This is a DynaMic Network podcast.
Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, the weekly show where we review superhero films and debate
the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations.
I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe. And for this episode, we will be reviewing
the latest direct-to-video DC animated film, Watchmen Chapter 1. Who watches The Watchmen?
This guy. And this guy, and he also regrets it. But we'll talk about that later. Before
that, we're going to break down the comic book movie news from the past week, of which there
was just one major news item, and that was the official trailer number two for Craven the
Hunter. A movie I also will regret watching, I'm pretty sure. Same here. As always guys,
we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if
you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Guys our artificially intelligent duel simulator
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Be sure to tune into the other shows on the DynaMic Podcast Network this week, including
Max Destruction, which pits your favorite action heroes from film and television against each
other. This week, hosts Scotty and Gilly are reviewing Double Dragon. And on the Send Your
World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga
characters. This Thursday, Zach's finding out who would win between Tatsumi Oga and Baby
Beel from and Kiyotaka Mine. On the Console Combat Podcast, hosts John and Dean find out
who would win in fights between popular video game characters, and in yesterday's episode,
they determined who would win between Virgil from Devil May Cry and Raiden from Metal Gear.
Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows
in the DynaMic Podcast Network. We want to give a quick shout out to Zachary Hepburn,
who is the host of Senjou World. It was his birthday this past week. So happy birthday
man. If I could get you any gift from Marvel, it would be silver samurai's armor. Cause I
think I got you the Muramasa blade last year for your birthday. So I'm gonna go silver samurai's
armor this year. The adamantium suit from the Wolverine movie. That was pretty bad ass. Well,
I'm gonna have to get you the soul taker sword to go with that. I think you already gave him
that. Fuck. Ha ha ha. But also happy birthday to Josh, another one of our patrons. If I were
to give you a gift from Marvel, it would be Wolverine's adamantium claws, because I know
you like Wolverine. Like, I probably wouldn't give you the whole skeleton, because that just
seems like it'd be a pain in the ass. So we'll just go with the claws. Okay, but you're not
going to give him the healing factor as well. So he's just going to stab his hands all the
time. You know what? I'm going to give you Deathstroke's healing factor. You're welcome. Deathstroke
barely has a healing factor. So that's a horrible gift. He's from Marvel. It's fine. And we have
one more birthday wish to give to John Storosky, the host of the console combat podcast, which
we forgot to do last month when it was his birthday. So happy birthday, man. If I could get you
anything from Marvel, it would be the war machine armor, because that's one of the new weapons
being unveiled in the Fortnite season. And being a gamer like yourself, it's just cool. I think
you'd like it. And I would get you a red lantern ring, because while you claim to be on the
fence between Marvel and DC, we all know your team red, bro. So happy birthday to all you
guys, Zach, Josh, and John, but with that out of the way, quick to the No Prize! A No Prize
is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is
a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to
our question of the week. Last week we asked you guys, which upcoming Marvel Studios film
or show are you most looking forward to and why? And this is coming off of all of the leaked
trailers that were presented during the D23 event for Disney investors a couple of weeks
ago. We got two whole answers, so let's go ahead and run down the honorable mention and the
no prize winner. Our honorable mention goes to Kat Stevenson, who said, Hi guys, it's Kat
Stevenson again, and the one that I am most excited for is Ironheart. Ironheart, I feel,
is going to be a lot about taking over from Tony Stark's legacy. especially leading up
to Secret Wars and Doomsday with Robert Downey Jr. coming back. I can't wait to see what they
do with Ironheart to help build her and build herself off of the Iron Man legacy. Thank you
guys. Have a good day. Yeah, I wasn't too excited for Ironheart myself. Just coming off of my
reception to Dominique Thorne's performance as Reeve Williams in Wakanda Forever, I wasn't
a fan of it. But when I saw the leaked trailer for Ironheart and the app- approach that they
were taking to the story where it was almost like a set it off type plot where she starts
stealing money to help fund her research and development of the new armor. I thought it
was a pretty interesting angle and the hood looks really cool as well. So I can see why
people are looking forward to this now because I am. Yeah, I'm not quite sure it's going to
delve into her kind of taking up Tony Stark's legacy. I didn't get that from the trailer.
That's what I thought the show was going to be about. But like you, the trailer did definitely
get me intrigued for the project. Great answer, Kat, but the winner of this week's no prize
is Lizzie Dyer Arnie, who said, Hey, it's Lizzie. So it's been six years since season three of
Daredevil. No question. That's the one I'm most looking forward to. Six years. That's a really
long time ago. I think we're way overdue and I cannot wait for season four. Season 3 of
the Daredevil Netflix series is among the best projects that Marvel television has ever produced.
And now that the show is under the Marvel Studios umbrella, and it's apparently not a reboot,
more like a Season 4 of that show, it just looks incredible. The leaked trailer for Daredevil
Born Again was probably my favorite trailer to come out of this year's D23. And with all
the returning characters and all the new characters that they'll be introducing, like White Tiger
and Muse, it looks like it's going to be phenomenal. especially as the Daredevil franchise begins
folding itself into the greater Marvel Cinematic Universe. Yeah, we gave season 3 of Daredevil
a perfect rating because how could you not? That season was incredible. I'm really looking
forward to see where they take that story. The leaked footage was awesome. So yeah, it's really
easy to get pumped for Daredevil. So congrats again to Lizzie Dyer Arnie for winning this
week's No Prize. If you the listener want a shot at winning your own No Prize, stay tuned
to later on this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. And now that
that's done, on to the news!
Alright, this past week we got the official trailer number two, although it's not being
called official trailer number two, for Craven the Hunter. We got our first official trailer
almost a year ago for this movie, but it's been delayed so many times now. It's coming out
this December, and so the time came for another new trailer, and this one was pretty action-packed.
