you
Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate
the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations.
I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe. And happy Halloween, everyone! Yeah, happy
Halloween, which was, of course, yesterday. But we're gonna keep it going for one more
day with this Halloween-inspired duel episode, Solomon Grundy vs. Werewolf by Night. And it's
been a while since we've done a duel episode, not since episode 300. where we play Young
Avengers vs Young Justice. So this will be fun getting back to the duels. These characters
are pretty spooky. So hopefully you don't get too scared listening to this. Before we get
into the main events of this episode though, we will be breaking down the comic book movie
news from the past week, including the news that James Gunn and Peter Safran have been
chosen to lead DC Studios. Finally, I didn't think it was gonna happen. We're gonna talk
all about it. We're also going to talk about the Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania official
trailer, the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special official trailer, and the news that
Disney Plus is getting a Vision Quest series. As always, we list our segment times in our
episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to
a particular topic. Guys, don't forget to join us on Patreon where we offer ad-free episodes
of the show, Bonus content including top 10 episodes and bloopers, Jonathan and I just
got done counting down the top 10 spookiest on-screen moments for Marvel and DC. You also
get access to our new Infinity Crisis Marvel vs. DC deck building card game we made. And
you get an invite to our Discord chat server. Check all of that out at patreon.com slash
dynamic duel which is linked in our show notes. Our lowest tier is only $2 a month. And for
$10 a month you get all of that and you get to become an executive producer of the show.
and help us determine the episode content. We wanna give a big shout out to Jay Chow, Devin
Davis, and Scott Camacho for becoming new patrons of ours. Scott Camacho is also a new executive
producer. Yeah, and I know Devin Davis purchased the Infinity Crisis deck building card game.
If you haven't already, Devin, be sure to check out the Patreon post that lists the rules for
the game. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. A No Prize is an award Marvel
used to give out up into the 90s to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize, is a digital
award that we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question
of the week. Last week, in a question that immediately became obsolete the day that episode dropped,
we asked, whose vision of the DC film universe are you most interested in? The Rocks, James
Gunn's, Matt Reeves, or JJ Abrams? When we asked our question, the trades were reporting that
those four were competing for power and their vision when it came to the DC film universe.
Of course, as we'll be talking about later on, James Gunn and Peter Safran have become the
heads of DC Studios, but we saw some honorable mentions to announce as well as the no prize
winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Eric Maizel, who said,
he's an outstanding director with fantastic vision. I feel like he can do no wrong. I didn't
love what Abrams did with the Star Trek movies and his universe has been abandoned. I didn't
watch any of his Star Wars stuff because it's Star Wars gross. I hadn't seen Black Adam or
anything fast or furious and the Batman was just plain awful. So yeah, going with Gunn's
vision for DC's future. Okay, there's a lot of things that I disagree with in this honorable
mention. I do however agree that I'm not a fan of JJ Abrams franchises that he's done with
like Star Trek with Star Wars. Of all of the choices, he was my least favorite to kind of
take the reins of DC. To Eric's credit, he did give this answer prior to the news breaking
that James Gunn had become the new CEO of DC Studios. He did see a lot of controversial
things there, but I do agree that the Batman sucked. So wrong, so wrong! Our next honorable
mention goes to Scott Camacho who said, For the vision, I'm going to have to say Dwayne
Johnson. I mean, come on, Johnny, the guy brought a Superman back. But I believe by the time
you guys get this recording, James Gunn and Peter Saffron have been named co-CEOs for DC
films. So let's bring on the Gunn era. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I was really looking
forward to what The Rock was going to have planned for. the DC universe considering the fact that
I really, really liked Black Adam. I thought it was a lot of fun. Dwayne Johnson did bring
back Henry Cavill, which was amazing. I can't wait to see him as Superman again in future
films. And I liked the idea of the justice league and suicide squad and, you know, justice society
and the Shazam family, everyone basically going up against Black Adam, a little self-serving
maybe, but I think the rock would have made it really cool. Well, maybe Gunn will collaborate
with The Rock a little bit, so we'll still get to see The Rock's vision. Yeah, that's my hope.
I mean, you can't just drop The Rock after making one Black Adam film. Like, I would love to
see a sequel to that. Isn't that how that song goes? You can't drop The Rock, can't drop The
Rock. But no, yeah, we all need to tweet James Gunn that song. He'll know what it means. I
think the actual lyrics are, you can't stop The Rock. Oh, it's fine. Our next honorable
mention goes to Kevin O'dealon, who said... Hi guys, the vision that I would like to see
more will be the rocks vision because as a Marvel fan I feel like DC movies, this is as good
a chance as they'll get to be as good as Marvel movies. Sorry Johnny DC, but yeah, definitely
a very enjoyable movie and I feel like continuity wise I'll be good for the franchise which is
a huge problem that DC movies have been having and yeah, go Marvel. Go Marvel. I think that
really says it all. DC had one shot to be as good as Marvel and they blew it by not picking
the Rock, according to Kevin O'dealon. Well, I mean, the Suicide Squad was pretty damn good.
I would say that Black Adam was just as entertaining as any Marvel movie more so. And yeah, I remember
your first reaction to seeing the movie, Joseph, was that it was the most Marvel movie that
DC has made. So if you're a fan of Marvel, I could see where the Rock's vision really appeals
to you. We want to give a big shout out to Landon Parker, Benjamin Ryan, Carson Miklis, and Oz
for taking the time to visit our website and leave their answers to our question of the
week. We really appreciate you guys doing that. But the winner of this week's snow prize is
Dustin Belcom, who said, Hey Dynamic Duel, Dustin Belcom here. And you can call this sucking
up to the host or whatever you want, but it's an honest answer. I want Johnny V's vision.
I want...
put in the discord chat of his plan that he was ahead. I want to join NGC all the way.
