deficiency

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 and the tendency to miscarry

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 and any time later in life,

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 that same thing contributes to all of the degenerative

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 processes, the constant excitation

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 of the different tissues, uterus, breasts,

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.040
 lungs, kidneys, and so on.

00:20:31.040 --> 00:20:36.040
 All of those start forming a fibrotic matrix

00:20:36.040 --> 00:20:44.040
 and that's an early step of the carcinogenic process.

00:20:45.040 --> 00:20:48.440
 - Right, okay, so with women,

00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:50.960
 obviously it's normal to have increased estrogen

00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.080
 certainly during puberty and as they cycle.

00:20:54.080 --> 00:20:58.440
 First explain kind of where is estrogen produced

00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:01.800
 and where are all the places in a woman

00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:03.040
 that estrogen is produced

00:21:03.040 --> 00:21:06.200
 and then also where are they produced in men?

00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:14.680
 - Well, the studies, the very early studies

00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:18.680
 concluded that the ovaries were the source.

00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:25.080
 So for 80 years or so, the assumption has been

00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:33.280
 it's part of a huge ideology of single sources,

00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:41.160
 single effects, correcting single problems and so on.

00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:48.160
 But for 80 years, the assumption was that if you took out

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:54.440
 a woman's ovaries or an experimental animal's ovaries,

00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:59.600
 that meant that they're estrogen deficient.

00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.000
 I've only seen one or two groups that decided

00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.080
 to actually measure in animals

00:22:11.080 --> 00:22:15.840
 what the estrogen level was following

00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.200
 the removal of the ovaries.

00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.200
 And for the first week, the estrogen in the blood decreased

00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:29.080
 but after a week, it returned to the normal level

00:22:29.080 --> 00:22:30.920
 without ovaries.

00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:35.920
 And one group was measuring the milligrams

00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:42.920
 or micrograms of estrogen produced per minute by the ovaries.

00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:49.760
 And as a control, they were also measuring the estrogen

00:22:49.760 --> 00:22:55.360
 coming out of the veins of an arm.

00:22:55.360 --> 00:23:00.000
 And it turned out that the arm was producing

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.800
 just as much estrogen as the ovary.

00:23:02.800 --> 00:23:08.240
 - So when you say the arm, what are you referencing?

00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:12.400
 - They were using the right arm of a monkey.

00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.720
 - Okay, so was the estrogen being produced in the fat,

00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.440
 in the muscle, where was the estrogen?

00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:19.480
 Okay.

00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:20.680
 - Even in the bone.

00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:27.600
 The osteoporotic bone is full of aromatase, making estrogen.

00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:32.600
 All of these odd facts aren't so odd

00:23:32.600 --> 00:23:42.120
 if you see that stress increases aromatase

00:23:42.120 --> 00:23:48.640
 that not only increases the formation of the basic molecule

00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:54.000
 but the same conditions that lead to the production

00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:58.760
 of estrogen from any androgen.

00:23:58.760 --> 00:24:04.840
 The same process also tends to change

00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:11.880
 the low activity estrone to the high activity estradiol

00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:20.640
 and to eliminate the enzymes that would detoxify

00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.840
 the estrogen molecule.

00:24:22.840 --> 00:24:27.840
 So this experience of stress by a cell

00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:32.040
 increases the quantity of estrogen

00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:37.040
 and the intensity of its chemical activity on the cells.

00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:42.440
 - So wait, I have like 17 questions

00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.240
 all from what you were just saying.

00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.560
 'Cause we have a lot to kind of unpack there.

00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:49.680
 One, I just kind of want to say, so what you're saying is,

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.760
 estrogen is not only produced obviously in the ovaries,

00:24:52.760 --> 00:24:55.000
 but also it can be produced in the fat,

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.840
 in the muscle, in the bone.

00:24:56.840 --> 00:24:58.840
 Pretty much, are you saying it can be pretty much

00:24:58.840 --> 00:25:01.200
 produced anywhere if the body's under stress?

00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.800
 - Yeah, the skin is another nature source.

00:25:05.800 --> 00:25:09.880
 - Okay, so under, obviously they realized this

00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:13.440
 after they removed ovaries from, was it a monkey?

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:18.440
 - Well, rats were they decided to measure the actual estrogen

00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.880
 after taking the ovaries out.

00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.520
 - Okay, so essentially we realized after removing ovaries,

00:25:26.520 --> 00:25:28.920
 they were producing just as much estrogen

00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:30.760
 as they were before they had their,

00:25:30.760 --> 00:25:32.240
 I mean, when they had their ovaries.

00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.200
 So obviously that we can produce estrogen without ovaries.

00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.760
 So we can produce estrogen without ovaries.

00:25:37.760 --> 00:25:40.680
 And then we can produce estrogen without ovaries.

00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.440
 We can produce estrogen without ovaries.

00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:48.440
 So what exactly then is happening to women postmenopausal

00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:49.920
 and they're going to their doctor

00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:52.480
 and their doctor's doing a blood lab on them.

00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.560
 And they're saying, "Hey, your estrogen is low.

00:25:55.560 --> 00:25:58.120
 "We're gonna put you on some estrogen replacement therapy,

00:25:58.120 --> 00:25:59.880
 "hormone replacement therapy."

00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:01.760
 A, what are they measuring?

00:26:01.760 --> 00:26:04.520
 'Cause obviously we have not just,

00:26:04.520 --> 00:26:07.120
 there's three different metabolites of estrogen,

00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:10.000
 the estrone, estradiol, and estriol.

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:12.240
 Are they just not measuring the right one

00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.560
 or exactly what is happening there

00:26:14.560 --> 00:26:17.960
 that women are being told they need estrogen postmenopausal?

00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:23.000
 - One problem is that they measure it in the serum

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.680
 rather than the whole blood.

00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:30.320
 Being fairly oil soluble,

00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:35.080
 the steroids tend to stay inside cells,

00:26:35.080 --> 00:26:36.980
 even red blood cells,

00:26:38.840 --> 00:26:41.080
 progesterone the same problem.

00:26:41.080 --> 00:26:45.280
 They throw away most of the blood components,

00:26:45.280 --> 00:26:48.560
 most of the progesterone and estrogen,

00:26:48.560 --> 00:26:52.280
 and then measure what's left over,

00:26:52.280 --> 00:26:57.280
 which is a minor part of the blood steroid content.

00:26:57.280 --> 00:27:05.320
 But the rest of the body, the same thing exists.

00:27:05.320 --> 00:27:10.320
 The steroids tend to stay inside cells.

00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:12.280
 That's where they're active.

00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:18.760
 When your progesterone level declines,

00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:23.760
 all of those enzymes that promote estrogen,

00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:30.280
 the things that remove the water-soluble detoxifying units

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:38.200
 such as sulfuric acid and glucuronic acid,

00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:42.920
 those are the product of detoxifying estrogen.

00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:46.600
 If your progesterone is low,

00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:51.980
 those enzymes fail to detoxify it.

00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:58.240
 If your progesterone is low,

00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:03.240
 the hydroxylase and oxidase enzymes add,

00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:15.880
 they reduce turning estrogen into estradiol

00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:23.480
 and eventually estriol can enter

00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.800
 that same process and become estradiol.

00:28:30.800 --> 00:28:34.280
 - So Ray, just for the listener,

00:28:34.280 --> 00:28:36.400
 can you kind of differentiate

00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.600
 between the three different estrogens

00:28:38.600 --> 00:28:41.360
 and which one is more potent

00:28:41.360 --> 00:28:44.560
 and which one is most blood,

00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:46.680
 what most doctors are measuring?

00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:48.920
 Can you kind of differentiate what each one is

00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:51.480
 and talk about them?

00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:56.480
 - Estradiol is considered to be about 10 times as positive

00:28:56.800 --> 00:28:59.480
 as potent as estrone,

00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.400
 but really that depends on your general health

00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:05.200
 and amount of progesterone.

00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:10.200
 And it's about three or four times as active as estriol.

00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:16.800
 But they're all interchangeable.

00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:21.800
 It just takes a bigger dose of either estrone

00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:27.400
 or estriol to have exactly the same effect as estradiol.

00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:34.120
 - So my understanding is that while in your youth,

00:29:34.120 --> 00:29:36.200
 you have more estradiol.

00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.760
 And then I was understanding as you go through menopause,

00:29:39.760 --> 00:29:43.340
 it's estrone that is more potent in your system

00:29:43.340 --> 00:29:45.160
 or is that not correct?

00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:52.600
 - It increases with aging, but the measurements

00:29:52.600 --> 00:29:55.360
 have all been done in the blood,

00:29:55.360 --> 00:30:00.360
 which very little to do with the actual tissue exposure

00:30:00.360 --> 00:30:05.880
 to the effect of estrogen.

00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:10.320
 Because with aging, your progesterone goes down

00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:15.320
 and the estrogen increasingly stays inside cells

00:30:15.320 --> 00:30:20.320
 and intensifies its activity.

00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:28.120
 When you seem to have disappearance of estrogen and menopause,

00:30:28.120 --> 00:30:31.080
 if you add progesterone,

00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:36.080
 suddenly you can measure a normal amount of estrogen

00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:41.760
 as it's leaving the inside of the cells

00:30:42.280 --> 00:30:47.280
 being detoxified and carried to the kidneys for excretion.

00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:54.480
 That shows that the progesterone is able to mobilize it

00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:01.040
 out of your cells in a detoxified form.

00:31:01.040 --> 00:31:04.240
 - Okay, so essentially what you're saying is,

00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.360
 like during youth, women are producing obviously estrogen

00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:09.160
 and then they're also producing progesterone

00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.040
 because they're ovulating and having a cycle

00:31:11.040 --> 00:31:14.280
 and that increased amount of progesterone

00:31:14.280 --> 00:31:17.800
 is helping the estrogen stay in the blood

00:31:17.800 --> 00:31:19.160
 so that it's more measurable.

00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.800
 That's why obviously in your youth you have a higher amount

00:31:21.800 --> 00:31:25.480
 and then as they age and you produce less progesterone

00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.280
 then the estrogen tends to stay in the tissue

00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:30.520
 and on a blood lab it obviously will show you have none

00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:32.760
 when in fact you might have quite a bit,

00:31:32.760 --> 00:31:35.120
 but because you are lacking in progesterone,

00:31:35.120 --> 00:31:38.480
 it shows that you are obviously gonna be low in both.

00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:39.880
 Is that kind of what happens?

00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:44.880
 - Yeah, around the age of 35 to 38,

00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.720
 the measurable estrogen is at its peak

00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:54.720
 and that's an age at which progesterone begins to decline.

00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:01.080
 There's still some monthly progesterone coming

00:32:01.080 --> 00:32:06.080
 out of the ovaries up until the first missed period.

00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:11.200
 At first missed period, there's absolutely no progesterone

00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:15.720
 production is noticeable after the ovaries.

00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.160
 And that means that's when the estrogens

00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:24.600
 which were already at their peak in the late thirties,

00:32:24.600 --> 00:32:30.880
 it suddenly fails to be neutralized by the estrogen

00:32:32.760 --> 00:32:37.040
 and it fails to be mobilized into the bloodstream.

00:32:37.040 --> 00:32:41.800
 So at the approaching menopause and following it,

00:32:41.800 --> 00:32:47.800
 the worse the symptoms are the lower the progesterone is

00:32:47.800 --> 00:32:53.120
 but the more active the effects of estrogen are.

00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:57.000
 That the same women who are attending to miscarry

00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:02.000
 and to have bad PMS symptoms are generally the ones

00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.680
 that have the problem menopause.

00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:10.680
 They're the chronically low progesterone,

00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:12.120
 high estrogen people.

00:33:12.120 --> 00:33:19.160
 And the same people that sold the DES to protect pregnancy

00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:28.680
 that they found preventing or relieving menopause

00:33:30.840 --> 00:33:35.840
 was at the next best place to market estrogen.

00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:40.920
 And so they are the ones that created the idea

00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:46.640
 that menopause constitutes an estrogen deficient state.

00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:57.720
 Before the pharmaceutical industry caught on to estrogen,

00:34:00.560 --> 00:34:05.560
 the old age condition was shown to be a state

00:34:05.560 --> 00:34:13.760
 of residual unopposed estrogen activity.

00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:21.520
 The whole doctrine of menopause has estrogen deficiency

00:34:21.520 --> 00:34:26.840
 that can be traced to the marketing of estrogen.

