YUVA दृष्टि Oct.-Dec.2014 The Spirit is the one where the heart is, which makes the whole thing circulate. (25-07-1986)

 Inside This Issue Soul & Spirit ...4 Talk to Doctors - Hormones ...8 श्री ईसा विश्व के आधार ...१८

 Soul and Spirit Italy, 25th July1986

 Chakras are reflected in Shri Mataji's glass. Shri Mataji: ...then it [the liqht) comes in there. This [the glass) is the body. All the 5 Koshas, the 5 auras, Koshas, are there. So these 5 Koshas are managed by the 5 elements, the essence of which can be called the causal element, the causal of the... Gregoire: .. the causal of the five elements. What we know as Atma in Sanskrit, is it the Soul plus the Spirit, or only the Spirit? Shri Mataji: Jivatma is the soul but Atma is the Spirit. Gregoire: So Jivatma is the Spirit but individualized;. belonging to one person? Shri Mataji: No, no! Jivatma is the soul. Means with these five elements. And these five elements give you your own identity, your own character, your own particularities etc. These five elements; the way they are placed in you. That's the causal element, the causal of the elements that are within you. Then these causals act on the chakras and through the chakras these causals act on the other ...on the grosser side. So from the subtle to the subtler to the...you can say the subtlest. The subtlest we can say is the Spirit, supposing. Then the subtler is the soul. And the subtle you have the chakras. And the gross is the body. Gregoire: So England should reflect on Italy then? [Mother, on a previous occasion, had told us that while England is the spirit, Italy is the soul of the Universe) Shri Mataji: The soul is ...That's why all the art grew from here [Italy]. Now soul is the essence of all the elements of this Europe, which is here. And England is the reflection. So England has to reflect on Italy. Warren: See, the water in the glass is reflecting the light. England is the light and the light has to shine out of Italy which is the water. Imean the rive elements in a way. Shri Mataji: And Spirit can move out of soul. That's why the Romans went all the way to England. This is the reason, in that seeking. [Referring to the food being served] What is this supposed to be? Gregoire: So in a certain sense the soul is the support of the Spirit? Shri Mataji: No, no! Soul ...Yes, of course. And both put together is the Soul actually. The Spirit and the causal put together is the Soul. You see, like a mirror and its reflection on it. Both put together is the soul. The causal of the five elements and the Spirit put together make the soul. Now the vibrations that we feel are the reflection of the light of the Spirit. The Spirit does not vibrate. It does not vibrate. It is those elements, they vibrate. Like you can say that if you put a sound on top of this (a glass of water) it will vibrate. You can put a stone in it, the stone won't vibrate. But this will vibrate. The Spirit when it shines over it...(to Gregoire who translates) You have your food. From soul to food, from food to soul. Guido: So in that sense, by soul you mean the Jivatma? The Jivatma of Europe. Shri Mataji: But the Atma besides can move out. So the Atma has gone out of it which is a mistake. Now they have to recognize Italy. Then the Atma will be reflected. Because Atma can leave the soul. So the Atma has left the soul. There's no Atma here. The Atma has to be brought here.

 The English have to come .....I mean the England has to come here, in the sense that they have to appreciate the greatness of this country. Then it will spread. You are the ones who can reflect the Spirit. You can reflect the Spirit. The spirit doesn't do anything. The Spirit doesn't do anything; it reflects. Then all the waves spread. Like in Sahasrara Day [referring to Alpe Molta, 1986]. Sahasrara Day you celebrated and in that the whole Europe reflects. Gregoire: Shri Mataji when you came with a charter plane with all the English Sahaja Yogis [to celebrate Diwali Puja 1985) we all felt something great was going on. Shri Mataji: Yes, the whole charter plane came. ..You see, the Spirit is the one where the heart is, which makes the whole thing circulate. The circulation starts with that, but the one who ...The elements are the ones really who are the carriers of that communication. They are the ones. But the ones, we can say, the speakers are the one who originates or who throws that light. It is in England we can start it. But now, as I am in England, that's the light, that's the Spirit. And that's reflected in you. Gregoire: what will happen when you leave England, Shri Mataji? Shri Mataji: Then the soul will be formed; before I go. Atma is eternal; It doesn't die. But what is happening is, by that time, the work will be complete; a sort or realization will take place. Only thing is to raise the Kundalini and that is in India. So I'll have to go to India. Warren: To go to Sahasrara? Shri Mataji: To raise the Kundalini first. Then go to Sahasrara. So that work I'll have to do the stage work there, in India. But the awakening will start when this will be completely reflected here, properly, by the Spirit. That's why I'm coming from England. I always come to Italy from England. Not from India. I could come. I represent England now, in this case. Gregoire: (having added his own interpretation to a translation he had made, he now addresses Shri Mataji] I was saying that you come here as the spirit so that your manifestation, through that acceptance here, gets reflected through vibrations in the whole place. Shri Mataji: I mean, it helps even the heart. Heart will not reflect so much. But your reflection will be received by the heart. The communication from the heart. I am establishing the communication. And a sort of message has been sent from the heart. We get all our information from the heart. We get all the programmes, this, that, from the heart; which is not so efficient but it comes from there. The heart is not very efficient but it is done. All that is like that. It's systematic. And symbolic. Guido: Also you say we have to achieve the deep quality of the Spirit? Shri Mataji: Yes! You should be able to reflect your spirit. Unless and until you are clean you cannot reflect. So still there are many Sahaja Yogis, still are very caught up in Italy. They must correct themselves. Now, you see those people who are negative will always sit next to each other; always make friends with negative; will be more friendly with a negative. And that's how, even if they are improving, they go down. They are improving a little bit, then they go down. Negativity will always join negative; have accidents; have problems; have this, have that; children will be sick. [Referring to the meal) How many courses are there? Gregoire: So, Shri Mataji, this is also why there was this wonderful Ganesha Puja here one year ago: because for the causal elements to reflect the spirit they need to gain the essence of the 6.

 elements which is Shri Ganesha ...or I mean the essence of matter. Shri Mataji: It's very important. Because Italy is a very rich place also. It has everything in it. Such a rich place. And other countries who are not rich: take Switzerland, England; all these places are not rich. So like all the people who are poor they always make fun of the rich, call them "bourgeoise" ...in the same way, they always make fun of the Italians. But really they are stupid people. It's like that. So they make fun of the Italians. Whatever they will do, they'll make fun. They think Italians are something rustic or something. It's typical! In life also you will find; anyone who has money, everybody will make fun of them. It [Italy] has marble, it has so many hand-made things. And always the poor countries which are not ...by poor I mean natural poverty, where they are extremely meticulous. Because you see, they have very little. Like miserly, meticulous you see; clean because there is so little they have. For a rich man doesn't matter a little money gone and very this side, a little that side. Doesn't matter. But this is what they make fun of. Because the stupid people haven't got much from nature because ..they don't deserve it also. No they don't. I mean, imagine, the way they have helped for the wars [Mother is here referring specifically to Switzerland). Arneau: Yes, terrible! Shri Mataji: What do they deserve? Imagine, helping Hitler, and still on top of the world! Jeremy: May Ijust say that I am Italy's number one fan, Mother! Shri Mataji: (laughing) That's becoming evident that your spirit is coming down here When they come and see...you see, after Sahaja Yoga they will start seeing the beauty of this place. Gregoire: Jeremy, you are the number two fan! Shri Mataji: See, they (the Italians) are a very rich-hearted people. But everywhere you find this kind of an attitude towards them; in the art, in anything. They don't like anything ...you see in England I would say they don't like anything that is good-looking. We went to see a house, imagine. It's a crooked house absolutely. Absolutely crooked house and I don't know what sort of thing it was. And they all liked it. So I said, "What's this nonsense? How do you like this kind of a house, when the beams are falling down, that's all crooked, this, that? " Jeremy: Character, Mother.. Shri Mataji: “Character!" That means, supposing your nose is like this, you have 'character'. I mean, it's so absurd! You've got to live there. You've got to live in that house. You'll become a 'character' yourself! Gregoire: Shri Mataji; when they don't have natural riches, they create riches artificially. Like the banking system. Out of paper they make money. Shri Mataji: I'll tell you. You see now the experience of America. The affluence of America is nothing but plastic and rubber. What do they have? Canada has! But they always look down on Canada. Plastic, nothing but plastic. They eat plastic, they live in plastic, sleep in plastic, eat plastic. I mean, the kind of alabaster we saw today. Well, you cannot see anything like this but plastic; at the most glass. At the most glass. In India we have silk, we have everything. But everybody looks down upon us. [Mother briefly asks about the food then picks up the thread) In Switzerland if you buy one cotton shirt, it's so expensive. Even rice, this, that. This banking business. No art, no art.

 Talk to Doctors - Hormones Derby, England, 10th July 1982 Sahaja Yogi: Mullerian duct is something new about these two main lines that are in the [embryo]. Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it is the, reproducts it and the... Sahaja Yogi: They reproduct in the kidney, they reproduct and [unclear] I would [unclear]. I have no idea. You see [unclear] in the embryo Shri Mataji, the first thing they develop, it's very interesting, is the, the brain. Not the brain but the neuron placement. [Alternative] separates to form the spinal chord. Kundalini in other words does [create] that. Not in the spinal chord. What is it ? the neuron, Christy? Another Sahaja Yogi: Is the neuron tube. Sahaja Yogi: It's the, it's the basis of that, of the spine itself. Another Sahaja Yogi: The neuron tube. Shri Mataji: The medullar chord itself. Sahaja Yogi: Ha, and the segments. And then the rest developments around it, half. But all that endocrine glands come from this reed, this pattern it's the very interesting. Shri Mataji: That means that they are from the Ida and Pingala. Sahaja Yogi: Hmm. Shri Mataji: They are the stored energy of Ida and Pingala. Sahaja Yogi: Because it emits two side things afterwards, [none] of them, Mullerian ducts or something like that. Shri Mataji: Actually, first they are formed, then maintain them. Sahaja Yogi: That's right. First that is right, first to do like that, these Mullerian ducts, you know. Shri Mataji: Why are they [doctors]? Because they are aiders. Energies don't require [practice]. They emit energy. You see, anything [that is put low as the floor] require the... Actually [doctors] [Hindi] They are energy pockets. And they emit energy, [emit energy]. Sahaja Yogi: The whole thing, yes, but. Shri Mataji: So these are actually the energies. These are formed by the left and right and central, all of them. And these energy pockets are placed there, close of that. If we go right side, right- sided. If there's a left side [needed], left side. [I mean if there's a dirt/dint of right side] they start flowing. Dirt/dint of left side they start flowing. So to have a coil in respect the difference comes. These are energy pockets. Sahaja Yogi: And another thing, Ma. Another Sahaja Yogi: In the embryonic stage, Ma? 8

 Shri Mataji: No, no, more they are [beyond this]. Sahaja Yogi: In the other. Even beyond, even beyond. Shri Mataji: In the embryonic stage these are energies. Sahaja Yogi: As, as, as pockets of it. Shri Mataji: In the embryonic stage actually the energies flow in a channel but they do not have that state. Sahaja Yogi: Right. Shri Mataji: Now, is the, that... Like a dynamo. They create dynamo, we call them, left and right side can create a [dynamo]. And you can have a battery or something like that it's reproduced. That's what they have a battery produced [to send a signal]. Now they become batteries or not that, that's a dynamo, or something that emits, manifests, like a light. Sahaja Yogi: Another thing it's in. Shri Mataji: Stored up in it. Left and right sided stored up in it. Sahaja Yogi: You see, and that's a significant act in the beginning to say also you [pop] the five elements in the neuron tube, three constituting the left side, right side and center and two the Atma and Kundalini. Shri Mataji: Yeah. Sahaja Yogi: Which open out, [does use] these pockets and the other opening out is the, is the Atma here and the [seedling] that becoming the grosser aspect [it's no other than] the heart and the sacrum which is the residence of the Atma and the Kundalini. Sahaja Yogi: You see, Atma is [that thing]. Sahaja Yogi: Atma is that? Shri Mataji: Atma is the reflect, is the object which reflects. This is the reflector. And that reflector is separate from you. And when this reflecting will work out, then the Ida and Pingala Nadi, both of them together, produce these energy pockets. All right? And then keep for the reflector for [its use/its switch]. Then when the reflector is perfect then the reflector is [unclear]. Sahaja Yogi: All right. This is the mechanism. This is the machine of the Kundalini that what you can call a tantra. The whole, I mean, the whole chakric system is the machinery of the Atma. Shri Mataji: Is the machinery of the Atma. Sahaja Yogi: To work out that reflection of the Atma, protect it and to [unclear]. Sahaja Yogi: I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say like this. Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I can see that. Sahaja Yogi: No, to do an analogy, we say that energy that is going to flow in this machinery is the Kundalini which is going to work and this energy gets connected through the All-pervading Power, to Atma. So it's like a plug. All right? Now this All-pervading Power is the power of God Almighty. So we have God Almighty or His All-pervading Power. This All-pervading Power is felt by a plug here which is the Atma, the reflection of God. And this energy, when it gets to the plug it feels this higher energy which is the power ofthe Atma, of the Paramatma. [Can you cover?] Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Yes. 9.

