This is a DynaMic Network podcast.
Hi, welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate
the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations.
I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And this past week was Valentine's Day,
during which Marvel released its fourth Captain America movie, Brave New World. And we're going
to review it. This episode, did it live up to the legacy of the previous Captain America
movies? The answer is yes. Yeah, man. Shit, yeah. I believe you get your ass kicked for
saying something otherwise. I don't think it did. Come at me, bro. You're on. We'll talk
about the movie later on this episode. Before that, we're gonna break down the latest comic
book movie news to come out this past week. Of which there was none. We got two big trailers
last week, so I guess I'm not surprised that there's no real big news this week. But we
do have a no-price segment to get through, as well as the review. And of course, we list
our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if
you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent Duel simulator,
AJ 9K, has a quick message for our listeners. So listen up. Why hello there, do you want
even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic Duel community on Patreon, where
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results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamic Duel podcast at gmail.com. Check
it out at patreon.com slash dynamic Duel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ 9k and thanks to everyone
who supports the podcast. Guys, be sure to tune into the other shows and the dynaMic podcast
network this week, including Max destruction, which pits your favorite action heroes from
film and television against each other. This Wednesday, hosts Scotty and Gilly are finding
out who would win in a fight between the MCU's Thor and the DCEU's Black Adam. We said that
that's what they were doing last week, but last week they actually did MCU's Namor versus the
DCEU Aquaman. It's actually pronounced Namor. Yeah, you're right. On the Send Your World
podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga
characters. Zach is on a brief season break right now, but anime fans should check out
his past library of episodes and look forward to the huge episode he has in the works, an
epic 10 vs 10 team Naruto vs team bleach matchup. And on the Konsole Kombat podcast hosts John
and Dean simulate battles between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode, they
found out who'd win in a fight between Chun-Li from Street Fighter and Lee-Mei from Mortal
Kombat. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of
the shows in the DynaMic Podcast Network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize.
A no prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize,
is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer
to our question of the week. Last week, we asked you guys between the Fantastic Four teaser
and the Thunderbolts big game trailer, which got you more hyped and why? And actually we
only got two actual answers for this question this past week because I forgot to change the
question on our website. So a few people who clicked on it answered last week's question.
So shout out to By Dear Bangora and JP from Quebec for giving their answer from last week.
But this week's honorable mention goes to Mike Williams, who said. On the movie I'm most interested
in seeing due to the trailer is the Thunderbolts. to see how they develop the Sentry and how
the Void is headed toward being the villain and how they're going to deal with that just
being regular Joes and not super power the heroes but as Marvel it'll be interesting. Thanks.
Yeah, the Thunderbolts big game trailer was epic. It reveals that the primary villain of
the Thunderbolts movie is going to be the Void who is the dark alter ego of the character
the Sentry. And I have no idea how this ragtag cast of punchers and shooters is going to take
down a character as powerful as The Void. But I think that's one of the major draws of the
film itself. It's really this colorful cast of misfit underdogs going up against these
unspeakable odds. Yeah, like how you described it in our last episode. It's like the Suicide
Squad going up against Superman. And that's a pretty damn good concept. Even though it
feels like they're ripping off DC, I'm still excited to see the film. Yeah, for sure. Great
answer, Mike Williams. But the winner of this week's snow prize is Lee Tapscott. With the
consecutive win, he said, Hi, this is Lee about the question. What am I more excited about?
The Thunderbolts or the Fantastic Four? I think it's going to be the Fantastic Four. Thunderbolts
feels like an end to the story. Tying up loose ends while the Fantastic Four is the beginning
of a new era for Marvel. something that isn't tied down by past movies. So I think Fantastic
Four, I'm looking forward to see what's new. Yeah, I like this answer. The Fantastic Four
movie is gonna be the start of the MCU's phase six of films, whereas, you know, the Thunderbolts
is closing out phase five. And I think there's something to be said for the... tone of the
Fantastic Four movie and how it presents this hopeful feel and the start of something new
and unique and interesting in a way that the Fantastic Four should. They were, you know,
the team that really kickstarted the Marvel era of comic books in the 1960s. I think they
can reinvigorate the MCU in a way that other franchises haven't been able to for a few years
now. Yeah, I like this rationale and it's one that I didn't even really consider because
I've kind of lost track of the different phases that are going on right now in the MCU. I could
be wrong, but I believe the Thunderbolts also ends the Bob Chapek era in Disney. So with
the return of Bob Iger as the head of Disney, we will hopefully see a return to form with
the MCU. I know that Phase 6 is going to focus largely on the multiverse, since we're getting
films like Fantastic Four, which takes place in an alternate dimension. We're getting Avengers
Doomsday. We're getting Avengers Secret Wars. And we're getting the new Spider-Man film,
which I don't know if that involves the multiverse, but at least three of the four films in Phase
6 will, that we know of so far. So great answer, Lee! You win this week's No Prize if you the
listener want a shot at winning your own No Prize. Stay tuned to later on in the episode
when we'll be asking another question of the week. And when you say later on in the episode,
you mean like right now, right? That is correct!
Since we're discussing the Captain America film this episode, what is your favorite Captain
America solo film and why? Of course this includes Captain America The First Avenger, Captain
America The Winter Soldier, Captain America Civil War, and Captain America Brave New World.
And you know what? Let's throw in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier television series and
Black Widow since I think that movie is adjacent to this franchise. And you know what, just
for shits and giggles, let's throw in the 90s Captain America movie. Yeah, and the made for
TV films in the 70s too. All the Captain America stuff. What's your favorite and why? Record
your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right-hand
corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message can be
up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast.
We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that we'll post
to Instagram. Be sure to answer before February 22nd. And I'll make sure to get the proper
question up on the website for everyone who calls in.
With that out of the way, now let's move on to the main event of our episode in which we
review Marvel Studios' latest film to hit theaters, Captain America Brave New World.
