I definitely can't solo a blue in melee without using my spells. A blue
ghoul I can narrowly beat weaving Warsong, Hymn, and CoD or Bellow. That's
at level 19 with equipment that's probably far above average for the most
part (All magical armor except for bearskin boots). At 17 I was able to
solo blues a bit better, but never tried without songs. Since the blue
ghoul took me down to 7hp I know I would have lost without songs. Hymn
alone gave me about 60hp in the fight. Bellow probably did about 70 more
points to the ghoul as well. That's 130 hp difference, which probably
exceeds the value of your shaman buffs. I doubt a bard could solo any xp
giving greens at 35th without songs. At 35th I imagine we are quite a bit
better than Shamans at melee (Marr knows I hope so!) but I'm not seeing it
at 19th. Of course slam seems to work far better on players than it does on
mobs. Our shaman stunned me 9 times in our fight last nite. He often goes
thru a nites hunting with only 2 stuns on critters.
Kitasi of E'ci
Well my Shaman is 35, and I have decent armor for my level
nothing special. I have an observer staff and am maxed (I think) for my
level in 2H blunt. And all I have to say is that buffed up to the hilt, I
can MAYBE solo a blue in melee (not using DOT and DD)...but I doubt it.
This is strict melee. Even when I use my spells, I still need to kite a
little to be comfortable. My bard is only 17 and does just fine on a
blue... I don't know how she will be at 35 yet.
I guess my point (do I have one here?) is that my bard kicks
ass in melee compared to my shaman (can't say about other hybrid classes or
about other bards or other shaman). Shaman are best at niche filling -
turning the tide of battle in our favor, whether by buffing, debuffing or a
nicely placed heal or DD. Maybe bards are best at that too, with a slight
emphasis on getting in there and fighting. But if my shaman is taking hits,
I crumple just about as fast as a wizard :-)
Tani 17th Bard
Halana 35th Shaman
Solusek Ro
-----Original Message-----
From: Kimes, Dean W.
[mailto:
Dean_Kimes@...]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 11:09 AM
To: '
eqbards@onelist.com'
Subject: RE: [eqbards] RE: RE: Bellow
song Damage
From: "Kimes, Dean W."
<
Dean_Kimes@...>
If you jump off a 10 story building you will
fall. That is a fact.
If you jump off a 10 story building you will
die. That is not a fact.
You are the only person I know who does not
know the difference between a
fact and an opinion.
Maybe Bards eventually become better than
Shamans in melee, but not at level
17. Dual wield was not sufficient to
prevent me from being pummeled due to
the numerous stuns I received. All shamans
have slam. Sure it never goes
up, but it is still sufficient to stun a
17th level bard.
Bards are better than all hybrids in magical
power? Under what microscope
did you determine that? At lower levels its
obviously true as the other
hybrids have no magical power. Hmm lets
examine them at higher levels.
Paladin get Greater Heal, 400 hp that's 3
minutes worth of Hymn with a lute
and it takes them less time than that to
meditate back the mana. They also
get Revive at their utmost level of spell
use. Not to mention Lay Hands.
Rangers probably have the weakest line of
spells getting nothing above Heal,
though they do get Wolf Form, cool but not
overly powerful. Shadowknights
spells are fearsome. The Engulfing Darkness
DoT line is devastating as it
destroys our best defense, Acellerando and
it stacks with their Heat Blood.
They also now have the lifetap series. All
this aside their Harm Touch
alone is a devastating if slow to recharge
weapon. We do have a greater
number of spells than the other hybrids do
though. Are our abilities
obviously better, I would not say so.
Better in a full group of six maybe,
better in small groups, that's not apparent.
Even if we were better it
certainly would not be 5-6 times better and
that's how the other hybrids
relate to us in terms of melee skills.
Now since I have stated that bards magical
abilities might not be so much
better than some of the other hybrids,
rangers excluded as their spells are
truly weak, feel free to call me a liar.
That will just be one more
definition you will need to look up on
Merriam-Webster Online, right after
'fact'.
To further turn your argument around:
Bards cannot beat any caster consistently in
pure magical combat. (though
I've come close with Maxell MR)
Bards cannot beat any other hybrid or melee
type consistently in pure melee
combat.
Neither of those statements however true
prove we are weaker than those
classes any more than yours prove we are
equal in power. In my opinion, we
are weaker than several of the other
classes. The weakness is not generally
overbearing but that doesn't mean it
shouldn't be corrected. To be honest I
think a realignment of our skills would
suffice to bridge the gap without
modifications to our spells other than
including the missing ones and fixing
the broken ones. An added melee skill like
Parry which succeeds more often
than Dodge, and some raised caps on skills
that are currently of debatable
usefulness would help as well. Most
Jack-of-all-trades are seen as
self-sufficient characters while we are
definitely not designed to be very
capable on our own. We do best in groups
due to the nature of our spells.
It is this very grouping nature that further
undermines the usefulness of
our other skills as there will often be
present others in the group whose
skill so far overshadows ours in those other
areas that we might as well not
have the skill at all. There is no benefit
to having Find Traps and Pick
Locks when there is a rogue in the group
with more than double your skill.
If we were meant to be characters who could
function on their own and do
nearly everything, if not well, that would
be different. However, we are
not. We are meant to group and for every
member we add to our group some of
our skills become superfluous just as our
magical powers become more potent.
Kitasi
From: "Wayne Sheppard"
<
mrwayne@...>
1. Bards are better than all Pure Casters
and Priests in melee. (MAG, WIZ,
ENC, NEC, CLR, SHA, DRU)
2. Bards are better than all hybrids in
magical power. (PAL, RNG, SK)
The above statements are facts and cannot be
disputed. Every Bard should
understand these facts.
If someone tries to contradict one of the
above statements, I will point
them out as a liar. Especially to those
Bards who have been on this list
quite a while.
As to the nature of my messages, in the past
I have made some poor choices.
But I've tried to do better. I looked at my
last five messages and saw
nothing out of the ordinary. I'd be glad to
discuss any of my posts with
you or anyone else in private, not on the
list.
Wayne
> From: "G.W. Willman, IV"
<
gww6e@...>
> Subject: RE: RE: Bellow song Damage
>
> Wayne,
>
> Just curious, what server do you play
on and do you play a bard? The
> reason I ask is because you emails are
consistently sniping in nature and
> generally flamebait. I'll be the first to
defend your right to free
speech
> however I would ask that you perhaps
temper somewhat your future remarks
> with the fact this is a public forum meant
for discussion -- closing doors
> via naked accusations and bombastic
proclamations offers little room for
> such to take place on a mutually
respectful level.
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