"Kundalini must pierce the Sahasrara". Delhi, India. 14 March 1979.

Shri Mataji: That is it. Whatever you believe into, you just turn it down that time. That’s all! Because I am being the Ego and the Mahat-Ahamkara. Just say that and you will get the vibrations. Say that, "You are the Mahat-Ahamkara" and you will get the vibrations. I am! No doubt. I don’t say that but I am.

Sahaja Yogi: Lalita Sahastranama...(unclear)

Shri Mataji: See, from where do you get your 'ahamkara' [ego]? I am the one who does. So, I am Ahamkara. But the difference between you and me is only this that you don’t do anything and you think you are doing and here I am doing everything and I am not bothered. [Yogis laughing and clapping.]

Someone from the crowd: As it is said in the Gita, Mother! Krishna says, "I am everything."

Shri Mataji: Yes, that is true. Very True. So, let’s out. Who else?

Sahaja Yogis: (Unclear.) Alex!

Shri Mataji: Alex. Yes, I remember (while laughing Mother says so). All right!

And like that you see, people I have seen, even the complete flow of light, moving up like that, but they have not felt the realization. They saw it coming up to the Agnya and then the whole thing dropped back. They saw it. So, they saw the Kundalini how it was helping. The Adi kundalini was helping, your Kundalini. They saw it. Even this light rising, is because your attention is still outside, you see, so you go on, that flickering of the eye starts.

Then I tell you to fix up your eyes to my vision, you fix it up to my figure and my face. What happens is the Chaitanya pushes you through your eyes into the centre, you see, so that you see me as I am. But the eyes are controlled by the Chaitanya and the attention that is inside, you see, is pushed inside that, what you call that aperture in the Agnya Chakra. So, I always say that if you are flickering your eyes, please pay attention to me so that the Chaitanya works through your eyes and fixes your attention to pass through. Because the light starts spreading on all the sides, and you see that light and the eyes go on like that. You cannot close your eyes. It is that is the reason for that.

Then the second thing you said that you are facing the, your Sahasrara was on the tip, there is one of the reasons for Nirvichara [thoughtless state], is there. But also, Nirvichara [thoughtless] is a way to express the blessings of your Mother. When She wants to bless you. See you wrote the letter, She was happy. Just to bless you, you became Nirvichara. It’s the blessing. That’s how you, that’s the grace, you see. It comes to you from your Mother that you become Nirvichara. That one has to reve you. If you do the things that I tell you I feel, I bless you very much. Because they are for your good, for your kalyana [benevolence], for your mangal [auspiciousness] and that’s why you are blessed and that blessing you feel as Nirvichara Because I am Nirvichara myself.

That is a mess up Kundalini. You see, this is the queries. It is not. This is what happens to so many of you. That is all the Ida and Pingala problems. This is Ida, Pingala.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, I see.

Shri Mataji: Sympathetic. That looks out and it looks like Kundalini. But you don’t get any vibrations in the hands. It looks even some people get a big hole, to get out of it. Especially this Muktananda [false guru], he does like that and you get a feeling that, "Oh!" You should never feel the Kundalini rising, that like an explosion, an example like that.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, I see.

Shri Mataji: (Unclear: Make all half.) This kind of 'realization' is no good. Normally Realisation is good. This kind of experience many people get. Like 'Hare Krishna' also had like that and so many people get that feeling like that you see, that something goes up suddenly it shoots off and you feel exploded and opened out and all that. But that is not the Kundalini. It is the sympathetic nervous system which is very much in strain.

They have strain. In that expression of that strain what happens that the whole thing the energy of the complete sympathetic, whatever they have, parasympathetic, is sucked into the sympathetic because sympathetic is too much activated, you see. Then what happens is the parasympathetic system has your stored up energy, whatever it is, it just sucks in all that. And when it is sucked in then suddenly the wave from the pelvic plexus down below starts because you see these all the energies are released to the sympathetic. Because the sympathetic is so exhausted, that whatever is the energy left in the chakras, is released.

Once it is released, all that released energy makes you feel that the energy is rising within you because it is rising through Ida and Pingala. Now this is the energy which is just sucked into Ida and Pingala, it rises up and you can feel it going up and coming down and all that. But the after effects of these, each one of these, that such a person, of course in these experiences people feel sometimes horrible things also, that they feel that there is heat liberation, sometimes they feel some sort of a scorpion bites going on, or some snakes coming up and all kinds of things can happen in these. Can be very horrifying also these ones and could be very simple also.

But when this happens after effects is like that, that you become arbitrary. You see, all sort of this drug system started after that, because once you are released from that self-control in between you can take to anything like this. Because you are free now, do whatever you pleased with, you see! And that's how you can take to drugs and things.

And this is what all these gurus are doing. Is to take out the stored energy which is controlling you, suck them out on to the sympathetic. There are so many ways by that they can do it. They can starve you; they can make you work very hard; they can make you tired; they can make you say some mantras, things. I mean they make your sympathetic work so hard that ultimately a stage is reached where your chakras release all the energy that is stored in them and just get out of it, you see. So, all the energy has been sucked in. And a person feels, "Oh!" Suddenly, there is something, suddenly (unclear).

But in these circumstances, you can, may have a big hollow in the head like that and is like a mad person has, see here a big hollow. And the whole thing is sucked in and you get a hollow there like that. So many people get the thing. That is very different. But because all that energy that was inside is sucked in, so, it has become like a big hollow inside, you see, like a mad person has too the same thing. So, this is the way people confuse between Kundalini awakening and the exhaustion of the sympathetic.

