1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:02,957 This is a Dynamike Network podcast. 2 00:00:24,130 --> 00:00:28,291 Hi and welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films 3 00:00:28,471 --> 00:00:33,354 and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based 4 00:00:33,434 --> 00:00:39,216 battle simulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm his twin brother, Johnny DC. And in this episode, 5 00:00:39,236 --> 00:00:44,839 we're going to review the latest Marvel Studios television release, Echo Season 1. The season 6 00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:50,901 dropped a few weeks ago, but we're just getting to reviewing it now. And uh, it was okay. It 7 00:00:50,961 --> 00:00:54,863 was alright. I feel like it's not as bad as people are making it out to be, personally. 8 00:00:55,024 --> 00:00:58,946 I kind of enjoyed it. I know I enjoyed it more than you at least, and I'm kind of interested 9 00:00:58,986 --> 00:01:02,188 to hear what you have to say about it. Oh, I'll bring you down. I'll bring you down to my level. 10 00:01:02,408 --> 00:01:07,391 It'll be fine. Sweet. I have reasons. We'll talk about them later. Before that, we're going 11 00:01:07,411 --> 00:01:11,533 to break down the latest comic book movie news to come out this past week, including the news 12 00:01:11,573 --> 00:01:17,096 that Wilson Bethel is confirmed to return as Bullseye in Daredevil Born Again, which is 13 00:01:17,136 --> 00:01:21,179 fantastic news. I can't wait to talk about that. As always, we list our segment times in our 14 00:01:21,219 --> 00:01:25,323 episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to 15 00:01:25,343 --> 00:01:30,888 a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent dual simulator AJ9K has a quick message for 16 00:01:30,908 --> 00:01:37,508 our listeners, so listen up. Why hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel 17 00:01:37,548 --> 00:01:42,771 and DC? Then become a part of the dynamic dual community on Patreon where you can choose from 18 00:01:42,811 --> 00:01:49,036 three tiers. The dynamic 2-0 tier lets you listen to this podcast without ads and gives you access 19 00:01:49,076 --> 00:01:54,199 to its Discord chat group where you can chat with Johnny DC and Marvelous Joe. The fantastic 20 00:01:54,239 --> 00:01:58,983 4 tier gives you that and more with two bonus episodes each month including bloopers and 21 00:01:59,023 --> 00:02:03,590 top 10 shows where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel and DC subjects. The 22 00:02:03,730 --> 00:02:08,212 X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of Dynamic Duel, where every month you help 23 00:02:08,232 --> 00:02:13,214 the hosts choose what to review and who to fight against each other. And finally, the Dynamite 24 00:02:13,234 --> 00:02:18,957 Podcast Network tier allows aspiring podcasters to create their own battle-focused show using 25 00:02:18,997 --> 00:02:23,679 this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic 26 00:02:23,719 --> 00:02:28,541 support and consultation, and get you simulation results to announce on your show. Pitch the 27 00:02:28,581 --> 00:02:30,282 twins your show via email at dyna 28 00:02:33,424 --> 00:02:40,325 them on social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic duel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks 29 00:02:40,405 --> 00:02:45,906 AJ 9k. And thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Guys, be sure to tune into the Max 30 00:02:45,946 --> 00:02:50,567 Destruction podcast, which is part of our Dynamike podcast network that show pits your favorite 31 00:02:50,667 --> 00:02:55,488 action heroes from film and television against each other. This week, hosts Ken and Scotty 32 00:02:55,829 --> 00:03:02,087 are going to review Dread. And on the Sinjo World podcast. Host Zachary Hepburn speculates 33 00:03:02,147 --> 00:03:06,429 on fights between your favorite anime characters. This week we're going to find out who would 34 00:03:06,469 --> 00:03:13,633 win between Dragon Ball's son Gohan vs. Saint Seiya's Phoenix Ikki? I don't know how to pronounce 35 00:03:13,653 --> 00:03:17,975 the name. I don't know if that's right. I'm sure you nailed it. On the Console Combat podcast, 36 00:03:18,035 --> 00:03:21,957 hosts John and Dean find out who would win in fights between your favorite video game characters. 37 00:03:22,478 --> 00:03:26,840 And in yesterday's episode, they continued into round two of their tournament, since they do 38 00:03:26,860 --> 00:03:35,236 a bracket tournament style. Street Fighter's Dark Ryu vs Metal Gear's Liquid Ocelot, and 39 00:03:35,416 --> 00:03:42,539 Resident Evil's Nemesis vs Mortal Kombat's Scorpion. Visit dynamicpodcast.com or click the link 40 00:03:42,579 --> 00:03:48,021 in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in the Dynamike Podcast Network. But with that 41 00:03:48,061 --> 00:03:54,484 out of the way, quick to the No Prize. A No Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to 42 00:03:54,504 --> 00:04:00,447 fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram for 43 00:04:00,487 --> 00:04:05,149 the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week we asked, 44 00:04:05,489 --> 00:04:10,831 what comic storyline from Marvel or DC would you want to see adapted as an animated film 45 00:04:10,891 --> 00:04:16,474 trilogy and why? And this is coming off of the review that we did last episode of Justice 46 00:04:16,494 --> 00:04:20,395 League Crisis on Infinite Earths, part one. And holy crap, we got a lot of great answers 47 00:04:20,435 --> 00:04:23,557 for this question. Can't wait to talk about them. Let's go ahead and run down our honorable 48 00:04:23,577 --> 00:04:29,627 mentions and the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Jacob Foster, who 49 00:04:29,687 --> 00:04:33,509 said, So yeah, the video game of Injustice. 50 00:04:54,482 --> 00:04:59,344 only covered a portion of the story. As we know, the comic series told everything that happened 51 00:04:59,624 --> 00:05:05,307 prior to the game, and it was a fantastic comic series. I would love to see that series adapted, 52 00:05:05,608 --> 00:05:10,010 along with a subsequent film of the Injustice storyline that happened during the video game, 53 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:15,093 followed up probably by the Injustice 2 storyline. I think that would be a fantastic trilogy. 54 00:05:15,413 --> 00:05:19,755 Yeah, we know that Injustice has already been adapted into an animated film, but you know, 55 00:05:19,935 --> 00:05:24,582 if you watch the movie or you listen to our review of that film, you know that a wasn't 56 00:05:24,602 --> 00:05:28,923 very good, so it would be nice to kind of get a redo on that and tell the story right as 57 00:05:28,963 --> 00:05:34,644 a trilogy and not cram everything into one film. Yeah, justice needs to be done to the story 58 00:05:34,744 --> 00:05:40,246 of injustice. What about deceased? Yeah, deceased could easily be a trilogy. Honestly, I feel 59 00:05:40,266 --> 00:05:44,407 like it could be an entire series. There's a lot of story there, like season upon season. 60 00:05:44,867 --> 00:05:48,968 And both injustice and deceased, if I remember correctly, are written by the same guy. Oh, 61 00:05:49,008 --> 00:05:53,369 yes, that's correct. Tom Taylor. So great answer, Jacob Foster. Our next honorable mention goes 62 00:05:53,409 --> 00:06:00,510 to... Nate Mantineo who said, Hey guys, Nate here. And I would just like to say that I would 63 00:06:01,010 --> 00:06:07,595 definitely have Annihilation be the three-part movie event in an animated trilogy. I think 64 00:06:07,635 --> 00:06:13,919 it's a great story with a ton of amount of cosmic everything. Anybody who's anybody in the Marvel 65 00:06:13,999 --> 00:06:18,922 Universe is going to be there and you want something big leading up to that. So maybe build up a 66 00:06:18,962 --> 00:06:23,485 movie universe and then have Annihilation. It would just be great. Thanks guys, love the 67 00:06:23,505 --> 00:06:28,219 show. Yeah, this is a fantastic answer. It blew my mind when I heard it, because I didn't even 68 00:06:28,259 --> 00:06:33,700 conceive of this as an animated film trilogy, but I would love to see Annihilation adapted 69 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:39,042 like that. It's to this day, the greatest cosmic tale that Marvel has ever done, or one of the 70 00:06:39,062 --> 00:06:45,204 greatest, I should say, because it joined together all of Marvel's spacefaring heroes and united 71 00:06:45,244 --> 00:06:49,945 them against a common threat of Annihilus and his Annihilation wave. I think you could break 72 00:06:49,985 --> 00:06:55,772 it down into the prologue. for Annihilation getting into the stories of like Drax and Nova 73 00:06:55,792 --> 00:07:00,654 and Silver