This is a DynaMic Network podcast.
This is the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate
the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations.
I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, as a tie-in to our
last episode, which was a team duel between the Legion of Doom and the Masters of Evil,
we are doing a review of the DC animated film which features the Legion of Doom as the main
villainous cast. Yeah, it is a solid movie. It was my first time seeing it the other day.
And yeah, we'll talk more about it later on this episode. Before that, we're going to break
down the comic book news from the past week, of which we got some doozies. We learned that
the Batman 2 release date has been pushed back from 2025 a year to 2026. The Venom sequel
title and new release date has been announced and. DC Studios is working on a live action
Teen Titans film. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free
to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially
intelligent duel simulator AJ9K has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why
hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of
the dynamic duel community on Patreon, where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic
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where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel and DC subjects. The X-Force tier makes
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graphic support and consultation and get you simulation results to announce on your show.
Pitch the twins your show via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by reaching out to them on
social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamicduel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ9K,
and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast, including Dustin Belkum, whose birthday was
this past week. Happy birthday, if I could get you one gift from Marvel. Have I given away
Thor's hammer yet, Mjolnir? I'm sure you have. Well, I'm giving it away again, because whoever
I gave it to before is no longer worthy, so we'll see if Dustin's worthy to wield it. I'm
sure he is, because he likes Marvel. No DC fan can lift that shit. And from DC, I'm gonna
get you... The Batmobile, specifically the one from The Batman. Cause you know you like that
shit, Dustin. You know you like it. No, it was boring. Time will prove you guys wrong. Guys,
be sure to tune into the Dynamic Podcast Network this week, which includes Max Destruction,
a show that pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other.
This week, they're gonna find out who's gonna win between Haru from Beverly Hills Ninja and
Sho Nuff from The Last Dragon. That's gonna be a great episode. I loved those movies as
a kid. Looking forward to that episode. On the Sanjo World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates
on fights between fan favorite anime characters. This Thursday, we'll find out who would win
between Hisoka Marou from Hunter and Joker from Fire Force. I bet you nailed those pronunciations
again. Marou? Maroo? Something like that. On the Console Combat podcast, host John and Dean
find out who would win in fights between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode...
They found out who'd win between Michael DeSanta from Grand Theft Auto and Max Payne. Visit
dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in
the DynaMic Podcast Network. But with that out of the way, quick to the No Prize! A No
Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize,
is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer
to our question of the week. Last week we asked, what is your favorite DC or Marvel video game
and why? We got quite a few answers so let's go ahead and run down our honorable mentions
as well as the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Travis Bailey who said, Travis
Bailey, so the first thing that popped into my head, I'm a little older than y'all, you
know, I'm pen and paper, you know, in case you find a one at the mall years old, so I automatically
thought of X-Men the arcade game. And I've wasted so much of my time, like probably years out
of my life with a pocket full of quarters. And this is the quintessential co-op game. I mean,
it's the gold standard of that genre. Man, if you wasted years of your life on that game
with just a pocket full of quarters, then you are doing far better than the rest of us, my
friend, because Jonathan and I used to play that game all the time. We'd go to Boardwalk
USA and play that game. I remember. And I was dying all the time. Yeah, same. But also like.
If you're saying you wasted years of your life playing the X-Men arcade game, I would say
those are years well spent, my friend, because that game is awesome. That game is really awesome.
Definitely one of the quintessential arcade games from the early nineties up there with,
you know, Captain America and the Avengers, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game, the
Simpsons arcade game. Like all of those had pretty much a similar gameplay style and were
ubiquitous at almost every arcade across the nation. Yeah. Like the side scroller. Great
answer, Travis. Our next honorable mention goes to. Leo Roth who said, Hey guys, uh, it's Leo
Roth, long time listener, first time recording, but the best superhero video game by far is
Spider-Man 2 on the GameCube. The swinging mechanics are great, story is great, and I just love
it so much. It's really, really good. And that new Spider-Man 2, that's not good. Just this
one. Honorable mention, Ultimate Spider-Man on the GameCube. It's like a- playing through
a real life comic. Now, Leo Roth sounds a little bit young to be playing a game so old, but
he is no less correct. Spider-Man 2, which was an adaptation of the movie, Spider-Man 2, when
it came out in 2004, for the GameCube was incredible. It was a game that kind of pioneered the swinging
mechanics that we know and love today. And I played the shit out of that game nonstop while
listening to Dashboard Confessional and the entire Spider-Man 2 soundtrack. Those were
great times. Leo also mentioned Ultimate Spider-Man for the GameCube. And Leo, if you have a GameCube,
you also gotta check out Hulk Ultimate Destruction because that is still one of the best Hulk
games that ever came out. The GameCube was just a great era. Oh yeah, there was a Batman Begins
video game that came out on the GameCube. That was the closest thing to like a good Batman
game, like a Splinter Cell stealth type video game that we had until, you know, the Arkham
games. Great answer, Leo. Our next honorable mention goes to... Caleb Volk who said, Hey
guys, Caleb Volk, long time listener, first time answering. I think the 2018 Spider-Man
game is the best game Marvel or DC's ever come out with just because of the storyline with
Doctor. And Caleb actually got cut off in his answer, but his answer of 2018 Spider-Man is,
you know, top notch. It is highly regarded as one of the best, if not the best superhero
video game of all time. really puts you in the driver's seat of being the character of Spider-Man
with incredible cinematics, an incredible story, incredible gameplay, great everything. Yeah,
I would have argued that the Arkham games are the best superhero video games until I heard
from DC fans on our Discord server that no, actually, Spider-Man is probably a little bit
better. So I guess I'll concede that. Yeah, that's a great point. Actually, that brings
us to the winner of this week's No Prize. who also gave a Marvel answer, meaning that we
have no DC answers because all DC video games suck. Looking at you, Suicide Squad killed
the Justice League. Damn it! But the winner is Ed Jones. Who said? What's up guys? This
is Ed Jones here with my favorite DC and Marvel game and I have to give it to Marvel Ultimate
Alliance 2. Baby, it is one of the best RPGs I've played. You can play it with three of
your buddies and it goes through one of the best Marvel storylines. The Civil War? Oh,
come on! How can you beat that? You just make your own team and you go through the world
destroying things. I absolutely love it. Yeah, fantastic answer with Marvel Ultimate Alliance
2. Actually, we had Travis Herndon call in with the first Marvel Ultimate Alliance, but I think
the sequel kind of took everything great from the original and kind of expanded on it, you
know, increased the roster and gave it a better storyline, adapting the Civil War plot from
the comics. Fantastic answer. I remember getting a PlayStation just to play this game and it
was so much fun. I remember playing X-Men Legends, which is one of the first action RPG superhero
games of that kind to come out. And I remember just thinking that I wish that they could expand
this gameplay from just the X-Men to the larger Marvel universe as a whole. And they did exactly
that. And yeah, to this day, Marvel Ultimate Alliance remains one of the best Marvel video
games ever. Yeah, I remember we got that PlayStation so that I could also play Justice League Heroes,
which is like the DC version of the Ultimate Alliance games. Yeah, that game was like a
lesser version of Ultimate Alliance. Justice League Heroes didn't get that much fanfare,
if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's because there's so much DC bias out there in the world.
