1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:02,957 This is a DynaMic Network podcast. 2 00:00:24,398 --> 00:00:29,202 Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate 3 00:00:29,242 --> 00:00:34,628 the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. 4 00:00:35,028 --> 00:00:40,353 I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are doing a throwback 5 00:00:40,413 --> 00:00:47,580 review to the 1993 animated theatrical film, Batman, Mask of the Phantasm. We were interested 6 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,685 in reviewing it now. because we just got done reviewing X-Men 97. And of course, both that 7 00:00:52,725 --> 00:00:57,969 cartoon and Batman, the animated series for which this film is a tie in to were both popular 8 00:00:58,029 --> 00:01:02,593 Saturday morning cartoons that a lot of us 90s kids grew up with. Yeah, it's a nostalgia episode. 9 00:01:02,953 --> 00:01:07,977 The question is, does Batman mask the phantasm hold up to the animated series in the same 10 00:01:08,017 --> 00:01:13,594 way that X-Men 97 held up to the 90s series? We'll find out later on this episode. Before 11 00:01:13,614 --> 00:01:16,936 that we're going to break down the comic book movie news from this past week, of which there 12 00:01:16,956 --> 00:01:23,801 was only one major news item, and that was the trailer for Venom 3. There was some casting 13 00:01:23,821 --> 00:01:29,506 announcements made for the new Superman movie, but other than Beck Bennett as Steve Lombard, 14 00:01:29,586 --> 00:01:34,069 I didn't really have too much to say about the casting choices. But as always, we list our 15 00:01:34,109 --> 00:01:37,812 segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you 16 00:01:37,832 --> 00:01:42,640 want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent duel simulator AJ9K 17 00:01:42,660 --> 00:01:49,071 has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why hello there, do you want even more 18 00:01:49,091 --> 00:01:53,715 from this podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic duel community on Patreon, where you 19 00:01:53,755 --> 00:01:58,779 can choose from three tiers. The dynamic two-oh tier gives you access to our Discord chat server. 20 00:01:59,179 --> 00:02:03,603 The fantastic four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force tier makes 21 00:02:03,623 --> 00:02:09,167 you an executive producer of this show. Lastly, the Diner Mike podcast network tier lets you 22 00:02:09,187 --> 00:02:13,651 create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop 23 00:02:13,691 --> 00:02:19,236 your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins 24 00:02:19,256 --> 00:02:25,341 your ideas via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com. Check it out at patreon.com slash 25 00:02:25,381 --> 00:02:32,207 dynamicduel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. 26 00:02:32,327 --> 00:02:38,112 Quick note, watching or sharing our YouTube videos actually helps us a lot. We've recently 27 00:02:38,132 --> 00:02:42,256 been putting up some shorts. So make sure to check those out and please subscribe. 28 00:03:08,522 --> 00:03:13,867 On the Sanjo World podcast, host Zachary Heppard speculates on fights between fan favorite anime 29 00:03:13,967 --> 00:03:19,372 and manga characters. The show is currently on a season hiatus, so this is the perfect 30 00:03:19,412 --> 00:03:25,798 time for you anime fans to catch up on Sanjo World's 40 episode library. And on the Console 31 00:03:25,818 --> 00:03:30,042 Combat podcast, hosts John and Dean find out who would win in fights between popular video 32 00:03:30,082 --> 00:03:34,566 game characters. In yesterday's episode, they found out who would win in a fight- between 33 00:03:34,646 --> 00:03:40,447 Mr. Incredible from the Incredibles video game against the Thing from, I'm guessing the 2005 34 00:03:41,047 --> 00:03:46,569 Fantastic Four movie tie-in video game, or maybe like the Thing from the Marvel Nemesis game. 35 00:03:46,769 --> 00:03:51,690 I'm not sure. Either way, sounds like a great matchup. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click 36 00:03:51,710 --> 00:03:56,211 the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network. 37 00:03:56,612 --> 00:04:02,873 But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award Marvel used to 38 00:04:02,893 --> 00:04:08,700 give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram 39 00:04:08,740 --> 00:04:13,423 for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week's question 40 00:04:13,443 --> 00:04:18,666 was, who's your favorite Green Lantern and why? And of course this was coming off of the news 41 00:04:18,706 --> 00:04:23,929 that the showrunners for the upcoming Lanterns television series in the DCU was Damon Lindelof 42 00:04:24,049 --> 00:04:28,331 and Chris Mundy. We got four different answers for this week's question, so we're going to 43 00:04:28,351 --> 00:04:33,766 break down our honorable mentions before announcing this week's No Prize winner. Our first honorable 44 00:04:33,826 --> 00:04:40,188 mention goes to Judson Batty who said, Hi guys, Judson Batty here. I'd say my favorite Green 45 00:04:40,208 --> 00:04:46,070 Latin is Sinestro. I feel like the stories when he is a Green Latin and not yellow in the Sinestro 46 00:04:46,090 --> 00:04:51,592 core just some of the most interesting, whether it's the early ones where he's training how 47 00:04:51,652 --> 00:04:58,691 Jordan or prequels with Abin Suh. or even the new 52 when he gets the Green Lantern ring 48 00:04:58,711 --> 00:05:02,373 back. I feel like they just make for a really interesting reads because it really pushes 49 00:05:02,393 --> 00:05:06,635 the boundaries of what the ring and the core allow to happen. Good to hear from you again, 50 00:05:06,755 --> 00:05:11,878 Jutsson from the land down under. For everyone who is confused by us claiming that Jutsson 51 00:05:11,898 --> 00:05:16,721 was from Austria or from New Zealand, those people need to watch Dumb and Dumber and Flight 52 00:05:16,741 --> 00:05:20,963 of the Conchords. Yeah, totally. But his answer of Sinestro is actually an interesting one, 53 00:05:20,983 --> 00:05:26,006 considering Sinestro is, of course, one of the lead enemies, if not the lead enemy. of the 54 00:05:26,046 --> 00:05:31,287 Green Lantern Corps. He started off as a Green Lantern but then defected, and recently for 55 00:05:31,327 --> 00:05:36,549 a time came back to being a Green Lantern, and even a White Lantern. He's a very complex character, 56 00:05:36,649 --> 00:05:41,330 if you don't know too much about him, I definitely suggest listening to our Sinestro vs Magneto 57 00:05:41,450 --> 00:05:46,952 duel episode. Yeah, he trained Hal Jordan. He was, I think, really good friends with Abin 58 00:05:46,992 --> 00:05:52,913 Sur, who was Hal Jordan's predecessor. And that's pretty much what I remember from your backstory 59 00:05:52,953 --> 00:05:58,287 on him, Jonathan. Wow, you also need to go back and listen to that episode. That was like five 60 00:05:58,347 --> 00:06:03,990 years ago. Come on, give me a break. Good answer, Judson. Our next honorable mention goes to 61 00:06:04,410 --> 00:06:08,692 Mickey Mathingian, who said, it was because of Mickey and my favorite Green Lantern is 62 00:06:08,712 --> 00:06:13,794 Jon Stewart. I think you guys have asked this before, but I'm going to answer it again. He 63 00:06:13,814 --> 00:06:17,715 was my favorite because of the Justice League cartoon. I grew up on that. So he was like 64 00:06:17,735 --> 00:06:23,294 the first Green Lantern I was introduced to. I also just really like his story. with him 65 00:06:23,314 --> 00:06:28,076 being one of DC's first African-American superheroes and the fictional backstory, too, with him 66 00:06:28,096 --> 00:06:33,439 being an architect and a really good sniper. Yeah, thanks, guys. Yeah, I didn't grow up 67 00:06:33,539 --> 00:06:37,521 really with the Justice League cartoon that was a little bit after my time when I was in 68 00:06:37,561 --> 00:06:42,283 high school. So I never really considered Jon Stewart to be like the Green Lantern. But just 69 00:06:42,543 --> 00:06:47,485 from doing this podcast and doing research on the various Green Lanterns for our duel episodes. 70 00:06:48,018 --> 00:06:53,240 Jon Stewart has become my personal favorite Green Lantern. It used to be Kyle Raynor and 71 00:06:53,260 --> 00:06:57,862 then it was Hal Jordan, but I just love the backstory of Jon Stewart, how he's this Green 72 00:06:57,882 --> 00:07:03,005 Lantern of prophecy and yet his military and architecture background kind of blend the best 73 00:07:03,065 --> 00:07:08,587 of all worlds for each of the human Green Lantern characters. If we were left with just one human 74 00:07:08,607 --> 00:07:14,743 Green Lantern, I would definitely pick Jon Stewart. I would agree. I think... between the recent 75 00:07:14,783 --> 00:07:19,786 Green Lantern vs. Quasar episode we did and the Green Lantern Beware My Power animated 76 00:07:19,806 --> 00:07:25,090 feature film. I think Jon Stewart has quickly become my favorite Green Lantern as well. Fantastic 77 00:07:25,190 --> 00:07:31,434 answer, Miggy. Our final honorable mention goes to Cyrus Moore, who said, Hey guys, Cyrus Moore 78 00:07:31,454 --> 00:07:36,157 here. Although my favorite Green Lantern is Kyle Rayner, I feel like he's gonna be a popular 79 00:07:36,337 --> 00:07:42,361 answer. So therefore I'd like to go with Reloc Hag, who is just a really cool Lantern to start 80 00:07:42,381 --> 00:07:48,902 with. He's an alpha lantern. He has a really interesting backstory. He's a centaur. I mean, 81 00:07:48,922 --> 00:07:54,427 you can't get any better than that. Okay, I'm not gonna lie. I had to Google this guy. I 82 00:07:54,467 --> 00:07:59,591 know nothing about him other than he looks like a total badass. Seriously, he has one of the 83 00:07:59,611 --> 00:08:03,975 coolest designs out of any Green Lantern ever. Like I know the Green Lanterns span all the 84 00:08:03,995 --> 00:08:09,079 races in the galaxy and the universe, but this particular centaur race is just a really cool 85 00:08:09,099 --> 00:08:16,024 design. Reloc Hag, it's spelled R-E-L-O-K. H-A-G. If you don't know him, look him up. I think 86 00:08:16,044 --> 00:08:20,247 you'll be similarly impressed. And the fact that he's an alpha lantern, like that just 87 00:08:20,407 --> 00:08:25,551 gives him some extra cred in my book because those guys are awesome. The hell is an alpha 88 00:08:25,591 --> 00:08:30,715 lantern? They're kind of described as the internal affairs of the green lanterns, but they're 89 00:08:30,735 --> 00:08:36,087 essentially elite lanterns. Interesting. Now, Cyrus also mentioned Kyle Rayner, who was your 90 00:08:36,167 --> 00:08:40,910 initial favorite Green Lantern, Jonathan? Yes, yeah, he was the Green Lantern that I personally 91 00:08:40,950 --> 00:08:46,173 grew up with in the comics when I began reading DC Comics. He was, in fact, the only Green 92 00:08:46,193 --> 00:08:51,596 Lantern that existed at that time. So he was my favorite by default. So, great answer, Cyrus. 