Surfer and Super Skrull and basically setting up all the characters in the first 74 00:07:00,694 --> 00:07:05,877 film. In the second one, really get into the war against Nihilus and then have that end 75 00:07:05,898 --> 00:07:10,640 with probably Galactus getting captured and then at the end get into the Heralds of Galactus 76 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,483 and the ultimate defeat of Annihilus. I think that would play out perfectly. There was a 77 00:07:14,523 --> 00:07:20,134 lot of story there. It was fantastic. We get to explore characters like Nova as well. whom 78 00:07:20,214 --> 00:07:24,317 hasn't really got his due, I think, in the MCU. Of course, this would be animated, but I think 79 00:07:24,337 --> 00:07:30,401 it would be incredible. Yeah, Nate's idea of building up a entire animated universe just 80 00:07:30,421 --> 00:07:35,144 to have it possibly lead up to this Annihilation trilogy is an interesting idea. It's kind of 81 00:07:35,184 --> 00:07:40,508 the same thing that DC's doing in the Tomorrowverse, building up this animated cinematic universe 82 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:45,792 just to tear it down with Crisis on Infinite Earths. Yeah, I think Marvel could do it better 83 00:07:45,812 --> 00:07:50,511 than DC, and I would pay good money to see it happen. Dude, Marvel's animated movies suck. 84 00:07:50,531 --> 00:07:56,734 Like, you're not wrong, but also, shut your mouth. Great answer, Nate. Our final honorable 85 00:07:56,774 --> 00:08:02,797 mention goes to Travis Herndon, who said, Hey guys, Travis here. So my pick would have to 86 00:08:02,837 --> 00:08:07,900 be the Planet Hulk storyline. I know we had a Planet Hulk movie back in the early 2000s, 87 00:08:08,541 --> 00:08:15,164 so why not have two movies to finish the story off or just revamp it and do a complete retelling 88 00:08:15,424 --> 00:08:19,891 that's faithful to the comics? I think. It's time for us to actually get a faithful retelling 89 00:08:19,951 --> 00:08:24,854 of that amazing story about my whole. I love the Planet Hulk story. I think this is a fantastic 90 00:08:24,934 --> 00:08:29,257 answer. Of course, there already was a Planet Hulk animated movie, which is probably one 91 00:08:29,297 --> 00:08:34,221 of Marvel's better animated films. And I would just, yeah, like Travis said, work around that. 92 00:08:34,561 --> 00:08:40,325 Or maybe you have the prelude to Planet Hulk, where we get a solid Hulk story that ends with 93 00:08:40,365 --> 00:08:44,468 him being sent out into space by the Illuminati. And then we have the Planet Hulk storyline 94 00:08:44,788 --> 00:08:50,007 as the second film and then culminate it with the World War Hulk storyline. You don't get 95 00:08:50,047 --> 00:08:54,088 better than that. That would be cool. That'd be really cool. It'd be way better than the 96 00:08:54,128 --> 00:08:58,930 Hulk we have now in the MCU. Just like silly, smart Hulk. Yeah, we need like a good, solid, 97 00:08:58,950 --> 00:09:03,692 destructive Hulk film. It's been a while, and I don't think there's a better way to do it 98 00:09:03,932 --> 00:09:09,074 than a Planet Hulk trilogy of films. Great answer, Travis. We wanna give a quick shout out to 99 00:09:09,114 --> 00:09:14,356 Bideer Bangura, who gave the answer of Dark Knight's Metal, Colby Hentges, who gave the 100 00:09:14,416 --> 00:09:21,719 answer of House of M, who said Titans Beast World and Travis Bailey, who gave the answer 101 00:09:21,779 --> 00:09:28,501 of Marvel's Wastelanders. But the winner of this week's No Prize is Scott Camacho, who 102 00:09:28,541 --> 00:09:35,082 said, The story series I want DC to adapt into animated would be the Blackest Night series 103 00:09:35,523 --> 00:09:43,685 of the Lantern Course. I think the lanterns are due for an outstanding story to be told 104 00:09:43,865 --> 00:09:51,834 animated and especially live action. And since the movies have been darker lately, I'm thinking 105 00:09:51,874 --> 00:09:58,339 this would be a great time to pull that off, Blackest Night. So this gets the win because 106 00:09:58,780 --> 00:10:05,966 not only is Blackest Night an awesome storyline, but it's already part of a comic trilogy that 107 00:10:06,006 --> 00:10:11,870 began with Green Lantern Rebirth and led into the Sinestro Corps War. only to be concluded 108 00:10:11,930 --> 00:10:17,193 by Blackest Night, which was like a full DC Universe spanning event. It's a fantastic trilogy 109 00:10:17,753 --> 00:10:22,555 and I'm really surprised that they haven't adapted that onto screen yet. Like I thought that would 110 00:10:22,595 --> 00:10:27,058 have been perfect for the Tomorrowverse, those three films. Yeah, I feel like Green Lantern 111 00:10:27,078 --> 00:10:30,039 movies are far and few between. I don't know if there's kind of like a chilling effect on 112 00:10:30,159 --> 00:10:35,910 behalf of the studio due to the reception of the 2011 Green Lantern movie, but... Fortunately, 113 00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:40,111 we did get one Green Lantern film in the Tomorrowverse, which was Blackest Night, which was a pretty 114 00:10:40,151 --> 00:10:45,032 solid movie, I thought. But yeah, I mean, the greatest Green Lantern tale out there so far, 115 00:10:45,112 --> 00:10:49,213 I think, is just ripe for the picking. Absolutely. I would agree that it's the greatest Green 116 00:10:49,253 --> 00:10:54,715 Lantern story. You know, Green Lantern Rebirth set up like the emotional spectrum. Sinestro 117 00:10:54,755 --> 00:11:00,696 Corps just ramped that up and really began introducing the other color spectrums. And then Blackest 118 00:11:00,716 --> 00:11:06,498 Night just had this massive zombie outbreak across the whole universe. fantastic. If they 119 00:11:06,538 --> 00:11:11,800 don't adapt it to animation, they need to adapt it to live action. Like maybe for the television 120 00:11:11,820 --> 00:11:15,122 series that James Gunn is producing. Yeah. I mean, we don't know what story is going to 121 00:11:15,142 --> 00:11:20,344 be adapted for James Gunn's television series, lanterns. It's supposed to be like true detective 122 00:11:20,504 --> 00:11:25,906 esque, which doesn't sound cosmic to me, but who knows? Great answer, Scotty. You win this 123 00:11:25,946 --> 00:11:30,288 week's no prize. If you the listener want a shot at winning your own no prize, stay tuned 124 00:11:30,328 --> 00:11:35,091 to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. And now that 125 00:11:35,111 --> 00:11:37,036 that's done, on to the news! 126 00:11:42,562 --> 00:11:47,885 Coming off the recent news that Debra Anwalt and Eldon Henson will be returning as Karen 127 00:11:47,905 --> 00:11:53,549 Page and Foggy Nelson in the upcoming Daredevil Born Again Disney Plus Marvel Studios television 128 00:11:53,589 --> 00:11:59,814 series, we got even better news this week. It was confirmed by Deadline that Wilson Bethel, 129 00:12:00,034 --> 00:12:05,718 who played Benjamin Poindexter aka Bullseye on the Netflix Daredevil series, is going to 130 00:12:05,738 --> 00:12:11,542 be showing up in at least three episodes of the series, which is currently filming. And 131 00:12:11,862 --> 00:12:16,264 if you guys watched the Netflix Daredevil show, you're already super excited by this because 132 00:12:16,604 --> 00:12:21,846 Daredevil season 3 was not only great superhero television, it was just fantastic television 133 00:12:21,886 --> 00:12:27,568 in general and a large part of that was due to the fantastic portrayal of the extremely 134 00:12:27,608 --> 00:12:33,631 dangerous Daredevil villain Bullseye. Dude, like the villains in the Daredevil series are 135 00:12:33,691 --> 00:12:38,753 amongst the best villains that have ever been depicted on screen in my opinion. Bullseye 136 00:12:39,093 --> 00:12:45,002 in particular was unbelievably horrifying, way more scary than I thought he would be. And 137 00:12:45,062 --> 00:12:50,006 he was the character I was most hoping would make a return for this new Daredevil show and 138 00:12:50,186 --> 00:12:54,370 it's super exciting to hear that he is. Yeah, a couple of weeks ago our question of the week 139 00:12:54,390 --> 00:12:58,854 was, what other character from the Daredevil Netflix series do you most hope returns for 140 00:12:59,014 --> 00:13:03,398 Disney Plus's Daredevil Born Again show? And we got a few good answers, but the correct 141 00:13:03,478 --> 00:13:08,718 answer as we stated in the last episode was And then lo and behold, all of a sudden we 142 00:13:08,738 --> 00:13:13,699 get that confirmation. It's just so exciting to see as a fan. I'm really hoping that in 143 00:13:13,739 --> 00:13:19,301 this season we'll get to see him in his, like, traditional iconic bullseye outfit or some 144 00:13:19,401 --> 00:13:23,602 adaptation of that. For sure. Yeah, because we didn't get to see that in Daredevil season 