Public Program at United Nations Meeting, New York (USA). 4 October 1993.

I bow to all the seekers of truth. At the very outset, we have to know that truth is what it is. We cannot change it. We cannot transform it. We cannot conceptualize it. Truth is to be felt as you can feel hot and cold. Whatever we have had so far through our evolutionary process, at this human awareness, we have known it on our central nervous system. So, we have to know the truth on our central nervous system. Otherwise, it is either emotional idea or a mental idea, which has limitations.

We think of science as if we have achieved a lot. In one area we might say we have, in the sense, we have explored many things about matter. We have knowledge about the outside world quite a lot, but we don't know ourselves at all. We haven't got the knowledge of inner being. So much of science has created such a big civilization around, but it does not know its own roots. This is the reason why today we find that there is no solution for many things which we are facing. We have big organizations; we have conferences, arguments, discussions - everything, at mental level. But the whole thing is not result oriented.

If you see the human problems, we cannot say why are we here. What's the purpose of our life? That's why many people try to find their identity, which I think is a real thing - one has to do is to find your own identity, why are you here on this earth. Science cannot answer this question. Why are we on this earth? What are we doing on this earth? What is the purpose of human life? What is the purpose of evolution? These questions cannot be answered by science.

So then we start looking into religions. The religions that are in a mess, as we have seen today. I mean, if you want to know about religion, say ask say a Muslim about a Jew and ask a Jew about a Muslim and ask a Hindu about a Muslim. Ask anyone of them and they will tell you all the worst things that they know about themselves. Thus, in the idea that one God has created this one earth, one Universe, we have so many religions, they are fighting among themselves, killing each other with the faith that they are fighting in the name of God.

The absurdities of certain beliefs also are to be understood. One of them is the belief that there will be a resurrection time or the Last Judgment. And at that time, people will come out of their graves and they will be all judged. Now, can you believe such a story, I mean at this modern times? What remains inside a grave, is I don't know and all our forefathers, dinosaurs and all of them are going to come back on this earth from their graves and then they are going to be judged. And those who will die in the name of God, so called, will be resurrected. I mean, I was surprised at the Muslim who was fighting some sort of a Jehad. I asked him why do you do it. He said, now, see, if we die now, we will be resurrected. This kind of a funny idea, I don't know from where it has come. Some people have tampered with the scriptures, I am sure about it. And I have tried to bring all nonsensical ideas to people, who, somehow give up all their intelligence, all their logic and believe it.

So when an intelligent man looks at all these things, he becomes an atheist. Even by becoming atheist, one has to know why are you here, what is the purpose of your life, why are you here. What is the goal of your life? Is it just to waste your time or to be here for a short time and finish off, to insure yourself and then die? The worst thing that has happened to human beings, I think is that materialism has taken over. By materialism, we have really become very gross, extremely superficial. And not bothered at all about spiritual life. Those people who did bother, whom I call as seekers, people of special category - were caught up by false gurus and lots of false things. Because, they realized there is a market of such people and such people must be somehow or other captured and used for their own purposes. Only purpose is making money - its marketing.

America, I came in the year 1972. And I was shocked at the spiritual awareness of human beings. They are willing to take anything that was selling in the market. They didn't like Me because they thought that I don't take any money, so there must be some hocus-pocus about it. This is the effect of materialism on their brains. I got so disgusted really with the whole thing. They accepted a fourteen year old guru who put some red liquid in a cannon and blasted fifty thousand in this New York - were his followers and then they said he became a Yankee, married an American lady and settled down. He was wiser than others. Others went on till they were completely exposed and destroyed. But this fellow was wiser - he is somewhere here, I don't know.So, this is how one has to know what to seek. What is the truth? The truth is that you are not this body, this mind, this ego, these conditionings because you say my conditioning, my ego, my body - "my". But who is this "I"? Who owns all these things? So, you are the pure spirit. And the second truth is that there is a all pervading power of divine love, that does all these beautiful things like creating flowers, evolutionary process. Who runs our heart? If you ask the doctors, they will say it's the autonomous nervous system. But who is the auto? If you have an automobile, then there is a driver sitting there. Who is this driver? If you start going only into the question - who am I, then you are a seeker of truth. Why am I here, then you are a seeker of truth. Without the truth, you cannot solve any problem of this world. All the problems of the worlds mostly are caused by human beings I think who are blind and who cannot see the truth. And all these human problems come to you because of your chakras in jeopardy.

We must say our Creator has been a greatest planner. If you see the periodic laws of chemistry, you will see how He has organized all the matter, how He has categorically divided and in the same way, He has planned within us a beautiful system by which we can become one with this all pervading power of divine love. Once you become that, then what they call, you become a saint. Means, you become yourself. So, what do you get? The first thing you get is the self-knowledge. You know about your own centers. You know about what's wrong with you and you don't want to have it. Because you don't like it. Overnight, people have dropped alcoholism, drugs, overnight. I never say "don't do anything" because I know half of you might go away. But it just works that way. Like a snake in your hand and you are in darkness. Supposing you are obstinate, somebody says "See, there is a snake in your hand, in your hand, please leave it." If you are obstinate, you will say "No it's a rope. What's wrong?" That's the mantras these days. Tell something to somebody, they say "What's wrong?" Till the snake bites the person, he will go on holding. And, when a little light comes in him, he will just drop it. That's exactly what happens to you when you become the Self. The light of your spirit shines in your attention. And you see the things in proper light.

