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For,
he said, the eleven are releasing Socrates from his fetters and giving
directions how he is to die today.
Oh Socrates, this is the last time now that
your friends will speak to you or you to them.
And Socrates glanced at
Crito and said, Crito, let somebody take her home.
What a strange thing, my friends, that seems to be
which men call pleasure! How wonderfully it is related to that which seems to be
its opposite, pain, in that they will not both come to a man at the same time,
and yet if he pursues the one and captures it he is generally obliged to take
the other also, as if the two were joined together in one head. And I
think,
if Aesop had thought of them, he would have made a fable telling how they were at war and god
wished to reconcile them, and when he could not do that, he fastened their heads
together, and for that reason, when one of them comes to anyone, the other
follows after. Just so it seems that in my case, after pain was in my leg on
account of the fetter, pleasure appears to have come following
after.
By Zeus, Socrates, I am glad you reminded me.
Then tell him,
Cebes,
said he, the truth, that I composed these verses not
because I wished to rival him or his poems,
Socrates,
it said, make music and work at it.
And I formerly thought it was
urging and encouraging me
What a message that is, Socrates, for Evenus! I have met him often, and
from what I have seen of him, I should say that he will not take your advice in
the least if he can help it.
Why
so?
said he. Is not Evenus a philosopher?
I think so,
said Simmias.Then Evenus will take my advice, and so will every man
who has any worthy interest in philosophy. Perhaps, however, he will not take
his own life, for they say that is not permitted.
What do you mean by this,
Socrates, that it is not permitted to take one’s life, but that the philosopher
would desire to follow after the dying?
How is this, Cebes? Have you and Simmias, who are pupils of Philolaus,
not heard about such things?
Nothing
definite, Socrates.
I myself speak
of them only from hearsay; but I have no objection to telling what I have heard.
And indeed it is perhaps especially fitting,
Why in the world do
they say that it is not permitted to kill oneself, Socrates?
I heard Philolaus,
when he was living in our city, say the same thing you just said, and I have
heard it from others, too, that one must not do this; but I never heard anyone
say anything definite about it.
You must have
courage,
said he, and perhaps you might hear something. But
perhaps it will seem strange to you that this alone of all laws is without
exception, and it never happens to mankind, as in other matters, that only at
some times and for some persons it is better to die than to live; and it will
perhaps seem strange to you that these human beings for whom it is better to die
cannot without impiety do good to themselves, but must wait for some other
benefactor.
God knows it does,
It would seem unreasonable, if put in this
way,
said Socrates,
but perhaps
there is some reason in it. Now the doctrine that is taught in secret about this
matter, that we men are in a kind of prison and must not set ourselves free or
run away, seems to me to be weighty and not easy to understand. But this at
least, Cebes, I do believe is sound, that the gods are our guardians and that we
men are one of the chattels of the gods. Do you not believe
this?
Yes,
said Cebes,
I do.
Well then,
said he, if one of your
chattels should kill itself when you had not indicated that you wished it to
die, would you be angry with it and punish it if you could?
Certainly,
he replied.Then perhaps from this point of view it is not
unreasonable to say that a man must not kill himself until god sends some
necessity upon him, such as has now come upon me.
That,
said Cebes, seems sensible. But what
you said just now, Socrates, that philosophers ought to be ready and willing to
die, that seems
Cebes
is always on the track of arguments and will not be easily convinced by whatever
anyone says.
Well,
Socrates, this time I think myself that Cebes is right. For why should really
wise men run away from masters who are better than they and lightly separate
themselves from them? And it strikes me that Cebes is aiming his argument at
you, because you are so ready to leave us and the gods, who are, as
You have a right to say that,
he replied;
for I think you mean that I must defend myself against this accusation,
as if we were in a law court.
Precisely,
said Simmias.Well, then,
said he, I will try to make a more convincing
defence than I did before the judges. For if I did not believe,
said he,
that I was going to other wise and good gods, and, moreover, to men who
have died, better men than those here, I should be wrong in not grieving at
death. But as it is, you may rest assured
Well,
said Simmias, do you intend to go away, Socrates,
I
will try,
he replied. But first let us ask Crito there what he
wants. He has apparently been trying to say something for a long
time.
Only, Socrates,
said Crito, that the man who is to administer the poison to you has been
telling me for some time to warn you to talk as little as possible. He says
people get warm when they talk and heat has a bad effect on the action of the
poison;
Never mind him. Just let him do his
part and prepare to give it twice or even, if necessary, three
times.
I was pretty sure that
was what you would say,
said Crito, but he has been bothering me
for a long time.
Never mind
him,
said Socrates.
I wish now to explain to you, my judges, the
reason why I think a man who has really spent his life in philosophy is
naturally of good courage
By Zeus,
And they
would be speaking the truth, Simmias, except in the matter of knowing very well.
For they do not know in what way the real philosophers desire death, nor in what
way they deserve death, nor what kind of a death it is.
said he, speak with one another,
paying no further attention to them. Do we think there is such a thing as
death?
Certainly,
replied
Simmias.We believe, do we not, that
death is the separation of the soul from the body, and that the state of being
dead is the state in which the body is separated from the soul and exists alone
by itself and the soul is separated from the body and exists alone by itself? Is
death anything other than this?
No,
it is this,
said he.Now, my friend,
see if you agree with me;
By no means,
Socrates,
said Simmias.How about
the pleasures of love?
Certainly
not.
Well, do you think such a
man would think much of the other cares of the body—I mean such as the
possession of fine clothes and shoes and the other personal adornments? Do you
think he would care about them
I think the true philosopher would despise them,
he replied.Altogether, then, you think
that such a man would not devote himself to the body, but would, so far as he
was able, turn away from the body and concern himself with the
soul?
Yes.
To begin with, then, it is clear that in such
matters the philosopher, more than other men, separates
It is.
Now certainly most people think that a man who
takes no pleasure and has no part in such things doesn’t deserve to live, and
that one who cares nothing for the pleasures of the body is about as good as
dead.
That is very
true.
Now, how about the
acquirement of pure knowledge? Is the body a hindrance or not, if it is made to
share in the search for wisdom?
Certainly I do,
he
replied.Then,
said he,
when does the soul attain to truth? For when it tries to consider
anything in company with the body, it is evidently deceived by it.
True.
In thought, then, if at all, something of the realities
becomes clear to it?
Yes.
But it thinks best
when none of these things troubles it, neither hearing nor sight, nor pain nor
any pleasure, but it is, so far as possible, alone by itself, and takes leave of
the body, and avoiding, so far as it can, all association or contact with the
body, reaches out toward the reality.
That is true.
In this
matter also, then,
Evidently.
Now how
about such things as this, Simmias? Do we think there is such a thing as
absolute justice, or not?
We
certainly think there is.
And
absolute beauty and goodness.
Of
course.
Well, did you ever see
anything of that kind with your eyes?
Certainly not,
said he.Or
did you ever reach them with any of the bodily senses? I am speaking of all such
things, as size, health, strength, and in short the essence
Certainly.
Would not that man do this most perfectly who approaches each thing, so far as possible, with the reason alone, not introducing sight into his reasoning
nor dragging in
That is true as true can be, Socrates,
said Simmias.
