[Next Message in Time] | [Previous Message in Time] | [Next Message in Topic] | [Previous Message in Topic]

Message ID: 16506
Date: Tue Mar 21 17:04:24 GMT 2000
Author: Danny Craigg
Subject: Chains


"Hate to be the realist here, but it really doesn't matter in the long run
what you prefer. You will never find a high level group with a Ranger or
Druid using chains to keep runners from taking off. High level players know
the limitations of the songs and few seconds or less that chains sticks vs
the 2 to 3 minutes that snare sticks is practically impossible to argue
with. If you are in a high level group, there is no question as to whether
or not root goes away from the spell list or earth pets are replaced by fire
or water when there are snarers present. These things aren't talked of,
just assumed."

Never say never. If there is no shammie/enchanter around to do attack speed
debuff, or the enchanter is busy mezzing, I always Chain. The attack speed
debuff is just too beneficial, and I don't have slots for both binding and
chains (I can count on two hands the number of times I've dememmed chains in
a dungeon). Yes, most high level mages are smart enough to put away their
earth pet in dungeon groups, but one in particular (level 49) refused; that
was /after/ talking.

"Chains effect rarely lasts 3 ticks. If you get a single resist, especially
at higher levels, expect the MOB to start moving. When it comes time for
the MOB to start running, you better not be trying to weave chains with
another song either."

While Chains does break early, it's more the exception than the norm. On
mobs with a decent magic resistance, they seem to break early, but those are
also generally the same cases that I yell "can't chain" and let the druid do
their work. Also, I don't have much problem twisting in another song on
medium blues (usually an attack speed buff, to finish off quicker), and only
feel that I HAVE to chain-Chain on high blues or higher.

"In most high level dungeons your margin of error for a
runner is minimal. A fire imp running on an efreeti raid doesn't need to go
far to bring h3ll down on your raiding party and even in deep paw, a gnoll
escapes out of a room into the hallway and you are toast."

Unfortunately, with overcrowding being what it is, this isn't true anymore.
Heh, we've even let a runner go a couple times in Guk, HOPING he'd bring
back a train. In the efreeti party example, I've not been on one that
didn't have both a snarer (usually a druid) and an attack speed debuffer
(either an enchanter or a shaman). If both are present, and able to do the
slowdown and snare, then I cede to them. If either, in a normal hunting
group, is missing or unable to perform due to other responsibilities, I'm
chaining.

"If your chains is in effect and snare is cast, it won't stick. It takes a
druid or ranger long enough to recycle to be able to cast again that the
lost time could mean death as well. Worse even, I've seen bards (including
myself) press the wrong key and chain a MOB that is already snared... The
effect is to break snare and in a few seconds your MOB is suddenly on the
loose. Have one of these things happen once and I guarantee a good group
with make you stop using chains or will disband from you. You should go
talk to high level rangers or druids and ask them what they hate most about
bards... you'll find they all hate the bards that insist on chaining or are
convinced chains is better then snare."

I guess I'm spoiled in that I've grouped with a druid since level 1. It
didn't take us long to work out when I was chaining versus when he was
snaring. Our basic rule is, if more than one mob and I am doing crowd
control, he snares... otherwise, I chain, unless I yell for him to snare.
It's just a matter of communication, which is essential for any decent group
in any case. At level 50, I can honestly tell you I have never been told to
stop using chains, and have never been disbanded for doing so. I prefer
Chain/Fear in a dungeon setting simply because if I'm fearing in a group, it
generally means we're somewhat beat up, and I'm trying to mitigate damage
intake to get through the battle. Chain will halt movement FAR sooner than
snare will.

"At around level 25 is when the good bards start getting set apart from the
bad bards and one of the traits of a bad bard is to tell other classes how
to do their job or try to fulfill roles that are clearly already filled by
another class in a party. How many bards would pixie a MOB that an
enchanter mezzed? I keep pixie up, but not as a replacement for mez, but
instead as a supplement for when it fails. Same is true of chains. Later
in life you will find it is a supplement in case the snare fails."

Again, if you have both a snarer and an attack speed debuffer, Chains
generally is not needed. If you're lacking either, I always opt for Chains.

"Chains for pulling? Depends on the situation. There are a lot of places
where it works find but there are even more places where you will end up
pulling yourself a train. In most dungeons, the pathing is so screwed up
that if you don't baby-step the MOB, it will end up running through doors
and rooms that you don't want any part of. From my days in Sol A, we
learned quickly that you don't want to be SoW'ed when pulling and you WANT
that mob stuck on your back... If it ain't there trying to stick a dagger in
you, chances are it has chosen some funky back-ass route that will end up
bring half the world down on your party. Hope you have an evac'er then or
get ready for CR. The same is true of chains in these situations since you
NEED that mob glued to your back. Puller's nightmare are casters. The damn
mobs stop to cast on you and if you keep going chances are you aren't going
to like the path they chose to get to you when they go to catch up. In
order to pull a caster correctly, you need to stop at every corner and wait
for the caster to catch up to you and expect to take a hit every time they
get you in line of sight. You want an example? Try pulling the Bar with
chains, or the little room next to the King's room in Sol A. Heck, try
pulling the executioner's area in Paw with chains! You are better off
running up and smacking the mob or using a throwing dagger then you are
using chains."

To clarify:

Chains is not the ONLY song I use in pulling. It gives a great head-start
for Invis pulling in places like live side Guk. It also means melee mobs
won't be hitting you all the way back (you can baby step them without having
to let them wack on you). I prefered Charm (if low enough) or Pixie when
pulling casters. A mob generally won't start casting on you unless they can
see you (they will, however, finish a spell they started before you ducked
around the corner).

And, I have pulled to the King room with Chains, from all the areas around
it (as far as the high shammie room), and had no problem. It's a matter of
learning the mob's pathing, which is important for any puller.

"My brother's character is a druid and I can't even begin to describe how
much better snare/fear works then chains/fear on the big stuff. Especially
against larger MOBs where fear gets resisted. A lot of the time fear lasts
a single pulse."

Outdoors, I agree. I love Snare/Fear, because it relieves my load, and
there is no danger of training.

"You want a group friendly slowdown? Use binding. And no, it doesn't wake
up mezzed mobs. Don't use either if you have a shaman with togors who can
get it to stick."

Problem is, I only have 8 slots. I always keep Chains memmed for
emergencies. I do mem Binding, but it's situational. I can usually find a
better purpose for that song slot.

"Don't get me wrong, I love my bard and I love my songs, but I also know
when
to use them and when not too. I do everything I can to learn about the
other classes and their strengths and weaknesses so that I can make sure my
song line up augments a party instead of being a detriment."

And I believe everyone on this list does the same. My personal weakness is
with working with the necro lines, as there are only a few necros who
actually seem to consistently group.

Raiel Kendan
Bard of the 50th Song
Chairman of the "Chains is your Friend" Campaign ;)