Captain America Brave New World was directed by Julius Ona and stars Anthony Mackey, Harrison
Ford, Tim Blake Nelson, and Danny Ramirez. It's the penultimate film in the Marvel Cinematic
Universe's Phase 5 of films and the first theatrical return to the Captain America franchise in
nearly a decade since 2016's Captain America Civil War. Since that film, the Avengers disassembled
and faced the threat of Thanos with Steve Rogers retiring at the end of Endgame and passing
the mantle to the Falcon, aka Sam Wilson. This is true to the comics when Steve Rogers once
had the super soldier serum in his body negated, causing him to advance into old age and he
passed his mantle onto his longtime partner, the Falcon. In the MCU, it was really interesting
watching Sam Wilson handle the idea of continuing Steve Rogers' legacy in the Falcon and the
Winter Soldier television series. where he ultimately came to terms with the idea of taking on the
legacy and donning Captain America's shield. The big question in this Brave New World film
was, now that Sam's made his decision to be the new Cap, would he be able to live up to
Steve's legacy? And it's a query that played out not only in the cinematic world of the
MCU, but also in real life as fans wondered if this new movie would live up to the legacy
of Captain America's films that came before it. And as far as I'm concerned, yeah. it did.
If you haven't seen the film yet, I think that's all you need to know for now, so I recommend
seeing the movie, then coming back and listening to our spoiler review. So here's your spoiler
warning. Now I'm not going to say that Captain America Brave New World was as good as either
Captain America The Winter Soldier or Captain America Civil War, but I do think it was as
good, if not better, than the tangential film in the Captain America franchise, which was
Black Widow. If you listened to our review of that film, we liked it. You know, we said Black
Widow wasn't without its own problems, such as taking liberties with the villains from
the comics. But we also set ahead some great action set pieces, a solid, thriller-y plot
and meaningful characterization for the protagonists. I feel the same here in that while Brave New
World couldn't quite reach the heights of the very best MCU films, it is in itself a good
film. And I think a lot of people, including fatigued critics and audiences, are claiming
that if a film can't be among the best, then it's comparatively bad. And I think that's
a mistake. I know we've stated this on the podcast before that quality exists on a spectrum. Quality
is not a pass fail concept. Even though platforms like Rotten Tomatoes do actively push that.
But like if you wanna see bad, see Howard the Duck, see Catwoman, or literally any other
DC movie for that matter. If you wanna see mediocre, go see Venom or Iron Man 3. If you wanna see
good, you know, see Captain America Brave New World. And if you wanna see great, of course,
go see like Logan or Avengers Infinity War, but that's neither here nor there. I don't
feel like I should have to say it, but near perfect films are rare, but they aren't the
only films worth seeing. I walked away from the theater pleased with Brave New World's
quality, and I don't think we could have asked for a whole lot more than what we got here.
I don't think I've heard anyone say that this is a bad film. I've heard people say that it's
low tier Marvel, which go watch Love and Thunder if you wanna see low tier Marvel. That's fair.
I think it's closer to low tier than it is to high tier. I definitely think it's the worst
Captain America movie. That said, it's not a bad movie. I think the comparison to Black
Widow is fair, although I would even say that Black Widow is slightly better in my opinion.
Well, your opinion is trash. It's pure garbage. I would actually rate Captain America Brave
New World as, yeah sure, mid-tier, but closer to top-tier than low-tier. I think one of the
best things about Captain America Brave New World is how it handles continuity in that
it both resolves dangling plot threads from the MCU and advances the overall plot of Earth's
Mightiest Heroes in a meaningful way. Right, it picked up the threads left in The Eternals
and The Incredible Hulk. Right. Yeah, like for quite a while we've been saying that the biggest...
detriment to Marvel Studios right now is that the film universe feels less cohesive than
it's ever been, with tons of abandoned concepts, unconnected characters, and loose threads that
make things feel hard to keep up with for general audiences. Commendably, Brave New World continues
the story of Captain America and the Avengers, and a little bit of the multiverse stuff regarding
the end credits stinger. But like you said regarding The Incredible Hulk, this movie almost feels
like a quasi-sequel. to 2008's Incredible Hulk, picking up one of the longest standing plot
threads ever in regard to what happened to Samuel Stearns, aka the leader, at the end of that
movie. Brave New World also addresses, like you said, the Eternals with that big ass celestial
that rose from the planet's core, which has been a question on a lot of our minds considering
that big giant coming out of the earth hasn't been addressed in any movies since the Eternals.
Which is a huge fucking elephant in the room to just gloss over. Right, right. So I appreciated
this movie for restoring some of that cohesiveness in the MCU in that like yeah, it feels like
things are starting to come together somewhat and lead up to Phase Six and Avengers Doomsday
and Secret Wars. However, despite cohearing things up a little bit, the movie could still
potentially lose some audiences I think who don't remember plot points from films over
15 years ago, or who didn't know that Harrison Ford is filling in for William Hurt who played
Thunderbolt or audiences who didn't watch The Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney+. Like
I bet there were a lot of people who were introduced to Isaiah Bradley in this movie and were like,
did I miss something? Like who the hell is this guy? And why is Cap so motivated in helping
him? I guarantee you that is 100% the case and I theorize that's probably why a lot of audiences
are responding to this film the way they are. Like this film has the lowest cinema score
of any Marvel movie. in MCU history. Which is fucking bananas. Yeah, I got a B minus. And
I always have to guarantee you that it's because people just have not been keeping up with Marvel.
Yeah, the movie also has like a 52% on Rotten Tomatoes, which pisses me off, frankly. I feel
like going on a slapping spree with all the dum-dums out there. This movie is not the worst
MCU movie that's ever come out. Sorry, that goes to Thor, Love and Thunder. But like, you
wanna tell audiences you don't know who Isaiah Bradley is, That just means you didn't do your
homework. So go get a Disney Plus subscription and watch the six episode Falcon and the Winter
Soldier series and pay attention to Isaiah's backstory, you son of a bitch, then come back
and re-watch Brave New World with that context. I don't wanna do homework, fuck that. It is
a lot to ask. I also think like a lot of the audience is probably like, am I supposed to
know this Samuel Sterns character? You know, because he does look different than he did
in The Incredible Hulk, considering he has that gamma brain now. Even my wife, who has seen
The Incredible Hulk like three times, still didn't remember Tim Blake Nelson's character.
Well, it's a lot because Samuel Sterns looks different. Thunderbolt Ross looks different.
