2nd Public Program April 28th 1982 Rome, Italy

I bow to all the seekers of truth.

Yesterday I gave you an introduction to the spontaneous happening of Self-realisation through Sahaja yoga. There is no other method than the spontaneous and the living process. As all the seeds sprout the same way, in the same manner, your awakening also takes the same way.

Today, especially as asked by someone, I would like to tell you about the aspect of the deities on these centres. It's written in the Bible that "thou shall not recreate anything or reproduce anything that is created by the Mother Earth or the sky and worship it." But the first part is, people, pay more attention to the second part where it says "whatever is created by Mother Earth and the sky". Now, what is created by the sky and what is created by Mother Earth? The one that one can worship.

You'll be amazed that this Mother Earth understands much more than we know. And this Mother Earth produces through her being such stones or such images which have a coefficient which emits vibrations. For example, in England, we have a place called Stonehenge. For a normal person, it is something mysterious but it is produced by the Mother Earth and it is placed in three and a half coils exactly. But some people who did not understand the meaning of it took up the stones and placed them on top of other stones and there is a cult which blindly goes and worships the place. But if a realised soul goes there he can feel the vibrations of that place.

Now for you to understand where it is a real thing coming out or not the best way is to get Realisation. I just saw the photograph of Stonehenge and I said that is a place of worship. But those who are not realised also go and worship there, it has no meaning. Because if you are not a realised soul you are not connected and you do not understand what you are doing. And thousands of years have passed, these stones are standing as they are.

Now also people have found out that when the magnet is used on the ground there are some places where it tips down - means there is more magnetism coming from the Mother Earth and it pulls it down. These are the possible spots where later on the Mother Earth may bring out that kind of a stone which has that coefficient.

For example, the stone that they worship in Mecca is already mentioned in the Puranas, in the ancient books of India. It is called as Macceshwarshiv, so it is true that that stone has a power to emit vibrations. Now in the Islamic religion, it was prohibited absolutely, as in Christianity, to worship any statue. Because the reproduction of any one of these will be done mostly by people who are money-oriented. And these money-oriented people cannot produce that effect out of the stone, of whatever material they use, which is genuine and divine.

For example, Notre dame has got a statue of Mother Mary which is very vibrating because it is done by some unknown artist who was a realised soul. Here also the Sistine Chapel in the Vatican is very vibrating because it was created by Michelangelo who was a realised soul. So the one that is created by a realised soul is vibrating.

In India we have places where there is a Shiva's Temple, are formed on such swayambhu, it's come out of itself. We have got 12 jyotirlingas and actually, they are divided, the two last are divided into two halves, means they are in two places. But for a person who is not realised it is just the same whether they worship a Shiva Linga or they worship any other thing, it has no meaning, they don't understand, they are blind.

In the beginning, when the search for the spirit started, people saw deities placed on these centres. But when they saw that these centres had these deities they made statues out of them. And they started praying to those statues. So if they had to get to the nectar or to the honey in the flower they started talking about the flower. And that is how they got lost in the flower. Now the thing was when a person like Christ or a person like Mohammed, all these people came on this earth, they saw that this idolatry was going on of the things which are not vibrated and the people who are blind. So they started talking only about the honey so that people should care for the honey. Of course, all of them said that “you must get your second birth, that you must get your Self-realisation”.

I think Sahaja yogis can come forward so others can sit down there. Now come forward and sit here, enjoy. You are alright. Young people, you can sit there. Let them come forward.

They thought it is better to talk about the honey that is contained in the flower and put the attention of people on the honey itself. But their followers have not realised souls and because they were not realised souls they started their own ideas about getting to the honey. So they talked about a god without a form. But they also talked, talked and talked. They did not follow what these great incarnations said that you have to be born again. Human beings are very good at making a mess of everything that is real.

So to get to the honey what has to happen? That you have to become the bee. If you are not the bee you cannot get to the honey, whether we talk of the honey or of the flower. Why these people talk so much that they built up dogmas after dogmas, all artificial.

The simple thing was to get Realisation which is a very very simple thing done by the Kundalini that is within you. Some people also thought of the Kundalini but they also made a big dogma out of it. With these dogmas, you cannot reach there. On the contrary, with these dogmas, people only fight and have hatred for each other. And these dogmas only have made all these religions, or we can say all these praises of God, as useless. It is why it’s becoming a kind of a quarrelling place - Medina, for people.

Like in England now the pope is coming, they are fighting that Catholicism and Protestantism are fundamentally separate, different. They have only one fundamental and that is Christ. They all talk of God and how there can be fundamentally different? To me, a simple person like me, I can't understand quite these quarrels of the intellectuals and their flights.

