WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.480 So all of the mechanisms suggest that estrogen imbalance relative to progesterone is what is 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:16.480 causing the hot flashes. The fact that you can stop a hot flash with estrogen is probably because 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:25.760 estrogen activates cortisol and other stress hormones that block the metabolism of estrogen, 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:30.960 and that has the potential to inhibit nitric oxide synthesis. 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:39.280 Okay, so but nitric oxide will increase estrogen though, don't they kind of all work together? So 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:43.280 it's just the overabundance can inhibit it. Can you kind of go over that one more time? 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:51.680 It tends to be a vicious circle, but estrogen is one of the, estrogen and stress and hypoglycemia 00:00:52.400 --> 00:00:59.680 will all activate nitric oxide and progesterone inhibits it partly by keeping steady sugar 00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:05.920 metabolism, maintaining body temperature. A lower body temperature creates a vicious circle, 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:09.360 including the production of more estrogen. 00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:21.360 Welcome to the Weight Loss for Women podcast, a place where we share everything you need to 00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:27.360 know about restoring your metabolism so you can eat more, train less, and lose weight in a healthy 00:01:27.360 --> 00:01:32.880 and sustainable way. I'm Kitty Blomfield, co-founder of NuStrength and Saturée, 00:01:32.880 --> 00:01:37.920 creator of Prometabolic Food Supplements and seriously saturatée skincare. And today I'm 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:43.280 really excited to have Dr. Ray Peat and Kate Deering back on the podcast. So we've done 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:48.160 quite a few podcasts with both of them. So I highly recommend you go back and listen to those. 00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:54.800 But today we wanted to get Ray back on to talk more about estrogen replacement therapy. 00:01:54.800 --> 00:02:02.640 And we also dive into some of the myths around milk and calcium. So if you're anything like I 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:08.640 once was, you know, you probably thought milk and dairy products caused inflammation and cancer. And 00:02:08.640 --> 00:02:15.440 you know, I thought they were too high in sugar. So I cut them all out of my diet. And I was 00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:21.200 actually diagnosed with lactose intolerance at age 12. So my mum put me on bloody soy milk 00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:27.520 and all those disgusting cheeses, you know, non-dairy cheeses. But when I met 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:34.000 Emma, I realized that I couldn't digest dairy because I had a stress digestive system. So, 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:40.720 you know, once I improved that and improved all my metabolic markers, I was able to tolerate 00:02:40.720 --> 00:02:47.680 dairy again. And you know, calcium has so many benefits and is needed by the body for so many 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:56.000 different things which we cover in this podcast. So it is jam packed with information. So I highly 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:05.040 recommend you grab a pen and paper and take notes. And as always, please rate and review the podcast. 00:03:05.040 --> 00:03:08.960 So if you add the podcast episodes, if you've rated and reviewed us before, you can do it as 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:17.040 many times as you like. And each month, I actually pick a winner from those that share. So if you'd 00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:23.200 like to win a tub of Saturatée Premium Collagen, all you need to do is take a screenshot of the 00:03:23.200 --> 00:03:31.920 review or the podcast episode and share it on Instagram stories and tag me at K-I-T-T-Y-B-L-O-M-F-I-E-L-D. 00:03:31.920 --> 00:03:36.560 And like I said, each month, I just pick a winner, pick someone from those that have shared and they 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:44.960 get a tub of Saturatée Premium Collagen. So look, I hope you learn as much as I did in this episode. 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:52.400 Let's get into it. Super, super excited to welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Ray Peat and Kate Deering. 00:03:52.400 --> 00:04:00.080 Hi, guys. Welcome back. Hello, Miss Kitty. How are you today? All good? 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:09.920 Yeah, all good here. Yep. Sure, too. Okay, great. So this is, I think, probably maybe the fifth time 00:04:09.920 --> 00:04:15.120 we've had Dr. Peat on the podcast. We've had Kate Deering on the podcast probably 10 plus times. 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:22.960 And the last podcast we had, there was quite a lot of questions around 00:04:22.960 --> 00:04:25.760 issues and replacement therapy. So we thought we'd start this podcast. 00:04:25.760 --> 00:04:31.440 Kate just wanted to ask Dr. Peat some questions around that. And then we wanted to dive into 00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:36.000 myths around calcium and milk. So Kate, I'll hand over to you. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:42.960 Okay. So yeah, a lot of what we talked about last time was certainly estrogen and the industry of 00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:48.080 estrogen, which went down a lot of trails of estrogen replacement therapy. Because obviously 00:04:48.080 --> 00:04:53.040 when women enter menopause, it seems to be somewhere that they're driven to because 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:58.800 it can make them feel better. And so during the course of this, I was actually referred to a book 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:05.520 if people want to look it up called Estrogen Matters by Dr. Avram Blumming and Carol Tavris. 00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:09.600 And so I thought we would talk about some of the things that he says in there, because he's 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:17.760 certainly a pro estrogen therapy doctor. So in this book, he definitely talks about that 00:05:17.760 --> 00:05:24.720 estrogen therapy has some good reasons to take it, especially for women. There's good and bad, 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:31.280 but one of his things he says that estrogen therapy can help with heart disease. And so I thought Dr. 00:05:31.280 --> 00:05:37.680 Peat could maybe elaborate on some of these claims that the estrogen industry is saying about what 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:46.160 it's doing to help benefit women. I have been writing newsletters on that topic in particular, 00:05:47.200 --> 00:05:59.440 many years ago, showing the contrary research that women do have a better outcome for heart 00:05:59.440 --> 00:06:07.120 health at the end of their lives. But progesterone is the heart protected factor. For decades, 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:15.600 I've been saying that the research shows that estrogen increases clotting, many kinds of 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:26.320 inflammation, and other factors relating to plaque formation, arterial spasms, and so on. 00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:36.240 The progesterone has many life extending properties, especially against heart disease, 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:44.800 but against all of the degenerative tissue processes. Demonstrated first rabbit studies 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:54.240 showed very clearly that the higher their progesterone exposure relative to estrogen, 00:06:54.240 --> 00:07:01.280 the longer they lived, and the younger all of their tissues were at a given age. And then that 00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:08.480 was supported by population studies in humans over the course of their life. For example, 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:20.880 having more babies leaves their body more able to produce progesterone and regulate downward estrogen. 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:33.200 So the facts are historically very clear against estrogen's protective effects, though you have 00:07:33.200 --> 00:07:43.440 to start out with the fact that beginning in 1942, after several years of research showing that 00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:56.800 estrogen caused infertility, was in a board of patient, and had many dangerous properties, 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:07.520 including blood clotting. This was established starting in the mid 1930s, and the carcinogenic 00:08:07.520 --> 00:08:16.160 effects were clearly shown in animal studies all through that period, culminating in a 1950 book 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:23.600 by Alexander Lipschutz, for example, showing that estrogen was carcinogenic 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:32.000 to every tissue in the body, not just breast, uterus, brain, and so on, but lungs, kidneys, 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:40.240 all the other organs, if it isn't interrupted regularly by progesterone. One of the main 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:49.600 functions of progesterone is to knock out estrogen protects against stresses such as estrogen. 00:08:50.720 --> 00:09:02.960 So in 1942, the drug industry managed to convince the FDA that it was 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:14.960 all right to use estrogen to treat menopause, including infertility symptoms, 00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:21.280 exactly opposite of what the facts were showing for several years. 