This is a Dynamike Network podcast.
Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate
the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations.
I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are doing a duel
between the characters Dorothy Spinner from The Doom Patrol and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur.
This is the final duel in lead up to our big team duel next episode. where we're gonna pit
the teams of Doom Patrol and Guardians of the Galaxy against each other. Yeah, Dorothy Spinner
and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are both little girl superheroes with big monsters as backup,
basically. It'll be a lot of fun to break down these characters. Moon Girl has a fantastic
backstory that I was really glad to dive into, so can't wait to talk all about her and figure
out who the heck's gonna win this matchup later on this episode. Before that, we're gonna break
down the comic book movie news to come out in the past week. of which there isn't much due
to the ongoing strikes. There was like a 45 second Loki season 2 teaser, so we're going
to talk about that. Yeah and this episode is actually sponsored by the Chronicle AI card
game that Jonathan and I invented. That's right, we are sponsoring our own episode because we
can. it's our podcast. So we're going to talk a little bit about the card game that Jonathan
and I made. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to
check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. As our listeners
may know, our duel simulator is so advanced that it's gained sentience and has named itself
the artificial life form for running extensive duels, just a rather very intelligent simulator
9000, or Alfred Jarvis 9000. Here's a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why
hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of
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you that and more with two bonus episodes each month, including bloopers and top ten shows
where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel and DC subjects. The X-Force tier makes
you an executive producer of Dynamic Duel, where every month you help the host choose what to
review and who to fight against each other. And finally, the Dynamite Podcast Network tier
allows aspiring podcasters to create their own battle-focused show using this Monte Carlo
simulator.
graphic support and consultation and get you simulation results to announce on your show.
Pitch the twins your show via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by reaching out to them on
social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic duel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks, J9K,
and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Be sure to tune into the Max Destruction podcast
this Wednesday, where Ken and Dustin find out who'd win in a fight between John Matrix from
the Commando Movie. versus Robocop.
A No Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize,
is a digital award we post on Instagram and in our email newsletter for the person that
we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. We got a lot of great answers
this time. I think a total of eight people called in. Unfortunately, we can only pick four answers
and there were only really four answers to give because the question last week was... What
was your favorite Marvel or DC cartoon from the 90s and why? I think the answers will be
pretty obvious, but it'll be interesting to see which one comes out on top. Our first honorable
mention goes to Dustin Balcom, who said, Hey, dynamic duelist Dustin Balcom here and I am
jumping in right away to get my answer because I'm not going to let these DC robots come out
and just say Batman the animated series because it is good, but my gosh grow personality. The
real answer is the 90s Spider-Man cartoon because it was just perfection. And that's all I got
to say. That's right, Jonathan. Anyone who thinks that Batman the Animated Series was the best
cartoon of the 90s basically has no personality, according to Dustin. And he's right. The best
cartoon is actually Spider-Man, which was a fantastic adaptation of the comic books. It
introduced kids to a whole bunch of other Marvel superheroes. There were a lot of crossovers
in that show. Killer opening theme song. and the show gave us the first example of the Spider-Verse.
I dunno, sounds kinda boring to me. What? Yeah. I mean, big whoop. You know you watched that
shit. I did, it was good I guess. Travis Herndon and Lizzie Dyer Arnie also gave the answer
of the 90's Spider-Man cartoon. But Colby Hentges gave this answer. Hey boys, Colby Hentges.
I know these are usually opinion questions and there's no right or wrong answer, but this
week is different. If you don't pick Batman, the animated series, you're wrong. It's still
some of the best telling of some of Batman's best stories. Kevin Conroy is Batman. Mark
Hamill is Joker. It's the best. B-Taz or bust. Now, Joseph, I've got to ask you, would you
rather be boring or wrong? Uh, I'd rather be wrong, I guess. That's fine. You rag about
everything, so it makes sense. I love how passionate this week's answers are for this question.
How the DC guys have no personality and how the Marvel guys are just wrong. But they are
because the Batman animated series is so good with the music, with the voice work, even with
the character adaptations. And so influential in terms of what came after it for DC. You
mean like the Superman show, Justice League? Exactly. And even beyond that with the DC animated
movie universe films. Yeah, the legacy of the show is pretty lasting, I'll admit that. We
want to give a shout out to Ezra Garcia who also gave the answer of Batman the Animated
series. Our final honorable mention goes to Scott Camacho who said, Johnny please do not
change the color of my name. But when it comes to this category, I'm going to have to side
with Marvel, mainly the X-Men series.
banger of a soundtrack you cannot get any more than the X-Men. Come on! That's right! Even
a DC fan can admit that the X-Men animated series in the 90s was the best cartoon at that time.
Scotty mentioned the opening theme, which is still the best theme in all of cartoons. His
brother, Gilly Macho, also gave the same answer and made great points that... The show pretty
much defined the 90s as far as superheroes go and it was highly influential in getting the
X-Men movie made which in turn probably helped kickstart the MCU. So you know the influence
of the Batman animated series is one thing but I think the influence of the X-Men animated
series was even greater and you know it's coming back on Disney Plus next year. I don't see
Batman the animated series coming back. Well they're trying to do it with Batman Kid Crusader.
I don't know what that is. It's Bruce Timm's new Batman cartoon. Come on, keep up. Why would
I keep up with that? It's DC. Because DC's better. Not according to Scotty. You know, I'm gonna
have to change him to Team Red on the Discord from Team Blue. Scotty, let's strike one. Strike
one, my friend. Thanks to everyone for sending in your answer, but the winner of this week's
No Prize is Brandon Estegard. Who said? I barely make the cut off of a 90s skit. I'm also going
with a show that barely makes a cut and that's Batman Beyond. I don't think there's a wrong
answer to this question, but what's that's Batman above the rest? is that it doesn't have to
rely on storylines from the comics and can still establish amazing episodes. It was a fresh
and creative take on Batman with the updated style from the OG animated series. Yes, Spider-Man,
Batman the animated series, the X-Men animated series were all great, but when you think of
Batman Beyond, it was almost like an amalgamation of everything that made those other shows.
phenomenal. I guess you could say that because you know, it had the cool animation style from
Batman the Animated Series as Brandon mentioned, but it also had, you know, the killer soundtrack
like the Marvel cartoons did and more mature plots and adult themes and things like that,
you know? Yeah, absolutely. That was a DC cartoon that I think even Marvel fans have to admit
was insanely cool. It was almost like the Marvel version of Batman, right? The fuck? Yeah, I'm
just gonna put that out there. Well, I'm not agreeing with that. Now, for as good as Batman
Beyond was, I think X-Men actually was the clear winner for this question. However, Brandon
was the only person to give the answer of Batman Beyond, and he got points for originality with
this one, since we don't usually like to let people share No Prizes, you know? Right. Congrats,
Brandon! You win this week's No Prize. If you, the listener, want a shot at winning your own
No Prize, stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another Question of the
Week. And now that that's done... Onto the news!
Alright, there's not much news this past week when it comes from Marvel and DC, but we did
get a teaser of sorts for the upcoming Loki Season 2 on Disney+, which is strange because
we already got a full-on trailer for the show, so it's kind of weird to get a 45 second teaser
after the trailer. Usually that's flipped around. But we did get some pretty interesting new
shots of what's going down in Loki season 2 starting October 6. Like we said with the trailer,
this all looks phenomenal. The cinematography and the visual effects are movie level. In
some cases, it looks even better than how the movie looks, especially when it comes to the
set design and stuff. The teaser basically introduces the concept that Loki is being pulled through
space and time involuntarily. He meets up with Sylvie, who... appears is hiding out in like
McDonald's in the 1970s after the events of season one where she Killed he who remains
and kickstarted the multiverse She still has the really bad haircut But Loki and Sylvie
joined forces here going up against Victor Timely who we get some new shots of Jonathan Majors
playing the character we also see Rhona Renslayer from season one who in the comics is King of
the conquerors romantic interest She appears to be in Victor Timely's timeline, and she's
holding this futuristic laser gun type device. Yeah, it makes me wonder whose side she's on.
Like, is she gonna try and stop Kang, or is she gonna try and stop Loki? That's a great
question. My inclination is that she's on Kang's side, and she's probably his only ally, especially
since she was such a firm believer in the TVA and its mission, even after she realized that
the leaders of the TVA were just lifeless automatons. True, yeah, true. I mean, for a teaser, it
definitely teases. I don't know if I mentioned this in our review of the latest trailer that
came out, but Loki was my favorite thing to come out of the post-Endgame era of the Marvel
universe, next to Shang-Chi. So I'm really looking forward to this, really intrigued by the marketing
that they're putting out for it, even if it's just a 45-second teaser. Yeah, I'm also super
excited. We have less than a month before this show comes out, and perhaps we'll get another
full-length trailer before that time, but we'll see. That does it for the news for this episode.
Jonathan and I want to briefly remind listeners that we created a card game for all you card
gamers and tabletop gamers out there and board gamers. Jonathan and I have a deck building
card game that we developed over the span of 10 years or so and we've been told that it's
really fun and we played it and we think it's really fun. So if you guys are into that kind
of stuff at all, visit ChronicleAIGame.com which we will link in the show notes, and check out
the card game. Jonathan and I put a lot of work into it and would appreciate any and all support
you guys can give in that capacity. We do have a Marvel versus DC version of this card game
exclusive to patrons. So whether or not you get the Chronicle AI version of the game, which
is robot themed, or the Marvel versus DC version of the game, which we called Infinity Crisis,
let us know if you pick it up and what you think about it. We'd love for you to play it. We
think it's great, and we think you'll think the same. But speaking of card games, that
brings us to our question of the week.
To all the gamers out there, what is your favorite non-video game, for Marvel or DC, and why?
You know, such as board games, card games, tabletop games, anything physical like that you've played.
Yeah, Jonathan and I are big fans of board games and stuff like that, so largely this question
is to help inform me, I think, about some of the things that are out there that I may not
know about that I would love to check out. So record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking
on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. which will prompt
you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long and don't forget to
leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and
award that person a Dynamic Dual Note Prize that we'll post to Instagram and our email
newsletter. Be sure to answer before September 16th.
That does it for the news portion of this episode. Now let's move on to the main event, where
we find out who's going to win in a match between the Doom Patrol's Dorothy Spinner against Moon
Girl and Devil Dinosaur.
Okay, Dorothy Spinner against Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Of course, you'll be familiar
with Dorothy Spinner if you've seen any of the HBO Max Doom Patrol series, or I guess it's
just Max now. Phenomenal series. If you haven't watched it, I definitely recommend it, especially
season two, the season that Dorothy Spinner is featured in. Yeah, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur
actually have their own show too on the Disney Kids channel and on Disney Plus, which is actually
incredible for a character that just came out. in 2016. I think to go from non-existence when
this podcast started to having a full-on show of their own is a real testament to how cool
the characters of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are. I highly recommend the cartoon. It is
for kids, but it is highly inspired visually by the Spider-Verse films. It's not 3D animated,
it's 2D, but there's a lot of cool stuff in there that's very comic book-y. That's cool.
Is it Moon Girl or Devil Dinosaur or both that were created in 2016? Well, Devil Dinosaur
dates back to the 1960s as a creation of Jack Kirby. Oh wow. Moon Girl was created much more
recently, and I go into that a little bit in my history. In addition to the shows, you know,
also check out the comics. The Doom Patrol comics are very highly recommended, especially the
run by Grant Morrison. And I have to say, in my research for this episode, I had a whole
lot of fun going back reading the first two arcs for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Nice.
Well, let's get into it. To explain the methodology behind our duels. Let's go to our sentient
dual simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ9K, tell our listeners how you go about determining
a winner in our dual matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the
contestants is by running 1,000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics.
A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random
sampling. In this case, I randomized the statistics along a normal distribution. as a way to simulate
the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official
Marvel power grid from which the DC characters' statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat
categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order
to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide
a percentage of wins for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared
the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing,
neither character should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's
even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line
with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations
are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes
tabulated for determination of the winner. Thanks, AG9K! Before we run the simulations though,
we like to break down each character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario
on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out B for B. And I believe it's
my turn to go first with the DC characters backstory, so let me tell you all about Dorothy Spinner.
Her backstory is a little bit of a downer, but here it is. Now, Dorothy Spinner was born with
an ape-like facial disfiguration and hairy limbs. resulting in her birth mother giving her up
for adoption while Dorothy was still an infant. Adopted by the Spinner family, Dorothy was
raised as an only child on a farm in rural Kansas. With many in the community repulsed by Dorothy's
appearance and due to excessive bullying from other children, the Spinners isolated Dorothy
on their farm, which occupied much of the Spinner's time. As a result of her loneliness and isolation,
Dorothy developed imaginary friends, which she was unknowingly able to bring to life due to
her psychic mind. Her friends taught her to read and write and told her stories, such as
The Wizard of Oz, which Dorothy enjoyed. One day, while picking flowers outside, Dorothy
was accosted by a young boy named Bernard Muller and his two friends, who all teased and attacked
her. When Dorothy made her way back to her barn to find that Bernard had hung her cat, she
wished that Bernard was dead. It was at this point that the Candlemaker emerged from her
mind, a being capable of granting wishes. After making the wish to the Candlemaker, Bernard
was found in a field the next morning by his friends, crucified and disemboweled. At the
funeral, Dorothy vowed to never make another wish from the Candlemaker again and buried
him deep in her mind. At age 11, Dorothy began being frightened by the stories that her imaginary
friends were telling her. from the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Andersen. When three
imaginary family members tried to get Dorothy to wear red shoes, they reminded Dorothy of
a fairy tale about a girl who couldn't stop dancing until her legs were chopped off. Dorothy
told them that she had something to show them behind the barn, at which point Dorothy shot
and killed them with an imaginary gun. A few years later, a battle between a team of superhero
outcasts known as the Doom Patrol and the Lord of Chaos named Pythia. spilled onto the Spinner
farm. Home alone, Dorothy got swept up into the battle and helped the superhero team defeat
Pytheia when the others seemingly died in the pandemonium. Dorothy was made an honorary member
of the Doom Patrol and was shocked when they called her their friend. After realizing that
their daughter had psychic powers, the Spinners called Dr. Niles Calder, aka the Chief, who
you can learn more about in our Chief vs. Professor X dual episode. The Chief agreed to help care
for Dorothy and brought her to the Doom Patrol's new headquarters, the Secret Sanctuary in Happy
Harbor, Rhode Island, a former base of the Justice League, which contained a vault of souvenirs
from past Justice League battles. One of those souvenirs was the Materiopticon, formerly wielded
by the villain Dr. Destiny and Dream of the Endless before him, the latter of whom you
can learn more about in our Sandman Due to the Materiopticon's ability to turn dreams into
reality, Dorothy's imaginary family Damal, Darling Come Home, and Flying Robert came back to life
and attacked Dorothy for killing them, still trying to get her to wear the red shoes. Realizing
the red shoes symbolized Dorothy's fear of menstruation, the Doom Patrol's resident health and psychiatric
aide Joshua Clay destroyed the machine powering the Materiopticon, which robbed the imaginary
beings of much of their strength. Before they vanished, Dorothy accepted the red shoes and
her own womanhood, realizing the shoes were ruby slippers after all, and that she was at
home with the Doom Patrol. When the team relocated their headquarters onto Danny the Street, who
you can learn more about in our Danny the Street vs. Kerkoa episode, Dorothy and new Doom Patrol
member Flexmantello were kidnapped by an organization known as the Men from Nowhere, who imprisoned
them in the sub-sub basement of the Pentagon. known as the Ant Farm, in order to harness
their psychic power to summon an all-powerful entity known as the Telephone Avatar. Although
Flex Mantello managed to weaken the Telephone Avatar by flexing a muscle that turned the
Pentagon into a circle, Flex and Dorothy would have been killed were it not for Dorothy wishing
for the Candlemaker to save her and her friends before passing out. When she awoke, she saw
the Telephone Avatar hanging from the ceiling. With the Candlemaker constantly intruding into
Dorothy's thoughts afterward, asking her for wishes, Dorothy confessed to Joshua what the
Candlemaker had done before she collapsed from mental exhaustion. When Joshua went to the
Chief for help, the Chief shot and killed Joshua for interrupting him. When Dorothy came to
and found Joshua dead, the Candlemaker emerged and asked Dorothy if she wished that Joshua
were alive. When she said that she did, The Candlemaker resurrected Joshua, only to kill
him immediately afterward, to Dorothy's horror. Having gained enough power from Dorothy's wishes
to emerge into the world fully formed, the Candlemaker decapitated the Chief and destroyed Robotman's
human brain before attacking the world's soul in New York City, causing people to go insane.
After learning that the Candlemaker was really an ancient malevolent entity that used Dorothy's
The Doom Patrol eventually defeated Candlemaker, with Dorothy delivering the killing blow by
blowing out the Candlemaker's final flame. The Doom Patrol disbanded afterward, forcing Dorothy
to enter the real world and get an apartment. Having to deal with continual harassment from
onlookers whenever she had to leave the house, Dorothy was also bombarded by African spirits
who kept asking her to join their world.
though she was encouraged by the scientist William Magnus, who you can learn more about in our
Metal Men vs. Colossus duel episode, to overcome her fear of the real world. After being attacked
by spirit-possessed mannequins at a shopping mall, Dorothy was saved by Robotman, who you
can learn more about in our Robotman vs. Think episode. The two of them helped reform the
Doom Patrol, though Dorothy found herself depressed due to her inexperience and frequent inability
to contribute to the team as much as she wanted. After befriending a magical doll named Charlie,
who she later learned was possessed by the spirit of a rabbi, Dorothy helped Charlie reform the
Holy Grail with the power of her imagination, and Charlie's spirit departed, his mission
completed. Alone again, Dorothy was taken on a camping trip by robot man and fellow Doom
Patrol member named Coagula to let her know that her adoptive father had died in a wheat
thrusher accident, and that they found her biological mother. who was going to meet them soon. Upon
realizing that she was being asked to leave the Doom Patrol in order to live a normal life
with her mom, Dorothy unleashed a psychic explosion in a fit of immense rejection that killed Quagula,
destroyed Robotman, and put herself into a coma. After a new Doom Patrol team formed, its version
of Robotman eventually realized that he was an imaginary version created by Dorothy in
her vegetative state. When the real, newly assembled Robotman realized what was going on, he visited
Dorothy in the hospital and made the traumatic decision to take her off of life support, and
Dorothy soon died. And she remains dead in post-Flashpoint continuity, though Robotman keeps a photo of
the two of them and visits her grave every week. Powers-wise, Dorothy is a powerful yet somewhat
unstable psychic, capable of bringing her imaginary friends to life. sometimes unwillingly. As
a young girl, many of her imaginary friends manifest as symbols of her emotions, often
fear, or as character interpretations from stories she's read or heard, and occasionally as recreations
of people she knows. This includes but is not limited to Pretty Miss Dot, who has lipsticks
for fingers that can shoot fire, Paddle the Sky, a swirling mass of hands holding paddles,
Heart of Ice, A woman made of ice that can freeze things Dark is the morning A shadow creature
with a giant fanged mouth Cowboy doll book face A gun-wielding cowboy made of dolls with a
book for a face And Spinner, a superhero adult version of Dorothy who's a member of the imagined
team the Doom Force and can manifest the nightmares of her opponents. That's Dorothy Spinner. That
was a lot darker than I thought it was going to be and very much a downer. It is like the
exact opposite of the Moon Girl Devil Dinosaur backstory, which is largely pretty fun and
cute. And yeah, not at all what Dorothy Spinner's story is. Yeah, it's probably like the most
depressing backstory of any DC character I've ever done a bio for in the span of this podcast.
So let's cheer up everyone with Moon Girl's backstory. Yeah, I'm glad I'm going second
here. Here's the backstory for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. In prehistoric times, in an
alternate dimension existed Dinosaur World, a planet where dinosaurs lived alongside the
Neanderthal tribes of early humans. Within a region of active volcanoes called the Valley
of Flame, the most aggressive hominid tribe called the Killer Folk dominated other, less
hostile tribes such as the Small Folk. When a group of Killer Folk came across a female
Tyrannosaurus rex-like dinosaur and her young, they attacked and killed the mother and two
of her children. They offered the third young dinosaur as a sacrifice to their volcano god
by burning it alive with the fire from their torches. The beast nearly died, but was rescued
by a boy from the Smallfolk tribe who witnessed the massacre. The Neanderthal child's name
was Moonboy, as he was the only member of his tribe who was brave enough to go out at night.
He saw that the flames had turned the dinosaur scales a fiery red, and the boy took care of
it, naming him Devil. Moonboy and Devil Dinosaur formed a close bond, and together they fought
and defeated the Killer Folk tribe, claiming the Valley of Flame for the small folk and
protecting the lands from other dinosaurs and monsters. Meanwhile, universes away, an autistic
9-year-old girl named Lunela Lafayette grew up on the lower east side of Manhattan. Brilliant.
but shy and mocked for her awkwardness, Lunela acquired the nickname Moon Girl due to her
constant daydreaming about strange gadgets and inventions. When the inhuman hero Black Bolt
released the Terrigan Mists into Earth's atmosphere during a battle with Thanos, Lunela believed
she could use her intelligence to help contain the gases. She and others were afraid that
Terrigan exposure would transform them and as the substance was used by the Inhuman race
as a catalyst to change them into their superpowered forms. Inhumans were descendants of a group
of early mankind that were experimented on by the alien race, the Kree, to serve as their
soldiers. Hundreds, if not thousands of people on Earth unknowingly had inhuman genetics and
were being altered due to the pterigen clouds now in the air. You can learn more about pterigenesis,
the Inhumans, and their king Black Bolt in the in our Shazam vs Black Bolt dual episode. Lunella
believed the solution to the Terranian clouds lay in alien Kree science, so she built a device
to help her locate any Kree technology on Earth in order to study it. This led her underneath
the Brooklyn Bridge where she found a Kree device called an Omni-Wave Projector that was capable
of opening portals between time and space. Meanwhile, universes away, Moon Boy happened upon another
Omni-Wave projector that had landed on Dinosaur World that was being worshipped by the Killer
Folk tribe, who called it their Night Stone. The Killer Folk caught Moon Boy with the device
and beat him to death, when suddenly both projectors activated simultaneously, opening a portal
between Earth and Dinosaur World. A group of Killer Folk entered the portal and began terrorizing
the people of present-day Manhattan, but they were followed by Devil Dinosaur, who sought
to avenge Moonboy's death. Devil Dinosaur saved Lunela from the Killer Folk, who had fled their
encounter, and she explained to the semi-intelligent beast that she needed his help to get the Omni-Wave
Projector from the Neanderthals in order to save humanity. Before they could act, however,
Devil Dinosaur was captured and imprisoned in a secret facility. Finding her courage, Lunela
resolved to rescue her friend and equipped a series of homemade gadgets and a suit, After
hacking into a government database to find the dinosaur's whereabouts, she snuck away from
home and broke into the secret facility, using her gadgets to break Devil from his high-tech
cage. Together, the duo tracked the Killer Folk to a Manhattan rooftop where they defeated
the Neanderthal group and recovered the Omni-Wave Projector. However, immediately after their
victory, the Terran Cloud descended upon Lunella, causing her to undergo teragenesis and encasing
her in a giant egg. Devil Dinosaur carried the egg containing Lunela to safety at her secret
lab underneath her elementary school. When she hatched, Lunela could not immediately tell
what the Terrigen had changed about her. However, later at school, she discovered that she would
involuntarily switch minds with Devil Dinosaur, who was back at the lab, whenever she experienced
strong emotions such as anger or hunger, and spontaneously during a full moon. Keeping her
crime fighting a secret from her parents as much as possible, Lunella was eventually discovered
by scientist Amadeus Cho, who administered a test developed by Bruce Banner called the Brain
Omnicompetence Examiner. It was determined that Lunella was probably the most intelligent mind
on Earth, scoring higher than other scientific minds such as Mr. Fantastic. The villain Dr.
Doom took offense to this news and attacked Lunella, but with help from the superhuman
community, including Dr. Strange, the X-Men, and Ironheart, She and Devil Dinosaur were
able to defeat the Doombot army. At one point, the inhuman hero Ms. Marvel recruited Lunella
and Devil Dinosaur to help in the war between the Inhumans and the X-Men, which was caused
by the toxic nature of the Terrigan mists to mutants. Lunella used her knowledge of Kree
technology to help the X-Men scientist Forge miniaturize a version of a machine he designed
that would compress the Terrigan gases into a solid state and incinerate it. You can learn
more about Forge in our Mr. Terrific vs. Forge dual episode. Later, Lunella received a distress
call from space and built a spacecraft so she and Devil Dinosaur could answer it. During
the adventure, her omni-wave projector malfunctioned and the pair ended up back in time on Dinosaur
World, Devil's home planet. There they found Moonboy at the time he discovered the omni-wave
projector and they were able to prevent him from being beaten by the Killer Folk. Knowing
that Devil was back home with his true owner, Lunella decided that leaving Kim with Moonboy
was the right thing to do. She said goodbye, and though Devil Dinosaur protested, she tearfully
told him she didn't want him anymore, and used the projector to travel back to Earth alone.
Sad and isolated, Lunella ended up joining the Thing, Human Torch, and the robot Herbie in
a new version of the Fantastic Four, as Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman were off with
their children recreating the multiverse. You can learn more about that in our Justice Society
vs. Fantastic Four dual episode. Eventually, Lunella used Herbie to open a dimensional portal
to bring Devil Dinosaur back to Earth to help in a fight against the Super Skrull, and the
two were reunited. Lunella admitted she was wrong for leaving Kim, Devil forgave her, and
the two went back to fighting crime on their own. This included helping Doctor Strange rescue
a boy kidnapped by the villain Nightmare, assisting Spider-Man against a Goblin foe, and solving
an unsolvable riddle for Thor that was posed by his brother Loki. The latter adventure revealing
that Devil was worthy of wielding Mjolnir and it transformed him into the Thunder Lizard.
On a family trip to the country of Wakanda, Lunela's parents discovered her secret alter
ego as Moon Girl. They banned her from continuing to fight crime with her dinosaur pet, though
they later compromised as long as Lunela visited with a therapist once a week. At that time,
she formed a support group for fellow newly powered adolescent inhumans called the Support
Alliance Derby for Sensationally Abled Kids, or SADSACS for short. And that's her backstory.
Powers-wise, Moon Girl has the inhuman power to temporarily swap her consciousness with
Devil Dinosaur, her crime-fighting partner. This process is triggered involuntarily, caused
by heightened emotional states and the Fool Moon. She has an exceptionally high intellect.
stated to likely be the smartest person on Earth, and has built a vast array of homemade gadgets
for her crime fighting activities. This includes, but is not limited to, spectrum scanning goggles,
spring-loaded boxing gloves, rocket-powered roller skates, a helicopter backpack, a plunger-tipped
taser gun, sneeze-powder grenades, a flashlight flashbang, and so many other toys in her utility
belt. She can invent nearly anything she puts her gifted mind to, physically through engineering,
or digitally through computer programming. Devil Dinosaur is a physically and mentally enhanced
Tyrannosaurus Rex-like dinosaur via genetic mutation awakened when he was set aflame as
a youngling. He has increased durability and strength, able to lift around 25 tons, and
his scaly hide is immune to heat and strong enough to be bulletproof. Devil Dinosaur's
fangs, claws, and his sense of smell are razor sharp, and he can track nearly anyone by their
scent. He has human level reasoning abilities and can fully understand moon girl's commands.
That's moon girl in devil dinosaur. Wait, so when devil dinosaur takes over moon girl's
body, is she just like this snarling creature who's like always hungry? Yeah, she looks quite
feral actually. It's kind of funny when it happens. Interesting. And her friends are aware of what's
going on or they aren't? No, she just gets further ostracized for being weird when she swaps minds
with devil dinosaur during school time. That's funny. That's cute. What a cute character.
Yeah. And she freaking lives at the end. Yeah, that's because Marvel is for little kids, bro.
OK. All right. DC is for the adults. Sad adults, but adults nonetheless. I mean, what adult
isn't sad?
So now that we got the characters' histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate
on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations,
not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how the fight could play out. Alfred Jarvis
9000, what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other
than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they
are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated.
For the speculation... contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript
environment that will have no bearing on the match itself as no environmental statistics
are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright
then let's get into it! Dorothy Spinner and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur meet on the battlefield.
Who goes first? Honestly this is kind of hard because I don't think either character would
attack the other really. Like they'd probably commiserate and want to be but that's too bad
because the purpose of the podcast is to see who would win in no holds barred action. So
we're gonna make these children fight, damn it. All right, I figured that once Dorothy
sees Devil Dinosaur, she's gonna freak out and probably summon Pretty Miss Dot, who's kind
of her go-to when she's in danger. So this weird entity wearing a helmet with lips. and curlers
and lipstick fingers flies toward Devil Dinosaur and begins blasting him with fire. Alright,
well that does nothing. Devil Dinosaur is immune to fire, so all this attack is gonna do is
just piss him off. So he's infuriated and he's gonna roar real loud and then he's just gonna
chomp down on Pretty Mistat with his razor sharp teeth. Meanwhile, Moon Girl is gonna roller
skate over to Dorothy and just knock her the hell out with a spring-loaded boxing glove.
Yeah, except that now Dorothy is emotionally traumatized by having seen Pretty Miss Dot
just die like that. So while Moon Girl was approaching Dorothy, she's going to conjure several more
entities. And we'll go with Paddle the Sky for Moon Girl and Heart of Ice for Devil Dinosaur,
since Fire didn't do anything to him. So not only does Moon Girl's boxing glove get knocked
out of the way, she also gets paddled numerous times by Paddle the Sky. And Devil Dinosaur
is now encased in ice. Remind, what do Paddle of the Sky and Heart of Ice look like? Paddle
of the Sky is literally a spinning vortex of hands holding wooden paddles. And Heart of
Ice is just a woman made of ice. Okay. Uh, not gonna lie, I don't think Moon Girl would be
well equipped for all this weirdness. But she's gonna evade the paddles by activating her spring-loaded
roller skates to launch herself into the air. And then she's going to switch on her helicopter
backpack. So she's flying through the air. And as this paddle creature is chasing her, Moon
Girl's going to pilot over toward Devil Dinosaur. And then she's going to quickly zip out of
the way so that paddle guy crashes into Devil Dinosaur, who's in the ice. And basically the
paddles are going to break Devil Dinosaur out of his ice casing. Yeah, right. So now that
Devil Dinosaur is free, He's just gonna tackle paddle the sky out of the sky and just eviscerate
it turning those paddles into Splinters I hope you choke on them And while that's happening
moon girl is gonna whip out a hairdryer That she outfitted as a flamethrower and she's just
gonna melt the ice lady to a puddle Dude keep killing Dorothy's imaginary friends. See what
happens. She's got some weird ass friends, you know Even you've got insoles for her. Wow.
She can't catch a break, can she? Dude, these friends are objectively weird. I don't think
anybody would deny them. Literally one of them is made out of paddles. Come on. And while
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are taking care of them, Dorothy is going to be like, oh, no,
my friends. And that is when Moon Girls, she's going to pull out a can of soda that she shakes
and then hurls over to Dorothy like a grenade and the can. is gonna explode and just drench
Dorothy in this sticky adhesive that Moon Girl invented. Okay, the can, it's gonna explode
way before it reaches Dorothy because Cowboy Doll Bookface is gonna shoot it right out of
the sky when it's right over Devil Dinosaur, just drenching him in the adhesive instead.
So Devil is stuck to the ground and Cowboy is just gonna keep shooting at Moon Girl. All
right, well, Moon Girl is gonna dive behind Devil Dinosaur. and use him as cover since
she knows that he's bulletproof. And then to get him free of the adhesive, she's gonna pour
a soda can of anti-adhesive on him and then hop on Devil's back as he gets up and just
straight up charges cowboy doll face and whips his tail right through him, book face. Whatever.
But his tail whip is gonna cause the cowboy to explode into a thousand doll parts. So he's
gone. And without missing a beat, like after that tail whip, Moon Girl is going to spring
off of Devil Dinosaur's back and she's going to shoot a taser plunger at Dorothy that sticks
to Dorothy's head and it's going to send like 10,000 volts of electricity through her brain,
just shutting it down. Well, OK, Dorothy's knocked out, but she doesn't need to be conscious for
her imaginary friends to manifest or protect her. You know, so as Moon Girl is about to
land. She lands on Honey Pie, which is a beehive with tree branches for limbs and a honey pot
for a head. So Honey Pie has Moon Girl in this bear hug, essentially, and Moon Girl's being
squeezed and stung as she's pressed up against this pissed off beehive. And meanwhile, Spinner,
the adult version of Dorothy, is going to appear and manifest Devil Dinosaur's greatest fear,
which is... I don't know, an army of the killer folk tribesmen who are all gonna rush and attack
Devil Dinosaur. I mean, Devil Dinosaur eats killer folk for breakfast, alright? So he's
gonna tear through them to rescue Moon Girl from this beehive guy. Honey pie. Yeah, yeah,
he's gonna grab honey pie in his T-Rex claws and just freaking body slam that thing causing
it to drop Moon Girl who's gonna helicopter away to safety. And as she's flying away...
She's gonna pull out of her backpack a version of Professor X's Cerebro device that in the
comics she once calibrated to detect magic beings. So she's gonna be recalibrating it again. Where
is she pulling this stuff out from? Her backpack? Okay. Well, I mean, Spinner is still around.
So she's gonna appear into Moon Girl's mind and manifest Moon Girl's greatest fear, which
is, I don't know, what's Moon Girl's greatest fear? Uh, I- I don't know, an F on a test or
something? Big whoop. Uh, Moon Girl wearing the recalibrated cerebro is gonna deduce that
Dorothy's friends are psychic manifestations. So she's gonna pull out a bullhorn that emanates
a frequency that disrupts psychic energies and Moon Girl's gonna use this invention to just
dissipate Spinner. Okay, all right, so. Dorothy is going to wake up to see Spinner dissipate,
and all of a sudden she hears the Candlemaker whispering in her mind, asking her to make
a wish. And she's going to wish that this match was over. And that's what's going to happen.
Devil Dinosaur, he'll eat Moon Girl, and he himself is going to burst into eldritch flames
that just melt his bodily tissue like Raiders of the Lost Ark style, just leaving this dinosaur
skeleton. match over. What? I don't get it. Was Devil Dinosaur possessed or something?
I don't I don't even know what happened there. No, like he was more like driven insane by
the Candlemaker. And it caused him to eat Moon Girl. Yep. I say that like even before Dorothy
hears the Candlemaker like whispering in her ear and then, you know, she makes the wish
and all that weirdness happens. That would take a while. So before that, Devil Dinosaur just
straight up stomps Dorothy with his big old dinosaur foot. planning and then he's gonna
let out a big victory roar like the T-Rex did at the end of the Jurassic Park movie. I don't
think that hearing make a wish and then making a wish would take all that long. I mean it's
not quicker than a foot dropping on you so I don't know. But we could go ahead and leave
the match there either Dorothy makes her wish and the candle maker causes moon girl and devil
dinosaur to destroy themselves or Dorothy doesn't have a chance to make the wish because she's
a pancake. Let's go ahead and find out which of these scenarios happens by inputting the
stats for these characters and running 1000 simulations. We'll be right back with the winner.
8G9K, hit it! Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. I
hate to see these two characters go up against each other. It would have been more fun, I
think, to do a speculation where they become best friends and hang out together, you know,
right? It was kind of interesting just coming up with the stats. We kind of realized that
both of these characters' powers are essentially the power of imagination. Like they're highly,
highly versatile. Right, because Moon Girl can basically engineer anything she imagines, and
Dorothy Spinner can manifest it. So that was pretty cool. We treated this matchup like a
two versus two character matchup, like a mini team duel, which we've done before in episodes
like Cloak and Dagger versus the Wonder Twins, or North Star and Aurora versus Hawk and Dove.