Now, whatever I am telling you, you need now believe Me at all, because blindfoldedness has taken us to lots of problems. But whatever I am saying to you, if it works out, and if you get your Realization, and if you feel the all pervading power, then as honest people, you have to believe Me. You have to just keep your mind open like a scientist. Once you start feeling this all pervading power on your finger tips, you have to use it and see for yourself what it has done to you. So, the first thing happens to you is your self knowledge on your finger tips. The inner knowledge, which is very important, because that is the fundamental on which every human being stands, and also, you know the centers of others. You can feel the centers of others because a new dimension comes into your awareness which we call as collective consciousness.

Who is the other? You can feel everybody on your finger tips. And when you grow, you find that, sitting down here, you can feel the vibrations of another person. The vibrations of this all pervading power is like a cool breeze, as described in the Bible - "Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost". And once you master this art, some people don't take much time, at the most, some people take one month, you become a master yourself, you become your own master. You can give realizations to others. And you can solve their problems.

Now this is to be absolutely free, because it is living process of evolution. How much did we pay to Mother Earth for these flowers? The seed was sown in the Mother Earth and it sprouted, because the seed had the built-in quality to sprout and the Mother Earth had the built-in quality also to make it sprout. It's already built-in within us, as already Steven has told you. Is all within you. It looks miraculous. It looks fantastic. But, don't you think these flowers are also very miraculous and fantastic? The way they have come out of one seed. It's all in you, it's your power. It is something so much your own, this force is in your triangular bone and just it rises. Is your own that you achieve your own self. You don't have to get into any kind of an involvement in it, because you become that. It's a question of becoming, it's not lecturing. As you know, My husband has been with the U.N., I have attended so many conferences and so many lectures. And I've known all that rigmarole.

What we have to achieve is a real united world. In reality, not artificially. Now, Sahaja Yoga is working in 55 nations and you find these people extremely loving, extremely compassionate, so joyous, they have entered into the kingdom of God. Last time I was in Russia, when the coup was on. So I asked the Sahaja Yogis, there are in thousands in Russia, "Aren't you worried about this in your country, what's happening?" They said, "Why, Mother, we have entered into the kingdom of God, why should we worry about these Russians?" All this has to happen so easily to all of you and all of you have to have it. But I don't know what makes people shudder from it, from reality, from love of God.

I think today you are very few people, we can have some questions and answers. Would be a good idea, what do you say? And then I'll give you Realization.

Question and Answer session:

Q (Gentleman): Do you know who I am?

Shri Mataji: Myself? About you or about myself? About you? You are the pure spirit. I know you all are. But you don't know. That's the difference. Once you'll know that you are the pure spirit, then the whole thing will be transformed and with this transformation only we are going to change the world, not by lectures and conferences. No. This transformation has to come from within.

Q (Lady): Why does this spirit take different forms and what is the special significance of this spirit taking the human form?

Shri Mataji: Different forms of human spirit is - now, God believes in beauty. And He wants to create every leaf differently to create variety. To create beauty. Otherwise we would be like robots, all of us moving about like military people. It won't be interesting to live with such people, will it be?

Lady: No, my question was a little different. What I was asking is, when spirit takes the human form [NOT CLEAR] from animal form, what is the special significance of spirit when it takes human form?

Shri Mataji: That he has to now become the spirit. Now the last breakthrough is only possible for human beings. That breakthrough is the one you have to achieve. That's why you are a human being. Now you see here, they have shown the brain like that. But actually it is like a pyramid. Only human brain is like that. And because of that, all these things work out. So you have to reach a certain stage of your evolution, from where you have to jump onto that form where you become the spirit.

Q (Lady): Can one ever lose Realization?

Shri Mataji: No, one cannot. You see, actually it's like a connection. Now see, this instrument is connected to the mains. All right? If it is not connected, it has no identity, no meaning. Isn't it? But, supposing it's a loose connection, then it may drop out. So best thing is to make the connection perfect. And which is very easy.

Q (Lady): - Once we achieve Realization, do we go out to give it to others and do others come to us?

Shri Mataji: - No, no you should go all out. Imagine, at this age of mine - 70 years, I am traveling all over the world. You cannot enjoy it alone, so you want to give it others. And then only you enjoy. Giving Realization is the greatest joy.

Q (Lady): Why do we human beings have fear of death?

Shri Mataji: Because you are in ignorance. Suddenly, the lights go off, you will be frightened, you are ignorant. There's nothing like death. It's just transformation from one life to another. After this you are not afraid of anything. Nothing. And you are all the time protected. You can feel it. You are protected. Actually you feel it. It is absolutely miraculous the way things happen and people have written to Me - how they were protected, how they were saved, they could not believe it, because all the angels are with you. But, if I tell you this, you won't believe in these modern things of science, but now many things are also discovered in science like quantum theory. You can't explain it.

Q (Gentleman): Shri Mataji, if someone has had a brain tumor and cist partially removed, will giving that person Realization aggravate their condition or would it help to improve it?

