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This is a Dynamike Network podcast.

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Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly
show where we review superhero films and debate

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the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing
their characters in stat-based battle simulations.

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I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous
Joe. And in this episode, we are reviewing

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the 2003 Marvel film Hulk, directed by Ang Lee.
The Hulk is my favorite Marvel character. And

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I know a lot of people hate this movie, but
I actually like it. Well, I don't have a favorite

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DC character. I think they're all bad. I agree
that it's a good movie, but it has some issues.

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I think a lot of people realize that. I think
you're the only one that doesn't, Jonathan.

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We'll talk about the movie later. We've been
waiting to talk about this movie for a while.

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So, looking forward to it. I do wanna say that
Joseph's a filthy liar because he said on the

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Discord before that his favorite superhero from
DC was Superman. That was a joke. I was joking

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that day. Sure, sure. I don't have a favorite
DC superhero. Before we get to the review though,

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we're going to break down the comic book movie
news from this past week, of which there was

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huge news for DC. We got our first look at the
new Superman logo, and James Gunn revealed

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the title change for his upcoming Superman movie.
As always, we list our segment times in our

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episode description, so feel free to check out
the show notes if you want to skip ahead to

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a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent
dual simulator AJ9K has a quick message for

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our listeners, so listen up. Why hello there.
Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel

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and DC? Then become a part of the dynamic dual
community on Patreon, where you can choose

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from three tiers. The dynamic 2-0 tier lets
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gives you access to its Discord chat group,
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Joe. The fantastic 4 tier gives you that and
more with two bonus episodes each month. including

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bloopers and top 10 shows where Johnny and Joe
count down your favorite Marvel and DC subjects.

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The X-Force tier makes you an executive producer
of Dynamic Jewel, where every month you help

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the hosts choose what to review and who to fight
against each other. And finally, the Dynamite

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Podcast Network tier allows aspiring podcasters
to create their own battle-focused show using

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this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will
help you develop your show, provide graphic

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support and consultation, and get you simulation
results Pitch the twins your show via email

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at dynamic dual podcast at gmail.com or by reaching
out to them on social media Check it out at

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patreon.com slash dynamic dual pip cheerio Thanks,
A J 9k and thanks to everyone who supports

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the podcast Guys be sure to tune into the shows
in the dynamike podcast network this week Including

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max destruction which pits your favorite action
heroes from film and television against each

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other this week hosts Ken and Scotty Find out
who'd win in a fight between cleric John Preston

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from Equilibrium and Mr. Smith from Shoot'em
Up. On the Senjoworld podcast, host Master

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Senjow speculates on fights between fan favorite
anime characters. This Thursday, we'll find

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out who would win between Superman from My Adventures
with Superman and some asshole named Son Goku

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from Dragon Ball. I'm actually guessing on this
episode this Thursday, so definitely make sure

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to tune in. On the Console Combat podcast, hosts
John and Dean find out who would win in fights

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between popular video game characters. In yesterday's
episode, they found out who would win between

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Joel Miller from The Last of Us and Deacon St.
John from Days Gone. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com

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or click on the link in our show notes to listen
to all of the shows in the Dynamite Podcast

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Network. But with that out of the way, quick
to the No Prize.

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Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a
digital award we post on Instagram for the

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person that we feel gave the best answer to
our question of the week. Last week we asked,

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what is your favorite universe in the Marvel
or DC multiverse and why? And this was coming

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off of the trailer release for Justice League
Crisis on Infant Earths Part 2, which deals

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with the multiverse. Apparently we've asked
this question before, I don't remember, but

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I think we got some new answers. We'll go ahead
and break down this week's honorable mentions

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as well as the no prize winner. Our first honorable
mention goes to Travis Herndon who said, Hey

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guys, Travis here. So my answer had to be the
manga verse. As an anime lover, I enjoy this

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universe. Seeing Spider-Man as like a ninja,
Iron Man piloting a giant Iron Man's mech suit,

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and Incredible Hulk as like Godzilla. I think
this universe is interesting, has a lot of

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potential for it. an animated series. So yeah,
I think Marvel should capitalize on that and

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make that into a series. So Mangaverse is my
answer. Yeah, we've talked about the Marvel

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Mangaverse before on this show. It's really
cool. Like Travis said, Spider-Man is a ninja.

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You have Iron Man as a mech warrior and then
the Hulk as this kaiju monster. So there's

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a lot of great influences from popular anime
and manga series within the Marvel universe.

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If you guys are into anime or manga. Well, one,
you should check out the Senjou World podcast,

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but two, you should also check out the Marvel
Mangaverse. They've also produced a few movies

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for the Marvel Mangaverse as well, including
like Wolverine and Iron Man and Blade, if I

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remember correctly. Oh, I didn't know that they
made movies for those characters. That's awesome.

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Yeah, a few animated movies produced in Japan.
That's really cool. Hey, we'll have to review

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those. Great answer, Travis. Our next honorable
mention goes to Nate Mantineo, who said. It's

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Nate Mantineo again. I would just like to say
that my favorite universe in the whole multiverse

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of Marvel and DC is easily the punk universe.
Hobie Brown is such a complex character and

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I love all of the storytelling that goes into
this universe. It's so different from the other

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universes that I always love to read these and
I always love to enjoy the writing that is

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put into them. Yeah, great answer, Nate. I personally
have not read too much of the stories that

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take place in the Spider-Verse. The most that
I know about Hobie Brown is his involvement

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in the Spider-Verse comic arc and the across
the Spider-Verse movie. But I do know that

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Earth 138 is a universe in which Norman Osborn
has become president and kind of taken over.

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He's referred to as Ozzy Osborn in that universe.
Interesting. Yeah, Spider-Man got his powers

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through some illegal chemical dumping and he
rises up to fight the power. It's all really

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cool. It's cool stuff. It is very punk in feel
and the way it highlights punk culture and

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punk attitude and everything like that is pretty
neat. Yeah, great answer Nate. Our final honorable

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mention goes to Miggy Methagean who said, Hey,
what's up guys? This is Miggy and my favorite

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alternate DC universes are 38 39 where Superman
and Batman made their original view in the

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late 30s and continue to go throughout their
career at a normal pace so that their successors

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are actually their children and grandchildren.
And I think it was really cool seeing like

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this legacy, idea of legacy being played out
kind of like normally instead of like this

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lighting time scale that we see in the mainstream
universe. Yeah, this was an Elseworlds series

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that I never read. Though I remember seeing
it in my local comic book store in the early

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2000s. I think it was Generations 3 that came
out around that time. But no, that sounds like

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an awesome Elseworlds. I love Elseworlds series,
especially ones that focus on legacy. So yeah,

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I'll definitely have to check this out. It sounds
kind of like Kingdom Come. Sort of, but it's

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more about like just the heroes living in real
time, I guess you could say. So a Superman

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who started in the 1930s would not still be
Superman today. Well, if Kingdom Come was written

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in the past as an Elseworld story set in the
future, if our present is now the past's future,

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you could almost say that Kingdom Come is a
story that would take place today. Because

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I think in that story, Superman and Batman were
almost 100 years old. Well, maybe not 100,

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but definitely up there. Great answer, Miggy.
That does it for all of our honorable mentions.

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The winner of this week's Snow Prize is Ed Jones.
Who said? What's up, boys? It's Ed Jones here.

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Listen, I'm gonna tell you the best Marvel multiverse.
It's the old man Logan world. Here's why. Hulk

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hillbillies, check. Tyrannosaurus Rex covered
in a symbiote. Check. All your favorite heroes

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have been murdered in gruesome ways by their
villains. Check, check, check. What's better

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than that? Absolutely nothing. This is the top
tier of the Marvel Universe. All right. Thanks.

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Peace out.

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partly a road trip story between Wolverine and
Hawkeye as they journey across the United States,

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but it's also a revenge story toward the end.
If you're a fan of the Hulk, like if you like

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the Hulk movie and you're listening to this
review episode of the Hulk because you're a

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fan, maybe avoid Old Man Logan because they
kind of did the character dirty in the books

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because in that timeline he does the nasty with
his cousin She-Hulk and they produce a bunch

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of offspring. So that's kind of awkward. I think
I knew that, but I also think I blocked it.

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Yeah, somewhat in their defense, I guess they
ended up going crazy due to radiation exposure

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in California. But it's not much of a defense.
Mark Miller wrote it, obviously, like, because

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that's totally something that Mark Miller would
put in one of his stories. Yeah, he kind of

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tends to try to be a little bit edgy about things
a little bit too much. So sometimes now it

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makes sense. Now it all makes sense. So my favorite
elseworlds is Kingdom Come. Anyone who's been

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listening to the podcast for a while knows that.
But Joseph, what is yours? That's a great question.