So much DC prejudice. Yeah, people are totally prejudiced against things that suck, for sure.
Fuck you.
If anyone still has a PlayStation 2, definitely pick up Justice League Heroes. It's a good
game. It's good. But great answer, Ed Jones. You win this week's No Prize. If you, the listener,
want a shot at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on in this episode, when we'll
be asking another question of the week. And now that that's done, onto the news.
Okay, so this past week we've learned that the Batman sequel, just tentatively titled The
Batman 2 for now, was pushed back a whole year from October 25 to October 2nd of 2026. Now
the original film came out two years ago in 2022, so there will be a four-year gap between
the two films. Which isn't terrible, like I remember when we used to have to wait a lot
longer for sequels. But too long for me because I really liked the first movie. Yeah, it's
like a news for DC fans that enjoyed the first The Batman movie. I hate calling it that, by
the way. But I mean, at least they'll have shows like The Penguin in the interim, which is supposed
to come out later on this year. Yeah, we don't actually have a solid release date for The
Penguin show yet. Hopefully it comes out this year. Odds are it will, because they've been
filming it for quite some time. And it'll be a nice holdover until we get. Batman sequel.
And honestly, if that show is not good, I feel like that's going to like really hamper expectations
for the Batman sequel, which would not be great. Now, a lot of people are saying that this is
to give more breathing room for James Gunn's Superman movie so that they don't release in
the same year. I don't know if I believe that. I kind of hoped that they were coming out in
the same year, because it would have been really cool to have both a Superman and Batman film
in 2025. I just think that the script isn't ready yet and they're not ready to start filming
so they had to push it back. And they want to keep their October release date because Warner
Brothers has had quite a lot of success for their films that released in October. Of course
this year in October they're releasing the Joker sequel, Folly Ado, hoping to recapture the
success of the first Joker film, which also released in October and made a billion dollars.
By the time the Batman 2 comes out, Robert Panson will be around... 39 years old, totally old
enough to be a bat dad, which makes you think that he should just probably have his own kid
and Damien Wayne in the Batman franchise and then, you know, just be the DCU version of
Batman that James Gunn is putting in his franchise. Well, in the articles that announced the Batman's
pushed release date, they also mentioned that James Gunn and Peter Safran, the two heads
of DC Studios, mentioned that a separate actor will be cast for their Batman and Robin film
Brave and the Bold, which was announced last with Andy Muschietti directing. So that's kind
of heartbreaking because I was really hoping that with Matt Reeves developing an Arkham
series for James Gunn's DCU that meant he was one step closer to assimilating Robert Pattinson
Batman into James Gunn's universe. But as for right now, that looks like it's not the case.
Yeah, the Batman will stay strictly as an Elseworlds franchise. So that's stupid, but not as stupid
as our next news item. I'm not gonna disagree with you. This last week we learned that the
Venom sequel, Venom 3, has moved up its release date from November 8th of this year, 2024,
to October 25th. So a few weeks up. And we learned that the movie is going to be called Venom
The Last Dance. Which is so dumb. Why? So dumb. Like what the hell does that have to do with
Venom? Like I remember when they released the title for the second movie in the franchise,
which is Venom Let There Be Carnage. And you and I were complaining because we felt it should
have been called Maximum Carnage or Absolute Carnage or something like that. Like Let There
Be Carnage was just way too cumbersome. The Last Dance is not cumbersome, but it is really,
really dumb. And my main complaint with the character of Venom in the Let There Be Carnage
sequel is that the franchise seemed to really... lean heavily into the goofier side of the Venom
character. And with a title like the last dance for a character like Venom, who is this freaky,
scary, alien symbiote monster, the Spider-Man villain, it just seems like a joke, right?
They're like, they're making the character a joke. Once again, I don't have high hopes for
the movie. Well, I'm kind of surprised by that, honestly, considering that the humorous aspect
of Venom, you said was one that you really liked about the character and the first movie. Well,
yeah, I like this version of having a character that looks like venom occasionally cracking
jokes in moderation. You know, when he's going to fucking raves and watching soap operas and
raising chickens and stuff, it gets to be a little bit cartoonish. Famously, The Last Dance
is also known as the title of a Michael Jordan documentary. So I wonder if there's any kind
of tie in there. I think it's more accurately referencing the Donna Summer song, Last Dance.
But also, back in November, Tom Hardy did put out an Instagram post when they started filming
Venom 3 that had the caption of, The Last Dance. Thankfully, we're back to shooting. So I don't
know if the marketing team decided to name the movie after Tom Hardy's Instagram caption or
if Tom Hardy was just giving people a peek into what the title of the movie would be back in
November. Either way. It sucks. It really makes you wonder what the hell is Sony doing? Like,
are they trying to fail? They're trying to piss me off is what I think they're trying to do.