Of course, this is part of the Sony Spider-Man universe, along with Madame Web and the upcoming
Venom The Last Dance movie. It's crazy that Sony's releasing three Spider-Man related movies
this year because the whole point of making and releasing these films for that company
is to retain the rights to the Spider-Man character. And to that end, you would probably want to
stagger these out over the years so that you retain the rights that much longer. But I feel
like Sony is going to lose a lot of money this year on the Spider-Man franchise and hopefully
that's a good thing. Like, hopefully, the rights end up reverting back to Marvel due to the
epic disaster that this film will probably be. Because I wasn't impressed with this trailer
too much. Despite the action, there was very little inclination of what the movie is actually
going to be about. Yeah, it feels like they're really trying to oversell me on the violence.
It's like, OK, like you do some pretty crazy stuff, like trap a guy's head in a bear trap
and like split a guy in half with a tree trunk and some ropes and stuff like that, which is
pretty wild. But I don't know, like violence isn't going to sell me on a movie. I want to
know what the story is. I want to know what the stakes are. Things like that to me. This
is like Aaron Taylor Johnson just doing a bunch of violence and then posing like a GQ model.
You know, this is GQ Craven. And I'm like, why? I mean, the last trailer that we got kind of
gave us a hint at the background of the character, right? We know that he comes from a family
of hunters, that he was bitten by a radioactive lion or some shit. And so he got super strength
and speed and stuff like that. But we don't know exactly who the bad guy is, what their
aims are. and we didn't get any more information about that for this trailer. We know that one
of the bad guys is going to be the Rhino. And I will say that the Rhino looks pretty cool.
It looks like the actor who plays Alexei Sistovich is going to be injecting himself with some
kind of like Rhino serum, I guess. And it transforms him into this Rhino looking dude. And the character
design is pretty good, but it's strange because the Rhino is not typically a Kraven villain,
you know? Though I think it makes sense for him. For sure. Yeah, I'll give you that. We
know that Craven's brother, Dmitri Smirdyakov, is also in this movie, who is known as the
chameleon in the comic books. And while they typically work together in the books, I'm wondering
if maybe his brother is the main antagonist in this film, especially the lines that he
has in this trailer where he's like, you're just after another trophy or something like
that, you know? Oh yeah, setting up like a sibling rivalry. That would make sense. Yeah. Maybe
they'll give him like radioactive chameleon blood, you know, sort of like how the rhino
guy shooting radioactive rhino blood into him. Yeah, he'll shoot himself with chameleon blood
and then be able to take on the appearance of anyone. So stupid. I hope they don't do that,
but I also kind of hope they do because this movie, I don't think deserves to do well just
by virtue of the fact that one, it doesn't look good and two, it's made by Sony. And I think
the sooner that Marvel gets the rights back, the sooner that will stop getting crappy movies
like Madame Web and most likely this movie. Now, to be fair, a lot of the reason you're
trashing this is because of Sony's reputation but what if the movie is good? If the movie
is good I'll eat my words. If I enjoy it, sure. I mean I did that with the first Venom movie
which I enjoyed. I hated Let There Be Carnage. Did not enjoy that one at all. But you know
if this ends up being more like the first Venom movie and actually brings something new to
the table in the way that film did, then yeah. But as of right now, judging off of this trailer
and everything else I've seen for the movie, I'm ambivalent about it. And since I'm not
too excited for this, I don't think that the question of the week this episode will tie
into the Craven trailer. And instead, we're gonna kind of riff on our previous question
of the week with this new question.
Which upcoming DC Studios film or show are you most looking forward to and why? Record your
answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand
corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could
be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the
podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer, and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that
we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before August 24th.
That's all of the news this week, so now let's move on to the main event of this episode,
in which we review DC's latest direct-to-video animated film, Watchmen Chapter 1.
Alright, Watchmen Chapter 1 is the first of a two-part computer-animated adaptation of
the seminal 1986 comic series by writer Alan Moore and artist Dave Gibbons. It cannot be
overstated how much of an impact Watchmen had on the comic book medium and superhero genre.
Recent works like The Boys, Kick-Ass, Invincible, and even to an extent DC's Snyderverse, with
their attempts at deconstructing flawed, morally ambiguous, and psychologically complex superheroes
owe a considerable amount to The Watchmen Story, which was the first mainstream superhero comic
intended for mature audiences and to successfully achieve literary success with accolades such
as the Hugo Award, the Kirby Award, the Eisner Award, and was the only comic work listed on
Time Magazine's list of the 100 best novels of all time. It is in arguably the most celebrated
comic book ever made and it continues to be one of the best selling graphic novels year
after year, which is probably why Warner Bros continues to adapt it to other mediums. It
is a fool's errand because Watchmen is the best example I could think of a story tailor-made
for the comic medium in the way it was expertly paced and creatively laid out on the pages.
Though I will also admit that I've enjoyed basically every adaptation of the story, most notably
Zack Snyder's 2009 live-action film, which we've reviewed on this podcast. Snyder's film was
mostly faithful to the source material, even recreating some comic panels in the framing
of certain scenes, but it also took some liberties with the story, which I honestly didn't mind.
The mediums of comics and film are very similar in that they're both comprised of pictures,
And it's not like I wanted the live action film to replace anyone's need to read the graphic
novel, which I will say everyone does need to do. Now while I was excited for this animated
film adaptation, my biggest fear was that it would be too faithful to the source material,
to the degree that people would not need to read the book. And as I watched Watchmen Chapter
1, I admittedly found it really hard. to enjoy because it is indeed the most faithful adaptation
of the source material outside of the motion comic which essentially was just an audiobook.
Now, reviewing Watchmen Chapter 1 is in essence like reviewing an abridged version of the first
issues of the comic series. So if you haven't read the comic and haven't seen this animated
film, just know that doing one will spoil the other and will essentially be spoiling both
in this spoiler review. Yeah, Watchmen Chapter One is faithful to a fault. And I think a lot
of people would come at me for saying that because, you know, it's every fanboy's dream to essentially
see direct translations from the source material to the movie medium. And that's valid. I think
if Zack Snyder's 2009 live action film didn't exist, this review would be an entirely different
thing, right? Because it would be cool to actually see these characters move in three dimensional
space and hear their voices and stuff like that. But... because it's coming off of the back
of Zack Snyder's movie, which arguably did a superior version of adapting the story to the
screen. This feels uber redundant, as I mentioned in our discussion of the trailers for this
movie. Yeah, absolutely. It's like Marvel doing an animated version of the first Avengers film.
It's like, why? The first Avengers film is already a thing. Right, exactly. I will absolutely
give credit where credit is due. You from the first trailer said that this looked like it
would be redundant and I didn't want to hear it You told me that I was butt hurt and that
you were gonna get me a hemorrhoid pillow and cream for when I watched this movie And yeah
got butt hurt about it And you know what? I wish I had that pillow and that cream because
I was butt hurt when I was watching this movie because it just felt So fucking pointless.
I was like, why am I doing this? I know this story. I've read it so many times I mean, yeah,
sign me up for that pillow and cream because, you know, same, right? At the time, I didn't
want to hear it because I argued that this animated adaptation and the graphic novel could coexist
in much the same way that the book and live action version do. But I'm not going to say
that they should have never made this animated adaptation because the story is still really
good and still really relevant. And while I'll always recommend the book because it has several
more layers of depth and artistry, What I don't want to do is be a book snob to someone who
only has time to watch the film because it's one way to appreciate the story, a slightly
inferior one. That's going to be the case for 99.9% of book to screen adaptations anyway.
Now, I reread Watchmen like every other year. I own several copies of the book and when I
hand them out to someone to read, I often find myself reading it alongside with them. And
just about every time I do... I notice something that I overlooked before or I find a new appreciation
for how consistently relevant the book remains across the decades. I enjoy rereading the book
so I thought I would enjoy watching this film but like you mentioned watching this film I
couldn't help but think man I already know the story this is a waste of time. Watchmen as
an entire story does have this sixth sense-esque killer twist that I won't spoil here. And while
it's fun to spot all of the foreshadowing upon revisiting the story, that really didn't save
the somewhat disappointing experience I had in watching this film. Because Watchmen Chapter
1 was so faithful, there's nothing really to scrutinize other than the animation and voice
performances, which I mean, neither were bad enough for scolding criticisms or profound
enough to warrant too much commentary. The animation was fine. I've seen people compare it to Marvel
Television's animated What If series, and it's not as good, I will admit, but barely. The
characters are a little bit more robotic in their movements, and the textures are a little
bit more cheap, but the line work they incorporated made it more reminiscent of artist Dave Gibbon's
comic artwork, and there are brief scenes where the lighting almost makes the animation look
live action. It doesn't look as good as Zack Snyder's film. but I can see how some Watchmen
fans would actually prefer the colorful, cartoony look for the story, since Watchmen itself is
something of a satire of the superhero genre. And one of the criticisms of Snyder's adaptation
is that its dark and grim aesthetic resulted in a film that took itself too seriously. Though
personally, I would argue that's a good thing. Yeah, I was one of the people that compared
the look of this movie to the What If Disney Plus animated series, and you're right, it's
not as good. The What If show is very fluid in its characters' motions and facial expressions
and stuff like that. Here, everything was very robotic and stiff to the point that it almost
felt like a video game cutscene extended over a feature length runtime. I could see that.
You know, I'm not surprised, though, because you're going up against Disney animators who
are literally at the top of their game in the industry. It's so you admit that Marvel is
better than DC. I do not recall saying any such words. It's essentially what you just said.
I just said Disney animators are better than basically any other animation, except for maybe
like Studio Ghibli. OK, all right. Yeah. So Marvel's better than DC. Oh, my gosh. OK. But
animation aside, I do want to talk more about the voice cast in our character breakdown.
Just overall though, it wasn't bad and it was a lot closer to how I read the lines than what
the actors did in the live-action adaptation. Though that doesn't necessarily mean the voice
actors for the animated film did a better job than the actors. Actually if I had a choice
between recommending Snyder's live-action film or this animated version. right now I'd say
go with Snyder's version, though that may change after seeing Chapter 2. And if I thought they
also planned on watching the HBO sequel series, because that ignores creative liberties Snyder's
film took with the story. If they're watching the HBO series, definitely go with this animated
version. Now regarding the story, this film, like Snyder's version, took some liberties,
but they impacted the story fairly minimally. Like most of the changes involved rearranging
flashback scenes throughout the film that normally happened during the comedian's funeral, you
know, soon after various characters learned of his death. And I didn't mind that, you know,
I didn't mind them cutting certain lines. Like I said, it's an abridged version of the novel.
And despite that, the filmmakers, namely the screenwriter J. Michael Straczynski, who's
a comic book writer, managed to successfully translate the genius that is writer Alan Moore,
who uses this technique in his writing where dialogue or narration from one scene is overlaid
onto a different concurrent scene, creating this cross-contextual resonance. The text is
not only relevant to the scene it originates from, but also adds layers of meaning to the
scene. overlays and this interplay between dialogue and visuals deepens the story's thematic impact
and draws these connections between scenes that otherwise would not exist. You know, for example,
a government agent could be debriefing Dr. Manhattan about what can and can't be mentioned during
an interview, warning him not to get into any tight corners. But that voiceover is played
over Dan and Laurie walking into a narrow alley as they're being pursued by a gang of not tops.
It adds this complexity to the narrative in that it encourages readers or viewers to engage
with the words on multiple levels simultaneously. There's a few, very few comic writers who can
do that technique effectively, but Alan Moore is the absolute master of it. Now, the biggest
problem I had with Watchmen Chapter One's story is that it's only half of a story. And what
could be considered the climax of the film, the standoff between Rorschach and the police,
wasn't expanded upon or drawn out in any kind of climactic way. So the film ends on this
anticlimactic cliffhanger that's pretty unsatisfying and completely unnecessary, considering the
film is about five minutes shy of a standard 90 minute runtime. Like, you couldn't give
me five more minutes of action. Everyone knows who listens to this podcast that I don't mind
long runtimes. Zack Snyder's Justice League is four hours. The Batman is about three hours.
