1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:02,972 This is a Dynamike Network podcast. 2 00:00:24,994 --> 00:00:30,155 Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate 3 00:00:30,175 --> 00:00:35,777 the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. 4 00:00:36,217 --> 00:00:42,719 I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are doing a duel 5 00:00:42,959 --> 00:00:48,440 between the characters Dorothy Spinner from The Doom Patrol and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. 6 00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:54,106 This is the final duel in lead up to our big team duel next episode. where we're gonna pit 7 00:00:54,146 --> 00:00:59,527 the teams of Doom Patrol and Guardians of the Galaxy against each other. Yeah, Dorothy Spinner 8 00:00:59,687 --> 00:01:06,169 and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are both little girl superheroes with big monsters as backup, 9 00:01:06,349 --> 00:01:10,210 basically. It'll be a lot of fun to break down these characters. Moon Girl has a fantastic 10 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:15,392 backstory that I was really glad to dive into, so can't wait to talk all about her and figure 11 00:01:15,472 --> 00:01:19,753 out who the heck's gonna win this matchup later on this episode. Before that, we're gonna break 12 00:01:19,773 --> 00:01:25,060 down the comic book movie news to come out in the past week. of which there isn't much due 13 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:30,165 to the ongoing strikes. There was like a 45 second Loki season 2 teaser, so we're going 14 00:01:30,225 --> 00:01:35,290 to talk about that. Yeah and this episode is actually sponsored by the Chronicle AI card 15 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:42,077 game that Jonathan and I invented. That's right, we are sponsoring our own episode because we 16 00:01:42,097 --> 00:01:46,764 can. it's our podcast. So we're going to talk a little bit about the card game that Jonathan 17 00:01:46,784 --> 00:01:50,886 and I made. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to 18 00:01:50,926 --> 00:01:55,208 check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. As our listeners 19 00:01:55,248 --> 00:02:00,451 may know, our duel simulator is so advanced that it's gained sentience and has named itself 20 00:02:00,511 --> 00:02:06,114 the artificial life form for running extensive duels, just a rather very intelligent simulator 21 00:02:06,374 --> 00:02:14,826 9000, or Alfred Jarvis 9000. Here's a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why 22 00:02:14,886 --> 00:02:19,688 hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of 23 00:02:19,728 --> 00:02:24,810 the dynamic dual community on Patreon where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic 24 00:02:24,850 --> 00:02:30,232 2-0 tier lets you listen to this podcast without ads and gives you access to its Discord chat 25 00:02:30,252 --> 00:02:35,098 group where you can chat with Johnny DC and Marvelous Joe. The Fantastic Four tier gives 26 00:02:35,138 --> 00:02:39,960 you that and more with two bonus episodes each month, including bloopers and top ten shows 27 00:02:39,980 --> 00:02:44,783 where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel and DC subjects. The X-Force tier makes 28 00:02:44,803 --> 00:02:49,425 you an executive producer of Dynamic Duel, where every month you help the host choose what to 29 00:02:49,465 --> 00:02:54,627 review and who to fight against each other. And finally, the Dynamite Podcast Network tier 30 00:02:54,927 --> 00:02:59,970 allows aspiring podcasters to create their own battle-focused show using this Monte Carlo 31 00:03:00,010 --> 00:03:00,550 simulator. 32 00:03:03,632 --> 00:03:07,852 graphic support and consultation and get you simulation results to announce on your show. 33 00:03:08,372 --> 00:03:13,814 Pitch the twins your show via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by reaching out to them on 34 00:03:13,894 --> 00:03:21,255 social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic duel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks, J9K, 35 00:03:21,495 --> 00:03:25,856 and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Be sure to tune into the Max Destruction podcast 36 00:03:25,876 --> 00:03:30,957 this Wednesday, where Ken and Dustin find out who'd win in a fight between John Matrix from 37 00:03:31,017 --> 00:03:33,511 the Commando Movie. versus Robocop. 38 00:03:56,566 --> 00:04:01,349 A No Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, 39 00:04:01,389 --> 00:04:05,911 is a digital award we post on Instagram and in our email newsletter for the person that 40 00:04:05,951 --> 00:04:11,335 we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. We got a lot of great answers 41 00:04:11,375 --> 00:04:16,738 this time. I think a total of eight people called in. Unfortunately, we can only pick four answers 42 00:04:16,938 --> 00:04:22,442 and there were only really four answers to give because the question last week was... What 43 00:04:22,482 --> 00:04:27,645 was your favorite Marvel or DC cartoon from the 90s and why? I think the answers will be 44 00:04:27,705 --> 00:04:33,228 pretty obvious, but it'll be interesting to see which one comes out on top. Our first honorable 45 00:04:33,328 --> 00:04:38,070 mention goes to Dustin Balcom, who said, Hey, dynamic duelist Dustin Balcom here and I am 46 00:04:38,130 --> 00:04:45,054 jumping in right away to get my answer because I'm not going to let these DC robots come out 47 00:04:45,074 --> 00:04:51,310 and just say Batman the animated series because it is good, but my gosh grow personality. The 48 00:04:51,370 --> 00:04:57,254 real answer is the 90s Spider-Man cartoon because it was just perfection. And that's all I got 49 00:04:57,274 --> 00:05:02,738 to say. That's right, Jonathan. Anyone who thinks that Batman the Animated Series was the best 50 00:05:02,758 --> 00:05:08,362 cartoon of the 90s basically has no personality, according to Dustin. And he's right. The best 51 00:05:08,402 --> 00:05:13,646 cartoon is actually Spider-Man, which was a fantastic adaptation of the comic books. It 52 00:05:13,706 --> 00:05:17,248 introduced kids to a whole bunch of other Marvel superheroes. There were a lot of crossovers 53 00:05:17,288 --> 00:05:22,700 in that show. Killer opening theme song. and the show gave us the first example of the Spider-Verse. 54 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:30,225 I dunno, sounds kinda boring to me. What? Yeah. I mean, big whoop. You know you watched that 55 00:05:30,265 --> 00:05:36,269 shit. I did, it was good I guess. Travis Herndon and Lizzie Dyer Arnie also gave the answer 56 00:05:36,569 --> 00:05:43,194 of the 90's Spider-Man cartoon. But Colby Hentges gave this answer. Hey boys, Colby Hentges. 57 00:05:43,594 --> 00:05:47,937 I know these are usually opinion questions and there's no right or wrong answer, but this 58 00:05:47,977 --> 00:05:53,135 week is different. If you don't pick Batman, the animated series, you're wrong. It's still 59 00:05:53,175 --> 00:05:58,236 some of the best telling of some of Batman's best stories. Kevin Conroy is Batman. Mark 60 00:05:58,256 --> 00:06:03,578 Hamill is Joker. It's the best. B-Taz or bust. Now, Joseph, I've got to ask you, would you 61 00:06:03,618 --> 00:06:13,561 rather be boring or wrong? Uh, I'd rather be wrong, I guess. That's fine. You rag about 62 00:06:13,581 --> 00:06:17,784 everything, so it makes sense. I love how passionate this week's answers are for this question. 63 00:06:17,924 --> 00:06:23,488 How the DC guys have no personality and how the Marvel guys are just wrong. But they are 64 00:06:23,508 --> 00:06:29,512 because the Batman animated series is so good with the music, with the voice work, even with 65 00:06:29,532 --> 00:06:35,217 the character adaptations. And so influential in terms of what came after it for DC. You 66 00:06:35,237 --> 00:06:40,221 mean like the Superman show, Justice League? Exactly. And even beyond that with the DC animated 67 00:06:40,261 --> 00:06:44,751 movie universe films. Yeah, the legacy of the show is pretty lasting, I'll admit that. We 68 00:06:44,771 --> 00:06:48,614 want to give a shout out to Ezra Garcia who also gave the answer of Batman the Animated 69 00:06:48,654 --> 00:06:56,079 series. Our final honorable mention goes to Scott Camacho who said, Johnny please do not 70 00:06:56,119 --> 00:07:01,463 change the color of my name. But when it comes to this category, I'm going to have to side 71 00:07:01,483 --> 00:07:05,686 with Marvel, mainly the X-Men series. 