Conversation with Sahaja Yogis on Sahaj treatments, Problems of Sahaja Yoga, Bordi, India, 24 January 1981

Mr. Chavan: Of a certain other individual or the individual who has been caught, what to do? So, he is advised in the matter like this, first you put your own attention in your own Sahasrara, this is the first thing you have to do. Then while chanting the mantra, put the attention on the chakra of the person to whom you are giving treatment. And also, your attention should be simultaneously on your own chakra. Then while chanting the mantra you can give a flow of vibration or you can go on giving bandhana to that chakra. Now by chanting mantra only for a time, may not release the chakra. So you have to repeat the chantings, as you go on increasing the chanting, say 7 times, 10 times, 21 times, like that, and you find simultaneously when your attention is there, you find that the chakra is getting relieved, it is getting opened and the Kundalini is making its movement in a proper manner. So, that’s how you have to relieve a chakra while chanting the mantra with the help of mantra.

Now, there was another question from Mr. Pitkar. He asked that a number of Sahaja Yogis who find themselves stuck at certain chakra and they feel they don’t know how to go ahead, what they should do? He says, we want to have certain tips by which we can make quicker progress without getting constricted at that point.

Sahaja Yogi: Mataji expressed her desire that she wants to participate in our brain trust programme today. And She has specifically asked me to convey this message to you, that you should ask me questions for which you have got any particular problem. She has expressed her happiness and pleasure at the way we are conducting, I have told her that we are conducting the brain trust programme as was desired by You. She expressed her joy that ‘all right, continue you have got my full blessings’. I will request everybody that as soon as She comes only the garlanding on behalf of the Shibir has been already done. Let Her be seated and we will continue the programme as we have continued up till now. Only when in difficulty Mataji will participate when and whenever She wants it being picked.

[Same explained in Marathi.]

[Shri Mataji is welcomed.]

Mr. Chavan: So, I was just translating the question that was put forward by Mr. Pitkar. I will again repeat it. He wanted to know, he expressed that there are a number of Sahaja Yogis who find it difficult to take their Kundalini above certain chakras, say Vishuddhi or Agnya. Frequently they get caught at these chakras and he wants to have certain tips on how to progress in Sahaja Yoga. How to bring Kundalini or stabilise the Kundalini in Sahasrara. So, I think for me, I have talked to you on a few occasions about my own experience with this and I have told you that, it is very much necessary first to put your attention to yourself. This is the first thing you have to do. If you want to make progress, you have to give attention to yourself. Don’t think about anybody, think only about Mother and yourself. That’s all. If you put your attention to say your brother, your friend, your sister. But you are actually doing this, you are sitting before the photograph of Mother that is actually Mother. You are saying that, “Mother, I am walking towards you and at the same time you are telling your mother that see my sister, she is not feeling well you look after her”. You are chanting one thing with your mouth and your attention is towards your sister and not towards yourself and towards your Mother. So, your progress is arrested. That’s the principle reason why people get obstructed. This is one thing.

One more point I told you and that is regarding the habit of forgiving all those who have offended you knowingly or unknowingly and also apologising for any offending that you might have done to others. And that you have to do from the heart of your heart. So, when you sit for meditation, you have to first forgive others and then ask for apologies. But after forgiving you ask a question, put a question to yourself, have you really forgiven? And within seconds you will come to know that you have not really forgiven. It’s very difficult, it is a subtle thing that you have to practice within yourself. And after doing this, what you are doing actually you are trying to help yourself, your mind, your attention, your awareness resolve, settle in a proper order. And then there is absolutely no difficulty, Kundalini straight comes in Sahasrara and it descends down and there is continuous cool flow of vibrations from all over body, why only hands? So that is how it is to be done. And I don’t think there is any other short cut for this, that is to be practiced within, not from outside. Thank you!

[Same explained in Marathi.]

Shri Mataji: Can I ask a question to Mr. Chavan now? [In Marathi) The question is like this, I am asking Mr. Chavan, he said you must forgive everyone. Now supposing somebody abuses your Mataji, says horrible things about Her and see sort of infuriates you, then what to do? How to overcome that?

