

Inquiries:  (02) 6277 7500 1

MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS  HON ALEXANDER DOWNER, MP



TRANSCRIPTION: PROOF COPY E & OE

DATE:   11 May 2006

TITLE:  Doorstop, Department of Foreign Affairs, Canberra





QUESTION:  On Monday you’ll be meeting with your Indonesian counterpart in Singapore.

What are you hoping to achieve?



DOWNER:  Well  we’re still  working  on  the details of  that.   It’s  possible  that  we  might  but   we’ll just wait and see.  I’ll be going onto Singapore to make a bilateral visit there.  I’ll be  meeting with my Singapore counterpart and with the Prime Minister, and the senior minister  Goh Choc Tong and others.  So if there’s a chance  of  meeting  up  while I’m there with the  Indonesian Foreign Minister that would be a good plus.  And so that’s something we’re just  working on.  So some of the reporting is possibly running ahead of the final conclusions, but  I’d be happy to do it.

QUESTION:   What are your expectations if that meeting goes ahead?

MR DOWNER: Well if it goes ahead, I think - we need, I’ve said this before - we need  to take the relationship steadily forward again and work to get it back to where it was before  the asylum seekers issue blew up. Look, that’s just going to take a bit of time. It’s important  to  show  a  bit  of  patience  and  just  take  things  step  by  step.  After  the  Secretary  of  my   department  visited  Jakarta,  I  felt  that,  and  I  think  Hissan  Wirujuda  felt  that  the  next  stage   should  be  that  we’d  get  together  at  some  time.  This  might  be  a  convenient  time  to  do  that,   we’ll just have to wait and see. Then at a certain point the Prime Minister and the President  would get together, and I think that’s the way to take things forward -just take them steadily  forward.

QUESTION: What more can Australia do to appease Indonesia?



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MR DOWNER: Well, we’re not trying to appease anybody. I mean, we have our laws  and we will stand by our laws and the way we do things. But, I’ve often made the point, look,  both  Australia  and  Indonesia  have  a  vested  interest  in  a  constructive  bi  lateral  relationship.   They gain a great deal out of their close and strong relationship with Australia and obviously  we gain a lot out of a similarly close and strong relationship with them. So, there are going to  be differences from time to time and those differences can play into the political process and  the  task  for  us  all  is  to  manage  those  differences.  You  can’t  help  it  when  countries  are   neighbours,  I  mean  -  and  I  look  at  the  relationship  between  countries  throughout  East  Asia   and there are situations in their bi lateral relations which are a lot worse than the difficulties  we’ve been having with Indonesia recently - so, it needs to be kept in some perspective.

QUESTION: Minister, are you concerned at all about Indonesia hosting one of the world’s  largest sponsors of terrorism at the moment?

MR DOWNER: Well look, Indonesia and Iran have quite a historic relationship and that  relationship  has  to  be  understood  in  that  context.  It  goes  back  many  many  years  and  they   worked  together  in  the  non-aligned  movement  in  particular.  So,  there  are  sort  of  bonds  of   history there. They’re both predominately Islamic countries and that’s another bond that they  have. So, we don’t need to fear their bi lateral relationship at all. But it’s a matter for them  really.

QUESTION: Minister, what is the Australia’s current position on uranium sales to India and  what position will we take to the nuclear supplies group when that (inaudible)?

MR  DOWNER:  Our  position  hasn’t  changed.  And  I  saw  an  article  in  the  newspaper   today suggesting that our officials had been suggesting to the Indians that we were planning  to  change  policy  and  I’ve  checked  that  out  with  the  officials  cause  the  newspaper  reports

surprised me. The officials have assured me that that’s not correct.

QUESTION:  Has  there  been  any  pressure  from  the  Indians  to  say  look,  we’ll  sign  up  to   everything except the agreement in terms of, we’ll allow inspections and do everything to the  letter except signing it?

