Fem vs. Kirbin R1 Kirbin • Kirbin’s team has the advantage at a distance by virtue of having AOE attacks, unlike any of the opposing team’s members. • Yuta’s got multiple ways to outright prevent the opposing team from being able to dodge attacks, and his teammates ain’t too shabby in the ‘hard-to-dodge’ department either. • On top of not being likely to successfully evade attacks, only one member of Fem’s team will not die straight away if hit. • Kirbin team strong and Fem team frail: Edward and Rakan lack tier-relevant durability feats. • Fem’s team’s offense = bad because Kirbin team regenerates, stretches, or tanks. Fem • Kirbin is a fraud and so is his team’s synergy. In contrast, Fem’s team is far more likely to take the initiative, with telepaths, mobile speedsters, and attacks that actively seek out their targets. • The opposing team’s effectiveness in combat sucks because they’re up against things their abilities don’t cover, have counterproductive in-character behavior or are slow and gay. • Edward’s telepathy is a huge bonus to the team’s synergy and their ability to abuse win-conditions. • Edward and Rakan are both fast and capable of killing their foes, and Darkseid is stronger and has a massively bigger reach than everyone else in the match, and also not slow enough to be irrelevant to the tier. • Luffy is the only durable member of Kirbin’s team, but even he is highly vulnerable to piercing and to being poisoned, something that’ll be employed by 2/3rds of Fem’s team. Everyone else will get one-shotted. • Rakan is very good at avoiding harm, and both Edward and Darkseid are immensely durable and more than capable of taking whatever’s thrown their way. • Yuta’s paralysis shticks are not in-character and won’t be used till it’s too late, have limitations that are relevant to the match, and have no showings to suggest they can work on more than one person for more than a singular second at a time. • Luffy is basically useless, as he’s too weak to damage the only member of Fem’s team that he is fast enough to touch; Edward reacts and moves three times as fast as him in combat, and Rakan is over ten times faster than him without accelerating. • The battlefield is not actually ‘confined’, Kokushibo’s ‘acidic’ demon blood is irrelevant as the only person who’ll be consuming his blood is biologically incompatible with it, and Luffy still sucks. Notes: A solid response from both parts. Kirbin establishes his team’s abilities fairly well, but errs significantly when he basically concedes Darkseid as being capable of tanking, tagging and hurting every member of team right off the bat while still writing him off as a threat for reasons of “what can one man do against an entire team”, which I found less than clever. Fem pointing out right away that this requires Kirbin’s team to have some unlikely ideal team synergy while his own team does nothing and stands still was a very good move. He also convincingly dismantles Luffy as a threat in this response as far as I’m concerned. R2 Kirbin • Kirbin team win conditions are not complex or difficult to execute, and Fem team is still weak and frail & Darkseid’s the only one who can take any hits • Fem team’s mobility advantage can be countered and won’t be useful because 2/3rds of them die in a single hit • Koku too fast to be tagged by 2/3rds of the opposing team and can take hits; the only one who can him is too weak to damage him • Luffy ain’t that slow, has piercing durability far beyond what the enemy team can bring to bear, and has defeated people who fight similarly to Fem team. • Darkseid slow and not that tough • Yuta’s shticks are in character and/or effective • Fem team durability still sucks; Edward’s durability is vague and still not provably relevant to the tier. Luffy can one-shot Edward, Kokushibo can hurt him from afar, and Rakan’s almost useless; he relies on running away, but he can neither take a single hit, nor can he actually damage most of Kirbin team, nor can he run away forever because Yuta’s got abilities that ensure he’ll have to eat a hit at some point • Rakan can not deflect Kokushibo’s omnidirectional slashes the same way he could a bullet • Luffy and Kokushibo are capable of damaging Darkseid, and he’s too slow to soak up hits forever Fem • Kirbin is still pretending his team has the most ideal synergy ever while Fem team will stand perfectly still and lay down without interrupting said synergy • Kokushibo is the only fast member of Kirbin team, and Rakan scales above people who move over thrice as fast as he does. Luffy is really slow and Yuta has no speed feats whatsoever • Everyone on Kirbin team is too slow to tag Rakan, who is in turn capable of mogging 2/3rds of said team. The only member of Kirbin team who Rakan can’t mog also happens to be the same guy who’s over 10 times slower and thus poses no threat to him • ‘Not getting hit’ IS a helpful win-com in this context • Rakan can lethally pierce everyone on the opposing team • Edward’s telepathy was handwaved by Kirbin but it’s going to come into play hard; he can anticipate every single strategy by the opposing team while also using said strategies to his advantage by catching them off-guard in ways they could never anticipate because none of them will realize they’re up against a telepath • Edward moves and strikes as fast as the tier-setter and has no stamina issues. Kirbin has already implicitly conceded that his team can be hit by Edward, as he’d already admitted Venom’s attacks would be a threat to them. • Edward lifts, excels at grappling, and can pull Kirbin’s team apart, and no one in said team possesses the strength or any other means to get around his durability. Kirbin team’s regeneration is useless because none of them can regen from Edward’s go-to killing method. • Darkseid can kill everyone on the opposing team by looking at them, has a massive reach advantage, is massively stronger than every member of the opposing team, who are in turn too frail to take even a single blow without being incapacitated or killed. • Koku’s speed as posited by Kirbin is not impressive in the context of the tier. • Luffy nearly loses an arm to piercing attacks inferior to Edward’s, and Kirbin claims that Luffy can soak up hits ‘much better’ than anyone on Fem team without providing any scans to back it up • Kirbin shifts the burden of proof in regards to Yuta’s capabilities, or lack thereof, onto Fem • Surface area exists • Edward’s scaling feat from Bella happens fast enough to be tier-relevant • Luffy’s best attack, which requires wind-up, is something Kirbin himself regards as comparable to what Darkseid can shrug off after an extended fight sequence spent soaking up hits from multiple characters whose average strikes are significantly better than anyone on Kirbin team • Darkseid won’t stand still, and even if he did Luffy wouldn’t hurt him, not to mention Luffy is functionally slower than him due to reach, making any ‘speed’ arguments moot Conclusion: Fem wins this one. Although Kirbin had his moments, Fem did good in pointing out right off the bat that Kirbin’s team’s win condition relied on some idealized team synergy that wouldn’t manifest in reality, and I really feel like Kirbin never manages to beat the allegations. His handwaving and implicit concession of Darkseid as someone who could effectively tank, harm and put stress on his team unopposed, but ‘would eventually die anyway’ was a bad move to start with, as it obviously refutes the idea that his team would be able to operate so efficiently without any hurdles if, according to his own words, at least one member of Fem team can put pressure on them. This became more of a problem in the second response, where he once again made the concession that the strongest member of his team required a significant wind-up attack to be able to deal damage that Darkseid would still easily shrug off. I am not convinced Darkseid does not solo Kirbin team, and Kirbin himself did not really put any effort into convincing me of the contrary. Fem capitalized well on this and other inconsistencies, and I found myself convinced by his assessment of how the match would play out. Kirbin also erred when he shifted the burden of proof of Yuta’s abilities onto Fem. He’s not the one required to quantify how easy it should be for your character to use his abilities; that’s solely on you. Speed is a big deal in this match, and Yuta comes up short in that regard. I don’t even need to spend much time analyzing the ‘paralysis’ shenanigans, how in-character they are, or how efficiently he can use them because Kirbin did not provide a single speed feat for this character beyond ‘he can move’. Considering this character is the only one on Kirbin’s team who can supposedly ensure the opposing team has to take hits, need I say more? Kirbin team slow, Fem team fast. Kokushibo can't carry his slow-ass team alone, and the only member of Fem team who he outspeeds happens to be the one he can't hurt. Lastly, Edward's telepathy is a big boon to Fem's team synergy and Kirbin did not actually address it besides applying tons of handwavium. Luffy 'fighting a mind-reader before' isn't a counter-argument; not only is he completely unaware of Edward's abilities, he's hilariously slow in comparison. Sorry, but that doesn't fly. I didn’t buy Fem’s claims about Luffy’s piercing durability being 'inconsistent', though. There are plenty of characters out there who can be superficially cut or pierced pretty easily, but doing combat-relevant damage to their structure in a way that matters is something else entirely. None of the scans posted are anti-feats of Luffy actually being damaged by those things, just having blood drawn by them. Kirbin pointed that out and I agree with him.