Yeah, or like Daughters of the Demon versus Daughters of the Dragon. Yeah, we've done a
few 2v2 matches before. In this case, we counted the individual stats for Moon Girl and Devil
Dinosaur, as well as Dorothy Spinner on her own, and kind of an amalgamation of her imaginary
friends, wherein we averaged the stats of all of her imaginary friends, and treated it as
kind of like this composite being. Yeah, which was not easy. No, it was pretty difficult to
come up with that average for the imaginary friends, but in the end we ended up getting
win rates for each one of the characters. Dorothy Spinner was by far the weakest. Yes, Dorothy
Spinner is hands down the weakest character I've ever done a duel with. I felt bad for
her as I was entering these stats in. But, her imaginary friend creatures were actually really
powerful, more powerful than either Moon Girl or Devil Dinosaur on their own. And- kind of
wiped the floor with both of them individually, winning three quarters of all of its matches.
And what was really interesting was that Moon Girl actually had better stats than Devil Dinosaur.
Right. Just due to her heightened intelligence and versatility with all the inventions and
stuff like that. Devil Dinosaur is strong and can do damage, but otherwise, you know, he's
not that impressive statistically, considering he's kind of a one trick pony and not that
bright. He's a dinosaur. It's kind of interesting because a lot of Dorothy's imaginary friends
were also one trick ponies. But then you have someone like the candle maker, who isn't technically
an imaginary friend, but we still kind of counted him in the composite considering the fact that
he was a manifestation from Dorothy's mind. And the guy could almost do anything. You can
make wishes come true, essentially. Yeah, he definitely skewed that average. But was it
enough? What do you think, Joseph? I think there's an interesting balance here. between how weak
Dorothy is, but how strong her imaginary friends are. And then Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur
are somewhere in between that power spectrum. So I think the matchup is gonna be close. I
do think that the scales are ultimately gonna tip toward Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur though.
So we did a poll on Instagram and 64% of those who voted, voted in favor of Moon Girl and
Devil Dinosaur. Do you think it's gonna be over or under that? I think it's going to be under
that. I think it's going to be a closer match. But that was definitely a popularity contest
poll. We even had some people ask us like, who the heck is Dorothy Spinner? To which case
it got to say read and or watch Doom Patrol because it's awesome. You have to watch Doom
Patrol on Max. It's a great show. And its final season is wrapping up here soon. But let's
find out who won. AJ 9K, the results, please. Hey, you are, sir. The winner of the matchup
between Dorothy Spinner. and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur is Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Hell
yeah. I was hoping she'd win that coming. I was hoping she'd win this one. It was close.
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur won 57.1% of the matches or 571 out of 1000 compared to Dorothy
Spinner and her imaginary friend who only won 42.9. So that was pretty close. If you had
asked me leading into this. Whether or not I thought Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur even stood
a chance against Dorothy Spinner, I would have said you're out of your mind. Well, it's really
all about Moon Girl's intelligence, right? Considering that she is likely the most intelligent person
in the Marvel universe, she has a lot going for her. Probably more than you ever realized.
Way more than Dorothy Spinner, I think. It's not down to the intelligence. You know what
it's down to? What? The fucking system, man. The fucking system. What? Yeah, it's like there's
no way that Dorothy Spinner would go into this match with only one imaginary friend, but it's
way too complicated to pit two characters up against like 20. Well, that's why we had the
composite imaginary friend. It's not good enough. It's not good enough. The system's broken.
I think it sounds pretty accurate myself. But, you know, any time Marvel wins. It always sounds
highly accurate to me. It does make me wonder though, how we're gonna run the stats for next
week's team duel between Doom Patrol and Guardians of the Galaxy if we count Dorothy Spinner as
multiple beings. I don't know if we can actually. We might have to do a composite of her as well
with the imaginary friend. That'll be interesting. That will be interesting. We'll have to figure
that out. Considering those seven versus seven, matrices simulations take a long time to run.
Yeah, ton of time. Even two versus two takes a while. Yeah. I hope you feel bad. I hope
you feel bad for Dorothy Spinner. She's had a hard life and you don't make it any easier.
Well, geez, I do feel bad for her as a character, but also, you know, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur
deserve this win. So there you go. All right. I guess if you can live with that guilt that
does it for this duel. Let us know what you thought about the results by writing to us
at dynamic duel podcast at gmail.com or by visiting us on Instagram or X. You can find links to
all of our accounts by checking out our show notes or visiting our website at dynamicduel.com.
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As we mentioned earlier, our next episode is going to be episode 350, a big team duel between
the Doom Patrol and the Guardians of the Galaxy. Can I wait for that? Doom Patrol is going down
and it is gonna be very satisfying. I just imagine it's going to be like the most bizarre team
duel that we've ever had. I guarantee it. For sure, for sure. But that does it for this episode,
we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers Ken Johnson, John Strausky, Zachary
Hepburn, Dustin Balcombe, Mickey Mathen-Geehan, Brandon Estregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton,
Nick Abonto, Austin Wyslowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, and Adam Spies for helping make
this podcast possible. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers.
This episode was sponsored by the card game, Chronicle AI. Get it at chronicleaigame.com.