 Shri Mataji: You get something like the Rolls Royce [in you]. Sahaja Yogi: We, just, just, You know, in the simplistic terms, does the Atma actually rise in conjunction with the power that is Kundalini or is it, where is it touched the All-pervading Power this point or obviously this point? Shri Mataji: [Where it's perceived?] Sahaja Yogi: That is [here]. So it rises. Sahaja Yogi: But in the human being it [resides] in the heart, of course. It comes out [of this nature]. Sense of reflection, that moves, reflection that moves. Sahaja Yogi: One thing which is quite interesting, Mataji, that all the hormones that are produced by the Swadhisthana, they are all made out of fat. They are all steroids. Shri Mataji: Now does that explain such a use of the body? This is called as so be in the [Vishnu]. Devi is called as made in the [Vishnu]. Sahaja Yogi: Hmm. That's right. Shri Mataji: That She stays, the power stays with the [made up] do not [depart ofit]. Now how is fat produced according to the medical science? Let's see? Sahaja Yogi: Nicely in the liver. Shri Mataji: Perfect. Sahaja Yogi: Formed in the liver and transported out and laid down. Shri Mataji: But how? How does liver produce fat? Sahaja Yogi: Of lipids. Sahaja Yogi: Direct digestion. Whatever fat it digests... Shri Mataji: Digested by? Sahaja Yogi: By liver. Shri Mataji: By? Sahaja Yogi: Intestines. Shri Mataji: Intestines. Then? Sahaja Yogi: Then from sugar also creates fat, can. Shri Mataji: Hmm? Sahaja Yogi: Can create sugar from fat. Shri Mataji: From sugar? Reaction is what? Sahaja Yogi: Not sure actually. Sugar, which. I'm not sure, Mataji, which is the [unclear]. How does the liver produce fat out of sugar? Another Sahaja Yogi: By glycemia genesis. It's a... Sahaja Yogi: No, that's the opposite. That's producing the sugar. Another Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear] Sahaja Yogi: [That's getting an invert] 10

 Sahaja Yogini: Why? Sahaja Yogi: That's coming back into sugar. I do not know what to. I thought that You know Mother it does it automatically, use the sugar with sugar and does it. Another Sahaja Yogi: So we're missing something very subtle. Sahaja Yogi: Yes, is something more subtle. Sahaja Yogi: Nothing, it's very simple, very gross. Sahaja Yogi: [Try Mother.] Shri Mataji: Sugar never gets into fat [unclear]. Actually, this is [autonomous] system. Sugar digests all the fat. Sahaja Yogi: That is true. When it goes in the worse [cause] the death, sudden death. Shri Mataji: It just takes sugar into fat. It will never produce fat. Sahaja Yogi: Never produce fat. Shri Mataji: It cannot do that so. Sahaja Yogi: That is true also. Shri Mataji: Because no carbohydrates. It just have gluten and fats. Is never [carbohydrate]. There's no carbohydrate. Carbohydrates actually dissolve fats. I will not [percolate]. Creates called diabetes. Is this fact? Have you? Have you ever saw? [Hindi] Just carbohydrates. Achcha, there are those kinds of carbohydrates. Yes? So now, is all right? Carbohydrates? Sugar never gets converted into fat. So [unclear], outside is prepared. So means question [remains Or limit]. Sahaja Yogi: That's a big one thrown in the [unclear] in the webs and medical science, isn't it? Another Sahaja Yogi: No, but the [that's medical science]. They have to change all the text books now. Shri Mataji: From where that fat is, that fat is produced in the human beings or in the [animals Or cells?], how? Sahaja Yogi: By digestion, using sugar as a catalyst [it does absorb]. Shri Mataji: With. But that is [what] source of fat comes from where? For us, and for any digestion [group], so we go into the basic? Sahaja Yogi: I don't know, Mataji. Shri Mataji: There is something converting into fat. Another Sahaja Yogi: The string of the fatty acids together... Shri Mataji: Hmmm? Another Sahaja Yogi: String of fatty acids together with glycerols. Sahaja Yogi: No, but Mataji is [unclear]. Another Sahaja Yogi: Oh, is it? Shri Mataji: So what did he say? Another Sahaja Yogi: Said, polymerized fatty acids with glycerol. Sahaja Yogi: He's giving the chemical reaction that produces fat which is fatty acids plus 11

 glycerol. Shri Mataji: No, no, but these people [used it]. What is the reaction you say? Just tell that. Sahaja Yogi: Just polymerizing the fatty acids with glycerol to get fat. Shri Mataji: Glycerin. From glycerol? Sahaja Yogi: Glycerol plus fatty acids. Shri Mataji: But fatty acids from where do they come? Sahaja Yogi: Yeah. Shri Mataji: [If you are getting.] What is the source of fatty acids? Sahaja Yogi: From the food. Another Sahaja Yogi: But where do they? Somewhere must have [unclear]? Shri Mataji: [Some and what then?] Sahaja Yogi: I don't know. Shri Mataji: [So you are going to the] oxygen, everything. Sahaja Yogi: Fatty acids are produced, you see, if you go back to plant [lesson], Mataji, fatty acids are produced basically by things that eat, vegetables. Shri Mataji: Ah, vegetables? Supposing we eat them but where does it come from? Sahaja Yogi: Cellulose. Shri Mataji: Ah? Sahaja Yogi: You mean it's ... It's [private]. It's primordial. Shri Mataji: Ah? Sahaja Yogi: From the earth. Shri Mataji: Simple. Sahaja Yogi: From the earth element. Shri Mataji: No. In the earth element we have got oils, already. With the earth element oils [even] which are produced carbohydrates. Sahaja Yogi: No, it cannot be. Shri Mataji: All right? So the petrol you can't eat, can you? Sahaja Yogi: No, I cannot adjust it. Shri Mataji: None of the oils that are produced by Mother Earth we have it. So which is the fat that we get? What is the source of that fat? Sahaja Yogi: Don't know, Mother. Another Sahaja Yogi: Well, vegetation. Shri Mataji: What are you so [unclear] carries the Mother Earth. Sahaja Yogi: Plants and plants and animals. Shri Mataji: [unclear]. Same oils are converted by the plants and by the sun into subtler fats. 12

 Sahaja Yogi: Achcha, so the subtles and the fats are. Shri Mataji: What we use is nothing but petrol. Sahaja Yogi: Then we shouldn't burn it, Mother. Another day they used to say that petrol was originally plants. Another Sahaja Yogi: Hmm, that's right. Shri Mataji: You see, this petrol is made subtler for the use of man by the action of the sun. Who watches the sun away is prana. So gana acts on the Mother Earth, the petrol and creates the fat which is available. Sahaja Yogi: For us. Shri Mataji: Means for this motorcar a new petrol is made that way. All right? Sahaja Yogi: So that is why. Shri Mataji: But within it is the hydrogen. Sahaja Yogi: So fat is very unusual, Mother. And that is only carbon and hydrogen and oxygen and contains no nitrogen. Shri Mataji: Mmm? Sahaja Yogi: Fat is a very high per cent hydro or what's it hydrogen in relation with oxygen, isn't it? Much higher than. Shri Mataji: Only hydrogen they just [cut it]. Sahaja Yogi: Hydrogen in relation with oxygen. Shri Mataji: So it is the moon. This is the action of moon, sun and the Mother Earth, inside to support it. But in human beings it is formed as flabbiness. As fat is produced and the moon [created] this fat. Flabbiness. Sahaja Yogi: That is why until the Mooladhara chakra opens, the Swadhisthana cannot open fully. The Mooladhara chakra, I think you were telling in [Jamail], Mataji, that in Puja, when we do Puja, Mooladhara chakra opens and then Swadhisthana opens. Shri Mataji: If your Mooladhara is closed up I think I'm [stopped/stucked]. But it's slightly opened in somebody. What I try to say that when the left side hydrogen within us, that's mixed with [water, water], that means more hydrogen is added, through the water some [unclear] is formed and that is the one which forms fat. So most of the people are fat are left-sided. up Sahaja Yogi: That I admit. My patients when they come in [there] they get fat. Shri Mataji: Aaa? Sahaja Yogi: I, I noticed something very interesting, Mother. When I was a [registry] I joined the psychiatric also there. All third year was joined together. And I noticed within six months they all put on weight, specially here the young. All the young doctors. Shri Mataji: In the psychiatric hospitals whatever they have. Too much of hydrogen. Sahaja Yogi: Too much left. But I noticed since coming to work here I put on a lot of weight as if like a reaction. Shri Mataji: So like this you do that hydrogen comes from moon and that the hydrogen then 13

 it reacts on water and gives more hydrogen. Then fats are formed as flab to begin with. And then you get fatty acids. Ifit doesn't go in the chest it goes in the blood. Sahaja Yogi: What diseases are caused by too much flab/flam Mother? Shri Mataji: Too much fat? Sahaja Yogi: Too much flab/flam. Or too much fat even. Shri Mataji: So, [jada]. Hydrogen. It makes you [jada]. Sahaja Yogi: So arthritis. Shri Mataji: Mmm? Sahaja Yogi: Arthritis is caused by. Shri Mataji: All kinds of arthritis in circulation. Sahaja Yogi: Could they also be responsible for breathing troubles and bronchitis and [unclear]? t goes into the lungs. Shri Mataji: Ifit Sahaja Yogi: Achcha, achcha. Shri Mataji: Flab, if it goes into the lungs. Sahaja Yogi: So the whole thing revolves around the relative amount of the moon. Shri Mataji: Moon is the first. Sahaja Yogi: In the first. Shri Mataji: But it is always at a contrast with the sun. Sahaja Yogi: Do You have anything, Mother, to do with the moon in Your Kundalini? Shri Mataji: Moon in your? Sahaja Yogi: Kundalini. [Jag Ma]Kundalini. Shri Mataji: Ofcourse. Of course, must be. Sahaja Yogi: Where is that? Another Sahaja Yogi: That [is] Your horoscope. Shri Mataji: Moon is very important. As [Hindi] this moon is important. Sahaja Yogi: So what is the significance, Mother, as if we take it sign by sign? Like my moon is in [Hindi] so what defects? Shri Mataji: Oh, that I don't know. Sahaja Yogi: You don't know about that. It's OK. Shri Mataji: But that [Hindi] is Sagittarius. That means as far as Atma is concerned, you are straightforward. That's why in India we use the, not signs, but another thing. Sahaja Yogi: The [Rakshi]. Shri Mataji: The lunar. Sahaja Yogi: Aaa, [Rakshi] that is lunar. 14

