Public Programme Day 2 Athens, Greece, May 25, 1989

Shri Mataji: All right. Yesterday they spoke to you about the different centres we have within ourselves. These subtle centres were discovered thousands of years back by great saints. And Socrates also has talked about the gods which reside within us. And the knowledge about it was existent long time back. But there were two types of seeking going on alongside - two types of seeking. One was the devotion on the left hand side, and on the right hand side was the, we can say the intellectual. And devotion came to people because they felt there is something beyond this human life which thought of the creator - being there. And that we call as bhakti - is the devotion.

But in the West it came as devotion to incarnations like Christ. That was...

Aside: Is there a problem?

Yogi: People want to come in and they don’t let them in, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: See they can sit in the centres, after all they are seekers. You see. They can sit in the centre here easily, it’s not so difficult. Could be. Poor things. What’s happening with them?

I am sorry for this that people cannot - all of them cannot come inside.

Translator: Shri Mataji, there are some empty places behind. We can tell the people. Somebody greek person can tell the people outside.

Shri Mataji: I’m sorry for this, this hall is just small, you see. No. No not here - outside. You see, the hotel management.

Yogi: they say ‘fire security’ – they cannot admit more people in. 400 people is maximum, 500 people are inside...

Shri Mataji: That fire will not be, could not be but we could open this door, they can stand outside. We can expend it all right. I’m sorry.

So we have this seeking through devotion and the intellectuals started seeking through certain rituals. In India for example on one side we had a big movement of devotion. On the other side we had Vedas and all these books created by people who thought that certain type of chanting will help to excite the elements. But there was a secret happening where the great seers and saints even in your country started a movement of giving realization to people. And it is said in our old books that in ancient times a saint from India came to your country, and there were very few people who were given realization. First they were cleansed. First there were given physical exercises and all that. And ultimately then when they thought they are worthy and sincere and honest and compassionate then they were given realization, by very few people.

So you can see here there are three channels. One is on the left side, is the channel which gave the devotion part, the emotional side of our seeking. And the right side that you see is the yellow line which gave the reading and writing and exciting of the elements. But ultimately both these side people had to think of their Self-realization. Both the sides people left and right had to think of their realization otherwise they were not satisfied. And the movement of the bhakti or the devotion also got completely changed, didn’t keep the right path. And the right side as we call it, is also, went into a dimension of more materialism.

But if you see it clearly in the centre is the path for our ascent. So the left and the right when it is used too much also will go to extremes. So left side represents within us the power of desire. And the right side is the power of action to fulfil the desire. But the power that is in the centre is Kundalini, is the power of Holy Ghost, is pure desire. So all other desires are never satiable in general, is an economic principle. So what is that desire which is satiable? We may be we may not be aware of it but it is the desire to become one with the eternal.

Some people first seek their joy in say: money, children, family - and then they think it’s no good, so they take to power. But ultimately they have to realize that these things are not joy giving. We see people who have been very powerful - they look so miserable. We see people who are very rich - they are so very miserable. So the joy, which does not have this duality of happiness and unhappiness, is somewhere else. So today I think is the time for us to ascend ourselves above this human level into that super-human level. If you try to go too much after your desires then you cross the line which is your subconscious mind. Because the left side is for your past. From whatever type you are born, from the ancient times of the creation - all is there on your left side. And whatever is your future and whatever you think mentally is done on the right side. So we have our past on one side and our future on another side. So we have two types of people who are: one are living in the past glory and another who are living on the future.

All our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual problems come when we move to the extremes. We are like this with our sympathetic nervous system, right and left, are our left and right both sides, we work in such a manner if you move too much to the right or too much on the left will spoil the centre. So that all the religions have taught that we should not go to extremes, we should be in moderation.

So when the Kundalini rises, when this power rises, She also puts them right the centres, She nourishes them, and then She integrates all of them. Now this power resides in our triangular bone - sacrum - which you can see with your naked eyes sometime pulsating like a heart. The bone pulsates like a heart. In some people who have got problems on their chakras, higher chakras, obstructions - the problems. And also with a stethoscope you can feel, with a stethoscope you can feel the rising of the Kundalini till here. (Shri Mataji pointing to Sahasrara) Here you start feeling the throbbing of the Kundalini. Mostly these days the Kundalini rises like a jet. But in some people it does take time, if they are sick, if they are conditioned, if they have gone to false gurus. So when it happens we can correct it also by nourishing a particular obstructing centre, which is obstructed. Obstructed, there’s obstruction. ( Aside to translator: What’re you saying? )

So there is no problem, everybody can get realization. Now going to the left and to the right is a very common thing that happens to people. We can use our left and right sympathetic nervous system, like if you want to run, you can run fast and the heart can start pulsating more. You can also increase the breathing rhythm. But what brings it to the normal is the parasympathetic, which is in the centre. So when the Kundalini rises, she nourishes this parasympathetic which is out of the approach of doctors.

When we say autonomous nervous system - who is the ‘auto’? Auto is the Spirit. So left and right we start using like the break and the accelerator in a car. Now supposing you use your accelerator only, you will go to the - or if you use your only left side too much that is the break, then you will never move. So one has to learn to use both of them properly, so you become really the driver of the vehicle, this vehicle. But the master is sitting behind still in the car. And once you become a self-realized, you become the master. So you are completely in control of the driver, of the break and of the accelerator.

Now when we are thinking the thoughts are coming either from the past or from the future and they just come and disappear like this, like waves. And our mind is jumping on the cusp – cusp of the waves. Everything we see we cannot enjoy, we start thinking about it. We start thinking how much it must have cost? And can I buy that, and things like that. But we cannot enjoy it because there’s so much thought in between. In between these thoughts, in between these two thoughts there is a little space which is the present. It is neither the present - it is neither the past nor the future. Now if I say, “You stand on - in your present”, you cannot. But when you get your Self-realization then you get into a state which we call as thoughtless awareness. Because when the Kundalini crosses through your Agnya the thoughts separated and you stand in your present. Then you watch something, you don’t think, you just enjoy the whole creation of the person who has created. Like a ripple-less lake reflects all that is created around it. In the same way the mind becomes ripple-less, absolutely peaceful. Then you rise into the second step, second stage where you become into another awareness which is doubtless awareness. So in the beginning you feel the cool breeze in your hands as you felt it and the cool breeze out of your head as you felt it.

And then gradually you feel that this thoughtless awareness area increases, you are so thoughtless that if you want, you’ll think, otherwise you’ll not think. As a result of your spiritual growth, your sensitivity increases so much that you are doubtless about it. On your fingertips you can tell what’s wrong with another person. You can – on your fingertips you can feel another person’s centres - as well as yours. And if you know how to correct it, you have corrected it. You become extremely powerful person and deep personality. At the same time with all this knowledge you are full of love and compassion. You become a transformed personality. Such a person develops very pure eyes. As Christ has said, “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes. Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes.” In the commandment it is ‘thou shall not commit adultery’, but He said, “Thou shalt not”, He’s so subtle, “have adulterous eyes.”

So you lose all sense of greed and lust. Then also you lose the sense of comfort, sense of comfort. For example I am born in a very rich royal family and married to a very rich man and also my husband is highly placed and – now all right. And we live in palacial houses, no doubt. But I have no sense of comfort. I have no sense of comfort. I can sleep anywhere. I can sleep on the streets, I can sleep in the jungles, I can have bath in the rivers, free. And I have no sense of taste, I can eat everything given with love.  All these little, little things are joy-killers. Because you become so free of all that, that you are completely drenched into the ocean of joy. And the greatest joyous thing is to give realization to others. And to cure others, to give them joy and happiness, give them love and compassion. Actually you enjoy your virtues, you enjoy them. I’m hopelessly generous, but I enjoy it. (Shri Mataji laughing) My family people are sometimes worried that I might give away everything to others. (Shri Mataji laughing) So all these ideas are there within us the conditioning because we are closed into our own personality.

In Sanskrit language a realized soul is called as dwijaha - dwijaha, and also a bird is called as dwijaha. Dwijaha – bird, bird. Because the bird has a second birth. The bird lives in a shell as an egg. And when the mother bird pierces on the head then it opens out and becomes the bird. And it’s the mother bird, knows if a person - the egg is ready or not for hatching. So we also before realization live in an egg of this ego and superego within us. Ego and conditioning within us. So all the one thousand petals of the limbic area are closed like that, limbic area is there in the centre. These are nerves 988 they said, 988. Doctors say so. 988 - doctors. All right, but they are one thousand. So they all open up like this, like a lotus, and they look like tongues of flames, beautiful flames, very silent. They are about seven colours different, but very beautifully, very silently burning. We cannot say burning – because there is no heat, it’s all cool, just like Himalayas.

That is what you all have, just it’s in a potential state. We’ve got photographs where many Sahaja yogis are sitting and on their head is the light, you can see in the photographs. If you have seen one of the paintings of annunciation of mother Mary. The disciples all standing before Her like this and from the head there is a light coming out. So when they say that the Holy Ghost blessed them, they got their realization. And they started speaking some other language - it was the language of chakras. But other people started thinking they were mad. I mean, if a sane person goes in the lunatic asylum all the lunatics think that the sane person is mad. Once our prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru went in a lunatic asylum. And he went and told one lunatic that, “I’m prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru.” So the lunatic says, “Oh it’s all right. I was also like you saying the same thing, you’ll be all right, don’t you worry.” (Laughter)

So now one has to know that it’s a very deep sensitivity one has to develop to understand. It is not a superficial thing and those who are really worthy only can get it. The worthy. – Who are worthy, worthy - capable. Like Buddha called it ‘Arahati’. So I’m sure Greeks being such an ancient country, I’m sure that all of you are worthy of it. And I hope it will work out for all of you.

May God bless you all.

I would like to have questions again for a while and then - not too many, because yesterday people got excited afterwards, you see - so very few questions, if they are really sensible. Moreover the knowledge you see, of it is the knowledge of the ocean. And whatever I’ve said is nothing, I’ve giving thousands of lectures, so there is no end to knowledge. Now for example there are so many lights here and if you have to enlighten, you have to just put on one switch. Because it is built in there, everything is all ready. But supposing I start telling you about the history of electricity and history of this hotel and everything, then you get a headache. There’s no need to know. First you get your realization and when you have to repair then you may. But unnecessarily if you want to know every this kind of a thing, you may not get even realization because your attention may be diverted. So the best thing is to get the light within yourself. All right, now ask Me questions.

51:00

Question: in greek... (very long...)

Shri Mataji: Give him the book. It crosses all right. It does cross. It’s correct. Listen now. Just tell him... Just be seated, please be seated, please be seated. Be seated. You see, we have not given you the complete knowledge so far. So what is the use of argument? No, no, no, but what I’m saying that it’s such a long time he’s taking, he should come and we’ll tell him all about it. What did he say? No, no that’s nothing contradictory, you come and see Me, please be seated. You see, just now I’ve just given a... Very aggressive.

What is it? Useless, it is useless.

Ha, ha. He himself is contradictory.

All right.

Translator: You spoke of freedom of desires and of Your prosperity...... ??

And if this prosperity creates any problems on your chakras...... ??

Shri Mataji: On what? No, no, no, on the contrary, if I was not prosperous, I could not have done Sahaja yoga, My husband pays for Me. Because I don’t take any money, it was important. I don’t take any money from anyone. This is aggressiveness and is a kind of a jealousy. (Shri Mataji laughing) If you spend your prosperity for the good of the people there can never be any problem. But if you are attached to it, naturally.

Question: in greek...

Shri Mataji: One should not treat Sahaja yoga so frivolously as that. One should not treat Sahaja yoga so frivolously as that because in the newspaper they were surprised that I have a Mercedes. I came in a Mercedes. But this Mercedes is given as a present to Rome ashram by Me to them, by My own money. (Shri Mataji laughing & applause) Now no more personal problems, you see, to understand Me you have to be a realized soul, it’s not easy. I wish they could go and ask these questions to the false gurus who are minting money. There, they don’t say anything, they pay. All right. Yes please.

Translator: He’s asking if there is a book in which is written how we can open our chakras and how we can follow this path?

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, of course, we have a book for you. We have a very good centre here and we have excellent very high level Sahaja yogis in Greece. But we’ll give you these books when you come to our centres because also reading, reading - nothing goes in there. Too much reading also, you see, it fills your mind, then you are not there. But we’ll give you definitely we’ll give you a book, all right.

Question: in greek...

Shri Mataji: Is it a question or a lecture? You see, a question has to be small and precise, it should not be a lecture, you see?

Translator: Socrates and saints are living inside of us and he is asking how this is done? And there is no emptiness inside him and he feels fulfilled.... ?

Shri Mataji: No, no problem for you. You are all right. All right, now who is that? You see, I would request you, you see, you must ask intelligent, simple questions, which will help everybody else and not to be aggressive.

Just a minute, just a minute and also I’ve not come here to take anything from you. I have come here to give you what you have. But there is no guarantee, it may work, it may not work. Even if your questions are answered or not answered makes no difference. It’s a living happening. If it takes place it’s your luck. If it doesn’t take place it’s your luck. And so why waste time in giving lectures - by these people. (Shri Mataji laughing) Now also some people when they find the public they just try to show off, but they can call a meeting themselves, and can give a lecture there. There is a...  (Applause)

I’ve known all kinds of people you see, but the maximum questions are asked here. Yes we have limited time and then what happens that the person who is in charge yesterday came and he would have arrested Me, because it was getting very late.

Translator: They want more questions, some more questions.

Shri Mataji: You write them down, listen, listen you see, hallo! I’ve come here, hello, I have come here to give you Self-realization, all right? Let Me finish My job. Now if you don’t want, you can go. And another if you have questions, you can write them down and give it to Me, after we have finished the Self-realization, have peace. Majority of the people want realization, one or two persons here and there, you see. (Applause)

So one or two persons here and there should not disturb all of them. It’s not proper, is not civil, is not decent. I’m willing to answer you, but you give it in writing, I’ll answer you. I’m here to answer you. Yesterday I was sitting here for hours together. And the hotel people were so angry that they said they will not give the hotel tomorrow to us - to such an extent. Now this is the country of Socrates, you cannot be childish. (Laughter) Must understand these are the circumstances, you must understand. Have it - they must understand. No more questions, please be seated.

All right, now another thing is that as I cannot force anything on you, you should not force anything on Me. So the question hour is over. All right. (Applause)

Now I would request those who want to go can go. There are many who are waiting to come inside. They may be very worthy people. They may be very worthy people. So those who do not want to have realization should depart, will be a very good idea. And give others the chance. Then another thing is, everybody has to follow the things I tell you, instructions which are very simple. And there is no mesmerism, so it’s your freedom that you have to accept it or not to accept it, there is no mesmerism. But the false gurus mesmerize you, so you don’t ask any questions and you just go on giving them money. So I would request all of you to be kind to others. Last night I slept at 3 o’clock and got up at 5 o’clock and the whole day I’ve been working also. So now please be kind.

It’s not an intellectual feat, it’s a living process of our evolution. It’s the last breakthrough into the collective unconscious. No mental activity is going to achieve it. So settle down with your mind. That is why I asked you to ask questions, because the mind is all the time jumping so I said, “All right, if I answer them then they’ll settle down.”

All right now, be kind to yourself. You have to be really pleasantly placed towards yourself. And no way to feel guilty. If you feel guilty I cannot give you realization. Also yesterday you saw that many people did not forgive. So I have to sit down here and ask them to forgive, forgive, forgive and then they got realization though so much time was spent unnecessarily. So please forgive everyone, it is a myth, whether you forgive or you don’t forgive you don’t do anything. But if you don’t forgive, then you play into wrong hands mentally - just thinking, thinking, I don’t forgive, I don’t forgive. So at the very outset let us forgive ourselves and know that you are the human beings at the epitome of evolution. You have to love yourself and not to be angry.

So first thing we have to do is to respect this Mother Earth. We have to take out our shoes because she sucks in our problems quite a lot. Those who are on the ground also should take out shoes, but they are all right. Now both the feet are to be kept separately because left and right are two energies, I’ve told you. All right. Now, as I’ve told you the left represents the power of desire, so you put the left hand towards Me like this, and right hand is to be used for the action of raising the Kundalini. So that later on even if I’m not there you can do it properly. Even if you get your Self-realization today your Kundalini might rise, may break through, you might feel the cool breeze. But still, the connection has to be properly fixed. I see many people get it and they get lost. Is the Parable of Christ you see, where some seeds were lost, it’s something like that. And then they get into troubles, and then they come to Me again. So it’s a waste of time. So you must understand the importance of your life and of your Self-realization. First time you’ll have the meaning to your life. And so you have to come to our follow up meetings and to our centre, which is quite humble. In a humble manner because it is you who has to get your benevolence. And you don’t have to pay for anything what so ever. All right?

So, put the left hand towards Me and the right hand on your heart. Now first I’ll tell you, you can keep your eyes open and see for yourself, work it out. But later on we’ll have to close the eyes, so just now you see what I’m telling you and you can work it out also. Now keep attention to yourself and not to others, just now keep your attention to yourself. All right. So now put your right hand on your heart. Here resides the Spirit. But the seat of the Spirit is here [note: Shri Mataji pointing to Her Sahasrara]. So we put our right hand in the lower portion - upper portion of your abdomen which is the centre of your mastery. Then we take it down to the lower portion of our abdomen. All of us, all our working is on the left hand side. Then we raise our hand again to the upper part of the abdomen where it is the centre of mastery. Now, then we raise our right hand to our heart. Where resides the Spirit. Then we raise our hand to our centre on the left hand side between your neck and your shoulder and turn your face to the right. Now this centre is catching the most, because people feel guilty. Also very serious because it gives you spondylitis, and also angina, many diseases. So don’t feel guilty. Now you put your right hand on your forehead across, on your forehead across, and bend your head and press it hard. Now this centre is for forgiving others. Now you take back your hand and put it on the back side of your head and push back your head. Here it is to ask for forgiveness without feeling guilty. Now please place - stretch the hand and place the centre of your palm with bent head on this - on the fontanel bone, which was a soft bone in your childhood. Press it hard, pushing back your fingers and move your scalp seven times clockwise, slowly, pressing it hard. Now.

Now, that’s all we have to do. But you have to close your eyes. Can take out your spectacles, if there is anything tight please make it loose and sit comfortably neither bending nor bending back, but in a comfortable manner.

Now put the left hand towards Me and put the right hand on your heart and both the feet on the sides. And now close your eyes. Here ask Me a very fundamental question - you can call Me Shri Mataji or mother, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Ask this question three times.

Hum. Now if you are the Spirit you are your guide, you are your guru, you are your master. So put your right hand on the left hand side of your stomach in the upper part and press it hard. Now don’t open your eyes till I tell you. Now, here you ask Me another question. When you know that you are the Spirit you will become the master. So ask Me the question three times, “Mother, am I my own master?”

As I’ve told you that divine knowledge cannot be forced onto you. It manifests on your central nervous system. But you have to ask for it in your own freedom. So please put your right hand on the lower portion of your abdomen and here you have to ask for pure knowledge. Now here you have to say, “Mother, please give me pure knowledge.” Say it six times because this centre has got six petals.

When you ask in your freedom for the pure knowledge the Kundalini starts moving upward. It starts moving upward so that you have to help your upper centres to be opened out with your self-confidence. So please put your right hand in the upper part of your abdomen and press it hard on the left hand side. And here you have to say with full confidence ten times, because also this centre has got ten petals, ten times you have to say, “Mother, I am my own master.” With full confidence.

The greatest and the most important truth about you is that you are the Spirit. Now you have to know that you are not the body, not your conditioning, not your ego, not your thinking, but you are the Spirit. So now raise your hand to your heart again and with full confidence you say 12 times, “Mother, I am the Spirit!”

One has to know that the Divine is the ocean of love, of bliss, of joy. But above all, it is the ocean of forgiveness. So now please put your hand in the corner of your neck and your shoulder, and put your head towards the right side. Here with full confidence please say 16 times, “Mother, I am not guilty!” Please say it 16 times with your heart. I’ve already told you that you have to be very pleasantly placed towards yourself.

Now put your right hand on your forehead across and bend your head. And press it hard on both the sides. This is the centre for forgiveness. So it’s no question of how many times, but from heart you say, “Mother, I forgive everyone.” And you need not say that it’s difficult, because it’s a myth. Whether you forgive or you don’t forgive, but if you don’t forgive then you play into wrong hands.

So now you put your right hand on the back side of your head and push back your head upward. Here for your own satisfaction, not counting your mistakes, not your guilt, you have to say, “O Divine, if I’ve done any mistakes, please forgive me.” Say it from your heart.

Now stretch your hand fully and put the centre of your palm on the fontanel bone area which was a soft bone, and push back your fingers and put down your head. Here now I again cannot force Self- realization on you, so you have to say seven times, “Mother, please give me Self-realization!” Press it hard and move it seven times while saying that.

(Shri Mataji blowing into microphone)

Now take down your hands, put both the hands towards Me, and watch Me without thinking, you can do it. Now put your right hand towards Me, bend your head and see for yourself with your left hand, if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your head, bend your head. Now put your left hand towards Me, and see for yourself if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your head with your right hand. Now put your right hand towards Me and with left hand you see if there is a cool breeze. Now put both the hands towards the sky, and bend yourself and ask the question three times, “Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost? Is this the All-pervading power of God’s love? Mother, is this the Brahmachaitanya?” Ask these questions three times.

Now take down your hands please. Now see for yourself if you are feeling the cool breeze in your hands or out of your head. Those who are feeling the cool breeze out of their heads or are feeling in their hands or both please raise both the hands, or out of your head.

May God bless you. Most of you have felt it. Some have felt the cool in one hand; those who have felt in the cool - one hand, say in the left hand then put the right hand like this (note: Shri Mataji pointing left hand upwards and backwards), everybody should do for one minute. If it is in the left hand they are feeling. Right hand towards Me.

Now those who have felt in the left hand can put the left hand towards Me and the right hand on the Mother Earth. Towards the Mother Earth. Now I’ll tell you how to tie up your Kundalini, everybody who has felt or not felt should try. Just to hold the hand like this put the right hand along like this and take it up. Now we start.

We teach you how to tie up your Kundalini. All right. Now take it slowly upwards like this and tie it up like this on top of your head once. Again try. One hand is to be moved, another is to come straight. Tie it second times. Third time you have to tie it three times. One, two and three.

Now also you must take your protection. Put the left hand towards Me like this, protection from negative forces. And right hand to move. Give protection to your auras. Give protection to your auras like this, one - again. Two, three and half. Three and a half. May God bless you.

Now you feel it. Those who have not felt, also might feel it. Good. Now again can you raise your hands, those who have felt the cool breeze in both the hands or in the head. Just say can you raise your hands? All of you. Please raise your hands, those who have felt it, again. Good, so many got it now, better.

May God bless you.