Mr. Chavan: [In Marathi] Now, I’ll just try to again translate in the reply that I gave was that, I feel that suppose a situation comes across where a certain person is abusing Mother. So, what is our first reaction? If you are stable, I feel you should be immediately able to make out as to whether that person is a knowledgeable person, where he is realised, because a realised soul will never be able to abuse Mother, never be able to talk anything against Mother. That is just impossible, it’s only because he is in avidya [false knowledge], he doesn’t have the knowledge that he is abusing the mother. When he comes to reality, he will not do so. Now, I told that our elder brother Shri Jesus Christ, has shown us the way in this regard. He has said that whenever you come across any such person who abuses God, then you have to tell, you have to pray God that please, please we have to say please Mother, You forgive him. When Mother forgives everything comes in it. I feel it is not necessary to give him punishment. I am nobody to punish him. It is the forgiveness of the Mother itself will act as punishment and reward for that person. Because as soon as She forgives, the person will get realised and he will get everything. There is no other good punishment. Thank you!

Shri Mataji: It’s very well said. But it’s a very subtle point you see because God has given us also temper and anger as well as forgiveness. Both qualities are within us. And he has not given us temper for something that is useless, as even temper is necessary. Once you are realised, once you are a realised soul, your temper is also dynamic, it is needed. When somebody says something against God and against your Mother, if he is a realized soul or if he is not a realised soul is a very important point, no doubt. Supposing he is not a realised soul then the best thing is to pity such a man and say that “Oh God forgive, because they do not know what they are doing”. But say even Christ, supposing something had happened to the Mother of Christ, now how he would have reacted? Then he would have come up as her son and he would have taken the cross in his hands and hit all the people there. So, when somebody abuses who is a realised soul, there are many realised souls, whom I have given realization, who have come up very well but who fall out, who try to abuse and try to say bad things. Now at that time, it’s the whole collectivity is challenged, the whole collectivity, the whole collective being is challenged when he says something like that. He is a part and parcel of your being. Think if in your finger you have some pain, what do you do? You rub it off.

When a person who is a realised soul, if he tries to be funny or if he tries to abuse anything that is divine, you have to get into a temper, that’s a part, but this temper is to be diverted into Sahaja Yoga system, like you beat him with shoes [shoebeating]. You write his names and burn it. You write his names on the ground and stamp it, you take out your anger on them. Your anger is divine anger, it has a meaning. You are part of the whole Divine. If you are angry, the Divine is angry. But this anger is ‘hithkaari’, is the one that is benevolent, is a benevolent anger. This benevolent anger is necessary because he is the part and parcel of the whole and you go all out.

There are so many ways by which you really punish in a symbolic way. But that punishment brings him out of his negativity. But for people who are not realised also, these things come up. When negativity is very powerful and wants to take a challenge with the positivity  supposing there’s a negative person and he wants to disturb say our work, at that time you will be amazed that those who will be negative will start supporting the person. Immediately, you can pick them out and say that these are negative. And those who are positive will be in anger. They’ll keep quiet, some of them will be boiling and some of them might get up and say, “You get out from here”. That we have to do, that challenge we have to take up and say to people. That is only possible when you have full discretion how to use your anger.

You have to say it out. It is necessary because if you allow these negativities to be there, they will get hold of people who are sitting on the fences who are half-baked, at that time it is necessary to show your strength, not to get lost in your temper. But to stand up to say, “You get out from here, don’t know what you are doing”. That is very important, because whatever, you see, say, is a mantra, is a dynamite that will change the whole atmosphere. The negativity will run away, but if you say that, “All right, let it happen”. It will have a bad effect.

Christ allowed them to torture him, but not his Mother nor God. He took a hunter in his hand when people were selling in the market. So, he has a double side also. And in you also there is Kalki. And you, I have awakened Kalki in you. So, you are also Kalki. But you must reach a certain maturity, then only you can do it. Sometimes it is very important, but the way you do it, with what dignity you do it is very important. But one has to learn that also: you have to learn how to say it with sternness and with strength that you shut up now. You are not to say a word, and only saying this will make all the negativities run away. At a point, one has to say, that’s what I feel that when you grow in this atmosphere here, let you find yourself which is also very, very strong as well as forgiving.

You know that your Mother’s nature is Atisoumya, Atiroudrya; She lives in two extremes. She can be extremely gentle, and she can be terrific. And these two qualities you should also imbibe, but it should never be directed against your own brothers and sisters, you don’t direct all destructive forces. But against the negativity, because the time has come for us to fight. The time has started now for us to fight these negative forces and for that we all must take up strength within, you see compromising with them and all that is not going to help us. So, the strength must be there, a dignity and with all understanding and discretion you have to tell.

But I have seen mostly negative people will stand up and say, “You shut up, you go away”. So, the positivity should reach that stage where you are matured and when you just say “stand up and shut up”, it means something. That’s a part one has to play. One has to accept we are not going to run away from our parts and some time, as I said, you have to take swords in your hand. So, this is a very courageous role full of valour. It does not mean that we are cowards, or we are weak people. We are very strong, extremely powerful people and you have tremendous power.

But you have the greatest power is that of forgiveness, but behind that forgiveness, there is no weakness. What is the forgiveness of a weak person? He has to forgive in any case. But the strength of a Sahaja Yogi can forgive. So, if somebody says something against the divinity itself, you have to stand up in a way, in a dignified way. And use your discretion and if necessary, you have to tell them that “you are in for trouble”. This much I can say. Because this is also an important part where, step by step, as you are growing, you will be amazed that as you are flowers, you are also the thorns that have to protect the flower within. We have both roles and we are not to avoid anything that is within us, that is our part.

But the only thing is the channelising, this is very important and this subtle point we must understand. Mr. Chavan is a very, very competent man and he knows how to handle situations and things. But to him also and to everyone, I am telling, if you find anybody, any Sahaja Yogi who is deviating from the path of Sahaja Yoga, you have to tell him, straight on the face that, “This is wrong. This you should not do”. And you should support a man who says that, it’s important. Because all of us must join hands together to find out the weaknesses that we have and how to get rid of them. It’s very important.

Because unless and until we take a strong attitude towards ourselves and towards our whole collectivity, you don’t know there is such a tremendous force collected against divinity that we may give in. So, let us build up ourselves also with courage and with the full idea of our powers of divinity that we have within ourselves. May God bless you, it’s a very good point that came up, I am very happy. Mr. Chavan is a very good leader, a nice man and compromising and a very powerful person. He comes from a community which is known for its valour and so he is so strong because, he has built up himself like that and such a person will have patience and everything he can have, but to a point, to a point. Then you have to come out and tell off people, Thank you!

[Shri Mataji explaining the same in Marathi]

Mr. Modi: [Ask a question in Marathi]

Shri Mataji: This is a primordial question. He is asking why it is crossed here, see at the Agnya chakra, why it is crossed? What is the need to cross it at this point? You could have had it straight you see, so there is no problem of crossing. So, I said that this I have done so I better answer because nobody will be able to answer this question. [Marathi]First I will tell in English.

You see, the Agnya Chakra is placed in charge of both the things, is one is for Mana (superego) and also for ego. Now, how do you control these two things? They are to be placed at one point, how do you get a point out of two things? Unless and until you cross them, it is simple mathematics; you have to cross them at a point where you fix up one centre. And this one centre should be able to control both the things.

Now you might say, why not have two centres? Because see, they are so interdependent. If you raise ego your superego goes down. If you raise your superego, the ego goes down. So, they are so interconnected that it has to be one point by which you can control both of them and put them in the balance. Now, another problem is that if it is crossed, you see we are not stopped by that. The basic problem is that how to control both these things, and that’s why it is placed here but you must know that this crossing doesn’t stop your movement of the Kundalini. Because Kundalini rises in the centre not on the sides. When these two are crossing, the centre in between here is inside the thing.

Say, for example, there is a crossing between the two bores [unclear] and both the bores [unclear] become open like this, like this, so it can always open, no problem. But the communication is there, but this opens out properly, but why this is closed is the point. It is closed because of the extremes of one another. This is closed because this one is more or this one is more. Now, if you can somehow reduce the pressure and bring them into a balanced way then this opens out. Now, how do you do it, very simple, that supposing your ego is more, what do you do? Left side to right side, right you do seven times. And now see for yourself raising your Kundalini if Agnya opens or not? Supposing your superego is more, you can feel it. Then you raise your right to your left down, right? Now you balance it and so that the aperture opens out. When it is in balance, it opens out automatically. That’s why it is crossed, otherwise you cannot control it. [Shri Mataji explaining in Marathi]

This is opened like this. When it is in balance it opens like this. When it is in imbalance it goes like this or like that. Both the time it closes down. So only by closing it down, you will know, which side it is, otherwise you would not know. There are so many ways by which you can open it also, you know that. If it is the superego, you know which mantras to be said. If it is ego you know what to say? How to raise it? How to get rid of your ego? How to get rid of your superego.[In Marathi]

Yes. Come here, come here.

Sahaja Yogi: My question is when we are just beginning to be in Sahaja Yoga and we are just beginning to cleansing ourselves, I am very, I don’t really know how I have to behave myself.

Shri Mataji: Behave?

Sahaja Yogi: to behave myself, means how I have to act when I don’t know.So for example when I am, do I have to work on people already and for this problem, I can feel that I can catch really easily negativity from people, even when I do bandhan and all the advice. And that’s all.

Sahaja Yogi: Whom you want to ask this question?

Sahaja Yogi: Warren.

[Shri Mataji explaining the question in Marathi]

Warren: If I follow the question correctly, he is wanting to know how we deal with a person when we are giving awakening and self-realisation, particularly as it relates to problems of we younger Sahaja Yogis who are prone to catch, prone to maybe get a little caught up from these problems. Am I correct Mother, is this the question?

Shri Mataji: Yes, it is.

Warren: So, what we have found in Australia and I can only speak from my own experience, is that first, we pray to the Mother that we will have the strength to be the transmitter of these divine vibrations and the way we do this is as you know to first of all put bandhan around ourself, to protect ourself and bandhan around the other person. This is simple, we know this. And then of course to put our attention on Sahasrara. So that our Chitta is correct and then ask of the unconscious where that person is catching by using the very simple device which Mother has given us of asking and then our own Kundalini comes to that chakra within our own being and then we put a bandhan to that chakra and in so doing we are putting ourself in collectivity. And by collectivity, we are able to remove the blockage or the badha or whatever the problem is.

But of course, this depends upon how strong the Kundalini is in the person who is giving, how strong the Kundalini is in the person who is working on that person, it depends upon how much the antaryoga is working, how much the inner yoga is working within that person, how strong the desire from Mooladhara is working, how much it is reflected on Sahasrara, how far are we growing as Sahaja Yogis? And so we will find that every case is different, but one thing is for sure that as you grow, as you surrender to the Mother, as your attention seats itself on Sahasrara,

One thing is absolutely certain that you will catch less and less and less as the time goes by and your confidence will grow. And as your confidence grows, the seat of the spirit at Sahastarar will become more permanent. The Ganesha shakti will grow, Kundalini will rise with greater force, the tendency to catch will diminish and all of these things which we all have experienced. Every one of us has experienced these very things that you speak of Alexander, it is a real problem. But it is a problem which is able to be solved and it is solved by the grace of our Mother, who as time goes by, as She nurtures Her children and as we grow in knowledge, and joy and love. So, to all of these things just happen, they just happen in a Sahaj way.

So, a little patience, a little time and you will find that the confidences displayed by Dhumal, Chavan. Just put your attention on other person and it just happens, that’s all they do. We have to do a little more but with time it does grow. So be patient, learn the little tricks that Mother has taught us, do the things that we know we should do and very soon if you keep your attention here and you surrender to the Mother, it all works out. This is what we keep saying to people in Australia, it will all work out but it is rather remarkable in every case this place became almost one with which was hackney. But in an incredible way it has worked out. Thank you!

Shri Mataji: It’s a very simple thing which is sort of still people are not knowing one thing for definite that you do not catch from anyone when you give realisation to anyone. It’s a myth. It’s just a myth. You feel you are catching from another person, actually it is you who is the one who is showing the catches. It is you who has the weaknesses. You will never catch from anybody else because it is given in purity. You know even the name of your Mother means immaculate and it’s an immaculate awakening you give to the other person. The difference is that because a western mind thinks about it too much, that’s why they catch. You just go on giving realisation, just you will never catch, you cannot catch that’s my guarantee to you. But you catch only because when you are giving realisation you are thinking about it. You do not do it in thoughtless awareness. You should do it in thoughtless awareness.

This is not your brother, this is not your sister, this is no one, you are not interested. When you get interested in a person like she is your sister, he is brother, he must get it, must happen to your mother, must happen to your father, you are interested in people. Must happen to this one or that one, finished. Because they are part and parcel of you and their weaknesses show in you. But if you are not interested and involved into a person, you will never catch. No question. It’s so beautiful, you just raise your hands. But because you think about it all the time.

See take a question of Mr. X, who is thinking he has problems. You have no problems at all, it’s a myth, it’s a myth. All your problems are nothing but myths, do you know that? These are all myths and you have to go beyond it. This is what Kundalini is doing is taking you out of all your myths. You have no problems. It’s just that sometimes the superego has come up, sometimes ego has come up. Push that down, finished. You are beyond. You have gone beyond it. Now when you catch, you see you are thinking,oh you have this problem, this has happened to you. This is your past problem, future problems. This problem or that problem. You have no problems. First of all, know within yourself you have no problems.

Now you have become lights, you have to solve the problem of others. You have no problems at all. Now raising the Kundalini, nobody should catch. There is no need to give even bandhan I would say. But, supposing you think you have to give bandhan, don’t show your weaknesses, see somebody is sitting before you, you show him weaknesses. There is nothing to be afraid of, the fear, the little bit of fear within you will catch. It is lacking [unclear] within you which catches. Just go ahead with it, but it doesn’t also mean that you have with your ego. Some people have an ego, oh, how can I not give him realisation? That also is an attachment. All right, we tried, it doesn’t work out get out, finished. This is the other side of it, you see I must give realisation to my mother, I must give realisation to my father. First attachment is like that, why? Who are they to you? Who are your brothers and sisters? Just forget it. You are people who are seekers. You are a category, they are not that category, if they were, they would have come to you. Go and seek outside on the streets, go and find out the seekers.

I don’t give it to My children, I don’t give it to anyone, you know that. I am not interested. All right, I have relationships, finished. But I am not bothered as far as their realisation is concerned. Those who deserve, those who are of the category you give them Realisation. But you will catch hold of a person who is a very dear and near according to you, then you give realisation to them and that dear and near comes back like a Scorpion and it catches you. Then you say I am caught up. No, you don’t give realisation to anybody who is known to you, finished. Interested in your child, in your wife, in your mother, in your brother, they are not seekers. They have nothing to do with you. Just forget them. Give realisation to seekers, and not to people who are not seekers. Then you will not have any problems.

Then ego problem comes up when the seekers who are not seekers you try to give them realisation, you will say, “Oh God, the Kundalini doesn’t rise”. Oh, drop, drop their back, do this, beat them, raise it, then you catch. It is ego, you are catching on your ego and when you get frightened of somebody, you see a person whom you give realisation, suddenly you find that person shaking too much and then say let it be, I have nothing to do with you. I cannot give you realisation, finished. You better sit before Mother’s photograph; you see if you can get realisation from Her.

There are people, I have seen, they said, “We will not take Mother’s photograph, but you give us realisation”. You should say, “If you don’t want to take Mother’s photograph, we have nothing to do with you. Who are you? We don’t know you”. You work on Mother’s photograph first of all. Let them develop that dedication for your Mother. Why should you give them realisation? How am I related to them? How am I obliged to them? I am obliged to you, not to them.

So, do not force things on people, just give realisation to people who are seekers, who are seeking, who have respect for your Mother. You see you will never catch. Because if you are forcing, you are forcing because of your ego. If you are running away it is because of your superego and you catch on these two things. But you are just doing it because you are light, just throwing light, who can catch? Can this light catch any darkness because it is there, because there is darkness around, will it? When this little light cannot do it, then how can you the ones who are given the Ganesha power by your Mother, how can you catch? You are Ganeshas, do you know that? You are very powerful.

The only thing is, you shouldn’t have weaknesses for others. It is only your weakness that catches, never the weakness of another person. Nobody can catch you. I have not made movies here, just dainty darlings, No. you raise your hands and you will see that they. But don’t run after useless people, third raters, there are, there must be many people who are real seekers, work out with them, alright?

Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: What, you catch between Sahaja Yogis also? What did you say?

Sahaja Yogi: No, No. [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: But one thing, you have no problem. You see if any Sahaja Yogi comes with his problem to you, you tell him you have no problem. Just tell them, you see this is a style which western people have. They all have problems for nothing at all. Les Miserables! This is all due to thinking. You have no problems. What problems do you have? You have to solve the problems of the whole world, still you are sitting with your problems? You are the swimmers. The swimmers don’t have problems, you have to save people who are getting drowned. Now the swimmers are saying we have problems, how to save? It’s a question like that? You have no problems; you have no problems. Just forget it, you are put above problems, beyond. Believe me, believe me, believe me. All right, all right. Keep to that, all right.

Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: If he wants you, if he wants you to help him. You should. Actually, most of the Sahaja Yogis suffer from over vibrations. Yes, you see always if a Sahaja Yogi says this is paining, you just catch hold of his hand and put it down like that and he will be all right, just like that. They all suffer from over vibrations, because you don’t give it to others. Give it, please give it to everyone. I don’t know, you suffer from that. Any pain you have anywhere, you ask somebody to put your hand there and take it out, finished. You, most of you suffer from over vibrations. I haven’t seen anybody suffering from less vibrations. I have yet to come across one.

You have so much vibrations that you are not aware of it. One of you can give realisation to 10,000 people. Even in Paris. All right? All right, so now stand up for that and do it, do it. You have to do it. [In Marathi] This is the answer. All right, Warren, correct? You never catch. It is only you think, you never catch. You take it from Me. You have given realisation to so many people. Where are the catches? you are so much better. And if you don’t get vibrations, then you will catch. Because you will have vibrations attacked here, attacked here and you will say “Oh God I cannot do it.” You don’t try to give vibrations to people who are negative people. Just don’t bother your head, you are not to do it. See because you insist, so your ego catches, and you think you are caught up. No, it is your ego, you know this thoroughly, this is a useless person, why waste your energy? All right? You must be having some sensible people around, isn’t it?

[Shri Mataji explaining in Marathi.]

Sahaja Yogi: Mr. Phaldankar has raised a question that people who do black magic or some sort of thing like that, what is the remedy in Sahaja Yoga for that? And Mr. Dhumal will reply that question in Marathi and afterwards Professor Chavan will say in English.

[Mr. Dhumalanswering in Marathi.]

Mr. Chavan: [Translating the answer in English] Now when we come across any person or who comes to you to seek help to get relief from effects of black magic, what one should do? That was the question. And the reply furnished was, now as far as possible, you first see there are any person in that family is practicing Sahaja Yoga. If the person is practicing Sahaja Yoga then it is all right, you may think of extending your help otherwise it is best to keep aloof from such persons.

