This is a DynaMic Network podcast.
Hi and welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films
and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based
battle simulations. I'm Marvelous Joe. And I'm his twin brother Johnny DC. And we got a special
episode for you guys. This is our 425th episode. And as long time listeners know, every 25 episodes,
we're coming at you guys with a team duel. And this episode is going to be... Revenge match
kind of like a grudge match between Thanos and Darkseid except they're bringing their posses
with them it's gonna be Darkseids elite versus the black order and Revenge is gonna be so
sweet from our original Duel episode of dark side versus Thanos Just laying that out there
right now. Yeah, if any episode deserved a sequel It would have to be Darkseid versus Thanos
because that has to be one of the most epic pairings between Marvel and DC characters ever
Yeah Right, and this matchup is going to be equally as epic. Can't wait to see who wins
between Darkseid's elite, which is basically, you know, his main generals on the planet Apocalypse
versus the Black Order, who non-comic book readers will definitely recognize from the Infinity
War and endgame films. They're like Thanos' generals. Before that matchup, we're going
to break down the latest comic book movie news to come out this past week, of which we have
two news items. We got news that James Watkins is going to direct the Clayface film that's
in development. and we got the official trailer for Batman Ninja vs Yakuza League. As always
we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if
you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent Duel simulator
AJ9K has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why hello there, do you want
even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the dynamic Duel community on Patreon, where
you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic two-oh tier gives you access to our Discord
chat server. The fantastic four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force
tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly. The Diner Mike podcast network
tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe
will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation
results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com. Check it
out at patreon.com slash dynamicduel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone
who supports the podcast. Guys be sure to tune into the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast
Network this week including Max Destruction which pits your favorite action heroes from
film and television against each other. This Wednesday, hosts Scotty and Gilly are finding
out who would win in a fight between the MCU's Captain America Steve Rogers and the DCEU's
Batman aka Batfleck. Which is a matchup I've always wanted to see from Max Destruction.
Yeah, it's nice that since we focus on the comic book characters for our duels that they can
focus on the movie characters. I'm really interested in that fight too. On the Senjoh World podcast,
host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga characters. This
Thursday, Zach is putting out an epic 10 versus 10 matchup of Team Naruto, AKA the Akatsuki
versus Team Bleach, AKA the Espada. That'll be a big one. Anime fans definitely check that
out. On the Konsole Kombat podcast, hosts John and Dean simulate battles between popular video
game characters. In yesterday's episode, they found out who would win between Commander Shepard,
female Commander Shepard from Mass Effect and Catherine B320 from Halo. Visit dynamicpodcasts.com
or click the link in our show notes to listen to all of the shows in the DynaMic Podcast
Network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award Marvel
used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital award we post on
Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last
week we asked you guys, what's your favorite Captain America solo film and why? And we incorporated
all of the Captain America movies, not just from the MCU franchise, but also through history.
We got three answers, so let's go ahead and run down the two honorable mentions and the
no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Lee Tapscott, who said, Hi, this is
Lee. My favorite Captain America project was Captain America. Seventy five heroic years.
This aired back in 2016 on ABC right before the premiere of Agent Carter. This is a documentary
movie on the history of Captain America, both in comics and films, and examine the influence
of this character in America culture throughout the years. with tons of interviews and snippets
from movies and comics. Oops, it looks like he got kind of cut off at the end there, but
I remember when this documentary came out. It's not like a solo film per se, but it was really
cool to see comic book and movie creators comment on the influence of Captain America back when
he first debuted around World War II. There have been quite a few solid comic book documentaries
made over the years. I remember the History Channel put out an amazing one back in the
early 2000s. Oh yeah, wasn't it like comic book superheroes unmasked? Yeah, I would highly
recommend that documentary to anyone who's like getting into comics. There was also a really
great documentary on the Unbreakable special features for that movie Unbreakable, since
you know that movie deals with comic books and superheroes. Oh yeah, great interviews with
comic book creators like Dave Gibbons and Frank Miller, if I remember correctly. Yeah. DC has
had one TV special documentary-esque type project that they put out. I think it was right around
the time of Batman v Superman and that was hosted by Kevin Smith. It was called Dawn of Justice
League if I remember correctly. And no one cares about that one. Oh, I'm sorry. Moving on to
our next honorable mention. This next answer was given by Travis Herndon, who said, What's
up, dynamic dudes? Travis here. Shout out to my evil twin. So my answer had to be Falcon
and Winter Soldier. Seeing Bucky and Sam having this buddy cop dynamic was cool. While yeah,
the villains were a big lackluster, getting introduced to the tragic character of Isaiah
Bradley was powerful, as well as getting introduced to everybody's favorite party city cat, John
Walker. So yeah, Falcon and the Winter Soldier is my favorite series. Yeah, the Falcon and
the Winter Soldier was a great television show. It had phenomenal action, especially that Tunisia
flight scene from the first episode and the dynamic between. The Falcon and the Winter
Soldier is really enjoyable. In fact, it's probably one of the things missing from the recent Brave
New World movie. Yeah, Bucky's cameo in that left a lot to be desired. But yeah, I would
say Falcon and the Winter Soldier is definitely one of Marvel's best television series that
they put out. I love what they did with Baron Zemo. Didn't love Power Broker, but I loved
US Agent and pretty much everything else. I didn't love Flag Smasher either. Oh yeah, that
was dumb. Great answer, Travis Herndon, but the winner of this week's No Prize is... Matt
from Texas who said, Hey guys, it's Matt from Texas. Uh, I would say my favorite Captain
America movie is probably going to be Captain America, the first Avenger is the quintessential
Captain America movie. It's where he gets his start shows who he truly is. And it's world
war II. I love world war II. I study it as a history major. Um, but yeah, that's it. Peace
out. Yeah, a lot of people love Captain America, the first Avenger. It's not personally my favorite
Captain America film, but I could see where a lot of people are coming from when they cite
it as their favorite, because it's probably the most unique film out of the Captain America
MCU franchise. Right. Usually the franchise tends to go down the political thriller route.