00:34:28.680 --> 00:34:31.560
 So essentially the marketing, and like I said,

00:34:31.560 --> 00:34:33.960
 we've been kind of talking about the DES.

00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.880
 It's a mouthful to pronounce that word.

00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:39.080
 So we'll refer to it as DES,

00:34:39.080 --> 00:34:42.880
 but it was a synthetic female form of estrogen

00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:45.960
 back in the 1940s that was used for miscarriages

00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:48.880
 and premature labor and complications during pregnancy.

00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:51.800
 And then they realized it didn't do any of those things

00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.880
 and they ended up, it actually was making things worse.

00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:57.720
 And not only that, that they have since studied

00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:01.160
 a lot of these women that were on DES

00:35:01.160 --> 00:35:03.400
 during that 30 years of time period that we used it.

00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:05.600
 And now they're showing that their children

00:35:05.600 --> 00:35:07.840
 are having all sorts of issues.

00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.000
 Even the children of children of DES women

00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.640
 are showing that they have a lot of different symptoms

00:35:13.640 --> 00:35:17.800
 and issues related to taking this synthetic estrogen.

00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:21.240
 - Yeah, anything that happens during gestation

00:35:21.240 --> 00:35:25.320
 changes your whole developmental course.

00:35:26.200 --> 00:35:31.200
 And your developmental course involves all kinds

00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:35.320
 of epigenetic so-called processes

00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.400
 that can be passed on for generations.

00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:39.240
 - Right.

00:35:39.240 --> 00:35:42.720
 So do you think, just going off on this other tangent,

00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:45.600
 all these women that are on fertility medications

00:35:45.600 --> 00:35:49.120
 or fertility pills and fertility as,

00:35:49.120 --> 00:35:51.000
 do you think that's going to have an effect

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.000
 on these children that were born

00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.280
 with fertility medications?

00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.440
 - Born with what?

00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:03.440
 - That were basically being produced either with IVF

00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.200
 or some sort of medications that were used.

00:36:06.200 --> 00:36:10.840
 - Oh yeah, they've already demonstrated

00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:13.400
 that there are differences depending

00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:16.360
 on how the fertilization is done.

00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:23.440
 The whole process, other than the normal,

00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:28.440
 in vivo fertilization, everything that happens

00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:36.440
 changes at the faith of the organism in some way.

00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:38.800
 - Right, right.

00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.880
 So I think that we kind of just wanted to touch on this

00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:46.080
 because DES was used, I think, for 30 years.

00:36:46.080 --> 00:36:47.760
 And I think after about 10, they realized

00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.360
 it wasn't doing what they said it was supposed to be doing,

00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:51.920
 but they continued to prescribe it

00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:54.480
 for decades afterwards.

00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.840
 And they don't anymore, obviously, because it's toxic.

00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.640
 But when things get caught up into the medical industry,

00:37:01.640 --> 00:37:06.640
 sometimes the human's best interests aren't put into effect.

00:37:06.640 --> 00:37:11.840
 - They continue to use it in men to treat prostate cancer.

00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:16.520
 And that's an interesting sideline.

00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:23.800
 When the prostate-specific antigen came on the market

00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:29.160
 as a way to diagnose developing prostate cancer,

00:37:29.160 --> 00:37:34.160
 suddenly the number of cases diagnosed increased tremendously.

00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:42.160
 And within that year and the following year,

00:37:42.160 --> 00:37:47.760
 the deaths from prostate cancer increased

00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.760
 by about 50%, showing that diagnosing the prostate cancer

00:37:52.760 --> 00:38:01.360
 had a very close connection to dying from prostate cancer.

00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:07.600
 And after the late 1990s, a lot of doctors advocated

00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:17.800
 watchful waiting, not treating prostate cancer

00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:23.400
 because someone did a survey at a convention of specialists.

00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:26.120
 They were asked what they would do

00:38:26.120 --> 00:38:29.760
 if they had a diagnosis of prostate cancer.

00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:35.880
 They were treating it primarily with DES, huge doses.

00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:41.200
 And most of the specialists in treating prostate cancer

00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.160
 with estrogen said they would do nothing

00:38:44.160 --> 00:38:46.800
 if it was their own case.

00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.800
 But it took a while for them to drop the practice

00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:56.080
 of killing their patients with DES.

00:38:56.080 --> 00:39:01.080
 And there was never any scientific basis whatsoever

00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:02.880
 for its use.

00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:07.240
 Actually, estrogen promotes prostate cancer

00:39:07.240 --> 00:39:10.280
 and testosterone is protected.

00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:14.960
 The men with the highest lifelong testosterone

00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:18.080
 has the least risk of prostate cancer.

00:39:18.080 --> 00:39:22.280
 - Yeah, I know we've kind of talked about this

00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.000
 'cause my father recently got diagnosed

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.440
 with prostate cancer and the common treatment

00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:31.800
 is to chemically castrate them

00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:34.640
 by lowering their testosterone to zero.

00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:36.960
 And that's their common belief now is that,

00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.840
 'cause it's thought of that it's a testosterone issue

00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.960
 is causing the prostate cancer

00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:44.400
 when in fact it's isn't it the testosterone

00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.360
 is being converted to estrogen

00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:48.960
 that is causing the prostate cancer.

00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.400
 And they still don't even recognize that,

00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:54.680
 which is super bizarre to me.

00:39:54.680 --> 00:39:59.680
 - That was known scientifically about 60 years ago,

00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:06.600
 but because of the investment in DES and estrogen,

00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:11.560
 those things just never got talked about.

00:40:11.560 --> 00:40:13.840
 - Right, I guess the big question is,

00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:16.000
 'cause I've certainly had conversations

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.120
 with medical doctors who think estrogen

00:40:18.120 --> 00:40:22.000
 is the greatest gift since sliced bread.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.400
 And if you Google and you go into PubMed,

00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:26.920
 you can certainly find some studies

00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:30.480
 showing there's benefit with estrogen therapies

00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:31.960
 and you can talk to some women,

00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:33.880
 especially postmenopausal or doing that,

00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:36.320
 have taken estrogen and they feel better.

00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:39.520
 So what is actually happening to a woman

00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:41.160
 who gets onto estrogen therapy and says,

00:40:41.160 --> 00:40:43.000
 "Oh, I feel better now."

00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:47.760
 - It's a brain excite and several women

00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.160
 who decided they wanted to withdraw

00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:55.960
 from estrogen therapy when they would stop it,

00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:00.280
 they would feel lethargic and would go back on it.

00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.600
 But I suggested drinking coffee

00:41:04.600 --> 00:41:08.560
 and that was enough to give them the feeling

00:41:08.560 --> 00:41:13.560
 that they wanted, it's just the excitatory brain action

00:41:13.560 --> 00:41:18.240
 that convinces women that they're energized

00:41:18.240 --> 00:41:20.720
 and feeling better.

00:41:20.720 --> 00:41:22.560
 - Right, and isn't estrogen,

00:41:22.560 --> 00:41:24.840
 I mean, what is its association with,

00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.840
 I mean, isn't it, it increases some level of lipolysis,

00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:31.840
 doesn't it?

00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:34.800
 Isn't it there's some sort of connection with that

00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:35.640
 and with insulin?

00:41:35.640 --> 00:41:37.920
 Can you kind of talk about that real quick

00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.060
 where insulin and estrogen are connected?

00:41:40.060 --> 00:41:43.120
 - The insulin connection?

00:41:43.120 --> 00:41:43.960
 - Yes.

00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:49.920
 - In the history of oral contraceptives,

00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:54.120
 that was constantly a problem.

00:41:54.120 --> 00:42:00.520
 Fairly early saw that estrogen created insulin resistance

00:42:01.520 --> 00:42:06.520
 and they believed that that would lead to diabetes,

00:42:06.520 --> 00:42:11.080
 among other things.

00:42:11.080 --> 00:42:15.560
 And so if you look at it from the viewpoint

00:42:15.560 --> 00:42:20.560
 of adding estrogen as a contraceptive,

00:42:20.560 --> 00:42:27.240
 it seems to be insulin and tightness in some ways.

00:42:30.040 --> 00:42:34.280
 But it simulates insulin production

00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:40.600
 and there's all kinds of conflicting evidence

00:42:40.600 --> 00:42:46.720
 that only makes sense.

00:42:46.720 --> 00:42:48.800
 If you look at the context,

00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:54.880
 being pregnant or the process of getting pregnant

00:42:57.600 --> 00:43:00.600
 the time of months that you're exposed to it

00:43:00.600 --> 00:43:04.260
 and the tissue you're looking at,

00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:13.760
 the familiar fat hips and thighs are well-recognized

00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:20.080
 as directly responding to estrogen increases

00:43:23.640 --> 00:43:28.640
 the conversion of sugar and protein and free fatty acids

00:43:28.640 --> 00:43:34.120
 in the deep hole of fat tissue,

00:43:34.120 --> 00:43:39.120
 concentrated around the hips and thighs mostly

00:43:39.120 --> 00:43:44.600
 and definitely not in the upper body, arms and face

00:43:44.600 --> 00:43:51.200
 and an excess of cortisol or other glucocorticoid

00:43:52.200 --> 00:43:57.200
 as the reverse effect increasing fat in the belly,

00:43:57.200 --> 00:44:03.240
 chest and back and face,

00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:05.460
 just the opposite of the estrogen.

00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:10.120
 But in both of these cases,

00:44:10.120 --> 00:44:15.120
 they are acting as pro insulin increasing the activity

00:44:18.560 --> 00:44:22.840
 of insulin in those tissues

00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:27.840
 and a major function of insulin is to lay down fat

00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:35.480
 to store glycogen and fat in the adipose tissue

00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:39.140
 and glycogen in the liver.

00:44:39.140 --> 00:44:45.040
 So you have to talk about what you mean

00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:50.040
 by insulin resistance and that really isn't a very good concept

00:44:50.040 --> 00:44:57.120
 because every tissue you look at,

00:44:57.120 --> 00:45:01.960
 it's going to have its own particular meaning.

00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:08.680
 - Right, so going into the context of insulin

00:45:08.680 --> 00:45:11.960
 and I'm just gonna, I'm going off on many tangents right now

00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:16.960
 because why not, obviously insulin is the hormone

00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:20.580
 that everybody associates with blood sugar

00:45:20.580 --> 00:45:23.920
 and essentially facilitates glucose getting into the cell

00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:26.640
 which I'm not really sure if that's exactly what it's done

00:45:26.640 --> 00:45:29.920
 but maybe go into a little detail about

00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:31.960
 because insulin is such an important thing

00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:34.080
 especially when we go into talk about diabetes,

00:45:34.080 --> 00:45:36.280
 it's just totally correlated there.

00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:37.640
 Can you just talk about a little bit

00:45:37.640 --> 00:45:40.380
 about what actually insulin does

00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:44.720
 and what is happening in the diabetic state?

00:45:44.720 --> 00:45:47.220
 Is it really result of insulin resistance

00:45:47.220 --> 00:45:49.020
 or is there something else going on?

00:45:49.020 --> 00:45:58.760
 - If you isolate the pancreas cells

00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:03.900
 and estrogen is a stimulant to them,

00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:10.560
 progesterone can stimulate that

00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:13.720
 but it's more likely to stimulate glucagon.

00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:18.360
 But once you get out in the organism,

00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:23.560
 you have to look at all the other things

00:46:23.560 --> 00:46:26.160
 each of the hormones is doing

00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:31.160
 and everyone seems to forget that estrogen shifts you

00:46:32.540 --> 00:46:36.080
 to a fat oxidizing condition

00:46:36.080 --> 00:46:41.080
 in which you have to do something else

00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:47.520
 with any sugar, the estrogen tends to inhibit

00:46:47.520 --> 00:46:52.780
 the oxidation of sugar and favors oxidizing fat

00:46:52.780 --> 00:46:59.280
 but that leaves the sugar possibly to be disposed of

00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:04.440
 as stored fat. Under the influence of estrogen,

00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:10.140
 a normal woman, some of the most of the studies say

00:47:10.140 --> 00:47:13.380
 that women have about three times

00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:16.640
 as much growth hormone as men.

00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:23.480
 And one study using a different technique said

00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:28.000
 it's actually 80 times as much as men.