 Shri Mataji: Because for us the left side, the moon is important. Sahaja Yogi: And [Lakhna] is in the middle. Shri Mataji: Aaa? Sahaja Yogi: Three things we use: [lakhna], surya or [rashi]. So [lakhna] is what, Mother? That is, must be the Mooladhara. Shri Mataji: [Lakhna]is... Sahaja Yogi: Or for horoscope. Shri Mataji: I mean, in private you have this as nitrogen. This is nitrogen, actually. The [centre] comes through nitrogen. Sahaja Yogi: So [lakhna] is the centre of one's existence. So when someone's [lakhna] what your [lakhna] is, will describe your... Shri Mataji: It's a combination, everything [reverbs/reverts] on the [chakras]. Sahaja Yogi: So we have chandran and the lakhna or [Hindi] in lakhna. We're thinking that they are prop for your ascent. Shri Mataji: I don't know all that. Sahaja Yogi: But this is also part of vidya, Mataji. Shri Mataji: Just now we are dealing with [chandra]. Sahaja Yogi: You can also think about and at a very large scale that at the same degree of subtlety, countries which are producing, areas which are producing oily plants, oily plants, are opened that sided. That's, that's, if you think geographically... Another Sahaja Yogi: Mustard for example. They are very full of mustard. Shri Mataji: Yeah? Sahaja Yogi: Yeah. This area it grows a lot of mustard. Another Sahaja Yogi: And just so just thinking about areas around the world and the... Shri Mataji: One can work it out. Means you have got the principle and then use it. Sahaja Yogi: What about these countries which are extracting oil from the earth? They must be having a very harmful effect on the... Shri Mataji: Who? Those who are extracting? Sahaja Yogi: It's going the other way. Shri Mataji: But you see the thing is, they extract oil... Sahaja Yogi: They don't have to face... Shri Mataji: They have no subtler ways. Otherwise are very thin people, extremely thin. Sahaja Yogi: They are going against... Shri Mataji: Mmmm? Sahaja Yogi: They are going against this principle, aren't they? Shri Mataji: Yes, that is full of [subtlety] in extraction of these oils. But they are very thin. 15

 Sahaja Yogi: That is why their point and one thing that is obvious is that any country that produces oil has some battle or fight is going on there. Iraq, most of these countries that produce oil, they are having some problem or other. Shri Mataji: Sun is, no? The sun makes this. It's a scorching hot place. And the sun has created all of that. In that sun you find this. Because there's no moon in, no moon at all. That's why Mohammed Sahab wanted them to worship the moon. Sahaja Yogi: To get the balance. Shri Mataji: Right. Another Sahaja Yogi: And also previously the Semitic people of this area were much heavier, much chantier than they are today. Shri Mataji: Which place is that? Sahaja Yogi: The Middle East generally. The Semitic people in, in early time, in really early time. Much before. Shri Mataji: Yeah. Youth, youth were never been taught normally. They have to be seen, aren't they? Sahaja Yogi: Generally, yeah. Shri Mataji: [The central to be seen]. Sahaja Yogi: But that's nowadays. Shri Mataji: Ha. Nowadays. And that's they've got, I mean, they are going very right side. Sahaja Yogi: Jewish men especially are very thin. Shri Mataji: Can be. [Yes]. I can say there are very few fat. It is true. Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji: Hmm? Sahaja Yogi: Very, very few of them are fat. Shri Mataji: Mmm. Same with Arabs. If you see Arabs. Sahaja Yogi: But that's misuse of the energy, isn't it Mother? Shri Mataji: Yes, misuse or overuse. Sahaja Yogi: More overuse, yeah. Shri Mataji: Overuse. In fact, whatever reactions are nonsense because the sun is there scorchingly [hot/hard]. The, they take out the... The oil.... Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Shri Mataji: Is formed there. They take out the oil. It's such a [temperature or formed there?]. You can't blame them. You can't blame the nature. Because of their temperament. Forget it. Sahaja Yogi: But I remember descriptions in the Old Testament that they are waiting people. Shri Mataji: They are all [unclear] one. That was in Iran or in Egypt there they are. See, they never got it. Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I'll think about it. 16

 Shri Mataji: That's why in Iran they worshipped the sun. In Egypt they worshipped the sun. Sahaja Yogi: No balance at all. You have seen, Mother, that Indra's capital was in Iran, some [quite near]. That's a very right-sided. Shri Mataji: Ofcourse, of course. Very right-sided. Sahaja Yogi: As well as [bond]to strive on. Shri Mataji: [unclear] the memory. Sahaja Yogi: Even to this day the Parsees is all on the right, absolutely on the right. They have no [left side]. Shri Mataji: Very [unclear]. Parsees are very selfish, very right-sided. All right. So that. Where are we? Sahaja Yogi: Well, maybe You showed this source of fats. Then we were back to the point of the Tao. Shri Mataji: But what neutralizes fat now? Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] one. Shri Mataji: Prana comes from proteins, you see. Chana is [udandaya] Sahaja Yogi. Gives you the Udan, Udan with the Sahaja Yogis. But with others it can give them belching or can give them gases. It can be both ways. Sahaja Yogi: What happens to, where do we use, Mother? Gives you what? Shri Mataji: Udan, udan. Sahaja Yogi: It's one of the five Pranas. Shri Mataji: Prana that goes upwards. Sahaja Yogi: Ha Tha. [Udana] the first. Shri Mataji: But the Udana Prana can give belching to people who do not have their chakras opened. [Nabhi comes]. Sahaja Yogi: So the five Pranas must be... What are their various functions of these udaan, vyana... Shri Mataji: Vyana. Sahaja Yogi: Apana. Apana. Vyana. Shri Mataji: Vyana is the one that [distributes] coming. [Hindi] Rhythm. Rhythm. All right, who will take them out? She, she wants to. Can you? Go. Sahaja Yogi: Such a ... But it's not only the protein part of the chana. It's the carbohydrate part as well. Shri Mataji: Hmmm? Sahaja Yogi: The carbohydrate part of the chana as well will help, won't it? Shri Mataji: Carbohydrate? Sahaja Yogi: That, that part as well as protein part will assist in this... Shri Mataji: Chana has very little carbohydrate. 17

 श्री ईसा हा विश्व के आधार 18

 भगवान ईसा मसीह श्री ईसा विश्व के आधार है। इस पवित्रता, इस मंगलमयता का सृजन एक अण्डे के रूप में किया गया और फिर इसे दो भागों में तोड़ा गया। पहला भाग श्री गणेश हैं और दूसरा आधा विकसित होकर परिपक्व अवस्था में ईसामसीह बना। ईसा स्वयं ओंकार हैं तथा चैतन्य लहरियाँ भी स्वयं ही हैं। शेष सभी अवतरणों को शरीर धारण करने के लिये पृथ्वीतत्व लेना पड़ा। ईसा का शरीर पूर्णत: ओंकार है तथा श्री गणेश उनका पृथ्वीतत्व हैं। अत: हम कह सकते है कि ईसा श्री गणेश की अवतरित शक्ति हैं। यही कारण है कि वे जल पर चल सकते हैं। वे देवत्व का निर्मलतम रूप हैं। प.पू.श्री माताजी, ३.४.१९९४ किया गया......इस शिशु में केवल पृथ्वीतत्व का अंश विद्यमान था.....आज्ञा चक्र पर जिस अन्तिम तत्व में से गुज़रना पड़ा वह आरम्भ में जब श्री गणेश के रूप में उनका ( श्री ईसामसीह) का सृजन था प्रकाशतत्व अर्थात उन्हें दिव्य शक्ति के सच्चे रूप में आना पड़ा-ओंकार रूप में। आप यह भी कह सकते हैं कि चैतन्य लहरियों के रूप में जिसे आप नाद या शब्द ब्रह्म आदि कुछ कहते है। अत: उन्हें ब्रह्मतत्व बनना पड़ा और ब्रह्मतत्व बनने के लिए उन्हें अन्य सभी महातत्वों से अलग होना पड़ा। अंतिम तत्व प्रकाशतत्व था, इन्हें (श्री ईसामसीह) इसको पार करना पड़ा। तो उनके अन्दर पृथ्वीतत्व था क्योंकि उबटन के मल से उनका सृजन हुआ तथा और भी तत्व उनमें थे, परन्तु जब वे आज्ञा चक्र पर आते हैं तो बाकी सभी तत्व उन्हें छोड़ने पड़ते हैं और अपने अन्दर मौजूद इन सभी तत्वों को निकालने के लिए उन्हें (श्री ईसामसीह) मरना पड़ता है-पूर्ण, संपूर्ण पावन आत्मा बनने के लिए जो कार्य उन्होंने सूक्ष्म रूप में किया वह स्थूल रूप में कार्यान्वित होता है, इसी कार्य को करने के लिए उन्हें मरना पड़ा। उनके अन्दर जिस चीज़ की मृत्यु हुई थी वह थी उनके अन्दर का पृथ्वीतत्व तथा अन्य तत्व और उनसे 'पावन आत्मा' का उद्भव हुआ। उनका पुनर्जन्म हुआ, पावन आत्मा का, शुद्ध ब्रह्मतत्व का, जिसने ईसामसीह के शरीर की रचना की....उन्हें रक्षक इसलिए कहा जाता है क्योंकि मानव को शारीरिक संवेदना से ऊपर उठाने के लिए उन्होंने यह द्वार पार किया अर्थात् उन लोगों को जो पंचमहाभूतों पर निर्भर करते हैं उन्हें आत्मा के स्तर पर लाने के लिए। के चित्त पर छलाँग लगा लेते हैं, जहाँ आप अपने अत: पुनर्जन्म वह है जहाँ आप....अपने चित्त से आत्मा चित्त को महसूस कर पाते हैं। यही घटना आपके साथ घटित हुई है, परन्तु जब उनका पुनर्जन्म हुआ तो वे शुद्ध आत्मा, शुद्ध ब्रह्मतत्व बन गए। पुनर्जन्म, मूलाधार चक्र से पृथ्वी तत्व के रूप में आरम्भ हुई, उस दिव्य शक्ति की उत्क्रान्ति की घटना है जिसने वहाँ (मूलाधार चक्र) जन्म लिया और आज्ञा चक्र पर आई। वहाँ पर सभी तत्वों को पार करके अन्तत: सहस्रार में प्रवेश करके पूर्ण ब्रह्मतत्व बनने के लिए ईसामसीह का सृजन किया गया। प.पू.श्री माताजी, ११.४.१९८२ ईसामसीह श्रीकृष्ण के पुत्र थे। वे मानव के चारित्रिक आधार हैं। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २३.४.२००१ 19

 .वे एक आदर्श थे, एक आदर्श सन्त, आदर्श साक्षात्कारी व्यक्ति, एक ऐसे व्यक्ति की प्रतिमूर्ति जो हमारी रक्षा करने के लिये स्वर्ग से आए। ईसामसीह ने मृत्यु के पश्चात पुनर्जन्म लिया था। सहजयोग में हमने भी मृत्यु के पश्चात जीवन में प्रवेश किया है। यह बात समझ लेनी चाहिए कि पुनर्जन्म हम सबके लिये, पूरे विश्व के लिये, ये सन्देश है कि हमें पुनर्जन्म प्राप्त करना है। ..ईसामसीह उस समय पर अवतरित हुए जब लोगों को आध्यात्मिकता का बिल्कुल भी ज्ञान न था परन्तु जैसे तैसे सभी कुछ इतनी सुन्दरतापूर्वक कार्यान्वित हुआ कि लोग समझने लगे कि पुनरुत्थान महत्वपूर्ण है। आपका भी जब पुनर्जन्म होता है तो कुण्डलिनी उठती है और आपका सम्बन्ध दिव्य शक्ति से जोड़ती है । ..ईसामसीह एक अत्यन्त साधारण एवं गरीब व्यक्ति थे, एक बढ़ई के पुत्र। उनके लिये पैसा अधिक महत्वपूर्ण न था। बेकार था। उनके लिये आत्मा सभी कुछ था। वे अत्यन्त ही विवेकशील थे और जिस प्रकार उन्होंने गिरजाघरों में बड़े-बड़े पादरियों से धर्म की बातचीत की, वह अत्यन्त आश्चर्यजनक है कि किस प्रकार एक नन्हा बालक धर्म को इतनी गहनतापूर्वक समझता है। नि:सन्देह उस समय वे छोटे से बालक थे परन्तु वे परमात्मा के बन्दे थे, परमात्मा द्वारा सृजित। वे श्री गणेश थे, वे ॐ हैं, वे ज्ञान हैं, सभी कुछ हैं। इसके बावजूद भी उन्हें कोई पहचान नहीं सका क्योंकि लोग सत्य को नहीं पहचान सकते। प.पू.श्री माताजी, टर्की, २२.४.२००१ ईसामसीह के जीवन का सबसे बड़ा उद्देश्य ये था कि आपके अन्दर जो आज्ञाचक्र है उसका भेदन करें और इसलिए उन्होंने अपने को क्रॉस पर टंगवा लिया और उसके बाद फिर से जीवित हो गए। यह चमत्कार लगता है, पर परमेश्वरी कार्य कोई चमत्कार नहीं। इस प्रकार उन्होंने दिखाया कि मनुष्य इस आज्ञाचक्र से बाहर जा सकता है। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २५.१२.२००० आज्ञाचक्र को खोलने के लिये फाँसी चढ़ने की आवश्यकता नहीं है और न ही क्रूसारोपित होने की आवश्यकता है। आवश्यकता है अहम् को क्रूसारोपित करने की। अहं ऐसी चीज़ है जिससे जल्दी से मुक्ति नहीं प्राप्त की जा सकती। ..ईसामसीह को अत्यन्त युवावस्था में ही क्रूसारोपित कर दिया गया। उनका क्रूसारोपित होना बताता है कि वे मृत्यु से नहीं डरते थे और जानते थे कि वे पुनर्जन्म पा लेंगे। ये कार्य उन्हें आज्ञाचक्र के माध्यम से करना पड़ा । आज्ञाचक्र बहुत ही तंग है और उन्हें इस मार्ग में से गुज़रना था और इस पर स्थापित होना था। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २२.४.२००१ आज्ञाचक्र पर उन्होंने दो मन्त्र बताये, इन्हें हम बीजमन्त्र कहते हैं - हूँ और क्षम्। क्षमा का मतलब क्षमा करो। क्षमा करना, यह सबसे बड़ा मन्त्र है, जो आदमी क्षमा करना जानता है उसका ईगो (अहं) जो है वो नष्ट हो जाता है।.....सो दो चीजें ईसामसीह ने बतायीं, एक तो यह कि आप सबको क्षमा कर दो, दूसरी बात जो कही उन्होंने 20

 कि तुम आत्मा हो, इस आत्मा को जानो। आत्मा को तो कोई छू भी नही सकता। उसको सता नहीं सकता। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २५.१२.२००० ईसामसीह ने आत्मबलिदान किया। अपने जीवन को बलिदान करने का कार्य स्वीकार करके और फिर स्वयं को पुनर्जीवित किया। आज्ञाचक्र के संकुचित मार्ग से वे गुज़रे ताकि आप लोग केवल इतना कहकर ठीक हो सको कि 'मैं सबको क्षमा करता हूँ।' क्षमा का गुण जब इतना शक्तिशाली है कि आप इसके माध्यम से मृत्यु से भी लड़ सकते हैं तो क्यों न क्षमा कर दी जाये? हमारे आज्ञाचक्र को खोलने के लिये ईसा का पुनर्जन्म हुआ। आज्ञाचक्र अति सूक्ष्म केन्द्र है। अपने बन्धनों तथा अहं से प्राप्त विचारों के कारण लोगों की आज्ञा इतनी अवरोधित हो गयी थी कि इसमें से कुण्डलिनी का पार होना असम्भव था। ईसा क्योंकि चैतन्य का ही रूप थे, अत: पुनर्जन्म का खेल रचा गया। हमें समझना चाहिए कि ईसा की मृत्यु द्वारा ही हमें हमारा पुनर्जन्म प्राप्त हुआ है और भूतकाल की मृत्यु हो गयी, हमारे पश्चाताप और बन्धन समाप्त हो गए। प.पू.श्री माताजी, इटली, १४.४.१९९२ ईसामसीह ने हमें यह शिक्षा दी कि उनके हृदय में मानव मात्र के लिये प्रेम था और वे सभी लोगों को पुनरुत्थान के लिये तैयार करना चाहते थे। वे सहजयोग के आने के पूर्व अवतरित हुए। उन्होंने यदि यह कार्य न किया होता तो मेरे लिये यह उपलब्धि प्राप्त करना कठिन होता। इस प्रकार उन्होंने सहजयोग के लिये स्थितियाँ बनायीं जिसके कारण आप लोगों के आज्ञाचक्र खुले और आज्ञाचक्र को पार करके कुण्डलिनी को ऊपर ले जाकर आप अपने सहस्रार को, अपने तालूअस्थि क्षेत्र खोल सकते हैं। उन्होंने सोचा कि लोगों के प्रति प्रेम का यही अंग-प्रत्यंग है, इसलिये ईसा ने यह कार्य किया और बहुत से लोगों का हित किया। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २२.४.२००१ अगर ईसामसीह इस संसार में न आते और अपने को आज्ञा चक्र में बिठाकर तारण का मार्ग, पुनर्जीवन का मार्ग न बताते तो सहजयोग साध्य न हो सकता। उनका आना अति आवश्यक था। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २५.१२.१९९० .... सहजयोग में ईसामसीह हमारे अत्यन्त सहायक हैं। ......ईसामसीह हमें इस बात का ज्ञान करवाते हैं कि हम अपने आज्ञा चक्र खोलें, इससे ऊपर उठें। यहाँ हम इसे तीसरी आँख कहते हैं। तीसरी आँख खुलने का अर्थ यह है कि आपके आज्ञाचक्र पर ईसामसीह जागृत हो गये हैं। यही तीसरी आँख हैं। ईसामसीह आपके अन्दर साक्षी भाव का सृजन करते हैं और आप पूरे नाटक के दृष्टा मात्र बन जाते हैं। पूरे नाटक को आप देखने लगते हैं और आश्चर्यचकित होते हैं कि आप कितने शान्त हैं, किस प्रकार निर्विचार चेतना में हैं और बिना प्रतिक्रिया करे किस प्रकार हर चीज़ को देखते हैं। यह वह स्थान है जहाँ हमें ये बात माननी पड़ती है कि ईसामसीह हमारे आज्ञाचक्र पर प्रकट हुए, वहीं उनका पुनर्जन्म हुआ। ये सब हमारे अन्दर घटित हो चुका है। मशीन के पुजों की तरह से हमारे अन्दर सूक्ष्म तन्त्र को बनाया गया है और हमारे अन्दर भिन्न चक्र 21

 और ऊर्जा केन्द्र हैं। यह अन्तिम चक्र कठिनतम है, उसे वास्तव में ईसामसीह ने खोला। ईसामसीह ने ही ये कार्य करने का साहस किया और इसे इतने सुन्दर ढंग से किया कि अब हमारे अन्दर अहं को देख पाने की योग्यता है। जब आप अपने अहं को देखते हैं तो हैरान होते हैं कि जो भी कार्य आप करते हैं, जितना भी कुछ आप करते रहें, आप थकेंगे नहीं। थकते तो आप इसलिए हैं कि आपका अहं सदैव यही कहता रहता है ओह! आप इतने महान है, अन्य लोगों के लिये आप इतना सारा काम कर रहे हैं, आपने तो इतना कुछ प्राप्त कर लिया है, आदि-आदि। तो इसी प्रकार अहम् हर समय हमारी झूठी महानता के विषय में हमें बढावा देता रहता है और हम स्वयं को महान मान बैठते हैं। इस दुष्ट अहंकार का दूसरा पक्ष बन्धन (Conditioning) है। इसका भी अत्यन्त सूक्ष्म सम्बन्ध है। ईसामसीह के प्रति हमें आभारी होना है कि उन्होंने पुनरुत्थान को कार्यान्वित किया ताकि हर विवेक बुद्धि को प्राप्त कर सकें, परमेश्वरी विवेक को प्राप्त कर सकें। ये ऐसा संघर्ष है, ऐसा मार्ग है, ... .. जिसका सृजन उन्होंने किया ताकि अत्यन्त आसानी से हम कठिनाई को पार कर सकें जिससे हमारे अहं और बन्धनों का अन्त हो जाए। प.पू.श्री माताजी, २२.४.२००१ अहंकार को देखने का प्रयत्न करें और उस समय यदि आप ईसामसीह का नाम लेंगे तो अहंकार चला जाएगा। ईसामसीह का नाम लेने मात्र से आपका अहंकार दूर हो जाएगा। हमारे उत्थान के लिये ईसामसीह अत्यन्त महत्वपूर्ण अवतरण थे। यदि वे स्वयं पुनर्जीवित न हुए होते तो हमें उत्थान प्राप्त न हो पाता। ईसा का पुनर्जीवन आपके जीवन से प्रत्यक्ष है। पहले आप क्या थे और आज क्या हैं, कितना अन्तर है, कितना कायापलट है? उनके बलिदान और पुनर्जीवन ने हम सबके लिये यह परिवर्तित अवस्था प्राप्त करने का मार्ग बनाया है। पर यह अवस्था मानव के लिये भिन्न है तथा ईसा के लिये भिन्न। ईसा स्वयं पवित्रता तथा विशुद्धता थे। उनका पुनर्जीवन मात्र एक शारीरिक घटना थी क्योंकि उन्हें कायापलट की कोई आवश्यकता नहीं थी, उन्हें शुद्धिकरण नहीं करना पड़ा। मृत्यु से उनका पुनर्जीवित होना इस बात का प्रतीक है कि मानव का आध्यात्मविहीन जीवन मृत्युसम है, क्योंकि मानव पूर्णत्व, वास्तविकता तथा पूर्ण सत्य को समझे बिना ही सभी कुछ करता रहता है। उसका हर कर्म अन्ततोगत्वा उसे विनाश की ओर ले जाता है। यहाँ तक कि इन अवतरणों द्वारा चलाये धर्म भी पतनोन्मुख हैं, इन अवतरणों के प्रतिनिधि कहलाने वाले लोगों में भी धार्मिकता का नामोनिशान नहीं मिलता। प.पू.श्री माताजी, इटली, ११.४.१९९३ 22

 Published & Printed by Nirmal Transformation Pvt. Ltd. 10, Bhagyachintamani Co-op. Housing Society, Paud Road, Kothrud, Pune, Maharashtra, India 411 038. Ph.: 020 - 65226031, 65226032, 25286537 email:sale@nitl.oc.in, website:www.nitl.co.in (For queries contact on above address)

 Lamp which is enlightened may be unclean or may not be good to light but once it is lit it can enlighten others. Similarly your Spirit is pure. -H.H.Shri Mataji Nirmaladevi, 24.5.1981, London 000 000