But Captain America took a very pulpy approach to World War Two. in the vein of films like
Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Rocketeer. In fact, the guy who directed The First Avenger
also directed The Rocketeer. So there was something very charming about the film and it just had
a lot of heart. Yeah, in my opinion, Captain America, The First Avenger is the way Captain
America movies should be done. These wartime films where Captain America gets to punch Nazis,
seeing him go up against the Red Skull is so iconic. For sure, yeah. So great answer, Matt.
You win this week's snow prize. If you the listener want a shot at winning your own no prize, go
ahead and stay tuned to later on this episode when we'll be asking another question of the
week. And now that that's done, on to the news!
Alright, a few months ago DC Studios announced that it would be releasing a clay face solo
film produced by Matt Reeves who is the director of The Batman. We weren't sure if this movie
was going to take place in the DCU or the Elseworlds universe in which The Batman takes place. We've
since learned that it's going to be a DCU film directed by James Watkins who has directed
other including Speak No Evil, The Woman in Black, and The Descent Part 2. None of which
I have seen. Not a big horror guy. I haven't seen any of those either, but Speak No Evil
with James McAvoy did look pretty solid. I gotta check that out. Yeah, that film did pretty
well critically too, as have several other of his projects. Now, the Clayface film is said
to only have a budget of about $40 million, which is nothing. They're definitely selling
this as a low budget horror project, which, you know, is not terrible. There have been
a lot of great low budget horror films to have come out recently that have gotten a lot of
acclaim. So there is promise here. Oh, yeah, I'm super excited by this. It was interesting
that we got a look at the DCU version of Clayface in the recent Creature Commandos animated series.
As those of you have watched the show will know, Clayface didn't really meet a timely end to
there. but you know, it's really hard to kill Clayface, so I'm certain that he'll be coming
back, but also, this film doesn't have to follow that series, it could be a prequel. Yeah, honestly,
I hope it is. I hope it starts off something closer to the Clayface that we got in the Batman
Caped Crusader animated series just last year. Start there and then move into the Creature
Commandos version of Clayface. I think that's the best way to go. I would agree with that,
yeah. As we've talked about earlier, Clayface is being written by Mike Flanagan who has also
written horror films like Doctor Sleep, The Haunting, The Fall of the House of Usher, and
The Haunting of Hill House, to name a few. The film is set to be released on September 11th
of 2026, so look forward to it then. But speaking of the reveal that James Watkins is set to
direct this film, that brings us to our question of the week.
What horror director would you like to see direct a film for one of Batman's villains? And which
villain? So we're looking for you guys to pair your favorite horror director with your favorite
Batman villain. A lot of options to choose from. We're really interested in hearing what you
guys have to say. Record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in
the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail.
Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case
we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic
duel no prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before March 1st. Also in
DC news this past week we got the official trailer for Batman Ninja vs Yakuza League and it looks
so damn epic and bonkers in the best way possible just like the first animated film was. I loved
that movie. I almost gave that movie 5 stars. I still enjoy watching that movie and this
trailer has me really pumped to see the sequel, which looks like it picks up right after the
first one ends. Yeah, I really like how the first Batman Ninja movie really delved into
like medieval history of Japan, right? It took place in a very historical context and now
the sequel takes place in a very modern context. We get to see modern Japan with these Yakuza
gangs going up against each other and I guess Japan was positioned directly over Gotham City
in this world. Right, because Japan is missing on the map. Something they did in the past
in the first movie has altered the present. And it looks like the premise of the film is
that Batman and his team have to go through the Justice League in order to reset reality.
Fantastic premise. I love seeing all the different Justice League characters and their designs.
Everything from Jessica Cruz to Aquaman to Flash and Wonder Woman. look amazing. We haven't
seen Superman yet, though I suspect we will. Maybe he'll be like the big boss at the end.
Yeah, the Shogun. Right, yeah. Russell Gould was really cool to see. I'm sure he's involved
in what's going on in some way. I always love him as a Batman villain, but we also get to
see other Batman villains like the Joker pop up as well. This film is going to be so packed,
like with other characters like Robin and Nightwing and Red Hood, and I'm totally here for it.
Yeah, it looks like a lot of fun. The shot where the Japanese Yakuza assassins were being fired
out of this giant like Gatling gun onto Gotham City. Right. It was just so wacky. It's like
nothing that we've ever seen before, right? Yeah, the line by Commissioner Gordon though
was weird where he was like, yeah, it's raining men. I was like, is that a reference to the
song, It's Raining Men? I don't think so. I do have to say though, this trailer definitely
has turned me off to the dubbed version of this movie. The way they released this trailer,
was they showed you the dubbed version and then right after that it was the subtitled version.
Just like with the first film, I imagine I'm absolutely going to prefer the subtitled version
of this film just based on this trailer. Yeah, the subbed version is the only version I've
seen of the original Batman Ninja movie. The film is coming out pretty soon here, March
18th on digital and April 15th for the physical versions. If you're a fan of the first I can't
wait to watch it and I can't wait to review it when it's released.