Normally in the Kundalini awakening through Sahaja Yoga, you do not feel anything. It just goes up and works out. But sometimes if there is, after realization if there is an obstruction due to certain combinations, it may be the obstruction may go out like that. But there is a tremendous difference between the two. In that first you have release in the hands of the vibrations there.

But with the first one you do not get; on the contrary you get heated up. And you start avoiding yourself, escaping from yourself. And this starts and that’s how you get into these drugs. This is very much played by these gurus. That’s what they do to you. They exhaust you completely so that you cannot withstand reality and the present moment. So, you try to get into something and once you try to escaping; you see just the whole release of these stores and parasympathetic takes place and Deities are broken and you are broken. You become arbitrary. It’s a cancerous sort of the thing. That's not Kundalini awakening but we would say it is more sympathetic system which comes into play. And the movement of parasympathetic is - what you call that, pumping – a movement of the pumping of the energy starts. You get start, put it on all the thing. And the whole thing is sucked in because of the exhaustion.

So, one should not confuse between the two. Because after realization you cannot take to drugs easily, it’s very difficult. You have to really force yourself to take to drugs.

Yogi: Mother, (unclear).

Shri Mataji: It’s a hypertension. You develop hypertension. You become very agitated. You start dancing, jumping, doing all kinds of things. You see, these things can happen that you can start dancing, jumping, shouting, doing all kinds of things. Getting into licentiousness, perverseness, because that’s how you are let loose. You see, the control on your being of the wisdom is lost. Then you just get into it. You don’t feel the pinch of the, you can call your conscious. The pinch of the conscious is no more. You just go arbitrary. You just shoot off. It can happen to people even without feeling it. Even without feeling this, some people can get into that kind of attitude. That’s how they become alcoholic. And they become all these things where they have no control.

Now, Jay? Did you speak something?

(Pause.)

Eventually, he was absolutely on death bed. Because he got cirrhosis of liver. And he was going to die. See, he had left Sahaja Yoga. He wanted to do it on his own and all that and he just lost it. Poor thing, within three months he started showing disease and he was so bad now, I had brought him home. My husband had gone abroad. And he came back and said, "What is this? You have got a dead person in the house? They are going to prosecute us, we are all going to be in jail, he is going to die." Next moment the way he was, there I just can’t look at him. He was very angry. I said, "Where can I send him? After all he is so sick. It would be very inhumane to send him anywhere out." He said, "Alright! Tomorrow, you arrange something and send him away." But next day, when my husband got up from his bed, he saw this gentleman walking about. He was so surprised and "Oh God, can you see the fellow is out? Out of his bed. (Laughter.) I just can’t believe my eyes." And then believe me, within seven days he was completely cured.

Then Jay's told me that, "Mother, some of us are so egotistical that we have to go to that limit to know you and to come to you. It’s not possible for some people to give up their ego and behave in such a manner, so better allow them to go to that position and then come back." I said, "For a Mother it’s difficult. She will try to tell them again and again, that, "No no, you try to get alright."

See, that’s what he told me. But this is very true. What I found with the Western people that they are very egotistical in the sense that they don’t mind killing themselves, you see. The ego is so self-destroying that they know they are destroying themselves but just to satisfy their ego they’ll go on destroying themselves. And they reach such a funny point that you just can’t understand how there is that they are so foolish about it.

Then he started respecting himself and then he went to his mother. He said, "I feel tremendous love for my mother" whom he had left for years. He never bothered about her. Then he went down. Now he is in Australia and he is looking after his mother and he is coming back with her and truly she is well and he's talking with her sweeter. So, this is what the thing is of wisdom.

(Unclear: Gaas-?) who was the leader of all the hippies of London and who was a very clever boy. And he was a physics professor. So you can imagine what can happen to an egotistical person, how he can lose his complete wisdom.

So that's done.

(Pause.)

Because in the first lot that I had from Bharitya Vidya Bhawan, there were about three hundred people out of which at least two hundred and seventy-five people were Indians. And they all were suffering from some disease or another. I got such a fright. I was so angry with all of them. I said, "None of you are healthy" because, you see, some were suffering from paralysis and some were suffering from gout and all kinds of problems they had.

And in that lot, I found "Kohli" sitting in front of me and absolutely cool, very, very cool, so much that he was like a frozen, you can say, dough, a frozen dough. And I cleansed him. I said, "Now this is too much." But because of his heart catching you see, when your heart is caught up, you can feel that kind of coolness. Because it depresses your heart more and you get that coolness. So, I called him "Kholi".

And Kholi is a one doctor whom I had heard about him, who is in Houston where they are operating small children. I had taken my grandchild there. So, I met him and he looked very much like a man "Kholi" but he is a very tall fellow and very kindly person. And when I saw him, combined these two each other, he was so cool and so much speed like that I said Dr. "Kholi", that I called him "Kholi". And that’s all. And then whenever he talked to me, he says, "Mother you remember me? I am Kholi speaking." He says, "I am Kholi forever." (Laughter.)

Now come along, his name is Anthony. What’s the surname? (Unclear.) He is from Cyprus. You see, very near Greece from where Alexander the Great came to ascend. Now comes Kholi the Great! (Cheers, laughter and claps.)