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Well, I mean, anybody who's listened to the
podcast, especially some of our bonus episodes

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that we have on Patreon, they probably know
that my favorite Marvel story is Earth X, which

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is a Kingdom Come-like story set in the Marvel
Universe that is highly introspective on the

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Marvel Universe as a whole. So I might say that
one. Cool, yeah, that is a good one. Well,

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great answer, Ed. You win this week's No Prize
if you the listener won a shot at winning your

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own No Prize. Stay tuned to later on in this
episode when we'll be asking another question

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of the week. And now that that's done, on to
the news!

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Okay, so I've been complaining for a while now
that we haven't seen anything from Superman

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Legacy. I know the movie is coming out next
year, but I was still hoping to see something

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like a logo or a poster for the film. And last
week my dream came true because we got our

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first look at the logo that Superman will wear
on his costume in the newly titled Superman.

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They dropped Legacy from the title, so now it's
just titled Superman. Now of course, it's hard

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to say that this was our first look because
actress Isabella Merced, who's playing Cock

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Girl in the movie, kind of teased a shot of
the logo during a roundtable cast read, but

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we didn't know at the time that was going to
be like the actual one on the costume. But

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sure enough, James Gunn and David Cornswett,
the actor who's playing Superman, posted to

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their social media accounts a shot of Superman's
chest in the snow, and it's the kingdom come.

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inspired logo that Isabella Merced posted to
her social media account. As I mentioned Kingdom

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Come is my favorite storyline of all time, so
it's interesting to see that being used in

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the yellow and red color scheme because traditionally
in the comics it's red and black. I do have

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to say though when I first saw it I wasn't like
floored by it. I actually think that specific

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logo has lost some of its novelty considering
the fact that we saw Brandon in the CW crossover

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event, Crisis on Infinite Earths. Who do you
think threw the snowball at Superman? Because

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whoever it was, they have dead on aim. That
was just center mass right in the chest. Good

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shot. I didn't even think about that. I guess,
like, is he laying down? Yeah, that's a good

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question. I think they're filming up north to
sort of simulate the environment for the Forges

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of Solitude, which is actually really cool.
I can't wait to see that. You think Superman

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was digging around in the snow, making like
an igloo type shelter to be his new fortress?

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Right, he was making a snow angel, but he was
giving it like a cape instead of wings. There

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you go. I like the texture of the new costume.
It's not quite as alien as the suit was for

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Man of Steel, but it's definitely modern in
its appearance. I actually thought the texture

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and the colors actually were pretty similar
to Man of Steel's. I think that's another reason

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why I wasn't blown away by it. I kind of wish
they would have gone with a different texture,

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although which one I'd be hard pressed to say
all in all, though, it just gets me that much

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more excited to see that costume, considering
that they started filming and they're filming

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outside. Hopefully someone could get some behind
the scenes spy picks because that would be

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really cool. You don't want to spoil it for
yourself. No, I do. I do. Coincidentally, they

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started filming on February 29th. which is canonically
Superman's birthday. They gave him the birthday

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of February 29th to explain why he ages so slowly.
Kind of a dumb reason, but also interesting

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that they started filming on that day unintentionally.
What do you think about the new title? Just

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Superman? Are you surprised that James Gunn
didn't include the in front of it, like the

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Superman or the Suicide Squad or the Batman?
No, because Superman's never been referred

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to as the Superman. I call him the Superman
sometimes. Yeah, but you're dumb. So, no, I

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mean, when I think of like the old Richard Donner
film, I don't think of that movie as Superman.

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I think of that movie as Superman the movie,
you know, with the subtitle. So for me, naming

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this one Superman is probably James Gunn's way
of making it the definitive Superman movie

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for this generation, I would say. I think that
is definitely a better title than something

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like Man of Steel or Superman Returns or something
like that. You know, if you're going to reboot

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the franchise, just title it Superman. And that's
totally what they did here and it makes sense.

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The movie is not going to come out until July
11th, 2025. So they have a lot of shooting

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to get through a lot of post-production to get
through. And I'm really excited to see what

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more information they're going to release now
that they're shooting. But considering the

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fact that the first thing they released of the
film was the logo. That brings us to our question

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of the week.

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What is your favorite Superman logo and why?
Yeah, this is across all film, all television,

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all video games, all media basically, and comic
books of course. Record your answer at dynamicduel.com

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00:15:32,216 --> 00:15:36,057
by clicking on the red microphone button in
the bottom right-hand corner of the screen,

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00:15:36,317 --> 00:15:40,459
which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail.
Your message can be up to 30 seconds long,

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00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:44,821
and don't forget to leave your name in case
we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our

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00:15:44,841 --> 00:15:49,659
favorite answer. and award that person a dynamic
duel no prize that will post to Instagram.

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Be sure to answer before March 9th.

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But I believe that does it for all the news
for this episode. Now let's move on to the

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main event, where we review the 2003 Marvel
film Hulk.

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Hulk came out in 2003, directed by Ang Lee and
starring Eric Bana, Jennifer Connelly, Sam

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Elliott, Nick Nolte, and Josh Lucas. Before
I even get into it, because I have a lot to

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say, here's your spoiler warning right up top.
We'll be discussing plot elements from this

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film that you won't want spoiled for you if
you haven't seen the movie but still plan to.

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I mean, the movie is over 20 years old at this
point, but you know, if there are some of you

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still looking to go on fresh, please pause this
podcast, see it, and then come back. I ultimately

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do recommend seeing the film, if only because
it tried things that we've never really seen

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in superhero cinema before. And there are some
genuinely great Hulk moments in the movie.

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Dude, I just suddenly felt really old. I did
not realize that this movie is over 20 years

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old. That is messed up for sure. I still remember
seeing this movie during the midnight screening

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while we were in high school. Damn it. It's
almost like this movie is a classic now, right?

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I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear
it. Out of all the reviews we've ever done

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and will ever do for this podcast, I've been
the most trepidatious and conversely excited

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to discuss this movie. Because from the moment
I saw the teaser trailer for Hulk attached

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to the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie in theaters,
you know, the one where Bruce Banner is shaving

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and then we see his eye turn green and then
his house erupts, you know? Right. My excitement

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for this movie could not. be contained from
that moment. I looked forward to the Hulk movie

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more than any other superhero movie that preceded
it. Now, this was 17-year-old Joseph who hadn't

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learned to check his expectations yet. But I
remember counting down the months until the

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Hulk's release. And when it did come out, you
and I had gotten a job at our local movie theater

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and I knew I was going to be able to see the
movie as many times as I wanted. And I did

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end up seeing Hulk six times in theaters. I
saw it with you, Jonathan, I saw it with our

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siblings, with our parents, with some friends,
and even a few times on my own. I remember

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telling everyone about how fun it was and getting
them hyped to see it, but then I remember the

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look of disappointment in each of their eyes
as we left the theaters. Like, none of them

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liked it as much as I wanted them to. I still
remember seeing this movie in theaters and

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just like... From the opening music by Danny
Elfman, it was just like this magical experience.

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And even watching it again recently for this
review, it took me all the way back there.

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I don't know if it's a nostalgia thing, but
it just made me really happy to be watching

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this movie. Yeah, I mean, I agree that Danny
Elfman's score, you know, was incredible. Recent

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allegations aside, Danny Elfman is a superb
film composer who has scored numerous films

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from 1989's Batman to 2002's Spider-Man, even
as recently as 2022's Doctor Strange and the

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Multiverse of Madness. I think his work on The
Hulk is his biggest departure and probably

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my most favorite. Just like the sweeping orchestra
with all the strange sounding instruments that

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combine to create this really unique score.
Real dark, yet still very powerful.

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Um, in hindsight, I think I saw the film so
many times in theaters because I wanted to

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like it more than I did. And it was because
I was so invested in the idea of the film being

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incredible that I wasn't honest with myself
that the film is really a mixed bag of absolutely

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brilliant and horrible ideas. I truly appreciate
the film for the vision and what it attempts,

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but damn, it is a hard movie to sit through
sometimes, I have to admit. Anyone who has

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trouble sitting through this movie just has
the worst attention span ever. That's not even

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true. Like, I miss movies like this, honestly.
I miss movies that sort of force you to pay

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attention and have you sit and experience this
art, you could say. Ang Lee is an auteur, hands

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down. And this is a really beautiful movie.
I mean, in terms of character depth and in

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terms of artistic editing, the movie swings
for the fences, which I 100% respect. But I

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would say the film doesn't really hit a home
run. As much as Ang Lee tries to bring his

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own auteur sensibilities to the superhero genre,
it doesn't fully work at least not in the way

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general audiences would expect in a Hulk movie.
And make no mistake, Ang Lee is an auteur.

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Films like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Life
of Pi, all of his films are masterpieces. But

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much in the way Chloe Zhao lost the point with
Eternals and leaned too heavily into her own

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thing about love for humanity. Ang Lee seemed
less interested in the Hulk as a character

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and more interested in the story of a man with
repressed rage. On its own, that sounds fascinating,

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but when it takes 40 minutes for us to even
see the Hulk, when the second act doesn't start

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until an hour 10 into the film, and when the
climactic battle sputters into an unintelligible

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mess, at that point you kinda start wishing
for a more straightforward entertaining approach.