Everyone, everyone is trying to piss everyone off. No one likes this. Yeah. What are they
doing? It's so crazy that Madame Web came out about a month ago, and I already own it on
home video. You know, yes, I bought it, but that's because I buy every Marvel movie. But
yeah, like the movie did so bad at the box office. I feel like Craven is also not gonna do great
and I also think that Venom 3 is not gonna do great. And of course, all three of these films
are releasing this year. That's insane. Yeah, what the hell is Sony doing? Because Craven
the Hunter comes out August 30th and then yeah, just a few months later, you have Venom the
Last Dance, which actually comes out just a few weeks after Joker Follyadoo. Yeah, that
was the part that kind of pissed me off actually. It's... Like Sony's trying to bite into Joker's
box office with another comic book movie. But it's not going to work, Sony. It's the fucking
Joker. No one gives a shit about Venom. Except remember that the Joker is a musical, and that
just sounds weird, too. People need to get over that. Joker, the musical, Venom apparently
will have a dance number, I'm guessing. It's all just weird. If I see Venom dancing. to
Donna Summer's Last Dance, I'm gonna walk out of the theater. I'll sit through it, but I
will comment on it in our review for sure. But the news about this subtitle for the Venom
3 movie brings us to our question of the week.
What Marvel or DC film do you think had the best subtitle and why? And I swear to God if
you answer, and the fantabulous emancipation of one Harley Quinn for the Birds of Prey movie,
we are throwing your response into the fire. I mean I don't know, it's still not as bad
as The Last Dance. I don't know about that. I do! But guys go ahead and record your answer
at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the
screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds
long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick
our favorite answer and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that we'll post to Instagram.
Be sure to answer before March 23rd. In our final bit of news, we learned that a live action
Teen Titans movie is in development at DC Studios. Apparently, it's being written by the same
writer who wrote Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow,
not sure about the pronunciation of her last name, but it's exciting to hear that they really
like her as a writer and are bringing her on another DC project. I've heard that the Supergirl
Woman of Tomorrow script is fantastic, according to James Gunn. Of course, he may not be the
most unbiased of sources there, but as the head of the studio, you gotta imagine that when
a project excites him enough to comment on it on social media and announce that to the world,
it's gotta be pretty good. I mean, the whole the studio having faith in the script doesn't
really mean anything, considering the writer of Birds of Prey, Christina Hodson, wrote multiple
DC movies. Yeah, she also wrote The Flash, which James Gunn also said was one of the best superhero
movies he had ever seen. So I don't know, maybe I shouldn't put too much faith in this new
writer. But damn it, I gotta, I gotta, because both projects sound really cool. I've always
wanted to see a live action Teen Titans movie. I think the film will do gangbusters because
a lot of people like Teen Titans, whether it's the Teen Titans cartoon or Teen Titans Go.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what roster they come up with here. Maybe they'll even
include Jaime Reyes' Blue Beetle. You never know. I wonder if they're going to include
whoever plays Robin in the Brave and the Bold movie. Like if Damien's going to be part of
the Titans. You have to imagine that they would. Considering that Brave and the Bold... is supposed
to come out before the Teen Titans movie. So you're just assuming that Nightwing doesn't
exist and that Damien will be Batman's first Robin in this universe? No, I'm assuming Nightwing
does exist, but they're not going to start with his history as the character of Robin. I believe
that James Gunn's DC Universe is going to be one that's fully established. And we're not
going to get too many superhero origins. So why not just include Nightwing in the Teen
Titans movie as opposed to Damien? I mean, you could. You absolutely could. You can make this
more of like a Titans film with like Donna Troy and Wally West. I think that would be really
cool too. Actually, I would prefer that because you have to imagine that they're not going
to do too many sidekick characters, like the very first iteration of the Teen Titans, because
not all of the mentors that the sidekicks belong to will have been established on screen by
the time this movie is made, I imagine. So characters like Raven, Starfire, Cyborg, Beast Boy make
more sense to me. For sure. Yeah. but no word on a director or a release date or anything
else besides the writer yet, but we will keep you guys informed when we find out.
That does it for all the news for this episode. Now let's move on to the main event where we
review the DC animated film, Justice League Doomsday.
Alright, Justice League Doom is a 2012 animated direct-to-video feature written by Dwayne McDuffie
and featuring a voice cast largely taken from the popular Justice League animated series.
It's an adaptation of a very popular JLA storyline named Tower of Babel written by Mark Waid and
published in the year 2000. This storyline came out right around the time I first started collecting
DC Comics. And to this day, it's one of my favorite JLA storylines ever. If you haven't seen the
movie or are not familiar with the Tower of Babel storyline, here's your spoiler warning
as I'll be going into details of both for this review. So Tower of Babel was a storyline from
the comics that spun out of a mini-series titled Silver Age, also written by Mark Waid, also
released in the year 2000, that recounted the story of an alien named Agamemno that swapped
the minds of DC's heroes and villains during the Silver Age of comics, allowing the villains
to not only use the heroes powers, but also learn their secret identities. The villain's
memories were later erased, but that retcon to Silveridge continuity of the Justice League's
history resulted in Batman being wise or paranoid enough to devise and record secret fail safes
to defeat each member of the Justice League of America. In the comics, those plans were
stolen by the villain Ra's al Ghul. who planned on getting the Justice League out of the way
in order to prevent them from foiling his ultimate plan of stirring worldwide chaos by preventing
anyone from reading, which would allow him to orchestrate an atomic war between two nations.
Okay. Right off the bat, I see the pros and cons to having Ra's al Ghul as the villain
compared to the Legion of Doom. One of the pros of having Ra's al Ghul is that you have his
League of Assassins basically taking down the Justice League, which seems more impressive
on its own right. But on the other hand, in this film, what I really like is that you got
really great superhero action because you had the Justice League heroes individuelly going
up against their greatest villains. Right. And you can't really ask for better than that,
you know? No, I totally agree. I think the Legion of Doom is much, much more compelling. And
it's one of several ways in which Justice League Doom improves upon the Tower of Babel storyline,
despite being a condensed version of it. Not only is Vandal Savage, in my opinion, a better
version of Ra's al Ghul in regards to the whole immortality angle, but characters like Bane,
Mirror Master, and Star Sapphire are obviously more interesting than nameless ninjas from
the comics. In fact, I'd say the roster of the Legion of Doom is one of the more interesting
things about this film and how well Dwayne McDuffie was expertly able to generate genuine conflict
and interest by the very nature of the villains he chose. Like this wasn't a team of Lex Luthor
and Joker and Sinestro like the traditional Legion of Doom, but villains who could genuinely
damage the heroes on multiple levels with the help of none other than Batman himself, adding
fuel to the idea that, hey, maybe Batman really is the most powerful superhero in DC Comics.
