“Knowledge of the Divine,” Public Programme, Caxton Hall, London (UK), 28 October 1979.

Every time I face the new people, I have to give an introductory talk and Sahaj Yogis get sometimes impatient about it. But we have to understand that this is the knowledge of the Divine and those who have not known about it are to be told. And those who have known should know that there are many things they have not known, which they have to know. Still there is a lot to be known.

Supposing I tell you all about it and you do not get your Realisation, you do not get your yoga, you do not get your connection with the Divine then it is useless. Talk will remain talk. You may verify it; you may find it the same written in many scriptures. Many saints have told you the same thing [but] it has no use.

The knowledge, gyana, is useless without yoga, without the union with the Divine.

When you get the yoga, also, when you are realised, you get your Realisation, and I do not give you the knowledge, then your Realisation is also useless.

I have seen in this great country many realised-souls are born. They live as realised-souls, they don’t know what are they; they act as spiritualists, they call themselves, whatever people call them. But they are not aware that they are realised-souls! They commit mistakes, they go onto wrong paths, get confused about their Realisation.

So, it is necessary also to know what have they got, what does it mean, how to use it, how to go ahead with it and how to develop.

Many people who have been here in this hall have got Realisation. Once they get Realisation, they feel so satisfied about it that they just don’t come next time. And sometimes, after a year or two years they appear saying that, “Mother, we are again lost.” So, to get Realisation is the most important thing, absolutely important because if you do not start your car, you do not move. You [may] go on describing everything that, “Now here we are on Leicester Square. Now we are here!” But you are not there, you’re just talking.

The car has to move first, has to start and when the car has started then you must also know the roads, how to go. Then the car starts and bumps into something, then you feel that, “What has happened? Our car has started!”

So, these are two things: one is the yoga – is the Realisation, through awakening of your Kundalini and the other is the gyana (knowledge), which is the part which gives you complete knowledge and mastery over your powers.

For example, you go to a house and the lady gives you the keys, “All right this is your house. You use it as you like it.” Say, I come to England and somebody gives me the keys. I don’t know how to use a washing machine! And I don’t know how to use the oven! Though she has given me the keys, I have entered into it, I should know how to use it. I should know also what are the don’ts and what are the dos.

Before entering into the house, what’s the use of knowing, also? Of course, it may help you, if you have a little knowledge about it. But you cannot practise anything because you have not entered inside it. The machinery is not before you, you are not facing it.

So, in Sahaj Yoga one has to first get into [the] Self-realised state and then should know thoroughly how to use that state, or how to be in that state, how to manifest it, improve it and stabilise it. For this you cannot go into courses – that is for definite. “Should we do fourteen courses outside?” Has nothing to do with Sahaj Yoga. You have to get the keys.

Secondly, you cannot pay any money for it, you cannot purchase it.

It is very difficult for human beings to understand this part: that you cannot pay for it. That is one place where you cannot pay and purchase.

It is not that you are going to judge the Sahaj Yoga, but Sahaj Yoga is going to judge you. It’s just the other way around.

It is not that you are going to purchase Sahaj Yoga, but Sahaj Yoga has to purchase you and has to accept you.

It is very easy to do any other nonsense: just you pay the money and you are there enrolled, permanently. You become the member of any group, very easy. And you can club together and be satisfied, “Oh, we are this and that!” You can brand yourself as anything but not as Sahaj Yogis, unless and until you have got it.

It is that essential, that authentic, that intrinsic, that innate, that you have to be that. You can be an Englishman if you get a British passport. You can be a director anywhere if you can qualify for that. But you cannot be a Sahaj Yogi by doing anything that you have been doing to achieve for worldly things or worldly positions, worldly possessions.

We see so many such phenomena in our life that we cannot see or cannot manoeuvre, cannot do such as a flower manifest into a fruit. As we cannot germinate a seed, we cannot do this living thing, which has to be done by Divine power and not by human power.

Once you get it, the Divine power starts flowing through you, then you can also charge the dynamo. There is no false certificate that can be given. You may be having a son who is not realised: you may stand on your head or do whatever you please, you just cannot certify unless and until he has got it.

It is such a strange thing, so unique. But do you know: this is what you are seeking. The rest of the things can be sought. This is the thing which can only be requested for, to be prayed for, to be asked for. You cannot demand it. Only the grace of God can work it out.

Today I happened to read Bible, part of it, and I was amazed how John has revealed so many things about chakras and this; but of course, in a very mystic language. He calls chakras as the plug/plaque in his dream he saw, and the deities as the angels. He has also described the Realisation. It is so wonderful to read it. But only after Realisation you’ll understand, because it’s a very, very deep writing and you cannot read much from it – mystical sounding, vague words.

