2SER FM radio Interview with Shri Mataji, Sydney (Australia) May 6th, 1987 Question: What is Sahaja Yoga? Shri Mataji: Sahaja: 'saha’ means with, ‘ja’ means born. Born with you is sahaja. Yoga means union with the Divine, that is, spontaneous union with the Divine. Question: And is it for all ages? Shri Mataji: Yes; for all ages; for everyone. It is an evolutionary process which ends up with your ultimate goal, and that is to become the Spirit. And so it is meant for everyone. Question: And how does it differ from other forms of yoga? Shri Mataji: Other forms of yogas are leading to this one so that you are purified to receive this spontaneous yoga. But there is no need to do anywhere of these; you can get your realisation without doing anything, any one of them. Question: What is Self-Realisation? Shri Mataji: Self-Realisation is that, so far the Spirit – which is in your heart, which is witnessing your activities, but does not come into play, into your actions nor into your intelligence, nor into your attention – but once you get self-realised then the Spirit, the light of the Spirit shines and that's how your whole attitude towards life changes. You become a transformed personality. Question: Are You the only person that can give Self-Realisation? Shri Mataji: No. There are many Sahaja Yogis who can give Self-Realisation to many people. Question: Shri Mataji, it’s written in the publicity that I read that, You can actually give Self-Realisation en masse. Shri Mataji: Yes. Question: Why is this possible? Shri Mataji: The time has come for giving en masse realisation I think; I am making the best of it. Question is: And in what ways does one's life change once one has Self-Realisation? Shri Mataji: A Sahaja Yogi is a person whose guideline is his Spirit. Thus he is standing at a point which is absolute. He is not relatively looking after his life; he is on an absolute point: means whatever he does is the absolute truth. He doesn't take to anything that is untruth, which is false, which is superficial. That’s how he is absolutely tranquil and peaceful and dynamic. And he has all the qualities of a very good gentleman, like he is righteous, he is very pure and also he is very virtuous. We need people of that kind today, to make a new world. Question: Do You think the world is in a very precarious situation? Shri Mataji: It is, very much. You can see all around, it is in a very precarious way placed and this is the time when one starts thinking of getting to something better or to get out of it, and that’s the time when it works out the best. Question: And in what other countries is there Sahaja Yoga? Shri Mataji: It’s a big list. There are about fourteen to fifteen countries altogether, involved in Sahaja Yoga. And to name them, we can say U.K, France, Spain, Austria, Australia, of course, is first. Then we have on the other side is Switzerland, Germany. What else, America: about fifteen countries altogether. Algeria. Question: Why are You called the Mother? Shri Mataji: 'Mother’ – because I gave them the second birth. [laughs] Question: Well, that’s a very simple answer. Shri Mataji: [laughs] That’s the answer. The one who gives you the birth is the mother, isn't it? And that's how they call Me the Mother. But also, the mother's qualities are needed today. The patience, the love, the compassion, the understanding and also commanding the confidence of all the children, is only in a mother. That’s why it is better to be a mother. Question: And how difficult do You think it is to live a life once you become, to live the life that’s meant to be, once you become involved with Sahaja Yoga? Shri Mataji: It is the easiest life to lead because you then come across people who are very good. They are of the same type, a good rapport is there – very great friendship, a big fraternity – and also you find life much more interesting that, you do not think about them but you enjoy everything. So the life is much easier after realisation. You become very dynamic, all your problems get solved, your health improves. So in every way, it is such a great blessing. Question: I don't have any more questions but is there anything else that You’d like to add? Shri Mataji: Yes. That now, we are standing at a point where evolution has reached us to human awareness and that is not absolute. We have to jump to a higher awareness and that is the Spirit and that, one has to be achieved by everyone. Otherwise, there is no solution for all kinds of problems people are facing today. Thank you. Interviewer: Thank You. [Interviewer switches off the tape recorder] Shri