Okay, now Dustin is definitely sucking up here and his answer is a little bit inside baseball
because on our Discord chat server where all the patrons hang out, Jonathan posted his vision
of what the DC Films franchise would look like over the next 10 years or so. And yeah, it
was pretty solid. Yeah, David Zazlov had mentioned during the last investors meeting for Warner
Brothers Discovery that he was looking for someone with a 10 year plan. Well, I have one and I
think it's pretty awesome. If you wanna know what it is, James Gunn. Just feel free to at
me. I'm totally available to spitball ideas. Yeah, James Gunn, you have to join our Patreon
if you want to know what it is. If you're listening to this. Become an executive producer. But
I do have to say Dustin has a little bit of brown on his nose. It is the best way to win
a no prize. Like hands down. No, I am very honored that he chose me to be the head of DC Studios.
Alas, I am not, but maybe someday. Until then, thank you for submitting your answer. If you
the listener want to try at winning your own no prize. Stay tuned until later on in this
episode when we'll be asking another Question of the Week. And now that that's done, on to
the news!
Okay, so I will admit that this past year has had a lot of highs and lows in terms of being
a DC fan. Just the fact that Warner Brothers was bought by Discovery earlier this year,
and it really didn't seem like we had clear leadership, or at least leadership that was
willing to make a cohesive film cinematic universe, a la Kevin Feige over at Marvel. I just like
suffered from so much anxiety this year. Being a DC fan, but with the recent news that DC
Studios now has a leader chosen by David Zaslav or leaders I should say James Gunn and Peter
Safran are going to be the new heads of DC Studios and their job actually starts today November
1st, it was huge news. I did not see this coming I actually kind of lost hope but then out of
nowhere we got the news about Gunn and Safran and I felt really happy I felt like really
happy I didn't expect them to take charge, but looking at their past bodies of work, I think
DC Studios is in a really good place. I was totally shocked by this news when I first heard
it. I was a little bit embittered because I consider James Gunn more of a Marvel guy, considering
that he still has the Holiday Special for Guardians of the Galaxy and Volume 3 coming out later
on next spring. So he has all this insider Marvel knowledge. and he's just gonna bring all of
that to DC, which essentially means that DC is ripping off Marvel once again. But of course,
we also had the Suicide Squad from James Gunn, which was fantastic, and we had Peacemaker,
which was amazing. Like, that show was way better than I thought it was going to be. But on the
production side, we also have Peter Safran, who was the producer for Aquaman, which grossed
over a billion dollars and is DC's most successful, highest-grossing film of all time. And we also
have Shazam, which I loved. I loved that movie. He produced the Suicide Squad, and he's bringing
us the Shazam and Aquaman sequels along with Blue Beetle. He's a really good producer. I
guess initially Zezlov wanted Safran to take the role of the CEO of DC Studios entirely,
but Safran was unwilling to do it unless he had creative support. And since James Gunn
is a writer and a director, Safran pitched that the two of them would lead together. Yeah,
it kind of surprises me that they both have the title of CEO. What they have does seem
similar to the structure that they have at Pixar studios, which is owned by Disney, where Jim
Morris is the CEO, but John Lasseter is the CCO, chief creative officer. And you would
think that Gunn would have taken on the CCO role as opposed to CEO. Yeah, it is pretty
interesting. I don't know what kind of, you know, administration background that James
Gunn has, but yeah, both Gunn and Safran. are co-chairs and co-CEOs of DC Studios, which
is a newly formed division at Warner Brothers, and that's going to replace DC Films. As co-chairs
and co-CEOs, James Gunn and Peter Safran are in charge of not only films and television,
but animation as well, except for Todd Phillips' Joker film, and the word is still out on the
sequel for Matt Reeves, The Batman. What do you think James Gunn and Peter Safran's taking
over of DC studios means for the future of DC movies? That's hard to answer. I gotta say
at the very least they're all gonna have badass soundtracks. And I imagine they're gonna play
out a lot like Aquaman and Shazam and The Suicide Squad, just really fun films. And it kind of
seems like they're gonna continue the continuity established by the DCEU. Like Henry Cavill
is still Superman, Gal Gadot is still Wonder Woman. All of that doesn't seem like it's going
to change. Peacemaker is in that universe as well, along with Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn.
All of those characters, I think, are gonna stay in their roles. And instead of rebooting
anything, my guess is that James Gunn is just gonna keep building out this universe. Although
I guess I should say it's no longer called the DCEU, it's now just the DCU. Which is a total
ripoff of the MCU. I do think it's gonna get a little bit confusing when you're referring
to the comic universe or like the... DC Universe Infinite app or the cinematic movie universe
now. We're going to have to come up with some new acronyms pretty soon. But yeah, look, something
new. Something's already changed. Gunn and Saffron are doing new things at DC and it's really
exciting. But this brings us to our question of the week.
What new DC project do you hope James Gunn and Peter Safran officially announce first? Record
your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right
hand corner, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message can be up to 30
seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast.
We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a Dynamic Duel No Prize that we'll post
to Instagram. Be sure to answer before November 6th. In Marvel news we got the long-awaited
official trailer for Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania. It was an amazing trailer. It looks like a
really fun movie. It was really cool. Like I think this is the coolest Ant-Man has ever
looked. It's definitely taking the franchise places that it's never been. You know the first
two Ant-Man movies were heist films that took place largely on Earth. We did briefly visit
the Quantum Realm in the last movie but it looks like most of this movie is going to take place
in the Quantum Realm. where we get to see all the weirdness that takes place in the universe
down at the subatomic level. I don't know if Marvel is referencing the Microverse or the
Cosmos dimension within this trailer, but it looks very like Guardians of the Galaxy, Star
Wars-ish. Totally. And I think that can only be a good thing for the Ant-Man and the Wasp
franchise. Of course the trailer starts out with a lot of jokes, basically Ant-Man talking
about how cool it is to be an Avenger and how he gets cheered on by people in the street
who are like, thank you, Spider-Man. I thought that was a really solid joke. And it paid off
later on in the trailer as well. Yeah. You know, like everyone may not recognize him as Ant-Man,
but guess who does? Fucking Kang. Kang the Conqueror, yeah. We see that Cassie, who is aged up now
after the events of... Avengers Infinity War where she didn't get blipped and the rest of
her family did. She's doing some science stuff just like her grandfather and her dad. She
creates a beacon into the quantum realm to check on how things are going down there. Of course
this freaks out Janet Van Dyne who has spent a large part of her life in the quantum realm
and knows about the dangers there. They all get sucked into it and that's where this adventure
takes place. Now this is a different actress from the one that appeared in Endgame, correct?