And this storyline specifically kind of poses that question. It definitely did amongst comic
fans in the early 2000s. Yeah, in regards to the roster of the Legion of Doom here, I was
impressed. going into the show. I guess I was a little bit disappointed because it seemed
like the roster that you had chosen, even for our team duel that we did last week, was so
much better, you know? Because it had people like Brainiac and stuff like that. And this
team at first glance seemed less interesting, but it really wasn't. No. It was a fantastic
roster. And I remember thinking like, oh man, Jonathan should have gone with some of these
guys. Well, some of them haven't actually been a part of the Legion of Doom in the comics.
Really the only one that had been was Cheetah. But no, I agree with you. Like having Brainiac
on this team would have definitely not made the film as personal as it was. Like you couldn't
have done the whole scene atop the daily planet with Brainiac as opposed to Metallo. It seemed
that Rostro was handpicked by Vandal Savage for their unique ability to pose a specific
lethal threat to the heroes. Exactly. Like if you're going to go up against Superman, go
with the Kryptonite guy, right? Exactly. As opposed to, you know, someone like Toyman,
you know? And if you're going to go up against Batman... Use the guy who broke his fucking
back. Right, exactly. Yeah. Common sense. Now, of course, one of the biggest draws for this
film, as you mentioned, is the action, which takes up over half of the film. I'd say that
there's more action in this film than story, which is why I'm sure it's pretty popular among
comic fans. The film currently sits at 100 percent fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes and an 87 percent
audience score, which damn, I mean, in I assume we're going to give this a fresh rating on
Rotten Tomatoes. You're going to recommend the movie. So that number is going to stay at 100.
Yeah. Yep. Maybe you should give this a rotten rating just to, you know, mess with the score.
Fuck no. I have integrity, bro, as a Rotten Tomatoes critic. Now, the action is pretty
good. But I do have to say that the animation style feels fairly dated to me now. Like after
films like Justice League, Flashpoint Paradox, which came out the year after this. and the
new Tomorrowverse films, I don't really miss the Bruce Tim style of animation, which I know
is blasphemy. I will say, though, that while I didn't think the animation was all that great,
the character designs, particularly the villains, were fantastic. Like Bane's never looked sleeker.
Mattello's never looked cooler. Mirror Master's translucent body was just awesome. Yeah, that
was cool. Star Sapphire was hot and Vandal Savage was like regal. It was all fantastic, including
for heroes like Cyborg and Martian Manhunter. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the animation was
just a notch above what the Saturday Morning animated cartoon was. Right. To my knowledge,
though, this doesn't play within the same continuity as the Justice League cartoon, even though
it's the same cast. Yeah, they brought in a lot of the same voice cast. But you're right.
It's a separate universe here. But speaking of the heroes, let's talk more about them in
our character breakdown. Now, Batman. and Bruce Wayne, were voiced by Kevin Conroy, the late,
great Kevin Conroy. I'm not sure I could say anything that we haven't said before or that
everyone else does already know. Kevin Conroy sounds exactly like Batman should sound. And
from the opening scene of Batman disregarding Superman's advice to wait to take care of the
Royal Flush Gang, you recognize this kind of contempt that Superman has for his superpowered
teammates, as though he feels that they think he's incapable. This is also evident by banter
from The Flash. When Batman says he's right behind him, Flash scoffs at the notion that
Batman could be anywhere else. It's subtleties like these that show why Batman may have created
plans to destroy the League, and it definitely shows where Dwayne McDuffie, the writer, stands
in the debate over whether what Batman did was right or wrong. In the comic, there's much
more of a drawn-out emotional debate amongst the League members, of whether what Batman
did, you know, think up ways to defeat them, was morally right. And Batman doesn't quit
the team in the end, he straight up gets voted out by his peers. So that's one major deviation
of the source material here. I like that more. Batman choosing to essentially say, you can't
fire me, I quit, helps him keep his badass status a little bit more in this movie. Probably.
But I also think that Batman's a cocky little asshole who deserves to be put in his place
every once in a while. whether or not he is correct in his position that the league should
have fail safes against each other, he doesn't have to be such a fucking dick about it. If
I were the Green Lantern or something like that, as Batman was walking out of the Justice League
watch tower, I'd have been like, nobody likes you, don't let the door hit you on the way
out or something. Holy shit! Just to, you know, like, fuck with him. Cause like nobody said
anything, they just let Batman be a badass, but the dude needs to be brought down a wrong
game every once in a while. Well, he wasn't brought down a rung or put in his place in
the comics either. He actually was told to step out of the room while they voted. And when
the deciding vote came, it was a mystery. They looked outside to let Batman know, and it was
revealed that he already knew how each of them was going to vote and that Superman was going
to be the deciding vote to kick him out. So he was already gone. Lame. He just knew them
that well. OK, he's Batman. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, in this film, Batman's weakness was deemed
to be his emotional attachment to his parents, which is apt. It was the same in the comics,
though Russell Gould didn't bury Bruce alive with their corpses. He threatened to bring
them back to life in a Lazarus pit, which was pretty wild. I actually think what Bane did
in this movie was more badass. Really? Yeah, being buried alive with your parents' corpses,
that's hardcore shit, man. It's very hardcore. I just don't understand. why he left him alive
or didn't like put a giant boulder over the coffin so he couldn't like, you know, punch
his way out of it. Yeah, that's true. Moving on to Superman and Clark Kent, he was voiced
by Tim Daly. I'd argue Tim Daly has a better voice for Superman than any other actor who's
played or voiced the character. He's that good, in my opinion. Tim Daly is the quintessential
Superman, in the same way that Kevin Conroy is the quintessential Batman. The whole cast
here, I think, was about as ideal as you could possibly get as a fan. Uh, for the most part,
yeah yeah. Now almost each of the Justice Leagueers get a great character moment in this film,
and I think one of Superman's best character moments out of any feature film is in Justice
League Doom. It's when he's talking to the recently fired reporter who's threatening to kill himself
atop the Daily Planet building. Some listeners may know that Joseph and I used to be newspaper
reporters for a now-defunct major metropolitan newspaper, which closed just a few years before
this movie first came out. And I remember this scene just hitting home when I first saw it
back in 2012. Just feeling the despair at the notion of journalism dying and Superman's words
about how we can't give up the never-ending battle to fight for truth and justice. It was
just a great scene that I think was inspired by a key moment from the All-Star Superman
comic, which is supposed to be one of the inspirations for James Gunn's Superman movie, so I won't
be surprised if we get a similar scene in the movie. Where he's talking down someone who's
about to jump off a building? Yeah. Now of course, the powerful scene in this movie is punctuated
by the reporter revealing himself to be Mattello and shooting Superman in the chest with a kryptonite
bullet. I did not see that coming the first time I watched this. I was shook. Yeah, how
does Mattello even disguise himself in that way? Well, he's worn fake skin in the past.