00:09:21.280 --> 00:09:34.800 Using their financial power, they convinced the FDA to approve it for all of these 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:48.400 illogical uses, and they used that market power to finance research to practically force the 00:09:48.400 --> 00:09:56.000 deans of medical schools to oversee the research done in their schools to make sure their 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:04.640 medical school would keep getting generous financing for research purposes. And the same 00:10:04.640 --> 00:10:12.000 thing with journals. They let it be known that they were buying advertising that would enrich 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:19.840 the journals, and if there weren't advertisements in the journals, the journals would sell them 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:27.680 reprints of their articles, sometimes for huge amounts of money, which were essentially 00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:37.280 bribes to the journals to publish things regardless of their truth. And that same power 00:10:37.280 --> 00:10:45.280 went directly to influencing doctors, giving them kickbacks for prescribing estrogen, 00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:55.840 and finally to direct advertising to the public. So starting right in 1942, the estrogen industry 00:10:56.400 --> 00:11:05.280 profoundly corrupted science changed the whole nature of how the public thinks about it. 00:11:05.280 --> 00:11:15.440 And as people grew up in a culture in which estrogen was said to cure hundreds of different 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:25.600 conditions, contrary to the facts, the people growing up in that generalized culture of estrogen 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:35.760 worship, when they got to medical school, that was still their framework. And so when they found that 00:11:35.760 --> 00:11:45.120 doing research that would support the estrogen industry, that was all that was going to be 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:55.120 financed. The background belief that was observed from the culture, just the so-called common 00:11:55.120 --> 00:12:03.680 knowledge, that was reinforced by the knowledge that their career could thrive if they came up 00:12:03.680 --> 00:12:12.960 with results that favored the estrogen industry. And the result was that hundreds of diseases 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:23.120 promoted by estrogen were, according to articles in medical journals, claimed to cure or prevent 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:33.920 exactly that same disease it caused. For example, it was widely known that estrogen caused abortions, 00:12:33.920 --> 00:12:42.000 but they found professors at Harvard who would say that it's a female hormone, 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:50.960 and people who are infertile must be less female. And so if you give them estrogen, 00:12:51.840 --> 00:13:00.320 it'll make them more feminine and therefore more fertile. So using diethylstilbestrol, 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:08.400 they prescribed estrogen ultimately to millions of women, 00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:15.920 damaging their babies and their own health, causing generations of 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:28.320 uterine cancer, various deformities, and so on. So the most outrageous falsehood about what 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:41.680 estrogen does took years and years to be reversed. And in the first studies of estrogen in humans, 00:13:41.680 --> 00:13:50.320 they saw no benefit at all to the bones and skeleton. If anything, the estrogen was causing 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:59.280 soft tissues to bind calcium, not to bones. And so they did animal studies. 00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:07.280 The first research animal they used was the beagle dog, and it happened that estrogen 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:19.760 very distinctly damaged and weakened their bones. And apparently people understanding that nocturnal 00:14:19.760 --> 00:14:28.880 rodents react almost oppositely to steroid hormones to human beings. They settled on 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:41.600 rats as their proof that estrogen would prevent or cure osteoporosis. Again, the history of it is 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:52.400 based on obvious fraud. And the same with heart disease, for example, they were so convinced, 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:59.920 they convinced the regulators that estrogen was why women didn't have so much heart disease, 00:14:59.920 --> 00:15:07.360 that they started giving estrogen to men. And it didn't take long before the men were having 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:15.680 more heart problems, heart attacks in particular. Yeah, I think that is an assumption with a little 00:15:15.680 --> 00:15:20.960 just kind of kind of go over a little bit about heart disease in women. And I think it's believed 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:28.080 since women have estrogen, because they do have less heart disease pre menopausal. And I've always 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:34.000 heard it's usually because women have a cycle and they have a way of dumping out iron. And would you 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:38.000 say that might be the reason why women have less heart disease? It's just because they can get rid 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:45.680 of toxic metals like iron. Definitely. When they stop menstruating, their iron level 00:15:46.400 --> 00:15:54.640 goes up sharply. But progesterone does many other things besides allow menstruation. 00:15:54.640 --> 00:16:04.080 The first missed menstruation, the beginning of menopause, when you measure the hormones, 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:10.960 estrogen hasn't changed at all and won't for a few months. But estrogen is what fails 00:16:11.760 --> 00:16:18.880 when menstruation stops. Again, another evidence that progesterone is a protective factor. 00:16:18.880 --> 00:16:29.040 And in the absence of progesterone beginning with menopause, you have unopposed estrogen 00:16:29.040 --> 00:16:38.960 for the first few months. Around the age of 38 is generally the peak of estrogen production. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:48.000 And then shortly after that, you get progressive failure of progesterone production. So the 00:16:48.000 --> 00:17:00.080 unopposed estrogen is astronomically high in that period from age 38 up until menopause whenever 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:06.320 that is. Right. And when you would say unopposed, because it seems that a lot of women during that 00:17:06.320 --> 00:17:12.640 age will get their hormones checked, and they'll come back and say, well, my estradiol is low. So 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:20.400 they're being told to get on estrogen therapy even before menopause. Estradiol is an oil-loving 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:34.000 substance. And the way that it's eliminated is to add either sulfuric acid or glucuronic acid 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.200 to the estrogen molecule. That makes it water soluble. And so it's circulating in the blood 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:51.440 when it's being eliminated from the body. Progesterone in at least half a dozen ways 00:17:52.000 --> 00:18:05.360 activates and inactivates the enzymes regulating the attachment of the acid or the removal of the 00:18:05.360 --> 00:18:14.640 acid. So in the absence of progesterone, the soluble form of estrogen circulating in the blood 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:24.720 is decreased, but that means the oil-soluble form stays within cells. And within cells, 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:35.280 it activates various things, including aromatase. So in the absence of progesterone, 00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:45.120 you're increasing aromatase, and you're blocking the enzymes that excrete it. So as it falls, 00:18:45.120 --> 00:18:53.360 the level falls in the blood, the actual intracellular form is increasing. 00:18:53.360 --> 00:19:00.800 Okay, so kind of to summarize that, when you release progesterone, certainly during your cycle, 00:19:00.800 --> 00:19:08.160 that's also going to increase the estrogen in the blood because it's there to be excreted. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:13.440 So no progesterone, there's always going to be less estrogen in the blood because the progesterone 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:20.640 is needed to activate the estrogen to release, is that correct? And something I've also heard too 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.960 about women that have been on estrogen therapy, and I think this is another theory, is when they're 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:31.120 on and they get off estrogen therapy, that they're told, well, your cholesterol levels have elevated. 00:19:31.120 --> 00:19:35.840 And so they're like, well, and then they're being told, well, because estrogen is protective for 00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:40.720 your heart. Can estrogen have an effect on the liver that would affect cholesterol numbers? 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.760 Because obviously, just because your cholesterol is up or down, does it mean 00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:47.120 technically that you have any more chances of heart disease? 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:57.600 Yeah, the reason women have about 10 times higher incidence of thyroid deficiency and rheumatoid 00:19:57.600 --> 00:20:09.200 autoimmune diseases is because estrogen knocks out the detoxifying process in the liver that 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:19.200 removes estrogen. So the more estrogen circulating and produce, the more your liver suffers, 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:27.680 your thyroid is suppressed, and the liver slows down all of its metabolism, especially the 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:42.320 glucuronidase and sulfotransferase enzymes that would detoxify estrogen. So the defensive processes 00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:53.280 produce more progesterone, but if your thyroid is less active because of the estrogen blockage, 00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:04.480 then you're needing something to increase the protective progesterone. And it happens that if 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:13.840 you can increase cholesterol in circulation, it directly supports the production of steroids 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:24.960 in the brain as well as in the ovaries and adrenals. So rising cholesterol compensates 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:34.720 for excess estrogen and the resulting hypothyroidism. If you isolate an ovary, 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:42.960 measure how much progesterone is coming out of the ovary, and then you increase the cholesterol 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.720 circulating in the blood, you directly increase the production of progesterone. 