I thought of a compromise that we used a couple of times in the past when we
couldn't agree on who should get into the lotto for a couple of items. We
setup 3 groups, primary, secondary, and tertiary. The primaries got to
random 21-120, the secondaries 1-100, the tertiaries 1-80. That weighted
the distribution but at least everyone felt like they were involved. A
tertiary won the first lotto strangely enough with a 37 roll.

Kit

-----Original Message-----
From: Kimes, Dean W. [mailto:dean_kimes@...]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:19 AM
To: 'eqbards@egroups.com'
Subject: RE: [eqbards] ugh, shutting bards out of lotto getting more
wides pread

I would imagine that the Haste effects jumping to 75% no matter which ones
you combine is a bug. As such eventually its liable to get fixed, probably
sooner rather than later since its a bug that benefits players. Once this
happens those lower end Haste items are not going to be as good for a bard
as the high end ones, any more than they are for melee types.

Kit

-----Original Message-----
From: kim@... [mailto:kim@...]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:18 AM
To: eqbards@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [eqbards] ugh, shutting bards out of lotto getting more
widespread

On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Jeff Heskett wrote:
>
> tonight i found out that no longer will bards in our guild be allowed on
> lotto for haste items, ever. (unless it's bard-only)
>
> 2 cloak of flames dropped off nagafen last time (i wasn't there or i
> would've known about this sooner) and bards were excluded in the lotto.
no
> more runed bolster belts will be going to bards either.

CoF and RBB I have no problems with being non-bard. We don't
benefit from the additional haste (unless you're chain/fearing
with weapons, and if you're doing that often enough that you
feel you need one of these items, what's the point of being in
a guild?). The extra AC and stats are nice, but in no way
make up for the additional haste (10%-15%) that another melee
class could gain from these two items.

> (fbss only likely
> one now, and only then if no other guild members that need it are in group
> according to guild rules)

This I would sort of agree with, sort of disagree with. With
a low-end haste item like a swirlspine belt or FBSS, a bard
could arguably gain *more* benefit than any other melee class.
Take the FBSS for example. It gives a 21% haste. For a L50
bard whose normal melee haste is 30% (Verses), the FBSS will
put them at 75% haste - a 35% improvement. For a sub-50 bard
whose normal max melee haste is 20% (Celerity), the FBSS gives
a 45% improvement. In the hands of any other melee class,
it's only a 21% improvement unless they're grouped with a bard
or enchanter or shaman (only then does it become a 75%
improvement). The difference is even more pronounced with a
swirlspine belt which from reports is a 15% haste. I dunno
how many bard/ench/sham are in your guild so I can't say how
compelling an argument that would be. But if the melee
classes rarely group with bards and enchanters, then the melee
argument favors the bard as most able to use a FBSS or
swirlspine.

Now, OTOH, a bard of the right level to get these items has a
*lot* of other tools available. My Belt of Concordance goes
mostly unused - a single Chant with my Selo's drum equals or
exceeds my average melee output with weapons and max haste.
The only time I use my weapons lately is when I feel like
diving into melee, or if the mob is pretty much immune to
magic, or if I'm prohibited from using the chants (TTs in
Fear seem to poof if they die from a DoT).

I would recommend to your guild leader that rather than
completely exclude bards from these items, to set up a
"scorecard." If a bard has helped (say) 5 other people in the
guild get a FBSS or swirlspine belt, then the next one is his.
That avoids the slippery slope problem where newer younger
guildmembers keep getting ahead of you in priority. I would
stay out of the CoF and RBB entirely, but if you really want
one, I'd suggest something like seeing 25-30 of them given to
guildmembers before you're allowed to roll for it.

> i need some pursuasive arguments to back me up. this is a guild of 150+
> different players. (tho minus a few bards lately)

Not many guilds on Karana with 150+ players. ;-)

> i tried a few arguments mentioned on this list, but the leaders of the
guild
> are pretty sure that since bards have haste songs, they don't need a haste
> item. (even tho they stack)

Their reasoning is wrong - if you follow it through like I did
above, bards get the *most* melee benefit from haste items of
any class. But for the other reasons I outlined above, I
pretty much have to side with them.

OTOH, they damn well better be willing to break their backs to
teleport a bard up to air if a Belt of Concordance drops and
there's no bard present.

--
John H. Kim
kim@...

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