I think that does it for all the news for this episode so let's go ahead and move into our
main event Where we find out who would win in a fight between darksight's team of generals
the elite and Thanos's team of generals the black order
All right, Darksides Elite versus The Black Order. It's about to go down. I'm really excited
for this matchup. Oh yeah, I think this idea was given by our executive producer, Devin
Davis, who comes up with fantastic ideas. And once I heard this one, I was like, oh, hell
yeah. Yeah, I'm a big fan of The Black Order. I think they were the coolest thing to come
out of Jonathan Hickman's Infinity. And I thought they were adapted really well in Avengers Infinity
War and Avengers Endgame. And... Even in video games, there's the Marvel Ultimate Alliance
3 video game in which they're the primary antagonists and it's a whole lot of fun. So I have a real
soft spot in my heart for this team. I think largely because they're just so brutal and
the character designs are so well done. Yeah. And not only did we get to see members of Darkseid's
elite in Zack Snyder's Justice League, but if you grew up watching any form of DC animation,
you're pretty familiar with characters like Granny Goodness and Da'sad and Steppenwolf.
the latter of whom was actually the main antagonist for the Justice League film. In addition to
just like really liking the characters, the primary reason I was pumped to do this episode
is because Marvel needs payback for what happened back in 2018 when Thanos lost to Darkseid in
that duel episode. Spoiler alert! I've never forgotten that and today's the day I make the
world right again. We'll see. I'm actually really curious to see how this match is gonna go and
who's gonna win. It's exciting. But to explain the methodology behind our duels, let's go
to our sentient Duel simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ and IK tell our listeners how you
go about determining a winner in our Duel matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a
winner between the two teams is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations between every character
on each team using their statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used
to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along
a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle.
The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid, from which the DC characters'
statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage
potential, versatility, and perception, in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation.
The results of the 49,000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character on
both teams. The team with the higher average win rate is declared the victor as they have
a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither team should
win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman
to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents
that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity
or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination
of the winner. Thanks, AgenonK! Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down
each team's rosters and histories before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the many
simulations would play out beat for beat. And I believe it's my turn to go first with the
Marvel backstory, so let me go ahead and tell you guys all about the Black Order. Thanos'
Black Order is an elite strike force assembled to enforce his will and conquer planets in
his name. Composed of some of the most ruthless and powerful warriors in the universe, The
origins of the Black Order trace back to Thanos' need for a force capable of executing his will
with absolute efficiency. As detailed in his backstory in the duel episode against Darkseid,
Thanos had long commanded vast armies of marauders and warlords, but recognized that brute force
alone would not always guarantee victory. He needed specialists, warriors who could execute
missions with a level of cruelty beyond that of common soldiers. Unlike the armies of the
Chitauri and the Outriders that Thanos deployed en masse, the Black Order functioned as a special
unit who could not only fight but also manipulate, infiltrate, and dominate entire civilizations.
Corvus Glaive was the first member to rise to the challenge. A brilliant strategist and one
of the most vicious warriors in the cosmos, Corvus was granted his namesake weapon by Thanos.
The glaive was sharp enough to split atoms and cut through any substance, including the skin
of immensely powerful beings like the Hulk and Hyperion. More than just a tool of destruction,
the glaive gave Corvus practical immortality. So long as the blade remained intact, he could
not die. His loyalty to Thanos was absolute, and he proved to be the Mad Titan's most trusted
general, leading Thanos' armies in battle. Corvus Glaive's wife, Proxima Midnight, was the deadliest
Black Order. Her mastery of hand-to-hand combat was unparalleled, and her superhuman strength,
speed, and durability made her a match for even the most powerful warriors. Her primary weapon
was a spear forged from a collapsed star, capable of wielding all the equivalent mass and energy.
It functions as a homing projectile when thrown, can fire energy blasts, and can immobilize
opponents with a black energy net. The lethal toxin in its tip could
in existence. Proxima thrived in battle, eager to prove herself superior to any enemy who
dared oppose her. While Glaive and Midnight were instruments of raw power, Ebony Maw was
something else entirely. He was a manipulator, a whisperer capable of unraveling even the
strongest minds. His voice was his greatest weapon, enabling him to override the will of
others and turn them into pawns. In addition to Ebony's persuasive abilities, he possessed
telekinesis, teleportation, and and could conjure fireballs with his hands, further solidifying
his position as one of Thanos' most insidious agents. Black Dwarf, the team's brute force,
possessed unparalleled strength and durability. His unbreakable skin allowed him to withstand
the attacks of some of the most powerful beings in the universe. His preferred weapons were
massive bladed and blunt instruments which he wielded with devastating force, most commonly
a giant double-bladed axe.
was a telepathic parasite capable of mind control and mental consumption. Unlike Ebony Maw, who
manipulated minds through persuasion, Supergiant forcibly dominated her victims, feeding on
their intellect. She could seize mental control of entire armies, turning them against their
allies. The Black Order's first major recorded mission was against Ego the Living Planet,
whom Thanos viewed as an offense to death, and whom you can learn more about in his duel against
the
in battle, but the confrontation ended in a stalemate. The Black Order's most infamous
campaign came during Thanos' attack on Earth. With the Avengers occupied in deep space, Thanos
launched a full-scale invasion, using his elite warriors to target strategic locations. His
stated demand was a tribute, that each ruler of Earth was to offer the heads of all younglings
between the ages of 16 and 22. In reality, this was a cover for his true goal, finding his
lost son, Thane. order was assigned to region of Earth to subjugate. Corvus Glaive and Supergiant
attacked the X Mansion seeking information on Thane's location. Proxima Midnight was sent
to Atlantis where she confronted Namor the Sub-Mariner. Black Dwarf was assigned to Wakanda where he
encountered the greatest resistance from forces led by the Black Panther, who repelled his
invasion and forced Black Dwarf to retreat in disgrace. For this failure, Thanos expelled
him from the Black Order. Ebony Maw took a more insidious approach. He infiltrated Doctor Strange's
mind, taking control of the Sorcerer Supreme and using him as an agent to uncover Thane's
whereabouts. Eventually Ebony Maw located Thane as a young man in the hidden inhuman town in
Greenland. There he discovered that Thane had not yet undergone pterigenesis, which is an
evolutionary process that you can learn more about in our Shazam versus Black Bolt duel
episode. When Black Bolt detonated a pterigen bomb over Earth, Thane's transformation was
triggered, awakening his devastating abilities. His left hand became a weapon of instant death,
while his right hand could encase victims in a solid amber-like construct that left them
in suspended animation. In an instant, he inadvertently wiped out his entire town. Ebony Maw arrived,
offering Thane a containment suit to control his abilities, but the offer was a deception.
Maw encased Thane in a force field and alerted Thanos to his location. However, when Thanos
arrived to kill his son, Ebony Maw chose to test Thane's potential. He freed him, giving
him a choice, flee or embrace his heritage. Thane chose the latter using his newfound power.
midnight in amber, leaving them in a state of living death. With Thanos defeated, the Black
Order fractured. Corvus Glaive remained with his master while the others scattered, but
their time apart was brief. The cosmic being known as the Challenger reunited the Black
Order, using them in a grand contest against the Grandmaster's Lethal Legion. During the
first round of the contest, the Black Order fought the Lethal Legion for control of Pyramoids,
which were powerful cosmic artifacts placed around the earth. Black Dwarf to secure the
first Pyramoid in Rome. In the second round, the Black Order moved to Antarctica, again
clashing with the Avengers, who forced them to retreat and ultimately brought the contest
to an end. Following the contest, the Black Order regrouped to the planet Angargel, where
they were tasked by an alien resistance with dismantling the alien galactic empire. The
Black Order only accepted as a means to seize the bow of Gabriel, which was a weapon capable
of planetary destruction. Ebony Maw manipulated the Emperor into lowering the planet's defenses,
allowing the Black Order to take the weapon. Corvus Glaive then activated the bow, transforming
Sinar's inhabitants into monsters that destroyed the planet and dismantled their galactic empire.
However, when their task was complete, the Grandmaster arrived and seized the weapon from them. Later,
the Black Order served Hela, the Goddess of Death, who sought to retrieve and resurrect
Thanos. Together, they attacked Starfox and the Guardians of the Galaxy to retrieve the
body and bring bringing the Mad Titan back to life on planet Nowhere. Though they were successful
in restoring their leader, Thanos, Hela, and the Black Order were scattered after being
sucked into a black hole that destroyed the planet. You can learn more about the Guardians
of the Galaxy in their Team Duel episode against the Doom Patrol. Most recently, the Black Order
was tasked by the Intergalactic Council, led by Thanos and assigned with addressing matters
of universal importance to assist the Imperial Guard in stopping the threat of the Phoenix
Force. entity in our Raven versus Phoenix duel episode and that's the Black Order's history.
For this team duel the seven-member roster was mostly easy to come by. Of course it will be
led by Thanos the Mad Titan with his immense strength and durability, cosmic energies, matter
manipulation, vast intelligence, and incalculable evil. The original members are also on the
roster, including Corvus Glaive with his Adam-splitting blade, enhanced physicals, and strategic mind.
Next is Proxima Midnight, wielder of her star-powered spear, enhanced physicals, and combat mastery.
Also on the team is Ebony Maw with his persuasive voice, telekinesis, fireball generation, and
genius intellect. Then we have Black Dwarf, who I'm gonna call Cull Obsidian for this match.
I'm taking a cue from the movies and the video games and acknowledge that the name Black Dwarf
is a horrible name for a brutish alien warrior. And I already know that one of the nicknames
for the Black Order itself in the comics was the Kull Obsidian, so it can get confusing,
but for this match, Black Dwarf shall henceforth be known as Kull Obsidian. He wields a giant
double-bladed axe, has vast strength and durability with unbreakable skin. Rounding out the original
team is Supergiant, who never made an appearance in the MCU, but she's the team resident telepath
who can mentally possess entire legions and psychically devour their minds. For the seventh
and final member of the team, I was thinking of going with Black Swan, who was a recurring
member of the Black Order, but I found her power set to be too vague, with like, some energy
manipulation, some telepathy, some strength. Instead I decided to go with Thanos' son himself,
Thane. who has never actually been a member of the Black Order in the comics, but he has
been heavily involved with them, and he aligned himself with Ebony Maw in the books, and he
allied with the whole team in the video game Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, wherein Thane is
actually the final villain. Plus his power set of having essentially an Omega effect touch
with one arm, and an Amber Energy construct generation effect with the other arm is pretty
cool. So that's my team. Thanos, Corvus Glaive, Proxima Midnight. Ebony Maw, Cull Obsidian,
Supergiant, and Thane. Yeah, Cull Obsidian is a way better name than Black Dwarf. I do have
to say though, Supergiant is super confusing considering what the character looks like.
I was thrown for a loop with that one. Yeah, I mean, she's not a giant, right? She's a telepath,
a psychic vampire. Real weird. DC doesn't have that problem. I'm pretty sure that some of
the names of Darkseid's elite are pretty stupid too, like Granny Goodness. Hell yeah. The fuck
is that? Terrifying is what it is. Nothing more sinister than grandma's goodies. Wait, what?
What the fuck did you just say? Well, let's erase that from our minds by moving on to the
backstory of Darkseid's elite, whose history is closely tied to Darkseid himself. Actually
had a really hard time trying to separate the history of the team from its leader. It was
not possible. So there's a lot of reach right here. Just bear with me. Now Apocalypse, a
desolate world of fire and suffering, was forged from the remnants of a dead pantheon. When
the Old Gods waged war in a catastrophic conflict known as Ragnarok, their homeworld was torn
asunder, and from its ruins emerged two new planets. New Genesis, a utopian paradise under
the guidance of Highfather, and Apocalypse, a burning wasteland where only the ruthless
had survived. For centuries, Apocalypse was ruled by Deathspots, who sought nothing but
war and suffering, but none were as cruel or ambitious as Darkseid, who seized power through
betrayal, orchestrating the deaths of his own mother, Queen Hegra, and his pacifist brother
Drax. As the new god of tyranny, Darkseid reshaped Apocalypse into a world of oppression and forced
obedience, powered by its fire pits which fed on the very essence of its suffering To enforce
his iron rule, Darkseid assembled his elite, a collection of generals, assassins, torturers,
and warlords, whose authority was second only to his own. Together, Darkseid's elite carried
out their master's will across the cosmos, ensuring that no world defied him and the apocalypse
remained the ultimate monument to his dominion. As Darkseid consolidated his rule over apocalypse,
he turned his attention toward universal domination. provoking war with New Genesis and other worlds.
His uncle, Steppenwolf, led the first major assault, hunting the new gods of New Genesis
for sport and killing Avia, the wife of High Father Izaya. This act ignited a long and brutal
war between the two planets with Darkseid's forces locked in an eternal struggle against
their celestial counterparts. When the seemingly endless war between Apocalypse and New Genesis
raged toward an unavoidable stalemate, Darkseid and Highfather struck a temporary truce known
as the Pact, exchanging their newborn sons. Orion was sent to New Genesis, while Scott
Free, aka Mr. Miracle, was raised in Granny Goodness's orphanage. You can learn more about
Orion and Mr. Miracle in their respective duels against the Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock.
Darkseid's truce did little to halt his ambitions, however, and when Scott Free eventually escaped
Apocalypse and fled to Earth, as both a battleground and a testing ground for his greater plans,
as he believed Earth held fragments of the anti-life equation within the minds of his people. His
forces, led by Glorious Godfrey, infiltrated human society, using the media and mass manipulation
to turn the population against their own protectors. Godfrey's words nearly succeeded in suing the
people of Earth, but he was ultimately defeated by Earth's heroes. At the same time, Darkseid's
scientists, including Desaad and Dr. Bedlam, experimented with new methods of psychological
warfare. Bedlam introduced the Paranoid Pill, a substance capable of inducing mass hysteria,
while Desaad's torturous experiments produced technological monstrosities to enforce Darkseid's
rule. Granny Goodness, the overseer of Apocalypse's orphanages, trained warriors to serve in Darkseid's
armies, conditioning them into mindless soldiers devoted to his cause. Over the years, Darkseid
clashed with Earth's heroes, particularly Superman, whose power made him one of the few beings
capable of challenging his tyranny and might. Timing again, Darkseid's elite led invasions
of Earth, attempting to bring the planet under apocalyptic rule. Darkseid's armies of parademons,
commanded by Steppenwolf and Darkseid's son, Kelebek, descended upon Earth only to be repelled
by the combined might of the Justice League. which you can learn more about in the team
duel Justice League vs Avengers. Darkseid's obsession with the Anti-Life Equation remained
his driving goal, leading to numerous conflicts with Earth's greatest minds and heroes. He
sought to uncover its secrets through direct assaults, cosmic manipulations, and alliances
with other dark forces. Apocalypse was briefly abandoned when Darkseid and his people were
slain by an unknown force, the Infinity Man acting on behalf of the Source. The New God
Spirits fell to Earth where they were reborn in mortal bodies. Darkseid took on the identity
of Boss Darkseid, spreading corruption from the shadows while plotting the resurrection
of his true form, which he eventually obtained along with the completed anti-life equation.
As every living being within the universe became transformed into Darkseid's mindless slaves,
reality itself began falling apart. a Radion bullet before seemingly dying himself to Darkseid's
Omega-sanctioned power. When a Flashpoint event reset DC's continuity, Darkseid and his elite
returned, though Darkseid's new war was not against New Genesis nor against Earth, which
he had already failed to conquer, but against a rival god, the Anti-Monitor, an embodiment
of antimatter and destruction. The Anti-Monitor, once the greatest threat to the multiverse,
had been transformed by the corrupted Amazon named Grail, Darkseid's own secret daughter.
The battle between Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor played out across multiple worlds, culminating
in a direct confrontation on Earth. Darkseid, wielding his Omega Effect, attempted to destroy
his rival, but the Anti-Monitor had evolved, now wielding the Anti-Life Equation itself.