00:21:48.720 --> 00:22:00.640 So there's a way to misinterpret everything. Well, that's what I'm always finding. So you're 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:05.600 saying that if you get on estrogen, because what, like I said, people say when they get 00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:12.560 off estrogen therapy, my cholesterol levels elevated, and you're saying that is happening 00:22:12.560 --> 00:22:17.120 because maybe of the damage to the liver, or am I getting that the opposite? 00:22:17.120 --> 00:22:26.240 Well, the liver and intestine are major sources that every cell can make 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:35.760 cholesterol. So when you're under stress of any sort, you'll increase your cholesterol production, 00:22:35.760 --> 00:22:41.520 potentially increasing progesterone. So would it make sense that taking estrogen 00:22:41.520 --> 00:22:45.120 therapy would elevate cholesterol or lower cholesterol? 00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:52.320 They saw that for years with birth control pills. That was the only acknowledged 00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:54.560 effect of estrogen. 00:22:54.560 --> 00:22:57.200 That it was lower in cholesterol levels? 00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.160 I know that it would increase them. 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:04.480 Oh, that it would increase them. Okay, so birth control would, 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.440 so you're saying that estrogen will elevate cholesterol levels? 00:23:09.120 --> 00:23:11.440 Yeah, that's one of its potential effects. 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:18.000 Okay, so I'm so I actually knew someone that said she got off of her estrogen therapy, 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.640 and then her cholesterol elevated, and her explanation from her doctor was, well, 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:28.480 estrogen is protective to your heart, meaning, you know, they were saying so it has this effect, 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:33.920 and that's why her cholesterol elevated post getting off the estrogen therapy. So I don't 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:38.160 know if there was another mechanism going on there. But that was something that I have heard 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.120 anecdotally. Is there any explanation for that? 00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:47.520 Hello. 00:23:47.520 --> 00:23:51.360 Was that a question? 00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a question. Would there ever be a reason 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.040 where estrogen therapy would have a cholesterol lowering effect? 00:23:57.040 --> 00:24:05.360 I'm sure there are situations where that can happen. 00:24:06.560 --> 00:24:09.760 Okay, okay. Not normally. 00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:17.120 If you poison the liver adequately, it can't make for cholesterol. 00:24:17.120 --> 00:24:19.600 Okay, that makes sense. 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:27.840 PUFA, PUFA, for example, very, very high level of PUFA will lower your ability to make cholesterol. 00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:33.200 Yes. Yeah, well, and the same person had a lot of stress going on at this period of time too, 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:37.360 so that could have just been another variable that created the elevation cholesterol. 00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:44.560 So can we just say a little bit about, obviously, there's lots of talk that being on estrogen 00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:49.760 therapy can be protective against Alzheimer's. It can be helpful for the brain, which I always have 00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:53.360 assumed that would be the opposite. Can you explain maybe why they're getting some of these 00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:56.960 results that people on estrogen therapy have less chances of Alzheimer's? 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:08.240 All through the 1990s, the data came out clearly showing that women have two or three times the 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:17.760 incidence of Alzheimer's disease. Naturally, the doctor said, "Oh, that's because they're deficient 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:31.360 in the estrogen." But after the Women's Health Initiative showed that in this huge number of 00:25:31.360 --> 00:25:40.800 people in the research, that their dementia and Alzheimer's disease were clearly elevated 00:25:41.360 --> 00:25:49.600 when they took estrogen. So that very strongly suggests that a woman's history of the estrogen 00:25:49.600 --> 00:25:56.720 exposure is why women have about three times as much risk of Alzheimer's disease. 00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:04.400 And doesn't estrogen have an effect immediately on the brain? Because some people say, "I take my 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:09.680 estrogen there, my estrogen, and I can feel like that my brain is working better." So doesn't it 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:18.400 have a slight excitatory effect on the brain? It is excitatory. Katharina Dalton in the 1940s 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:29.040 and 50s was doing good studies on treating her patients for premature birth, toxemia, 00:26:29.040 --> 00:26:39.200 and especially premenstrual syndrome by giving them progesterone. One of the main things she 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:50.640 saw was that in the progesterone deficiency, any time they were experiencing a progesterone deficiency, 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:58.720 their ability to pass a test in school was severely impaired. 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:12.960 There have been studies of why women speak faster, use more words per minute than men, 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:22.800 and estrogen will accelerate the verbalization of women. 00:27:25.600 --> 00:27:33.760 The number of words per minute simply is faster in general in women. That's the excitatory effect. 00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:42.400 But when you compare the information transmitted by fast talkers and slow talkers, 00:27:43.840 --> 00:27:56.480 the information per word is much higher in the slow talkers. They allow the context and 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:06.640 more complex significance to accumulate as they formulate their sentences. But if you talk very 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:18.480 fast, you're talking mostly in cliches, not letting the information come through in an enriched form. 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:27.680 Essentially, what you're saying is estrogen on the brain is like cocaine on the brain. 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:39.520 Very similar in animal studies in the 1950s and '60s. For example, they would train an animal 00:28:39.520 --> 00:28:47.920 so that every trial over a period of an hour, maybe, would get better and better 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:59.280 and finally reach 100% performance. If they would give a little extra estrogen to the animal, 00:29:00.080 --> 00:29:08.160 it erased their learning. There was no gain from experience because the estrogen was 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:16.640 simply erasing memory. That's good to know that it's not sugar that we should equate to 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:23.200 cocaine. It is estrogen more likely that creating that excitatory manner, so another interesting 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:31.440 part. Cocaine increases all of the stress processes, blocking good nerve function 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:42.080 where glucose is one of the protective things against stress necessary for good relaxed brain 00:29:42.080 --> 00:29:49.840 functioning. There we have it. One thing that I noticed in this book is I went through all the 00:29:49.840 --> 00:29:54.560 references and the resources and the things that they said that is that a lot of the studies were 00:29:54.560 --> 00:30:00.160 anywhere from four to 10 years when they talk about maybe some of these benefits or that they 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:07.360 found that taking estrogen therapy didn't increase some sorts of cancer. I know you've always said 00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:15.280 that it can take a lot longer. If someone taking estrogen therapy for decades, could it take 00:30:16.320 --> 00:30:20.720 a lot of time for them really to see the negative effects of their estrogen therapy? 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:29.120 It's pretty similar to the effects of radiation. If you look at a woman's peak estrogen production 00:30:29.120 --> 00:30:41.200 around age 38, 20 years later, a little more than about 20 years, you see the age-specific rate of 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:53.120 breast cancer takes a sudden increase in the late 50s, 20 years later. If you look at the effect of an 00:30:53.120 --> 00:31:07.040 early puberty and in the U.S., puberty is starting as early as age 7, the younger age of puberty is 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:18.960 decreasing the youngest age-specific breast cancer rate with now women in their 20s and 30s 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:26.880 have had a recent sharp rise in breast cancer risk and occurrence. 00:31:29.600 --> 00:31:39.680 If you look 50 years later, 50 years for example, after that peak at the age of 38, 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:52.480 the absolute highest age-specific cancer mortality is around age 85 to 89. So it takes, 00:31:53.360 --> 00:32:01.120 in that case, from 20 to 50 years for the estrogen to have full effect, 00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.240 pretty much the same with the radiation. 