Shri Mataji: Will it get aggravated? It will improve. You see, any disease which is there actually gets cured. And I was recently surprised there was a gentleman with a brain tumor. You must not believe Me but you should see for yourself. And he wrote to Me that Mother, I have got brain tumor, they are saying they cannot locate it, we don't what to do. So they are going to use a new scanning method by which they are going to say there is a brain tumor. I said, you just go to our center, let us see what happens. After some time, a fax came saying that the doctors are saying, you have no brain tumor. Because, this Kundalini which rises, it nourishes your centers. And these centers which look after every function - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual of your being. If they are integrated, if they are nourished, if they are enlightened, how can you suffer? That's how many people have been cured.

I must say, blood cancer has been cured. No doubt, we have so many patients who are living now for six to seven years who were told you are going to die within one month, doctors are honest you see. They tell honest thing. You will die after one month - finished. And they are still living. Many heart patients, many diseases have been cured. And, even AIDS, I must say has been cured. But the AIDS people are little bit psychologically different. There are two types I have seen, one are very arrogant and they are martyrs - you just can't talk to them. And the second ones are who don't want to live. So we got about five patients in Australia and we treated them. Out of them, two are married - they are all right and two took to the same style of life and they got it back - only the one who has really completely cured is there - he is very healthy, he is the healthiest man we have now in Sahaja Yoga. If we have to carry any heavy luggage, we call him. But their psychology is so funny. I don't know how to deal with them, because they think they are nothing wrong with them, are perfectly all right and then what can you do with such people who think they are all right, how can you cure them?

Q (Gentleman): Why did Peter and Paul alter Christ teachings and why is the Catholic Church against reincarnation? Wasn't Christ resurrection a form of reincarnation?

Shri Mataji: All right, I'll tell you the truth. You know this Mr. Paul, when I saw him in the Bible, I asked My father "Who is this gentleman?", so My father told Me he is a [squatter?]. And he was the man who killed so many Gnostic Christians, early Christians; he also killed a disciple of Christ - Steven. And this Paul says that he saw a cross, I mean it's never that way you see Realization, it's a supra-conscious experience, you will find that very soon. And that he met Christ is all nonsense and then what happened with this man that while doing all these sinful things, he discovered that...he was bureaucrat...it's a good platform for him to jump in - Christianity. Now, what is the best way to handle it? He found out Peter, as the worst disciple of Christ. Christ has said that the devil will take you over, He has said it about Peter and this was the devil and he told him that I will edit all the Bible. And it was he who wrote about Peter because he couldn't write about himself that Christ gave the keys to this Mr. Peter whom the devil was going to take over. That's how the Catholic Church started.

Despite all these things, he wanted to edit Bible and big fight between Mathews and him. Thomas ran away to India and then he wrote his treatise and they were kept in a jar in Egypt about fifty years back, now decoded, called as the library of Hammadi, which is a big book and people have probed into it and found out - it's all Sahaja Yoga. He talks of experience and nothing else. So, John also decided not to write himself, somebody else wrote for him, but lots of things are there, many things there are which are today can be verified, despite all the effort of this Mr. Paul - I don't think he was intelligent enough to manage the rest of it. But whatever he tried was very, very dangerous. One of them was to say that this church is to be formed by Mr. Peter. And despite that, I must say there have been very great good Catholics, this Luciano, another Pope who came, he was really a man who was shocked by the way things were happening and he died. But they say he was murdered. So all these things happening in the Catholic Church today are because they are money oriented and power oriented - they are not spirit oriented at all. That's why they don't want to talk of self Realization. While Christ has said that "You are to be born again. You have to know yourself." He said the same thing. Christ lived actually for four years with those mad people there. And He was crucified. In four years, what can you do? When My husband got a job in England, for four years I was struggling with hippies, very well educated all of them - professors [UNCLEAR WORD] hippies - seven of them for four years, I couldn't break their shells for four years - what could Christ do with all these people? And that's why it has become like that.

Even in Quran, I think Abu Bakkar has taken something from the Bible as far as this resurrection part is concerned. Mohammed Saab did write about resurrection, but this part that you'll all come out of the graves, Mohammed Saab could not have written. And it is also coming from Jews that you'll come out of graves, I just don't know from where they got this idea. They cannot accept the Immaculate Conception which we accept - not only accept, it's a fact. Even Mohammed Saab has said, very clearly, "Respect the chastity of Mary". He has paid much more respect to Christ's mother than Paul. Paul hated women, he hated them. And the way he has said about Christ's mother was "She was a woman and all that" - this hatred for women, putting them down was so much, that's why I think that in the western countries, women are very insecure. Very insecure. Only I have seen in films and things anywhere, only women are made nude, not men, as if they are sanctum [SANCTORUM OR SANCTORIUM?]. And poor women have to show their body, or do this with their body, and sell their body and no sense of chastity they should have, all the time trying to please the lower self of human beings. I mean, in India, even now, despite American influence has come in the city, but despite that, any man looks at a woman, she'll go and slap him - "why are you looking at me?" It's a very different culture we have come into, because of this kind of a disrespect for women - and I think it's very primitive.