145 00:13:23,622 --> 00:13:28,403 three. I'm really loving all the choices that Dario Skardapain seems to be making. And now 146 00:13:28,483 --> 00:13:32,925 that Marvel has kind of decided to reboot the Daredevil series, it looks like they're giving 147 00:13:32,945 --> 00:13:38,562 fans exactly what they want. It looks like it's going to be basically Netflix's Daredevil season 148 00:13:38,602 --> 00:13:43,023 four, which is everything that the fans could hope for. Yeah, wouldn't it be great if they 149 00:13:43,063 --> 00:13:48,365 like also brought back Electra and we had like the Bullseye versus Electra face off? That'd 150 00:13:48,405 --> 00:13:53,686 be dope. I mean, Electra already died in the Daredevil Netflix series. She died at the end 151 00:13:53,706 --> 00:13:58,268 of season two. So I don't know if they would want to retread that where she's like resurrected 152 00:13:58,288 --> 00:14:03,069 by the hand again, but no, I would like to see Electra returned regardless. I thought Elodie 153 00:14:03,089 --> 00:14:08,083 Young made a fantastic Electra. Everyone in that show was like perfectly cast. So glad 154 00:14:08,243 --> 00:14:12,425 most of the cast is returning. Yeah, it seems like Marvel is making all the right decisions, 155 00:14:12,485 --> 00:14:16,047 you know, the same decisions that made them so endearing to fans in the first place, where 156 00:14:16,087 --> 00:14:20,290 they're truly giving us what we want to see, you know? And why not? Like, studios do not 157 00:14:20,350 --> 00:14:25,613 do that enough. Just freaking listen to the fans. Exactly, exactly. But this news brings 158 00:14:25,653 --> 00:14:26,933 us to our question of the week. 159 00:14:31,446 --> 00:14:36,870 Who is your favorite villain from a Marvel or DC television series, and why? Record your 160 00:14:36,930 --> 00:14:41,333 answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand 161 00:14:41,373 --> 00:14:45,736 corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message can be 162 00:14:45,776 --> 00:14:50,800 up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. 163 00:14:51,140 --> 00:14:55,804 We'll pick our favorite answer, and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that we'll post 164 00:14:55,904 --> 00:15:01,352 to Instagram. Be sure to answer before- February 3rd. There's a lot of great Marvel DC television 165 00:15:01,392 --> 00:15:05,061 series out there guys a lot for you to choose from I'm really looking forward to these answers 166 00:15:13,038 --> 00:15:17,302 But that does it for all the news for this episode, so let's go ahead and get into the main event, 167 00:15:17,743 --> 00:15:23,829 where we discuss the latest Disney Plus Marvel Studios television series, Echo Season 1. 168 00:15:39,346 --> 00:15:44,528 ECHO Season 1 debuted a few weeks ago on Disney Plus as the latest Marvel Studios television 169 00:15:44,548 --> 00:15:50,290 series, with the series led by head director Sidney Freeland and starring Ilaquah Cox and 170 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:56,373 Vincent D'Onofrio. It's a spin-off series from 2021's Hawkeye Show, where the character of 171 00:15:56,473 --> 00:16:01,315 ECHO was introduced into the MCU as the daughter of the tracksuit mafia leader who was killed 172 00:16:01,355 --> 00:16:07,619 by Hawkeye's alternate identity of Ronin. At the end of that show, And I guess let me take 173 00:16:07,659 --> 00:16:12,023 this opportunity to say spoiler warning. This is a spoiler review, not only for Echo season 174 00:16:12,103 --> 00:16:17,848 one, but probably also for Hawkeye. At the end of Hawkeye season one, Echo learned that the 175 00:16:17,908 --> 00:16:22,992 Kingpin led Ronin to the Track Suit Mafia's hideout and was directly responsible for her 176 00:16:23,032 --> 00:16:28,937 father's death. Seeking revenge, Echo shot Kingpin in the face, believing him to be dead, which 177 00:16:28,977 --> 00:16:34,782 is where Echo season one picks up. Now, I enjoyed Hawkeye season one. We rated it three and a 178 00:16:34,802 --> 00:16:39,984 half stars on this podcast. And while I was interested in Echo's introduction, I wasn't 179 00:16:40,024 --> 00:16:46,146 sure at the time if she would be able to headline her own series. Now that I've seen the series, 180 00:16:46,606 --> 00:16:52,608 I guess I'm still wondering. That's not to discount Alok Wacawks's performance, and we'll talk 181 00:16:52,628 --> 00:16:57,389 about that later. But I mean, like, let's be honest, Echo was a series that really no one 182 00:16:57,549 --> 00:17:01,929 asked for. The character is not too popular in the books, although I will say she is a 183 00:17:01,989 --> 00:17:06,072 very interesting character, you should definitely learn more about her in our question vs echo 184 00:17:06,132 --> 00:17:10,416 duel episode if you don't know anything about her. But it seems that in this day and age 185 00:17:10,597 --> 00:17:15,701 of Marvel Studios where they're finding themselves in a situation of diminishing returns from 186 00:17:15,741 --> 00:17:21,627 producing too much content that people are caring less about, Echo season 1 seems like an unnecessary 187 00:17:21,647 --> 00:17:27,251 addition to their television catalog. I dunno, I like the idea- of an Echo television series 188 00:17:27,311 --> 00:17:32,956 and that it could be something unique and that's definitely what they shot for with this show. 189 00:17:33,517 --> 00:17:38,801 Unique to the MCU for sure. Yeah absolutely. Yeah and perhaps that's why with this series 190 00:17:38,841 --> 00:17:42,724 Marvel introduced the Marvel spotlight banner which is supposed to represent projects in 191 00:17:42,744 --> 00:17:47,829 the MCU that aren't necessarily connected to the main canon telling more grounded character 192 00:17:47,869 --> 00:17:52,412 driven stories. Basically you don't have to watch Echo season 1 to stay caught up with 193 00:17:52,432 --> 00:17:58,125 the Marvel Studios continuity. And I would say unless you're really invested in the character 194 00:17:58,146 --> 00:18:03,051 of Echo, I don't know if I would bother with this show. Unless of course Echo ends up being 195 00:18:03,091 --> 00:18:09,097 like a member of the New Avengers team or something like that. I doubt that. You never know. I 196 00:18:09,117 --> 00:18:13,761 mean she was a member of the Avengers in the comics, so yeah, you could be right. Maybe 197 00:18:13,902 --> 00:18:18,230 if you're looking for more grounded content, you might be enticed to watch this. But even 198 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:23,293 then I wouldn't say Echo Season 1 really warranted all the TVMA marketing that went into this 199 00:18:23,333 --> 00:18:28,237 series. Absolutely. I feel like the worst stuff was shown in the trailer. Yeah, it was basically 200 00:18:28,257 --> 00:18:35,502 a montage of all the violence. The trailer for this was incredible and even won my brother's 201 00:18:35,542 --> 00:18:41,106 award for best trailer of last year. The marketing seemed to promise a return to the type of rated-R 202 00:18:41,146 --> 00:18:45,909 storytelling that existed within the Marvel Netflix series, like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, 203 00:18:45,949 --> 00:18:50,775 and The Punisher. I wouldn't say Echo seemed very rated R outside of like one or two shots 204 00:18:50,795 --> 00:18:56,916 of violence, it seemed very PG-13 in my mind. So even if you're a fan of the old Netflix 205 00:18:56,936 --> 00:19:01,358 shows and wanting more mature Marvel fare, I don't think you'll be that satisfied with Echo 206 00:19:01,398 --> 00:19:06,179 Season 1 and it may be just better to wait for the Daredevil Born Again series which will 207 00:19:06,199 --> 00:19:10,841 come out next year and is hopefully a return to form for gritty grounded superhero shows. 