93 00:08:52,116 --> 00:08:57,639 But the winner of this week's No Prize is... Peter Trull, who said... What's up, Dynamic 94 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:03,915 Dudes, it's Peter. Uh, my favorite Green Lantern has got to be... Hal Jordan easily. He's the 95 00:09:03,995 --> 00:09:08,679 one I grew up on the most and he's literally one of the greatest lanterns of all time. He's 96 00:09:08,719 --> 00:09:13,403 mentioned in different comics, several of them, that he is the greatest lantern. Not even greatest 97 00:09:13,443 --> 00:09:18,968 green lantern, but other lanterns of all the lantern core. Like he is the best. So what 98 00:09:19,028 --> 00:09:23,411 else would you think other than Hal Jordan as the best green lantern of all time? Thanks 99 00:09:23,451 --> 00:09:28,476 guys. So the only reason we didn't give the no prize to Miggie for his answer of Jon Stewart 100 00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:35,673 is because one, I think We have in fact asked this question before, and two, because Hal 101 00:09:35,713 --> 00:09:41,398 Jordan is the iconic Green Lantern. As much as I like Jon Stewart, I have to admit that 102 00:09:41,418 --> 00:09:46,622 when it comes to other forms of media and just, you know, the public perception of the character 103 00:09:46,842 --> 00:09:51,726 with the movie and everything, yeah, everyone knows Hal Jordan as the quintessential Green 104 00:09:51,766 --> 00:09:57,666 Lantern. The dude can wield basically any ring and is just a master of it. I remember you 105 00:09:57,706 --> 00:10:02,750 had a graphic novel called Green Lantern Fear itself, in which there was a segment at the 106 00:10:02,850 --> 00:10:08,093 end where Kyle Rayner and Alan Scott were discussing the greatest Green Lantern of all time, and 107 00:10:08,133 --> 00:10:12,557 they were talking about how Hal Jordan was the best of them. He was, you know, the specter 108 00:10:12,597 --> 00:10:16,419 at the time, he was dead. But I always think back to that when I think about the greatest 109 00:10:16,459 --> 00:10:21,383 Green Lanterns and how if you were to ask the core themselves who the best among them is, 110 00:10:21,583 --> 00:10:25,674 a lot of them would actually pick Hal Jordan. Yeah, maybe. Or they'd be like... Oh, that 111 00:10:25,714 --> 00:10:31,479 guy who killed all of us? Fuck that guy. He redeemed himself. He's all good. He's good. 112 00:10:31,499 --> 00:10:36,363 He was possessed. What are you gonna do? That's true. But great answer, Peter. You win this 113 00:10:36,383 --> 00:10:40,507 week's note prize. If you're the listener, want a shot at winning your own note prize. Stay 114 00:10:40,527 --> 00:10:44,771 tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. And 115 00:10:44,891 --> 00:10:47,213 now that that's done, on to the news. 116 00:10:52,814 --> 00:10:58,279 This past week we got the first official trailer for the Venom The Last Dance movie which is 117 00:10:58,319 --> 00:11:02,603 coming out in October. And right off the bat I just want to talk about my kind of love-hate 118 00:11:02,623 --> 00:11:06,827 relationship with the Venom franchise because I actually really liked the first Venom movie. 119 00:11:06,947 --> 00:11:10,890 As you will learn if you listen to our review I think we gave it about three and a half stars 120 00:11:11,431 --> 00:11:16,436 and then I really disliked the Venom sequel Let There Be Carnage which I think we gave 121 00:11:16,476 --> 00:11:21,771 about two or two and a half stars in our review. This third movie is really just a big question 122 00:11:21,811 --> 00:11:26,275 mark as to whether or not it'll be closer to the first film and what made that so enjoyable 123 00:11:26,675 --> 00:11:32,059 or closer to the second film which was kind of a dumpster fire. And honestly, I couldn't 124 00:11:32,079 --> 00:11:36,143 really tell you judging off of this trailer. It kind of looks like it's a mix of both. There 125 00:11:36,483 --> 00:11:41,847 are some great moments where we see Venom take on a group of criminals running a dog fighting 126 00:11:41,907 --> 00:11:45,902 ring it looks like. The intro to this trailer was really fantastic. But then there were like 127 00:11:45,922 --> 00:11:49,986 these jokes that were sprinkled through that it made me think of the second movie. And one 128 00:11:50,026 --> 00:11:55,591 of the biggest criticisms we had of Venom let there be carnage is that Venom became a parody 129 00:11:55,651 --> 00:12:02,377 of himself. You know, it's always kind of cute and fun to make Venom a quirky character. But 130 00:12:02,437 --> 00:12:06,580 these filmmakers have to understand that they have to do it within reason. You know, if Venom 131 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,700 starts making too many jokes. then he doesn't really feel like who he is from the comics. 132 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,342 You know, the jokes have to be used sparingly and that's how you get the most out of them. 133 00:12:15,762 --> 00:12:21,967 Yeah, I've never really saw Venom as a comedic character. So I was actually taken aback by 134 00:12:22,007 --> 00:12:28,391 the first movie and pretty much despised the second. There are jokes sprinkled in this trailer, 135 00:12:28,431 --> 00:12:34,035 but by this time I'm familiar enough with what they're going with to not entirely hate it. 136 00:12:34,155 --> 00:12:38,698 Honestly, the first time I saw this trailer, I couldn't tell if it was gonna be like over 137 00:12:38,738 --> 00:12:46,303 the top ambitious or actually more low key. It looks like the primary antagonists of this 138 00:12:46,363 --> 00:12:52,648 movie are going to be General Orwell Taylor. It looks like played by Chiwetel Ejiofor who 139 00:12:52,708 --> 00:12:58,532 is in charge of like this elite military symbiote hunting squad called the jury. In the comic 140 00:12:58,572 --> 00:13:03,055 books, the jury were like a bunch of Iron Man knockoffs. Like they literally stole blueprints 141 00:13:03,075 --> 00:13:07,538 to the Iron Man suit and then made their own venom fighting suits of armor. But here they 142 00:13:07,558 --> 00:13:11,679 look a little bit more generic. I'm not sure if that's them being carried on that helicopter 143 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:15,741 and then being dropped into the water to fight Venom, but it really looks like that's who 144 00:13:15,761 --> 00:13:21,323 they are. In addition to the jury and General Taylor, it looks like we're also getting other 145 00:13:21,383 --> 00:13:27,586 symbiotes and the xenophage who are alien monsters that actually feed off of symbiotes. We see 146 00:13:27,686 --> 00:13:33,308 one attack Venom on top of an airplane, which was a pretty crazy looking scene. So it's interesting 147 00:13:33,348 --> 00:13:38,771 that Venom is kind of facing threats from both sides. The humans coming after him in the form 148 00:13:38,811 --> 00:13:42,793 of General Taylor and the jury and the clintar coming after him in the form of other symbiotes 149 00:13:42,813 --> 00:13:47,476 in the xenophage. So Eddie Brock looks like he's being put through the wringer even more 150 00:13:47,516 --> 00:13:52,098 so than he usually is in these films and you know, he goes through a lot physically throughout 151 00:13:52,118 --> 00:13:55,701 the course of this franchise. And Tom Hardy I think does a fantastic job of portraying 152 00:13:55,741 --> 00:13:59,783 the wear and tear that the symbiote takes on his body and the duelity of the character and 153 00:13:59,823 --> 00:14:03,605 everything. And that's definitely one of the things I'm looking forward to the most and 154 00:14:03,645 --> 00:14:07,503 seeing. in this upcoming movie because these characters have been through a lot together. 155 00:14:07,903 --> 00:14:11,724 Yeah, Eddie Brock and the symbiote, there's a bromance there. It's almost like a buddy 156 00:14:11,765 --> 00:14:15,606 comedy in a way that the way they play off each other. And there were definitely some like 157 00:14:15,726 --> 00:14:20,588 iconic scenes in this trailer that kind of played up on that with like Eddie Brock trying to 158 00:14:20,628 --> 00:14:24,910 master the we are venom line with venom. That was weird because they did it correctly in 159 00:14:24,930 --> 00:14:29,512 the first movie. So you think they would, you know, have it down already. That's true. But 160 00:14:29,552 --> 00:14:36,490 also, I'm thinking of Eddie Brock riding the venom symbiote horse. That was pretty cool. 161 00:14:36,691 --> 00:14:42,474 I remember there was a moment in the Venom comics when Flash Thompson was Agent Venom. He had 162 00:14:42,514 --> 00:14:46,536 acquired the symbiote at the time and he had used the symbiote in a bunch of weird ways, 163 00:14:46,776 --> 00:14:51,759 including some ways that I hate. Like he turned a car that he was driving into the Venomobile 164 00:14:51,779 --> 00:14:56,341 by having the symbiote take over the car, which I thought was kind of bullshit because a car 165 00:14:56,401 --> 00:15:02,405 is not an organic being. The way they had the symbiote take over a horse makes so much more 166 00:15:02,445 --> 00:15:07,663 sense to me and I think just works. really well. I can't wait to see the venom horse in the 167 00:15:07,683 --> 00:15:13,725 movie. How do you feel about General Taylor apparently being a variant of Baron Mordo? 