"Kundalini, Power and Creation" "Miracles", Los Angeles (USA), 28 May 1985 (but possibly other locations and dates).

So, that’s a very good stanza if you can remember it by heart, I’ll say it again: ?? “Yogis soth pura sat chit su kam Param yam turyam” [Sanskrit; just phonetic]

The second part is: Yat smoth jarge sushushmna sat Brahma nishkalamam [Sanskrit; just phonetic]

So, the second part is - So, the first part, as I told you, is the Spirit which we must bow to, which is the “sat chit ananda”, the one which gives you truth, the enlightened attention and the joy and which takes you beyond the fourth dimension.

[Shri Mataji speaks in Sanskrit]: which is awake under the three conditions of our consciousness. There are three conditions of our state, of our consciousness. The first is the sleeping condition, when we are sleeping. Another is the awakened, and sushupti is beyond, beyond the sleep. In all these states, consciousness, it is awake. That Brahma, that All-pervading Power.

I am that [prap] All-pervading Power that Brahma, not the combination of five elements. I’m not just the combination of five elements [Sanskrit] but I’m that All-pervading Power, that Atma which connects you to that All-pervading Power, and I’m not just this reflector which is the combination of five elements.

Just when you think like that early in the morning you just rise above and then you do not start with mundane ideas about life, but you start your ideas and understanding, your behaviour, your whole life style starts from that angle that, “I’m that; I’m not this.” And the whole pattern changes.

That doesn’t mean you should be serious; that doesn’t mean that. You are in joy, but the style of our existence has a very different pattern and a different tune and a different colour, which is very easy for Sahaja Yogis, not difficult, because you are already there. Only thing, you must feel your atmosphere around you, where are you. [Inaudible] otherwise I’ll go on giving lectures.

Only problem comes when you become a mother. Then you feel very concerned and worried; that’s all. Otherwise, it is quite self-explanatory, the situation that exists. What to do? You want to do something about it. But they think they are obliging us. [Shri Mataji is laughing]

But traditionally, Indians are lucky people, I think [Hindi].

Like Avdut we have there. Now he is married. He’s going to France. I don’t know, he’s going to get shocks after shocks, there. He’s so innocent, he is very simple-hearted fellow. So, he says to Me, Avdut, “Mother why do the” (when he was very young) “why do the boys and girls leave their parents in the West?” So, I said, “They think they should be independent.” He said, “But then the bhoots of the parents, do they leave them or not? If you leave your parents will the bhoots leave you?” I said, “May be, may not be. Depends on the bhoots.” “Nothing on us?” I said, “Yes, it also depends on you but it’s nothing sure.” Then he said, “No use leaving the parents also because the bhoots are not going to leave you.” But with the parents there’s one thing; new bhoots cannot come to you first of all. Supposing you want to smoke, then your father will tell you, “Don’t smoke.” But if you go away from your parents then the bhoots will tell you, “You smoke.” You’ll smoke. You’ll do everything; so at least there’s some check in the house. That’s an innocent thinking, you know, just innocent.

Somebody’s walking.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi] He went to [unclear] and drives here also.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogi: Ha.

Shri Mataji: All the way from Vancouver? All the way from Vancouver you’ve come?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, it’s all right.

Shri Mataji: How many days?

Sahaja Yogini: Two and a half.

Shri Mataji: It’s our [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: Nothing is too far to travel to see You, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Sahaja Yogi: No one thinks it’s too far to come and travel to see You.

Shri Mataji: It’s quite a lot, I must say, two and a half days with children. So, what is happening in Vancouver now? Let’s have it.

Sahaja Yogini: I have not been living in the centre, Mother, but from what I’ve been told from talking with Lauren and Carrie, centres are looking very neat and more people are coming to meditations. It’s becoming really heartening that the turnout and the response to You, it’s becoming very positive, they feel. They have three or four regular people going now which has just started the last three or four months. It’s just nothing else, I guess.

Shri Mataji: I’m very happy to hear that. Because she wrote Me a very desperate letter few months back. Here’s the Pujas have helped a lot, I think. That’s true.

They have to be serious about it. It’s a, the thing is now or never. Question is like that: now or never. And the emergency is to be felt, and if it is felt in the atmosphere people will turn to Sahaja Yoga, will turn. But first of all, Sahaja Yogis have to be that proper, you see. They should be very proper people. That’s the main point. They fight among themselves, they talk ill about each other, they play games, they plan against each other. Then how can Sahaja Yoga spread? [Hindi].

His father was one of the first Sahaja Yogis, and both of them dedicated their life to Sahaja Yoga. Actually, when he died, I was not there; I had gone to Australia where I came to know about it. But every Sahaja Yogi felt tremendously about it. And now when we will be having our school...

Sahaja Yogi: Right, yes.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. Her contribution hai. [Hindi] He’s the one who had that experience. In his absence he said that I went and represented him in the court. Did you hear that miracle?

Sahaja Yogis: Oh, yes. Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: And mother was also [Hindi]. He is so dedicated; so dedicated he was. His sense of gratitude [Hindi].

Sahaja Yogi: Bara, bara.

Shri Mataji: I mean, he had such sense of gratitude for Me that I gave him Realization that very few people I find with that depth, that they feel it. I mean, his life was completely dedicated to Sahaja Yoga, absolutely. And he understood Sahaja Yoga so well, very intelligent man. I’ll miss him very much. But it so happened when he was very sick, not very sick in the sense he was moving about, but I wanted to see him before going to Australia. And thrice I tried and I couldn’t go. Then I was wondering why I can’t reach him because there was a big crowd for a meeting once. One day, there was a strike; they wouldn’t allow us to go. Third day something happened. Three times I just could not go and see him. So, I was wondering why it is, but I thought that maybe that the Divine does not want Me to see him like that, in that condition; doesn’t want Me to see that because that could hurt Me very much. I’d seen him absolutely always very healthy. I never saw him sick

Sahaja Yogi: No, no. He used to have good health, that’s why, at that age.

Shri Mataji: Very good health [Hindi]. Mother was a composer. She used to make poems herself and then she used to compose them in melodies. And she was herself a musician. She’s a very good housewife. She suffered a lot in her life, I think, because of her, one of the sons was cursed by some horrible gurus who came in the house, that all his life history should be written down for people to understand. They were very nice people, good people, husband and wife, and this boy was very intelligent, and some people came in their house, you see. They said, “We want to stay over for overnight. We are sadhus.” So, they thought, “Sadhus are our guests, after all.” So, they allowed them to stay in the house. The stayed on for about eight days and these people looked after them, did this and that. And then the son discovered that they were very bad people, and the father also. He took them out. So, they did something to the son. So, it’s very dangerous. So, the father said to Me one thing which was really very important. He said that, “Without Self-realization you cannot make out who is good and who is bad, and there was no discretion on my part to allow these people to come in the house. I thought they are sadhus and we should not say ‘no’ to them.” They talked so well because in India everybody knows about Spirit. Talking is very easy. [Hindi]. “Don’t part. We all know everything by heart.” So, to talk about God, it’s very easy for them.

And there are so many like that. We had one fellow called as Gulab Baba. His father was working with My husband in Shipping Corporation and the father said that, “He’s such a vagabond and he’s such a horrible fellow that I don’t know what to do with my son. So, you give him a job on the ship.” He was given a job on the ship. So, he went on the ship to, to know, to all over the places he went. And he was the purser on the ship; they call it a purser. He tried to take away all the purse on the ship and he smuggled things, did all sorts of things that are possible under the sun. So, they had to ask him to get out of the job. [Hindi]. His name was Chotu. And when he came back My husband had to tell him, “I can’t keep you on the job because, you see, this is the purser’s job, and in the way you have done the whole thing is just against any government rules and regulations. So, we can’t keep you there.” So, he was driven out of the job. And the father died just after that.

So, the son disappeared after some time from Bombay, and the mother came to see Me and she said that, “He told me that he would like to do some business. So, we have put our house on/loan, we have mortgaged our house, we have given all our property, all our jewelry, everything to him. And he’s gone for a business, and we are left high and dry. We don’t know what to do. Now the people have come and they want us to get out of the house.” Because that time we had come to London. I said, “All right, I’ll ask Shipping Corporation if they can give you temporary help or something.” So, they arranged for a house for her for a while. She was very upset about the whole thing. After a year I went back. She said that, “He has again purchased the house and he’s given everything back to us and we got everything, all mortgages are over and he’s sending us also money but I don’t know what is he doing, what, what business he has done.” She couldn’t make it up for some time. Then after two, three years she told me that he has become Gulab Baba. Oho. And he was working it out in Nagpur, of all the places. So, some people came and told us that there’s, there’s one fellow called Gulab Baba who has come, is showing funny miracles and he is just trying to befool people. Like he went to one place and he said, “Now the water is going to come out of this place.” And when he hit there the water started coming out. And there’s was actually a municipal pipe down there. And he had arranged it in such a way that with a slightest hit the thing should come out. And then the people started beating him. He ran away and all that.

So, I told this man, “You go and tell Gulab Baba that I’m coming to Nagpur and I want to meet you.” He ran away from Nagpur forever. That’s My place, Nagpur, all My brothers are from that place. So, for Americans it is necessary to give bandhan to the Sikhs of America. It’s very important. Because of the misunderstandings they had or whatever happened politically, now the stay of foreigners in India is limited to only three months, and going to India itself is rather difficult. You have to take a special permission and all that. You have to take a visa now to go to India. Formerly there was no visa required. Did you take a visa when you came last time?

Sahaja Yogi: To India?

Shri Mataji: India.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: See.

Sahaja Yogi: There I had a visa the first time.

Shri Mataji: First time. I mean, it was an open place to go. But also, this Yogi Bhajan is the one who has created another problem because he converted them into Sikhism and they are the ones who carried lot of arms, amunitions. [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right.

Shri Mataji: Both of them were Realized souls. They are in their joy, will take their birth again to help us out. But they are perfectly all right. They have no problems of any kind. So, I am just telling him that they have done their duty. They have really contributed so much that God is very much pleased with them, and you will be blessed, children will be blessed for what good they have done for everybody else. And you should also follow their pattern, that they lived for others, never for themselves. Selfishness [Hindi]. Never, no selfishness at all. We lived for others. [Hindi]

So, I would like to baptize the baby now. [Hindi] Olive oil [Hindi] she is better. [unclear] rather cold. Aj birthday, that’s it. Today she’s all right. Today she’s all right. Slept well? [Shri Mataji is speaking with Sahaja Yogis and with the baby in Hindi] Normally they don’t cry for nothing at all. They use to preserve their energies. We are also sending one gentleman there, in, where she got, [Mona]?

Sahaja Yogis: Mona? Here...

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]? Ha. This Bala, Bala is coming to Montreal, but Montreal is more a French side, I think. He said that he will try to establish something there. He’s quite powerful. But later on, he’s getting a job here.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogi: I spoke to him. [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] got a job. She got him a job, this one is. And then they got one job who came forward and then the second one. But they said for emigration will take six months more. So, that’s why he was going to... He was working with Rolls Royce.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, are va.