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I mean- Okay, I will admit that the movie has
some problems, but for me, they don't outweigh

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the number of things that this movie does good
in terms of direction, in terms of score, in

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terms of acting and theme and story. Marvel
tries so hard to make its characters tragic.

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You know, it's like, oh, Spider-Man can't pay
the rent. Oh, Iron Man is an alcoholic. Oh,

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Captain America doesn't understand modern music.
When it comes to the Hulk, though. He's like

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next level tragic. It's like a Shakespearean
tragedy that his story kind of has the weight

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of, I feel. And Ang Lee did a masterful job
of capturing that. There's no other way to

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describe it. Now, I understand if fans of The
Hulk don't like that approach and they just

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want to see The Hulk destroy things and smash
things, but to me I get so much more value

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out of something like this 2003 Hulk film than
a lot of what we've gotten from The Hulk later

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on. I mean... You cannot discount the effort
Ang Lee put into the why of the Hulk and the

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psychology of the character. In the comics,
Bruce Banner's backstory with his abusive father

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was touched upon, but it was introduced in the
books long after the character was. That is

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to say, the psychology of how a man manifests
his childhood trauma in the form of a rage-fueled,

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tantrum-throwing monster is riveting, but it's
not 100% necessary for the appeal of the character.

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I mean, you look at The Incredible Hulk, or
Mark Ruffalo's Hulk. Their relationship with

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their fathers have no bearing on our enjoyment
of the Hulk in the MCU, but exploring the depths

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of a character's psychosis is to truly understand
them, and understanding them makes them more

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real and interesting. I think especially for
a character like the Hulk as well. However,

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it is possible to take that too far and to be
too esoteric with it. For example, The theme

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of dreams is heavily prevalent in this story.
You know, a lot of Bruce's repressed feelings

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are represented through dreams of the desert
with symbols of his father's experimentation,

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such as floating jellyfish and lizards, symbols
of his mom, such as desert flowers and lichen.

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That's all really interesting. But when you
have a scene where Bruce dreams about Hulk

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snatching Kim through a mirror while shaving,
what was the point of that? You know, you have

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Betty's dream slash memory of when she was a
child living on the same desert as Bruce. I

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have no idea what the purpose of her dream was.
Like you could say that sequence served to

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show her and Bruce's childhood ties. Right.
While showing her subconscious uncomfortableness

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with him and her recognition of something dark
lurking within. Right. But that's all left

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for interpretation. We don't know what happened
to her as a child, or who that man really was,

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or why the scene was necessary to begin with.
You know, there's a lot in this film that can

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and probably should have been left on the cutting
room floor. No! Because, like, at some point

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the psychological exploration becomes redundant.
You know, from the very opening scene, the

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audience already understands that something
traumatic happened in his childhood. Dude,

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that's the joy of watching the film on multiple
passes. Like, finally understanding Betty's

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dream on the third or fourth watch is part of
the joy of it. You understand more about the

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humanity of these characters and what they've
gone through by watching this film multiple

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times. Now... Like I said, I saw the film six
times in theaters. I don't think I would recommend

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to anybody that they need to watch this film
multiple times. It's a long ass movie. It's

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over 130 minutes long. Again, people complain
about long runtimes. I say that's just more

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bank for your buck. There are a lot of like
montage-y scenes though that could have easily

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been excised that seemed like they just included
in the film because they spent the money and

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resources to film it. Like a three minute sequence
of Bruce being taken to the desert base or

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the two minute scene of police and military
just driving up and pointing their guns at

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Bruce in San Francisco. Like literally nothing
else happens there. The pacing of the film

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has no drive and the editing has no semi-regard
for its intended audience, people who really

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would pay to see this movie. And I think the
box office showed that the film was like a

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success, but it wasn't a resounding success.
When it comes to the editing. I understand

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that it's not a tight cut, absolutely could
have been tighter, but I think you have to,

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as you mentioned earlier, 100% respect the ambition
of the filmmakers at Tuck to invoke reading

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a comic book, panel by panel. I mean sure, it's
kind of like a double edged sword. I mean,

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on one hand, The Hulk does things with the craft
of editing that no other film has attempted

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that I've seen then or since. There are some
transitions here that are honestly mind-blowing.

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Like when Bruce leans forward in front of a
pict panel of a screen monitor, and it turns

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out the monitor is in the frame after the transition.
That's like, whoa! Right. Or like, when a split

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screen of helicopters in the sky and Humvees
on the ground are revealed to share the same

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horizon. Or like, when the camera tracks Betty
running in one direction with plants coming

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into frame that are taken from a different shot
of her entering from the other side. Like,

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my jaw drops when I see stuff like that. That
type of editing is so unique in narrative film.

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On the other hand, like you said, Ang Lee also
tried to convey the experience of reading comic

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book panels by often showing multiple takes
of a shot within the same frame. And I would

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say not only is that experience not like reading
a comic, it was probably the most annoying

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editing I've ever seen. Like that type of film
school experimental stuff has a place maybe,

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but not in a film like this. Especially when
the editor doesn't transition out of the panel

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framing, like you have multiple shots in frame,
and then it just snaps into one shot without

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any flow. It's used very clumsily a lot in this
movie. I mean, they say that editing is supposed

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to be an invisible art form, right? If you notice
it, then it's probably not good editing. But

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there were so many times here, like you mentioned
before, where certain elements and certain

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panels move into other split screen panels and
become a part of that shot that was just so

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seamless. It's movie magic, man. It's incredible.
I have no idea how they planned out. some of

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these shots because you can't really storyboard
for editing like this, I feel. So I don't know

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how they even fathomed some of these transitions
that are in this movie, but they're too ambitious

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to just kind of dismiss. Like I remember being
pissed off that the film wasn't even nominated

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for an editing Oscar because it was unlike anything
like you mentioned I've ever seen before. I

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think it wasn't recognized for an Oscar because
it has simultaneously some of the best and

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worst editing ever and they couldn't discount
like the re- ridiculous looking shots with

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the really cool stuff that the film attempted.
I feel like you feel that way about the movie

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in general. Yeah, I mean, it's a mixed bag.
Well, you're wrong. Like, I feel like you're

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trying to make me dislike this movie, but you're
just making me appreciate it like all the more.

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I'm not trying to get you to dislike this movie.
I'm just speaking truth. And if you want to

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be blinded by nostalgia and weird reverse fanboyism,
considering you're not even a Marvel fan, you

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know, more power to you. but I think I'm speaking
to a large portion of the audience who agrees

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that this movie is a mixed bag. That being said,
let's go ahead and move into our character

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breakdown, starting with The Hulk, aka Bruce
Banner, played by Eric Bana. I like Eric Bana.

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I think he's a decent actor who did a commendable
job in the role of Bruce. I think he nailed

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the more psychological aspects of the character,
especially his internal conflict. You know,

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he's actually very skilled at portraying Bruce's
inner rage that's boiling just under the surface.

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What he's not that great at is at portraying
external rage where he's like snarling and

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shaking and roaring. But in his defense, I don't
know a single adult actor that can pull off

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that kind of temper tantrum behavior in a believable
way. I think Ang Lee's direction didn't do

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Eric Bana any favors when it came to those scenes
because the actor came across as kind of ridiculous

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in those moments. It did feel kind of forced
on more than one occasion. I will agree. You

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know, there's a reason why we never saw Edward
Norton or Mark Ruffalo do that sort of over

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the top rage acting. You know, with Norton,
they had the heart rate monitor gimmick where

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he conveyed more of a sense of panic as his
transformation was imminent. And Ruffalo has

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only had one angry transformation and that was
during the helicarrier attack in the first

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Avengers film. And by the time he was that angry,
his transformation was already in progress,

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which made sense. You know, if you're going
to be that angry, you may as well already be

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transforming. So I think Ang Lee didn't have
a good sense on how to portray those transformation

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scenes. And Eric Bana suffered for it coming
across sometimes more like Mr. Furious from

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the Mystery Men film. I mean, the whole cast
is stellar and Eric Bana is probably the weakest

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among the cast, unfortunately, but not to the
point where it's detrimental to the film. I

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still think he's. probably the best actor to
portray the character, at least in this dramatic

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kind of way. Well, he definitely had the most
work with in terms of psychological depth,

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right? Right. I don't think he's the weakest
link in the cast. I think he's actually the

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second weakest link, but we'll get to that later.
Back on Bruce Banner, his arc is massive throughout

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the film. It encompasses basically his entire
life from when he was a child. He suffered

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this incredibly tragic emotional trauma as a
kid, witnessing his father murder his mother

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causing him to grow up as this emotionally distant
man who can't keep a relationship with the

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woman he loves. Especially with Jennifer Connolly,
what the hell? I know what dude Get your shit

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together for real After his gamma accident brings
his inner rage and trauma to the surface in

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the form of the hulk His past is explored regarding
his father which results in subsequent transformations

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In the chaos that results Bruce finds comfort
in the one person that truly cares for him,

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Betty Ross, and he learns the person he loves
but kept at a distance is the only one who

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can save him. Great beautiful arc. On top of
that, the revelations regarding his father

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result in this uncertainty and fear of his own
self, yet he gets simultaneous catharsis with

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the therapeutic release of his inner anger in
the form of the Hulk, hinting at sort of this

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love-hate relationship with the beast within.
It's psychologically complex stuff that really

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highlights what's so fascinating about the comic
book character. Yeah, and in a way that they

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haven't been able to capture since, you know.
Yeah, it's the best thing about the film. It's

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what makes it the best Marvel movie. This is
your favorite Marvel movie of all time? Yeah,

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it's definitely up there, hands down. I can't
think of another Marvel movie that is so, I

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guess, interesting and not just entertaining
for entertainment's sake. Like to me, this

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is the closest thing that Marvel has to like
true cinema. What about films like Black Panther

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or The Winter Soldier? No, no. OK. You're crazy.
No, I am not. You're talking crazy, man. Let's

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talk about the Hulk himself, though. When the
film first came out, I thought the design of

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the CGI Hulk was perfection. And to be fair,
you know, the CGI was really solid for the

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time. And I think it still holds up today. You
know, and there may be people who balk at that.