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:11.440 Wow, interesting. I think it's just good when even looking at some of the research, 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.840 when we look at estrogen therapy, I feel like after the Women's Health Initiative, 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:23.840 because they did show at that point in time that HRT was creating a somewhat increase in breast 00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:27.440 cancer in women. Obviously, that's where they stopped it, but since then, it seems that they've 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:34.320 been fighting that in a lot of researches. Even the professors at Stanford who were involved 00:32:34.320 --> 00:32:43.440 in designing the WHI study, which cost hundreds of millions of dollars of the public money, 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:49.680 when the results came out, even though they had participated in designing the study, 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:57.840 it didn't suit their expectations. And so they rejected it, said there must be something wrong, 00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:07.600 even though they approved of the study in advance. And the Stanford people were just 00:33:08.800 --> 00:33:19.360 the most outrageous cases, but the whole medical profession was under the financing 00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:27.600 of the estrogen industry. They were churning out, especially in the 80s and 90s, when the actual 00:33:27.600 --> 00:33:38.400 science was putting the industry at risk by showing what estrogen is actually doing. The 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:48.800 industry got busy and placed phony articles in the most influential journals through the 80s and 90s. 00:33:49.840 --> 00:34:00.320 And so everywhere you looked, there was an article saying that estrogen therapy prevented osteoporosis, 00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:18.000 dementia, heart disease, another one, and extended longevity. But a 2004 paper published in 00:34:18.560 --> 00:34:27.520 Archives of Internal Medicine showed that they said estrogen therapy improved the quality of life. 00:34:27.520 --> 00:34:33.840 Women didn't like to have hot flashes, but unfortunately it shortened their longevity. 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:46.400 So there were studies looking at the actual facts that didn't suit the established view 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:57.440 of the medical profession. So the professors and doctors and journal editors all hated the outcome 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:09.200 of the Women's Health Initiative, but there was hundreds of times a bigger database for that study. 00:35:10.160 --> 00:35:22.400 They preferred the publications with maybe 100 cases or 200 cases and so on. 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:34.080 Just before the Women's Health Initiative, since 1975, the National Cancer Institute 00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:44.480 had been keeping data on almost half of the total United States population called the SEER study. 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:59.520 Surveillance, epidemiology, and the end result is what it stood for. But for example, their data 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:09.040 covered 350,000 cases of breast cancer. And then you have the one like the recent 00:36:09.040 --> 00:36:20.640 Japanese study of 164 cases. And people like Bluming and Tavris go with the results 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:32.720 based on 164 cases in Japan rather than 350,000 cases in the US, which are strongly supported 00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:42.160 even more so than the Women's Health Initiative. The design of the WHI 00:36:42.160 --> 00:36:50.480 helped to make it look like there was less risk than the actual National Cancer Institute data. 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:57.040 So that's an interesting place to look. I haven't even heard of that in the SEER study. 00:36:57.040 --> 00:37:10.720 Probably the biggest, most obvious disproof of people like the spoke you mentioned 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:25.760 is that in 2002, when the data from the study were published, there was a tremendous drop off 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:34.560 in use, filling prescriptions for estrogen, and even fewer doctors writing prescriptions. 00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:47.200 And the sales by Wyeth of Premarin dropped so sharply in just one year. It was almost a billion 00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:54.640 dollars of sales loss. And that continued over several years. And when they were using much less 00:37:54.640 --> 00:38:06.080 estrogen, there was a historically huge decrease in mortality from breast cancer, starting almost 00:38:06.080 --> 00:38:18.000 immediately. And the immediate results are going to be amplified 20, 30, 40 years later. But in the 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:28.720 first few years, it was already evident about a 10% decrease in breast cancer. And that amounts to 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:37.680 thousands of women not dying from breast cancer because they stopped taking their hormone 00:38:37.680 --> 00:38:45.600 replacement. Yeah, I think that's definitely some data showing that it definitely had an effect. 00:38:45.600 --> 00:38:50.240 One thing I wanted to kind of go back on real quick, because obviously a lot of women take 00:38:50.240 --> 00:38:55.600 hormone replacement because they have horrible hot flashes. And it obviously works. They can 00:38:55.600 --> 00:39:01.440 take it and their hot flashes. Can you explain maybe the mechanism of why estrogen helps to get 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:15.280 rid of hot flashes? The blood sugar and nitric oxide. Nitric oxide is what lowers your body 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:24.800 temperature during a hot flash by letting the heat come to the surface. And nitric oxide is 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:35.920 it happens that estrogen is a great activator of nitric oxide. But a falling blood glucose or 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:43.520 ability to use the glucose will increase your nitric oxide and cause a hot flash. 00:39:43.520 --> 00:39:53.520 So things that interfere with glucose use are going to increase your hot flashes. 00:39:54.400 --> 00:40:04.160 And you can clearly stop night sweats and hot flashes by just taking something 00:40:04.160 --> 00:40:13.120 like a concentrated slurry of corn starch, some way of keeping your blood sugar up steadily 00:40:13.120 --> 00:40:19.280 will stop the hot flashes. Progesterone is the normal way to turn off 00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:28.160 nitric oxide. Keep your body temperature higher while estrogen causes you to lower your temperature. 00:40:28.160 --> 00:40:37.120 The natural tendency of estrogen to increase nitrogen oxide 00:40:37.120 --> 00:40:46.480 leads to the vasodilation and reducing body temperature. So people using estrogen 00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:52.480 have a lower body temperature. People using progesterone have a higher body temperature. 00:40:52.480 --> 00:41:05.600 When your progesterone fails, the vasodilation lets the blood circulate to the surface so you feel 00:41:05.600 --> 00:41:19.440 flesh sweaty and hot as your temperature falls. So all of the mechanisms suggest that estrogen 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:27.120 imbalance relative to progesterone is what is causing the hot flashes. 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:38.160 The fact that you can stop a hot flash with estrogen is probably because 00:41:38.160 --> 00:41:49.680 estrogen activates cortisol and other stress hormones that block the metabolism of estrogen 00:41:51.600 --> 00:42:03.760 and that has the potential to inhibit nitric oxide synthesis. So nitric oxide will 00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:09.680 increase estrogen though? Don't they kind of all work together so it's just that the overabundance 00:42:09.680 --> 00:42:15.040 can inhibit it? Can you kind of go over that one more time? It tends to be a vicious circle, 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:26.960 but estrogen is one of the estrogen and stress and hypoglycemia will all activate nitric oxide 00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:36.240 and progesterone inhibits it partly by keeping a steady sugar metabolism, maintaining body 00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:46.960 temperature, but a lower body temperature creates a vicious circle including the production of more 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:54.000 estrogen. Right, but you would think that that would actually increase the hot flash, not decrease it? 00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:05.200 Yeah, the known mechanisms of vasodilation are strongly in that direction, but you can override 00:43:06.080 --> 00:43:16.560 those things by surges of stress hormones. Adrenaline shrinks your blood vessels, serotonin 00:43:16.560 --> 00:43:25.840 shrinks the blood vessels as well as reducing heat production. So the stress hormones activated by 00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:35.600 an overdose, gigantic overdose of estrogen turning on adrenaline cortisol and serotonin, 00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:45.440 that can block the nitric oxide effects on the blood vessels. Okay, so essentially I think that 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.560 anybody is on estrogen therapy, I think it's probably important to check your body temperature 00:43:50.560 --> 00:43:55.840 and pulse and see how your body is actually regulating to see if you're actually getting 00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:03.680 a proper response from the hormones you're taking. Yeah, and looking at the research of the role of 00:44:03.680 --> 00:44:12.720 carbohydrate, just taking a big bowl of oatmeal before bedtime, for example, will help to keep 00:44:12.720 --> 00:44:21.680 your blood sugar up longer and prevent night sweats and hot flashes. Yeah, and I know you've always 00:44:21.680 --> 00:44:27.360 said, and I have seen at work with women that some