208 00:19:10,861 --> 00:19:15,106 So what you're saying is no one's gonna find this show satisfying. I don't think fans of 209 00:19:15,166 --> 00:19:18,268 Echo will find this satisfying. I don't think fans of the Marvel Netflix series will find 210 00:19:18,288 --> 00:19:23,032 this satisfying. I don't know who would find this satisfying. But to get into what I didn't 211 00:19:23,072 --> 00:19:28,255 find disappointing about the show, it did have about two badass action scenes, like one in 212 00:19:28,295 --> 00:19:31,958 episode one that actually included Daredevil, which was awesome. That was cool. And there 213 00:19:31,978 --> 00:19:36,281 was another action scene in episode three that took place in a skating rink. You know, in 214 00:19:36,321 --> 00:19:40,684 a five episode series, you would probably hope for even more action, but those scenes were 215 00:19:40,704 --> 00:19:45,895 the best of what we got and they were great. You'd expect the best action scene to be in 216 00:19:45,975 --> 00:19:51,978 episode five for like the climax, but nope, it was episode one. Yeah. That's a little bit 217 00:19:51,998 --> 00:19:57,620 disappointing. The last action scene in the climax of the show had a tremendously disappointing 218 00:19:57,660 --> 00:20:01,622 resolution. It was almost as disappointing as the resolution to She Hulk, but I wouldn't 219 00:20:01,662 --> 00:20:06,365 go that far. You know, at least we had some punches thrown even if they were from, you 220 00:20:06,385 --> 00:20:11,808 know, a 70 year old grandma. Story wise, there wasn't too much here. Basically, Echo goes 221 00:20:11,828 --> 00:20:16,972 to her hometown in Oklahoma in an attempt to stage a coup over Kingpin's empire, but ends 222 00:20:17,032 --> 00:20:22,556 up rediscovering her roots. It's surprising to me that this show was initially shot as 223 00:20:22,576 --> 00:20:27,739 an eight episode release that was later pared down to five episodes. And honestly, thank 224 00:20:27,779 --> 00:20:32,203 God. But I think that they could have taken that even further and this probably should 225 00:20:32,223 --> 00:20:37,602 have been a Disney Plus film or a Marvel Studios special presentation. I think that runtime 226 00:20:37,722 --> 00:20:41,823 would have served the story a little bit better that they had here and it would have moved 227 00:20:41,883 --> 00:20:48,025 at a quicker clip and been more enjoyable overall. I don't know if I agree with that. I think 228 00:20:48,245 --> 00:20:55,607 Maya's mission to take down Kinkpin and become the new Queenpin of New York City crime required 229 00:20:55,707 --> 00:21:01,448 a lot more story than what they gave us here. This was a very small story. I don't understand 230 00:21:01,488 --> 00:21:06,262 how she was trying to take down Kinkpin from fucking Oklahoma. Like they should have had 231 00:21:06,282 --> 00:21:11,085 her travel to New York City, meet people there, you know, work the criminal underground from 232 00:21:11,365 --> 00:21:16,268 the city. I don't know. It was just weird. That would have been a better concept. Of course, 233 00:21:16,328 --> 00:21:20,470 it would have gone against, you know, the whole returning to your roots story that they were 234 00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:24,532 telling here. Sure. But yeah, I think either this could have been an eight episode series, 235 00:21:24,692 --> 00:21:28,255 like what you were describing or it could have been a film for the existing story that they 236 00:21:28,275 --> 00:21:33,337 had. Yeah, yeah, I agree. One of the other things I enjoyed about the show was the cultural representation. 237 00:21:34,034 --> 00:21:39,139 It's not often that a superhero has such strong ties to their cultural identity, but it's always 238 00:21:39,179 --> 00:21:44,304 fascinating to see such as in films like Black Panther or Shang-Chi. And here we got a great 239 00:21:44,344 --> 00:21:48,608 glimpse into the Choctaw Nation. Although I think they could have delved even deeper into 240 00:21:48,648 --> 00:21:52,932 that. You know, I think the exploration that we got of the Choctaw was only surface level. 241 00:21:53,413 --> 00:21:58,017 Yeah, I probably would have thought that this was a great exploration of the Choctaw Nation. 242 00:21:58,430 --> 00:22:03,331 If I hadn't just watched Killers of the Flower Moon like less than a week prior and their 243 00:22:03,431 --> 00:22:08,212 examination of the Osage Indians who also lived in Oklahoma. They even had some of the same 244 00:22:08,252 --> 00:22:13,574 cast members for Echo as they did in Killers of the Flower Moon and Killers of the Flower 245 00:22:13,614 --> 00:22:19,056 Moon was way better. I have to check that out. I always like Scorsese stuff. So what was interesting 246 00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:22,717 here though is that not only did we get the Native American cultural representation, we 247 00:22:22,757 --> 00:22:26,954 also got a great crash course in American Sign Language. I mean, I've never seen a project, 248 00:22:27,054 --> 00:22:32,497 film or television. I never got around to seeing Coda where so much of the dialogue was done 249 00:22:32,537 --> 00:22:37,720 with signing. And I thought that was fantastic and truly fascinating to watch. And the cast 250 00:22:37,740 --> 00:22:42,803 did great, not only with the ASL, but with everything. You know, there aren't too many opportunities, 251 00:22:42,843 --> 00:22:47,585 it seems, for Native American roles. And it's great to see how much talent there is within 252 00:22:47,605 --> 00:22:53,013 their group. from old greats like Graham Greene to some slightly familiar faces like Julia 253 00:22:53,033 --> 00:22:58,318 Jones and enjoyable relative newcomers like Cody Lightning who played Cousin Biscuits. 254 00:22:58,838 --> 00:23:03,462 Yeah, I know how to sign bullshit in sign language now. It's dangerously close to I love you. 255 00:23:03,842 --> 00:23:07,726 Yeah, if you mumble with your signing, you could end up either way in a lot of trouble. Ha ha 256 00:23:08,967 --> 00:23:13,591 ha. But speaking of the actors, let's go ahead and get into the character breakdown. Only 257 00:23:13,671 --> 00:23:19,166 two major roles to talk about and one of them is of course Echo. aka Maya Lopez played by 258 00:23:19,306 --> 00:23:25,469 Alaka Cox. I wanna start off by saying that Alaka Cox is an inspiration as an action hero. 259 00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:30,432 I think that the physical choreography and the stunts she's performed are incredible, not 260 00:23:30,512 --> 00:23:36,014 even accounting for her missing leg and inability to hear. When you do account for those things, 261 00:23:36,154 --> 00:23:41,197 it's even more amazing what she's accomplished. I don't want anything negative I say about 262 00:23:41,237 --> 00:23:46,879 the show to discount how truly... in awe I am of her skill and like I hate being this douche 263 00:23:46,939 --> 00:23:51,622 hurling criticism from an armchair when she's out there literally winning as a one-legged 264 00:23:51,662 --> 00:23:57,825 woman in an ass-kicking contest. On one hand, this version of Echo is so different from the 265 00:23:57,865 --> 00:24:03,268 comic book character who's like this sophisticated elegant socialite. And on the other hand, I 266 00:24:03,288 --> 00:24:07,811 couldn't possibly imagine there is a better person out there to play Maya Lopez than Iloquo 267 00:24:07,831 --> 00:24:10,232 Cox. And I think really Iloquo 268 00:24:13,526 --> 00:24:17,709 It's the show writers who don't really seem to know the Kong book character, painting her 269 00:24:17,749 --> 00:24:23,434 here as this gritty, unlikable, brash, hard ass with an entirely different power set from 270 00:24:23,474 --> 00:24:28,258 the source material. It's like the writers never even read the comics. Yeah, I remember you 271 00:24:28,338 --> 00:24:33,822 mentioning that she is essentially like Taskmaster. And, you know, I was telling my wife that as 272 00:24:33,842 --> 00:24:37,986 we were watching the show together, just explaining how different this character is in the comics, 273 00:24:38,406 --> 00:24:43,614 about how she's just able to see someone move or do martial arts. and then she's able to 274 00:24:43,814 --> 00:24:48,595 echo it or mimic it right off the bat. Right. Yeah, that's why she has her name Echo in the 275 00:24:48,635 --> 00:24:54,337 comic books. She has photographic reflexes like Taskmaster, but she also has heightened visual 276 00:24:54,377 --> 00:24:59,418 acuity like Cassandra Cain from DC Comics. It's fascinating. And we kind of got a glimpse of 277 00:24:59,458 --> 00:25:04,700 those abilities in Hawkeye Season One, where she was able to anticipate her opponents moves. 278 00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:10,861 But here the writers decided to forgo all that and give her powers that tie into her Native 279 00:25:10,901 --> 00:25:16,291 American ancestry. Which is also cool. Like that was interesting and how like she was able 280 00:25:16,331 --> 00:25:22,472 to like call on the talents of her ancestors. But also I didn't get the healing thing. Like 281 00:25:22,532 --> 00:25:27,774 was her mama mutant or some shit? Yeah, it's weird. I think it was all spiritual mystical 282 00:25:27,814 --> 00:25:33,776 based abilities. And there was a time in the comic books when Echo had actual superpowers 283 00:25:33,816 --> 00:25:37,757 when she was the host of the Phoenix Force. And I mentioned that in our question versus 284 00:25:37,877 --> 00:25:41,706 Echo dual episode that I didn't think those powers would stick. and I was right because 285 00:25:41,726 --> 00:25:46,829 she ended up exhausting her Phoenix Force powers while trying to save the multiverse. So I don't 286 00:25:46,849 --> 00:25:51,511 know if her ancestral powers were supposed to kind of tap into that aspect of her abilities 287 00:25:51,531 --> 00:25:55,894 from the comics, or if they were just kind of, you know, running fast and loose with the idea 288 00:25:55,954 --> 00:25:59,996 of the character. Does it bother you that they were? I mean, the character is somewhat obscure 289 00:26:00,036 --> 00:26:04,979 in the comics. I hate it when the writers don't really adhere to the source material, because 290 00:26:04,999 --> 00:26:09,201 then at that point it becomes a character that I don't recognize. Now sometimes they have 291 00:26:09,241 --> 00:26:14,257 good ideas. but every good idea should have some semblance to the source material I think. 