Public program, "We are all seeking", Caxton Hall, London, 20 March 1978.

Gregoire has said so many things that I really don’t know what to say after that. Really dumbfounded. I know it’s a fact and you have to face it, though I’m bashful about it.

You were all seeking, and I think, from the time I remember, I haven’t met anyone who was not seeking. They may be seeking in money, in power. But so many of them were really seeking something beyond. In the West, I always felt all the great sages of the old and the ancient times who were seeking God, are born. I could see, the way you have  abhorred materialism; the way you have achieved a kind of a understanding about life, is a new thing.

At the time of Christ, it was not possible to see such people except for some lepers and some sickly people. There was nobody else who was willing to look at Him. Times have changed no doubt. But, in this seeking, many people have committed lots of mistakes. Mistakes can be forgiven always. They should be rectified.

I’ve been born with this. I knew I had to do this and I knew I had to be in London one day. All the people who are of a very high, evolved status, I can say, who do not live in the humdrum of life, who do not roam about as gurus and earn money, who do not claim to be pundits and the temples’ and the priest people, those who live away from all of you, hiding themselves in the jungles, they knew it was to happen. They knew about it. But when the seeking started in the West, like a demand the supply came in. We have so many Sahaja Yogis here sitting down. I would say they are real seekers because they reunite to fight.

There few things, you can make it out very easily when we have, before us, the life of Christ, by which you can make out who is the true person and who is not. It’s not difficult.

For example, a person who takes money from you, cannot be, cannot be a person who belongs to God. A person who belongs to God doesn’t think much of money or anything. If he’s rich, he lives like a rich person. If he’s poor, he lives like a poor person; but at heart he’s a king. Christ was a son of a carpenter. I see His pictures and I see His Mother’s pictures adorned with jewellery. She had only two robes to change. Perhaps it was never realized that money cannot purchase God. In the name of God and religion things have gone so far, so far that I do not blame human beings for taking to science, instead of God.

The misinterpretation has been so much, one can understand. But when there are so many false things in the world - copies - then one must know that there must be something absolute. It has to be.

London is regarded by all those I have been describing about, the people who are great sages, all over the world, as the heart. It saddens Me to see sometimes how people of England have not realized the value of this great country. In this country, long time, much before, much before even Christ came in, people have worked with Kundalini. Your Stonehenge is nothing but the Kundalini. Vibrations have worked in this country for ages now. Only I am here to introduce you to them. There is some gentleman I saw copying this Kundalini that we have already made for you, all the drawings and everything, for you to see and to understandwhere are, what are the chakras, and what are the deities ruling them.

You should not accept Me even when Gregoire has told you all about these things. Could be wrong. No blind faith is going to lead you to reality, not at all. By saying “Just believe me”, is a wrong style. You should not. But you should not also deny Me. Keep it open. For you are seeking, and if I have to just enlighten you because you should enlighten other people, one should not feel hurt about it. Somebody has to do it. You may be in this place or I may be in your place. Makes no difference. If there’s a candle, which is enlightened, which can enlighten other lights if they are ready, then it’s, maybe, that I may be knowing all the tricks of the trade. I may be having all the knowledge about it. It may be worth it to know all about that.

Let us not be very serious about it, just because Gregoire has struck such a serious note. It’s just a play. It’s just a play. It’s not that serious as we think it to be. It has to be a play because it is so important. All those things that are important are easiest for us – example: our breathing. Supposing for learning how to breathe, if you have to go to Caxton Hall, in the rain, walk all the way, listen to a big lecture and then learn about it, you’d be finished! In the same way, if we have to get our Realization by standing on our heads or by renouncing the whole world or, I don’t know, dancing on the Oxford Street and all sorts of things, then God save all the people who are seeking.

It has to be extremely simple – has to work out that way – because if evolution is complete, we would not have been in confusion. It is not complete, that’s why we are confused. Til the animal stage, there is no question of thinking about it. Only when you become human beings you start thinking about it. Only at the human stage you are given freedom to think about it. Animals are in collective consciousness all the time – in the sense they are not conscious of it, but they are driven by it.

[Pause in recording, Shri Mataji seems to be referring to a book]

...that the whole nature works in such a manner as if there are some organizer which are arranging their coordination, their harmony, their working. Not only that but the death of one thing helps to give life to another. For example, in the nature the leaves have to fall down to the ground to give nitrogen to the ground. Again, to be  again renovated, say- you can say, regenerated into the body of the tree to come again into its new foliage and to its bloom.

All kinds of, we can say, real experiments, he [the author] has given. But if you now go and read it, you will know he’s just talking about the collective be-ing, the mass be-ing that is there, the one in which we all exist as Self. And that He is looking after us in every way. And how everything in nature is interdependent; how animals understand; and how every amoeba and paramecium – is a unicellular cell – also understands what its group is doing and what are the signals and how he receives it. How bees understand where is the honey and how they go and come back the same way – there are no road-maps, nothing, miles together how do they travel, it’s very interesting.