Shri Mataji: Ha, Rolls Royce. But in England they are paid very low, very low, very low.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, I see.

Shri Mataji: Even Rolls Royce and all that paid so little that it is better to be a road builder or a garbage cleaner than to be an engineer there.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right.

Shri Mataji: Money wised [GW: wise?]. They have no respect for education, no respect. That way Australia is differently made. But this is coming everywhere. Even Sweden, Norway, they do not care for education much. For higher education, they do not care. Even in [many type/ maritime] activities they don’t want to educate people in, on the higher level, just make them technicians, that’s all. They want to make them technicians.

Sahaja Yogi: Trades require [in Australia].

Shri Mataji: Trade, later, trades, trades. I don’t know what is the logic, but that’s what they are going to do. Engineer [Hindi speaking with a Sahaja Yogi]. This computer is a very dangerous sign again. You see, it can become a monster itself.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, is that right?

Shri Mataji: Yes, it can. It can go out of your hands. If it starts acting, you see, you have to be very careful.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

[Shri Mataji talking in Hindi with a Sahaja Yogi.]

Sahaja Yogi: That’s why it is going to be out of control, they say, by mistake.

Shri Mataji: By mistake [Hindi]? One split second [Hindi]. Simple thing is, “Don’t fight.” Russians and Americans, there is no need for them to fight at all. I mean... This is a Krishna bhumi. It’s Rama only, isn’t it? And Russia was made by Luv and China was made by Kush. So, they are fighting against their father.

Shri Mataji talking in Hindi with a Sahaja Yogi about Luv and Khush.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] The country is called as Khushar, Khushar country. [Hindi] We have got lots of proofs. Already there are some families, Indian families called as Luv who are staying there in, in Caucasus. They came down. And there’s a temple of the Goddess of Hindu [Leela] there, in, on their way to Caucasus. And the whole, if you see, Chinese language has so much of Marathi words, that I was amazed. Like they say Mao Tse Dung, Tse is only Marathi. Have you heard “tse” anybody says? Only the Chinese and Indians speak that “tse”, and so many words are Marathi, so many. And the Russians have one Marathi word, which is very common, is sakhar.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, is that right?

Shri Mataji: Sakhar, sakhar bolo.

Sahaja Yogi: Sakhar? Sakhar like that? Wow!

Shri Mataji: So, many words are so common, that’s surprising. And I could pronounce their words very clearly. So, they were surprised. They said, “How do I know Russian?” and then they became suspicious. Same with Chinese. And in a way, you can see that wisdom in their heads, you see. Both are very wise people. They are not stupid, like the Americans are. They are not stupid people, very clever. And I don’t know if the cleverness is going to work out the things. Like see now, the one wisdom they have shown, Russians, that they had a barter system with India. They said, “All right, whatever we will send you, you instead give us rupees for that.” All the machinery, that junk they had, they sold us and took the rupees. Out of that they bought our carpets, [stipple layers, stabilizers?], and also beautiful laces and then this and that. If you go into their houses you won’t believe; they had all palaces.

They live so well. Very wise people. You see, to get it in rupees and get all the handmade things from India at a cheap rate, and they also asked us to make very beautiful crockery for them. So, India is making these things. Crockery started because of them. Beautiful crockery. So, if you go to their houses, you’ll be amazed, how many things they have in so cheap rate, handmade things. They have got all kind of leopard’s coats, this coat, that coat, all kinds of things from India they have. Very clever people. The other wisdom these Chinese have shown that they developed [the village] I should say wiser than Indians, because they developed their villages first. They took all the ideas of Gandhiji. First, they developed their villages and now they are developing their cities. So, they have done everything so fast. We were the other way round, see. We became British.

Sahaja Yogi: Developed the cities.

Shri Mataji: We pay for it. We developed the cities. So, we are paying for this. We thought Gandhiji was no good. But they were so wise. So, you see, they show the, that wisdom, or I say the Maharashtrian wisdom in them, because Sitaji lived in Maharashtra for so many years, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi about Shivaji]. They are so fond of Shivaji; that’s something surprising, Russians are. So, fond of Shivaji and also fond, of course, Mahatmaji very much. Surprising it is. How they picked up these things from Gandhiji, I don’t understand. This Mao is the one who did everything. So, many plans that Gandhiji had, they have worked it out. Like in India they said, “He is stupid, this, that.” Nobody would pay attention. We, we were all egoistical like English not to see the sense. One of the plans Gandhiji had was very sensible, that took the big canals along the roads and to put fishes in the canals, and also to be used for extra transport, you see, through the boats and all that. Same thing they did it. Every road has got canals on both the sides, and the same canals when they are overflowing are also used for giving water to their plants, I mean fields. Same thing, so many things that Gandhiji has done it, they have used.

But, you see, our bureaucrats are all educated in English language, and I don’t know what they are to do. It’s a big mess. And also, they had no discretion. Like our telephone system in India is thanks to the French. French put that telephone system in India, and you know how it is working. This is all done by French. Can you believe it? It’s the French people who did this. Now we can’t change it. The whole thing they have spoilt it. Such self-opinionated people like French. Why should you have asked the French to do it? Whatever they did, they made a mess.

And another wisdom Russians have, they have another very great wisdom, which Americans don’t have. This is the trouble with them; they must learn this wisdom is, that whenever you give something to someone, have grace about it; otherwise, whatever you give it’s lost. Russians are very clever. They’ll give this little but they’ll have such a grace you see with it that people feel attached to it. This is al, a basic wisdom. While here, they have given help to us in India. Like they sent us the worst wheat possible because they dumped their wheat here. So that wheat they sent us. Out of that wheat they mixed it up with some sort of an acacia. That acacia when they took it out, I mean, most of the women threw away that wheat.
And that acacia had a kind of a seed in it, God knows what was that, that it grew into huge big trees of thorns. [Hindi] They call it a mad acacia. And the thorns are poisonous. And once we were having a program, and Alan Nix who was the only American we had, and the thorns went into him. Of course, we cured him but I mean it happened like that. And then they gave a kind of rice also. No, this happened in India, acacia thing came with the rice. And the, and the, the wheat you see, wheat was so bad that Indians couldn’t eat it. So, they threw it away, and out of that wheat came out the monster called congress grass. They call it a congress grass because you have a congress here. So, they call it congress grass. It started eating up all the fields, everything. So, when the people came to Me, they said, “Mother, do something about it. We don’t know how to destroy it.” “You cannot destroy it. You have to dig up the whole thing for ten feet; then you might be able to destroy it, so bad it is.” Then it rained and rained and rained for seven days and the whole thing got completely finished. Otherwise, they didn’t know what to do; it was eating every crop, everything in Maharashtra.

So, they think by aggressiveness, by showing off, people are interested. They are not. And then you commit mistakes like this, that you go and visit the SS people to... [Hindi] People don’t like it even in America all that. They don’t like it, I know. But this is the situation here. To do such a thing was very, very wrong, I think, because nobody liked it. An adamant [huh].

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: What’s wrong? That has brought down the image of America verily.

Sahaja Yogi: They think they can buy anything with money.

Shri Mataji: Aaa?

Sahaja Yogi: They think they can buy anything with money, including people also.

Shri Mataji: Including people. [Hindi] Any self-respect nahin milega.

Sahaja Yogi: Self-esteem ecdam low.

Shri Mataji: Self-respect nahin hai. You see, it’s through tradition only one learns graciousness. Those people who are not traditional cannot learn graciousness. So at least take to certain traditions of being gracious. You see in India how people are gracious; you have been there now. They may be poor but how gracious they are. “It’s bad manners to say this. It’s bad manners to do that.” Here it’s very common. [Hindi] “I have no mangos, nothing. She asked me, “Have you got mangos? Have you got [masala]?” I said, “Nothing of the kind, I haven’t got anything.” [Hindi] diplomatic passport hai.

Sahaja Yogi: Barabar.

Shri Mataji: And they are not supposed to touch us. And she said, “No, but you are not here for diplomatic things.” So, first question she asked, she was with Me, she said, “Who is she to You? Why are you going together?” I said, “She is My friend.” She said, “What is your relationship? Where did you meet?” I said, “You are not supposed to ask all these questions [to, from] Me.” She said, “Now you open everything.” [Hindi] I told her also. She would not listen.

[Shri Mataji talking in Hindi with Sahaja Yogis]

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji I’ve been already instructing [Masha/Marshal] from the State Department [that have been here] today.

Shri Mataji: No, no, what I am saying, let him write also.

Sahaja Yogi: As well...

Shri Mataji: It’s very good. Because we can say she was my guest. She was coming...

Sahaja Yogi: And about that we want this person who spoke to You in such a way to be disciplined, and this will be the end of the matter. This is just informing them that things would be happening from above as we are phoning upwards. So, then we’ll be telling him that people will be contacted, You know, from the top downwards, just to let them know.

Shri Mataji: Should we do that much [unclear]?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji, yes.

Shri Mataji: Then she has no business to ask so many questions. When I said, “She is My friend.” “Now what is your relationship? Where did You meet her?” I said, “You are not supposed to ask all that. As long as I said she is My friend, all right.” She said, “I’m supposed to.” And she said, I said, “This is diplomatic.” She said,”Yes, but You have not come for diplomatic thing. So, I can see everything.” And she didn’t. You see what you should put in, that see didn’t see hers, so that racialism is a order to her head. She’s a racist, she was. There was no need for her to behave like this. Even she knew little bit of Hindi, I think, because an Indian man said, “She is a mad woman, you see, pagal hai.” She said “Pagal nahi hai”.

Sahaja Yogi: Ah! She said that?

Shri Mataji: And in Argentina [Hindi] ambassador [Hindi] “I’ll meet You outside as I’m going out.” He thought I’ll be just following him because he, too, had a passport and I had the same passport, diplomatic passport.

Sahaja yogi: [Hindi speaking about Americans].

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Sahaja yogi: [Hindi]. The pilot came in. They harassed him right during the flight.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]

Sahaja yogi: For six cans of milk that were going for emergency to feed some child in India.

Shri Mataji: But why?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, they, they think, You know if he is, late it was, what do you call, two shoulder bags, you know, one shoulder bag, regular shoulder bag, and this was additional bag which will inform them that there is an emergency.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Discretion [Hindi].

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] we have. That they cannot take over, you see. It’s an international law. And drug is different. I mean, I don’t look like a woman, a sixty-three-year-old woman, is she going carry drugs from London? I’m coming from London. Will I carry drugs from London to America? What is there to carry from London to America? Is going from America to London.

Sahaja Yogi: Right. You are right.

Shri Mataji: Nahin, nahin, aggression hai. [Hindi] she was very aggressive, that’s all. I mean, there should be same case behind it. I was coming from London. So why will I carry drug all the way from London to this place? From America, actually. America must be censured more. They are carrying AIDS all over.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, they are.

Shri Mataji: They are to be disinfected. Actually, they should be. In London, you know, AIDS has spread so much, so widely spread. [Hindi]. And they are all saying they went to America and that’s how they’ve got it. One fellow who came to America got it here. He went to Australia. We cured him, but again he got it back from another American woman there. So what are we to do now with these Americans also? They must be told that they should behave themselves. [Hindi] We cured him, Crosby. He says that that fellow was suffering from the same trouble and I went to see him. “But why did you see him? What was the need?” He said, “Because he was doing TM. I was also doing TM. I wanted to tell him about Sahaja Yoga.” Just imagine.