292 00:26:14,538 --> 00:26:19,903 I agree. Otherwise, just make an original character. Right, like they did with Kihori in Marvel's 293 00:26:19,943 --> 00:26:25,849 What If, who was fantastic. This series portrayed Echo as power hungry but without providing 294 00:26:25,889 --> 00:26:31,155 clear motivations as to why she would want to rule New York's crime empire, or how she would 295 00:26:31,195 --> 00:26:36,103 achieve that besides blowing up a weapons facility. You know, in the show, Maya said that her enemies 296 00:26:36,143 --> 00:26:40,487 were playing right into her plan, but it's unclear what that plan was gonna be. You know, she 297 00:26:40,587 --> 00:26:45,652 obviously thought that she could take on all of New York from the middle of nowhere Oklahoma, 298 00:26:46,132 --> 00:26:50,576 but I never once believed that she'd be able to achieve that as an audience member. Honestly, 299 00:26:50,797 --> 00:26:57,402 I never really believed anything about the character. You haven't really mentioned her acting ability, 300 00:26:57,583 --> 00:27:02,538 but I'll be the one to say it. She's not the best actress. She's a better action star than 301 00:27:02,578 --> 00:27:07,019 she is an actress. Absolutely. I mean, there were times where I thought she actually did 302 00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:11,961 pretty well in her emotional scenes. But yeah, overall, I think she's still growing as an 303 00:27:12,021 --> 00:27:18,022 actress. Yeah, I think her emotions were for the majority of it, a little to one note. It 304 00:27:18,042 --> 00:27:22,984 was always anger all the time. I actually really liked it when she was a bit more expressive. 305 00:27:23,584 --> 00:27:27,885 Yeah, for sure. A little bit one note. She always just came off as prickly and it doesn't make 306 00:27:27,905 --> 00:27:32,235 for the most endearing protagonist. For her arc, you know, instead of rising to power over 307 00:27:32,275 --> 00:27:36,837 the criminal underworld, she instead discovered how much her family meant to her, and that 308 00:27:36,877 --> 00:27:42,020 her mom and her ancestors were always watching over her. She healed from the pain of losing 309 00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:47,163 her family, and instead by the end embraces her relatives, heritage, and her lineage. Now 310 00:27:47,183 --> 00:27:51,245 finding strength in your roots and in those who love you is not a new theme in the world 311 00:27:51,265 --> 00:27:55,608 of superheroes. In fact, it's pretty common, but I will say that at least we get the novelty 312 00:27:55,648 --> 00:28:00,706 of seeing it represented in this way with the Choctaw Nation. Where have we seen this before? 313 00:28:01,147 --> 00:28:06,551 Dude, strength in family is such a common theme in superhero movies. Like, take for instance 314 00:28:06,571 --> 00:28:10,714 recently Blue Beetle. Yeah. I would even say Guardians of the Galaxy has strong familial 315 00:28:10,754 --> 00:28:15,557 themes. Okay, I mean, that's fair. But like, roots is different from family, I would say. 316 00:28:15,597 --> 00:28:20,200 Like, culture is different from family. Like, gathering strength from that, I think, actually 317 00:28:20,441 --> 00:28:25,985 makes Echo unique. That's true. I mean, it's not that unique, given, you know, things like 318 00:28:26,025 --> 00:28:31,051 Shang-Chi and Black Panther. But it's unique for this specific culture, which is nice. That's 319 00:28:31,091 --> 00:28:36,114 fair. Let's go to move on to Kingpin, a.k.a. Wilson Fisk, once again, played by Vincent 320 00:28:36,154 --> 00:28:42,196 D'Onofrio. You know, he was flawless, obviously. It was really good to see a return to form 321 00:28:42,256 --> 00:28:46,939 after the slightly more cartoony take on Kingpin that we saw in the Hawkeye television series. 322 00:28:47,059 --> 00:28:53,882 Dude, I was so happy with Kingpin in the show. I was like, hell yeah, bro. Hell yeah. Yeah, 323 00:28:53,902 --> 00:28:59,184 I remember you complaining a lot about the character in our review of Hawkeye season one. So, yeah, 324 00:28:59,304 --> 00:29:03,947 it's good that he's back to being a gruff, terrifying presence who often comes across as just this 325 00:29:04,047 --> 00:29:10,170 powder keg of a man just waiting to explode and unleash his clearly unhinged palpable rage. 326 00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:14,893 Yeah, like totally unpredictable. You just never know when the guy is going to snap and it's 327 00:29:14,933 --> 00:29:20,255 terrifying when he does. Yeah. For me, Vincent D'Onafrio nearly saves this show. His presence 328 00:29:20,275 --> 00:29:25,476 was so welcome when he did finally show up at the end of episode three, and he elevated things, 329 00:29:25,636 --> 00:29:31,298 I think, when he came aboard. Oh, dude, he is so fantastic in the role. He's Marvel's best 330 00:29:31,378 --> 00:29:35,459 villain, in my opinion. Hands down. He's up there, for sure. In this series, we see Kingpin's 331 00:29:35,499 --> 00:29:40,400 reaction to Echo's betrayal from the Hawkeye Show. You know, there are only so many people 332 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,050 that Kingpin extends any measure of grace or forgiveness to, and those are the... rare people 333 00:29:45,090 --> 00:29:51,573 that he loves. Vanessa, his wife, would be one person. Maya is another. So when he gave her 334 00:29:51,713 --> 00:29:56,955 that second chance as a comic fan, it was almost unbelievable to witness the opportunity he 335 00:29:56,976 --> 00:30:02,638 was extending her. And it was exciting knowing that after Maya's refusal of his generous offer, 336 00:30:03,098 --> 00:30:08,261 that shit was just gonna hit the fan. Like I was on the edge of my seat at the end of episode 337 00:30:08,301 --> 00:30:14,544 four. But. That anticipation just kind of fizzled by the end of the show and you know, Kingpin 338 00:30:14,764 --> 00:30:20,347 seemingly gets neutered of his unbridled rage. Yeah, what the hell was that? He was like, 339 00:30:20,387 --> 00:30:25,530 what did you do to me? What did you do to me? And I was like, what did you do to him? I don't 340 00:30:25,570 --> 00:30:31,173 even know. I'm confused. Answer the question. The show never does. You know, and that's a 341 00:30:31,213 --> 00:30:35,476 disappointment, but we'll have to see where that goes in Daredevil Born Again, where apparently 342 00:30:35,516 --> 00:30:41,260 in that series, based on the after credit scene here. he'll become the mayor of New York. I'm 343 00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:46,224 excited to see that. Yeah, that's a fantastic setup. Definitely got me excited, even more 344 00:30:46,264 --> 00:30:51,128 excited for the Daredevil show. That was a great arc in the comics and I hope they do it justice. 345 00:30:51,628 --> 00:30:56,292 Everyone else on the show, they were fantastic, but they really only had minor roles. So let's 346 00:30:56,312 --> 00:30:58,213 go ahead and get into our episode highlights. 