Even the actor who played the Hulk in that movie is different. That's true. That's true. The
only one who came back was Liv Tyler in the barest of cameos. Right. These like type of
Easter egg. callback elements are definitely rewarding for the fans. And not even all the
fans, like I would say the fans with good memories, you know. So I just think Marvel's gonna continue
to see diminishing returns on these types of things solely because their continuity is approaching
20 years now. And you know, it's not the worst problem to have. DC would love to have this
kind of problem, but it is still a problem. I don't want Marvel's problems, ugh. Better
than DC's problems. Hey, we don't have any problems right now, bro. We're just starting out. I
did really like the action of this movie from the Oaxaca fight to the Sidewinder Street battle.
The Echo One prison fight was pretty good and especially the aerial battle above Celestial
Island. And, you know, the Red Hulk standoff was pretty good, too. I think one of the best
things about Sam Wilson as the Falcon and as now Captain America, and I feel like people
don't recognize this enough, is that how thrilling it is to see him in action. in his wingsuit.
Yeah, Sam's not as impressive a fighter as Steve Rogers. You know, his ground combat can't match
Steve's fight against like Batroc or, you know, even Shang-Chi's martial arts prowess. But
in the sky, Sam Wilson's like, wow, like I'll be damned if his aerial dogfights aren't a
sight to behold. It's basically the best thing about the character and it's unique to his
character as well. Yeah, I didn't love the action in this film. I've seen a lot of people say
that the choreography was pretty slow, and I would agree. That said, I don't know if that
was a conscious choice made on behalf of the filmmakers and the editing room to emphasize
the fact that Sam is not a super soldier, but I would definitely say it was a noticeable
downgrade from other Captain America films. They definitely made it clear, intentionally
or not, within the course of this film, that things are more difficult for Sam. You know,
he doesn't have the super soldier serum. It does take more effort on his part to try to
be Captain America. That said, he does seem to have a superpower of being able to get stabbed
in the torso however many times he wants and still keep going. It was really only like three
times. It was like six times. What? Yeah. You got stabbed with like an axe, a knife, like
something had to hit some kind of organ. Those things were deep. Band-aids are a thing. OK.
Anti-bacterial cream, Neosporin is a thing. Just throw some Vicks on that. There you go.
Now, I've maintained that the Falcons dogfight in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier television
series in Tunisia, that opening action scene, it's really one of Marvel's best action scenes
in anything that they've ever produced ever. Oh, yeah. And Sam's dogfight here near Celestial
Island. I thought that was fucking awesome, too. Not as good as the Tunisia fight, I would
argue. But yeah, still not terrible. It harkened back to like the Iron Man aerial battles that
I loved watching. Yeah, from Iron Man one. Yeah, I think the Celestial Island dogfight was the
actual action climax of the film, because although the fight against Red Hulk wasn't bad, it just
wasn't as much in Sam Wilson's element. That's not to say I didn't like the end fight. I actually
really liked how Cap just absolutely didn't fucking stand a chance against Red Hulk, so
it was more about. survival and you know appealing to Red Hulk's emotional state. Yeah I've joked
on the discord that Sam Wilson's superpower is seemingly therapy. He has therapy powers
because that's how he finished the whole because that's how he finished the Red Hulk in this
climactic end battle. It was kind of anti-climactic. In a way but Sam does have counselor powers
you know when he met Steve Rogers in the MCU he was a trauma counselor for veterans. It's
a big part of his character. to approach conflict with reason before fists. Like if you look
at the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series, there was that moment where he nearly talked
Flag Smasher into giving up her whole agenda before that dumb ass John Walker US agent barged
in. And I will say that's a great aspect of the Sam Wilson character, who is a great longstanding
character in the MCU with that great history. That said, it's not a very cinematic, quote
unquote, superpower. And I was left kind of disappointed by the end battle with the Red
Hulk, just de powering himself after looking at a cherry blossom petal in his palm. Come
on. It was poetic, man. It was that was poetry. Yeah. What are you talking about? No, I didn't
like it. It was vaguely reminiscent of how the big climactic Hulk versus army fight ended
in the 2003 Ang Lee Hulk movie. when Betty showed up and it calmed Hulk down enough to revert
to his human form. It also happened in the 2008 Incredible Hulk film during the campus fight
when Betty showed up he protected her from the crashing helicopter and then like jumped away
with her. She's kind of been this calming influence on these climactic battles and although she
didn't technically show up during this end fight, you know, her name was evoked and the Red Hulk
had a good enough tangible memento of her to think about his daughter enough. turn back
into his human form. I do think that the film did a good job of continuing the political
thriller aspect that has become a staple of the Captain America franchise, starting with
The Winter Soldier. You know, in that first sequel, all the paranoia came from not knowing
who was a bad guy because Hydra had infiltrated SHIELD. In the Black Widow movie, the paranoia
came from not knowing when Taskmaster or one of the stealthy mind-controlled Black Widows
would attack. And in Brave New World... The paranoia came from not knowing who was unknowingly
a mind control agent of the leader. You actually notice quite a few similarities between this
film and The Winter Soldier, that being one of them. I think this tried pretty hard to
recapture that same political thriller magic as The Winter Soldier. I don't think it was
as successful, but there was that and there was also the scene of, you know, Captain America
and his sidekick going into that deep basement where there was that secret villain there.
Are you referring to Steve Rogers and Natasha Romanoff going into Camp Lehigh and finding
Arnim Zola? Yes, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. And then there was also, of course, the machine
gun battle on the streets between Winter Soldier and Cap. Yeah, I will say that Julius Ona,
the director, is not at the level of the Russo brothers. I would definitely agree with that
100%. Which is not saying much, I don't think, because, you know, the Russo brothers directed
Infinity War and Endgame. And they're pretty much... at the top of their league when it
comes to these superhero films. I think the subpar direction in this film was noticeable.
I also think the budget on this film was noticeable. This film was only made for one hundred and
eighty million dollars, which by Marvel standards is pretty cheap. Like the film is already going
to make its budget back with this four day holiday weekend. Yeah, which is badass. I think it
made just under two hundred million dollars worldwide. I mean, it's still making less than
something like quantumania. We'll see what the second week drop is for this film. If it compares
to as devastating a drop as quantumania had. But yeah, to me, that's still not that big
of a feat, because to me, it just says that the movie was really cheap. And there was a
lot of shots where you could see that was the case. Jonathan, what DC movie made its entire
budget back in the opening weekend? I don't keep track of this shit. I just read this.