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But I mean, like there are plenty of CGI characters
in recent films, like, say, the Incredible

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Hulk that wouldn't hold up to similar scrutiny.
But in the years since 2003, Hulk came out.

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The less I like the character design. I don't
remember him being as green as he was. Yeah,

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seeing him in 4K now is jarring because I remember
him looking a lot more real. but I would agree

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it's still better than a lot of what we see
to this day. Like comparing this version of

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the Hulk to some, you know, shoddy CG of the
flash, my movie we got just last year. And

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it's clear that they put a lot of work into
this version of the Hulk. Oh yeah. Industrial

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Light of Magic did an exceptional job, but you
mentioned the color green. I agree. I don't

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like the green that they chose even though when
I first saw the movie, I thought it was spot

365
00:33:12,420 --> 00:33:15,761
on, but now I see it and I'm like, it's too
turquoise. You know, there's too much blue

366
00:33:15,801 --> 00:33:20,603
in the mix. The skin tone should have been more
olive or lime in its complexion like in the

367
00:33:20,643 --> 00:33:25,564
other films. I almost wonder if they were going
for something bioluminescent. I guess, but

368
00:33:26,064 --> 00:33:30,565
it wasn't a good choice. It's not as believable
as a skin color. I also think his face was

369
00:33:30,605 --> 00:33:35,627
too babyish. And yes, I understand that the
Hulk is a manifestation of Bruce's childhood

370
00:33:35,667 --> 00:33:40,608
trauma, but when you compare those baby features
to the badass version of the Incredible Hulk

371
00:33:40,688 --> 00:33:46,249
or the very realistic Mark Ruffalo-esque version
in the Avengers, 2003 Hulk just doesn't hold

372
00:33:46,329 --> 00:33:52,919
up. Yeah, no, the Ruffalo Hulk is by far the
superior version design wise of the Hulk because

373
00:33:52,959 --> 00:33:57,581
it looks like the actor who's playing Kim. This
version of the Hulk looks nothing like Eric

374
00:33:57,621 --> 00:34:02,262
Bana, even though you can see a little bit of
a hint of him in there. I actually think I

375
00:34:02,462 --> 00:34:08,023
saw more of the child version of Bruce Banner
in the Hulk this latest time I was watching

376
00:34:08,124 --> 00:34:14,165
it. But yeah, like even the hairstyle is different.
It's it's kind of strange. Yeah. Let's go to

377
00:34:14,205 --> 00:34:19,279
move on to. Betty Ross who was played by Jennifer
Connolly. Now I want to give a quick disclaimer.

378
00:34:19,739 --> 00:34:23,300
Jennifer Connolly has been my childhood crush
from the moment I first saw her in the Rocketeer

379
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:28,641
in theaters. And she's exceptional and flawless
in any performance she's ever given. Moving

380
00:34:28,701 --> 00:34:35,363
on to- And that's yeah, that's all you really
have to say. That's all you really have to

381
00:34:35,403 --> 00:34:39,964
say. No, I'll bias aside for the monument to
grace and beauty that is Jennifer Connolly.

382
00:34:40,364 --> 00:34:44,565
I thought she was a great Betty Ross. I think
similar to Liv Tyler in the incredible Hulk

383
00:34:44,605 --> 00:34:49,584
film. Her version of Betty exudes this dainty
vulnerability that's suitable for a damsel

384
00:34:49,604 --> 00:34:54,467
in distress, yet this strength of character
that shows you she's so much more. I think

385
00:34:54,687 --> 00:34:58,910
Jennifer Connelly is the heart and soul of this
film. In some ways I feel like she's almost

386
00:34:59,150 --> 00:35:03,192
like the protagonist in how much screen time
she gets and just how good of a performance

387
00:35:03,212 --> 00:35:09,576
she gives. She played in this film right after
winning an Oscar for her performance in A Beautiful

388
00:35:09,616 --> 00:35:14,127
Mind, and it totally shows. Like she did so
much more with this character than I think

389
00:35:14,207 --> 00:35:17,750
was even on the page. Yeah, I mean, they're
almost the same roles, weren't they? Kind of.

390
00:35:17,770 --> 00:35:22,114
Yeah. Pretty similar type characters. Yeah.
She did a phenomenal job and you look at even

391
00:35:22,174 --> 00:35:26,798
small things like the difference in how she
acted with Bruce with that sensitive intelligence

392
00:35:26,818 --> 00:35:32,142
and poise comparing that to how she acted with
her father, the general, full of nervous anxiety.

393
00:35:32,242 --> 00:35:37,298
You know, it was all just very convincing and
grounded. Right. Absolutely. Let's go ahead

394
00:35:37,358 --> 00:35:43,123
and move on to General Thaddeus Ross aka Thunderbolt
who was played by Sam Elliott. Sam Elliott

395
00:35:43,163 --> 00:35:47,326
is a talented actor and I thought he pulled
off a convincing adaptation of the character

396
00:35:47,366 --> 00:35:53,211
from the source material. Like this dude clearly
has anger issues but not in a cigar chomping

397
00:35:53,351 --> 00:35:57,454
caricature of what anger issues look like in
the comics. But he totally comes across as

398
00:35:57,474 --> 00:36:02,919
a dude who's clearly been through some stuff
managing this military base and you know he's

399
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:09,939
aging and just generally sick of your shit,
Jonathan. I'll say this though, he has the

400
00:36:09,979 --> 00:36:15,381
most severely trimmed mustache I've ever seen
in my entire life in this movie. Like why did

401
00:36:15,441 --> 00:36:20,243
he need to trim it so much? It's already mustache
shaped. Like just leave it alone, bro. I mean,

402
00:36:21,364 --> 00:36:24,745
I think it was fitting for the character. He's
a military guy. He doesn't need to be the best

403
00:36:24,765 --> 00:36:30,047
looking guy in the room. You know, all he needs
to do is exactly what he did in the movie and

404
00:36:30,067 --> 00:36:35,149
just like be really pissed off and just have
like this commanding presence, which he totally

405
00:36:35,229 --> 00:36:41,402
sold. You know, I've had debates on our Discord
whether Sam Elliott or William Hertz gave a

406
00:36:41,442 --> 00:36:46,847
better Thunderbolt Ross performance. And to
me, it's laughable that you could even compare

407
00:36:46,927 --> 00:36:52,171
William Hertz performance to Sam Elliott's.
Sam Elliott just did, in my opinion, such a

408
00:36:52,251 --> 00:36:58,857
better job and more believable job. And I think
he's absolutely the superior version. Totally

409
00:36:58,917 --> 00:37:02,520
disagree that William Hertz's character can't
be compared to Sam Elliott's because I think

410
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:09,277
they both did a phenomenal job. No. No, like
William Hurt was like jokey and like aloof.

411
00:37:09,677 --> 00:37:16,323
Yeah. Like when he's in the bar like, Oh, like
Tony Stark. No, Sally would not behave in that

412
00:37:16,363 --> 00:37:24,749
manner. He's a fucking officer and a gentleman.
OK, calm down, Richard Gere. Let's go to move

413
00:37:24,809 --> 00:37:33,475
on to the absorbing man, a David Banner played
by Nick Nolte. I have no idea what to say about

414
00:37:33,535 --> 00:37:38,819
Nick Nolte's portrayal. Like his role is so
unlike the absorbing man, but it seems very

415
00:37:38,879 --> 00:37:44,343
in tune with Brian Banner, who is Bruce Banner's
dad in the comics. If you took away everything

416
00:37:44,383 --> 00:37:49,446
about how the comic character looked and acted
and then made it 100% more like Nick Nolte.

