That is a very good way of describing personal goals. But there is really
nothing anyone can do to diminish an achieved personal goal. If you worked
very hard for an item - it in no way diminishes the enjoyment you had
obtaining it - or having it, if someone else does as well. That only
happens if YOU let it happen.
This whole thread started out with competition with OTHERS - and how
someone else having something would negatively impact an individual. It
is/was my stance - that the competitive aspects in EQ are much more against
the world - and as you noted very well - against our own personal goals and
agenda.
I'd like to add to your list on personal accomplishments. The first newbie
I helped with a particular strategy (in the case of bards - how to
manipulate more than one song) and seeing that person have a whole new
world open for them. That was a very gratifying experience for me and *I*
wasn't even the one doing the action. Just knowing I helped them become
more than they were thru knowledge is in itself a reward.
Helping a group do better than *I* know they would have - had I not been
there - even if *they* are totally clueless.
I guess I'm a little easier to please than the average gamer. The little
things and the social aspects are worth far more to me than any mob I may
or may not eventually kill.
There is never going to be a 'world' that will not eventually be known
fully end to end. There is never going to be a mob that enough people and
tactics cannot kill.
My interest in these worlds is not so much how my pixels interact with
other pixels (be it mobs or people) but how I can interact with the minds
behind the pixels. The human element is everchanging, evergrowing and is
never truly repetitive.
Perhaps that's why I love the bard class so much. We (as a broad class)
tend to be made up more of folks that value support of others - and
interacting with them.
At 05:25 PM 12/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Dave Gaines <dave@...>
>
>I win every time I complete a new quest. I won when I killed
>Lockjaw by myself, that first solo spectre, the first giant, when we
>got my ykesha (wahoo!) last night, I'll win when I see Vox and Nagafen
>and Innohule... die. Everquest is a lot like euchre, I win, but I keep
>playing. I am victorious when I win the battle, yet I know that
>the war will never end.
>
>>
>> A 'game' IS competitive - it's designed to have a winner - it's setup that
>> way. That does not mean you can't enjoy the play aspect of it as well - but
>> it's a forgone conclusion before a 'game' starts, someone is gonna win,
>> someone is gonna lose.
>>
>www.dictionary.com:
>game (noun)
>An activity providing entertainment or amusement. No winner or loser
>here.
>
>a "competition" is designed to have a winner and loser, not game.
>
>Playing Everquest is a game for me. Lots of games have no winner or
>loser, this is a game for me, no, there is never credits at the end of it,
>but that doesn't mean I won't ever win.
>
>> Show me what in EQ 'let's you win'? Level 50 - nice things? Ya know,
>> eventually everyone that is persistent enough at trying will get that same
>> thing. If you look at others achievements as somehow diminishing your own -
>> you are superimposing your own personal competition on the world at large.
>>
>
>Here's another question. Would you say that killing Vox would be a good
>"victory" for my guild? Would I have a just complaint because Vox
>is changed 5 days before my guild goes to fight him, and now he doesn't
>drop anything? I had a battle to obtain a manastone from an evil eye.
>I lost that battle, I was not victorious.
>
>> The first watershed in a virtual world is the question "Can you win?". EQ
>> has a problem here - it WANTS to be a virtual world - but by setting itself
>> on a level based system it gives the illusion you can WIN.
>>
>
>I won in real life when I graduated from college, yet I am still playing
>there also.
>
>You think of win as only the final battle, no there is no such win in
>Everquest, but you can win elsewhere. I do grudingly admit I compete
>in Everquest, starting around level 35, I've done a /who all wizard 35 50,
>taken a look at the number of wizards higher than me. Somehow I gained
>a lot of enjoyment when last time I checked, I was higher up onthe
>list. I've made the brews, and the large bowls, and the small
>banded cloaks, and the fish rolls, and the class 6 arrows, I'm fluent
>in the different languages, I know my way around 95% of the zones by
>heart. I am running out of competitions that I enjoy in Everquest,
>so instead of quitting, I want the best for my remaining ones.
>
>>Please send submissions for the eqbards newsletter to lol@...
with the subject submissions.
>