Sahaja Yogi: [Marathi]

Shri Mataji: [Marathi]

Sahaja Yogi: [Marathi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Mataji You are lawyer of lawyers because, you see, whenever he had any problem, I used to tell him [Hindi]. So, I always said that I don’t understand human laws. He said, “Then how do you know this?” [Hindi]. How to depend on anyone because she was so sincere and [he] would achieve everything. All their marriages, he got them registered, everything. Now I think we are going to also register our name as a religion in India, Vishwa Nirmala Dharma [Hindi]. So, would all the marriages that take place through this will be called [Hindi].

Sahaja Yogi: Instead of Arya Samajh Wedding.

Shri Mataji: Aaa?

Sahaja Yogi: Instead of Arya Samajh weddings we have Vishwa Nirmala Dharma weddings.

Shri Mataji: Vishwa Nirmala weddings. That’s it.

Shri Mataji: All right, ha. So, we call her Radhika. Here in the country of Shri Krishna we should call her Radhika. [Hindi]. Sometimes she does look like mother little bit; then again she goes back to her father’s face. But it was a miracle how Madhuri got married, you see and then how she came here. [Marathi]

Shri Mataji: So, you are working here as an architect now?

Sahaja Yogi: I have one more series of other exams before I’m licensed.

Shri Mataji: I see. But then you are not going to start a working with some firm or something?

Sahaja Yogi: I’m working with a firm now, Mother. I’m working as an architect but I don’t have a license.

Shri Mataji: I see. You see, we are thinking of starting a combined firm of international architects. So, you could be a member of that international architects, you see.

Sahaja Yogis: Oh, that’s nice.

Shri Mataji: So that all the architects, you see, exchange ideas among themselves about architecture and the beauty of international architecture because, you see, that’s architecture is also weighing on the minds of people very much. Like in Germany this Bauhaus; you must have heard about it.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: This movement started and they tried to neutralize all the beautiful things.

Sahaja Yogi: It’s awful.

Shri Mataji: And made it into very simple, drab houses, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Stark.

Shri Mataji: Absolutely. And outside if you see, they look like prisons, absolutely like prisons. Horrible. Bauhaus. And now in Germany it so happened that they find the houses are very much needed. So, they have put all these houses on all the children’s parks and playgrounds and everything, and the schools are made of ten-storey schools and things like that. So, the children have no place to play. So, they are taking to drugs and very destructive and there’s no, it’s become horrid place now. So, we should do something about it, you see? We must know about the international architecture, how they work it out and then the ideas can be very helpful. We can integrate also. You haven’t received yet the brochure?

Sahaja Yogi: No, not yet Mother, not yet. I’ll phone Gavin and ask him.

Shri Mataji: Ha. What did he say?

Sahaja Yogi: No, no, I will, I’ll phone him. It’s just not been time.

Another Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. Otherwise, she’s quiet. [Hindi]. You must give them a good massage before sleeping and then put some powder, clean their body and then they sleep very well. But give a nice massage to the children and put some ghee in the nose little bit and...

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi].

Shri Mataji: [Again] misguidance.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi].

Shri Mataji: Because, you see, they all parents suffer from liver trouble. So, they have allergies and they think that the oil gives you the allergy.

You must heat it up nicely, heat up the thing and then rub it. When it is rather cool then you can rub it. [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogini: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Ah, now, now you are all right. Ha?

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. That’s the system we have. [Hindi] You see, we used to have a system that the mother also would be really rubbed off nicely with oil with very hefty women, you see, with very strong hands. But four, five women used to just rub the body. And then they would give you a dhuni from down below, you see, in a charcoal. [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogini: Charcoal.

Sahaja Yogi: Stool. [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: No, charcoal hai. [Hindi].

Sahaja Yogi: Stoolware.

Shri Mataji: Stool nahi.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear, Hindi maybe]

Shri Mataji: Like a pot, you see, pot with holes. And the lady was asked to sit on that one and the, on the charcoal they would put this ajwain that smoke could come out and the lady was covered with a black blanket, like a tent, holding tight to share to bear all that, you see. And it was very good and I’ve gone through all that.

Sahaja Yogini: They used to stand. I always volunteered.

Shri Mataji: Yes, I’ve also gone through that.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, marriages time. Those marriages in India. Here would be that time nothing.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. They experiment on children. They experiment on everyone. [Hindi].

So, you like the name, Radhika.

Sahaja Yogini: [Hindi] Radhika.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi]. So now ata kaya program hai?

Sahaja Yogi: Breakfast [unclear]. [Hindi] bhajan, Mother?

Shri Mataji: What is it? [Hindi]

[Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis are talking in Hindi.]

Sahaja Yogi: Sab ko dua dena [Hindi].

Shri Mataji: Kaun? You play that?

Sahaja Yogi: Sab ko dua dena harmonium. Oh, yea.

Shri Mataji: On the harmonium?

Sahaja Yogi: Don as well has done the [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: Yaman Kalyan [Hindi].

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Yaman? Bhairavi, Anibhairava?

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, are va.

Shri Mataji: I taught them three ragas in Rome: Bhairavi and Bhairava and also Yaman. Let’s see. But we have got Phil, Phil, in Marie-Laure’s husband, you know. Marie-Laure. You know Marie-Laure? She is the sister of the Gregoire.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s Marie-Laure. Marie-Laure.

Shri Mataji: Ha, Marie-Laure. Her husband, he’s now become the master of harmonium. See, you must all the time play harmonium, you see, and try to find your own notes. Then it becomes automatically; you can play it. Not difficult. If you have one harmonium just go on playing on it. You see, you just try to find your tunes on the thing. You just learn it. He’s very good. You can do it, isn’t it? You’re doing very well now. Did you hear Phil playing on the harmonium? Phil?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, lovely, yes.

Shri Mataji: It catches every tune. That’s the sign.

[Shri Mataji and a Sahaja Yogini are talking in Hindi.]

[A Sahaja Yogi is explaining where he bought his harmonium. He is playing the beginning of Yaman raga.]

Shri Mataji: This is Yaman raga. In this only the Sa, Re, Ga, Ma; Ma means the fourth note. Fourth note only goes different. You see, that’s how. [Hindi]. This is simple. [Hindi]. This is Komal [flat]. This is what we see. Now here only the Ma, the fourth note changes which you can see now. The Sa, Re, Ga, Ma [Hindi]. Sa, Re, Ga, Ma, Ni, Ma.

Sahaja Yogi: This is dropped there.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Ma, see? Difference? The fourth note is only changed, only the fourth note.

[Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis are talking in Hindi.]

[Shri Mataji’s appreciation or commentary from time to time.]

Sahaja Yogi: And the meaning [Hindi]? "Guru daya sindhu" is, guru is all merciful.

Shri Mataji: Sindhu is the ocean. He’s the brother of all those who are downtrodden. He is the mother who gives you the second birth.

Sahaja Yogi: Rebirth.

Shri Mataji: Rebirth.

Sahaja Yogi: After the Kundalini is raised, soul realizes the rebirth; same thing.

Shri Mataji: Daata means the one who is the saviour. He’s the only saviour. There’s nobody greater relation than the guru. That’s the destination; guru is the destination. You have to reach to the quality of the guru, and he’s the one who gives you Moksha. So, arise the relation.

Sahaja Yogi: Once you get guru charan you don’t need anything else in the life.

Shri Mataji: Charan is the feet. Better tape it. [Hindi] Ah! Beautiful. See the vibrations. Just like Puja it is. The vibrations [that soothe you].

But this has been misused very much. It’s meant for the Sat gurus, the ones who give you Realization.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right. Yes.

Shri Mataji: Who should talk of God, not those gurus which have come out calling themselves gurus. Sat guru.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right, yes.

Shri Mataji: These should be the qualities in a guru. If they are not there, just is a money-making proposition. [Hindi].

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, [Marius’s] mother sent through me some "poa" for the baby. This the good time for you to receive this?

Shri Mataji: She has sent something for the baby. [Hindi]

[Hindi]

1:15:56 [ FIRST CUT IN THE AUDIO]

 
 
1:15:59
[Somebody is playing guitar, a Marathi song]

Shri Mataji: Hai, Mathe.

Sahaja Yogis: Hai, Mathe.

[End of the song]

Shri Mataji: Wow, beautiful, very beautiful, very, very beautiful, beautiful.

A Sahaja Yogi: Thank you, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Hmm, just tremendous. How did you do it?

Everybody’s laughing.

Shri Mataji: Marathi kaha se aa gaya?

Sahaja Yogi who was singing: Ma, English main likha hoga, translation Madhuri [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Marathi is a very difficult language to pronounce, but you did well.

Sahaja Yogi who was singing: Yes... I made a lot of mistakes at first.

Shri Mataji: We have the most difficult language. Beautiful. But I feel Marathi is a very integrated language.

Sahaja Yogi who was singing: Yes.

Shri Mataji: It’s a very integrated language. It doesn’t have only one style or one type of things. It is very direct and very subtle, very, very integrated language. I mean, even the jokes and things, there is no vulgarity at all. Maharashtrians don’t know vulgarity. All the time they are laughing. And people can’t understand so why they are laughing. Every word, you see, has double meanings and this and that, very happy people. Very integrated language, I must say.

Like my husband who have come with Me, he used to come with me to see some Marathi places, and to translate it at that instant, I mean instantaneously, was so difficult for Me. I said, “This language has a big tradition behind it, history behind it. How to translate it that fast?” One day, it happened one word like [Marathi] word came in. [Marathi]. He said, “What’s that?” I said, “All right, I’ll go and tell you at home, you see? It’s a funny word. It cannot be explained in one minute.” He said, “But what that does mean? Everybody laughs, you see.” I said, “I’ll tell you at home.” So, when we went home, I told him, “Let’s see, this man he said look like [Marathi]. So, the meaning is that supposing a person dies, now he becomes the forefathers of someone who is on this earth. Now he is doing all kinds of sinful things. So, he is the [paapi] who is doing all kinds of sinful things. So how his forefather will feel helpless and how he will look, how he will [tend] down, you see, with the idea that he cannot throw this fellow, into his grave, grand grandson or whosoever, maybe. That it means that that man who is dead long time back and he is worried of his grand grandson who is committing sin. So, this fellow look like that fellow.” He said, “That [paap].” Just see. It’s such a description of a man that he looks like a [Paapyasetitar] as if he was the great-grandfather of a sinner who died long time back. How will he feel in the limbo? You see. I mean, this is one of the things; otherwise it is full of jokes. And every word, everything is so humorous. If you are in the company of My brother Ranjeshwara, Baba, the stomach starts paining all the time; just can’t help it. Hmm, [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: [Marathi].

Another Sahaja Yogi: No? I’m be able to play it with the words in and be very [rusty].