Then,
said he,
all this must cause good lovers of wisdom to think and say one to the
other something like this:
There seems to be a short cut which leads us and our
argument to the conclusion in our search that so long as we have the body, and
the soul is contaminated by such an evil, we shall never attain completely what
we desire, that is, the truth. For the body keeps us constantly busy by reason
of its need of sustenance;
For,
if pure knowledge is impossible while the body is with us, one of two thing must
follow, either it cannot be acquired at all or only when we are dead; for then
the soul
Such words as
these, I think, Simmias, all who are rightly lovers of knowledge must say to
each other and such must be their thoughts. Do you not agree?Most assuredly, Socrates.
Then,
said Socrates, if this is true, my
friend, I have great hopes that when I reach the place to which I am going, I
shall there, if anywhere, attain fully to that which has been my chief object in
my past life, so that the journey which is now
Certainly,
said Simmias.And does not the purification consist in this which has
been mentioned long ago in our discourse, in separating, so far as possible, the
soul from the body and teaching the soul the habit of collecting and bringing
itself together from all parts of the body, and living, so far as it can, both
now
Certainly,
said he.Well,
then, this is what we call death, is it not, a release and separation from the
body?
Exactly so,
said
he.But, as we hold, the true
philosophers and they alone are always most eager to release the soul, and just
this—the release and separation of the soul from the body—is their
study, is it not?
Obviously.
Then, as I
said in the beginning, it would be absurd if a man who had been all his life
fitting himself to live as nearly
Of
course.
In fact, then,
Simmias,
said he, the true philosophers practice dying, and death
is less terrible to them than to any other men. Consider it in this way.
They
are in every way hostile to the body and they desire to have the soul apart by
itself alone. Would it not be very foolish if they should be frightened and
troubled when this very thing happens, and if they should not be glad to go to
the place where there is hope of attaining
Very foolish, certainly,
said he.Then is it not,
said Socrates, a sufficient indication,
when you see a man troubled because he is going to die, that he was not a lover
of wisdom but a lover of the body?
Certainly,
said he, it is as you
say.
Then, Simmias,
he
continued, is not that which is called courage especially characteristic
of philosophers?
By all
means,
said he.And
self-restraint—that which is commonly called self-restraint, which
consists in not being excited by the passions and in being superior to them and
acting in a seemly way—is not that characteristic of those alone who
despise the body
Necessarily,
said he.For,
said Socrates,
if you care to consider the courage and the self-restraint of other men,
you will see that they are absurd.
How so, Socrates?
You know,
do you not, that all other men count death among the great
evils?
They certainly
do.
And do not brave men face
death—when they do face it—through fear of greater
evils?
That is
true.
Then all except
philosophers are brave through fear. And yet it is absurd to be brave through
fear and cowardice.
Very
true.
And how about those of
seemly conduct? Is their case not the same? They are self-restrained because of
a kind of self-indulgence. We say, to be sure, that this is impossible,
nevertheless their foolish self-restraint amounts to little more than this; for
they fear that they may be deprived of certain pleasures which they desire, and
so they refrain from some because they are under the sway of others.
And yet
being ruled by pleasures
So it
seems.
My dear Simmias, I
suspect that this is not the right way to purchase virtue, by exchanging
pleasures for pleasures, and pains for pains, and fear for fear, and greater for
less, as if they were coins, but the only right coinage, for which all those
things
the thyrsus-bearers are many, but the mystics few
;
Socrates, I agree to
What you say, Cebes, is true,
said
Socrates. Now what shall we do? Do you wish to keep on conversing about
this to see whether it is probable or not?
I do,
said Cebes. I should like to hear what you think
about it.
Well,
said
Socrates, I do not believe anyone who heard us now,
Certainly,
said Cebes.Now,
said he, if you wish to find this out
easily, do not consider the question with regard to men only, but with regard to
all animals and plants, and, in short, to all things which may be said to have
birth. Let us see with regard to all these, whether it is true that they are all
born or generated
Yes.
And if it becomes
smaller,
That is true,
said he.And the weaker is generated from the stronger, and the
slower from the quicker?
Certainly.
And the
worse from the better and the more just from the more unjust?
Of course.
Then,
said he, we have this fact sufficiently
established, that all things are generated in this way, opposites from
opposites?
Certainly.
Now then, is
there between all these pairs of opposites what may be called
Yes,
said he.And similarly analyzing and
combining, and cooling and heating, and all opposites in the same way. Even if
we do not in every case have the words to express it, yet in fact is it not
always inevitable that there is a process of generation from each to the
other?
Certainly,
said
he.
Well then,
said Socrates,
is there anything that is the opposite of living, as being awake is the
opposite of sleeping?
Certainly,
said Cebes.What?
Being
dead,
said he.Then these two are
generated from each other, and as they are two, so the processes between them
are two; is it not so?
Of
course.
Now,
said
Socrates, I will tell about one of the two pairs of which I just spoke to
you and its intermediate processes; and do you tell me about the other. I say
one term is sleeping and the other is being awake, and being awake is generated
from sleeping, and sleeping from being awake,
Certainly.
Now do you,
said he, tell me in this way about life and
death. Do you not say that living is the opposite of being
dead?
I do.
And that they are generated one from the
other?
Yes.
Now what is it which is generated from the
living?
The dead,
said
he.And what,
said Socrates,
from the dead?
I can say only
one thing—the living.
From the
dead, then, Cebes, the living, both things and persons,
Evidently,
said he.Then,
said Socrates, our souls exist in the other
world.
So it
seems.
And of the two processes
of generation between these two, the one is plain to be seen; for surely dying
is plain to be seen, is it not?
Certainly,
said he.Well
then,
said Socrates, what shall we do next? Shall we deny the
opposite process, and shall nature be one-sided in this instance? Or must we
grant that there is some process of generation the opposite of
dying?
Certainly we must,
said he.What is this process?
Coming to life again.
Then,
said Socrates, if there be such a
thing as
Certainly.
So by this
method also we reach the conclusion that the living are generated from the dead,
just as much as the dead from the living; and since this is the case, it seems
to me to be a sufficient proof that the souls of the dead exist somewhere,
whence they come back to life.
I
think, Socrates, that results necessarily from our previous
admissions.
Now here is another
method, Cebes, to prove, as it seems to me, that we were right in making those
admissions.
What do you mean?
said he.It is not at all hard,
said Socrates, to
understand what I mean. For example, if the process of falling asleep existed,
but not the opposite process of waking from sleep,
I see none,
Socrates,
said Cebes. What you say seems to be perfectly
true.
I think, Cebes,
said he, it is absolutely so, and we are not deluded in making these
admissions, but the return to life is an actual fact, and it is a fact that the
living are generated from the dead and that the souls of the dead
And besides,
Cebes rejoined, if it is true, Socrates, as
you are fond of saying, that our learning is nothing else than recollection,
then this would be an additional argument that we must necessarily have learned
in some previous time what we now remember.
But this is impossible if
But, Cebes,
said Simmias, what were the proofs of this?
Remind me; for I do not recollect very well just now.
Briefly,
said Cebes, a very good proof is
this: When people are questioned, if you put the questions well, they answer
correctly of themselves about everything; and yet if they had not within them
some knowledge and right reason, they could not do this. And that this is so is
shown most clearly if you take them
And if you are not convinced in that way,
Simmias,
said Socrates, see if you don’t agree when you look at it
in this way. You are incredulous, are you not, how that which is called learning
can be recollection?
