This is a Dynamike Network podcast.
Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority
between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny
DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are reviewing the Disney
Plus Marvel series, Secret Invasion. Not a bad series. I see a lot of hate for it online.
I feel like I liked it more than most people. I feel like I liked it less than you, which
is strange because I'm the Marvel guy, you're the DC guy. I don't know where the disconnect
is, but we'll talk about it later on this episode. Right. Before then, we're going to break down
the comic book movie news from the past week, which there isn't much news with ongoing writers
and actor strikes. We did learn that Sony has delayed Craven and Spider-Man Beyond the Spider-Verse,
and they have given Venom 3 a release date. So we're going to talk about that. As always,
we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if
you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. As our listeners may know, our duel simulator
has become so advanced that it's gained sentience and has named itself the Artificial Lifeform
for Running Extensive Duels, just a rather very intelligent simulator 9000 or Alfred Jarvis
9000. Here's a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why hello there. Do you love
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reaching out to the them on social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic duel. Pip
pip cheerio. Thanks AJ 9k and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Guys, be sure to
tune into the Max Destruction podcast on August 2nd to see who would win between Jack Black's
Nacho Libre versus Jean-Claude Van Damme's Frank Dukes from Bloodsport. We totally got that
wrong in our last episode. We said that was going to come out last week, but last week's
episode was Spartacus versus Zorro, which was awesome. Also debuting this week is the new
Dynamike Network show, Senjoworld, hosted by executive producer of this show, Zachary Hepburn.
Senjow is the Japanese word for battlefield, and in the show, Zach is going to tell you
who would win in a fight between your favorite anime characters. So if you're a fan of anime,
be ready to check out Senjoworld, launching August 3rd. Click on the link in our show notes
or visit dynamicpodcasts.com. to see all the shows in our network. But with that out of
the way, quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our
version, the dynamic dual no prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram and in our email
newsletter for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week.
Last week we asked what DC Comics storyline that hasn't been adapted to an animated film
would you like to see adapted and why? This of course was coming off the news that Watchmen
and Crisis on Infinite Earths were announced as animated movies for 2024 next year at Comic
Con. We got so many answers. We got too many fucking answers. We got way too many answers.
All you DC guys came out in droves to give your opinion. It was too many. It was impossible
to pick. They were all great answers, but I guess ultimately we just had to pick the ones
I think we prioritize if we were in charge, I guess. But any of the answers we got could
work as an animated film. Let's break down this week's honorable mentions before revealing
the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to CJ Kraft, who said, Hey guys, CJ Kraft
here. Been loving the latest dual matchups, some of the best episodes yet. Actually after
listening to the latest episode, I think I'd want to see an animated film of the Monkey
Prince. His powers would lend really well to animation, and if they did something like Batman
Ninja, the art itself could be spectacular. Have a good one guys, and keep up the great
work. Hey, thanks, CJ. I loved Batman Ninja. We reviewed it on this podcast. I thought the
animation was really cool. And after reading a lot about the monkey prince, you know, for
our last episode, I'm absolutely convinced that this character would make for a great animated
feature. I think it makes more sense, like stylistically, because the monkey prince looks cool as a character
and I think would adapt very well to a medium with more visual movement. But I would say
I wasn't too impressed with his origin story. I think they would have to kind of tweak it
to make it more compelling for an animated film. I think he has a great origin story. What are
you talking about? I mean, it was OK. I just think it tied too much into his parents who
are like super villain henchmen. I think you could kind of like tone down that a little
bit and then go more into his relationship with the mythical Monkey King. I can see that. Yeah,
that'd be cool. I do want to see the ultra human eye as the villain, though, because I think
Monkey versus girl is just. The way to go. Just yeah. Totally. Great answer CJ. Our next honorable
mention goes to... Miggy Mattingian who said... Hey what's up guys it's Miggy and I would love
to see a Superman Smash the Clan animated movie. I think it would be dope to see a Superman
period piece kind of like Gotham by Gaslight. And some like DC animated movies mimic the
art style of the source material like All-Star Superman or Superman Batman Apocalypse. And
I think it would be dope to do that here. And now it's the perfect time with the popularity
of the My Adventures with Superman animated series. Yeah, so I haven't read the graphic
novel, but I do know that it's inspired by the Superman radio show that actually helped combat
the Klan's activities. That's a really cool aspect of the character of Superman, and I
would love for them to explore that in an animated film. That would be really cool. The art style
on that comic book series looks really interesting too. As Miggy said, if they choose to adapt
that art style to the animated film as well, I think it could add additional appeal. I also
like the idea of a time period piece for Superman. Miggy's right, we've had several period pieces
for Batman, but not for Superman, and I think the character works very well in earlier time
periods as well. Great answer, Miggy. Our final honorable mention goes to Michael Harald, who
said, Hey guys. So I think the obvious answer is going to be Black is Knight. That would
be just... in every way and they couldn't just do one movie for that either. They had to break
it into multiple different ones. Like three maybe a trilogy that'd be pretty freaking cool.
Yeah, Matt Lamb also gave this answer. I think Blackest Night is one of the coolest DC storylines
of all time. Just having all of its dead characters come back as these evil zombies for the characters
to fight not only brought this like horror angle to DC Comics but also like this tragic kind
of personal stakes for the characters and that they had to fight these people who they loved.