00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:33.920
 And if estrogen is supposed to be anabolic for bone

00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:41.520
 and it is associated with huge excesses of growth hormone

00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:47.240
 which is also supposedly anabolic to bone,

00:47:47.240 --> 00:47:53.420
 then why is it that women have much smaller bones than men do?

00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:00.160
 And one of the functions of growth hormone

00:48:00.160 --> 00:48:04.040
 is to antagonize insulin

00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:08.040
 and to increase free fatty acids.

00:48:08.040 --> 00:48:13.040
 And so estrogen shifting oxidation

00:48:13.040 --> 00:48:15.320
 to lipids away from sugar,

00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:21.840
 it is also lipolytic breaking down fat to burn

00:48:23.640 --> 00:48:26.540
 or taking it from your diet to burn.

00:48:26.540 --> 00:48:34.520
 So it's providing fatty acids to be oxidized

00:48:34.520 --> 00:48:42.440
 partly by the super high amount of growth hormone

00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:48.000
 blocking insulin, increasing free fatty acids in the blood.

00:48:48.940 --> 00:48:53.940
 And an excess of free fatty acids is always associated

00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:55.180
 with diabetes.

00:48:55.180 --> 00:49:01.960
 And when you look at estrogen as a very profitable product,

00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:08.140
 you have to forget all of these very big effects

00:49:08.140 --> 00:49:16.680
 during the development of birth control pills,

00:49:16.680 --> 00:49:19.480
 we were recognizing the tendency of estrogen

00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:22.240
 to produce diabetes,

00:49:22.240 --> 00:49:25.640
 but everything which increases your free fatty acids

00:49:25.640 --> 00:49:31.840
 is the real motor behind insulin,

00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:34.800
 behind diabetes.

00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:39.560
 - Right, so essentially when the diabetic state

00:49:39.560 --> 00:49:42.280
 is often referred to having hyperglycemia

00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:43.680
 or high blood sugar,

00:49:43.680 --> 00:49:46.720
 that's the association you hear in the medical industry.

00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:51.200
 But what you're saying is it's really an abundance

00:49:51.200 --> 00:49:55.080
 of free fatty acids in the blood essentially,

00:49:55.080 --> 00:49:58.040
 and they are inhibiting the sugar.

00:49:58.040 --> 00:50:00.280
 And that's why it's staying in the blood

00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:02.480
 and you actually see hyperglycemia.

00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:09.400
 - Yeah, it's called the Randle effect

00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:16.240
 the fact that fatty acids blocks the ability

00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:18.920
 to oxidize glucose.

00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:28.040
 The highly unsaturated fatty acids are actually the ones

00:50:28.040 --> 00:50:34.360
 that are doing the most blocking of the glucose oxidation.

00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:40.360
 And here's the food industry going back

00:50:41.200 --> 00:50:45.760
 to the need to dispose of soybean oil

00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:49.320
 because they couldn't sell it for a paint stock.

00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:54.320
 And then the shifts 30 years later to the fish oil

00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:57.400
 and the N-3 series,

00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:01.840
 that happened to coincide with the intervention

00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:06.200
 of the Environmental Protection Agency

00:51:06.200 --> 00:51:11.080
 that forced the fish industry to stop polluting

00:51:11.080 --> 00:51:16.080
 the bays and surrounding land areas with dumps of fish fat.

00:51:16.080 --> 00:51:23.160
 And right at the time the EFA told them to stop polluting

00:51:23.160 --> 00:51:27.480
 with fish fat that came on the market as a health food.

00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:32.040
 - Well, that sounds about right for our community

00:51:32.040 --> 00:51:33.840
 that they've done it a few times,

00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.480
 but essentially you're saying

00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:37.040
 that's how the fish oil got started.

00:51:37.040 --> 00:51:38.920
 We basically had a toxic ingredient

00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:39.760
 we didn't know what to do with,

00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:43.760
 so let's encapsulate it and sell it as something good for you.

00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:49.520
 - Yeah, that was how the N-6,

00:51:49.520 --> 00:51:52.400
 so-called essential fatty acids got established.

00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:57.760
 They had already been shown not to be essential

00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:02.760
 and in fact to block oxygen, glucose oxidation.

00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:09.240
 So around by 1950 it was accepted

00:52:09.240 --> 00:52:13.360
 that they were anti metabolic and dangerous.

00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:18.360
 But then the seed oil industry took over the campaign

00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:26.520
 and showed that by lowering cholesterol,

00:52:26.520 --> 00:52:30.560
 supposedly eating the essential PUFA

00:52:30.560 --> 00:52:33.960
 would protect against heart disease.

00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:38.080
 Took about 15 years before they saw that

00:52:38.080 --> 00:52:40.800
 it was increasing death from heart disease.

00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:46.920
 - Right, so I'm basically talking about PUFAs

00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.040
 and basically how they,

00:52:49.040 --> 00:52:50.400
 I think they're the big problem

00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:52.200
 when it comes to the Randle cycle, correct?

00:52:52.200 --> 00:52:54.560
 They're the ones that are more inhibiting the glucose

00:52:54.560 --> 00:52:57.680
 to be able to inhibit glucose oxidation

00:52:57.680 --> 00:52:59.160
 and it's primarily PUFA.

00:52:59.160 --> 00:53:00.000
 PUFA is-

00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:05.520
 - And they're very closely connected to estrogenicity.

00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:12.440
 - They, the N-3, DHA, EPA and DHA,

00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:24.200
 I think are the two that are most increased

00:53:24.200 --> 00:53:27.800
 in the presence of estrogen.

00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:34.280
 And they are released

00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:39.280
 that their effect is increased by estrogen

00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:47.880
 and their action increases the effects of estrogen.

00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:54.360
 They themselves are estrogenic,

00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:58.960
 but estrogen increases our tendency

00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:01.880
 to store them and respond to them.

00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:04.440
 - Okay, so essentially the toxic effects

00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:08.240
 of either the N-3 and the N-6,

00:54:08.240 --> 00:54:10.360
 the EPA, DHA, fish oils,

00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:14.000
 and also the seed oils that came later,

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:18.560
 those are estrogenic and have estrogenic response,

00:54:18.560 --> 00:54:21.320
 but also estrogen can increase the toxic effects

00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:23.080
 of those oils, correct?

00:54:23.080 --> 00:54:26.400
 - Yeah, and that whole line of research

00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.400
 started in the 1930s.

00:54:31.600 --> 00:54:36.600
 The animals were getting sick

00:54:36.600 --> 00:54:41.160
 when they got too much essential fatty acid.

00:54:41.160 --> 00:54:44.440
 And it turned out that they were being put

00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:47.880
 into a highly estrogenic state.

00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:52.880
 And the seed oil industry just defended itself

00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:58.240
 by saying that that's simply a vitamin E deficiency state

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.920
 and has nothing to do with the estrogen.

00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:06.160
 But in fact, the vitamin E deficiency

00:55:06.160 --> 00:55:12.440
 letting the PUFA accumulate is estrogenic in itself.

00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:17.960
 So right at the beginning,

00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:22.640
 they were seeing the connection between PUFA,

00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:25.280
 vitamin E deficiency and estrogen,

00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:30.280
 but that didn't have a product to be promoted.

00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:34.600
 So it was dropped out of the culture.

00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:38.680
 - So going back,

00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:40.680
 so we're gonna like take a little turn again,

00:55:40.680 --> 00:55:45.680
 going back to estrogen and women that are being told

00:55:45.680 --> 00:55:48.720
 that they are estrogen deficient

00:55:48.720 --> 00:55:51.600
 or are being told in menopause that they need estrogen,

00:55:51.600 --> 00:55:53.680
 or even younger women.

00:55:53.680 --> 00:55:56.880
 I've even heard young women say on their blood labs

00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:00.200
 that they are low estrogen and they are all,

00:56:00.200 --> 00:56:01.840
 all those people that I know of,

00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:04.200
 they're usually having very estrogen dominant issues.

00:56:04.200 --> 00:56:07.680
 So what would you advise to them

00:56:07.680 --> 00:56:12.200
 is the best approach to correct this estrogen deficiency,

00:56:12.200 --> 00:56:15.240
 which was probably more of a progesterone deficiency,

00:56:15.240 --> 00:56:17.240
 but what would you suggest to them?

00:56:17.240 --> 00:56:20.960
 - Usually they're hypothyroid

00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:25.960
 and sometimes various nutritional deficiencies

00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:31.440
 are behind it, vitamin E and calcium, for example.

00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:38.600
 But the first thing to be corrected

00:56:38.600 --> 00:56:44.080
 is to check your body temperature, oxygen consumption,

00:56:44.080 --> 00:56:49.240
 CO2 production and basically your metabolic rate

00:56:50.640 --> 00:56:55.400
 because if your thyroid function is low,

00:56:55.400 --> 00:57:01.280
 you can't properly use your cholesterol

00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:06.480
 and vitamin A in any way,

00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.600
 but especially for the production of progesterone.

00:57:09.600 --> 00:57:16.280
 Your ability to metabolize vitamin A in hypothyroidism

00:57:17.240 --> 00:57:22.240
 is impaired and cholesterol is massively.

00:57:22.240 --> 00:57:28.480
 In the 1930, I think it was 1936,

00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:34.680
 there were studies showing a graph

00:57:34.680 --> 00:57:39.680
 in which the cholesterol level in the blood

00:57:39.680 --> 00:57:45.280
 rises directly as the metabolic rate or hypothyroidism

00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:50.280
 increases a mirror image.

00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:56.600
 And then when they add a thyroid supplement,

00:57:56.600 --> 00:58:00.480
 the cholesterol does exactly the same thing,

00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:05.480
 a mirror image of the rising thyroid metabolic rate

00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:09.200
 and the falling cholesterol.

00:58:10.640 --> 00:58:15.640
 It's just one of the simplest reactions.

00:58:15.640 --> 00:58:21.720
 If you're measuring the progesterone coming out of the ovary,

00:58:21.720 --> 00:58:27.520
 assuming the person or animal has adequate vitamin A

00:58:27.520 --> 00:58:33.440
 and thyroid, as you measure the cholesterol production

00:58:36.120 --> 00:58:40.760
 in the ovary, if you increase the amount of cholesterol

00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:43.360
 in the blood going into the ovary,

00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:47.160
 you directly increase the amount of progesterone coming out.

00:58:47.160 --> 00:58:53.480
 So elevated cholesterol essentially means

00:58:53.480 --> 00:58:59.160
 a deficiency of progesterone possibly caused

00:58:59.160 --> 00:59:04.840
 by a deficiency of vitamin A and thyroid.

00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.360
 - Okay, so yeah, so just to kind of summarize,

00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:11.480
 your steroidal hormones, or all of ours,

00:59:11.480 --> 00:59:15.920
 are produced via cholesterol, thyroid, and vitamin A.

00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:18.520
 And a deficiency in any of those

00:59:18.520 --> 00:59:23.520
 can create some hormonal deficiencies.

00:59:23.520 --> 00:59:28.000
 - Yeah, and the slowdown of your metabolic rate

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:33.000
 slows your liver's ability and inclination

00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:38.640
 to detoxify estrogen.

00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:43.640
 So again, you get not such a tight mirror image,

00:59:43.640 --> 00:59:50.640
 but a basic mirror image of rising estrogen

00:59:50.640 --> 00:59:56.520
 with falling thyroid function.

00:59:56.520 --> 01:00:00.560
 - So that's why so many women or men

01:00:00.560 --> 01:00:05.280
 in the hypothyroid state are having hormonal issues

01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.440
 showing up with high cholesterol,

01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:11.240
 and certainly in a world where veganism

01:00:11.240 --> 01:00:14.760
 is becoming quite popular again,

01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:17.660
 you can see why there's so many issues.

01:00:17.660 --> 01:00:24.000
 - Low cholesterol is a very serious problem.

01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:28.200
 - Yeah, what would create someone to have low cholesterol?

01:00:28.200 --> 01:00:30.780
 (upbeat music)

01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:34.920
 - I hope you're enjoying this episode so far.

01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:37.320
 It's just so jam-packed with amazing information.

01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:39.800
 Ray is just so incredible.

01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:43.040
 And he shares his information so freely,

01:00:43.040 --> 01:00:45.680
 which I think is just incredible.

01:00:45.680 --> 01:00:49.800
 And Kate messaged me saying that she really wants

01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.280
 to do a monthly podcast with him on different topics.