I am not
incredulous,
said Simmias, but I want just what we are talking
about, recollection. And from what Cebes undertook to say I already begin to
recollect and be convinced; nevertheless, I should like to hear
It was this,
said he. We agree, I suppose,
that if anyone is to remember anything, he must know it at some previous
time?
Certainly,
said
he.Then do we agree to this also, that
when knowledge comes in such a way, it is recollection? What I mean is this: If
a man, when he has heard or seen or in any other way perceived a thing, knows
not only that thing, but also has a perception of some other thing, the
knowledge of which is not the same, but different, are we not right in saying
that
What do you
mean?
Let me give an example.
Knowledge of a man is different from knowledge of a lyre.
Of course.
Well, you know that a lover when he sees a lyre or a cloak or anything
else which his beloved is wont to use, perceives the lyre and in his mind
receives an image of the boy to whom the lyre belongs, do you not? But this is
recollection, just as when one sees Simmias, one often remembers Cebes, and I
could cite countless such examples.
To be sure you could,
said Simmias.Now,
said he,
is that
sort of thing a kind of recollection? Especially when it takes place with regard
to things which have already been forgotten through time and
inattention?
Certainly,
he replied.Well, then,
said
Socrates, can a person on seeing a picture of a horse or of a lyre be
reminded of a man, or on seeing a picture of Simmias be reminded of
Cebes?
Surely.
And on seeing a picture of Simmias he can be
reminded
Yes,
said
he.All these examples show, then, that
recollection is caused by like things and also by unlike things, do they
not?
Yes.
And when one has a recollection of anything
caused by like things, will he not also inevitably consider whether this
recollection offers a perfect likeness of the thing recollected, or
not?
Inevitably,
he
replied.Now see,
said he,
if this is true. We say there is such a thing as equality. I do not mean
one piece of wood equal to another, or one stone to another, or anything of that
sort, but something beyond that—equality in the abstract. Shall we say
there is such a thing, or not?
We shall say that there is,
said Simmias, most
decidedly.
And do we know what
it is?
Certainly,
said
he.Whence did we derive the knowledge
of it? Is it not from the things we were just speaking of? Did we not, by seeing
equal pieces of wood or stones or other things, derive from them a knowledge of
abstract equality, which is another thing? Or do you not think it is another
thing? Look at the matter in this way. Do not equal stones and pieces of wood,
though they remain the same, sometimes appear to us equal in one respect and
unequal in another?
Certainly.
Well, then,
did absolute equals ever appear to you unequal or
No, Socrates, never.
Then,
said he, those equals are not the same as equality
in the abstract.
Not at all, I
should say, Socrates.
But from those
equals,
said he, which are not the same as abstract equality, you
have nevertheless conceived and acquired knowledge of it?
Very true,
he replied.And it is either like them or unlike
them?
Certainly.
It makes no
difference,
said he. Whenever the sight of one thing
Surely.
Now
then,
said he, do the equal pieces of wood and the equal things of
which we were speaking just now affect us in this way: Do they seem to us to be
equal as abstract equality is equal, or do they somehow fall short of being like
abstract equality?
They fall very
far short of it,
said he.Do we
agree, then, that when anyone on seeing a thing thinks,
This thing that I see
aims at being like some other thing that exists, but falls short
, he who thinks thus must of necessity have previous knowledge of the thing
which he says the other resembles but falls short of?We must.
Well then, is this just what happened to us with regard to the equal
things and equality in the abstract?
It certainly is.
Then we
must have had knowledge of equality
That is
true.
And we agree, also, that
we have not gained knowledge of it, and that it is impossible to gain this
knowledge, except by sight or touch or some other of the senses? I consider that
all the senses are alike.
Yes,
Socrates, they are all alike, for the purposes of our argument.
Then it is through the senses that we must learn
Yes.
Then before we began to see or hear or use the other senses we must
somewhere have gained a knowledge of abstract or absolute equality, if we were
to compare with it the equals which we perceive by the senses, and see that all
such things yearn to be like abstract equality but fall short of
it.
That follows necessarily
from what we have said before, Socrates.
And we saw and heard and had the other senses as soon as we were
born?
Certainly.
But, we say,
we must have acquired a knowledge of equality before we had these
senses?
Yes.
Then it appears that we must have acquired it before we
were born.
It does.
Now if we had acquired that knowledge before we
were born, and were born with it, we knew before we were born and at the moment
of birth not only the equal and the greater and the less, but all such
abstractions? For our present argument is no more concerned with the equal than
with absolute beauty and the absolute good and the just and the holy, and, in
short,
That is
true.
And if after acquiring it
we have not, in each case, forgotten it, we must always be born knowing these
things, and must know them throughout our life; for to know is to have acquired
knowledge and to have retained it without losing it, and the loss of knowledge
is just what we mean when we speak of forgetting, is it not,
Simmias?
Certainly,
said he.But, I suppose, if we acquired knowledge before we were
born and lost it at birth, but afterwards by the use of our senses regained the
knowledge which we had previously possessed, would not the process which we call
learning really be recovering knowledge which is our own? And should we be right
in calling this recollection?
Assuredly.
For we found
that it is possible,
That is certainly
true, Socrates.
Which then do you
choose, Simmias? Were we born
I cannot
choose at this moment, Socrates.
How
about this question? You can choose and you have some opinion about it: When a
man knows, can he give an account of what he knows or not?
Certainly he can, Socrates.
And do you think that everybody can give an
account of the matters about which we have just been talking?
I wish they might,
said Simmias;
but on the contrary I fear that tomorrow, at this time, there will be no
longer any man living who is able to do so properly.
Then, Simmias, you do not think all men know these
things?
By no
means.
Then they recollect the
things they once learned?
Necessarily.
When did
our souls acquire the knowledge of them? Surely not after we were born as human
beings.
Certainly
not.
Then
previously.
Yes.
Then, Simmias, the
souls existed previously, before they were in human form, apart from bodies, and
they had intelligence.
Unless,
Socrates, we acquire these ideas at the moment of birth; for that time
Very well, my friend. But at what other time do we lose
them? For we are surely not born with them, as we just now agreed. Do we lose
them at the moment when we receive them, or have you some other time to
suggest?
None whatever,
Socrates. I did not notice that I was talking nonsense.
Then, Simmias,
said he, is this the state
of the case? If, as we are always saying, the beautiful exists, and the good,
and every essence of that kind, and if we refer all our sensations to these,
Socrates, it seems to me
that there is absolutely the same certainty, and our argument comes to the
excellent conclusion that
But how about
Cebes?
said Socrates. For Cebes must be convinced,
too.
He is fully convinced, I
think,
said Simmias; and yet he is the most obstinately
incredulous of mortals. Still, I believe he is quite convinced of this, that our
soul existed
You
are right, Simmias,
said Cebes. It seems to me that we have proved
only half of what is required, namely, that our soul existed before our birth.
But we must also show that it exists after we are dead as well as before our
birth, if the proof is to be perfect.