Yeah, in Endgame she was played by Emma Furman, but in this upcoming movie it's gonna be Katherine
Newton. And I have to say, I think Katherine does a pretty good job here. I like her delivery
on these lines that she gives. Yeah, she's a pretty good actress. I haven't seen her in
too much. I did see her in the movie Freaky, but she was great in that. The music that plays
in the background of the Quantum Realm scenes is Goodbye Yellow
Oh yeah, and it just kind of alludes to the fact that they're going somewhere just wild
and fantastic, kind of like Oz. I loved how they took parts of the song and made like a
synth sound out of it. It sounded really cool. It did. There was this one shot where it looks
like they're almost in a Star Wars cantina. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah. It'll
be interesting to see who they meet down there. Of course, we do get a glimpse of Bill Murray.
Yeah, a lot of the technology we see in this trailer, though, has caught a lot of people's
attention because it looks very reminiscent of what we see. like on Shang-Chi's 10 rings
and on the bangle that Miss Marvel wears. Which we theorized was a nega-band. Yeah, yeah, but
I almost wonder now if it was like technology that Kang developed. Oh, that's possible. I
think the costume that they gave Jonathan Majors as Kang the Conqueror was spot on. It looks
really cool. I like how they translated Kang's blue face as more of a blue light screen that
goes over his face. Yeah, yeah. That was a nice touch. I really like that. Overall, he seems
to be playing a much different character than he who remains at the end of the Loki television
series. Jonathan Majors is just a chameleon of an actor. Yeah, and this version has scars
on his face. Yeah. Which is interesting. Like the mask that he wears in the comics. They
do a pretty good job of setting him up as a threat. Now, we know that Kang is going to
appear again in Avengers the Kang Dynasty because that movie was announced at the last D23. It
looks like this movie is more setting up Kang than actually fighting and defeating him. And
to that end, I really like how this movie seems to be displaying him as this force to be reckoned
with, just like by the look that Paul Rudd gives him. I think that was a pretty good performance
on his end. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was great. I really love how they didn't end this trailer
on a joke. It was a very serious moment. And that feeling just kind of stayed with you even
when the trailer was done. They didn't ruin it with bathos. This movie overall is gonna
be one of my more anticipated Marvel movies really continuing the story that was left off
from Avengers Endgame, which a lot of phase four really hasn't done too much of. But since
Quantumania kicks off phase five, I think it's really gonna take us in this new direction
for the MCU. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It kind of feels like we're going back
to the Marvel that we know and love. Yeah. Not me though. You love it, you love it. You know
what else you'll love? You'll love the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special, which we also
got a trailer for this past week. Dude, I'm gonna love anything James Gunn, henceforth.
It's gonna be the best stuff. Now the special for Werewolf by Night was only an hour long.
I'm assuming that this holiday special is going to be of a comparable length. In its- We see
that Peter Quill Star-Lord is down in the dumps due to Gamora leaving him. Of course, this
is the Gamora that he doesn't have a history with because that one died by the hands of
Thanos. This new Gamora was time displaced into the main MCU timeline and I guess she doesn't
really want to have anything to do with him. So with the Earth holiday of Christmas approaching,
the Guardians of the Galaxy decide to kind of do something special for Star-Lord. Part of
their plan is to travel to Earth to kidnap the legendary Kevin Bacon and present him to Star-Lord
as a Christmas present. Now I'm sure that's not what the whole plot of the special is,
probably just a side plot with Mantis and Drax, but already this thing is shaping up to be
hilarious. I really love Drax's delivery when he tells Kevin Bacon, he's like so excited,
he's like you're coming with us as a Christmas present. Like that makes it okay, you know?
And to see Kevin Bacon in this was so shocking. Like I was not expecting that. Yeah, I love
how the credits were like, and introducing Kevin Bacon. Yeah. Of course, Kevin Bacon was referenced
in the first Guardians movie as one of the major heroes of Earth. He was the guy who taught
all the people with the sticks up their butts how to relax and dance. You know? So cool that
he's in this. And it'll be so interesting to see like how the real world interacts with
the zany world from James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy franchise. Yeah, yeah, totally.
I noticed Cosmo is also credited in this trailer. Yeah, I can't remember who does the voice for
Cosmo, but of course Cosmo will have a Russian accent and maybe he'll find his way back to
Earth. I don't know. I was also surprised at how different Groot looks like now that he's
older. Yeah, that was pretty weird, right? He looks much more bulky, I would say. His head
is still pretty small. Not as tall as it was from the first movie. It almost looks like
it's live action now. Like they got a guy in a costume and they're CGing the face. It does
kind of look like that, doesn't it? Yeah, maybe it's cheaper that way. Maybe they're saying
that Groot is bulking up or something in his late teens. By this point, I'm hoping that
he'll be adult Groot again because he's been growing for quite a while. I think one of the
more surprising things that was announced for this trailer was that the special is coming
out really soon in less than a month. It'll be debuting on the Disney Plus channel on November
25th, which is the day after Thanksgiving in the US. Yeah, I mean, just to touch on the
James Gunn taking over for DC News real quick one more time. I'm really curious to see how
they plan on promoting these upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy films, this holiday special and
Guardians of the Galaxy volume three without James Gunn. because of course he's not going
to be able to work for the competition. Exactly. They probably have some clause in his contract
that says he has to finish his contract with Marvel in the promotion and post-production
of the Guardians movies, and then from then on he has to work for DC exclusively and can
no longer work for Marvel. I don't even know about that. I think they might just have someone
else wrap up post-production on volume 3, and maybe he'll do no promotional work for the
holiday special. I mean, they have actors for that. Yeah, that could happen as well. We'll
have to see. But in the last bit of Marvel news, also dealing with the Disney Plus platform,
we learned this past week that a new Marvel series focusing on Vision will be coming out.