01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.040
 So hopefully he will do that with us.

01:00:55.040 --> 01:00:58.840
 But I just wanted to quickly jump in

01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:03.840
 and talk about Saturée's new organic beef liver capsules

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:07.020
 and our pure oyster capsules.

01:01:07.020 --> 01:01:09.520
 So we actually did the first drop of them last week

01:01:09.520 --> 01:01:11.400
 and they sold out within an hour,

01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:13.840
 which was just incredible.

01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:15.680
 But we've totally restocked them now.

01:01:15.680 --> 01:01:17.080
 We had so many people messaging me going,

01:01:17.080 --> 01:01:18.980
 "Kitty, Kitty, when are they gonna be back in stock?"

01:01:18.980 --> 01:01:21.960
 But we fully restocked now, so you shouldn't miss out.

01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:24.560
 But we just get such amazing feedback

01:01:24.560 --> 01:01:27.160
 on our liver capsules.

01:01:27.160 --> 01:01:28.440
 And look, if you love liver

01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:31.600
 and you can find good fresh beef liver, absolutely eat it.

01:01:31.600 --> 01:01:33.880
 I think it's quite an acquired taste.

01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:35.920
 And I think that everyone should be eating

01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:36.960
 fresh liver and oysters.

01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:39.760
 But if you're like me, who hates liver,

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.240
 or you just can't get it, or you can't get the oysters,

01:01:42.240 --> 01:01:45.080
 or it's just not that convenient for you to take,

01:01:45.080 --> 01:01:48.460
 our Saturée A+ liver capsules, organic liver capsules,

01:01:48.460 --> 01:01:50.960
 are non-defatted, they're freeze-dried, additive-free,

01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.420
 and they're 100% Australian organic liver

01:01:54.420 --> 01:01:56.440
 from grass-fed cows.

01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:58.960
 Now, liver naturally contains a broad spectrum

01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:01.840
 of nutrients, including preformed vitamin A,

01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:06.040
 B vitamins, copper, CoQ10, iron, and choline.

01:02:06.040 --> 01:02:10.480
 And our oyster tablets, oyster capsules, I should say,

01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.960
 sourced, our oysters are sourced from Tasmania,

01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:15.920
 so the beautiful, clean waters of Tasmania.

01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:18.840
 And we actually freeze-dry them ourselves.

01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:22.080
 So that just helps to retain more of the nutrients.

01:02:22.080 --> 01:02:24.160
 So these are equally nutrient-dense.

01:02:24.160 --> 01:02:28.000
 They're loaded with zinc, B12, manganese, selenium,

01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.280
 and vitamin D, and copper.

01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:34.800
 So they're just an amazing, amazing superfood.

01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:37.960
 So I'll drop the link in the show notes

01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:41.220
 for you to purchase them, as well as a discount code

01:02:41.220 --> 01:02:43.560
 that will give you just a small discount.

01:02:43.560 --> 01:02:46.700
 So I hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

01:02:46.700 --> 01:02:47.860
 Let's get back to it.

01:02:47.860 --> 01:02:51.120
 (bright upbeat music)

01:02:51.120 --> 01:02:55.360
 And I have seen, and this seems to be something that has,

01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:57.840
 I know somebody that went through some cancer treatment,

01:02:57.840 --> 01:03:01.680
 and now due to the radiation, they have a heart issue,

01:03:01.680 --> 01:03:03.000
 and due to that heart issue,

01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:06.200
 their doctors want them to have cholesterol, like 100.

01:03:06.200 --> 01:03:09.920
 Because I guess they're afraid of some sort

01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:11.840
 of artery blockage because they have a heart issue.

01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:15.520
 So is there any really scientific understanding of that?

01:03:15.520 --> 01:03:16.480
 Is that safe?

01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:21.480
 - I knew about 40 years ago,

01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:25.980
 a husband and wife, medical doctors,

01:03:25.980 --> 01:03:30.980
 who had, I think it was 85 and 120 levels of cholesterol

01:03:30.980 --> 01:03:38.320
 that they bragged about from eating a vegan diet.

01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:43.460
 I asked about them just a few years after that.

01:03:43.460 --> 01:03:45.000
 They were in their 30s,

01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:46.320
 and they were both dead.

01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:52.880
 - So obviously low cholesterol is not particularly good,

01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:56.520
 but is there any scientific backing for,

01:03:56.520 --> 01:03:58.120
 'cause I've seen it in a lot of people

01:03:58.120 --> 01:04:00.560
 that have been diagnosed with some sort of heart issue,

01:04:00.560 --> 01:04:04.680
 their doctors really want them to keep very low cholesterol.

01:04:04.680 --> 01:04:06.960
 Is there some scientific backing for that,

01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:09.320
 or is that just their, like-

01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:11.480
 - There are thousands and thousands

01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:14.680
 of medical publications you can find

01:04:14.680 --> 01:04:19.680
 on a pet net, but they're all wrong.

01:04:19.680 --> 01:04:25.480
 - Well, I would probably agree with you with that.

01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:28.960
 So essentially there's no real basis of it.

01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:33.960
 So for those listening and their cholesterol is low,

01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:40.480
 what would the suggestion be to help bring that up

01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:42.480
 to a healthy level?

01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:45.360
 - Irritation in the intestine

01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:50.360
 turns off cholesterol production when it's very intense.

01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:57.640
 It's poisoning both the intestine and liver

01:04:57.640 --> 01:05:00.080
 to the extent that they don't have the energy

01:05:00.080 --> 01:05:02.920
 to make cholesterol.

01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:07.660
 - So you're saying an irritation in the intestines

01:05:07.660 --> 01:05:10.480
 will create low cholesterol.

01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:12.920
 I don't think I've ever heard that before.

01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:17.920
 - A vegan diet, for example, can be so irritating

01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:23.400
 to the liver and intestine, endotoxin rises

01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:28.740
 and will block cholesterol synthesis.

01:05:28.740 --> 01:05:34.720
 - So then again, so if this is happening to someone

01:05:34.720 --> 01:05:36.080
 and they have low cholesterol,

01:05:36.080 --> 01:05:39.920
 and obviously they're probably having some hormonal issues,

01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:44.080
 what would be your top three things to say to them

01:05:44.080 --> 01:05:46.620
 to help improve cholesterol and hormone production?

01:05:46.620 --> 01:05:54.760
 - Orange juice and milk are very helpful

01:05:54.760 --> 01:05:56.740
 to reduce the inflammation.

01:05:56.740 --> 01:06:04.240
 Both of them are very good sources of flavonoids,

01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:07.280
 anti-inflammatory chemicals.

01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:13.540
 And they provide, the sugar is the raw material

01:06:13.540 --> 01:06:19.460
 that you need, but you've got to get the inflammation

01:06:19.460 --> 01:06:22.420
 from them while providing the sugar.

01:06:22.420 --> 01:06:26.040
 - I see, okay.

01:06:26.040 --> 01:06:28.680
 So milk and OJ for the flavonoids,

01:06:28.680 --> 01:06:31.680
 sugar needed to help get the inflammation down.

01:06:31.680 --> 01:06:33.840
 And then what else could they do?

01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:39.100
 - The milk has various anti-inflammatory things.

01:06:39.100 --> 01:06:44.040
 Just keeping a high intake of calcium,

01:06:44.040 --> 01:06:46.400
 it's very important,

01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.400
 but not necessarily just a calcium supplement.

01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:56.440
 - Right, and so you're saying

01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:58.800
 an increase in calcium for inflammation,

01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:03.000
 and because you want to ultimately decrease inflammation

01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:05.620
 to increase cholesterol production.

01:07:05.620 --> 01:07:11.720
 Okay, and since obviously vitamin A is super important,

01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:13.680
 what would you suggest for people to consume

01:07:13.680 --> 01:07:15.840
 to help with that vitamin?

01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:20.840
 - A minimal amount, a necessary amount of thyroid hormone.

01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:28.120
 It's only when you get super high thyroid activity

01:07:30.080 --> 01:07:35.080
 that you can lower the cholesterol below normal.

01:07:35.080 --> 01:07:41.740
 If you don't have enough thyroid

01:07:41.740 --> 01:07:43.840
 for a good liver metabolism,

01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:47.040
 it's one of the things providing the energy

01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:48.500
 to make the cholesterol.

01:07:48.500 --> 01:07:54.200
 - Okay, so I think that's kind of important

01:07:54.200 --> 01:07:58.520
 because if we're talking about low or high cholesterol,

01:07:58.520 --> 01:07:59.760
 thyroid is important.

01:08:00.080 --> 01:08:01.340
 Either way, correct?

01:08:01.340 --> 01:08:06.120
 Okay, and I mean, for somebody that is kind of,

01:08:06.120 --> 01:08:08.960
 for listening, and I mean, what would you suggest,

01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:12.120
 I mean, do you think most people need to be

01:08:12.120 --> 01:08:14.280
 on a additional thyroid support,

01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:18.000
 or can they just improve their overall metabolic health,

01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:20.340
 via food, stress reduction?

01:08:20.340 --> 01:08:25.800
 What are your thoughts for most individuals?

01:08:28.080 --> 01:08:32.520
 - Even though you perfect your diet,

01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:37.480
 there are still going to be the stored PUFA, for example,

01:08:37.480 --> 01:08:41.400
 that will keep blocking your metabolism.

01:08:41.400 --> 01:08:46.400
 So I think it's very important to correct things

01:08:46.400 --> 01:08:48.500
 as quickly as possible,

01:08:48.500 --> 01:08:54.840
 getting gradually onto the right level of thyroid function.

01:08:56.600 --> 01:09:01.600
 And a lot of people wanted to get a good metabolic rate,

01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:07.960
 better than possible.

01:09:07.960 --> 01:09:13.600
 That they want to start back out

01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:20.360
 working ideal level of thyroid,

01:09:20.360 --> 01:09:24.360
 but it takes the body weeks and weeks

01:09:24.360 --> 01:09:29.360
 to adjust every time you raise your T3 level in blood,

01:09:29.360 --> 01:09:37.200
 for example, it will increase your sensitivity to adrenaline.

01:09:37.200 --> 01:09:44.960
 So to prevent the overexcited adrenaline action,

01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:50.320
 it takes weeks of adapting

01:09:50.320 --> 01:09:53.880
 to a slowly increasing level of thyroid.

01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:57.840
 - I see, so is that one of the reasons

01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:02.280
 why some people will take T3 directly,

01:10:02.280 --> 01:10:04.600
 feel super high adrenaline?

01:10:04.600 --> 01:10:06.640
 Is it just they're taking too much?

01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:10.200
 - Yeah, the low thyroid person,

01:10:10.200 --> 01:10:15.520
 I've seen publications that they have 30 times

01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:20.240
 the average daily output of adrenaline,

01:10:20.240 --> 01:10:25.240
 I saw one person with a 40 times normal daily output,

01:10:25.240 --> 01:10:30.960
 just the smallest amount of thyroid supplement,

01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:35.520
 suddenly they start becoming sensitive

01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:38.200
 to that excess of adrenaline.

01:10:38.200 --> 01:10:43.200
 And so you have to take it for a week or two

01:10:43.200 --> 01:10:48.440
 or reach the level that increases your sensitivity,

01:10:48.440 --> 01:10:52.160
 give it time to drop your adrenaline.

01:10:52.160 --> 01:10:56.600
 Really, if you're doing it carefully,

01:10:56.600 --> 01:11:00.720
 you can probably do it in four or five months.

01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:03.160
 - Oh, wow.

01:11:03.160 --> 01:11:05.360
 So for somebody that is in that kind of

01:11:05.360 --> 01:11:08.600
 hyper adrenaline state, 'cause I certainly have seen that

01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:10.680
 when people try to take some sort of thyroid

01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:13.400
 and it just, they feel horrible

01:11:13.400 --> 01:11:16.000
 taking some sort of thyroid supplement.

01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:18.600
 Would you suggest then it's certainly wise to work

01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:23.320
 on their diet first, making sure they have enough energy,

01:11:23.320 --> 01:11:26.680
 protein and so forth before they engage

01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:28.520
 in any sort of thyroid medication?