Our past two episodes have been reviews of five hour long television series that I binged and
I've come to the realization that if you really wanted to do an animated Watchmen adaptation
justice at the bare minimum, you should just make each comic issue a 20 minute long episode
of a 12 episode television series. That would be perfect. And you know, the things that the
film and television mediums have over comic books is action and movement. Right. And if
they could have drawn out some of those fight sequences, some of those climactic battles
where we have Ozzy Medeus going up against the assassin and you have Rorschach going up against
the police and stuff like that, they could have drawn those out longer. And they had the opportunity
to do that, not just to extend the runtime, but provide a more cinematic experience for
the viewer. Exactly. Yeah. Cinematic. I could not have said that better myself. Now, anyone
who's listened to this podcast for a while has also heard me say a thousand times that one
of the reasons DC Comics is better than Marvel is because DC's characters are pure archetypes
and symbols of virtue, these true heroes unburdened by character flaws. Now when I say that, I'm
100% not talking about Watchmen. Watchmen was Alan Moore's way of criticizing DC superheroes
by showing us a world of unconventional superheroes that are these insecure or immoral or nihilistic
humans. whose motivations for vigilantism would not and should not be trusted or accepted by
the public. In that case, you can kind of say that the Watchmen story is DC's most Marvel
tale. Yeah, but only if Marvel was like good, you know, it's like DC could do Marvel better
than Marvel could do Marvel. No, they can't shut up. But let's get more into these flawed
characters in our character breakdown, starting with Rorschach. Now Rorschach was voiced by
Titus Welliver, the star of the Amazon series Bosh, and who you may also recognize from shows
like The Good Wife or Deadwood or films like Argo. I know the guy's face, but I didn't know
his name or his voice, apparently. I felt like he was doing an impression of the Rorschach
actor from the live action film Jackie Earl Haley. And though Haley did it better, I wouldn't
say Titus Welliver did a bad job by any means. There was nothing like new or unique or superior.
to his performance over what we got in the Zack Snyder film. If you had told me that Jackie
Earl Haley actually did the voice for the character again, I totally would have believed you. I
wish that they would have tried a different approach. Like maybe go for like a very monotone
serial killer spooky type voice, you know. But yeah, what does that sound like? Kind of like
your voice, but fuck you.
I guess a good reference for that would be Michael C. Hall's performance in the Dexter television
show. He did a lot of narration across all of those episodes and just his cold voice, I thought,
could have provided a good template for this version of Rorschach. Interesting. I think
you're going to go more along the lines of something like Buffalo Bill and be like, put the lotion
in the basket. Never compromise. Never in the face of a barbeque. That's weird. No, I just,
I mean, to me, he kind of sounded like. Gravely, Batman, and I think they could have done something
unique just to help separate this from Zack Snyder's film and draw fewer comparisons. Yeah,
that would have been great if they would have tried something new. Again, though, I didn't
mind this. Now the first half of The Watchman's story, Rorschach is the only active street
vigilante driven by his uncompromising black and white moral philosophy to punish those
who have done wrong and evil. When investigating the murder of Edward Blake. Rorschach learns
that he was the comedian, a former vigilante turned government agent in middle age. His
arc involves a descent into obsession and conspiracy as he arrives at the possibility that someone
is killing former costumed heroes, and his obsession shows just how much he's willing to alienate
his remaining relationships and hurt anyone in pursuit of justice. Yeah, it's really hard
to add commentary to the character of Rorschach as a character in this film that hasn't already
been said about. The comic book character. I liked the movement of Rorschach's mask in this
movie, though. You mean more than the live action version? No, no, of course not. No. OK. No,
no, no. Yeah, the whole concept of Rorschach's mask, how it is constantly shifting. I always
thought has been a really cool one. Like, there's no other costumed mask character in the comics
that's like that. Moving on to Dan Dreiberg, aka Night Owl 2. He was voiced by Matthew Riz.
He's not a big name. I'm not too familiar with his other work, but I also kind of felt like
his performance was somewhat inspired by Patrick Wilson's take on the character in live action.
Yeah, if I was the director of this animated film, I would have told the actors to not watch
at all the Zack Snyder film if they haven't already, but it looks like what these guys
did is went and watched Zack Snyder's film and then just tried to do that exactly. I mean,
everyone's seen Zack Snyder's film. It's a great movie! Well, they should have tried to erase
it from their brains and come up with a new approach. Do you think Matthew Riz did a better
job than Patrick Wilson? Because I actually do. Really? What? No, I don't at all. I loved
Patrick Wilson's take on Night Owl. Well, I mean, who doesn't? Everyone does. But regarding
his arc, you know, Dan starts out as a retired superhero struggling with a sense of purposelessness
in a world that no longer values masked vigilantes, you know, living a quiet, lonely life. that
changes when Rorschach warns him of his conspiracy that someone is targeting former masked heroes.
Dan's interactions with Laurie Uspechek betray his insecurity, which seemingly contrasts with
his former superhero persona. As Dan reconnects with Laurie, he begins to reconnect with his
old identity, grappling with the harsh realities of the world around him. Now his arc is one
of... tentative reawakening as he slowly reclaims his role as Night Owl and grows closer with
Laurie. It's essentially the story of how Night Owl got his groove back. It's a good way to
put it. But speaking of Laurie, aka Silk Spectre II, she was voiced by Katie Sackoff from Battlestar
Galactica fame, who I thought did a much better job with the character than Malon Ackerman
did. Yeah Malon Ackerman was the weak link of the live action version, but she looked the
part. the movie. I agree. I really liked Katie Sikoff's performance here. It felt different
from Mal and Ackerman's in a way that the previous two characters did not. Right, yeah, I agree.