Shri Mataji: Your jazz music is somewhere near ours, jazz music. But there’s no system in jazz. We have a system. But the creativity is the same style. It goes into ragas, only jazz, but there’s no built-up system for that. Ours is melody, but it is very creative also, such as integrated all those things. One...

Sahaja Yogi: Sai Baba ki aarti [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Sainath. Shirdi Sainath. His aarti.

Sahaja Yogi: Lalit Pancham raga hai.

Shri Mataji: This is Lalit, is a very beautiful raga, Lalit Pancham.

[Bhajan]

Shri Mataji: He was a Muslim but how they respected him. He was a Muslim but in Maharashtra he’s respected as a big saint. Vibrations started. [Hindi].

[End of bhajan.]

Shri Mataji: Ha, Sainath of Shirdi.

Sainath, you see, was a, you know about Sainath of Shirdi, but he took a photograph of Sai Baba, one photographer, and his all folds were there, and on the fold My face came, completely, with My round thing, and face, eyes, everything; complete face came on it. So, the Shishya showed him, the one who had taken the photograph. He said, “Who is this?” He said, “This is my Mother. And She’s going to come back one day.” Now, this one, this photograph was then acquired by his son. And this, he saw My photograph, this happened in [Hindi] Ambarnath.

So, this fellow, when he saw My photograph, he came to Me and he said that, “See, Mother Your photograph was in Sainath’s clothes and all that. We wrote to him this thing, that and we got a book also. And this is Your photograph. I said, “It’s true.” ”Were You his Mother?” I said, “It’s true. I was his Mother.” So then, you see, this man became very greedy himself, became very greedy. He enlarged the photograph, he wrote a book, you see, praising Me, saying all these things. There’s a book written down, all these things. But, you see, the greed killed him completely. He made a big temple out of it and all that thing and he made money out of it. I mean, naturally I had nothing to do with him. I said, “This is, this is no good. How can you make money out of this saint place as Ambarnath?”

Sharayuh can tell you many things about Me.

There was another guru who was staying there. His name was Jagannath Baba. And he had another, his guru was in actually in the real Ambarnath. It is there, I have forgotten the name of that guru, something like - wait a bit. So, this fellow came to see Sharayuh. He said, “When is Mataji coming to see you?” She said, “Oh, She’s coming on such and such day.” He said, “She must come to my ashram. I must see Her, because my guru has told me that Adi Shakti has taken Her birth and She will come to Ambarnath. So, you stay there and She will clear your Agnya.” So, Sharayuh was quite surprised, you see. She said, “All right, when My Mother will come, I’ll ask Her.”

1:29:43 [SECOND CUT IN THE AUDIO]
 
1:29:45
[Totally different conversation]

So, we’ll not go too far with the creation, but we have to start it from some point, that first it was just Parabrahma, and when this energy Parabrahma was in silence, then nothing was there, just silence. From that [too] it was awakened that a human being can sleep, in the same way it was sleeping. Then the desire was awakened that there should be creation. So, the desire was emitted out, out of the being, all around, and so we have two powers created. The first one is the power of God Almighty what we call, is the power of desire of God Almighty and God Almighty Himself. So the first was the Adi Shakti, power of God’s desire. Now this Adi Shakti who is the power of God, was, was the Adi Maya, is the first one.

So, the Parabrahma became divided into two parts. One was the God Almighty, Sadashiva, and the Adi Shakti. So, the first power was created. Then the Adi Shakti was asked to create. And so, if you read My chapter on creation which I’ve written down, you’ll see how Omkara was created and all that. But we’ll go further with it. That it took three shapes. Before becoming the three shapes, Adi Shakti herself had to assume the ego, cause She had to create. With human beings is the other way round. When they do something, they develop ego. But God has to have ego to develop something, because His ego is real.

So, She then, in Her ego created three powers, we can say, in general, because to make it short. So first She entered on this Universe as the desire power which we have on the left-hand side. And then this desire power went into another power which we can call as the action power. The same desire power created out of Her the action power. Unless and until there is desire power, there cannot be action. And with the interaction of these two the evolutionary power was created. Now the Adi Shakti Itself is the residual power because it created all the powers and still it remained residual.

So, the fourth power is the Kundalini, which is the reflection of the Adi Shakti in the human beings. So, the power which was the action power, the physical side, was created.

It’s very interesting how the Mother Earth was created also. She, the power of Sun, created the Mother Earth, in the sense the gases around it moved in such a way that it formed a big ball of gases, because they have the circulatory action. And how the circulatory action came in is also very interesting thing. That when the Adi Shakti started creating, She started from, say, this point. She went down, this is a [remblai] and She went back. Again She did like this. And at a point She used to turn round and create a center like this. Then the whole thing became a thick mass of energy. Then it would crack. When it would crack with the same inertia every particle would move like that. And when every particle would move like that, then all the angularities of that mass would be cut off and it will become round. That’s how a mandala was created, or you can say a Surya mandala was created.

Then the Mother Earth which was very hot was taken nearer the Moon which was very cool. First the moon was created. It was very cool. So, by putting the Sun and the moon very far away, they created the moon which had cooled down very much, had become absolutely cool. So, first the Mother Earth was taken towards the moon quite a lot. Now, see, in the nadis also it happens. Was taken too much to the left because of the desire power. And then it was cooled out. When it cooled out it flows. It all was covered with ice. Then it was brought back to the sun. That’s how the water was created. And then it was brought back again in the center and placed at a point where life could be produced. It was all done. It’s not just happened. It was all done. That’s the point one must understand.

Now, this energy on the right-hand side which started creating universes, as I showed you how it created universes, it first produced the physical part of it, and that is what is the electromagnetic force. But then out of all this the Mother Earth created carbon. As soon as she created the carbon through the effect of the electricity that is Vishnumaya, the carbon got attached to the hydrogen and the oxygen. These are, left side is the hydrogen, right side is the oxygen. And that’s how amino acids were formed. First the amino acids were formed. That’s how the prana started.

So, first it was just the electromagnetic force which became prana. So, in the electromagnetic field you will find there are vibrations clearly shown asymmetric, symmetric vibrations are there. Say if you take a sulphur dioxide as one of the molecules, you’ll find sulphur has got two oxygens vibrating it. But it is just the electromagnetic force. It’s just one force, out of the one energy which is out of the three energies. Now the second force started called as prana on the right-hand side which ultimately created the mind, the brain. So, when you get realized then it becomes pranava. So, from electromagnetic to prana, from prana to pranava. Pra means enlightened. The left side is the power of the emotions. Because, you see, English is a very funny language, it doesn’t discriminate. I don’t know how to say, because mind is the same as the Spirit, and Spirit as the mind is a big confusion.

What it means that the “manasa”, which is the mind according to Sanskrit language, manasa is the left-hand side. Is the manasa which we call the superego. And the ego is ahamkara. So, they have two things, ahamkara. So, with the right side you produce ahamkara; with the left side you produce manasa. So, the left is the power of the manasa, the emotional power on the left-hand side. Now when you get realized then these two powers join together.

So Pranava starts. First is like this I would say, to give you a very, very gross example is this way. That I come from, say, India and I go to England. So, I carry a tape recorder, we could say. I go on taping everything, accumulating all the knowledge, understanding everything what has happened and all that. Then again I go back, carrying all the knowledge; is like that. So the energy first was innocent energy, became nascent, it became active, it carried the whole thing, the knowledge with it. And then it’s relieved.

Like I can come to America, take a tape recorder, tape everything, whatever has happened, go back and reveal it. So, the revelation then comes to you. And now you can trace it back again. This is the play this is the Maya; that’s all.

Did you follow this point? No?

This is Maya again.

[Laughter]

It’s like this, you see. All the energy was, first of all was Mahamaya, all right? We can say, the Mahamaya, or we can say the Adi Shakti. Now, She created out of Her, one thing as the desire. She created another thing as the action, and action had two things. One is just to produce first of all the matter through electromagnetic force, and then second part is to, out of the same electromagnetic force with the help of the action and reaction, to create the higher force which is prana, and with the action of these two, as I said, told you, that electricity acted to create the first amino acids. When the amino acids came into existence, the amino acids became later on the prana, in the sense that this higher part of electromagnetic exposure started as an integration.

And [Hindi] Vishnumaya [Hindi], carbon electricity [Hindi]. Carbon was created by Mother Earth and then through the carbon, you see, fire created the carbon, and the carbon through the earth. The carbon came out and it got mixed up with hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen comes from left and oxygen from the right. That’s how then amino acids act. Then the prana started. So, the whole thing became the prana, right-side. The lower portion is the electromagnetic; the higher portion is the prana.

Now this prana started, and with this prana people, we can say that they tried to control prana and all those things. On the right-hand side, they wrote Vedas, where they tried to control electromagnetic forces by shutis, shrutis, mantras and all those things, you see. That was a right-side movement, through fire and everything.

And the left side people we are having these “manas shaktis”. Manas shakti is the power of emotions. They felt that they should pray to God and ask for God’s help and devotion and dedication. So, two movements were started.

The third movement was in the center. The center movement was that it has become from carbon to amino acids, from amino acids to human beings. Now from human beings it has to become Brahma, last thing.

So how to do that? That was the last work to be done. So, as I was explaining to you, it is like this, that the Adi Shakti first of all took a form of all these three powers Herself. She created this world. She created human beings. Through the human beings She created Sahaja Yogis. And through the Sahaja Yogis, She is going to reveal the truth to the whole world. You follow the point now? Like I said, I take a cassette from London, bring it here. On My way I tape record everything and I sort of enlighten it. Then I take it back and play it in London. So, people listen to it and understand it. So now, because it could not be communicated to the creation, She had to create Sahaja Yogis. Do you follow now?

So, you have to play a very important role. But if the cassette is defective nothing works out. Then there I fail. Because you have got freedom; the cassette doesn’t have. The engineer can improve it. But human beings, difficult.

Sahaja Yogi: Lot of self-created problems.

Shri Mataji: Self-created. Nonsensical, absolutely nonsensical. Has no meaning to reality. Has no meaning. [Hindi]. And I cannot give reasons for why it has happened like this, that why human beings went to that limit. But we can say that Adam and Eve started the joke. If they had not done all this nonsense you would have been long time being Sahaja Yogis. Long-time back it could have been done.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right, yes.

Shri Mataji: But as soon as they got their freedom they went out. Same thing with Americans. I think they are abusing their freedom just like Adam and Eve. Or anyone, all those so-called free countries. This is not freedom; this is abandonment. And those countries which are oppressed, like Russia, are on the left-hand side.

Sahaja Yogini: Please teach us that how to raise children in America, sometimes.

Shri Mataji: What is it?

Sahaja Yogini: Could you speak to us about the best ways to raise children in America? I have two teenage children and I’m...difficult [unclear]...

Shri Mataji: Now this school will solve all the problems. It’s such an emergency that now starting the school, that’s the only thing. I think I should start first of all a school for Sahaja Yogis’ children. Because, you see, it’s, it’s [Hindi]. It’s burning from all the sides, you see. The best thing is to take them out for the time being. Then we’ll see what we can do about this place.

But I think, in America, if you do lots of pujas all of you, your individual pujas, your group pujas, you’ll work it out; it’ll give the compensation. Pujas must be done. That’s one thing is lacking.