01:11:28.520 --> 01:11:33.880
 - Magnesium is one of the most important nutrients

01:11:33.880 --> 01:11:39.120
 because when your thyroid function is slow

01:11:39.120 --> 01:11:41.080
 and you're running on adrenaline,

01:11:42.320 --> 01:11:47.320
 these cells are not making ATP quickly

01:11:47.320 --> 01:11:51.560
 in the hypothyroid state.

01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:56.560
 And the ATP is what holds magnesium in your cells.

01:11:56.560 --> 01:12:01.440
 And so the intracellular magnesium

01:12:01.440 --> 01:12:05.520
 is always low in a hypothyroid person.

01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:10.520
 And if you take, sometimes even as a little as a third

01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:15.200
 as a little as a 30 milligram dose of thyroid

01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:19.160
 the person will get heart pains spasms

01:12:19.160 --> 01:12:21.480
 in their coronary arteries.

01:12:21.480 --> 01:12:26.480
 Because if you enliven your whole body,

01:12:26.480 --> 01:12:32.240
 muscles will suck up the available magnesium

01:12:32.240 --> 01:12:39.760
 and make your blood level drop as the thyroid goes up.

01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:44.120
 And so taking a magnesium supplement

01:12:44.120 --> 01:12:48.360
 along with the thyroid will prevent the heart pains

01:12:48.360 --> 01:12:52.920
 and other signs of magnesium deficiency.

01:12:52.920 --> 01:12:55.120
 - I see.

01:12:55.120 --> 01:12:56.640
 And do you have a suggestion?

01:12:56.640 --> 01:12:58.640
 'Cause certainly everyone will now be asking

01:12:58.640 --> 01:13:01.880
 how much magnesium, what type of magnesium?

01:13:01.880 --> 01:13:08.880
 - Milk will provide enough magnesium

01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:10.720
 when you're getting enough calcium.

01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:16.520
 But there are lots of other sources

01:13:16.520 --> 01:13:21.560
 that make magnesium carbonate is good

01:13:21.560 --> 01:13:26.640
 except the physical form of it can irritate the intestine.

01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:31.440
 And so lots of people get headaches

01:13:31.440 --> 01:13:36.200
 and congestion from magnesium supplements.

01:13:38.160 --> 01:13:41.240
 And magnesium glycinate is the only one

01:13:41.240 --> 01:13:44.880
 I haven't heard many people getting headaches from.

01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:50.880
 - And it would just be a hundred, 200 milligrams.

01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:53.280
 Is that kind of the suggestion or-

01:13:53.280 --> 01:13:56.560
 - Yeah, that's enough to make a difference.

01:13:56.560 --> 01:13:58.480
 - Okay.

01:13:58.480 --> 01:14:03.680
 So, and I hope, do you still have time Ray?

01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:06.520
 I know we're a little bit fantastic.

01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:08.560
 Okay, so kind of taking a turn

01:14:08.560 --> 01:14:11.160
 'cause I know a lot of women are still on,

01:14:11.160 --> 01:14:14.040
 hey, I'm going in the menopause.

01:14:14.040 --> 01:14:18.000
 My doctor's again telling me I have low estrogen.

01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:23.000
 For those women, what is the suggested protocol?

01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:25.800
 What would you suggest?

01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:27.760
 Do they need to get on progesterone?

01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:30.280
 Or is it, again, they need to work on their health

01:14:30.280 --> 01:14:34.240
 and supporting their system cholesterol production,

01:14:34.240 --> 01:14:35.640
 maybe thyroid?

01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:38.400
 Like what would be the suggestion to these women

01:14:38.400 --> 01:14:42.200
 that so many of them are coming up and saying,

01:14:42.200 --> 01:14:44.040
 my doctor's saying, I need estrogen?

01:14:44.040 --> 01:14:47.720
 - Yeah, a little bit of everything.

01:14:47.720 --> 01:14:49.800
 Good nutrition,

01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:55.280
 reducing the worst stresses,

01:14:55.280 --> 01:15:01.640
 not necessarily hormonal,

01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:06.680
 but just making your life easier

01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:12.240
 so that you don't have so much burden on your liver.

01:15:12.240 --> 01:15:21.760
 The thyroid, vitamin A, calcium, vitamin D,

01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:27.840
 all of the anti-inflammatory,

01:15:30.560 --> 01:15:34.760
 basically anabolic substances are helpful.

01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:39.400
 - And what about men?

01:15:39.400 --> 01:15:43.160
 Because obviously we know men produce estrogen too,

01:15:43.160 --> 01:15:47.000
 and from what I understand, later in life,

01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:49.800
 men can actually have higher levels of estrogen

01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:51.280
 than even women.

01:15:51.280 --> 01:15:53.720
 So what about that?

01:15:53.720 --> 01:15:57.920
 - The sicker a man is, the higher his estrogen is.

01:15:57.920 --> 01:16:02.920
 And in old age, it's common for a man's estrogen

01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:05.160
 to be higher than a woman's.

01:16:05.160 --> 01:16:08.960
 - What would be the symptoms of that for a man?

01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:16.000
 - Development of fresh tissue is one kind gynecomastia.

01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:21.760
 and a slowing metabolism,

01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:29.920
 emotional changes becoming depressed or anxious.

01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:38.720
 - And with men that have these symptoms,

01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:41.880
 is it safe?

01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.520
 Because obviously you can dose women with progesterone.

01:16:44.520 --> 01:16:47.240
 Is it safe to dose men with progesterone?

01:16:47.240 --> 01:16:54.320
 - Yeah, for acute problems,

01:16:54.600 --> 01:16:58.440
 for example, it's traumatic injury

01:16:58.440 --> 01:17:02.480
 will cause a huge surge of estrogen.

01:17:02.480 --> 01:17:08.720
 And so for any trauma, progesterone is a general

01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:14.040
 antidote to the injury,

01:17:14.040 --> 01:17:17.920
 whether it's burn injury or fracture,

01:17:17.920 --> 01:17:19.360
 concussion or whatever.

01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:26.760
 Migraines, I've used it myself

01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:32.000
 when I unwittingly became hypothyroid

01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:36.280
 from drinking fluoridated water.

01:17:36.280 --> 01:17:43.680
 Big, single dose, maybe as much as 100 milligrams at once,

01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:48.680
 right in the middle of a horrible, horrible migraine,

01:17:51.240 --> 01:17:55.560
 blocked the first pain

01:17:55.560 --> 01:17:59.360
 and then the nausea and the visual effects

01:17:59.360 --> 01:18:02.320
 all within about two or three minutes

01:18:02.320 --> 01:18:07.320
 from maximum migraine to absolute peace and sleepiness

01:18:07.320 --> 01:18:11.800
 in the space of three minutes.

01:18:11.800 --> 01:18:17.120
 It's happened twice at intervals of two or three years.

01:18:18.280 --> 01:18:23.280
 And that's similar to it's effect in epilepsy.

01:18:23.280 --> 01:18:29.960
 Just a week or so ago,

01:18:29.960 --> 01:18:34.640
 and wrote about his son

01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:39.480
 who was having nocturnal seizures every night.

01:18:39.480 --> 01:18:42.560
 And he started taking,

01:18:42.560 --> 01:18:47.560
 I think he said 30 milligrams of progesterone at bedtime.

01:18:48.200 --> 01:18:50.320
 And starting that night,

01:18:50.320 --> 01:18:55.320
 he didn't have another night seizure for about a month,

01:18:55.320 --> 01:18:56.520
 I think it was,

01:18:56.520 --> 01:19:00.120
 but he didn't take his progesterone at bedtime

01:19:00.120 --> 01:19:04.280
 and had a night seizure,

01:19:04.280 --> 01:19:07.840
 but he said it didn't have the after effects

01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:10.200
 that the seizures normally did.

01:19:10.200 --> 01:19:16.480
 But I've known several youngish men

01:19:16.480 --> 01:19:21.480
 who had been diagnosed as clinically epileptic

01:19:21.480 --> 01:19:25.280
 who cured the whole thing with progesterone.

01:19:25.280 --> 01:19:30.440
 - So for men, is it safe to take continually?

01:19:30.440 --> 01:19:33.720
 Is there side effects to possibly taking it for men?

01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:37.360
 - Well, progesterone is unusual in that

01:19:37.360 --> 01:19:41.360
 a dose acts as a primer

01:19:41.360 --> 01:19:44.920
 for your production of your own progesterone.

01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:50.240
 And so for more than 40 years,

01:19:50.240 --> 01:19:54.960
 I've been saying that for progesterone replacement

01:19:54.960 --> 01:19:58.400
 isn't the right idea

01:19:58.400 --> 01:20:01.840
 because one dose of progesterone

01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:05.480
 should stop the symptoms immediately

01:20:05.480 --> 01:20:07.640
 and correct your body

01:20:07.640 --> 01:20:11.880
 so that it makes its own progesterone

01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:16.440
 that activates thyroid function and secretion

01:20:16.440 --> 01:20:21.440
 and helps with reducing whatever stress

01:20:21.440 --> 01:20:28.080
 is initiating the excitatory processes.

01:20:28.080 --> 01:20:32.760
 In arthritis of different kinds,

01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:35.120
 I've seen the same thing.

01:20:35.120 --> 01:20:37.840
 A single dose, for example,

01:20:37.840 --> 01:20:42.480
 a friend said that every afternoon

01:20:42.480 --> 01:20:45.360
 or working at his bench,

01:20:45.360 --> 01:20:48.800
 his knee would swell up.

01:20:48.800 --> 01:20:53.800
 He showed me his knee looked like a pink football.

01:20:53.800 --> 01:20:57.200
 He couldn't see the train itself.

01:20:57.200 --> 01:21:02.760
 It was so painful he couldn't work.

01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:07.760
 And just the application of one bottle

01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:10.840
 of progesterone that we got at the drugstore

01:21:10.840 --> 01:21:14.080
 covering his whole leg.

01:21:14.080 --> 01:21:22.120
 He never had his afternoon arthritis again.

01:21:22.120 --> 01:21:27.240
 And over the next, I guess it was 45 or 50 years,

01:21:27.240 --> 01:21:29.440
 I knew him.

01:21:29.440 --> 01:21:34.120
 He never had arthritis again, just one dose.

01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:40.000
 And our plumber was crippled,

01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:45.160
 could hardly get up the steps one step at a time

01:21:45.160 --> 01:21:46.880
 and said that he was about to retire

01:21:46.880 --> 01:21:51.880
 because his cartilage was crumbled and unrepairable.

01:21:51.880 --> 01:21:57.240
 He gave him a bottle of progesterone,

01:21:57.240 --> 01:22:00.840
 told him to rub it all over his leg.

01:22:00.840 --> 01:22:03.720
 He went out to his truck, put on the progesterone

01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:08.720
 and went about his work about an hour later

01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:13.840
 on one of his trips out to his truck.

01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:17.560
 He came up the steps more quickly

01:22:17.560 --> 01:22:19.960
 and was walking more smoothly.

01:22:19.960 --> 01:22:24.840
 I mentioned, he said he thought it was better.

01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:29.360
 But the next morning, all the work had been done.

01:22:29.360 --> 01:22:31.880
 The next morning, he knocked on the door and said,

01:22:31.880 --> 01:22:34.080
 "I just wanted to show you this."

01:22:34.080 --> 01:22:37.960
 And he ran down the stairs and back up the stairs.

01:22:37.960 --> 01:22:43.000
 And I never gave him any more progesterone,

01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:48.000
 but at first I asked his wife a few months later

01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:53.760
 how his knee was, and there was a long silence.

01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:57.720
 Then she said, "Oh, he did have a bad knee, didn't he?"

01:22:57.720 --> 01:23:01.520
 And about 10 years later, he was still working.

01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:06.440
 And I asked him if he had ever had more trouble with his knee.

01:23:06.440 --> 01:23:08.000
 He had forgotten all about it.

01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:13.040
 It didn't acknowledge that he ever had a knee problem.

01:23:13.040 --> 01:23:15.800
 - Wow.

01:23:15.800 --> 01:23:20.800
 So for most women, certainly that I know,

01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:25.720
 it doesn't seem like a single dose is ever the magic.

01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:28.520
 It seems that they do it continually.

01:23:28.520 --> 01:23:33.160
 So if a woman has to constantly take progesterone--

01:23:33.160 --> 01:23:38.160
 - It means she's hypothyroid or malnourished.

01:23:38.160 --> 01:23:40.720
 - Okay, so essentially what you're saying

01:23:40.720 --> 01:23:42.160
 is someone shouldn't have to.