347 00:31:05,422 --> 00:31:11,203 Episode 1 was called Chaffa. At the dawn of time, a woman named Chaffa emerges from a cave 348 00:31:11,363 --> 00:31:15,884 as she and her people become the first of the Choctaw Native American tribe. In present-day 349 00:31:15,984 --> 00:31:21,186 Oklahoma, young Maya and her mother Taloa get into an auto accident when their truck's brake 350 00:31:21,206 --> 00:31:27,167 lines are cut by criminals looking to kill Maya's father, William. Taloa dies and Maya loses 351 00:31:27,207 --> 00:31:32,069 her leg, prompting William to move Maya away with him to New York where he works for the 352 00:31:32,109 --> 00:31:37,699 kingpin who becomes Maya's adoptive uncle. William leads the tracksuit mafia who is wiped out 353 00:31:37,739 --> 00:31:43,621 by Hawkeye, aka Ronan at the time, and Maya's father dies in her arms. After learning Kingpin 354 00:31:43,701 --> 00:31:48,623 tipped off Ronan, she shoots Kingpin in the face and escapes to Oklahoma to her childhood 355 00:31:48,663 --> 00:31:53,585 home where she meets with her cousin Biscuits and her uncle Henry, the latter of whom she 356 00:31:53,705 --> 00:31:59,528 asks for help in taking over Kingpin's empire. In the end, it's revealed Kingpin survived 357 00:31:59,608 --> 00:32:05,042 the shooting. I thought the opening to the series was fantastic. It's actually probably the best 358 00:32:05,062 --> 00:32:10,684 part of the show where we see the Choctaw Nation rise from their cave onto the earth. How fascinating 359 00:32:10,724 --> 00:32:16,327 was that? A great, incredible depiction of mythology. Yeah, it was pretty cool. I thought it was 360 00:32:16,447 --> 00:32:21,028 a great visual for sure. But not just that opening, I thought this whole first episode was actually 361 00:32:21,068 --> 00:32:26,211 pretty solid. Dude, it had the Daredevil fight, which was excellent. Yeah, I saw a clip of 362 00:32:26,231 --> 00:32:31,293 the fight in advance of watching the series, and I thought the choreography actually moved 363 00:32:31,333 --> 00:32:37,576 a little bit over rehearsed and slow. But seeing it in context of that larger one shot framing, 364 00:32:38,036 --> 00:32:41,958 I thought it was incredible. I was so happy seeing that instead of the shitty, you know, 365 00:32:42,078 --> 00:32:47,922 yellow mustard costume that we saw in She-Hulk. Yeah, the stunt actor who played Daredevil, 366 00:32:47,962 --> 00:32:51,564 I mean, Charlie Cox was great in the few lines that he delivered, but I got to commend the 367 00:32:51,584 --> 00:32:55,766 Daredevil stunt guy. The way he moves feels very Daredevil to me. It was like seeing the 368 00:32:55,786 --> 00:33:00,429 character leap right off the page. Yeah, the way he leaped over the fence. Damn, that was 369 00:33:00,469 --> 00:33:04,477 cool. That was sick. It was so cool to have Daredevil and Hawkeye in the same episode. 370 00:33:04,777 --> 00:33:09,322 Like I know we saw Matt Murdock in Spider-Man, No Way Home, and that was cool. But to see 371 00:33:09,342 --> 00:33:13,266 the character in costume and then we have, you know, Hawkeye in the Ronin costume and stuff 372 00:33:13,286 --> 00:33:17,931 like that, it just feels like the universe is coalescing in a way that's so exciting as a 373 00:33:17,991 --> 00:33:21,895 Marvel fan. You don't know how freaking lucky you are that the Netflix shows are a part of 374 00:33:21,935 --> 00:33:26,943 the MCU now. Man, that's, that's really cool. It was apparent even from this first episode 375 00:33:26,963 --> 00:33:31,006 though that there were some editing issues, like there was a lot of stuff cut out, because 376 00:33:31,146 --> 00:33:35,209 later on in the episode I remember just thinking like, who the fuck is Biscuits? Who the hell 377 00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:40,493 is this guy? Like, they name drop the character in one line early in the episode where they're 378 00:33:40,513 --> 00:33:43,916 like, Biscuits is gonna be mad he didn't get to camp with the girls or something like that, 379 00:33:44,176 --> 00:33:47,478 but it was so throwaway. They presented the character like we were supposed to know who 380 00:33:47,518 --> 00:33:52,186 he was, and maybe, you know, in a different cut of this show we were supposed to. Yeah, 381 00:33:52,306 --> 00:33:57,007 I felt the same way. I didn't even get the name drop earlier on. I was just like, who the fuck 382 00:33:57,067 --> 00:34:04,309 is Biscuits? Okay. Episode 2 was called LOWAK. In 13th century Alabama, a woman named LOWAK 383 00:34:04,349 --> 00:34:09,410 competes in a game of Choctaw Stickball and manifests strength from a vision of Chaffa 384 00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:14,832 to win the game for her team. In the present day, Maya gets Biscuits to follow her as she 385 00:34:14,872 --> 00:34:20,213 boards one of Kingpin's cargo trains. Finding the munitions cart, she plants a homemade bomb 386 00:34:20,253 --> 00:34:25,148 inside. As she attempts to flee, her leg gets stuck in one of the train's couplings, at which 387 00:34:25,208 --> 00:34:29,732 point she experiences a vision of Chafa and Loic before summoning the strength to free 388 00:34:29,752 --> 00:34:35,015 herself. The bomb explodes as the train reaches its destination in New York, destroying one 389 00:34:35,035 --> 00:34:40,339 of Kinkman's weapons facilities. Maya gets her grandmother's ex, Scully, to fashion her a 390 00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:44,982 new leg, and her uncle Henry warns her that her actions are going to get the people close 391 00:34:45,002 --> 00:34:50,462 to her killed. Frustrated, she fires her gun at a swing set in a fit of emotion. You know 392 00:34:50,482 --> 00:34:53,586 what that scene reminded me of when she just started shooting the swing set and then the 393 00:34:53,626 --> 00:35:00,093 episode ended? It reminded me of a scene in Hot Fuzz where Nick Frost asks Simon Pegg, 394 00:35:00,434 --> 00:35:04,759 have you ever like shot your gun in the air and gone, ah, like Keanu Reeves did in Point 395 00:35:04,799 --> 00:35:10,326 Break? And he's like, no, I've never shot my gun in the air and gone, ah. You know. Just 396 00:35:10,386 --> 00:35:14,607 firing your weapon as a display of emotion. I always thought it was incredibly cheesy. 397 00:35:14,647 --> 00:35:18,928 I don't know why she was shooting her swing set. It was just really bizarre, lame way to 398 00:35:19,068 --> 00:35:25,110 end this episode. Now, is it just me or does Choctaw's stick ball seem ridiculously hard? 399 00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:33,892 Like lacrosse, but like impossible. I'm still wondering how Maya's ancestor won. Like she 400 00:35:33,952 --> 00:35:39,538 just got a vision, did a flip. I didn't even see the ball in her net stick thing. And I 401 00:35:39,558 --> 00:35:44,500 don't know. It was like, what just happened? She got a vision. She got the ball. She did 402 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,842 a flip over the scrum and then ran into the goal. I think that's what happened. Okay, that 403 00:35:49,862 --> 00:35:55,045 makes sense. What was interesting is when Maya's powers manifested for the first time. Like 404 00:35:55,485 --> 00:36:00,187 out of all the times in her life that she's endured like life threatening stakes, I wonder 405 00:36:00,207 --> 00:36:05,449 why her echo powers didn't come about then. Maybe it was a proximity thing. I don't know, 406 00:36:05,549 --> 00:36:09,922 maybe. They gave some throwaway line like, oh, the ancestors know when they're needed or something 407 00:36:09,942 --> 00:36:13,506 like that. But it's like, I'm pretty sure that she could have used your help before. Like 408 00:36:13,587 --> 00:36:18,132 maybe when they were about to get hit by a car or something as a kid. Oh, geez. Where were 409 00:36:18,152 --> 00:36:23,899 you then, ancestors? Damn. You know, what's weird is that the stakes at the time when she 410 00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:28,176 got her leg caught in the coupling. That wasn't even life-threatening. She could have disconnected 411 00:36:28,216 --> 00:36:31,879 her leg at the time and just hopped off the train to be picked up by biscuits. The way 412 00:36:31,919 --> 00:36:36,363 she got off the train was the most dangerous way that she could have possibly done it by 413 00:36:36,423 --> 00:36:41,128 leaping off onto the truck, you know? It probably would have been better to just kind of like 414 00:36:41,168 --> 00:36:45,632 tuck and roll as opposed to, you know, trying this insane stunt. No, I'm still wondering 415 00:36:45,792 --> 00:36:51,257 how the frick that happened that like when he slammed on his brakes, she didn't fly forward. 416 00:36:51,754 --> 00:36:55,917 Like when he came to the back and was like, am I am I she just appeared behind the truck? 