Like in England, a country which is supposed to be very developed, they have been fighting if a woman would be a priest or not. Imagine. In India, a woman is the power, the Shakti. She is your mother, she's your sister, she's your daughter. She cannot be your priest. This is the worst that has happened, but not that it was not so that women were not respected at the time of George Washington or all those places. I have read all those books of those times, it was not so bad, but gradually it has come down to this level that women have to sell their body, somehow. It is very surprising that women are not respected. And I would blame Mr. Paul for that. He has never shown any respect for any woman whatsoever.

Now, we are at a point to understand that morality is the basis of religion and morality is the basis of human existence. Last night only I was watching your TV and I was looking at the University program. I was shocked, the filth they were talking. I can't believe it. How your children are going to live in this filthy circumstance? And there was the dean of the faculty of Harvard University who said that homosexuality is not prohibited in Christianity and the priest agreed with it. Poor things, there were about twenty-four, twenty-five very sweet boys standing said "we don't believe in it" and they were saying Lord's Prayer.

So now, in England a [CANNON?] has said that extra marital relationships are to be allowed in Christianity, otherwise we'll not have people in the church. Openly. Because church has to run. These priests are to be paid. And if there are no people, who is going to pay - it's a market. It's in every religion, I'm not saying it's only with Christianity, but at least the Christians have realized all these things. In some religions, they are still fundamentalists. They don't see the bad points. It is something so remarkable that on one side, these are the developed countries. And here, as far as spirituality is concerned, they are so primitive? This materialism has done this harm and one has to be careful. Thank God there is recession, so people are now looking at themselves. Recession has done lot of good in every country. Maybe it's the after effect of so-called democracy, the demonocracy. It is a Divine working out. Like people ask Me why there was such a big earthquake after they worshipped Shri Ganesh? What is Shri Ganesha - is the symbol of innocence, of auspiciousness, of purity, of holiness. I have see in Poona and other places, whenever they have nowadays, somehow we Indians have taken to American lives. When British were there, we were very much more Indian, but now we are having discos in front of Ganesha. They get drunk, wear funny dresses, do funny actions, sing very very vulgar songs in the presence of Shri Ganesha. I saw this and I was saying, they should be careful, what they are doing is a sinful thing. And if Shri Ganesha gets annoyed, this Maharashtra can be destroyed. Imagine this Maharashtra where Shri Ganesha is respected so much, worshipped so much, every household will have Shri Ganesh and that's what they do every year for ten days. So, these things will happen.

Somebody asked Me about Missouri and Mississippi. Why there were floods. Perhaps you may not be knowing because, I am quite an old woman, I know many things. Much more than [US?]. You see, these people living, the white skin, were called as red necks in Missouri Mississippi. They killed indiscriminately many black people, put them in the river. When some crime was done by Englishmen, they would involve somebody who was black. They were called as red necks because they had a red neck here - the Vishuddhi. But I saw them running away from the river with all their red necks this time. In the Bible, it is written such destructions will be there. We have to take to moral life. Immorality cannot pay. But force morality doesn't work out. Once you become a realized soul, then what happens? You become righteous, you become. You cannot do wrong things. You become the source of compassion, love, dynamism, good health, everything. Source of joy. And that's what has not happened to us. Once it happens to us, we just don't do wrong things. We just don't do it. We are not meant for that. Immediately we start seeing what is right and what is wrong.

Q (gentleman): What do you think of the power of the human mind?

Shri Mataji: Is limited. At the most, you can mesmerize people with your power of mind. You know this Satya Sai Baba, so called. I have a tape. He used to mesmerize people and do all these miracles. But it so happened that our great Prime Minister and also our President when enamored by our Home Minister, who comes from the same place as Osmanabad, he was elected from there, he took them down, all these people, great, you know. Because he believed that he is miraculous. Why should God give you gold and diamonds? No logic. So these poor things went there just to please the Home Minister. But with them went four cameras and the cameras starting taking photographs. Now you cannot mesmerize cameras, isn't it? And it's so clearly you see, a man passing the gold necklace to him and he does that and gives it. Clearly. And it all came out in the newspapers. Also, I've got a tape. And many people have this tape now with them. So this is what it is. With the mind you can mesmerize others. You can mesmerize the weak minds.

And, I was told that somebody was making the pendulum move with the mind. What is purpose of moving a pendulum? What you get? Are you here to waste your time moving a pendulum? Is that the value of your life? Another nonsense is that you can fly in the air, about three feet high you can jump. When already we have traffic problem. What is the sense in doing all these things? What has happened to human beings? Why can't they understand that what is the sense? What is the value of these things?

And the man from this TM came to Me one day. He was the head of the Flying Academy in Scotland, suffering from epilepsy, his wife suffering from epilepsy, his director suffering from epilepsy and his daughter also. And then he told Me the whole story, so horrible. How do you get impressed by these things? So what did he tell Me? That he was a diamond merchant. His wife was the grand daughter of a Jew. Lots of money. And they took to this TM and he said "Why don't you go and start this flying academy?" So he started a flying academy. So many have come to Me from TM. And what he did was just to break their bottoms. That's all. They didn't achieve anything - it was all falsehood. He confessed it to Me that his guru told him that you go to America and just say that I came to America without any visa, just in my meditation. And Americans believed it, can you beat that? They believed it that he came with the power of his mind without the visa. It's a fact. If you believe in stupid things, then what should we say? And today that man is bankrupt, has gone back to South Africa, of course, I cured him, his wife was cured, his child was cured and that director was cured, no doubt. Now they have gone back, he's written a book, but nobody wants to publish it. Because they are saying, if you publish it, these people will kill you. That book is with Me. I can tell anyone. I am not afraid. Somebody tried to push him down from the train also.