of the best mechanisms for really helping 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:33.520 with hot flashes without estrogen are regulating your blood sugar, utilizing a high carbohydrate 00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:40.560 drink or food, and that can help. And also using progesterone is always both really, really 00:44:40.560 --> 00:44:45.600 effective for helping with hot flashes. Is there anything else that you can think of that would 00:44:45.600 --> 00:44:54.000 help with hot flashes? Yeah, watching your thyroid function closely without that your estrogen 00:44:54.000 --> 00:45:01.600 progesterone balance goes wrong. Right, so then that would be also then supporting your detoxification 00:45:01.600 --> 00:45:05.360 methods, because obviously as women get older, there's going to be an imbalance of the estrogen 00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:12.320 progesterone and then just detoxify that excess estrogen. So yeah, and supporting the thyroid 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:20.160 function, there are things like getting enough calcium and vitamin D in your diet to keep your 00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:28.960 metabolic rate up in the same direction as the thyroid function, which is just the perfect part 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:35.200 of just to kind of streamline into our next topic, which we are going to talk about dairy and milk 00:45:35.200 --> 00:45:45.040 and calcium and how it's all very important to us. Because obviously, dairy is important to our bone 00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:50.400 health, and it obviously plays a role in us preventing from osteoporosis. Can you kind of talk 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.520 about because obviously, people go back and forth with milk and dairy and you hear these studies 00:45:55.520 --> 00:46:01.280 where hey, if they have more dairy, they actually have increases chances of osteoporosis. Can you 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:08.240 maybe explain why that could happen and the importance of milk in bone health? If you select 00:46:08.240 --> 00:46:20.880 your data very well, look at certain countries, you can find populations that have that particular 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:33.360 correlation, but not if you look at everything else they're doing. The anti-milk cult has many 00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:44.960 dimensions. Some of it is just outright neurotic fear, for example, that they think there's something 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:59.440 unnatural about breastfeeding in itself. To drink cow's milk is a claim that is against God's plan 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:06.960 and all sorts of things, but I think there's something Freudian and psychiatric behind 00:47:07.600 --> 00:47:17.360 much of the anti-milk cult. When you look at animal experiments, milk and sugar 00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:25.520 happen to be very clearly protected from bone strength as well as bone mineralization, 00:47:25.520 --> 00:47:28.400 and bone strength is the important thing. 00:47:31.040 --> 00:47:37.440 Right, so is there a preference? Because obviously, dairy is important. 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:42.480 Can someone just take calcium supplements and get the same effects? 00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:51.360 For some reason, for various reasons, medical prescriptions have usually favored 00:47:53.200 --> 00:48:04.400 calcium citrate, sometimes gluconate, but the gluconate tablet is somewhat less effective. 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:15.440 The citrate doesn't work simply. The extra citric acid in itself 00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:24.880 disturbs your physiology. They think of it as neutral because orange juice, for example, 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:32.720 has lots of it, and they think of orange juice as necessarily being beneficial, but taking in 00:48:32.720 --> 00:48:41.280 citric acid from the outside is very different from the citric acid produced in our own 00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:50.320 metabolism and getting into the wrong compartments can even change our resistance to cancer. 00:48:50.320 --> 00:49:04.880 So the closest to physiological would be calcium carbonate, but even that fails to be absorbed as 00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:17.680 well because in milk you have the, especially lactose, but any sugar, glucose from ordinary 00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:27.360 sugar works almost as well as lactose for stimulating calcium absorption. So if you're 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:34.320 going to try to get it from calcium carbonate, for example, you should make sure you're taking 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:43.120 it with adequate carbohydrate. So essentially if somebody isn't able to have milk or dairy for one 00:49:43.120 --> 00:49:47.840 reason, one thing they can do is take calcium carbonate, which is also eggshell calcium that 00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:53.040 you can make on your own, and having it with something like orange juice would help facilitate 00:49:53.040 --> 00:49:59.600 a better absorption. Is that right? Yeah, except even when orange juice, the citric acid 00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:10.640 isn't an official thing. The best orange juice has almost no citric acid, it's a sign of stress. 00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:16.800 Yeah, consuming calcium carbonate with the orange juice with the sugar would help facilitate 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:21.520 increasing calcium carbonate. Yeah, the sugar is a really important thing. 00:50:21.520 --> 00:50:28.640 Okay, so that would be a decent option for someone. What about, because there's a lot of 00:50:28.640 --> 00:50:34.080 talk about what happens to the body under stress and that when we're under stress, we 00:50:34.080 --> 00:50:40.560 take in too much calcium and we take in too much calcium, that calcium goes and goes to our tissue. 00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:47.760 Is that what's happening? Can we take in too much calcium or where is the calcium coming that is 00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:56.320 basically in someone's tissue? The parathyroid hormone, which takes calcium out of your bones, 00:50:57.120 --> 00:51:08.960 does it by increasing fermentation, by producing lactic acid in the bone, and in the presence of 00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:18.720 carbon dioxide and carbonic acid, calcium goes into your bone, but parathyroid hormone reverses 00:51:18.720 --> 00:51:27.200 that process, decreasing CO2 and increasing lactic acid, getting the calcium out of your bone, 00:51:27.200 --> 00:51:39.600 putting it in your bloodstream, and also shifting the balance generally of lactic acid, causing 00:51:39.600 --> 00:51:47.360 the calcium to accumulate in soft tissues at the same time that it comes out of bones where it 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:59.520 belongs. And if you don't eat enough calcium and have adequate vitamin D, your parathyroid hormone 00:51:59.520 --> 00:52:07.760 rises, and so you have less calcium in your bones, more in your soft tissues. 00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:18.560 So people who don't consume enough calcium will get calcified arteries and calcified nerves 00:52:18.560 --> 00:52:28.560 and other tissues. So you have to think about what happens when you get adequate 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:40.480 calcium and vitamin D, that you inhibit the parathyroid hormone and also inhibit the conversion 00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:52.640 of 25-hydroxy vitamin D into 1,25-hydroxy vitamin D, which is called the active 00:52:53.440 --> 00:53:02.480 vitamin D, but actually it's a stress-related factor that goes with all of the toxic effects of 00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:13.120 excess calcium. Okay, so I'm going to go back a little bit here because I think we need to 00:53:13.120 --> 00:53:18.800 chat a little bit about a few of these things. I think the first thing you said is if you consumed 00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:25.760 vitamin D or you had adequate vitamin D but did not consume enough calcium, your parathyroid hormone 00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:31.120 would elevate pulling the calcium from the bones and that would pull it into the tissue. Is that 00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:40.480 correct? For the presence of D without calcium, I'm only saying that because obviously there's 00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:46.240 people out there taking lots of vitamin D right now and maybe not consuming enough calcium. And 00:53:46.240 --> 00:53:53.680 so with that person, they could be creating hypercalcemia or calcium in the tissue. Is that 00:53:53.680 --> 00:54:02.000 correct? Yeah, the combination of vitamin D in the diet or from sunlight plus adequate calcium 00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:15.200 and magnesium is necessary to keep a parathyroid hormone down and the active 1,25-hydroxy vitamin D 00:54:15.200 --> 00:54:22.720 down. Okay, so I just want people to understand that because there's a lot of D controversy, 00:54:22.720 --> 00:54:28.720 and I don't know if I want to really talk about in depth in this conversation, but taking D 00:54:28.720 --> 00:54:36.000 without calcium and some of the other mechanisms like magnesium can create a atmosphere that isn't 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:42.160 very good for you, which it could create calcium getting into the tissue, which is what you do not 00:54:42.160 --> 00:54:51.840 want, correct? Yeah, and taking 400 units of vitamin D daily, which a lot of doctors 00:54:51.840 --> 00:55:01.280 claim is adequate, is essentially nothing. And so you see publications saying that 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:09.440 vitamin D is absolutely ineffective at preventing heart disease and hardening of the arteries and 00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:22.560 so on. But that's because they prescribe only 400 units per day or to effectively raise the 00:55:22.560 --> 00:55:30.480 circulating vitamin D to the point that it corrects things, takes usually around four or five thousand 00:55:32.240 --> 00:55:39.920 units of vitamin D. Yeah, so is there any evidence, because obviously as people age, 00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:45.120 they get calcifications of the tissue and the calcium is going in the wrong places. And 00:55:45.120 --> 00:55:53.840 would that just happen from people ingesting too much calcium or is it more likely coming 00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:58.880 from a stressed system, which isn't balanced, probably isn't getting enough calcium or isn't 00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:03.440 able to absorb it and now the body is elevating the parathyroid hormone and now it's pulling it 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:13.200 from the bones? Yeah, anything that cuts your energy metabolism or that overstimulates cells, 00:56:13.200 --> 00:56:20.800 they amount to the same thing. When you overstimulate a cell, it doesn't have adequate energy. 