This is how I know. Let me go back and find out. How about none of them, except for maybe
the Batman? You don't know that. I can see that happening. But let's go ahead and get into
our character breakdown, starting with Captain America, aka Sam Wilson, played by Anthony
Mackie. I really like Anthony Mackie as an actor. We've talked about him before. You know, he's
a really well-trained alumni of Juilliard. There's really nothing he can't do performance-wise.
So it kind of makes me wish that they would actually do more with the character of Sam
Wilson to have Anthony Mackie show more of his range, like really put him through the wrinker
emotionally. But I think that Mackie... definitely showed he has the presence to lead his own
film as Captain America. I think he proved that here. Yeah, like I said, Sam Wilson is a great
character. I don't think he quite has the presence and charisma of Chris Evans' Steve Rogers,
but I'm not going to say that Anthony Mackie is a bad actor because he is phenomenal, especially
as Sam. His main motivation in this movie was to exonerate Isaiah Bradley from prison, a
man who he knew spent most of his life already wrongfully incarcerated. and who was a big
influence in his decision to take up the shield. This go-round was less about Sam proving himself
worthy like it was in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series, but this was more about doing
what he thought was right by the people around him as Captain America does. Albeit, you know,
without the super soldier serum, which was a big part of his arc in that as he tells Joaquin
at the end of the movie, when you're normal, you just have to try that much harder, be under
that much more pressure, and push yourself. to be almost perfect in order to carry that
mantle, to stand shoulder to shoulder with Norse gods and Jade giants. You know, that kind of
thing seemed effortless for Steve Rogers, but to continue his legacy, you know, you do what
you have to do. I really like that, and I think it's inspiring to the everyman. Like you don't
need a super soldier serum to be a hero. You just need to strive for your best self. And
a jet pack doesn't hurt. Yeah, jet pack. with vibranium wings that can absorb kinetic energy
and then release it explosively, that also does not hurt. Can I say that I understand the reasoning
of why they gave him the vibranium kinetic absorption wings, but I also just hated that he had those?
I agree, I totally agree actually. You know, in the comic books, the wings were a gift from
Black Panther, but the whole kinetic absorption and releasing was really unique to the character
of Black Panther. And I think that giving that ability to Sam Wilson kind of makes Black Panther
less unique, right? I don't think he needed him. I think he was cool enough without that.
Even like at the very beginning with the opening action scene, which in my opinion was the best
action scene in the film with the sonic boom, that was so cool. Yeah, that sonic boom was
fucking bad ass. I mean, the vibranium does explain why he can do a straight nose dive
from, you know. 3000 feet in the air onto the ground without breaking his ankles or turning
into a pile of jelly because you have that absorption I didn't mind that I am wondering what kind
of upgrades they're gonna give the Black Panther suit the next time we see him though Or her
as Shuri in order to make Black Panther just that much cooler, right? It's not like everything
that's vibranium needs to have that same kind of kinetic discharge. It's not like cap shield
ever had that Exactly, exactly. It was something that was a unique technology that Shuri developed
that she incorporated into Black Panther's costume. And then it seems later on into Falcon's costume.
What did you think of the blue suits compared to his white suit? Personally, I actually like
Sam Wilson's white suit more because I think it pops more visually and it's more accurate
to his longstanding Captain America costume from the comic books. All right. I'm indifferent.
I don't know. I am really glad, though, that they ditched the awkward cowl. from the Falcon
and the Winter Soldier series, which was a good call, yeah. The blue suit works too. You know,
the Wakandans, they have good fashion sense, obviously. Let's go ahead and move on to Red
Hulk, AKA Thaddeus Thunderbolt Ross, who was played by Harrison Ford. Now I am not about
to shit on a legend like Harrison Ford. You know, the guy is fucking Han Solo and Indiana
Jones and his influence on these genre films in sci-fi, adventure, and even political thriller
as Jack Ryan. can't be understated. The guy is an icon. That said, I kept wondering how
his lines would have been delivered by William Hurt, who really came to define the role of
Thunderbolt Ross for me through films like The Incredible Hulk and Captain America Civil War
and briefly in Infinity War. No, I agree 100%. Honestly, this film, as much as I hate to say
this, kind of made me wish that Harrison Ford was cast as the character from the get-go.
Yeah, yeah, because I don't think he was bad as Thunderbolt Ross. He certainly was a different
kind of Thunderbolt Ross, you know, a little bit less intense, I think, than William Hurt,
maybe a little bit more grounded. At times, it kind of seemed like Harrison Ford was winking
at the camera in a self-aware sense in his performance. But I really think he sold the more vulnerable
aspects of Thunderbolt Ross, especially when it came to Betty, like when she called him
and when she visited him in the raft, like. Harrison Ford's performance almost had me in
tears at those points. I suppose it was definitely a much more sentimental version of the character
than we've seen in the past. And it kind of took me by surprise. I didn't love his arc,
I would say. There was one scene that he got in this movie that I thought was like truly
explosive, like William Hurt's version of the character, like the comic book character. And
that was during the newsreel that was played at the beginning of the movie. about Thunderbolt's
transition from being a general into a president. And we got this clip of Thunderbolt Ross with
the mustache. And he threw down this podium. And I don't know if you're like trying to lip
read what he was saying, but I was laughing my ass off because he was like, I don't know
what the fuck you're talking about. And just seeing Harrison Ford kind of chew the scenery,
it seemed like he was ad libbing with all these curse words and shit. It was hilarious. I was
laughing. I swore and I saw him say stupid fucking question. Yeah, I think that was what he said.
That was great. He looked great there. I kind of wish he would have kept the mustache. Yeah,
but you know, Red Hulk doesn't have a mustache, so they had to lose it for the movie, I guess.