If you have to eat the fruit better eat the fruit. And what's the use of counting the leaves and fighting what number they are? So the mind or the attention was taken away from these deities for this reason that people should not get entangled with them, may reproduce their statues and worship them. And no use doing that. There are 12 Shivas I told you and there are so many of the Vishnu, real ones, and there are 8 Vinayaka, Ganeshas, in India, 28 of the Primordial Mother. But what's the use? Indians are hopelessly bad. They are not realised, people. Maybe because of these vibrations they are rather frightened of God and they don't take to things which are not good for sustenance easily, as other people have done. But they are very materialistic, they could be more materialistic than the western people. For in England I have very few Indian disciples. So even if they belong to a place where there are vibrations going on, it may have no effect on them. It's like rain falling on the upside-down pot.

Now today when I talk of deities one must know that there is one God and He has one power which is Love. This Divine Love is the Shakti, is the power which is, we call her as the Primordial Mother if He is the Primordial Father. Now I am one person but I've got a heart, I've got a liver, I've got a brain and I've got my digestive system. And the whole thing is a very complicated system. When we say, “I have one God”, we think He is like the rock of Gibraltar. He is a living God and He has different aspects which are represented as different deities. And that what has reflected in you also because God created this Earth to see His reflection. This universe is His mirror and when human beings become perfect, when they get their Realisation and improve onto them, they reflect God fully in themselves.

Now it is said in the Bible that God made man on His own image. Now supposing this is the image of man, so God has to be something like this. And this image has got 7 centres within it mainly so God also has got 7 centres within himself. So this image of man has the most important organ as the heart. And in that heart resides the God Almighty as Spirit. In Sanskrit he's called as Sadashiva, in Arabic he's called as Rahim and in the Bible, he is called as Jehovah. Now His power is the Holy Ghost, is the Primordial Mother, is expressed in the human beings in the Kundalini that is in the triangular bone.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside: "Can you come up some more?]

In the beginning, they are both one, and it's the state of entropy where they are sleeping. At that state, they are called as Parabrahma. You must excuse me because I am using Sanskrit words because there are no English words for this. Italian is better but French is much worse because there is no word for awareness. Because as I told you in India it was the search in the root that gets evolved all this knowledge. Actually "Sanskrit" means "made holy".

Now this, the Parabrahma is the One that is a sleeping state, where nothing is created. Then the Parabrahma awakens, it's an eternal process. When it is awakened then the desire of God, or love of God, wants to create. So He separates His power, the Primordial Power, from Himself and this Primordial Power creates. In the same way in a human being, it is reflected the power of desire on one side, and on the right side - the power of creativity or power of action.

Now with this power, which is the active power, God's Primordial Power becomes two powers; that is first of desire and then divides into two: first is the power of desire and third - the power of action. It’s separate from the God Almighty who is the witness of the play of the Primordial Mother. Now there is a third power which is within us placed and that third power is the power of Evolution or the power of Sustenance. By this power, we have become from amoeba to human beings. Now after becoming the human being we become the higher human being where we get related to the whole by the awakening of this primordial power which is the Holy Ghost placed within us as Kundalini, reflected within us.

Now the first centre which is placed below the Kundalini is the centre of your innocence. It's the child within you. We can say, in evolution - till we became the carbon atom. [Unclear] centre is called as Shri Ganesha.

Now the same Shri Ganesha incarnates on this earth much later as Mahavishnu at this point as Our Lord Jesus Christ. So when people say that "you have to go through Christ", it's a fact and ultimately the Kundalini has to pass through that centre. At the Sistine chapel that's what Michelangelo has painted, it is this centre. This centre is placed between the pituitary and the pineal body in the optic chiasm means the crossing of the optic nerve. And some people call it a "third eye". And it has to be pierced through ultimately, otherwise, you cannot get your Realisation. So the message of Christ's resurrection is this: that He crossed through that small gate to become the Resurrected so that you all could be resurrected. So the time of your resurrection is now. But it cannot be done by just an artificial type of baptism. There Christ has to be awakened only through the awakening of the Kundalini by someone who knows the job, who is authorised by God, not by a theological university. Actually, they will never recognize Christ. Christ has said, "You will be calling me, 'Christ, Christ', and I won't know you."

Now, what is the importance of this happening, that Christ is to be awakened, why? Why is it necessary that He must be awakened within us? Because Christ is the incarnation of the Energy of God that is innocence and that was awakened here, sucked in two pouches that are above, called as Ego and Superego. When we work with our action power we thing we are doing the work. But actually, you do not do any work. What you do is a dead work. Like a tree has fallen, so you make it into a chair, you think, "I am a great furniture maker." From dead to the dead. But we don't do anything that is living. We can't make the trees grow, we can't make the flowers. And so beautifully organized that a mango tree will give you a mango, without any confusion. This kind of complicated work that is done in millions and billions of times is done by the real Doer, that is the Primordial Ego. Ours is a false one.

