

MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS  HON ALEXANDER DOWNER, MP



TRANSCRIPTION: PROOF COPY E & OE

DATE:   11 January 2006

TITLE:  Doorstop, Four Seasons Hotel, Sydney



MINISTER DOWNER:  Well, a couple of things of things I want to say today.  First of all, as the host of the ministerial component of the Asia Pacific Partnership - and Mr  Macfarlane is the host of the business component of it - I just want to say that we’re delighted  that the meeting is taking place.

This is a great opportunity for countries that represent 50% of global GDP, and 50% of the  world’s population and around 50% of the world’s greenhouse emission to get together and  address some of the core issues that need to be addressed in order to make sure that a greater  contribution is made to dealing with the problem of climate change, as well as clean energy.

Our ambition through this meeting is to bring together these key countries in the Asia Pacific  region, including India, and to complement what has been done in Kyoto. We’re not, of  course, in the business here of trying to compete with Kyoto, and certainly we don’t want in  any way to undermine the work that’s been done in the Kyoto, in the context of the Kyoto  Protocol or through the United Nations framework mechanism.  Whatever views we may as  Australians have about that, this meeting isn’t anything to do with trying to undermine other  initiatives.  It’s to do with trying to complement and build better outcomes in terms of the  addressing the issue of clean energy and of course climate change.

All of the countries involved want to see their economies continue to grow.  They all  understandably want to be able to give their people jobs; they all understandably aspire to  higher living standards, but they all have environmental responsibilities that they want to meet  as well. And the great challenge here is going to be work through ways, including with the  private sector, not just by governments alone, but working with the private sector to try to  achieve those various objectives.  So, it’s a very important meeting.  It’s the first meeting.   There will of course be a lot of work that will flow from this meeting, and we’ll have more to  say about that at the end.

Can I just make one other comment on a completely different topic - and, well actually I want  to make two comments on two different topics, unrelated to climate change - the first of them  is in relation to Iran. The Australian Government is very concerned that the Iranian  Government has now proceeded with removing the seals so that it can proceed with the  research projects in relation to uranium enrichment; and uranium enrichment of course is  necessary in order to move towards the production of nuclear weapons.

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This is in defiance of the very strongly held wishes of the international community and of the  determined efforts by the European Union, particularly the three key countries in the  European Union that have been working on this issue - Britain, France, and Germany. But  Australia joins those countries in expressing our great concern about this development.  We as  a country have been a long campaigner for nuclear non-proliferation.  Our government  introduced into the United Nations General Assembly the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty  back in September 1996, and we don’t want to see any further proliferation of nuclear  weapons anywhere on earth.  And, we are very concerned about this development, and we  will be working with our partners - the members of the Board of Governors at the  International Atomic Energy Agency - over the next few days to work through a strategy for  responding to this development.

The last thing I want to say is that I’m very sad to report that there has been a very serious  accident in Egypt in which a number of Australians have been involved.  They are Australians  from, I think Victoria and Queensland, and it’s possible that there may have been some  fatalities in a bus accident just outside of Cairo.  Our Ambassador is on the scene and doing  what he can to try to assist, including with the Egyptian authorities, and we’ll have more  information in relation to this accident as we get it passed to us from Cairo.  But, we’re very  concerned that Australians could have been very seriously hurt or possibly that there could be  Australian fatalities.

Okay.  Happy to answer any questions.

REPORTER: Mr Downer, was the European Union refused observer status at this meeting;  and if so, why?

MINISTER DOWNER:  No, we’ve said, look, we just want to have the - and I’ve  explained this to the European Commission; they’ve not, they’ve not made strong  representations in relation to this; I think they’ve been quite understanding.

We want to have the initial meeting just to get this whole process going, and we’ll obviously  be giving all interested countries - not just the European Union, but the European  Commission, and interested members of the European Union - but countries like Canada and  New Zealand and so on that have a real interest in this process, we’ll be giving them very full  briefings afterwards.

And the question of observers is something that we’ll be discussing at the meeting.  I mean,  we don’t have any in-principle objection to there being observers in the future, but we just  want to get the first meeting going, and I think the European Union and others have been  entirely understanding of that.

REPORTER: Do you see this partnership as expanding down the track…

MINISTER DOWNER:  It could do, yeah.  I mean, I have an open mind about that - an  open mind about both observers and indeed future members.  And we need to talk amongst  ourselves about it.  But, certainly the challenge here is to get it going, and that’s, it’s all  unfolding very well, very satisfactorily, but, yeah, how we will work with other countries in

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the context of the work we’re doing through the partnership, that’s something we’ll need to  talk about with each other.

