22 January 2003, Mayo Electorate Office, Stirling, South Australia

Minister for Foreign Affairs, Alexander Downer

Doorstop Interview



Downer: In the wake of the Bali bombings, the Australian Government has been  looking at ways of improving the dissemination of our travel advisories, so that more  Australians have the opportunity to read them and be aware of their existence when

they travel overseas.  So we've decided on three initiatives.  The first of them is to run  a public relations campaign in a number of places, obviously through the media and  also in airports, post offices and passport offices drawing people's attention to travel  advisories and the importance of reading travel advisories.  We think an advertising  campaign is necessary because an insufficient number of Australians are aware of the  travel advisories, although of course since Bali the travel advisories have become  more well known through the media and discussion about them.  But nevertheless we  think a promotional campaign is an important part of getting people to understand the  existence of travel advisories and their whereabouts.  Secondly, in terms of  dissemination we are intending to establish a series of touch screen travel advice  kiosks in a number of places by June, at least in all of the Australian passport offices.   So if somebody goes to get a passport, and my department sells about one million  passports a year, that's a lot of passports.  When people go into the passport office, of  course not all the people who get passports get them through the passports office, but  when they go into the passport office they'll have a touch screen facility there with  travel advisories.  We're also looking at the possibility of putting these touch screens  into airports as well as part of the broader dissemination campaign.  And thirdly, we're  working with the travel industry to ensure that travel agents are drawing people's  attention more effectively than has been the case up until now, to travel advisories.   We have information that that isn't always the case.  We certainly wouldn't pass  legislation, even if constitutionally we could to require travel agents to give people  travel advisories but it's important that when people go to a travel agent to buy their  tickets that the travel agents who do have the travel advisories sent to them, draw  them to people's attention.  And I think through consultation with the travel industry  we'll have some good success there so this is a series of initiatives designed to ensure  Australians are still better aware of travel advisories, of what the risks are as they  travel around, particularly in the context of the threat of terrorism it's important that  every effort be made to ensure people do have easy access to travel advisory  information.

Journalist: Should travel agents be compelled to provide this information?

Downer:   Well I don't think it's very practical to introduce legislation to force people  to give out travel advisories.  I just don't think it would work in practice.  I think the  travel industry has made that point on a number of occasions that it wouldn't be  practical.  It would be impossible to police.  I just think, you know if you are going to  introduce legislation you want legislation that doesn't make the law look an ass - and  I think if you were to do that that would be the case.   Anyway I have some faith in  the travel industry that they would be happy to ensure that travel advisories are better  disseminated than has been than had been the case up until the Bali bombing - they're  happy to do that.  When people get to the airports at the moment, there are no travel

advisories available to them.  The only way you can get a travel advisory at an airport  once you get there is by going to an internet site, and that's not always easily done at  an airport.  So they will be much more readily available at airports that's the important

thing.

Journalist: Is this part of the “be alert not alarmed programme” or something  different?

Downer:   Well it's taking into account the events of last year, the Bali bombing  importantly but the events of last year, the various terrorist incidents, not all of them  have involved Australians but the terrorist incidents which have occurred around the  world.  The Government gets information from time to time as you all know about the  security situation in different countries.  We do publish that information as best we  possibly can through travel advisories, and one of the things that struck me  anecdotally, at least up until the Bali bombing, I don't think that an awful lot of people

ever bothered to consult a travel advisory before they visited another country and I  think we need to encourage people to look at travel advisories before they do go  overseas.

Journalist: With these improvements are you saying the system wasn't up to scratch?

Downer:   Well look any system can always be improved and I think we always need  to be looking at ways of improving the system, a system that had been in place for a  dozen years or so.  We have seen since September the 11th 2001 a big increase in  interest in travel advisories and the number of hits on the Department's website have  increased very very substantially since September 11 2002.  But I think we just have  to keep looking at new and innovative ways of ensuring people are aware of the  information that we publish.  And we'll put in place these measures and that's not say  it precludes further measures as we think of them or come forward with ideas in the  fullness of time.  We'll obviously reflect on those.

Journalist: Given that a unilateral strike is more likely, how is the Government going  to win the support of 70 % of Australians opposed to any US-led pre-emptive strike  on Baghdad?