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2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-0.txt 
 YUVA दृष्टि
Oct.-Dec.2014
The Spirit is the one where the heart is, which makes the whole
thing circulate.
(25-07-1986)
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-2.txt 
 Inside
This Issue
Soul & Spirit ...4
Talk to Doctors - Hormones ...8
श्री ईसा विश्व के आधार ...१८
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-3.txt 
 Soul and Spirit
Italy, 25th July1986
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-4.txt 
 Chakras are reflected in Shri Mataji's glass.
Shri Mataji: ...then it [the liqht) comes in there. This [the glass) is the body. All the 5 Koshas,
the 5 auras, Koshas, are there. So these 5 Koshas are managed by the 5 elements, the essence of
which can be called the causal element, the causal of the...
Gregoire: .. the causal of the five elements. What we know as Atma in Sanskrit, is it the Soul
plus the Spirit, or only the Spirit?
Shri Mataji: Jivatma is the soul but Atma is the Spirit.
Gregoire: So Jivatma is the Spirit but individualized;. belonging to one person?
Shri Mataji: No, no! Jivatma is the soul. Means with these five elements. And these five
elements give you your own identity, your own character, your own particularities etc. These five
elements; the way they are placed in you. That's the causal element, the causal of the elements that
are within you. Then these causals act on the chakras and through the chakras these causals act on
the other ...on the grosser side. So from the subtle to the subtler to the...you can say the subtlest. The
subtlest we can say is the Spirit, supposing. Then the subtler is the soul. And the subtle you have the
chakras. And the gross is the body.
Gregoire: So England should reflect on Italy then? [Mother, on a previous occasion, had told
us that while England is the spirit, Italy is the soul of the Universe)
Shri Mataji: The soul is ...That's why all the art grew from here [Italy]. Now soul is the essence
of all the elements of this Europe, which is here. And England is the reflection. So England has to
reflect on Italy.
Warren: See, the water in the glass is reflecting the light. England is the light and the light has
to shine out of Italy which is the water. Imean the rive elements in a way.
Shri Mataji: And Spirit can move out of soul. That's why the Romans went all the way to
England. This is the reason, in that seeking. [Referring to the food being served] What is this
supposed to be?
Gregoire: So in a certain sense the soul is the support of the Spirit?
Shri Mataji: No, no! Soul ...Yes, of course. And both put together is the Soul actually. The
Spirit and the causal put together is the Soul. You see, like a mirror and its reflection on it. Both put
together is the soul. The causal of the five elements and the Spirit put together make the soul. Now
the vibrations that we feel are the reflection of the light of the Spirit. The Spirit does not vibrate. It
does not vibrate. It is those elements, they vibrate. Like you can say that if you put a sound on top of
this (a glass of water) it will vibrate. You can put a stone in it, the stone won't vibrate. But this will
vibrate. The Spirit when it shines over it...(to Gregoire who translates) You have your food. From
soul to food, from food to soul.
Guido: So in that sense, by soul you mean the Jivatma? The Jivatma of Europe.
Shri Mataji: But the Atma besides can move out. So the Atma has gone out of it which is a
mistake. Now they have to recognize Italy. Then the Atma will be reflected. Because Atma can leave
the soul. So the Atma has left the soul. There's no Atma here. The Atma has to be brought here.
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-5.txt 
 The English have to come .....I mean the England has to come here, in the sense that they have to
appreciate the greatness of this country. Then it will spread. You are the ones who can reflect the
Spirit. You can reflect the Spirit. The spirit doesn't do anything. The Spirit doesn't do anything; it
reflects. Then all the waves spread. Like in Sahasrara Day [referring to Alpe Molta, 1986]. Sahasrara
Day you celebrated and in that the whole Europe reflects.
Gregoire: Shri Mataji when you came with a charter plane with all the English Sahaja Yogis [to
celebrate Diwali Puja 1985) we all felt something great was going on.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the whole charter plane came. ..You see, the Spirit is the one where the heart
is, which makes the whole thing circulate. The circulation starts with that, but the one who ...The
elements are the ones really who are the carriers of that communication. They are the ones. But the
ones, we can say, the speakers are the one who originates or who throws that light. It is in England we
can start it. But now, as I am in England, that's the light, that's the Spirit. And that's reflected in you.
Gregoire: what will happen when you leave England, Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Then the soul will be formed; before I go. Atma is eternal; It doesn't die. But what
is happening is, by that time, the work will be complete; a sort or realization will take place. Only
thing is to raise the Kundalini and that is in India. So I'll have to go to India.
Warren: To go to Sahasrara?
Shri Mataji: To raise the Kundalini first. Then go to Sahasrara. So that work I'll have to do the
stage work there, in India. But the awakening will start when this will be completely reflected here,
properly, by the Spirit. That's why I'm coming from England. I always come to Italy from England.
Not from India. I could come. I represent England now, in this case.
Gregoire: (having added his own interpretation to a translation he had made, he now addresses
Shri Mataji] I was saying that you come here as the spirit so that your manifestation, through that
acceptance here, gets reflected through vibrations in the whole place.
Shri Mataji: I mean, it helps even the heart. Heart will not reflect so much. But your reflection
will be received by the heart. The communication from the heart. I am establishing the
communication. And a sort of message has been sent from the heart. We get all our information from
the heart. We get all the programmes, this, that, from the heart; which is not so efficient but it comes from
there. The heart is not very efficient but it is done. All that is like that. It's systematic. And symbolic.
Guido: Also you say we have to achieve the deep quality of the Spirit?
Shri Mataji: Yes! You should be able to reflect your spirit. Unless and until you are clean you
cannot reflect. So still there are many Sahaja Yogis, still are very caught up in Italy. They must correct
themselves. Now, you see those people who are negative will always sit next to each other; always
make friends with negative; will be more friendly with a negative. And that's how, even if they are
improving, they go down. They are improving a little bit, then they go down. Negativity will always
join negative; have accidents; have problems; have this, have that; children will be sick. [Referring
to the meal) How many courses are there?
Gregoire: So, Shri Mataji, this is also why there was this wonderful Ganesha Puja here one
year ago: because for the causal elements to reflect the spirit they need to gain the essence of the
6.
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-6.txt 
 elements which is Shri Ganesha ...or I mean the essence of matter.
Shri Mataji: It's very important. Because Italy is a very rich place also. It has everything in it.
Such a rich place. And other countries who are not rich: take Switzerland, England; all these places
are not rich. So like all the people who are poor they always make fun of the rich, call them
"bourgeoise" ...in the same way, they always make fun of the Italians. But really they are stupid
people. It's like that. So they make fun of the Italians. Whatever they will do, they'll make fun. They
think Italians are something rustic or something. It's typical! In life also you will find; anyone who
has money, everybody will make fun of them. It [Italy] has marble, it has so many hand-made
things. And always the poor countries which are not ...by poor I mean natural poverty, where they
are extremely meticulous. Because you see, they have very little. Like miserly, meticulous you see;
clean because there is so little they have. For a rich man doesn't matter a little money gone
and
very
this side, a little that side. Doesn't matter. But this is what they make fun of. Because the stupid
people haven't got much from nature because ..they don't deserve it also. No they don't. I mean,
imagine, the way they have helped for the wars [Mother is here referring specifically to Switzerland).
Arneau: Yes, terrible!
Shri Mataji: What do they deserve? Imagine, helping Hitler, and still on top of the world!
Jeremy: May Ijust say that I am Italy's number one fan, Mother!
Shri Mataji: (laughing) That's becoming evident that your spirit is coming down here When they
come and see...you see, after Sahaja Yoga they will start seeing the beauty of this place.
Gregoire: Jeremy, you are the number two fan!
Shri Mataji: See, they (the Italians) are a very rich-hearted people. But everywhere you find
this kind of an attitude towards them; in the art, in anything. They don't like anything ...you see in
England I would say they don't like anything that is good-looking. We went to see a house, imagine.
It's a crooked house absolutely. Absolutely crooked house and I don't know what sort of thing it was.
And they all liked it. So I said, "What's this nonsense? How do you like this kind of a house, when
the beams are falling down, that's all crooked, this, that? "
Jeremy: Character, Mother..
Shri Mataji: “Character!" That means, supposing your nose is like this, you have 'character'. I
mean, it's so absurd! You've got to live there. You've got to live in that house. You'll become a
'character' yourself!
Gregoire: Shri Mataji; when they don't have natural riches, they create riches artificially. Like
the banking system. Out of paper they make money.
Shri Mataji: I'll tell you. You see now the experience of America. The affluence of America is
nothing but plastic and rubber. What do they have? Canada has! But they always look down on
Canada. Plastic, nothing but plastic. They eat plastic, they live in plastic, sleep in plastic, eat plastic.
I mean, the kind of alabaster we saw today. Well, you cannot see anything like this but plastic; at the
most glass. At the most glass. In India we have silk, we have everything. But everybody looks down
upon us. [Mother briefly asks about the food then picks up the thread) In Switzerland if you buy one
cotton shirt, it's so expensive. Even rice, this, that. This banking business. No art, no art.
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-7.txt 
 Talk to Doctors
- Hormones