417
00:37:49,887 --> 00:37:54,170
In fact, I'm pretty sure Nick Nolte wasn't even
acting here. I think he was just on a drug

418
00:37:54,190 --> 00:38:01,582
field bender that he tried to kill Eric Banner.
Jeez. And they filmed it. I thought he did

419
00:38:01,642 --> 00:38:07,705
a fantastic job. I mean, I loved it up until
he became the absorbing man. Honestly, as cool

420
00:38:07,765 --> 00:38:12,387
as that looked and as cool as they like depicted
that, I kind of wish that they didn't do that

421
00:38:12,427 --> 00:38:16,549
to the character. I understand you need like
a super villain with super powers to go up

422
00:38:16,569 --> 00:38:21,951
against the Hulk, but Nick Nolte was menacing
enough when he didn't have powers in my opinion.

423
00:38:22,392 --> 00:38:28,246
Not really, he was just this like dude who needed
a shower. Oh my gosh. Did a few too many experiments

424
00:38:28,266 --> 00:38:34,868
on himself with drugs, like both the legal and
illegal kind. I don't know what to say to that.

425
00:38:34,928 --> 00:38:40,369
You're you're wrong. I thought you gave a great
performance and he totally pulled off like

426
00:38:40,429 --> 00:38:44,790
all of the scientific jargon and everything
like that, that the role required. He was meant

427
00:38:44,830 --> 00:38:49,932
to be unhinged. What did you think of him suddenly
going all Megalo maniacal in the final scene

428
00:38:50,032 --> 00:38:53,993
that he had? Oh yeah, that's an interesting
scene. I understand that he was like mad at

429
00:38:54,033 --> 00:38:58,647
the military, but I'm not sure where the whole
Yeah, let's take over the world and stuff the

430
00:38:58,667 --> 00:39:03,029
military from controlling our lives kind of
angle came from Yeah, he kind of became like

431
00:39:03,049 --> 00:39:07,892
this weird conspiracy theorists like wanting
to tear down flags and governments and stuff

432
00:39:07,912 --> 00:39:12,835
like that It was kind of out of left field.
Let's go to move on to Major Glenn Talbot played

433
00:39:12,895 --> 00:39:19,258
by Josh Lucas Now Josh Lucas is a good actor.
Just not at all in this movie I don't know

434
00:39:19,278 --> 00:39:23,401
if he was directed to give the most cartoon
villain performance ever here, but he gave

435
00:39:23,441 --> 00:39:27,783
it his best shot regardless I thought it was
interesting how they made Major Glenn Talbot

436
00:39:27,843 --> 00:39:32,184
from the comics into an ex-military civilian
contractor for a science corporation here.

437
00:39:32,344 --> 00:39:36,906
They did keep some things like he still pined
for Betty Ross and it seemed like maybe they

438
00:39:36,926 --> 00:39:42,068
had a past together, but none of that was really
explored. I guess I did misspeak earlier when

439
00:39:42,108 --> 00:39:46,290
I said that Eric Bana was kind of the weakest
link in this ensemble because I would agree

440
00:39:46,330 --> 00:39:51,432
Josh Lucas was worse. Honestly, I'm not even
sure how he got the job. I wonder if it was

441
00:39:51,452 --> 00:39:55,914
maybe because he knew Jennifer Connelly from
A Beautiful Mind or what. but yeah, I think

442
00:39:55,934 --> 00:40:00,417
he was miscast. He was kind of a rising star
at the time. We don't quite see him in as much

443
00:40:00,457 --> 00:40:05,701
stuff anymore. True. I do think the character
was done real dirty the way he went out, you

444
00:40:05,721 --> 00:40:10,564
know, having the M2 rocket ricochet off the
Hulk and then blast him into this like cardboard

445
00:40:10,604 --> 00:40:15,468
cutout. That was weird. That was definitely
one of the film's less successful transitions.

446
00:40:15,668 --> 00:40:19,170
I don't know. I think it was meant to kind of
be humorous. Like when I shot up. Oh, shut

447
00:40:19,230 --> 00:40:24,394
up. Okay, all right. No, you're going too far.
You're just defending everything now. And you've

448
00:40:24,414 --> 00:40:27,376
got to be realistic. You gotta be. Even when
I watched it with my girls, they were like,

449
00:40:27,436 --> 00:40:33,280
ha ha. And we just moved on. No one complained
about it. You're just a complainer. Now, like,

450
00:40:33,340 --> 00:40:38,684
do you like entertainment or do you not? You
just like to complain about things. No, I don't.

451
00:40:39,044 --> 00:40:43,528
I call things out as they exist. I do think
it would have been interesting to have Talbot

452
00:40:43,568 --> 00:40:48,011
be more of a soldier than a scientist and like
pilot one of the helicopters that were trying

453
00:40:48,051 --> 00:40:51,473
to take the Hulk out, because I think that would
have been more in keeping with the comics.

454
00:40:52,094 --> 00:40:57,655
and would have given a more human face to the
Hulk versus the army struggle. A great rendition

455
00:40:57,855 --> 00:41:01,897
of Major Glenn Talbot was done in the Agents
of S.H.I.E.L.D. television show who I thought

456
00:41:01,937 --> 00:41:06,278
was very true to character compared to this
Josh Lucas version. Yeah, I mean, I don't know

457
00:41:06,338 --> 00:41:10,359
too much about the character from the comics,
but I'm guessing the character is better in

458
00:41:10,399 --> 00:41:15,801
the comics or anywhere else but this movie.
That brings us to the end of the character

459
00:41:15,821 --> 00:41:18,001
breakdown. Let's go ahead and move into the
story highlights.

460
00:41:25,446 --> 00:41:31,510
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network rises above the rest. Prepare yourself

461
00:41:31,730 --> 00:41:37,834
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462
00:41:37,894 --> 00:41:45,042
Network presents Console Combat, where video
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463
00:41:45,102 --> 00:41:51,267
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464
00:41:51,827 --> 00:41:57,732
And Sendro World, where anime champions clash
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465
00:41:57,772 --> 00:42:03,457
the matches and armed with the power of mathematical
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466
00:42:03,997 --> 00:42:08,261
Visit dynamicpodcast.com where we settle the
debate and settle the score.

467
00:42:12,846 --> 00:42:18,690
In the late 1960s, military researcher David
Banner experiments on his own DNA in his attempts

468
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:22,994
to strengthen the human immune system. He's
terrified of what those experiments could mean

469
00:42:23,014 --> 00:42:27,858
when his wife becomes pregnant and gives birth
to their son Bruce, who is born with some sort

470
00:42:27,878 --> 00:42:33,463
of genetic mutation that manifests during emotional
distress. While trying to find a cure, Colonel

471
00:42:33,503 --> 00:42:38,727
Thunderbolt Ross shuts down David's research,
causing him to lash out and destroy the military

472
00:42:38,787 --> 00:42:44,348
desert base with its gamma nuclear reactor.
and then attempt to kill Bruce, inadvertently

473
00:42:44,408 --> 00:42:49,393
murdering his wife in the process. This part
of the story was done mostly over the opening

474
00:42:49,433 --> 00:42:54,077
credits to the film, which again were fantastic.
I thought it was a really effective montage

475
00:42:54,137 --> 00:42:58,921
sequence that to this day, yeah, still blows
my mind in how inventive and unique it is.

476
00:42:59,482 --> 00:43:04,746
Yeah, sort of like a masterclass on how to effectively
tell a story through montage. Like no words

477
00:43:04,767 --> 00:43:09,542
were needed. Of course they had, you know, notes
scribbled on a notepad. But even ignoring those,

478
00:43:09,662 --> 00:43:13,924
for the most part, you got the gist of what
was going on. Yeah, really effective. It's

479
00:43:13,964 --> 00:43:19,086
also just a great setup for a story. I mean,
there's like this mad science kind of aspect

480
00:43:19,106 --> 00:43:24,928
to it. And from the get go, it sets up the tragedy
of Bruce Banner's life. For sure. Although

481
00:43:25,288 --> 00:43:31,051
I really do hate the scene where teenage Bruce
wakes up in a sweat from his dream and like

482
00:43:31,071 --> 00:43:36,393
his mom comes in and she's like, another nightmare.
And then she's like, you're so special. It's

483
00:43:36,413 --> 00:43:42,097
like, shut up, mom. Can add here. He's like,
yes, I had a bad dream. I wasn't jerking off.

484
00:43:43,618 --> 00:43:50,844
What was my nightmare about? I don't remember.
As he hides magazine under his mattress.

485
00:43:55,874 --> 00:44:01,817
Uh, in the present day, Bruce works in Berkeley,
California as a researcher in cellular regeneration.