01:23:42.160 --> 01:23:45.280
 They should be able to take smaller dosages or a big dose

01:23:45.280 --> 01:23:46.920
 or maybe not as often.

01:23:46.920 --> 01:23:48.920
 And if they're properly supported,

01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:51.280
 they shouldn't have to continue using it.

01:23:51.280 --> 01:23:53.400
 - Yeah.

01:23:53.400 --> 01:23:57.840
 - Okay, so for those women that are feeling that,

01:23:57.840 --> 01:24:01.360
 hey, if I don't have my progesterone, I don't feel well,

01:24:01.360 --> 01:24:03.640
 then you're suggesting that it's either,

01:24:03.640 --> 01:24:07.120
 hey, you might need to work on thyroid or taking a thyroid

01:24:07.120 --> 01:24:10.160
 or making sure you get more calories or nutrition.

01:24:10.160 --> 01:24:13.240
 - And checking your vitamin D

01:24:13.240 --> 01:24:17.640
 and drinking one or two quarts of milk.

01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:20.520
 - Okay.

01:24:20.520 --> 01:24:22.960
 And for anybody that is thinking about vitamin D

01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:26.720
 or has thoughts that they don't know if they should take it,

01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:30.280
 I definitely recommend listening to the podcast

01:24:30.280 --> 01:24:33.120
 that we did with Dr. Peat on vitamin D.

01:24:33.120 --> 01:24:36.280
 I do have some other questions about progesterone

01:24:36.280 --> 01:24:38.000
 because there's lots of thoughts

01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:42.320
 because progesterone essentially in our body

01:24:42.320 --> 01:24:45.280
 can convert into cortisol or estrogen.

01:24:45.280 --> 01:24:51.760
 - Yeah, the cortisol issue is pretty clearly defined.

01:24:54.280 --> 01:24:57.200
 When you take a big dose of progesterone,

01:24:57.200 --> 01:25:02.200
 it inhibits your adrenal production of cortisol

01:25:02.200 --> 01:25:07.520
 and lowers your ACTH so the pituitary stops

01:25:07.520 --> 01:25:13.060
 supporting adrenal progesterone production.

01:25:13.060 --> 01:25:19.240
 So that's a good evidence of its anti-glucocorticoid action.

01:25:19.240 --> 01:25:24.240
 But Hans Selye in defining the effects

01:25:24.240 --> 01:25:29.280
 of each of the steroids, removed the animals' adrenals

01:25:29.280 --> 01:25:37.040
 and so the effects of stress within a few days

01:25:37.040 --> 01:25:46.440
 of having the adrenals removed, a very slight stress

01:25:46.440 --> 01:25:50.680
 would cause them to die.

01:25:50.680 --> 01:25:55.680
 But he noticed that the pregnant females didn't die

01:25:55.680 --> 01:26:01.080
 from the absence of the adrenal glands

01:26:01.080 --> 01:26:03.800
 until they bore a litter

01:26:03.800 --> 01:26:06.820
 and then the first stress would kill them.

01:26:06.820 --> 01:26:13.240
 So that gave him the idea that progesterone might be substituting

01:26:15.080 --> 01:26:20.080
 for the adrenal glands and, he found, he removed the adrenals

01:26:20.080 --> 01:26:25.760
 and then give them a supplement of progesterone

01:26:25.760 --> 01:26:29.080
 and they lived out their normal life.

01:26:29.080 --> 01:26:32.480
 No signs of adrenal deficiency.

01:26:32.480 --> 01:26:37.480
 Showing that progesterone has protective anti-cortisol

01:26:37.480 --> 01:26:43.360
 actions at the high end and protective aldosterone-like

01:26:44.360 --> 01:26:49.860
 effects at the other end.

01:26:49.860 --> 01:26:56.660
 - So I think what you're saying is that progesterone

01:26:56.660 --> 01:27:02.040
 when cortisol is needed will convert into cortisol.

01:27:02.040 --> 01:27:04.800
 - No, no, it has intrinsic.

01:27:04.800 --> 01:27:08.200
 - Or act like cortisol.

01:27:08.200 --> 01:27:13.200
 - Yeah, and it has intrinsic effects of

01:27:14.040 --> 01:27:16.760
 all of the other, aldosterone, for example,

01:27:16.760 --> 01:27:21.760
 progesterone is acting in place of aldosterone

01:27:21.760 --> 01:27:27.480
 that can even tend to lower the aldosterone you have.

01:27:27.480 --> 01:27:34.000
 But with the adrenal gland, there won't be any aldosterone

01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:39.240
 and so the progesterone itself is intrinsically

01:27:40.280 --> 01:27:44.080
 balancing the minerals the way aldosterone should.

01:27:44.080 --> 01:27:50.160
 - Okay, so our adrenals will produce our progesterone

01:27:50.160 --> 01:27:55.880
 certainly as women we obviously produce it during ovulation

01:27:55.880 --> 01:27:57.720
 but also when we are not ovulating,

01:27:57.720 --> 01:28:00.360
 we produce progesterone via our adrenal glands.

01:28:00.360 --> 01:28:02.720
 Is it produced anywhere else besides that?

01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:07.600
 - Progesterone, yeah, the brain and the skin,

01:28:10.000 --> 01:28:14.320
 the skin is a pretty big source of progesterone

01:28:14.320 --> 01:28:19.320
 and the brain, they haven't tried skinning animals

01:28:19.320 --> 01:28:25.200
 to prove that it's all coming from the brain

01:28:25.200 --> 01:28:29.960
 but if you remove the adrenals and the ovaries,

01:28:29.960 --> 01:28:37.600
 you can see the DHEA and progesterone,

01:28:39.480 --> 01:28:41.800
 they tend to be stabilized to some extent,

01:28:41.800 --> 01:28:47.840
 not enough to make you resistant to stress

01:28:47.840 --> 01:28:52.760
 but there is a big boost in DHEA

01:28:52.760 --> 01:28:55.280
 and the small increase in progesterone.

01:28:55.280 --> 01:29:01.120
 - Interesting, there are some medical doctors

01:29:01.120 --> 01:29:06.040
 that I have read that say that they're trying to talk

01:29:06.040 --> 01:29:08.080
 against everybody, that people shouldn't supplement

01:29:08.080 --> 01:29:10.200
 progesterone and one of the reasons,

01:29:10.200 --> 01:29:12.000
 not everybody, but they're saying one of the reasons

01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:15.880
 that you might not take progesterone

01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:17.880
 is if you're already in a stress state,

01:29:17.880 --> 01:29:21.880
 that progesterone can increase your cortisol.

01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:23.840
 Is that a correct statement?

01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:28.840
 - No, it's always anti-glucocorticoid.

01:29:28.840 --> 01:29:32.640
 - So if somebody is, so I know of somebody

01:29:32.640 --> 01:29:37.360
 that was taking a very, very high amount of progesterone

01:29:37.360 --> 01:29:42.080
 200-300 milligrams and after six months of doing that,

01:29:42.080 --> 01:29:47.000
 she was getting kind of hyperadrenaline symptoms

01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:50.360
 and then when she stopped taking the progesterone,

01:29:50.360 --> 01:29:52.960
 the symptoms seemed to be alleviated.

01:29:52.960 --> 01:29:56.360
 What exactly could have been happening in her?

01:29:56.360 --> 01:30:01.160
 - I'm not sure.

01:30:01.160 --> 01:30:07.120
 - So she was also taking a thyroid medication too

01:30:07.120 --> 01:30:09.920
 and she decreased that as well,

01:30:09.920 --> 01:30:14.360
 but the doctor assumed what it was was the excessive amount

01:30:14.360 --> 01:30:17.240
 of progesterone that she was consuming or taking

01:30:17.240 --> 01:30:18.960
 because it seemed to correct

01:30:18.960 --> 01:30:22.120
 once she stopped taking such a high amount.

01:30:22.120 --> 01:30:24.200
 So I thought maybe it was just that her body

01:30:24.200 --> 01:30:25.880
 wasn't even utilizing it properly

01:30:25.880 --> 01:30:28.560
 'cause it was such a long time taking it.

01:30:28.560 --> 01:30:31.280
 - Did she take it continuously or?

01:30:31.280 --> 01:30:33.840
 - She was taking some continuously, yes.

01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:37.320
 She was taking some, even though she was still

01:30:37.320 --> 01:30:39.360
 having a period, she was taking some

01:30:39.360 --> 01:30:41.000
 in the beginning of the cycle,

01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:44.760
 she would take more after ovulation

01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:47.160
 'cause initially it was helping her feel better

01:30:47.160 --> 01:30:48.880
 and then it wasn't.

01:30:48.880 --> 01:30:54.920
 - The reason the body interrupts it every two weeks

01:30:54.920 --> 01:31:00.160
 is that continuous exposure to your own progesterone

01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:07.960
 is gradually activating the liver's excretory enzymes.

01:31:07.960 --> 01:31:16.200
 And so after a month or two of continuous progesterone,

01:31:16.200 --> 01:31:19.880
 it leaves your body very, very quickly.

01:31:19.880 --> 01:31:27.760
 So a dose of it will have a much reduced effect

01:31:30.760 --> 01:31:32.720
 but not last very long.

01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:37.120
 - Okay, so essentially because she never took a break,

01:31:37.120 --> 01:31:38.800
 basically it was just once she took,

01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:42.480
 but why would, so why would getting off of it

01:31:42.480 --> 01:31:43.360
 feel better then?

01:31:43.360 --> 01:31:46.400
 Was it that her body was becoming more sensitive to it?

01:31:46.400 --> 01:31:47.320
 Her own progesterone?

01:31:47.320 --> 01:31:50.400
 - Yeah, the liver just takes two weeks to recover.

01:31:50.400 --> 01:31:55.240
 - Yep, that's about what it took her to feel better.

01:31:55.240 --> 01:31:57.480
 - Yeah, as soon as the liver stops,

01:31:57.480 --> 01:32:01.160
 it's exaggerated excretion

01:32:01.160 --> 01:32:06.160
 then your natural progesterone cycle is going to work.

01:32:06.160 --> 01:32:12.400
 - Okay, yeah, so I think that something to just come from

01:32:12.400 --> 01:32:15.280
 is that yes, progesterone is good,

01:32:15.280 --> 01:32:17.680
 it's better to produce it.

01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:22.680
 You should, if you need it, a single or a just low doses

01:32:22.680 --> 01:32:24.080
 can be the thing that helps.

01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:25.320
 And if you need it continually,

01:32:25.320 --> 01:32:27.760
 then you probably need to look at other things

01:32:27.760 --> 01:32:30.640
 that could possibly be creating your issues.

01:32:30.640 --> 01:32:32.840
 Is that a correct statement?

01:32:32.840 --> 01:32:37.840
 - Yeah, I think of it as a practice for getting the stress

01:32:37.840 --> 01:32:41.960
 down and restoring your natural cycling.

01:32:41.960 --> 01:32:47.680
 - What about for the women that try progesterone therapy

01:32:47.680 --> 01:32:50.160
 and it makes them feel worse?

01:32:50.160 --> 01:32:52.560
 Maybe initially they start it with their cycle,

01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:54.880
 maybe they're taking it in their luteal phase

01:32:54.880 --> 01:32:56.000
 because maybe they're either,

01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:58.040
 maybe they're not actually ovulating.

01:32:58.040 --> 01:32:59.600
 And so they start taking progesterone

01:32:59.600 --> 01:33:01.680
 to kind of mimic a normal cycle,

01:33:01.680 --> 01:33:03.360
 but it makes them feel worse.

01:33:03.360 --> 01:33:04.560
 What could be happening?

01:33:04.560 --> 01:33:11.160
 - It's important to watch what's actually happening,

01:33:11.160 --> 01:33:13.280
 checking your temperature,

01:33:13.280 --> 01:33:18.280
 a pulse rate and the other signs that you can measure

01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:25.080
 the quality of sleep and appetite and so on.

01:33:25.080 --> 01:33:40.080
 Some women, since they're taking it many years ago

01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:48.760
 the idea of taking drugs on the skin or through a little patch

01:33:50.120 --> 01:33:55.120
 and a estrogen patch or a travel motion sickness patch

01:33:55.120 --> 01:34:05.720
 was about, some as small as a nickel or dime,

01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:08.680
 some about like a quarter.