It'll be called Vision Quest, which is a name that I don't love, but it is really awesome
to see that Vision is coming back after his last appearance in WandaVision. I actually
like that name a lot, because it's like another pun, kind of like WandaVision. Why don't they
just call this Vision then, or The Vision? Because he's going on a quest, bro. Okay. I was kind
of hoping they would do something like Tom King's story where he gets his own family That would
have felt like a much more direct sequel to WandaVision. I think this show might go that
route I think it'll deal more with visions journey back to humanity as a worry, you know He was
never human but now he's just the shell of what he once was when he was the wielder of the
mind stone Hopefully he comes back to the vision that we know and love through the course of
this show Deadline did suggest that there was a possibility for Wanda Maximoff to appear
in this series, but since we figured that she allegedly died in the Multiverse of Madness
movie, it's hard to know whether or not that's the case. Of course, they could always find
a way to bring her back. I think they're going to bring her back even earlier than Vision
Quest. I think we'll see her in Agatha, Covenant of Chaos. You think so? That's my guess. I
think that's why they changed the name of it. I mean, it used to be called House of Harkness.
But now they're talking about Chaos Magic. I think it's a huge telegraph. That's not a bad
theory, for sure. There's not much more news regarding Vision Quest. We don't know when
it's coming out. It likely won't be debuting on the platform for the next couple of years,
but it is exciting that Paul Bettany is coming back. But I think that does it for the news
for this episode. Let's move on to the main event, where we find out who would win in a
duel between the zombie monster, Solomon Grundy, and the werewolf by night.
Okay, Solomon Grundy versus werewolf by night. Again, we're doing this as a tie into Halloween,
the holiday that was yesterday and the whole spooky season around it. Solomon Grundy, if
you're not familiar with him, he is originally a Green Lantern villain who is this reanimated
swamp zombie monster. Kind of like Swamp Thing, but not. Yeah, semi-related to Swamp Thing,
you'll find out in the bio. Werewolf by Night, of course, recently had his own special debut
on Disney Plus. It was Marvel's Halloween special. And once we saw how awesome that short film
was, we knew that we had to get the character in a dual episode. Yeah, and it doesn't get
more Halloween than a werewolf versus a zombie. And werewolf by night has fought zombies in
the past, the Marvel zombies, with the Midnight Sons. So I just got to say, Solomon Grundy's
going down. What do you think, huh? Mm-hmm. Well, let's find out! If you've never listened
to one of our duel episodes before, the way we determine a winner between these two characters
is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations using their statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation
is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. And in our case it
randomizes statistics along a normal distribution, which is a bell curve, as a way to simulate
the many variables that can occur during battle. The stat parameters we use are based on the
official Marvel power grid, and we use that criteria to extrapolate the DC character stats.
We've included some additional stat categories of our own, such as range, damage potential,
versatility, and perception, in order to create a more complete and robust simulation. Running
these 1000 simulations gives us a percentage of wins for each character, and we declare
the one with the higher percentage to be the ultimate victor, considering that they're more
likely to win any given battle. No character ever wins 100% of the time, comics have shown
that there's usually a way for Batman to defeat Superman. And we feel our method falls in line
with the precedents that have been established in the comic book stories. And we use this
method because it was the least subjective, most unbiased way to determine who would win.
Of course, we are both heavily biased toward our respective allegiances, so instead of debating
these matches forever, we just let the math decide for us. There are no fan votes here,
and no relying on just feats. Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down
each character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one
of the 1000 simulations we run would play out beat for beat. And I believe it's your turn
to go first with the Marvel characters backstory. Let me go ahead and tell you the spooky backstory
of Werewolf by Night. Centuries ago, in the late 1700s, a Transylvanian man named Grigori
Russov refused to bow before the ruler of the lands Vlad Tepes, who was also the immortal
supernatural being Dracula. For his insolence, Dracula killed Grigori's wife. In revenge,
Grigori attacked Dracula, seemingly killing him with a stake through the heart, but Grigori
was then bitten by a werewolf that was in the vampire's service, forever inflicting Grigori
and his family line with the curse of werewolfism. Generations later, in the Russov Castle estate
in Transylvania, Grigori Russov's descendant Gregor, and the American woman named Laura,
conceived two children, Jacob and Lyssa. Every full moon, in secret, Gregor would lock himself
away in the castle's keep to protect others from harm. Yet one stormy evening, a bolt of
lightning destroyed a section of the keep's walls, and Gregor, in his wild werewolf form,
escaped and terrorized some of the local villagers. The townspeople, armed with silver bullets,
shot and killed Gregor. and the Russo family was driven from their castle, with Laura taking
her children to America and changing her last name to Russell. The children, Jacob and Lissa,
eventually forgot the events of that night due to their young age. 15 years later, Jacob,
AKA Jack Russell, celebrated his 18th birthday when he unknowingly inherited the curse of
werewolfism and changed for the first time by the light of the full moon. The day after,
His mother, Laura, who at the time had been fatally injured in a car crash, admitted to
Jacob on her deathbed about his father's past and the Russoff curse. In an attempt to find
a cure, Jack learned about the Darkhold, a magical book of dark spells. Despite going through
many adventures acquiring the book and taking it to a priest to read, the book possessed
the clergyman and Jack was forced to fight him in a battle that ended with the Darkhold vanished
from sight. Jack became a lonely drifter traveling the world, ending up in his father's homeland
of Transylvania. There he discovered a copy of the Darkhold and fought Dracula over it,
though the book ended up lost in the Alps Mountains. Over the years, Jack teamed up with Frankenstein's
monster to battle a satanic cult that had kidnapped his sister, he fought against Morbius, the
living vampire anti-hero, and he teamed up with the hero Tigra against the villainous organization
Hydra. Eventually, the group of aristocratic criminals known as the Committee tracked Jack
down. The Committee was revealed to be behind the car accident that killed Jack's mother,
Laura, and they hired the mercenary Moon Knight to attack Jack, with their ultimate goal being
to capture and control the werewolf for use in their own nefarious schemes. You can learn
more about Moon Knight in our Batman vs. Moon Knight duel episode. Moon Knight learned about
the Committee's criminal intent, however, and he and Jack teamed up to take the Committee
down. Jack also teamed up with his reluctant rival Morbius, the swamp creature Manthing,
and the demon possessed hero Ghost Rider to form the Legion of Monsters team, though they
tragically soon disbanded after accidentally killing a benevolent entity called the Starseed.