417 00:36:56,357 --> 00:37:02,161 And I was like, how? When? What? That's a great question. I have no idea. She was just like, 418 00:37:02,181 --> 00:37:07,205 ta da. I was like, all right, bullshit. But OK. I do have to mention one character that 419 00:37:07,225 --> 00:37:11,608 you didn't break down Uncle Henry. I thought he did a fantastic job. I'm not sure of the 420 00:37:11,648 --> 00:37:16,852 actor's name, but he did a great job acting and signing at the same time I noticed. I think 421 00:37:16,872 --> 00:37:22,244 he did better than anyone else in the series. Yeah, Henry was played by Chas Spencer. I think 422 00:37:22,284 --> 00:37:27,308 you're right. It was hard for me to get a grasp on Uncle Henry, honestly, because it was clear 423 00:37:27,428 --> 00:37:31,912 that he cared for Maya, although he really disliked the way she was going about everything. And, 424 00:37:32,012 --> 00:37:35,174 you know, he was really the voice of reason throughout the show, which was interesting 425 00:37:35,214 --> 00:37:39,618 considering he was a career criminal. But absolutely, I agree with everything you just said. His 426 00:37:39,858 --> 00:37:45,383 ability to emote through his signing was kind of a sight to behold. Yeah, I thought the same 427 00:37:45,403 --> 00:37:50,895 thing. Moving on to episode three, which was called Too-Clo. In the late 19th century, a 428 00:37:50,935 --> 00:37:55,659 woman named Tuklo saves her father and other members of the light horsemen native police 429 00:37:55,699 --> 00:38:00,964 force from a band of outlaws by using exceptional marksmanship skills granted by visions of her 430 00:38:01,064 --> 00:38:07,129 ancestors, Chaffa and Loek. In the present day, Maya begins seeing visions as well and is kidnapped 431 00:38:07,189 --> 00:38:12,353 by one of her Uncle Henry's employees named Vicky. He calls in Kingpin's men in an attempt 432 00:38:12,393 --> 00:38:17,774 to collect the bounty on Maya's head and also captures Henry and Maya's cousin Bonnie. When 433 00:38:17,814 --> 00:38:22,556 the Kingpin's men arrive, Maya escapes confinement and attacks them, though they get the upper 434 00:38:22,616 --> 00:38:28,319 hand in the end by holding Bonnie hostage. Before Maya's execution, the Kingpin's men get a call 435 00:38:28,399 --> 00:38:33,482 telling them to leave her alive, and they leave. Returning home, Maya is approached by the Kingpin, 436 00:38:33,902 --> 00:38:40,985 who reveals that he's still alive. Dude, talk about Deus Ex Machina. That was like, I hated 437 00:38:41,025 --> 00:38:45,847 that. It kind of ruins the entire stakes of the fight that you just witnessed, right? I 438 00:38:45,887 --> 00:38:50,288 mean, that was a great action scene, I thought, at least in the beginning. But when she started 439 00:38:50,308 --> 00:38:56,090 to like using the arcade shooter guns as whips and throwing skee balls at everybody, I was 440 00:38:56,110 --> 00:39:01,992 like, hmm, maybe not. But other than that, I thought the action fight was spectacular. I 441 00:39:02,032 --> 00:39:05,573 really like the choreography. I really like the camera work. It was just really well done. 442 00:39:06,073 --> 00:39:10,511 I liked the booby traps she set up. I don't get like some of the devices that she was able 443 00:39:10,631 --> 00:39:16,134 to make, like that gun that she made. Oh, yeah, that was stupid. I was like, what? How? How 444 00:39:16,154 --> 00:39:21,517 did you make that fast? She was channeling the abilities of a fellow Native American superhero, 445 00:39:21,657 --> 00:39:27,801 Forge. Oh, nice. Yeah, you didn't know that. He's one of her ancestors is part of her abilities. 446 00:39:27,821 --> 00:39:32,884 No, yeah, that was weird. I don't understand how you can make a bearing shooting device 447 00:39:33,004 --> 00:39:38,003 out of a roller skate. Just doesn't seem possible. Yeah. This is the episode where she got the 448 00:39:38,203 --> 00:39:43,147 special shin guard by Scully. I thought Scully was going to include something special, like 449 00:39:43,167 --> 00:39:48,292 a secret gadget or something within the shin guard. But that never really amounted to anything 450 00:39:48,432 --> 00:39:52,736 within the rest of the series. They certainly made it seem important, but it ended up not 451 00:39:52,776 --> 00:39:57,960 meaning much outside of its cultural representation. I was thinking the same thing. Like they had 452 00:39:57,980 --> 00:40:04,125 the perfect opportunity to make Scully Maya's Q as it were, like, you know, her gadget guy. 453 00:40:04,746 --> 00:40:08,254 I'm really surprised they didn't follow through with that. Yeah, that would have been cool. 454 00:40:08,695 --> 00:40:13,246 That's what I was expecting. He was even like, oh, I need time to work on this. Well, what 455 00:40:13,326 --> 00:40:13,747 for? 456 00:40:16,750 --> 00:40:22,072 I have no idea. You need to put some like, I don't know, tear gas spray cartridges in there. 457 00:40:22,192 --> 00:40:27,454 Something cool. Yeah, a knife or something. At the very least, a knife. She already has 458 00:40:27,574 --> 00:40:32,837 one in her shoe. Put one in her shin guard. There you go. Episode four was called Taloa. 459 00:40:33,537 --> 00:40:39,620 In 2008, Kingpin brutally beats an ice cream vendor for mocking Maya for being deaf, an 460 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:45,427 act that she witnesses and participates in by kicking him. In 2021. Kingpin offers a final 461 00:40:45,467 --> 00:40:50,110 lesson to Maya for working for him, that they can only trust each other and has his American 462 00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:55,675 sign language interpreter killed. In the present, Kingpin uses augmented reality tech to communicate 463 00:40:55,695 --> 00:41:00,519 with Maya and tell her that if she returns to him in New York, he will give her his criminal 464 00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:06,084 empire. He gives her a day to decide before leaving, and Maya is taken to visit her grandmother 465 00:41:06,144 --> 00:41:11,788 Chula. There, Chula reveals that their ancestors, which can be traced back to Chafa, help their 466 00:41:11,808 --> 00:41:17,356 family when they need it the most. echoing through the generations. Maya leaves in anger, however, 467 00:41:17,396 --> 00:41:22,640 due to feeling abandoned as a child. Chula then begins working on a special garment for Maya. 468 00:41:23,060 --> 00:41:28,024 Maya visits Kingpin with the intent to kill him, which he encourages just as he killed 469 00:41:28,064 --> 00:41:33,047 his father. He asks Maya again to come back to New York, but she ends up fleeing Tamaha 470 00:41:33,367 --> 00:41:38,431 and raging him. I thought this was another great flashback intro. The intros were actually some 471 00:41:38,471 --> 00:41:43,194 of my favorite parts of this season. Every episode began with a flashback. Yeah, yeah, that was 472 00:41:43,234 --> 00:41:49,136 cool. It kind of gave some insight as to why Kingpin took a liking to Maya in that she kind 473 00:41:49,176 --> 00:41:54,537 of displayed a little bit of his same anger and brutality towards that ice cream guy. Yeah, 474 00:41:54,837 --> 00:42:00,499 the whole sign language interpretation technology, I thought, was kind of interesting in concept, 475 00:42:00,539 --> 00:42:07,101 but totally unnecessary given that Maya can read lips. Can't she? Like, I wasn't sure if 476 00:42:07,121 --> 00:42:11,703 she could throughout this entire series. Well, she's supposed to be able to, like that's her 477 00:42:11,763 --> 00:42:17,106 whole freaking power in the comic books. You know, she has incredible visual acuity. So 478 00:42:17,306 --> 00:42:23,350 really all Kingpin would need was some kind of tech that could interpret ASL. She wouldn't 479 00:42:23,370 --> 00:42:28,873 really need the contact lens. Yeah, he could put the contact in his own damn eye. Yeah, 480 00:42:28,893 --> 00:42:33,936 just replace his eyeball. Exactly. Although I think it was maybe insinuating that the contact 481 00:42:33,976 --> 00:42:38,267 lens was also a tracker. I don't know. What I do want to know though is why didn't she 482 00:42:38,327 --> 00:42:42,690 kill Kingpin at the end of this episode when he gave her the opportunity? Is it because 483 00:42:42,730 --> 00:42:48,174 she had a change of heart on wanting him dead or something? But like if so, why? Because 484 00:42:48,254 --> 00:42:53,778 he was kind of family and you know some part of her didn't want to betray his trust, I guess? 485 00:42:54,338 --> 00:42:57,700 But she was gonna betray his trust by fleeing, you know? If she didn't want to betray his 486 00:42:57,761 --> 00:43:02,424 trust, take him up on his offer and rule the criminal underworld out of sight as the Queenpin. 487 00:43:02,544 --> 00:43:07,463 Just a bizarre series of choices that she made here. Yeah, I mean, but I think it was just 488 00:43:07,503 --> 00:43:12,827 kind of hinting at her heroic streak in a way that she realized that she didn't have it in 489 00:43:12,887 --> 00:43:17,830 her to kill him. I guess, I don't know, because she's definitely killed before. She's a complicated 490 00:43:17,870 --> 00:43:22,353 character. Yeah, at that point, it kind of became clear that she doesn't really know what she 491 00:43:22,413 --> 00:43:27,917 wants. And the whole journey that she goes through in the series is basically figuring that out 492 00:43:27,957 --> 00:43:34,474 for herself. Right, yeah. Episode five was called Maya. In a flashback to Maya's childhood, She 493 00:43:34,514 --> 00:43:39,036 witnesses her mother use her healing powers to mend a woodpecker that she had injured with 494 00:43:39,056 --> 00:43:43,858 a slingshot. In the present, Biscuits reaches out to Maya to tell her that Chula and Bonnie 495 00:43:43,898 --> 00:43:49,781 are missing, prompting Maya to return to Tamaha. At her grandmother's house, she sees a vision 496 00:43:49,861 --> 00:43:55,243 of her mom, Taloa, who tells Maya that she's the descendant of a long line of special women 497 00:43:55,643 --> 00:44:01,370 dating back to Chafa, and that she's never alone before healing Maya's heart of her pain. Maya 498 00:44:01,410 --> 00:44:06,631 dons the outfit her grandmother created before going to the Choctaw Powwow Festival and participates 499 00:44:06,671 --> 00:44:12,353 in it to avoid Kingpin's men while looking for her family. A woodpecker guides Maya to a barn 500 00:44:12,413 --> 00:44:17,935 where she finds Kingpin with Chula and Bonnie held captive. Summoning the power of her ancestors, 501 00:44:18,095 --> 00:44:23,416 Maya shares her powers with her family and they join together to fight Kingpin's men. She takes 502 00:44:23,456 --> 00:44:29,498 Kingpin back to a memory of his childhood and heals his pain. Enraged, He asks her what she 503 00:44:29,518 --> 00:44:34,759 did to him, then flees as the police arrive. The next day, Maya visits her family before 504 00:44:34,799 --> 00:44:40,361 leaving Tamaha. In a post-credit scene, Kingpin watches with interest a news report on the 505 00:44:40,401 --> 00:44:46,963 New York mayoral election. So I have a question. Yeah? Did Maya forget about her mom's superpower, 506 00:44:47,083 --> 00:44:52,525 like as she grew up? I feel like if I saw my mom perform a miracle like killing an injured 507 00:44:52,585 --> 00:44:57,870 bird, I would remember that shit. You know? I almost feel like maybe that wasn't the first 508 00:44:57,910 --> 00:45:02,633 time she saw her mom do that. Maybe that's why she brought it to her mom. Because like, the 509 00:45:02,653 --> 00:45:06,775 little girl didn't seem surprised at all when her mom displayed the power. She was like, 510 00:45:07,315 --> 00:45:13,359 Oh my gosh, what's happening? No. I also want to know why didn't her mom, if she could visit 511 00:45:13,399 --> 00:45:19,190 her as a ghost, heal her pain from her traumatic childhood sooner if she had that ability. Well, 512 00:45:19,230 --> 00:45:24,033 maybe because she was finally getting full access to her ancestors and maybe like her mom was 513 00:45:24,153 --> 00:45:28,836 the last one that she was able to gain access to. Maybe that's the reason. There's a lot 514 00:45:28,876 --> 00:45:34,220 of assumptions that are going on here. Also, I didn't know quite how to describe how Bonnie 515 00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:39,203 and Chula got their abilities, whether or not that was Maya sharing it with them or if they 516 00:45:39,303 --> 00:45:43,986 also have the ability to tap into the power of their ancestors. That was unclear. Well, 517 00:45:44,006 --> 00:45:50,042 they have the same ancestors. So I figured that was the reason why. So basically you have a 518 00:45:50,082 --> 00:45:56,788 whole line of Choctaw women who are superheroes. Every woman is a superhero, Joseph. Every woman. 519 00:45:57,168 --> 00:46:02,232 Right, I forgot about that, sorry. The end fight was horrible. Like I almost did a spit take 520 00:46:02,252 --> 00:46:09,317 when I saw Chula punching bad guys. And again, I just really don't like the ambiguity regarding 521 00:46:09,378 --> 00:46:14,381 what happened to Kingpin. Like if he's cured of his pain regarding his traumatic childhood. 522 00:46:14,786 --> 00:46:20,749 Does that mean that he's now without evil ambition? If so, does that not contradict the look on 523 00:46:20,789 --> 00:46:26,032 his face when he's considering running for mayor? Is he in fact going to be a good mayor? What's 524 00:46:26,052 --> 00:46:29,694 gonna happen there? Yeah, that's a fantastic question. I guess we won't know the answer 525 00:46:29,714 --> 00:46:36,718 to that until Daredevil born again. But I do think that her healing camp was the most anti-climactic 526 00:46:36,738 --> 00:46:42,754 shit I've ever seen in my life. For sure, yeah. If Kingpin ends up still being like a a piece 527 00:46:42,794 --> 00:46:47,438 of shit dude in Daredevil Born Again. I'm going to wonder what the hell happened here. Yeah, 528 00:46:47,478 --> 00:46:53,623 I guess Echo's powers are useless. Yeah, like I'm unclear as to what exactly she heals, because 529 00:46:53,643 --> 00:46:59,228 like her mom healed the physical body of the hummingbird. And I guess Echo physically healed 530 00:46:59,288 --> 00:47:05,053 Kingpin's eye. When you do it over the heart, was it also psychological or spiritual or I 531 00:47:05,313 --> 00:47:10,337 don't know? I think it's emotional. I think it's emotional healing. When I get that feeling. 532 00:47:10,702 --> 00:47:18,103 I need a emotional healing. There you go. Emotional healing. Yeah, we'll say the ending was quite 533 00:47:18,144 --> 00:47:22,585 as bad as the cop out that She-Hulk did, where, you know, she broke the fourth wall and completely 534 00:47:22,665 --> 00:47:27,266 circumvented the entire conflict that whole series was building toward. But this is still 535 00:47:27,286 --> 00:47:31,467 a pretty bad ending. So I guess the best thing you can say about the show is that it's somewhat 536 00:47:31,507 --> 00:47:35,928 better than She-Hulk. Yeah. And that brings us to, you know, my final rating. You know, 537 00:47:35,988 --> 00:47:42,435 we rated She-Hulk two stars. This was better than that. I actually enjoyed Secret Invasion 538 00:47:42,535 --> 00:47:48,338 season 1 more than Echo, so I'm going in between there. While Echo season 1 is a fascinating 539 00:47:48,418 --> 00:47:53,241 insight into several underrepresented groups, the story is threadbare and the hero is just 540 00:47:53,321 --> 00:48:00,305 too one-dimensional for much enjoyment. So I'm rating it 2.5 stars, a rotten rating on Rotten 541 00:48:00,325 --> 00:48:04,607 Tomatoes. Because at the end of the day, I don't think I would recommend the show, I think you'll 542 00:48:04,627 --> 00:48:08,850 be disappointed by it no matter what type of Marvel fan you are. Yeah I- I guess I would 543 00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:13,993 agree. I think I liked it a little bit more than you did, not by much though. Like I might 544 00:48:14,013 --> 00:48:19,736 be willing to give this three stars maybe, but right around that ballpark. I think you hit 545 00:48:19,756 --> 00:48:24,579 the nail on the head early on in the review when you said that you're not sure who will 546 00:48:24,619 --> 00:48:30,062 be satisfied by a series like this. I think ultimately the only reason to watch it is if 547 00:48:30,102 --> 00:48:34,744 you know, Echo ever joins the Avengers and you want to find out how she got her cool new costume. 548 00:48:35,145 --> 00:48:38,938 The costume was cool. I'll say that. But that does it for this review. Let us know what you 549 00:48:38,958 --> 00:48:45,962 guys thought about Echo Season 1 by writing to us at dyna or by visiting us on Instagram, 550 00:48:46,322 --> 00:48:50,485 which you can find a link to on our show notes or by visiting our website, dynamicduel.com. 551 00:48:51,565 --> 00:48:55,527 And on our site, you could also find a link to our Patreon page, where you could join our 552 00:48:55,587 --> 00:49:00,950 dynamic duo tier and chat with us and fellow listeners, our fantastic four tier, which gets 553 00:49:00,990 --> 00:49:06,313 you bonus content each month, our X-Force tier that makes you an executive producer of this 554 00:49:06,353 --> 00:49:12,484 podcast. or our newest tier that lets you join our Dynamike Podcast Network. Please guys, 555 00:49:12,504 --> 00:49:17,906 don't forget to rate the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, or on our website. In our 556 00:49:18,006 --> 00:49:23,649 next episode, we're going to start a series of multiversal duels as a tie-in to our review 557 00:49:23,669 --> 00:49:28,871 of Crisis on Infinite Earths, and in lead-up to Madam Web that's coming near the end of 558 00:49:28,911 --> 00:49:36,640 February, we will be pitting Ultraman against Hyperion. Yeah, Ultraman being the Earth three 559 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:42,404 version of Superman, who's basically an evil version of Superman versus Hyperion, who is 560 00:49:42,464 --> 00:49:46,908 the leader of the Squadron Supreme, which is basically like an authoritarian version of 561 00:49:46,928 --> 00:49:53,193 the Justice League in Marvel. So two evil, multiversal Superman, who's gonna win? We're gonna find 562 00:49:53,233 --> 00:49:57,295 out next week. But that does it for this episode, we want to give a big thanks to our executive 563 00:49:57,335 --> 00:50:01,956 producers Ken Johnson, John Storowski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Belcombe, Mickey Mathengian, 564 00:50:02,116 --> 00:50:07,578 Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Nick Obanto, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Duckerley, 565 00:50:07,798 --> 00:50:12,980 Scott Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Schunk, and Dean Molesky for helping make this podcast 566 00:50:13,020 --> 00:50:18,302 possible. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. Why did the 567 00:50:18,382 --> 00:50:20,583 Echo get detention? It kept talking back.