9:00 AM PDT Sunday, June 28, 1987 (Larry L) I see that RS is selling the 600 for $600 [coincidental?]...and I was wondering how MS-DOS compatible it is and how good a value it could be considered? (Sysop Tony) Radio Shack has been selling out the 600 for several months now. And it's available by mail order for as low as $499. It is not MS-DOS compatible at all. In fact it's not compatible with anything in the known universe. (Larry L) [ha ha] (Sysop Tony) It's being replaced with an MS-DOS laptop in August. The pros and cons of the machine have been under almost constant discussion on the message board for over a month. Phil has archived 4 files of commentary on the machine in DL11 ... See the file M600??.THD. I have one for support purposes supplied by Tandy. I'd never own one. (Larry L) I guess it's doomed to the computer orphanage. I see a lot of manufacturers of medical equipment [my field] are useing the M100 as a dedicated computer in portable devices. (Sysop Denny) Hi rowlfe!!!! (STANTON BARROWS) I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THANKS FOR THIS SIG. I COULD... (R Caley) [Both Tony and Denny here? A coven of mavens?] (STANTON BARROWS) NEVER FIND ANY PROGS FOR MY 100 UNTIL I JOINED (Sysop Denny) [coven=3 or more] (joshua) [coven -> pagan?] (Sysop Tony) Is that it, Stanton? (STANTON BARROWS) I GUESS SO (Sysop Tony) OK... thanks for the compliment. (R Caley) I had a comment re: the 600, but I'm sure it's covered in Phil's 4 archived files RS selling orphan 2000's also at $600.. (Sysop Tony) Yes, I noticed that in the flyer I received this week. In the "Where is, as is" section. (R Caley) M-100's are at a premium I bought and sold 3 last week and there's an RS guy here looking for 100 of them Is it a cult thing? (Sysop Tony) I know! There seems to be a brisk market in used 100's. Folks are finding a used 100 is better than a new 102. (rowlfe) just thought I'd drop in again after a long time gone.... (R Caley) [rowlfe, I'm from Seattle too] (rowlfe) and get back into the swing of things. ... (Sysop Tony) (Well swap phone numbers) (rowlfe) finally got the budget worked out well enough to start up here again on a more regular interval. (Sysop Tony) Well, I put in for a CompuServe node in Bremerton for you; told them there were a lot of Navy tech's in the area... (R Caley) [ALRIGHT!] (Sysop Tony) but it didn't make a dent in the corporate planning. (R Caley) [RATS!] (Sysop Tony) But it's on the list. So welcome back.... Eiji told me about your box of paper on the floor trick. (heh heh) Good show! (rowlfe) box of paper on the floor>>> say what? (Sysop Tony) Eiji told me a story about your attempting to set up your computer to capture messages while you were out to sea. and CompuServe dropped you off line, and the printer spewed out a whole box of paper? Maybe just a good story? (rowlfe) oh, THAT!!! wasn't quite a whole box, but it was quite a bit. after I got the bugs out, regarding time without carrier, that didn't happen again, but it sure was a surprise to see it when I got back that time! (Sysop Tony) I'll bet! Well let's see what sort of question Joshua has. ga Joshua ga (joshua) Good tale! Has RS fixed the 102 bus to allow 3rd party stuff like memory banks? (Sysop Tony) That was the latest report. And according to some other info trickling in PCSG has the Chipmunk working with the new buss and is ready to ship. If they get any orders. (grin) (joshua) I was thinking of getting a 102 and having my Chipmunk switched to work with it. (Sysop Tony) Looks like it's now possible. (rowlfe) seems to me I have seen a number of ads for Node Systems in CA which have large ram banks for the 102 and I was envious of the prices I saw, but what is this about a bug in the 102? (Sysop Tony) The 102 used the same ROM code as the 100 Thus, has all the 100's bugs. But in the new hardware they also buffered the system buss,... (Sysop Denny) [no date bug though] (Sysop Tony) which made all external peripherals for the 100 usel)Kss. (That's what is claimed, Denny - no proof yet) They have apparently just changed the buss back, so 3rd party products will work with it. By the way There are several new RAM expansion products available for the 100/102 PCSG has a 256K unit that gives you 8 "banks" which can be used the same as the original bank. Node Computers has a 256K bank that can be used as one continuous bank, to store large files, much as you would on a disk. See the file NODE.REV in DL13. And PG Designs is advertising one called the "Vault"... as in "Storage Vault". See VAULT.THD in DL13. Traveling Software has just announced one that can hold up to 2 megabytes of RAM, and several ROM's. See the file BOOSTR.PRD in DL13. (Sysop Denny) ok, for joshua: The different cable you will need should be pretty inexpensive I got an extra adaptor board for $25. Now for the T102 date bug, I have been running a 102 for 6 months now and it still hasn't changed date and I have been online almost every day with it Seems they went with the larger hammer theory and eliminated the code that changes the year so, in January, you'll have to change the year yourself! (Sysop Tony) Yes, that's what has been reported. However, there doesn't appear that much difference in the ROM checksums to account for deletion of some of the original code. May be, but it seems like there would be a greater difference. (rowlfe) Denny, seems to me the rs-232 port... (Sysop Denny) Only two bytes would have to be changed. (rowlfe) was causing the date bug with an interrupt collision, have you been using your 102 that way? I have only experienced the date bug with my 100's when I use them to xfer files to and from each other and my bigger machines with the rs-232 port. (Sysop Denny) No, haven't had the problem in any mode, have used all of them. (rowlfe) ok, just wondering. (Sysop Tony) I'm still skeptical... we'll see. (Sysop Denny) No honest, Tony! (joshua) The difficulty in switching my chipmunk is that it is set up for my T200, so the internal rom would have to be changed, also. (Sysop Tony) Yep.. that's true. Even the 100 version may need a different ROM than the 102 version there's no telling. PCSG is very reluctant to release any information except selling price. I understand even Larry Holmes who developed the Chipmunk, doesn't have a copy of the source code of the DOS! (Sysop Denny) True on source code If everything goes the way they (Holmes) say, it should be possible to use the T200 cable and just change the ROM But, who knows if it'll work that way (Sysop Tony) Well What was that report on the board that even the pin connections in the buss connecter were changed? Was that so the 200 connector could be used, or because of the buss differen}ices, or what? (Sysop Denny) The pin connections ar}= supposed to be changed so that is exactly like the T200 That was the report from Holmes. (Sysop Tony) OK Any more Chipmunk discussion, folks??? I would have liked to see them release the version that was discussed early on, which had both the 100 and 200 ROM's internal, with a switch on the back panel to allow you to select which machine it would connect to. That way us multi-machine folks, could move the disk drive around to suit the need. Unfortunately it never happened. As the two-drive system never happened. (Gary D.) With this new graphics system on CIS, is RLE dead? and, if so, is anybody working on letting us poor ol' 100 users access this new system? (Sysop Tony) No, the RLE system is not dead. The new GIF system (pronounced "Jif") is color CRT based, and will not likely be available to us LCD users due to the screen differences, and the extensive code required to deal with the color screen display. No one is working on a conversion because it's not practical. (As far as I know!) (Gary D.) OK Just wondered 'cause I have been having a lot of fun downloading and then printing RLE stuff. Have noticed that most uploads recently in other forums have been GIF and hardly anything in RLE. (Sysop Tony) Well, it's the new toy on the block. But I understand almost 75% of the data file deals with color usage. and we just don't have the RAM to handle it. (rowlfe) C roms (Sysop Tony) "C's" take precedence over "Q's". ga Rowlfe (rowlfe) ok back to the munk seems to me a rom change with a switch would be QUITE easy to put in provided the roms are pin compatible. bring out the CS line and piggy back the roms. I have done that in another computer I have.. remember the old ZX-80? It is now switched from the old 4k rom up to the 8k rom exactly that way. its very easy to do. (Sysop Tony) Yes, the ROM's are plug compatible. The scheme was to piggyback the two ROM's and bring out a select line to a switch. Then too the 200 would require a different header. but they had so much trouble with the 200 version, the project had a very low priority. (Sysop Denny) The problem with the 2 roms is space. It's as tight as I've ever seen inside there. (Sysop Tony) Which version of the Chipmunk do you have? (rowlfe) (Aha!) (Sysop Denny) The TEAC variety. (Sysop Tony) Hmmmm The TEAC one is the one that Larry Holmes said could accomodate the 2-ROM scheme. Comment Rowlfe? (Sysop Denny) [packaging maven?] (rowlfe) Hmmmm (Sysop Tony) I'll have to look. I was inside the Chinon several times but never inside the TEAC. Remember I added an LED to the Chinnon? (joshua) Tight fit, wasn't it? (Sysop Denny) Yes, I remember that. (Sysop Tony) Actually, no.... there was lots of room for adding an LED. There is a file on the conversion in DL9 CHIPMK.MOD, I believe. Larry didn't recommend the conversion but didn't object to it, either. They added the LED to the TEAC version. Any more Chipmunk stuff? (joshua) [where did you put your legs, though?] (Sysop Denny) Unrelated C -> rowlfe (Sysop Tony) Legs? What Legs? We din' need no stinking legs, man. What legs? ga Joshua ga (joshua) Bad joke. sorry, (rowlfe) (I use cut off BIC Biro pens with rubber erasers.) (Sysop Tony) Did I miss something???? (Sysop Denny) [time warp] (Sysop Tony) Interesting. Speaking of time warps we need a good program to create a record list or a database file for record titles, etc. How many of you are into CD's now? (rowlfe) (I am! Wotta difference!) (Sysop Tony) Right! What a difference! Closest thing to live sound there is. We recently did a sound setup in the Reno convention center for a Wayne Newton concert... (Sysop Denny) You oughta go to the CEForum and say that! (Sysop Tony) and used a Wayne Newton CD to preset the equipment. It was remarkable. .... People kept sneaking in to see Wayne Newton rehersing, and he wasn't even there! (grin) CEF??? what's that forum for? (Sysop Denny) That's where all the HiFi nuts are If you said CD's sound close to live, you'll get a 200 message discussion going. Lot's of opinions there! (Sysop Tony) Interesting. They aren't listed in FIND under Audio, Sound or Music. I did a tour yesterday. Did find ROCKNET They have a CO EVERY NIGHT!!! (Sysop Denny) It's part of the same area as Rocknet. GO CEFORUM (Sysop Tony) But ROCKNET is very focused on the Rock music groups. (rowlfe) CEForum is Consumer Electronics Forum) (Sysop Denny) Message base turns over in 2-3 days. (Sysop Tony) Oh, yes.... now I remember them. VCR's, Dishes, and all that! (Sysop Denny) [Alot on audio, though] (Sysop Tony) Rowlfe, Sad thing to report I find I'm now spending absolutely NO time on my NorthStar, and 90% of my time telecommunicating - and virtually no time developing new programs and such. I've degenerated into a question and answer man. (Bah, Humbug!) (rowlfe) ah it's lonely at the top you sa{_y? I know the }8eeling however, I now spend more time on the N* and less on telecommunicating, ... (Sysop Tony) (grin) (rowlfe) due mainly to the budget constraints. (Sysop Tony) Yeah, I hear you on that. Well, if you can't afford it, you can't. That's the bottom line. ({_rowlfe) One thing that is really going to put the hurts ... (Sysop Tony) (We appreciate seeing you, of course.) (rowlfe) to everyone is the new AT&T surcharge under consideration. (Sysop Tony) If it goes through. - and the pessimist in me says it probably will. The government n~rever seems to be able to do anything right. "If it's working fine, fix it so it doesn't.... that'll create hundreds of jobs for folks trying to fix it again." Anyone have anything special they want to discuss today? (rowlfe) Denny, you had an unrelated C earlier, remember what it was? (Sysop Denny) Ah! yes. It was about your favorite subject, batteries. I was able to obtain an offical Yuasa charger from Japan. Really cute, but it buzzes like crazy. (Sysop Tony) (Bad transformer laminations) (Sysop Denny) As I have found out, there are a bunch of chargers available for lead-acid batteries, ... (rowlfe) (yup. agree. reglue em together.) (Sysop Denny) about the size of a M100 supply. Nope, change to a high quality 120 volt tranformer (it was 100) and still buzzes. It comes from the PC board. very strange. (rowlfe) from the BOARD??? wow (Sysop Tony) (Something's vibrating, then) (rowlfe) makes me wonder what they did in there. As Tony just commented, something has to be magnetic or something to do that. (Sysop Denny) There are some unfamiliar components in there that might be the cause. ga ynoT. (Sysop Tony) Try some cold shot on the individual components, as each one is cooled down, the source of the problem should change pitch. (Sysop Denny) Well, it happens under load, noload=no buzz. (rowlfe) Sure, larger current, more field to shake things up. (Sysop Denny) But the ones available here should be a lot better. I was wondering if you saw one of these chargers in your visit to the East. (rowlfe) Yep, sure did and even got a look inside of a few Most aren't regulated very well and some were uven uncontrolled chargers where they wound the transformer to get the right voltage out when rectified However, the best one I saw was very simple to build from a LM317 regulator and an SCR initially the 317 is in current regulate mode, and then at the trigger voltage switched the 317 to voltage regulate mode to maintain the charge, and not OVER charge the cell. I saw a curcuit in a magazine last month which does the same thing. Total cost is about $5 plus the transformer and most of the components aren't critical. (Sysop Tony) That's interesting. Can you send me the schematic, or magazine info? (rowlfe) I'll find it and do just that. I don't have it here. The magazine is at work along with several others. Look for more info during the week. (Sysop Denny) Yeah, but then when you try to package it, the price goes way up. I did that with the Yuasa charger module which only costs 6 bucks }iand all you need is that and an xformer. But it wound up costing m>i 30-40 after the box and AC cable, connectors, etc. (rowlfe) Well, most mf the physical stuff comes out of my junque box (Sysop Tony) And he built it NEAT, and CLEAN. That always costs more. +cker!) (rowlfe) I do a lot of recycling of parts and such. (Sysop Denny) Well, I wish I had a supply like that! (Sysop Tony) Oh, good! Everybody send Denny your used parts!!! (rowlfe) (only fills two steamer trunks! I know! I moved them here!) (Sysop Denny) NO! new parts! I don't like blowing dust off of everything. (Sysop Tony) Gad! What a parts box! (rowlfe) (estimated weight=several hunderd pounds.) (Sysop Denny) (Hi Phil, smash any fingers?) (rowlfe) (it is UNUSUAL for me to have to buy ANYTHING anymore!) Q: ok Phil, or Denny, which of you had the port monitoring program that I saw at one of the meetings in LA? I seem to}i have lost it and I could really use it right now. (Sysop Tony) Peter St. Clair developed that. It's in DL7. Called INPORT.100. (rowlfe) oops! sorry bout that! (Sysop Tony) I just happened to be looking at it yesterday. What do you need it for? (rowlfe) I plan on adding an A/D converter for digitizing pictures using}i the FP-215 plotter I have. (Syso{_p Tony) Source? TV camera? RLE type stuff? (rowlfe) None of the a{)ove... using a simple photo transistor to get a level at ~r discrete points on the picture. I thought about just monitoring the signal, converting it to digital and then sampling a port somehow. I finally got the plotter up and running after frying the pen lift coil a few months (years?) back, and now I want to use it for something other than what it was intended and I need to do some hardware things to get this all to work. By u~rsing the port program, I can set the right A/D range auto matically, based on an initial quick scan of the picture, then go back and do it for real. I don't want to have to set the range of the A/D by hand. clear? (Sysop Tony) James Yi did an interesting file on using the barcode and printer ports for data input. You might find something useful there. See PORTS.USE in DL8. (Sysop Denny) Are you using the {_plotter to mount the sensor? And then do a scan of the picture underneath? (rowlfe) Exactly. (~2jysop Tony) Huh! Just us engineering types here now... (Sysop Denny) Ooooh neet! (rowlfe) The plotter can do some neat things, I just want it to do more! (Sysop Denny) That would be a first, a digitizer for an M100. ... (Phil W) [Hi -- Lurking while working!] (Sysop Denny) Do you stick to the 64X240 matrix? (rowlfe) Well, actually, the original thought was to make a picture the same way the old TTY's did a long while back scan the picture, then print a character with the same gray density based on what was seen by the detector end. With the M100, I am not sure how to go about using the display, but I'll think on it and see wha}it I can come up with. This is all still in the "thinking" stage right now, since I just started playing with an A/D chip I got by accident a while back. (Sysop Denny) Well, there has been some new info brought forth about the LCD, Tony, do you remember the filename of James file? (Sysop Tony) Looking. ... (rowlfe) If i knew how an RLE file was stored, I might be able to make those work. ... (Sysop Denny) Also, Phil was working on a conversion formula just this last couple of weeks. (rowlfe) come to think of it. AHA! another thought just occurred to me this has more potential than I thought!!!! A text {_reader! (Sysop Tony) Can't spot it right off... It was LCD-something. (Sysop Denny) I think it was LCDIO or something in DL8. OCR for the M100? (Sysop Tony) That's what I thought... and I was looking in the DL1 DES file. Can't seem to find it. (Phil W) [I was? -- Cris Agnew -- LDCIO.TXT] (Sysop Tony) There is a file documenting the RLE f}?rmat, somewhere. (There you go.) (rowlfe) is that LCDIO or LDCIO? (Sysop Tony) By Dr. Preble, I think... HOWTO.RLE???? LCDIO... Phil fangles his tingers otf}ien. (Sysop Denny) LCDIO.TXT in DL8. oops [spoelling checker :)] (matthew) here i am...what's a good xmodem type prog? (Sysop Tony) Matthew, that's a little like asking, "What's a good car?" Depends on what you want to do with it, What computer you want to use it in Whether you need it to communicate with odd BBS's etc. (matthew) Dnload to floppy (Sysop Tony) Which Floppy? (matthew) tdd tandy portable (Sysop Tony) Sorry, you can't download to the TDD. (matthew) dang it! no way at all? (Sysop Tony) There is only one communication chip in the computer and when it is being used to communicate via the modem, it cannot also access the RS-232 port where the TDD is plugged in. (matthew) suggestions? i keep running out of ram when i dload (Sysop Tony) there is, however, a couple of ways around the problem If, for example, you use an external modem, then you can use a switch, to switch between modem and disk drive. You download something into RAM, then save it to disk, kill the file, then download som-& more. It's cumbersome, but it works. there is also a "quirky" way of doing it if you use Disk Power DOS and acoustic cups. But all in all it's not worth the effort. Suggest you read the 3 files in DL3 called DSKTRM.???. (matthew) thanks for the info. (rowlfe) (XMODEM.312 can go to cassette, I think. would that help?) (matthew) I was hoping that it'd be straight-forward. i had one called ... (Sysop Tony) Yes, all the Xmodem programs can save to cassette. (matthew) sxm, but it was weird. i think i'll go for xmodem 312. thanks all (Sysop Tony) Actually, the only two disk drives that can be used for direct download to disk, are the DVI and the Chipmunk, because they are buss connected. That's one of the neat things they don't tell you up front, huh? (Sysop Denny) SXM is very similar to XMODEM.312 what was it that you didn't like? It might be in .312 also. (matthew) the sxm i had put a after EACH character! (Sysop Denny) !!!!! (matthew) uh huh (Sysop Denny) That's a bug! (Sysop Tony) XMDM26.100 is the latest version. (rowlfe) ("A" bug? a BIG bug!) (Sysop Denny) That shouldn't happen with any of the Xmodem programs. (Sysop Tony) It's got a few new features. and handles an external modem, when you want to move up to 1200 baud. (matthew) we made it stop, but then got NO at all might add an external (Sysop Denny) Try one of the 3 mentioned here. They should all work properly. (Sysop Tony) They're all in DL3. (matthew) tks. :) (Sysop Tony) Hey guys! It's past 11 AM Well, it looks like we're out of time for this morning's conference. So I'll end the formal conference now. Feel free to stick around and chat further, if you like. Thanks for coming}i this morning, we appreciate your input. Bye. *** [_{_END OF CONFERENCE *** (Sysop Tony) Here's my slides: ----------------- | | | @#@#@#@ | | # ^ ^ # | | -(o)-(o)- | | ( _U_ ) | | \ `-' / | | \___/ | | | ----------------- The Great ynoT (Sysop Denny) GAD! (matthew) thanks much! see ya around. (rowlfe) VARRRRYYY Nice! (Sysop Denny) Do you have any other slides. (Sysop Tony) I will, next week! gonna convert some of the "Logo" file... (Sysop Denny) Boy, I hope it's busy! (Sysop Tony) and Tana's Christmas card. (grin) List of Participants: (Due to a transcripting quirk, no list was available for this week.)