Okay. Yeah. Now in the comics, Superman is actually exposed to red kryptonite, which causes his
skin to become transparent, and he absorbs too much solar radiation so that his senses overload
and his power becomes uncontrollable. I like the green kryptonite bullet more, honestly.
Yeah, for sure. It also led to a great point at the end of the film when Superman entrusts
Batman with that same Kryptonite bullet. Kind of showing that, hey, we're kicking you out,
but, you know, you're still my friend. Moving on to Wonder Woman, she was voiced by Susan
Eisenberg. Now honestly, I love this entire voice cast, including Susan Eisenberg, but
I also love the more recent interpretations of Wonder Woman's voice having a European accent.
Back when this movie came out though, I thought Susan Eisenberg's voice was perfect for the
character. Yeah, she was much more all American back in the day, right? Before Gal Gadot's
take. Right. I agree. I also like the more modern take on her character, like Santa Cat's voice
in the tomorrow verse. Right. Or I'm not sure the name of the actress, but the character
and DC superhero girls also has an accent, which I think is just great. Now, Wonder Woman probably
has the least amount of character development in the film. She doesn't have a secret identity
like the others. so she doesn't get that moment of having her life being interrupted by these
attacks. That said, the method with which she was brought down was much better here in the
movie than in the comics, where the nanite simulated reality she was exposed to made her actual
body go comatose, and she battled an anonymous opponent who was her combative equal. In the
movie, having that combatant be Cheetah and every other bystander and authority figure
around her resemble cheetah as well, was borderline horrifying. I mean, imagine just randomly being
taken out by a crazy-eyed Wonder Woman for no reason. She was at like a park when it happened.
She had to have punched a baby in the face. Had to. I guess, I don't know, it was a little
bit weird. You think that she would have snapped out of it, like, realizing there couldn't possibly
be this many cheetahs, somebody's fucking with me. Like- especially when you see cheetah fighting
as cyborg and cyborg is doing things that cheetah can't do you know wonder woman just seemed
dumb i think she was just caught up in the adrenaline and you know cheetah's come out with weird
new powers before so i don't think it was you know out of the realm of possibility but she
was also saying what are you doing wonder woman you know and like not fighting back obviously
so like kicking your ass what the hell Wouldn't Wonder Woman at least be confused by the fact
that some of these cheetah people are running away from her and you know, not wanting to
engage? Uh, maybe. I just think she was really confused. Or she's really dumb. How dare you.
Shut up. Moving on to The Flash, aka Barry Allen. He was voiced by Michael Rosenbaum, who also
played Lex Luthor in the Smallville television series. Now, I've always preferred his voice
for Wally West. He voiced Wally West, the Flash in the Justice League cartoon because he's
fairly comedic, but he does a decent Barry Allen as well. Well, it was almost the same exact
voice. It was exactly the same voice and really the same take on the character to assume sort
of sort of. I would say Barry Allen was a little bit less joking. The Flash typically is now
when this movie came out. I believe it was the first time I had seen Barry Allen in the role
of the Flash. for maybe over a decade on screen. I wasn't used to seeing the Flash as an on
the ground CSI type forensic scientist. So that was a novel angle for its time. By this point
had Barry Allen come back in the new 52? Yes, this film came out a year after the new 52.
Okay. Now the plan to defeat the Flash in this movie was somewhat convoluted, second probably
only to help Jordan's plan of defeat. But I liked it more than what we got in the comics.
You know, there, Flash was shot by a vibra bullet, which sounds like a sex toy. And that caused
him to have seizures at light speed. In the movie, Mirror Master's trap results in a speed-like
scenario, the movie speed, where the Flash can't dip below a certain velocity or else he explodes.
And I thought that was a fantastic concept. That was really cool. I mean, the way that
they got the bomb bolted into his wrist was a little bit convoluted. But the bomb itself
was a fascinating concept. And that really that was the one that I was the most interested
in during the climaxes of each of the characters. And you're wondering who's going to survive
and how are they going to survive and all that stuff. I just remember, like, really wanting
to go back to see what the Flash was doing and Batman's idea to have him vibrate out of the
bomb and embed it into an iceberg, I thought was just brilliant. Honestly, it was the perfect
way to get out of it and something I did not see coming. Yeah, I mean, that's. Part of the
enjoyment of, I would say, a majority of this film is determining, okay, what is so-and-so's
weakness? And now that they're in this trap, how are they going to get out of it? It's fun
stuff to watch. It's essentially each hero's worst nightmare come to life, right? Right.