And now, new marketing has started about Ayurveda. That too I think is not at all done scientifically. For Ayurveda, why should you go to TM? What is the need? The other day they were saying that they pour hot oil on the Agnya. Hot is very bad for the Agnya. Absolutely, you will know yourself. You will find out yourself. What's wrong for what chakra. But because, Americans have never known black magic, have never known all these kind of crooked people, they believe them. And they are minting money. Rajneesh came here, he minted money, everybody comes here to do that and then what happens to the nation is recession. Where is the money gone? Into the ashrams of all these ....so we have to be sensible, logical. If you have any power of the mind, then try to see that this is not the truth. Try to see this is nonsense. That is the real power of the mind that you can discriminate.

Today only, I met a lady. She had been to many gurus and all that and she was in a mess. She said "But I didn't stick on to them. I could find out that they are all false and I ran away from there." But she is hurt very much. So I told her that "All right doesn't matter. You can be cured, you can be all right." And amazingly, what she said "Mother, I see your disciples who are so knowledgeable, who know so many things, they are telling you about my chakras. I have never seen that anywhere. On the contrary, all of them are fighting in other organizations." That's the good point of falsehood that people fight. I have to really warn you that this is the most important time in the history of this Universe. And this is time when you are all going to get your Self Realization. Don't be enamored by nonsensical things. These nonsensical things can only be appreciated by stupid and idiotic people. And Sahaja Yoga is not meant for idiots. It's meant for people who are alert and aware and who want the truth.

And this is what one has to understand, that all these wrong things that we have learned like Freud - Mr. Freud - when I first came here, I just denounced him. Said all nonsense he's talking. And I openly said it. And they didn't like Me, because Freud has become Jesus Christ, our Lord Jesus Christ Mr. Freud. So you couldn't talk to them about it. You couldn't say anything to them. And now you know the result today, where are we. It was Freud was another devil who ruined this country. And now there are books, I have seen, Fraudulent Freud, another one is the Fall of Freudian Empire. Now, after so many years I see that now. And that time the same people, they were just worshippers. Oh Freud! Very nice man. He was the one, if you want to go to hell, take two running jumps and go there, it's like that and he did it. No respect for your private life. No respect for yourself. No respect for this human body which God has created with such delicacy. No respect for your own personality. It's such a great thing that you are human beings. And you have to love yourself and respect yourself. Because you are the ones who are going to become saints.

Q (Lady): Do you think that marriage helps in the spiritual growth?

Shri Mataji: Of course.

Lady: In what way?

Shri Mataji: In every way. If you are unmarried and you say I'm not going to marry and you are a very big tapasvi, better be aware, if you meet someone like that go with a [barge pole?], it's so unnatural that he is full of temper and anger. You see bachelors, if they are chronic bachelors, cynical people, very hot tempered. Marriage gives you the balance. It gives you the balance; it's the way we really understand the truth about life. Of course, there are problems in marriages, I know. There are many cases of unhappiness also. But not in Sahaja Yoga. Every year, we marry about eighty to eighty-five people internationally. Hardly, one person divorced. And they have beautiful children; all of them are born realized. Because there are so many who want to be born and they can only be born to people who are realized souls. Beautiful children. So, many people who are married earlier, they come back and marry in Sahaja Yoga. It's a real marriage. And so beautiful to see how they live happily with each other. Somebody is marrying from Colombia, to England or from Russia to America - perfect. Because their wavelength of spirituality is the same. Those who don't want to marry, I'm sorry, I can't give you Realization.

Q (Lady): About the Kundalini, have we reached a special time, why it can be given now to so many people?

Shri Mataji: Of course, that's what I am saying. It's a very, very special time. I call it a Blossom time. Because, so many people are here who are just flowers, are about to become the fruits. I call it a Blossom Time. As called as the Last Judgment. As called as the Kiyama. Is also called as the Resurrection time. Uthan Samay. All kinds of names have been given. But this is the time. The modern times, the Kali Yuga as they call it. The worst time for human beings, when they seek.

Q (Gentleman): What is the cause of suffering?

Shri Mataji: Ignorance, My child. Ignorance. That's why you suffer.

Gentleman: Ignorance of what?

Shri Mataji: Ignorance of reality. You don't know realities. That's why. You see, supposing you are sitting next to the water and there is darkness and you can't see it. You are crying - "I want water, I want water." Water is here. "I am suffering, I want water." The water is here. It's ignorance, the darkness of ignorance. But reality is very beautiful. Those people who tell you to suffer, don't listen to them. There's no need. Christ has already suffered for us, isn't it? But this is the way also people make money. You must suffer. Give all your money, all your house, your children, everything to me, and you suffer now, you fast. In India, all the Brahmins will tell you - "You fast now for so many days. And last day will come; you give us five kilos of sweets for your fasting." And we do, Indians do. Even if they will have a [Homa?] for the home, they will give money. But one day I discovered one gentleman called Morari Bapu. Somehow or other I went there. Somehow. Sahaj. I was amazed. He had arranged the marriage of Shri Rama and Shri Sita. Small little Shri Ram, small little Shri Sita. And he was asking all the ladies to give something for Her [truce?]. And they were taking all their gold and diamond bangles and everything - giving it to Her. And they were doing it. Indians are also quite Shraddhavaan as they call it. Such stupid things they do, in the name of God.

I went to a village and they were coming and they all touched feet of a saint. So one lady brought ten naya paisa. She gave it to Me. So, they said "Mother doesn't take money." "All right I'll give one rupee." They cannot imagine that a person who is a saint will not take any money. Even in the mandir they will go, they have to pay money. So, in India also there is lot of stupidity, you can't imagine. But, once you start talking of Sahaja Yoga, it spreads like fire. Because they know, that's the last thing. That much they know.

Q (Lady): Is the suffering because of Karma?

Shri Mataji: Now, I must tell you this Karma theory was all right when Shri Krishna was there. Today it is not. Today, it's this center; you see here - the Agnya chakra. This is the chakra bestowed upon by the grace of Christ. If Christ is awakened there, then both these things, you see, on this side and that side - one is the ego which you think you are doing the Karma, another is the conditioning, both are sucked and that's how your Kundalini rises. So you fall into the category what we call is Akarma. When you are doing something, but you don't think you are doing it. Akarma. It is said that He died for your sins. Didn't He? When He is awakened, He sucks in. This philosophy was all right at that time, not today.

Q (Lady): How do you learn to forgive?

Shri Mataji: Now, this is the logic apply. Whether you forgive or you don't forgive, you don't do anything, what do you do? Nothing. But, you do one thing. When you don't forgive, you torture yourself. So the person who has troubled you is quite happy. And here you are torturing yourself, playing into the wrong hands. All right? Why you should you torture yourself? Leave it to God.Q (Lady): You spoke of morality as being the foundation of spiritual life. And I'm wondering if we need to have a certain morality in order to receive the self-Realization and if so, what is that morality? You also spoke of being married as a moral act or wanting to become married. Does that exclude homosexuals or people who would rather be single? [ NOT CLEAR AFTER THIS]

Shri Mataji: I have to tell you the truth again. Homosexuality is not a sin, but is ignorance. When you get possessed. I have cured many people who suffer from it. I have seen a man gets possessed by a woman. And then he behaves like that. I had never heard of such a thing in My life time. Only in the West it is more. I used to think from where it has come. I feel the way so many Indians were killed, maybe their spirits are catching. It is absurd, it is unnatural, it is nonsense. It so happened in Greece, I was there. One of the Sahaja Yogis, Michael, who had arranged My program, told Me that there is a television, but the man who will interview is the chairman of the gay people. I said, all right, doesn't matter. But, at the right time, when he was interviewing, this happened about a month before; I just forgot that he is the chairman of that. I just forgot, automatically. And the poor fellow, he asked Me many nice questions, he was quite intelligent and then he said, "But what do you say if a man has feelings for another man or a woman has a feeling for another woman?" I had forgotten that he was the chairman, so I said that "It is absurd. It is unnatural. When you get possessed only it happens like that." He said "Really?" "Yes", I said, "it happens like that". "So, do you correct these things with Sahaja Yoga?" "Yes, it gets corrected with Sahaja Yoga, no doubt." But men are easy, they are very easy, they take to really a proper, normal life. But women are difficult, because they mentally, something goes wrong, they find it difficult. "So, the men are all right?" "Yes, yes they are cured." "Oh, so there's some hope." I couldn't understand why he is saying so. Actually, he was wanting to get out of it, he was the chairman of this nonsense. And when I asked them about how they got it, it is really a possession.

Now, this disease of schizophrenia, I have never seen in India, anybody getting sick for a short time and then he is normal. Only here. Very common. Must be these people who have been killed here in thousands are possessing. I went to Argentina; I wanted to see a Red Indian. They said we have none. Went to Chile, they said, we have none. They took Me to the museum to show. And even in the museum, the gentleman who was made like that, the statue, was not a Red Indian, but a white man. Because they must have used the model for a white man only. So they all ran up to the Colombia above. And, do you know one thing? It's a divine way of working out, I think, the way you are taking drugs. Where is it made, do you know that? And how is it you have taken to those drugs? Think of it. Why people took to drugs? From those countries where people have ran away and hid themselves, they are the ones who got the cocaine. These are the Karmas. These are the collective Karmas. But, after Realization, nothing.