Mataji: It has come all right? Interviewer: I hope so. I‘ll just rewind a little bit. [checks the recording] Yogini: Excuse me Shri Mataji, would You like a cup of tea or coffee or something? Shri Mataji: I’ll have but let her have something. Yogini: [to Interviewer] Would you like a cup of tea or coffee? Interviewer: Some tea, thank you. [they listen to playback of recording] Shri Mataji: There’s one more thing I would like to say is this... Interviewer: I’ve got to turn it on first. Shri Mataji: This is a living process; living process of evolution for which you cannot pay. This is one thing people should understand that, you cannot pay for anything that is spiritual. Anybody who collects the money in the name of God is doing a wrong thing, so one has to be careful: that you cannot pay for your evolution. Should be understood logically and then you must act that, don't trust people who ask for money for anything that is spiritual. [recording is switched off again] Very good questions. [Interviewer: Thank You.] Straightforward. Yeah. [Yogini gives out the tea] Shri Mataji: I didn’t give all the names of all the countries. I don’t know which I missed [Yogis: Belgium and Holland. India] Belgium and Holland. And India. Of all the things! [Shri Mataji laughs] Interviewer: I can put that in the introduction. I can say that there are some more countries. Shri Mataji: Yes, that you can say. You see, after all, missing India is all right. Doesn't matter. [aside: He doesn’t eat sweet, much.][speaks in Hindi to Yogis] What radio is this? Interviewer: It’s Radio 2SER FM and tonight, what I’ll do is I’ll take it and I’ll edit it and I’ll put it on to reel to reel and prepare it, so that they can broadcast it tomorrow. Between ten and twelve, because the public program is tomorrow night and Friday night, so it had to go to air tomorrow morning. Shri Mataji: Yes. Tomorrow is the program, isn't? [Yogis: Yes, yes, tomorrow night.] Tomorrow night? Interviewer: Yes, tomorrow. Sahaja Yogis: Tomorrow night, at seven thirty. Shri Mataji: Before that, if it is, I think but also – you must also give that place... Interviewer: Yes. I’ll do that. Shri Mataji: That she will do. Interviewer: In the conclusion, I will say... Shri Mataji: Yes, you can say that, this is the place where we are having it. Because otherwise, they’ll telephone to you one after another. Interviewer: Yes, and ask where it is. Yeah, we’ll do that. And anything that wasn’t covered in that, I can actually cover in the introduction or the conclusion. Shri Mataji: No, it’s all right, I think it’s very straightforward. See, for common people, when they’re listening to any radio, they don’t want to hear a big sort of a philosophical treaties. They are very happy with small little crisp answers which goes into their heads very easily, and then their curiosity is there, so they come to the program. That’s much better. [Shri Mataji talks with other people in the room] Sydney, there people are much more receptive, aren’t they? Even there, that gentleman was all right, but so anxious to get his realisation and he was in a big hurry, you see. His Kundalini, the Kundalini was rising but he couldn't feel it. It used to go back to his Vishuddhi, go back to his Nabhi. I didn't know what to do with it. Poor fellow. Sahaja Yogi: There’s been a big difference Mother, since Sunday. I came back early and I’ve been talking to the press since Sunday, and people who were not very interested before are now interested. Sahaja Yogi 2: The changes are starting already. Shri Mataji: [laughing] Yes, the atmosphere changes, everything changes. Indian Sahaja Yogi: I was trying to contact Aurangabad. The lady who was trying to contact us, but I found my [unclear/inclination] different. ‘Are you an Australian?’ I said, ‘No, I am from India.’ She said, ‘You have come recently?’ I said, ‘Only this morning.’ ‘Where are you staying?’ I said, ‘I am staying in an ashram, a Sahaja Yogi ashram.’ She said, ‘What is this ashram?’ I said, ‘My sister is Mataji, and She has founded this Sahaja Yoga ashram and people belong to Sahaja Yoga.’ She said, ’Is it Nirmala Devi Mataji?’ I said, ‘Yes, but how do you know?’ She said, ‘We have been reading in papers.’ [even though he calls Shri Mataji his sister, this is not Babamama’s voice] Shri Mataji: Who are they? Indian Sahaja Yogi: The local telephone operator. I was really surprised. [Sahaja Yogi: So was I!] Yes, yes, you were there. Shri Mataji: No, if the media wants, you know. Actually it is en masse and also there was never a media like this, you see. If the media wants, they can help the whole world, isn't it? [Interviewer: That’s true.] They have to give the truth to the people, but if they do not want to do it – I mean they are the ones who will be held responsible. Indian Sahaja Yogi: The media is divided in two parts: one who gives real, truthful accounts, the other which it does not. Shri Mataji: Another thing is also that, you see when they become sort of doubtful about it, they say: ‘First give us the realisation and then we will do it,’ which is very difficult. Sometimes you can't give them, so it’s being very selfish. I mean, if I can't give realisation to someone, that doesn't mean that there isn't something like that. But in Italy, when I went there, there was a fellow called Romano. He’s a big fan of people, a very interesting person. He said, ‘Mother, I must ask You one thing.’ I said, ‘What?’ ‘Please give me realisation.’ I said, ‘I have to broadcast.’ He said, ‘First give me realisation; it will be a good idea.’ So I gave him the realisation and he laughed and, ‘Ah, so the joke is over. The joke is over.’ [Shri Mataji laughs]I said, ‘What about our program?’ He said, ‘No, we’ll have the program.’ Then we went to one place and he said, ‘These are all monkeys here, they can’t understand Sahaja Yoga.’ I said, 'Why?' He said, ‘They won't understand any Sahaja Yoga, Mother. You just don't talk to them.’ I said, ‘All right.’ But then he gave Me such a big publicity in Milano, and then we went to a hill station. He gathered about six to seven hundred people there and gave Me such a big publicity, you can’t imagine, the Romano fellow. Wonderful person. Sahaja Yogi: It’s very different this time, Mother. Last time, Your last visit, the people on the press who were interested, were sensational, they wanted something clever, some big trick. This time, the same people are not interested. This time they, the people who are showing interest are receptive to the message. It's quite remarkable. It’s happening down in Melbourne too. All the sensationalists are not interested. So hopefully, we’ll get a very good coverage. Shri Mataji: You see, this sensation business also comes from materialism, I think. That man, he – human beings are becoming matter, so they need some sensations in their body to come up to something. [laughing] They can’t see something very obvious and good for them. They need some sensation. Like this gentleman asked Me, ‘We have to go outside on the street.’ I said, ‘Street it won't work out because, you see this is a serious subject. How can I discuss with you on the street, you see?’ So he compromised on a garden. We went to the garden and all the clouds started going there. Then he said, ‘All right, now that’s over, now we’ll start the whole thing.’ And then it started raining, after that he gave up. Sahaja Yogi: Started raining just as we were trying to give him realisation. Heavens were warning us. Shri Mataji: You see, there are people who are thinking, who are worried, who want to do something great. But we have to approach them somehow with this; approach is to be built up. Once that is built up there is no problem. But that’s the main thing is. The right type of people we should meet. Like, first time I went to Italy, we had informed the newspaper to advertise and I stayed in a hotel: one girl was with Me. Nobody contacted us. Nobody came in the hall. Not even a single soul. Nothing worked out. So we went back, spending all that money. And now in Italy, you can imagine, at the airport, if you go, the whole of the airport is nothing but Sahaja Yogis. It happens like that. Same with our Calcutta. First time when I went to Calcutta, there was one person in the hall, one person. And this time when I went there, their biggest hall they have was given to us and the crowds was so much, they were all saying' Ma, Ma' and nobody could come inside because the hall was all full, and thousands and thousands were waiting outside. And now it has taken such a form, that even the cinema actors went there to collect money for our school in Calcutta. I mean, you can't believe the same Calcutta where there was only one single soul sitting in a big hall and I thought this fellow also will run away after five minutes [laughs]. It does change gradually. But one should not be shocked with the first appearances, you see. It’s all... Sahaja Yogi: [to Interviewer] Is that all for the interview? Interviewer: Yes. Shri Mataji: All right, thank you very much. May God bless you. Interviewer: Thank You. Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. [She leaves the room] [Yogis and Interviewer discuss the recording]