You can learn more about Ghost Rider, Manthing, and Morbius in their respective duel episodes
against Etrigen, Swampthing, and Manbat. Through all of this, Jack retained his human mind while
in the werewolves form, but was never fully in control of his actions. During an adventure
alongside Brother Voodoo, Jack managed to gain control of when he transformed, though it could
only be under moonlight and he would still lose control during the full moon. Because of his
greater control, he was able to team up with less supernatural heroes such as Iron Man and
Spider Woman against the sorceress Morgan Le Fay. After managing to contact the spirit of
his father Gregor and battling a cult of werewolves that had been turned by Jack in the past, Jack
gained full control of his werewolf self and his transformation. Despite this, he still
kept his distance as a lone wanderer and ventured up to Canada where he fought both the mutant
Sabretooth and the Wendigo in the Canadian Northwoods. Later, Jack was captured by a villain called
the Demon Druid and his blood was used to create a werewolf serum. This serum was used on Captain
America, turning him into Cap Wolf, who was able to free Jack and other werewolves including
Jade Jonah Jameson's son, John Jameson. also known as Man-Wolf who was an astronaut that
was turned into a wolf by the other dimensional moonstone pendant. And there was also Wolf-Spain,
a mutant and member of the New Mutants team. Damn, there's a lot of werewolves in Marvel!
Together, they all teamed up and defeated Demon Druid. Jack was later slain by the vampire
hunter Blade, who at the time was called Switchblade and driven mad by the Darkhold. Jack was soon
resurrected though when the effects of the Darkhold spell on Blade were reversed by the supernatural
heroes called the Midnight Suns, whom you can learn more about in our Justice League Dark
vs. Midnight Suns dual episode. Upon Jack's return, he had lost the control of his werewolf
form that he had gained earlier, and he resorted to locking himself in a cage during the full
moon. He learns that in order to regain control, he needed to acquire the three pieces of the
Wolf's Blade, an ancient mystical artifact. Jack was transported to a branch of Hell where
he battled the original wolf demon, Varkolok, and he regained control. Jack's niece, who
had become a vampire, was taken into the custody of SHIELD, the international law enforcement
organization. When Jack tried to break her out of their custody, the two were recruited into
the Hellling Commandos, SHIELD's own monster squad named after Nick Fury's original band
of World War II heroes. Oh, it's like the Creature Commandos. Right. Later released, Jack was
brought by Morbius into the Midnight Suns to fight against a zombie plague, and later joined
a new iteration of the Legion of Monsters alongside the monster hunter Elsa Bloodstone, whom Jack
briefly dated. Recently, Jack helped protect his former werewolf ally Wolfsbane after the
birth of her newborn child, Slash Cub. A new werewolf finite character was introduced in
2020, this time a teenager of Hopi Native American descent named Jake Gomez, who also came from
a cursed family. He stopped life pharmaceuticals from kidnapping and experimenting on natives
from the Hopi reservation. However, outside of his own mini-series, he hasn't shown up
again except once or twice. Powers-wise, Werewolf by Night is a lycanthrope, able to turn into
a wolf retaining his normal human intelligence and resembling a wolf-man hybrid. Under the
full moon though, he transforms against his will, turns wild, and resembles more of a wolf.
He has similar powers gaining superhuman strength, able to lift around one ton, speed fast enough
to be a blur in short bursts, durability, agility, and enhanced senses including smell, hearing,
and night vision. His claws and fangs are sharp enough to rend stone and soft metals. Werewolf
by night has a vast healing factor that is ten times faster than humans, and he is nearly
impossible to kill, even surviving decapitation. The only thing that can kill him... are weapons
made from his soul weakness, silver, due to its mystical purity. Jack's mind, often within
the werewolf form, is well-versed in occult knowledge. And that's werewolf finite. But
that's only when he's in control, right? Right. So is he like stronger and faster and stuff
during the full moon? Yeah, it kind of waxes and wanes similar to how moon knights does.
At the height of a full moon, he's been shown to lift things that are like two tons. So it's
kind of fair to assume that- like his abilities double in their effectiveness when he's in
full wolf mode. Only two tons, huh? Hmm. That doesn't matter, I mean, does Solomon Grundy
weigh more than two tons? I doubt that. He's mostly made of shit. Hahahaha. Swamp shit,
sure. I think though you'll come to have a newfound respect for Solomon Grundy. New respect and
fear after I get through his backstory. No, I won't. Let me get into it. Several miles
outside of Gotham City in the suburb of Somerset, exists Slaughter Swamp, where a wealthy yet
despised gentleman named Cyrus Gold was murdered in the late 19th century. No one knew why Cyrus
was murdered or who murdered him. It was rumored that Cyrus was the father of a prostitute's
child and was killed by her pimp when he refused to give into their blackmail and extortion.