It is like some villagers wanted to go by plane and they were told not to take too much luggage because it would be too much for the plane to carry. So they put the luggage on their heads in the plane thinking they're making the plane little lighter. Our Ego is that absurd.

So this Ego develops within us as a result of our action and the ignorance that "we are doing it". The Superego develops within us when we start getting conditioned. They are born in India, you are born in Italy and start thinking, "I am an Indian", you start thinking, "You are an Italian", all this starts from the very beginning. A person is given the name Alexander, he thinks he is Great Alexander. Moreover, if you are told not to do it, you become a sort of quite apprehensive that this should not be done, out of fear.

There was a lady in India, used to fast on all the five days in the week. So I asked her, "Why do you fast five days, it's too much." She said, "My father fasted on Monday, my mother fasted on Tuesday", like that - all her relation fasted on some day or other and that's why for five days she was fasting. So it comes from the animal heritage that we start to mimic others and start taking conditionings upon ourselves.

So that is how we either live with the Ego or with the Superego. And there was a big theory of karma started from the time of Shri Krishna who lived 6000 years back in India. And he said that when you will become realised then you will become "karm-atit", means you go beyond karma. But he never said that you can for your karmas, you can clean them or washed them off like that.

But even the people who followed Christ never understood him. Because when the missionaries went from here to India they never told that Christ is already born, it was promised in the Puranas, and that He is the One that is going to suck our karmas. That's how these politically oriented people went there, that they had no idea what Christ was for. They went there just to have more people, converting them so that democratically, it had democracy, they will be able to rule politically. What does it matter if the donkey is a Christian, Hindu or Muslim? No wonder Christ trod on the donkey.

The purpose of his life was to give you resurrection. He is called as "Mahavishnu" in the Puranas, in the Devi Mahatmyam, where the Mother Goddess of Christ is producing him in the Heaven first. [Shri Mataji speaks aside: The mother Goddess it the Virgin Mary, that's right.] And Mary was an incarnation of the central power called "Mahalakshmi".

If they had just mentioned just the quality of Christ the Indians would have known what is He. He was Mahavishnu which is promised thousands of years back, that he will come and He will be the Saviour, he will work for sucking our Ego and Superego. Now when the whole situation was that they did not know that He has arrived and that He is the same as Mahavishnu described, naturally people still went on with their karma theories. Though it is in our ancient astrology described that this time will be coming and that there will be a method by which this Kundalini will be awakened spontaneously and people will get their Realisation. So people were waiting only for this, not understanding that Mahavishnu has not yet arrived and how is this going to happen. As everywhere people were so very money-oriented and they created big religious things and temples, and this and that, and making money out of it. Everywhere where the vibrations are and where the real has come out of the Mother Earth there is a big nice temple and now they are making big money out of that. Recently, I am happy to say, that most of them are now taken over by the government. Of course, the government also doesn't understand anything about vibrations. At least they will not make money out of it.

So this is the great deity of Christ which appeared here where there is a red mark on my head on that crossing of the optic chiasm. So in the heart resides God Almighty as a witness, as the Spirit, and the Holy Ghost in the triangular bone as sleeping Kundalini.

Now the second one actually is in the navel, the Navel centre. This is the centre which represents on our side our desire for our well-being, desire for food and provisions. This centre looks after the digestive system and is bestowed upon by the deity of Shri Vishnu or Narayana, as you call it. The one which is the Father, who gives us all the provisions, who sustains us, the One who incarnates on this earth to lead us in our evolution. And this deity is important, very important, as it is the one that creates that path called as "Sushumna" for our Realisation. It is the deity that gives us our awareness and when it is whole it becomes our brain. At that time He is called as the "Great Primordial Master", so it is the Primordial Being. In Sanskrit, He is called as "Virata" and in the Quran, He is called as "Akbar". So the whole Primordial Being is here, and Shiva is in the heart and Virata is in the brain.

Now from this centre arises another centre which is, actually looks at the second centre, but it's the third centre of Swadishthana. The navel centre, or the Nabhi chakra, manifests outside, in the gross, with the solar plexus, while the third centre, Swadishthana, manifests outside, in the gross the aortic plexus which looks after our creativity. So the creator aspect which is called as "Brahmadeva" is placed on that. Now, this Creator creates five elements and out of that it creates the earth ultimately and on that lives Vishnu to create human beings or material things he creates.

Now it goes around the Navel centre and this is a place where we call in our Sahaja Yoga as Void, it's the hiatus. When Moses crossed over the Mediterranean Sea it is symbolic of our crossing the Void. So this Void, or this Ocean of Knowledge or Attention, is frequented or incarnated by the powers of the Primordial Masters. They come on this earth to tell us what is our sustenance, how to be in balance. The Ten Commandments are the ten sustenance we have within ourselves. They are the people of Dattatreya, the people who incarnated as Dattatreya are the people like we can say like Abraham, Moses, Socrates in the West and Mohammed, Nanaka, like them, ten of them are divided as the incarnations of this Primordial spirit of the Master, Gurus. And the last of all was in India about 100 years back called Shirdi Sai Natha. He's done a lot of work in India, but not this new one, he is an imposter. Because he puts before his name that he is the true one. If you are true you don't put before your name that you are true.