At the height of battle, the Anti-Monitor turned the Anti-Life Equation upon Darkseid Unmaking
Kim completely. With Darkseid's death, Apocalypse fell into chaos. Calleback, Steppenwolf, and
Grail all fought for control, but the most shocking development came when Grail resurrected Darkseid,
not as a god, but as an infant. For a time, Apocalypse had no true ruler, as Grail raised
the child Darkseid, sacrificing old gods to feed his power. Over time, Darkseid grew into
an adult once more. eventually killing Zeus himself to reclaim his godhood. But Darkseid
was no longer content with mere conquest. He sought to harness the Great Darkness, the primordial
force from before creation. However, Darkseid soon discovered that he was not its master,
he was its pawn. The Great Darkness consumed him, turning Darkseid and his elite into servants
of an even greater force. Now, under the control of the Darkness itself, Darkseid led a final
invasion of Earth, seeking to eliminate its heroes once and for all. Though he was eventually
freed from the darkness' control, Darkseid disappeared into its void, leaving Apocalypse once again
without its ruler. With Darkseid gone, Apocalypse remained a world on the edge of collapse, its
elite vying for power, waiting for the inevitable return of their god. For Darkseid is. I've
selected the most prominent figures within Darkseid's elite, each of whom play a critical role in
Darkseid's Universal Conquest. Of course there's Darkseid himself, ruler of Apocalypse, but
also his right-hand man Desaad, Darkseid's chief torturer and scientist responsible for developing
advanced weaponry and psychological warfare. I'm also including Granny Goodness, the ruthless
commander of Apocalypse's orphanages, and Darkseid's personal guard, the Female Furies. Also, Darkseid's
uncle Steppenwolf, Apocalypse's seasoned general and tactician, and Kanto, the planet's master
assassin. Darkseid's brutish, firstborn son, Calleback, will bring added brawn to this fight,
while Dr. Bedlam brings added brains as a psionic entity. So to recap, it's Darkseid, Desaad,
Granny Goodness, Steppenwolf, Kanto, Calleback, and Dr. Bedlam on this team. I like that team.
That's a pretty good team. I think there's good analogs between them and the Black Order, especially
when you pair Supergiant with Dr. Bedlam. And I think you could pair Thane with Kanto. And
Kalebak with Cull Obsidian, and especially Desaad vs Ebony Maw. I think that's the pairing that
works the best. There's also Steppenwolf against Corvus Glaive and Proxima Midnight with Granny
Goodness. It's fate. It's fate how good these pairings match up.
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Now that we got their histories and rosters out of the way, let's speculate on how one
of the many simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not our speculation,
but it's fun to imagine how this team duel could play out. AJ9K, what are the rules of our speculation?
Well, I should say there are no rules other than the teams have no prior knowledge of the
other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out is that the other side is a
threat that needs to be eliminated. For the speculation, Groups will begin approximately
50 meters apart in a nondescript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself,
as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The teams must earn victory
on their own merit. All right, then let's get into it. Darkseid's elite and the Black Order
meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I'm gonna say Darkseid starts off with his Omega
Beams, of course. What? So right away. Two red energy beams shoot out from his eyes, zigzagging
across the arena and passing through each member of the Black Order, just disintegrating them.
Match over! You cheating ass bastard. What happened to escalation during these speculations, right?
I'm gonna say that the Omega beams approach Corvus Glaive first, and he's gonna defend
himself with his glaive, which is sharp enough, as I said, to cut through anything, even atoms.
And yeah, they could even cut through energy like these Omega beams. What the blade is going
to cut through Darkseid's beams and split them. And they go off course and miss their mark.
Dude, the Omega beams do not miss. But even if the Omega beams can be cut by Corvus's blade,
someone still dies because one of the split beams is just going to make a return zigzag
trip and blast. I don't know, the psychic chick super giant. So she's out of the man. The Omega
beams suck, okay? They're a cheap ass attack. Thanos is not gonna have any part of that shit
So he raises his fist and each member of Darksides Elite are gonna raise into the air with this
blue Energy aura around them due to Thanos's telekinesis, right? He's lifting him telekinetically
and then Thanos is gonna slam Darksides Elite down with a force. That's so hard It's gonna
crack the planet that they're on. So now they're all fighting in like this Grand Canyon. Okay
I mean, Thanos lifts and slams everyone he can see, which is not Kanto, who happens to be
Darkseid's expert assassin and a master of stealth. So despite the planet cracking, Kanto delivers
this surprise attack with his apocalyptic sword and slashes Thanos fist right off. And he follows
up with a series of rapid slashes right across Thanos chest. Oh, shit. He fucked up there
because Cull Obsidian. is not cool with his boss's hands just getting chopped off, okay?
So he leaps over to Kanto, and with a mighty swing of his giant battle axe, he chops off
Kanto's head with just one whack, and that thing goes flying. Kanto's out of the match now,
and Thanos, you know, he'll be fine. He's gonna heal those chest slashes real quick. Okay,
well, meanwhile, Dr. Bedlam, who's this, you know, invisible, psychic energy being, is currently
controlling six different androids. known as Animants, and they're all curb-stopping Thane
right now, just pummeling him to death. No, no, no. Because Proxima Midnight sees Thane
being attacked, and before the androids can kill Thane, she hurls her sun-powered spear
toward them, and as the spear flies, it's gonna emanate the solar flare energy that arcs out
and strikes the entire android group, just frying their circuits. And then the spear's gonna
lodge into the real Dr. Bedlam. impaling him into the canyon wall that they're in and taking
him out of this match. Well there is no like real Dr. Bedlam, he just imparts his form on
one anime specifically, but sure we'll say that was the one that got impaled. But yeah now
Proxima Mindaig is without her weapon right so Granny Goodness is gonna take advantage
of her disarmament and blast a hole right through her torso with a beam from her apocalyptic
staff so Proxima's out. Okay. Oh, suddenly Granny Goodness gets her whole head bashed in by Calaback,
Darkseid's son himself, and her own teammate. What? Because as the battle was going on, Ebony
Ma weaseled his way over to Calaback and whispered into his ear, reminding him how much he hates
that old bag and convinced him to play Whack-a-Mole with her head. So Granny Goodness is now out
of the match. You know, I actually believe that he probably does hate her. Everyone hates her.
But also that's elder abuse, by the way. Now, while that's going on, Steppenwolf, you know,
he noticed Kull Obsidian with his axe. And so Steppenwolf is going to attack him with his
own powerful electro axe, starting by slamming it into the ground near Kull, which is going
to cause the shockwave that knocks him into the air. And Steppenwolf is going to follow
up by hurling his axe like quick as lightning right at Kull, just slicing him into midair.
How sharp is Steppenwolf's axe? Cause Kull is like really durable. It can literally cut through
any material. But can it cut through atoms? Sure, why the fuck not? You are a liar, sir.
Okay, but anyway, guess what? Super giant, she's still on the battlefield. She's such a powerful
omnipath that even if her body's destroyed, she survives as a psionic spirit. So the only
thing Dark Sight's Omega Beam did to her was make her intangible. So like as this psionic
entity, she's gonna read the mind of Darkseid, and therefore she learns the secret to the
Omega effect, and she's gonna feed that information to Thanos, who's all healed up by this point,
and Thanos is gonna augment his own cosmic powers to mimic the energy wavelength of Darkseid's
Omega Beams. So then, Thanos, straight up Omega Beams, Steppenwolf, the fuck outta here. What
the heck? That's right. Okay, well. Dr. Bedlam has been floating around as a disembodied energy
bank too, just like Supergiant. And since Desaad was able to repair one of his android bodies
during this battle, Bedlam is going to be able to take control of that again, fully aware
of what Supergiant did. So he's going to unleash one of his paranoid pills on Thanos. And his
fumes cause Thanos to not only blast Corvus Glaive into oblivion, but also the stress causes
Thanos to forget how to use the Omega effect. Well that's convenient. If Dr. Bedlam is aware
of Supergiant, she's going to be aware of him, and she's a psychic parasite, so she's going
to latch onto him and devour his mind. So now Dr. Bedlam is officially gone from this match
now. Oh, well, Supergiant, you know, she seems to know so much, she'll probably go for Darkseid's
mind next, right? Since- He's the leader. Sure. Except surprise, she's going to get tricked
by Dessahd's psychic manipulations into going for his own mind, since he cast a mental illusion
to disguise himself as Darkseid. And that's something he does all the time in the comics.
So Supergiant, instead of psychically attacking Darkseid, she's going to get sucked into a
psychic torture device that Dessahd engineered. And so her psionic form is going to get absorbed.
and converted into energy that Dasad weaponizes against Ebony Maw. He's going to use that device
to blast him with beams of energy. Wait, okay. You lost me. So Dasad made a device that can
somehow torture minds, but also convert them into energy and then also blast them out as
a weapon. Yes. That's pretty convenient, don't you think? Oh, I'm sorry. Your feeble mind
can't comprehend fourth world technology. stupid. Ebony Maw is just going to teleport out of
the way of Dessod's blast and then he's going to counter with a volley of fireballs. Okay,
except without realizing it, Ebony Maw teleported in front of Kelebek, who, you know, remembers
how Ebony manipulated him earlier and Kelebek is going to straight up slam his club straight
down onto Ebony from behind like a hammer to a nail, just creating this Ebony smear on the
ground beneath him. Alright, uh, well meanwhile Thane approaches Desaud and he's gonna snatch
him with his right hand which puts Desaud into this amber energy construct which basically
traps him forever in a state of living death and now the only mind that Desaud can torture
is his own for all eternity. And then Thane approaches Kelebak and grabs him with his left
hand which just instantly kills Kelebak. So these guys got the old one-two combo here from
Thane, you know, death. for Kalebeck and a fate worse than death for Dasan. Okay, well speaking
of living death, Thane is going to suddenly be zapped by Darkseid's Omega Beams, which
zigzagged their way behind him and delivered Darkseid's Omega Sanction. So now Thane is
trapped in an eternal and torturous cycle of pain, death, and rebirth across alternate realities.
That's what the Omega Sanction does? Yeah. Well... So it's just Thanos and Darkseid exactly how
I wanted. Oh, me too pal, me too. Revenge is gonna be so sweet because the paranoid pill
that Bedlam used on Thanos that wears off by this point and he remembers how to use this
omega sanction himself. So the turntables have turned and Thanos puts Darkseid into this omega
sanction and just relishes in the endless death and defeat of his foe. So the match is over.
Thanos beats Darkseid. If I could drop my podcast mic, I would. Oh, you should. Like you should
drop it and never pick it up again, because you sound stupid. Darkseid would just generate
a boom tube between him and Thanos, as well as like a second portal behind Thanos. So Thanos
is just going to omega sanction himself like the purple bitch he is. Match over. Oh, shit,
I think you forgot. that I mentioned that Corvus Glaive can't die if his blade isn't destroyed.
So while Darkseid thinks he just won the fight, he's going to find himself straight up sliced
in half by Corvus Glaive, who was resurrected by his weapon. So now the match is over and
the joke's on you. But why? I think the joke's actually on you because Thanos did, in fact,
destroy Corvus's blade when he killed him, you know, under the influence of the paranoid pills.
So sorry, but no. Well, we'll see what actually happens. We'll go ahead and run the stats on
these teams to find out who will win. And either Corvus Glaive resurrects and slices Darkseid
in two, or Corvus Glaive does not resurrect because his weapon was destroyed. Right, it
all comes down to whether Thanos destroyed Corvus' weapon, which I'm sure he did. Let's go ahead
and run the stats and come back with a winner. Hey G9K, hit it. Inputting data, running calculations,
processing results, simulations complete. All right, that was a fun matchup, a really close
matchup, surprisingly close after we put in all the stats. Well, I mean, it wasn't too
surprising that Darkseid was the most powerful on either of our rosters. Yeah, Darkseid ended
up winning 89.1% of all of his matches, basically nine out of 10 fights against the Black Order
and Thanos. Darkseid won. He's a big ass cheater character. I mean not by much because Thanos
wasn't too far behind in his win rate, winning 87.1% of his matches. Yeah, they're definitely
the most powerful characters on their respective teams, just wiping the floor with the other
respective generals. Now what I thought was interesting was that while I had probably the
more balanced team, on your side you had the most powerful characters in Proxima, Midnight,
and Supergiant, but also the weakest when it came to Thane. Yeah, Thane actually wasn't
impressive. Statistically at all which makes me hope that I didn't choose incorrectly in
picking him for this team duel because Yeah, he has massive damage potential with the abilities
of both of his arms And he has you know enhanced physicals being an inhuman but other than that
he's not too impressive Statistically compared to the new gods, you know things like his evasiveness
and perception just weren't that great Yeah, he only won twenty point eight percent of his
matches He was kind of my wild card for this team duel though. I don't know if I really
had a wild card. I was kind of surprised that my weakest character was Kanto. I thought it
was going to be Dasad because I figured he was the least warrior-esque of the group, but it
turns out he's pretty smart and Kanto is pretty unimpressive. Yeah, the guy just carries a
sword and wears a ridiculous Renaissance fair outfit. I gotta say, he definitely does not
look like Darkseid's chief assassin. That's exactly what he wants you to think. I think
the biggest discrepancy between the team stats was versatility. Marvel's guys were way more
versatile than DC's guys. And durability, actually DC's guys were way more durable overall than
the Marvel team, largely because Darkseid's durability is off the charts. And also they're
all new gods, whereas the Black Order are a pretty diverse group of aliens from across
the universe. So I actually wasn't surprised that they were more versatile. Considering
all the results, all the stats, Jonathan, who's winning this match? Do you think? I think it's
going to be really close. I'm not sure who's going to win, but I really hope it's Darksides
Elite because I just really don't want him to lose to Thanos. I hate Thanos. Dude sucks.
And I think our poll takers on Instagram agree because 64% of them voted in favor of Darksides
Elite over the Black Order. The fools! AG9K, the results please. Here you are, sir. Alright,
the winner in this team matchup between DarkSide's Elite and the Black Order is... DarkSide's
Elite. Yes! It was pretty close though. Out of 1,000 matches, DarkSide's Elite beat the
Black Order. 511 times. So their win rate was 51.1% over the Black Order's 48.9%. Yeah, they
only won 489 out of the 1000 battles. Oh wow, that's not pretty close. That's really close.
I figured it would be, but it's still surprising. Thanos just cannot beat Darkseid. What the
fuck? What does he gotta do to beat this guy? Nothing, he can't. There's nothing he could
do. Just accept it already. Is he gonna have to pull out his Infinity Gauntlet again? Like
he did last time? Oh, does Darkseid need to pull out his Anti-Life Equation? No, it's not
gonna do anything to the Infinity Gauntlet. It's gonna- I think we've already established
this. Yes it is. It's gonna put Thanos with his Infinity Gauntlet under the control of
Darkseid. Why does this not make sense to you? Because Thanos, when he has the Infinity Gauntlet,
has the Mind Stone, which would protect him from something like the Anti-Life Equation.
and he has the reality stone, which would also do the same thing. Your point is, is there
a life stone on the infinity gauntlet? Because as long as Thanos is alive, he's under dark
sides control when he has the anti life equation. There's a soul stone. Oh, shit. So there you
go. There you go. Thanos wins. Suck it, nerds. Clearly, he doesn't. So you, you know, reverse
card. No, you that does it for this duel, guys. H2 9K helped close this out. Thanks for listening
to Dynamic Duel. Visit the show's website at dynamicDuel.com and follow us on Instagram
at dynamicDuelpodcast. You can support the show on Patreon at patreon.com slash dynamicDuel
and joining a tier that works for you or by rating and reviewing Dynamic Duel on Apple
podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser, or on our website. Don't forget to listen to the other shows in
the Dynamite podcast network, including Max Destruction, Senjoh World, and Konsole Kombat.
In our next episode, we will be doing another duel episode. This time we are pitting Talon,
a Batman villain from The Court of Owls, against Nico Minoru, who is a Runaways character and
affiliated with a different cult in Marvel known as The Pride. But that does it for this episode,
guys. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken Johnson, John Sturowski, Zachary
Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Mickey Matangian, Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton. Austin
Wyselowski, AJ Dunkerley, Nick Abonto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spies, Dean Molesky,
Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Leiner, Mike Williams, and Oscar Galvez for helping to make
this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers.
Neither the Infinity Gauntlet nor the Anti-Life Equation can match the supreme might of my
Draw 4 Uno Reverse card. Come at me.