It did take a TON of resources. it really is not feasable when you take into
account the server load, and the lines that develop, and DID devolop, along
with all the cries of dungeon stealer, line cutter, ETC. was not a fun time.
I was a game master in the Realm from about December 96 until january 98,
and was friends with the devolpers throughout alpha and beta

-Martyn

From: "Eric Cathell" <embroidery@...>

Sierra's The Realm did something similar. When you entered a dungeon it was

yours and your parties. There was a delay and the next group would be able

to enter and it would be their own dungeon separate from what the previous

party entered. I dont know if this is feasable in a 3d MMORPG or not...i

would think it would take ALOT of resources...but i could be wrong.

--Jalaric

-----Original Message-----

From: Reece, Tom - 25IDL G4 [mailto:g4mntofcr@...]

Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 5:18 PM

To: eqbards@onelist.com

Subject: [eqbards] Camping vs dungeon crawls (OT) (was Do I ever have a

chance at m aking high level?)

From: "Reece, Tom - 25IDL G4" <g4mntofcr@...>

Something John mentioned touched off a old issue I had in the back of my

mind. This make take a while to say everything I want so please bear with

me.

Like many of you out there, I started playing RPGs in the late 70s and early

80s with high school and college buddies. First off was AD&D then moved on

to others such as Warhammer and Rolemaster. Because we always played with

the same group, everyone's character was always close to one another. The

GMs would design their dungeons and campaigns based on the level of our

party. In other words, any dungeon we went into we knew that we could go

from start to finish with the characters we had when we started the dungeon.

This was the good old fashioned dungeon crawl. Traps, puzzles, treasure and

monsters to fight spaced out all along the way.

This type of adventuring was what I hoped EQ would be when I first started

playing. Unfortunately, the way Verant designed every dungeon in the game

precludes the classic dungeon crawl mode of fantasy RPGs. In every dungeon

you can go to, what you will see is lower level characters at the beginning

of the dungeon, intermediate levels in the middle, and higher level players

in the depths. Because of the way EQ is designed everyone is forced to camp

because if they tried to go further into the dungeon they are almost

certainly going to die. This issue has been brought up in numerous EQ

forums and debated until no end. With that said..

Do you guys think its possible for a game like EQ to have dungeons where

players can actually complete a dungeon via the dungeon crawl method? Here

is an example of how it could function:

1) All dungeons designed where a party of six all within a set range of

levels could defeat every mob within the dungeon.

2) Dungeons include traps, locked doors, puzzles, etc to make a rogue a

useful party member.

3) Spells like wizard lock and barrier type spells included to make the

party safe from wandering mobs and trains. You go into a room and get into

a fight. Caster could magically lock the door to keep wandering mobs out.

If you are fighting in a hallway, caster could cast a barrier type spell to

keep wandering mobs from joining in the fight or from following the party.

4) A mob in each location drops a key required to move on to next area of

dungeon. Party moves from location to location further down into dungeon.

Mobs don't respawn in an area until the party moves on to next area.

5) Treasure chests located in specific locations contain minor items and/or

money as a reward for killing the mobs in that location.

6) Boss mob at the end of the dungeon. Killing him produces a key that is

used to open up a special treasure chest. This chest has the rewards in it

for successfully completing the dungeon. Chest contains money and one magic

item for each member in the party. Each person only allowed to loot one

item from the chest to ensure everyone gets at least one magic item for

completing the dungeon. Items in chest random every time it is opened.

7) One way exit from the dungeon after killing the boss mob so you dont

have to go all the way back to the entrance.

8) Additional one way exits from dungeon at certain points along the way in

case someone has to leave party for whatever reason.

Probably a lot of things I have left out but this is the gist of it.

Implementing something like this would require a radical change in design

philosophy. I'm not even certain it would be possible in EQ but its

certainly a possibility in EQ2 assuming it comes out a few years down the

road. Key question is it possible for something like this to work in an

online game?

Without a doubt it will require some kind of control mechanism for parties

to enter the dungeon one at a time and spaced out from one another. Not

certain how this would work. Would probably require an online GM/Guide for

each dungeon. Don't think you could rely on player cooperation because

there will alwys be people arguing its their turn to go in. There would

also need to be a mechanism to ensure an orderly progression of parties

within the dungeon.

I'm out of time and this has gone on long enough so I'll end it here.

Apologize for the big-time off topic post but thought the topic was good

enough to throw it out there to get everyone's opinion. If this stirs up a

lot of discussion, do you guys think it would be worthwhile to consolidate

all the ideas/opinions everyone has and send them to Verant?

Galtin of E'ci

29 bard

(snipped)

> It's not impossible, but it becomes increasingly difficult.

> Not only will you need to camp to get the nice items, you'll

> find it more and more dangerous to sweep through dungeons

> because mob aggro radii work regardless of LOS. So you'll

> probably resort to camping a location if not a mob, and

> pulling to get stuff to kill.

>

(snipped)

> These are two major problems I see with the game. Too many

> players, and (paradoxically) too many mobs given the amount of

> space they're packed in (this was done to support the too many

> players). As a result, any deviation from camping results in

> a high probability of starting a train and/or pissing off

> other players.

>

> --

> John H. Kim

> kim@...

>

>

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