And I think that's a mistake, too. Red Hulk needs the stash. You think? Absolutely. He
has it currently in the comic book, so who knows? The Red Hulk was not entirely what I expected
in this movie. You know, he wasn't 100% faithful to the comics. You know, he didn't retain Ross's
mind. I couldn't really make out whether or not he actually had his heat powers. Like there
were times where Hila would like a grab a car and it was on fire, but it wasn't clear whether
or not the car was on fire because of his heat powers. Like I remember Ross sweating during
his transformations, but that could also be rationalized that it wasn't due to him being
hot. It was like due to the stress. I didn't get the impression that he had his heat powers
in this movie. I think they tried to do homages to that of sorts in this film, like having
him surrounded by fire. But yeah, I felt like we were kind of cheated of that, especially
because in one of the trailers, when his hand is turning into the Hulk's, like it leaves
this trail of like burning ash. And that was cut from the film. Yeah, I didn't appreciate
that. Maybe they thought that it would require exposition on behalf of general audiences.
So they just decided to leave it on the cutting room floor. But I think that was a mistake,
because if he doesn't have his heat powers, then literally he's just a palette swapped
version of the Hulk. You should have 100% gone that route. And this film had so much exposition
anyway, all it would have taken was a single line to justify it. This film actually turned
out completely different from how I thought it was going to turn out because I thought
they were introducing adamantium because later on in this film, the leader was gonna use it
in some way to become a leader of the world. And that the only thing that was going to take
down his muscle was an adamantium weapon considering its high melting point. It was something that
could defeat the Hulk. without him melting it. You were reading way too much into the adamantium
thing than was necessary. Adamantium is not that big of a plot point within this film and
it didn't need to be. Should have been. I don't think your ideas of what could have made this
movie better detracts from the quality of the film as it exists. Now that's not the claim
you've made in past reviews because you've said that if you could imagine a film can be better
or more closer to the comics or something like that, then you degrade that film. Because if
someone like you could come up with this great idea and the writers couldn't, it shows that
the film could have been better, should have been better, but it just wasn't. Yeah, I do
that for bad films for which it's necessary. This is one of those films. This is absolutely
one of those films. This is not a bad film. Could have been better. It didn't need to be
done. That's like saying, oh yeah, then Bruce Banner shows up and fights the Red Hulk alongside
Captain America. It's like, sure, yeah, you can say that. But there are definitely reasons
why these choices were made for this particular film, which happened to be good. Yeah, budget.
No, I don't think so. Absolutely. No, it was important for Sam Wilson to stand up to the
Red Hulk on his own. I think it was a defining moment for the character's growth and career.
I think if they could have afforded Mark Ruffalo for this film, they could have brought him
on. They would have brought him on. I don't think they would have. He's not necessary for
the story that they're trying to tell here. Let's go ahead and move on to the leader, played
by Tim Blank Nelson. Now if you remember from our Incredible Hulk review, I'm a fan of Tim
Blake Nelson as an actor but I did not enjoy his performance as Samuel Stearns in that movie.
Thankfully, none of his character's cartoonish dopiness survived his time in prison apparently
because he was much more subdued here and cunning and more of what I hoped for from a criminal
mastermind like the leader. His power set was largely depicted in his near precognitive ability
to determine the probabilistic outcomes of events, which I think is more believable with this
character than with characters like Baron Zemo or Lex Luthor, where they were almost precognitive
in their ability to manipulate events in Captain America Civil War and Batman vs Superman Dawn
of Justice. You know, here, the leader is like a gamma-irradiated mutate, and he should have
borderline precognitive abilities to determine events. He also developed neurotropic mind
control technology and medicinal yet gamma irradiated drugs. I thought it was a pretty sufficient
demonstration of his power potential and I was pleased with his characterization. I do really,
really like what they did with the leader here. I don't love his motivation, it seemed kind
of petty, but everything else I loved from the way they interpreted his mind control to the
look of the character. I thought was stellar. Yeah, yeah, regarding his motivation, I was
wondering, like, why was he so angry and vengeful with Thunderbolt Ross for not releasing him
from prison when he could have seemingly so easily escaped on his own at any time? Like,
he had mind control tech, and we saw him escape prison in this movie. He could have easily
done that and arranged for Ross to be killed once he was on the outside, with probably a
much less convoluted plan than what he had here. You know, yes, he wanted Ross to suffer and
to be humiliated. And that was definitely his downfall in this movie because it just got
way too complicated. And I think a guy as smart as the leader wouldn't have needed to wait
to be released by President Ross in the first place. It also didn't make sense to me why
he literally turned himself in at the end. Like, the Falcon didn't even need to defeat him.
He turned himself in for no reason. For sure. For sure. Absolutely no reason. You know, he
was upset with Sam for stopping his grand plan at Celestial Island But like he didn't need
to confront the guy face to face, you know He could have just given him a phone call and
been like fuck you my plan isn't over There's still things to come for President Ross and
you'll see in a moment, you know Yeah, yeah still leaked the phone call and everything
so dumb so dumb again that said I don't want to shit on the character Too much the writing
was bad but the character I thought was awesome. The character was what Hector Hammond should
have been in the Green Lantern movie. Yeah, I mean, like regarding his look, they could
have easily gone the giant forehead route that they did in the Green Lantern movie with Hector
Hammond. I'm really glad that they didn't do that though, because I've always been a fan
of the inside out brain look of the leader more than the giant forehead look, which I think
looks kind of cartoonish and dopey. Although, you know, sometimes with the inside out brain
look, the artists will render their brain hemispheres too far apart and it looks like he has a wrinkly
green scrotum on his head. But I think what they did here with the character in his design
was pretty grounded and definitely not cartoony. So that was good. It was kind of grotesque,
you know? Yeah, for sure. And if I haven't said this, Tim Blake Nelson is a phenomenal actor.
I love what he did with the character here. And I actually do hope we get to see the character
return. I'm actually glad they didn't kill him off in this film. Yeah, me too. I want to see
Bruce Banner interact with him. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Let's go ahead and move
on to Falcon, aka Joaquin Torres, played by Danny Ramirez. I thought Danny Ramirez was
fine here. As we saw in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series, you know, he's a charismatic
actor, if not still growing as an actor, I think. But in most ways, he was the heart of this
film, in that he really looked up to these heroes like we all do, and strived to be like them,
and was really down on himself when he didn't rise to the occasion. I thought this character
sucked. What? The actor, I don't think, did a good enough job. keeping up with the performances
of the people he was on the scenes with. His dialogue was just terrible as well. I thought
he had some fun moments. Like at the beginning of the film when he was like super excited
that he retrieved the adamantium container and he was like, what? No one, no one saw that?
Dumb. Like to do something that cool and have no witnesses, I think I would feel pretty similarly.
It was silly. It was silly nonsense. Marvel trying to be funny with the comedy relief.
It was just not good though. I thought it was funny. But the character was never so ingratiating
that I thought he was beyond being killed off or anything. I thought that was good. That
there were still some stakes there. Because for a second I thought he actually was dead
after the missile explosion. And my mind was like, that would suck. So I think my feelings
in that moment kind of informed my feelings for the character overall. I'm glad he survived
and I'm excited to see where he goes in the next Avengers film. I wish he was dead. I just
hope that they don't splice him with Falcon DNA like they did in the comic books. You know,
they could have done that in this movie where his body was so mangled from the explosion
that they had an infused Falcon DNA in there. He just gets bitten by a radioactive Falcon.
There you go. No, I didn't need this character. I would have much rather seen Falcon have like
a romantic interest type sidekick in the same way that Cap did in the Winter Soldier. Who
is his romantic sidekick? Sharon Carter? Well, there is Sharon Carter and Black Widow. Yeah,
I guess in this movie, Ruth Batsaraf definitely did not fit that bill. Let's talk about her,
AKA Sabra, although they never called her Sabra here, played by Shirah Haas. Really weird casting
choice, in my opinion. For sure. Like, I've never seen Shirah Haas in anything before,
but I was not a fan. Like, I didn't find her believable at all as a former black widow trained
by the Red Room. I'm fairly certain that her 5'2", 100 pound soaking wet ass couldn't take
down a toddler. I'm not entirely sure that wasn't a toddler on the screen. She was so tiny. Dude,
seriously, they got like a fourth grader to be your stunt double. I'm being harsh for sure,
but like, I don't know, I've never been a biggest fan of Sabra from the comic books and I didn't
really like this character in the film. I think it would have been cooler to see someone like
Valerie Cooper in this role because I think she'd get a tie it into the X-Men down the
line or something. Valerie Cooper, who's that? She's like a longstanding governmental liaison
in the comics dealing with superhuman, largely mutant affairs. If I was the filmmakers, I
would have just merged the characters of Sam Wilson's Secret Service agent friend and Sabra
into one character. That would actually make sense. Yeah, the Secret Service friend of his
was named Lila Taylor, and she's a reporter for the Daily Bugle in the books. Also Sam
Wilson's friend. She's like his Lois Lane, kinda. She like breaks stories and gets into trouble
and stuff like that. I thought she did a better job acting than Shira Haas did. I would agree.
Yeah, I think that's a good call to have those two characters merged because then you could
have had like a romantic relationship too as well. There you go. If she was given more screen
time. It writes itself. Let's go ahead and move on to Isaiah Bradley played by Carl Lumbly.
Carl Lumbly is great here. When I was looking up his... Filmography, I didn't know he has
done a lot of DC voice roles including like Marsha Manhunter. Oh, yeah and Silas Stone
I thought his performance was pretty great here. He was super sympathetic You know, especially
when he was telling Sam that he couldn't go back to prison. Oh, yeah I thought Carl gave
probably the most believable performance in this movie and that I felt sorry for him But
I also believed that he could kick all kinds of ass because the guy is massive. He's huge.
Yeah I love the character of Isaiah Bradley and I think Carl Lumpy does a perfect job portraying
him. He was just perfect in the role, absolutely. I was surprised that we didn't see his nephew
Eli in this movie because he was in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier series. And Eli is kind
of a big part of the Young Avengers, which they're currently setting up with Ms. Marvel and Kate
Bishop's Hawkeye. Although I heard that they're going to call that project the Champions instead
of Young Avengers in order to protect the Avengers brand. Like I would have actually loved to
have seen Sam Wilson form the Young Avengers. Why? Because he's a good mentor. I can see
that. And bringing Eli aboard. Yeah. Maybe they'll still go that route. We'll see. That does it
for all the characters I want to discuss, though. So let's go ahead and move into our story highlights.
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Join us as we speculate on the matches and armed with the power of mathematical simulations,
discover who will emerge victorious. Visit dynamicpodcast.com, where we settle the debate and settle the score.
Former General and Defense Secretary Thunderbolt Ross wins his bid for presidential election
and gives a speech about ushering an era of peace together. Five months later, Sam Wilson
as Captain America infiltrates a church in Oaxaca, Mexico where the Serpent Society holds hostages
while awaiting a buyer for their adamantium sample stolen from the Japanese. Serpent's
leader, Sidewinder, escapes while Cap fights Copperhead, and Joaquin Torres recovers the
adamantium as the new Falcon. Wait, Copperhead, that's who he fought? Yeah, that guy was Copperhead.
And another cameo, the leader of the Navy Seals who barges in after that fight against Copperhead.
His name is Dennis Dumphy and that is D-Man from the comic books, the Avenger D-Man, Demolition
Man, as he's also known. Where the stinky guy? Yeah, the stinky guy. Oh, they killed D-Man
in this movie? Yeah, which is a shame. He got his own Lego film recently, which I still have
yet to see. but it really makes me want to go watch that now. You know, I'm not a huge fan
of D-Man, but it is kind of a nice Easter egg. No, I actually love that Easter egg. That was
great casting too. Yeah, he looks just like him, huh? Totally. I think the fight against
Copperhead, as I stated earlier, really served as a great contrast between the type of Captain
America that Sam Wilson is in comparison to Steve Rogers. Yeah, I think Steve Rogers would
have destroyed that guy in like three seconds, but with Sam, he gets stabbed like six times.
We'll say twice. We'll say he gets stabbed twice. He still brought the guy down. And you know
what? If that guy had a jetpack, it would have been over like that. Okay. President Ross visits
his wife's grave and laments losing touch with his daughter Betty, promising to change. Sam
takes Joaquin to Baltimore to train with Isaiah Bradley, a Korean war veteran and test subject
in the government's efforts to recreate the super soldier serum. Isaiah objects to Sam
working with President Ross when he gets invited to a but he accompanies Sam and Joaquin to
the event. At the White House, President Ross asks Sam to reform the Avengers, and during
his speech, he announces a treaty between the US, India, France, and Japan to govern the
mining and worldwide distribution of adamantium, a new element discovered from the emergence
of Tiamat the Celestial, which the world now calls Celestial Island. When the song Mr. Blue
plays, Isaiah suddenly shoots at the president, along with several other secret service guards.