These great prophets or great incarnations came on this earth to teach us how to lead our life in balance, in purity and in holiness. But why to live with all holiness and purity, for what? Because if you are not in balance it is difficult to raise your Kundalini. A person who is an extremist is like a person who stands on one leg. Even a person who sits on a cycle has to balance it. Anything that has to move has to be vertical and in balance. Have you seen any bicycle going like that all the time? But we are like those racers who go round and round and round in a circular way, it's a very absurd and an abnormal method the way we are extremists.

I mean, you tell anything, even to the seekers, they go to the extremes. Moderation is the key of life. If you overdo something you really spoil this delicately built body of a human being. Yesterday I told you about the centre that is called as Swadishthana which transforms your fat for the use of the brain that thinks too much. Now I was told that Italians are very fond of the sun. That is the sun line, right side. Sun, a little bit is alright, in moderation. But why sit the whole day? The brain is made of fat and the whole fat will melt and by the time you are 40 years you'll end up in a lunatic asylum. Apart from that, your liver will be spoiled. They say that it makes the skin brown. What is the need to have brown skin? I don't understand. Because if so then it is better to marry black people and have brown children. That is the best solution. It will give integration and racialism will go away and you won't have to burn your head in the sun. And too much sun gives so many other problems, like skin cancer you might develop. You might develop also [UNCLEAR] which is a horrible thing, that all the time you feel like vomiting, you can't eat any food and you are skinny. Too much sitting in the sun has so many problems that I will give one complete lecture to tell you how horrible it is. Of course, there are vitamins in the sun and for D vitamin you can take tablets, but don't waste your health. Nowadays there are people who are having in the house some sort of a solarium to burn their skin. Are we all becoming cinema actresses? This idea I think has come from them because when they take their photographs, you should see, they are all painted in dark colours. Whatever God has made you, you are beautiful. In India, people hate to go to the sun because they think they will become brown. And it is difficult to get married to a girl who is brown in India. Just the other way around here, this idea that this is mostly relative.

So all these things take you to extremes. Like some people want to slim so much that they look like mosquitoes. And horrible looking they call themselves beauties? Such people are extremely hot-tempered and they will divorce very easily. Of course one should not be very fat, but that doesn't mean that you should be abnormally interested in things which are not of use. All the extreme behaviours make you absolutely abnormal.

Now we do not say that we do not drink or do not smoke. Because if I say that then half of you will go away. But as soon as you get your Realisation you forget it. Then you don't have to be told, the religion is born within you. It is an enlightened religion, then you'll just avoid anything that is wrong for your health, that is wrong for your healthy mental attitude. Emotionally you become so [UNCLEAR] that good relations are established in the family, in otherwise also. And as you become collectively conscious you become conscious of the whole. And that is how you exist in complete harmony and complete bliss of God.

Because I have to these other three centres, out of which I've done with Agnya and the other two I will to tomorrow. Because Realisation is the most important thing, not talking. And if you want later on, once you are realised, then you can get my tapes from London and from other places. I have been to America, all places, and you can listen to them for further knowledge.

But the first and foremost thing, is a very serious problem of today, is how to get to your Self? So forgetting everything you must first get your Self-realisation. Yesterday some people, I was told, were saying, "What is so great in getting the cool breeze around?" Now, if I give you a diamond you won’t know the value of it if you are not a jeweller. But you’ll have to go to the market to find its value. In the same way, when you get this cool breeze, the feeling, it is the All-Pervading power which does all the living activities, that vibrates in your heart as pulsation, that vibrates in every atom and every molecule, that gives gravity to Mother Earth and that is the one that gives you meaning. Once you get that then you'll be amazed how it blesses you. Not only that you get material, physical, emotional and mental blessings but also you get complete protection. You will be surprised gradually when you will see after Realisation - every moment you are protected and guided as if angels are looking after you. 

There are some many miraculous things that have happened but I cannot tell you all of them in a small thing like this. But for example, there was a girl who was coming from a village to see me in Bombay. And she met with an accident, that girl, the whole bus came down, twice rolling down, it fell out 20 feet down, and it fell on four wheels and nobody was harmed at all. And the driver runs away with the fear. But there was a man on the bus who knew how to drive and he got into the bus and he started the thing and he came upon the road. Indians are very sensitive to saintliness. So they started asking, "Who is the saint within us? Who is the realised soul because of whom we are safe?" But this girl felt shy to tell. But she had a ring with My photograph so they said, "Then Mataji has saved us and this girl is the saint with us."