Derby, England, 10th July 1982
Sahaja Yogi: Mullerian duct is something new about these two main lines that are in the
[embryo].
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it is the, reproducts it and the...
Sahaja Yogi: They reproduct in the kidney, they reproduct and [unclear] I would [unclear]. I
have no idea. You see [unclear] in the embryo Shri Mataji, the first thing they develop, it's very
interesting, is the, the brain. Not the brain but the neuron placement. [Alternative] separates to form
the spinal chord. Kundalini in other words does [create] that. Not in the spinal chord. What is it ? the
neuron, Christy?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Is the neuron tube.
Sahaja Yogi: It's the, it's the basis of that, of the spine itself.
Another Sahaja Yogi: The neuron tube.
Shri Mataji: The medullar chord itself.
Sahaja Yogi: Ha, and the segments. And then the rest developments around it, half. But all that
endocrine glands come from this reed, this pattern it's the very interesting.
Shri Mataji: That means that they are from the Ida and Pingala.
Sahaja Yogi: Hmm.
Shri Mataji: They are the stored energy of Ida and Pingala.
Sahaja Yogi: Because it emits two side things afterwards, [none] of them, Mullerian ducts or
something like that.
Shri Mataji: Actually, first they are formed, then maintain them.
Sahaja Yogi: That's right. First that is right, first to do like that, these Mullerian ducts, you
know.
Shri Mataji: Why are they [doctors]? Because they are aiders. Energies don't require
[practice]. They emit energy. You see, anything [that is put low as the floor] require the... Actually
[doctors] [Hindi] They are energy pockets. And they emit energy, [emit energy].
Sahaja Yogi: The whole thing, yes,
but.
Shri Mataji: So these are actually the energies. These are formed by the left and right and
central, all of them. And these energy pockets are placed there, close of that. If we go right side, right-
sided. If there's a left side [needed], left side. [I mean if there's a dirt/dint of right side] they start
flowing. Dirt/dint of left side they start flowing. So to have a coil in respect the difference comes.
These are energy pockets.
Sahaja Yogi: And another thing, Ma.
Another Sahaja Yogi: In the embryonic stage, Ma?
8
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-8.txt 
 Shri Mataji: No, no, more they are [beyond this].
Sahaja Yogi: In the other. Even beyond, even beyond.
Shri Mataji: In the embryonic stage these are energies.
Sahaja Yogi: As, as, as pockets of it.
Shri Mataji: In the embryonic stage actually the energies flow in a channel but they do not
have that state.
Sahaja Yogi: Right.
Shri Mataji: Now, is the, that... Like a dynamo. They create dynamo, we call them, left and
right side can create a [dynamo]. And you can have a battery or something like that it's reproduced.
That's what they have a battery produced [to send a signal]. Now they become batteries or not that,
that's a dynamo, or something that emits, manifests, like a light.
Sahaja Yogi: Another thing it's in.
Shri Mataji: Stored up in it. Left and right sided stored up in it.
Sahaja Yogi: You see, and that's a significant act in the beginning to say also you [pop] the five
elements in the neuron tube, three constituting the left side, right side and center and two the Atma
and Kundalini.
Shri Mataji: Yeah.
Sahaja Yogi: Which open out, [does use] these pockets and the other opening out is the, is the
Atma here and the [seedling] that becoming the grosser aspect [it's no other than] the heart and the
sacrum which is the residence of the Atma and the Kundalini.
Sahaja Yogi: You see, Atma is [that thing].
Sahaja Yogi: Atma is that?
Shri Mataji: Atma is the reflect, is the object which reflects. This is the reflector. And that
reflector is separate from you. And when this reflecting will work out, then the Ida and Pingala Nadi,
both of them together, produce these energy pockets. All right? And then keep for the reflector for
[its use/its switch]. Then when the reflector is perfect then the reflector is [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: All right. This is the mechanism. This is the machine of the Kundalini that what
you can call a tantra. The whole, I mean, the whole chakric system is the machinery of the Atma.
Shri Mataji: Is the machinery of the Atma.
Sahaja Yogi: To work out that reflection of the Atma, protect it and to [unclear].
Sahaja Yogi: I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say like this.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I can see that.
Sahaja Yogi: No, to do an analogy, we say that energy that is going to flow in this machinery is
the Kundalini which is going to work and this energy gets connected through the All-pervading
Power, to Atma. So it's like a plug. All right? Now this All-pervading Power is the power of God
Almighty. So we have God Almighty or His All-pervading Power. This All-pervading Power is felt
by a plug here which is the Atma, the reflection of God. And this energy, when it gets to the plug it
feels this higher energy which is the power ofthe Atma, of the Paramatma. [Can you cover?]
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Yes.
9.
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-9.txt 
 Shri Mataji: You get something like the Rolls Royce [in you].
Sahaja Yogi: We, just, just, You know, in the simplistic terms, does the Atma actually rise in
conjunction with the power that is Kundalini or is it, where is it touched the All-pervading Power this
point or obviously this point?
Shri Mataji: [Where it's perceived?]
Sahaja Yogi: That is [here]. So it rises.
Sahaja Yogi: But in the human being it [resides] in the heart, of course. It comes out [of this
nature]. Sense of reflection, that moves, reflection that moves.
Sahaja Yogi: One thing which is quite interesting, Mataji, that all the hormones that are
produced by the Swadhisthana, they are all made out of fat. They are all steroids.
Shri Mataji: Now does that explain such a use of the body? This is called as so be in the
[Vishnu]. Devi is called as made in the [Vishnu].
Sahaja Yogi: Hmm. That's right.
Shri Mataji: That She stays, the power stays with the [made up] do not [depart ofit]. Now how
is fat produced according to the medical science? Let's see?
Sahaja Yogi: Nicely in the liver.
Shri Mataji: Perfect.
Sahaja Yogi: Formed in the liver and transported out and laid down.
Shri Mataji: But how? How does liver produce fat?
Sahaja Yogi: Of lipids.
Sahaja Yogi: Direct digestion. Whatever fat it digests...
Shri Mataji: Digested by?
Sahaja Yogi: By liver.
Shri Mataji: By?
Sahaja Yogi: Intestines.
Shri Mataji: Intestines. Then?
Sahaja Yogi: Then from sugar also creates fat, can.
Shri Mataji: Hmm?
Sahaja Yogi: Can create sugar from fat.
Shri Mataji: From sugar? Reaction is what?
Sahaja Yogi: Not sure actually. Sugar, which. I'm not sure, Mataji, which is the [unclear]. How
does the liver produce fat out of sugar?
Another Sahaja Yogi: By glycemia genesis. It's a...
Sahaja Yogi: No, that's the opposite. That's producing the sugar.
Another Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]
Sahaja Yogi: [That's getting an invert]
10
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-10.txt 
 Sahaja Yogini: Why?
Sahaja Yogi: That's coming back into sugar. I do not know what to. I thought that You know
Mother it does it automatically, use the sugar with sugar and does it.
Another Sahaja Yogi: So we're missing something very subtle.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, is something more subtle.
Sahaja Yogi: Nothing, it's very simple, very gross.
Sahaja Yogi: [Try Mother.]
Shri Mataji: Sugar never gets into fat [unclear]. Actually, this is [autonomous] system. Sugar
digests all the fat.
Sahaja Yogi: That is true. When it goes in the worse [cause] the death, sudden death.
Shri Mataji: It just takes sugar into fat. It will never produce fat.
Sahaja Yogi: Never produce fat.
Shri Mataji: It cannot do that so.
Sahaja Yogi: That is true also.
Shri Mataji: Because no carbohydrates. It just have gluten and fats. Is never [carbohydrate].
There's no carbohydrate. Carbohydrates actually dissolve fats. I will not [percolate]. Creates called
diabetes. Is this fact? Have you? Have you ever saw? [Hindi] Just carbohydrates. Achcha, there are
those kinds of carbohydrates. Yes? So now, is all right? Carbohydrates? Sugar never gets converted
into fat. So [unclear], outside is prepared. So means question [remains Or limit].
Sahaja Yogi: That's a big one thrown in the [unclear] in the webs and medical science, isn't it?
Another Sahaja Yogi: No, but the [that's medical science]. They have to change all the text
books now.
Shri Mataji: From where that fat is, that fat is produced in the human beings or in the [animals
Or cells?], how?
Sahaja Yogi: By digestion, using sugar as a catalyst [it does absorb].
Shri Mataji: With. But that is [what] source of fat comes from where? For us, and for any
digestion [group], so we go into the basic?
Sahaja Yogi: I don't know, Mataji.
Shri Mataji: There is something converting into fat.
Another Sahaja Yogi: The string of the fatty acids together...
Shri Mataji: Hmmm?
Another Sahaja Yogi: String of fatty acids together with glycerols.
Sahaja Yogi: No, but Mataji is [unclear].
Another Sahaja Yogi: Oh, is it?
Shri Mataji: So what did he say?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Said, polymerized fatty acids with glycerol.
Sahaja Yogi: He's giving the chemical reaction that produces fat which is fatty acids plus
11
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-11.txt 
 glycerol.
Shri Mataji: No, no, but these people [used it]. What is the reaction you say? Just tell that.
Sahaja Yogi: Just polymerizing the fatty acids with glycerol to get fat.
Shri Mataji: Glycerin. From glycerol?
Sahaja Yogi: Glycerol plus fatty acids.
Shri Mataji: But fatty acids from where do they come?
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: [If you are getting.] What is the source of fatty acids?
Sahaja Yogi: From the food.
Another Sahaja Yogi: But where do they? Somewhere must have [unclear]?
Shri Mataji: [Some and what then?]
Sahaja Yogi: I don't know.
Shri Mataji: [So you are going to the] oxygen, everything.
Sahaja Yogi: Fatty acids are produced, you see, if you go back to plant [lesson], Mataji, fatty
acids are produced basically by things that eat, vegetables.
Shri Mataji: Ah, vegetables? Supposing we eat them but where does it come from?
Sahaja Yogi: Cellulose.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Sahaja Yogi: You mean it's ... It's [private]. It's primordial.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Sahaja Yogi: From the earth.
Shri Mataji: Simple.
Sahaja Yogi: From the earth element.
Shri Mataji: No. In the earth element we have got oils, already. With the earth element oils
[even] which are produced carbohydrates.
Sahaja Yogi: No, it cannot be.