168 00:15:14,865 --> 00:15:18,786 Because of the casting? Yeah. That's a little weird right? You know if we're talking about 169 00:15:18,826 --> 00:15:23,888 the multiverse, there's a very strange shot in this trailer that I know a lot of people 170 00:15:23,908 --> 00:15:29,329 are talking about where we see General Taylor acquire the sample from the bar in Mexico that 171 00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:35,494 Eddie Brock left behind in the end credits scene for Spider-Man No Way Home. Apparently that 172 00:15:35,534 --> 00:15:40,577 piece of symbiote was left behind in the Marvel Cinematic Universe apart from the Sonyverse 173 00:15:41,118 --> 00:15:46,682 and yet we see General Taylor somehow acquiring that sample. It's really unclear what's going 174 00:15:46,742 --> 00:15:51,125 on here, whether or not Eddie Brock leaving the sample behind in the MCU is going to be 175 00:15:51,225 --> 00:15:55,628 retconned to have been actually left behind in the Sonyverse or what the hell is going 176 00:15:55,689 --> 00:16:01,962 on? Who the hell knows? Yeah, Marvel and Sony's relationship right now is like really weird. 177 00:16:02,102 --> 00:16:08,447 It's like, are they together? Aren't they? It's a situationship, as the kids are saying these 178 00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:13,112 days, and that extends into, you know, the upcoming Spider-Man four and everything like that. But 179 00:16:13,632 --> 00:16:18,977 I'm really interested in seeing how this movie even pertains to the multiverse or if it even 180 00:16:19,057 --> 00:16:25,018 does. And if so, how Tom Holland is going to get the symbiote, if he will. If that's going 181 00:16:25,038 --> 00:16:29,580 to happen in Secret War, that would be really cool. But yeah, we'll see what happens. It 182 00:16:29,620 --> 00:16:34,663 was really cool to see Detective Mulligan back as Toxin, although we didn't get to see him 183 00:16:34,703 --> 00:16:40,507 in his Toxin form in this trailer. But we know that he acquired the symbiote, which was an 184 00:16:40,687 --> 00:16:45,730 offshoot of the Carnage symbiote in the last movie. It'll be interesting to see how he factors 185 00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:49,732 into the story, whether or not, you know, like he's the one that's reaching out to the Klintar 186 00:16:49,752 --> 00:16:53,790 home planet and bringing all these aliens or not. but he does say that as long as Venom 187 00:16:53,870 --> 00:17:00,252 lives, everyone, everything will end. So the trailer really tries to sell us on the idea 188 00:17:00,272 --> 00:17:05,233 that Venom or Eddie Brock may be dying in this movie. I'm not really buying it. You know, 189 00:17:05,293 --> 00:17:09,835 even the poster says, till death do they part. I don't think either Eddie Brock or Venom are 190 00:17:09,895 --> 00:17:14,736 actually dying, but it is a great way to try to, you know, convince people to come see it 191 00:17:14,756 --> 00:17:18,497 in the theaters, considering that most likely, you know, this will be the last Venom movie. 192 00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:22,852 I'm really hoping though that he still shows up maybe in a Spider-Man movie, but we'll see. 193 00:17:23,332 --> 00:17:29,297 Yeah, anytime studios say that something is the and now, I'm like, but is it? I mean, Hugh 194 00:17:29,337 --> 00:17:34,220 Jackman's coming back as Wolverine. Right. Yeah, that can happen. Anything can happen. But again, 195 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,343 the movie comes out on October 25th of this year. We'll see if it's more of the first Venom 196 00:17:39,383 --> 00:17:45,347 movie or more like the second Venom movie as it closes out this trilogy of films. But speaking 197 00:17:45,387 --> 00:17:47,869 of trilogies, that brings us to our question of the week. 198 00:17:52,406 --> 00:17:58,867 What Marvel or DC character do you think has had the most successful trilogy of films and 199 00:17:58,947 --> 00:18:04,889 why? And we'll go ahead and count characters that have had four films, such as Thor or Superman, 200 00:18:04,989 --> 00:18:09,410 you know, just count like the first three films of their franchise, and we want to know which 201 00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:13,711 one you thought was the best. And that includes old franchises too. Can't wait to hear you 202 00:18:13,751 --> 00:18:19,153 guys' answers! Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in 203 00:18:19,193 --> 00:18:22,910 the bottom right-hand corner of the screen. which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. 204 00:18:23,311 --> 00:18:26,772 Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case 205 00:18:26,812 --> 00:18:31,755 we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic 206 00:18:31,775 --> 00:18:37,017 duel no prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before June 15th. 207 00:18:44,322 --> 00:18:47,748 That does it for all the news for this episode, now let's go ahead and move on to the main 208 00:18:47,788 --> 00:18:54,301 event where we review the 1993 animated film, Batman Mask of the Phantasm. 209 00:19:09,570 --> 00:19:15,813 Alright, Batman Mask of the Phantasm was a 1993 animated film that, unlike a vast majority 210 00:19:15,833 --> 00:19:21,937 of DC's animated projects, had a theatrical release. It was a feature film tie-in to the 211 00:19:21,977 --> 00:19:27,240 popular 90s animated television series, and though I didn't see this movie in theaters 212 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,903 when it came out, I became aware of the critical hype surrounding this film as I got older and 213 00:19:32,943 --> 00:19:37,851 still saw the movie when I was relatively young. This was after I read Frank Miller's Batman 214 00:19:37,871 --> 00:19:44,476 Year One comic arc, however, which came out in 1987. When the movie came out in 1993, Mask 215 00:19:44,496 --> 00:19:50,841 of the Phantasm was the closest thing non-comic readers had to an origin of sorts for how Bruce 216 00:19:50,861 --> 00:19:56,686 Wayne became Batman until Batman Begins. In my opinion though, and this is the same opinion 217 00:19:56,806 --> 00:20:03,151 I had when I first saw the movie, Phantasm is kinda over-hyped and comparatively not as good 218 00:20:03,392 --> 00:20:10,372 as Batman Year One, Batman Begins, and other tales of Batman's origin. It's also not terrible, 219 00:20:10,432 --> 00:20:15,255 however. It's not bad. It's actually pretty good. I want to be clear. I'd still recommend 220 00:20:15,275 --> 00:20:19,677 it to people, so if you haven't seen it yet, you should consider checking it out before 221 00:20:19,717 --> 00:20:25,360 we get into spoilers in this review. Yeah, I mean, if you're a 90s kid, you most certainly 222 00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:30,223 have already seen this film because it was pretty ubiquitous along with the television show back 223 00:20:30,263 --> 00:20:34,625 when we were children. I think we first saw this movie at home back in the glory days of 224 00:20:34,665 --> 00:20:40,095 VHS. Yes, yeah, I think that's correct. Just for some quick backstory regarding the film, 225 00:20:40,556 --> 00:20:45,518 Mask of the Phantasm was made because Warner Brothers sought to capitalize on the success 226 00:20:45,598 --> 00:20:52,000 Fox was having with the WB Batman character in Batman the Animated Series, which Warner 227 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,943 Brothers let Fox use for that series and which debuted on television a year prior to this 228 00:20:56,983 --> 00:21:03,005 film's release. The film was originally intended to be released directly to video, though halfway 229 00:21:03,025 --> 00:21:08,520 through production, Warner Bros. decided to release the film in theaters, forcing the animators 230 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:14,524 to meet a highly aggressive production schedule. And for as much praise as I've seen critics 231 00:21:14,544 --> 00:21:20,227 give this film in regards to its stylish animation, I feel like they just hadn't seen much animation 232 00:21:20,307 --> 00:21:25,610 back then in general. Because by this point, we'd already had groundbreaking animated films 233 00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:32,278 like Akira and Mask of the Phantasm seems super basic in comparison. Well... Yeah, there was 234 00:21:32,318 --> 00:21:38,923 a lot of 80s anime stuff that was truly groundbreaking in how they approached more mature subject 235 00:21:38,963 --> 00:21:44,227 matter in the medium of animated film. This movie was animated exactly like how the Saturday 236 00:21:44,267 --> 00:21:47,970 Morning Cartoon was, maybe with a little bit more detail and frames and everything like 237 00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:54,515 that. But I think if you had never been exposed to that sort of 1940s minimalistic style, you 238 00:21:54,535 --> 00:21:59,499 would still be impressed by it. Yeah, I've seen a few critics. praise its Art Deco style, but 239 00:21:59,539 --> 00:22:03,182 I'm like, well, have you not been watching the cartoon? Because it's there as well. It's awesome. 240 00:22:03,242 --> 00:22:09,148 I agree. Bruce Tim's style will always be iconic to me. The Art Deco style is one of my favorite 241 00:22:09,168 --> 00:22:14,132 styles by far. And while I'm glad that we've kind of moved past it, I understand why it 242 00:22:14,192 --> 00:22:19,517 became so influential to a lot of DC animated work in the following decades. Yeah, that sort 243 00:22:19,557 --> 00:22:25,410 of retrofuturism is a pretty awesome style that I think suits DC really well. Now from start 244 00:22:25,450 --> 00:22:31,631 to finish, the entire film was completed in only eight months, which is insane. It's actually 245 00:22:31,651 --> 00:22:38,493 pretty interesting. Half the movie was animated in a 4-3 aspect ratio intended for squarish 246 00:22:38,553 --> 00:22:43,675 television screens from that time. So to meet the animation deadline, the production studios 247 00:22:43,695 --> 00:22:50,176 had to simply crop their work into a wider 16 by 9 ratio for theater screens. So there's 248 00:22:50,196 --> 00:22:54,942 a lot that was animated that was left on the cutting room floor of sorts. but that full 249 00:22:54,982 --> 00:23:00,126 version is a special feature on the digital and disc versions of the movie. I like watching 250 00:23:00,166 --> 00:23:05,371 it in the 4-3 ratio largely because I don't think the scale of the film really suits a 251 00:23:05,411 --> 00:23:10,295 theatrical format. To me, this movie always played like an extended two or three part television 252 00:23:10,335 --> 00:23:16,140 series episode. Yes, I agree. I definitely agree. There was just a kind of a lack of spectacle. 253 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,384 As good as the story is, I just don't think it holds a candle to some of the spectacles 254 00:23:20,544 --> 00:23:25,628 that we get from animated films. But certainly today, but you know, even in the early 2000s 255 00:23:26,148 --> 00:23:31,311 and stuff. Yeah, it's lacking spectacle. It's lacking a number of things. I've always felt 256 00:23:31,512 --> 00:23:36,975 like the Batman mask of the fantasy movie was missing something. And in doing my research 257 00:23:37,035 --> 00:23:43,600 for this review, I realized what that was. Arguably, you could say fantasy was a work of corporate 258 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:49,295 passion rather than artistic passion. Bruce Timm created Batman the animated series to 259 00:23:49,335 --> 00:23:55,118 tell Batman's iconic comic stories in a similar fashion as the Max Fleischer Superman cartoons 260 00:23:55,139 --> 00:24:00,382 that he grew up with. But Phantasm was something of a cash grab by Warner Brothers in the same 261 00:24:00,402 --> 00:24:06,745 way the Hobbit films or the Matrix Resurrections or the Fantastic Beasts films were. Those films 262 00:24:06,785 --> 00:24:11,968 just lacked the same creative spirit and life that the filmmakers breathed into the films 263 00:24:12,008 --> 00:24:17,564 that inspired those other works. I think that's especially evident in Mask of the Phantasm 264 00:24:17,644 --> 00:24:22,069 because none of the story elements ended up being carried over to the animated series itself. 265 00:24:22,569 --> 00:24:27,414 Because there are a lot of unanswered questions by the end of the film that good writers, if 266 00:24:27,434 --> 00:24:32,619 they cared enough, would have answered, such as, you know, where did Andrea Beaumont get 267 00:24:32,659 --> 00:24:38,264 her powers? Or why did Bruce specifically choose the symbol of the bat? Or even what happened 268 00:24:38,304 --> 00:24:42,190 to Joker at the end of the film? Yeah, there were a lot of, I guess, plot holes, you could 269 00:24:42,210 --> 00:24:46,011 call them, although they didn't like hamper the story. I guess they're more unanswered 270 00:24:46,051 --> 00:24:50,932 questions that were left unresolved. So a lack of closure. I also wondered things like why 271 00:24:50,973 --> 00:24:56,834 did Andrea even court Councilman Reeves and why didn't she kill him? Basically, considering 272 00:24:56,854 --> 00:25:02,296 that he gave up her father. I think it was her plan to kill him if the Joker hadn't already 273 00:25:02,336 --> 00:25:06,497 gotten to him. That's just speculation, though. That's a good question. Maybe she knew the 274 00:25:06,537 --> 00:25:11,827 Joker would go after him. Who knows? Right. Now. If the film doesn't succeed in my opinion 275 00:25:11,887 --> 00:25:18,432 in regards to story or animation, one of several things it does succeed in is the theme, particularly 276 00:25:18,873 --> 00:25:24,357 vengeance and duty. For both Batman and the Phantasm, the film presents these parallel 277 00:25:24,517 --> 00:25:29,681 arcs, these internal struggles for both of the titular characters that highlight the conflict 278 00:25:29,721 --> 00:25:36,350 between personal fulfillment and societal obligation in their individuel pursuits of justice. most 279 00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:42,793 interesting thing about this film to me are the questions it posits about Batman's nature. 280 00:25:42,813 --> 00:25:47,295 Now the filmmakers initially denied it, but much of the story from this film was borrowed 281 00:25:47,435 --> 00:25:53,317 from the comic book storyline Batman Year 2, in which Batman fought a skull mask wearing, 282 00:25:53,698 --> 00:25:58,940 scythes for hands vigilante that turned out to be the father of a woman Bruce Wayne proposed 283 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:04,447 to. Spoilers, if you haven't read that, sorry. But it was so obvious that that's where they 284 00:26:04,487 --> 00:26:09,450 got a lot of the story from that the writer of Batman year two Mark Barr Approached to 285 00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:14,894 DC Comics president Paul Levitz about it and Levitz actually agreed to give Barr a portion 286 00:26:14,914 --> 00:26:19,697 of the film's earnings as well As financial credit for the creation of the Phantasm character, 287 00:26:19,717 --> 00:26:24,260 which is pretty cool Now the Phantasm never appeared in the mainstream comics until recently 288 00:26:24,401 --> 00:26:29,924 introduced in a run by Tom King Who has also largely run with the same themes presented 289 00:26:30,125 --> 00:26:36,011 in Mask of the Phantasm such as whether or not Batman can ever find love, get married, be 290 00:26:36,051 --> 00:26:41,832 happy, and still be Batman. But let's touch more on Batman and the themes in the character 291 00:26:41,873 --> 00:26:48,054 breakdown. Now Batman slash Bruce Wayne was voiced by Kevin Conroy, who, as we've stated 292 00:26:48,134 --> 00:26:53,616 numerous times on this podcast, is perfect as Batman. And this film showcases one of the 293 00:26:53,676 --> 00:26:59,722 best examples of the heart and emotion he was capable of bringing to the role. Yeah, I don't 294 00:26:59,762 --> 00:27:03,786 think we've ever seen Batman as emotional as he was in this story. You know, usually he's 295 00:27:03,866 --> 00:27:08,390 kind of a stoic badass, but in this, you know, we actually see him cry, you know, and he's 296 00:27:08,410 --> 00:27:12,833 like weeping and like pleading with his dead parents and everything like that. So, this 297 00:27:12,874 --> 00:27:17,878 movie is just a testament to Kevin Conroy. This was actually early in his Batman career and 298 00:27:17,918 --> 00:27:22,041 he went on to, you know, really define the character I think for a lot of people. Rest in peace. 299 00:27:22,570 --> 00:27:27,814 Yes, RIP Kevin Conroy. Now in the film, Bruce grapples with his identity as Batman and his 300 00:27:27,855 --> 00:27:34,701 desire for a normal life with his former fiancee, Andrea Beaumont. When Bruce's past with Andrea 301 00:27:34,761 --> 00:27:41,267 resurfaces, he's forced to confront these unresolved emotions regarding his own personal desires 302 00:27:41,307 --> 00:27:47,493 and how they conflict with his sense of duty as Gotham's protector. Ultimately, Bruce accepts, 303 00:27:47,653 --> 00:27:54,214 albeit- reluctantly perhaps that the sacrifices inherent to his role as Batman, this duty to 304 00:27:54,234 --> 00:28:01,439 Gotham City and vengeful crusade, transcends his own happiness. And the arc of him realizing 305 00:28:01,499 --> 00:28:06,743 that was a pretty profound one I would say in this movie, and again a very emotional one. 306 00:28:07,084 --> 00:28:12,679 The line of him at his parents grave where he's saying I never expected to be happy or something 307 00:28:12,719 --> 00:28:18,163 along those lines was unbelievable. And still watching the film to this day kind of gets 308 00:28:18,203 --> 00:28:24,847 me the fact that this guy would sacrifice his life essentially to protecting others is like 309 00:28:24,887 --> 00:28:30,151 the definition of heroism. It was really tragic that moment when he was basically, you know, 310 00:28:30,291 --> 00:28:36,454 begging his parents to break his promise to them. and step away from the role of Batman 311 00:28:36,734 --> 00:28:41,916 and be happy with a wife and family and everything like that. It was particularly tragic because 312 00:28:42,436 --> 00:28:48,058 you can assume, especially as a parent, that Batman is not what the Waynes would want for 313 00:28:48,098 --> 00:28:52,819 their son Bruce. You know, they would actually want him to be happy and to move on from the 314 00:28:52,859 --> 00:28:58,060 tragedy of their deaths and not be so affected by it. And so, when he's essentially pleading 315 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,082 with them to like let him do that, you have to imagine the Waynes. being like, of course, 316 00:29:03,182 --> 00:29:08,923 but he won't let himself break his own promise that he made. Right, because he's so unbelievably 317 00:29:09,003 --> 00:29:15,345 dedicated to that vow and to his cause. It's a very, very interesting character study. And 318 00:29:15,405 --> 00:29:20,086 I think that, you know, goes to show why the character is so popular. That sort of exploration 319 00:29:20,267 --> 00:29:25,448 isn't something that has been explored much for the character that I think warrants further 320 00:29:25,508 --> 00:29:30,269 exploration, for sure. I think they attempted it in the Nolan films, especially The Dark 321 00:29:30,289 --> 00:29:35,822 Knight Rises. but not to the same level of success I would argue as Batman Mask of the Phantasm. 322 00:29:36,162 --> 00:29:43,029 This idea that Batman has an ending is not terribly attractive. I want Batman to continue his crusade 323 00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:48,695 forever because I think that's heroic and I think giving that up is not heroic. And maybe 324 00:29:48,735 --> 00:29:54,361 that's selfish of me, but it's just this ideal that Batman represents that is attractive in 325 00:29:54,381 --> 00:29:59,020 a way. Well, you've always said that you like your DC characters because they're aspirational 326 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:04,604 and more symbols than they are characters. And I think Batman giving up his crusade to actually 327 00:30:04,724 --> 00:30:10,088 be happy would make him more relatable and therefore more of a Marvel character. So I think maybe 328 00:30:10,128 --> 00:30:14,471 that's your own bias. Maybe. I mean, do you want to see Batman give up his crusade? I don't 329 00:30:14,491 --> 00:30:24,194 give a fuck about Batman. Geez! Whatever. Moving on to Andrea Beaumont, aka the Phantasm. She 330 00:30:24,214 --> 00:30:30,959 was voiced by Dana Delaney. Now this was several years prior to her voicing Lois Lane in Superman 331 00:30:30,979 --> 00:30:36,543 the Animated Series. So I'm sure there was not a problem with her voice when this hit theaters, 332 00:30:36,583 --> 00:30:42,087 but holy crap, all I could hear was Lois Lane watching this now. And she did a great job 333 00:30:42,127 --> 00:30:47,731 in the role, don't get me wrong, but her voice is extremely recognizable and it did present 334 00:30:47,771 --> 00:30:52,550 a challenge for me in watching this film once again. Character wise, they were both, you 335 00:30:52,570 --> 00:30:57,651 know, these spunky romantic interests. And yeah, I just, I just kind of shake it. It's like, 336 00:30:57,671 --> 00:31:02,433 oh, it's, it's Lois Lane. My brain was just thinking that the whole time. That too time 337 00:31:02,453 --> 00:31:09,355 in... Now we know where she went off to in the boat. She went to go get a die job and moved 338 00:31:09,395 --> 00:31:15,056 to Metropolis. Change her name. Boom. Now, though we don't know it for most of the film, Andrea's 339 00:31:15,176 --> 00:31:20,526 arc revolves around themes of loss and vengeance, much like Batman's. She's driven by this desire 340 00:31:20,566 --> 00:31:25,750 for retribution against the mobsters responsible for her father's death and adopts the persona 341 00:31:25,850 --> 00:31:33,534 of the Phantasm to exact justice. But in contrast to Batman, Andrea lacks his morality and is 342 00:31:33,554 --> 00:31:38,918 willing to kill and lie to loved ones including Bruce himself, manipulating him to prevent 343 00:31:38,958 --> 00:31:44,341 him from stopping her mission. The thing is, despite this, Andrea is still a sympathetic 344 00:31:44,381 --> 00:31:50,034 character. because it clearly shows in the movie how the mob took literally everything from 345 00:31:50,094 --> 00:31:56,219 her, including the life of her father. Alfred describes vengeance in the movie as a soul-destroying 346 00:31:56,259 --> 00:32:02,505 abyss that Bruce skirts the edge of every day and that Andrea fell into long ago. I think 347 00:32:02,545 --> 00:32:06,868 she recognized this as well, which is why she chose not to be with Bruce at the end of the 348 00:32:06,908 --> 00:32:11,532 film. She's a study on what would happen, I think, if Batman started killing people like 349 00:32:11,552 --> 00:32:17,215 the Joker. Right. he would kind of lose himself and become a serial killer, really. How could 350 00:32:17,255 --> 00:32:22,616 he not? Like, he's so effective at what he does, it would be so easy for him to do that. And 351 00:32:22,716 --> 00:32:28,438 once he did it once, you'd figure he'd be like, oh, it's very easy to do this. It's just, yeah, 352 00:32:28,458 --> 00:32:33,159 a bad path to go down. That being said, I still think he should do it. But we've had this discussion 353 00:32:33,179 --> 00:32:37,160 a million times before. If you want to hear more about this discussion, listen to our review 354 00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:42,430 of Batman Under the Red Hood because they really get into it deep in that story. Yes, absolutely. 355 00:32:42,570 --> 00:32:47,451 Also, you're fucking evil, bro. I think it's evil to not kill him. Well, you're wrong. Anyway, 356 00:32:48,692 --> 00:32:53,613 now one of my biggest problems with this film is something I noticed even as a child watching 357 00:32:53,633 --> 00:32:59,635 this for the first time. And that's how the hell did Andrea get her powers. Like intangibility 358 00:32:59,675 --> 00:33:04,877 and teleportation are pretty impressive feats. You'd think Batman's first question upon learning 359 00:33:04,897 --> 00:33:10,863 she was the Phantasm would have been, dude. Teach me. I mean, we all know that Batman seemingly 360 00:33:10,923 --> 00:33:15,165 teleports when like people have their backs turned. We know he just kind of like scampers 361 00:33:15,265 --> 00:33:19,526 off and hides. So people think that he just vanishes out of thin air, but we literally 362 00:33:19,627 --> 00:33:25,329 see the phantasm character disappear completely in a puff of smoke. There's no other way around 363 00:33:25,409 --> 00:33:30,271 it except teleportation. So she's doing something we're here. Maybe she got into like the occult 364 00:33:30,311 --> 00:33:34,533 or something. That's the idea that I have in the back of my head. Oh, interesting. I always 365 00:33:34,693 --> 00:33:41,096 assumed it was technology. Why did I never assume it was magic? That's a good answer. And it's 366 00:33:41,136 --> 00:33:46,239 my new headcanon, so thanks for that. There you go. But another thing that really bothers 367 00:33:46,259 --> 00:33:53,323 me about this film is the twist is so obvious. And this has bothered me about other Batman 368 00:33:53,363 --> 00:34:00,987 stories such as like Hush, where the newly introduced friend of Bruce Wayne is also the newly introduced 369 00:34:01,127 --> 00:34:07,831 villain. Even as a kid, I was like, I bet you that's Andrea. And I was fucking right. I was 370 00:34:07,891 --> 00:34:13,815 a smart kid. Moving on to the Joker, voiced by Mark Hamill. Again, we've said so many great 371 00:34:13,835 --> 00:34:19,119 things about Mark Hamill's performance as the Joker. Like Kevin Conroy for Batman, he is 372 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:25,043 the quintessential Joker voice. Yeah, I think we spoke a lot about him in the Killing Joke 373 00:34:25,343 --> 00:34:30,558 animated movie review that we did. This performance is also... pretty early in Mark Hamill's career 374 00:34:30,618 --> 00:34:36,201 as the Joker. And it's just amazing to see how consistent these guys were throughout the decades. 375 00:34:36,801 --> 00:34:42,724 Oh yeah, for sure. So the first time we see the Joker, we don't know it. He's an anonymous 376 00:34:42,844 --> 00:34:48,346 mob lackey of Salvatore Valestra. There's been a number of ways that writers have tried to 377 00:34:48,426 --> 00:34:53,148 tie the Joker into Batman's origin throughout the years, you know, for making him the one 378 00:34:53,168 --> 00:34:59,912 who murdered the Waynes in the 1989 Batman film. or causing a citywide riot that resulted in 379 00:34:59,932 --> 00:35:05,616 the Wayne's death in the Joker movie. In this film, he wasn't involved in the deaths of the 380 00:35:05,656 --> 00:35:11,240 Waynes that we know of, but he represented a threat to the object of Bruce's desire and 381 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:17,064 happiness, namely, Andrea, which if Bruce had been allowed to keep, he would not have become 382 00:35:17,124 --> 00:35:22,949 Batman. And honestly, that's as direct an influence to Batman's origin as I'd personally care for 383 00:35:22,989 --> 00:35:27,515 the Joker to have. Yeah, I remember that the Joker was in this movie from watching it as 384 00:35:27,555 --> 00:35:33,638 a kid, but I couldn't remember in the course of the film how and why and when he shows up. 385 00:35:33,718 --> 00:35:37,900 Now he doesn't actually show up until like a little bit past halfway through the runtime, 386 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,122 if I'm not mistaken. And I thought his presence was actually sorely missed because once he 387 00:35:42,162 --> 00:35:46,604 shows up, I think the film starts firing on all cylinders, but before that the pacing was 388 00:35:46,624 --> 00:35:50,862 a little bit slow. I was really glad to have Joker in this movie. Yeah, originally he wasn't 389 00:35:50,902 --> 00:35:55,845 going to be in the movie, but they found a way to organically bring him in. And I gotta say, 390 00:35:56,045 --> 00:36:00,608 I love it. Now, as we've mentioned before, people have always wondered why Batman doesn't kill 391 00:36:00,648 --> 00:36:05,991 the Joker, and interestingly enough, in this film, Joker actually seems somewhat threatened 392 00:36:06,031 --> 00:36:11,014 by the Phantasm when he confronts Councilman Reeves because he knows he was one of the mobsters 393 00:36:11,034 --> 00:36:15,736 that the Phantasm might be after. I feel like this is the first time I've seen the Joker 394 00:36:15,876 --> 00:36:20,792 threatened by a ghost from his past. And I just thought that was fascinating. Yeah, the Joker 395 00:36:20,832 --> 00:36:24,795 never really fears any of the consequences to his actions because he knows that Batman will 396 00:36:24,815 --> 00:36:30,180 never kill him. So he kind of feels like he has the freedom to do what he wants. And in 397 00:36:30,220 --> 00:36:35,044 a way, he's kind of right. So when he is faced with death, he of course, you know, goes above 398 00:36:35,084 --> 00:36:40,149 and beyond to eliminate that threat. Whereas with Batman, he never truly wants to kill Batman, 399 00:36:40,429 --> 00:36:45,533 he would rather corrupt him. It is kind of cool that he tries to do that using his secret lair. 400 00:36:45,866 --> 00:36:50,747 made out of the ruins of the Gotham World Fair. I thought that was a nice little setting that 401 00:36:50,787 --> 00:36:56,549 they incorporated into this film. Yeah, absolutely. It was a great place for a final climactic 402 00:36:56,589 --> 00:37:01,651 battle, the way Joker was able to utilize all the different toys and stuff around him. I 403 00:37:01,711 --> 00:37:07,653 loved that like, knife chopping robot. I loved like, the miniature Gotham City. It was all 404 00:37:07,673 --> 00:37:08,373 pretty great stuff. 405 00:37:15,150 --> 00:37:21,416 World where fantasies collide and heroes clash. One podcast network rises above the rest. Prepare 406 00:37:21,436 --> 00:37:27,162 yourself for the ultimate showdowns in comic books, video games, movies, and anime. The 407 00:37:27,222 --> 00:37:32,908 Dynomic Podcast Network presents Console Combat, where video game legends brawl every Monday. 408 00:37:35,054 --> 00:37:41,657 Comic Book Titans smash every Tuesday, Max Destruction, where TV and action heroes battle every Wednesday, 409 00:37:42,217 --> 00:37:48,140 and Sendro World, where anime champions clash every Thursday. Join us as we speculate on 410 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:53,863 the matches and, armed with the power of mathematical simulations, discover who will emerge victorious. 411 00:37:54,383 --> 00:37:58,645 Visit dynamicpodcast.com where we settle the debate and settle the score. 412 00:38:03,086 --> 00:38:07,909 Moving on to the story highlights, the film opens with the opening credits, just want to 413 00:38:07,949 --> 00:38:14,612 touch on those briefly. It's a CG rendition of the animated Gotham Cityscape, and it's 414 00:38:15,012 --> 00:38:21,455 actually pretty awesome. Of course, it's made even better by Shirley Walker's iconic animated 415 00:38:21,495 --> 00:38:27,510 series score, which sets the perfect tone for a Batman movie. It almost makes you wish that 416 00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:32,272 they had taken bigger swings with the animation, right? Because we have this really cool animated 417 00:38:32,352 --> 00:38:37,474 setup into the film, and then all of a sudden it goes back to standard Saturday morning cartoon 418 00:38:37,514 --> 00:38:41,536 fare. But at least if they had kept the environment CG or something like that, I think it would 419 00:38:41,556 --> 00:38:47,659 have felt like a more true theatrical experience. Yeah, I mean, CG was pretty new to that time. 420 00:38:48,259 --> 00:38:52,280 So I think that probably would have been more of a challenge for them. I could be wrong. 421 00:38:52,761 --> 00:38:57,039 But yeah, I think that also would have been cool. I wonder why they didn't take that 3D 422 00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:01,281 model that they had created of Gotham City and then incorporate it into the television series 423 00:39:01,361 --> 00:39:06,664 kind of the same way they did with the Spider-Man animated television show in the 90s where they 424 00:39:06,684 --> 00:39:10,806 had a 3D model of New York that they would keep revisiting as he was like swinging through 425 00:39:10,826 --> 00:39:14,768 the streets or to use as a transition between scenes and stuff like that. I think it makes 426 00:39:14,788 --> 00:39:19,231 sense for the character of Spider-Man. You really didn't have those transitional scenes with 427 00:39:19,451 --> 00:39:23,873 Batman in his series. I'm not sure it would have been necessary. Although, you know, honestly... 428 00:39:24,254 --> 00:39:27,856 If they thought of that, they probably could have found a way to make it work. I'm sure 429 00:39:27,876 --> 00:39:31,378 for audience members in the theater at the time, it was like breathtaking because you have to 430 00:39:31,398 --> 00:39:38,482 remember this was pre mainstream CG animated films, like pre Toy Story. Right. So, yeah, 431 00:39:38,722 --> 00:39:42,704 I bet it was really cool. Now, moving on to the plot. Well, Batman confronts a gang of 432 00:39:42,784 --> 00:39:48,827 mobsters led by Chucky Saul for counterfeiting. Chucky flees only to be encountered and killed 433 00:39:48,887 --> 00:39:55,571 by a new enigmatic vigilante known as the Phantasm. whose silhouette resembles Batman's, resulting 434 00:39:55,611 --> 00:40:01,394 in witnesses blaming Batman for Chucky's murder. Amidst a public censure from city councilman 435 00:40:01,474 --> 00:40:06,576 Arthur Reeves, Batman analyzes a shard of glass with a chemical residue from the Phantasm's 436 00:40:06,636 --> 00:40:13,079 signature smokey aura, while Andrea Boumont, Bruce's former fiancé, returns to Gotham after 437 00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:19,223 years of being away. And this is sort of like the first plot hole. The fact that Andrea was 438 00:40:19,343 --> 00:40:25,248 already in Gotham as the Phantasm, and yet we see a scene of her arriving via plane. It's 439 00:40:25,648 --> 00:40:31,433 supposed to be this misdirect that actually just results in confusion later on. Well, Batman 440 00:40:31,453 --> 00:40:37,818 addresses it. He's like, you came into Gotham early. Seemingly, she came in by boat and then 441 00:40:37,838 --> 00:40:43,183 she probably left by boat and then came in by plane. But like, why would that matter to someone 442 00:40:43,223 --> 00:40:48,527 who wasn't specifically following her movements? You know? a little bit strange. Do you think 443 00:40:48,567 --> 00:40:55,611 that Andrea specifically designed her phantasm outfit to resemble Batman and therefore be 444 00:40:55,671 --> 00:41:02,035 confused for him by eyewitnesses? Well that's a good question. I don't know it's possible 445 00:41:02,175 --> 00:41:08,719 although I don't really think she had a vendetta against Batman per se so I think she was honestly 446 00:41:08,759 --> 00:41:12,766 just trying to scare people in the same way that Batman was trying to scare people. She 447 00:41:12,806 --> 00:41:16,888 wouldn't have been familiar with Batman because she had been away from Gotham for so long. 448 00:41:17,349 --> 00:41:22,773 It just kind of turned into this kind of shitty coincidence for Batman. Now regarding the suit, 449 00:41:23,673 --> 00:41:28,417 I didn't really touch on her appearance. I thought the design of the Phantasm was actually pretty 450 00:41:28,457 --> 00:41:34,041 bomb. Again, it's inspired somewhat by the Grim Reaper character from Batman Year 2, but I 451 00:41:34,081 --> 00:41:40,125 think that further went on to inspire Asriel's look from the comics. I thought Asriel predates 452 00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:45,903 the Phantasm. He does, but I don't think that costume does, because for the longest time, 453 00:41:46,163 --> 00:41:53,085 Asriel wore like a cybernetic Batman suit. Asriel being the guy who took over for Batman after 454 00:41:53,145 --> 00:41:58,386 his back was broken by Bane. Yes, if you want to learn more about him, check out our Asriel 455 00:41:58,426 --> 00:42:04,848 vs. Blade episode. During a party at Wayne Manor, Bruce is accosted by an old romantic fling 456 00:42:04,908 --> 00:42:10,394 and reminded of Andrea by Councilman Reeve, who unbeknownst to Bruce... has been talking 457 00:42:10,414 --> 00:42:15,897 with Andrea. Bruce reminisces in a flashback to the time he first met Andrea in a cemetery 458 00:42:16,117 --> 00:42:21,260 while visiting his parents' grave. That same evening, Bruce begins his masked vigilante 459 00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:26,683 career, stopping a group of bandits, though facing significant resistance and getting injured 460 00:42:26,723 --> 00:42:32,326 in the process. Recognizing he needs to strike fear in criminals to have an advantage over 461 00:42:32,366 --> 00:42:37,849 them, Bruce nonetheless becomes distracted by Andrea when she visits him during his training. 462 00:42:38,206 --> 00:42:44,951 and the two share their first kiss. Now an interesting note for the flashbacks in this film, they 463 00:42:44,971 --> 00:42:50,896 were inspired by Citizen Kane. I could see that for sure. Yeah, yeah, me too. Right when I 464 00:42:51,016 --> 00:42:55,120 read that I was like, oh yeah. If you're not familiar with Citizen Kane, it's an old film 465 00:42:55,160 --> 00:43:00,744 by Orson Welles, black and white, but it's highly regarded by a majority of film critics as the 466 00:43:00,784 --> 00:43:05,067 greatest film that's ever been made. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much I buy into the 467 00:43:05,147 --> 00:43:08,909 idea of it being inspired by Citizen Kane, because then you could say like all flashbacks are 468 00:43:08,929 --> 00:43:15,172 inspired by Citizen Kane, but the kind of 1940s Art Deco feel of Mask of the Phantasm kind 469 00:43:15,233 --> 00:43:19,855 of easily lends itself to those comparisons to Citizen Kane. Yeah, and sort of like the 470 00:43:19,875 --> 00:43:26,039 main character being this sort of tortured billionaire. Yeah. I think if any comics character is going 471 00:43:26,059 --> 00:43:31,261 to have a film based on Citizen Kane, it's definitely Batman. I think that was a really smart decision. 472 00:43:31,554 --> 00:43:36,798 to take inspiration for the filmmakers. Or Tony Stark. Yeah, Tony Stark could go fuck himself. 473 00:43:37,158 --> 00:43:43,603 WHAT? I SAID IT! Anyway, back to the present, mob boss Buzz Bronski visits the grave of Chuckie 474 00:43:43,643 --> 00:43:49,168 Saul at the cemetery, where he's confronted and killed by the Phantasm. Batman is blamed 475 00:43:49,228 --> 00:43:54,652 by the press once again to the dismay of both Mob Boss Salvatore Velestra and Councilman 476 00:43:54,712 --> 00:44:00,377 Reeves, the latter of whom presses Police Commissioner James Gordon to go after Batman, though Gordon 477 00:44:00,417 --> 00:44:06,377 refuses. While Batman investigates the cemetery for clues, he finds more chemical residue before 478 00:44:06,417 --> 00:44:12,781 finding his parents' grave, where he's caught by Andrea, who realizes Batman must be Bruce. 479 00:44:12,921 --> 00:44:17,404 Maybe a little bit of a stretch, but yeah, he shouldn't have been at his frickin' parents' 480 00:44:17,424 --> 00:44:22,447 grave. Rookie move. I gotta say earlier on in the story when we see that Batman year one 481 00:44:22,487 --> 00:44:27,054 moment where Bruce Wayne is kinda trying his hand at being a vigilante the first time. It 482 00:44:27,094 --> 00:44:32,997 was quite comical to see him attempt that outside of the Batman costume, where he's just some 483 00:44:33,037 --> 00:44:38,300 like guy who shows up and he's like, Hey guys, stop it. And like their reaction to him was 484 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:43,843 actually kind of funny. They're like, who's this guy? Right. Absolutely. To all the haters 485 00:44:43,903 --> 00:44:49,366 who are like, Oh, Batman's so dumb. He's a guy wearing a bat costume. Have you considered 486 00:44:49,406 --> 00:44:54,649 the alternative? I think this is a perfect example of that. Just how ridiculous it is. You better 487 00:44:54,709 --> 00:45:01,740 listen to me or else. He's much better as this haunting mythical creature of the night for 488 00:45:01,780 --> 00:45:07,582 sure. Batman spies on Andrea as she dines with Councilman Reeves. In a flashback, we see his 489 00:45:07,622 --> 00:45:13,825 and Andrea's romance bloom as they visit a futurism exhibit at the Gotham World Fair. Andrea later 490 00:45:13,865 --> 00:45:19,387 introduces Bruce to her father, Carl Beaumont, whom Bruce learns handles the finances for 491 00:45:19,447 --> 00:45:25,578 Salvatore Valestra and for whom a younger Arthur Reeves worked for as a lawyer. As Bruce and 492 00:45:25,658 --> 00:45:31,381 Andrea leave her father's office, they encounter a biker gang robbing a civilian on the street. 493 00:45:31,801 --> 00:45:36,864 When Bruce intervenes, he becomes distracted by Andrea and gets injured, allowing the biker 494 00:45:36,884 --> 00:45:42,427 gang to get away with the money. Realizing he can't pursue the life of vigilantism that he 495 00:45:42,487 --> 00:45:47,570 vowed on his parents' grave and simultaneously lead a fulfilling, happy life with Andrea, 496 00:45:47,951 --> 00:45:54,018 the tormented Bruce visits his parents' grave, where Andrea finds and comforts him. Best scene 497 00:45:54,058 --> 00:45:58,682 of the whole movie. Yeah. Do you think that maybe Batman would just be more effective if 498 00:45:58,762 --> 00:46:03,245 he wasn't distracted by his girlfriend while trying to fight crime? Like maybe he could 499 00:46:03,265 --> 00:46:09,430 have it both ways and he's just kind of being dumb? Well, that's a good question. I think 500 00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:13,973 he would always kind of have her at the back of his mind. He'd be afraid to take certain 501 00:46:14,033 --> 00:46:19,477 risks because he could get injured and, you know, that would not be good for his loved 502 00:46:19,577 --> 00:46:24,713 ones. You could argue that, you know, he probably runs into the same issue with his Robins. You 503 00:46:24,733 --> 00:46:30,317 know, what happens to young Dick Grayson if his caretaker, Bruce Wayne, gets killed while 504 00:46:30,337 --> 00:46:36,021 being Batman? But for some reason, Bruce's romantic life seems to affect him more, I guess. Well, 505 00:46:36,081 --> 00:46:40,064 with Robin, he's setting up a legacy, so he knows that if he ever kicks the bucket, he 506 00:46:40,084 --> 00:46:45,128 has someone to take up his mantle. That's true. Why doesn't he just train his wife or girlfriend 507 00:46:45,208 --> 00:46:51,035 to, you know, kick ass too? That's a fair point considering, you know, Andrea actually can 508 00:46:51,195 --> 00:46:56,978 fight and be a masked vigilante as the phantasm. I don't know, maybe if he knew that they could 509 00:46:56,998 --> 00:47:01,080 have fought crime together. Maybe they should have ended up together in the end. When Batman 510 00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:06,202 was spying on Andrea and the councilman, do you think he was crying or do you think it 511 00:47:06,222 --> 00:47:12,065 was just raining on his face? Rain, dude. Rain. Batman doesn't cry like that. It's always in 512 00:47:12,085 --> 00:47:17,348 the rain. You can't prove anything. Back in the present, Salvatore confronts Arthur Reeves 513 00:47:17,408 --> 00:47:23,372 and confirms Reeves' suspicions that Batman is killing mob bosses. Meanwhile, Batman deduces 514 00:47:23,412 --> 00:47:29,337 that Salvatore, Buzz Bronski, and Chuckie Sol were business partners in the past. While investigating 515 00:47:29,397 --> 00:47:36,202 Sal's office, he notices a photo of Sal, Buzz, Chuckie, and Andrea's father, Carl, all together. 516 00:47:36,642 --> 00:47:42,786 In a flashback, Bruce remembers his sunset marriage proposal to Andrea. just as a swarm of bats 517 00:47:42,906 --> 00:47:48,390 emerged from a nearby cave on his property. As Bruce drops Andrea off at her father's home, 518 00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:53,273 they notice he has company. The following day, after Bruce investigates the cave from where 519 00:47:53,293 --> 00:47:58,296 the bats came, Bruce receives a letter from Andrea saying that she can't marry him, that 520 00:47:58,336 --> 00:48:03,159 she's leaving to Europe with her father, and that he should forget about her. In his grief, 521 00:48:03,299 --> 00:48:09,359 Bruce rededicates his vow to his parents and becomes the Batman. Another really iconic scene 522 00:48:09,479 --> 00:48:14,403 in this film is when Batman puts on the cowl for the very first time and you just see the 523 00:48:14,483 --> 00:48:20,468 look of shock and horror on Alfred's face. That was, I thought, really effectively done. I 524 00:48:20,508 --> 00:48:25,551 don't love the way he came to adopt the mantle of the bat because it's not entirely clear 525 00:48:25,672 --> 00:48:31,376 why he chose the bat in this movie, but that reveal of him as Batman without even seeing 526 00:48:31,416 --> 00:48:37,300 him on screen was fantastic. You have to imagine that Alfred seeing Batman become this monstrous 527 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:44,004 figure, a guy who, like he says in this movie, diapered his bottom since he was a baby, is 528 00:48:44,185 --> 00:48:49,088 actually significantly terrifying. Yeah, he's like, that's way scarier than, you know, fighting 529 00:48:49,288 --> 00:48:54,572 crime in your civilian clothes like you were before. Right. Now back in the present, Salvatore 530 00:48:54,612 --> 00:48:59,575 visits the abandoned World Fair, the secret hideout of the Joker, attempting to hire him 531 00:48:59,615 --> 00:49:05,958 to kill Batman, though Sal angers Joker in the process. After Councilman Reeves returns Andrea 532 00:49:05,998 --> 00:49:11,620 home from a date, Andrea and Batman confront each other in her room, with Batman inquiring 533 00:49:11,660 --> 00:49:17,142 about her father Carl and Andrea accusing Batman of being controlled by his parents. When the 534 00:49:17,182 --> 00:49:22,803 Phantom attempts to kill Salvatore in his home, it finds that the Joker beat him to it, poisoning 535 00:49:22,843 --> 00:49:28,385 Salvatore with Joker venom and rigging his body with a camera to find out who's really killing 536 00:49:28,445 --> 00:49:34,333 the mob bosses. The Phantasm manages to escape before the Joker blows up Sel's home, only 537 00:49:34,373 --> 00:49:39,978 to then be chased down by Batman. The Phantasm disappears, however, and Batman is forced to 538 00:49:40,018 --> 00:49:45,182 flee from the police, who believe he's responsible for the Joker's explosion and Sel's death. 539 00:49:45,483 --> 00:49:50,787 Badly injured in the police pursuit, Batman is rescued by Andrea, who takes him back to 540 00:49:50,847 --> 00:49:57,773 Wayne Manor. I wonder if Joker rigged the camera on the body because he knew that the killer 541 00:49:57,793 --> 00:50:02,277 wasn't Batman. because he knew that Batman doesn't kill. I think it's that exactly. Yeah, he was 542 00:50:02,297 --> 00:50:07,081 trying to find out who was really going after the mob bosses and therefore later on, possibly 543 00:50:07,181 --> 00:50:12,927 even him. Now you brought up a point earlier about a plot hole as to why Andrea was dating 544 00:50:13,187 --> 00:50:18,852 the councilman. And I am kind of angry now because I didn't think about that. And I do have to 545 00:50:18,872 --> 00:50:24,497 wonder, like, if she's coming into Gotham, why not contact Bruce, her former fiance right 546 00:50:24,517 --> 00:50:30,884 away? I wonder if she was waiting for her whole crusade to be over with, and then maybe she, 547 00:50:30,944 --> 00:50:36,146 like Batman, considered the possibility that they could continue their lives together? Or 548 00:50:36,287 --> 00:50:40,769 what was going on there? Why did she have to make her presence known as Andrea to begin 549 00:50:40,809 --> 00:50:45,931 with? She should have just snuck in and been the phantasm all the time. She didn't need 550 00:50:45,971 --> 00:50:52,762 her alter ego there out in public. That's very true. Plot hole, dammit. Now Andrea reveals 551 00:50:52,802 --> 00:50:58,066 that on the day of Bruce's marriage proposal, the visitors at her father's house were Sal, 552 00:50:58,126 --> 00:51:03,870 Buzz, and Chucky, demanding money from her father Carl, who had it tied up in investments. After 553 00:51:03,970 --> 00:51:08,873 lying to the mobsters, saying they'll have their money the next day, Carl explains to Andrea 554 00:51:08,893 --> 00:51:13,617 that they had to flee or face death from the mob. Though Carl made a fortune in Europe and 555 00:51:13,657 --> 00:51:18,720 later paid back the mob their money, it wasn't enough for them, and Bruce deduces that the 556 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:24,460 phantasm must be Carl. Bruce and Andrea rekindle their love for one another, and the following 557 00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:30,564 morning, as Bruce contemplates retiring the cowl after settling this whole matter, he recognizes 558 00:51:30,644 --> 00:51:36,668 in the photograph of Carl, Cell, Buzz, and Chucky that another familiar face, one of Cell's mobsters, 559 00:51:37,108 --> 00:51:43,432 is in fact the Joker. Now that was an interesting twist, because I had forgotten that the Joker 560 00:51:43,452 --> 00:51:49,332 was the mobster that worked for Salvatore. The camera always kept going back to the long nose 561 00:51:49,472 --> 00:51:53,935 henchmen in the flashbacks and everything like that. But even then, I didn't put two and two 562 00:51:53,955 --> 00:51:58,258 together until this scene where he's looking at the photo. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, that 563 00:51:58,298 --> 00:52:04,022 is the Joker. Right. Yeah. And of course, the Joker has a alternate history as a mobster, 564 00:52:04,202 --> 00:52:08,445 not only from the comics, but also, of course, Tim Burton's 1989 Batman film. So I thought 565 00:52:08,465 --> 00:52:13,169 it worked really well as a quasi history of sorts for the Joker in the Batman animated 566 00:52:13,209 --> 00:52:18,809 series universe. After Joker confronts Councilman Reeves, suspecting he may be the Phantasm, 567 00:52:19,230 --> 00:52:24,514 Reeves ends up in the hospital, unable to stop laughing. Batman visits him and learns that 568 00:52:24,574 --> 00:52:29,818 Reeves and Carl kept in touch while he was away in Europe. When Carl refused to help Reeves 569 00:52:29,858 --> 00:52:34,903 find his election campaign, Reeves turned to the mob and gave them Carl's location in exchange 570 00:52:34,923 --> 00:52:40,788 for money. When Batman arrives at Andrea's to tell her the news, he answers her phone only 571 00:52:40,828 --> 00:52:46,448 to hear the Joker threaten to kill her. As Batman manages to prevent a bomb strapped to a plane 572 00:52:46,468 --> 00:52:52,433 from the World's Fair from blowing up Andrea's home, we see Andrea at the World's Fair where 573 00:52:52,453 --> 00:52:57,978 she remembers in a flashback when she witnessed the pre-Joker mobster leave her father's house 574 00:52:58,018 --> 00:53:03,703 just before she found him dead. Now, the scene of Batman interrogating Councilman Reeves in 575 00:53:03,723 --> 00:53:09,167 the hospital as he's, you know, dosed up on Joker venom and can't stop laughing was one 576 00:53:09,207 --> 00:53:12,354 of my favorite scenes in the movie. And I think one of my favorite scenes in the movie. favorite 577 00:53:12,414 --> 00:53:17,622 Batman interrogation scenes I've ever seen. A lot of props has to go to the animation department 578 00:53:17,722 --> 00:53:24,731 for, I think, realistically depicting this condition that the councilman is in. It was very believable. 579 00:53:24,992 --> 00:53:30,474 The voice acting was fantastic. Just really interesting. Felt bad for the guy. Yeah. I'm 580 00:53:30,514 --> 00:53:34,155 still surprised that he made it out alive through the course of this movie. I guess you could 581 00:53:34,215 --> 00:53:40,396 rationalize Andrea dating Kim because maybe she was trying to figure out on her own whether 582 00:53:40,436 --> 00:53:45,178 or not the councilman was involved in her father's death. That's my head, Kenan now. Oh, yeah. 583 00:53:45,398 --> 00:53:49,799 Yeah. She was investigating him. And that's also maybe why she actually came back as Andrea 584 00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:56,741 and didn't just sneak in to Gotham as the phantasm. Plot hole filled? I'm going to say yes. We 585 00:53:56,801 --> 00:54:02,640 figured it out. There you go. Now when the Phantasm confronts Joker at the abandoned World's Fair, 586 00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,584 Joker reveals that he knows it's Andrea, who reveals it is in fact her beneath the mask 587 00:54:08,604 --> 00:54:14,108 before the two fight. Using the fair's technology to his advantage, Joker nearly succeeds in 588 00:54:14,168 --> 00:54:20,392 killing Andrea before Batman arrives and rescues her. Though Batman and Andrea argue over her 589 00:54:20,492 --> 00:54:26,176 actions, Andrea agrees to leave and Batman pursues the Joker, who reveals that he's triggered 590 00:54:26,216 --> 00:54:30,887 explosives throughout the fairgrounds, that will soon detonate. When the Joker is defeated, 591 00:54:31,327 --> 00:54:38,312 Andrea reappears and grabs him and the two disappear just before the entire fair blows up. One thing 592 00:54:38,332 --> 00:54:45,896 that kind of bothered me here is once Batman rescues Andrea, she starts using his name Bruce 593 00:54:45,956 --> 00:54:50,659 willy nilly and they're talking like they know each other. It would be so easy for Joker to 594 00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:57,350 figure out this is Bruce Wayne. What? Like kind of reckless. After Batman escapes the explosions, 595 00:54:57,530 --> 00:55:02,892 Alfred consoles Bruce, saying there was no way to save Andrea, as she had already fallen too 596 00:55:02,932 --> 00:55:08,553 far into the abyss of vengeance. Bruce finds Andrea's locket in the Batcave, and it's revealed 597 00:55:08,593 --> 00:55:14,655 that Andrea survived the explosions and is hiding away on a boat. Batman, meanwhile, remains 598 00:55:14,695 --> 00:55:19,756 committed to his vow of vengeance against the criminal element of Gotham City. And that's 599 00:55:19,796 --> 00:55:25,251 the end of the movie. Makes me wonder, did Batman assume that Andrea- died in the explosion and 600 00:55:25,311 --> 00:55:31,156 if so why did he assume that when he saw her teleport? I don't think he assumed that she 601 00:55:31,216 --> 00:55:34,959 died especially considering the fact that he found the locket in the cave. I think that 602 00:55:34,979 --> 00:55:40,163 was a clear indicator that she was still alive and that she had kind of given up on their 603 00:55:40,203 --> 00:55:44,847 relationship because she didn't need the locket anymore. I think really this whole thing kind 604 00:55:44,887 --> 00:55:51,993 of just embittered him in a way which in turn kind of renewed his commitment to his cause. 605 00:55:52,538 --> 00:55:58,222 Like if she died, he would be sad. But I think he was more angry or at least it came across 606 00:55:58,262 --> 00:56:02,685 that way to me in the final shot of the film. I wonder what she did with the Joker considering, 607 00:56:02,725 --> 00:56:06,868 you know, she got away. It seems like she had a change of heart and decided to just not kill 608 00:56:06,908 --> 00:56:17,076 him and then, you know, go into hiding as Lois Lane. Headcanon. No, who knows? Like they should 609 00:56:17,116 --> 00:56:24,176 have addressed that fact. because it's just a weird anticlimactic element of this film 610 00:56:24,636 --> 00:56:29,379 that just kind of sucks. I don't know what else to say about it. She was on this mission of 611 00:56:29,419 --> 00:56:34,942 vengeance. There's no real sign that she was willing to change or would change. So why wouldn't 612 00:56:35,002 --> 00:56:39,645 she have killed the Joker? Maybe he got away. Maybe the Joker was too good and he escaped. 613 00:56:39,985 --> 00:56:44,447 Well, then you would think that Andrea would never stop in her pursuit to kill the Joker 614 00:56:44,487 --> 00:56:50,170 and would end up in Gotham City once again. I don't know, man. Exactly. That's the problem. 615 00:56:50,631 --> 00:56:57,435 One of several in this movie, which I feel almost bad not liking more. I feel like I should like 616 00:56:57,455 --> 00:57:02,419 it more because critics really liked it. But again, I think critics just weren't watching 617 00:57:02,659 --> 00:57:07,522 a reading a lot of stuff that you and I are watching and reading now or have in the past 618 00:57:07,682 --> 00:57:13,254 to justify such a high rating for this film, like On Rotten Tomatoes. I think at the time 619 00:57:13,274 --> 00:57:17,818 a lot of critics were comparing Batman Mask of the Phantasm to the live action movies that 620 00:57:17,838 --> 00:57:22,122 we were getting at the time. I think when this came out it was following Batman Returns and 621 00:57:22,162 --> 00:57:26,506 I would agree that this movie is better than Batman Returns. I don't know if it's better 622 00:57:26,546 --> 00:57:32,591 than the 1989 Batman movie but better than Burton's follow-up and certainly better than the Schumacher 623 00:57:32,631 --> 00:57:37,335 films that came out later. Maybe that's the case? Maybe they liked it because it was really 624 00:57:37,375 --> 00:57:43,311 the first foray that the general... non-comic book reading public got into Batman's psyche. 625 00:57:43,751 --> 00:57:49,033 That's gotta be it. Yeah, that's the best thing going for this film hands down and one that 626 00:57:49,113 --> 00:57:55,116 really has yet to be done as well arguably in any subsequent film, except for maybe The Batman. 627 00:57:55,356 --> 00:58:01,719 So you're probably right. Now overall, despite its strong themes of vengeance and duty, the 628 00:58:01,879 --> 00:58:08,101 obvious mystery reveal and plot holes prevent the film from comparing to Batman's best stories. 629 00:58:08,542 --> 00:58:14,826 like Batman Begins, like The Dark Knight, like even Batman Year One. Those were all much better 630 00:58:15,227 --> 00:58:21,031 origins for the character and it's really difficult not to make those comparisons. I know critics 631 00:58:21,071 --> 00:58:26,436 weren't able to do that when this film came out in theaters, but I'm reviewing it now and 632 00:58:26,496 --> 00:58:32,260 that's really the only way I can review it. I'm giving it three and a half stars, a fresh 633 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:38,624 rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I would agree with that rating. It's still a good movie, but when 634 00:58:38,644 --> 00:58:44,008 you compare it to some of the more recent Batman animated films that we've gotten, such as, 635 00:58:44,168 --> 00:58:50,212 you know, Batman Year 1, or especially Batman The Long Halloween, that was fantastic. Yes. 636 00:58:51,033 --> 00:58:56,777 Again, I just don't think that this movie, while good for its time, holds up in comparison to 637 00:58:56,797 --> 00:59:01,022 the newer stuff. Absolutely, and it kind of makes you wonder, like, what if Warner Brothers 638 00:59:01,162 --> 00:59:06,624 released animated films like Batman Year One or Batman the Long Halloween in theaters? Like, 639 00:59:06,664 --> 00:59:10,545 how would critics respond and how would the box office respond? I think they should do 640 00:59:10,585 --> 00:59:15,566 it. I mean, look at how well the Spider-Verse movies do. I think Batman the Long Halloween 641 00:59:15,707 --> 00:59:19,548 has a chance of holding up just as well with general audiences considering how well that 642 00:59:19,588 --> 00:59:24,769 was made. I agree. I agree. Although, I mean, you know, the Spider-Verse movies are on a 643 00:59:24,809 --> 00:59:28,907 whole other level animation-wise. You would have to get up to that level of animation, 644 00:59:29,087 --> 00:59:33,709 I think, for the general audiences to really make a push to go see it. Because Mask of the 645 00:59:33,729 --> 00:59:39,252 Phantasm was not a box office success in theaters. It later became a success on home video. And 646 00:59:39,292 --> 00:59:44,776 now that, you know, Spider-Verse has set the bar for animated films in theaters, things 647 00:59:44,796 --> 00:59:50,539 like Mask of the Phantasm are kind of embarrassing by comparison. That's right. Marvel likes to 648 00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:54,941 embarrass DC. That's one of my favorite things about Marvel. Did I say embarrassing? I meant... 649 00:59:55,934 --> 01:00:01,589 I don't know, embarrassing. Damn it. But that does it for this review. AG9K, help close this 650 01:00:01,689 --> 01:00:09,225 out. Thanks for listening to Dynamic duel. Visit the show's website at dynamicduel.com and follow 651 01:00:09,285 --> 01:00:14,588 us on Instagram at dynamicduelpodcast. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com 652 01:00:15,008 --> 01:00:19,690 slash dynamicduel and joining a tier that works for you, or by rating and reviewing Dynamic 653 01:00:19,730 --> 01:00:25,394 duel on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the 654 01:00:25,434 --> 01:00:30,657 other shows in the Dynamite Podcast Network, including Max Destruction, Senjow World and 655 01:00:30,697 --> 01:00:38,381 Console Combat. In our next episode, we will be doing a duel between the Earth elemental 656 01:00:38,421 --> 01:00:44,670 characters of GeoForce and Quake. I wouldn't describe Quake as an Earth elemental character. 657 01:00:45,191 --> 01:00:49,170 She more just has vibration powers. But that does it for this episode, we want to give a 658 01:00:49,290 --> 01:00:54,493 big thanks to our executive producers Ken Johnson, John Swarovski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Abalkom, 659 01:00:54,633 --> 01:00:59,515 Miggy Mathengian, Brandon Esfregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wazilowski, AJ 660 01:00:59,535 --> 01:01:05,378 Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Shunk, Dean Molesky, Devin Davis, 661 01:01:05,678 --> 01:01:10,621 and Joseph Kirsting for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. 662 01:01:11,181 --> 01:01:16,023 Up, up and away, true believers. Your angel of death awaits, and it brought snacks.