Now, Laurie is a retired superhero and initially the romantic partner of Dr. Manhattan, who
grapples with her identity and the legacy of her mother, the original Silk Spectre. Living
with Dr. Manhattan, Laurie feels increasingly isolated and disillusioned with her life as
a former superhero and current pacifying companion you could say to Dr. Manhattan. As Dr. Manhattan
grows more and more detached from humanity, however, Laurie rekindles a friendship with
Dent Dryberg, whose loneliness and diminished glory as a superhero allow her to easily relate
to him. When she eventually leaves Dr. Manhattan, she starts to reclaim her own identity, one
independent from the roles her mother and the government imposed on her. and one that she
knowingly or unknowingly uses to manipulate Dan. Laurie's character was always a bit of
a mystery to me in the original story because it really didn't make sense for her, I think,
to redawn the Silk Spectre identity considering her stance on it and her mother and superheroism
in general. It's like she largely did it just to bring Ny'al out of his shell. Yeah, but
I guess I don't see why she did it herself. I was under the impression that was largely
it. Like they were off to go rescue Rorschach and she was going to do it as a superhero.
She kind of found her own way to that lifestyle without, you know, badgering from her mom or
anything like that. But is that a lifestyle that as a character she would even want to
go to? That I don't think rung true from the original story. I think she found excitement
in it. And I think the alleyway scene where she's beating up the gangsters was proof of
that for both her and Dan. They both kind of got hot and bothered by that. So her angle
into Super Hero X was merely just thrill seeking. 100%, yes. So then why wasn't she satisfied
as a hero prior to that? Because she felt like she was only doing it because her mom wanted
her to. What effect did that have on the thrill seeking aspect? Well, who knows how much thrill
seeking she actually got from it considering she was going to be on the same team as Dr.
Manhattan. I always kind of saw her more as like a model than a superhero and the same
goes for the first Silk Spectre. I don't know how much crime fighting they actually got involved
with because it didn't show that in the original comic. Now, May in the expanded Watchmen universe,
I haven't read all of those comics, but maybe the answer is found in there. Maybe. Moving
on to Jonathan Osterman, aka Dr. Manhattan. He was voiced by Michael Cerveris. I'll be
honest, I'm not familiar with his work. Apparently he played Professor Pig in the Gotham television
series though. Interesting. I did not like his performance at all. His was the one performance
where I could say was not as good or better than what we got in live action. Well, not
even as a comparison to Billy Crudup's because obviously Crudup's performance in Zack Snyder's
film was exceptional. It was so brilliant. But here, Dr. Manhattan sounded like... literally
an AI voice. Yeah. I guess I can understand the approach, but I did not like the execution
at all. No, it was 100% inferior. Dr. Manhattan is very detached from humanity, yes, but he's
not a robot, right? He's somewhere in between is what I'm guessing. And really, I think Crudup
nailed it, that sort of human yet detached quality to his voice. Absolutely. Not just his voice,
his whole performance in general, like his facial expressions. The Dr. Manhattan in the comic
had way more emotive facial expressions than they gave him in this animated film. I was
actually looking at the comic as I was watching this film the first time I watched it. And
yeah, they stripped a lot of the emotion out of Dr. Manhattan, which was really surprising
to me. Now from the get-go, Dr. Manhattan is portrayed as this detached god-like figure
that struggles to relate to humanity. His transformation into a being of nearly unlimited power made
him distant, viewing human life and emotions with a cold, almost clinical perspective. As
he becomes more involved in geopolitical and international matters, his growing disconnection
from humanity is made evident by his deteriorating relationship with Laurie, who leaves him due
to his emotional absence. When he's accused of causing cancer to people close to him throughout
his life, Dr. Manhattan retreats to Mars, distancing himself from Earth. His arc is one of profound
alienation as he grapples with his loss of humanity and the existential weight of his powers which
will ultimately set the stage for his change of heart and renewed interest in human beings
later on in the story. Why do you think Dr. Manhattan became detached with humanity? Why
does just the ability to perceive time in the fourth dimension and an abundance of superpowers
make you act like a robot? Right? Like Superman has a lot of powers. He doesn't act like a
robot. No, but I mean, Superman also experiences time the same way we do. When you can see so
many things in the way that he sees them, things become more trivial to you for the most part,
I would say. I don't necessarily think so. I think if I could perceive my entire life nonlinearly,
I don't think that would strip me of my personality. No, but when you get to see like the individuel
atomic makeup of people and you find that interesting It's like he said there's no difference in
the number of atoms between a dead human and a live human He doesn't really see them as
humans anymore He just sees them as these ghosts shifting through time as he's able to see all
of time They don't really matter and things don't really matter because it's all just atoms
moving I think even if I were able to see atoms, I would still see people. I guess I never understood
the evolution of John Osterman as a character into Dr. Manhattan. It was just something that
happened, and you had to kind of accept that's who he was, but how he got from point A to
point B just by rebuilding himself, I'll never quite understand. Okay, well think of it this
way. Do you care about the lives of ants? No, not really. Do you care about what they care
about? But human beings would not be ants to me because human beings act different than
ants to me. And yet if you were Dr. Manhattan, they would all be ants to you. No, no, because
he's still carrying on conversations with us and stuff like that. If we were really ants
to Dr. Manhattan, why would he bother communicating with us? Why would he bother interacting with
us? Why would he bother having a girlfriend and having these emotional attachments and
stuff? But it's not like the conversations he's having are interesting to him. In fact, they
become less and less interesting as time goes on. You were Ant-Man and you could talk with
ants. Who the fuck cares what an ant has to say? It's a fucking ant. What? Fuck Ant Bro.
How would you know? You've never talked to one. Oh, I know. Don't worry. All right. OK. There
you go. This conversation has gotten really weird. I think we should move on. Oh, we've
already moved on. It's the future. That's how you perceive time. We're already there. It's
all right. Moving on to Adrian Veit, AKA Ozymandias. He was voiced by Troy Baker. who's a very versatile
and prolific voice actor for a lot of animated work in video games as well. I thought he did
a great job for as little as he was in the movie. I thought he did a better job with the character
than Matthew Goode did in the movie. I didn't really love Matthew Goode's performance in
the live-action version. Well, yeah, Matthew Goode kind of approached it with a German accent,
if I remember correctly, like slightly German or something. Yes. I'm not sure if that was
the right call there, but I would say that in this animated movie, Troy Baker approach the
character in a way that was more consistent with how I read it in the original books. Yeah,
same for me. Although I do have to hand it to the people who wrote Zack Snyder's Watchmen
movie. In many ways, I think they improved upon Alan Moore's original dialogue with lines like
statistically, what murder doesn't constitute a trend or something like that, which Ozymandias
told Rorschach the first time they met. Just lines like that I thought were well done. Or
even lines where he was telling other businessmen like I could buy and sell you 10 times over.
something like that, you know, just to like actually show that this guy really is the richest
guy in the world. Now next to Dr. Manhattan, Adrian is presented as the most capable man
in existence. He's the world's smartest man and a former superhero who successfully transitioned
into a wealthy businessman. Outwardly, Adrian appears to have left his vigilante days behind,
you know, focusing on his global enterprises and philanthropic efforts. But there are hints
that he actually hasn't lost any of his touch as a superhero, as evidenced by the foiled
assassination attempt. His public persona as a benevolent billionaire genius is only a half-truth,
and his arc is one of subtle manipulation and control, though we don't really comprehend
that until later in the story, since in this first half, his true motivations and plans
are nonexistent. Yeah, I kind of forgot just how few appearances the character of Ozymandias
actually makes within the first half of the story, which kind of seems like a misdirection
on behalf of Alan Moore's part considering his role in the second half of the story. You know,
we don't think too much about Ozymandias in this first half. Yes, absolutely. And you know,
that was the case when I first read the comic as well. I thought he was kind of the most
boring character. I didn't really quite understand why he was even in the story or what purpose
he served. But yeah, he's very heavily involved in the story as we find out in the second half.
You know who gave the best Azumandias performance of all time? Who? Jeremy Irons. Oh yeah! Yeah,
that guy was great. That whole show was just so good, I need to rewatch it. I think I will
actually after watching Watchmen Chapter 2 when that comes out next year.
Our fantasies collide and heroes clash. One Podcast Network rises above the rest. Prepare
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Let's move on to the story highlights. A man named Edward Blake is murdered by being thrown
out of the window of a high-rise apartment. The superhero vigilante Rorschach illegally
investigates Blake's murder and discovers Blake was the comedian, a former masked adventurer.
Concerned that Blake's murder could mean that someone is targeting former superheroes, Rorschach
warns his old associates, beginning with Dan Dreiberg, a former superhero known as Night
Owl. When Dan returns home from visiting his mentor Hollis Mason, the original Night Owl,
he finds Rorschach, who broke in, and the two discuss Rorschach's theory regarding a mask
killer, after which Dan remembers an incident from the past when he and the comedian violently
confronted protesters against an ongoing police strike at the time and the hero's vigilantism.
I gotta say, we didn't discuss the comedian in the character breakdown, but I hated this
version of the comedian. Now... I know I've been saying that I wish these voice actors
took a different approach from what was done in Zack Snyder's film. And that's definitely
what the comedian actor did here. But it was just so bad that I wish Jeffrey Dean Morgan
had come back to voice the character. Dude, you are so inconsistent. You want to be the
same? Come on. I wanted Rorschach to be different, but I wanted the comedian to be a little bit
more wry in his delivery, a little bit more ironic. because that's kind of who the character
is, I think. Here he was just angry and one note and frankly, boring. That's fair. Actually,
I mean, the comedian is a character who kind of sees the tragic humor in everything. Right,
he's the ultimate cynic. Yeah. That's his whole thing. That's very fair. Jeffrey Dean Morgan
is such a charming actor. He makes so many like bad guys likable, you know, whether it's here,
whether it's in The Walking Dead, The Boys, a lot of different places. So yeah, if you're
gonna play a character like the comedian who should be played, you know, very human, I guess,
for lack of a better term. I don't want to say sympathetic, but almost. He's not a caricature
like he was portrayed here. He's a piece of shit, but he's not one note, you know? Yeah,
he's very, very complex as a character. Probably the most complex character in Watchmen. So
many lives were affected by him in so many different ways. Now after roughing up patrons at a bar
looking for answers, Rorschach visits Adrian Veit, the former hero known as Ozymandias,
now the current head of Veit Industries as well as the smartest and richest man in the world.
Upon learning what happened to Blake, Adrian remembers a time when the comedian interrupted
a meeting held by Captain Metropolis and the potential formation of a new super team because
he pointed out that nothing they did would be able to stop the world's inevitable apocalyptic
descent into nuclear war. And Adrian's recollection of the comedian is really the one that brings
out the nihilism of the Watchmen story and particularly that of the comedian. I actually liked the
animated performance that Azumandias gave in this scene. The way he would eyeball everyone
who talked to him, kind of like sizing them up and just being very calculating. You really
got that vibe. Yeah, you know, in the comic, the artist who did it, Dave Gibbons, he's a
master of like body language. So it's impressive that they could expand upon that. in something
that moves. I thought they took really great cues from what was going on in the story to
do things and add things like that. I kind of wish Matthew Good would have done that in the
live action movie. Oh yeah, I agree. But instead he kind of acted more like a diva when the
comedian was pissing him off during that meeting. Yeah, again, there's a number of ways in which
this adaptation is better than the live action version. And it's kind of interesting to compare
and contrast the two. Like I said, maybe by the time the second chapter comes out, I'll
end up liking this adaptation more. We'll see. After sneaking his way onto a military base,
Rorschach approaches Dr. Manhattan and Lori Yospechik, the latter being the former hero
and model known as Silk Spectre II, who became agitated upon hearing about the comedian since
he tried to rape her mother, the original Silk Spectre, decades ago. After teleporting Rorschach
away to comfort Lori, she decides to arrange dinner with Dan Dreiberg for old time's sake.
and the two bond over their glory days as heroes. Alone with his scientific work, Dr. Manhattan
recalls his time with the comedian during the Vietnam War, in which they helped America win
the war, and when upon their victory, Dr. Manhattan failed to stop the comedian from killing a
young Vietnamese woman he had impregnated. And it's interesting to see how time goes on from
when Dr. Manhattan first became superpowered to the point where the story takes place. he
becomes more and more detached from humanity over time. And that's evidenced by the fewer
clothes that he wears. Like when he's in Vietnam, he's wearing more clothes than he does in the
present day. And he was wearing more clothes than that when he first began his superhero
career and was even meeting with the Minutemen to form potentially a new team. It's at Vietnam
where I think Dr. Manhattan begins to realize how disconnected he's becoming from humanity
because the comedian was 100% right. He totally let the comedian kill that woman. He could
have stopped him, but he didn't because he's just kind of become this watcher type character
who's just watching time progress as opposed to being physically a part of it. And that's
a huge red flag for the comedian. You know what I miss in this movie though, were the music
choices from the Zack Snyder film. Nah, the music choices and the soundtrack for Zack Snyder's
Watchmen are top notch. I freaking love that soundtrack. It bothered a lot of people and
it bothered a lot of critics. because they thought it was a little bit too on the nose. But I
actually really liked the way it invoked specific time periods and themes, stuff like that. It
was really well done, in my opinion. Like, I wanted to hear Simon Garfunkel's song during
the funeral scene, and I wanted to hear Flight of the Valkyries during the Vietnam War scene
and stuff like that. It was just missed. Yeah, same here. Now, during Blake's funeral, Lori
visits her elderly mother, Sally, who lives retired in California. Upon discussing Blake's
death, Sally remembers when she and Blake, as Silk Spectre and the Comedian, were both members
of the Minutemen superteam, along with other heroes such as the First Night Owl and Hooded
Justice, the latter of whom we see halt Blake's attempted rape of Sally. Dr. Manhattan, Dan
Dreiberg, and Adrian Veidt all attend Blake's funeral, along with an old retired supervillain
known as Molech. Rorschach attacks Molech in his home later that night, believing he may
be the mask killer. only to learn that not only is Malik innocent and dying of cancer, but
that he was visited by a somber and drunken comedian not long before his death, during
which time he gave an ominous yet incoherent warning about a massive plot that somehow involved
Malik and Dr. Manhattan's old girlfriend, Janie Slater. Now how cool is it seeing Hooded Justice
and perceiving him as a black cop wearing white makeup around his eyes with the noose around
his neck that was once used to try to lynch him. Now, I'm not sure how in continuity the
Watchmen HBO television series is. It's totally my head cannon. It should be. It should be
because that was a fantastic origin for Hooded Justice. And yeah, I 100% thought about that
during this scene with him. It kind of adds another layer as to why Hooded Justice didn't
get more involved in punishing the comedian, because the comedian kind of alluded to the
fact that he knew something about Hooded Justice, a seeker of his, that he didn't want to get
out. So he was blackmailed, essentially. I think the comedian knew that Hooded Justice was gay.
Well, yeah, maybe multiple things. Well, a young boy at a newspaper stand reads a comic book
about a stranded pirate that's interwoven into the main plot. Laurie becomes distressed upon
learning that Dr. Manhattan is working on his scientific research simultaneously while they
make love, and she departs for Dan's home to lament her relationship, and the two later
defend themselves from a gang attack. Meanwhile, Dr. Manhattan goes on a talk show to discuss
international tensions and potential war, only to be publicly confronted about a pattern of
cancer diagnoses among those from his past, including Malik and Janie Slater, among others.
Agitated by the accusation that he's the cause, Dr. Manhattan teleports the entire talk show
audience and crew away before grabbing an old photo of himself and Janie at an abandoned
military base and teleporting to Mars to live in seclusion. Now one thing that was missing
from Zack Snyder's adaptation was of course the tales from the Black Freighter storyline
that was interwoven in the comic book. I completely understand why that was omitted because it's
not really pivotal to the plot of Watchmen, but it is fascinating to see how, like I mentioned
earlier, Alan Moore will use text from the comic to relate to the scene that we're currently
viewing. Yeah, I don't think the incorporation of the Tales of the Black Crater comic was
done successfully here. I appreciate how they actually tried to interweave the tale within
this story. but it just goes to show how unique of a medium comic books is and that it felt
very successful in the Watchmen comic. Even though it was an abrupt shift in the pacing
of the overall story, I think for film and television, you need to keep that momentum going. And every
time you go to the Black Friday, it was just really confusing, I think, to any new coming
audiences. Yeah, I can agree with that 100%. I don't think it was unsuccessful entirely
because there were those scenes where it added layers, but you know, if they... dropped it
from the film, I also would not have complained. I think it was just really hard to catch the
relevance of it all the way it was executed here. You know, I'm not 100% you could even
call it relevant. It's not. It's just this literary framing device that, yeah, 100% works in the
comics, but like you mentioned, maybe not anywhere else. With Dr. Manhattan gone, Lori is kicked
out of her shared home on the military base, and worldwide tensions escalate dramatically
now that America is without its protector. Meanwhile, on Mars, Dr. Manhattan relives his past as
the young man Jonathan Osterman, the son of a watchmaker who encouraged him to become a
scientist. He also recalls when he met and fell in love with his scientist co-worker, Janie
Slater, along with the accident that destroyed his body and gave him his superpowers. His
subsequent life with Janie and later Laurie is briefly explored before he creates a massive
clockwork structure made from glass back on Mars. This whole sequence infuriated me, actually,
because it was so inferior to what we got in the live action movie. It just didn't work
here. It was so boring the way the voice actor narrated the jumps through time, giving the
years and everything like that, and the lack of music, you know? It just, it didn't work
as well. nearly as well. It was like a magical sequence within the live action version. And
here I was almost born to death and I couldn't wait for them to just move on with the story.
This sequence is probably one of my most favorite in the movie and the comic. And I would agree
I liked it the least here. There was at one point something they did that was really interesting
where he says, I dropped the photo to the floor and 30 seconds of the future it's already there.
And you actually see that. So it's like looking through his eyes. but they only attempted to
do that one more time where he says, you know, I'm standing looking at the stars and then
you see his body shift into a transparent ghost version of him. I don't know if I'm explaining
it well. Ultimately, it was not done as well as it could have been, though there was a hint
at something possibly genius that they just did not follow through with. With Malak being
mentioned during the talk show, Rorschach revisits and tortures Malak for information, which proves
fruitless. After Dan offers to let Lori live with him for the time, Adrian Veidt is attacked
by an assassin only to disable the killer, though he dies via a cyanide capsule before he can
give Adrian any information. With Dr. Manhattan gone, the comedian dead, and the assassination
attempt on Ozymandias, Rorschach becomes more convinced of his mask killer conspiracy and
revisits Malek, only to find him in his home alone, dead, with a gunshot wound to the head,
along with the gun. just as a swarm of police arrive on the scene. Rorschach attempts to
flee, attacking police officers in the process, but he is soon apprehended and unmasked, revealing
him to be a homeless doomsayer that had been seen walking the streets throughout the film.
I always loved that reveal. I remember being shocked by that in the comics when it's like,
oh, it's that guy, it's the redhead guy with, you know, the sign. There's a lot of things
that happen in these scenes that I can't really touch on until some reveals are made in the
second half of this story. Because I don't want to spoil that for anyone who's just coming
into this fresh. But revisiting these scenes with that in mind just kind of showed the masterwork
of the plan that's going on behind the scenes. And that's something that I always like to
see anytime I re-experience the story. During the end credits, we hear on a radio snippets
from Janie Slater talking about Dr. Manhattan and Hollis Mason talking about his early superhero
career while we see blood slowly drip halfway down the screen and a clock ticking closer
to midnight. And actually really liked that they included that in these end credits. Because
you know, a lot of movies, especially superhero movies will do things with their end credits.
But like, Watchmen is known for the supplemental elements that they included at the end of each
comic. And for them to include portions of that here, I thought was really cool. Like the ticking
clock, like the blood going down the screen, like the different excerpts from books and
radio interviews. That was cool. It was brilliant. I mean, I think you're right. If this was a
12 part television series where each issue was an episode, it would be really fucking cool
to get the supplemental material in the form of like a radio broadcast during the end credits
scene. Dude, 100 percent. I would have loved this as a 12 episode series. I would not put
up past Warner Brothers to do that with like in the next 10 years, just as another adaptation
to give to us. I wouldn't be surprised either. You'd think with the success of the Watchmen
live action television series, maybe they've even thought of doing that, but you know, animation
is cheaper. So they should have just done that here instead of doing what they did. Right.
I don't hate this movie. I feel like a lot of my review may have come across that way because
it is well made, it is a good story. Not everything is as successful as other adaptations, but
it is still a good adaptation, a very faithful one as well. Though despite filmmakers best
intentions, the film is faithful to a fault. In essence, it's an abridged and superfluous
version of the celebrated graphic novel. It was a really hard film to give a star rating
to. But at the end, I decided to go with three out of five stars, just barely recommendable
as an adaptation. It's still a fresh rating, but I'm still always going to recommend the
book over this adaptation 100% of the time. I feel like I would not recommend this movie.
Actually, I would give this a rotten score because at the end of the day, if you're going to read
the book, I'd recommend reading the book. And if you're going to watch a movie, I'd recommend
Zack Snyder's live action film. I would never in any circumstances, I think, recommend this
animated adaptation. Well, you haven't seen the full adaptation yet. That's the problem.
And you're always going to have instances. I come across this all the time where I'm like,
read the book and people are like, I don't have time to read comic books. Okay, well then watch
this movie maybe. Yeah, watch the live action movie because it's better. There's literally
no instance in which I would ever recommend this ever. You have two great options to choose
from the original novel or the 2009 film. I would just pick one of those. I think this
is the most unnecessary thing that DC has ever put out. It's hard. It's so hard because I
really like Watchmen. And I feel like by giving this a Rotten Tomato is the equivalent of saying
I don't like Watchmen or that it's bad. You know, 3 out of 5 stars is right on the cusp
of fresh and rotten. It's 60%. You may have just convinced me. I may give this a rotten
rating. Look within your heart. That's all I'll say. I'm not here to steer you one way or the
other. Well, too bad, because he did. You happy? Yeah, guys, don't be surprised if you see a
rotten rating on this from me on Rotten Tomatoes. Save your death threats. I'm already dead inside
for having to do this as much as it pains me. So yeah, I guess that does it for this review.
Let's wrap this shit up. Agent NK, wrap this shit up. Thanks for listening to Dynamic Duel.
Visit the show's website at dynamicduel.com. and follow us on Instagram at Dynamic Duel
Podcast. You can support the show on Patreon at Patreon.com slash Dynamic Duel and joining
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or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network,
including Max Destruction, Senjo World, and Console Combat. In our next episode. We would
normally be doing yet another review of Suicide Squad Isekai, but I need a freaking break from
these reviews. So we're going to delay that week and we are going to instead be doing a
duel between Arsenal or Red Arrow and White Widow. Right. White Widow is Yelena Belova.
She's played by Florence Pugh in the MCU. And I think it'll be fun to see her beat the shit
out of Arsenal. So looking forward to it. and I'm looking forward to you ending your words
once again when DC wins. So there. But that does it for this episode, we want to give a
big thanks to our executive producers Ken Johnson, John Sierowski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom,
Miggy Mathen-Geehan, Brandon Nestergaard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wazilowski, AJ
Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Andrew Schunk, Dean Molesky, Devin Davis,
Joseph Kirsting, and Josh Leiner for helping make this podcast possible. And we'll talk
to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. The accumulated filth of all their
sex and murder will foam up about their waists, and all the whores and politicians will look
up and shout, Save us! And I'll look down and whisper, Taste the rainbow.