Sam and the Secret Service chase Isaiah down and he denies knowledge of the attack. I thought
it was really cool that they had Sam training with a super soldier and a former Captain America
like Isaiah Bradley. I thought that was perfect. I loved seeing him training with him. Yeah,
it was good foreshadowing to have that like beast of a man try to hit Sam and like missing.
Considering that at the end of the movie Sam would be going up against the Hulk. He was
a lot bigger and stronger But you know there was at least precedent there that they had
established that Sam's really good at dodging. Yeah, he's really agile I really liked the
Easter egg that they had with the mr. Blue song the trigger song. Oh, yeah That was a nice
shout out that I hope fans spotted because mr. Blue was Samuel Stern's alias while he was
corresponding with mr. Green who was Bruce Banner from the Incredible Hulk film Yeah, exactly.
While they were trying to develop a cure for him. I noticed that I thought that was really
cool. Believing that Isaiah was manipulated into attacking the president, Sam approaches
Ross in his presidential bunker, asking to investigate the matter. Believing that Sam lacks objectivity,
Ross tells him to stand down and instead assigns his security advisor, Ruth Batsaraf, to the
case. Sam visits Isaiah in prison, who is convinced he'll now die behind bars. While discussing
the investigation with Joaquin on a call, Sam is attacked by Sidewinder, who reveals the
false buyer calculated where Sam would be. Sam defeats Sidewinder and has him arrested. Did
you think it was weird that they didn't have the line from the trailer when President Ross
tells them you're no Steve Rogers and Sam responds with you're right, I'm not? I can see why they
used it in the marketing and maybe they meant to include it in the film, but I can understand
why they left it out of the movie because it was kind of like President Ross's final word,
you know. If Sam had contended that he's not, then I feel like it would have furthered the
argument discussion when really all that was said needed to be said at that point. It really
made me wonder like what else was cut from this film and how drastically it was changed and
reshoots, because we know that Kevin Feige did have to come in and retool this movie. Yeah,
initially it didn't test well. So they switched some things up. I don't know. I couldn't tell
you how much was cut. The Sidewinder attack when it happened in the street scene. scared
the shit out of me. Like I was not anticipating it. I jumped out of my seat because it was
just so sudden, like a car accident almost. I thought the actor Giancarlo Esposito absolutely
nailed the role, though. Do you know what Sam was pouring on the batteries to make them like
emit that acid cloud? It looked like it was bleach or something like that. I don't know.
All I know is that it looked toxic as hell. And I wouldn't have wanted to breathe any of
that in or fight in that location. I did think it was badass, though, when he put up the smoke
screen. and then threw the dagger into Sidewinder's chest and then drop kick the shit out of him
into the car windshield. Yeah, both of them got stabbed like six times. What is up with
you and getting stabbed six times? Are you trying to tell me something? Yeah, Sam got stabbed
like six times. Overall, through the course of the movie, maybe. Yeah, for sure here. President
Ross learns that the Japanese are backing out of his treaty and that Samuel Stearns, whom
Ross kept imprisoned was behind the assassination attempt. Ruth witnesses Stern use guards at
Isaiah's prison to kill the would-be assassins, except for Isaiah who was put in solitary confinement.
Sam has Joaquin trace a call from Sidewinder's phone to Camp Echo 1, where they investigate
and find Samuel Sterns, who uses mind-controlled prison guards to attack the pair and cover
his escape. In trying to find the words to describe the leader's mind-control technology, I stumbled
upon an article written by the New York Times and another one by IGN that a group of South
Korean scientists discovered that they can use strobing lights to turn on and off brain cells
in the human mind and they use it as a way to treat neurological disorders. But theoretically,
it could also be used in this weird mind control way. Oh, thanks. I am now terrified of YouTube.
Yeah, yeah. New Fear Unlocked. I guess it would explain why you're not a huge fan of this movie,
because you've been mind controlled by too much television. I think that makes sense now. I
can't even deny it. I don't know if that's true. It could be true. President Ross flies to Tokyo
to convince the Japanese prime minister to sign the treaty, but the PM provides evidence that
Ross ordered the theft of Japan's adamantium sample. Sam meets with Navy SEAL Dennis Dumphy
to interrogate Sidewinder and learns that the leader hired the Serpent Society through the
CIA. in an effort to destroy Ross's reputation. Sam and Joaquin shut down Stern's mind control
tech, but not before he gets two US pilots to attack the Japanese fleet in the Indian Ocean
near Celestial Island. Sam and Joaquin rendezvous with President Ross, who orders Sam and Joaquin
to intercept the mind controlled pilots. They manage to subdue them in a dogfight, convincing
the Japanese to stand down, though Joaquin is critically injured. My favorite part of the
dogfight. was when Sam used Red Wing to hold the Captain America shield. So it provided
protection from behind as Sam was being chased by the pilot. I thought that was fucking awesome.
I giggled like a little kid with Glee when I saw that. Yeah, Red Wing just continues to
be one of the coolest characters in the MCU, I would argue, a drone character that you could
like communicate with. That's just awesome. Drones are dope. As much as I love Red Wing
from the comic books. you know, an actual falcon. The adaptation of him as a drone in these movies
is too damn cool to shit on. I even like how they used him in the final battle against the
Hulk as like a ongoing distraction, shooting him with lasers and bullets at the same time.
Yeah, like flashbangs, that was really cool. Yeah, yeah. I want a red wing. So do I. Ross
reveals to Sam that he made a deal with Stearns to have him cure his heart condition in exchange
for a release from prison. but then reneged on the deal out of fear that he would stop
making his heart medication, and that Stearns was seeking revenge for that. Sam questions
himself while visiting Joaquin at the Walter Reed National Medical Center, but is reassured
by Bucky, who's running for Congress, and asserts to Sam that he's upholding Steve's legacy well.
It was kind of wild to me that Bucky was too busy running for Congress to help out his friend.