Downer:   Well it's an enormously hypothetical question.  Senator Hill is going to  make some announcements early this afternoon and I don't want to cut across those so  I'll leave them to him.  But I'll just make one point and that is that we have all along  been supportive of the United Nations disarming Saddam Hussein consistent with the  United Nations Security Council resolutions.  We hope that that will still be done.  We  are however reaching a very sensitive phase in all of this.  Hans Blix, the head of  UNMOVIC, the head of the United Nations inspections regime will be reporting to  the Security Council on the 27th of January whose report will reflect his views on the  degree of cooperation there has been between Iraq and the inspectors.  Now he has  compiled, he complained on the ninth of January that the Iraqis were not cooperating  effectively but he has made a visit to Iraq, with Mohammed El-Baradei, the Head of  the International Atomic Energy Agency, so they've had discussions.  We'll see what  sort of a report he provides to the Security Council, what sort of information he has,  what he has to say about the various things that they have found and have been  reported through the media and what he has to say about the Iraqi's capacity to  provide the United Nations with the information the United Nations needs.  All of  these processes have to be gone through and as Kofi Annan said it is important that

there is enormous international pressure on Iraq to comply with Security Council  resolutions and to disarm.  If that disarmament can happen through peaceful means  then that will be a very good outcome.

Journalist: France is talking about vetoing.  What does Australia say about that?

Downer:   The circumstances haven't arisen where such a resolution would be put to  the Security Council.  And I really do think it's very important people understand the  process.  Rushing into arguments about unilateral strikes, vetoes, all this sort of thing,  is a little premature because we don't know.  Even I, with all the information that I  have available to me as a Foreign Minister can't precisely predict how this is going to  play out because at the very heart of it is the relationship between Saddam Hussein  and his regime in Iraq and the United Nations.  Now the United Nations is  complaining that Saddam Hussein and his regime have not been very cooperative and  they made that perfectly clear on the 9th of January, but what success Hans Blix has  had during his visit to Baghdad, what changes there will be in Iraqi strategy, we will  just have to wait and see.  There will be a very important report, but it's an interim  report as well, by the United Nations officials to the Security Council on the 27th of  January and all these questions about how this issue will play out, frankly they can't  be specifically answered at this stage because we don't know precisely what

conclusions the United Nations inspectors are going to draw.

Journalist: France and Germany obviously don't think it's premature, they're  discussing it right now, Germany says they're not going to go, France is talking about  vetoing it is it….

Downer:   Well that's the way media report these things.  Every country has their own  way of approaching this issue.  The important thing about the Australian  Government's approach is we've been always very up front with the Australian public  about it. We've explained over a long period of time the gravity of this issue.  We've  explained our view that we don't want to see, over the years, Saddam Hussein defy the  United Nations and just make a laughing stock of the United Nations and build up a  massive stockpile of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.  We hope that this  matter can be resolved peacefully.  We still hope it can be resolved peacefully.  What  the German Government said during the German election and since and what the  French Government says - that's entirely a matter for them.

Journalist: Is Australia influenced by the views of countries like France and  Germany?

Downer:   We're influenced by our national interest, that is ultimately the determinant  of our position, not necessarily statements by other governments.  We listen to what  others have to say - of course, politely, diplomatically, with respect but in the end our  judgments must be based on our assessments of the global security environment -  What we can do to contribute to the global security environment and to ensure that in  this specific case, in the case of Iraq, we want to see Iraq disarm, consistent with the  demands of the international community.  We hope that can be done peacefully. We  have no illusions that this is a difficult issue though and we have said that for a very  long time and we have often been criticized for saying it. But we have been very up  front with the public about it all along and I think the public deserves to have us be up  front.

Journalist: Do you find France and Germany's statements opposing the American  position unhelpful to the image of international unity?

Downer:   Look I think it's too early again to draw hard and fast conclusions about  this, of course different governments will have different positions, well it is very rare  you get all the governments of the world expressing one view on one big issue. This is  a controversial issue, there are a lot of domestic issues at play for all governments - I  don't just mean the French and the German governments Governments are obviously  reflecting on how to manage the issue.

But I am making, I think, the point that we really do want to make. That the end game  on the issue of disarming Iraq has not arrived yet Let us hope that the end game has a  peaceful outcome. It that is the case, the way the international community responds is  obvious. If it is not a peaceful outcome, how an outcome which leads to conflict

arises, it's not clear how that would happen yet. So I think the main thing for us is to  maintain the pressure on Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis - that they should fully  cooperate and work with the United Nations, not try to hide and obfuscate, to duck  and to weave as has happened over the last 12 years. If there is full cooperation, if  there is complete disarmament by Iraq, then it will be a great success for the United  Nations and war will have been averted.

Our position is that we don't want to get into hypothesizing more than is entirely  necessary.

Journalist: Well the problem is that if France vetoes and the United States decides to  go, then they will be in contravention of the United Nations and does Australia go  too?

Downer:   Well actually you can't say any of that, I mean, you don't know what  would be vetoed, you don't know what the resolution would be, you don't know the  circumstances of the resolution, and would France veto a resolution of wouldn't they?  I mean nobody has any idea. They haven't said they would definitely veto any  resolution because the circumstances haven't arisen. I think you just have to wait and  see - if there's to be another Security Council resolution, or what would be the  circumstances that lead to that Security Council resolution, what would be the attitude  of the Russian Government or the French Government or the American Government  to that? We don't know because we don't know what the resolution would be. So  nobody's vetoed any resolution at this stage, nobody's made any decision to go to war  but everybody has made the decision that maximum pressure should be placed on  Saddam Hussein to comply with Security Council resolutions.  Maximum pressure  should be placed on him.  And there's no doubt that the military buildup is placing  enormous pressure on him and we hope that will work and that there will be no need  for any conflict.

Journalist: In East Timor, do you believe that Australian peacekeepers are doing  enough against the alleged incursion of Indonesian backed forces to protect the local  people there?

Downer:   Well there are an awful lot of assumptions in that question.  I mean I  noticed yesterday, it was drawn to my attention by the media that Mr Rudd, who's the  Opposition Spokesman on Foreign Affairs, had written me a letter making claims that  the Australian Government had refused Australian peacekeepers support for security

in East Timor during the early part of January and that the East Timorese had made a  request and we'd refused that request.  This is completely untrue. Nothing of the sort  happened.

Journalist: Mr Ramos Horta is calling today for greater Australian activity and  support for local (inaudible)

Downer:   The peacekeeping force isn't an Australian peacekeeping force.  There are  Australians who play a very big role in the peacekeeping force.  This is a United  Nations peacekeeping force and the important thing is that the United Nations  peacekeeping force continues to be effective.  I do think it has been effective.  There  have been a couple of incidents since January which have been of concern to us.  The  East Timorese wanted the East Timorese Defence Force to deal with one of those  incidents, which they did, but this is a matter between the United Nations and the East  Timorese.  This isn't a matter that directly involves the Australian Government.  We  maintain a substantial presence in the United Nations peacekeeping operation. We  don't have any evidence, as Mr Rudd claims, that Kopassus are organizing militia  incursions from West Timor into East Timor.  I mean Mr Rudd on the one hand  criticises the Government for not having a stronger relationship with Indonesia, and  on the other he says that the Indonesian Army, or an element of the Indonesian Army  is responsible for militia activity in East Timor.  We don't have that information.  We  don't have evidence that they have been involved.  We do have concerns about the  activity there has been during January - we've said tat on many occasions and we  think the peacekeeping force is doing a good job.

Journalist: Have there been any requests from East Timor for an extension of the  period of time that the peacekeepers will remain?

Downer:   No there hasn't.  And I met with, in the light of this story that has appeared  in the Australian today and Mr Rudd's letter to me, which I finally got today.  By the  way you should always deliver a letter to somebody before you give it to the media  otherwise the letter looks awfully like a media stunt.  But I met with JosÃÂ© Ramos  Horta on the Friday before last, that's about ten or eleven days ago and no request was  made there to extend the life of the peacekeeping force or to enhance the Australian  involvement in the peacekeeping force.  I don't think that's necessary.

Journalist: back to the travel advisory campaign, any idea of costings on that?

Downer:   Well we have an idea but we haven't finalized the costings but we'll be  looking at several million dollars - it will involve several million dollars of  expenditure.

ENDS……………………………………………………………..22 January 2003