00:56:22.560 --> 00:56:32.160 And the excitotoxic amino acids, for example, will overstimulate a cell, cause it to take up 00:56:32.160 --> 00:56:42.000 calcium improperly, which can lead to calcification and cancerization. And blocking 00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:50.960 adequate energy production also causes cells to take up calcium, keeping them in the excited, 00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:58.160 de-energized state. Gotcha. And something you said a little bit ago, you were referencing 00:56:58.160 --> 00:57:04.800 the importance of carbon dioxide in calcium metabolism. Can you kind of talk about that 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:10.080 again about why it's so important to have enough carbon dioxide? Because obviously we know that 00:57:10.080 --> 00:57:16.880 carbon dioxide is produced highly in a glucose metabolism over any other type of macronutrient 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:23.360 metabolism. So how it is really important to be metabolizing sugars, because obviously that 00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:28.240 produces the most carbon dioxide. And why is that important in calcium metabolism? 00:57:28.240 --> 00:57:36.320 Most people have now at least heard of the so-called Randle cycle in which 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:47.440 oxidizing fat blocks the oxidation of glucose and vice versa. The oxidizing glucose 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:59.840 helps you not to oxidize fat, but to dispose of it in safer ways. And CO2, once it's produced 00:58:01.520 --> 00:58:13.680 and keeping your fat oxidation low, the CO2 directly turns off lactic acid production 00:58:13.680 --> 00:58:26.400 and has a directly quieting effect on cells. And as it's produced continuously in an active cell, 00:58:27.520 --> 00:58:40.320 it and its carbonic anhydrase activated carbonic acid, as that streams continuously 00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:47.760 out of the cell, it takes calcium with it. So metabolizing glucose 00:58:49.200 --> 00:58:59.120 facilitates the anti-excitatory pro-energy function of the glucose oxidation 00:58:59.120 --> 00:59:06.160 by this anti-excitatory effect of the carbon dioxide. 00:59:06.160 --> 00:59:14.400 So what I'm hearing is it is the increased amount of lactic acid that could be greatly increasing 00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:20.480 the chance of the calcium going into the tissue. Is that correct? Because I definitely see that 00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:29.600 in diabetics and they start losing a lot of bone density. And they can't oxidize their glucose, 00:59:29.600 --> 00:59:37.760 but what they can do is turn it into lactic acid. And even if it doesn't reach the point of 00:59:39.040 --> 00:59:47.200 deadly lactic acidosis, it's always there tending to raise their free fatty acids. 00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:56.480 And the raised blood level fatty acids is constantly interfering with the ability to 00:59:56.480 --> 01:00:12.080 oxidize glucose. So the essence of diabetes is in the actions of lactate and free fatty acids. 01:00:12.080 --> 01:00:15.200 They create a vicious circle. 01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:23.120 Got it. Interesting. Okay. So I think that's an important factor to discuss because obviously 01:00:23.120 --> 01:00:30.640 calcium metabolism needs carbon dioxide in a body that is using fat as fuel. Carbon dioxide 01:00:30.640 --> 01:00:34.720 is going to greatly decrease. So for some of those people, they're not going to be metabolizing 01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:43.200 calcium properly because of that state. Is that correct? Yeah, the circulating lactate should be 01:00:44.080 --> 01:00:54.400 at the very minimum. Gotcha. Okay. So I'm just going to skip down to going back to milk because 01:00:54.400 --> 01:01:00.320 again, milk is getting off on the calcium tangent, but I do want to talk about some of the myths 01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:06.560 about milk and maybe we'll go over these. And one of those is the lactose intolerant. Everyone 01:01:06.560 --> 01:01:11.760 thinks that there's obviously two thirds of the population of this world can't tolerate milk 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:17.760 because they're lactose intolerant. Is there a reason for that? Why can't they tolerate milk? 01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:23.600 Is it the genetic or is it maybe because once it's just their culture and they stopped being 01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:29.200 fed milk at a young age and now they can't tolerate it? There have been studies on the 01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:42.800 Chinese who are among the so-called genetically lactose intolerant people. And in experiments, 01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:52.960 they simply had them add starting with half a glass of milk with a meal which didn't cause any 01:01:53.680 --> 01:02:02.960 disturbance. But if they keep that up for a few weeks, the presence of the lactose 01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:17.840 gradually reinduces or restores the production of the lactase enzyme which every baby has 01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:27.040 and which is turned off when they stop drinking milk. And so if you don't stop drinking milk, 01:02:27.040 --> 01:02:37.840 you don't become lactose intolerant. But like the Chinese, if you chronically re-expose them 01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:46.320 to lactose, they can develop the enzymes. Yeah, so I think that that's a myth that 01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:51.040 can be debunked because there's definitely an argument in the anti-milk community that 01:02:51.040 --> 01:02:56.320 milk isn't that great because so much of the world's population can't consume it, 01:02:56.320 --> 01:03:03.280 but ultimately they could. They could bring it back into their diet very slowly and they 01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:08.000 could start producing the enzyme because like all things in the human body, if we don't 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:13.120 drink milk, our body stops producing the enzyme essentially, correct? Isn't that what happens? 01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:24.560 Right. About 30 or 40 years ago, the U.S. government was giving foreign aid, some of it 01:03:24.560 --> 01:03:34.320 in the form of powdered milk, but the people who wanted them to buy waste from the fish industry, 01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:47.600 powdered fish, for example, promoted the idea that giving powdered milk to family areas 01:03:47.600 --> 01:03:57.120 was bad for the people. You should give them fish powder, but it was really a 01:03:58.640 --> 01:04:07.440 mark of influence, a pressure on the government that helped to amplify the doctrine that 01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:19.360 most of the world is lactose intolerant. Gotcha. So for people that later in life say, 01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:25.840 "I used to be able to tolerate milk, but now I can't tolerate milk," what would be some factors 01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:33.600 that may give somebody a lactose intolerance later in life? Well, often it's something else about the 01:04:33.600 --> 01:04:48.080 milk. A lot of people just are determined to have raw organic milk, and there have been two big 01:04:48.080 --> 01:04:55.760 dairies that I've tried to drink the organic milk from, and the milk tastes so bad. In one of the 01:04:55.760 --> 01:05:08.560 cases, I looked on the map and there is a factory on I-5, I think it was called Wotang, that produced 01:05:08.560 --> 01:05:17.840 a toxic metal for the government military, and the odor permeates miles around it. 01:05:18.240 --> 01:05:27.680 This organic dairy was very close to the factory, downwind from it, and so the cows were 01:05:27.680 --> 01:05:32.960 constantly breathing at the horrible sink and it showed up in the milk, even though 01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:41.200 technically it was organic. The milk was making me sick. That happened with two or three 01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:50.160 brands of organic milk, and I simply found that the most common reason was that they 01:05:50.160 --> 01:06:04.000 allowed their cows to graze on weeds rather than known grass or clover, and many weeds are very 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:11.360 bad-tasting. Many of them are allergenic. Breastfeeding women often have the experience that 01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:21.120 if they eat certain foods, the baby becomes constipated or develops related symptoms 01:06:21.120 --> 01:06:30.560 because the allergens go right into the milk. So if the cow grazes on allergenic weeds, 01:06:31.200 --> 01:06:40.080 the milk is allergenic. So good-tasting milk, whether it's organic or not, is a good bet 01:06:40.080 --> 01:06:50.880 that it is less allergenic, and also highly pasteurized milk kills some of the bacteria 01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:57.360 that people are sensitive to. So it's a matter of finding the milk that agrees with you, 01:06:58.160 --> 01:07:05.280 and none of that has to do with lactose. Well, I'm going to touch on that, but 01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:11.840 can stress be a factor in producing the lactose enzyme so that that would affect 01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:17.200 someone? So what I certainly see is people under severe amount of stress don't tolerate milk. 01:07:17.200 --> 01:07:25.840 Hypothyroidism and low progesterone interfere with the production of lactase enzyme. 