Well by that point there was nothing to help with in that exact moment. It was kind of like
the situation was resolved at that point. even though the leader was still out there, but
you know, Ross hadn't turned into the Red Hulk yet. And we hadn't had the second climax by
that point. Do you think that felt tacked on then? No, I don't think so. Does Bucky run
for Congress in the comics? No, not to my knowledge. No, he doesn't start a political career or
anything. So this is pretty unique to the movies. You know, it does seem like he eventually goes
back to being a superhero though, as we'll see in the upcoming Thunderbolts movie. So I don't
know if... He's like a superhero congressman, or if he loses his election, or what happens
there. That's kind of weird, I feel like. Yeah, a little bit. We'll see where it goes. Back
in Washington, President Ross gets a phone call from his daughter Betty before going to the
White House lawn for a press conference about the treaty. Stearns visits Sam at the Medical
Center to admonish him for ruining his plans regarding the treaty and is apprehended, but
warns that Ross is still in danger. During the briefing, audio is played over the speakers
of Ross' call with Stearns, implicating him in his dealings with the villain. Enraged,
Ross turns into the Red Hulk and Sam flies in to stop him. Red Hulk destroys much of the
White House before Sam can take the battle first to the Washington Monument and then Hanes Point
at the Cherry Blossom Grove. Though Sam gets his suit destroyed, he uses his counseling
skills to appeal to the Red Hulk's love for his daughter, Betty, represented by the cherry
blossom trees, and Ross reverts to his human form. As much as you hate that moment, I really
liked the line during the fight, when Sam was like, Bucky's line was bullshit. I should have
taken the serum. Yeah, that was the funniest line of the whole movie I thought. What I don't
understand is why when the Red Hulk arrived in the cherry blossom Grove, his D transformation
didn't work then. And Sam was like, dang it, I thought this was gonna work or something
like that. And then all of a sudden, for some reason, it did work just at this random moment.
You're not wrong. Sam did try to appeal to Ross's love for his daughter when he first brought
him into the cherry blossom Grove. It wasn't until after he like detonated all of that kinetic
energy into the Red Hulk that he kind of stunned the creature. And then for some reason, it
worked, I think maybe because he was able to stun the creature and kind of brought him out
of that rage that he was finally able to get through to him, because I don't think Red Hulk
was listening the first time. But he wasn't even stunned. Like he got up and he was still
angry. He was still Red Hulk. I think he was a little bit stunned. Like that's a lot of
kinetic energy that those wings absorbed. Debatable. How is that debatable? That he was stunned.
Oh. I mean, that's what you have to go with. I refuse! Don't be a stubborn asshole. Sam
visits the prison where Isaiah is exonerated and freed, and then visits Ross in the Raft
Prison where it's revealed that though the Adamantium Treaty was ratified, Ross took responsibility
for his actions and resigned as president. His daughter Betty also stops by to visit him.
Sam then visits Joaquin in the hospital where he reassures him that though it can feel like
you have to be perfect as a hero, it's more about doing your best. He invites him to join
the New Avengers. In a post-credit scene, the leader tells Sam that he has calculated that
a war between worlds is coming. Which was super vague, like super safe. I didn't love it. I
especially didn't love the dialogue. See, this is a joke. No joke from you. I would think
would be funny because you. hurt people. I don't know, something stupid like that. I do think
it's good that, you know, how many movies are we into the multiversal saga? And it seems
like outside of Spider-Man and Doctor Strange, no one really on Earth even seems to know about
the multiverse. So as a concept, the multiversal thing seems late to the party. But Leader's
statement was a good way, I think, to get the ball rolling, at least with the new Avengers
team that's going to be formed.
or other people in their universe, like incursions. Other people in other worlds that they would
have to be fighting. So like villains in other universes. Okay. And maybe specifically he
was even talking about Dr. Doom or Kang since we don't know what's happening with that officially
yet. I would have loved a mid credit scene. I think as Devin Davis, one of our executive
producers stated, it was strange to have two of Hulk's big villains in a movie and not have
the Hulk himself show up at least once. That's what I was saying earlier. No one listens to
what you say ever. I'm saying the movie would have been better with the Hulk cameo. And sure,
make it mid credits, that's fine. I think overall the movie was good. I really liked it. I enjoyed
my time in the theater and I think it lived up to my expectations. The film admirably coheres
some of the Marvel's best continuity while delivering on, you know, political thriller elements that
we expect from the Captain America franchise. In all, I'm giving it 4 stars out of 5 and
giving it a fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I disagree. I don't think it's 4 stars. I think
there's problems with the whole continuity considering a lot of people haven't done their homework.
That's not my concern. I think there are problems with the action. I think there were problems
with the villains in the story and the way both of them were defeated. I think there was problems
with the... the acting and the editing and the direction and the budget. I do not think this
is a four star film. I think it's a three star film, maybe three and a half, but definitely
not a four. And yet you gave the Flash four and a half stars. OK, OK. Hey, hey, I'm sorry.
I was young and immature and I changed my ways. I don't think you have. I don't think you have.
But let us know what you guys thought about the movie. AJ9K, help close this out. Thanks
for listening to Dynamic Duel. Visit the show's website at dynamicDuel.com and follow us on
Instagram at dynamicDuelpodcast. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash dynamicDuel
and joining a tier that works for you, or by rating and reviewing Dynamic Duel on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the other shows in
the DynaMic Podcast Network, including Max Destruction, Senjow World and Konsole Kombat.
In our next episode, we are doing a team duel between Darksides elite. So like Calaback and
Granny Goodness and Dasad and Steppenwolf against Thanos's Black Order, which you may recall
from the Infinity War films. Right. Yeah, it's people like Ebony Maw, Corvus Glaive, Proxima
Midnight. It's Thanos's team versus Darksides team. And this was a battle chosen by our executive
producers. And I'm really interested in a rematch between Darkseid and Thanos. If you guys haven't
listened to that Duel episode, definitely check that out before listening to next week's. But
that does it for this episode. We wanna give a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken
Johnson, John Strausky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Miggy Mathagean, Brandon Estregarden,
Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Austin Wieselowski, AJ Dunkerley, Nick Ibbonto, Scott Camacho,
Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Dean Molesky, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Leiner, Mike Williams,
and Oscar Galvez for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week.
Up up and away, true believers.