You see, have a photograph, like a decoration should not be, there should be puja, aarti, some of [Hindi]. That helps a lot. I think that will help to counterbalance the other power.

This is the only way I can think of, that pujas must be done with full dedication and understanding. That will solve the problem of collectivity. And, say, we, and puja how to do it and all that, you know very well, and not that is to be taught now. But you all should be prepared for a puja and should think that that is a very important part you have to do in Sahaja Yoga. Because Italy, it has worked out because of pujas. Rustom has worked it out even in Milan through pujas. You don’t have to do Havanas. Havanas are not good for you because it’s right sided, not so much. Once in a while, all right, but mostly pujas. That will work it out. And it’ll clear your heart also. I mean, if the people are not very clear in the heart because of the ego, you see it covers the heart, you see, and there is no surrender. That’s why Mohamed Sahab talked about surrender only. Islam means surrender. You must surrender this time; surrender your ego. What can you understand through your ego? Nothing, it’s just a small little thing. And then you play games with yourself, with Sahaja Yoga, with this, that. I mean, it’s so low level, low level sometimes. I can’t understand. These are saints. That’s, that’s Kali Yuga. That’s, that’s what is the modern times. In Kali Yuga anything can be possible. I’ve seen Realized souls drinking, smoking. I can’t understand. Now we get born-realized living like that. That’s only in Kali Yuga.

And the other trend has also started very much, like they are showing Christ’s Mother as a woman, like an ordinary woman. They make her nude and all that. There’s a picture coming up. It’s all happening from Hollywood, Hollywood. Kya ek narak hai? (Hindi)

Sahaja Yogi: In San Francisco, Shri Mataji, there was some gay priest who said that Christ, he was trying to say that Christ was gay. [Of] gay church.

Shri Mataji: You see, if you tell this to Indians they don’t know where to go. C.P. heard it and he telephoned to Me. He said, “Have you heard something like that? I’m coming home, I can’t bear it.” You see, I mean, he is not a Christian in the sense he never went to church and all that. But he was so hurt and he was so surprised. He said, “Where are they going? How can they say this to Christ?” There’s no sense of sacredness. But now you have seen all the miracles of Sahaja Yoga. Like yesterday we saw that film, I was saying you, “Star Man”. There’s nothing, no tremendous miracles. Like these we have had many miracles in Sahaja Yoga. You have seen the light coming out of My head, and light coming on My hand, and everything you have seen.

Despite that, despite that, ego is so strong that they try to go against such a power. The mind is allowed to. And then you feel guilty. So that’s even worse.

That’s not the way to ascend. Is too one-sidedness, because of the wisdom lacking, I think, in the people. So, we must understand; reality also means we must understand what’s the problem with us is. Also, that is reality. So that you correct your problems and then see what reality is and become one with that. But if you just see the reality, that Mother is such and such and She has this power, that power, and you don’t see yourself, then it won’t work out. If you have to reflect Me you have to face Me, with a clean mirror. I know it’s a difficult task. I know it’s a very difficult task in America. It’s not easy. I am leaving you. But again and again I come back here. Every time I declare, “Next time no more.”

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, Americans seem to, Americans tend to go to read books about someone and become disciples of people without ever having met the person.

Shri Mataji: That’s, we are having a, this translation of now, we are trying to translate this new book which is going to be published now, and we are inaugurating it by Dr Nagendra Singh is going to inaugurate the book in, in this Guru Puja. Just after the Guru Puja we are having inauguration. So that book we want to sort of translate and publish it in U.S. also, because our whatever “Advent” we have is, Gregoire wrote it in a frenzy that he has found the truth and this and that! But this one is a calm and quiet thing. So that can go to people and they can read it, because it’s all mental, you see. It is mental; whole thing is mental. They read it. They like it, mentally. “Oh, I like him.” How? That’s very common. “I like him. He looks nice, nice.” How? Then the choices are given you, what eyes are seeing that? There’s no light in the eyes. “I like him. I don’t like him. I see him like this. I see him like that.” It’s very common, you know.

We had- I must tell you, Mrs. [Grupal] was with Me, and I studied her very well. She travelled with Me, and I was shocked. She would always say, “I like him.” I said, “For what”? “He looks nice.” “Looks what?” I didn’t understand what was he looking like up there. “What is it? You don’t see the vibrations. What are you seeing?” “He looks like this and he looks like that and I like him very much.” And it’s so stupid that ultimately, we went to Delhi. She, of course, was very troubled some [there/day]; doesn’t matter. But whatever it is, she was sitting in the hall listening to Me, and she said, “Oh, I met a very nice man today.” She said, “Oh, one fellow was sitting next to me, with a big coat. Though he was wearing a big coat he was not smelling.” You see. I said, “All right.” She must be trying to smell him than to see his vibrations, perhaps. So just imagine, such an old lady like her, you see, she is at least five, six years younger to Me but has no wisdom, I don’t know. So, I said, “Who is this man?” So, I found out that he is a tramp, is a beggar in India, who comes to My program, I don’t know, sometimes and sits in the front, and he was sitting next to her. She liked him very much. So, how do you explain? Her likes and dislikes were so funny, you can’t imagine. It’s all mental, so mental, that I studied her well and then I told her, “It’s all your mental ideas.”

We went to somebody’s house, to stay, very nice, in Jaipur. So as soon as she went there, she said, “You haven’t got a dressing room with this.” I was quite amazed and I don’t see whether there is dressing room or not and all that. Like that, you see. Then she went to a hotel. I told her, “My house must be at least five times bigger than yours and much more comfortable. If I can stay here why can’t you stay?” “Oh, I felt I was uncomfortable.” She didn’t feel uncomfortable; she felt she was uncomfortable. Means she stayed in a hotel and she couldn’t come to My Puja. What you say to that? That’s the best part of it. Then I studied the thing. You see, she was looking at everyone who looks nice, who looks bad, this thing, that thing. And she looks so old now. All the time [Odin] was saying, “Poor her, look at this old woman.” I said, “Now she is six years younger to Me. All the time if you go on saying poor old woman, what about Me? You have no sympathies for My age? All the sympathies are gone for her?” Poor old woman, poor old... And for what? Because of this load unnecessary she’s looking so older. [Bent down], unnecessarily.

Sahaja Yogi: It seems tragic, Shri Mataji. We went to, looking for some material the other day, to [advertize] as a Sahaja Yogi, in a book store. And there was a young lady there, such a scholar, and they worship Shri Rama and then Rama Krishna people, were his wife, and his disciples.

Shri Mataji: And both were ignoramus. They couldn’t talk a word of English, both of them. They didn’t know anything. They could not explain anything. He used to dance like a mad man. That’s all.

Sahaja Yogi: He dressed, he used to dress in a sari.

Shri Mataji: He dressed in a sari. He dressed like a Muslim. He dressed like he was a dramatist, big dramatist. And now his disciples are suffering from cancer. That’s a very important thing.

Sahaja Yogi: Such a waste... Lot of noise [get people that].

Shri Mataji: And they think they it’s traditional in which, which traditional [film] you have heard Rama used to dance like frenzy or Krishna used to dance... in rhythm. It’s all right. Rama used to dance, not dance, Krishna, which is said, he would not dance himself but, you see, his image is like this, sort of raas, raas is this. If you see his dancing, his hands going like this, like a mad cap. He was a mad cap, no doubt. And all those who follow him are mad. Actually, in India when we went to a program in Solapur, an old man came. He said, “I hope your Sahaja Yoga is not going to make bad people.” I said, “Why?” He said, “My, my son who is a doctor follow the Ram Krishna and he has become mad.”

Sahaja Yogi: He was into the left channel, Shri Mataji?

Shri Mataji: Is a bhoot, nothing but a bhoot, what he is. And because Vivekananda was a right-sided, he was impressed by bhoots, you see. They are all impressed by bhoots. If I dress up like a bhoot your Americans will be very happy to see Me. To be like a beggar. I should be like a beggar, you know, all tattered and torn, walking like this. Then they will last accept, because egos like that kind of a thing. I mean, in New York I felt everybody walking like a beggar there. Torn clothes, you see, all these hanging there. You see, because they are right-sided they want to pretend that they are left-sided. It’s a big joke, you see, from here to there, there to here, like that, left to the right, right to the left.

First, they took to hippie-ism, because they want to be anti-culture, this, that. So, they went to the other side. Now they are taking to the drugs which are right-sided, like cocaine, this thing, that thing. So, which, you see if you play with your being so much, what can you do? You are destroying it completely and collectively! I mean, cocaine I don’t know how many, fifteen million people are taking cocaine in here. Fifteen million. Gone cases. They came to Me in Rome and they were sitting before Me, these cocaine takers. They all going to do, “Oho, all that happen.” I said, “Doesn’t matter. Just take it easy.” But it was rather funny for Me. I’d never seen anybody with the cocaine. But next day they were all right, normal. They have given up. But who is going to listen to as they will have military, they’ll have everyone, but nobody is going to listen to Me that you can give up ...

2:00:07 [THIRD CUT IN THE AUDIO]
2:00:09

Shri Mataji: The Anglo-Saxon’s brain won’t accept that you say you should not pay any money for Sahaja Yoga. I said, “For this high-level people there is no Sahaja Yoga.” They can’t understand that you can give Sahaja Yoga without paying any money. So I said, “Really? Then, you tell Me from your Anglo-Saxon’s brain how much should I charge them?” He said, “Millions.” I said, “Really? That’s it. Then you think millions will do compensating for what I give them?” Then he started thinking of it. That’s an ego trick going on, you see. They talk. I’ve seen them, in the other life of Mine, where I see in the parties and all that. “Oh, have you been to that guru?” “No, it’s rather expensive.” “Try. It’s good.” It’s like trying on a horse. Very superficial. Try something new, you see. New, new should be tried. A new wife, new clothes, new style, new everything, new cars, new things. You shouldn’t have anything of permanent nature. Everything should be tried new. Everything should become a junk within one year’s time.

Sahaja Yogi: It’s terrible.

Shri Mataji: How will they like something that is eternal, that is the Spirit? Changeless. The houses are built in these days, buildings are built in these days in such a manner that it is easy to dismantle that. That’s the basic.

Sahaja Yogi: It’s prefabricated everything they have. When they had the time, most of them do.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. Moreover, it is built deliberately like that you can dismantle it. Unscrew it and screw it up again. But why do all these monkey tricks? Why not have once for all something nice, sensible? That attitude is not there. Then how can you have eternal? How will you care for eternal life? These are all the problems. [Hindi] So now what is the next plan for you people? [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogini: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] So it is about four o’clock.

Sahaja Yogini: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: We can’t say. [Hindi] What time is the program?

Sahaja Yogis: Seven p.m. Seven o’clock.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] You don’t worry about the lunch part, yes? When I’ll reach there by four o’clock, as he said, maybe earlier, maybe later, I don’t know. Then I’ll take some rest. Then we’ll have the San Diego program and then day after tomorrow again we can have.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] God has to just see it, not to eat. I must put in it.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, just put one of the hands on her Sahastrara and a hand opened towards you...