One has to pay even for collective evil we have put on others, one has to pay. In those days, they never had any idea of aggressiveness or the domination of others. It was after Hitler just they felt that this is a wrong thing. Before that, no. It is very surprising. Even in India, people came for three hundred years, nicely. Hospitality of Indians they accepted - three hundred years. But now if one Indian has to go to England, they will kill him. Did they come with any visas to India by any chance? See in a wider aspect, how human beings have been cruel, how they have been killing. Every time I come to America, in Immigration they trouble Me, when I have a diplomatic passport. Every time. So the people who are troubling Me, I said, "You are all immigrants also, from where do you come?" So this is a new sin they are committing. New sin. This world is so great that no population will be more. But one must understand the balance. One must treat this world as one and see how you can help each other. This is one body, one organism. It is working out, you don't know, secretly or maybe, with recession now, you are consuming all the goods from the developing countries and they are coming up to a level. China has done that. Balance has to be there. The Divine is at work, but one must understand that for our wrong doings, we have to pay collectively.

But after Realization, you are out of it, absolutely out of it. I have always seen people like today only a Swiss Sahaja Yogi rang Me up and said "Mother, Swiss are the most hypocritical people you will meet." A Swiss is telling Me about the Swiss. And after Realization, if you ask Americans, they will tell about America, if you ask the Indians, they will tell about Indians, if you ask the Russians, they will tell about Russians, they start seeing what's wrong with them. They never criticize others, I have seen. They will criticize their own people. Always, it's very surprising how they start seeing that how in ignorance we accepted certain things which were wrong. Because the light of the Divine comes within us and such compassion, such love. One fellow got sick because, I don't know why, he jumped into an ice cold water for swimming. From all over the world, letters, telephones, fax, they said not for one minute the fax was quiet. So worried about it. All over the world. My heart was filled with such joy. We have never used the power of love, the power of hatred always. Its time now for you to be the source of that divine love, you can be, all of you can.

So now, its time we all should get our Realization today. It will take hardly about ten minutes for you, not more than that. Only ten minutes and it's very simple, nothing can happen to you that is dangerous or in any way troublesome. Only thing there are three conditions we have to follow. The first condition is that you have to have full confidence in you that you will get your Realization. Now don't think I'm a sinner, don't be guilty. You are not a sinner of any kind. So, first of all you have to forgive yourself. At this moment, forget the past, you have to be in the present and you will be in the present by this happening. We are either in the future or in the past, but in between, there is a very little space of present which expands with this happening and you become absolutely thoughtlessly aware. So, this is one condition. The second one is that you have to forgive everyone. Don't think about them also. It's not worth thinking about them. Just forgive them. Forgive everyone without thinking about them. In general, you have to say, I forgive everyone. That's all. In general. Thirdly, not to feel guilty at all. I have said it before and now, again I say, not to feel guilty at all, because if you feel guilty then, this center on the left catches. Vishuddhi. And when this center catches, you can get Spondylitis, Angina, lethargic organs; all kinds of problems can come if you feel guilty. So, why feel guilty unnecessarily? If you have made any mistake, just face it that moment and finish it off. But don't keep it here, that guilt. That's not going to help you. Specially for the Catholics. One has to understand that this confession was not written in the Bible at all, never. Nobody confessed anything to Christ, nor was it written that you should confess to this priest - they also become mad, you also become mad.

So, these are very, very simple conditions. We have to now just take out our shoes, if possible, it helps. You have already taken out, all of you. This is Mr. Steven must have done it. Just to take help from Mother Earth, because She sucks in our problems. As I told you, it happens spontaneous like a living process, you don't have to do anything. But the finger tips and the hand, here, we have the centers of the sympathetic nervous system - the left side and the right side. Left side is the power of desire; right side is the power of action. So what we do is to use our left hand like this, you put it on your lap, very comfortably like this. This is suggestive of your desire to have your self-Realization. Now with the right hand, we have to nourish our centers on the left hand side, ourselves. This you have to do only today. Only for today, or tonight. Also, remember that left and right are two powers. So put both your feet apart from each other, like this. Be sure that you are all going to have it, don't doubt yourself by any chance.

Put your right hand on your heart. In the heart resides the spirit. I have already told you that if you become the spirit, you become your own guide; you become your own master. So you take your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen on the left hand side which is the center of your mastery. Then, you have to have your pure knowledge of the Divine and to awaken that, you have to put your hand in the lower portion of your abdomen on the left hand side. This is the center of pure knowledge of the Divine. Now, I have to tell you that I respect your freedom and I cannot force this pure knowledge on you nor your Self-realization, you have to ask for it. Now raise your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen, keep your eyes open, it's all right. See for yourself, I am showing you. Then on your heart, then on the corner of your neck and your shoulder. On the left Vishuddhi, as I told you, put your right hand, head to your right. This center is catching very much here. So, please don't feel guilty at all.

Now, raise your right hand on top of your forehead across and please bend your head. This is the center when you have to forgive everyone without thinking about them; in general. Now, take back the right hand on the back side of your head and push back your head as far as possible. Here, without feeling guilty, without counting your mistakes, just for your satisfaction, you have to ask forgiveness from this all pervading divine power of love.

Now, stretch your right hand palm fully. Put the center of this palm on top of the fontanel bone area which was a soft bone in your childhood. In Sanskrit, called as Talavyam, in Hindi is called as Taalu. Now, bend your head as far as possible. Its important now, push back your fingers, otherwise there will be no pressure on this scalp. Push back your fingers and now, move your scalp clockwise seven times. Push back your fingers, bend your head. Now, that we have to do with our closed eyes. That's all.