It has been shown, Simmias and Cebes, already,
said Socrates,
if you will combine this conclusion with the one we reached before, that
every living being is born from the dead. For if the soul exists before birth,
and,
Assume that we have that fear, Socrates, and try to
convince us; or rather, do not assume that we are afraid, but perhaps there is a
child within us, who has such fears. Let us try to persuade him not to fear
death as if it were a hobgoblin.
Ah,
said Socrates, you must sing charms to him every day
until you charm away his fear.
Where then, Socrates,
said he,
shall we find a good singer of such charms, since you are leaving
us?
he replied, is a large country, in
which there are many good men, and there are many foreign peoples also. You
ought to search through all of them in quest of such a charmer, sparing neither
money nor toil, for there is no greater need for which you could spend your
money. And you must seek among yourselves, too, for perhaps you would hardly
find others better able to do this than you.
That,
said Cebes, shall be done. But let us return to the
point where we left off,
Oh, I am willing, of
course.
Good,
said
he.Well then,
said Socrates,
must we not ask ourselves some such question as this? What kind of thing
naturally suffers dispersion, and for what kind of thing might we naturally fear
it, and again what kind of thing is not liable to it? And after this must we not
inquire to which class the soul belongs and base our hopes or fears for our
souls upon the answers to these questions?
You are quite right,
he replied.Now is not that which is compounded
I think,
said Cebes, that is true.
Then it is most probable that things which are
always the same and unchanging are the uncompounded things and the things that
are changing and never the same are the composite things?
Yes, I think so.
Let us then,
said he, turn to what we were
discussing before.
It must,
said
Cebes, necessarily remain the same,
But how about the
many things, for example, men, or horses, or cloaks, or any other such things,
which bear the same names as the absolute essences and are called beautiful or
equal or the like? Are they always the same? Or are they, in direct opposition
to the essences, constantly changing in themselves, unlike each other, and, so
to speak, never the same?
The
latter,
said Cebes; they are never the same.
And you can
see these and touch them and perceive them by the other senses, whereas the
things which are always the same can be grasped only by the reason, and are
invisible and not to be seen?
Certainly,
said he, that is true.
Now,
said he, shall we assume two kinds of
existences, one visible, the other invisible?
Let us assume them,
said Cebes.And that the invisible is always the same and the
visible constantly changing?
Let us
assume that also,
said he.
Well
then,
said Socrates, are we not made up of two parts, body and
soul?
Yes,
he
replied.Now to which class should we
say the body is more similar and more closely akin?
To the visible,
said he; that is clear to
everyone.
And the soul? Is it
visible or invisible?
Invisible, to
man, at least, Socrates.
But we call
things visible and invisible with reference to human vision, do we
not?
Yes, we
do.
Then what do we say about
the soul? Can it be seen or not?
It
cannot be seen.
Then it is
invisible?
Yes.
Then the soul is more like the invisible than the
body is,
Necessarily,
Socrates.
Now we have also been
saying for a long time, have we not, that, when the soul makes use of the body
for any inquiry, either through seeing or hearing or any of the other
senses—for inquiry through the body means inquiry through the
senses,—then it is dragged by the body to things which never remain the
same, and it wanders about and is confused and dizzy like a drunken man because
it lays hold upon such things?
Certainly.
But when the
soul
Socrates,
said he, what you say is
perfectly right and true.
And now
again, in view of what we said before and of what has just been said, to which
class do you think
I think,
Socrates,
said he, that anyone, even the dullest, would agree,
after this argument that the soul is infinitely more like that which is always
the same than that which is not.
And
the body?
Is more like the
other.
Consider, then, the
matter in another way.
When the soul
Yes, I
think so.
Which, then, does the soul
resemble?
Clearly, Socrates, the
soul is like the divine and the body like the mortal.
Then see, Cebes, if this is not the conclusion from all
that we have said,
No, we cannot.
Well then, since this is the case, is it not natural for the body to
meet with speedy dissolution and for the soul, on the contrary, to be entirely
indissoluble, or nearly so?
Of
course.
Observe,
he went
on, that when a man dies, the visible part of him, the body, which lies
in the visible world and which we call the corpse, which is naturally subject to
dissolution and decomposition, does not undergo these processes at once, but
remains for a considerable time, and even for a very long time, if death takes
place when the body is in good condition, and at a favorable time of the year.
For when the body is shrunk and embalmed, as is done in
Yes.
But the soul, the
invisible, which departs into another place which is, like itself, noble and
pure and invisible, to the realm of the god of the other world in truth, to the
good and wise god, whither, if God will, my soul is soon to go,—is this
soul, which has such qualities and such a nature, straightway scattered and
destroyed when it departs from the body, as most men say?
By all
means.
Then if it is in such a
condition, it goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible,
divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from
error and folly and fear and fierce loves and all the other human ills, and as
the initiated say, lives in truth through all after time with the gods. Is this
our belief, Cebes, or not?
Assuredly,
said Cebes.But,
I think,
By no
means,
said he.But it will be
interpenetrated, I suppose, with the corporeal which intercourse and communion
with the body have made a part of its nature because the body has been its
constant companion and the object of its care?
Certainly.
And, my friend, we must believe that the corporeal is burdensome and
heavy and earthly and visible. And such a soul is weighed down by this and is
dragged back into the visible world, through fear of the invisible and of the
other world, and so,
That is likely, Socrates.
It is likely, Cebes. And it is likely that those are not the souls of
the good, but those of the base, which are compelled to flit about such places
as a punishment for their former evil mode of life. And they flit about
What natures do you mean,
Socrates?
I mean, for example,
that those who have indulged in gluttony and violence and drunkenness, and have
taken no pains to avoid them, are likely to pass into the bodies of asses and
other beasts of that sort.
Do you not think so?
Certainly that is very likely.
And those who have chosen injustice and tyranny and robbery pass into
the bodies of wolves and hawks and kites. Where else can we imagine that they
go?
Beyond a doubt,
said
Cebes, they pass into such creatures.
Then,
said he, it is clear where all the others go, each
in accordance with its own habits?
Yes,
said Cebes, of course.
Then,
said he, the happiest of those, and
those who go to the best place, are those who have practiced,
How are these
happiest?
Don’t you see? Is it
not likely that they pass again into some such social and gentle species as that
of bees or of wasps or ants, or into the human race again, and that worthy men
spring from them?
Yes.
And no one who has
not been a philosopher and who is not wholly pure when he departs, is allowed to
enter into the communion of the gods,
No, that would not be seemly for them, Socrates,
said
Cebes.Most assuredly not,
And therefore those who
care for their own souls, and do not live in service to the body, turn their
backs upon all these men and do not walk in their ways, for they feel that they
know not whither they are going. They themselves believe that philosophy, with
its deliverance and purification, must not be resisted, and so they turn and
follow it whithersoever it leads.
How do they do this, Socrates?
I will tell you,
he replied. The lovers of
knowledge,
said he, perceive that when philosophy first takes
possession of their soul it is entirely
The lovers of
knowledge, then, I say, perceive that philosophy, taking possession of the soul
when it is in this state, encourages it gently and tries to set it free,
pointing out that the eyes and the ears and the other senses are full of deceit,
and urging it to withdraw from these, except in so far as their use is
unavoidable, and exhorting it to collect and concentrate itself within itself,
and to trust nothing except
What is this evil,
Socrates?
said Cebes.The evil is
that the soul of every man, when it is greatly pleased or pained by anything, is
compelled to believe that the object which caused the emotion is very distinct
and very true; but it is not. These objects are mostly the visible ones, are
they not?
Certainly.
And when
this occurs, is not the soul most completely put in bondage by the
body?
How so?
Because each pleasure or pain nails it as with a
nail to the body and rivets it on and makes it corporeal, so that it fancies the
things are true which the body says are true. For because it has the same
beliefs and pleasures as the body it is compelled to adopt also the same habits
and mode of life, and can never depart in purity to the other world, but must
always go away contaminated with the body; and so it sinks quickly into another
body again and grows into it,
What you say,
Socrates, is very true,
said Cebes.This, Cebes, is the reason why the true lovers of knowledge are
temperate and brave; not the world’s reason. Or do you disagree?
Certainly not.
No, for the soul of the philosopher would not reason as
others do, and would not think it right that philosophy should set it free, and
that then when set free it should give itself again into bondage to pleasure and
pain and engage in futile toil, like Penelope unweaving the web she wove. No,
his soul believes that it must gain peace from these emotions, must follow
reason and abide always in it, beholding that which is true and divine and not a
matter of opinion, and making that its only food;
Do you think there is any
incompleteness in what has been said? There are still many subjects for doubt
and many points open to attack, if anyone cares to discuss the matter
thoroughly. If you are considering anything else, I have nothing to say; but if
you are in any difficulty about these matters, do not hesitate
Socrates, I will tell you the truth. For some time each of us has been in
doubt and has been egging the other on and urging him to ask a question, because
we wish to hear your answer, but hesitate to trouble you, for fear that it may
be disagreeable to you in your present misfortune.
Ah,
But men, because of their own fear of death, misrepresent the swans and say that
they sing for sorrow, in mourning for their own death. They do not consider that
no bird sings when it is hungry or cold or has any other trouble; no, not even
the nightingale or the swallow or the hoopoe which are said to sing in
lamentation. I do not believe they sing for grief, nor do the swans;
Good,
said Simmias.
I
will tell you my difficulty, and then Cebes in turn will say why he does not
agree to all you have said. I think, Socrates, as perhaps you do yourself, that
it is either impossible or very difficult to acquire clear knowledge about these
matters in this life. And yet he is a weakling who does not test in every way
what is said about them and persevere until he is worn out by studying them on
every side. For he must do one of two things; either he must learn or discover
the truth about these matters, or if that is impossible, he must take whatever
human doctrine is best
Perhaps, my friend, you are right. But tell me in what respect it is not
satisfactory.
In this,
said he, that one might use the same argument about harmony and a lyre
with its strings.One might say that the harmony is invisible and incorporeal,
and very beautiful and
Simmias raises a fair
objection. Now if any of you is readier than I, why does he not reply to him?
For he seems to score a good point. However, I think
said he, tell us what it
was that troubled you.
Well, I will
tell you,
said Cebes.
The argument seems to me to be just where it was, and to be still open to the objection I made before.
For I do not deny that it has
been very cleverly, and, if I may say so, conclusively shown that the soul
existed before it entered into this bodily form, but it does not seem to me
proved that it will still exist when we are dead. I do not agree with Simmias’
objection, that the soul is not stronger and more lasting than the body, for I
think it is far superior in all such respects.
Why then,
the argument might
say, do you still disbelieve, when you see that after a man dies
Now
see if my reply to this has any sense. I think I may, like Simmias, best express
myself in a figure. It seems to me that it is much as if one should say about an
old weaver who had died, that the man had not perished but was safe and sound
somewhere, and should offer as a proof of this the fact that the cloak which the
man had woven and used to wear was still whole and had not perished. Then if
anyone did not believe him, he would ask
And so we are not yet
justified in feeling sure, on the strength of this argument,
What
argument shall we believe henceforth? For the argument of Socrates was perfectly
convincing, and now it has fallen into discredit.
For the doctrine that
the soul is a kind of harmony has always had (and has now) a wonderful hold upon
me, and your mention of it reminded me that I had myself believed in it before.
Now I must begin over again and find another argument to convince me that when a
man dies his soul does not perish with him. So, for heaven’s sake, tell how
Socrates
Tomorrow, perhaps, Phaedo, you will cut off this
beautiful hair.
I suppose so,
Socrates,
said I.Not if you take my
advice.
What shall I do
then?
I asked.You will cut it off
today, and I will cut mine, if our argument dies and we cannot bring it to life
again.
But,
I replied,
they say that even Heracles is not a match for two.
Well,
said he, call me to help you,
as your Iolaus, while there is still light.
I call you to help, then,
said I, not as Heracles calling
Iolaus, but as Iolaus calling Heracles.
That is all one,
said he. But first let us guard against
a danger.
Of what sort?
I
asked.
The danger of becoming
misologists or haters of argument,
said he, as people become
misanthropists or haters of man; for no worse evil can happen to a man than to
hate argument. Misology and misanthropy arise from similar causes. For
misanthropy arises from trusting someone implicitly without sufficient
knowledge. You think the man is perfectly true and sound and trustworthy, and
afterwards you find him base and false. Then you have the same experience with
another person. By the time this has happened to a man a good many times,
especially if it happens among those whom he might regard as his nearest
Certainly,
said I.Well,
he went on, is it not disgraceful, and is it not
plain that such a man undertakes to consort with men when he has no knowledge of
human nature?
For if he had knowledge when he dealt with them, he would think
that the good
What do you
mean?
I mean just what I might
say about the large and small. Do you think there is anything more unusual than
to find a very large or a very small man, or dog, or other creature, or again,
one that is very quick or slow, very ugly or beautiful, very black or white?
Have you not noticed that the extremes in all these instances are rare and few,
and the examples between the extremes are very many?
To be sure,
said I.And don’t you think,
that if there were to be a competition in rascality, those who excelled
would be very few in that also?
Very
likely,
I replied.Yes, very
likely,
he said, But it is not in that respect that arguments are
like men; I was merely following your lead in discussing that. The similarity
lies in this: when a man without proper knowledge concerning arguments has
confidence in the truth of an argument and afterwards thinks that it is false,
whether it really is so or not, and this happens again and again; then you know,
those men especially who
Certainly,
I said, that is very
true.
Then, Phaedo,
he
said, if there is any system of argument which is true and sure and can
be learned, it would be a sad thing if a man,
Yes, by Zeus,
I said, it would be
sad.
First, then,
said
he, let us be on our guard against this,
For when they argue about anything, they do not care what
the truth is in the matters they are discussing, but are eager only to make
their own views seem true to their hearers. And I fancy I differ from them just
now only to this extent: I shall not be eager to make what I say seem true to my
hearers, except as a secondary matter, but shall be very eager
he said, Simmias and Cebes, I approach the argument with my
mind thus prepared. But you,
he said. First
refresh my memory, if I seem to have forgotten anything. Simmias, I think, has
doubts and fears that the soul, though more divine and
Now,
said he,
do you reject all of our previous arguments, or only some of
them?
Only some of them,
they replied.
What you think,
he
asked, about the argument in which we said that learning is recollection
and that, since this is so, our soul must necessarily have been somewhere
I,
said Cebes, was wonderfully convinced by it at the
time and I still believe it more firmly than any other
argument.