Shri Mataji: A?

Sahaja Yogi: Just the other hand on the Sahastrara and one pointed towards You...

Shri Mataji: Say now.

Sahaja Yogi: Asleep.

Shri Mataji: How [may be as it is]? Take her a photograph. They are very sensitive children but what happens in this atmosphere? They get all ruined. Even realized souls I’ve seen, there are many realized souls who get lost. The atmosphere is funny. But what happened to Ursula and all that are not coming to the program?

Sahaja Yogini: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: No, she never came?

Sahaja Yogini: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: Maybe I may not be there. [Hindi].

Sahaja Yogini: But she wants to come Sunday night here. [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi – talking about Guru Puja]

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi – talking about Switzerland]

Sahaja Yogi: They’re coming to the puja, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Yes, you see. There are these Guru Pujas. Now, only three pujas this time [to give]. See, I think it is a, actually they are starting on, for Me of course I am going there earlier, because I have to go to Spain, and three days they have: Friday, that is the 28th of June, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. But Sunday morning is that opening ceremony, for which all the Sahaja Yogis will be there. And the Guru Puja is on the 29th morning. 29th morning and Thursday is the, and the Friday, Friday you all are arriving there, Friday. So, the seminar will be like Friday, part of it, and Saturday and Sunday morning is the opening of this thing. So, it’s more for the puja than for the seminar as such, but will be good idea. Puja itself, it’s great. And I’m going to Spain on Tuesday, Wednesday; then to Paris. Whole week is locked on like that. Then, you wanted Me to go to Switzerland in July. But I don’t know, for we have Switzerland earlier now, in June. So first I will go to Switzerland. [Hindi] I’ve brought such a lot of chocolates from India. They were all consumed.

Sahaja Yogini: And from London. They were all consumption.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Raja nahin rani?

Sahaja Yogi: Are va...

Shri Mataji: According to them, all the kings and queens in olden times were all saints or what?

Sahaja Yogi: They think that they, all Sahaja Yogis are royal descendants or something along that line. They, they believe that we both think, we the Sahaja Yogis, they do think, including themselves have taken birth again...

Shri Mataji: For what? For ruling others?

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, no, not for that. But they, they are attached to the idea that they were kings and queens in other lives, which is why she would give her a nice house and would be looked after very well so...

Shri Mataji: But that is because of yoga kshema vahamyam.

Sahaja Yogis: Yes. Bara bara hai. Bara bara hai.

Shri Mataji: [unclear], and that’s why. You got it because you were kings and queens. Then why did you get it last life? Logic.

Sahaja Yogi: What she thinks was, no, what disturbed her, Shri Mataji, is the fact that she spoke to new people in the same, making it public. Not someone’s thing is their business. When, when they speak it, have learned, then it becomes our business.

Shri Mataji: She should not speak. Here the women speak too much. It’s a funny country, you know. I’ve seen that if there’s an interview going on with the husband and wife, the husband will keep quiet and the wife will speak, all the time. I can’t understand. She’ll tell everything to the television man; everything she will talk. The women should not speak. It’s a funny thing that’s happening in all these countries.

Like, everywhere, like you see, this Chiang Kai-shek’s wife, she takes over. Say, you see, Mao’s wife, she takes over. It’s something, is a very, low-grade thing if, if a woman, you see, does not know how to contain within herself, shows that she is very low-grade. You see, a woman of quality will never come up like that unwanted, shows her self-respect. But it is very common, you see. The Mao’s wife was an ordinary woman. Chiang Kai-shek’s was another ordinary woman, you see. And then, they once they get big positions, they start talking so big. I mean, in India it is never done like that.

Like C.P. now, in his office and all that, people think that I am just deaf and dumb. I don’t talk, only whatever is needed to talk. But you just don’t talk over your husband, talk more than your husband. It’s absurd. What is the need? That doesn’t mean in any way, the women are less, are respected more. And if you try to compete with men like that, you see, that is why men become homosexuals.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s right, yes...

Shri Mataji: Really, I tell you I have had experience I must tell you now, that the aggressive women always make men, men, this thing, impotent. We have had the experiences in Sahaja Yoga. One man became impotent after marriage. I told the wife, of, I said, “You stop this nonsense of [aggression].” She talks, you see. When it comes to that, she’s the one who is talking. And the man became all right. They don’t behave like women and that’s what happens. What’s wrong in it? Why should you talk? I don’t understand. A man, it’s an extrovert; you are an introvert. Enjoy your introversion. It’s great. Without talking, if I could do, I would be very happy Myself. This country has really this problem the maximum, I think. Even when we were coming to L.A....

Sahaja Yogi: Right....

Shri Mataji: You see, this is a, we had taken a small little bag saying that we have to get down fast. So, the gentleman at the counter said, “All right, you can take it. It’s all right. It’s not so big.” But when we entered inside the airplane the lady there, she would not accept. She said, “No, no, this is big. This has to go down. This has to be this thing,” and all that. But there was one gentleman, he came forward. He said, “No, it’s not so big. Why are you troubling her?” And he went all the way down and brought the bag back. “If they have to get down early, why should you trouble them?” And the men also here become peevish, absolutely, just like mice. [Hindi]

You see, you know, in Germany, we got lost with this. In Germany we had three hundred people in the first ad hoc [gathering]. Can you believe it? Three hundred people? So, see, you must see the perspective also. Three hundred people got Realization. And hundreds of them came back. Hundred. Can you imagine?

Sahaja Yogi: Wow! That’s nice, yes.

Shri Mataji: And this boy, Hugo, he’s an Australian, but married a German lady. And German ladies are all like this, you see. And whatever he said, she tried to correct him, give ideas, and he was absolutely sort of cut short by her, completely. And all of them we lost, one and all, all the hundred we lost.

Sahaja Yogi: My goodness...

Shri Mataji: And they said it, that, “Here the woman rules, and we don’t want to be ruled by a woman”. Finished.

Sahaja Yogi: Wow.

Shri Mataji: And she is a very ordinary person compared to Hugo. He was very well-educated and very accomplished Sahaja Yogi.

Sahaja Yogi: Right.

Shri Mataji: But she dominates him. Same thing happened in Austria, Australia. And there was one girl called Daina, and her husband was this James, you see. When Warren came away, James said, “All right.” She, she used to dominate him always. So, he said, “All right, you look after the ashram.” And when I went there, they were all crying and weeping and saying that this woman is so horrid, you can’t imagine that. She said, “I will decide about Mother’s room.” She spent, I think, one thousand pounds developing that. Means that all kinds of things she has done. So, we had to send her away. Now she is back. She, she came to what place? We sent her to Strasbourg, near Ruth. And now she is better. And everybody has improved. Her children had become so weak, crying all the time, and the children have improved. Everything is all right now. I mean, you must behave in a normal way.

Supposing you put left to the right and right to the left, what will happen? There will be confusion.

Even Indian women can be dominating if they take to Western life. They do. But all their family style is upset. There’s no wisdom in it and no respect, nothing. They have no powers in them, nothing. They just talk, that’s all. I mean, you must understand, American women must understand, one of the big problems is the American woman, I think, very big problem. You should not compete with men. What is there to compete with them? You are much better off. You are like the Mother Earth. You can bear anything. You can do whatever. You are shakti. What is there to dominate a man, and to compete with a man? I mean, it would be like a horse competing with the man who rides the horse.

Better learn all these things. It’s important. Sahaja Yogis must understand. Yes, she talks too much, this lady. I will talk to her and I’ll tell her. In Sahaja Yoga also, when somebody comes in, let men talk and then women should talk. Big problem. Not that women are not intelligent, not that they are not that, they are much more. They are much more. They are the strength. They are the source. But why do you want to exhaust your source like this?

Because in this country these women were treated like that also. I don’t blame them. Because it’s important to have an economic this thing and all that. Apart from that, they asked Me, in the BBC, “Do they respect you as a woman?” I said, “Why not?” They said, “No, here, if a woman is a guru nobody is going to respect her.” So, I can’t understand. In India they would respect a woman much more. They said that, “Do they think you to be so reliable?” In India a woman is much more reliable than the man is, is much more solid than the man is, is much more steady than a man is. [Hindi]

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, very true.

Shri Mataji: A law will believe a woman more than they will believe a man in India. So, they asked Me opposite questions. I was surprised. “But do they respect you as a woman?” I said, “Why not?” [This] woman is to be more respected. I don’t know why it happens like this. Here the men must have dominated women very much. That’s why women are like this. It’s a reaction. But in India a married woman is very powerful. Most powerful thing is the married woman. Even Krishna has said it, that the Sati is higher than the Yati. [Hindi]

Krishna was killed by a Sati’s curse; you know that? You know? Remember that, yes? Gandhari, you see, was a blind, her husband was a blind fellow. So, she said, “If my husband is blind, I’ll also keep my eyes closed.” And she tied something on her eyes. “If my husband has no eyes, why should I have eyes? “All her life she kept her eyes closed. So, her eyes were so powerful that her son, when he came to her, she said, “All right, you just become naked completely and I’ll put my eyes on you and nobody can kill you.” But he was shy to become naked, you see, before the mother. So, he wears a little underwear. When she opened her eyes, her glance made all his body just like stone. But Krishna knew about it. So, he was killed by tearing off the body from the centre. That was the mistake.

2:19:24 [Cut in the audio]

2:19:30

Like, Sahaja Yogis must understand because you must have that knowledge, how to neutralize these images and projections that they have built. Because they are very formidable things, and unless and until you learn how to do it, they won’t be able to understand you. So, you have to be always as you say that “one up”. Now the first thing was the idea of illusion. Very interesting it is. Now for them, you see, there is nothing like evil, nothing like bad; everything is an illusion for them. So why talk of evil? Why talk anything against the gurus? Everything is an illusion. All right. Now let Me see how will you answer that. Who can answer? To a person who talks to you, how will you answer? Tell Me.

Sahaja Yogi: I think [we can] feel on Your vibrations and your hands is just not an illusion. Then it’s real that you can measure things.

Shri Mataji: No, no. But you see this is different. First, I mean you should start from the point at they are, still on arguing point. Not yet they have feeling any vibrations, or anything. So then, how will you tell them, if they say that is also an illusion? You can’t talk to them about vibrations to begin with. You all are at a very different level that you don’t understand. Must know that your levels are changed completely. You are talking from a level where they are not. So now, how will you tell them that the devils are there, and the satanic are there and there is negativity and all these things.

Sahaja Yogini: You get them to [log on and see OR lock and] how it’s working in our lives.

Shri Mataji: Oh, then going into big discussion. They’ll say that, “Oh, that we have seen.” You see, they all think that they can take their own decisions, they can have their own ideas. Another idea is that they will say that, “It’s all an illusion, you see. You talk about all these things, they’re illusions, finished.” Now they will say, “Look at your lives. All right, we look at our lives as illusion.” Then what do you say?

[Hindi] Ha, let’s have it.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, supposing You can tell their vibrations to prove it.

Shri Mataji: No, no, they haven’t felt the vibrations. They don’t know what is vibrations is. You see, you just confront them as they are. Vibrations are different things. They haven’t got it. They haven’t felt it. They have not known what it is. Then how will you discuss? You see, even you meet them. [Hindi] When you just meet them and you confront them, then what will you say?

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] what are the questions.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Here you see, Americans or anywhere, of course, Americans are the top-listed people in this that they have their own images and they have their own conceptions. Now one of the conceptions is that everything is an illusion, you see? So, how can we say that somebody is a bad guru or a good guru or how can you say that there are evil forces? There’s nothing like evil because it’s all illusion.

Sahaja Yogini: Now I can say that this is my experience with it.

Shri Mataji: No, no that’s very personal. Would be arbitrary. Because they never had any experience, nothing. Then, on mental level, they....

Sahaja Yogi: Maybe we have to go to the physical level with these people and tell them that it’s something like that they can quit your help. You can go down to their level and get their intention by help maybe, then peaceful, [unclear].

Shri Mataji: No, no, they are not willing to go on to that point. They are not going to ask you to give you Realization or anything. They will just, ha. Now let’s see.

Sahaja Yogi: You tell them to look at any other Scriptures that are accepted. You tell them to look to any other Scriptures whether they are Christians.

Shri Mataji: But if they don’t believe? Say, agnostic. I mean, we have all kinds of headstrong people over here.

Sahaja Yogi: What about the decorous, the way they [lead/lived] their lives and the examples [that/of] their disciples whatever they [did/were doing].

Shri Mataji: No, no, for them evil is not there. Even they are leading that life, is an illusion.

Sahaja Yogi: You can only judge, Mataji, from your experience, your own experience.

Shri Mataji: No, no, but supposing without that, [Hindi] without that on mental level, if somebody confronts you, what will you do? Supposing face to face you see somebody comes and says this to Me, “Oh, I think this is all illusion. Why should we worry about somebody’s bad or somebody’s? It’s all an illusion.”

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, can’t You tell what is from within because Your vibrations?

Shri Mataji: But they don’t want to listen to all that. They will say this is myth.

Sahaja Yogini: Who created the illusion?

Shri Mataji: Aaaa?

Sahaja Yogini: You could ask them if it is illusion, the illusion has to be created. There’s a Creator.

Shri Mataji: No, they will say, “Illusion exists because we are ignorant, but to me it’s an illusion.”

Sahaja Yogini: To become [more real]?

Shri Mataji: Aaaa?

Sahaja Yogini: To become [more real]?

Shri Mataji: He becomes the, he has to become the reality. But to him, you see, that’s also is an illusion.

Sahaja Yogi: Now You can please tell us, Mother.

[Laughter]

Shri Mataji: No, no, you have already. I’ve told you now. You have to tell because I’ve spent so much time with you now. Will you please tell what I told you?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know if I can repeat the same way You said to me, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: All right, I’ll tell. See, when you are just discussing something on mental level you cannot talk of something of an experience and all that. Nobody is going to listen to you. So, you have to go on the mental level itself, and there you have to convince a person. So, you should say that, say, a man is in a boat, all right? And he sees the waves of the water, is the ocean. So, to him it’s an illusion because it doesn’t affect him. All right? But supposing you are in the water, then it’s not an illusion. So, you have to achieve that state of mind where it becomes an illusion.

Another good example is, supposing you are watching the television, all right? Then there is a fire, you see. You are seeing the illusion. That fire doesn’t burn you. But supposing you are, there is fire already, will you put your hand to that? You won’t, because it’s not an illusion for you. So, you have to achieve that state of mind where the thing is an illusion, which you do not have. That’s what we are saying that you have to achieve that state of mind where it looks like an illusion. Then they will realize that their state of mind is at a lower level and they have to raise it to a higher level because it’s not an illusion for them actually. You see the point now? How to explain it. Very simple is that for a person who is in a boat, for him it is an illusion. But not for the person who is in the water.

This is one question. What was the- another question I’ve explained to you? It was a good question I explained to you, on mental level it was. So, I’ve said the second. The first one is not coming anymore. Aaa. Then which I explained to you, there’s another thing. It’s the idea of people is this, that you see I’ve asked somebody, “Why do you like Freud so much?” He said, “Because he was new.” So, to a Western mind anything new, “Oh, we should do it. Why not? It’s a new thing. Let us do it. If anything is new, then we should try. Why not try?” But trying whatever it’s new. So, for this, what will you explain?

You have to give a concrete example.

Sahaja Yogini: The example of a natural plant’s growth. Plants grow the same way as they always do. Human beings have the same natural way of growing. And...

Shri Mataji: No, no, but how will you say, “Don’t try anything new?” How will you say that? This is the mistake of our Western society is they tried everything new. Hippie-ism came, hippies. Now this cocaine has come, cocaine. Tomorrow something else; we have that. Paint your hair, paint your hair, paint your nose, paint your nose. [Shri Mataji is laughing.]

Anything new they want to try, “What’s wrong?”

[Conversation in Hindi]

Sahaja Yogi: Power of discretion “nahi hai” [No, it’s not].

Shri Mataji: Aaaa?

Sahaja Yogi: Power of discretion...

Shri Mataji: No, no, but how can you say to them if? You can’t be blunt with them. To say, “You have no discretion,” they’ll say, “You don’t have.” So, you can’t be blunt, but how cleverly you can tell them. Concrete example.

As I told you the other day, I think you missed the point. You have to say, “All right, plastic is new. Try plastic. You make a plastic flower, all right? And you get this flower. Which is, which is the right thing? This one. Why? Because it has evolved from a tradition. It has evolved from a seed into a tree, into the, and there you see a flower; it’s a living process. All right. But plastic is new, but it’s plastic; it’s dead.

They also tried plastic, used to have plastic everything, plastic this and plastic that. Now they are fed up with the plastic. They don’t know what to do with them. So, everything new, when you try at least see that it has some traditions; it has some basis.

Now all these people you are trying “shaktipar”, this, that, nonsense, you see, they have no basis. But it is never written in any Vedas, anywhere, in any Shastras; this word it is not there. This arunupaya, tarunupaya, karunupaya, all that, it’s not written anywhere. It comes suddenly from somewhere, from this Theosophical Society. This Theosophical Society is only hundred years old. All this nonsense is a hundred years old. We have never heard of such thing. Even Ram Krishna, dancing like that, you see, wearing a sari and all that, one has never heard of anybody doing like that. So, from, from where does it come? Suddenly a new thing, and all that new thing is accepted by the West. It is not described anywhere, not talked about, take to any Vedas, take to any Puranas. Anywhere it is not described.

Nowhere it is written that Kundalini it’s a dangerous thing, nowhere. Even Kabir who was, I think, about sixteen hundred years back has not said that. [Hindi] Mohamed Sahib ke baad aaye. [Hindi] Eight hundred years back. Mohamed Sahib has not said it sixteen years [unclear] back, sixteen thousand years back, sixteen hundred years back. Eight hundred years back Kabir never said it. Suddenly, I don’t know how the idea that Kundalini is very dangerous has come. So, all such new things have also come in India, like tantrism, erotic these things, and they went away. Because all such new things what people try go out of the circulation of your evolution. They are just thrown out. They are not accepted. In the same way, all these gurus will be thrown out. In these twelve years you have seen all gurus are exposed. You can see how wrong, what wrong they have done cause also it has effects, because if you take to something which is just new you see the effects of that, like plastic. When, when they said that first bomb fell in Singapore people had never seen bombs. It was a new thing. So, they came up to see, and they died. So, one has to understand that whatever we call new, may not be good for us. So, this is the second answer. All right. Now, another, third question; let’s see if you can answer this one.

Sahaja Yogis: We haven’t done too well so far.

Shri Mataji: So, trying everything new ventures, new things, one must have a traditional idea about that. Like a man who takes to new business suddenly, does not know anything about it, its tradition, its background, anything, suddenly takes to new. He is not going to be successful [Hindi]. In the same way, anybody comes out of the blue and says that you stand on your heads, why must you? You should ask, “Why should we? Why should we do this hassle? Why?” No, because it is new it’s acceptable. So, the two questions are clear-cut, I hope, in your minds now, very clear-cut should be. Now the third question, let Me think. Trouble is, in your presence I also don’t think. What is the third question you asked Me? Just trying to remember. You have forgotten all the questions. You only ask Me these questions.

Sahaja Yogis: Bad memory. It’s very difficult the thing when You are missing, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Third question is, I don’t remember what they did ask. No, I don’t remember third question is. I’ll remember later. Then I’ll ask.

Sahaja Yogi: Was it about the destruction, Shri Mataji? About the collective manifestation of Shri Kalki or...

Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?

Sahaja Yogi: About Shri Kalki. I asked in [unclear] about the big wok.

Shri Mataji: Ah, that one? That is only for Sahaja Yogis. We can’t tell all these things to others but for Sahaja Yogis. Like he asked Me a question that, “If this is the last chance, then what’s going to happen to the rest of them?” So I said, “In the beginning, of course, we’ll try to get them to India, do whatever is possible, but even if they don’t understand and they play games with themselves, then we have to cut off.” Then another world for them is created. And in that world they’ll live. They’ll have all human awareness, but as described by many people [and/that] it’s true they’ll have burning sensations in the body. Is described like this: a big wok will be there, there will be boiling oil and they’ll be put in that and fried, and they’ll have their awareness there and they’ll suffer all the pangs, and this is one of them only.

There are thousand and one styles they’ll be tortured. Horrible things they’ll have. That’s what you’d asked Me. Ha. Now, so the other question like that, that they will say that, “But, see we have advanced so much, you see.” They all think, “We are very advanced people and we are so developed and this and that. We are so much developed, and all thanks to our psychologists and thanks to our scientists and thanks to other people that we have come up to this level,” you see. Many people think that now they have achieved their freedom also because of Freud, so-called freedom. So, what’s wrong? What’s the answer?

Sahaja Yogi: So today it’s the question, do you feel free?

Shri Mataji: Do you?

Sahaja Yogi: Do I feel free? I feel free.

Shri Mataji: No, no, the question is this. No, no, the question is like this. I was just talking. The question, if somebody asks you, then what will you say?

Sahaja Yogi: I would say, “Do you feel free”? If they say that, “I feel free because Freud gave me my freedom,” I can turn around and say, “And you feel free?”

Shri Mataji: Then, they’ll say, “Yes”.

Sahaja Yogi: If they say, “Yes”, oh then, it’s wonderful because they have found a nice [terminal?]. But I don’t believe it.

Shri Mataji: That’s a, that’s a different point. You see, that’s not.

But how to convince them?

They will say that, you see, “We have advanced so much. India has not so much advanced. We are very well-to-do people. We have solved our material problem. We are developed people,” this and that. I mean, they are quite cocksure about themselves. That’s why they talk like that.

Sahaja Yogini: I would ask them how much peace and joy they experience in their own life.

Shri Mataji: Oh, you see that, they will say they do experience. Then what can you say? You see, these things cannot be proved you know, Ursula? You cannot prove it.