And there are many books like this, which you can find from any biologist. Another is Du Noüy [French biologist, mathematician, philosophe]. He’s a great biologist, I must say. Biologists, because they deal with life, I think they are very much nearer the point.

Another one is Jung who had experimented with collective consciousness. He says that there are dreams we get, which are universally the same as far as the symbol is concerned. The symbols that they see, whether here or in India or in Australia or in Timbuktu, they are all, when decoded, expressing the same thing. For example, if it has to express a fear, harmony, anything, it expresses that. It’s surprising. After all, there is somebody who is throwing these symbols in the atmosphere where we live. From our unconscious, he says, these are coming.

But all these things are like the finding of people who are probing in the dark: they find something here and find something there, you find something there and you put it together. All these things can be put together. All these things can be bridged together, integrated together and can be shown, very easily, if you get your Self-realization.

Self within you, is in your heart. Your Self. You know there is somebody who knows everything about you. There is someone. If you murder someone, that one knows. If you do anything, that one knows. And that one that knows is the Self. Now when we talk of God, people have already negated God: they say, “Where is God? Let us see”. Without Self-realization, you cannot know Him. You cannot know Him through all these so-called conditionings that we have. Like we go to churches and pray, go to the temples and pray, sing songs and mantras and this and that. No. You cannot know Him through these things because still you are outside. You have to come inside. You’ve done all the steps, everything, you have to come inside, inside the door, sit down and receive it.

Self-knowledge is not the knowledge that, "You are a sinner, you are good for nothing or you are a king or you are such and such". This is all outside. Self-knowledge is that, that you are an instrument. You are an instrument and you have to act for the dynamic forces of that dynamic One, the vast personality whom we call as God Almighty. You are that. Only thing is your instrument is not yet connected with that. I said, "Til the animal stage, we are one with it". We have no problems. Only when we become human beings then the diagram shows there, you see, on the left, the black, right the black and another side is the yellow-coloured in the head.These are the two balloons, which grow with our activity, ego and superego. And they cover our head completely, by which this fontanel bone, which is a soft bone in the childhood – you have seen children they’re so much one with the collective consciousness – when it becomes hardened up there, it is because these two meet and overlap. Man is made like that. He has been given the freedom. He has been given the ‘I’ness. He develops this special thing. He has been given freedom because this is the last stage of evolution now. Man has to jump by himself-understanding it.

You do not know how you became human beings from amoeba to this stage. But human beings will have to know how they become one with themselves and how they enter into the kingdom of God. That is their right. And to have this right, they must have freedom and they must develop their wisdom and discretion, their temperance, how to use that freedom.

For this purpose, in our being there is already placed a residual power, which is called as Kundalini, at the base of the spine. It is there. Now. Many Sahaja Yogis, I would say thousands, in America and in India, and also other places, have seen it with their own eyes the pulsation of the Kundalini at that spine. If there is obstruction in the stomach, by some disease, or may be some other trouble ,then this pulsation is much heavier and you can see the Kundalini pulsating. Very clearly. The pulsation travels upward when the Kundalini rises. You can see that also. You can also feel the different chakras – is the centres – which are placed inside the spinal cord, not outside as some books have written. All kinds of funny things they have written about Kundalini. Anybody who felt like writing has written. From the books they have taken something, they have written such big, big books. It’s shocking because this is a very subtle thing and a holy thing. Most auspicious. The way they have handled Kundalini is something one cannot imagine!

The most, highest and the holiest of all, has been insulted, has been ruined by this kind of half-baked people just for earning some money. How long do you carry your money with you? Are you to carry it with you all your lives? Or for cheating people or for overpowering some people, all kinds of things have been done in this world in the name of God, in the name of Kundalini.

It really sometimes amazes me, how people are really seriously giving sermons and talking big in the name of God, wearing diamonds all over, bought by somebody else’s money. And how can we, the thinkers, the ones who have got brains, accept such a situation where we find, where we find that those who are so much interested in all these things are trying to impress others by getting it from others. We have been really misled. It’s a sad thing. It’s the saddest story. It wrenches my heart. But I feel the innocent, the simple, the seekers - the seekers have been the greatest victims. They have been, for money, for vindictiveness, and also, there are satanic forces that have come up. They are trying also to exploit. They have come, in their complete force, in their full regiment, they are up here. It’s hard to understand for you people how you are gradually dragged into their clutches and into their jaws and they’re about to just clutch you.

But you must know that God did not create this creation to be destroyed. He did not create you to be destroyed. There’s nothing more powerful than God Himself. And it is going to work out and you all are going to get it. I have no doubts about it. I have no doubts. Maybe, some of you may not get it today, possibly. But you can’t say that you will not get it tomorrow. You will and you all should have it because you are seekers.