Now when you want to extend help what are we to do? For the persons who practice black magic, they always first try to put bandhanas or try to tie up the deities which are being prayed by that person. So, our first job is to relieve that bandhana or that tying on the deity that is being worshipped by the person. Now how to do this? This can be done by our method of integration, so the deity which is being prayed, being worshipped by that person has to be put, the name of the deity has to be put in that mantra and then in the regular fashion we can just integrate that name with that of the Divine Mother and thus by doing this, that particular deity, it gets that gets first relieved, then you have to work on the person.

So, the other thing is, now the treated person that is this is regarding that. Now we come to the person concerned, if that person is to be given treatment, first is that earthen pot treatment, matka treatment (putting seven lemons and seven green chillies in it), you know the way the treatment is given. So, this is the best treatment.

The second treatment is burning chillies (red chillies) along with little salt and mustard seeds. So, these three things put together, they are burnt in that house. Now, you will find, if they are burnt generally you will have coughing in the house. But if the black magic is operating in that house you will find that there is no coughing, you can breathe normally in that house. So, that is the effect of black magic. So, once that chillies and mustard seeds and little salt put together when they are burnt for a while, say 3-4 chillies that will suffice. Every day that treatment can be given for 3-4 days or 5 days depending on the intensity. As the intensity decreases you can just stop it.

Then the Kumkum, you have to always ask the person to apply the Kumkum on the forehead and on the Sahasrara. Then you can also ask, one thing is very important, the person concerned, you have to ask that person to completely surrender to the Mother. This is again one point I forgot and this you have to ask him to do this first. Unless he surrenders completely this won’t happen. This is the most important thing. Because generally people call us or invite us for helping them out of this situation, but when we go they are not prepared to accept this first. And then they simultaneously ask that they should get relieved. Now two things cannot operate at a time. So, first the person concerned should completely surrender and then only you can extend the help. Thank you!

Shri Mataji: In addition to this, I mean there are so many other things as you know is to ask the person to beat with the chappals [shoebeating], and things like that, the relations can beat him with chappals or all these things as you know.How to burn the name of the person and all these things that you know about, how to get rid of these horrible negativities of the person which you can all work it out. It’s not difficult. But better thing these things are not done by relations but other Sahaja Yogis to help them that would be better. So, this all you know. [Shri Mataji explaining in Marathi.]

Sahaja Yogi: I would like to ask this question to the members of the panel. It has been my observation during the last threeyears that in the midst of our dear Mataji in Bombay or in Pune or during her programmes, we draw hundreds of people towards Sahaja Yoga in the various halls where programmes are held. But after our Mother’s departure we are not able to hold on even to the fifth of the gathering. I would like the members to analyse this and to tell me as to what should be done by us whether in Bombay, Pune, Rahuri, Delhi, in Paris or in England anywhere or even in Australia where the Mother would be shortly going. And I would also request our dear Mother to give us some wisdom on this occasion and some guidelines also.

Sahaja Yogi: [In Marathi]

Shri Mataji: A question was asked that why is it that when  Mother is there we get thousands and thousands of people and when She goes away then there hardly any people coming to the programme and very few people stick on and what is the reason? And what should we do about it? Now, Dhumal has told something which also I may repeat but I will tell you something more practical, much more practical that will work out. He has said it’s true that it is like a farming. You see when the farming, in the farming you have to look after the small little sprouts and then you try to make them grow into trees and you have to really bother about them and find out how they are growing and all that is very important and which is true what he says is true but how you can achieve it? Which is very simple as I will tell you.

First of all, when we have any programme say in the city or in a village, we all people who are Sahaja Yogis should form really a very strong intricate and a very dedicated group, absolutely and like CIDs you can call, or like very, very alert people. And we should sit down, Mataji is working out and your attention should be not to take vibrations or anything but sit around the people and be on the watch out who gets realisation and who gets it. You divide the whole group that comes in, in such a way that you get hold of some people, some people, some people here. Like say there are 25 Sahaja Yogis and say there are 500 people. Now out of 500 at least if not at least 300 will get realisation. Now these 25 people should suddenly sort of surround those people who are around and take their addresses everything.