You're right. And that's the big appeal of this movie is seeing them overcome the most dire
circumstances they'll probably ever face. Yeah. It's pretty unique in how personal it is. No
other film. is really like this. Like usually they all have to band together to face one
single threat. But being put up against their like most personal threats and really effective
threats is pretty novel and pretty cool. Moving on to Green Lantern aka Held Jordan. He was
voiced by Nathan Fillion who will be playing a different live action Green Lantern Guy Gardner
in the upcoming Superman live action movie. I'm looking forward to it. The guy's a great
actor. who can expertly pull off the bravado and strength of Hal Jordan, but also the humor
of Guy Gardner. Now, I remember being somewhat surprised that this cartoon featured Hal Jordan
as opposed to Jon Stewart, because Jon Stewart, of course, was the main Green Lantern in the
Justice League cartoon series, which this film borrowed a lot from. In the comics, Green Lantern
was simply blinded as his weakness, but in the movie, he was cut down to his very core. by
an elaborate trap set up by Star Sapphire using Scarecrow's fear toxin. And it made more sense
thematically to me for Hal Jordan to succumb to fear rather than blindness because it's
the primary thing that he's supposed to be able to overcome to be a Green Lantern. So giving
up that mantle after feeling guilt when a young woman died was pretty tragic. You really got
the sense that Hal truly was afraid that he didn't deserve the power that he wielded with
his ring. I will admit that I first thought Star Sapphire's whole setup was a little weird
until Batman explained the fear toxin angle and then it all made sense. Yeah, absolutely.
I thought that as well. I was like, really? Like Star Sapphire isn't even going to fight
him. She's just going to like show up out of fucking nowhere without explanation to be like,
wow, you really suck, Hal. And he's just gonna be like, yeah, I do. And then drop the ring
like that's so much less compelling than like having a bomb bolted through your wrist like
the flash. You know, right. Like I was like, this is stupid. What are they thinking? But
then when Batman mentioned the fear toxin from the scarecrow, I was like, oh, OK, this it
does work. And they gave the briefest hints of what was going on when he saw this truck
coming at him and it turned into a monster. But then he like blinked and it was a truck
again. Yeah. But you had to really be paying attention to catch that. I do wish they gave
a little bit more backstory as to the history between Hal and Carol and why and how Carol
became a Star Sapphire though. I kind of feel like we have to do a Star Sapphire duel at
some point in the future. Bring it on, for sure. Moving on to Martian Manhunter aka John Jones,
Carl Lumbee's voice performance is perfect for Martian Manhunter and he pulls double duty
in this film uncredited as he was also the voice for Ma'alif'Aq, whom we affectionately refer
to as as Motherfucker on our Discord server. But his supervillain name is Molefic, pronounced
Motherfucker. Now, I love seeing John Jones in this film. I don't think too many people
are familiar with the Martian Manhunter's alter ego, since he's usually resigned to like satellite
duty in the Justice League comics and cartoon. But the guy has a life outside of being a superhero.
The whole dynamic of John's friends wanting to celebrate with him was a great bit of trickery
because you weren't sure where the trap was going to come from. Was it his partner or the
co-worker who had a crush on him? Of course it ended up being some blonde floozy at the
bar and let that be a lesson to everyone. In the comics, it was nanites that converted his
skin to magnesium, but I think the poison sweat secretions that set him on fire were a lot
better. Like, motherfucker is one cold mother- Shut your mouth. What? I'm just talking about
motherfucker? Hahaha.
Yeah, it was horrifying. What I want to know is why didn't Martian Manhunter die? Because
he was literally on fire, screaming his head off for a solid like 15, 20 minutes. Well,
that's a good question. So traditionally in the comics, the fire pain that Martians feel
is psychological. It's not physical pain or physical damage. They are psychically afraid
of fire as a race. It debilitates them, but it's not going to like burn them. Moving briefly
over to Cyborg, he was voiced by Bumper Robinson. I think he did just as good a job with the
character as Kerry Payton from Teen Titans Go personally. This was the cinematic introduction
to Cyborg being on the Justice League, as he had recently been made a member of the team
in the New 52 reboot of DC Comics. He actually proves to be a fairly vital member to the team
in this film, probably the most vital in this adventure. as the Legion of Doom is equipped
with some fairly advanced technology. Vandal Savage mentions that he got the Bat Computer
Decoder from LexCorp, so you have to wonder where he got his other technology. With Marsha
Manhunter on the team, I was a little bit confused because Cyborg did feel a little bit out of
place to me, considering that Aquaman was nowhere to be seen. Yeah, I mean, Aquaman was in the
comic. His weakness was that using a scarecrow toxin, he was made afraid of water. But once
Martian Manhunter got over being on fire, he was able to psychically help Aquaman stop being
afraid. The one villain I want to touch on in our character breakdown is Vandal Savage. He
was voiced by Phil Morris, who does a ton of DC work. He played Martian Manhunter in Smallville,
and he was Dr. Silas Stone in the Doom Patrol series. Now Vandal Savage in this film made
it his goal to cut Earth's population in half. making him essentially like Thanos before Thanos,
clearly showing once again how much Marvel rips off from DC. I'm sorry, but the Infinity Gauntlet
storyline came out way before this movie. Oh yeah. Anyway, to do this, of course, Vandal
was going to use a missile to generate a massive solar flare that would scorch the sunward side
of the planet, though I'm not sure where you'd have to hit to destroy exactly 50% of the population.
It was a pretty unique plan, I think, as was the League's method of stopping it. I want
to know why Vandal Savage even needed the Legion of Doom to pull off this Solar Flare mission.
If he didn't fuck with the League, chances are that they probably wouldn't even been on to
him and his plan. He probably would have pulled it off, considering how hard it was for the
League to actually stop his plan when they knew well in advance when it was going to happen.