Please see that both feet are away from each other. You put your left hand towards Me, right hand on the heart and close your eyes. You can take out your spectacles. Don't open them till I tell you. It's better to take out your spectacles.

Now, put your right hand please on your heart. Here you have to ask Me a very fundamental question about yourself, you can call Me Shri Mataji or Mother, whatever you like. Please ask a question in your heart, "Mother, am I the spirit?", ask the question three times. I have already told you that if you become the spirit, you become your own master, so please take down your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen on the left hand side and here you have to say three times again and ask a question, very fundamental about yourself, "Mother, am I my own Master"?

Now, please take your right hand in the lower portion of your abdomen on the left hand side, press it hard. Here, I have already told you that I cannot force pure knowledge of the Divine on you, you have to ask for it. Now, this center has got six petals, so please ask six times, "Mother, please give me pure divine knowledge".

As soon as you ask for the pure divine knowledge, the Kundalini starts rising and we have to nourish our upper centers with our self confidence. Now raise your right hand in the upper portion of your abdomen and here with full confidence, you have to say ten times, "Mother, I am my own master". This center has been created by great prophets and great seers within us.

Now, raise your right hand on top of your heart. I have already told you that you are not this body, this mind, this conditionings and your ego, but you are the pure spirit. Here you have to say, with full confidence, "Mother, I am the pure spirit", please say it twelve times, "Mother, I am the pure spirit". Say it twelve times.

This all pervading power is the ocean of knowledge, ocean of bliss, ocean of joy, but above all, it is the ocean of forgiveness. So, whatever mistakes you have committed are easily dissolved in this ocean of forgiveness. So please forgive yourself and raise your right hand in the corner of your neck and turn your head to your right. Here you have to say with full confidence, sixteen times, "Mother I am not guilty at all". Please say it with full confidence. Put your head to your right please. I have already told you that when you forgive or don't forgive, you don't do anything, but if you don't forgive, then you play into wrong hands.

So, now please raise your right hand on top of your forehead across and please put down your head as far as possible. Here, you have to say from your heart, not how many times, "Mother, I forgive everyone, in general." Please say it from your heart, just say it, "Mother, I forgive everyone, in general." Still you think that you cannot forgive, so better ask forgiveness from the all pervading divine power for not forgiving also.

Now take your right hand on the back side of the head and push back your head. Here, without counting mistakes, without feeling guilty, you have to say, from your heart again, "O Divine Power, if I have done any mistake knowingly or unknowingly, please forgive me". Say it from your heart, just for your satisfaction, you have to say.

Now, stretch your palm and put the center of your palm on top of the fontanel bone area. Here again, I cannot force self Realization on you. You have to ask for it. So, now stretch back your fingers, put a good pressure on the scalp and please put your head down as far as possible. Now, move the scalp seven times, clockwise, slowly saying, "Mother, please give me my self Realization". Saying seven times. Bend your heads please, bend your heads.

Now, please take down your hands. Please open your eyes. Put both the hands towards Me, like this. Now, bend your head and see for yourself with your left hand if there's a cool or a hot breeze like vibrations are coming out of your own fontanel bone area. Now don't put your hand on top of your head, but away from it. And just try to see, move your hand a little bit and see if there is a cool breeze or a hot breeze coming out of your head. If it is hot, that means that you have not yet forgiven. So again, please try to forgive, forgive and forgive.

Now, please put left hand towards Me like this. And with the right hand, please bend your head. Bending your head is important. See for yourself, if there's a cool breeze or a hot breeze coming out of your head. And now forgive. Forgiveness is very important; because this center is very constricted and if you don't forgive, the Kundalini won't rise, so please forgive.

Now, again, once more with the right hand, please bend your head and see with your left hand on the top of the fontanel bone area, if there is a cool or a hot breeze coming out of your head. Don't get upset if it is hot, it will cool down.

Now, please put both your hands towards the sky like this and push back your head. And now ask a question, any one of these questions, three times, "Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost"? Or, "Mother, is this is the all pervading power of Divine Love"? Or, "Mother, is this the Parama Chaitanya"? Ask any one of these questions three times.

Now, take down your hands. Now, watch Me without thinking, you can watch Me without thinking. It is the first state where I said you become thoughtlessly aware. All those who have felt cool or hot breeze out of their fontanel bone area or on their finger tips or on their palms, please raise both your hands. Practically, the whole of America. My God, you represent it. May God bless you. You all have got it. It's so great. Madam, you didn't get? Don't doubt, it is there. No you will get it, ask for it, "Mother, come in my head". Just ask it, it will be there. I am at your disposal.

You feel very peaceful. But this is just the beginning, the sprouting. As I said, the connection must be properly done, connection must be established. And we have a nice center here; I don't know when they meet. We have very good Sahaja Yogis. When do they meet here? Friday. You will know everything about it, because the knowledge is like an ocean. In English language, I must have given at least four thousand lectures, only in English language, so many in others. So you can come here, listen to My lectures and become experts and enjoy. That's the message. Enjoy yourself. Nothing has to be done but to enjoy yourselves and enjoy each other.

May God bless you all.