01:34:08.680 --> 01:34:16.760
 I knew quite a few women who said progesterone

01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:18.280
 didn't do anything at all.

01:34:19.120 --> 01:34:24.120
 I put it on my wrist to ask how much.

01:34:24.120 --> 01:34:29.600
 I said an area about the size of a quarter.

01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:37.560
 Those people believed they were taking progesterone

01:34:37.560 --> 01:34:42.840
 but essentially getting zero change in their body.

01:34:42.840 --> 01:34:47.920
 So it's important to go by actual signs

01:34:47.920 --> 01:34:50.400
 such as temperature and pulse rate.

01:34:50.400 --> 01:34:55.080
 It should increase the stroke volume of your heart.

01:34:55.080 --> 01:35:01.000
 And so decrease the frequency of the heartbeat

01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:06.840
 on the average while maintaining your temperature

01:35:06.840 --> 01:35:10.960
 at a higher level.

01:35:10.960 --> 01:35:13.960
 - Okay, so if they're taking it and it's working properly

01:35:13.960 --> 01:35:16.760
 they should have an increase in temperature and pulse.

01:35:17.560 --> 01:35:18.400
 - Yeah.

01:35:18.400 --> 01:35:21.880
 - Okay, and so like again, if they are taking it

01:35:21.880 --> 01:35:24.560
 and they all of a sudden feel worse,

01:35:24.560 --> 01:35:28.960
 my understanding was that maybe that progesterone

01:35:28.960 --> 01:35:31.600
 was pulling estrogen from the tissue.

01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:32.680
 Could that be happening?

01:35:32.680 --> 01:35:34.640
 And that's why they were feeling worse?

01:35:34.640 --> 01:35:39.520
 - Except that it comes out in the detoxified form.

01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:48.840
 It's not harmful when it's being detoxified by progesterone.

01:35:48.840 --> 01:35:54.320
 - Oh, so the estrogen and the tissue

01:35:54.320 --> 01:35:58.040
 that is being pulled from the tissue isn't harmful.

01:35:58.040 --> 01:36:02.000
 So that will not create a estrogenic response then?

01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:04.880
 - Yeah, because it's in the water soluble.

01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:09.880
 The estrogen activates the enzymes inside the cell

01:36:10.760 --> 01:36:15.760
 to stop producing it and to make it water soluble.

01:36:15.760 --> 01:36:19.000
 And that causes it to leave the cell

01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:22.320
 in a water soluble form.

01:36:22.320 --> 01:36:27.160
 And in that form, it doesn't get into other cells.

01:36:27.160 --> 01:36:28.960
 So it can't act on you,

01:36:28.960 --> 01:36:31.880
 but it tends to go right out through the kidneys.

01:36:31.880 --> 01:36:34.160
 - I see, I see.

01:36:34.160 --> 01:36:38.400
 So the women that end up taking some sort of progesterone

01:36:38.400 --> 01:36:41.200
 and like I said, don't feel well,

01:36:41.200 --> 01:36:44.440
 then what is happening to those women?

01:36:44.440 --> 01:36:49.200
 - Most often they are using it

01:36:49.200 --> 01:36:51.800
 in inadequate amounts on their skin.

01:36:51.800 --> 01:37:00.880
 Whenever I've been present and watch how it's being used,

01:37:00.880 --> 01:37:06.960
 I never saw it fail or make anyone feel worse.

01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:08.400
 - I see, okay.

01:37:08.400 --> 01:37:09.960
 So essentially you're saying

01:37:09.960 --> 01:37:11.480
 maybe they're just not getting enough

01:37:11.480 --> 01:37:13.880
 and that could be the reason it's not working

01:37:13.880 --> 01:37:16.440
 and that could be a crazy issue?

01:37:16.440 --> 01:37:22.680
 - Yeah, sometimes usually after I had given a talk,

01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:26.080
 someone would come up after the talk

01:37:26.080 --> 01:37:31.080
 and one of private conversation about their problems.

01:37:32.720 --> 01:37:37.720
 So I would give them some progesterone and sit there

01:37:37.720 --> 01:37:43.040
 and watch their reactions and you could see it happening.

01:37:43.040 --> 01:37:50.080
 But in some cases it went up since I was there

01:37:50.080 --> 01:37:56.560
 to see that they weren't getting drunk

01:37:56.560 --> 01:37:59.960
 or going to become unconscious.

01:37:59.960 --> 01:38:04.480
 I let them keep taking a big dip on their finger

01:38:04.480 --> 01:38:08.120
 at 50 to 100 milligrams at the time

01:38:08.120 --> 01:38:13.120
 and just watching and it would often get up

01:38:13.120 --> 01:38:18.360
 to 200 or 300 milligrams, not feeling any effects at all.

01:38:18.360 --> 01:38:22.640
 Then with one more dip,

01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:26.960
 suddenly the problem would just totally disappear

01:38:28.360 --> 01:38:33.360
 a radical switch, which would be in blood vessel problems

01:38:33.360 --> 01:38:40.520
 or depression, it's a transition that happens

01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:44.080
 in just a matter of seconds or a minute or two.

01:38:44.080 --> 01:38:48.280
 - So they just kept dosing and dosing,

01:38:48.280 --> 01:38:49.520
 dosing, nothing, nothing, nothing.

01:38:49.520 --> 01:38:52.120
 And then finally at 200 or a high dose,

01:38:52.120 --> 01:38:53.720
 it just, boom, that it worked.

01:38:53.720 --> 01:38:55.240
 And you were saying it's because

01:38:55.240 --> 01:38:57.440
 there could have been a blood vessel issue?

01:38:58.320 --> 01:39:03.320
 - Um, yeah, I didn't have any tests or a way of knowing,

01:39:03.320 --> 01:39:07.600
 but it was apparently that they were

01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:13.680
 under the extreme influence of stress hormones

01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:19.920
 that were controlling their circulation,

01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:24.400
 brain circulation or hand circulation

01:39:26.240 --> 01:39:27.520
 in these parts of the body.

01:39:27.520 --> 01:39:32.120
 Suddenly the circulation would be restored

01:39:32.120 --> 01:39:35.680
 and their functions would be normalized.

01:39:35.680 --> 01:39:40.440
 - Yeah, so I think for those who are listening,

01:39:40.440 --> 01:39:42.280
 Ray was talking about when,

01:39:42.280 --> 01:39:44.880
 I think to find the magic dose for you,

01:39:44.880 --> 01:39:46.760
 I think you normally recommend,

01:39:46.760 --> 01:39:49.040
 don't you normally recommend about like 10 milligrams

01:39:49.040 --> 01:39:53.080
 every 10 to 15 minutes until you have symptoms reduced?

01:39:54.040 --> 01:39:59.040
 - Yeah, if the person isn't very sure

01:39:59.040 --> 01:40:03.120
 of what its effects are going to be,

01:40:03.120 --> 01:40:07.240
 it's good to set aside a block of time

01:40:07.240 --> 01:40:10.200
 so you can patiently pay attention

01:40:10.200 --> 01:40:13.240
 to how you're feeling and watching.

01:40:13.240 --> 01:40:19.560
 One thing to watch is the veins on the back of your hand.

01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:25.560
 They'll typically be bulging and feel fairly hard.

01:40:25.560 --> 01:40:32.640
 And as you take the small amounts of progesterone,

01:40:32.640 --> 01:40:37.200
 at some point, suddenly the veins will disappear.

01:40:37.200 --> 01:40:42.760
 - Yes, the vein thing in the hand,

01:40:42.760 --> 01:40:43.720
 'cause I think you've always said

01:40:43.720 --> 01:40:46.720
 if you raise your hand up and then raise it down

01:40:46.720 --> 01:40:50.200
 and you show bulging veins and that is a progesterone.

01:40:50.440 --> 01:40:51.760
 - deficiency.

01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:52.600
 - Yeah.

01:40:52.600 --> 01:40:55.520
 - Yeah, okay, I got two more questions

01:40:55.520 --> 01:40:57.880
 and then we'll be done.

01:40:57.880 --> 01:40:59.880
 Can you just give it a brief summary

01:40:59.880 --> 01:41:01.840
 of all the things that progesterone

01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:04.640
 can actually do and help people with?

01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:06.120
 And again, this can be your own

01:41:06.120 --> 01:41:07.520
 and that's why it's so important.

01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:09.760
 But as far as how it helps with things

01:41:09.760 --> 01:41:13.920
 like blood sugar control, sleep and so forth.

01:41:17.320 --> 01:41:22.320
 - If you name some physiological or anatomical problem,

01:41:22.320 --> 01:41:27.960
 maybe it'll be something that I haven't heard

01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:30.080
 the progesterone benefits.

01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:35.080
 But for example, two people who had grease burns

01:41:35.080 --> 01:41:43.640
 in the flesh turned their leg red.

01:41:44.160 --> 01:41:47.320
 And it looked like it was going to blister, getting,

01:41:47.320 --> 01:41:52.320
 since they had some progesterone at hand,

01:41:52.320 --> 01:41:57.320
 immediately applying the progesterone.

01:41:57.320 --> 01:42:01.360
 The major burn simply disappeared.

01:42:01.360 --> 01:42:05.400
 No lingering pain or blistering.

01:42:05.400 --> 01:42:10.440
 And several other traumas.

01:42:10.440 --> 01:42:14.360
 People happen to have progesterone at hand.

01:42:14.360 --> 01:42:22.640
 Just the most ridiculous damage

01:42:22.640 --> 01:42:27.400
 could disappear in a very short time

01:42:27.400 --> 01:42:29.240
 if they got the progesterone in time.

01:42:29.240 --> 01:42:34.040
 - So basically progesterone can be utilized

01:42:34.040 --> 01:42:37.400
 for pretty much everything you're saying.

01:42:37.400 --> 01:42:38.800
 And I have seen it being used.

01:42:38.800 --> 01:42:40.880
 I've seen it be used remarkably well

01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:43.520
 for a variety of different things.

01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:46.840
 So, and it's quite safe.

01:42:46.840 --> 01:42:49.760
 I mean, it's pretty hard to OD on progesterone, correct?

01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:54.040
 - Yeah, well, once I did it accidentally,

01:42:54.040 --> 01:42:58.600
 someone was making margaritas

01:42:58.600 --> 01:43:03.600
 and thought they were putting in a spoonful of pregnenolone

01:43:03.600 --> 01:43:06.760
 and got the wrong container

01:43:06.760 --> 01:43:11.760
 and put in probably 4,000 or 5,000 milligrams of progesterone

01:43:11.760 --> 01:43:21.680
 and probably had only about 1,000 milligrams

01:43:21.680 --> 01:43:24.600
 mixed with alcohol.

01:43:24.600 --> 01:43:27.760
 And then suddenly I couldn't tell exactly

01:43:27.760 --> 01:43:29.440
 where my hands and feet were.

01:43:29.440 --> 01:43:36.400
 And for about half an hour I watched my feet

01:43:36.560 --> 01:43:37.400
 when I walked.

01:43:37.400 --> 01:43:44.000
 - So Ray OD'd on too much progesterone, almost,

01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:47.480
 'cause you weren't getting it in the powdered form obviously.

01:43:47.480 --> 01:43:50.160
 But yeah, so that was a little different

01:43:50.160 --> 01:43:54.800
 than the stuff I used to do, but very interesting.

01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:56.960
 Okay, final question, Ray,

01:43:56.960 --> 01:44:00.480
 is what is the basic difference

01:44:00.480 --> 01:44:03.840
 between your natural progesterone and a progestin

01:44:03.840 --> 01:44:06.200
 that the medical community likes to prescribe?

01:44:06.200 --> 01:44:11.200
 - The reason the progesterone exists

01:44:11.200 --> 01:44:19.800
 is that drug companies were aware of the success of estrogen

01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:29.160
 because of the variety of problems that women have

01:44:29.160 --> 01:44:33.560
 and they knew that progesterone couldn't be patented.

01:44:33.560 --> 01:44:38.560
 And so they added a little change to it.

01:44:38.560 --> 01:44:42.800
 The way you make a new drug that you can patent

01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:46.760
 is just by some random change,

01:44:46.760 --> 01:44:52.120
 not designed intelligently in any way.

01:44:52.120 --> 01:44:57.120
 But if it still passes the test of being a progesterone

01:44:57.120 --> 01:45:02.680
 and happens that testosterone passes the test,

01:45:03.680 --> 01:45:06.440
 that they use to define a progesterone.