And I too,
said
Simmias, feel just as he does, and I should be much surprised if I should
ever think differently on this point.
You must, my Theban friend, think differently, if you
persist in your opinion that a harmony is a compound and that the soul is a
harmony made up of the elements that are strung like harpstrings in the body.
Certainly
not, Socrates.
Then do you
see,
said he, that this is just what you say when you assert that
the soul exists before it enters into the form and body of a man, and that it is
composed of things that do not yet exist? For harmony is not what your
comparison assumes it to be. The lyre and the strings and the sounds
I cannot at all,
said Simmias.And yet,
said Socrates, there ought to be
harmony between it and the theory about harmony above all
others.
Yes, there ought,
said Simmias.Well,
said he,
there is no harmony between the two theories. Now which do you prefer,
that knowledge is recollection or that the soul is a harmony?
The former, decidedly, Socrates,
he
replied. For this other came to me without demonstration; it merely
seemed probable
Here is another way of looking at it, Simmias,
said he.
Do you think a harmony or any other composite thing can be in
any other state
Certainly not.
And it can neither do nor suffer anything other than
they do or suffer?
Then a harmony cannot be expected to lead the
elements of which it is composed, but to follow them.
A harmony,
then, is quite unable to move or make a sound or do anything else that is
opposed to its component parts.
Quite unable,
said he.Well
then, is not every harmony by nature a harmony according as it is
harmonized?
I do not
understand,
said Simmias.Would it
not,
said Socrates, be more completely a harmony
Certainly.
Is this true
of the soul? Is one soul even in the slightest degree more completely and to a
greater extent a soul than another, or less completely and to a less
extent?
Not in the least,
said he.Well now,
said he,
one soul is said to possess sense and virtue and to be good, and another
to possess folly and wickedness and to be bad; and is this true?
Yes, it is true.
Now what will those who assume that the soul is a
harmony say that these things—the virtue and the wickedness—in the
soul are? Will they say that this is another kind of harmony and a discord, and
that the soul, which is itself a harmony, has within it another harmony and that
the other soul is discordant and has no other harmony within
it?
I cannot tell,
replied Simmias, but evidently those who make that assumption would say
some thing of that sort.
But we
agreed,
said Socrates,
that one
soul is no more or less a soul than another; and that is equivalent to an
agreement that one is no more and to no greater extent, and no less and to no
less extent, a harmony than another, is it not?
Certainly.
And that which
is no more or less a harmony, is no more or less harmonized. Is that so?
Yes.
But has that which
is no more and no less harmonized any greater or any less amount of harmony, or
an equal amount?
An equal amount.
Then a soul, since it is neither more nor less
That is
so.
And therefore can have no
greater amount of discord or of harmony?
No.
And therefore again one soul can have no greater
amount of wickedness or virtue than another, if wickedness is discord and virtue
harmony?
It cannot.
Or
rather, to speak exactly, Simmias,
Certainly
not.
Then the soul, being
entirely soul, could have no part in wickedness.
How could it, if what we have said is
right?
According to this
argument, then, if all souls are by nature equally souls, all souls of all
living creatures will be equally good.
So it seems, Socrates,
said he.
And,
said Socrates, do you think that
this is true and that our reasoning would have come to this end, if the theory
that the soul is a harmony were correct?
Not in the least,
he replied.Well,
said Socrates, of all the parts that make up a man,
do you think any is ruler except the soul, especially if it be a wise
one?
No, I do
not.
Does it yield to the
feelings of the body or oppose them? I mean, when the body is hot and thirsty,
does not the soul oppose it and draw it away from drinking, and from eating when
it is hungry, and do we not see the soul opposing the body
Certainly.
Did we not
agree in our previous discussion that it could never, if it be a harmony, give
forth a sound at variance with the tensions and relaxations and vibrations and
other conditions of the elements which compose it, but that it would follow them
and never lead them?
Yes,
he
replied, we did, of course.
Well then, do we not now find that the soul acts in exactly the
opposite way, leading those elements of which it is said to consist and opposing
them
Endure it, heart, you have born worse
than this.
By Zeus, Socrates, the latter, I think.
Then, my good friend, it will never do for us to
say that the soul is a harmony; for we should, it seems,
That is true,
said he.Very
well,
said Socrates, Harmonia, the Theban goddess, has, it seems,
been moderately gracious to us; but how, Cebes, and by what argument can we find
grace in the sight of Cadmus?
I
think,
said Cebes, you will find a way. At any rate, you conducted
this argument against harmony wonderfully and better than I expected. For when
Simmias was telling of his difficulty, I wondered if anyone could make head
against
My friend,
said
Socrates, do not be boastful, lest some evil eye put to rout the argument
that is to come. That, however, is in the hands of God. Let us, in Homeric
fashion, charge the foe and test the worth of what you say. Now the sum total of
what you seek is this: You demand a proof that our soul is indestructible
I do not at present wish to take
anything away or to add anything. You have expressed my
meaning.
It is no small thing that you
seek; for the cause of generation and decay must be completely investigated.
Now I will
tell you my own experience in the matter, if you wish; then if anything I say
seems to you to be of any use, you can employ it for the solution of your
difficulty.
Certainly,
said Cebes, I wish to hear your experiences.
Listen then, and I will tell you. When I was young,
Cebes, I was tremendously eager for the kind of wisdom which they call
investigation of nature. I thought it was a glorious thing to know the causes of
everything, why each thing comes into being and why it perishes and why it
exists;
Yes,
said Cebes.Now listen
to this, too. I thought I was sure enough, when I saw a tall man standing by a
short one, that he was, say, taller by a head than the other,
And now,
said
Cebes, what do you think about them?
By Zeus,
said he, I am far from thinking that I know the
cause of any of these things, I who do not even dare to say, when one is added
to one, whether the one to which the addition was made has become two, or the
one which was added, or the one which was added and
If this is so, the mind in arranging things arranges everything and establishes
each thing as it is best for it to be. So if anyone wishes to find the cause of
the generation or destruction or existence of a particular thing, he must find
out what sort of existence, or passive state of any kind, or activity is best
for it. And therefore in respect to
As I considered these things I
was delighted to think that I had found in Anaxagoras a teacher of the cause of
things quite to my mind, and I thought he would tell me whether the earth is
flat or round, and when
And I had determined
that I would find out in the same way about the sun and the moon and the other
stars, their relative speed, their revolutions, and their other changes, and why
the active or passive condition of each of them is for the best. For I never
imagined that, when he said they were ordered by intelligence, he would
introduce any other cause for these things than that it it is best for them to
be as they are.
But it is most absurd to call
things of that sort causes. If anyone were to say that I could not have done
what I thought proper if I had not bones and sinews and other things that I
have, he would be right. But to say that those things are the cause of my doing
what I do,
said he, to give you an account of the way in which I have
conducted my second voyage in quest of the cause?
I wish it with all my heart,
he
replied.After this, then,
said
he, since I had given up investigating realities, I decided that I must
be careful not to suffer the misfortune which happens to people who look at the
sun and watch it during an eclipse. For some of them ruin their eyes unless they
look at its image in water
Now perhaps my metaphor
Not very well,
certainly,
said Cebes.
Well,
said Socrates, this is what I mean. It is nothing
new, but the same thing I have always been saying, both in our previous
conversation and elsewhere. I am going to try to explain to you the nature of
that cause which I have been studying, and I will revert to those familiar
subjects of ours as my point of departure and assume that there are such things
as absolute beauty and good and greatness and the like. If you grant this and
agree that these exist, I believe I shall explain cause to you and shall prove
that
You may assume,
said Cebes, that I
grant it, and go on.
Then,
said he, see if you agree with me in the next step. I think that if
anything is beautiful besides absolute beauty it is beautiful for no other
reason than because it partakes of absolute beauty; and this applies to
everything. Do you assent to this view of cause?
I do,
said he.Now I do not yet, understand,
he went on, nor can I
perceive those other ingenious causes. If anyone tells me that what makes a
thing beautiful is its lovely color,
I do.
And
great things are great and greater things greater by greatness, and smaller
things smaller by smallness?
Yes.
And you would not
accept the statement, if you were told that one man was greater or smaller than
another by a head,
Yes, I should.
Then,
he continued, you would be afraid to say that ten
is more than eight by two and that this is the reason it is more. You would say
it is more by number and by reason of number; and a two cubit measure is greater
than a one-cubit measure not by half but by magnitude, would you not? For you
would have the same fear.
Certainly,
said he.Well,
then, if one is added to one
That is
true,
said Simmias and Cebes together.
Now if you assent to this, do you not, when you say that
Simmias is greater than Socrates and smaller than Phaedo, say that there is in
Simmias greatness and smallness?
Yes.
But,
said
Socrates, you agree that the statement that Simmias is greater than
Socrates is not true as stated in those words. For Simmias is not greater than
Socrates
True.
And again, he is
not smaller than Phaedo because Phaedo is Phaedo, but because Phaedo has
greatness relatively to Simmias’s smallness.
That is true.
Then Simmias
is called small and great, when he is between the two,
And he laughed and said, I seem to he speaking like a
legal document, but it really is very much as I say.
I am
speaking so because I want you to agree with me. I think it is evident not only
that greatness itself will never be great and also small, but that the greatness
in us will never admit the small or allow itself to be exceeded. One of two
things must take place: either it flees or withdraws when
That,
said Cebes, seems to me quite
evident.
In Heaven’s
name, is not this present doctrine the exact opposite of what was fitted in our
earlier discussion, that the greater is generated from the less and the less
from the greater and that opposites are always generated from their opposites?
But now it seems to me we are saying, this can never happen.
You have spoken up like a
man,
he said, but you do not observe the difference between the
present doctrine and what we said before. We said before that in the case of
concrete things opposites are generated from opposites; whereas now we say that
the abstract concept of an opposite can never become its own opposite, either in
us or in the world about us. Then we were talking about things which possess
opposite qualities and are called after them, but now about those very opposites
the immanence of which gives the things their names. We say that these latter
And you—are you troubled by any of our friends’
objections?
No,
said
Cebes, not this time; though I confess that objections often do trouble
me.
Well, we are quite
agreed,
said Socrates, upon this, that an opposite can never be
its own opposite.
Entirely
agreed,
said Cebes.Now,
said
he, see if you agree with me in what follows: Is there something that you
call heat and something you call cold?
Yes.
Are they the same
as snow and fire?
No, not at
all.
But heat is a different
thing from fire and cold differs from snow?
Yes.
Yet I fancy you
believe that snow, if (to employ the form of phrase we used before) it admits
heat, will no longer be what it was, namely snow, and also warm, but will either
withdraw when heat approaches it or will cease to exist.
Certainly.
And similarly fire, when cold approaches it, will either withdraw or
perish. It will never succeed in admitting cold and being still fire,
That is true,
said he.The fact is,
said he, in some such cases,
that not only the abstract idea itself has a right to the same name through all
time, but also something else, which is not the idea, but which always, whenever
it exists, has the form of the idea. But perhaps I can make my meaning clearer
by some examples. In numbers, the odd must always have the name of odd, must it
not?
Certainly.
But is this the only thing so called (for this is
what I mean to ask), or is there something else, which is not
Of course,
he
replied.Now see what I want to make
plain. This is my point, that not only abstract opposites exclude each other,
but all things which, although not opposites one to another, always contain
opposites; these also, we find, exclude the idea which is opposed to the idea
contained in them,
Certainly,
said Cebes.But
the number two is not the opposite of the number three.
No.
Then not
only opposite ideas refuse to admit each other when they come near, but certain
other things refuse to admit the approach of opposites.
Very true,
he said.Shall we then,
said Socrates, determine if we can, what
these are?
Certainly.
Then, Cebes, will they be those
which always compel anything of which they take possession not only to take
their form but also that of some opposite?
What do you mean?
Such
things as we were speaking of just now. You know of course that those things in
which the number three is an essential element must be not only three but also
odd.
Certainly.
Now such a thing can never admit the idea which
is the opposite of the concept which produces this result.
No, it cannot.
But the result was produced by the concept of the
odd?
Yes.
And the opposite of this is the idea
Yes.
Then the idea of
the even will never be admitted by the number three.
No.
Then
three has no part in the even.
No,
it has none.
Then the number three
is uneven.
Yes.
Now I propose to determine what things, without
being the opposites of something, nevertheless refuse to admit it, as the number
three, though it is not the opposite of the idea of even, nevertheless refuses
to admit it, but always brings forward its opposite against it, and
Yes, I
agree entirely,
he said, and am with you.
Then,
said Socrates, please begin again at
the beginning. And do not answer my questions in their own words, but do as I
do. I give an answer beyond that safe answer which I spoke of at first, now that
I see another safe reply deduced from what has just been said. If you ask me
what causes anything in which it is to be hot, I will not give
Quite
sufficiently,
he replied.Now
answer,
said he. What causes the body in which it is to be
alive?
The soul,
he
replied.
Is this always the
case?
Yes,
said he,
of course.
Then if the soul
takes possession of anything it always brings life to it?
Certainly,
he said.Is there anything that is the opposite of
life?
Yes,
said
he.What?
Death.
Now
the soul, as we have agreed before, will never admit the opposite of that which
it brings with it.
Decidedly
not,
said Cebes.Then what do we now
call that which does not admit the idea of the even?
Uneven,
said he.And those which do not admit justice and music?
Unjust,
he replied, and
unmusical.
Well then what do we
call that which does not admit death?
Deathless or immortal,
he said.And the soul does not admit death?
No.
Then the soul is
immortal.
Yes.
Very well,
said he. Shall we say
then that this is proved?
Yes, and
very satisfactorily, Socrates.
Well
then, Cebes,
said he, if the odd were necessarily imperishable,
Of course.
And if that
which is without heat were imperishable, would not snow go away whole and
unmelted whenever heat was brought in conflict with snow? For it could not have
been destroyed, nor could it have remained and admitted the
heat.
That is very true,
he replied.In the same way, I think, if
that which is without cold were imperishable, whenever anything cold approached
fire, it would never perish or be quenched, but would go away
unharmed.
Necessarily,
he
said.