Shri Mataji: All right? So the petrol you can't eat, can you?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I cannot adjust it.
Shri Mataji: None of the oils that are produced by Mother Earth we have it. So which is the fat
that we get? What is the source of that fat?
Sahaja Yogi: Don't know, Mother.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Well, vegetation.
Shri Mataji: What are you so [unclear] carries the Mother Earth.
Sahaja Yogi: Plants and plants and animals.
Shri Mataji: [unclear]. Same oils are converted by the plants and by the sun into subtler fats.
12
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-12.txt 
 Sahaja Yogi: Achcha, so the subtles and the fats are.
Shri Mataji: What we use is nothing but petrol.
Sahaja Yogi: Then we shouldn't burn it, Mother. Another day they used to say that petrol
was originally plants.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Hmm, that's right.
Shri Mataji: You see, this petrol is made subtler for the use of man by the action of the sun.
Who watches the sun away is prana. So gana acts on the Mother Earth, the petrol and creates the
fat which is available.
Sahaja Yogi: For us.
Shri Mataji: Means for this motorcar a new petrol is made that way. All right?
Sahaja Yogi: So that is why.
Shri Mataji: But within it is the hydrogen.
Sahaja Yogi: So fat is very unusual, Mother. And that is only carbon and hydrogen and
oxygen and contains no nitrogen.
Shri Mataji: Mmm?
Sahaja Yogi: Fat is a very high per cent hydro or what's it hydrogen in relation with oxygen,
isn't it? Much higher than.
Shri Mataji: Only hydrogen they just [cut it].
Sahaja Yogi: Hydrogen in relation with oxygen.
Shri Mataji: So it is the moon. This is the action of moon, sun and the Mother Earth, inside
to support it. But in human beings it is formed as flabbiness. As fat is produced and the moon
[created] this fat. Flabbiness.
Sahaja Yogi: That is why until the Mooladhara chakra opens, the Swadhisthana cannot
open fully. The Mooladhara chakra, I think you were telling in [Jamail], Mataji, that in Puja,
when we do Puja, Mooladhara chakra opens and then Swadhisthana opens.
Shri Mataji: If your Mooladhara is closed up I think I'm [stopped/stucked]. But it's slightly
opened in somebody. What I try to say that when the left side hydrogen within us, that's mixed
with [water, water], that means more hydrogen is added, through the water some [unclear] is
formed and that is the one which forms fat. So most of the people are fat are left-sided.
up
Sahaja Yogi: That I admit. My patients when they come in [there] they get fat.
Shri Mataji: Aaa?
Sahaja Yogi: I, I noticed something very interesting, Mother. When I was a [registry] I
joined the psychiatric also there. All third year was joined together. And I noticed within six
months they all put on weight, specially here the young. All the young doctors.
Shri Mataji: In the psychiatric hospitals whatever they have. Too much of hydrogen.
Sahaja Yogi: Too much left. But I noticed since coming to work here I put on a lot of weight
as if like a reaction.
Shri Mataji: So like this you do that hydrogen comes from moon and that the hydrogen then
13
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-13.txt 
 it reacts on water and gives more hydrogen. Then fats are formed as flab to begin with. And then you
get fatty acids. Ifit doesn't go in the chest it goes in the blood.
Sahaja Yogi: What diseases are caused by too much flab/flam Mother?
Shri Mataji: Too much fat?
Sahaja Yogi: Too much flab/flam. Or too much fat even.
Shri Mataji: So, [jada]. Hydrogen. It makes you [jada].
Sahaja Yogi: So arthritis.
Shri Mataji: Mmm?
Sahaja Yogi: Arthritis is caused by.
Shri Mataji: All kinds of arthritis in circulation.
Sahaja Yogi: Could they also be responsible for breathing troubles and bronchitis and
[unclear]?
t goes into the lungs.
Shri Mataji: Ifit
Sahaja Yogi: Achcha, achcha.
Shri Mataji: Flab, if it goes into the lungs.
Sahaja Yogi: So the whole thing revolves around the relative amount of the moon.
Shri Mataji: Moon is the first.
Sahaja Yogi: In the first.
Shri Mataji: But it is always at a contrast with the sun.
Sahaja Yogi: Do You have anything, Mother, to do with the moon in Your Kundalini?
Shri Mataji: Moon in your?
Sahaja Yogi: Kundalini. [Jag Ma]Kundalini.
Shri Mataji: Ofcourse. Of course, must be.
Sahaja Yogi: Where is that?
Another Sahaja Yogi: That [is] Your horoscope.
Shri Mataji: Moon is very important. As [Hindi] this moon is important.
Sahaja Yogi: So what is the significance, Mother, as if we take it sign by sign? Like my moon is
in [Hindi] so what defects?
Shri Mataji: Oh, that I don't know.
Sahaja Yogi: You don't know about that. It's OK.
Shri Mataji: But that [Hindi] is Sagittarius. That means as far as Atma is concerned, you are
straightforward. That's why in India we use the, not signs, but another thing.
Sahaja Yogi: The [Rakshi].
Shri Mataji: The lunar.
Sahaja Yogi: Aaa, [Rakshi] that is lunar.
14
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-14.txt 
 Shri Mataji: Because for us the left side, the moon is important.
Sahaja Yogi: And [Lakhna] is in the middle.
Shri Mataji: Aaa?
Sahaja Yogi: Three things we use: [lakhna], surya or [rashi]. So [lakhna] is what, Mother?
That is, must be the Mooladhara.
Shri Mataji: [Lakhna]is...
Sahaja Yogi: Or for horoscope.
Shri Mataji: I mean, in private you have this as nitrogen. This is nitrogen, actually. The
[centre] comes through nitrogen.
Sahaja Yogi: So [lakhna] is the centre of one's existence. So when someone's [lakhna] what
your [lakhna] is, will describe your...
Shri Mataji: It's a combination, everything [reverbs/reverts] on the [chakras].
Sahaja Yogi: So we have chandran and the lakhna or [Hindi] in lakhna. We're thinking that
they are prop for your ascent.
Shri Mataji: I don't know all that.
Sahaja Yogi: But this is also part of vidya, Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Just now we are dealing with [chandra].
Sahaja Yogi: You can also think about and at a very large scale that at the same degree of
subtlety, countries which are producing, areas which are producing oily plants, oily plants, are
opened that sided. That's, that's, if you think geographically...
Another Sahaja Yogi: Mustard for example. They are very full of mustard.
Shri Mataji: Yeah?
Sahaja Yogi: Yeah. This area it grows a lot of mustard.
Another Sahaja Yogi: And just so just thinking about areas around the world and the...
Shri Mataji: One can work it out. Means you have got the principle and then use it.
Sahaja Yogi: What about these countries which are extracting oil from the earth? They must
be having a very harmful effect on the...
Shri Mataji: Who? Those who are extracting?
Sahaja Yogi: It's going the other way.
Shri Mataji: But you see the thing is, they extract oil...
Sahaja Yogi: They don't have to face...
Shri Mataji: They have no subtler ways. Otherwise are very thin people, extremely thin.
Sahaja Yogi: They are going against...
Shri Mataji: Mmmm?
Sahaja Yogi: They are going against this principle, aren't they?
Shri Mataji: Yes, that is full of [subtlety] in extraction of these oils. But they are very thin.
15
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-15.txt 
 Sahaja Yogi: That is why their point and one thing that is obvious is that any country that
produces oil has some battle or fight is going on there. Iraq, most of these countries that produce oil,
they are having some problem or other.
Shri Mataji: Sun is, no? The sun makes this. It's a scorching hot place. And the sun has created
all of that. In that sun you find this. Because there's no moon in, no moon at all. That's why
Mohammed Sahab wanted them to worship the moon.
Sahaja Yogi: To get the balance.
Shri Mataji: Right.
Another Sahaja Yogi: And also previously the Semitic people of this area were much heavier,
much chantier than they are today.
Shri Mataji: Which place is that?
Sahaja Yogi: The Middle East generally. The Semitic people in, in early time, in really early
time. Much before.
Shri Mataji: Yeah. Youth, youth were never been taught normally. They have to be seen, aren't
they?
Sahaja Yogi: Generally, yeah.
Shri Mataji: [The central to be seen].
Sahaja Yogi: But that's nowadays.
Shri Mataji: Ha. Nowadays. And that's they've got, I mean, they are going very right side.
Sahaja Yogi: Jewish men especially are very thin.
Shri Mataji: Can be. [Yes].
I can say there are very few fat. It is true.
Sahaja Yogi:
Shri Mataji: Hmm?
Sahaja Yogi: Very, very few of them are fat.
Shri Mataji: Mmm. Same with Arabs. If you see Arabs.
Sahaja Yogi: But that's misuse of the energy, isn't it Mother?
Shri Mataji: Yes, misuse or overuse.
Sahaja Yogi: More overuse, yeah.
Shri Mataji: Overuse. In fact, whatever reactions are nonsense because the sun is there
scorchingly [hot/hard]. The, they take out the... The oil....
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Is formed there. They take out the oil. It's such a [temperature or formed there?].
You can't blame them. You can't blame the nature. Because of their temperament. Forget it.
Sahaja Yogi: But I remember descriptions in the Old Testament that they are waiting people.
Shri Mataji: They are all [unclear] one. That was in Iran or in Egypt there they are. See, they
never got it.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I'll think about it.
16
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-16.txt 
 Shri Mataji: That's why in Iran they worshipped the sun. In Egypt they worshipped the sun.
Sahaja Yogi: No balance at all. You have seen, Mother, that Indra's capital was in Iran, some
[quite near]. That's a very right-sided.
Shri Mataji: Ofcourse, of course. Very right-sided.
Sahaja Yogi: As well as [bond]to strive on.
Shri Mataji: [unclear] the memory.
Sahaja Yogi: Even to this day the Parsees is all on the right, absolutely on the right. They have
no [left side].
Shri Mataji: Very [unclear]. Parsees are very selfish, very right-sided. All right. So that.
Where are we?
Sahaja Yogi: Well, maybe You showed this source of fats. Then we were back to the point of
the Tao.
Shri Mataji: But what neutralizes fat now?
Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] one.
Shri Mataji: Prana comes from proteins, you see. Chana is [udandaya] Sahaja Yogi. Gives you
the Udan, Udan with the Sahaja Yogis. But with others it can give them belching or can give them
gases. It can be both ways.
Sahaja Yogi: What happens to, where do we use, Mother? Gives you what?
Shri Mataji: Udan, udan.
Sahaja Yogi: It's one of the five Pranas.
Shri Mataji: Prana that goes upwards.
Sahaja Yogi: Ha Tha. [Udana] the first.
Shri Mataji: But the Udana Prana can give belching to people who do not have their chakras
opened. [Nabhi comes].
Sahaja Yogi: So the five Pranas must be... What are their various functions of these udaan,
vyana...
Shri Mataji: Vyana.
Sahaja Yogi: Apana. Apana. Vyana.