Yeah, also, I think Green Lantern has a shocking lack of animated projects under his belt, considering
how cinematic his power set is. I think it would be really great to get another Green Lantern
animated film out there beyond First Flight and Emerald Nights. And Blackest Night is largely
regarded as one of Green Lantern's better stories. Yeah, I mean, I would love it if they would
lead up to it with the Sinestro Corps War and then do Blackest Night. Obviously, the film
would be centered around the Green Lanterns, but I would also love to see them incorporate
the entire pantheon of DC Superman, Batman, all of the characters. Matt Lamb suggested
also incorporating Brightest Day into like a two-part film series, but I could see Sinestro
Corps War, then Blackest Night and Brightest Day as like a trilogy. That'd be cool. We want
to give a quick shout out to everyone who took the time to visit our website and record an
answer, including Brandon Estergard, Colby Henches, Dustin Belcombe, John Storosky, Scott Camacho,
and The Unworthy Collector, who you could find on Instagram. But the winner of this week's
No Prize goes to three different people who gave the same answer. Ed Jones, Christopher
Menotti, and Noah Terry. Let's hear from Ed Jones. What's up guys, it's Air Jones. I think
one of the storylines that should be adapted to Heaven Minion is Kingdom Come. It's probably
one of my favorite storylines in the DC universe. It has the best of what DC has to offer. Present
heroes, past heroes, and future possible heroes. Great fight scenes, a great story, and it is
the comic book that got me to love comic books. So if it has to be one, it should definitely
be that. All right, thanks guys. Peace. Yeah, Kingdom Come is my absolute favorite DC storyline
ever, which is surprising because it was also, I think, the very first graphic novel from
DC that I had ever read. Similar to Ed Jones. It's a fantastic story. I get more out of it
every time I read it. I would love it if one day they adapted it until live action, but
in the meantime, I would happily accept an animated version of the movie. I'm actually having trouble.
grasping how they have not yet adapted Kingdom Come into an animated film considering all
the different stories that DC has done. It's the perfect Elseworlds story, and you know
James Gunn mentioned that they would be making Elseworlds movies in his new DCU So I'm really
hoping that this is one of them. He did post a picture of the Kingdom Come like special
edition cover to his Twitter So I imagine he's a fan and that gets me excited. It would be
cool to see an animated Kingdom Come film done in the art style of Alex Ross's paintings.
Yeah, yeah, that'd be really cool. Holy cow, that'd be amazing. A painterly style would
be perfection because the story itself is a masterpiece. So congrats to Ed Jones, Christopher
Manotti, and Noah Terry, you all win this week's No Prize. If you, the listener, want a shot
at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on this episode when we'll be asking
another Question of the Week. And now that that's done, on to the news.
Alright this past week we learned from Sony Pictures that the Craven the Hunter movie has
moved from October 6th of this year to August 30th, 2024, almost a year back, largely due
to the ongoing actors and writers strikes. As we all know, the current actor strikes prevent
actors from promoting current or upcoming projects, and so the speculation is that Sony moved the
Craven the Hunter movie in order to make sure that Aaron Taylor Johnson was available. to
do a worldwide press tour on the movie. My guess is that they actually have little faith in
the movie existing on its own without being promoted by its lead star. Right, yeah, and
maybe if they feel like they need to tweak the film after doing certain test screenings, this
will give them opportunity to do so. Well, judging off of the first teaser trailer that came out
for Cave in the Hunter, I would hope to God they do a lot of tweaking because it does not
look that great. Besides looking like the greatest film ever right next to Morpheus. But we also
received news that Spider-Man Beyond the Spider-Verse has lost. It's an upcoming release date, which
was supposed to be March 29th of next year. And there was no way it was ever going to hit
that date anyway. So a delay was inevitable. Yeah, the animators were saying that they haven't
even begun work on the film. And, you know, the across the Spider-Verse movie had to be
delayed due to all the animation work they had to do. I was really surprised to hear that
the movie has been delayed indefinitely, though. I'm sure they'll get a release date if they
improve their relationship with animation studios, who are apparently contentious with the studio
right now, considering their strict deadlines that they gave them. But also they can't get
any voice performances done until the Actors Union gets back to work. Right. Have you seen
Across the Spider-Verse yet? No, but I should soon. I think the movie comes out on digital
in a few weeks here. I mean, so you probably know that the film ends on a cliffhanger, like,
with no resolution? I don't want to know shit! Shut the fuck up! I'm just saying like... I
shut your mouth. If they don't make Beyond the Spider-Verse, that's gonna really suck. I don't
know. All right. I don't want to know anything. Nobody talk to me. I will see the movie in
a few weeks and I'm actually looking forward to listening to your review that you did on
it. UN Spees. For those who don't know my daughter was born right around the release of Across
the Spider-Verse. So I was not able to go see it in theaters. But also in Sony Spidey news,
we got a release date for Venom 3, which is going to come out on July 12th, 2024. And I
know that they've started filming already, so I guess they had to stop production. Yeah,
they had some set photos from the sets for Venom 3. We know that the last film Venom Let There
Be Carnage ended with Venom in Mexico kind of taking a vacation. And it looks like he will
continue his adventures down there for at least part of this film. But yeah, all the news this
past week was in regards to Sony's Spider-Man universe, which brings us to our question of
the week.
Who's your favorite Spider-Man or woman across the comics multiverse and why? Yeah, so we're
not looking for your favorite actor who's played the role. We're looking for your favorite spider-powered
character. Right, right. Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone
button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a
voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in
case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a
Dynamic Duel No Prize. that we'll post to Instagram and our email newsletter. Be sure to answer
before August 5th.
That does it for all the news for this episode, so let's go ahead and move on to the main event
where we review Disney Plus' latest Marvel Studios series, Secret Invasion.
Alright, Secret Invasion is the latest Marvel Studio series on Disney+, showrun by Kyle Bradstreet,
directed by Ali Saleem, and starring Samuel L. Jackson. The show is about the Skrull alien
invasion of Earth. Skrulls being shapeshifting beings that can take the form of anyone. We
first saw them in the MCU in the Captain Marvel film, which was kind of a prerequisite for
this series. Secret Invasion has quite a few surprises throughout, so right up top, here's
your We'll be revealing all the show surprises. So if you haven't watched Secret Invasion yet,
be sure to turn off the podcast, go watch it, then come back and listen to our review. Because
I think ultimately it's worth seeing, especially if you're a Marvel fan. I definitely think
it's the most interesting thing that Marvel has put out in a while, at least on Disney
Plus. And at least with something that has connective tissue to the larger MCU. Yeah, it was pretty
interesting and I remember being super excited for Secret Invasion before it came out because
I thought the comic book series was pretty fun. You know, trying to guess which of Earth's
heroes were going to turn out to be a Skrull, how long they had been taken over and stuff
like that. I really enjoy paranoid thrillers that deal with not knowing who to trust. Like
those types of thrillers take a special sort of like writing prowess, I think, to steer
audiences in different directions. constantly making people second-guess things and question
their previous assumptions. Especially since, usually, audiences are primed not to trust
anything when it comes to this sort of genre. So, like, when it's done well, it's like a
work of art. Films like John Carpenter's The Thing come to mind, and I thought the marketing
did a great job of getting me to expect something like that. Which is kind of a shame because
the show ended up going in a different direction. Like, there were surprises to be had for sure.
And in fact, there were moments almost every episode where I was like, oh damn! But like,
surprises I don't think are the same thing as twists. Surprises I define as unexpected events
in the course of a story. Twists are unexpected events that alter your previously held assumptions.
The latter of which I think are sorely lacking in the story, whose source material is rife
with twists. It's a shame because Marvel television has done this sort of story before. And it
was fucking incredible. On the Agents of SHIELD television show, and those who watched it will
know, in the middle of season four, there was an arc about a rogue AI who had replaced several
members of the team with life model decoys, which are androids meant to serve as copies
of people. Like Nick Fury uses them a lot in the comics. But anyway, in Agents of SHIELD,
there was an episode called Self Control where two scientist characters, Fitz and Simmons,
who love each other, they learn that some members of the team are secretly LMDs, but they don't
know what to do. and it really toyed with your emotions, making you go back and forth on these
characters. It was flawless. And that whole episode was great, probably actually the best
single episode of the entire Agents of the Shield series. And I feel like that should have been
the template for what this Secret Invasion show should have been like. Okay, yeah, I get how,
you know, you would want this to be like that. I think on its own, just judging it though,
it was good. It was solid. I was surprised at how much I didn't hate it, honestly. because
of all the vitriol I see online regarding the show. And a lot of it honestly has to do with
comparisons to the comic and how little of the MCU universe it was able to utilize. Right.
There was no cameos really in this outside of Rhodey. Yeah, I would totally agree with that
criticism and I'll touch on that. My main problem with Secret Invasion is that we were constantly
given the villains perspective, like. We knew Gravik's plans, we knew almost every facet
of what he was trying to do and how he was trying to do it. There was no mystery there, and because
there was no mystery, there was no paranoia and very few twists. That's a fantastic point
that I didn't even think about actually. And yeah, that's totally true. It's like what if
in the X-Files, like you knew what the Cigarette Man was all about and like what his plans were.
It would just completely strip the show of all of its mystery. For sure, for sure. I think
the show should have focused more on Fury as he's uncovering everything and should have
totally kept the whole Skrull thing as a mystery. And maybe it was just false expectations on
my part, but I think the marketing really steered me toward expecting a paranoid thriller. So
the show never really ended up being what I thought it should have been. Despite that,
I will commend Secret Invasion for its tone and performances. which both really elevated
the feel of everything, I think similar to Captain America the Winter Soldier, which was comparatively
much more mature than other Marvel Studios fare. Like looking at this series next to something
like Amon and the Wasp quantumania, it's like watching the evening news compared to Saturday
morning cartoon. And while both are good, I find myself more intrigued by the more mature
stuff personally. This was definitely more mature than anything Marvel has done in a while. Definitely
more violent, surprisingly so for a Disney plus show. Absolutely. I'm thinking to like when
that guy got his finger cut off. Yeah. During the torture scene, that was intense. I mean,
he ended up being an alien, so it was like purple blood. But still, for sure. Or when like you
see Gravit getting shot in the face, even though he heals with the extremist powers, it was
still pretty crazy. There were definitely a lot of things to like within this series. But
for every great performance or mature scene or violent action that there was, I also feel
like there was a larger plot hole within the series. There were so many questions that are
posed by the very conceit of this show as it's presented here. So what I'd like to do is similar
to what we did with Loki Season 1 where I had a lot of questions. I'm going to run through
all the plot holes I thought of while watching the series and you and I will see if we can
fill in some of these gaps ourselves. Sure. Alright. Plot hole question number one. I understand
why Fury wouldn't want to get the Avengers involved because it could possibly reveal the existence
of the Harvest sample, and exposing the Skrulls to the world at large puts both the Skrulls
and humanity at risk. But why wouldn't Fury just reveal the Skrull invasion to the World
Security Council? Because even if a few of their members were Skrulls, that would at least be
a covert way to draw suspicion among them to any sort of global manipulation Gravik's army
would try to achieve. Like he could have said something along the lines of, scrolls are a
mongus, hold off any World War III shit at least for the time being until this is sorted out.
That's not a plot hole. He figured he could avert the global catastrophe on his own without
needing help from anyone because he's motherfucking Nick Fury. Well, that's just foolish. I think
the Secret Invasion series needed like more superheroes in it. Having more powerful beings
as scroll wild cards makes it more risky to do anything and it would handcuff Fury's actions
more. And I mean, like you had the Super Scroll element here, sure. But because Fury held all
the cards there with the harvest sample, he definitely had more options with what he could
do here than if he was dealing with like Scroll Iron Man or Scroll Scarlet Witch. You know,
I think he should have done some sort of revelation to a select number of people that could actually
prevent World War Three from happening if it came down to that. Well, I mean, I don't think
you necessarily needed super powered characters. I think the scrolls could have easily, you
know, hijacked one of Tony Stark's old Iron Man suits. There are definitely heroes without
superpowers tied to their DNA that could have been involved here, like Falcon, Winter Soldier,
the whole cast of characters from the Thunderbolts pretty much. Yeah, I mean, that's actually
true. It's easier for Skrulls to replicate those sort of abilities than it is to replicate the
ones that they needed the Harvest DNA for. Speaking of those type of heroes, that brings me to
my next plothole question. Why wouldn't Skrull roadie? just assumed the role of president.
He and the other Skrulls spent so long trying to manipulate the world into chaos when they
could have just been more selective in whose identities they assumed and then just took
over. Like if I were Skrull Rodie, I would have put President Ritzen into a permanent nap time
with a hospital pillow and then just assumed his form and ordered the nuclear attack. Like
it doesn't get more simple than that. The Skrulls themselves seemed severely handicapped in their
ability to shape shift and assume just anyone at any time. Right, they needed to get people
whose memories they were able to capture. And I think that's largely the main reason why
they didn't assume President Ritzen's form because they didn't have access to his knowledge and
maybe they felt like they needed it. Okay, so I put him in a temporary coma, put him in a
closet, order the strike, then take him out of the closet. I mean, it's simple stuff here.
That's fair. That brings me to pahol question number three. Aliens already live on Earth
in the MCU. They have a whole ass settlement called New Asgard, which seems to be widely
accepted by Earthlings. So why do Fury and Talos believe that humans will not accept the Skrulls?
Because Thor, Love and Thunder is stupid. I actually like what Secret Invasion does here.
I'd rather erase the other bad Thor stuff and leave Secret Invasion the way it is. Okay,
well then that being said, you know, there's only a million alleged Skrulls on Earth. That's
only like a city's worth. And there's so much unoccupied land throughout the globe. The scroll
should have been simple to accommodate, right? Like why can't the UN establish a scroll city
on Antarctica? Like, if you even said the scrolls like the cold, right? And that's a whole ass
continent to themselves to live on in their own skin. They could even keep the city secret
if they wanted. Cause like, ain't nobody going down there. Like fucking call them Santa's
green elves or some shit. I don't care. I feel like the show made this problem much more complicated
than it needed to be. I think just by him saying that they like the cold makes this a plot hole.
Because you're right, they could have gone to Antarctica. He should have said they hate the
cold. There you go. Exactly. And maybe that's why they hated being in Russia. Maybe. But
that just made me think of something like, why didn't the Skrulls just make their own home
in Russia? I guess they kind of did, you could argue with their settlement. But if they're
so concerned about having a home of their own skin, that's literally it. They knew humans
weren't around. Yeah, all they needed to do was establish their perimeter. It would have
been undetectable to most humans, and it largely was throughout the course of the show. Like
Russia, I don't think knew what was going on there. So weird. But that brings me to plot
hole question number four. The Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor films have shown that it's
a large universe out there with plenty of inhabitable planets. How is it possible that Captain Marvel
and Nick Fury cannot find even one to establish as new Skrullos? I don't fucking know. Like
they didn't show that. But also, like, why was it up to just those two? Like the Avengers
have their own ships, their Quinjets that can go off world as we saw happen to Hulk in Thor
Ragnarok. You know, at the very least, Saber could make the scrolls some ships and the scrolls
even had their own starship at the end of Captain Marvel. So why couldn't the scrolls use that
to find their own planet? They tried. All of Asgard was living on one spaceship at the end
of Ragnarok. I'm sure the scrolls can do that, too. Better yet, fucking Gaia has literally
all the powers now. Why can't she fly her ass into space to find a new world? She probably
couldn't, she probably will. They didn't address that here though. Your mom didn't address that
here though. I wanna know why they couldn't find a new planet. It doesn't make sense. But
how many habitable planets are there that are like Earth? So many as we've seen in Guardians
of the Galaxy and Thor. Yeah, but they're all taken too. Those can't be the only ones though.
I understand that they couldn't find it, I just think that's preposterous. Honestly, I don't
like sounding like I'm nagging, but like it doesn't take a brilliant mind to think of these
things. And I wish the writers would have addressed at least some of these plot holes to keep audiences
from asking these nagging questions that rob some of the enjoyment from the story. I feel
personally, you know, every story is going to have plot holes for the most part. Anyone could
ask any question and just get offended that they don't have an answer. Half of these questions
didn't cross my mind as I was watching this. I enjoyed it, but I guess I would. say that
for a show of this type, that should be something of a mystery, you want as little of those plothole
questions as possible. Grievances aside, I do think that one of the best things about the
show is the performances and the caliber of the cast involved. So let's go ahead and talk
about the actors in our character breakdown. Starting with Nick Fury. Motherfucking what?
Nothing. I was gonna try and get that in before he said Nick Fury. Starting with motherfucking
Nick Fury played by Samuel L. Jackson and we know the L stands for motherfucking Samuel
L. Jackson I think really shined in parts in this show and I adore the actor without a doubt
He is a legend but I don't know if it's the actor or the character He came across as really
weary here Which was kind of hard to watch whether it's seeing Fury past his prime or maybe Sam
Jackson just aging I didn't mind that. I think it made sense and I think that he came up with
a lot of reasons for why that was the case. You know, he was blipped and that really shook
him as a character. I do appreciate the show delving deeper into his past, you know, with
his wife, who is a scroll and revealing that he rose to prominence within Shield only by
exploiting the scrolls. That was fascinating. Yeah, it helped cement his deceitful nature,
which. You know, you ultimately forgive because you always know Fury's intentions are always
about protecting the innocent. But that's the thing I love most about the character, even
from the comics. You know, Nick Fury has always been the most unethical, yet paradoxically
most moral man. You know, the man who always does whatever it takes for the greater good,
no matter how dishonest the action. Like personally, I would never trust Nick Fury with anything
except to get the job done. I loved the scenes with Sam Jackson. especially when he was just
like talking with other people. I could watch Sam Jackson talk for hours, literally. I literally
did, I guess. His delivery as an actor is second to none. Oh yeah, absolutely. Going toe to
toe with like Don Cheadle or the actress from The Queen, I forget her name. Olivia Colman.
Literally everyone on the show he had a conversation with. Top notch work. In the season, Nick Fury's
arc revolved around guilt. You know, he couldn't find the scrolls of home. He put the world
above his wife. He knows that the conflict and Gravik's motivations are all his fault. I think
the show did a good job of showing that his actions do weigh on him, despite the fact he
would never apologize for them. I really got the sense that, you know, his heart may be
cold, but it still beats. And by the end, you know, Gravik is stopped. And he goes back to
remedying his other guilt, this time choosing to involve his wife as he tries to get peace
through other means. So Fury here was really trying to work on alleviating his conscience
from his past actions. Right. But that brings us to the villain Gravik who is played by Kingsley
Benadir. This is my first real exposure to the actor. I think he did fine here portraying
the arrogance of Gravik. It was easy to understand his motivations as the character. However,
it was all kind of fairly generic. Maybe it was an issue of screen time, perhaps a lack
of charisma. But outside of an early flashback and Gravik's angry rant at Fury in the last
episode, I feel like we barely got to know Gravik. He was mostly just like a smiling face. who
probably could have been played by anybody. But that being said, I don't think he's the
worst Disney plus MCU villain. I think that honor still goes to She-Hulk or Flag Smasher
from Falcon and the Winter Soldier. He was a villain that definitely grew on me throughout
the series. I didn't really care for him in the earlier episodes, especially the way he
always kept his mouth open. I was like, close it, mouth breather. What? I didn't even notice
that. Yeah, just the actor's performance. I think he always had like a smirk on his face,
so his mouth was always open. But later on, I thought his plan was interesting, honestly.
It really transitioned from being about finding the Skrulls a new home to the more selfish
ambition of gaining power for himself. And I think the Skrulls recognized it and that's
why they tried to form that mutiny. Yeah, that was a crazy scene. Let's go ahead and move
on to Talos, played by Ben Mendelsohn. I adore Ben Mendelsohn. The more I see of him, the
more of a fan I am. I think he's a fantastic actor. I think he gave a really personable
performance here. even though you kind of come to realize how flawed and kind of lazy and
meek his perspective is. You know, over the years you see that he came to rely on Fury
too much and saw that living on Earth and hiding as being the best solution for his people,
even though I think he should have realized that eventually the Skrulls would want more
for themselves. Despite his flaws, I was shocked when he died and that hit me because I know
that I'll miss Ben Mendelsohn in the MCU. Yeah, he had a really interesting relationship with
Nick Fury, and they had some great back-and-forth scenes with each other. Ben Middleson's performance,
he's just a phenomenal actor, and I agree, I will also miss the character of Talos. I don't
know if I would describe him as lazy. I think he was optimistic. He's kind of like the Professor
X to Gravix Magneto. He just foresaw a world where one day, Skrulls and humans potentially
could live together. I think he kind of gave up hope that they would ever find a new world
because he went out searching with Carol Danvers and couldn't find anything, you know. That's
true, that's a fantastic analogy. You're totally right. I think you could also compare Talos
to like Moses. And you know, he was just trying to deliver his people to the promised land,
but they were so impatient and inconsiderate that they were never gonna get where they wanted
to go. And I think he was kind of partly just upset with his own people because of that.
You're just crushing it with the comparisons today. Yeah, I'm pretty popular at parties.
I can compare anything to anything. Let's go ahead and move on to Gaia, who is played by
Emilia Clarke. Emilia kind of gave somewhat of a detached performance here, but I think
had maybe to do with the character's misgivings because she neither really identified with
her father or Gravik. I'm really interested in seeing where Gaia goes from here, especially
as the most fucking overpowered being in the entire universe now. For real, like I thought
Carol Danvers was overpowered to the way she just like tanked Thanos' punch. What the fuck
would Gaia do? Like she could literally do anything she wants now. Pretty much like she has Captain
Marvel's powers, Thanos' thors. all the black order is just nuts. Like you think she'd really
be able to take some agency now with her desires for her people and get them a new place to
live. Like if she can't do it, literally no one else can. Literally. I mean, she could
rule the whole planet for all she wants right now. Like what's stopping her? Absolutely nothing
and nothing can. Well, probably the goodness of her heart. But otherwise, yeah, I mean,
it's hard to complain too much because I also do think that storyline was brilliant with
the DNA and the power absorption. since scrolls by their nature, you know, have shape shifting
DNA, it kind of makes sense that they would be able to absorb other people's powers. And
I thought that, you know, in lieu of the Fantastic Four existing in this universe, that being
able to take Korg's arm instead of the thing, or like Groot's stretchy powers instead of
Mr. Fantastic, or Carol Denver's like light aura instead of human torch was pretty smart.
It was really smart. I liked that. You know, the first... Original Super Skrull in the comics
was a villain for the Fantastic Four and his name was Colert and we did a dual episode with
him that you can check out where he fought against Metamorpho. But the Skrulls gave him the powers
of the Human Torch, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and The Thing. And in the show, the
powers that Gravik was initially able to obtain corresponded to the Human Torches with the
Extremis abilities, Mr. Fantastic's with Groot's powers, and The Things largely through Cull
Obsidian's powers. They were missing the invisibility aspect, but they kind of did get that later
through ghosts abilities, you know? And in the comics, there have been other Super Scrolls
that have had other combinations of Marvel hero powers, especially used within the Secret Invasion
storyline. Like there was one that had Black Panthers and Quicksilvers and Visions powers,
like that was one Super Scroll. There was another one that had a bunch of X-Men powers like Colossus,
Nightcrawler, Cyclops and Wolverine. So the fact that they kind of... took that concept
and applied it here with all the Avengers and stuff. I actually, I really liked that. And
how they were portrayed visually, like that kind of like patchwork sort of body style,
I just had a great time with. Yeah, that was cool. Let's go ahead and move on to Reva, who
is a Skrull disguised as James Rhodes played by Don Cheadle. I love Don Cheadle as Rhodey.
I thought he did a fantastic job of playing the villain. You could definitely tell the
difference between Skrull Rhodey and regular Although maybe you can't because what this
show seems to insinuate is that Rhodey was switched during the events of Captain America Civil
War when he was knocked out of the sky accidentally by vision and taken to the hospital. Right.
Because we see him being taken away without being able to use his legs, wearing a hospital
gown in episode six of the show, which is pretty crazy. And that means that anytime we've seen
him since then, it's been a scroll, including Falcon in the Winter Soldier. Infinity War
and Endgame. Pretty crazy. I'm really excited to see what happens to Rhodey's character in
the upcoming Armor Wars movie and how he kind of like redeems his whole situation. Let's
go ahead and move on to Sonya Falsworth who was played by Olivia Colman. She stole every
scene that she was in. She was a true standout in the show. I loved every single second when
she was on the screen. It was just a lot of fun. Is she a character from the comics? Like,
I wasn't quite sure why she was in the show. I thought she was gonna be a Skrull in all
honesty. So did I, actually. She's not from the comics, she's an original character. But
her last name is Fallsworth, which is the same last name as James Fallsworth, who's a British
hero named Union Jack in the comics. And actually, that character was one of the Howling Commandos
in the Captain America, the first adventure movie. He was the British one. Huh, I wonder
if they'll go down that route where like her son becomes Union Jack. Maybe I don't know.
My assumption is that Sonya Fallsworth is the daughter of James Fallsworth, the Howling Commando.
Okay. Because in the comics, if I remember correctly, he did have a daughter who was a superhero.
Her name was Spitfire. And obviously here Sonya Fallsworth is just a brilliant MI6 agent. But
I think her character is kind of in homage to that. She definitely was a Spitfire. Yeah,
for sure. Let's go to move on to the final character I want to talk about. Vara, who's played by
Charlene Woodard. I don't have much to say about her other than I think she gave a superb performance.
I did want to point out that she played Sam Jackson's mom in Unbreakable and that really
threw me off every time they had a scene together. I also noticed that and I was like, what? It
was a little awkward, I felt like. I still haven't seen Glass yet, which is like the third movie
in that franchise because it goes Unbreakable, then Split, then Glass. So I'm interested in
seeing how, you know, those actors. kind of play off each other as mother and son again
in that movie. I don't know. I haven't seen it either. That's the reason for me to not
want to see that.
Let's go ahead and move into our episode highlights. Episode 1 was called Resurrection. In Russia,
CIA operative Evert K. Ross meets with paranoid agent Prescott, who tells him that the shapeshifting
alien Skrulls have secretly begun infiltrating Earth posing as humans. Killing Prescott in
self-defense, Ross flees a pursuing Russian agent and falls off a building and dies, which
reveals him to be a Skrull. The pursuing Russian is revealed to be Talos. a former leader of
a group of Skrulls who first came to Earth decades ago as refugees from the Kree-Skrull War. Nick
Fury is summoned from the space station Sabre to address the Skrull threat, learning from
Talos and S.H.I.E.L.D. agent Maria Hill that a group of rebel Skrulls led by Gravik intend
to clandestinely start a nuclear war that will annihilate human life on Earth, leaving it
as a new home for the radiation-resistant Skrulls. Fury meets with his former ally, MI6 agent
Sonya Falsworth. who is also investigating the Skrull threat and tracked a stolen dirty bomb
to Moscow. While following the bomb, Talos reunites with his estranged daughter Gaia, who has joined
the Skrull rebellion but becomes a double agent after learning the rebels killed her mother.
She reveals to Talos Gravik's plan to bomb a square in Moscow and portray it as an American
attack. Fury, Talos, and Hill fail to stop Gravik's bomb and in the chaos, Gravik disguises himself
as Fury and shoots Maria Hill. I thought this was a really solid first episode. This was
a lot of what I was actually expecting from the show. It had a lot of great intrigue, spy
dialogue, and lots of shocks and twists. Yeah, I saw Maria Hill's death coming though. It
was foreshadowed heavily during the chess scene that she gave with Fury, where she was like,
you're off your game Fury, and when you are, people get hurt. I was like, okay, she's dead.
Exactly, exactly. But I agree, it was a solid opening episode for sure. Go ahead and move
on to episode 2, which was called Promises. In the late 90s, we see Fury recruiting the
Skrull refugees, including a young Gravik as his covert operatives in protecting Earth in
exchange for finding them a new home planet. In the present, en route to London, Talos reveals
to Fury that he summoned even more refugees in that time, and that around 1 million Skrulls
were currently living on Earth. Gravik meets with the Skrull Council, a group of Skrulls
who have taken influential identities across the globe. and they elect him as the new Skrull
General. Colonel James Rhodes advises US President Ritzen on the matter and is sent to London
to meet with Fury. Rhodey holds Fury responsible for the Moscow attack and Maria Hill's death,
discharging him from his role at Sabre and within the US government. Agent Falsworth interrogates
a captured Skrull who reveals that Gravik is experimenting with Skrull DNA to create Super
Skrulls. Fury returns home to his wife. a scroll named Vara disguised as Priscilla Davis, who
was living in London. Again, a lot of shocking surprises here. This episode was a little bit
slower than the first episode, but I think it was still really solid. I was really enjoying
the show at this point. Yeah, I didn't even mind the slow moments. I'm really glad that
the series as a whole was relatively short, only six episodes. I think the level of intrigue
was able to be maintained throughout the whole series, and it definitely kept my attention.
So. It didn't feel as long as it actually was. I got through the whole thing in, you know,
just two days and I was, you know, glued to the screen the whole time. That's a good compliment
to the show, actually. Yeah, I think so. I liked it again. You know, I definitely didn't have
all the qualms that you and other fans have had. What did you think about Rody in this
episode? I didn't suspect him as a scroll at this point. I just thought he was being a fucking
asshole. I should have suspected him as a scroll. I thought he was a scroll in the comics. So
I straight from the get-go assumed that he was going to be one. I honestly thought potentially
everyone in the show besides Fury could be a Skrull. I think I was definitely dumb for not
immediately suspecting him considering he was the only other big name player in the season
that they could have done that sort of shocking twist with. Yeah, I assumed they were going
to do that with everyone. They did it with Everett K. Ross, called that straight from the beginning.
The only one who wasn't a Skrull that I thought was going to be one was Agent Fallsworth. Let's
go ahead and move on to episode 3 which is called Betrayed. In it, Gravik shows the Skrull Council
his Super Skrull device and tells of his plan to be the first test subject and explains how
he has infiltrated the British Royal Navy to attack a United Nations aircraft. In the late
90s, we see Fury meet with Vara, a Skrull diplomat serving as official liaison between the refugees
and Fury, and the two fall in love. Back in the present, Talos meets with Gravik regarding
his daughter Gaia. who manages to sneak a message to her father, warning him of Gravik's upcoming
Royal Navy attack. Talos and Fury learn who's in charge of the Navy vessel from Agent Falsworth,
and they infiltrate his home, revealing him to be a Skrull. Talos assumes his identity
to call off the Navy strike using a password acquired by Gaia. Outed as a rebel Skrull traitor,
Gaia flees the Skrull compound, but is intercepted by Gravik, who shoots her dead. Meanwhile,
Vara is given orders to kill her husband Fury, revealing her as part of the Skrull Rebellion.
This was a fantastic episode. I think it was actually the best of the entire season. I think
it had the best moment where Fury and Talos single handedly infiltrates the Royal Navy
commander's home. I thought that was filled with a lot of tension. Although I did think
it was anticlimactic that the commander's password was his son's name. Yeah, that's pretty basic.
You never use your children's name as your password, people. Come on. That's some basic shit right
there. For real. I remember being super shocked that Gaia was killed at the end of this episode.
I had no idea that she was coming back, I thought she was done for, especially since she had
like transformed into her Skrull self. I was like, oh, that means she's super dead. I didn't
even think about the concept of her using the Super Skrull device. That is a pet peeve of
mine where they do that. They're like, oh, here's a flashback that you didn't know that kind
of solves everything. It's like, all right. Well, that was until the next episode. But
uh. At the end of this episode, we hear Rhodey speak with Nick Fury's wife. And I could totally
tell that it was Don Cheadle's voice. Because I think he has a very distinctive voice. I
was like, OK, so Rhodey is a Skrull. OK, right. Right. How did you watch the show? Was it week
to week or did you binge it? I binge the first two episodes and then I watched the rest week
to week. Yeah, I probably would have gotten frustrated with the show like this, watching
it week to week. I enjoyed binging it. It was very bingeable. Things like, you know, Gaia
being shot dead wasn't a problem for me for very long. It was like a 15 second problem.
Let's go ahead and move on to episode 4, which is called Be Loved. In it, it's revealed that
before fleeing the Rebel Scroll base, Gaia used Gravik's Super Scroll Machine to give herself
an extremis healing factor that saves her life. Vara meets with Rody, who turns out to be a
Skrull named Reva in disguise, and they discuss Fury's fate, as Fury listens to their conversation
through a bug he planted on his wife. Talos meets with Gaia, and the two are shown to have
irreconcilable differences over the fate of their people. Where Talos is content hiding
in secret, his daughter wants the Skrulls to have their own home living in their own skin.
Fury confronts Vara, but she confesses that she truly loves him and could never hurt him.
He then visits Skrull Rody and plants a liquid tracker on him. Talos and Fury follow him and
President Ritson's convoy, which Gravik and his men attack, presenting themselves as Russian
terrorists. Though Fury and Talos manage to save the President's life, Talos is killed
in the firefight. That whole firefight scene was pretty cool. It was the first time we got
to see the Super Scroll powers outside of Extremis. I didn't initially register his stretching
ability as group powers, even though I probably should have because they definitely looked
like roots extending outward, but I really liked it when they addressed that those were in fact
a Flora Colossus ability. Well I recognized it even before they explicitly said that. when
Gaia was on the computer looking at the different DNA samples that they had in like episode 2
or 3. So I was waiting for something like that to pop up. Oh yeah, I guess I didn't pay attention
close enough to the monitors. Episode 5 is called Harvest. In it, the Skrull Rebellion loses
faith in Gravik following his failure to kill the President or Nick Fury, which incites a
mutiny that Gravik stops. Fury takes the President to the hospital and confronts Skrull Rody.
who reveals that he leaked footage of the Moscow attack, implicating Fury in Maria Hill's death
and turning Nick Fury into a wanted man. Fury visits Gaia at a safe house where she tells
him that Gravik's Super Scroll process involves infusing Skrull DNA with those of Earth's other
heroes and villains, including Extremis soldiers, Groot, and Thanos' henchmen, Cull Obsidian,
and that he is looking specifically for the Harvest DNA samples, which contains genetic
material from everyone in the battle against Thanos. called the Battle of Earth in Avengers
Endgame. On orders from Gravik, Skrull-Rody tries to convince President Ritsin that the
attack was from a Skrull group harbored by Russia and advises him to attack the Rebel Skrull
compound on Russian soil. Gaia and Vara hold a funeral for Talos and fend off Rebel Skrulls
sent to assassinate them for their betrayal. Gravik calls Fury asking for him to bring him
the Harvest Sample in exchange for saving the Skrull compound. Fury partners with Agent Fallsworth
to help him avoid authorities as he travels with her to Finland to retrieve the sample,
preparing to confront Gravik. I thought this was a great episode. I did find it kind of
strange that even though Gaia was kind of on the run for being a Skrull traitor, neither
she nor Fury's wife ever changed their human forms. Like they could have easily gone into
hiding by becoming someone else, they just chose not to. The whole Skrull rationalization for
remaining in human form. obviously was to reduce the special effects and make a budget for the
show. Right. They explained it as like the more you're in this human form, the harder it is
for you to detect. But I also feel like the scrolls were in their human forms too much
and that they didn't transform in times where it would have been convenient for them to.
Yeah, I definitely agree. The action scene with Gaia and Vara, though, was pretty badass. Those
two ladies crushed it, I thought, in that shoot out. Not gonna lie, it makes me want to set
up like a hidden backpack, like weapon cache thing in my own home, just so I could be prepared
like them. I don't know who would attack my home, but weapons are cool. I could do it.
Okay. We'll just do a super soakers, it'll be awesome. Yeah, yeah, just do, we'll do the
airsoft version. Let's go ahead and move on to episode six, which is called Home. In It,
Fury confronts Gravik at the Rebel Scroll compound, offering to hand over the harvest sample if
Gravik leaves the planet to conquer some other world for the Skrulls. Gravik refuses and berates
Fury for deceiving the Skrull refugees, getting Fury to admit that he knew he and Captain Marvel
couldn't find a new world for them, but that it was easier to save humanity from the Skrulls
than to convince it to accept them. Agent Fallsworth tells Rhodey that he and the President's Guard
are under attack from Fury and the guards slowly fall one by one. With Fury dying from radiation
sickness at the Rebel Skrull compound, Gravik activates the Super Scroll machine and attacks
Fury, who reveals himself as Gaia in disguise who also receives the Harvest's powers. In
actuality Fury is at the hospital with Agent Fallsworth where he shoots and kills Skrull
Rody, proving to President Ritzen the Skrull deception against him. Gaia and Gravik fight,
with Gaia avenging her parents by blasting a hole through Gravik's chest, killing him. She
then sets the Skrull prisoners free, including Everett K. Ross and James Rhodes. In the aftermath,
President Ritson declares war on all offworld species, causing unrest among civilians as
armed vigilantes murder those they think are Skrulls. Agent Falsworth partners with Gaia
as they visit another Skrull compound with more captive humans. Fury leaves the planet with
Vara to attend a peace summit between the Kree and the Skrulls. I gotta say the last 10 minutes
of this season really dropped the ball. The episode was the shortest in the entire season.
I think they should have really took the time to end this show correctly and not just rush
it like they did. It felt largely unsatisfying. And I think is a large reason why a lot of
people have a better taste in their mouth when it comes to this show. I think if they would
have just extended that whole ending, what felt like a montage by like an additional 15 or
20 minutes, I think it would have made all the difference in the world. I was very confused
by what Gaia found in that basement. So it was another Skrull compound. Yeah, it was a bunch
of other people whose memories were stolen by the Skrulls who had their identities taken.
So they're gonna work to stop those Skrulls now? She's gonna do that as like their new
leader? Your guess is as good as mine as to what the implications were there. It largely
felt like they were setting up a lot of vague plot points for a secret invasion season 2,
but season 2 hasn't been confirmed, so it's unknown if we'll ever get a continuation to
these plot points. I'm really curious to see as to what the ramifications are going to be
in the larger MCU from this show. Like, the president declaring war on all offworlders,
does that mean that they're going to attack the Asgardian camp now? If they want their
heads shot up their asses, they're welcome to try. I just, I feel like that was kind of irresponsible
of the MCU. Yeah, it's almost like they kind of wrote themselves into a corner because if
it doesn't get addressed, phase four, I think in general, and now apparently phase five,
is that the MCU is setting up so many individual plot threads and so many new corners of the
larger Marvel Cinematic Universe that aren't being addressed in the same way that they were
in previous phases. Like, who knows what the hell happened with the Eternals situation,
you know? What's happening with the Incursions and with the multiverse? We have the Atlanteans
introduced. the underground society of monster hunters and the werewolf by night special.
So many different like threads now that are branched out almost exponentially. The Marvel
Cinematic Universe definitely feels less cohesive than it's ever been in its existence. Yeah,
I definitely feel like fans are starting to turn on it, especially seeing some of the ire
online for even a show like this. Yeah, it makes me think that superhero fatigue is definitely
setting in. Marvel can just kind of like string all this together into something that feels
really cohesive and makes sense, I think they'll win fans back. But they gotta work on funneling
all this new stuff and really convincing people to keep up with everything. I guess we'll see
how much this show ties into the larger MCU when we see the Marvels, because that's when
we're gonna see Nick Fury again. Right. So relatively soon. Yeah, hopefully if the movie doesn't
get delayed. That's right. We'll see. But that doesn't for this season. I remember walking
away from the show because of the lackluster 10 minutes that happened. feeling that I disliked
the show more than I actually did. Once I started writing out the plot breakdowns and the character
breakdowns and stuff, I really came to appreciate the season despite all of its plot holes. Considering
everything, how much I enjoyed it and how much I questioned what was in it, I'm going to give
the season 3.5 stars. In summary, the show's capable actors and mature tone make for mostly
enjoyable viewing but can't fully save a plot-hold riddled story that bumbles its resolution.
For Rotten Tomatoes though, I'm giving it a fresh rating. Because ultimately, I recommend
it and think it's worth watching, despite the fact it didn't entirely live up to what I thought
it could or should be. I think there's potential in the series, not only for a Season 2 of Secret
Invasion, but for the entire MCU. I didn't dislike it as much as other people, I actually really
liked it when you were first talking about a 3.5 star rating. I thought that was pretty
harsh. I'd give it honestly like a 4. Bringing up some of the plot points that you mentioned.
does kind of downgrade the show for me, but definitely not enough to get to like a three.
So I agree that a three point five rating is appropriate. I'd probably give it a four, but
ultimately this is, you know, your review. And if you want to give it a three point five,
sure. Fuck Marvel, right? I just have higher standards than you as a fan of Marvel. I think
that's apparent because I can't stand DC. So what you DC simpletons will enjoy anything.
Obviously, anything. Oh my gosh. If you like DC. It was confused with Marvel fans, bro.
But that does it for this review. Let us know what you guys thought about the show by writing
to us at dynamic dual podcast at Gmail dot com or by visiting us on Instagram or Twitter,
which is now X. I don't know what the fuck is going on. You can find links to all of our
accounts by checking out our show notes or visiting our website at dynamic dual dot com. And on
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two tier. and chat with us and fellow listeners, our fantastic four tier, which gets you bonus
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you can still support the show by signing up for our e-newsletter also at dynamicduel.com.
Or you could also rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or our website. In our next
episode, we will be doing a DC review of the animated film Justice League Warworld. I haven't
seen it yet. I'm looking forward to seeing it. It looks pretty intriguing just based on the
trailers. So I can't wait to review it. But that does it for this episode. We want to give
a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken Johnson, John Strosky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin
Belcombe, Mickey Mathen-Geehan, Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi
Scott Camacho and Adam Spees for helping make this podcast possible. And we'll talk to you
guys next week. Up up and away, true believers.