MR  DOWNER:  Well  I’ll  answer  your  question  by  putting  to  you  what  their  general   position is - which I suppose you can extrapolate from that - but their general position is that  they will sign up to International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards, but, they will only allow



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inspections  for,  if  you  like,  non-sensitive  or  non-military  reactors.  So  that’s  one  issue.  And   the other is that the Indians have made it clear that they have no intention in the foreseeable  future of signing the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. Now our policy has always been that  we’d be prepared to negotiate nuclear safeguards agreements with countries that have signed  up the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. That is our position and we’ve not indicated to the  Indians  any  planned  change  to  that  position.  What  happened  was  that  our  officials  went  to   India as a result of the visit by our Prime Minister and discussions he had with Prime Minister  Singh.  Those  officials  have  come  back,  they’ve  provided  a  report.  Those  officials  are  also   going to talk to the Americans about the agreement so we have a better understanding of it  all.

QUESTION: With the Americans, is it time for Guantanamo Bay to be closed? We’ve seen  a senior British politician call for exactly that today.

MR DOWNER: Who did?

QUESTION: The Attorney General.

MR  DOWNER:  Lord  Goldsmith,  yes.  Well,  that’s,  I  think,  something  he’s  said  on  a   number of occasions before, but, look that’s a matter for the Americans. I mean, I think how  they  handle  people  who  they  are  especially  concerned  about  is  -  it’s  a  difficult  thing.  You   know,  what  you  can’t  do  is  let  people  who  you  are  very  concerned  may  commit  acts  of   terrorism and kill people out on the streets. And, I can understand that. There’s a war against  terrorism,  and  in  war,  holding  the  enemy  prisoner  of  course,  is  quite  legitimate.  Now,   definitions  of  war  and  some  of  these  questions  are  difficult  questions,  but,  we’ve  been   prepared  to  go  along  with  maintaining  the  facilities  they  have  at  Guantanamo  Bay  and  the   context  of  the  war  against  terrorism.  If  they  make  other  arrangements  that’s  fair  enough.   We’d be prepared to go along with it.

QUESTION: Do you know what has held up the return of the Bosnian body to ..

MR DOWNER: … No, I know nothing about that.

QUESTION: Do you know if there is a suggestion that the Australian Government could be  sued over…



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MR  DOWNER:  ….  I  don’t  know  anything  about  it,  I’m  sorry.  I  think  the  Prime   Minister said earlier today that he would look into it and see if there is anything we could do  to be helpful. We’d obviously like to be helpful if we possibly can to the Bosnians, but, as I  understand it, the body’s back in Kuwait now, so I’m not sure there’s anything much we can

do. It’s really a matter between them and the Kuwaiti authorities.

QUESTION:  On  counter-terrorism,  the Ambassador for that area…

MR DOWNER: .. Our Ambassador?

QUESTION: Yes, has today suggested that Islamic fundamentalism isn’t quite the threat to  Australia that most people believe. What do you make of those comments?

MR DOWNER: Well I haven’t heard what he said and what the context of what he said  was. Obviously it’s something we’re very wary of. I mean, Australians were killed twice in  Bali  by  Islamic  fundamentalists,  we  had  our  Embassy  in  Jakarta  attacked  on  September  9   2004  by  Islamic  fundamentalists  -  although  Australians  weren’t  killed  in  that  attack,   Indonesians  were.  So,  a  lot  of  Australians  have  been  killed  by  Islamic  fundamentalists,  so   we’re  very  wary  of  them.  In  relation  to  an  attack  on  Australian  soil,  well,  as  we  say,  you   should  be  alert  but  not  alarmed.  We  put  in  place  very  sophisticated  series  of  measures,   ranging  from  improving  our  intelligence  capabilities  to  strengthening  the  police  and  border   controls. So, so far so good. But, we’re just not complacent about it.

QUESTION:  Some  West  Papuans are lobbying Senators today over the new asylum seeker  laws. Do you think that’s appropriate and would you encourage your colleagues to back this  through the Senate?

MR DOWNER: I would, I think this is a good change and I would encourage them to  support it, yes.

QUESTION: Are you concerned that there is talk of at least one Senator not (inaudible)?

MR  DOWNER:  Well  I  would  hope  that  all  coalition  Senators  would  support  this   sensible  measure  -  I  think  we’re  got  to  get  the  balance  right.  Obviously  we  want  to  be   humane  and  we  wouldn’t  automatically  send  somebody  who  makes  an  asylum  claim  back   without testing that claim, but, where we actually do that testing - where the assessments are



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made,  that’s  another  question.  I  mean,  to  be  frank  with  you,  we  obviously  don’t  want  the   system that we have to be - we want it to be effective and compassionate, but we don’t want  it  to  be  exploited  for  political  purposes.  So,  you’ve  got  to  get  the  balance  right  here  and  I   think this change helps to keep that balance.

QUESTION: When you meet eventually with your Indonesian counter part, do you expect  to ask for the return of the Ambassador to Australia?

MR DOWNER: Look, it’s up to them. Can I just make the point, because people have  asked  me  before  about  this  -  our  Ambassador  in  Jakarta,  Bill  Farmer,  he  represents  our   interests  and  promotes  our  interests  there  and  so  I  like  to  have  him  there  to  promote  our   interests. The Indonesian Ambassador in Australia promotes Indonesia’s interests and looks  after Indonesians interests and so, look, it’s up to them whether they think it’s a good idea to  have him here or not. I can’t…

QUESTION: … would you like to see him return soon?

MR DOWNER: Well look, it’s entirely up to them. That is entirely up to them.

QUESTION: Minister, back to Guantanamo Bay and the idea that David Hicks might serve  his sentence in Australia. What is the likelihood of that?

MR DOWNER: Well, I mean, he’s not going to serve his sentence in Australia if he’s  acquitted,  he’ll  just  be  released.  I  think  the  sooner  the  military  commission  trial  can  take   place, the better. But, as you know, it’s being held up now because of a couple of appeals that  are going on in the US Supreme Court. I don’t have any timeframe - I think they’re expected  to be completed round the middle of the year, so, the next month or two, but don’t hold me to  that. But we’ve always said we wanted the trial to be conducted as quickly as possible, but  it’s been subject the whole time and - the military commission process is subject to appeals -  to  the  American  civil  courts.  In  any  case,  if  he  were  convicted  under  that  system,  then  it

would be - under the agreement that we’ve now signed with the United States - possible to  serve  out  his  sentence  here  in  Australia,  rather  than  serving  it  in  the  United  States  or  in   Guantanamo Bay. He might prefer to do that. He’d have to make an application of course, but  I would imagine he would make such an application.



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QUESTION:  But  by  signing  the  agreement  Minister,  is  that  the  acknowledgement  that  the   military commission’s a kangaroo court?

MR  DOWNER:  No,  no.  it’s  not  about  the  military  commission,  it’s  about  the   imprisonment. It’s not an acknowledgment that the prison is a kangaroo prison either. It’s just  an  acknowledgement  that  he  may,  as  an  Australian,  prefer  to  serve  his  sentence  in  his  own   country - although, I see he’s trying not to be an Australian but to be a Britain. In any case,  he’ll  continue  to  be  under  our  law  an  Australian.  We  have  prisoner  exchange  arrangements   with  a  lot  of  countries  -  there’s  a  prisoner  exchange  arrangement  with  the  Commonwealth   countries. We have bi lateral prisoner exchange arrangement with Thailand - it doesn’t mean  we think all those countries have kangaroo courts - nothing to do with the courts, it’s to do  with the serving of the custodial sentence. But, it’s easier for them to see their families, their  families  to  get  to  them.  You  know  do  I  think  Australian  prisons  would  be  better  than   American prisons - I haven’t had the displeasure of being in either, so I don’t know.

QUESTION:  And  are  you  concerned  about  reports  of  clashes  between  police  and  armed   civilians in Bougainville?

MR  DOWNER:  I  am.  I  think  the  peace  process  is  working  on  the  whole  very  well  in   Bougainville,  but,  I  have  been  concerned  to  see  those  reports.  I  don’t  think  we  want  to   exaggerate  the  situation  there  -  Bougainville  is  not  falling  apart,  the  peace  process  is  not   collapsing, but it just shows there’s still work to be done there.

QUESTION: It seems there are a number of flashpoints in our region at the moment.

MR DOWNER: Yes, there are quite a lot. Yes, I have to admit, that is true.

QUESTION:  And  is  Australia  playing  any  role  in  trying  to  settle  things  down  in   Bougainville?

MR  DOWNER:  Well  we’ve  been  working  with  people  in  Bougainville  and  in  Papua   New Guinea for a long time of course for years - ten years, more - 13, 14 years, on this issue  of Bougainville and obviously we keep a very close watch on what’s going on there.

ENDS