What if he just... you know, shot the missile and, you know, no one was the wiser until half
the planet was gone. That seems like it would make more sense. Interesting. I think maybe
he just didn't want to take the chance. Like the missile would have shown up in like Watchtower
space radar. I'm pretty sure. And then what would they have done? Exactly what they already
did. Superman would have gone up and he would have tried to stop the missile, but it would
have, you know, ejected more missiles. And the only thing that would have been different is
that Cyborg wouldn't have had access to the technology that made Earth intangible for the
flare to pass through. Well, I mean, you know, Green Lantern could have also gone with Superman
instead of being distracted by Star Sapphire, though, you know, Superman could have had more
help. He had help with Green Lantern. All Green Lantern could do was create a shield that was
strong enough. No, I mean, at the Sun, though. I'm not buying it. Bitch, just accept it. It's
a story. Why are you getting mad? I don't know. Just admit that Vandal Savage is stupid. Um,
okay. Yeah, sure. All right. Now it's never explained how Vandal Savage knew that Batman
had plans to bring down members of the Justice League, but that's kind of the mystery of Vandal
Savage. Like he's been around so long. He just knows things. His access to information and
resources are essentially his superpower, along with his immortality and brutish strength.
He's another character they'll have to do a duel with someday. Yeah, our executive producer
said we should put him against Sebastian Shaw, but I'm pretty sure Shaw would beat the shit
out of Vandal Savage. You don't know. I mean, Vandal Savage can't die, but he also can't
get superhumanly strong. So we use already superhumanly strong kids like a gorilla type strength. That's
not going to be good enough. OK, let's go ahead and move into our story highlights.
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Batman finds the Royal Flush Gang using advanced technology to steal diamonds. He summons the
aid of the Justice League to Gotham City to bring them down. The hero Cyborg aids the team
in defeating the gang and in analyzing the device that allowed the villainous team to enter the
diamond storage facility by turning walls intangible. With the Royal Flush Gang unable to remember
who gave them the device, the Justice League goes their separate ways for the night. As
Batman returns home in the Batmobile, He glimpses Mirror Master in his rearview mirror, but dismisses
the sighting. I do have one question here. Uh, why does the Batmobile have a rearview mirror
with no rear window? That's a great question. Yeah, you assume he has like a rear camera
as opposed to a rear window. Plot hole for sure. Ruins the whole movie! One star. The fight
against the Royal Flush Gang was a great way to kick off this movie. because it was just
a lot of fun, a great way to show off the characters superpowers and whatnot. And the Royal Flush
Gang, actually I always thought that they made their debut in the Batman Beyond television
series. So to see them here, I was actually surprised. Oh really? No, they've been around
a while. I think they were even in an episode of Justice League, but yeah, they've been around
a while. They're just a cool gimmicky set of supervillains. Very gimmicky, although I liked
that in this version each one had their own specific gimmick, whether an eye laser, or
like razor sharp cards, or brute strength. I think that was pretty unique. After Batman
parks the Batmobile and leaves the Batcave to tend to his wounds, a hologram of Mirror Master
leaves the Batmobile and hacks the Batcomputer, stealing files that contain Batman's contingency
plans on how to incapacitate each member of the Justice League. When Bane, Metallo, Cheetah,
Star Sapphire, and Mothafucka answer an invitation to the Legion of Doom headquarters in the Louisiana
Swamp, they meet the Legion's leader, Vandal Savage, an immortal who offers each of them
generous rewards if they use his stolen plans to bring down the Justice League. The Legion
of Doom headquarters was a nice homage to the Super Friends cartoon. Right. Yeah. Not only
was it in the swamp, not only did it look- Kind of like Darth Vader's head, but even the sitting
chamber was reminiscent of the Super Friends. At Wayne Manor, Bane ambushes Batman at the
graves of his parents, Thomas and Martha Wayne, beating him unconscious and burying him alive
in his father's coffin. At a bar near the coast, Motherfucker, disguised as an attractive woman,
tricks police detective John Jones, aka Martian Manhunter, into drinking a poison that causes
him to sweat flammable magnesium and burst into flames. While battling Wonder Woman on a docked
ship, Cheetah scratches Wonder Woman with nanite-tipped claws, resulting in Wonder Woman seeing and
hearing Cheetah in innocent bystanders. Mirror Master lures Flash into a trap, attaching a
bomb to his wrist that will create a 3-mile explosion if he tries to remove it or decrease
in speed. Star Sapphire targets Green Lantern in a mine, using fear gas on him and convincing
him that he doesn't deserve his mantle, leading him to renounce his reign. and resigned himself
to his fate in the collapsing salt mine. Metallo, disguised as a recently terminated Daily Planet
reporter, shoots Superman with a kryptonite bullet on the Daily Planet roof. I just want
to say that Marsha Manhunter has no Riz. And I don't know if I'm too old to say Riz, so
I'll switch it up to game. Like, this woman bought him a soda and he just comes up to her
and he's like, mmm delicious soda. I just remember thinking like, this is so awkward. Like he's
an alien, so you kind of give him a pass. Yeah. But I just thought it was hilarious. Yeah.
If that really wasn't motherfucker, she would have just been like, uh, I got to go wash my
hair. I have a sick aunt. Out of all the different ways this story rift on the characters weaknesses
from the source material, what was your favorite? Well, my favorite was Superman. That was my
favorite moment, maybe in the entire movie. I think it was shocking. I think it was heartfelt.
I loved what Superman was saying. I think it was just like a great closure to like the whole
sequence of all the heroes going down. Actually, when Superman hits the ground, that's the end
of that whole sequence. And that's actually the halfway point of the movie. Interesting.
So, yeah, it takes a while to get through all of it. What about yours? Again, The Flash,
I think. And my least favorite, of course, was Green Lanterns until I knew what happened there.
They're all pretty great, honestly. I don't know if I have a least favorite. I liked them
all. Well, Cyborg helps Wonder Woman overcome her hallucination. By recognizing and neutralizing
the frequency the nanites were emitting, Batman helps Flash by suggesting he phase through
an arctic iceberg to cool and slow down the electronics in the wrist-mounted bomb. Wonder
Roman then helps Martian Manhunter, still on fire in the water, by injecting his body with
aluminum oxide at Batman's suggestion, while Batman himself visits Green Lantern in the
salt mine to reveal that Green Lantern was deceived by a mixture of fear toxin, animatronics. Batman,
Cyborg, and Martian Manhunter together are able to save Superman by removing the kryptonite
bullet in his chest. You know for as much shit as the league gives Batman at least the guy
also had fail safes for his fail safes. You know, he did develop ways to take each of the
league members out but he also had ways to stop those plans. Exactly with like the aluminum
oxide with the kryptonite scalpel. Yeah, there were plans in place. Like, he put them in danger,
but he also saved their lives. Exactly. Now, at the Justice League satellite headquarters,
Batman reveals that what the team had just gone through was his fault. That Mirror Master,
while working with someone else, had stolen his plans to neutralize the League members.
Despite being angry with him, the League tracks a signal from Batman's decoded files to the
Legion of Doom headquarters, where the League battles the Legion. but are unable to stop
Vandal Savage from launching his missile to the sun. What did you think of Vandal Savage's
motivation? As far as humanity needed to, I don't know, become simpler or something through
chaos and destruction? I think it makes sense for the character. He comes from a much simpler
time, and with his immortality, he probably does feel like he is the best equipped to govern
humanity as a species. You know, definitely better than Russell Gould's motivation of simply
distracting everyone. Made it so that no one could read, so that it caused global chaos
with the ultimate goal of initiating a war between two countries. So that lack of communication
is why that arc was called Tower of Babel. Yes. Yep. Makes sense. He created this tower that
emitted a frequency worldwide that scrambled the reading centers in people's brains. I don't
know. Well now it makes more sense why the name of this movie wasn't Justice League Tower of
Babel and I do think that Justice League Doom is a much better name. I agree, much better
promise all around. After overcoming their counterparts, the Justice League works together to save the
planet when Superman fails to stop the missile from triggering a solar flare. Cyborg discovers
that the Legion headquarters is like a giant version of the Royal Flush Gang's intangibility
device and calculates that they could use it to turn the entire planet intangible and safe
from the harm of the solar flare. The plan works and the Earth is saved. Isn't that kind of
bullshit? It's a comic book, bro! I thought it was cool. You know, turning the planet intangible
wouldn't necessarily save it from all the effects of the solar flare, right? Sure would. What
are you talking about? Why wouldn't it, Dr. Joseph? And also, like, what would happen to
everybody on the planet if the Earth became intangible? Like, wouldn't they fall into it?
It was all just weird. It was all weird. No, because the planet wouldn't have had gravity
anymore because it had no more mass. Because it was intangible. Stupid. I thought that was
the most bullshit way to avoid a solar flare that they could have come up with in a fantasy
comic book story. I thought it was actually a really interesting and fun way to do it It
was like one of those things from the Justice League comic books in the 90s and early 2000s
Just these like wacky ways of stopping this global threat that's gonna annihilate the world.
It's just unbelievably over the top If it were me, like, I would have written it so that Cyborg
interfaces with the JLA watch tower and generates a reverse magnetic polarity beam that, you
know, deflects the solar flare or something like that. That seems way more plausible, at
least in my mind, than turning the entire damn planet intangible and having a solar flare
pass through it. Dude, your idea is like some dumb shit that Marvel would do. DC is way cooler.
Okay. Like, are we gonna stop a solar flare? Yeah. We're going to turn the whole fucking
planet intangible. It's going to be dope. That doesn't make sense to your small mind. It doesn't.
But to us, big brain DC guys, it makes perfect sense. Stop lying to yourself. What you're
saying all of this with like the big smile on your face. You know, it's bullshit. You just
don't want to say it's bullshit. It's a comic book, bro. Now, back at the league satellite
headquarters, the team learns that Vandal Savage. was found guilty of crimes against humanity
and sentenced to life without parole. They officially add Cyborg to their roster and vote on Batman's
continued membership with the team. Though Batman defends his actions, he ultimately quits the
League. Superman teleports Batman out of the Watchtower after giving him a box with the
Kryptonite bullet inside, recognizing the need for contingencies against them and showing
his trust in Batman. And that's the end of the film. Are you a little bit surprised that this
movie wasn't considered continuity for the DC animated movie universe that followed this?
I believe Justice League War came out not too long after this movie, and that also had Cyborg
on the team. It seems like they could have rolled with this into that universe. Well, the only
problem with that is that between these two films was the Flashpoint Paradox, which reset
everything. Justice League War is a direct sequel to the Flashpoint Paradox. They're in the same
universe. So because you had that movie reset things you couldn't still have doom in continuity.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I really like this film. I think it's a short yet adequate
adaptation of the Tower of Babel comic storyline, complete with a fan favorite voice cast and
enjoyable superhero action. I love the rosters for both the good guys and the bad guys especially.
I'm giving this film, four stars, a fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah, I agree. I mean,
it has almost everything you would want in a Justice League film. The superpowers are on
full display. The action is great. The voice casting is great. Animation is serviceable
and the story is extremely fascinating. Also extremely simple and extremely short. The movie
isn't even an hour and a half long. It's only 77 minutes. Most movies are around 90 minutes,
so they definitely had enough room to delve into the characters a little bit more, and
they probably should have. But yeah, it's definitely one I would recommend to anyone familiar with
DC. But that does it for this review. Let us know what you thought about the movie by writing
to us at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by visiting us on Instagram, which you could
find a link to in our show notes or by visiting our website at dynamicduel.com. And on our
site, you could also find a link to our Patreon page where you can join our
our fantastic four tier, which gets you bonus content each month, our X-Force tier that makes
you an executive producer of this show, or our newest tier that lets you join our DynaMic
podcast network. Please don't forget to rate the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser,
or on our website. In our next episode, uh, it's going to be a duel. We're going to find
out who will win in a fight between Ultra Humanite and Mr. Sinister. This duel is a long time
coming. Mr. Sinister is by far one of the biggest villains that Marvel has that we have yet to
get in a duel. So I'm really excited for this one. As am I. Ultra Humanite was Superman's
first supervillain and it's about time we've done a duel episode with him. But that does
it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers. Kent Johnson, John
Storowski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Miggy Mathengian, Brandon Nestergaard, Nathaniel
Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Shunk, and
Dean Molesky for helping make this podcast possible. And we'll talk to you guys next week. Up, up
and away, true believers. My main weakness is the cursed. Recapture.