01:45:06.440 --> 01:45:11.480
 So the definition of a progesterone,

01:45:11.480 --> 01:45:16.480
 it causes a particular kind of change in users.

01:45:16.480 --> 01:45:23.440
 But the reason they wanted to have their own patented product

01:45:23.440 --> 01:45:31.320
 was simply that they could claim that it was,

01:45:32.320 --> 01:45:36.320
 like progesterone or substituting for it.

01:45:36.320 --> 01:45:41.320
 But one of the ways they got it to be preferred

01:45:41.320 --> 01:45:48.760
 over actual progesterone was to claim

01:45:48.760 --> 01:45:53.160
 that natural progesterone is destroyed in the stomach

01:45:53.160 --> 01:45:54.560
 by the stomach acid.

01:45:54.560 --> 01:45:59.480
 And so there, it could be taken as a pill.

01:46:00.480 --> 01:46:05.480
 But one of the processes of refining progesterone

01:46:05.480 --> 01:46:10.360
 is to boil it in the hydrochloric acid.

01:46:10.360 --> 01:46:16.600
 So it was a total whole cloth invention

01:46:16.600 --> 01:46:22.240
 that had served to shift the medical industry

01:46:22.240 --> 01:46:27.600
 towards prescribing a defined pill

01:46:27.800 --> 01:46:32.800
 rather than the natural hormone, which isn't patented.

01:46:32.800 --> 01:46:37.560
 - And so essentially medical doctors are taught

01:46:37.560 --> 01:46:40.720
 in medical school all about progestins

01:46:40.720 --> 01:46:43.400
 and not really ever discussing natural progesterone.

01:46:43.400 --> 01:46:45.920
 Is that pretty much how they're being taught?

01:46:45.920 --> 01:46:47.680
 - Yeah, they're all harmful.

01:46:47.680 --> 01:46:53.600
 A lot of them were very estrogenic,

01:46:53.600 --> 01:46:58.600
 quite a few of them were androgenic, women would grow hirsutism

01:46:58.600 --> 01:47:04.000
 from anything that is chemically

01:47:04.000 --> 01:47:09.280
 not exactly progesterone.

01:47:09.280 --> 01:47:12.080
 It's going to have anti-progesterone effects,

01:47:12.080 --> 01:47:18.000
 not to mention the androgenic or estrogenic effects

01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:22.880
 or even the glucocorticoid-like effects.

01:47:23.880 --> 01:47:27.880
 So any progesterone, so-called,

01:47:27.880 --> 01:47:31.520
 other than natural progesterone

01:47:31.520 --> 01:47:37.400
 is going to have anti-progesterone effects.

01:47:37.400 --> 01:47:42.480
 - So if you were going to tell any woman

01:47:42.480 --> 01:47:45.880
 going through pre or post or menopausal,

01:47:45.880 --> 01:47:51.080
 what would be your advice if their doctor said

01:47:51.080 --> 01:47:53.800
 you need some progestin and some estrogen?

01:47:53.800 --> 01:47:57.960
 - You need which?

01:47:57.960 --> 01:48:00.120
 - You need estrogen and a progestin,

01:48:00.120 --> 01:48:02.320
 and that's going to get you feeling better.

01:48:02.320 --> 01:48:07.480
 - If I didn't know better,

01:48:07.480 --> 01:48:11.400
 I would ask the doctor what he means by progestin,

01:48:11.400 --> 01:48:18.120
 why not natural pure progesterone?

01:48:20.400 --> 01:48:24.400
 And whether you knew about the toxic effects

01:48:24.400 --> 01:48:28.600
 of all of the so-called progestins.

01:48:28.600 --> 01:48:35.160
 - Yes, yeah, so I think the overall message is

01:48:35.160 --> 01:48:39.040
 we don't need any excess.

01:48:39.040 --> 01:48:40.480
 Most women don't need,

01:48:40.480 --> 01:48:42.600
 well, let me ask this question real quick.

01:48:42.600 --> 01:48:47.200
 Does any woman ever need additional estrogen?

01:48:48.720 --> 01:48:53.720
 - I've never run across a situation

01:48:53.720 --> 01:48:59.240
 where you would suspect that there could be

01:48:59.240 --> 01:49:03.040
 an official estrogen production

01:49:03.040 --> 01:49:06.800
 because any sickness or injury

01:49:06.800 --> 01:49:09.920
 to just about any part of your body

01:49:09.920 --> 01:49:14.920
 and almost any type of cell can produce estrogen.

01:49:16.160 --> 01:49:19.480
 It's an injury and sickness reaction,

01:49:19.480 --> 01:49:25.480
 trying to create a new life to get out of this sickness.

01:49:25.480 --> 01:49:32.880
 So anything that you do to hurt the organism

01:49:32.880 --> 01:49:37.160
 is going to activate estrogen production

01:49:37.160 --> 01:49:41.960
 in one or many parts of the body.

01:49:44.800 --> 01:49:46.480
 - So that would be a no.

01:49:46.480 --> 01:49:51.280
 I would guess if somebody had maybe a pituitary issue,

01:49:51.280 --> 01:49:55.240
 I know someone that had a hypothalamic obesity

01:49:55.240 --> 01:49:58.320
 and I think they had a non-working pituitary.

01:49:58.320 --> 01:50:00.680
 So they were young,

01:50:00.680 --> 01:50:04.800
 I'm guessing that person might need estrogen for growth.

01:50:04.800 --> 01:50:10.320
 - No, because the stress,

01:50:11.800 --> 01:50:16.520
 so these things turn on aromatase

01:50:16.520 --> 01:50:19.160
 and the activating enzymes.

01:50:19.160 --> 01:50:27.000
 Tissues are autonomous in their ability

01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:31.560
 to react to stress by an increasing estrogen.

01:50:31.560 --> 01:50:36.680
 - So a woman that has non-functioning ovaries

01:50:36.680 --> 01:50:38.440
 or doesn't have the proper communication

01:50:38.440 --> 01:50:42.520
 between the pituitary and the ovaries

01:50:42.520 --> 01:50:45.000
 and isn't producing estrogen via the ovaries,

01:50:45.000 --> 01:50:48.200
 does it need to be even put on any sort of estrogen therapy

01:50:48.200 --> 01:50:49.640
 to create a cycle?

01:50:49.640 --> 01:50:58.960
 - They're probably overlooking

01:50:58.960 --> 01:51:01.840
 the actual estrogen that's there.

01:51:03.560 --> 01:51:08.560
 The shock, one of Hans Selye's studies showed

01:51:08.560 --> 01:51:14.240
 that estrogen imitated the shock reaction,

01:51:14.240 --> 01:51:17.560
 the first phase of the stress reaction.

01:51:17.560 --> 01:51:23.520
 So estrogen's effects are shock-like effects.

01:51:23.520 --> 01:51:31.040
 And so you can shock the body with a dose of estrogen.

01:51:32.520 --> 01:51:37.520
 And sometimes that can rouse the tissues defensively

01:51:37.520 --> 01:51:43.200
 to start producing more progesterone.

01:51:43.200 --> 01:51:48.200
 But in many cases, if you don't have the resilience

01:51:48.200 --> 01:51:52.840
 to make enough progesterone,

01:51:52.840 --> 01:51:55.560
 what your body does to respond

01:51:55.560 --> 01:51:59.640
 to one of the shocking doses of estrogen

01:51:59.640 --> 01:52:02.920
 is to increase the androgens.

01:52:02.920 --> 01:52:07.400
 The polycystic ovarian syndrome, for example,

01:52:07.400 --> 01:52:13.240
 you can secrete it in dogs and cows

01:52:13.240 --> 01:52:19.240
 by getting an injection of gonadotropins,

01:52:19.240 --> 01:52:25.440
 increasing all of the gonadal hormones

01:52:27.080 --> 01:52:30.240
 and removing their thyroid gland.

01:52:30.240 --> 01:52:33.760
 So the combination of activating,

01:52:33.760 --> 01:52:39.040
 especially estrogen and androgens

01:52:39.040 --> 01:52:42.560
 against a low thyroid background

01:52:42.560 --> 01:52:47.560
 is what is enough to bring on the polycyclic ovary syndrome.

01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:52.760
 And in that syndrome, the androgens are high,

01:52:53.280 --> 01:52:57.000
 but the progesterone is low.

01:52:57.000 --> 01:53:03.680
 And then the androgens androstenedione and androstanediol

01:53:03.680 --> 01:53:12.000
 and DHEA and testosterone are all sources

01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:17.000
 for the stress issues elsewhere to make estrogen.

01:53:19.160 --> 01:53:24.160
 Okay, a combination of estrogen poisoning

01:53:24.160 --> 01:53:29.640
 which can be brought on by the estrogen shock.

01:53:29.640 --> 01:53:32.560
 - I see, so just to sum that up,

01:53:32.560 --> 01:53:37.120
 PCOS is normally characterized by excess androgens,

01:53:37.120 --> 01:53:39.240
 but that's certainly how it's described in the medical world

01:53:39.240 --> 01:53:41.920
 and also maybe some sort of insulin resistance

01:53:41.920 --> 01:53:43.080
 that goes along with it.

01:53:43.080 --> 01:53:45.280
 But essentially you're saying

01:53:45.280 --> 01:53:48.000
 that it's an increased amount of androgens

01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:51.240
 that usually those are converting into the estrogens

01:53:51.240 --> 01:53:53.560
 and that's creating the issues.

01:53:53.560 --> 01:54:00.560
 - Yeah, and the failure to produce enough progesterone

01:54:00.560 --> 01:54:05.000
 was really part of the problem

01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:07.520
 but we'll let it go down that pathway.

01:54:07.520 --> 01:54:12.360
 - Gotcha, so sum that up, estrogen is bad.

01:54:12.360 --> 01:54:14.360
 Not bad, I want to say, I don't ever say bad.

01:54:14.360 --> 01:54:18.600
 So excess estrogen is certainly not what you want

01:54:18.600 --> 01:54:23.280
 and progesterone is like the superhero of all of it.

01:54:23.280 --> 01:54:24.600
 Yes?

01:54:24.600 --> 01:54:25.440
 - Yes.

01:54:25.440 --> 01:54:28.640
 - Yeah, I love when you agree with me.

01:54:28.640 --> 01:54:29.880
 Well, Dr. Peat, that was awesome.

01:54:29.880 --> 01:54:30.960
 Kitty, are you still there?

01:54:30.960 --> 01:54:33.640
 I know, I love to take over this time here.

01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:34.840
 - No, it's so good I'm here

01:54:34.840 --> 01:54:36.600
 and listening and learning so much.

01:54:36.600 --> 01:54:37.600
 That was amazing.

01:54:37.600 --> 01:54:42.920
 - Yeah, Ray, I always get very honored

01:54:42.920 --> 01:54:44.280
 and Kitty lets me come on her show

01:54:44.280 --> 01:54:46.000
 and I get to talk to you

01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:47.640
 and she just lets me take it

01:54:47.640 --> 01:54:51.200
 'cause I tell her I'm such the super fan.

01:54:51.200 --> 01:54:54.480
 So I appreciate you.

01:54:54.480 --> 01:54:57.320
 - Come back with such great questions and really thorough

01:54:57.320 --> 01:55:00.360
 and it's always well thought out and logical.

01:55:00.360 --> 01:55:05.120
 - Well, that's only 'cause Ray has all,

01:55:05.120 --> 01:55:07.200
 you have the plethora of information

01:55:07.200 --> 01:55:09.040
 that I'm so grateful that you are willing

01:55:09.040 --> 01:55:10.880
 to share with us ongoing basis.

01:55:10.880 --> 01:55:13.760
 So I thank you so much for coming again today.

01:55:14.760 --> 01:55:16.760
 - Oh, okay, thank you.

01:55:16.760 --> 01:55:17.600
 - Awesome. - Thanks, Ray.

01:55:17.600 --> 01:55:18.440
 Take care. - Thank you so much, guys.

01:55:18.440 --> 01:55:19.600
 Bye.

01:55:19.600 --> 01:55:20.440
 - Bye.

01:55:20.440 --> 01:55:22.200
 - Bye-bye.

01:55:22.200 --> 01:55:24.800
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01:55:24.800 --> 01:55:26.600
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01:55:26.600 --> 01:55:36.600
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