Shri Mataji: Vyana is the one that [distributes] coming. [Hindi] Rhythm. Rhythm. All right,
who will take them out? She, she wants to. Can you? Go.
Sahaja Yogi: Such a ... But it's not only the protein part of the chana. It's the carbohydrate part
as well.
Shri Mataji: Hmmm?
Sahaja Yogi: The carbohydrate part of the chana as well will help, won't it?
Shri Mataji: Carbohydrate?
Sahaja Yogi: That, that part as well as protein part will assist in this...
Shri Mataji: Chana has very little carbohydrate.
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 श्री ईसा
हा
विश्व के आधार
18
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 भगवान ईसा मसीह
श्री ईसा विश्व के आधार है। इस पवित्रता, इस मंगलमयता का सृजन एक अण्डे के रूप में किया गया और
फिर इसे दो भागों में तोड़ा गया। पहला भाग श्री गणेश हैं और
दूसरा आधा विकसित होकर परिपक्व अवस्था में
ईसामसीह बना। ईसा स्वयं ओंकार हैं तथा चैतन्य लहरियाँ भी स्वयं ही हैं। शेष सभी अवतरणों को शरीर धारण
करने के लिये पृथ्वीतत्व लेना पड़ा। ईसा का शरीर पूर्णत: ओंकार है तथा श्री गणेश उनका पृथ्वीतत्व हैं। अत:
हम कह सकते है कि ईसा श्री गणेश की अवतरित शक्ति हैं। यही कारण है कि वे जल पर चल सकते हैं। वे देवत्व
का निर्मलतम रूप हैं।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, ३.४.१९९४
किया गया......इस
शिशु में केवल पृथ्वीतत्व का अंश विद्यमान था.....आज्ञा चक्र पर जिस अन्तिम तत्व में से गुज़रना पड़ा वह
आरम्भ में जब श्री गणेश के रूप में उनका ( श्री ईसामसीह) का सृजन
था प्रकाशतत्व अर्थात उन्हें दिव्य शक्ति के सच्चे रूप में आना पड़ा-ओंकार रूप में। आप यह भी कह सकते
हैं कि चैतन्य लहरियों के रूप में जिसे आप नाद या शब्द ब्रह्म आदि कुछ कहते है। अत: उन्हें ब्रह्मतत्व बनना
पड़ा और ब्रह्मतत्व बनने के लिए उन्हें अन्य सभी महातत्वों से अलग होना पड़ा। अंतिम तत्व प्रकाशतत्व
था, इन्हें (श्री ईसामसीह) इसको पार करना पड़ा। तो उनके अन्दर पृथ्वीतत्व था क्योंकि उबटन के मल से
उनका सृजन हुआ तथा और भी तत्व उनमें थे, परन्तु जब वे आज्ञा चक्र पर आते हैं तो बाकी सभी तत्व
उन्हें छोड़ने पड़ते हैं और अपने अन्दर मौजूद इन सभी तत्वों को निकालने के लिए उन्हें (श्री ईसामसीह)
मरना पड़ता है-पूर्ण, संपूर्ण पावन आत्मा बनने के लिए जो कार्य उन्होंने सूक्ष्म रूप में किया वह स्थूल रूप
में कार्यान्वित होता है, इसी कार्य को करने के लिए उन्हें मरना पड़ा। उनके अन्दर जिस चीज़ की मृत्यु हुई
थी वह थी उनके अन्दर का पृथ्वीतत्व तथा अन्य तत्व और उनसे 'पावन आत्मा' का उद्भव हुआ।
उनका पुनर्जन्म हुआ, पावन आत्मा का, शुद्ध ब्रह्मतत्व का, जिसने ईसामसीह के शरीर की रचना
की....उन्हें रक्षक इसलिए कहा जाता है क्योंकि मानव को शारीरिक संवेदना से ऊपर उठाने के लिए उन्होंने यह
द्वार पार किया अर्थात् उन लोगों को जो पंचमहाभूतों पर निर्भर करते हैं उन्हें आत्मा के स्तर पर लाने के लिए।
के चित्त पर छलाँग लगा लेते हैं, जहाँ आप अपने
अत: पुनर्जन्म वह है जहाँ आप....अपने चित्त से आत्मा
चित्त को महसूस कर पाते हैं। यही घटना आपके साथ घटित हुई है, परन्तु जब उनका पुनर्जन्म हुआ तो वे शुद्ध
आत्मा, शुद्ध ब्रह्मतत्व बन गए। पुनर्जन्म, मूलाधार चक्र से पृथ्वी तत्व के रूप में आरम्भ हुई, उस दिव्य शक्ति की
उत्क्रान्ति की घटना है जिसने वहाँ (मूलाधार चक्र) जन्म लिया और आज्ञा चक्र पर आई। वहाँ पर सभी तत्वों
को पार करके अन्तत: सहस्रार में प्रवेश करके पूर्ण ब्रह्मतत्व बनने के लिए ईसामसीह का सृजन किया गया।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, ११.४.१९८२
ईसामसीह श्रीकृष्ण के पुत्र थे। वे मानव के चारित्रिक आधार हैं।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २३.४.२००१
19
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-19.txt 
 .वे एक आदर्श थे, एक आदर्श सन्त, आदर्श साक्षात्कारी व्यक्ति, एक ऐसे व्यक्ति की प्रतिमूर्ति जो हमारी रक्षा
करने के लिये स्वर्ग से आए। ईसामसीह ने मृत्यु के पश्चात पुनर्जन्म लिया था। सहजयोग में हमने भी मृत्यु के पश्चात
जीवन में प्रवेश किया है। यह बात समझ लेनी चाहिए कि पुनर्जन्म हम सबके लिये, पूरे विश्व के लिये, ये सन्देश है
कि हमें पुनर्जन्म प्राप्त करना है।
..ईसामसीह उस समय पर अवतरित हुए जब लोगों को आध्यात्मिकता का बिल्कुल भी ज्ञान न था परन्तु
जैसे तैसे सभी कुछ इतनी सुन्दरतापूर्वक कार्यान्वित हुआ कि लोग समझने लगे कि पुनरुत्थान महत्वपूर्ण है। आपका
भी जब पुनर्जन्म होता है तो कुण्डलिनी उठती है और आपका सम्बन्ध दिव्य शक्ति से जोड़ती है ।
..ईसामसीह एक अत्यन्त साधारण एवं गरीब व्यक्ति थे, एक बढ़ई के पुत्र। उनके लिये पैसा अधिक महत्वपूर्ण
न था। बेकार था। उनके लिये आत्मा सभी कुछ था। वे अत्यन्त ही विवेकशील थे और जिस प्रकार उन्होंने गिरजाघरों
में बड़े-बड़े पादरियों से धर्म की बातचीत की, वह अत्यन्त आश्चर्यजनक है कि किस प्रकार एक नन्हा बालक धर्म को
इतनी गहनतापूर्वक समझता है। नि:सन्देह उस समय वे छोटे से बालक थे परन्तु वे परमात्मा के बन्दे थे, परमात्मा
द्वारा सृजित। वे श्री गणेश थे, वे ॐ हैं, वे ज्ञान हैं, सभी कुछ हैं। इसके बावजूद भी उन्हें कोई पहचान नहीं सका
क्योंकि लोग सत्य को नहीं पहचान सकते।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, टर्की, २२.४.२००१
ईसामसीह के जीवन का सबसे बड़ा उद्देश्य ये था कि आपके अन्दर जो आज्ञाचक्र है उसका भेदन करें
और इसलिए उन्होंने अपने को क्रॉस पर टंगवा लिया और उसके बाद फिर से जीवित हो गए। यह चमत्कार
लगता है, पर परमेश्वरी कार्य कोई चमत्कार नहीं। इस प्रकार उन्होंने दिखाया कि मनुष्य इस आज्ञाचक्र से बाहर
जा सकता है।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २५.१२.२०००
आज्ञाचक्र को खोलने के लिये फाँसी चढ़ने की आवश्यकता नहीं है और न ही क्रूसारोपित होने की
आवश्यकता है। आवश्यकता है अहम् को क्रूसारोपित करने की। अहं ऐसी चीज़ है जिससे जल्दी से मुक्ति नहीं
प्राप्त की जा सकती।
..ईसामसीह को अत्यन्त युवावस्था में ही क्रूसारोपित कर दिया गया। उनका क्रूसारोपित होना बताता है कि वे
मृत्यु से नहीं डरते थे और जानते थे कि वे पुनर्जन्म पा लेंगे। ये कार्य उन्हें आज्ञाचक्र के माध्यम से करना पड़ा ।
आज्ञाचक्र बहुत ही तंग है और उन्हें इस मार्ग में से गुज़रना था और इस पर स्थापित होना था।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २२.४.२००१
आज्ञाचक्र पर उन्होंने दो मन्त्र बताये, इन्हें हम बीजमन्त्र कहते हैं - हूँ और क्षम्। क्षमा का मतलब क्षमा
करो। क्षमा करना, यह सबसे बड़ा मन्त्र है, जो आदमी क्षमा करना जानता है उसका ईगो (अहं) जो है वो नष्ट हो जाता
है।.....सो दो चीजें ईसामसीह ने बतायीं, एक तो यह कि आप सबको क्षमा कर दो, दूसरी बात जो कही उन्होंने
20
 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-20.txt 
 कि तुम आत्मा हो, इस आत्मा को जानो। आत्मा को तो कोई छू भी नही सकता। उसको सता नहीं सकता।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २५.१२.२०००
ईसामसीह ने आत्मबलिदान किया। अपने जीवन को बलिदान करने का कार्य स्वीकार करके और फिर
स्वयं को पुनर्जीवित किया। आज्ञाचक्र के संकुचित मार्ग से वे गुज़रे ताकि आप लोग केवल इतना कहकर ठीक हो
सको कि 'मैं सबको क्षमा करता हूँ।' क्षमा का गुण जब इतना शक्तिशाली है कि आप इसके माध्यम से मृत्यु से भी
लड़ सकते हैं तो क्यों न क्षमा कर दी जाये?
हमारे आज्ञाचक्र को खोलने के लिये ईसा का पुनर्जन्म हुआ। आज्ञाचक्र अति सूक्ष्म केन्द्र है। अपने
बन्धनों तथा अहं से प्राप्त विचारों के कारण लोगों की आज्ञा इतनी अवरोधित हो गयी थी कि इसमें से कुण्डलिनी
का पार होना असम्भव था। ईसा क्योंकि चैतन्य का ही रूप थे, अत: पुनर्जन्म का खेल रचा गया। हमें समझना
चाहिए कि ईसा की मृत्यु द्वारा ही हमें हमारा पुनर्जन्म प्राप्त हुआ है और भूतकाल की मृत्यु हो गयी, हमारे
पश्चाताप और बन्धन समाप्त हो गए।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, इटली, १४.४.१९९२
ईसामसीह ने हमें यह शिक्षा दी कि उनके हृदय में मानव मात्र के लिये प्रेम था और वे सभी लोगों को
पुनरुत्थान के लिये तैयार करना चाहते थे। वे सहजयोग के आने के पूर्व अवतरित हुए। उन्होंने यदि यह कार्य न
किया होता तो मेरे लिये यह उपलब्धि प्राप्त करना कठिन होता। इस प्रकार उन्होंने सहजयोग के लिये स्थितियाँ
बनायीं जिसके कारण आप लोगों के आज्ञाचक्र खुले और आज्ञाचक्र को पार करके कुण्डलिनी को ऊपर ले
जाकर आप अपने सहस्रार को, अपने तालूअस्थि क्षेत्र खोल सकते हैं। उन्होंने सोचा कि लोगों के प्रति प्रेम का
यही अंग-प्रत्यंग है, इसलिये ईसा ने यह कार्य किया और बहुत से लोगों का हित किया।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २२.४.२००१
अगर ईसामसीह इस संसार में न आते और अपने को आज्ञा चक्र में बिठाकर तारण का मार्ग, पुनर्जीवन
का मार्ग न बताते तो सहजयोग साध्य न हो सकता। उनका आना अति आवश्यक था।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २५.१२.१९९०
.... सहजयोग में ईसामसीह हमारे अत्यन्त सहायक हैं। ......ईसामसीह हमें इस बात का ज्ञान करवाते
हैं कि हम अपने आज्ञा चक्र खोलें, इससे ऊपर उठें। यहाँ हम इसे तीसरी आँख कहते हैं। तीसरी आँख
खुलने का अर्थ यह है कि आपके आज्ञाचक्र पर ईसामसीह जागृत हो गये हैं। यही तीसरी आँख हैं।
ईसामसीह आपके अन्दर साक्षी भाव का सृजन करते हैं और आप पूरे नाटक के दृष्टा मात्र बन जाते हैं। पूरे
नाटक को आप देखने लगते हैं और आश्चर्यचकित होते हैं कि आप कितने शान्त हैं, किस प्रकार निर्विचार
चेतना में हैं और बिना प्रतिक्रिया करे किस प्रकार हर चीज़ को देखते हैं। यह वह स्थान है जहाँ हमें ये बात माननी
पड़ती है कि ईसामसीह हमारे आज्ञाचक्र पर प्रकट हुए, वहीं उनका पुनर्जन्म हुआ। ये सब हमारे अन्दर घटित हो
चुका है। मशीन के पुजों की तरह से हमारे अन्दर सूक्ष्म तन्त्र को बनाया गया है और हमारे अन्दर भिन्न चक्र
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 और ऊर्जा केन्द्र हैं। यह अन्तिम चक्र कठिनतम है, उसे वास्तव में ईसामसीह ने खोला।
ईसामसीह ने ही ये कार्य करने का साहस किया और इसे इतने सुन्दर ढंग से किया कि अब हमारे
अन्दर अहं को देख पाने की योग्यता है। जब आप अपने अहं को देखते हैं तो हैरान होते हैं कि जो भी
कार्य आप करते हैं, जितना भी कुछ आप करते रहें, आप थकेंगे नहीं। थकते तो आप इसलिए हैं कि
आपका अहं सदैव यही कहता रहता है ओह! आप इतने महान है, अन्य लोगों के लिये आप इतना सारा
काम कर रहे हैं, आपने तो इतना कुछ प्राप्त कर लिया है, आदि-आदि। तो इसी प्रकार अहम् हर समय
हमारी झूठी महानता के विषय में हमें बढावा देता रहता है और हम स्वयं को महान मान बैठते हैं।
इस दुष्ट अहंकार का दूसरा पक्ष बन्धन (Conditioning) है। इसका भी अत्यन्त सूक्ष्म
सम्बन्ध है। ईसामसीह के प्रति हमें आभारी होना है कि उन्होंने पुनरुत्थान को कार्यान्वित किया ताकि
हर विवेक बुद्धि को प्राप्त कर सकें, परमेश्वरी विवेक को प्राप्त कर सकें। ये ऐसा संघर्ष है, ऐसा मार्ग है,
... ..
जिसका सृजन उन्होंने किया ताकि अत्यन्त आसानी से हम कठिनाई को पार कर सकें जिससे
हमारे अहं और बन्धनों का अन्त हो जाए।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, २२.४.२००१
अहंकार को देखने का प्रयत्न करें और उस समय यदि आप ईसामसीह का नाम लेंगे तो
अहंकार चला जाएगा। ईसामसीह का नाम लेने मात्र से आपका अहंकार दूर हो जाएगा।
हमारे उत्थान के लिये ईसामसीह अत्यन्त महत्वपूर्ण अवतरण थे। यदि वे स्वयं पुनर्जीवित न हुए
होते तो हमें उत्थान प्राप्त न हो पाता। ईसा का पुनर्जीवन आपके जीवन से प्रत्यक्ष है। पहले आप क्या थे
और आज क्या हैं, कितना अन्तर है, कितना कायापलट है? उनके बलिदान और पुनर्जीवन ने हम
सबके लिये यह परिवर्तित अवस्था प्राप्त करने का मार्ग बनाया है।
पर यह अवस्था मानव के लिये भिन्न है तथा ईसा के लिये भिन्न। ईसा स्वयं पवित्रता तथा विशुद्धता
थे। उनका पुनर्जीवन मात्र एक शारीरिक घटना थी क्योंकि उन्हें कायापलट की कोई आवश्यकता नहीं
थी, उन्हें शुद्धिकरण नहीं करना पड़ा। मृत्यु से उनका पुनर्जीवित होना इस बात का प्रतीक है कि
मानव का आध्यात्मविहीन जीवन मृत्युसम है, क्योंकि मानव पूर्णत्व, वास्तविकता तथा पूर्ण सत्य
को समझे बिना ही सभी कुछ करता रहता है। उसका हर कर्म अन्ततोगत्वा उसे विनाश की ओर ले
जाता है। यहाँ तक कि इन अवतरणों द्वारा चलाये धर्म भी पतनोन्मुख हैं, इन अवतरणों के प्रतिनिधि
कहलाने वाले लोगों में भी धार्मिकता का नामोनिशान नहीं मिलता।
प.पू.श्री माताजी, इटली, ११.४.१९९३
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 2014_Yuvadrishti_Mx_IV.pdf-page-23.txt 
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Similarly your Spirit is pure.
-H.H.Shri Mataji Nirmaladevi, 24.5.1981, London
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