72 00:07:11,286 --> 00:07:19,453 banger of a soundtrack you cannot get any more than the X-Men. Come on! That's right! Even 73 00:07:19,553 --> 00:07:26,700 a DC fan can admit that the X-Men animated series in the 90s was the best cartoon at that time. 74 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:32,725 Scotty mentioned the opening theme, which is still the best theme in all of cartoons. His 75 00:07:32,765 --> 00:07:38,446 brother, Gilly Macho, also gave the same answer and made great points that... The show pretty 76 00:07:38,466 --> 00:07:44,329 much defined the 90s as far as superheroes go and it was highly influential in getting the 77 00:07:44,449 --> 00:07:50,132 X-Men movie made which in turn probably helped kickstart the MCU. So you know the influence 78 00:07:50,313 --> 00:07:54,275 of the Batman animated series is one thing but I think the influence of the X-Men animated 79 00:07:54,315 --> 00:07:59,758 series was even greater and you know it's coming back on Disney Plus next year. I don't see 80 00:07:59,858 --> 00:08:04,261 Batman the animated series coming back. Well they're trying to do it with Batman Kid Crusader. 81 00:08:04,821 --> 00:08:09,475 I don't know what that is. It's Bruce Timm's new Batman cartoon. Come on, keep up. Why would 82 00:08:09,515 --> 00:08:16,830 I keep up with that? It's DC. Because DC's better. Not according to Scotty. You know, I'm gonna 83 00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:22,273 have to change him to Team Red on the Discord from Team Blue. Scotty, let's strike one. Strike 84 00:08:22,333 --> 00:08:27,295 one, my friend. Thanks to everyone for sending in your answer, but the winner of this week's 85 00:08:27,375 --> 00:08:33,818 No Prize is Brandon Estegard. Who said? I barely make the cut off of a 90s skit. I'm also going 86 00:08:33,838 --> 00:08:38,320 with a show that barely makes a cut and that's Batman Beyond. I don't think there's a wrong 87 00:08:38,420 --> 00:08:42,842 answer to this question, but what's that's Batman above the rest? is that it doesn't have to 88 00:08:42,882 --> 00:08:48,005 rely on storylines from the comics and can still establish amazing episodes. It was a fresh 89 00:08:48,045 --> 00:08:54,648 and creative take on Batman with the updated style from the OG animated series. Yes, Spider-Man, 90 00:08:54,868 --> 00:08:59,311 Batman the animated series, the X-Men animated series were all great, but when you think of 91 00:08:59,351 --> 00:09:04,433 Batman Beyond, it was almost like an amalgamation of everything that made those other shows. 92 00:09:04,770 --> 00:09:09,611 phenomenal. I guess you could say that because you know, it had the cool animation style from 93 00:09:09,672 --> 00:09:14,233 Batman the Animated Series as Brandon mentioned, but it also had, you know, the killer soundtrack 94 00:09:14,313 --> 00:09:18,835 like the Marvel cartoons did and more mature plots and adult themes and things like that, 95 00:09:18,855 --> 00:09:23,857 you know? Yeah, absolutely. That was a DC cartoon that I think even Marvel fans have to admit 96 00:09:24,077 --> 00:09:30,060 was insanely cool. It was almost like the Marvel version of Batman, right? The fuck? Yeah, I'm 97 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:36,555 just gonna put that out there. Well, I'm not agreeing with that. Now, for as good as Batman 98 00:09:36,575 --> 00:09:43,019 Beyond was, I think X-Men actually was the clear winner for this question. However, Brandon 99 00:09:43,060 --> 00:09:47,443 was the only person to give the answer of Batman Beyond, and he got points for originality with 100 00:09:47,463 --> 00:09:52,786 this one, since we don't usually like to let people share No Prizes, you know? Right. Congrats, 101 00:09:52,826 --> 00:09:56,849 Brandon! You win this week's No Prize. If you, the listener, want a shot at winning your own 102 00:09:56,889 --> 00:10:01,412 No Prize, stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another Question of the 103 00:10:01,432 --> 00:10:04,572 Week. And now that that's done... Onto the news! 104 00:10:10,222 --> 00:10:14,183 Alright, there's not much news this past week when it comes from Marvel and DC, but we did 105 00:10:14,243 --> 00:10:21,906 get a teaser of sorts for the upcoming Loki Season 2 on Disney+, which is strange because 106 00:10:21,926 --> 00:10:28,228 we already got a full-on trailer for the show, so it's kind of weird to get a 45 second teaser 107 00:10:28,868 --> 00:10:33,667 after the trailer. Usually that's flipped around. But we did get some pretty interesting new 108 00:10:33,687 --> 00:10:39,511 shots of what's going down in Loki season 2 starting October 6. Like we said with the trailer, 109 00:10:39,551 --> 00:10:46,256 this all looks phenomenal. The cinematography and the visual effects are movie level. In 110 00:10:46,296 --> 00:10:49,999 some cases, it looks even better than how the movie looks, especially when it comes to the 111 00:10:50,059 --> 00:10:54,842 set design and stuff. The teaser basically introduces the concept that Loki is being pulled through 112 00:10:54,962 --> 00:11:01,127 space and time involuntarily. He meets up with Sylvie, who... appears is hiding out in like 113 00:11:01,547 --> 00:11:07,590 McDonald's in the 1970s after the events of season one where she Killed he who remains 114 00:11:07,831 --> 00:11:12,053 and kickstarted the multiverse She still has the really bad haircut But Loki and Sylvie 115 00:11:12,093 --> 00:11:16,736 joined forces here going up against Victor Timely who we get some new shots of Jonathan Majors 116 00:11:16,816 --> 00:11:24,020 playing the character we also see Rhona Renslayer from season one who in the comics is King of 117 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:30,104 the conquerors romantic interest She appears to be in Victor Timely's timeline, and she's 118 00:11:30,124 --> 00:11:35,047 holding this futuristic laser gun type device. Yeah, it makes me wonder whose side she's on. 119 00:11:35,487 --> 00:11:39,410 Like, is she gonna try and stop Kang, or is she gonna try and stop Loki? That's a great 120 00:11:39,450 --> 00:11:46,075 question. My inclination is that she's on Kang's side, and she's probably his only ally, especially 121 00:11:46,115 --> 00:11:52,459 since she was such a firm believer in the TVA and its mission, even after she realized that 122 00:11:52,539 --> 00:11:59,435 the leaders of the TVA were just lifeless automatons. True, yeah, true. I mean, for a teaser, it 123 00:11:59,475 --> 00:12:03,536 definitely teases. I don't know if I mentioned this in our review of the latest trailer that 124 00:12:03,576 --> 00:12:08,839 came out, but Loki was my favorite thing to come out of the post-Endgame era of the Marvel 125 00:12:08,899 --> 00:12:14,481 universe, next to Shang-Chi. So I'm really looking forward to this, really intrigued by the marketing 126 00:12:14,501 --> 00:12:18,863 that they're putting out for it, even if it's just a 45-second teaser. Yeah, I'm also super 127 00:12:18,903 --> 00:12:22,284 excited. We have less than a month before this show comes out, and perhaps we'll get another 128 00:12:22,344 --> 00:12:27,394 full-length trailer before that time, but we'll see. That does it for the news for this episode. 129 00:12:27,474 --> 00:12:33,117 Jonathan and I want to briefly remind listeners that we created a card game for all you card 130 00:12:33,137 --> 00:12:38,559 gamers and tabletop gamers out there and board gamers. Jonathan and I have a deck building 131 00:12:38,979 --> 00:12:44,121 card game that we developed over the span of 10 years or so and we've been told that it's 132 00:12:44,222 --> 00:12:49,804 really fun and we played it and we think it's really fun. So if you guys are into that kind 133 00:12:49,844 --> 00:12:56,035 of stuff at all, visit ChronicleAIGame.com which we will link in the show notes, and check out 134 00:12:56,055 --> 00:13:00,898 the card game. Jonathan and I put a lot of work into it and would appreciate any and all support 135 00:13:01,179 --> 00:13:06,562 you guys can give in that capacity. We do have a Marvel versus DC version of this card game 136 00:13:06,863 --> 00:13:12,347 exclusive to patrons. So whether or not you get the Chronicle AI version of the game, which 137 00:13:12,447 --> 00:13:18,431 is robot themed, or the Marvel versus DC version of the game, which we called Infinity Crisis, 138 00:13:18,651 --> 00:13:22,662 let us know if you pick it up and what you think about it. We'd love for you to play it. We 139 00:13:22,682 --> 00:13:26,530 think it's great, and we think you'll think the same. But speaking of card games, that 140 00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:28,233 brings us to our question of the week. 141 00:13:32,718 --> 00:13:40,161 To all the gamers out there, what is your favorite non-video game, for Marvel or DC, and why? 142 00:13:40,301 --> 00:13:45,443 You know, such as board games, card games, tabletop games, anything physical like that you've played. 143 00:13:45,903 --> 00:13:50,345 Yeah, Jonathan and I are big fans of board games and stuff like that, so largely this question 144 00:13:50,385 --> 00:13:54,066 is to help inform me, I think, about some of the things that are out there that I may not 145 00:13:54,106 --> 00:13:58,848 know about that I would love to check out. So record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking 146 00:13:58,888 --> 00:14:02,686 on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. which will prompt 147 00:14:02,726 --> 00:14:07,130 you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long and don't forget to 148 00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:11,854 leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and 149 00:14:11,894 --> 00:14:16,278 award that person a Dynamic Dual Note Prize that we'll post to Instagram and our email 150 00:14:16,318 --> 00:14:19,801 newsletter. Be sure to answer before September 16th. 151 00:14:27,414 --> 00:14:31,176 That does it for the news portion of this episode. Now let's move on to the main event, where 152 00:14:31,236 --> 00:14:37,020 we find out who's going to win in a match between the Doom Patrol's Dorothy Spinner against Moon 153 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,441 Girl and Devil Dinosaur. 154 00:14:53,718 --> 00:14:57,959 Okay, Dorothy Spinner against Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Of course, you'll be familiar 155 00:14:57,979 --> 00:15:03,520 with Dorothy Spinner if you've seen any of the HBO Max Doom Patrol series, or I guess it's 156 00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:08,882 just Max now. Phenomenal series. If you haven't watched it, I definitely recommend it, especially 157 00:15:08,922 --> 00:15:14,003 season two, the season that Dorothy Spinner is featured in. Yeah, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 158 00:15:14,043 --> 00:15:20,025 actually have their own show too on the Disney Kids channel and on Disney Plus, which is actually 159 00:15:20,145 --> 00:15:26,227 incredible for a character that just came out. in 2016. I think to go from non-existence when 160 00:15:26,347 --> 00:15:32,068 this podcast started to having a full-on show of their own is a real testament to how cool 161 00:15:32,108 --> 00:15:36,249 the characters of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are. I highly recommend the cartoon. It is 162 00:15:36,269 --> 00:15:42,651 for kids, but it is highly inspired visually by the Spider-Verse films. It's not 3D animated, 163 00:15:42,691 --> 00:15:47,772 it's 2D, but there's a lot of cool stuff in there that's very comic book-y. That's cool. 164 00:15:47,792 --> 00:15:53,210 Is it Moon Girl or Devil Dinosaur or both that were created in 2016? Well, Devil Dinosaur 165 00:15:53,270 --> 00:15:59,353 dates back to the 1960s as a creation of Jack Kirby. Oh wow. Moon Girl was created much more 166 00:15:59,373 --> 00:16:03,514 recently, and I go into that a little bit in my history. In addition to the shows, you know, 167 00:16:03,714 --> 00:16:07,776 also check out the comics. The Doom Patrol comics are very highly recommended, especially the 168 00:16:07,816 --> 00:16:12,358 run by Grant Morrison. And I have to say, in my research for this episode, I had a whole 169 00:16:12,398 --> 00:16:16,980 lot of fun going back reading the first two arcs for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Nice. 170 00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:21,574 Well, let's get into it. To explain the methodology behind our duels. Let's go to our sentient 171 00:16:21,634 --> 00:16:27,778 dual simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ9K, tell our listeners how you go about determining 172 00:16:27,838 --> 00:16:33,301 a winner in our dual matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the 173 00:16:33,341 --> 00:16:38,224 contestants is by running 1,000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics. 174 00:16:38,704 --> 00:16:43,147 A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random 175 00:16:43,207 --> 00:16:49,026 sampling. In this case, I randomized the statistics along a normal distribution. as a way to simulate 176 00:16:49,046 --> 00:16:53,628 the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official 177 00:16:53,688 --> 00:16:59,010 Marvel power grid from which the DC characters' statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat 178 00:16:59,030 --> 00:17:04,573 categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order 179 00:17:04,593 --> 00:17:10,015 to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide 180 00:17:10,035 --> 00:17:14,417 a percentage of wins for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared 181 00:17:14,437 --> 00:17:19,721 the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, 182 00:17:20,102 --> 00:17:24,906 neither character should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's 183 00:17:25,046 --> 00:17:29,850 even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line 184 00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:34,473 with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations 185 00:17:34,514 --> 00:17:39,678 are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes 186 00:17:39,718 --> 00:17:45,959 tabulated for determination of the winner. Thanks, AG9K! Before we run the simulations though, 187 00:17:46,159 --> 00:17:50,702 we like to break down each character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario 188 00:17:50,882 --> 00:17:55,926 on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out B for B. And I believe it's 189 00:17:56,006 --> 00:18:01,510 my turn to go first with the DC characters backstory, so let me tell you all about Dorothy Spinner. 190 00:18:01,991 --> 00:18:07,655 Her backstory is a little bit of a downer, but here it is. Now, Dorothy Spinner was born with 191 00:18:07,695 --> 00:18:13,826 an ape-like facial disfiguration and hairy limbs. resulting in her birth mother giving her up 192 00:18:13,846 --> 00:18:19,889 for adoption while Dorothy was still an infant. Adopted by the Spinner family, Dorothy was 193 00:18:19,969 --> 00:18:26,452 raised as an only child on a farm in rural Kansas. With many in the community repulsed by Dorothy's 194 00:18:26,492 --> 00:18:31,954 appearance and due to excessive bullying from other children, the Spinners isolated Dorothy 195 00:18:32,054 --> 00:18:38,276 on their farm, which occupied much of the Spinner's time. As a result of her loneliness and isolation, 196 00:18:38,677 --> 00:18:44,163 Dorothy developed imaginary friends, which she was unknowingly able to bring to life due to 197 00:18:44,203 --> 00:18:49,926 her psychic mind. Her friends taught her to read and write and told her stories, such as 198 00:18:49,967 --> 00:18:56,030 The Wizard of Oz, which Dorothy enjoyed. One day, while picking flowers outside, Dorothy 199 00:18:56,050 --> 00:19:02,133 was accosted by a young boy named Bernard Muller and his two friends, who all teased and attacked 200 00:19:02,173 --> 00:19:07,797 her. When Dorothy made her way back to her barn to find that Bernard had hung her cat, she 201 00:19:07,857 --> 00:19:12,848 wished that Bernard was dead. It was at this point that the Candlemaker emerged from her 202 00:19:12,908 --> 00:19:19,452 mind, a being capable of granting wishes. After making the wish to the Candlemaker, Bernard 203 00:19:19,472 --> 00:19:24,776 was found in a field the next morning by his friends, crucified and disemboweled. At the 204 00:19:24,816 --> 00:19:30,019 funeral, Dorothy vowed to never make another wish from the Candlemaker again and buried 205 00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:35,863 him deep in her mind. At age 11, Dorothy began being frightened by the stories that her imaginary 206 00:19:35,903 --> 00:19:42,560 friends were telling her. from the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Andersen. When three 207 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:48,425 imaginary family members tried to get Dorothy to wear red shoes, they reminded Dorothy of 208 00:19:48,445 --> 00:19:53,189 a fairy tale about a girl who couldn't stop dancing until her legs were chopped off. Dorothy 209 00:19:53,229 --> 00:19:57,693 told them that she had something to show them behind the barn, at which point Dorothy shot 210 00:19:57,733 --> 00:20:03,778 and killed them with an imaginary gun. A few years later, a battle between a team of superhero 211 00:20:03,878 --> 00:20:09,790 outcasts known as the Doom Patrol and the Lord of Chaos named Pythia. spilled onto the Spinner 212 00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:15,694 farm. Home alone, Dorothy got swept up into the battle and helped the superhero team defeat 213 00:20:15,734 --> 00:20:21,557 Pytheia when the others seemingly died in the pandemonium. Dorothy was made an honorary member 214 00:20:21,597 --> 00:20:26,740 of the Doom Patrol and was shocked when they called her their friend. After realizing that 215 00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:32,503 their daughter had psychic powers, the Spinners called Dr. Niles Calder, aka the Chief, who 216 00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:37,874 you can learn more about in our Chief vs. Professor X dual episode. The Chief agreed to help care 217 00:20:37,894 --> 00:20:43,177 for Dorothy and brought her to the Doom Patrol's new headquarters, the Secret Sanctuary in Happy 218 00:20:43,197 --> 00:20:48,440 Harbor, Rhode Island, a former base of the Justice League, which contained a vault of souvenirs 219 00:20:48,761 --> 00:20:55,324 from past Justice League battles. One of those souvenirs was the Materiopticon, formerly wielded 220 00:20:55,384 --> 00:21:00,487 by the villain Dr. Destiny and Dream of the Endless before him, the latter of whom you 221 00:21:00,507 --> 00:21:07,352 can learn more about in our Sandman Due to the Materiopticon's ability to turn dreams into 222 00:21:07,392 --> 00:21:14,076 reality, Dorothy's imaginary family Damal, Darling Come Home, and Flying Robert came back to life 223 00:21:14,116 --> 00:21:19,840 and attacked Dorothy for killing them, still trying to get her to wear the red shoes. Realizing 224 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,804 the red shoes symbolized Dorothy's fear of menstruation, the Doom Patrol's resident health and psychiatric 225 00:21:25,964 --> 00:21:32,048 aide Joshua Clay destroyed the machine powering the Materiopticon, which robbed the imaginary 226 00:21:32,088 --> 00:21:37,331 beings of much of their strength. Before they vanished, Dorothy accepted the red shoes and 227 00:21:37,391 --> 00:21:42,834 her own womanhood, realizing the shoes were ruby slippers after all, and that she was at 228 00:21:42,894 --> 00:21:48,557 home with the Doom Patrol. When the team relocated their headquarters onto Danny the Street, who 229 00:21:48,597 --> 00:21:54,221 you can learn more about in our Danny the Street vs. Kerkoa episode, Dorothy and new Doom Patrol 230 00:21:54,261 --> 00:22:00,524 member Flexmantello were kidnapped by an organization known as the Men from Nowhere, who imprisoned 231 00:22:00,564 --> 00:22:05,723 them in the sub-sub basement of the Pentagon. known as the Ant Farm, in order to harness 232 00:22:05,763 --> 00:22:11,606 their psychic power to summon an all-powerful entity known as the Telephone Avatar. Although 233 00:22:11,647 --> 00:22:16,309 Flex Mantello managed to weaken the Telephone Avatar by flexing a muscle that turned the 234 00:22:16,349 --> 00:22:21,413 Pentagon into a circle, Flex and Dorothy would have been killed were it not for Dorothy wishing 235 00:22:21,453 --> 00:22:27,156 for the Candlemaker to save her and her friends before passing out. When she awoke, she saw 236 00:22:27,196 --> 00:22:32,090 the Telephone Avatar hanging from the ceiling. With the Candlemaker constantly intruding into 237 00:22:32,150 --> 00:22:37,972 Dorothy's thoughts afterward, asking her for wishes, Dorothy confessed to Joshua what the 238 00:22:38,012 --> 00:22:43,053 Candlemaker had done before she collapsed from mental exhaustion. When Joshua went to the 239 00:22:43,113 --> 00:22:49,015 Chief for help, the Chief shot and killed Joshua for interrupting him. When Dorothy came to 240 00:22:49,095 --> 00:22:54,797 and found Joshua dead, the Candlemaker emerged and asked Dorothy if she wished that Joshua 241 00:22:54,877 --> 00:23:00,964 were alive. When she said that she did, The Candlemaker resurrected Joshua, only to kill 242 00:23:00,984 --> 00:23:06,367 him immediately afterward, to Dorothy's horror. Having gained enough power from Dorothy's wishes 243 00:23:06,488 --> 00:23:12,692 to emerge into the world fully formed, the Candlemaker decapitated the Chief and destroyed Robotman's 244 00:23:12,732 --> 00:23:18,196 human brain before attacking the world's soul in New York City, causing people to go insane. 245 00:23:18,656 --> 00:23:24,000 After learning that the Candlemaker was really an ancient malevolent entity that used Dorothy's 246 00:23:27,010 --> 00:23:32,574 The Doom Patrol eventually defeated Candlemaker, with Dorothy delivering the killing blow by 247 00:23:32,634 --> 00:23:38,479 blowing out the Candlemaker's final flame. The Doom Patrol disbanded afterward, forcing Dorothy 248 00:23:38,499 --> 00:23:44,063 to enter the real world and get an apartment. Having to deal with continual harassment from 249 00:23:44,224 --> 00:23:49,848 onlookers whenever she had to leave the house, Dorothy was also bombarded by African spirits 250 00:23:50,128 --> 00:23:52,190 who kept asking her to join their world. 251 00:23:56,718 --> 00:24:01,159 though she was encouraged by the scientist William Magnus, who you can learn more about in our 252 00:24:01,199 --> 00:24:07,320 Metal Men vs. Colossus duel episode, to overcome her fear of the real world. After being attacked 253 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:12,422 by spirit-possessed mannequins at a shopping mall, Dorothy was saved by Robotman, who you 254 00:24:12,442 --> 00:24:17,503 can learn more about in our Robotman vs. Think episode. The two of them helped reform the 255 00:24:17,523 --> 00:24:23,165 Doom Patrol, though Dorothy found herself depressed due to her inexperience and frequent inability 256 00:24:23,205 --> 00:24:29,323 to contribute to the team as much as she wanted. After befriending a magical doll named Charlie, 257 00:24:29,703 --> 00:24:35,365 who she later learned was possessed by the spirit of a rabbi, Dorothy helped Charlie reform the 258 00:24:35,425 --> 00:24:40,947 Holy Grail with the power of her imagination, and Charlie's spirit departed, his mission 259 00:24:40,987 --> 00:24:46,550 completed. Alone again, Dorothy was taken on a camping trip by robot man and fellow Doom 260 00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:52,172 Patrol member named Coagula to let her know that her adoptive father had died in a wheat 261 00:24:52,192 --> 00:24:58,326 thrusher accident, and that they found her biological mother. who was going to meet them soon. Upon 262 00:24:58,387 --> 00:25:03,529 realizing that she was being asked to leave the Doom Patrol in order to live a normal life 263 00:25:03,549 --> 00:25:10,231 with her mom, Dorothy unleashed a psychic explosion in a fit of immense rejection that killed Quagula, 264 00:25:10,511 --> 00:25:17,594 destroyed Robotman, and put herself into a coma. After a new Doom Patrol team formed, its version 265 00:25:17,654 --> 00:25:23,817 of Robotman eventually realized that he was an imaginary version created by Dorothy in 266 00:25:23,857 --> 00:25:31,301 her vegetative state. When the real, newly assembled Robotman realized what was going on, he visited 267 00:25:31,341 --> 00:25:36,804 Dorothy in the hospital and made the traumatic decision to take her off of life support, and 268 00:25:36,844 --> 00:25:43,527 Dorothy soon died. And she remains dead in post-Flashpoint continuity, though Robotman keeps a photo of 269 00:25:43,567 --> 00:25:49,951 the two of them and visits her grave every week. Powers-wise, Dorothy is a powerful yet somewhat 270 00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:56,458 unstable psychic, capable of bringing her imaginary friends to life. sometimes unwillingly. As 271 00:25:56,498 --> 00:26:02,000 a young girl, many of her imaginary friends manifest as symbols of her emotions, often 272 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:08,842 fear, or as character interpretations from stories she's read or heard, and occasionally as recreations 273 00:26:08,882 --> 00:26:15,163 of people she knows. This includes but is not limited to Pretty Miss Dot, who has lipsticks 274 00:26:15,203 --> 00:26:20,965 for fingers that can shoot fire, Paddle the Sky, a swirling mass of hands holding paddles, 275 00:26:21,465 --> 00:26:28,229 Heart of Ice, A woman made of ice that can freeze things Dark is the morning A shadow creature 276 00:26:28,249 --> 00:26:34,913 with a giant fanged mouth Cowboy doll book face A gun-wielding cowboy made of dolls with a 277 00:26:35,013 --> 00:26:42,398 book for a face And Spinner, a superhero adult version of Dorothy who's a member of the imagined 278 00:26:42,478 --> 00:26:48,818 team the Doom Force and can manifest the nightmares of her opponents. That's Dorothy Spinner. That 279 00:26:48,918 --> 00:26:53,139 was a lot darker than I thought it was going to be and very much a downer. It is like the 280 00:26:53,239 --> 00:26:58,802 exact opposite of the Moon Girl Devil Dinosaur backstory, which is largely pretty fun and 281 00:26:58,842 --> 00:27:04,184 cute. And yeah, not at all what Dorothy Spinner's story is. Yeah, it's probably like the most 282 00:27:04,284 --> 00:27:09,666 depressing backstory of any DC character I've ever done a bio for in the span of this podcast. 283 00:27:10,146 --> 00:27:14,988 So let's cheer up everyone with Moon Girl's backstory. Yeah, I'm glad I'm going second 284 00:27:15,028 --> 00:27:19,807 here. Here's the backstory for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. In prehistoric times, in an 285 00:27:19,907 --> 00:27:25,172 alternate dimension existed Dinosaur World, a planet where dinosaurs lived alongside the 286 00:27:25,212 --> 00:27:30,856 Neanderthal tribes of early humans. Within a region of active volcanoes called the Valley 287 00:27:30,897 --> 00:27:37,142 of Flame, the most aggressive hominid tribe called the Killer Folk dominated other, less 288 00:27:37,202 --> 00:27:42,726 hostile tribes such as the Small Folk. When a group of Killer Folk came across a female 289 00:27:42,766 --> 00:27:47,870 Tyrannosaurus rex-like dinosaur and her young, they attacked and killed the mother and two 290 00:27:47,910 --> 00:27:52,853 of her children. They offered the third young dinosaur as a sacrifice to their volcano god 291 00:27:53,154 --> 00:27:58,998 by burning it alive with the fire from their torches. The beast nearly died, but was rescued 292 00:27:59,058 --> 00:28:04,662 by a boy from the Smallfolk tribe who witnessed the massacre. The Neanderthal child's name 293 00:28:04,742 --> 00:28:09,865 was Moonboy, as he was the only member of his tribe who was brave enough to go out at night. 294 00:28:10,454 --> 00:28:15,516 He saw that the flames had turned the dinosaur scales a fiery red, and the boy took care of 295 00:28:15,576 --> 00:28:21,378 it, naming him Devil. Moonboy and Devil Dinosaur formed a close bond, and together they fought 296 00:28:21,418 --> 00:28:25,900 and defeated the Killer Folk tribe, claiming the Valley of Flame for the small folk and 297 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:32,443 protecting the lands from other dinosaurs and monsters. Meanwhile, universes away, an autistic 298 00:28:32,603 --> 00:28:38,525 9-year-old girl named Lunela Lafayette grew up on the lower east side of Manhattan. Brilliant. 299 00:28:38,902 --> 00:28:44,406 but shy and mocked for her awkwardness, Lunela acquired the nickname Moon Girl due to her 300 00:28:44,466 --> 00:28:50,150 constant daydreaming about strange gadgets and inventions. When the inhuman hero Black Bolt 301 00:28:50,290 --> 00:28:55,875 released the Terrigan Mists into Earth's atmosphere during a battle with Thanos, Lunela believed 302 00:28:55,935 --> 00:29:02,000 she could use her intelligence to help contain the gases. She and others were afraid that 303 00:29:02,060 --> 00:29:06,967 Terrigan exposure would transform them and as the substance was used by the Inhuman race 304 00:29:07,067 --> 00:29:12,569 as a catalyst to change them into their superpowered forms. Inhumans were descendants of a group 305 00:29:12,629 --> 00:29:17,611 of early mankind that were experimented on by the alien race, the Kree, to serve as their 306 00:29:17,671 --> 00:29:24,074 soldiers. Hundreds, if not thousands of people on Earth unknowingly had inhuman genetics and 307 00:29:24,114 --> 00:29:29,516 were being altered due to the pterigen clouds now in the air. You can learn more about pterigenesis, 308 00:29:29,877 --> 00:29:35,488 the Inhumans, and their king Black Bolt in the in our Shazam vs Black Bolt dual episode. Lunella 309 00:29:35,528 --> 00:29:41,594 believed the solution to the Terranian clouds lay in alien Kree science, so she built a device 310 00:29:41,854 --> 00:29:47,339 to help her locate any Kree technology on Earth in order to study it. This led her underneath 311 00:29:47,379 --> 00:29:53,145 the Brooklyn Bridge where she found a Kree device called an Omni-Wave Projector that was capable 312 00:29:53,205 --> 00:30:00,707 of opening portals between time and space. Meanwhile, universes away, Moon Boy happened upon another 313 00:30:00,807 --> 00:30:05,570 Omni-Wave projector that had landed on Dinosaur World that was being worshipped by the Killer 314 00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:11,254 Folk tribe, who called it their Night Stone. The Killer Folk caught Moon Boy with the device 315 00:30:11,494 --> 00:30:17,579 and beat him to death, when suddenly both projectors activated simultaneously, opening a portal 316 00:30:17,619 --> 00:30:23,283 between Earth and Dinosaur World. A group of Killer Folk entered the portal and began terrorizing 317 00:30:23,323 --> 00:30:28,326 the people of present-day Manhattan, but they were followed by Devil Dinosaur, who sought 318 00:30:28,366 --> 00:30:34,049 to avenge Moonboy's death. Devil Dinosaur saved Lunela from the Killer Folk, who had fled their 319 00:30:34,089 --> 00:30:39,912 encounter, and she explained to the semi-intelligent beast that she needed his help to get the Omni-Wave 320 00:30:39,932 --> 00:30:44,795 Projector from the Neanderthals in order to save humanity. Before they could act, however, 321 00:30:44,955 --> 00:30:50,618 Devil Dinosaur was captured and imprisoned in a secret facility. Finding her courage, Lunela 322 00:30:50,658 --> 00:30:58,162 resolved to rescue her friend and equipped a series of homemade gadgets and a suit, After 323 00:30:58,202 --> 00:31:02,605 hacking into a government database to find the dinosaur's whereabouts, she snuck away from 324 00:31:02,645 --> 00:31:07,588 home and broke into the secret facility, using her gadgets to break Devil from his high-tech 325 00:31:07,628 --> 00:31:13,032 cage. Together, the duo tracked the Killer Folk to a Manhattan rooftop where they defeated 326 00:31:13,072 --> 00:31:18,576 the Neanderthal group and recovered the Omni-Wave Projector. However, immediately after their 327 00:31:18,616 --> 00:31:25,340 victory, the Terran Cloud descended upon Lunella, causing her to undergo teragenesis and encasing 328 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,333 her in a giant egg. Devil Dinosaur carried the egg containing Lunela to safety at her secret 329 00:31:31,373 --> 00:31:36,597 lab underneath her elementary school. When she hatched, Lunela could not immediately tell 330 00:31:36,617 --> 00:31:42,142 what the Terrigen had changed about her. However, later at school, she discovered that she would 331 00:31:42,162 --> 00:31:47,327 involuntarily switch minds with Devil Dinosaur, who was back at the lab, whenever she experienced 332 00:31:47,347 --> 00:31:52,731 strong emotions such as anger or hunger, and spontaneously during a full moon. Keeping her 333 00:31:52,771 --> 00:31:57,466 crime fighting a secret from her parents as much as possible, Lunella was eventually discovered 334 00:31:57,526 --> 00:32:04,049 by scientist Amadeus Cho, who administered a test developed by Bruce Banner called the Brain 335 00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:09,551 Omnicompetence Examiner. It was determined that Lunella was probably the most intelligent mind 336 00:32:09,591 --> 00:32:15,434 on Earth, scoring higher than other scientific minds such as Mr. Fantastic. The villain Dr. 337 00:32:15,474 --> 00:32:20,076 Doom took offense to this news and attacked Lunella, but with help from the superhuman 338 00:32:20,116 --> 00:32:25,758 community, including Dr. Strange, the X-Men, and Ironheart, She and Devil Dinosaur were 339 00:32:25,798 --> 00:32:32,140 able to defeat the Doombot army. At one point, the inhuman hero Ms. Marvel recruited Lunella 340 00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:37,061 and Devil Dinosaur to help in the war between the Inhumans and the X-Men, which was caused 341 00:32:37,081 --> 00:32:42,323 by the toxic nature of the Terrigan mists to mutants. Lunella used her knowledge of Kree 342 00:32:42,363 --> 00:32:47,564 technology to help the X-Men scientist Forge miniaturize a version of a machine he designed 343 00:32:47,944 --> 00:32:53,102 that would compress the Terrigan gases into a solid state and incinerate it. You can learn 344 00:32:53,162 --> 00:32:59,205 more about Forge in our Mr. Terrific vs. Forge dual episode. Later, Lunella received a distress 345 00:32:59,225 --> 00:33:04,048 call from space and built a spacecraft so she and Devil Dinosaur could answer it. During 346 00:33:04,088 --> 00:33:09,752 the adventure, her omni-wave projector malfunctioned and the pair ended up back in time on Dinosaur 347 00:33:09,792 --> 00:33:15,835 World, Devil's home planet. There they found Moonboy at the time he discovered the omni-wave 348 00:33:15,875 --> 00:33:20,658 projector and they were able to prevent him from being beaten by the Killer Folk. Knowing 349 00:33:20,718 --> 00:33:26,182 that Devil was back home with his true owner, Lunella decided that leaving Kim with Moonboy 350 00:33:26,222 --> 00:33:31,867 was the right thing to do. She said goodbye, and though Devil Dinosaur protested, she tearfully 351 00:33:31,907 --> 00:33:36,691 told him she didn't want him anymore, and used the projector to travel back to Earth alone. 352 00:33:37,231 --> 00:33:42,776 Sad and isolated, Lunella ended up joining the Thing, Human Torch, and the robot Herbie in 353 00:33:42,816 --> 00:33:47,320 a new version of the Fantastic Four, as Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman were off with 354 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,211 their children recreating the multiverse. You can learn more about that in our Justice Society 355 00:33:52,272 --> 00:33:57,816 vs. Fantastic Four dual episode. Eventually, Lunella used Herbie to open a dimensional portal 356 00:33:57,856 --> 00:34:02,700 to bring Devil Dinosaur back to Earth to help in a fight against the Super Skrull, and the 357 00:34:02,740 --> 00:34:08,645 two were reunited. Lunella admitted she was wrong for leaving Kim, Devil forgave her, and 358 00:34:08,685 --> 00:34:13,489 the two went back to fighting crime on their own. This included helping Doctor Strange rescue 359 00:34:13,569 --> 00:34:19,662 a boy kidnapped by the villain Nightmare, assisting Spider-Man against a Goblin foe, and solving 360 00:34:19,822 --> 00:34:25,383 an unsolvable riddle for Thor that was posed by his brother Loki. The latter adventure revealing 361 00:34:25,443 --> 00:34:30,125 that Devil was worthy of wielding Mjolnir and it transformed him into the Thunder Lizard. 362 00:34:30,565 --> 00:34:35,126 On a family trip to the country of Wakanda, Lunela's parents discovered her secret alter 363 00:34:35,226 --> 00:34:40,548 ego as Moon Girl. They banned her from continuing to fight crime with her dinosaur pet, though 364 00:34:40,568 --> 00:34:46,430 they later compromised as long as Lunela visited with a therapist once a week. At that time, 365 00:34:46,570 --> 00:34:51,914 she formed a support group for fellow newly powered adolescent inhumans called the Support 366 00:34:51,974 --> 00:34:59,259 Alliance Derby for Sensationally Abled Kids, or SADSACS for short. And that's her backstory. 367 00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:04,623 Powers-wise, Moon Girl has the inhuman power to temporarily swap her consciousness with 368 00:35:04,703 --> 00:35:09,966 Devil Dinosaur, her crime-fighting partner. This process is triggered involuntarily, caused 369 00:35:09,986 --> 00:35:14,669 by heightened emotional states and the Fool Moon. She has an exceptionally high intellect. 370 00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:20,154 stated to likely be the smartest person on Earth, and has built a vast array of homemade gadgets 371 00:35:20,194 --> 00:35:25,838 for her crime fighting activities. This includes, but is not limited to, spectrum scanning goggles, 372 00:35:26,359 --> 00:35:32,464 spring-loaded boxing gloves, rocket-powered roller skates, a helicopter backpack, a plunger-tipped 373 00:35:32,524 --> 00:35:39,389 taser gun, sneeze-powder grenades, a flashlight flashbang, and so many other toys in her utility 374 00:35:39,409 --> 00:35:44,593 belt. She can invent nearly anything she puts her gifted mind to, physically through engineering, 375 00:35:44,998 --> 00:35:50,581 or digitally through computer programming. Devil Dinosaur is a physically and mentally enhanced 376 00:35:50,682 --> 00:35:56,506 Tyrannosaurus Rex-like dinosaur via genetic mutation awakened when he was set aflame as 377 00:35:56,526 --> 00:36:02,230 a youngling. He has increased durability and strength, able to lift around 25 tons, and 378 00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:07,433 his scaly hide is immune to heat and strong enough to be bulletproof. Devil Dinosaur's 379 00:36:07,453 --> 00:36:13,277 fangs, claws, and his sense of smell are razor sharp, and he can track nearly anyone by their 380 00:36:13,317 --> 00:36:18,745 scent. He has human level reasoning abilities and can fully understand moon girl's commands. 381 00:36:19,266 --> 00:36:24,150 That's moon girl in devil dinosaur. Wait, so when devil dinosaur takes over moon girl's 382 00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:29,414 body, is she just like this snarling creature who's like always hungry? Yeah, she looks quite 383 00:36:29,434 --> 00:36:35,759 feral actually. It's kind of funny when it happens. Interesting. And her friends are aware of what's 384 00:36:35,799 --> 00:36:41,724 going on or they aren't? No, she just gets further ostracized for being weird when she swaps minds 385 00:36:41,744 --> 00:36:46,623 with devil dinosaur during school time. That's funny. That's cute. What a cute character. 386 00:36:47,164 --> 00:36:51,987 Yeah. And she freaking lives at the end. Yeah, that's because Marvel is for little kids, bro. 387 00:36:52,147 --> 00:36:59,792 OK. All right. DC is for the adults. Sad adults, but adults nonetheless. I mean, what adult 388 00:36:59,852 --> 00:37:00,353 isn't sad? 389 00:37:08,814 --> 00:37:12,374 So now that we got the characters' histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate 390 00:37:12,434 --> 00:37:17,356 on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, 391 00:37:17,796 --> 00:37:22,057 not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how the fight could play out. Alfred Jarvis 392 00:37:22,097 --> 00:37:27,779 9000, what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other 393 00:37:27,799 --> 00:37:31,840 than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they 394 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,401 are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. 395 00:37:36,781 --> 00:37:42,120 For the speculation... contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript 396 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,963 environment that will have no bearing on the match itself as no environmental statistics 397 00:37:46,984 --> 00:37:52,327 are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright 398 00:37:52,347 --> 00:37:57,210 then let's get into it! Dorothy Spinner and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur meet on the battlefield. 399 00:37:57,611 --> 00:38:03,215 Who goes first? Honestly this is kind of hard because I don't think either character would 400 00:38:03,255 --> 00:38:09,783 attack the other really. Like they'd probably commiserate and want to be but that's too bad 401 00:38:09,803 --> 00:38:15,046 because the purpose of the podcast is to see who would win in no holds barred action. So 402 00:38:15,066 --> 00:38:22,010 we're gonna make these children fight, damn it. All right, I figured that once Dorothy 403 00:38:22,090 --> 00:38:29,114 sees Devil Dinosaur, she's gonna freak out and probably summon Pretty Miss Dot, who's kind 404 00:38:29,134 --> 00:38:36,450 of her go-to when she's in danger. So this weird entity wearing a helmet with lips. and curlers 405 00:38:36,490 --> 00:38:42,354 and lipstick fingers flies toward Devil Dinosaur and begins blasting him with fire. Alright, 406 00:38:42,394 --> 00:38:48,398 well that does nothing. Devil Dinosaur is immune to fire, so all this attack is gonna do is 407 00:38:48,419 --> 00:38:53,322 just piss him off. So he's infuriated and he's gonna roar real loud and then he's just gonna 408 00:38:53,382 --> 00:38:59,586 chomp down on Pretty Mistat with his razor sharp teeth. Meanwhile, Moon Girl is gonna roller 409 00:38:59,606 --> 00:39:04,169 skate over to Dorothy and just knock her the hell out with a spring-loaded boxing glove. 410 00:39:04,618 --> 00:39:09,679 Yeah, except that now Dorothy is emotionally traumatized by having seen Pretty Miss Dot 411 00:39:09,739 --> 00:39:15,941 just die like that. So while Moon Girl was approaching Dorothy, she's going to conjure several more 412 00:39:16,021 --> 00:39:22,483 entities. And we'll go with Paddle the Sky for Moon Girl and Heart of Ice for Devil Dinosaur, 413 00:39:22,563 --> 00:39:27,484 since Fire didn't do anything to him. So not only does Moon Girl's boxing glove get knocked 414 00:39:27,544 --> 00:39:33,386 out of the way, she also gets paddled numerous times by Paddle the Sky. And Devil Dinosaur 415 00:39:33,426 --> 00:39:39,547 is now encased in ice. Remind, what do Paddle of the Sky and Heart of Ice look like? Paddle 416 00:39:39,567 --> 00:39:45,169 of the Sky is literally a spinning vortex of hands holding wooden paddles. And Heart of 417 00:39:45,249 --> 00:39:51,971 Ice is just a woman made of ice. Okay. Uh, not gonna lie, I don't think Moon Girl would be 418 00:39:52,031 --> 00:39:58,833 well equipped for all this weirdness. But she's gonna evade the paddles by activating her spring-loaded 419 00:39:58,893 --> 00:40:04,303 roller skates to launch herself into the air. And then she's going to switch on her helicopter 420 00:40:04,323 --> 00:40:10,085 backpack. So she's flying through the air. And as this paddle creature is chasing her, Moon 421 00:40:10,125 --> 00:40:15,727 Girl's going to pilot over toward Devil Dinosaur. And then she's going to quickly zip out of 422 00:40:15,747 --> 00:40:22,950 the way so that paddle guy crashes into Devil Dinosaur, who's in the ice. And basically the 423 00:40:22,990 --> 00:40:28,813 paddles are going to break Devil Dinosaur out of his ice casing. Yeah, right. So now that 424 00:40:28,913 --> 00:40:35,127 Devil Dinosaur is free, He's just gonna tackle paddle the sky out of the sky and just eviscerate 425 00:40:35,147 --> 00:40:41,008 it turning those paddles into Splinters I hope you choke on them And while that's happening 426 00:40:41,689 --> 00:40:47,630 moon girl is gonna whip out a hairdryer That she outfitted as a flamethrower and she's just 427 00:40:47,650 --> 00:40:55,252 gonna melt the ice lady to a puddle Dude keep killing Dorothy's imaginary friends. See what 428 00:40:55,292 --> 00:41:02,094 happens. She's got some weird ass friends, you know Even you've got insoles for her. Wow. 429 00:41:02,654 --> 00:41:07,536 She can't catch a break, can she? Dude, these friends are objectively weird. I don't think 430 00:41:07,616 --> 00:41:14,258 anybody would deny them. Literally one of them is made out of paddles. Come on. And while 431 00:41:14,338 --> 00:41:17,899 Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are taking care of them, Dorothy is going to be like, oh, no, 432 00:41:17,959 --> 00:41:24,460 my friends. And that is when Moon Girls, she's going to pull out a can of soda that she shakes 433 00:41:24,621 --> 00:41:30,242 and then hurls over to Dorothy like a grenade and the can. is gonna explode and just drench 434 00:41:30,282 --> 00:41:36,264 Dorothy in this sticky adhesive that Moon Girl invented. Okay, the can, it's gonna explode 435 00:41:36,344 --> 00:41:41,745 way before it reaches Dorothy because Cowboy Doll Bookface is gonna shoot it right out of 436 00:41:41,785 --> 00:41:46,907 the sky when it's right over Devil Dinosaur, just drenching him in the adhesive instead. 437 00:41:47,427 --> 00:41:52,488 So Devil is stuck to the ground and Cowboy is just gonna keep shooting at Moon Girl. All 438 00:41:52,508 --> 00:41:58,910 right, well, Moon Girl is gonna dive behind Devil Dinosaur. and use him as cover since 439 00:41:59,470 --> 00:42:05,212 she knows that he's bulletproof. And then to get him free of the adhesive, she's gonna pour 440 00:42:05,232 --> 00:42:10,914 a soda can of anti-adhesive on him and then hop on Devil's back as he gets up and just 441 00:42:10,934 --> 00:42:18,456 straight up charges cowboy doll face and whips his tail right through him, book face. Whatever. 442 00:42:18,596 --> 00:42:23,897 But his tail whip is gonna cause the cowboy to explode into a thousand doll parts. So he's 443 00:42:23,937 --> 00:42:28,883 gone. And without missing a beat, like after that tail whip, Moon Girl is going to spring 444 00:42:28,963 --> 00:42:34,446 off of Devil Dinosaur's back and she's going to shoot a taser plunger at Dorothy that sticks 445 00:42:34,486 --> 00:42:39,188 to Dorothy's head and it's going to send like 10,000 volts of electricity through her brain, 446 00:42:39,448 --> 00:42:45,491 just shutting it down. Well, OK, Dorothy's knocked out, but she doesn't need to be conscious for 447 00:42:45,511 --> 00:42:51,533 her imaginary friends to manifest or protect her. You know, so as Moon Girl is about to 448 00:42:51,633 --> 00:42:58,514 land. She lands on Honey Pie, which is a beehive with tree branches for limbs and a honey pot 449 00:42:58,534 --> 00:43:04,879 for a head. So Honey Pie has Moon Girl in this bear hug, essentially, and Moon Girl's being 450 00:43:04,979 --> 00:43:11,584 squeezed and stung as she's pressed up against this pissed off beehive. And meanwhile, Spinner, 451 00:43:11,844 --> 00:43:17,788 the adult version of Dorothy, is going to appear and manifest Devil Dinosaur's greatest fear, 452 00:43:18,269 --> 00:43:24,927 which is... I don't know, an army of the killer folk tribesmen who are all gonna rush and attack 453 00:43:24,967 --> 00:43:30,869 Devil Dinosaur. I mean, Devil Dinosaur eats killer folk for breakfast, alright? So he's 454 00:43:30,889 --> 00:43:37,350 gonna tear through them to rescue Moon Girl from this beehive guy. Honey pie. Yeah, yeah, 455 00:43:37,390 --> 00:43:42,672 he's gonna grab honey pie in his T-Rex claws and just freaking body slam that thing causing 456 00:43:42,712 --> 00:43:48,473 it to drop Moon Girl who's gonna helicopter away to safety. And as she's flying away... 457 00:43:48,854 --> 00:43:54,378 She's gonna pull out of her backpack a version of Professor X's Cerebro device that in the 458 00:43:54,398 --> 00:44:00,704 comics she once calibrated to detect magic beings. So she's gonna be recalibrating it again. Where 459 00:44:00,744 --> 00:44:06,108 is she pulling this stuff out from? Her backpack? Okay. Well, I mean, Spinner is still around. 460 00:44:06,288 --> 00:44:12,934 So she's gonna appear into Moon Girl's mind and manifest Moon Girl's greatest fear, which 461 00:44:12,994 --> 00:44:18,562 is, I don't know, what's Moon Girl's greatest fear? Uh, I- I don't know, an F on a test or 462 00:44:18,582 --> 00:44:27,708 something? Big whoop. Uh, Moon Girl wearing the recalibrated cerebro is gonna deduce that 463 00:44:27,828 --> 00:44:34,552 Dorothy's friends are psychic manifestations. So she's gonna pull out a bullhorn that emanates 464 00:44:34,632 --> 00:44:41,636 a frequency that disrupts psychic energies and Moon Girl's gonna use this invention to just 465 00:44:41,756 --> 00:44:49,141 dissipate Spinner. Okay, all right, so. Dorothy is going to wake up to see Spinner dissipate, 466 00:44:49,821 --> 00:44:55,446 and all of a sudden she hears the Candlemaker whispering in her mind, asking her to make 467 00:44:55,466 --> 00:45:00,610 a wish. And she's going to wish that this match was over. And that's what's going to happen. 468 00:45:01,050 --> 00:45:08,516 Devil Dinosaur, he'll eat Moon Girl, and he himself is going to burst into eldritch flames 469 00:45:08,717 --> 00:45:14,181 that just melt his bodily tissue like Raiders of the Lost Ark style, just leaving this dinosaur 470 00:45:14,221 --> 00:45:19,032 skeleton. match over. What? I don't get it. Was Devil Dinosaur possessed or something? 471 00:45:19,252 --> 00:45:23,314 I don't I don't even know what happened there. No, like he was more like driven insane by 472 00:45:23,354 --> 00:45:29,798 the Candlemaker. And it caused him to eat Moon Girl. Yep. I say that like even before Dorothy 473 00:45:30,318 --> 00:45:35,261 hears the Candlemaker like whispering in her ear and then, you know, she makes the wish 474 00:45:35,301 --> 00:45:40,684 and all that weirdness happens. That would take a while. So before that, Devil Dinosaur just 475 00:45:40,704 --> 00:45:47,114 straight up stomps Dorothy with his big old dinosaur foot. planning and then he's gonna 476 00:45:47,134 --> 00:45:52,556 let out a big victory roar like the T-Rex did at the end of the Jurassic Park movie. I don't 477 00:45:52,656 --> 00:45:59,678 think that hearing make a wish and then making a wish would take all that long. I mean it's 478 00:45:59,718 --> 00:46:03,999 not quicker than a foot dropping on you so I don't know. But we could go ahead and leave 479 00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:09,341 the match there either Dorothy makes her wish and the candle maker causes moon girl and devil 480 00:46:09,361 --> 00:46:14,919 dinosaur to destroy themselves or Dorothy doesn't have a chance to make the wish because she's 481 00:46:14,959 --> 00:46:19,022 a pancake. Let's go ahead and find out which of these scenarios happens by inputting the 482 00:46:19,042 --> 00:46:23,445 stats for these characters and running 1000 simulations. We'll be right back with the winner. 483 00:46:23,966 --> 00:46:32,232 8G9K, hit it! Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. I 484 00:46:32,272 --> 00:46:35,734 hate to see these two characters go up against each other. It would have been more fun, I 485 00:46:35,754 --> 00:46:40,057 think, to do a speculation where they become best friends and hang out together, you know, 486 00:46:40,197 --> 00:46:44,315 right? It was kind of interesting just coming up with the stats. We kind of realized that 487 00:46:44,415 --> 00:46:49,138 both of these characters' powers are essentially the power of imagination. Like they're highly, 488 00:46:49,178 --> 00:46:54,881 highly versatile. Right, because Moon Girl can basically engineer anything she imagines, and 489 00:46:55,241 --> 00:47:00,464 Dorothy Spinner can manifest it. So that was pretty cool. We treated this matchup like a 490 00:47:00,564 --> 00:47:05,147 two versus two character matchup, like a mini team duel, which we've done before in episodes 491 00:47:05,187 --> 00:47:10,509 like Cloak and Dagger versus the Wonder Twins, or North Star and Aurora versus Hawk and Dove. 492 00:47:10,922 --> 00:47:14,623 Yeah, or like Daughters of the Demon versus Daughters of the Dragon. Yeah, we've done a 493 00:47:14,663 --> 00:47:21,385 few 2v2 matches before. In this case, we counted the individual stats for Moon Girl and Devil 494 00:47:21,405 --> 00:47:29,307 Dinosaur, as well as Dorothy Spinner on her own, and kind of an amalgamation of her imaginary 495 00:47:29,367 --> 00:47:35,349 friends, wherein we averaged the stats of all of her imaginary friends, and treated it as 496 00:47:35,369 --> 00:47:40,186 kind of like this composite being. Yeah, which was not easy. No, it was pretty difficult to 497 00:47:40,226 --> 00:47:44,287 come up with that average for the imaginary friends, but in the end we ended up getting 498 00:47:44,547 --> 00:47:50,189 win rates for each one of the characters. Dorothy Spinner was by far the weakest. Yes, Dorothy 499 00:47:50,209 --> 00:47:55,910 Spinner is hands down the weakest character I've ever done a duel with. I felt bad for 500 00:47:55,930 --> 00:48:02,092 her as I was entering these stats in. But, her imaginary friend creatures were actually really 501 00:48:02,132 --> 00:48:07,082 powerful, more powerful than either Moon Girl or Devil Dinosaur on their own. And- kind of 502 00:48:07,102 --> 00:48:11,703 wiped the floor with both of them individually, winning three quarters of all of its matches. 503 00:48:12,223 --> 00:48:16,404 And what was really interesting was that Moon Girl actually had better stats than Devil Dinosaur. 504 00:48:16,584 --> 00:48:21,566 Right. Just due to her heightened intelligence and versatility with all the inventions and 505 00:48:21,606 --> 00:48:26,947 stuff like that. Devil Dinosaur is strong and can do damage, but otherwise, you know, he's 506 00:48:27,007 --> 00:48:32,449 not that impressive statistically, considering he's kind of a one trick pony and not that 507 00:48:32,469 --> 00:48:38,435 bright. He's a dinosaur. It's kind of interesting because a lot of Dorothy's imaginary friends 508 00:48:38,455 --> 00:48:43,437 were also one trick ponies. But then you have someone like the candle maker, who isn't technically 509 00:48:43,477 --> 00:48:48,059 an imaginary friend, but we still kind of counted him in the composite considering the fact that 510 00:48:48,139 --> 00:48:53,681 he was a manifestation from Dorothy's mind. And the guy could almost do anything. You can 511 00:48:53,701 --> 00:48:59,224 make wishes come true, essentially. Yeah, he definitely skewed that average. But was it 512 00:48:59,264 --> 00:49:04,899 enough? What do you think, Joseph? I think there's an interesting balance here. between how weak 513 00:49:04,939 --> 00:49:10,324 Dorothy is, but how strong her imaginary friends are. And then Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 514 00:49:10,584 --> 00:49:15,489 are somewhere in between that power spectrum. So I think the matchup is gonna be close. I 515 00:49:15,569 --> 00:49:19,973 do think that the scales are ultimately gonna tip toward Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur though. 516 00:49:20,413 --> 00:49:26,559 So we did a poll on Instagram and 64% of those who voted, voted in favor of Moon Girl and 517 00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:31,562 Devil Dinosaur. Do you think it's gonna be over or under that? I think it's going to be under 518 00:49:31,582 --> 00:49:35,343 that. I think it's going to be a closer match. But that was definitely a popularity contest 519 00:49:35,383 --> 00:49:39,444 poll. We even had some people ask us like, who the heck is Dorothy Spinner? To which case 520 00:49:39,464 --> 00:49:44,646 it got to say read and or watch Doom Patrol because it's awesome. You have to watch Doom 521 00:49:44,666 --> 00:49:50,587 Patrol on Max. It's a great show. And its final season is wrapping up here soon. But let's 522 00:49:50,607 --> 00:49:57,289 find out who won. AJ 9K, the results, please. Hey, you are, sir. The winner of the matchup 523 00:49:57,569 --> 00:50:04,938 between Dorothy Spinner. and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Hell 524 00:50:04,958 --> 00:50:09,861 yeah. I was hoping she'd win that coming. I was hoping she'd win this one. It was close. 525 00:50:10,382 --> 00:50:18,888 Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur won 57.1% of the matches or 571 out of 1000 compared to Dorothy 526 00:50:18,948 --> 00:50:25,212 Spinner and her imaginary friend who only won 42.9. So that was pretty close. If you had 527 00:50:25,333 --> 00:50:29,658 asked me leading into this. Whether or not I thought Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur even stood 528 00:50:29,678 --> 00:50:36,080 a chance against Dorothy Spinner, I would have said you're out of your mind. Well, it's really 529 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:42,262 all about Moon Girl's intelligence, right? Considering that she is likely the most intelligent person 530 00:50:42,342 --> 00:50:46,603 in the Marvel universe, she has a lot going for her. Probably more than you ever realized. 531 00:50:46,703 --> 00:50:50,724 Way more than Dorothy Spinner, I think. It's not down to the intelligence. You know what 532 00:50:50,764 --> 00:50:57,166 it's down to? What? The fucking system, man. The fucking system. What? Yeah, it's like there's 533 00:50:57,266 --> 00:51:02,188 no way that Dorothy Spinner would go into this match with only one imaginary friend, but it's 534 00:51:02,308 --> 00:51:08,270 way too complicated to pit two characters up against like 20. Well, that's why we had the 535 00:51:08,310 --> 00:51:12,892 composite imaginary friend. It's not good enough. It's not good enough. The system's broken. 536 00:51:13,532 --> 00:51:18,394 I think it sounds pretty accurate myself. But, you know, any time Marvel wins. It always sounds 537 00:51:18,434 --> 00:51:22,776 highly accurate to me. It does make me wonder though, how we're gonna run the stats for next 538 00:51:22,816 --> 00:51:28,379 week's team duel between Doom Patrol and Guardians of the Galaxy if we count Dorothy Spinner as 539 00:51:28,439 --> 00:51:34,162 multiple beings. I don't know if we can actually. We might have to do a composite of her as well 540 00:51:34,222 --> 00:51:37,804 with the imaginary friend. That'll be interesting. That will be interesting. We'll have to figure 541 00:51:37,824 --> 00:51:44,128 that out. Considering those seven versus seven, matrices simulations take a long time to run. 542 00:51:44,708 --> 00:51:50,479 Yeah, ton of time. Even two versus two takes a while. Yeah. I hope you feel bad. I hope 543 00:51:50,499 --> 00:51:55,462 you feel bad for Dorothy Spinner. She's had a hard life and you don't make it any easier. 544 00:51:56,702 --> 00:52:01,905 Well, geez, I do feel bad for her as a character, but also, you know, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 545 00:52:01,945 --> 00:52:07,648 deserve this win. So there you go. All right. I guess if you can live with that guilt that 546 00:52:07,688 --> 00:52:11,330 does it for this duel. Let us know what you thought about the results by writing to us 547 00:52:11,371 --> 00:52:17,926 at dynamic duel podcast at gmail.com or by visiting us on Instagram or X. You can find links to 548 00:52:18,046 --> 00:52:22,907 all of our accounts by checking out our show notes or visiting our website at dynamicduel.com. 549 00:52:24,107 --> 00:52:27,849 And on our site you can also find a link to our Patreon page where you can join our Dynamic 550 00:52:27,889 --> 00:52:32,750 2.0 tier and chat with us and fellow listeners. Our Fantastic Four tier, which gets you bonus 551 00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:37,151 content each month. Our X-Force tier that makes you an executive producer of this podcast. 552 00:52:37,511 --> 00:52:42,233 Or our newest tier that lets you join our Dynamike Podcast Network. If you can't join Patreon, 553 00:52:42,273 --> 00:52:47,262 you can still support our show by signing up for our e-newsletter. also at dynamic duel 554 00:52:47,302 --> 00:52:53,604 dot com. Or you can also rate the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, or on our website. 555 00:52:54,064 --> 00:53:00,526 As we mentioned earlier, our next episode is going to be episode 350, a big team duel between 556 00:53:00,546 --> 00:53:06,547 the Doom Patrol and the Guardians of the Galaxy. Can I wait for that? Doom Patrol is going down 557 00:53:06,607 --> 00:53:12,629 and it is gonna be very satisfying. I just imagine it's going to be like the most bizarre team 558 00:53:12,669 --> 00:53:17,319 duel that we've ever had. I guarantee it. For sure, for sure. But that does it for this episode, 559 00:53:17,339 --> 00:53:21,963 we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers Ken Johnson, John Strausky, Zachary 560 00:53:21,983 --> 00:53:26,827 Hepburn, Dustin Balcombe, Mickey Mathen-Geehan, Brandon Estregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, 561 00:53:26,987 --> 00:53:33,152 Nick Abonto, Austin Wyslowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, and Adam Spies for helping make 562 00:53:33,172 --> 00:53:38,616 this podcast possible. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. 563 00:53:39,217 --> 00:53:43,821 This episode was sponsored by the card game, Chronicle AI. Get it at chronicleaigame.com.