And must not the same be said
of that which is immortal? If the immortal is also imperishable, it is
impossible for the soul to perish when death comes against it. For, as our
argument has shown, it will not admit death and will not be dead, just as the
number three, we said, will not be even, and the odd will not be even, and as
fire, and the heat in the fire, will not be cold. But, one might say, why is it
not possible that the odd does not become even when the even comes against it
(we agreed to that), but perishes,
Certainly.
And so, too, in the case of the immortal; if it
is conceded that the immortal is imperishable, the soul would be imperishable as
well as immortal,
But,
he
said, it is not needed, so far as that is concerned; for surely nothing
would escape destruction, if the immortal, which is everlasting, is
perishable.
All, I think,
said Socrates, would agree that God and the Principle of life, and
anything else that is immortal, can never perish.
All men would, certainly,
said he, and
still more, I fancy, the Gods.
Since, then, the immortal
Necessarily.
Then when death
comes to a man, his mortal part, it seems, dies, but the immortal part goes away
unharmed and undestroyed, withdrawing from death.
So it seems.
Then, Cebes,
said he, it is perfectly certain
I,
said Cebes,
have nothing more to say against that, and I cannot doubt your
conclusions. But if Simmias, or anyone else, has anything to say, he would do
well to speak, for I do not know to what other time than the present he could
defer speaking, if he wishes to say or hear anything about those
matters.
But,
said
Simmias, I don’t see how I can doubt, either, as to the result of the
discussion; but the subject is so great,
Not only that, Simmias,
said Socrates, but
our first assumptions ought to be more carefully examined, even though they seem
to you to be certain. And if you analyze them completely, you will, I think,
follow and agree with the argument, so far as it is possible for man to do so.
And if this is made clear, you will seek no farther.
That is true,
he said.But my friends,
he said, we ought to bear
in mind,
And the journey is not as Telephus
says in the play of Aeschylus;
What do you mean, Socrates? I have heard a good deal about the
earth myself, but not what you believe; so I should like to hear
it.
Well Simmias, I do not think
I need the art of Glaucus to tell what it is. But to prove that it is true
would, I think, be too hard for the art of Glaucus, and perhaps I should not be
able to do it; besides, even if I had the skill, I think my life, Simmias, will
end before the discussion could be finished. However, there is nothing to
prevent my telling
Well,
said Simmias, that will be enough.
I am convinced, then,
said he, that
in the first place, if the earth is round and in the middle of the heavens, it
needs neither the air
And
rightly,
said Simmias.Secondly,
said he, I believe that the earth is very large
and that we who dwell between the pillars of Hercules
For this earth of ours, and the stones and the whole region where we live, are
injured and corroded, as in the sea things are injured by the brine, and nothing
of any account grows in the sea, and there is, one might say, nothing perfect
there, but caverns and sand and endless mud and mire, where there is earth also,
and there is nothing at all worthy to be compared with the beautiful things of
our world. But the things in that world above would be seen to be even more
superior to those in this world of ours.
By all means, Socrates,
said Simmias;
we should be glad to hear this story.
Well then, my friend,
said he, to begin with, the earth
when seen from above is said to look like those balls that are covered with
twelve pieces of leather; it is divided into patches of various colors, of which
the colors which we see here may be regarded as samples, such as painters use.
And the earth there is
adorned with all the jewels and also with gold and
One of the chasms of the earth is greater than the rest,
Now these streams are many and
great and of all sorts, but among the many are four streams, the greatest and
outermost of which is that called Oceanus, which flows round in a circle, and
opposite this, flowing in the opposite direction, is
Those, however, who are curable, but
are found to have committed great sins—who have, for example, in a moment
of passion done some act of violence against father or mother and
You, Simmias and Cebes and the rest,
he said, will go hereafter, each
in his own time; but I am now already, as a tragedian would say, called by fate,
and it is about time for me to go to the bath; for I think it is better to bathe
before drinking the poison, that the women may not have the trouble of bathing
the corpse.
Well, Socrates, do you
wish to leave any directions with us about your children or anything
else—anything we can do to serve you?
What I always say, Crito,
he replied, nothing new. If you
take care of yourselves you will serve me and mine and yourselves, whatever you
do, even if you make no promises now; but if you neglect yourselves and are not
willing to live following step by step, as it were, in the path marked out by
our present and past discussions, you will accomplish nothing,
We will certainly try
hard to do as you say,
he replied. But how shall we bury
you?
However you please,
he replied, if you can catch me and I do not get away from you.
And he laughed gently, and looking towards us, said: I cannot persuade
Crito, my friends, that the Socrates who is now conversing and arranging the
details of his argument is really I; he thinks I am the one whom he will
presently see as a corpse,
he said, give security for me to Crito, the
opposite of that which he gave the judges at my trial; for he gave security that
I would remain, but you must give security that I shall not remain when I die,
No, you must be
of good courage, and say that you bury my body,—and bury it
Socrates, I shall not find fault with you, as I do with others,
for being angry and cursing me, when at the behest of the authorities, I tell
them to drink the poison. No, I have found you in all this time in every way the
noblest and gentlest and best man who has ever come here, and now I know your
anger is directed against others, not against me, for you know who are blame.
Now, for you know the message I came to bring you, farewell and try to bear what
you must
And he
burst into tears and turned and went away. And Socrates looked up at him and
said: Fare you well, too; I will do as you say.
And then he said
to us: How charming the man is! Ever since I have been here he has been
coming to see me and talking with me from time to time, and has been the best of
men, and now how nobly he weeps for me! But come, Crito, let us obey him, and
let someone bring the poison, if it is ready; and if not, let the man prepare
it.
And Crito said:
But I
think, Socrates, the sun is still upon the mountains and has not yet set; and I
know that others have taken the poison very late, after the order has come to
them, and in the meantime have eaten and drunk and some of them enjoyed the
society of those whom they loved. Do not hurry; for there is still
time.
Crito,
those whom you mention are right in doing as they do, for they think they gain
by it; and I shall be right in not doing as they do;
he said, do as I ask and do not
refuse.
Well, my good
man, you know about these things; what must I do?
Nothing,
he replied, except drink the poison and walk about
What do you say about
pouring a libation to some deity from this cup? May I, or not?
Socrates,
said he, we prepare only as much as we think is
enough.
I understand,
said Socrates;
but I may and must pray to the gods that my departure
hence be a fortunate one; so I offer this prayer, and may it be granted.
With these words he raised the cup to his lips and very cheerfully and quietly
drained it. Up to that time most of us had been able to restrain our tears
fairly well, but when we watched him drinking and saw that he had drunk the
poison, we could do so no longer, but in spite of myself my tears rolled down in
floods, so that I wrapped my face in my cloak and wept for myself; for it was
not for him that I wept,
What conduct is
this, you strange men! I sent the women away chiefly for this very reason, that
they might not behave in this absurd way; for I have heard that
Then we were ashamed and controlled our tears. He walked about
and, when he said his legs were heavy, lay down on his back, for such was the
advice of the attendant. The man who had administered the poison laid his hands
on him and after a while examined his feet and legs, then pinched his foot hard
and asked if he felt it. He said No
;
Crito, we owe a cock to Aesculapius. Pay it and do not
neglect it.
That,
said Crito, shall be done; but see
if you have anything else to say.
To this question he made no reply, but
after a little while he moved; the attendant uncovered him; his eyes were fixed.
And Crito when he saw it, closed his mouth and eyes.