Now, we are here to seek ourselves. Everybody is floating an enterprise like that, everybody is saying, “Oh, we are here to help you to seek yourself.” I may be one of them, too. Why should you believe me, in any case? The first thought that will come into your mind is, “Why should we believe Mataji?” If you believe in me blindly, it is not going to help me at all. Neither it is going to help me, if you are going to deny. Like a scientist just keep your eyes open, keep your mind open, because this is what you are seeking, not just in this lifetime. You have been seeking for ages and unless and until you get it you are not going to be satisfied, you are not going to find your fulfilment. This has to happen to you.

I don’t know how far Gavin has been able to explain to you what to expect out of Sahaja Yoga. But it is the actualisation of this experience I’m talking about, which has to work out.

Here you see they have drawn a human being, as he exists, with his Divine instrument within himself. These are the patterns of the energies which are undercurrent of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system.

The sympathetic nervous system is managed by two channels within us. One, on the left hand side that you see with the blue line, is the power to desire: is called as ichcha  shakti. And the other one, on the right hand side, with the yellow line, is the power to act, which is called as the kriya shakti. The first one is called as the ichcha shakti. First one has to desire and then he acts. And these two powers exist within us as left and right sympathetic nervous system, which doctors can see outside the spinal cord, but this is inside the spinal cord and inside the cranial bones, inside the brain as you can see there. These all can be related to the gross nervous system that doctors can see. But they are subtle energies within us.

The one which runs on the left hand side is connected with the seventh chakras down below; or you can call it the first chakra. This gives us desire to live and also desire to die. All desires give us emotions, it gives us existence and when we deny our existence, then it gives us death.

The other one is the power of action for which we use our physical being and our mental being. So, this represents our physical and mental being.

The central one is called as the path of knowledge: gyana shakti.

But the knowledge we know of is very different from the knowledge I am talking about. I mean the subjective knowledge that we have achieved as human beings through our evolution. For example, a human being is much higher in his awareness than the animal. His awareness is the thing that he has achieved through his evolution, which is built in him, which acts subjectively. For example, supposing you take a rose flower: you know it is a rose flower and you enjoy it. But for an animal, it makes no difference whether it is filth or a garden, it can pass through it most unawares.

So, your gyana shakti means your awareness or your knowledge – knowledge that is awareness, human awareness – is developed to a point and still has to develop more, has to manifest more. It has to have another dimension. Because of a certain gap in between – you can see the central line; this green gap gives you the Void – gives you an awareness which is not yet complete.

The completion of human awareness can only be achieved if he reaches the absolute point. Supposing you have not reached the absolute point then whatever you are talking is relative. Relative to relative creates confusion. So, the idea of righteousness, idea of holiness, idea of sin, everything is relative.

You have to reach that absolute point by which you judge whether it is holiness or not, whether it is sinful or not. That we have to reach. That absolute point is within us, placed in our heart, which is called as the Spirit and is the reflection of God Almighty. In Sanskrit language it is called as Atma.

That Spirit resides within us, it watches all our activities, it knows everything about us and it informs the lowest chakra there, which records everything that we do – all our conditionings, all our ego-trips – to that three and a half-coiled energy, which we call as Kundalini. ‘Kundalini’ means coils. This is the Kundalini, as called as the Serpent power.

Now, horrible things have been said and written about Kundalini. When I read, I mean when I even heard about it, I was really shocked about the naive description of it! I’ve always said that it is like a villager going in the city and putting both the hands into the plug and saying that, “Electricity I know, don’t tell me about it! You see what happens, it gives you a shock and you just fall back and you break your neck.”

Those who do not know about Kundalini have written about Kundalini because this is the only area where nobody can control you. You can write anything about God, against God, or do whatever you please, who can check you? There is no law which forbids. You can write about Kundalini whatever you feel like. She is your Mother. She has been born with you several times. She is the one who is going to give you Realisation. And do you think your Kundalini is going to harm you by any chance? Is going to torture you? Is going to trouble you?

And if you have to achieve the highest through the Divine love of God, is it going to be torturesome? Did you get this nose and these eyes and mouth and everything that you have as a human being out of some tortures? You never even felt how it has happened! How gentle it is, how kind it is! It is your Mother who is sitting there waiting for a moment to rise.

Now the whole thing sounds very poetic to a scientific mind. But poetry is also a part of human beings. If it sounds poetic. It is the poetic work, of the Kundalini. God is not only science; he is also love, beauty. He is not only dry truth; He is also joy. He is joy. He’s joy, because he is truth, He’s truth because He’s beauty.

So, when the Kundalini rises within you through these six centres that are shown here, it pierces this area, which is called as the fontanel bone and gives you Self-realisation. This is called as baptism. You cannot go to a theological college and become a Baptist. Nobody can brand you a Baptist. You have to be realised. This fontanel bone area has to be pierced through by the Kundalini, then only you become one with the All-pervading Power, with that subtle power. It has to happen; this germination has to take place within you. You are still at a seed stage and just by branding a seed you do not become a tree.

So, it has to happen within us, and has to happen beautifully, and spontaneously, because it is a living process of evolution.

We have evolved into human beings from amoeba: nobody has done anything about it. And we are not going to do anything about becoming that for which we are made. Somebody who has created this machinery is going to put you through to the mains if he wants to use it. But in between there’s a little problem. Everything was ready, just perfect, just to be connected to the mains. But the instrument was given the freedom to choose.

That is important for evolution, very important, that you should be given the freedom, a complete freedom to choose whether it is right or wrong. Nobody can force that onto you. In all your freedom you have to choose whether you want to enter into the Kingdom of God or not. Nobody’s going to force you there, to enter. It has to be your desire; it has to be your asking. And for that freedom has been given to use these two powers of your desire and of your action which gives you the idea of your accelerator and of your brake: to know how to drive your own car, so that the master behind it hands over the keys to you and car to you.

It was necessary for you to learn these two powers, to be managed. But in your freedom and in understanding yourself you have committed mistakes; you have bumped your cars too much. It was said that: keep in the centre, do not go too much left or to the right or you’ll get into bumps. Either you went into the left or to the right. And when you tried to correct your right you went into the left, to another extreme. To correct to the left you went to the right. By going to the extremes, you will be bumping your car. And this is exactly what has happened to us – doesn’t matter. The car has to be repaired; it has to be done.  A little patience can work it out. There’s nothing to get annoyed with oneself.

When the car starts it goes very fast. Then you should know how to slow it down, how to organise it. Then you have to become the authority, yourself, of discrimination. I don’t have to tell you that this is not good or that is not good. How is it possible? Because you become one with the Divine, you become one with the Primordial Being, with the Great Being, with the Akbar, and you start acting according to that. A subjective manifestation of your awareness takes place by which you understand what’s wrong with you and what’s wrong with others.

It is so precise and correct. You just feel on your hands, on your fingers as shown, all the centres that are within you, which are created out of different elements. Immediately you know what is in imbalance, what is more, what is less, left is more or right is more, what is wrong with you. Even a born-realised child, say, of two years who can talk, can tell you what’s wrong, because it’s subjective. You start feeling it: this is happening, that is happening.

All this understanding comes to you because it is Self-knowledge. But when you know about yourself you also know about others, because you jump into collective consciousness. You ‘jump into’, I say. You become collectively conscious. It is not that I say, “We are all brothers and sisters,” have United Nations for it and use it for giving jobs to everyone. It’s not that way. It’s an actualisation that takes place: you just become. Jolly well you’ll have to feel it. You cannot get rid of it. It becomes your awareness. You just feel it and that’s how you correct it.

Everybody is a part and parcel of that Great Being. As this finger can feel this finger; and as, when it is hurt, this finger goes to sooth it, in the same way the whole is more important than individual.

So, when we are seeking our wholesomeness we have to know that, only through Self-realisation, by becoming one with the Self, you are going to get it.

Talks, talks, talks – we have had many. Let’s have the real and get it. You cannot argue about it. It happens, especially in this country I have seen, because you are great thinkers and analysers. Everything you try to analyse. But this is beyond your thinking. You go beyond your rationality. Because rationality is limited and you have to be triggered into something unlimited, so you have to leave that. You have to go into that space. You cannot explain it by thinking. But then, when it starts flowing through you, you use your rationality to understand, “Why this finger is burning?” It is decoded in Sahaj Yoga.

In Sahaj Yoga you know all the decoding of all the signals you get from the Absolute. Your computer starts working. But who has to decode the computer and the numbers? All that is explained. That is what you have to learn, that is known as gyana.

After Realisation what one has to do? Also, a point comes up sometimes. Supposing, I have enlightened this one (candle), now what have we to do? Is to give light. What a question! When you are enlightened, after enlightenment what do you do? Is to give light, that’s all. That’s your job, is to give light.

But how to manoeuvre it, how to organise it – that’s the thing you have to learn, for which I’m willing to work very hard. And everything that I say, you have to verify it, and you have to see for yourself. After Realisation, if you start doubting – we had people who started doubting – and what are you doubting here? I don’t want anything from you. I am sitting here just to give, not to take anything, then what are you doubting about?

They start doubting and the progress is much less. But some people are of very high calibre in this country, are of a very great high calibre, and once they get it, they just get it like that.

You will be amazed, there was one gentleman who went to someone and was ditched and deceived and absolutely he was looted: he just saw my photograph. There are, Gavin himself has got his Realisation only through my photograph. There are many here who have got it through my photograph only. But they are people of calibre.

So, I said that Sahaj Yoga is going to judge you and you are not going to judge Sahaj Yoga: you cannot. You cannot measure it. It is an ocean. Just enjoy it and be your Self. It’s a gift for which you have been asking, so just take it. It’s absolutely free, you cannot pay it and don’t think on these hopeless worldly ways. It is the love of God, the grace of God, which one has to receive. Just enjoy it. Just have it. That’s what it is and we should work it out.

Now I had a system, especially in these countries, that people can ask me questions. But it happened like that, that questions were asked by extremely negative people mostly. I would answer them, they would take everybody’s time who were anxious to have Realisation. And then just as soon as we started, “All right let’s have the Realisation,” the person would get up and go away. It’s common practice. The person is not at all interested in Self-realisation, seems to be more interested in questions. And, sort of, you give more chance to a person who is negative and useless than to people who really want Realisation.

Now, if there is a question, I still would like you to ask me, no doubt, but be sensible and considerate.

Thank you very much.

May God bless you all!

Be considerate when you ask a question, but ask. It’s nice to ask, you know, because I have no questions, that’s the problem. Not to fear, please ask the question.

Lady from the audience: Have a question.

Shri Mataji: You have been always asking, I am not going to allow this time. She is useless. You asked me. Somebody else should ask me. Her questions are always like that, has no meaning. You’d better get your Realisation, perfected.

Anybody else? Ask.

She has been every time asking questions, but you don’t want to perfect your Realisation. You must perfect your Realisation.

Yes please. Yes, ask me, loudly.

Seeker: I’ll try not to be negative but I’ve tried a few different organisations and I’ve searched quite a lot of different organisations

Shri Mataji: I can see that. All right

Seeker: and always I come to the same question that people who are interested in truth, how could they come to such an organisation as yours?

Shri Mataji: I have no organisation. We have no membership. This is not an organisation.

Question: But...

Shri Mataji: Now, I’m very happy that...Please, sit down, all right? I know. He is a seeker. He has been to many organisations. There has to be. It is written already in the Bible, there have to be many like these, you see, coming up. All right? But first of all, I have requested you that here we are not selling anything, to begin with. We are not selling. What are you going to lose in any case? Maybe, your ego a little bit, maybe. Because we are identified with our ego, we think our self is our ego, you see; which may not be pampered [here] also, as in another organisation. I have been, seen people who are very honest, they go to other organisations and they find that only their ego is pampered and their pockets are being vacated. No, that’s not here.

Now, I also do not guarantee that you will get your Realisation definitely. It’s like germination. If it works, I’ll be the happiest person and you’ll be the happiest. If it doesn’t work, please come again, we’ll work out. So, again if you have started judging about it, it won’t work out. There are fifty per cent people here who are realised people and they know your problems. They haven’t given me a single pie (1\192 Rupee), nothing!

But if you come here, you have come in your own right, because you are a seeker and I respect you for that and I love you for that. And I am here for you. Not in London. I didn’t come to London for that, I came by chance. You know that my husband was appointed here to this U.N. thing, he was elected, and I had to come here. But also, this is God’s desire that I should be with you because there are so many seekers! So, I am with you here.

If you have been to many organisations and many thugs also, I must tell you very, very frankly that you’ll have problems much more than anybody else will have. It’s going to be difficult to give you Realisation, because all these organisations do spoil your Kundalini and your chakras. I’ve yet to meet one organisation which doesn’t spoil. Except for, there are some real people who live in the forests and they have disciples. But I can make them out: if they are coming from the real gurus, I immediately know.

But no organisation, so far, I have known, who has even kept your instrument intact. They have spoilt your Agnya, they have spoilt other centres, which are so vital, just to get some money out of you. I don’t know why they have done it.

I know you are tired of seeking but no more you should repent about it. But if you have been to other gurus, you must tell us, because we’ll have problems correcting you. Even if you read the books, even if you just think of them or even if you have a photograph, it acts negatively; it’s a problem. So, I request you to let us know if you have been to any guru. I wish I could tell you the experiences we have had from people who went to other gurus, and the things that we had to correct. And most of the Sahaj Yogis are here who have been, at least half of them or most of them have been to some gurus somewhere and have known this, that there is a problem. Doesn’t matter! If your Kundalini is preserved even by them, I’ll be very thankful.

All right? It’s correct now?  What’s it?

So, should we start now? Let us see how it works out, hmm? Hmm.

Now, put your hands like this.

One has to be extremely positive, after Realisation, about it. If you go down you will move very slow. It is like three paces forward and two paces backwards. When you will reach? You’ll never reach! Before that, I do not ask for anything. But after that you have to do it.

Secondly, when you put your hands towards me, as shown there, all these fingers have got the centres, the chakras, dormantly placed on these fingers: one, two, three, four, five, six and seven, on the left, on the right; left sympathetic and right sympathetic. So, when you are placing towards me, like as you place towards this one, it radiates heat. In the same way, I radiate this Divine love. You will also radiate when you will be realised, when you will be enlightened. So, when you put your hands towards me you take this radiation within yourself. It goes within yourself onto these.

There are two very important chakras, which work it down on your, these, two lines and inform the Kundalini through the lower chakra to rise. And you can see with your naked eyes the pulsation of Kundalini in some people, who’s this chakra is catching. With naked eyes you can see. You can see even the rising of the Kundalini. If you have the stethoscope you can feel the throbbing going up. When it reaches here, it throbs here and then it stops. That is the time you are realised.

But some people have lots of imbalances. Now, how do we remove them? Supposing the ego is too much on this side, there is no space here. So, you have to push down the ego. If the superego is too much, you have to push down the superego.

So, those who are realised people, also radiate this, this Divine love, this integrated force of vital energies and they, through their vibrations, manoeuvre it by giving these radiations, they take it down. You can also do it. You have to learn, only, the art. And then they raise the Kundalini, so the Kundalini starts.

If there is an obstruction you can see the Kundalini going there. For example: somebody has a liver trouble; you can see the Kundalini going there and throbbing. If you have the kidneys trouble, the Kundalini will go there; poor thing will supply to the kidneys and then come up. That’s why the first thing that will happen to you is, that physically you will be cured. We have definitely cured cancer. The president of India (Neelam Sanjiva Reddy) who was suffering from cancer, was cured by me. If you want you can write to him and ask. That cancer can only be cured by Sahaj Yoga, by nothing else, is also another fact. But doesn’t matter; don’t get too frightened about it.

Just now, let us have the Kundalini moving. Let us see if it starts. It has to start. By anything you cannot do it. Only through Divine radiation you can do it. But (break in recording) I have seen horrible Kundalinis, I have seen, in doing this work. People are not aware of it: what we have done to harm ourselves, people are not aware and that’s why sometimes it takes time, doesn’t matter. As I have patience and love for you, please have patience for yourself because you are a seeker. You are a seeker of truth and that’s why I’m here.

Now please put your hands like this close your eyes.

And you have to put your feet on the ground. The reason is that the Mother Earth sucks in lots of our problems.

Now the people who are realised also can help me, they are just like my hands. You have to also become my hands. But when they move their hands and all that you are not to get frightened of them. They are the people who are salvaging you! They have to help you. If they know swimming, they have to fetch you to the shores. They have to extend their hands to you. Don’t be frightened of them. Come on the shores and you are going to do the same thing. There’s nothing to be frightened. They are not going to do anything. Might be, they might feel, if you are realised or not.

So, just put your hands like this. Now, you have to close your eyes. Close your eyes, please.

But some cannot close their eyes because the eyelids will flicker. So, please open your eyes, in that case.

If your eyes can be easily closed without any flickering, then keep them closed. That’s a very good sign.

Now, if you feel anything like little shaking in the hands or anything like that, then open your eyes. Nothing external should happen. If it happens, then open your eyes.

Even if you feel heat in the hand, you’ll not feel much, but if you feel slightly even, which you think is little unbearable then open your eyes.

When you close your eyes most of you will find you have no thoughts in your mind already. This is called as Nirvichar Samadhi, is called as thoughtless awareness. It’s this samadhi, it’s this state which is achieved after thousands of years of meditation, as they say. It’s the most difficult thing, agreed. But there could be someone for whom this could be only just a play...(End of recording)