1995-07-24 Talk to Representatives of ECO-Forum and the Vice-minister of Health

[Bulgarain Vice-Minister of Health speaking in Bulgarian, consequential translation in English]

... the private interest is dominating the interest as mankind as a whole. This is the reason and the pretext that in the latest conferences of Ecoforum on the problems of peace we addressed the United Nations Organization requesting the UN to make a Committe all over the world to preserve life on the Earth. With this respect we would be very glad and satisfied to have the support of Mrs. Srivastava.

Besides these principle issues I'm glad to express my joy and my respect to Mrs. Srivastava for the fact that She came to Bulgaria and is on Bulgarian soil and I hope that we could arrange a cooperation regarding that global issue.

I'd like to present my friends and collaborators, the leadership of Ecoforum for Peace: Mr. Prof. Alexander Alexandrov, he is a member of Board of Directors of Ecoforum and not untill recently was he the Minister of Environment of Bulgaria, Mr. Trifonov - he is chief coordinator of Ecoforum for peace, Mr. Marinov is responsible for section culture in Ecoforum for Peace. Of course the Ecoforum board consist of members all over the world. So I introduced only these members of the board who live in Bulgaria.

- Very nice to meet all of them.

I would like to emphasise that Mr.[UNCLEAR ?Fati Sindhau Getwood] from of India was a member of the international Board of Ecoforum for two years. He died not long ago and may God bless his soul. He was the President of Wild Nature section and we need a personality to take over his place, from India. That is all I could to say as a beginning.

[Shri Mataji speaks from 4:57]

Very kind of you. What you have said about this global problem is a fact, is actually that's the problem that we have no unity in this world. As you know my husband was Secretary General of the International Maritime Organization which is agency of UN. There are 14 secretaries seneral, one of them. So I see to the problems of UN also.

You see the problem in modern times it is that human beings at human awareness can not become collective. There are fixed ideas in the brain and according to those fixed ideas they live. And all these conferences, which I have myself also attended many, are just discussions and paper work but actually they cannot achieve because there is not collective opinion. It seems impossible, by discussions, by arguments, by compromising nothing works out. Because just on another plane I work, I think we should make human beings higher then what they are, they must be more, to that state where you become collective, become. We have within us that kind of a power which can be germinated and we have now thousands and thousands of people who have become collective.

So we have to now become the Spirit and enter into a new dimension, the fourth dimension as you call it, where we are really collecive, to be frank we are really collective. There we are, it's potential you are, it's potential, but you just, you become a being which is a universal being. And in the West, in Russia especially, I was suprised, Russia and all others Eastern block countries it is very well working out. Of course, India is, because they know, it's not difficult in India, we have in thousands but even otherwise we have 65 nations which is working out. And it is something within us - the potential of our ascend. We have reached a pure human state but we have to little bit jump into a new awareness that Christ himself has said that "Know thyself". He talked of Spirit, that is there, and it automatically happens. Even in [?this] surprising Islam is written you see:"do not know yourelf, you'are like a beast", the Koran.

And this is a special time because at this time it's chaotic, you don't know how to manage things. At this time is the best time things to happen because people are so frustrated. And in this state I feel the developing countries will become much faster than the western so called developed countries because they realize the value system of the West has lead them to nowhere. So, you see, if this happens so many blessings coming.

First of all, it's a meta sciensce, it is above and to talk to people about it in the West is very difficult. You can't pay for it, you cannot organize like a church, or this or that - no, you cannot. And those who want only can have it, you cannot force it onto anyone. It is just the time, these are just ready those who are seekers. Even if the young people are taking drugs they are doing it in the seeking of truth. You see they are genuine and they are seeking something beyond because they are fed up.

So you see this is very much connected with spirituality but you should not accept this blindfolded but let's try just to keep your minds open and see this as a hypothesis of reality. If it works out as honest people you have to accept it because that will solve all your human problems, all. I mean, we are all very glorious as human beings, we don't know how glorious we are but that potential has to be brought.

Now see I've now got 73 years of age, now working so hard, I don't get tired, I don't get tension, I don't get stressed, nothing. And I travel like [?star] if you see my passport, have you got there, [UNCLEAR] you got? Such a big passport I have.

So what I'm saying everybody has this potential and it has to be worked out, and is a process what you can call it a living process, this is the living process of evolution.

Now as far as the physical side is concerned, definetely we have cured cancer, blood cancer very very surely blood cancer, because we deal with the basic status within us. [UNCLEAR] Sahaja yoga. So when you are dealing with the basics, if you correct the basics you are alright. For that you don't have to pay anything, you cannot pay for it because it's the divine love of God. You have to get connected with it. In the Bible it's called as the cool breeze of the Wholy Ghost [UNCLEAR] on your heads.

Now we have built-in within us 7 main chakras, that means center of energy. And it is these determine our physical, emotional, mental and also the spiritual being. We go to Church, we go to Temple, we go to Mosque as we believe into everything blindly but the time has now come to prove that they are all correct. Also by that happening you transcend all these outside religions because all religions they are like flowers on one tree of spirituality, no exclusiveness about it, no exclusiveness. Even Mohammed sahab has talked about Abraham, Moses, Christ, even his mother, more than in the Bible. He said:"You dare not talk about Her Virginity, should be a sin.", Mohammed sahab has said it. But then later on these people, you see, formed exclusive regions just to fight. I think for democracy no exclusive religion can work out. So when we talk even about secularism still they're fighting, in the name of God, because they don't know they are all one, they don't know.

So I felt that instead of doing patchwork here and there better to change the whole thing transforming the human beings, that's what is needed I felt and 25 years back I started my work. But in the West they call us a cult. We have no bombs, we have no weapons, nothing, no guns, not even a dagger. But so many [UNCLEAR], false cults, false gurus came, and even churches are, they are all money oriented or power oriented but nobody spiritually. So one has to transcend and see for themselves, it's just, it becomes evident on your central nervous system. Once they know they're all one there is no quarrel, there is just peace.

So this whole thing that has been brought out is clearly explained, we have many scientists, doctors who're working with us. I've also done medicine but the main thing is this is beyond medicine. This is your own power cures you, this is your own, you are not obliged, can't pay, nothing. Then only you become really free. Otherwise there are conditionings you have, or you have Ego, we have so many shackles on our body still.

You see in Sanskrit language they call a realized soul as "dvijaha" - twice born, and even a bird is called the same because the bird is first an egg and then it becomes bird. In the same way in the human beings also we are in our own shell. You rightly said that:"we are all individualistic". But in the real sense we are not.

You see, some interpreneur starts some stupid production, everybody [UNCLEAR]. They haven't got their own personality. I don't know why they accept anything that is produced and start, especially in theWest society, in England, in England you find thousands and thousands of things coming up every year.

Now these machines creat ecological problems. How can you stop the machine? You stop the source. The source in Sahaja yoga is that we mostly use things made by hand, like this one here, this (sari) is made by hand. Artistic things, your country's full of art.
- Vaibhav, can you give one piece to show them?
I've been buying art from your country to export it so that people develop a taste and you country gets economic help. In the developed countries people are aware, they're trying to buy things made by hand, very expensive having it, very. Because they are fed up of cement, they're fed up of artificial. They cannot make handmade things. Now the developing countries should make. This is from your country. And she was very happy, the artist, when I bought from her lots of things. So we have to make people respect art and see things.

But all the junk from America is coming to Russia and they are full now of dollars, I don't know what's the matter with the Russians, they don't seek. All the junk, and also they have recession they cannot sell it. All their artificial nonsensical things normally they will put it in the sea, it's coming now to all the Eastern block, especially to Russia. Instead of that why don't sell your handmade things to America and get money from them. That's my idea. I'm trying to do that. So then we stop machinery by making people aware that you should use handmade things.

Say in India in a household they will have about one plate for food, one person, one plate. In brass or sterling silver, silver is cheap in India, so we have one plate for one person and this is then given to the progeny also, same thing. But if you start taking plastic there is no end to it because it is "disposable". So we build up a mountain of this, mountains and mountains of this plastic, this is another problem to correct.

Also ecological problems come from, as you know, in the [UNCLEAR] and all that, all the rivers fill with it and this and that. Now for that I would say that the industry must be moderated. And they will as soon as people start using handmade things the industry will go down automatically. It's already happening everywhere. May not be here but in England how many factories are closed, even ship buildings, many are closed, also in America. America is in a mess because as I told you they are full of that, and they just pay the interest. Also as a polarity action already all these overdeveloped countries are doing half [UNCLEAR] meaning they're facing recession. Automatically if you'd go with something beyond a certain limit you get reaction.

But awareness to use handmade things, Mahatma Gandi insisted for all handmade things done. [UNCLEAR] covered ground [UNCLEAR], first handmade, another pradeshi - made in India, nothing from outside, nothing from outside. So English could do, I mean, you see all their Manchester industries, everything closed down. So that's kind of a movement has to be started. Really I was suprised to see in your shops so many things from abroad, especially from India also here coming. But in India you can't get one shop with foreign goods, not even one shop, nothing, you have to use only Indian way. Also we are facing this problem in the cities in India because see our government was so money oriented. And as soon as we get another government I'm sure it will reverse. These industrialists have already made so much money, they should settle down and retire now, close down their machinery. There is so much surplus produced already, surplus. In America there are shops and shops where they sell just the surplus.

That must change now, that is showing the failure completely. So we can now start a movement, let us wear clothes which are made with hand and also other things, use that which are made with hand.

Another I see that once you start exporting handmade things abroad their machinery will also fail. I'm trying to do that. Like from all these countries I buy and send it to, say America of all the places, and let them develop a taste, they do, they love it. [UNCLEAR] already knows what they would buy.

Can you show them that piece from India, which I have bought from a very remote village, very remote. It's not old, not very old and it sells like hot cake so I can help those poor people there and they have things like this: plates and cups and saucers, everything, all from clay.

So automatically the machinery will be stopped and the fashion also should start like that, you see, like an enterpreneur you have a fashion for a handmade thing. In your country I find linen is very well made.
- What's a linen?
- Tablecloth with fibers. And if you could find out, let them find out for me for linen, I've taken also from Russia, from everywhere wherever I travel, from the developing. So that you see..
- Not this one, the other one.
- Bigger one?
- Big one, yes, the one you gave me.

You should explore and find out what we are making with hands and should be a proper export quality.
- Not this one, the other one, the other one you gave me yesterday [UNCLEAR]. Men also have to learn a little bit of art.

- They want to ask the questions.
- Alright.

....the one with the imbroidery.

- Alright, let's start.
- What Mrs. Srivastava has just said is wonderful.
- Ah, see this one, it'such a beauty, and that is gift and they will also give designs for you to make. See how beautiful, nowhere you'll find this, they appreciate this. Alright, what is this question?
- Yes, we should be more practical about real life. It's a wonderful way to fight against machinery polluting nature. But how are we to overcome the problems of manufacture? How can we stop the industry that is kills the earth?
- They are just here for money sake, enmass, enmass they make, these people they are multimilioners. Even if you stop their machinery their seven generations can live well.
- The question is how to avoid the deadlock in which humanity is now? All that requires a lot of time and things are that bad we cannot wait. And you say there is more efficient way then appeals and demonstrations.
- Absolutely right. The first point is that you have to become the Spirit and the second point is it takes no time, spontaneously, absolutely. In Russia 15.000, 18.000 people are there in one place and they all get it in no time.
- I absolutely agree with you.
- I'm not sure if we can make those who are in charge of the industry of West to feel their Spirit, how fast.
- They will, automatically going on, automatically, and secondly Sahaja yoghis don't use anything like that, they are satisfied souls and they just don't use anything made by machines. And the machinery also is now in the West is also getting locked up, very fastly. If you get the statistics you'll be amazed how many in England, how many in America, how many even in France, just getting, just locked. Only they are getting prosperous in developing countries. You just checked the statistics, you will be shocked. 

Japan is also in a mess, absolutely. Then America is absolutely, yesterday they said it. Italy is again, Spain, but worse hit is France, percentage-wise, in ratio. But America so many. I know so many boys who went from India they are just getting [UNCLEAR]. Automatically it happens. But this way if they become more aware and respect this Mother Earth then it is kind of a fashion that starts. If Mahatma Gandhi could do it for crores of people, thousands and thousands, why not we do it? But he used patriotism as the mean, partriotism. What we have to use? Spirituality. It's not slow as you say, it is very fast. We don't know how to get halls for our programs anywhere and in Russia we had to go in the jungles near the Volga river because only in one center are 21.000 sahaja yoghis. Within five years I can tell you at least 20 percent Indians should become sahaja yoghis. We are getting very highly placed people also becoming sahaja yoghis. People like you who are so respectable, who are at the helm of affairs. If you take to this seriously it will work in no time because you yourself have this power, yourself will become powerfull.

So my work is on another level and I think that these ecological problems can be only solved if human beings become wise and know what is good for them, what is benevolent. You have to select people who are very honest, who are dedicated and they know the job.
For example we had one lady called Menacca Gandhi, she was very much for ecology. She is actually the daughter-in-law of Mrs. Gandhi, our Prime Minister. In India dynasty is very important whether there are brains or not. Now this lady what she said:"To protect your sea you must have all the buildings 500 metres away from the sea". And our Supreme Government, you will be amazed, agreed, Supreme Court actually. Then they sent a sort of application against it and I had to defend it myself, I'm not a laywer but I did. This lady has not travelled anywhere, she has not seen the world. I've seen two countries who have solved this problem. One is Australia, another is Tunisia, of all the places. What they do? They give the seashore area to some very responsible people like a hotel or to some institutions, something very responsible, just on the brink of the sea. And even the septic tanks are in the front side and then the buildings and then the sea. And they charge even throw of paper, they are charged such a heavy (money of Australia). You will be amazed, not a single paper there, ocean is very clean. 

- Prof. Alexandrov must leave now because he's got a meeting with the UN.
- Alright.
- Fifteen years ago I met Prof. Kaul, the uncle of Indira Gandhi.
- Kaul, he's a Kashmiri.
- We talked over different problems - economical, political, ecological and he said that the role of India is to tame the forces in the world.
- How?
- It seems with that respect that the role of Bulgaria is to tame again different forces but on the Balkans.
- How? How does he suggest that? What is the solution? - The way India tames the rest of the countries..
- The great powers.
..that way Bulgaria would tame ...the different powers on the Balkans.
- No,no, don't learn anything from India, don't learn anything from them, Mr. Kaul is wrong. They are in a mess, they in a mess now, understand. Don't follow them.
- There are three civilizations known so far, agricultural civilization up until 17th century, second industrial civilization which is ongoing and the third one is communications which will enter in the 21st century.
- Who told that?
- This the theory of Toffler.
- In India?
- No,this is the theory of Toffler of the third wave.
- Ah, global.
- It's global.
- All the issues are related to the issue of morality and it seems that each civilization should have different morality.
- You said it, that's it. I didn't want to say it but you've said it. That's it. Agreed. But how do you bring in morality? By preaching, sermoning? No. Only hipocrisy will come. The other way is a fact - when you become the Spirit automatically you become moral, automatically.
- It was a pleasure for me to participate in this meeting today but I think I have to leave it, this meeting, because I have an appointment with Ambassador Toshkov who is in charge of the Nature Consultations of the United Nations program.

- Alright. But one thing I tell you about United Nations, one thing. We have to have one Committee on top of them which should be selected from the whole world, all men, and they should be something like your [UNCLEAR] to decide. This UN I know how much money they give. They give such a large payment actually I was ashamed that my husband got such a lot of money from them. You see it's something absolutely money orientaed and job oriented. So you can ask for another Committe on top of them. It's very dominated also by muslim countries. In short I say, in short, one sentence. In India they started with the education of the public and they started schools, you see, and all the money goes to the ministers, nothing done, nothing, they have become so corrupt in India.
- The same problem is valid for lots of countries in the world, not only in India.
- That's true, that's true. So morality is the point, morality is the point.
- I hope to see you...

(a conversation with the intepreter inviting her to sit confortably)

- She will sit. This is also a part of the machinery. No, they'are, everybody cannot affort it so sit on the ground but don't buy artificial plastic chairs. If you can afford it get a nice chair.

- I'd like to express my admiration to your reasoning and I'd like to point that the basical contradiction for our contemporary world today is the contradiction between talent and reasoning, talent and intelect.
- Of course, mass realization.
- The talent is the genious to invent things but there is not enough reasoning to control the inventions. My doubt was in effect that I'm not sure we have enough time to raize the intellect that will control the invention.
- No, no, we have. We can, if you people help it can work out. The question of you people who are so important should try to help. If you help it will just blast out. But I'm still surprised, all the false gurus were helped, all the false people were helped and I can't understand. [UNCLEAR] who was a [UNCLEAR] Prime Minister officially went after a very false personality. Can you immagine?
- Andreotti.
- Also [UNCLEAR] I told you, through economic development and all that, you can have that but you should try to propagate that you all have to become Spirit. You can work it out, you already have got it, you already have got sitting down before Me. Now, raise your hands just like this, you can take out your shoes, [UNCLEAR].
- Is it possible that it works through [UNCLEAR]?
- It even works with shoes but better without. You can sit confortably. Now just put your hands, without thoughts. [UNCLEAR]. You people plan too much, very futuristic, you have to be in the present. He's got it.
- You feel the cool in the hands or the whole?
- No.
- Yes, I feel something.
- You are alright. Even that gentleman [UNCLEAR].
- Do you feel now?
- It's like current of air.
- Not to doubt.
- They feel like a current of air.
- Yes, this is a cool breeze. Ask me a question, you can call me Mother, "Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost?", you ask in your heart three times:"Mother, is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost?".
- It will increase. Mmm. Alright? Now, you can feel it coming out of your head, this is actualization of baptism, you feel it on your head, it's coming now. They can feel it, [UNCLEAR]. Alright? And you'll feel very silent, [UNCLEAR], watch me without thinking, just watch me without thinking. Now you should only know how to use this power. See now, see, you feel very peaceful within. You have to have peace within, otherwise how can you create peace outside? See now, you will have experiences, health will improve, your concentration will improve, your wealth will increase. Now this is what you said that you need some help, you now have the help of the Divine, the protection of the Divine, take it from me.
- We thank you.
- Thank you very much, thank you for coming.
- We also thank you and we are sorry if we've gone too far, if we have said something wrong towards you, we're sorry.
- No, no, I was really enjoying. Everytime you stay with good people is something the most precious because they care for the benevolence of the whole world. Thank you very much.
[Mother speaks aside, UNCLEAR].

- Our talks should continue, the communication should go on.
- Of course, of course, we should, you are invited to Italy where I live normally and also for the conference we are having in Russia, I'll send them invitation.
- I mean our projects, I would like to appoint you with some of our projects.
- Let's see, I would like to see that also but to Italy you should come, to Russia we're having a very good conference on morality, health and all that. And Russian are organizing for people from all over the world.
- When is the conference?
- October.
- September, 19th of September. They will arrange everything for their stay, everything.
- We have an international conference in October.
- This is in September.
- They're talking about their initiative.
- Of course, I'll come. Where is it?
- It will be in Bulgaria, Shri Mataji, in Sofia.
- I don't know where I'll be, but if I'm here I'd definitely come.
- I see.
- I've been travelling here, there, there, I don't know the timings.
- So nice being here. Your shoes are here.
- I got so moved that I forgot my shoes.