2:40:50
[FIFTH Cut in the audio]
2:40:55

That we had such miracles in India when I was doing up My house. I had made a staircase in India. We put up in the banisters that they call it banister, that’s the place I’ve measured and think about it, entirely thought. And we have one Sahaja Yogi, [Pradhan] who is a carpenter, who was trying to put it up. So, I said, ‘All right, I’m resting now, here, just try.”  And when I got up after half an hour it was still unfit. I said, “What happened?” “Mother, it cannot be fitted. It’s too long. Otherwise how can I fit?” “It cannot be fitted?” “No. How to cut it? Because if we cut it the pattern is not. How we’ll manage?” “I said, “Very simple.” I asked him, “Just hold it, this way, that way, just hold it and cut it with it.” See the wisdom part how it has fitted.” I’ve got it paid in India and measurement was not that I’ve taken like that, I’ve made up, you see.

Second thing that happened that we were, you see, we had to put some marble on the ground floor, the basement, and that can be of some sort of a style that cannot be put by anybody. And three, four Sahaja Yogis had come from Rome. And they said, “Mother, you must tell us something to be done. After all, everybody has worked and we want to do something.” I said, “Will you put the marble?” They said, “Marble we have never done.” I said, “All right, let’s try.” So, they took that thing. They said, “All right, we are putting the marble.” Then everything was upside down like that, you see, absolutely. So, I said, “Don’t you worry. It will all fit into a very wonderful face.” They said, “How?” I said, “Just stay out.” It was so badly off that nobody could walk, you see. It was so uneven, like, this way, that anybody walk this way, it will come out that way, it will. So, they sat down. I said, “You just sit here,” and I walked round and round, three, four times, three and a half times, I should say. And everything fitted, cracked into one. If you see the marble you won’t believe. And, but the best part was that they said that all the cement is over. “There is no cement. Very little cement is left and these shops are closed now for two days. We can’t get it.” I said, “You just go on pouring water.” There were needed two bags full of cement. But with that little cement, they did all the cement in. And it’s perfect, absolutely perfect.

And then they had a problem. They wanted to move a very big wardrobe, very heavy. Indian ‘s, you see, furniture is very heavy, rosewood. And they were all, “Haa,” all of them, [doing]. So, I said, “It’s very simple.” They said, “How?” I just put My finger like this. It just moved, you know, they were surprised.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Six of us trying to push this huge wardrobe, almost the length of that carving.

Shri Mataji: More than it.

Sahaja Yogi: We had about fifteen-foot-long, huge, and full of material, it wasn’t empty. We, we couldn’t move it. We wanted to get behind it because there was some path for lick in and we have probably been there for half an hour, couldn’t move it, and Shri Mataji came in and said, “What are you doing?” We said, “We are trying to fix this lick, Mother. We were trying to move this.” As, as I saw She, She pushed Her little finger.

Shri Mataji: No, no, this one. That is too much. This is sufficient. Had it pushed and they were surprised, how it has moved. So, you see, it is nothing difficult. It’s all possible. You all can do it also. Not difficult. I want all of you to have all the powers that are possible. But first thing, heart. Clean your hearts. Dedication in the hearts should be complete. There should be no reservations. If you have reservations, these things won’t work out. They’ve got houses, they have got jobs, they have got money, everything like that. Then they start thinking, “We must be kings and queens to get it.”

[Laughter.]

Sahaja Yogis: It’s a joke. It’s a joke whom I laugh.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] It is such. So many miracles that you can’t imagine! The best one is now, I think, among all of them, we got aid for forty-two acres of land in Vaitarna, forty-two acres of land, surrounded by three rivers. We can say one, one is a brook, another is a river, another is the big Vaitarna, for only eighty thousand rupees. This is the best I could say. I can’t go any further with it. Like Rome, Rome, Rome, they wanted to have a place for ashram, and they said, “Who will give us an ashram place? Nobody gives on rent, you see. They have, they won’t give it to so many people, this, that.” I said, “Try. You give an advertisement or something.” They gave an advertisement. And one fellow appeared saying that his wife is dead and he doesn’t want to stay in the suburbs. He wants to move to Rome city. So, he has a house. If they want, they can have it. So, it was taken in, they said, only one person’s name. This fellow never asked, “How many are going to stay there? How many are going to pay for it? How you are going to pay? What is your guarantee?” “Nothing.” He said, “Take the house.” First, he said a price, and somehow or other I don’t know what happened to him that he said, “All right, for half the price”. And it’s so cheaply they got it. It’s a huge hall with eleven bedrooms on it and four bathrooms and I think two WC, and outside house are at least? how many acres of land?

Sahaja Yogini: Two acres, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Extra.

Sahaja Yogi: Wow.

Shri Mataji: Same with Hounslow house. They got a house in Hounslow. They bought it. And other house which was semi-detached you see, the neighbour’s. So, they thought if they can get the neighbour’s house, then they can get a land together and they can get a nice hall built there. So, Gavin said, “Mother, I have to sell this house and that house was donated to Me by the Mother.” I said, “Baba, I don’t want any house, anything to Me. You better use that money for some ashram.” So, he said, “Mother, but the house is not yet selling and the other neighbour is not willing to give us.” I said, “Sell the house first.” The day the house was sold the neighbour who had refused to sell the house to him, herself came to him and said, “Do you want to purchase the house?”

[Laughter]

2:49:02 [Cut in the audio]

2:49:13

One day, Kuli this Tony, the first Sahaja Yogi, he came to Me and he said, “Mother, I’m little running short of money.” I said, “Should I give you?” He said, “No, no, I don’t want any money from You.” I said, “All right, you will get it.” He went back to his flat. So, there he found two thousand pounds in base floor. And these were, these two thousand pounds were the notes of 1964 because they celebrated the anniversary of, hundred years anniversary of Shakespeare and they printed on Shakespeare’s life, you see. All the notes were that.

I didn’t steal any money.

Shri Mataji: [Laughter]

That’s how it works out. If you are having any problem, then you must know there must be something wrong. Better meditate. Better do something to cleanse yourself and things will work out. Maybe your left Nabhi is catching, right Nabhi catching, maybe something catching. So, work it out. If you are clean in Sahaja Yoga it will work out. All right.

And we have problems, we have solved problems of such a dimension that you can’t believe it. Rajesh’s factory was on strike for one and a half year.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: Yes. And I went to India and Rajesh said, “Mother, what to do about this factory? I don’t know what to do. I’m going mad with it.” I said, “Doesn’t matter. Is going to help you very much.” He said, “How?” I said, “It is going to help Sahaja Yoga and it is going to help us.” He said, “How?” I said, “You do one thing. You decide to have a Ganesha’s temple there built, Ganesha’s temple. In Maharashtra Ganesha’s temple means everybody is finished there.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] So, he had a Ganesha Puja arranged there. All the labour class people came for the Ganesha Puja. Because for Maharashtrians, you can’t avoid Ganesha Puja there. And the factory started. Factory started and when they saw Ganesha Puja being done actually in the family, Rajesh thought that nobody would like to come because they are all Jains. So, the ladies in the house said, “Why didn’t you call us for the Puja? Everybody is coming so we are coming.” So, they all came for Puja. And in the Puja when these people came they said that, “We want to have our Realization.” So, most of the labours, they have got Realization.

Sahaja Yogi: Wow.

Shri Mataji: Now other factory people where the factories have closed now because of strikes, want to have Realization. So, we’ll solve the problem of Bombay city of all the strikes and we’ll restart all the machineries which have been stopped for years now.

Sahaja Yogi: [Hindi]

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] See, Dutta Samanth was so powerful in his thing. Now these people from his factory don’t want to see his face. He is finished. Next election he cannot win.

Sahaja Yogi: He’s a goonda.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Sahaja Yogi: Course Rajesh has given him Realization, he’s a goonda.

Shri Mataji: Ha? He’s finished now. You see, some people are to be finished and some people are to be given Realization. Everybody can. Best was Warren’s experience. Did he tell you?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, the car run without the gas.

Shri Mataji: Ha. About that.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: So, all these things are happening, there are blessings, but we must also be able to receive that blessing. As he was saying he got his Green Card without his wife.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Karan, really.

Shri Mataji: He’s sitting there.

Sahaja Yogi: Is really a miracle.

Shri Mataji: [Hindi] So now, you should think, you see, about what questions these people are capable of asking and how will you answer them. That’s how you’ll be prepared. Because it’s not sufficient to be Realized, it’s not sufficient to be established, but you must have the complete know-how and you must have the complete knowledge about Sahaja Yoga.

Otherwise, you see, anybody comes in, “Go to Gavin”. You should be able to explain. You should be able to talk about them. But if you are still busy with only your personal problems, how will you do that?

I must tell you another miracle because I remembered of Yogi Mahajan. Yogi, poor thing, you know, he’ll plan and land himself with the difficulties. So, he’s told Me, “We have got this book published Mother, such good photographs of yours, it’s like a Madonna, and I’ve put that thing around You.” I said, “All right. Let’s see what is done.” So, when I saw the photograph I said, “What’s this nonsensical photo you have? From where did you get it?” So, he said, “You don’t like?” I said, “See the vibrations. That’s the main point. Is a horrible photograph. This is, this is not Me. Somebody has taken the photograph. So, he’s not all right.” [He touched it]. He said, “Mother, but I’m all right.” “I’ll tell you just now, in one minute who must have taken it,” I said. “Jane, Gavin’s wife. Has she taken the photograph?” He looked at Me, so golly face [unclear]. “How do you know, Mother?” I said, “I can tell you.” “This Jane brought it to Me and gave it to Me. It’s My photograph you’re publishing, it’s [inaudible], how do I tell you?”

Sahaja Yogini: This is the one in the centre?

Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?

Sahaja Yogini: The picture of the, the bristol [unsure] of centre?

Shri Mataji: Absolutely hopeless. Doesn’t matter, Celine. You see, for bhootish people may be all right.

[Laughter]

Like we went to Scotland and I saw a photograph. We went to have our lunch somewhere and I saw My photograph, I said to [inaudible]. “Who’s done this one?” They said, “This is the same as came from Australia.” I said, “This is not the same. It’s something else.”

So, I said, “Now, I’ll tell you who did this. So, it’s a copy of the same.” They said, “Yes, it’s a copy.” So, I said, “I know who has done it.” They said, “Who?” I said, “Hillary.” We telephoned to Gavin. I said, “Did Hillary send you this photograph?” “Yes, Mother. And she wouldn’t allow me to show You. She said, ‘Now, we are in a hurry. Let us print it.’” But that, that photograph had such bhoots in it, that all the bhoots of Scotland came for My program.

I was fed up with them and everybody disappeared also with the same speed.

He gets stuck with people who really give him a good experience also, Yogi Mahajan. Now he’s improving.

[Laughter]

Sahaja Yogi: Little better?

Shri Mataji: Like we had this Hari. Now this should not be on the tape. It’s all personal. Mister Hari, the great.

[Cut in the audio.]

Otherwise then now what are you doing? “We are feeling guilty.” I said, “Now please don’t commit sin of [inaudible] feeling of the left Vishudhi. [Hindi] They feel guilty. Why don’t you come in the centre? Why do you feel guilty about it? Cleanse it. This is what you should do.”

[Conversation in Hindi]

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi