Well Abashi finally posted GZ's answers to my post. Here it is:
Author Topic: That Bard Thread: GZ's Answers...
Abashi
Station Member posted 01-06-2000 05:28 PM
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Hello all,
I took the original post with all the questions about bards and delivered
them directy to Geoffrey Zatkin, the Arch-Mage of Norrath. He was kind
enough to reply with a very well thought-out response, which is below in
it's entirety.
-Gordon
-----SNIP-----
>>>I've noticed that since retail release the Bard seems to be often
>>>forgotten when it comes to testing out patches. Things like the
>>>accidental Selo's nerf (caused by the mem hacking), the Consonant Chain
>>>debacle (Sow'ed creatures could not be chained), and the most recent
>>>levitate bug are very obvious to someone who plays a bard. All of these
>>>unintended nerfs could have been avoided with less then 5 mins of play
>>>testing these changes on a bard. So the question here is beyond compiling
>>>the code what kind of play testing of changes to the magic system takes
>>>place?
***GZ SAYS***
We have a solid internal testing department. The problem is, due to the
sheer scale of EQ, changes can slip through the cracks. We try to fix the
ones we miss as soon as we find/hear about them ´┐¢ but in a dynamic world,
strange things can happen.
You should see some of the bugs we catch that never make it live ´┐¢ or even
to test.
**************
>>>Kelin's Lucid Lullaby, I recently tested this song out vs. a level one
>>>human warrior. My Bard was level 37 at the time, using the Lute of the
>>>Gypsy Princess and I have charisma of 141. Every round I got the 'so and
>>>so head nods' message and every nearly every round the test subject was
>>>able to attack me (about 1 in 10 rounds he would not).
***GZ SAYS***
As most high level enchanters from Beta+ can tell you, there are two saving
throws that happen with an ´┐¢Enthrall´┐¢ style effect (such as Kelin´┐¢s Lucid
Lullaby) hits a creature. The first saving throw is against the target´┐¢s
Magic Resistance. The second saving throw only happens with high level
monsters ´┐¢ they get a secondary save based on their level. The reason for
this is that the Enthrall effect is very, very powerful ´┐¢ it allows a single
player to remove a creature from combat. This means that a party that could
handle two ´┐¢X´┐¢ level mobs might be able to take three, or even four of them
on if there is somebody around with the Enthrall effect.
Because of this (read game balance) higher level monsters have a harder time
being enthralled. At lower levels, a single player can take out a single
opponent of equal level. By mid levels this is much harder, and by high
levels it is virtually impossible. Allowing a single player to remove one or
more creatures from combat at high levels is sick level powerful ´┐¢ to the
point that we designed an entire classes specialty around doing it.
The second saving throw does not send a message the environment ´┐¢ and that
is something that is on our list of issues to address. There are, however,
no bugs with the Song.
**************
>>>Alenia's Disenchanting Melody, It does now work (9 months after release),
>>>but it strips good as well as bad spells from the party, making the song
>>>worse then useless. Is this the intended effect?
***GZ SAYS***
Alenia´┐¢s Disenchanting Melody works as it was intended to ´┐¢ it follows the
design that we had for it from the beginning. It is particularly useful?
Depends if your buddy is dying from a nasty DoT. People use Egg Shaped
Pumice on themselves all the time on the PvP servers. Is the Disenchanting
Melody as generally useful as Cancel Magic? Not really.
**************
>>>Angstlich's Appalling Screech, When used against very large creatures
>>>(Giants, Mammoths, Elephants, etc..) You have to be standing directly
>>>under or in some cases IN the NPC Avatar for the song to take effect.
>>>Otherwise the creature will glow, but no message or effect will be seen.
***GZ SAYS***
Heh. This is due to how the models are built ´┐¢ each has a ´┐¢center´┐¢ point,
which is what calculates where our servers think the monster actually is.
Really big creatures have center points farther away from you ´┐¢ hidden deep
within their polygonal body mass. I will bump the radius of the Screech up a
bit on the next spell patch and we can see if it works a bit better. Part of
the problem is that when I play my Bard, I know exactly how these things
work ´┐¢ and exactly where to stand. Sometimes knowing a bit too much about
something works against you.
**************
>>>Solon's Song of the Sirens, Often times when using this in a group
>>>situation the newly charmed pet will agro on a party member. This could
>>>cause a nasty way to get around the PvP switch as the pet is immune to PC
>>>attack. The pet needs to ignore any player characters or pets on its hate
>>>list when charmed. Also sometimes player pets (party & non-party member
>>>pets) will attack the Bard charming a NPC if the pet had been attacking
>>>the NPC.
***GZ SAYS***
I´┐¢ve had the pet agro on party members too ´┐¢ but it is usually because one
of my party members did something to the pet that it didn´┐¢t like just after
I charmed it ´┐¢ whacking it, for example. I usually have my pet commands
hotkeyed, and retarget to something I want my new pet to be attacking as
soon as I charm it.
Charm can be dangerous because once you take control of a monster, all of
its actions reflect on you. If you charm a monster that is fighting your
friend´┐¢s pet, and the pet hits the monster after you charm it, your charmed
monster will attack back. When that little fight gets broken up, there is a
possibility that your friend´┐¢s pet will come after you ´┐¢ you were, after
all, the controller of the thing it was just fighting. Charming around pets
can be done ´┐¢ you just need to be a little more careful.
**************
>>>Crission's Pixie Chase, This song seems to suffer from the same problem
>>>that Lullaby does, you get the message that the song has taken effect,
>>>but the target completely ignores the fact that it should be mesmerized
>>>(similarto the problem with Lucid Lullaby).
***GZ SAYS***
See above.
**************
>>>Fufil's Curtailing Chant and the other Chant songs, The percussion aspect
>>>of these songs is broken. Using a drum produces no additional effect
>>>(damage or resistance debuff).
***GZ SAYS***
Hmm ´┐¢ don´┐¢t use that one much. I´┐¢ll check. If so, we´┐¢ll get it fixed right
up.
**************
>>>Psalm of Cooling, The damage shield portion of this song does not seem to
>>>stack as logic would lead me to
believe. I can understand that it would weaken fire based damage shields,
but why would it weaken thistle based damage shields? I have not had a
chance to see if it stacks with the necro damage shield (which I believe is
cold based).
***GZ SAYS***
The Psalm´┐¢s Damage Shield will stack with the Druid and Ranger personal
Damage Shields ´┐¢ but they will not stack with other damage shields ´┐¢ in the
same way that no other Damage Shield stacks with another. You can not, for
example, stack Shield of Spikes and Shield of Fire.
**************
>>>Denon's Dissension, The instrument portion of this song seems to be
>>>broken. In tests I have run using a horn made no difference in mana drain
>>>in PvP combat.
***GZ SAYS***
This was a very tough song to balance. It takes away mana from other casters
´┐¢ the virtual lifeblood of 7 of EverQuest´┐¢s 14 classes. The amount taken
away is nice, but not great. Using a Horn increases the amount of mana
drained. Again, nice, but not great.
**************
>>>McVaxius Berserker Crescendo, I do not have this song yet, but other
>>>bards have informed me using a horn only increases the song's Strength
>>>effect, leaving the attack speed unchanged.
***GZ SAYS***
The way our song system works, if an instrument effects a song, it effects
the entire song. Without specifically hardcoding it, I couldn´┐¢t actually
make the Crescendo only effect the AC and STR but not the Attack Speed. As I
didn´┐¢t hardcode it, the Horn should increase the attack speed along with the
Strength and AC.
Speaking of which, unless my memory serves me wrong (which it could), you
*must* use a Horn to use this song.
As a completely side note, I saw on a certain website that this song
increases attack speed by 15 percent. It actually does considerably more
then that. I stand by an earlier comment that I still haven´┐¢t seen an
exceptional spell analysis program yet.
**************
>>>Verses of Victory, Many of the higher level bards I have spoken with are
>>>very upset by the recent downgrading of the attack speed component, is
>>>there any chance this can be restored to previous levels?
***GZ SAYS***
Nothing has changed on Verses of Victory since I put the song in. Somebody
is pulling your leg.
**************
>>>A while back GZ mentioned the meming time for bard songs would be
>>>decreased, but it still takes forever to mem songs (due to the lack of a
>>>mediate skill). Can this be looked into?
***GZ SAYS***
It is already on our list of things to add in.
**************
>>>Can a switch be set up (similar to the Fast Destroy option) to give
>>>players the choice of 1-Always dropping
items, 2-Confirm to drop, 3-No dropping of items. Bards I know have lost
everything from Bladed Thulian Claws to Mistmoore Battledrums due to the
"cracks" between hotkeys and swapping instruments/weapons.
***GZ SAYS***
Solid suggestion. See what I can do. No promises, but´┐¢
**************
>>>Every time an answer is given on when the missing bard songs will be
>>>added the answer is very soon. Any chance of a better eta?
***GZ SAYS***
We were initially gong to save them all for the expansion pack. I don´┐¢t know
if I can wait that long to get at least one of them in (I really want to see
how people use it), so maybe a bit earlier.
**************
>>>DoT change a while back lowered the damage of our DoT songs but didn't
>>>increase the duration, any chance that this could be balanced in some
>>>way?
***GZ SAYS***
Bards are affected by the Kiting changes just like everybody else. Bard´┐¢s
kiting creatures will get the disadvantage ´┐¢ in all other cases, the songs
should work just as before. Minimal combat movement will not lower the
damage on a DoT or Bard Song.
Geoffrey Zatkin
Arch-Mage of Norrath
Game Designer @ Verant Interactive
**************
Do not have time to make comments on all this so I will leave that to you
all :) I am less them happy with some of the answers :(
Rokenn Swiftsong - Karana server
EQ Bard Song Analysis
http://rgonzalez.net/EQSongs/
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