486
00:44:02,277 --> 00:44:06,760
After a technical glitch in one of his experiments,
he is bombarded with lethal exposure to gamma

487
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:12,363
radiation, but he survives. While in the hospital,
the lab's new janitor reveals to Bruce that

488
00:44:12,423 --> 00:44:18,246
he is his father, David, and the reason he survived
was due to a mutation. While coping with David's

489
00:44:18,306 --> 00:44:23,409
news and looking into his own DNA, Bruce receives
word that his research is likely going to be

490
00:44:23,489 --> 00:44:29,896
seized by the military. Enraged, Bruce turns
into the Hulk and destroys his lab. Holy cow,

491
00:44:29,916 --> 00:44:35,359
you just blew over so many minutes of runtime
right there. And that's really how simple it

492
00:44:35,379 --> 00:44:41,263
needed to be, honestly. You know, we see almost
the span of a week go by from when we're first

493
00:44:41,303 --> 00:44:45,906
introduced to the adult Bruce Banner to the
time that he turns into the Hulk. And many

494
00:44:45,946 --> 00:44:49,808
of the events that happened across those nights
could have been condensed into the span of

495
00:44:49,948 --> 00:44:54,706
one evening and one night. There's just too
much needless shit. Yeah, I mean, again, the

496
00:44:54,726 --> 00:45:00,788
film could be tighter, absolutely. Who wrote
the movie? James Seamus, along with a few other

497
00:45:00,848 --> 00:45:05,730
credited writers. Has he written anything else
of note? Yeah, he does a lot of work with Ang

498
00:45:05,770 --> 00:45:11,852
Lee. Huh. I really like the scientific setup
that they had for Bruce getting bombarded by

499
00:45:11,892 --> 00:45:16,733
the gamma radiation. I thought it was a great
modern update where, you know, instead of.

500
00:45:17,226 --> 00:45:22,810
working with this nuclear device, Bruce was
experimenting with nanomeds and that gamma

501
00:45:22,830 --> 00:45:28,675
sphere that in real life is used to observe
gamma rays, but in this movie it like projected

502
00:45:28,715 --> 00:45:33,659
them. It was all really cool. Yeah, I mean,
the whole thing felt very believable. Like

503
00:45:33,699 --> 00:45:38,022
I've never been to Berkeley, I don't know anyone
who's studied at Berkeley or done research

504
00:45:38,042 --> 00:45:43,838
there, but it felt like a legit research team
and lab. Yeah, for sure. I think that was due

505
00:45:43,858 --> 00:45:47,661
in part because Ang Lee's wife is a scientist,
if I remember that correctly. And she was a

506
00:45:47,721 --> 00:45:52,443
consultant on all that stuff. Oh, nice. What
did you think of the Hulk's first transformation?

507
00:45:52,943 --> 00:45:58,146
I thought it was kind of stupid. The first major
catalyst that turns him into the Hulk was tripping

508
00:45:58,206 --> 00:46:02,429
over a bucket of water. I thought that was kind
of ridiculous. But then the way they portrayed

509
00:46:02,469 --> 00:46:07,552
his transformation where he's like digging into
the wall and slowly growing, and you don't

510
00:46:07,572 --> 00:46:10,913
really get to see him because it's so dark and
everything like that, I thought that was handled.

511
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:15,511
really well seeing the Hulk for the first time
trash the lab, throw the gamma sphere out of

512
00:46:15,531 --> 00:46:20,012
the building and jump through the roof of the
building and all that stuff. Phenomenal. I

513
00:46:20,052 --> 00:46:24,113
mean, if I stepped in a bucket of water and
almost tripped, I'd be pretty upset too. I'm

514
00:46:24,133 --> 00:46:31,155
just saying. But no, I mean, a lot of this first
scene we see with him is in the dark, which

515
00:46:31,175 --> 00:46:35,616
I'm sure helped with the special effects, but
also kept like an air of mystery around the

516
00:46:35,656 --> 00:46:41,298
character. It was a great teaser for what was
to come. I agree. Yeah. There is one thing

517
00:46:41,358 --> 00:46:46,542
I want to mention real quick. Their assistant
in their lab. Why the hell not just name him

518
00:46:46,622 --> 00:46:51,205
Rick Jones? I don't fucking know, man. You should
have been named Rick Jones. Like who's this

519
00:46:51,245 --> 00:46:56,909
Harper guy? Back to the movie. Betty finds Bruce
unconscious at his home the next morning. Her

520
00:46:56,949 --> 00:47:01,352
father, General Thunderbolt Ross arrives and
places Bruce on house arrest, causing Betty

521
00:47:01,392 --> 00:47:06,196
to visit with David to learn what's going on.
He steals her scarf for her scent. And later

522
00:47:06,216 --> 00:47:11,688
that night, sixes gamma mutated dogs on her.
calling Bruce to tell him what he did. Angered,

523
00:47:11,788 --> 00:47:16,472
Bruce transforms into the Hulk and smashes his
military guards, escaping house arrest to Betty's

524
00:47:16,512 --> 00:47:21,256
cabin. Hulk fights and kills the Gamma Dogs
to protect Betty, who learns what Bruce has

525
00:47:21,316 --> 00:47:27,821
become. Ah, the infamous Gamma Dogs. Yeah, the
Hulk Dogs are actually an element from the

526
00:47:27,881 --> 00:47:33,206
comics. There was a brief storyline where Hulk
went up against a bunch of Gamma-irradiated

527
00:47:33,306 --> 00:47:38,318
pit bulls who had spiked collars and everything.
Totally worked in the comics. did not work

528
00:47:38,418 --> 00:47:42,980
in this movie. I think maybe because they used
other breeds like French poodles and stuff

529
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,502
like that, which just made the whole thing seem
a little bit more ridiculous. I think if David

530
00:47:47,522 --> 00:47:53,024
Banner owned pit bulls exclusively, it might've
seemed like more of a less cheesy fight. That

531
00:47:53,044 --> 00:47:57,966
being said, the way he demolished those dogs
was pretty epic. Yeah, they kind of just exploded

532
00:47:58,026 --> 00:48:02,868
in a cloud of green, which makes sense because
you don't want to show actual exploding dogs.

533
00:48:02,948 --> 00:48:08,326
And I guess they were unstable, apparently.
Yeah. The next day... Betty contacts her father,

534
00:48:08,366 --> 00:48:13,347
whose men incapacitate and capture Bruce, taking
him to their desert base. There, Betty tries

535
00:48:13,387 --> 00:48:17,688
to help Bruce overcome his childhood trauma,
believing his emotional distress is triggering

536
00:48:17,728 --> 00:48:24,170
his transformations. Meanwhile, David uses Bruce's
research on himself, recreating the lab accident

537
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:28,891
and transforming himself into the absorbing
man, capable of taking on the properties of

538
00:48:28,931 --> 00:48:33,213
whatever he touches. Using his new powers, he
kills a lab security guard.

539
00:48:36,694 --> 00:48:41,176
back to his childhood home. I like the cinematography
particularly in the shot because you can tell

540
00:48:41,196 --> 00:48:46,398
they used natural lighting. And I thought it
was a great bit of mystery that was being uncovered

541
00:48:46,418 --> 00:48:50,880
there. I mean, the audience was largely clued
in on to what the mystery was. Obviously something

542
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:55,323
happened to his parents within that room. And
so your mind automatically goes to, you know,

543
00:48:55,703 --> 00:49:00,525
his father killed his mother. But I thought
it was one of the best scenes of Eric Banner's

544
00:49:00,705 --> 00:49:05,619
acting. when you could see the emotional distress
that he was in just being in the house and

545
00:49:05,659 --> 00:49:10,640
approaching the door where it all happened.
Yeah, he was afraid of it, right? Yeah. And

546
00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:15,742
I think throughout the whole film, they did
a good job of sort of setting up the intrigue

547
00:49:15,782 --> 00:49:21,343
of what happened behind that door. Again, I
watched this with my family this last round

548
00:49:21,623 --> 00:49:26,685
and it was the first time any of them had ever
seen any of it. And yeah, they were like edge

549
00:49:26,705 --> 00:49:31,931
of their seats waiting to find out what exactly
happened. What did you think of the scene where

550
00:49:32,051 --> 00:49:36,353
David Banner becomes the absorbing man? You
know, like he cuts his hand and you see the

551
00:49:36,393 --> 00:49:41,777
blood turn into like this jellyfish thing and
then heal itself like a starfish and then take

552
00:49:41,797 --> 00:49:45,939
on the properties of the metal steel girder
that was there. I remember that stuff being

553
00:49:45,979 --> 00:49:52,283
like so mind trippy in the theater when I first
saw the film. It still is. I mean, it still

554
00:49:52,323 --> 00:49:59,183
does not look CG. It looks real to me. And such
a unique I think way to portray the absorbing

555
00:49:59,223 --> 00:50:04,187
man's powers. Like you compare that to the absorbing
man in the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. television

556
00:50:04,207 --> 00:50:09,330
show who was much more comic accurate, but I
think lacked a little bit of the wonder with

557
00:50:09,390 --> 00:50:14,694
how his power set was presented in this movie.
Just like the way his hand was like merged

558
00:50:14,834 --> 00:50:20,878
with that blue iron, whatever the hell that
was, but just hearing it squeak against like

559
00:50:21,298 --> 00:50:26,302
his molecules against that, it was incredible.
Yeah, great sound design for sure. And the

560
00:50:26,322 --> 00:50:31,346
way he killed the guard by merging his foot
with the metal grating underneath and also

561
00:50:31,386 --> 00:50:35,910
merging with the electrical panel beside him,
it was pretty inventive and pretty brutal.