REPORTER:  Why won’t the partnership commit to absolute overall reductions in  greenhouse emissions, or targets for that, when ultimately that’s the only measure of success  for any…

MINISTER DOWNER: Well, I, of course as you know, under Kyoto there is not going  to be a reduction in greenhouse emissions either.  I mean to say, let’s just try to put things into  some degree of perspective.

I think there’s being quite a lot of misleading argument in relation to Kyoto, which has led a  number of people to think that Kyoto’s some sort of a solution to greenhouse emissions.  As a  matter of fact, under Kyoto, emissions will increase - assuming all of those countries that  have signed up to targets meet those targets - and at the moment only two of them are on track  to do so - emissions will increase during the period 1990 to 2008/12 by around 40%.  So,  we’re not talking about any emissions reductions under the Kyoto procedure.

But, look, in relation to the partnership, what we’re aiming to do is to try to reconcile the  objectives of making sure people can continue to aspire to higher living standards; that people  are able in the future to get jobs, in the way they’ve been able to in the past; but at the same  time that we are able to supply energy which is increasingly clean; increasingly  environmentally friendly, and increasingly responsible; which over time will lead to a  reduction in the greenhouse problem, because this…

REPORTER: …going to measure that?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well, that’ll be perfectly clear.  It’s easily measured.

REPORTER: Foreign Minister, Energy Secretary, [indistinct]?  Do you think that’s a  realistic proposition [inaudible]?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well it’s not quite true to say it’s not been done, companies  have a variety of different strategies: some companies, including energy companies, have very  clear strategies - environmental strategies.

REPORTER:  [Inaudible]?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well overall globally, I’m answering the question and I do my  best.  The - if you don’t like the answer that’s just too bad.

Look, the point here is that individual companies have to develop their individual strategies,  we’re not trying to run some kind of police state here, individual companies develop their  individual strategies.  Many companies have seen it in their best interests to develop  responsible environmental policies and they obviously advertise those environmental policies.   And I can think of energy companies out there, as well as other companies, that do that.

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And so, no, I think this is an issue for the international community, this is - obviously the  reason for this meeting is so that we can address these issues and because these issues do need  to be addressed, we wouldn’t be having the meeting if we didn’t think these were issues.  And  I think the fact is that companies understand - or increasingly the corporate sector around the  world understands that it needs to take a responsible position in relation to these issues.

REPORTER: Sam Bodman also said that there needed to be a greater role for nuclear power,  and a debate about that, although he sounded a note of caution about Australia possibly in the  future selling uranium to China and said that there needed to be security arrangements around  that, particularly in the wake of September 11.  What do you - what’s your response to those  comments?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well I agree with all of that, as a matter of fact, I’ll tell you in  what way I do: first of all I do think there needs to be continual discussion about the benefits  and costs of nuclear power and I’ve said that on occasions in the past.  Obviously nuclear  power is greenhouse-friendly and that needs to be taken into consideration when the  aspirations of countries in terms of increasing their energy consumption are taken into  account, I mean to think about clean energy and nuclear power generates clean energy.

There are other issues of course in terms of disposal which need to be thought through as  well.  But I definitely think there needs to be a substantial debate about this and I think - well,  as a matter of fact, I think there is a substantial debate about it.

The second thing I’d say in relation to uranium exports to China is that we are in the process  of negotiating with China a Nuclear Safeguards Agreement.  If we can reach a satisfactory  conclusion, that is if we can reach an agreement with China which is consistent with the  agreements we have with a number of other countries, including nuclear weapons states, for  the export of uranium then we would, under those circumstances, export uranium to China.

As yet we haven’t concluded the negotiations so it’s a bit hypothetical, but we hope that we  can successfully conclude those negotiations but we’re not planning to have lower standards  in relation to safeguards for China than we have for other countries.

REPORTER:  [Inaudible]?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well I read an article from The Sydney Morning Herald today  and thought, well, there we are.  Those negotiations - I met with the Indonesian Foreign  Minister a month ago and amongst a number of issues we talked about we talked about his  plan for a framework agreement and security between Australia and Indonesia.  But we have  got nowhere near concluding those negotiations, we’re not on the threshold of concluding  those negotiations.  I hope that we’ll conclude those negotiations during the course of this  year, that’s my aspiration and I think I could speak for the Indonesian Foreign Minister and  say that he has that same kind of a point of view.

Now in relation to territorial integrity, well obviously we both - with that agreement or  without that agreement - we respect each other’s territorial integrity.

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When I was last in Jakarta last month I had a - no, actually, it was in Kuala Lumpur where I  met with the Foreign Minister.  But in Kuala Lumpur, in the context of the East Asia Summit,  I said to the Foreign Minister that we needed to do substantially more in relation to the illegal  fishing that was occurring in Australian waters by Indonesians.

And as a result of that - and he was very responsive to that - as a result of that meeting  Senator Macdonald, the Fisheries Meeting[sic], went up to Jakarta and they, I think, had a  pretty useful meeting.  Now we need to implement some of the decisions that we’ve been  making and particularly in terms of getting information out to the fishing villages in Indonesia  to stop them coming into Australian Territorial Waters and ensuring that Indonesian  fishermen understand what the penalties are.

So, you know, that’s a work in progress and we need to do a good deal more because it’s still  a substantial problem that I’m worried about.

REPORTER: What about illegal whaling in Australian waters, Mr Downer? Have you  discussed that with the Japanese delegation [indistinct]…

MINISTER DOWNER: I haven’t met the Japanese delegation…

REPORTER: Will you be seeking [indistinct]…

MINISTER DOWNER: I will, we’re always talking to them about…

REPORTER: …about stopping the illegal whaling that’s happening in territorial  [indistinct]…?

MINISTER DOWNER: We’re always talking to them about whaling.  Of course  Australia’s position in relation to whaling, I think, is very clearly and forcefully put,  particularly by Senator Campbell.  I mean there’s no question about Australia’s position in  relation to whaling, for a very long time we’ve campaigned against whaling and in support of  an international ban on whaling.  And we regret the activities of the Japanese and their  continual whaling programs that they have.

In relation to Antarctic waters I would draw people’s attention to the complexity of the  Antarctic Treaty.  Under the Antarctic Treaty, which is a treaty which was concluded in 1959,  there are countries that are claimant states to Antarctica and Australia is one of them.  But the  issue of those claims and the acceptance of those claims is one that’s left open.  So there are  some countries that acknowledge those claims and there are some that aren’t - that don’t.  For  example the United States doesn’t accept those claims, so this whole issue of territorial waters  is mired in legal complexity because of the way the 1959 - I think it was 1959 - Antarctic  Treaty is written.

REPORTER:  It  is  embarrassing  to think, Mr Downer, to…

MINISTER DOWNER: Embarrassing?

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REPORTER: …think that on the very day that this historic conference on the environment  was opened up an Environment Minister’s brother is being prosecuted for chopping down  trees?

MINISTER DOWNER: I don’t know anything about it.

REPORTER:  Minister,  renewable energy is clean and safe, why won’t the Federal  Government extend the [indistinct] at the same time as pursuing something like CCS, which  will be very expensive?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well, you’ll have to ask Senator Campbell about that.

REPORTER: Well, can’t you answer that now?  You’re speaking about this climate change  conference which is [inaudible]?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well we’re certainly - well you say it’s not doing anything  about renewables, I mean, we…

REPORTER:  [Inaudible]

MINISTER DOWNER: Gee, you guys are incredibly opinionated, you, well, go out  and…

REPORTER:  [Inaudible]

MINISTER DOWNER: Okay, next question and it’s the last.

REPORTER: What money is being put on the table to fund [inaudible]?

MINISTER DOWNER: We’ll be announcing that in terms of Australia, I mean other  countries can announce what they like but we’ll be making an announcement in relation to  that tomorrow morning.

REPORTER: Will the ministerial meeting address targets in any form, Kyoto or not?

MINISTER DOWNER: No, we don’t support targets, we don’t support that system,  that’s Australia’s view.  Some of the countries here do.  Let’s not misunderstand who is at this  meeting.  The Australian Government has not supported the way the targeting system has  been worked out for Kyoto, and we’ve made that perfectly clear.  Of course if there were  global targets that would be a very different proposition from a system where targets are only  set for Annex One countries. Now that’s a debate for another time, not a debate for today.

But not everybody agrees with that argument.  I mean the Japanese, the Chinese and the  Indians have all ratified the Kyoto Protocol, not of course that China and India have targets,  and they have made it perfectly clear they’ll never - they say they’ll never accept targets.  I  don’t know what we can say about ‘never’ but they’ve said that, that they won’t accept

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targets, but Japan does.  And the United States, as you know, doesn’t.  But I mean our  position is well known and perfectly clear [indistinct].

REPORTER: What about industry targets as opposed to country targets?

MINISTER DOWNER: Well I think I’ve sort of answered that question already.  Okay?   Thank you.



