

Inquiries:  (02) 6277 7500 1

MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS  HON ALEXANDER DOWNER, MP



TRANSCRIPTION: PROOF COPY E & OE

DATE:   10 May 2006

TITLE:  Doorstop, Sydney

Topics:  Pacific aid, Solomon Islands, Indonesia, Papua, Iran.



QUESTION:  Alexander  Downer,  this  is  a  call  for  action,  not  really  an  action  plan  -  is  it   inevitable that there are going to be failed Pacific States?

MR DOWNER: Look, the Solomon Islands has been pretty much a failed state, but it’s  been  getting  back  on  it’s  feet  -  growing  at  a  bit  over  four  percent  a  year  for  the  last  three   years but I don’t think it is inevitable and I think a combination of things - improvements in  the way the Australian aid programme  works, a more efficient and effective Pacific Islands  Forum  secretariat,  better  work  being  done  by  the  Pacific  community,  and  reports  like  this   which are focussing very much on things like improved governance, infrastructure, as well as  implementation. I think they are all going to help. A lot of these initiatives are controversial  and you find around the Pacific the political class in some countries has people who are very  resistant  to  change  cause  the  status  quo  suited  them  personally.  But  I  think  when  you  go   around  the  Pacific  and  you  talk  to  the  ordinary  people  they  are  enormously  in  favour  of   change and it’s important to think about the great mainstream of the Pacific community and  not just thinking about the political class.

QUESTION:  Is  there  a  fine  line  between  calling  for  good  governance  and  interfering  in   local affairs?

MR  DOWNER:  Well  I  don’t  think  there  is  in  a  way  -  I  think  if  governance  is  bad,   somebody should blow the whistle on it, actually. I get attacked from time to time around the  Pacific for complaining, for example, about the new Police Minister in the Solomon Islands  being a man who has been charged with incitement to start the riots recently. Now, he is in

gaol, he has made two applications for bail, both of those applications have been rejected by  the Magistrate and the High Court - it seems to me it’s the wrong message to be sending to  the ordinary people of the Solomon Islands about political reform and improved governance



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to be appointing a Police Minister who’s in gaol. I can’t see that’s a good message to send out  and I unashamedly hold that view. I’m not going to appoint a Police Minister to the Solomon  Islands - that is up to them, but it’s a free world and I am entitled to a view. I think the view I

express is very much the view of the vast majority of the people of Solomon Islands, let alone  the  people  of  Australia  -  who  surely  would  agree  with  me  -  but  the  people  of the  Solomon   Islands I’m sure would agree with me, and I don’t want to interfere. I’m not going to make  decisions about who is in the governments of countries in the region, but I think we’ve got a  responsibility to call it as we see it.

QUESTION: But is Australia the region’s sheriff?

MR DOWNER:  Well I don’t think I’d use that world, but I mean Australia, inevitably  because it’s such a big country and frankly Australia is an enormously successful country and  a very rich country. Those privileges - if I could call them that - bring with them very great

responsibilities and we do have responsibilities to the countries of the Pacific. It doesn’t make  us popular necessarily, that we are the major aid donor of the region, and some people resent  that. It doesn’t always make us popular when we talk about the importance of good and clean  government and when we complain about things like corruption. But, having said that, I think  we’re  right  and  I  think  we  have  a  responsibility  to  call  it  as  we  see  it,  and  we  have  a   responsibility to help those who are doing a good job and so we do that.

QUESTION: There are fresh allegations which appeared on the ABC tonight of Indonesian  military  (inaudible)  Papuans,  in  response  to  that  earlier  clash  in  March  -  including  one   observer  who  said  that  the  Indonesian  navy  killed  an  asylum  seeker  trying  to  come  to   Australia. Do you have anything to say about that?

MR DOWNER: I don’t know about it, I haven’t seen the report. And to be honest with  you,  you  hear  a  lot  of  claims  from  time  to  time,  and  it’s  important  to  endeavour  to  try  to   verify  them  and  not  just  accept  every  claim  that’s  made  on  face  value.  I’m  not  denying  or   accepting these claims, I simply don’t know about the veracity of them. But I would say to  people, look, try not to get caught up in the politics - the issue here is that of course Indonesia  needs to fulfil its responsibilities to uphold international norms of human rights, and I know  that  the  President  of  Indonesia  and  the  Cabinet  are  very  committed  to  that.  So,  they   understand that - they don’t need to be told that. If some people are breaching those standards  and  those  norms,  then  that’s  something  the  Indonesians  will  need  to  investigate  and  take   action against if they can find evidence.



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QUESTION: Of course it’s very difficult for us to verify those claims given that the media  can’t really get access to Papuans - it’s virtually a no-go zone.

MR DOWNER: Well, that’s something to take up with the Indonesian Government - I  mean that’s not something the Australian Government has sovereignty over.

QUESTION:  The  Iranian  President  is in Indonesia at the moment, and Hassan Wirajuda said  tonight, quote, “there is no doubt that logically we support Iran to develop its nuclear energy  for peaceful purposes”. Do you agree with that?

MR  DOWNER:  Well,  we  haven’t  -  nor  has  the  international  community  -  from  the   International  Atomic  Energy  Agency  and  the  United  Nations  Security  Council  down  -   objected to the whole concept of Iran having a peaceful nuclear programme. Nobody’s ever  said that. The argument with Iran is that it hasn’t fulfilled all of the obligations it should have  fulfilled  for  the  International  Atomic  Energy  Agency  -  obligations  of  transparency  and   accountability.  And  bearing  in  mind  it  has  received  some  negative  reports  from  the   International Atomic Energy Agency. The proposition that - despite the fact there hasn’t been  full disclosure by the Iranians - they’re moving onto enrich uranium - enrich it to the point  where  that  uranium  could  relatively  easily  be  used  for  military  purposes,  including  the   building of nuclear weapons - is a very deep concern of ours. And our point to the Iranians  and  to  anybody  else  who  would  seek  our  view  about  this  is  that  a  lot  of  people  complain   about  lack  of  adherence  to  resolutions  or  lack  of  resolutions  even  from  multi-lateral   organisations, like the International Atomic Energy Agency, or the United National Security  Council. Frankly, the International Atomic Energy Agency and the United Nations Security  Council  have  made  their  positions  crystal  clear  in  relation  to  Iran.  Iran  needs  to  fulfil  its   obligations  to  the  international  community  and  adhere  to  those  resolutions  and  implement   those  resolutions.  If  it  doesn’t,  then  further  resolutions  will  be  passed  through  the  Security   Council and I can only see them being, if I could put it this way, unhelpful to the livelihoods  of the ordinary people of Iran.

QUESTION: Are you concerned though that Iran could be developing a nuclear ally, if you  like, in Indonesia?

MR DOWNER: No. I think the Indonesians frankly will always be very careful on how  they put this case and I don’t think the Indonesians are saying that they reject the resolutions  of the International Atomic Energy Agency or the United Nations Security Council, they’re



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just making a rather general point which can be interpreted anyway you like. So, I don’t have  any particular objections to that.

QUESTION:  And  why  are  you  going  to  meet  your  Indonesian  counter  part  in  a  third   country?

MR  DOWNER:  Well,  no  final  decisions  have  been  made  about  that  and  that’s   something  that  we’re  looking  at  and  I  think  myself  that  it  would  be  a  good  idea  if  we  got   together  before  too  long  and  I  think  he  probably  shares  that  view  and  talk  through  some   difficulties  that  we’ve  obviously  had  in  the  bi  lateral  relationship  which  is  of  very  great   mutual benefit to both Australia and Indonesia.

QUESTION: But is it a deliberate strategic decision for you to both meet in a third country?

MR DOWNER: Well I think it’s - if we’re going to meet - we’ll work out where we’re  going to meet and we’ll announce that when the time comes.

QUESTION: So, it’s not going to be in Singapore next week?

MR DOWNER: Well we’re just working through the issues and we’ll see.

QUESTION:  There  is  one  other  thing,  if  I  could  ask  you.  Also  part  of  the  meeting  in   Indonesia,  President  Ahmadinejad,  speaking  of  Western  countries  attitudes  on  the  nuclear   question,  said  they  -  i.e.  the  West  -  “they  themselves  are  engaged  in  non-peaceful  nuclear

activities, they have it and they are expanding it day by day - another indication of that is that  in the Middle East, the region they have equipped some powers and some groups with some  nuclear weapons”.

MR  DOWNER:  You  know,  this  is  just  a  stock  standard  attack  on  Israel.  This  is  a   President; the President of Iran has said he wants to wipe Israel off the map. This is a man  who has said, I think in the capacity of a President of a serious country, just about the most  unacceptable thing that a President has said in many a long year. There’s no point in him just  trying  to  turn  the  West  into  bogeymen.  He  needs  to  think  about  the  fact  that  there  is  broad   support  around  the  world  for  curtailing  Iran’s  nuclear  ambitions  and  for  Iran  fulfilling  it’s   obligations  to  the  International  Atomic  Energy  Agency  and  to  the  United  Nations  Security   council.  I  mean,  can  I  just  make  this  point,  here  are  countries  which  were  screaming  blue



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murder  about  the  importance  of  multi  lateralism  back  in  2003,  which  are  now  saying  that   resolutions  passed  by  the  International  Atomic  Energy  Agency  and  the  United  Nations   Security Council are meaningless. I mean, I heard the Iranian Government complaining about  the American attack, or the ‘Coalition of the Willing’s’ attack on Iraq in 2003, and saying this  didn’t have a proper authorisation of the United Nations - that it should only happen if it has  proper authorisation of the United Nations. But now we have very serious authorisation of the  United  Nations  instructing  the  Iranians  to  stop  enriching  uranium,  and  the  Iranians  are  just   ignoring those resolutions, are repudiating those resolutions in an arrogant and unhelpful way.  You  know,  the  fact  is  that  the  Iranian  leadership  is  getting  itself  off-side  with  the  whole   world. Nobody else in the world says that Israel should be wiped off the map of the Earth,  only the President of Iran says that, and that is completely unacceptable - a point I’ve made  face to face - on the phone actually - to the Iranian Foreign Minister.

QUESTION:  Do  you  think  that  -  how  would  you  rate  the  chance  of  the  D8  group  of   countries actually supporting Iran on the nuclear question?

MR  DOWNER:  Well  no,  I  think  a  lot  of  countries  -  a  number  of  countries  -  will  say   what  Indonesia  said,  and  that  won’t  be  surprising,  and  that  in  itself  isn’t  a  problem.  But  I   don’t  think  they  will  walk  away  from  the  resolutions  of  the  Board  of  Governors  of  the   International Atomic Energy Agency or of the United Nations Security Council, I think they  will respect those resolutions and I think actually those are two different propositions.

QUESTION: So following this meeting you think Iran will be as alone as it is now?

MR DOWNER: Indeed I do. I think Iran is alone.

ENDS



