[Music]
hello welcome
to category five coffee break i'm bp
nine
and then above me on my greed is sobu
give us a way of solving
thank you sir and then next to him on my
right top right is doug
give us a wave doug thank you sir and
then peter is below him and next to me
hello peter
good to see you all right so uh i've had
some
i finally got reinvigorated with the um
uh with the pine time uh that's this
little
device right here it's about time you're
right i've bricked this
several several weeks months ago and i
um and i've always been having a problem
with trying to get it to
uh trying to program it because this
thing
i don't know how well you can see it but
these are the pins
that you have to put in exactly the
right place and hold them in place
really really carefully
until the programming task is complete
which could take you know up to 30
seconds or whatever it is
and if you even tweak if you even move
that thing
by just a little bit you're pretty much
host you've killed it
right so um pine 64
uh sell a set of pogo pins that is on a
it's on an adapter it's on like a pencil
you hold it hold it to the
circuit board like you do a pencil and
it has the four pins lined up exactly
right
and you can hold it there for as long as
you need it and it's solid as a rock
i'm still waiting for it to arrive i
ordered a little while ago and i have no
idea what the postal service is going to
do for me because
i went to the post office yesterday
and picked up two three
months worth of third class mail
magazines and all that fun stuff that uh
you know
aviation magazines and stuff like that
lots of favorites
well yeah i mean i i thought what is
where did all this come from and i had a
look the dates on it were january
february and i think december of last
year as well
so i thought well that's crazy and they
must have been sitting on a truck
in the central depot for quite some time
just waiting for a uh a truck driver to
come and do the little delivery
so yeah but i think you mean that you uh
got the things from america that are not
i'm not from point 64 which is a
device
uh no 0.64 0.64.org i think is the
website
or pine64.com is the website no i
ordered it from pine64.
i checked on amira droids website sorry
ameridroid i did try
but you didn't have any so i also
checked for the main board
on the uh pine phone
um remember i think i see it last week
that
um that the uh usbc adapter on the pine
phone
um you can put a dongle on that
and then you can attach a keyboard and a
mouse and all to the dongle
and even an hdmi out uh output for the
string
theoretically you can power it too but
none of that works on this phone because
the main board on this phone doesn't uh
doesn't allow activation of that um
of that dongle so i'm pretty much hosed
i have my the two choices are i could
replace the main board which is probably
what i'll do
or um and amir droid and i talked about
this
modifying the main board by by literally
removing some components
so they're very small components and to
my point
very hard to understand very hard to
locate so i don't want to rip out the
wrong components
yeah the lava ball before the
motherboard before the one before the
laptop before
uh uh somebody uh gave it to me and uh
they put the uh security uh code on
on the files and you couldn't get it off
so the only way we did it was we changed
the motherboard we paid very little for
the motherboard
and we played old bloody motherboard and
uh it was wow
yeah yeah yeah and no one thought about
removing the battery and
uh leaving it for half an hour it
doesn't work it didn't work it couldn't
that's probably in persistent memory
peter yeah
right right right that's what you locked
he was logged
he couldn't get help yeah so this
so this is completely open hardware um
into the only piece that is not is
the uh uh is the modem
there's a tell or something modem inside
it
um and that's the only piece that's
closed
uh uh so i also spoke with amira droid
quite a bit about
um ophono before i bought this uh before
i bought this pine tone
and i went back and looked at uh at our
um
at our coffee breaks the ones where um
uh the early ones where um uh ameridroid
joined us and um oh
phono is not actually a phone
application that
that brings a screen up on or brings a
window up on the screen
it's the low level driver that drives
the modem
something else has to call iphone oh to
actually make phone calls deal with
texts and do all that sort of fun
stuff so and that thing is called oddly
enough
calls it used to be
it was renamed to gnome calls for like a
month and then
turned back then renamed back to because
so so that's
uh you're right there peter
no not been well done okay okay
so um
so uh that's that's my news i'm
eventually
going to fire up this pine time again
once i get it charged up
and once i get those pogo sticks to all
those pogo pins to
to properly uh uh uh to properly burn
a an image on it so it'll run there's an
image called infinitime which looks like
the most likely uh
uh which looks like the the best thing
to try right now so i'm gonna try that
could you put bluetooth around the benz
no the thing is that the the the um
uh the pogo pins are about the size of
my fountain pen here
which is it's just a fountain pen
there's nothing special about this right
i mean i've shown this to you before
but the pogo pins are on a plastic
carrier that is shaped and sized much
like this
so it really is no problem to just once
you get them in place to just hold it
there
okay okay because i did try to use as
you can see
i did try to use the equivalent of blue
tack on this case
to try and hold the thing in place so
that i could put these here and
and hope the hope against hope that this
thing would hold
long enough to allow me to program it
and i never really did have any luck
with that
so so all right so
boo you can go first what's all going
what's all going on with you sir
as you may uh remember i'm uh
uh packager for the linux editor um
yes yeah any particular distro or no
yeah magaya
yeah it's a fork of uh mandira from
magenta
well okay this is a serbian based or rpm
uh uh it's a it's a co it's uh uh
of a mandible so
oh tell me more so um in uh
a few days i'm gonna i'm waiting uh uh
for a few days for all the
emirates to um to copy everything
everything is copied with but uh
everyone who is going to sync uh
and we have the local mirrors i'm
waiting for all them to finish and then
i'm going to
um do a i have an origin script that
will copy the entire mirror yeah locally
for my i'm i'm only fetching uh
the uh 32 and 64-bit
version and this and the source package
repo
and i'm excluding every debug packages
because i
i don't need them okay and still that is
about um almost 200
gigs of data that needs to come down the
pipe
that's huge yeah but
i like to have everything locally in
case um
something because um 11 year um
nine years ago mandir went bust
and can you spell that for me what's the
destroy name spell that out for me
and um
or write it down if you want to do that
put it up on a sign
[Laughter]
and mike alpha november romeo
india victor alpha okay
okay i thought i thought you were
you were saying mangero for a minute
m-a-n-j-e-r-o
and that's a distro that runs on uh
one of the one of the destroyers that
runs on the pine phone or manjaro
i think it might be so yeah and that's
not this right
no it's um
before they call themselves
uh mandrake i remember mandrake and
mandriva
yeah absolutely okay and jack had to
change the name because
they lost a legal case in france yeah oh
boy
yeah of the company who owned the uh
on the right studio the the cartoon
character
mandrake oh the dog of course
yes okay
so um i hate that so they and the
and at the same time around the same
time they lost the
court case they uh they uh bought
the uh another distro and uh
connected and uh uh
a south american uh this show
and uh and emerging the two they thought
and they had to change the name they
combined the two names so
nice nice sometimes i forget about how
many distros and how many uh how many
different
you know distros there are on wikipedia
there is uh there is a uh
difficult charge of uh i know all the
possible
all the uh all the
existing and defunct uh digital side
starting from uh slackware and the two
before that
it's a big journal if you go you have
official if you google the official
distros of linux
and you count in debian and everything
else it's hundreds
yeah maybe thousands yeah sometimes i
although i tend to enjoy
i like ubuntu but um honestly
i don't use any of the ubuntu uh
provided
um or default window managers
i prefer to use xfce because with xfce
i have control of the root window at the
very
you know at the very base of the uh of
the pile of the
of the stack and i can display um
x earth on on on the root window and x
earth just rotates around during the day
i'm a child what can i tell you what
does that give you for a desktop
uh well i think i put a screenshot up
there on discord
a few weeks ago but um
you're taking a background image type of
uh yes
yeah yeah yeah every five minutes it
updates and so it just
moves around just a little bit every
five minutes or so
um and so right now of course the us
is is in the middle of you know it's
almost midday here
in central time zone so um so the us
is coming around into you know in full
view
but if i'm up at two o'clock in the
morning then australia is in full view
or if i'm uh or if i'm up at 10 pm or
something
um you know cape town is in full you
know however that works
but uh i think it's usually europe
that's in full view when i first
get up very early in the morning and
then australia is in full yeah
i knew you'd like that and then
australia's in full view it's just nice
to to
see that come it's just fun to watch
because i'm a child
that's that's just the way it is but
speaking also
distributions um yes um yeah
it all started with unix back in 1969
sure do you know or remember
who actually was the first company who
sold unix
not who distributed it but who who
commercially sold units first
i think it was a t and t bill right no
it was microsoft no way
yes there were
there were a few uh distributions before
microsoft sold it but microsoft
was the first to attract let's just sell
the system
oh before that they sell it as a server
version or
or as a desktop um
i don't talk about coming full circle
because
because of the well-known rivalry
between linux and
and and microsoft and then microsoft
coming back into the fold again and
starting to
support linux yeah the the first day
version
do you mean linux or did you mean
[Applause]
x exercise i remember xenix i remember
xenix
that was a microsoft distro yeah they
sold that from
1980 to 1989.
and then three years later um
was born yes right right right and he
wanted to have a unix um system at home
but uh a single user license for uh
unix in finland in 1991
was uh twenty thousand uh finnish marks
i remember
yes i remember the motivation that like
uh that linus had
to um uh uh to to write linux
for sure um so if the unix companies
had a reasonable process back then there
and
all of this would not have happened yeah
but would it still be i wonder if the
open source
industry or drive would be as powerful
now as a
you know if because none of the unix
distros would be open source would they
they are all closed source
they are all posters yes yeah so
the free software movement they started
rewriting from scratch
all the utilities that that you needed
for have a full system and in 1991 all
the single uh component missing
was the kernel and they had started
building a kernel but it was uh hard to
debug because it was uh
a modular uh uh monolithic
yes so they had their installment
explain this in
one of the uh linux documentaries who
who are uh 20 years ago this year and he
explained it that um
the hard part was that they could
communicate the more modules
communicated
sending messages to each other but the
problem is
does this message come before or after
this one sent this message
so that is always that is always a
problem with messaging systems
yeah um i worked with the technology
several years ago called corba
which is a a similar thing we the
company i worked for sold a product that
implemented that standard
and we had a message bus a product as
part of that
and bundled as part of that package and
that was always
that was always an issue you had to make
sure you had to specify when you built a
cue
that messages traveled on you had to say
whether it was important that the
messages were delivered in exactly the
same order
as they were placed on the queue because
if they
you know if it didn't matter and one
message got lost or something then you
could just keep on going
but you had to then make sure you
allowed for a message
that might be missing um but if it
mattered
that the messages appeared in queue and
one one got dropped
potentially that would back messages up
until somehow
you you freed up that message so yeah it
got interesting
there's all kinds of interesting stuff
yeah and the interesting part uh
i watched um two or three years ago
uh two years ago maybe um
not in this region but at the other
there were two people
who are important in creating um
uh unix and the other one is still alive
and he had a talk
um about uh we have
we have to let the other folks have a
talk this would be
where he talked about uh how unique
started
and why it started and so on they had a
printer that they wanted to uh
get working right and on the printer
they wanted it was a
big and powerful um hardware so they
wanted to play games on the printer
that's how unique started that was the
justif i remember the justification was
a printer driver
um for sure i do remember that yeah and
then
he had worked on it for three weeks and
the only he
only needed three parts there left there
were three programs that he needed
and at that point when he told the other
one what he was missing
it don't mean that he was creating a new
operating system and that was not
intentional
nice all right doug your turn sir
um i told you a couple of weeks ago i
was having trouble with chrome
uh on what i'm my raspberry pi 3. i'm
trying to use it as an entertainment
center
and i couldn't get wide vine to download
to it so
i investigated ubuntu which i have on a
desktop
and that's updated so i tried to get a
version of ubuntu that i can put on my
raspberry pi 3.
i found one but when i try to boot it it
says it doesn't have ssh keys
so it won't boot all the way
now i've got to try to find a way to
solve that i found a link online
which will allow me to download ubuntu
20.04
so i'm going to try and see if i can
make that work
what does it need the ssh keys for
um i'm not sure uh
i'm not ssh not going to ssh
into this version of ubuntu
it must think it needs ssh in order to
talk to servers for package management
or something
yeah well the version i have is a server
so that might have something to do with
it well it shouldn't
um it destroys the destroys the district
pretty much
i really don't know much about ssh yeah
the things that define whether it's a
server version or whether it's a desktop
version is what packages get included
would you agree sober
he's not listening he's he's off playing
he's had enough fun for one day
i i think what defines the difference
between a desktop
version and a server version of a of a
of a system is what packages get
included i don't think that this
yeah and the big difference is that on
the server and it's
by default you don't have a graphical
login
right right but you can install a
graphical login interface on the server
and so if doug is having trouble with
ssh
keys i suspect that it has to do with
the uh pc that or the raspberry pi that
you've installed it on
somehow needing keys to talk to the to
the server that manages the packages
that ubuntu needs to download that's my
that's that's my gut reaction there but
they sh
those ssh keys should have been included
on the distro that you downloaded so if
they're not there
i would be wondering if that distro that
you downloaded was complete
or not corrupted yeah well i would yeah
if it is the ssh key is there another
one
yeah exactly peter exactly peter yeah
yeah
download it again and try it again yeah
yeah well i'm going to try the 20.04 and
see if that works
yeah but uh what i think is going on is
uh
the the ssh keys they are not shipped in
any distribution
uh that is the biggest security all is
shipping the ssshks because
they will be the same all over if they
are automatically
generated the first time you install the
demon package well then how are they how
do they
connect those keys back to the server in
order to get a good connection to get
packages
yeah the packages are not signed by ssh
they are signed by um
gpg pgp keys
so what are the ssh keys used for uh for
following
for logging in if they're logging in to
the
he doesn't care server that he doesn't
plan he doesn't care about doing that
but it won't boot without the ssh keys
it might be having trouble generating
the ssh keys then
for before the first boot that might be
what it is yeah
and i believe i've had that problem with
um with raspberry pi
as well i think i think
when you try to do it it can't get a
random it can't get a source of random
data
yeah i remember um
peter reynoldson um he is the one who
created the the installer that
debian and ubuntu uses and one of the
problems he had
10 years ago or 11 years ago i don't i'm
not sure
it was that um we have to we have to let
people have a guess
they had the same problem but they the
installer yeah it started
it started to install and then for some
at
some point um it just stopped and waited
for something
and then and he and he found that oh he
would have to type on his keyboard
didn't he
provide the random data okay if he found
out that
no matter what he did
anything you did fix it fixed the
problem so it just needed some random
data so
i remember i remember you told us that
story a few weeks ago and coffee break
that's right
that might be your trick doug maybe it's
just waiting on random data and it can't
find it maybe you just have to move the
mouse
and and and just keep tapping on the
keyboard until it
until it's happy that it's got all the
source of data that it needs
one thing that he did was that he uh he
run the defined command in
one of the terminals in this
installation uh find
slash enter and hit it search it and
then it searched the entire
retrieve for anything and that was
enough for uh yeah because that would
cause it to list every classic file on
the file system
yeah i wonder although the card has gone
you know it might have been a bit
good very up a little bit yeah that's
possible but i'm not ready to suspect
the card yet
i think i think cyber's hit on this i
think that source of random data is
certainly
uh the first thing to try so i can try
yeah please do doug i think that will i
think that'll solve it just see if you
can open another
terminal and uh and then do that fine
command and see if that will do it for
you we'll connect
a
how do i open a terminal on a system
that isn't fully booted
carefully
you you actually have a keyboard on that
um on that terminal right
you have a keyboard when you try to boot
it though otherwise you can't see where
it's failing
well i have it on my tv
so that's the monitor and i'm i don't
have a keyboard
or a mouse hooked up because i would
the uh keyboard that i would be using
would be this and it hasn't connected
yet right
is that correct oh dear okay i don't
know how to fix that
unless you unless you literally plug up
a keyboard to one of the usb ports on
the raspberry pi
i can do that that's what you're going
to have to do
would that put a cursor on the screen
because there's none there now no it's a
text no it'll be a text
it'll be a text in order to have a
cursor on the screen i think you have to
connect the mouse then you would get a
cursor but uh
but even even on a text this will be a
text screen though right i mean there
won't be anything
to no no graphics
can can he open up another um another
terminal with ctrl alt
f2 okay yeah
but i don't know if that will let him
log in though that's all okay so we're
34 minutes here
yeah i know but um we've also
uh we've also we didn't start until like
uh 11
1105 so okay okay we've got we've got a
few minutes for peter to talk real quick
so it's got to be quick peter sorry man
i apologize
that's all right don't worry um i'm
going for the virus on wednesday by the
way for these
injections is that the first one or the
second one
third one okay apparently the second
one's a real pain from what i've heard
yeah well a friend of mine got a bad
reaction to it
yeah so a real bad actual great a bad
reaction so i could go to them as well
the other day
okay uh my demo it will swell up
which was quite a laughing oh no i felt
jesus
a real pain
i told him to tell the blanket yeah
jeez all right let's find another
subject i'm about to shut us down here
um the the clock the uh
chinese clock i put the arrow outside
and uh it worked a lot better i got
the one with the gps that wouldn't get a
good gps lock it's working better now oh
good
excellent well done but i also
discovered that uh
i keep seeing their five volts on the on
on the internalizing
what have five volts on there are they
tuned in the antenna
which are very good no they have to
power the antenna don't they is it not
one of those active antennas
it doesn't activate it and down yeah
it's got a uh uh it's called prince
of some sort uh uh but uh
after last year uh uh if i could
download the uh
the third of a bit of english bit on
they talk about uh uh our rs232 commands
to uh access the time which was asked
and somewhere in in all the
funny goodly good english it tells you
the command lines were to start and
okay
i i'd have a hard time believing that
they have to give you they have to put
chinese characters on the command line
to make you
uh to make a second get the time i think
it still has to be
uh you know characters on the keyboard
that you can type you know so there they
are but uh but but
now the the actual website oh the top is
the website isn't johnny
okay go further down there's an english
bit
but it's not in good english hitting you
from english yeah yeah yeah i hope yeah
i understand i understand that's
the way it works we're gonna have to
shut it down i'm so i'm sorry about that
we had a fun time as always
have a good afternoon everybody i've
enjoyed it as always
and see you see you next week take care
everybody good night
there we go
you