Whatever the circumstances of his death, the Parliament of Trees, which you can learn more
about in our Swamp Thing vs Man Thing episode, attempted to turn him into the next Swamp Thing,
an avatar of the green, though the mystic process was unsuccessful since Cyrus had not died by
fire. Whether due to the Parliament of Tree's interference or some other supernatural reason,
the mostly decayed body of Cyrus Gold, now primarily composed of swamp and plant matter, was resurrected
nearly 50 years later as a giant beastly man with no memory of who he was. After stumbling
on two criminals hiding out in the swamp, Cyrus killed them in his confusion and stole their
clothes, making his way eventually to a hobo camp on the outskirts of the swamp. When asked
his name, Cyrus could respond only with the one thing he remembered about himself, that
he was born on a Monday. When one of the men in the camp brought up the nursery rhyme Solomon
Grundy, that became Cyrus' nickname. Strong yet mindless and easily manipulated, Grundy
was ushered into a life of crime, and it wasn't long before he was confronted by the Golden
Age Green Lantern, Alan Scott, who you can learn more about in our Green Lantern vs Iceman duel
episode. Alan Scott's Green Lantern ring was weak to the element of wood, and because of
Grundy's body composition, he was immune to Green Lantern's energy constructs, making him
a formidable foe for the hero. Still, Green Lantern managed to use his wits to kill Grundy,
hurtling him in front of a train. Cursed with continual zombie resurrection, however, Grundy
returned from the dead, oftentimes with new personalities, levels of intelligence, and
sometimes powers. Eventually, Grundy became much more of a threat than Green Lantern could
handle alone, and after taking on the entire Justice Society on several occasions, Grundy
was often stranded on distant planets or in Earth's orbit. You can learn more about the
Justice Society in our JSA vs. Fantastic Four team duel. Once, while trapped in a magic bubble
created by Dr. Fate, Solomon Grundy was able to absorb some of that magic and was transported
to a parallel Earth. He later battled the combined might of both the Justice Society and the Justice
League in Slaughter Swamp, though it was defeated and sealed there for a time. After battles
with Superman and Swamp Thing, Grundy took something of a heroic turn for a time after he was rescued
from a glacier by Ellen Scott's daughter, the hero Jade. and he became an ally of her team,
Infinity Inc. This was undone, however, after the villain named Harley Quinn, not to be confused
with Harley Quinn, used her powers of illusion to fool Solomon Grundy into attacking Infinity
Inc, and unwittingly led to the death of Skyman. After the crisis on Infinite Earths merged
the multiverse, Grundy next appeared haunting the sewers of Gotham City and became an occasional
villain of Batman. Grundy eventually moved to Opal City, the home of Starman, whom Grundy
met in the sewers there. Grundy, innocent and childlike in this incarnation, became friends
with Jack Knight, aka Starman, who named him Solly. Grundy also became friends with Mikhail
Thomas, an alien, also known as Starman, and Grundy even sacrificed himself to save Mikhail
from being crushed by a collapsing building. Mortally wounded, Grundy was helped. at the
request of Jack Knight, his father Ted Knight, and Alan Scott, by Batman and the Floronic
Man, the latter of whom was also a plant-based creature. Together, all five men consumed mystic
seeds that allowed them to enter the consciousness of Grundy, and though they attempted to rescue
the Solly personality, the other malicious and evil personalities with Grundy proved too strong,
and when the men awoke from their journey, Grundy had died. Grundy joined the Injustice Society
for a time and was later jokerized by Joker Venom, after which Grundy hid from the world
within Green Arrow's abandoned Arrow Cave. You can learn more about Green Arrow in our Green
Arrow vs Hawkeye episode. After stumbling across Grundy and his old cave, Green Arrow was violently
attacked by Grundy, forcing Green Arrow to strangle him with a bowstring. Green Arrow later helped
Dr. Chrissy Cavendish of Star Labs capture the resurrected Grundy, after Dr. Cavendish claimed
to be a descendant of Cyrus Gold. When the cure intended for Grundy instead transformed Dr.
Cavendish into a monster, Green Arrow managed to defeat her and then set Grundy free. After
joining the Secret Society of Super-Villains at the Secret Six, Grundy was killed by Superboy
Prime and was reborn with an advanced intellect, with which he orchestrated a complex plot to
manipulate the Justice League of America to helping him transfer his new mind into the
body of an indestructible amazo android. Before his plan could come to fruition, however, he
was torn apart by the wind power of Red Tornado, who you can learn more about in our Red Tornado
vs. Sandman episode. After dying on the planet known as Salvation, where he and countless
other villains were imprisoned by Amanda Waller, Grundy was reborn in Slaughter Swamp, this
time as Cyrus Gold. Possessing fragmented memories of his violent life as Cyrus and becoming self-aware
of his past lives as Solomon Grundy, he became terrified of dying again and being reborn as
a mindless zombie, Solomon Grundy. Frustrated and afraid, Cyrus ended up in a scuffle with
police, and while on the run, he jumped onto a highway and was killed. Returning to life
once again as a mindless zombie and fleeing to the Gotham sewers where he battled Killer
Croc, and grave of Cyrus Gold, self-aware once more. It was there that he encountered the
Phantom Stranger, who enlisted Ellen Scott, Green Lantern, to help Grundy discover who
killed Cyrus Gold so that Grundy could forgive them and his soul could move on into the afterlife.