562
00:50:36,370 --> 00:50:40,954
Like honestly, with powers like that, I'd be
like, you know, I'm fine. Like, I don't need

563
00:50:41,155 --> 00:50:46,519
my son and his Hulk power to like power me up
even more. Like, this is hella dope already.

564
00:50:46,659 --> 00:50:51,322
Yeah. Yeah, he got greedy. He just wanted more
power. Betty's work with Bruce is cut short

565
00:50:51,362 --> 00:50:56,223
by the private research company Atheon, led
by former Army Major Glenn Talbot who wants

566
00:50:56,243 --> 00:51:01,545
to weaponize the Hulk. Talbot triggers a transformation
by Bruce into the Hulk who proceeds to destroy

567
00:51:01,565 --> 00:51:07,047
the base with Talbot getting killed in the process.
Hulk escapes out into the desert where Thunderbolt

568
00:51:07,147 --> 00:51:12,948
attempts to destroy him using tanks and helicopters.
Meanwhile David visits Betty telling her that

569
00:51:12,988 --> 00:51:17,718
he will turn himself in if she can get her father
to arrange one last meeting with Bruce. This

570
00:51:17,738 --> 00:51:24,061
whole scene from when he transforms into the
Hulk is one huge long action scene. Like, it's

571
00:51:24,121 --> 00:51:29,464
incredibly long. I don't know if it needed to
be that long, because as cool as like the escape

572
00:51:29,484 --> 00:51:34,827
from the military base was, once he's out in
the desert, it starts to feel a little repetitive.

573
00:51:35,207 --> 00:51:39,790
And I know that those scenes are probably what
everyone loves about the movie, but to me that's

574
00:51:39,830 --> 00:51:44,232
where the movie got kind of boring. That's so
weird. It's so weird that you're knocking the

575
00:51:44,272 --> 00:51:48,431
few scenes that people actually really love
about this film. You know, Hulk going up against

576
00:51:48,511 --> 00:51:53,675
the tanks and going up against the helicopters,
throwing tanks to the horizon and chomping

577
00:51:53,715 --> 00:51:57,718
on missiles and spitting them out, stuff like
that. That was everything every Hulk fan ever

578
00:51:57,738 --> 00:52:03,183
wanted to see. In that sense, this Hulk movie
absolutely delivered. I mean, it's not all

579
00:52:03,223 --> 00:52:09,188
bad. It's not, it's all good. What do you mean
it's not all bad? It's all fucking fantastic.

580
00:52:09,388 --> 00:52:14,192
I feel like it goes on for like half an hour
though. Like he jumps away and then they find

581
00:52:14,232 --> 00:52:20,037
him again and then he jumps away and then they
find him again. There is no limit to how much

582
00:52:20,137 --> 00:52:24,861
audiences, I think, enjoy seeing the Hulk smash
stuff. That's really what they came to see

583
00:52:24,921 --> 00:52:29,445
and I think that's why a lot of audiences were
disappointed in this film. Again, I understand.

584
00:52:29,946 --> 00:52:34,790
I just think that audiences are wrong. That's
not the most interesting thing about the Hulk.

585
00:52:35,211 --> 00:52:40,114
The only thing I didn't like about these scenes
was the jumping physics. You know Hulk has

586
00:52:40,154 --> 00:52:46,936
the ability to leap vast distances and while
I'm no expert It did seem like the animated

587
00:52:46,976 --> 00:52:51,057
physics of that were off I thought they were
much more believable in other films, especially

588
00:52:51,097 --> 00:52:55,799
like the Avengers film where you saw the Hulk
taking on the Chitauri There it really seemed

589
00:52:55,839 --> 00:52:59,600
like he had weight in half to him in the way
that he moved and in the way that he landed

590
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,021
Here it was almost like he was floating like
he was a an inflatable balloon or something

591
00:53:04,854 --> 00:53:09,455
Back to the movie, after evading a destruction
by the army, Hulk makes his way to San Francisco,

592
00:53:09,816 --> 00:53:14,878
where Betty confronts him and causes him to
revert back to Bruce. Taken to a military base

593
00:53:14,918 --> 00:53:19,280
outside the city, Bruce and David meet while
confined to a device meant to incinerate them

594
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,442
with an electromagnetic array if the Hulk comes
out. David reveals to Bruce that his cells

595
00:53:24,462 --> 00:53:29,984
have transformed too, and he requests to absorb
the Hulk's power in order to destroy the military

596
00:53:30,124 --> 00:53:36,735
and the government. and David bites into a high
voltage cable, transforming into electricity,

597
00:53:37,115 --> 00:53:42,156
and zapping himself and the Hulk out of the
base. The San Francisco scene was pretty interesting.

598
00:53:42,476 --> 00:53:49,539
The moment where Hulk is taken up into the upper
atmosphere by a jet that he jumped on to save

599
00:53:49,579 --> 00:53:53,780
the Golden Gate Bridge. Well, one, it was interesting
because it was one of the few actually heroic

600
00:53:53,860 --> 00:53:58,921
actions the Hulk performs in the film. Right.
But two, it just seemed like a very epic...

601
00:53:59,366 --> 00:54:05,710
moments to have this pilot attempting to carry
this monster out into space. Right, yeah. So

602
00:54:05,970 --> 00:54:10,713
before starting the movie, my youngest daughter,
Faith, she asked me if the Hulk was a good

603
00:54:10,733 --> 00:54:15,157
guy or a bad guy, because she didn't know. Because
I guess he comes across, you know, as a little

604
00:54:15,177 --> 00:54:21,221
bit scary. Yeah. And I had a hard time answering
that question, especially in setup for this

605
00:54:21,321 --> 00:54:26,664
film. I think the scene of him saving the Golden
Gate Bridge is important in terms of making

606
00:54:26,705 --> 00:54:31,495
him come across like a hero. but I also think
it felt kind of tacked on to the story just

607
00:54:31,575 --> 00:54:36,877
for that purpose. And I'm not sure whether that's
a good thing or a bad thing. To me, this isn't

608
00:54:36,977 --> 00:54:42,900
a superhero movie so much as just a comic book
movie about the story of this tragic figure.

609
00:54:43,801 --> 00:54:49,863
I would say that the Hulk is a monster who is
feared, but he's not bad and capable of heroic

610
00:54:49,963 --> 00:54:54,325
actions. Sometimes his actions get confused
with villainy. And of course he causes a lot

611
00:54:54,365 --> 00:54:59,547
of property damage, but in the few instances
that he has caused civilian casualties, it's

612
00:54:59,587 --> 00:55:05,549
always been a real tragic moment for the character.
Yeah. What did you think of the falling dream

613
00:55:05,609 --> 00:55:10,411
sequence where Bruce is back to shaving and
then he busts through the mirror? Well, like

614
00:55:10,451 --> 00:55:15,532
you mentioned before, it's kind of a silly scene.
Honestly, I feel like they put that in the

615
00:55:15,552 --> 00:55:20,354
movie because of how well received the teaser
for the film was. Because it was essentially

616
00:55:20,394 --> 00:55:25,956
the same scene except instead of his house exploding,
he just kind of crashes into the water. It

617
00:55:25,996 --> 00:55:30,498
seems like they knew the fans wanted to hear
the Hulk say something and they just didn't

618
00:55:30,518 --> 00:55:35,040
know where to insert a shot of him saying puny
banner. So they were like, why don't we just

619
00:55:35,060 --> 00:55:37,621
stick it in this moment where he's falling?
And all of a sudden, you know, it's like a

620
00:55:37,681 --> 00:55:44,084
dream sequence. That's probably literally what
happened. Totally weird. The shot where David

621
00:55:44,104 --> 00:55:48,610
Banner bites into the electric cable and turns
into this electric monster. I actually thought

622
00:55:48,750 --> 00:55:55,013
that they were merging the character of Absorbing
Man and Zax, who is a Hulk villain composed

623
00:55:55,054 --> 00:55:59,336
entirely out of electrical energy. And I was
really glad to see the Absorbing Man taking

624
00:55:59,456 --> 00:56:04,959
on other things too, like stone and water. Yeah.
But back to the story. The Hulk and Absorbing

625
00:56:04,979 --> 00:56:10,102
Man land at a desert lake where the two fight.
Though Hulk smashes David's rock form, his

626
00:56:10,202 --> 00:56:16,585
water form pulls Hulk underwater. Hulk resists
his power being absorbed, but eventually acquiesces.

627
00:56:16,958 --> 00:56:21,839
letting his father absorb all his energy. The
absorbing man finds the power too much to contain

628
00:56:21,879 --> 00:56:27,180
however and balloons into an unstable mass.
Meanwhile, General Thunderbolt Ross orders

629
00:56:27,220 --> 00:56:32,182
the two to be bombed with a gamma explosive
and Bruce and David are presumed dead. What

630
00:56:32,202 --> 00:56:38,723
did you think of the end fight? I think this
was sort of a precursor to showing why Cloud

631
00:56:38,763 --> 00:56:44,905
villains don't really work. By that I mean villains
like Galactus in the Fantastic Four, Rise of

632
00:56:44,945 --> 00:56:52,247
the Silver Surfer, parallax in the Green Lantern
movie. They just become so inhuman and unintelligible

633
00:56:52,447 --> 00:56:58,289
in form for audiences to really understand or
care about what's going on. It makes me wonder

634
00:56:58,349 --> 00:57:04,451
what would have happened to David Banner if
he wasn't in a liquid state as he was absorbing

635
00:57:04,711 --> 00:57:08,812
all of Hulk's energy. Like what if he was still
in rock form? What would he have looked like

636
00:57:08,972 --> 00:57:14,153
as he became unstable? Probably like a huge
massive green glowing rocks almost like Kryptonite,

637
00:57:14,233 --> 00:57:19,156
I guess. But I still don't think his form would
have been able to handle all of the power.

638
00:57:19,456 --> 00:57:25,399
I liked the idea of it, and I think it maybe
worked on paper, but visually towards the end,

639
00:57:25,619 --> 00:57:31,602
after the rock transformation, it was very abstract.
I was under the interpretation that he did

640
00:57:31,642 --> 00:57:36,805
give his dad all of his power, but once the
gamma bomb went off, it kind of re-triggered

641
00:57:36,905 --> 00:57:40,887
the Hulk's mutation, I guess. Exposed it to
him again? You could be correct in that regard.

642
00:57:41,127 --> 00:57:47,951
Maybe the additional gamma exposure made Hulk...
more of a dark green and gave him an anime

643
00:57:47,971 --> 00:57:53,934
haircut and transformed Eric Banner into more
of a Edward Norton looking guy. Over time.

644
00:57:55,655 --> 00:57:59,858
Back to the movie though, one year later General
Thunderbolt Ross calls Betty to see if she's

645
00:57:59,918 --> 00:58:04,480
seen or heard from Bruce since the incident
and Betty tells him she wouldn't say even if

646
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:09,483
she had. Meanwhile, Bruce is revealed to be
alive, hiding out in the Amazon rainforest

647
00:58:09,603 --> 00:58:14,682
as a medical camp doctor. When confronted by
soldiers seeking to steal his supplies, He

648
00:58:14,722 --> 00:58:18,304
warns them that they wouldn't like him when
he's angry. And that's the end of the film.

649
00:58:18,704 --> 00:58:25,609
So all in all, Jonathan, I think you like this
movie way too much. Hell yeah I do. I think

650
00:58:25,669 --> 00:58:29,612
history will prove you, actually I already think
history has proven you wrong. While the film

651
00:58:29,672 --> 00:58:35,696
has a cult following, it's largely derided as
inferior to the MCU version of the Hulk. And

652
00:58:35,856 --> 00:58:41,560
yeah, you're just wrong. You're just wrong.
I mean, not everything could be MCU candy-coated

653
00:58:41,820 --> 00:58:48,629
fucking jokes every five seconds. I miss Marvel
films like this. It just takes itself seriously

654
00:58:49,090 --> 00:58:55,095
and it's done so well and it's so cinematic.
The way they made Betty and Bruce, almost like

655
00:58:55,135 --> 00:59:00,359
star-crossed lovers with like the feuding fathers
and stuff like that, again, Shakespearean.

656
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:05,624
It's just so good and nothing like it has been
done since in Marvel. I mean, there's Logan,

657
00:59:05,664 --> 00:59:09,647
of course, but that's probably the exception.
What about the Eternals? I would say that the

658
00:59:09,807 --> 00:59:15,270
Eternals movie is highly comparable in its approach.
Mm, no, the Eternals is just a rip off of the

659
00:59:15,310 --> 00:59:22,513
Justice League. Like the Hulk is like an original
good character. OK. Like there were a lot of

660
00:59:22,553 --> 00:59:27,654
people who didn't like my favorite movie of
all time. 2001, a space odyssey. I don't listen

661
00:59:27,694 --> 00:59:33,656
to the haters. I know what's good. There's a
difference between objective quality and subjective

662
00:59:33,696 --> 00:59:39,150
feelings. I think you confuse your subjective
feelings for objective quality. But again,

663
00:59:39,290 --> 00:59:44,093
when you look beyond just the entertainment
value of the film, when you look at the gorgeous

664
00:59:44,113 --> 00:59:50,357
direction, the ambitious editing, the stellar
performances, and the Shakespearean level story,

665
00:59:50,877 --> 00:59:57,301
those things are objectively good. I'm sorry
it wasn't as Ban-Pow, Smash as you wanted.

666
00:59:57,982 --> 01:00:03,625
There's other films for that, other Hulk films,
but I think this is an important piece of comic

667
01:00:03,645 --> 01:00:08,608
book cinema. And, you know, saying you didn't
like it isn't going to convince me otherwise.

668
01:00:08,628 --> 01:00:13,472
I'm not saying I didn't like it. You say it's
objectively good. I say it's objectively mixed.

669
01:00:13,932 --> 01:00:18,816
There's definitely some problems with the film.
The film's artistic ambition, psychological

670
01:00:18,856 --> 01:00:24,320
explorations and fun action get largely lost
in its unnecessarily long runtime and unconventional

671
01:00:24,420 --> 01:00:31,165
editing style. I'm going to rate the film three
stars out of five, a fresh rating on Rotten

672
01:00:31,185 --> 01:00:36,809
Tomatoes. because for as mixed as the movie
is, I would still recommend people seeing it,

673
01:00:36,989 --> 01:00:42,594
if only because, as I mentioned before, it does
something unique within the genre. Absolutely,

674
01:00:42,694 --> 01:00:47,538
and I love seeing that because I've seen so
many superhero films and it's nice to see when

675
01:00:47,558 --> 01:00:53,443
a filmmaker swings for the fences and mostly
succeeds. I think three stars is harsh. I would

676
01:00:53,463 --> 01:00:57,827
give this four stars actually, which is the
same rating I would give Man of Steel. Well,

677
01:00:58,107 --> 01:01:02,495
I mean, Man of Steel was rated way too high
by you. But also I don't think this Hulk movie

678
01:01:02,535 --> 01:01:07,097
was superior to The Incredible Hulk, which came
out in 2008, starring Edward Norton. And that

679
01:01:07,137 --> 01:01:11,219
movie we gave three and a half stars. This falls
right in line with what I like to call the

680
01:01:11,259 --> 01:01:18,824
objective reality scale, not Jonathan's bullshit
scale. Oh my gosh. If you want honest Marvel

681
01:01:18,864 --> 01:01:23,086
reviews, guys, check out our star ratings for
those films. If you want bullshit DC reviews

682
01:01:23,166 --> 01:01:28,289
that are always about a star too high, check
out our DC reviews. A star too high? What?

683
01:01:28,909 --> 01:01:32,827
No. That does it for this review guys, let us
know what you thought about the movie by writing

684
01:01:32,867 --> 01:01:39,009
to us at dyna or by visiting us on Instagram,
which you can find a link to on our show notes

685
01:01:39,169 --> 01:01:44,251
or by visiting our website at dynamicduel.com.
And on our site you can also find a link to

686
01:01:44,271 --> 01:01:49,314
our Patreon page where you can join our Dynamic
2.0 tier and chat with us and fellow listeners,

687
01:01:49,614 --> 01:01:55,016
our Fantastic 4 tier, which gets you bonus content
each month, our X-Force tier that makes you

688
01:01:55,056 --> 01:02:00,826
an executive producer of this podcast, or our
newest tier. that lets you join our Dynamike

689
01:02:00,886 --> 01:02:06,568
Podcast Network. And don't forget guys to rate
this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser,

690
01:02:06,748 --> 01:02:14,671
or on our website. In our next episode, we are
doing our team duel of the Legion of Doom against

691
01:02:14,751 --> 01:02:20,733
the Masters of Evil, the latter team of which
includes Absorbing Man, who is of course the

692
01:02:20,773 --> 01:02:25,971
villain in this Hulk movie. It's going to be
an epic battle. It's basically the evil version

693
01:02:26,011 --> 01:02:29,573
of the Justice League against the evil version
of the Avengers. It's going to be awesome.

694
01:02:29,793 --> 01:02:33,535
We look forward to that next week. That does
it for this episode. We want to give a big

695
01:02:33,575 --> 01:02:38,758
thanks to our executive producers, Ken Johnson,
John Strausky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcombe,

696
01:02:38,898 --> 01:02:44,461
Miggie Mathingian, Brandon Estregard, Nathaniel
Wagner, Levi Yatin, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Dunkerley,

697
01:02:44,681 --> 01:02:50,024
Scott Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Schunk, and
Dean Molesky for helping make this podcast

698
01:02:50,064 --> 01:02:54,214
possible. And we'll talk to you guys next week.
up and away. True believers.