01:07:26.640 --> 01:07:34.560 Yeah. So could just improving thyroid function and getting out of stress improve 01:07:34.560 --> 01:07:39.120 someone's ability to tolerate milk? Very often, that's all it takes. 01:07:39.120 --> 01:07:44.080 Yeah, right. And then also then kind of going off what you just said, I think it's important to 01:07:44.080 --> 01:07:50.240 understand that it's important to find what milk works for you. And for some people, 01:07:50.240 --> 01:07:54.960 it is a raw milk, works best for them, and they feel great on that. And then for others, 01:07:54.960 --> 01:07:59.760 it's ultra pasteurized, or it could be pasteurized for other reasons. And that's maybe why they 01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:05.280 tolerate. So it's important to not just try one, that if you're trying to bring milk back into 01:08:05.280 --> 01:08:09.840 your life to try a variety of different milks and to try to find one that works for you. 01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:16.640 Getting on that, and I'm going to jump into another thought that people have is a casein 01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:24.960 allergy. Is this a true allergy? Or what else could it be if somebody feels they have a casein 01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:28.640 issue with dairy? With the what issue? 01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:35.280 Casein, the other protein, besides the way, people say they have a casein allergy. 01:08:36.480 --> 01:08:49.120 Yeah, some of the studies are based on chemical breakdown of casein. And then even chemically 01:08:49.120 --> 01:08:57.280 hydrolyzing it, which is not the same as digesting it in your stomach and intestine. They test 01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:06.960 the toxicity of the broken down casein. For example, by injecting it into a mouse brain, 01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:17.120 absolutely nothing to do with the way milk is used under chest. So there's a lot of extreme 01:09:17.120 --> 01:09:27.440 illogical propaganda attached to the idea that one kind of casein is better than another. 01:09:27.440 --> 01:09:32.800 Right. But I think that some people will consume something like cheese and think, 01:09:32.800 --> 01:09:37.360 because it doesn't have a lot of lactose, because everyone's either lactose or casein and go, well, 01:09:37.360 --> 01:09:43.120 I don't do well on that. So I must have a casein issue or casein intolerance or casein allergy. 01:09:43.120 --> 01:09:48.320 And I mean, could it be maybe something else in that cheese that would be the craziest issue? 01:09:49.840 --> 01:09:58.240 About I guess it's been more than 10 years ago, there were several brands of American cheese 01:09:58.240 --> 01:10:09.680 imitating traditional European brands. And I was eating a particular good kind, 01:10:10.480 --> 01:10:19.840 I think it was from Vermont. And I noticed suddenly, it had an unfamiliar soft, moist texture. 01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:28.800 And then after eating it for a few days, I started getting bowel inflammation symptoms. 01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:37.920 And so I checked the labels, and they had suddenly changed from animal rennet to so-called 01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:49.520 vegetable rennet, which means, in most cases, genetically engineered microbial enzyme producers, 01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:57.760 which always carry allergens from the microbe. So I changed to another American cheese 01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:08.480 that was traditional, and in a short time, the texture of that became softer, more slightly 01:11:08.480 --> 01:11:14.800 different taste. And then I got sick. That happened with three American brands before I 01:11:14.800 --> 01:11:26.800 investigated in detail and found out that by that time, two thirds of all cheese in the world 01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:35.920 was no longer made with animal rennet, but with these genetically modified microorganisms producing 01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:45.920 only usually one single enzyme rather than the natural complex of enzymes occurring in rennet. 01:11:47.360 --> 01:11:57.440 So the industry of genetically engineered enzyme has almost completely taken over 01:11:57.440 --> 01:12:06.160 world cheese production. So you have to very carefully read the labels and interpret labels 01:12:06.160 --> 01:12:16.640 that they're using the language more and more slightly so that people will not dig too deeply 01:12:17.280 --> 01:12:22.480 and find the genetic modified organisms in their food. 01:12:22.480 --> 01:12:27.200 Are they allowed to put these, because I've seen them all the time, 01:12:27.200 --> 01:12:33.680 it's a vegetable rennet, it seems to be prevalent in so much cheese, can they put that in a organic 01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:41.040 cheese? In a what cheese? In an organic. So if it says organic cheese. Oh yeah, yeah, the 01:12:42.400 --> 01:12:49.200 cheese makers have pretty much damaged the idea of what really is organic. 01:12:49.200 --> 01:12:54.000 So that's allowed to put in a vegetable rennet that's been engineered. 01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:01.040 Yeah, there is no rennet other than made by a cow's stomach or a calf's stomach. 01:13:01.040 --> 01:13:08.320 Right, but some of these cheeses are putting in this vegetable rennet. So is that allowed? 01:13:09.760 --> 01:13:17.120 That's a total dishonesty. There is no such thing as a vegetable rennet. It's like saying 01:13:17.120 --> 01:13:22.640 butter made from cottonseed oil. 01:13:22.640 --> 01:13:26.160 I see. So it's just their terminology, but it isn't really that. 01:13:26.160 --> 01:13:28.480 Yeah, or soy milk. 01:13:28.480 --> 01:13:36.560 Well, we have soy milk as in anything. It's just, you know, man, it removes the man from people. 01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:48.480 Yeah, but to use the word milk in such a situation, one of the worst foods gets the name of one of the 01:13:48.480 --> 01:13:55.680 best foods. Yes. Okay. So basically food manufacturers are using certain terminologies to make you think 01:13:55.680 --> 01:13:59.120 you're getting something. I think they use that because everybody's so plant based right now, 01:13:59.120 --> 01:14:03.200 they think they're getting something better when in fact, they're absolutely not getting something. 01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:10.400 Okay, so what about people talk about the hormones in milk? They're like, I'm afraid of milk because 01:14:10.400 --> 01:14:18.240 it has all this estrogen or progesterone in it or whatever. Is this affecting people's health? 01:14:18.240 --> 01:14:27.440 Is it something to worry about? The amounts are barely measurable. They probably don't have any 01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:43.360 effect. The progesterone will tend to concentrate in the butter. So it's much larger than the presence 01:14:43.360 --> 01:14:51.680 of other hormones, but all of the animals hormones will show up in the milk and progesterone is a 01:14:51.680 --> 01:15:00.720 major one, especially concentrated in the butter. And it's beneficial, but the quantity is very, very 01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:08.560 low. And most of the hormones would be present in the fat too. I guess that's why it's more prevalent 01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:15.520 in butter. So if somebody consumed a lower fat milk, the hormones would be greatly decreased, 01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:21.600 correct? Yeah. Okay. So if someone has an issue, I've had people say that literally they've been 01:15:21.600 --> 01:15:27.440 had cancer and so they won't drink milk. And I find that doesn't make a lot of sense, 01:15:27.440 --> 01:15:30.640 but I think it's the premise that they think that the hormones are going to affect them. 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:37.760 Yeah, I think it's one of the tricks of the anti-milk cultures. 01:15:37.760 --> 01:15:46.080 Yes, they are out in full force these days. What about people who drink milk and they say, 01:15:46.080 --> 01:15:53.360 milk is giving me acne. What would you say is going on there? Milk does what? Gives them 01:15:53.360 --> 01:16:02.160 acne. They start to get acne on their skin. Yeah, maybe they're drinking too much fat with it. 01:16:05.280 --> 01:16:18.080 Any kind of fat in excess will disturb your skin energy production. And for any cell, 01:16:18.080 --> 01:16:25.520 its functions decrease under the influence of fat rather than sugar. 01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:31.120 So if someone thinks that they're drinking milk and they're getting acne, 01:16:31.120 --> 01:16:39.040 then maybe consuming a lower fat milk would be to their benefit. I think so. Okay. Okay. And 01:16:39.040 --> 01:16:45.200 what about milks linked to increasing insulin growth factor? So that's a conversation as well. 01:16:45.200 --> 01:16:51.760 They think it is having an effect on this growth factor. What would you comment on that? 01:16:54.720 --> 01:17:04.240 It has benefits as well as risks, but the idea that it becomes a danger of accelerated aging 01:17:04.240 --> 01:17:13.600 and cancer and so on. I don't think there's valid evidence that those changes are harmful. 01:17:13.600 --> 01:17:21.360 Okay. So you just see some studies that say that milk is going to increase the insulin 01:17:21.360 --> 01:17:26.160 growth factor and that's going to have a negative effect on certain aspects of people's health. 01:17:26.160 --> 01:17:29.680 And essentially you're just saying at this point, we don't have enough evidence that it's going to 01:17:29.680 --> 01:17:41.040 do anything long-term. Yeah, you can like with vitamin E. There were lots of publications 01:17:41.040 --> 01:17:49.760 over the years showing immense benefits from vitamin E. But then when the industry 01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:59.200 had something else they wanted to sell, they decided to emphasize that vitamin E could be 01:17:59.200 --> 01:18:08.000 a risk. And so they took the very papers that had been published showing changes, 01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:18.400 implying that those changes were in the direction of benefit. But anytime they had a publication 01:18:18.400 --> 01:18:31.040 that says vitamin E changes something, they said, see it introduced a change. That means vitamin E 01:18:31.040 --> 01:18:42.560 is harmful. Everything you do causes almost an infinite number of changes. And you have to 01:18:42.560 --> 01:18:53.040 evaluate whether the weight of the changes in one direction are more effective than weight in the 01:18:53.040 --> 01:19:03.200 other direction. You can't argue anything from one or two factors. That's a propaganda tool 01:19:03.200 --> 01:19:11.680 used all the way anything physiological or biochemical where you have a million influences. 01:19:11.680 --> 01:19:22.320 They find two or three that could be harmful and say therefore you shouldn't do something because 01:19:22.320 --> 01:19:30.080 it causes those changes. But they're ignoring the almost a million other events that could 01:19:30.080 --> 01:19:35.600 be all beneficial. Well, that sounds like what they did with the estrogen therapy. 01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:40.720 They found some things that they liked and then they focused on those and forgot all the other 01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:47.120 things it was doing negatively. Exactly. That's why you have hundreds of thousands of estrogen 01:19:47.120 --> 01:19:55.680 papers, almost all of them saying how wonderful estrogen is. So you have to read each one carefully 01:19:55.680 --> 01:20:08.320 and consider the relatively few publications that show contrary effects, harmful effects. 01:20:09.440 --> 01:20:18.240 And it always turns out that they've carefully selected things that could be beneficial from 01:20:18.240 --> 01:20:25.760 estrogen, not things that are known to be beneficial. And I think this is just a good 01:20:25.760 --> 01:20:32.080 understanding of why having a big picture look at the metabolism and how everything works and 01:20:32.080 --> 01:20:38.320 looking at everything, not just singularly, maybe a single nutrient or a single hormone, 01:20:38.320 --> 01:20:43.360 because if you just single focus, I tend to miss the big picture about how it all works together. 01:20:43.360 --> 01:20:53.200 In fact, that's the essence of science beginning in the 20th century, such a narrow focus, 01:20:53.200 --> 01:21:04.080 mechanistic determinism, whether it's in atomic physics or genetics and physiology. If you narrow 01:21:05.120 --> 01:21:15.040 your attention, you can always become blind to the surrounding benefits to count only what you want. 01:21:15.040 --> 01:21:27.600 Right. Or simply the nature of reductive thinking. Yeah, well, it seems to, you know, they use it in 01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:33.680 a lot of different ways in today's world. When they just want to push an agenda, they can just 01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:39.520 focus on one or two things and forget all the other things. It seems to be a popular way to 01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:45.360 approach science or whatever that you want to call these days. Okay, we got a few more 01:21:45.360 --> 01:21:52.880 questions about milk just to kind of round it up. And this is, I just probably said, what type of 01:21:52.880 --> 01:22:01.120 milk is best? And I think you answered it by the one that works best for you. And how important 01:22:01.120 --> 01:22:06.400 the quality of the animals are being treated and what they're eating. And that is a pretty 01:22:06.400 --> 01:22:13.280 important part. So in your view, is it that important if the milk is raw or pasteurized 01:22:13.280 --> 01:22:19.120 or ultra pasteurized, or even if it has additives in it, it's just basically finding which one works 01:22:19.120 --> 01:22:26.240 for the individual, correct? Okay, so even if a milk has certain additives, because obviously in 01:22:26.240 --> 01:22:33.280 most areas, there's nutrients added to milk that are low fat, but as long as someone can tolerate 01:22:33.280 --> 01:22:40.400 those and seems to do okay, then that is okay. Yeah. Okay. Now what other sources, 01:22:40.400 --> 01:22:45.920 if someone doesn't tolerate milk, where else can they get their calcium sources from? 01:22:47.760 --> 01:22:58.640 As cooked greens have a very high ratio of calcium to phosphorus. And the ratio is of 01:22:58.640 --> 01:23:09.040 major importance. Because too much phosphate turns on the parathyroid hormone, turns off 01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:18.000 useful energy production, and so on. So the excitatory effect of inorganic phosphate 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:31.040 is a real danger. And that has rebalance by the calcium. So cooked greens are a very safe source, 01:23:31.040 --> 01:23:38.320 if you can digest them. Okay. And can you just explain maybe some of the foods that are high 01:23:38.320 --> 01:23:45.360 in phosphorus so people can understand why maybe some diets out there aren't beneficial because 01:23:45.360 --> 01:23:55.920 they might be high in that nutrient? Yeah, the meat and fish, because they have a very low 01:23:55.920 --> 01:24:05.440 calcium content, if the animal is healthy, their soft tissues exclude calcium. So the phosphate 01:24:06.160 --> 01:24:14.960 in the ATP, for example, gives them a very high ratio of phosphate to calcium, nuts, grains, 01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:27.280 legumes. In general, the reproductive tissues are, the phosphate is present. 01:24:27.280 --> 01:24:35.200 So that the storage material can be turned into growth material. 01:24:36.080 --> 01:24:43.680 So when something has a great potential for growth, that means it has to have stored 01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:54.240 phosphate in excess. And that makes beans, nuts and grains, among the worst foods for calcium. 01:24:55.680 --> 01:25:06.800 Okay, so essentially, a diet that's high in dairy, dairy or and or cooked greens, and then balancing 01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:13.040 that with the meat, and maybe minimizing the grains and the beans and the nuts would be 01:25:13.040 --> 01:25:19.840 advantageous. Yeah. What about just because I'm obsessed with this lately? Masa harina, 01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:28.000 is that a decent source of calcium? Oh, yeah, because they add, they boil it in a calcium 01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:41.280 hydroxide and let it sits for overnight. So it soaks up a lot of calcium. My dentist in Mexico says 01:25:42.080 --> 01:25:50.720 in her area where people eat no bread, but lots of tortillas, even people in their 80s who 01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:58.320 insist they want a tooth full. She says sometimes it takes her all afternoon to get a molar out 01:25:58.320 --> 01:26:07.440 because their their jaws and teeth are so well constructed from a chronically good ratio of 01:26:08.160 --> 01:26:13.040 calcium to phosphate. So the masa harina doesn't have a lot of phosphate in it. 01:26:13.040 --> 01:26:23.040 Not compared to the calcium. Okay, so everybody gets some masa harina makes them your own tortillas. 01:26:23.040 --> 01:26:30.800 It's very, very good for you. I can't think of anything else, Kitty. I don't know you've been 01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:34.960 sitting there. Is there any other questions you'd like to ask Ray? I don't think so. I've just been 01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:41.200 listening intently, learning so much. It's amazing. This is a really good episode and it was really 01:26:41.200 --> 01:26:49.600 clear the sound this time. Yeah, well, Ray. Yeah, Ray, thank you. So I mean, this cleared up a lot. 01:26:49.600 --> 01:26:53.920 I actually feel like it pulled a lot of things together and some deep understandings about the 01:26:53.920 --> 01:27:01.760 estrogen therapy and also just about calcium and calcium metabolism and important aspects of 01:27:01.760 --> 01:27:06.800 sugar and carbon dioxide in that. I think those are very key points that I certainly got from this. 01:27:06.800 --> 01:27:16.480 Did you have anything else to share, Ray? Did I mention Steve Kirsch's website? 01:27:16.480 --> 01:27:30.080 He's an MIT graduate who has been exposing science fraud, exposing the absolute disregard for 01:27:30.080 --> 01:27:37.840 science from the great institutions like Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:50.320 Absolutely not caring to discuss the scientific issues. His website, just on the issue of the 01:27:50.320 --> 01:27:57.440 disappearance of science from our culture, it's very important for everyone to think about. 01:27:57.440 --> 01:28:06.000 His last name is Felp, K-I-R-S-C-H. Yes, and he looks like he has a substack. I'm just googling 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:12.880 him right now. So yeah, you kind of touched on him and we were discussing the estrogen therapy 01:28:12.880 --> 01:28:18.880 and how science has changed so much and what they're doing with these days and why we're just 01:28:18.880 --> 01:28:26.560 getting all this, I guess, fake news because of how they're deciding on what is real and what is not. 01:28:27.120 --> 01:28:35.760 So that's what Steve Kirsch, K-I-R-S-C-H, correct? Yeah, so he's worth looking into if anybody is 01:28:35.760 --> 01:28:44.080 interested in going to that rabbit hole, but I'm good. Ray, do you want to just mention your 01:28:44.080 --> 01:28:53.600 newsletter real quick? Oh yeah, it's now going to be quarterly rather than bimonthly and 01:28:54.400 --> 01:29:05.600 overall the price is roughly the same and you can get information at raypeatsnewsletter@gmail.com. 01:29:05.600 --> 01:29:12.320 Yes, I'll pop that in the show notes too. I'll pop that email. Yeah, and I highly, so does that 01:29:12.320 --> 01:29:15.360 mean you're they're going to get the same number, Ray, or they're just going to get, are they 01:29:15.360 --> 01:29:22.080 slowly going to get two years worth? Yeah, the subscription is still for 12 issues, 01:29:22.080 --> 01:29:29.040 which means three years instead of two years because they'll be only four per year. 01:29:29.040 --> 01:29:33.680 I have no idea how you keep up with all that, but God bless you. 01:29:33.680 --> 01:29:42.480 I go when people's things, expire after three years. Amazing. It is amazing. Well, thank you 01:29:42.480 --> 01:29:47.840 again, both Kitty and Ray. Thank you so much. Thanks so much, Ray. Thanks, Kate. And I know Kate's got 01:29:47.840 --> 01:29:51.840 a, we'll have you on again, Ray. I know Kate's got a few other topics that she wants to dive 01:29:51.840 --> 01:30:04.240 into. Okay, very good. Yep. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Peat. Always a pleasure. Bye. Bye.