Not long after, Grundy and Green Lantern shockingly learned that the one responsible for killing
Cyrus Gold was Cyrus Gold himself. In a fit of madness, Cyrus Gold had committed suicide
in Slaughter Swamp in the mid 1890s. Unable to forgive himself, in that moment, Grundy
received a Black Lantern Ring, becoming a Black Lantern during the Blackest Night events. With
the truth revealed, and because the Black Lanterns were dead and without souls, Cyrus Gold's soul
was pulled into Hell, and Grundy was killed for the final time when Bizarro flew him into
the sun, destroying Grundy's body and the Black Lantern Ring. In post-Flashpoint continuity,
the Earth-2 version of Solomon Grundy was a simple laborer whose wife committed suicide
after Grundy's boss molested her, resulting in Grundy killing his boss before he, too,
committed suicide. Grundy was later reborn as a swamp-thing-like Avatar of Decay and Champion
of the Gray. Alan Scott, newly made the Avatar of Life and Champion of the Green on Earth-2,
imprisoned where there would be no life for him to drain. On Earth 1, Solomon Grundy continued
his cycle of death and zombie resurrection. Powers-wise, Solomon Grundy possesses incredible
strength and durability, often capable of lifting up to 100 tons, though his strength varies
from incarnation to incarnation, along with his intelligence. In a majority of cases, though,
he's mindless and can only recite the Solomon Grundy nursery rhyme. Grundy is able to regenerate
rapidly if near swamp matter, and he can reattach limbs if they are removed. If limbs are detached,
they can move independently of his body. Because he has no vital organs, he cannot be killed
by conventional means, and even if he is destroyed, he will eventually return to life in the waters
of Slaughter Swamp. And that's Solomon Grundy. With those powers, how the hell did he get
choked out with a bow string by a green arrow? Bad writing? That's what I thought. Okay, let's
do some bad writing of our own as we get into this duel episode. Because now that we got
their histories and abilities out of the way, we're gonna speculate on how one of the 1,000
simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not our speculation, but it's
fun to imagine how this fight could play out. We don't set any rules for this match other
than the characters don't know anything about each other going in, except that the other
character is a threat that needs to be put down. And we say that they start off about 50 meters
apart in an environment that has no bearing on the match itself because we don't take stats
for the environment. Plus certain characters have advantages in some environments over others
and we want them to win on their own merits. So let's get into it. Solomon Grundy and Werewolf
by Night meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? Alright, I'm gonna say Werewolf by Night goes
first because Solomon Grundy is just too damn dumb to go first. So with his blood curdling
howl, werewolf is gonna dash on all fours toward Grundy and just slash him with supernatural
speed and Grundy before the dude even realizes what the heck's going on he doesn't even know
the match has started he's gonna look down and find that one of his arms is gone just slashed
clean right off just gone yep okay so you know Grundy he's gonna look down at his arm on the
ground he's just gonna pick it up and then just chuck that sucker like real hard right at werewolf
And in mid flight, like this arm, the hand is going to form a fist. So werewolf gets clocked
like from a far distance, right in the snout. And it just knocks him to the ground. Dude,
you don't think canines know how to play fetch like this is what they do. So like werewolf
doesn't get knocked to the ground like he leaps up and he just snatches Grundy's arm out of
the air, like a stick that's being thrown at him. And then with the arm in his mouth, he's
just going to like shake it really hard, like a chew toy. ripping it to pieces. Okay, except
that the arm, like while it's in werewolf's mouth, it's just gonna like bend at the elbow
and its hand is gonna reach werewolf's throat and just choke him out, all right? And while
werewolf is getting choked out, Grundy, he's been walking toward him and he's gonna grab
werewolf by the scruff of his neck and then just slam him into the ground repeatedly like
a rag doll. Dude, that is animal abuse. You sicko. He's a villain. He's not above it. Wait.
Werewolf's gonna let out a yelp and uh, he's gonna slash off Grundy's other arm that's slamming
him on the ground and then the hand that's grabbing Werewolf by the throat, he's gonna slash at
that too and just turn that hand into tiny bits. So Grundy now has no arms and one of the arms
has no hand. Jeez. How about that? Alright, so Grundy, you know, he's probably pretty angry
by this, he's enraged. So he's gonna kick Werewolf away. And while he does that, the arm with
the still good hand that's gonna crawl up his body and reattach itself to his shoulder. Okay?
Oh wow. And then with that hand, he's gonna reattach the other arm, you know, which he
may not have a stump for a hand, but it'll grow back and heal over time. While Grundy's like
taking all this time while he's busy reattaching his limbs, Werewolf like stealthily stalked
around the battlefield so that he's behind Grundy, who's now like his prey. And Werewolf is just
gonna pounce onto Grundy's back. and like slash across his face just turning his nose and mouth
and eyes to ribbons and turning him completely blind. Geez! I'm gonna say, the werewolf can't
rip out both eyes, you know, Granny's gonna grab one of werewolf's hands before that can
happen, and he's just gonna crush the bones in that hand to gravel, like in his fist. Whoa.
And then he's just gonna slam werewolf to the ground beneath him and just start stomping
on him with his feet, like, turning him into wolf jelly. Wolf jelly? Grundy doesn't know
what he's stomping, you know, he can barely see shit. His face is all fucked up. So he
thinks that he's stomping the wolf into jelly, but really werewolf, he's going to slip away
before he gets stomped just in time and he's going to bite at Solomon Grundy's Achilles
tendon. Just, he's going to rip that whole back of his ankle off with his teeth. So Grundy
can't walk now and he just falls to the floor. He's a zombie. You think Grundy like wouldn't
walk on a stomped foot? He's made of like decayed swamp matter. So I disagree. I don't think
it makes him fall or really, really even slow him down. Like he's not about that. So while
standing still with his superior reach, Grundy's just gonna grab werewolf like an action figure
with his good hand and with his superior strength, he's just gonna squeeze and snap werewolf's
spine like a toothpick with a loud crack and now werewolf is paralyzed. Damn! That's, well,
I mean, okay. If the werewolf is paralyzed, it's only from the waist down, right? Otherwise
he'd be dead. Um, so the werewolf is still in his grasp, but he's like fucking going into
full wolf mode. You know, he's like super furious and with his good claw, the one that's not
broken, he's going to slash at Grundy's throat, just slicing the whole head from Grundy's body
clean off, sending it flying through the air and like landing with a sick thud. And, uh,
it must be Saturday because Solomon Grundy is dead. Match over. And eventually werewolf was
just going to heal from all his wounds. Except you didn't suspect this during this whole time.
Grundy's other hand that was torn up has now grown back and his arm that's holding werewolf
stretched out. So, you know, the werewolves just slashing get air and can't reach Grundy's
head. You know, with Grundy's newly grown hand, he's going to reach into his decaying body
and pull out a knife made of silver. What he's going to plunge into werewolves hearts. killing
him instantly. What the fuck? You can't just have Grundy literally pull a silver weapon
from his ass and try to win that way. Like what is that? Dude, you never know what kind of
trash and treasure you're gonna find in the swamp. You can't claim that. Silver in the
swamp? You think people are just dropping silver in the swamp? Maybe? I mean, I don't know.
Oh my god. I guess it was kind of a clever way to try to introduce silver into this match.
I mean in the video game Injustice, like he has knives and even like a whole tombstone
that he pulls out of his body. It's pretty cool. Really? Yeah. Oh, I guess I've never played
as Grundy in Injustice. I don't remember that, but he regularly just has random shit in his
body. I mean, I've never seen it in the comics, but sure. There's some precedent. I mean, his
body is made up of stuff from the swamp. Okay. Well, we'll go ahead and end the match there.
Either Grundy gets his head chopped off by werewolves claws. or Grundy pulls a silver knife from
his ass and stabs werewolf. It was from his torso. He's not pulling anything out of his
ass. We'll go ahead and input the stats on these characters into our simulation runner and come
out with a winner. We'll be right back.
Okay, so going into this match, I knew that Grundy was going to be really high in several
stat categories. Yeah, I could pretty much concede right away that I knew Solomon Grundy was going
to be really high in durability, strength, and damage. And he was much higher than Werewolf
by night, but also maybe not quite as much as people would think because his powers are variable.
Yeah, pretty much everywhere I looked across the internet, they did bring up the fact that...
His strength levels varied from incarnation to incarnation whenever he was reborn. Sometimes
Batman can hurt him. Sometimes Superman couldn't. So I had a really hard time giving him max
stats in certain categories like strength, knowing that there are points in time when he was weaker
than that. So I had to sort of average it. He's still on the higher end, just not at max second
to max, basically. Yeah. But where Solomon Grundy was higher in durability, strength and damage,
Werewolf by Night had him beat in speed, intellect, and perception due to his enhanced senses.
Yeah, intellect was a big one. Solomon Grundy is known for not being bright. He is a mindless
zombie a majority of the time. There's been a number of instances where he's been highly
intelligent, but it's extremely rare. Surprisingly, we gave Solomon Grundy the higher range stat,
if only because his limbs are still operable from a distance. Whereas werewolf by night
has basically no range. He doesn't like shoot anything out or throw anything. I think what
surprised me the most was how durable werewolf by night was. I thought Grundy was going to
totally stomp werewolf by night in terms of durability, but I didn't know werewolf by night
was fully regenerative. Yeah, one time Deadpool cut off his head and it grew back because Deadpool
didn't use silver weapons. But with the stats put in and the simulations run, Jonathan, who
do you think is going to come out on top? I think Grundy is going to come out on top. I
just think he's so much stronger. He could do much more damage. And, you know, a lot of people
agree with me, according to our Instagram poll, 74% of you think that Solomon Grundy is going
to take this match. Well, are they right? Or I'm pretty sure they're right. Let's find out.
The winner between Solomon Grundy and Werewolf by Night is. Werewolf by Night. What? This
may be an upset. but we have the data to prove it. By how much? Werewolf by Night actually
won 562 of the matches over Solomon Grundy. Now Grundy had the advantage in durability,
strength, damage, and range, but Werewolf by Night was more evasive and agile. He had greater
speed, had greater perception and intelligence. The match came really close, but in the end
it was Werewolf by Night that scored higher in the simulations. I'm never quite sure how
to... deduce who's going to win when one character is very well balanced and another character
is not. It goes both ways and I guess this time it went towards werewolf by knight. I thought
it was going to be a closer match than this if werewolf by knight did win. I'm actually
surprised by these results because I mean, Solomon Gerdie, he's like the Hulk almost. Yeah, but
not a smart Hulk. I mean, no one likes smart Hulk. He also didn't get high marks in fighting
either, whereas werewolf by knight, you know, is like a seasoned experienced Solomon Grundy
kind of has to start over from the beginning every time he's reborn. That's fair. Damn it.
I guess it is a Saturday. On a Tuesday. Sorry to all the Solomon Grundy fans out there, but
also not really. That does it for this duel. Let us know what you guys thought about the
results by writing to us at dyna or by visiting us on Instagram or Twitter. You can find links
to all of our accounts by checking out our show notes or visiting our website dynamicduel.com.
And on our site, you could also find a link to our Patreon page where we offer ad free
episodes of this show, bonus content, including top 10 episodes and bloopers, access to our
Discord chat server, and the exclusive opportunity to get our Infinity Crisis Marvel vs. DC deck
building card game. It's a lot of fun. Again, check out patreon.com slash dynamic duel right
after this episode. It's linked in our show notes and our lowest tier is only $2 a month.
In our next episode, We're going back to the reviews. The DC animated film Batman and Superman
Battle of the Super Sons gets released this week. So we're going to go ahead and watch
it and review it for you guys. Yeah, I kind of wish that Marvel and DC didn't dump all
of their content at the end of the year. I feel like they did this last year as well. But I'm
looking forward to the movie. So I'll let you know what we thought about it next week. But
that does it for this episode. We wanna give a big thanks to our executive producers, Ken
Johnson, Jon Storosky, Zachary Hepburn, Miggy Mathengian, Brendan Estergaard, Nathaniel Wagner,
Levi Yeaton, Austin Wazilowski, AJ Dunkerley, and Scott Camacho for helping make this podcast
possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers.